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View Full Version : Why the offense bogged down against the Pats


76Texan
12-13-2012, 10:29 AM
Here's a quick run down.

First half:

Our first drive was stopped when Jean couldn't pull in a 35 some yard pass attempt along the right sideline. It was not an easy catch to made, but the ball was right there, in his hands.

...

Our second drive was stopped because Schaub threw that stupid INT instead of dumping the ball off to a wide-open Foster underneath.

...

Our third drive was stopped when Schaub's pass was batted down at the line.
He was going to Walter on an out-route that should be enough for a first down on the right side.

...

Our fourth drive was stopped when Willfork batted down another short pass attempt to Jean in the middle.

...

Our fifth drive was stopped for two reasons:

1. On third down, Jean didn't adjust his route and caught the ball for only 7 yards when needed 12.
(maybe it was what he was supposed to do - I'm just guessing that he has the leeway to do it here.)

He was running a 5-yd quick hitch or quick in.
There was nobody in the middle of the field;
if he had continue on as if he was running a quick in,
he would have plenty of room to run;
instead, the CB came up and tackled him 5yd short of the first-down marker.

2. On fourth down, Walter dropped a ball on the left side that would have gained at least 7-8 yards, more than enough for a first down.

...

Our 6th drive was stopped when either Myers or Foster failed to pick up the blitz; Schaub had to throw the ball away.
He was going with Walter who was open on another quick out to the left.

...

Our 7th drive was stopped because Schaub had to hurry the throw; the ball was just a hair too high for Jean. He barely touched the ball when the safety came up and gave him a big blow in the back. Harris had lost his battle and allowed his man to zero in on Schaub, who was hit pretty hard on that play.

That's the end of the half.

Vinny
12-13-2012, 10:29 AM
quicker run down: Out-schemed, out-coached and out-quarterbacked.

76Texan
12-13-2012, 10:31 AM
In the second half.

Our first drive was stopped on 3rd and 9 when the CB made a good tackle to stop AJ one yard short of the first down marker.

The pocket was being pushed hard, and there was nobody else open anyway.

...

Foster scored a rushing TD on the next drive.

...

On our next drive (3rd and 3) the CB Arrington jumped on KMart, but no flag was thrown. That should have been a first down right there, either with the catch or the penalty.

...

Our next drive was in the fourth quarter, trailing 7-35
Tate ran for 10, and then 8.
On 2nd and 2, Tate gained just one (OD & Harris were the main reasons.)
On third and 1, he got stopped.
Myers was pretty weak, but Tate could have cut to the right instead of going left;
he needed less than a yard.

It is true that the run was designed for him to follow Casey's lead block,
but the defense was flowing hard to playside.

...

The Pats then went up 42-7, and we pulled the starters.

buddyboy
12-13-2012, 10:34 AM
quicker run down: Out-schemed, out-coached and out-quarterbacked.

Odd, I didn't see Brady out there on defense bogging down our offense.

Vinny
12-13-2012, 10:36 AM
Odd, I didn't see Brady out there on defense bogging down our offense. snide comment...congrats.

Our quarterbacking wasn't up to par to win. Call it what you want.

76Texan
12-13-2012, 10:38 AM
More like out-played.

And Schaub should been practicing against brooms or something.

Double Barrel
12-13-2012, 10:47 AM
Odd, I didn't see Brady out there on defense bogging down our offense.

You don't think that 21 point lead that Brady gave his defense helped?

It's a no-brainer.

Señor Stan
12-13-2012, 10:50 AM
You don't think that 21 point lead that Brady gave his defense helped?

It's a no-brainer.

Alot like in baseball when a team scores 5 runs in the 1st inning...totally changes how their pitcher approaches the other team.

qqert
12-13-2012, 10:53 AM
You don't think that 21 point lead that Brady gave his defense helped?

It's a no-brainer.

yup, their defense was on the bench most of the time.
our offense kept going 3 and out, of course our D is going to get tired and run over some more.

Vinny
12-13-2012, 10:54 AM
You don't think that 21 point lead that Brady gave his defense helped?

It's a no-brainer.Brady also has a nice demeanor for a QB. Less Gomer Pyle and more Sgt Carter.

Double Barrel
12-13-2012, 11:10 AM
Alot like in baseball when a team scores 5 runs in the 1st inning...totally changes how their pitcher approaches the other team.

