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Dutchrudder
12-14-2012, 06:19 PM
Corrosion asked me to make a thread about the Texans 2013 offseason, because the info is good for making mock drafts. So I thought I could put together a little something to help you all out when making mocks and have an easy reference for FAQs like compensatory picks, UFAs/RFAs, and some cap space guesses (yes that's what they all are).

I made an Excel spreadsheet for this and took some screenshots to make it easy to read and display. The forum software doesn't do well with Excel copy/paste data, so if changes need to be made, it might be later on in the thread. Anyways, feel free to poke holes in my arguments or offer feedback on whatever. I'm putting it in this forum specifically for Mock Draft help.

Texans 2013 Free Agents:
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2013FA.jpg

We have 21 total UFAs, 13 on defense, 6 on offense, and 2 special teams. As you can see, we have several starters that are not under contract next year. By my own estimations, I would list 7 of these 21 as key contributors to this season: Quin S, Barwin OLB, Dobbins ILB, McCain CB, Cody DT, Caldwell OG, Casey TE (5 defense, 2 offense). When constructing mock drafts, I think it's important to see where we are losing depth, and its clear that the defense will be losing quite a bit if these players aren't retained. Before anyone says it, I don't consider either kicker to be a key contributor because they are easily replaced.

I included their salary and cap hits for this year to show how much they cost this year, but at the moment I don't have an exact estimate of capspace for next year. At this point, I think we will have 8-10 million free after the new Brown and Schaub contracts, but I feel that is slightly optomistic. JJo also restructured this year and pushed 1.3 million into each of the next three years. I think 8 million is a solid cap space projection, assuming nothing else changes. Remember though, about 3-5 million of that will need to be retained for signing draft picks, depending on how many high picks we have. (trade ups cost more than just the draft picks and players used, you guarantee a lot more money to high picks)

Cap Casualties:

So given that we will likely be up against the cap once again, I have identified the most likely candidates to be cut or restructured. Here are the costs and savings for each.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2013CapCasualties_zps2574ffbb.jpg

The Guaranteed Pay for each of them is signing bonuses plus restructured money. Antonio's number is a bit higher than other sites may show because he restructured in 2011 to help us sign JJo and Manning. Wade doesn't have much left on his deal, but cutting him actually saves more money than Antonio. As far as I know, none of Walter's money is guaranteed, if anyone knows otherwise please post it.

Clearly something has to be done about Walter and Antonio. Antonio is not worth 9.8 million nor the 8.5 million that he was originally scheduled to make. Walter isn't worth 4.5 million and should take another paycut or head to Baltimore. The bottom line is that we could save 13.5 million by simply cutting these guys. That could make our cap space go up to about 20 million, which would enable us to sign retain our own free agents and possibly sign a new impact player or two.

Compensatory Picks:

In addition to the 7 picks that the Texans have in the 2013 draft, they will have 4 more compensatory picks coming their way. The Texans lost 4 qualifying free agents and signed zero. Yes, zero qualifying free agents signed.

Well, I have been looking into comp picks a bit more since the topic came up again. I have to amend my initial projection to a 3,5,6,6. Here's where I'm at:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2013CompensatoryPicks-1_zps7fcd99d0.jpg


Mario is a lock for a 3rd.

I believe Brisiel will be worth a 5th due to his 16 starts, 4 million a year AAV (Contract's Average Annual Value) and because he played the majority of the Raiders snaps this year.

I'm dropping Dreesen down to a 6th because his contract value is too low, and the Broncos didn't go as far in the playoffs as I thought they would. He had average TE stats (41 rec, 356 yards, 5 TDs), and played about 75% of their snaps. Had the Broncos made the AFCC or Super Bowl, I believe he would have moved up a round.

I'm putting Jason Allen as a 6th, but he's a wild card. His contract would normally be worth a 5th on AAV alone, but his snaps played is so low, that I think he will be dinged a round or two. I originally put him as a 7th because he started zero games, and only played defense for 3 snaps, the rest was special teams. I don't know how this will work out, he could be anywhere from a 5th to a 7th, but I'll take the conservative route and say 6th.

I found some info on compensatory picks last year with AAV ranges for the picks and this was the matrix for 2012. These ranges can change, but we could have anywhere from a 3, 5,5,6 to a 3,6,7,7.

3 - $6.5/$7 million and greater
4 - $5 to $6.5/$7 million
5 - $4 to $5 million
6 - $2.5/2.75 to $4 million
7 - $1 to $2.5/2.75 million

Compensatory Pick Requirements:


Players must be signed before June 1st in order to affect comp picks
Signing bonuses can be up to 65k without effecting the comp picks.
Players over 10 years accrued no longer count against comp picks.
Players must sign for more than their veteran minimum to nullify other comp picks.

2012 salaries are as follows:
Shayne Graham: 2012: $925,000
Bradie James: 2012: $825,000
Donnie Jones: 2012: $825,000
Alan Ball: 6/2/2012: $700,000 (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Justin Forsett: 6/2/2012: Signed a one-year contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Ryan Harris: 9/1/2012: Signed a one-year, $700,000 contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)

2012 NFL vet minimum salaries
Rookie - $390,000
1 year - $465,000
2 year - $540,000
3 year - $615,000
4-6 year - $700,000
7-9 year - $825,000
10+ year - $925,000

Long story short, nobody the Texans signed qualified as a free agent.


Practice Squad 2012:

Another way to backfill depth is to call up practice squad players. Several of these guys have been with the team for a while and may be ready to step up to the 53 man roster. Currently we have these guys:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2012PSquad.jpg

I think Pleasant may take Demps spot on the roster next year. I would love to see one of the TEs develop into a solid blocker and save us a late round draft pick. If Mondek could develop more, maybe he could become our swing tackle and we could let Newton stay at RT. Lots of options to consider.

rmartin65
12-14-2012, 06:23 PM
Sorry rmartin, I can't insert a new post to this thread, so I'm commandeering your spot on the replies. ArlingtonTexan, you are next... :)
- Dutch

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/TexansCapProjections_zps8e91ca41.jpg


2012 Cap:

So the first thing that might jump out at you is the 2012 cap number being 121,905,328. You might be thinking, "Dutch, you blithering son of a biatch! How can the Texans have a higher cap number than the actual cap of 120.6 million?"

Well, in my analysis, I could not find any hard numbers on the cost of some of our IR'd vets: Kenyaron Fox, Rashon Harris, Tim Jamison, Rashad Butler and even Randy Bullock. I suspect that at least a couple of these are split contracts, but I couldn't find anything conclusive, so I'm counting them at the value that they would have otherwise been. If we were to assume a 50% split contract on each of them, their cap hits would collectively be reduced by 1,967,500, which would put the Texans just a hair under 120 million. It's also worth mentioning the fact that our current active roster is only costing the team 97.8 million. That's pretty cheap given the results, but it means we are drafting well and keeping costs down.

The next thing that might jump out at you is the 2013 cap projection of $109,206,020, or in other words, 11.394 million in cap space (assuming 120.6m cap). You might be thinking to yourself, "Dutch this is great news, I take back all the awful things I said about you and your mother!" However, there is a catch. This projection only includes the 41 contracts that will count against the cap in 2013, so there are still 12 open spaces to fill on the 53 man roster, which will use at least 405k each. Here is the current minimum salary matrix:
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/nflvetminimum_zpsbe1bc261.jpg

As you can see, everything is escalating 15k across the board (cap hit is 555k for vet minimum players). I think 500k per player is a reasonable estimate for these 12 spots, so that would be up to 6 million more taken away from the cap. That gives us a projected real cap value of 115.2 million, or about 5.4 million in extra free space, depending on how you want to look at it. You might be thinking to yourself, "Dammit Dutch, can't you let me bathe in the warmth of imagining the Texan's signing Mike Wallace and Dwight Freeney for just one minute before you come in and defenestrate my dreams!"

No, sorry, I cannot do that =P

But fear not! As mentioned in the OP, there is 13.5 million in cap cuts available to the team if needed, so it's not nearly as dire of a situation as it appears. Yes, we will be squeezed a bit next year, but we will not be in as bad of a situation as many other teams who do not have this flexibility.

Dead Money:

One of the toughest things to figure out in cap projections is dead money, the money left over from cutting players, trading them or if they retire. This is my current list of dead money projections:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2012DeadMoney_zpse99da73f.jpg

I pulled a good deal of this from Sporttrac, and I searched for what I could on the big names. You might be thinking, "Dutch, you inglorious halfwit nincompoop! How on earth does Demeco cost 9 million after we traded him??" Well, I'll let Alan Burge explain it:

Ryans' dead money estimates were all over the place Tuesday evening. Adam Caplan and I were going back and forth on the subject on Twitter for a good half-hour and I finally tapped out when we got to the point that the Texans would lose cap space on the deal. Hopefully that's not true but Ryan's $7.5 million signing bonus in 2010 prorates at $1.25 million per year - and with 4 years remaining on his deal, that accelerates $5 million. Plus, Ryans had another restructure in 2011 that reduced his base pay by about $5 million. When you prorate that (on top of the original proration) you get $2.25 per year over the remaining four years or $9 million in dead money. Ryans' cap hit was somewhere around $8 million this year. You do the math.

http://www.examiner.com/article/texans-continue-salary-purge-trade-ryans

It appears that this is the case, but the good news is that it's a one-time cost. After this year, we will have cleared over 16 million in dead weight from the books and will use it to pay guys like Duane Brown and Matt Schaub into the future.

