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View Full Version : Possible that we held back on NE?


DBCooper
12-16-2012, 09:36 PM
I've been thinking about this and I don't know if its been mentioned in other conversations, but thought it deserved its own thread.

Does anyone else get the feeling that we have gone vanilla on our playcalling to save the good stuff for the playoffs?

It just seems that Kubiak and Wade are holding back. I'm not saying throwing the game, but just that they are keeping a lot of the playbook off the tapes.

Wolf
12-16-2012, 09:39 PM
With AJ covered one on one and we Didn't throw

No Bootlegs


My hope for the playoffs

Texn4life
12-16-2012, 09:40 PM
Absolutely not! We just got outplayed plain and simple. It happens though, but we definitely have to play much better in the playoffs. I like Forsett, but I think having Tate back and getting him more involved is the first step to getting the offense back on track.

Fixing the defense is more complex but eliminating the big plays is a good start.

EllisUnit
12-16-2012, 09:43 PM
Well i ca tell you by watching NE and SF tonight that we def didnt play our best game. And i like our odds in a rematch.

CloakNNNdagger
12-16-2012, 09:44 PM
I've been thinking about this and I don't know if its been mentioned in other conversations, but thought it deserved its own thread.

Does anyone else get the feeling that we have gone vanilla on our playcalling to save the good stuff for the playoffs?

It just seems that Kubiak and Wade are holding back. I'm not saying throwing the games, but just that they are keeping a lot of the playbook off the tapes.



That has also crossed my mind. But not winning that Pats game, as much as some were minimizing it, had definite potential consequences.

hradhak
12-16-2012, 09:46 PM
I did not expect SF to beatdown NE. I also didn't expect us to get blasted.
Texans had an off game, but I don't think they held back until the game was out of hand.

I like our chances at home. Hopefully SF holds on to win this game (ha 31-3, but it is still Tom Brady) and we have leeway to lose 1 game now and still retain HFA

PockyAF
12-16-2012, 09:47 PM
Nope. All the hype going into the game from our own players... no way we were holding back.

We were just making tons of mistakes and the holes were too big to dig out of, by the time the 2nd half came around.

Just like the way that the Pats mistakes are getting them blownout in their own field tonight.

Just like the way the 49ers mistakes got them blownout by the Giants earlier in the year.

I was one the guys that knew we would probably lose against the Pats, and preferred that we loss. How many 1 loss team ever won the superbowl in NFL history? We needed something late in the season to put a fire under our ass, heading into the post season.

Getting blownout by a GOOD team, don't mean ****.

DBCooper
12-16-2012, 09:47 PM
That has also crossed my mind. But not winning that Pats game, as much as some were minimizing it, had definite potential consequences.

And I totally agree with that. Our best chance, hell anyone's best chance to win a Super Bowl seems to be with home field advantage.

Get every edge you can.

Playoffs
12-16-2012, 09:50 PM
Sandbagged 'em.

DBCooper
12-16-2012, 09:55 PM
Sandbagged 'em.

Lol

Rope-a-dope

deucetx
12-16-2012, 10:03 PM
No. No offense, but it is kind of silly to think so. It hasn't just been the Patriots game. The Texans have not played a complete game since the Ravens. Either one side of the ball shows up or the other.

Plus there is no way a team of professionals is going to hold back on prime time at that. That would be a bit absurd. Let's be real, Kubiak rather rest his players that last week then have them play too much especially with the injuries already mounted. Winning would have made that a bit closer to happening then losing and then having to win games and push for a Pats lost.

We got beat. Simple as that. We haven't been playing good for a bit now but there is still time to change that direction and right the ship. Just because the 49ers are beating the crap out of them means little. The league is about matchups and the 49ers defense is a beast.

EVOLVIST
12-16-2012, 10:20 PM
Just like the way that the Pats mistakes are getting them blownout in their own field tonight.

Just like the way the 49ers mistakes got them blownout by the Giants earlier in the year.


Getting blownout by a GOOD team, don't mean sh!t.

Just like the 1991 Oilers spanked the Broncos in week 6 of the regular season, 42-14, but then lost to the Broncos in the divisional round of the playoffs by a score of 26-24.

It will be a different story the next time we play the Pats.

digitalswim
12-16-2012, 10:26 PM
I love these conspiracy theory threads/comments lol. I'm sure Kubiak / Phillips both have their super secret hidden weapon playbooks they have just been waiting to bust out on the sporting world in the playoffs. :doot:

While we are dreaming here, maybe Schaub really has a cannon for a arm instead of a wet noodle, and he has just been throwing "vanilla" to confuse all the opposing defenses.

thunderkyss
12-16-2012, 10:27 PM
I've been thinking about this and I don't know if its been mentioned in other conversations, but thought it deserved its own thread.

Does anyone else get the feeling that we have gone vanilla on our playcalling to save the good stuff for the playoffs?

It just seems that Kubiak and Wade are holding back. I'm not saying throwing the game, but just that they are keeping a lot of the playbook off the tapes.

I think we definitely held back, but not the same way you're thinking. Anytime you see that many plays get blown up, anytime we're making that many mistakes, Kubiak is going to call off the dogs. He's still going to try to score & win the game, but he's going to lean heavy on "conservative" plays.

If we're clicking, he lets it hang out.

deucetx
12-16-2012, 10:31 PM
I love these conspiracy theory threads/comments lol. I'm sure Kubiak / Phillips both have their super secret hidden weapon playbooks they have just been waiting to bust out on the sporting world in the playoffs. :doot:

While we are dreaming here, maybe Schaub really has a cannon for a arm instead of a wet noodle, and he has just been throwing "vanilla" to confuse all the opposing defenses.

LOL funny stuff, man. Gotta rep for that one.

DBCooper
12-16-2012, 10:47 PM
No. No offense, but it is kind of silly to think so. It hasn't just been the Patriots game. The Texans have not played a complete game since the Ravens. Either one side of the ball shows up or the other.