Straight up truth! Playing with a three score lead from the beginning of the game completely changes how a defense can scheme. You know the other team is going to have to start dropping back more at some point, so you can pin your ears back in a pass rush accordingly.

Obviously, the Texans were a bit different, because they like to run twice for a loss to set up 3rd and long, so our offense wasn't putting up much of a fight.

yup, their defense was on the bench most of the time.
our offense kept going 3 and out, of course our D is going to get tired and run over some more.

Great point! A defense's biggest ally is having an offense that chews up the clock. Our D was on it's heals for the first several drives. They were winded by the half.

Brady also has a nice demeanor for a QB. Less Gomer Pyle and more Sgt Carter.

lol! Yeah, no deer in the headlights with Brady. Dude is pure predator.

My wife commented during the game that how could Tom Brady not be married to a super model. He exudes confidence and a take no prisoner attitude.

Meanwhile, back to the kids on the yellow bus...

Rey
12-13-2012, 11:49 AM
yup, their defense was on the bench most of the time.
our offense kept going 3 and out, of course our D is going to get tired and run over some more.

Our offense didn't score a point until the third quarter.

The only other points scored were by the second stringers in garbage time.

Our starting offense only managed 7 points.


Defense has it's problems for sure. But if you'd have told me before the game that our offense would only score 7 points not until the third quarter, I would have guessed that we'd have gotten blown out just like we did.

You give Brady that many opportunities against a banged up defense with warts and he's going to feast.

This was a game that we all knew going in that our offense would have to step up. We knew it, the team knew it, the patriots knew it, my dogs knew it because I told them.

And what do they do?

Have their worst performance they've had in forever.

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 11:53 AM
Here's a quick run down.

First half:

Our first drive was stopped when Jean couldn't pull in a 35 some yard pass attempt along the right sideline. It was not an easy catch to made, but the ball was right there, in his hands.

...


I think the real "fail" on that play is that Andre & OD get tangled up at the line. They didn't release on time forcing Schaub to go elsewhere. That would have been an easy pick up if Andre & OD didn't screw that one up.

dalemurphy
12-13-2012, 12:36 PM
I'm not worried. We got wooped. That being said, I didn't learn anything new. I already new Brady is one of the best ever. I knew that Belichek is a great coach and that our margin for error in New England was very small.

The biggest issue the team has, IMO, is our heavy reliance of man coverage, even when it doesn't make sense (GreenBay, NE)... If this doesn't change, it means our defensive players will have to make plays when they have an opportunity when we play New England, Green Bay, NYG, and probably Denver... We're still in a great position. I'll be worried if we lose this Sunday.

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 12:58 PM
The biggest issue the team has, IMO, is our heavy reliance of man coverage, even when it doesn't make sense (GreenBay, NE)... If this doesn't change, it means our defensive players will have to make plays when they have an opportunity when we play New England, Green Bay, NYG, and probably Denver... We're still in a great position. I'll be worried if we lose this Sunday.

I think this is getting blown out of proportion. There were 5 possessions where we stopped the Patriots. Four of them were 3 & outs. That's using the same philosophy that we used all game. Our biggest issues was not being able to find Welker, Hernandez, & Woodhead until it was too late. The most obvious was when Hernandez was left uncovered...

That's basically what happened the first three possessions.

I feel pretty good that's not going to happen to us again. Not by the Colts, not by the Vikings, & not by any team we see in the play-offs, including the Patriots.

Offensively, we got bullied. We shot ourselves in the foot too many times & by the time we adjusted, the a$s-whupan was out of the can & they pretty much put a skirt on us.

HOU-TEX
12-13-2012, 01:07 PM
To me, everything hinges off the play in the trenches on both sides of the ball. We stunk on both sides!

Poor trench play spinkled with below average QB performance and a coaching staff caught with their pants down = Pure beatdown

*side note* I like Barwin, but boy, I'm happy we never came to a contract agreement with him. Dude is literally losing millions as the games go by.

Vinny
12-13-2012, 01:09 PM
To me, everything hinges off the play in the trenches on both sides of the ball. We stunk on both sides!

Poor trench play spinkled with below average QB performance and a coaching staff caught with their pants down = Pure beatdown

*side note* I like Barwin, but boy, I'm happy we never came to a contract agreement with him. Dude is literally losing millions as the games go by.
I thought the d-line play was good...linebacker play was awful.