Other guys that may not cost as much as listed are Eric Winston and Jacoby Jones. We know that both had a few years left on their deals when they were cut, but I'm not certain that we know how the money will be spread out. Winston had 2 million left on his deal, but he could have been designated a June 1st cut (he was cut in May), and that would split his 2m between 2012 and 2013.

Personally, I'm not sold on the idea that Jacoby only had 1m guaranteed left on his deal. Another site mentions he will cost the Texans 2.5 million after his cut:
The Texans parted ways with WR/PR Jacoby Jones, releasing him on Tuesday. The move will cost the team $2.5 million.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-rapidreports/18924788
So it could be that he cost 1.25 million this year and next, or it could be wrong. I just don't have confirmation either way, so I'll roll with 1 million for now.

Practice Squad:

So, this often gets overlooked, but the Practice Squad guys can actually cost a bit. This year, it costs $5,700 per player, per week (17 regular season), plus each playoff week, and you can have up to 8 of these guys active at any time. Our current roster with cap hit projections:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2012PracticeSquad_zps624f638e.jpg

You may look at this and say yourself, "Dutch, you are as sharp as a bowling ball! There are 9 people on your list and the costs are going down from year to year!" Well, given the salary structure above, I'm projecting 2 weeks of playoff pay, and that will hopefully go up. That's why the 2012 figure is higher than 13/14. Also, Phillip Supernaw was placed on the Psquad Injured list in October, so I'm projecting 11 weeks of pay for him this year. That gives us a total of 929,100 on the season, which is subject to change. These are just baseline minimum projections though, teams are allowed to pay more than the minimum to players on the practice squad, but most don't. I have no sources showing that the Texans paid more than minimum for any of these players, but if anyone else sees something please post it!

Edit: I now realize I still have Brice McCain on the active roster and not in the IR section. I'm not going to redo all those pics just for that, so whatever, but feel free to consider 1.333 million in the IR list instead of the active roster. This doesn't change the bottom line, unless he has something in his contract about going on IR.


-------------------------

rmartin65:
Holy smokes, this is awesome! I must spread the reps, but I will get you for this one.

I especially like your labeling of Fat Albert :spit:

ArlingtonTexan
12-14-2012, 06:45 PM
:includeme:

Insideop
12-14-2012, 06:55 PM
Holy smokes, this is awesome! I must spread the reps, but I will get you for this one.

I especially like your labeling of Fat Albert :spit:

I have to agree with martin65, this is an awesome post with a lot of info to digest! Rep to you Dutch!

As for the label of "Fat Albert," that was pretty funny! :ahhaha:

Wolf6151
12-14-2012, 07:05 PM
Holy smokes, this is awesome! I must spread the reps, but I will get you for this one.

I especially like your labeling of Fat Albert :spit:


I got you covered. Great job DR, this will take time to digest all the info. here.

76Texan
12-14-2012, 07:05 PM
Good job. Dutch

Dutchrudder
12-14-2012, 07:15 PM
Thanks guys, happy to help contribute to the cause :D

I added some more info to the comp pick requirements, since I'm sure that will be discussed. I know a lot of people have been tossing out projections for the picks, but I'm certain we will have 4 picks coming our way (which is the max per team). We may end up with a 6th instead of a 5th for one of those, but I'm not sure which will change. The play-time factor is difficult to research and quantify, and I didn't really want to get too deep into that. A pair of 5ths would be nice though, they could net us our punter and fullback of the future.

Side note, I honestly want to go lower on projected cap space for next year and make it closer to 6 million, but I haven't done all the math to figure that out yet. Also, there are three contracts that I can't quantify, Butler, Fox and Dashon Harris supposedly had split contracts and could move the number by up to 2.2 million lower.

Insideop
12-14-2012, 07:29 PM
Regarding the "cap casualties" that would be tough to lose all 3 of them. I think if they only cut 1 it may be Wade Smith. Kubes really likes Walter's game, especially his blocking, and Antonio Smith is probably too valuable and hard to replace at this time. All 3 are over 30 now with Wade Smith and KW each being 31, so they definitely need to be grooming their replacements. To me, I think it would be easier to groom an OG rather than a DE or WR, but it does seem like Crick is coming along OK. Was hoping to see more out of the young WR's by this time although they seem to be playing more. Not sure about Wade's replacement (Brooks?) and how he's coming along.

aussie_texan
12-14-2012, 09:41 PM
msr that was epic !!!!!!!

aussie_texan
12-14-2012, 09:42 PM
i dont think we will get anything for jason allen. i remember a year or 2 ago we were hoping for a certain comp pick but got nothing. i agree on the others though

Dutchrudder
12-14-2012, 09:52 PM
i dont think we will get anything for jason allen. i remember a year or 2 ago we were hoping for a certain comp pick but got nothing. i agree on the others though

Doesn't matter, his deal qualifies the reqs. For comparison, the Packers got a 4th for Kampman, who barely played half a season. Lots of these guys suck, but still warrant a pick.

aussie_texan
12-14-2012, 10:23 PM
it would be good if the NFL could release the formula for the comp picks. make life for us armchair GMs so much easier

Insideop
12-15-2012, 03:48 AM
Thanks guys, happy to help contribute to the cause :D

I added some more info to the comp pick requirements, since I'm sure that will be discussed. I know a lot of people have been tossing out projections for the picks, but I'm certain we will have 4 picks coming our way (which is the max per team). We may end up with a 6th instead of a 5th for one of those, but I'm not sure which will change. The play-time factor is difficult to research and quantify, and I didn't really want to get too deep into that. A pair of 5ths would be nice though, they could net us our punter and fullback of the future.

Side note, I honestly want to go lower on projected cap space for next year and make it closer to 6 million, but I haven't done all the math to figure that out yet. Also, there are three contracts that I can't quantify, Butler, Fox and Dashon Harris supposedly had split contracts and could move the number by up to 2.2 million lower.

I still don't see this. A lot of people on here think Jones is bad and needs to be replaced. The coaches love him though and he has been very good at pinning guys inside the 20. I don't think he's going anywhere. Now the Kicker, that's another story. Just hope Bullock is ready next season and blows Graham off the field!

badboy
12-15-2012, 08:31 AM
Thanks man very helpful Need to find a way to save to my favorite without entire thread. Hopefully I can cut and past. Did not know that A. Smith's $6m in '13 was guaranteed? I could see them bonusing that out and lowering the hit.

beerlover
12-15-2012, 10:24 AM
You know guys if you must spread rep then you can always rate thread. Just gave Dutch a Five star, for his excellent work :specnatz:

I don't know its tough to cut players or let them walk via free agency like they did last season. Was this a trend or anomaly?

Tough part for those of us who enjoy the mock draft process is that decisions will be faced & made before the draft that can influence (don't buy into BPA because need wins out end of day) construction of their draft board. Money is obviously a huge factor in this as well as teams scramble to work within salary constraints.

To replace Cody Texans would need to spend a first round pick on a NT.
To replace Antonio Smith Texans would have to spend 1st/2nd on a 5-tech DE.
To replace Wade Smith Texans would have to spend 2nd/3rd on a OG.

OR

They could trade for younger versions still under less costly contracts either under utilized in a bad situation or stuck behind entrenched starter like Myers was in Denver. Also via free agency, with another Wade Smith who I recall was in Kansas City. Texans paid to get Antonio, he has produced so they will continue to pay him most likely.

Texans love Kevin Walter. He is the company man, already restructured contract once will probably have to do it again.

Not to hijack your thread Dutch but based on crop of prospects, team need & cap ramifications I think Texans will be almost forced to look @ taking a replacement for Cody. A big, athletic run stopping DT with work ethic & smarts to actually elevate nose position. John Jenkins, Georgia.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 10:29 AM
You know guys if you must spread rep then you can always rate thread. Just gave Dutch a Five star, for his excellent work :specnatz:

I don't know its tough to cut players or let them walk via free agency like they did last season. Was this a trend or anomaly?

Tough part for those of us who enjoy the mock draft process is that decisions will be faced & made before the draft that can influence (don't buy into BPA because need wins out end of day) construction of their draft board. Money is obviously a huge factor in this as well as teams scramble to work within salary constraints.

To replace Cody Texans would need to spend a first round pick on a NT.
To replace Antonio Smith Texans would have to spend 1st/2nd on a 5-tech DE.
To replace Wade Smith Texans would have to spend 2nd/3rd on a OG.

OR

They could trade for younger versions still under less costly contracts either under utilized in a bad situation or stuck behind entrenched starter like Myers was in Denver. Also via free agency, with another Wade Smith who I recall was in Kansas City. Texans paid to get Antonio, he has produced so they will continue to pay him most likely.

Texans love Kevin Walter. He is the company man, already restructured contract once will probably have to do it again.