Plus there is no way a team of professionals is going to hold back on prime time at that. That would be a bit absurd. Let's be real, Kubiak rather rest his players that last week then have them play too much especially with the injuries already mounted. Winning would have made that a bit closer to happening then losing and then having to win games and push for a Pats lost.

We got beat. Simple as that. We haven't been playing good for a bit now but there is still time to change that direction and right the ship. Just because the 49ers are beating the crap out of them means little. The league is about matchups and the 49ers defense is a beast.

I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about Kubiak and Wade.

You really believe he gave his best game plan to beat the patriots?

I'm having my doubts.

EllisUnit
12-16-2012, 10:50 PM
All i know is NE just showed Kubiak why you dont pull your starters.

hradhak
12-16-2012, 11:09 PM
He didn't hold back, but the players didn't execute and then we got too far behind to play.

SF's gameplan was very similar to ours. Man coverage, run the ball on the outside. They threw deep like we did, but they executed. I think a couple plays go our way last week the game woulda been much closer.

TimeKiller
12-17-2012, 07:16 AM
You know this wouldn't be a thing unless it was Kubiak....because we all know he's damn likely to do something like that.

srrono
12-17-2012, 07:36 AM
NO, you play to win the game. I am hoping Wade learns from the weaknesses SF exposed last night. They mixed it up well a lot of man to man but I also noticed times when SF only had 2 guys rushing everyone else drop back into coverage.

Thorn
12-17-2012, 07:51 AM
Teams have up weeks and down weeks, it happens. I don't think we held back at NE, if anything, the Texans were ready but Brady and bunch just jumped on us quickly and we reacted like a deer in the headlights.

rmartin65
12-17-2012, 07:55 AM
I thought about it, but nope. HFA was/is still on the line, as was the AFC South championship. You dont throw a game, and then bank on winning the next 3. Especially with the threat of going to NE in January. Nobody wants to do that, especially a dome team.

thunderkyss
12-17-2012, 08:20 AM
NO, you play to win the game. I am hoping Wade learns from the weaknesses SF exposed last night. They mixed it up well a lot of man to man but I also noticed times when SF only had 2 guys rushing everyone else drop back into coverage.

Agreed, but you've got to know your personnel. Our LBs are worthless in zone. Brady will find the holes. They're better in man, at least their guy is covered for a second. Maybe a second & a half.

Nawzer
12-17-2012, 08:25 AM
Oh please! We got our asses handed to us plain and simple. We got out coached, out played, and out classed that night. I hope we can return the favor in the playoffs.

GP
12-17-2012, 08:29 AM
I thought about it, but nope. HFA was/is still on the line, as was the AFC South championship. You dont throw a game, and then bank on winning the next 3. Especially with the threat of going to NE in January. Nobody wants to do that, especially a dome team.

You're saying this about a coach who routinely mails it in and calls a draw play on 3rd and 10 from inside our own 10.

It's not likely that the coaches drew up really REALLY basic schemes for the Pats game, but it's possible.

The players looked weird to me. Like they knew the game wasn't really the big game that it had been built up to be. If you're a player and your coaches indicate, even in very subtle ways, that they're not playing all their wild cards to win that game vs. the Pats...you might not play your best. It could happen.

Kubiak is like that. He thinks he's a great thinker when it comes to strategy. I could easily see him taking that risk, banking on winning out and then pulling out all the stops when the Pats come to Reliant for the AFCC game.

Luv_ya_blue
12-17-2012, 08:32 AM
Yeah, we held back against NE for a potential AFC Championship matchup...

We must've also held back against Green Bay hoping for a potential Super Bowl matchup...

I guess it's a good thing that Denver sucked early in the season, otherwise we might've held back against them too...


:wadepalm:

rmartin65
12-17-2012, 08:35 AM
You're saying this about a coach who routinely mails it in and calls a draw play on 3rd and 10 from inside our own 10.

It's not likely that the coaches drew up really REALLY basic schemes for the Pats game, but it's possible.

The players looked weird to me. Like they knew the game wasn't really the big game that it had been built up to be. If you're a player and your coaches indicate, even in very subtle ways, that they're not playing all their wild cards to win that game vs. the Pats...you might not play your best. It could happen.

Kubiak is like that. He thinks he's a great thinker when it comes to strategy. I could easily see him taking that risk, banking on winning out and then pulling out all the stops when the Pats come to Reliant for the AFCC game.

When you put it that way... I can see it. If any coach would try this move, it would be Kubiak. I dont think it happened though. Too many things could go wrong with that plan, although now it does look like the "plan" would have worked. NE losing yesterday was huge, as they would now have to win out while we lose out.

thunderkyss
12-17-2012, 08:37 AM
The players looked weird to me. Like they knew the game wasn't really the big game that it had been built up to be. If you're a player and your coaches indicate, even in very subtle ways, that they're not playing all their wild cards to win that game vs. the Pats...you might not play your best. It could happen.

I agree with this. I know Kubiak & his coaches were telling them not to panic, to settle down, we're still in this.

I was watching the game with my brother in law & I told him the same thing. He said, "It's 21 nothing, you've got to start throwing it on every down."

I told him & I'm sure Kubiak told the players, we've got damn near three full quarters. We were never going to win a shootout with the Patriots & we definitely won't win one now.

We've got time to stick to our game plan, control the clock, score, & get a few defensive stops, we'll be back in it by the 4th qtr.

"Theoretically" that was our only chance to win. But, we couldn't convert on third downs, even 4th downs & we had plenty of opportunities to do so. A bad throw here, a dropped ball there & it's a different game. Keep in mind, the people dropping the ball was OD, Walter, Andre, & Arian, some of the best hands in the NFL.

But to summerize, I think they were over confident.

thunderkyss
12-17-2012, 08:42 AM
But, we couldn't convert on third downs, even 4th downs & we had plenty of opportunities to do so. A bad throw here, a dropped ball there & it's a different game. Keep in mind, the people dropping the ball was OD, Walter, Andre, & Arian, some of the best hands in the NFL.