HOU-TEX
12-13-2012, 01:13 PM
I thought the d-line play was good...linebacker play was awful.

Yeah, I always catch myself lumping our OLBs in with our Dline.

It's funny (actually not) that our LB corps was once one of our biggest strengths. Now, they pretty much stink

76Texan
12-13-2012, 01:23 PM
We just have too many breakdowns in coverage (and that includes the LBs)

This is where we're supposed to be better than the Pats.

And we blowed big time.

76Texan
12-13-2012, 01:25 PM
When you play against great QBs, you can't afford to make hardly any mistakes; we did the exact opposite.

DX-TEX
12-13-2012, 01:31 PM
When you play against great QBs, you can't afford to make hardly any mistakes; we did the exact opposite.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24733313.jpg

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 01:34 PM
When you play against great QBs, you can't afford to make hardly any mistakes; we did the exact opposite.

Wes Welker dropped a lot of balls. What do you attribute that to?

76Texan
12-13-2012, 02:16 PM
Wes Welker dropped a lot of balls. What do you attribute that to?

Well, that was the match-up that I wanted.

Jackson gave up the first catch to Welker (damn good move on his part).

Second pass is an incompletion in KJ'a area.

Brady's pass was a little too far off for Welkr to catch.
And you know why? Because he knew KJax can close and will knock the snot out of Welker.

Jackson broke up another pass.

And he knocked the snot out of Welker on another attempt, jarring the ball loose.

Hell, Jackson even knocked the snot out of Hernandez on one pas play.

I am sure Brady and the Pats were aware of this.

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 02:21 PM
Hell, Jackson even knocked the snot out of Hernandez on one pas play.


I saw that, then he talked a little smack as Hernandez was getting up. I thought, "That boy's definitely got his confidence going."

Hernandez is huuuuuuge compared to Jackson.

buddyboy
12-13-2012, 02:21 PM
You don't think that 21 point lead that Brady gave his defense helped?

It's a no-brainer.

I completely agree that our offense bogged down because they were playing catch-up. To say simply that our offense bogged down because their quarterback is better than ours is not accurate. Eventually, you'll get there, so I guess I'll concede that.

76Texan
12-13-2012, 02:27 PM
I saw that, then he talked a little smack as Hernandez was getting up. I thought, "That boy's definitely got his confidence going."

Hernandez is huuuuuuge compared to Jackson.

Don't you just love that?

I know I do.

badboy
12-13-2012, 02:29 PM
I did not expect our defense to shut down Brady, but I did expect our offense to score frequently against their defensive backs. IMO, Kubiak should have gotten his offense under control but seemed to have no clue. If Matt look star struck, bring him out a series then send him back in.

Goatcheese
12-13-2012, 02:30 PM
*tap* *tap *tap*

We didn't execute.

*tap* *tap* *tap*

:evil:

76Texan
12-13-2012, 02:31 PM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24733313.jpg

I really hope so, man.
I really hope so.

The1ApplePie
12-13-2012, 02:42 PM
Everyone has been saying it for years, but the Texans really need another weapon at WR opposite AJ.

Hopefully the need for QBs by other teams will let an elite WR slip down in the draft

Mr teX
12-13-2012, 02:56 PM
It bogged down b/c we couldn't run the ball...its just as simple as that. once Wilfork started blowing up Myers, Mayo started shooting gaps & Ninkovich started crashing down hard... it was over. That kills the play action & it kills our play selection when we're in 3rd and long all the time. It is the exact gameplan GB used against us.

The only difference is GB moved Matthews all over the place to create all the havoc & Hawk was the guy shooting gaps.

I'll tell you something else too...I think this highlights how bad we miss Tate in the backfield as well. Foster's greatest attribute (patience) is also his greatest weakness at times b/c he waits too long in the backfield trying to wait for something to open up. Tate is the direct opposite...He sees a sliver of light & he hits it fast..sometimes to his detriment.

There were a few runs in the 3rd where Tate seemed to be gashing them b/c he was hitting the hole so fast Wilfork couldn't locate him & Ninkovich couldn't crash down fast enough. I think this is also the main reason our run game has been pretty much trash this year...Tate's been out & he balances out Foster's patient runs with quick burst runs.