Not to hijack your thread Dutch but based on crop of prospects, team need & cap ramifications I think Texans will be almost forced to look @ taking a replacement for Cody. A big, athletic run stopping DT with work ethic & smarts to actually elevate nose position. John Jenkins, Georgia.I don't how to rate a thread. Can I just give him a neg rep just to be different? J/k

Actually, I think I just saw something at the bottom, let me go try it now.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 10:31 AM
OK, 5 star it is :)

Thanks for the tip, BL

Bubbajwp
12-15-2012, 11:35 AM
Can we sticky this thread during the offseason?

Dutchrudder
12-15-2012, 12:50 PM
I still don't see this. A lot of people on here think Jones is bad and needs to be replaced. The coaches love him though and he has been very good at pinning guys inside the 20. I don't think he's going anywhere. Now the Kicker, that's another story. Just hope Bullock is ready next season and blows Graham off the field!

It's just my opinion, I don't mean to put down Donnie Jones as a player, but I think he's just average as a punter. If the team wants to keep him on the 53 man roster next year, I won't complain, but I think those late picks are perfect for getting a cheap punter. Could save over 100k a year in capspace by getting a punter with a 5th round comp pick, rather than signing a vet like Jones. It's certainly not high on my priority list right now.

Dutchrudder
12-15-2012, 12:53 PM
Thanks man very helpful Need to find a way to save to my favorite without entire thread. Hopefully I can cut and past. Did not know that A. Smith's $6m in '13 was guaranteed? I could see them bonusing that out and lowering the hit.

Sorry about that, I screwed up with my original Cap Casualties sheet and made the guaranteed money look like a portion of salary. I meant to do two different things with the columns, and they just merged into one wrong one :( Now that I'm sober, I fixed it :D I updated the OP to reflect the new numbers of cap savings and hits. Dead money is also included, but the main thing is the savings is 13.5 million for cutting all three of them. Granted, that is the last thing I want the team to do, but having 20 million in free cap space next year would be incredible.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2013CapCasualties_zps2574ffbb.jpg

I think Antonio Smith is a prime candidate for restructuring. He's 31 now, and could add 2 years to his deal at 2 million a year. Then we could convert 5 million of his 2013 base salary into signing bonus and spread that out over the 3 years. That would make him earn 2.67 million in 2013, and 3.67 million in 2014 and 15. His 2013 caphit would then become 6.47 million, which is much more reasonable than the 9.8. That would net us 3.33 million in 2013 cap savings, and lock him down for 2 more years while they try to groom a replacement.

badboy
12-15-2012, 01:19 PM
You know guys if you must spread rep then you can always rate thread. Just gave Dutch a Five star, for his excellent work :specnatz:

I don't know its tough to cut players or let them walk via free agency like they did last season. Was this a trend or anomaly?

Tough part for those of us who enjoy the mock draft process is that decisions will be faced & made before the draft that can influence (don't buy into BPA because need wins out end of day) construction of their draft board. Money is obviously a huge factor in this as well as teams scramble to work within salary constraints.

To replace Cody Texans would need to spend a first round pick on a NT.
To replace Antonio Smith Texans would have to spend 1st/2nd on a 5-tech DE.
To replace Wade Smith Texans would have to spend 2nd/3rd on a OG.

OR

They could trade for younger versions still under less costly contracts either under utilized in a bad situation or stuck behind entrenched starter like Myers was in Denver. Also via free agency, with another Wade Smith who I recall was in Kansas City. Texans paid to get Antonio, he has produced so they will continue to pay him most likely.

Texans love Kevin Walter. He is the company man, already restructured contract once will probably have to do it again.

Not to hijack your thread Dutch but based on crop of prospects, team need & cap ramifications I think Texans will be almost forced to look @ taking a replacement for Cody. A big, athletic run stopping DT with work ethic & smarts to actually elevate nose position. John Jenkins, Georgia.BL, thanks for heads up on rating thread; never done that. Also, I agree with most your post; just don't see Jenkins falling that far, but that has never stopped me from mocking a guy anyway!

Can anyone tell me why Luis Nix is not mocked anywhere? If you have watched Irish Chocolate you have be impressed to at least mock him. I am keeping him in second for now as no one else has him even that high.

badboy
12-15-2012, 02:00 PM
Sorry about that, I screwed up with my original Cap Casualties sheet and made the guaranteed money look like a portion of salary. I meant to do two different things with the columns, and they just merged into one wrong one :( Now that I'm sober, I fixed it :D I updated the OP to reflect the new numbers of cap savings and hits. Dead money is also included, but the main thing is the savings is 13.5 million for cutting all three of them. Granted, that is the last thing I want the team to do, but having 20 million in free cap space next year would be incredible.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2013CapCasualties_zps2574ffbb.jpg

I think Antonio Smith is a prime candidate for restructuring. He's 31 now, and could add 2 years to his deal at 2 million a year. Then we could convert 5 million of his 2013 base salary into signing bonus and spread that out over the 3 years. That would make him earn 2.67 million in 2013, and 3.67 million in 2014 and 15. His 2013 cap hit would then become 5.47 million, which is much more reasonable than the 9.8. That would net us 4.33 million in 2013 cap savings, and lock him down for 2 more years while they try to groom a replacement.

This is what I have been posting on other threads. Question though, Antonio's bonus $12.5 paid '09 prorated by 5= $2.5 m. Base for (now) '13 is $6 m + 2.5 m = $8.5 m cap not $9.8 m. Also new deal his cap for 2013 would be $1 m base (6 m -5 m) + the prorated $1.67 = 2.67 CAP (not earned), right? So rather than '13 cap of 8.5 m it would be 2.67 or saving to cap $5.83 m or $6 m rounded. I think Smith would jump at this and $6 m could bring a big time FA addition. Ryan Clady OT?
Not arguing just trying get straight in my head.

Edit: Smith signed for $35.5 in Feb 2009: we know his bonus was $12.5 and base for '12 is $5.5 & '13 is $6m = $24m so I extrapolate the difference $35 - 24 = $11.5 divide by 3 (2009 season, 2010 & 2011) = $3.83 m. Don't know of any guaranteed money other than bonus.

beerlover
12-15-2012, 02:26 PM
BL, thanks for heads up on rating thread; never done that. Also, I agree with most your post; just don't see Jenkins falling that far, but that has never stopped me from mocking a guy anyway!

Can anyone tell me why Luis Nix is not mocked anywhere? If you have watched Irish Chocolate you have be impressed to at least mock him. I am keeping him in second for now as no one else has him even that high.

Lets see him test out against that outstanding Alabama OL. If he can win some of those battles, how can NFL advisory board not grade him 1st round? For 3-4 scheme I think he would be a better fit than Lotulelei or Hawkins. If Poe was taken #11th overall Nix is most certainly top 10 thing is this years class is loaded with top tier talent @ DT (reason why Jenkins could drop further than one might think) Still there are plenty of 3-4 teams (Arizona Cardinals, Baltimore Ravens, Dallas Cowboys, Green Bay Packers, Houston Texans, Kansas City Chiefs, Indianapolis Colts, New York Jets, Pittsburgh Steelers, San Diego Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, Washington Redskins) using a variation of the 3-4 always with an eye for talent @ all important NT position. This year, despite Texans possibly picking last in pecking order (does not preclude possible trade up either) to grab one of these big boys to help Watt & Co. Cody being a free agent could open that door per thread :backsout:

badboy
12-15-2012, 02:34 PM
Lets see him test out against that outstanding Alabama OL. If he can win some of those battles, how can NFL advisory board not grade him 1st round? For 3-4 scheme I think he would be a better fit than Lotulelei or Hawkins. If Poe was taken #11th overall Nix is most certainly top 10 thing is this years class is loaded with top tier talent @ DT (reason why Jenkins could drop further than one might think) Still there are plenty of 3-4 teams (Arizona Cardinals, Baltimore Ravens, Dallas Cowboys, Green Bay Packers, Houston Texans, Kansas City Chiefs, Indianapolis Colts, New York Jets, Pittsburgh Steelers, San Diego Chargers, San Francisco 49ers, Washington Redskins) using a variation of the 3-4 always with an eye for talent @ all important NT position. This year, despite Texans possibly picking last in pecking order (does not preclude possible trade up either) to grab one of these big boys to help Watt & Co. Cody being a free agent could open that door per thread :backsout:Yep. come on Jan 7th! Those two teams have a lot of talent I'll be watching. Hoping some of those teams you mention will be needing something besides a Nose!

Dutchrudder
12-15-2012, 02:45 PM
This is what I have been posting on other threads. Question though, Antonio's bonus $12.5 paid '09 prorated by 5= $2.5 m. Base for (now) '13 is $6 m + 2.5 m = $8.5 m cap not $9.8 m. Also new deal his cap for 2013 would be $1 m base (6 m -5 m) + the prorated $1.67 = 2.67 CAP (not earned), right? So rather than '13 cap of 8.5 m it would be 2.67 or saving to cap $5.83 m or $6 m rounded. I think Smith would jump at this and $6 m could bring a big time FA addition. Ryan Clady OT?
Not arguing just trying get straight in my head.