But to summerize, I think they were over confident.

Like some of the other posters have mentioned, this is a big problem. We couldn't convert in the second half of the Titans game.

We couldn't convert against the Patriots.

Though we converted yesterday against the Colts, we didn't convert in the red zone.

That has to be fixed. Kubiak needs to (or at least should need to) see them convert in the red zone so badly that there should be no talk of resting week 17. Even if we score 68 points against the Vikings, if that's because the defense scored, or scores off big plays, He should still keep his offensive starters in the game & make them prove they can convert in the red zone.

The defensive guys named Antonio Smith, Jj Watt, & Kj deserve the break, but I don't think those guys will take it.

beerlover
12-17-2012, 09:10 AM
Bottom line is that Patriots and 49ers are the two best teams in the NFL as witnessed last night. Question is: can the Texans beat New England (if that is who they face?) in the AFC Championship game? Then 49ers in Super Bowl? Tall task, but that is why they play the game. Key points in game dictate strategy moving forward, so I can't help but feel Kubiak consciously made a decision to build towards perceived inevitable match-up against these same Patriots in the playoffs @ some point. Not throwing the game but to step back, keep players out of harms way & evaluate specific player match-ups.

Next meeting will most surely be in Reliant. I fully expect Kubiak to be less conservative & outside his comfort zone, in more of attacking mode, playing the odds with a chip on the players & coaches collective minds with much different outcome :)

Mr teX
12-17-2012, 09:18 AM
Not a chance...we got wrecked by a team clicking on all cylinders. it was just like us against Baltimore this year.

Double Barrel
12-17-2012, 10:06 AM
Oh please! We got our asses handed to us plain and simple. We got out coached, out played, and out classed that night. I hope we can return the favor in the playoffs.

This times 1000.

Playoffs
12-17-2012, 10:54 AM
Question is: can the Texans beat New England (if that is who they face?) in the AFC Championship game?They'll have to play the game of their lives. Coaches on both sides of the ball, too.

49ers dominated, but the Pats still had a chance. I'd like to have another shot at them.

76Texan
12-17-2012, 11:29 AM
They'll have to play the game of their lives. Coaches on both sides of the ball, too.

49ers dominated, but the Pats still had a chance. I'd like to have another shot at them.

We should take care of our business at least once in the next two weeks.

And it will be them that need to beat the Bronco's (most probably) to have a shot at us in our house.

:fans:

CloakNNNdagger
12-17-2012, 11:58 AM
He didn't hold back, but the players didn't execute and then we got too far behind to play.

SF's gameplan was very similar to ours. Man coverage, run the ball on the outside. They threw deep like we did, but they executed. I think a couple plays go our way last week the game woulda been much closer.

But we did not put our best on Welker........SF honed in on burying Welker on coverage.

Vinny
12-17-2012, 12:02 PM
yeah, we held back so we could be humiliated on global TV. Kubez master plan is to look incompetent so we can sneak up on them later.

DerekLee1
12-17-2012, 12:09 PM
We didn't hold back. Sure, coaches keep some plays up their sleeves for certain situations, but NE jumped on us lightning quick and we were on our heels the entire game. Our team is built to jump on a lead early, and hold it by pounding away. We're simply not a "score a dozen points a minute" type team. Kubiak's style is to run the ball and pound the other team. I have no problem with that, as most dynastic championship teams are built that way (NE being the notable exception). Once we were down 21-0, we were completely out of our element and in a hostile environment and miserable conditions. The 9ers last night, on the other hand, jumped out to an early lead and kept piling on. With better playcalling, the Pats would never have jumped back into that game. Some call Harbaugh "ballsy", but I call it moronic what he did in that game. Dropping back into zone against the Patriots with Brady down by a few scores? Throwing the ball 70% of the time with a 4-TD lead? Stupid.

Texn4life
12-17-2012, 12:28 PM
The thing to remember is that it doesn't matter what the results from that game were. The entire time I was watching, or not watching since I turned it off after a while I was thinking of the Jets Monday Night game with them a few years back. They beat the Jets worse than they beat us. Then the Jets went back there in the divisional round and knocked them off. We're capable of beating them, but our execution has to be much better than it was that night. Its the reason I didn't panic too much.

Dread-Head
12-17-2012, 12:30 PM
Lol

Rope-a-dope

I thought that at one point...if you show Belecheat your best you let him prepare...lull him into a false sense of security.

Trail.Blazr
12-17-2012, 12:35 PM
ABSOLUTELY! They surely held back on NE. :fingergun:

They wanted to sandbag NE into a trap game for the AFC Championship week.

Also, they wanted to come onto the TT Forum and read all the experts opinions on how bad they suck... oh, and my personal favorite, how one member would kick Schaub's ass if they ever ran into him. The poo slung on this forum that night was more pathetic than the actual game. Some of you should be ashamed to call yourselves fans. It's been a week now, and I've fought off all urge to say anything about the fans showing on this board that night. I am 100% confident that Patriot trolls were getting a bigger kick out of our game day thread than they were the actual game. Pathetic.
:soapbox:

LOL.

disclaimer: there were a good number of mature fans who could actually be discouraged about the game without being little bit#%es

Texans_Chick
12-17-2012, 12:44 PM
No.

I am not a tin foil hat person. But I do think that the Texans may have engaged in some operation shut down when they got in an early, stupid hole, saw the writing on the wall for the 3rd game on the road, against the Patriots in a game where the other team needed it more.

Why expend a ton of energy, risking Schaub injury in a game where there is little chance you can win it.

Check out the win probability numbers for that game from pretty early on (http://live.advancednflstats.com/weekly.php?gameid2=55711&week=14).

I started thinking this after the Monday presser with this particular answer about Arian Foster's touches that game:


(on RB Arian Foster being underworked and why he didn’t get the ball more) “Yeah, we were throwing it trying to get back in the game so it wouldn’t have mattered who was back there. There weren’t a lot of carries to go around for what we were trying to do. Obviously I reached a point, too, where I wanted to take another look at (RB) Ben (Tate) and see how he was performing after his second week back, which I thought was pretty good. It’s a combination of those things. (RB) Arian (Foster) is fine. If we’re playing in the type of game we want to play in, I think he carries the ball last night 25, 28 times, but it just didn’t happen that way.”