Scooter
12-13-2012, 03:03 PM
i put the game more on wilfork than i do brady. to use gruden's phrase, wilfork simply "ruined the game" for us. we couldnt stop him in the run game, couldnt stop his pass rush, and couldnt keep his hands down. he went all jj watt on us. without wilfork this game looks exactly as predicted, with both teams scoring 20+.

76Texan
12-13-2012, 03:15 PM
It bogged down b/c we couldn't run the ball...its just as simple as that. once Wilfork started blowing up Myers, Mayo started shooting gaps & Ninkovich started crashing down hard... it was over. That kills the play action & it kills our play selection when we're in 3rd and long all the time. It is the exact gameplan GB used against us.

The only difference is GB moved Matthews all over the place to create all the havoc & Hawk was the guy shooting gaps.

I'll tell you something else too...I think this highlights how bad we miss Tate in the backfield as well. Foster's greatest attribute (patience) is also his greatest weakness at times b/c he waits too long in the backfield trying to wait for something to open up. Tate is the direct opposite...He sees a sliver of light & he hits it fast..sometimes to his detriment.

There were a few runs in the 3rd where Tate seemed to be gashing them b/c he was hitting the hole so fast Wilfork couldn't locate him & Ninkovich couldn't crash down fast enough. I think this is also the main reason our run game has been pretty much trash this year...Tate's been out & he balances out Foster's patient runs with quick burst runs.
Do you know that the only real run Tate had was a 23-ydr when he had a huge hole (Almost from the numbers to the hash marks.)

Not to talk him down, but even a water buffalo or a hippo can go through that monstrous opening for a huge gain.

76Texan
12-13-2012, 03:17 PM
i put the game more on wilfork than i do brady. to use gruden's phrase, wilfork simply "ruined the game" for us. we couldnt stop him in the run game, couldnt stop his pass rush, and couldnt keep his hands down. he went all jj watt on us. without wilfork this game looks exactly as predicted, with both teams scoring 20+.

That was why I said Kubiak put too much on Ben Jones' plate.

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 04:33 PM
I did not expect our defense to shut down Brady, but I did expect our offense to score frequently against their defensive backs. IMO, Kubiak should have gotten his offense under control but seemed to have no clue. If Matt look star struck, bring him out a series then send him back in.

I can get behind that. Looks like Wade was able to get his boys under control & into the game. They played excellent football from 11 minutes remaining in the 2nd Qtr until they were taken out of the game.

Kubiak couldn't get his side centered. Even Special teams outplayed the offense.

Maybe it wasn't wade, maybe it was Kollar, Herring, & Joseph that got it together, but still all three groups, you've got to believe the DC is doing his thang.

The OL never got it together, they actually got worse as the game went on. Sure, the 21 point lead had something to do with it. Matt & the receivers never got on the same page. Ben Tate did look good though.

I'd like to blame Dennison, but I've been giving Kubiak the credit when the offense does well, so...

:whistles:

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 04:38 PM
It bogged down b/c we couldn't run the ball...its just as simple as that. once Wilfork started blowing up Myers, Mayo started shooting gaps & Ninkovich started crashing down hard... it was over. That kills the play action & it kills our play selection when we're in 3rd and long all the time. It is the exact gameplan GB used against us.


But we're the most balanced team in the NFL.... next to the Patriots.

Matt was finding open receivers, they just couldn't catch the ball (for one reason or another). Those completions should have been enough to extend drives & get us scores.

Though Brady was getting the job done, he was taking a beating worse than Matt & they couldn't run effectively early either.

Not blaming Kubiak (because I had the same game plan) but the Patriots came out early wanting to up the tempo, that's their game. We wanted to slow it down, that's our game. & really if it weren't for two ticky-tack PI calls, I think it was a good plan.

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 05:11 PM
i put the game more on wilfork than i do brady. to use gruden's phrase, wilfork simply "ruined the game" for us. we couldnt stop him in the run game, couldnt stop his pass rush, and couldnt keep his hands down. he went all jj watt on us. without wilfork this game looks exactly as predicted, with both teams scoring 20+.

Without a doubt, I said that earlier, they out-Texaned us. Pretty much the way we out-Beared the Bears.

Pretty funny when you think about it.

Because we were worried about the Bears forcing turnovers, we practiced forcing turnovers. The Bears didn't force one, we did.