Edit: Smith signed for $35.5 in Feb 2009: we know his bonus was $12.5 and base for '12 is $5.5 & '13 is $6m = $24m so I extrapolate the difference $35 - 24 = $11.5 divide by 3 (2009 season, 2010 & 2011) = $3.83 m. Don't know of any guaranteed money other than bonus.

As I said in the OP, Antonio restructured his deal by converting salary in 2011 to signing bonus. That's why I say there is 3.8 million in guaranteed money coming to him in 2013, 2.5 signing bonus, 1.3 restructure. Granted, it has already been paid out and isn't new money, it still counts against the cap no matter what.

As for my restructure proposal, that 6 million in salary next year is not guaranteed. If 5 of it is converted to signing bonus over 3 years, that's 5 million he is being paid that year, plus the 1 million in salary. So he will still get 6 million in 2013, but 3.33 of it will be moved to '14/15. That's a good amount of cap relief and could net us Glover Quin.

FYI, Ryan Clady turned down 10 million a year from the Broncos to be their LT for the next 5 years. I doubt he will want to take a paycut to become our RT. :)

aussie_texan
12-15-2012, 04:45 PM
BL, thanks for heads up on rating thread; never done that. Also, I agree with most your post; just don't see Jenkins falling that far, but that has never stopped me from mocking a guy anyway!

Can anyone tell me why Luis Nix is not mocked anywhere? If you have watched Irish Chocolate you have be impressed to at least mock him. I am keeping him in second for now as no one else has him even that high.

yeah i found this very strange as well. walter football doesn't have him in any mocks and only added him to his list of prospects a week or so ago.
cbssports from memory doesn't even have him in the prospects list.

i think he ends up going in the first, hopefully to us. once sport commentators put on his game tape and watch his combine and pro day he will shoot up mock draft boards. think Kendall Reyes from Connecticut last year that start the year as a 5th round pick ended up going in the 2nd.

badboy
12-15-2012, 04:46 PM
As I said in the OP, Antonio restructured his deal by converting salary in 2011 to signing bonus. That's why I say there is 3.8 million in guaranteed money coming to him in 2013, 2.5 signing bonus, 1.3 restructure. Granted, it has already been paid out and isn't new money, it still counts against the cap no matter what.

As for my restructure proposal, that 6 million in salary next year is not guaranteed. If 5 of it is converted to signing bonus over 3 years, that's 5 million he is being paid that year, plus the 1 million in salary. So he will still get 6 million in 2013, but 3.33 of it will be moved to '14/15. That's a good amount of cap relief and could net us Glover Quin.

FYI, Ryan Clady turned down 10 million a year from the Broncos to be their LT for the next 5 years. I doubt he will want to take a paycut to become our RT. :)I saw it in your OP but did not register. When you mention it in this last reply I went "what?" I remembered Ryans and AJ but forgot Smith. In fact googled and when I saw Smith's response it triggered. Thanks for correcting me. Funny, I was using Smith's savings for Quin also. Thanks for the back and forth!

aussie_texan
12-15-2012, 04:46 PM
also just wondering where you got all the contract info from, again great work dutch!

badboy
12-15-2012, 05:28 PM
yeah i found this very strange as well. walter football doesn't have him in any mocks and only added him to his list of prospects a week or so ago.
cbssports from memory doesn't even have him in the prospects list.

i think he ends up going in the first, hopefully to us. once sport commentators put on his game tape and watch his combine and pro day he will shoot up mock draft boards. think Kendall Reyes from Connecticut last year that start the year as a 5th round pick ended up going in the 2nd.NT for #1 college team and has been on TV many times and no one thinks he rates a top 3 round picks? Hope 31 other team agree he isn't very good. I'd prefer to get a Nose in second or later as I really like T. Williams.

thunderkyss
12-15-2012, 05:37 PM
If Antonio doesn't restructure, we're screwed. Would have been nice had Jamison not got hurt, to see if he was ready to fill the void Antonio would leave. I am not comfortable with Crick & do not want to create a need for the draft.

badboy
12-15-2012, 08:13 PM
If Antonio doesn't restructure, we're screwed. Would have been nice had Jamison not got hurt, to see if he was ready to fill the void Antonio would leave. I am not comfortable with Crick & do not want to create a need for the draft.Why do you think we are screwed? Smith is under contract & IIRC we have about $6m under cap for 2013 with FAs listed above in this thread. Just have to be selective with whom we re-sign. Hopefully Crick will be ready in '14 to replace Smith and Brooks to replace Wade Smith. Selective FAs & another good draft and we will be just fine.

Dutchrudder
12-15-2012, 08:28 PM
also just wondering where you got all the contract info from, again great work dutch!

Sporttrac and rotoworld for most of it, but its good to verify with other sources for stuff like restuctures.

Dutchrudder
12-19-2012, 01:22 PM
If Antonio doesn't restructure, we're screwed. Would have been nice had Jamison not got hurt, to see if he was ready to fill the void Antonio would leave. I am not comfortable with Crick & do not want to create a need for the draft.

I certainly wouldn't say we are screwed. 3.8 million of his caphit is guaranteed no matter what, the team has already paid it and it will hit the 2013 cap. The 6 million is flexible, meaning that it can be erased from the books, or possibly restructured. If he was willing to take an outright paycut of 2-3 million, I would do it and guarantee the rest of his salary that year. If he's not willing to budge, then cut him loose and spend the 6 million elsewhere. He's not irreplaceable at all.

Kevin Walter's deal is another option in the team's favor. 4.5 million not guaranteed is easy to work with for Rick Smith. Either Walter does what they want, or he can take a hike and try to get that money elsewhere. Good luck getting 3+ million for a guy with his resume at 31. I expect him to restructure down to 2 million this year or be cut. He's overpaid as it is right now.

Wade Smith I expect to stay put. The cap savings from him is small compared to the others, but I just don't think he's as replaceable as the others. Keep him one more year and find another guard in the meantime.

Exascor
12-19-2012, 01:31 PM
Just gotta say awesome as always Dutch. Sorry I missed it earlier. Just wow... Rep incoming.

badboy
12-19-2012, 03:00 PM
I certainly wouldn't say we are screwed. 3.8 million of his caphit is guaranteed no matter what, the team has already paid it and it will hit the 2013 cap. The 6 million is flexible, meaning that it can be erased from the books, or possibly restructured. If he was willing to take an outright paycut of 2-3 million, I would do it and guarantee the rest of his salary that year. If he's not willing to budge, then cut him loose and spend the 6 million elsewhere. He's not irreplaceable at all.

Kevin Walter's deal is another option in the team's favor. 4.5 million not guaranteed is easy to work with for Rick Smith. Either Walter does what they want, or he can take a hike and try to get that money elsewhere. Good luck getting 3+ million for a guy with his resume at 31. I expect him to restructure down to 2 million this year or be cut. He's overpaid as it is right now.

Wade Smith I expect to stay put. The cap savings from him is small compared to the others, but I just don't think he's as replaceable as the others. Keep him one more year and find another guard in the meantime.At the time Chris Olsen was hired, I had no idea how valuable he would be. This team is rounding out nicely and under the cap, also. Looks like we can continue to shop for reasonable FAs to add depth. Maybe a Manning type deal for a vet starter, if something great comes along.

Dutchrudder
12-19-2012, 04:43 PM
Well, I did some homework and created a projected cap number spreadsheet. I think I accounted for just about everything I could possibly find, but some of it is still wishy washy. Unfortunately the lower tier contracts are simply not important enough to be reported in detail, and that adds to the mystery of NFL cap projections. I'll discuss that more below, but without further ado, here are my cap projections!







Drum roll please....
:ant:










http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23546939.jpg













Hooray numbers!

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/TexansCapProjections_zps8e91ca41.jpg


2012 Cap:

So the first thing that might jump out at you is the 2012 cap number being 121,905,328. You might be thinking, "Dutch, you blithering son of a biatch! How can the Texans have a higher cap number than the actual cap of 120.6 million?"

Well, in my analysis, I could not find any hard numbers on the cost of some of our IR'd vets: Kenyaron Fox, Rashon Harris, Tim Jamison, Rashad Butler and even Randy Bullock. I suspect that at least a couple of these are split contracts, but I couldn't find anything conclusive, so I'm counting them at the value that they would have otherwise been. If we were to assume a 50% split contract on each of them, their cap hits would collectively be reduced by 1,967,500, which would put the Texans just a hair under 120 million. It's also worth mentioning the fact that our current active roster is only costing the team 97.8 million. That's pretty cheap given the results, but it means we are drafting well and keeping costs down.

The next thing that might jump out at you is the 2013 cap projection of $109,206,020, or in other words, 11.394 million in cap space (assuming 120.6m cap). You might be thinking to yourself, "Dutch this is great news, I take back all the awful things I said about you and your mother!" However, there is a catch. This projection only includes the 41 contracts that will count against the cap in 2013, so there are still 12 open spaces to fill on the 53 man roster, which will use at least 405k each. Here is the current minimum salary matrix:
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/nflvetminimum_zpsbe1bc261.jpg

As you can see, everything is escalating 15k across the board (cap hit is 555k for vet minimum players). I think 500k per player is a reasonable estimate for these 12 spots, so that would be up to 6 million more taken away from the cap. That gives us a projected real cap value of 115.2 million, or about 5.4 million in extra free space, depending on how you want to look at it. You might be thinking to yourself, "Dammit Dutch, can't you let me bathe in the warmth of imagining the Texan's signing Mike Wallace and Dwight Freeney for just one minute before you come in and defenestrate my dreams!"