Want to take a look at a guy? That sounds like preseason behavior. Testing stuff out.

In other words, I think the way that the Texans would have managed this game would have been a bit different, especially later in the game had this been the win this game or go home game. But I don't think the Texans came into this game with the intent to sandbag.

Vinny
12-17-2012, 12:48 PM
No.

I am not a tin foil hat person. But I do think that the Texans may have engaged in some operation shut down when they got in an early, stupid hole, saw the writing on the wall for the 3rd game on the road, against the Patriots in a game where the other team needed it more.

Why expend a ton of energy, risking Schaub injury in a game where there is little chance you can win it.

Check out the win probability numbers for that game from pretty early on (http://live.advancednflstats.com/weekly.php?gameid2=55711&week=14).

I started thinking this after the Monday presser with this particular answer about Arian Foster's touches that game:



Want to take a look at a guy? That sounds like preseason behavior. Testing stuff out.

In other words, I think the way that the Texans would have managed this game would have been a bit different, especially later in the game had this been the win this game or go home game. But I don't think the Texans came into this game with the intent to sandbag.
The difference in the Texans and the Patriots when behind are stark if you are on point. It's a mentality. When down 31-3 (last night) the Pats didn't go into Barney the Purple Dinosaur mode and start rationalizing.

Texans_Chick
12-17-2012, 12:59 PM
The difference in the Texans and the Patriots when behind are stark. It's a mentality. When down 31-3 (last night) the Pats didn't go into Barney the Purple Dinosaur mode.

Maybe.

And you what? Bill Belichick wouldn't be seen as Mr Super Genius if when Brady was chucking the ball downfield in the Texans' win late and one of those multiple solid hits Watt put on him, knocked Brady's shoulder out or gave him a concussion or knee or something bad. It could have easily happened given how many QBs the Texans have taken out this year.

And it could have happened last night too to the Patriots given the defense they were facing. But the Patriots needed that win for home field because they lost dumb games early in the year.

As it is, Patriots fans were hating life when Welker got his ACL against the Texans late a few years ago.

You can call it Barney the Dinosaur all you want, but the Texans are playing with a hodge podge baby offensive line that would kill most quarterbacks/seasons. So that has to be in the analysis of play calling/game managing. The last time previous to last night's game a team came back on a team with that big a lead and still lost was the Texans against the Titans a few years ago at Reliant.

But the Texans are a different team with a different set of circumstances. And a transitioning offensive line. They have too much to lose playing aaah WTH ball. If Kubiak loses Schaub again (something that has happened multiple seasons), we are screwed.

I talk about this some in my most recent blog post about risk/reward and playcalling: Texans win again. You have permission to be happy. (http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/2012/12/texans-win-again-you-have-permission-to-be-happy/)

76Texan
12-17-2012, 01:03 PM
And in the end, the Pats got a morale victory.

Congrats to Brady and Belichick for saving grace and giving the Pats fans hope.

CloakNNNdagger
12-17-2012, 01:13 PM
The difference in the Texans and the Patriots when behind are stark if you are on point. It's a mentality. When down 31-3 (last night) the Pats didn't go into Barney the Purple Dinosaur mode and start rationalizing.


This^^^^^^^^^

By the end of the 1st Q, the Texans were given an 11% chance of coming back and taking the game........AdvancedNFLStats seems to answer the question as to the Texans' "clutch" ability.....and it ain't pretty.:mariopalm:

ChampionTexan
12-17-2012, 01:14 PM
Question is: can the Texans beat New England (if that is who they face?) in the AFC Championship game?
They'll have to play the game of their lives. Coaches on both sides of the ball, too.

49ers dominated, but the Pats still had a chance. I'd like to have another shot at them.

Assuming we host the AFC Championship game at Reliant, I'd much rather face the Broncos than the Pats (and no, there's nothing about the Pats game that even made me think they might be holding back).

To be brutally honest, I don't like our chances - even at home - if we have to play New England again. That's not to say we couldn't win, but I'm hoping we won't have to find out.

In spite of that, I do believe that while it resulted in an embarrassing blow-out loss on national TV, the fact that we've played them once will give us a better shot at beating them if that is the way things go.

And while I absolutely don't think it was planned this way, I do think there's a slight chance that we could be underestimated by the Pats. I believe this for the same reason I wondered whether the Patriots response to beating us might not have something to do with the 31-3 deficit they got themselves into. Ironically, after the game, the Patriots spent so much time pointing out that as opposed to the Texans, they approach all games as just another game, it may have taken away focus and or preparation from the Niners game, and by the time they woke up, it was too late. They may be experienced in important late season and playoff games, but they are not infallible.

djohn2oo8
12-17-2012, 01:16 PM
I love how people are saying absolutely not when Kubiak's whole M.O. is to not run up the score on fools.

76Texan
12-17-2012, 01:20 PM
This^^^^^^^^^

By the end of the 1st Q, the Texans were given an 11% chance of coming back and taking the game........AdvancedNFLStats seems to answer the question as to the Texans' "clutch" ability.....and it ain't pretty.:mariopalm:

Stats are what we make of it.
ANFLS charts the percentage within a game.
when all 3 phases aren't working, the numbers went down the chute.
Numbers can be used to "help" predict the long term.
They cannot be used to predict short term with much accuracy.

A question for you.
Will you be kind enough to see what they were saying during the first half of the Niners Pats game?

Texans_Chick
12-17-2012, 01:22 PM
This^^^^^^^^^

By the end of the 1st Q, the Texans were given an 11% chance of coming back and taking the game........AdvancedNFLStats seems to answer the question as to the Texans' "clutch" ability.....and it ain't pretty.:mariopalm:

Eh. Read my blog post. It is a good thing for most teams that their entire season isn't defined by one or two games. The Colts their Super Bowl year needed to beat a bad Texans team to get a bye. The Texans were the last team to beat them that year using David Carr, Ron Dayne, duct tape and chewing gum.