Because the Patriots were concerned about Jj Watt, their defense prepared for Jj Watt. They penetrated our OL & batted a few balls down as well. We didn't bat one ball down.

ironic

Another big difference though Wilfork didn't get a sack, his play allowed the rest of his line to get into our back-field & raise havok

Rey
12-13-2012, 06:21 PM
It's about to be Friday and we're still talking about this game...lol...

amazing80
12-13-2012, 06:29 PM
While the defense did struggle badly in the first half, they seemed to settle down before halftime and even came out strong in the 2nd half. The offense was terrible and couldn't stay on the field, thus they got tired and when you're tired, chasing around a no huddle offense vs the GOAT in Brady, well you're doomed.

Everlong
12-13-2012, 06:37 PM
Welker takes a ton of big hits nearly every week and often get planted by LBs. Pound for pound one of the toughest guys in the league. I'm not sure why Brady and Welker were off but it wasn't because Welker was intimidated. The hit on Hernandez was a nice pop. Really both teams brought the lumber.

Wilfork doesn't get nearly enough pub nationally for how good he is. What you saw was how he plays every week.

As far as why the offense bogged down I said before the game in one of the threads here how Kubiak approached attacking the Patriots was going to be clutch. If he came out and tried to establish the run to set up the pass the Texans would struggle. Conversely if they game out and mixed the Pats up with play action on early down they would have a much higher degree of success. Kubiak went the direction of what he always does and the Pats were very prepared for it.

Wolf
12-13-2012, 06:43 PM
I haven't watched wilfolk much but one of my random thoughts during the game was that he was playing with a chip on his shoulder and was tired of hearing about Watt

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 06:53 PM
As far as why the offense bogged down I said before the game in one of the threads here how Kubiak approached attacking the Patriots was going to be clutch. If he came out and tried to establish the run to set up the pass the Texans would struggle. Conversely if they game out and mixed the Pats up with play action on early down they would have a much higher degree of success. Kubiak went the direction of what he always does and the Pats were very prepared for it.

I do remember you saying that.

Wolf
12-13-2012, 07:02 PM
I am hoping (a big one at that) is that in the second hall. Kubiak was running plays to see how the Patriots was going to attack the formations. I realize not having graham hurt the two TE set,but middle of the third my other random thought was that hopefully Kubiak was not opening the offense up as to not let the Pats get more game film to study if we were to meet up again in a little over a month.

Maybe my irrational thought is the reason I didn't get upset during the game or have been nonchalant about the loss.

Maybe I am blinded by homer glasses too. Time will well

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 07:05 PM
I am hoping (a big one at that) is that in the second hall. Kubiak was running plays to see how the Patriots was going to attack the formations. I realize not having graham hurt the two TE set,but middle of the third my other random thought was that hopefully Kubiak was not opening the offense up as to not let the Pats get more game film to study if we were to meet up again in a little over a month.

Maybe my irrational thought is the reason I didn't get upset during the game or have been nonchalant about the loss.

Maybe I am blinded by homer glasses too. Time will well

Being that Belichick has been there & done that, I can see him doing something like this. Kubiak.... I don't think he has the gnads to even try it.

He wasn't sharp enough to do it in the preseason against the Saints when the game was meaningless last year, doubt he'd do it when we still need every win we can get. We haven't even won our division.

Everlong
12-13-2012, 07:10 PM
I haven't watched wilfolk much but one of my random thoughts during the game was that he was playing with a chip on his shoulder and was tired of hearing about Watt

I have a feeling Belichick may have brought it up during the week once or twice.....per hour.

run-david-run
12-14-2012, 05:26 PM
I think if our offense played our defense every series, we would look like we did against the Pats. It's a bit ironic, but our defense does everything that gives our offense problems, and now we're getting our own medicine.

From what we've been doing most of the season, this offense to me seems to be built on destroying zone defenses. From the play action that opens the middle of the field by attacking the line backer drops to the route designs that attack zones by having multiple receivers in the same are of the field but at different depths.

However, there is a lot of truth the old football cliche of taking what the defense gives you. When you run into a defensive coordinator with enough faith in his guys to man up on us, even when he has inferior talent, we allow ourselves to run into brick walls over and over again.