No, sorry, I cannot do that =P

But fear not! As mentioned in the OP, there is 13.5 million in cap cuts available to the team if needed, so it's not nearly as dire of a situation as it appears. Yes, we will be squeezed a bit next year, but we will not be in as bad of a situation as many other teams who do not have this flexibility.

Dead Money:

One of the toughest things to figure out in cap projections is dead money, the money left over from cutting players, trading them or if they retire. This is my current list of dead money projections:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2012DeadMoney_zpse99da73f.jpg

I pulled a good deal of this from Sporttrac, and I searched for what I could on the big names. You might be thinking, "Dutch, you inglorious halfwit nincompoop! How on earth does Demeco cost 9 million after we traded him??" Well, I'll let Alan Burge explain it:

Ryans' dead money estimates were all over the place Tuesday evening. Adam Caplan and I were going back and forth on the subject on Twitter for a good half-hour and I finally tapped out when we got to the point that the Texans would lose cap space on the deal. Hopefully that's not true but Ryan's $7.5 million signing bonus in 2010 prorates at $1.25 million per year - and with 4 years remaining on his deal, that accelerates $5 million. Plus, Ryans had another restructure in 2011 that reduced his base pay by about $5 million. When you prorate that (on top of the original proration) you get $2.25 per year over the remaining four years or $9 million in dead money. Ryans' cap hit was somewhere around $8 million this year. You do the math.

http://www.examiner.com/article/texans-continue-salary-purge-trade-ryans

It appears that this is the case, but the good news is that it's a one-time cost. After this year, we will have cleared over 16 million in dead weight from the books and will use it to pay guys like Duane Brown and Matt Schaub into the future.

Other guys that may not cost as much as listed are Eric Winston and Jacoby Jones. We know that both had a few years left on their deals when they were cut, but I'm not certain that we know how the money will be spread out. Winston had 2 million left on his deal, but he could have been designated a June 1st cut (he was cut in May), and that would split his 2m between 2012 and 2013.

Personally, I'm not sold on the idea that Jacoby only had 1m guaranteed left on his deal. Another site mentions he will cost the Texans 2.5 million after his cut:
The Texans parted ways with WR/PR Jacoby Jones, releasing him on Tuesday. The move will cost the team $2.5 million.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-rapidreports/18924788
So it could be that he cost 1.25 million this year and next, or it could be wrong. I just don't have confirmation either way, so I'll roll with 1 million for now.

Practice Squad:

So, this often gets overlooked, but the Practice Squad guys can actually cost a bit. This year, it costs $5,700 per player, per week (17 regular season), plus each playoff week, and you can have up to 8 of these guys active at any time. Our current roster with cap hit projections:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2012PracticeSquad_zps624f638e.jpg

You may look at this and say yourself, "Dutch, you are as sharp as a bowling ball! There are 9 people on your list and the costs are going down from year to year!" Well, given the salary structure above, I'm projecting 2 weeks of playoff pay, and that will hopefully go up. That's why the 2012 figure is higher than 13/14. Also, Phillip Supernaw was placed on the Psquad Injured list in October, so I'm projecting 11 weeks of pay for him this year. That gives us a total of 929,100 on the season, which is subject to change. These are just baseline minimum projections though, teams are allowed to pay more than the minimum to players on the practice squad, but most don't. I have no sources showing that the Texans paid more than minimum for any of these players, but if anyone else sees something please post it!

Edit: I now realize I still have Brice McCain on the active roster and not in the IR section. I'm not going to redo all those pics just for that, so whatever, but feel free to consider 1.333 million in the IR list instead of the active roster. This doesn't change the bottom line, unless he has something in his contract about going on IR.

steelbtexan
12-19-2012, 04:46 PM
NT for #1 college team and has been on TV many times and no one thinks he rates a top 3 round picks? Hope 31 other team agree he isn't very good. I'd prefer to get a Nose in second or later as I really like T. Williams.

Dont have a link, but Nix said he was returning to school.

badboy
12-19-2012, 05:02 PM
So $5.4 clear under cap & approx $13.5 if needed for right player(s) and from that we have to decide which of our own FA to keep? I had guesstimated about 15. Thanks for the info as always!

rmartin65
12-19-2012, 05:38 PM
Awesome Dutch... just awesome. Quick question- how do rookie salaries fit into the whole shebang?

Dutchrudder
12-19-2012, 06:11 PM
So $5.4 clear under cap & approx $13.5 if needed for right player(s) and from that we have to decide which of our own FA to keep? I had guesstimated about 15. Thanks for the info as always!

Well, it depends on how you look at it. 11.X million is my best guess as to how much we have on the books for 2013 at the moment, but that's only 41 of 53 players, and it includes 17 weeks of a full Practice Squad. I'm suggesting that we assume that those 12 spots will eat up 500k a piece, which will take the free space down to 5.x million. So if you want to add a free agent that will cost 3.5 million dollars in 2013, you need to subtract 3 million from the estimate, leaving 2.x million. I'm just trying to fend off the "we have 11 million in free space, let's spend 9 of it on Mike Wallace" type comments. It's not truly empty space. Even at the bare minimum of 405k per player, those 12 spots will cost 4.86 million.


Awesome Dutch... just awesome. Quick question- how do rookie salaries fit into the whole shebang?

Well, I'm not really accounting for them in this. I'm just assuming those 12 spots will be filled by players that cost 500k a piece. Most of the rookies will be slightly above that, somewhere in the 500-700k range this year. So the 2nd-7th guys will cost maybe a little more than the projection has now, but not too much. Brandon Harris was 600k last year, 750k this year; Reed was 850k last year, 1.06m this year; compared to Mercilus who is 1,388,016 this year.

If we have a 1st round pick, he will likely cost about 1-2 million dollars in 2013. That's the most significant cost, and quite honestly, I think it would be wise to trade out of the 1st to save some cap money, move to the top of the 2nd and spend a lot of low picks pushing 4/5 rounders up to 2nds or 3rds. We wasted a lot of dead money on guys like Keo, McManis and others who were late picks, and I'd rather not have so many late picks that will just be cut due to numbers.

Corrosion
12-19-2012, 07:26 PM
Thanks Dutch .... didnt see this until now. Havent been on here all that much the past few days ....


Good idea and great presentation ..... :corrosion:

aussie_texan
12-19-2012, 09:47 PM
amazing work as usual

Wolf6151
12-20-2012, 01:57 AM
DR, you have proven to me that I'd be a terrible GM, all that number crunching gives me a headache. I think I'm pretty good as far as the talent evaluation goes but all the contract and dollar figures makes me reach for the Tylenol.

Well done Sir....

beerlover
12-20-2012, 11:40 AM
If we have a 1st round pick, he will likely cost about 1-2 million dollars in 2013. That's the most significant cost, and quite honestly, I think it would be wise to trade out of the 1st to save some cap money, move to the top of the 2nd and spend a lot of low picks pushing 4/5 rounders up to 2nds or 3rds. We wasted a lot of dead money on guys like Keo, McManis and others who were late picks, and I'd rather not have so many late picks that will just be cut due to numbers.

Excellent work Dutch :goodpost:

On top of saving 16 million in dead cap money off the books next season trading down or out of 1st is a distinct possibility. Another option could be trading Texan 2013 1st for a lesser teams 1st in a following season 2014 or 2015 & improving a current draft slot to a higher pick :clap:

76Texan
12-20-2012, 11:53 AM
:perfect10:

Good job, Dutch

mussop
12-20-2012, 01:08 PM
GREAT JOB! The only thing I disagree with is, I don't see Smith going anywhere next year. A case could be made that he is the second best 5tech in the NFL behind you know who!

thunderkyss
12-20-2012, 01:26 PM
GREAT JOB! The only thing I disagree with is, I don't see Smith going anywhere next year. A case could be made that he is the second best 5tech in the NFL behind you know who!

He never plays the 5.

However, after leaving Arizona directly after their Super Bowl appearance, I would think he'd like to stay & see this thing through.

badboy
12-20-2012, 01:40 PM
He never plays the 5.

However, after leaving Arizona directly after their Super Bowl appearance, I would think he'd like to stay & see this thing through.You guys talking about Antoine remaining after his contracted year of 2013 @ $6m?

thunderkyss
12-20-2012, 01:43 PM
You guys talking about Antoine remaining after his contracted year of 2013 @ $6m?

I think we are speculating that Antonio will be asked to restructure or take a pay cut.

badboy
12-20-2012, 01:52 PM
I think we are speculating that Antonio will be asked to restructure or take a pay cut.Cool and I thing he would restructure, especially if he could get $3-4m in his hands quicker.