CloakNNNdagger
12-17-2012, 01:26 PM
Stats are what we make of it.
ANFLS charts the percentage within a game.
when all 3 phases aren't working, the numbers went down the chute.
Numbers can be used to "help" predict the long term.
They cannot be used to predict short term with much accuracy.

A question for you.
Will you be kind enough to see what they were saying during the first half of the Niners Pats game?

I'm not really understanding what you're asking, but they were always mentioning both that the Niners had lost opportunities despite their lead....but you don't ever rule out a Pats comeback??????

thunderkyss
12-17-2012, 01:27 PM
Maybe.

And you what? Bill Belichick wouldn't be seen as Mr Super Genius if when Brady....

D'oh..... stop right there. We don't have Brady, so this conversation is pointless. There are only so many elite QBs in the league & we don't have one of them. So what Bellichick & Brady, & their mentality is compared to ours is not even relevant. (not to mention they were getting blown out at home)

I do think there's a slight chance that we could be underestimated by the Pats.

Nope, forget that. Bellichick will have them ready, he's a HOF coach, been there done that. He knows better... uh..

Other than last night I mean. Every other game, he'll have his team ready. He's a HOF, 3x Super Bowl winning...

don't count the Arizona, Seattle, & Denver games either.

Other than those 4 games, Bellichick will have the ... forget it. I'm exhausted trying to make excuses for him.

Mr teX
12-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Eh. Read my blog post. It is a good thing for most teams that their entire season isn't defined by one or two games. The Colts their Super Bowl year needed to beat a bad Texans team to get a bye. The Texans were the last team to beat them that year using David Carr, Ron Dayne, duck tape and chewing gum.

Exactly. I remember when we got throttled by baltimore last year. & going into the playoff game everyone thought we didn't have a chance in large part b/c of what happened earlier that season but also b/c of Schaub's absence. & through all of that, we still managed to not only compete but had a chance to win. The major play that put us in a bad spot (JJ's muffed punt) wasn't even on the radar as to why we were going to lose.

Any given Sunday folks.

ChampionTexan
12-17-2012, 01:38 PM
D'oh..... stop right there. We don't have Brady, so this conversation is pointless. There are only so many elite QBs in the league & we don't have one of them. So what Bellichick & Brady, & their mentality is compared to ours is not even relevant. (not to mention they were getting blown out at home)



Nope, forget that. Bellichick will have them ready, he's a HOF coach, been there done that. He knows better... uh..

Other than last night I mean. Every other game, he'll have his team ready. He's a HOF, 3x Super Bowl winning...

don't count the Arizona, Seattle, & Denver games either.

Other than those 4 games, Bellichick will have the ... forget it. I'm exhausted trying to make excuses for him.

And don't forget that the last time the Pats had a playoff rematch with a team they'd blown out in the regular season, they lost (at home) 28-21 to a Jets team that they'd beaten 45-3 in week 13 of the regular season.

Texans_Chick
12-17-2012, 01:39 PM
Exactly. I remember when we got throttled by baltimore last year. & going into the playoff game everyone thought we didn't have a chance in large part b/c of what happened earlier that season but also b/c of Schaub's absence. & through all of that, we still managed to not only compete but had a chance to win. The major play that put us in a bad spot (JJ's muffed punt) wasn't even on the radar as to why we were going to lose.

Any given Sunday folks.

And it isn't just an any given Sunday thing too. Each game is its own thing. And each game has a ton of choices with risk and reward. And each team evolves over the course of a season while they learn/get injured. It is truly hard to manage risk/still win/avoid injuries. Because by the end of the season, a lot of times the winning team is the team that didn't get injured in the wrong spots.

76Texan
12-17-2012, 01:40 PM
I'm not really understanding what you're asking, but they were always mentioning both that the Niners had lost opportunities despite their lead....but you don't ever rule out a Pats comeback??????

If you look at the chart, there was a long period of time when it showed the Pats had close to zero chance of winning the game.

The same type of chart that you were looking at for the Pats-Texans game.

It only records the numbers and projects a probability.

While the chart showed that the Texans had only an 11% chance, it also showed that the Pats had even a lower chance to win the game.

76Texan
12-17-2012, 01:43 PM
D'oh..... stop right there. We don't have Brady, so this conversation is pointless. There are only so many elite QBs in the league & we don't have one of them. So what Bellichick & Brady, & their mentality is compared to ours is not even relevant. (not to mention they were getting blown out at home)



Nope, forget that. Bellichick will have them ready, he's a HOF coach, been there done that. He knows better... uh..

Other than last night I mean. Every other game, he'll have his team ready. He's a HOF, 3x Super Bowl winning...

don't count the Arizona, Seattle, & Denver games either.

Other than those 4 games, Bellichick will have the ... forget it. I'm exhausted trying to make excuses for him.

I see what you did there , LOl

Texans_Chick
12-17-2012, 01:43 PM
D'oh..... stop right there. We don't have Brady, so this conversation is pointless. There are only so many elite QBs in the league & we don't have one of them. So what Bellichick & Brady, & their mentality is compared to ours is not even relevant. (not to mention they were getting blown out at home)



Nope, forget that. Bellichick will have them ready, he's a HOF coach, been there done that. He knows better... uh..

Other than last night I mean. Every other game, he'll have his team ready. He's a HOF, 3x Super Bowl winning...

don't count the Arizona, Seattle, & Denver games either.

Other than those 4 games, Bellichick will have the ... forget it. I'm exhausted trying to make excuses for him.

The Texans have come back from deficits before. Quickly. They have an explosive offense when they open it up, elite QB or no.

And even when you have a very good team, it doesn't mean you are going to win the whole thing, see e.g. Patriots of recent years with a top QB and coach.