When teams play aggressive 8 man fronts against us, they take away the run, full stop. I think one of the big problems of the zone blocking scheme, particularly the stretch, is that it develops slower, and it just becomes a numbers game. Unless you blow the other team off the line or the backside is so undisciplined Arian hits a big cutback lane, we're not going anywhere.


This is all schematic problems. Now we get to talent. Andre Johnson is my favorite player of all time. He's still a very good player and he's a warrior, but he's just not what he used to be physically. We can argue stats and eye ball tests and medical discussions of expected recovery and peak performance loss all day, but in the end, no one would have maned up with no safety help on us 3 years ago. It just didn't happen.

Belichick, being the evil genius that he was, gambled on that. We didn't throw deep to AJ once, that I remember.

There's a second problem. I'm more pro than anti Schaub, but I can admit he has several flaws. His biggest strength is reading coverage and making the best decision within a play. This is huge against zone or zone blitz, as some routes are dead from the start of the play and some are wide open.
Much of this goes out the window against man coverage. It's up to the wide receiver to win, and it's up to Schaub to fit the ball into a much tighter window, which, unfortunately, is one thing he is frustratingly bad, or at least wildly inconsistent with: hitting people in stride or putting the ball on the inside/outside shoulder, depending on the coverage.

Topping it all off, we have a very inflexible offense. Just from watching our games and a bunch of others, I would argue we have more plays that are either brilliant or terrible before the ball is snapped. Kubiak does not take what the defense is giving him, he want to impose his will and his vision of the game on the defense. Unless you have superior talent/execution, that will lead to very inconsistent results. Sometimes you win big, sometimes you lose big (Schaub does do a good job of limiting these plays to sacks/throw aways instead of turnovers). That sound like our offense this season to anyone else?

And then, you run into someone like Belichick, who understands what you want to do, makes the right gambles in taking away your strengths and makes you adapt. We didn't adapt.

I still believe we have a team capable of winning the Super Bowl, but that's entirely dependent on Kubiak learning from his mistakes. We'll find out if he can soon enough.

drs23
12-14-2012, 05:52 PM
I think if our offense played our defense every series, we would look like we did against the Pats. It's a bit ironic, but our defense does everything that gives our offense problems, and now we're getting our own medicine.

From what we've been doing most of the season, this offense to me seems to be built on destroying zone defenses. From the play action that opens the middle of the field by attacking the line backer drops to the route designs that attack zones by having multiple receivers in the same are of the field but at different depths.

However, there is a lot of truth the old football cliche of taking what the defense gives you. When you run into a defensive coordinator with enough faith in his guys to man up on us, even when he has inferior talent, we allow ourselves to run into brick walls over and over again.

When teams play aggressive 8 man fronts against us, they take away the run, full stop. I think one of the big problems of the zone blocking scheme, particularly the stretch, is that it develops slower, and it just becomes a numbers game. Unless you blow the other team off the line or the backside is so undisciplined Arian hits a big cutback lane, we're not going anywhere.


This is all schematic problems. Now we get to talent. Andre Johnson is my favorite player of all time. He's still a very good player and he's a warrior, but he's just not what he used to be physically. We can argue stats and eye ball tests and medical discussions of expected recovery and peak performance loss all day, but in the end, no one would have maned up with no safety help on us 3 years ago. It just didn't happen.

Belichick, being the evil genius that he was, gambled on that. We didn't throw deep to AJ once, that I remember.

There's a second problem. I'm more pro than anti Schaub, but I can admit he has several flaws. His biggest strength is reading coverage and making the best decision within a play. This is huge against zone or zone blitz, as some routes are dead from the start of the play and some are wide open.
Much of this goes out the window against man coverage. It's up to the wide receiver to win, and it's up to Schaub to fit the ball into a much tighter window, which, unfortunately, is one thing he is frustratingly bad, or at least wildly inconsistent with: hitting people in stride or putting the ball on the inside/outside shoulder, depending on the coverage.

Topping it all off, we have a very inflexible offense. Just from watching our games and a bunch of others, I would argue we have more plays that are either brilliant or terrible before the ball is snapped. Kubiak does not take what the defense is giving him, he want to impose his will and his vision of the game on the defense. Unless you have superior talent/execution, that will lead to very inconsistent results. Sometimes you win big, sometimes you lose big (Schaub does do a good job of limiting these plays to sacks/throw aways instead of turnovers). That sound like our offense this season to anyone else?