Dutchrudder
12-20-2012, 04:44 PM
Excellent work Dutch :goodpost:

On top of saving 16 million in dead cap money off the books next season trading down or out of 1st is a distinct possibility. Another option could be trading Texan 2013 1st for a lesser teams 1st in a following season 2014 or 2015 & improving a current draft slot to a higher pick :clap:

The thought had crossed my mind, but I don't see it happening unless we win the Super Bowl. Kind of hard to justify avoiding a 1st round pick when you have issues that kept the team from going the distance. I could definitely see us doing that with mid-round picks, say trading our 4th and 6th for a 2014 late 2nd or early 3rd. That works fine IMO, anything that helps us avoid 11 draft picks or more coming in this season. I think we don't need more than 8 at most to avoid cap liability.

GREAT JOB! The only thing I disagree with is, I don't see Smith going anywhere next year. A case could be made that he is the second best 5tech in the NFL behind you know who!

Thanks! Per Antonio, like I said in a follow up post, he could restructure, which would keep him on the team. My biggest problem with Antonio is the fact that he has Watt on the other side of him, and he's not as productive of a pass rusher as I would expect of someone in that situation. He's also just average at stopping the run. I don't think there has been a moment in his time with the Texans where I would have said he was worth 9.8 million a year, or much less at 6. Same argument could be made against Walter, he's overpaid with a top 5 WR on the other side of him, he's clearly not quick enough or can't make the cuts to create separation to warrant him being the #2. Bottom line, I think we could do better while spending less.

As far as mocks go for the mock-heads around here, consider finding a new 3-4 DE this draft to replace Smith. His cap savings is huge and drafting another DE could help in the restructure negotiations. Just something to think about.

mussop
12-20-2012, 05:01 PM
He never plays the 5.

However, after leaving Arizona directly after their Super Bowl appearance, I would think he'd like to stay & see this thing through.

What you talkin about Willis?

mussop
12-20-2012, 05:08 PM
The thought had crossed my mind, but I don't see it happening unless we win the Super Bowl. Kind of hard to justify avoiding a 1st round pick when you have issues that kept the team from going the distance. I could definitely see us doing that with mid-round picks, say trading our 4th and 6th for a 2014 late 2nd or early 3rd. That works fine IMO, anything that helps us avoid 11 draft picks or more coming in this season. I think we don't need more than 8 at most to avoid cap liability.



Thanks! Per Antonio, like I said in a follow up post, he could restructure, which would keep him on the team. My biggest problem with Antonio is the fact that he has Watt on the other side of him, and he's not as productive of a pass rusher as I would expect of someone in that situation. He's also just average at stopping the run. I don't think there has been a moment in his time with the Texans where I would have said he was worth 9.8 million a year, or much less at 6. Same argument could be made against Walter, he's overpaid with a top 5 WR on the other side of him, he's clearly not quick enough or can't make the cuts to create separation to warrant him being the #2. Bottom line, I think we could do better while spending less.

As far as mocks go for the mock-heads around here, consider finding a new 3-4 DE this draft to replace Smith. His cap savings is huge and drafting another DE could help in the restructure negotiations. Just something to think about.


I could be wrong but I don't think there is another 3/4 DE with more sacks right now than A Smith. And sorry I didn't finish reading entire thread before posting. Yes I believe we will work something out with Smith this offseason. He is a good fit here in more ways than one.

thunderkyss
12-20-2012, 05:19 PM
What you talkin about Willis?

Whether we're playing three down linemen or 4, Antonio plays inside the tackle. He's a 3 tech with the weak-side OLB playing the 5.

I could be wrong but I don't think there is another 3/4 DE with more sacks right now than A Smith. And sorry I didn't finish reading entire thread before posting. Yes I believe we will work something out with Smith this offseason. He is a good fit here in more ways than one.

I agree. He's been as productive as you'd think a 3-4 DE would be in the passing game. But Dutch is talking about his run defense.

Personally, I think he's been getting it done moreso this year than in the past. I think he's doing a fine job just don't like the money.

mussop
12-20-2012, 09:45 PM
Whether we're playing three down linemen or 4, Antonio plays inside the tackle. He's a 3 tech with the weak-side OLB playing the 5.

I don't think you are grasping the concept of the 3/4.



I agree. He's been as productive as you'd think a 3-4 DE would be in the passing game. But Dutch is talking about his run defense.


I was responding to this which I highlighted.


My biggest problem with Antonio is the fact that he has Watt on the other side of him, and he's not as productive of a pass rusher as I would expect of someone in that situation.


Yes 9 million is out of the question. Like I said, I think he is important enough to this team in more ways than just as a player and so they will get things worked out with him that will be beneficial to both sides.

thunderkyss
12-20-2012, 10:26 PM
I don't think you are grasping the concept of the 3/4.



Please explain

76Texan
12-21-2012, 12:17 AM
Just like any team in the NFL, we're a multi-front team (though we have more different fronts than most.)

Our favorite front is the WILL WINK (5-man front).
It looks quite similar to the 4-man under (with a LB on the LOS).

In this front, the NT shades to the strong side as a 1-tech
The weak-side DE lines up outside the weak-side guard as a 3-tech (Antonio Smith).
The weak-side OLB lines up about 2 yard outside the weak-side tackle as a 7-tech.

The strong-side DE lines up on the outside eye of the strong side tackle to head-up (4 or 5-tech) (Watt).
The strong side OLB lines up usually outside the TE as a 9-tech.

The two OLBs could line up wider than that, for different reasons (depending on the offensive personnel, or certain specific D-call).

It really is very simlar to the 4-man under front, except that Watt is head-up on the tackle more often than outside the tackle.

And we have two guys with hands off the ground (the 2 OLBs) whereas the 4-man under has the weak-side DE with hand on the ground.

The NT, the UT (under tackle), and the SAM (strong side OLB) are the same on either front.

badboy
12-21-2012, 08:39 AM
My defense of preference is "Go Get 'em".

Specnatz
12-21-2012, 01:20 PM
Can anyone tell me why Luis Nix is not mocked anywhere? If you have watched Irish Chocolate you have be impressed to at least mock him. I am keeping him in second for now as no one else has him even that high.

yeah i found this very strange as well. walter football doesn't have him in any mocks and only added him to his list of prospects a week or so ago.
cbssports from memory doesn't even have him in the prospects list.

i think he ends up going in the first, hopefully to us. once sport commentators put on his game tape and watch his combine and pro day he will shoot up mock draft boards. think Kendall Reyes from Connecticut last year that start the year as a 5th round pick ended up going in the 2nd.

Dont have a link, but Nix said he was returning to school.

Early on Nix did say he was not even thinking about the draft and planned on returning to school, but all of this is predicated on how he was graded before his rise in value. Also, he is a Jr so a lot of folks did not have them on his draft boards because most ND players do not turn pro early. Tuck, Clausen, Autry Denson (don't ask, no one knows why), can not think of anyone else. I know there has been less than 10 to leave school early and enter the draft.

Walter Football is one of the better out there and they usually add a guy when there is a good chance of them leaving school early.

badboy
12-21-2012, 04:18 PM
The thought had crossed my mind, but I don't see it happening unless we win the Super Bowl. Kind of hard to justify avoiding a 1st round pick when you have issues that kept the team from going the distance. I could definitely see us doing that with mid-round picks, say trading our 4th and 6th for a 2014 late 2nd or early 3rd. That works fine IMO, anything that helps us avoid 11 draft picks or more coming in this season. I think we don't need more than 8 at most to avoid cap liability.



Thanks! Per Antonio, like I said in a follow up post, he could restructure, which would keep him on the team. My biggest problem with Antonio is the fact that he has Watt on the other side of him, and he's not as productive of a pass rusher as I would expect of someone in that situation. He's also just average at stopping the run. I don't think there has been a moment in his time with the Texans where I would have said he was worth 9.8 million a year, or much less at 6. Same argument could be made against Walter, he's overpaid with a top 5 WR on the other side of him, he's clearly not quick enough or can't make the cuts to create separation to warrant him being the #2. Bottom line, I think we could do better while spending less.

As far as mocks go for the mock-heads around here, consider finding a new 3-4 DE this draft to replace Smith. His cap savings is huge and drafting another DE could help in the restructure negotiations. Just something to think about.I think Crick will help Smith to consider restructuring and then bringing in my mock 6th Lewis-Moore a motor from Notre Dame would also make his ears perk up. No need to spend a higher pick if you truly want Smith here. AGain, I am really looking to off season after a tremendous season, decent draft picks and some wiggle room under cap as is and more as you suggest with some manuevering. :snowday:

ObsiWan
12-24-2012, 07:01 PM
Corrosion asked me to make a thread about the Texans 2013 offseason, because the info is good for making mock drafts. So I thought I could put together a little something to help you all out when making mocks and have an easy reference for FAQs like compensatory picks, UFAs/RFAs, and some cap space guesses (yes that's what they all are).

I made an Excel spreadsheet for this and took some screenshots to make it easy to read and display. The forum software doesn't do well with Excel copy/paste data, so if changes need to be made, it might be later on in the thread. Anyways, feel free to poke holes in my arguments or offer feedback on whatever. I'm putting it in this forum specifically for Mock Draft help.