You can try to manage injury risk the best you can with the personnel you have and the game and season situation you are in. There's no easy calls, but it looks good when your players execute, not so good when they don't.

But Brady could have been hurt in recent games chucking the ball either with a big lead or trying to come back from a big deficit. I don't care how elite you are, if you are jacked hard after the throw, which happened multiple times in the last couple of weeks, you can get messed up.

thunderkyss
12-17-2012, 02:07 PM
And each team evolves over the course of a season while they learn/get injured.

That's what I love about the NFL. It's not just the teams that evolve, it's the players as well.

We've watched a couple of stars being born..... Andre, we saw him come into his own & become the player that he is today. We saw Demeco shoot up like a meteor, Brian Cushing, Arian Foster, Duane Brown..... & Jj Watt.

I remember all offseason, I was thinking we're in trouble if Reed & Watt don't follow up with a great sophomore season. I was worried about Barwin as well, because he came off season ending injury the year before.

What happened with Reed & Barwin could just as easily happened to Watt, but it didn't. He continues to get better every week.

& he's wearing a Texans Jersey, how cool is that?

Norg
12-17-2012, 02:09 PM
for our sake i hope we did LOL but why would we if we had won in NE and then beat INdy we would have locked #1 seed right now and the..... Minny and @ indy game would mean nothing

that would have been like a 5 week break LOL

thunderkyss
12-17-2012, 02:11 PM
The Texans have come back from deficits before. Quickly. They have an explosive offense when they open it up, elite QB or no.

And even when you have a very good team, it doesn't mean you are going to win the whole thing, see e.g. Patriots of recent years with a top QB and coach.


That's totally irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Right now, we're talking about how great the Patriots are. We'll have no good talk about the Texans here.

:kitten:

Wolf6151
12-17-2012, 02:17 PM
I think the notion that we held back against the Patriots is crazy. We just didn't play well or have good coaching in that game. We laid an egg.

Texans_Chick
12-17-2012, 02:26 PM
That's totally irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Right now, we're talking about how great the Patriots are. We'll have no good talk about the Texans here.

:kitten:

Heh.

Tom Brady is a magnificent man. With magnificent chin dimple. And magnificent hair. And manly Ugg boots.

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20110308/7b050c_030811brady.jpg

Trap_Star
12-17-2012, 02:30 PM
We held back like Ike did on Tina.

Exascor
12-17-2012, 02:30 PM
I think the notion that we held back against the Patriots is crazy. We just didn't play well or have good coaching in that game. We laid an egg.I agree. We sucked in every aspect against the Pats & Packers. That said, I did feel as the Pats game progressed (regressed????) that Kubiak pulled back. The whole "live to fight another day" thing seemed to fit.

Here's what I think Kubiak's 2012 regular season goals are:
1) Get into the playoffs
2) Keep Schaub & Johnson healthy
3) Win each game
4) ...

thunderkyss
12-17-2012, 02:38 PM
Here's what I think Kubiak's 2012 regular season goals are:
1) Get into the playoffs
2) Keep Schaub & Johnson healthy
3) Win each game
4) ...

That's the problem right there. Somewhere in there he should have put "play good football"

Exascor
12-17-2012, 02:43 PM
That's the problem right there. Somewhere in there he should have put "play good football"Damn him for not putting that on my make-believe list!!!! heh

Point should be: Schaub & Johnson's health is more important than any win after the playoffs are clinched. Just my opinion.

HJam72
12-17-2012, 02:50 PM
Heh.

Tom Brady is a magnificent man. With magnificent chin dimple. And magnificent hair. And manly Ugg boots.

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20110308/7b050c_030811brady.jpg

....and a woman's hair-style.

drs23
12-17-2012, 07:15 PM
yeah, we held back so we could be humiliated on global TV. Kubez master plan is to look incompetent so we can sneak up on them later.

Now you're catching on. Damn Vinny, pick it up. :kitten: :)

drs23
12-17-2012, 07:23 PM
No.

I am not a tin foil hat person.

Awe, C'mon Steph, let your hair down a little. Photo OP for your new avatar? :D :kitten:

Texan_Bill
12-17-2012, 07:28 PM
I remember someone called in on the radio and suggested this as well, and for lack of a better description, absurd notion. There is no way the Texans held back.... Simply put, the Texans got their a$$es$ whooped and their heads handed to them.

drs23
12-17-2012, 07:37 PM
Ironically, after the game, the Patriots spent so much time pointing out that as opposed to the Texans, they approach all games as just another game, it may have taken away focus and or preparation from the Niners game, and by the time they woke up, it was too late. They may be experienced in important late season and playoff games, but they are not infallible.

Champ, was this radio feed or something in print? I haven't read nor seen that before. Just curious. Gotta link or anything? That's a very intriguing comment.

drs23
12-17-2012, 07:57 PM
That's the problem right there. Somewhere in there he should have put "play good football"

Exactly on point there TK! I can't get over how many no football playin' sack -0- **** teams are in the HFA position that the Texans are in. :kitten:

MEGA SWATT
12-17-2012, 10:21 PM
yes:chef:

paycheck71
12-17-2012, 11:25 PM
The Texans have come back from deficits before. Quickly. They have an explosive offense when they open it up, elite QB or no.


I will preface it by saying that I usually agree with Kubiak in his conservative play calling. Play the odds.

As far as the explosive offense, I think there is a reason Kubes doesn't unleash it often, in fact, hardly ever, and it's the limitation of the QB. I think Schaub is a capable QB; I believe he can lead our team to a SB win, but he's not Tom Brady (as gay as he looks in that picture, not that there is anything wrong with it, he's one hell of a QB). I think Schaub would be much maligned like Tony Romo if he were left to throw 60 times every game.

P.S. I remember 2009 and the fact that Schaub led the league in passing yards.

Wolf6151
12-18-2012, 12:58 AM
Heh.

Tom Brady is a magnificent man. With magnificent chin dimple. And magnificent hair. And manly Ugg boots.