And then, you run into someone like Belichick, who understands what you want to do, makes the right gambles in taking away your strengths and makes you adapt. We didn't adapt.

I still believe we have a team capable of winning the Super Bowl, but that's entirely dependent on Kubiak learning from his mistakes. We'll find out if he can soon enough.

:goodpost:

And spot on.

rep

run-david-run
12-14-2012, 07:24 PM
To add to what I posted earlier, I also think our offense is a victim of the (previous) defensive success. When our D was shutting people down ( I know, it seems like years ago), it made sense to play the game Kubiak did: run the ball, take the occasional shot, and if it doesn't work run a draw and third down, let the D dominate, and do it all over again.

We went out of our way to water down the offense, ensuring fewer turnovers and fewer bad things in general, relying on the overall balance of our team to grind the opposition into submission. Obivously, we're 11-2, it's worked. However, when one or both sides aren't pulling the ball, which happened very quickly in both losses, it all goes out the window.

A lot is made of the old "learning how to win" thing with young teams. We went through plenty of that, letting bad teams beat us in the 4th quarter. We learned how to close those games out. We basically learned how to be consistent and use one unit to help the other (running the ball to chew up clock, for instance).

But I think we evolved differently from the way most good teams develop. Most good young teams have flashes of brilliance, raising their games to beat an established power, only to sink back down in a classic trap game (Giants being the most obvious example).

Injuries aside, I don't think we've lost a game we "should" have won in two years. (Oakland game maybe, but without AJ, Mario and Al's ghost on the sidelines, we'll call it even). We have learned to beat the teams we should beat, better yet, we've learned not to beat ourselves. Out entire gameplan is built around it, on offense at least.


What we have yet to learn is how to beat the good teams when they don't beat themselves. It's the next step in the process to being a dominant team. We're obviously not there yet and we may never get there as players age and the cap hits take their toll. What worries me is that it requires a fundamental shift in approach. We have to be both more aggressive in going after the win and more flexible in our play calling. When you play good teams, some things just aren't going to work. I don't know if Kubiak has a new chapter to write. He's slowly and incrementally improved as a coach from bellow average to play off winner to what ever the hell we are now.

But there's another step to go, and I'm starting to doubt we'll make it this season. Here's to being wrong.

Texan_Bill
12-14-2012, 07:40 PM
Here's a quick run down.

First half:

Our first drive was stopped when Jean couldn't pull in a 35 some yard pass attempt along the right sideline. It was not an easy catch to made, but the ball was right there, in his hands.

...

Our second drive was stopped because Schaub threw that stupid INT instead of dumping the ball off to a wide-open Foster underneath.

...

Our third drive was stopped when Schaub's pass was batted down at the line.
He was going to Walter on an out-route that should be enough for a first down on the right side.

...

Our fourth drive was stopped when Willfork batted down another short pass attempt to Jean in the middle.

...

Our fifth drive was stopped for two reasons:

1. On third down, Jean didn't adjust his route and caught the ball for only 7 yards when needed 12.
(maybe it was what he was supposed to do - I'm just guessing that he has the leeway to do it here.)

He was running a 5-yd quick hitch or quick in.
There was nobody in the middle of the field;
if he had continue on as if he was running a quick in,
he would have plenty of room to run;
instead, the CB came up and tackled him 5yd short of the first-down marker.

2. On fourth down, Walter dropped a ball on the left side that would have gained at least 7-8 yards, more than enough for a first down.

...

Our 6th drive was stopped when either Myers or Foster failed to pick up the blitz; Schaub had to throw the ball away.
He was going with Walter who was open on another quick out to the left.

...

Our 7th drive was stopped because Schaub had to hurry the throw; the ball was just a hair too high for Jean. He barely touched the ball when the safety came up and gave him a big blow in the back. Harris had lost his battle and allowed his man to zero in on Schaub, who was hit pretty hard on that play.

That's the end of the half.



WRONG!!!

Our first drive bogged down whenever Arian Foster ran for about 12 yards on the first play of the game, which sadly was brought back by a holding penalty..... Subsequently brought up 1st and really long...........

That series pretty much set the outline of that night.

And later:


AND, yes many of us could see us getting back into the game..

But couldn't make any plays...