Texans 2013 Free Agents:


We have 21 total UFAs, 13 on defense, 6 on offense, and 2 special teams. As you can see, we have several starters that are not under contract next year. By my own estimations, I would list 7 of these 21 as key contributors to this season: Quin S, Barwin OLB, Dobbins ILB, McCain CB, Cody DT, Caldwell OG, Casey TE (5 defense, 2 offense). When constructing mock drafts, I think it's important to see where we are losing depth, and its clear that the defense will be losing quite a bit if these players aren't retained. Before anyone says it, I don't consider either kicker to be a key contributor because they are easily replaced.

I included their salary and cap hits for this year to show how much they cost this year, but at the moment I don't have an exact estimate of capspace for next year. At this point, I think we will have 8-10 million free after the new Brown and Schaub contracts, but I feel that is slightly optomistic. JJo also restructured this year and pushed 1.3 million into each of the next three years. I think 8 million is a solid cap space projection, assuming nothing else changes. Remember though, about 3-5 million of that will need to be retained for signing draft picks, depending on how many high picks we have. (trade ups cost more than just the draft picks and players used, you guarantee a lot more money to high picks)

Cap Casualties:

So given that we will likely be up against the cap once again, I have identified the most likely candidates to be cut or restructured. Here are the costs and savings for each.



The Guaranteed Pay for each of them is signing bonuses plus restructured money. Antonio's number is a bit higher than other sites may show because he restructured in 2011 to help us sign JJo and Manning. Wade doesn't have much left on his deal, but cutting him actually saves more money than Antonio. As far as I know, none of Walter's money is guaranteed, if anyone knows otherwise please post it.

Clearly something has to be done about Walter and Antonio. Antonio is not worth 9.8 million nor the 8.5 million that he was originally scheduled to make. Walter isn't worth 4.5 million and should take another paycut or head to Baltimore. The bottom line is that we could save 13.5 million by simply cutting these guys. That could make our cap space go up to about 20 million, which would enable us to sign retain our own free agents and possibly sign a new impact player or two.

Compensatory Picks:

In addition to the 7 picks that the Texans have in the 2013 draft, they will have 4 more compensatory picks coming their way. The Texans lost 4 qualifying free agents and signed zero. Yes, zero qualifying free agents signed.

Here is a listing of our guys, my projection for them, and some comparable comp picks that I was able to identify.



Mario is most definitely going to give us a 3rd in return. He has 10 sacks on the year and a huge contract. I couldn't find any TEs that were a good match for Dreessen, but given his salary and game time, I think a 5th is in order. Briesel is a guard who started all 13 games so far, but guards don't seem to garner high picks. I'm sure he's worth a 5th based on salary alone, but I doubt he results in a 4th. Jason Allen has barely played for the Bengals, so I doubt we get more than a 7th for him, but it's better than nothing.

Edit: Compensatory Pick Requirements:



Practice Squad 2012:

Another way to backfill depth is to call up practice squad players. Several of these guys have been with the team for a while and may be ready to step up to the 53 man roster. Currently we have these guys:


I think Pleasant may take Demps spot on the roster next year. I would love to see one of the TEs develop into a solid blocker and save us a late round draft pick. If Mondek could develop more, maybe he could become our swing tackle and we could let Newton stay at RT. Lots of options to consider.

Superb post. Excellent data presentation.
:clap:
Even *I* can understand our salary cap picture with this info.
How can I pin this sucker so I can refer back to it when needed???

Corrosion
12-27-2012, 12:51 AM
Can we get a stickey on this thread please ?!!!??

Corrosion
12-27-2012, 06:11 PM
Thanks for the stickey! :fostering:

welsh texan
01-15-2013, 10:33 AM
Great read, can't help but wonder if some of that spare money will have to go on resigning Cush, and they'll surely already be looking ahead to how the hell they can keep hold of Watt as well.

Agree on the Antonio Smith stuff too. Dude is a really good cog but its a high price to pay for him and he's getting to an age where putting money in his hand now will mean more than the chance of a little more in the future. Lock him up for 2 extra years and convert to bonus, resign Cush, and work with what you have left.

badboy
01-17-2013, 03:31 PM
Great read, can't help but wonder if some of that spare money will have to go on resigning Cush, and they'll surely already be looking ahead to how the hell they can keep hold of Watt as well.

Agree on the Antonio Smith stuff too. Dude is a really good cog but its a high price to pay for him and he's getting to an age where putting money in his hand now will mean more than the chance of a little more in the future. Lock him up for 2 extra years and convert to bonus, resign Cush, and work with what you have left.To supply money to extend Cushing in 2014 as we did with Brown and Foster, we could bonus them out in 2014. We could also bonus out Johnathan Joseph so we should also be all right with players coming up in 2015 like Watt, Derek Newton and Kareem Jackson. Chris Myers in 2014 $5 m could Ben Jones replace him then? And let's not forget the guy we all love to hate Matt Schaub $10 m in 2014 could be bonused.

O D will be 32 in 2014 $4.4m?

Danieal Manning 32 in 2014 $4.5m?

I think we should have no problem keeping the stars we want if they are willing to work with Texans. Next two off season will be very interesting.

aussie_texan
01-17-2013, 07:55 PM
To supply money to extend Cushing in 2014 as we did with Brown and Foster, we could bonus them out in 2014. We could also bonus out Johnathan Joseph so we should also be all right with players coming up in 2015 like Watt, Derek Newton and Kareem Jackson. Chris Myers in 2014 $5 m could Ben Jones replace him then? And let's not forget the guy we all love to hate Matt Schaub $10 m in 2014 could be bonused.

O D will be 32 in 2014 $4.4m?

Danieal Manning 32 in 2014 $4.5m?

I think we should have no problem keeping the stars we want if they are willing to work with Texans. Next two off season will be very interesting.

i know next year the cap isnt going to move much but maybe by 2015 it should see a large upward swing? yes

76Texan
01-17-2013, 11:30 PM
i know next year the cap isnt going to move much but maybe by 2015 it should see a large upward swing? yes

Unfortunately, from what John Clayton reported, the cap will most likely remain flat through 2015.

It was supposed to be lower the first few years of the new CBA, but they struck some kind of deal; the result is a cap that hardly makes an upward move for at least a few more years.

76Texan
01-17-2013, 11:32 PM
Great read, can't help but wonder if some of that spare money will have to go on resigning Cush, and they'll surely already be looking ahead to how the hell they can keep hold of Watt as well.

Agree on the Antonio Smith stuff too. Dude is a really good cog but its a high price to pay for him and he's getting to an age where putting money in his hand now will mean more than the chance of a little more in the future. Lock him up for 2 extra years and convert to bonus, resign Cush, and work with what you have left.

I think Shaun Cody will be gone, too.
That is unless he takes a paycut.

mussop
01-19-2013, 12:30 PM
I think Shaun Cody will be gone, too.
That is unless he takes a paycut.

I don't see us even making him an offer. His play is below average and he seems to be breaking down with age.

srrono
01-20-2013, 07:47 PM
My thoughts on 2013 Compensatory Draft Picks for HOU. Am I forgetting anyone?

Texans lost DE Mario Williams and will receive 3rd round pick.
Texans lost G Mike Brisiel and will receive a 5th round pick.
Texans lost CB Jason Allen and will receive a 6th round pick.
Texans lost TE Joel Dreessen and will receive a 6th round pick.


Texans lost FB Lawrence Vickers who is canceled out by signing of P Donnie Jones.

amazing80
01-20-2013, 07:48 PM
My thoughts on 2013 Compensatory Draft Picks for Houston. Am I forgetting anyone?

The Houston Texans lost Mario Williams and will receive 3rd round pick.
The Houston Texans lost Mike Brisiel and will receive a 5th round pick.
The Houston Texans lost Jason Allen and will receive a 6th round pick.
The Houston Texans lost Joel Dreessen and will receive a 6th round pick.


The Houston Texans lost Lawrence Vickers who is canceled out by Donnie Jones.

its rumored we get a 3rd and 3 6ths

RT22
01-20-2013, 08:11 PM
I think it will be more like...
3rd - Williams
5th - Dressen
6th - Briesel

amazing80
01-20-2013, 08:17 PM
Unfortunately, from what John Clayton reported, the cap will most likely remain flat through 2015.

It was supposed to be lower the first few years of the new CBA, but they struck some kind of deal; the result is a cap that hardly makes an upward move for at least a few more years.

From what I remember, it was going to increase a few percent each season or something, not just balloon in one year or 2 years

76Texan
01-21-2013, 09:14 AM
From what I remember, it was going to increase a few percent each season or something, not just balloon in one year or 2 years

Unfortunately , it's more like a drop in the ocean, at least for this upcoming year.

badboy
01-21-2013, 02:03 PM
My thoughts on 2013 Compensatory Draft Picks for HOU. Am I forgetting anyone?

Texans lost DE Mario Williams and will receive 3rd round pick.
Texans lost G Mike Brisiel and will receive a 5th round pick.
Texans lost CB Jason Allen and will receive a 6th round pick.
Texans lost TE Joel Dreessen and will receive a 6th round pick.


Texans lost FB Lawrence Vickers who is canceled out by signing of P Donnie Jones.More accurate to say Texans mayreceive...

I could see Dreesen bringing at least a fifth.

Dutchrudder
01-21-2013, 02:21 PM
Well, I have been looking into comp picks a bit more since the topic came up again. I have to amend my initial projection to a 3,5,6,6. Here's where I'm at:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/Texans2013CompensatoryPicks-1_zps7fcd99d0.jpg


Mario is a lock for a 3rd.