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20110308/7b050c_030811brady.jpg

TC, you need to clean the drool from your key board. :smooch:

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 01:33 AM
Champ, was this radio feed or something in print? I haven't read nor seen that before. Just curious. Gotta link or anything? That's a very intriguing comment.

I remember hearing a few things about it - here's one example:

“This game was just another game for us,” linebacker Rob Ninkovich said. “It wasn’t the biggest game of the year for us, so I think we just prepared like we were playing another game

“I know the team we play next week, it’s not the biggest game in their franchise’s history,” guard Logan Mankins said.

LINK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/11/patriots-happy-to-spoil-texans-biggest-game-in-franchise-history/)

I just feel like rubbing someone's nose in it (no matter how factually accurate it may be) just may indicate your dwelling on last week a bit as opposed to focusing on next week.

drs23
12-18-2012, 02:24 PM
i remember hearing a few things about it - here's one example:





link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/11/patriots-happy-to-spoil-texans-biggest-game-in-franchise-history/)

i just feel like rubbing someone's nose in it (no matter how factually accurate it may be) just may indicate your dwelling on last week a bit as opposed to focusing on next week.

ouch!

Perki-Perk
12-18-2012, 02:38 PM
I'm not talking about the players, I'm talking about Kubiak and Wade.

You really believe he gave his best game plan to beat the patriots?

I'm having my doubts.

I hear you DB, some people just don't want to believe we are that good, and having doubters is fine.

What I've seen since about Week 8 is not the same football team and it can't just be because of Cushing and various injuries. I think Kubiak is winning the one's we are supposed to, and against the more elite competition...meh.

We went spread offense on NE one time, and scored, then went back to running the ball. The horribly biased officiating on 3rd and longs, etc didn't help either. We just didn't look the same either way.

We've been vanilla since Buffalo in my opinion, with the exception of the Jags game where we opened up the offense to score more. We are a very dangerous team when we spread it out and I look to see that more in the playoffs, especially if we are going against someone with a high powered offense. We can do it too, we just don't do it as much, and I think Kubiak is more of a chess player.

If you were playing someone in a game that truly didn't mean anything as far as your standings go, but hyped it to be huge, what kind of a mind blow is that to the other team. So now an overly confident Brady comes in for the AFC Championship and an overconfident Rodgers goes to NO for the Super Bowl.

Check. Mate.

C Madd
12-18-2012, 02:39 PM
....and a woman's hair-style.

I can only imagine Brady is completely unaffected by people making fun of him as he goes home to his supermodel wife in his mansion. Despite that, let's all point and laugh at him on a water slide:

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2011/05/xlarge_brady.jpg
:texflag:

HJam72
12-18-2012, 02:41 PM
I can only imagine Brady is completely unaffected by people making fun of him as he goes home to his supermodel wife in his mansion. Despite that, let's all point and laugh at him on a water slide:

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2011/05/xlarge_brady.jpg
:texflag:

Good call. :)

Playoffs
12-18-2012, 04:38 PM
Watt was playing with one racquetball racquet (http://nesn.com/2012/12/tom-brady-working-against-racquetball-racquets-in-practice-to-prepare-for-j-j-watts-watt-swatt/) tied behind his back.

sandman
12-18-2012, 04:52 PM
From San Antonio, so I'm a Spurs fan. Pop is widely respected and considered the greatest coach over the last 15 years not named Phil.

And when the Spurs are getting it handed to them in a game and he senses that things simply are not going to magically click that night, he goes to his bench.

Yes, yes... the NBA has 82 games and the NFL only has 16. I get that. The point is that coaches can and do see the writing on the wall at times and act accordingly.

Fans went into this game wanting the Texans to win, but knowing that with even a loss, they were still in first place in the AFC and controlled their own destiny. So they lose a road game, in December, in Foxboro against Tom Terrific and the Hoodie who have been to FIVE Super Bowls. If there is any loss on the schedule that we were willing to accept before the season started, isn't this one it?

12-2 and in complete control of the playoff seeding. You'd think we were Giants fans or something...

Double Barrel
12-18-2012, 05:00 PM
Y'all are funny raggin' on Brady.

Most red blooded American males would dress in drag if this woman asked you to...

http://www.tomcorsonknowles.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Gisele-Bundchen.jpg

GP
12-18-2012, 05:11 PM
From San Antonio, so I'm a Spurs fan. Pop is widely respected and considered the greatest coach over the last 15 years not named Phil.

And when the Spurs are getting it handed to them in a game and he senses that things simply are not going to magically click that night, he goes to his bench.

Yes, yes... the NBA has 82 games and the NFL only has 16. I get that. The point is that coaches can and do see the writing on the wall at times and act accordingly.

Fans went into this game wanting the Texans to win, but knowing that with even a loss, they were still in first place in the AFC and controlled their own destiny. So they lose a road game, in December, in Foxboro against Tom Terrific and the Hoodie who have been to FIVE Super Bowls. If there is any loss on the schedule that we were willing to accept before the season started, isn't this one it?

12-2 and in complete control of the playoff seeding. You'd think we were Giants fans or something...

That's just almost saying that the Texans held back a little...very interesting.

If the fans shouldn't be worried by that loss, maybe the Texans also sort of glossed it over before the kickoff?

The more I dwell in this, the more I think we're playing chess. This team was flat out SMOKING teams out of the gate.

What we did to the Ravens, I think it can be done to anybody we play. But maybe Kubiak isn't sharing his best bottle of wine with Tier 5 house guests.

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 06:48 PM
That's just almost saying that the Texans held back a little...very interesting.


Well I don't think it's really the type of holding back that this thread title is referring to, but if you're using Sandman's post to define holding back - yeah, the first clue was taking a bunch of the starters (including Schaub) out of the game.