I believe Brisiel will be worth a 5th due to his 16 starts, 4 million a year AAV (Contract's Average Annual Value) and because he played the majority of the Raiders snaps this year.

I'm dropping Dreesen down to a 6th because his contract value is too low, and the Broncos didn't go as far in the playoffs as I thought they would. He had average TE stats (41 rec, 356 yards, 5 TDs), and played about 75% of their snaps. Had the Broncos made the AFCC or Super Bowl, I believe he would have moved up a round.

I'm putting Jason Allen as a 6th, but he's a wild card. His contract would normally be worth a 5th on AAV alone, but his snaps played is so low, that I think he will be dinged a round or two. I originally put him as a 7th because he started zero games, and only played defense for 3 snaps, the rest was special teams. I don't know how this will work out, he could be anywhere from a 5th to a 7th, but I'll take the conservative route and say 6th.

I found some info on compensatory picks last year with AAV ranges for the picks and this was the matrix for 2012. These ranges can change, but we could have anywhere from a 3, 5,5,6 to a 3,6,7,7.

3 - $6.5/$7 million and greater
4 - $5 to $6.5/$7 million
5 - $4 to $5 million
6 - $2.5/2.75 to $4 million
7 - $1 to $2.5/2.75 million

Dutchrudder
01-21-2013, 02:22 PM
My thoughts on 2013 Compensatory Draft Picks for HOU. Am I forgetting anyone?

Texans lost DE Mario Williams and will receive 3rd round pick.
Texans lost G Mike Brisiel and will receive a 5th round pick.
Texans lost CB Jason Allen and will receive a 6th round pick.
Texans lost TE Joel Dreessen and will receive a 6th round pick.


Texans lost FB Lawrence Vickers who is canceled out by signing of P Donnie Jones.

Where did you get this info? Vickers was cut, and will not affect comp picks. Donnie jones was a minimum deal, and won't affect comp picks.

76Texan
02-03-2013, 02:13 PM
I need some confirmation.
As I understand it, each FA we signed cancels out one that we lost.

Lost:
Mario
Allen
Brisiel
Dreessen

Signed:
James
Donnie Jones.

It looks to me like we will only get two comp pick:
A third for Mario and a sixth for Allen (due to the value of the contract they signed with the new teams.)

Did I miss something ?

skenney_11
02-03-2013, 02:27 PM
I think the caliber of the FA determines if the compensatory pick gets canceled out. So for instance, I lbelieve Jones and James did not affect how many compensatory picks the Texans are awarded.

TheIronDuke
02-03-2013, 02:40 PM
We signed more than those 2. Off the top of my head we signed Shayne Graham, Ball, Forsett, Harris and I'm sure I'm missing others. But I don't think players who get signed for insignificant money count against teams. Dutch projected an additional 3rd, 4th and 6th IIRC.

dalemurphy
02-03-2013, 02:42 PM
I need some confirmation.
As I understand it, each FA we signed cancels out one that we lost.

Lost:
Mario
Allen
Brisiel
Dreessen

Signed:
James
Donnie Jones.

It looks to me like we will only get two comp pick:
A third for Mario and a sixth for Allen (due to the value of the contract they signed with the new teams.)

Did I miss something ?


Rackers' deal may also have reached a qualifying offer... it was certainly more than the two you listed.

According to anything I have seen, the Texans should qualify for 4 compensatory picks... with one being a 3rd,

The question is what they get for Briesel and Dreessen (4th-6th) and whether Allen will get them a 6th or 7th (his lack of play may knock him down).

My best guess: 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th.

Playoffs
02-03-2013, 03:04 PM
Dutch has a section on this:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96961&highlight=compensatory

Lucky
02-03-2013, 03:16 PM
Rackers' deal may also have reached a qualifying offer... it was certainly more than the two you listed.

According to anything I have seen, the Texans should qualify for 4 compensatory picks... with one being a 3rd,

The question is what they get for Briesel and Dreessen (4th-6th) and whether Allen will get them a 6th or 7th (his lack of play may knock him down).

My best guess: 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th.
I don't think Rackers deal, or anyone the Texans signed reached the minimum qualifying offer threshold. Based upon what I have seen and read over the years, I think the actual contract is where the round of compensation is slotted, then performance based inside that round is given credence.

Mario is an obvious third. Brisiel and Allen both signed deals that averaged $4 million, and I think that puts their compensation firmly in the 6th round. Dreessen's deal was for less than $3 million/year, but I think that will be good enough for the 6th round, as well. My guess at this point is one 3rd and 3 6th rounders. This guy adamjt13 (http://adamjt13.blogspot.com/)did a great job at guessing the compensatory slots, but hasn't done them in awhile.

76Texan
02-03-2013, 03:43 PM
Hey, maybe I'll get the three sixth rounders I was clamoring for.

I guess it's time to go look for a potential diamond in the rough.

IDEXAN
02-04-2013, 10:19 AM
Comp pics come at the end of the round, right ? For example, if we'd get a third-round comp for Mario, we'd get the 33rd pic of the 3rd round (assuming there's no other comps in that round) ?

Dutchrudder
02-04-2013, 10:41 AM
Comp pics come at the end of the round, right ? For example, if we'd get a third-round comp for Mario, we'd get the 33rd pic of the 3rd round (assuming there's no other comps in that round) ?

Yep, it's just that the order of those picks can vary depending on how many others there are. Usually there are quite a few 5/6/7th round comp picks, and the order of those depends on the rating given by the secret formula. The dumb thing is, if we end up with a 5th, 6th, and 7th, we won't know for certain which player generated which pick. Only way to know for sure is if they are all the same round. Seems really dumb to me that the NFL protects this formula and the results like it's the recipe for Coke. It's really not that significant, and it should be made public to GMs and fans.

76Texan
02-04-2013, 10:47 AM
Well, the Raiders lost Aso and got the third rounder, so I think it's safe to say that we'll also get a third.

The Raiders also got the first comp pick in the 4th and they took my dark horse Miles Burris, LB.

He started 15 games for them, recording 2 sacks, 1 Int, and 96 tackles.

badboy
02-04-2013, 04:00 PM
I need some confirmation.
As I understand it, each FA we signed cancels out one that we lost.

Lost:
Mario
Allen
Brisiel
Dreessen

Signed:
James
Donnie Jones.

It looks to me like we will only get two comp pick:
A third for Mario and a sixth for Allen (due to the value of the contract they signed with the new teams.)

Did I miss something ?IIRC the timing of when the player is signed effects it. Phillips stated in Chronicle that he told James he would sign him after cut off date so it would not cancel a comp. Not sure about Jones but may have been same.

Dutchrudder
02-04-2013, 05:26 PM
Frrom the OP guys...

2012 salaries are as follows:
Shayne Graham: 2012: $925,000
Bradie James: 2012: $825,000
Donnie Jones: 2012: $825,000
Alan Ball: 6/2/2012: Signed an undisclosed contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Justin Forsett: 6/2/2012: Signed a one-year contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Ryan Harris: 9/1/2012: Signed a one-year, $700,000 contract.

All of the above are minimum or ineligible deals and do not affect our comp picks. If you have a specific player to ask about, let me know and I can look it up real quick.

76Texan
02-04-2013, 05:31 PM
Frrom the OP guys...

2012 salaries are as follows:
Shayne Graham: 2012: $925,000
Bradie James: 2012: $825,000
Donnie Jones: 2012: $825,000
Alan Ball: 6/2/2012: Signed an undisclosed contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Justin Forsett: 6/2/2012: Signed a one-year contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Ryan Harris: 9/1/2012: Signed a one-year, $700,000 contract.

All of the above are minimum or ineligible deals and do not affect our comp picks. If you have a specific player to ask about, let me know and I can look it up real quick.

Good.

Lucky
02-04-2013, 09:40 PM
The Raiders also got the first comp pick in the 4th and they took my dark horse Miles Burris, LB.
The Raiders received that pick for losing TE Zach Miller (5 years, $34 million) to the Seahawks.

76Texan
02-05-2013, 04:06 PM
Dutch, can we have an update on this.

Let's start with all the active contracts (not counting the recent future/reserve contracts for guys like Keenum).

Let's assume we don't cut any of these guys. How many do we have and what are their cap spaces for 2013?

mussop
03-01-2013, 10:18 PM
What would be the savings for cutting OD.

badboy
03-02-2013, 04:29 PM
What would be the savings for cutting OD.
Base" $4 m; prorated signing bonus: $750 K; misc bonus $1 m; Dead money: $3.5 m; cap hit: $5. 75 m; total saving if cut $5.75 - $3.5 = $2 m

* not sure if the miscellaneous bonus is one that is based on certain criteria & could be eliminated if he is cut.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/

Corrosion
03-02-2013, 09:58 PM
What would be the savings for cutting OD.

Probably not enough to replace him with an equal or more productive player.

I think its safe to say the same thing about Walter who would only save ~$2m if cut.


The way I look at those situations is: Can you replace them with an equal or greater piece with the savings against the cap. If you cant , its probably not a wise cut.