But Sandman does make an interesting point. Anybody who listens regularly or semi-regularly to N.D. Kalu and Greg Koch on 790 will know that Koch (former O-Lineman with the Packers) has maintained for awhile now that the "almost" 3.5 games we played in 11 days (Chicago, Jacksonville, and Detroit) may be something the Texans are still recovering from in terms of physical wear and tear. When you take the points Sandman brought up in terms of not needing the win, and coupling it with the physical and emotional toll a comeback like that could take, Kubiak may have just made a risk/reward decision that it wasn't worth it.

I will admit that if there is any worth to that theory, it will be interesting to see how things go for the Patriots from this point forward, because you know there was an immense amount of physical and emotional energy involved in turning a 31-3 game into a 31-31 game. One difference was it was a more important game to the Patriots than the Patriots game was to the Texans (in terms of playoff seedings - not the whole biggest game in franchise history thing).

IBleedTexans
12-18-2012, 07:55 PM
Y'all are funny raggin' on Brady.

Most red blooded American males would dress in drag if this woman asked you to...

http://www.tomcorsonknowles.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Gisele-Bundchen.jpg

Call me what you want but that's not really attractive to me . I like me a girl with some meat on them bones! Thick in all the right places, thats kinda ..... Not my type .

Rey
12-18-2012, 08:33 PM
I like women with some thickness to, but if you are single and she says come do me, what are you going to say? No?

Thick or not thick, that is a sexy woman.

thunderkyss
12-18-2012, 08:53 PM
I like women with some thickness to, but if you are single and she says come do me, what are you going to say? No?

Thick or not thick, that is a sexy woman.

I'm not going to dress in drag for it.

http://gallery.celebritypro.com/data/media/383/meagan-good-julyaug-2003-king-1.jpg

Now if that woman asked me to dress in drag & drink her bath water for a month...

Texan_Bill
12-18-2012, 08:59 PM
Y'all are funny raggin' on Brady.

Most red blooded American males would dress in drag if this woman asked you to...

http://www.tomcorsonknowles.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Gisele-Bundchen.jpg

Damnit DB... I'll be back in about 10-15 minutes!! :texanbill:

Rey
12-18-2012, 09:00 PM
I'm not going to dress in drag for it.

http://gallery.celebritypro.com/data/media/383/meagan-good-julyaug-2003-king-1.jpg


Now if that woman asked me to dress in drag & drink her bath water for a month...

Dude, that's been my pretend wife since I was a teenager.

The earlier parts of the botd thread are littered with me posting pictures of her.

But I wouldn't dress in drag for either one of them...lol...

thunderkyss
12-18-2012, 09:01 PM
Damnit DB... I'll be back in about 10-15 minutes!! :texanbill:

Why?


Forget where you put the blue pill?

sandman
12-19-2012, 01:55 PM
That's just almost saying that the Texans held back a little...very interesting.

If the fans shouldn't be worried by that loss, maybe the Texans also sort of glossed it over before the kickoff?

The more I dwell in this, the more I think we're playing chess. This team was flat out SMOKING teams out of the gate.

What we did to the Ravens, I think it can be done to anybody we play. But maybe Kubiak isn't sharing his best bottle of wine with Tier 5 house guests.

Well, I don't think they glossed it over. I think they had every intention of trying to win that game. BUT, when the wheels fell of early, they could have taken a good hard look around and decided that the risks they would have to take to get themselves improbably back into a game that they didn't need to win to still control their own destiny were simply not worth it at that point.

What would our reactions be if they came out of the game with some serious injuries because they threw caution to the wind in their play calling.

Losing Matt last year when the expectations were winning season and just make the playoffs is one thing, and within TJ's abilities. Losing Matt in a game that wasn't needed when the Super Bowl are the expectations? We would be fools to think TJ has the ability to step into that.

HJam72
12-20-2012, 07:37 AM
No, they didn't hold back--not from the start, anyway.

They just got their butts kicked.

It happens.

Can we get this thread title off the front page now????? :toropalm:

Cerberus
12-20-2012, 08:30 AM
I've been thinking about this and I don't know if its been mentioned in other conversations, but thought it deserved its own thread.

Does anyone else get the feeling that we have gone vanilla on our playcalling to save the good stuff for the playoffs?

It just seems that Kubiak and Wade are holding back. I'm not saying throwing the game, but just that they are keeping a lot of the playbook off the tapes.

You mean like this:

Wade may not have wanted to show his full defense to the Patriots and Tom Brady since they are likely to meet again real soon. Not saying that Wade and the Texans weren't trying, just that Wade may not have been pulling out all the stops. . . . http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2076216&postcount=1064

Of course, what I stated also could hold true for Kubiak and the offense as well.

GP
12-20-2012, 08:41 AM
It would be a "Top Down" strategy.

Kubiak, as HC, would most likely bring Wade Phillips into the mix, if Kubiak wanted to maybe go pretty basic/vanilla vs. the Patriots.

He'd want to get Wade aboard that sort of strategy because Kubiak would never want to do that as the leader of our offense....only to have Wade out there getting his guys to bust their asses while he was unaware that Kubiak was mailing it in.

Therefore, the idea must also be communicated (maybe in a veiled sense) to the players, because you wouldn't want your players out there busting their asses and then figuring out (on their own, after some time had passed) that the coaches had never put them in position to "really" have a real shot at winning.

Therefore, the theory of us holding back on N.E. is not likely....it's possible, but it would be a really stealthy thing to pull off. It would require ultimate secrecy, and ya' know what? This team has been known for secrecy and not revealing much unless they really want to. I think that it would be dangerous to do that sort of thing because as we've seen from Stern in the NBA...a league's commissioner doesn't like the concept of franchises holding out their best stuff when paying customers and TV viewers are expecting the best.

So once more: IF Kubiak ordered a sandbag act on the Patriots, he would have to ensure that most of the key coaches and players knew, he'd have to assume that those who DIDN'T know would eventually figure it out or be told by someone who did know beforehand, and then he'd face disciplinary action if it ever leaked. That's a scandal that Bob McNair would NEVER want to see on all the tv shows and on the Internet media sites.

Kubiak doesn't strike me as THAT big of a risk taker. Right?