This is where the Texans failed!!!

thunderkyss
12-14-2012, 07:41 PM
To add to what I posted earlier,

I liked this post much better than your first one. I think this one is closer to being on the right track. We had been talking the few weeks before the Boston Massacre, how our offense was able to turn it on & help our struggling D.

But we've been seeing the same issue all year long. Our offense can't "turn it on" when they want to. Sure we've been able to score a lot of points. Sure we've won 11 games. But we haven't been able to convert 3rd downs when we needed to, instead we've had to punt & put it in the hands of our defense.

That's fine when the defense is doing it's thing, but when we're trying to get our offense to bail our D out.... not so much.

Last year, after we secured a healthy lead, we were able to run the ball, stay on schedule, convert 3rd downs & score, even if it was just field goals.

I think getting Newton back is going to help us. But getting Schaub back to 2009 form would make us unstoppable.

76Texan
12-14-2012, 07:59 PM
Obviously, we all want the offense to be more consistent.

But before going overboard, why don't you guys check out the Pats 2010 season when they went 14-2.

They had 4 games where they didn't gain 300 yards, and another game where they managed just 179 yards. They scored just 14 points twice.

Texan_Bill
12-14-2012, 07:59 PM
All of the BS upstream.....

Here is what happens.....

A) The Texans kill the Colts by 20
B) The Texans Kill the Vikings by 14
C) V. The Colts, Again.......... Who cares at this point TJ Yates goes for about 2fifty(ish) and forsett rushes for about 120(ish)

D) Final week?


Meh.........

The Patriots at our house............





Bring it on!!!!

**** a bunch of what happened on MNF!!!
Bring it on!!!!

beerlover
12-15-2012, 03:12 AM
short & sweet - Patriots played more physical & got away with it :bat:

TejasTom
12-15-2012, 05:01 AM
Quotes from Friday's practice.

Arian Foster
(on why the offense has struggled on third downs) “Because we haven’t executed, very simple.”

ObsiWan
12-15-2012, 09:27 AM
More like out-played.
^^^^
THIS

Their guys made plays when called upon.
Our guys didn't.

Don't matter what plays are called or who's calling them if the guys don't step up and make the damned plays.

ObsiWan
12-15-2012, 09:32 AM
You don't think that 21 point lead that Brady gave his defense helped?

It's a no-brainer.

There is no 21 pt play in football.
First we were only down 7.
Then only down 14...

We didn't make the plays that could have kept the game close. When you play Brady you need to match them score for score.
We couldn't.

Double Barrel
12-15-2012, 10:57 AM
There is no 21 pt play in football.

That's cute. I never even implied it.

Point being - FOOTBALL 101 - you help your defense when you keep their offense off the field. You help your defense by building a big lead so the opposing offense has to play catch up and gets desperate doing it.

A man of your age should already know these things to be true. :fingergun:

We didn't make the plays that could have kept the game close. When you play Brady you need to match them score for score.
We couldn't.

Conversely, the Patriots made the plays on both offense and defense that added up to a dominating performance. They took away our primary weapons on both sides of the ball and the rest of the team failed to step up and produce in that void.

thunderkyss
12-15-2012, 12:16 PM
That's cute. I never even implied it.

Point being - FOOTBALL 101 - you help your defense when you keep their offense off the field. You help your defense by building a big lead so the opposing offense has to play catch up and gets desperate doing it.

A man of your age should already know these things to be true. :fingergun:



Conversely, the Patriots made the plays on both offense and defense that added up to a dominating performance. They took away our primary weapons on both sides of the ball and the rest of the team failed to step up and produce in that void.

I think what he is saying they had opportunities to score before going down by 21. After the Patriots' first score we had a nice drive to get into scoring position, but turned it over. We threw an INT in the freak'n end zone. That's ok... no one expected us to score on every possession. Schaub is not elite, he's not clutch, we don't have the offensive weapons to score at will (Like a Pro Bowl QB, or arguably the best WR in the AFC, or arguably the best RB in the AFC, or arguably the best LT in the league)...

The Patriots score again, go up by 14. We absolutely, positively need to score here. At the very least, the one thing we cannot do, under any circumstance, is go 3 & out. Not after the defense was just used to mop up the field. But we do, we go 3 & out. That's exactly what we do. Defense is back on the field.

Defense is back on the field, still can't stop squat, the Patriots go up 21-0... now, our offense needs to score.

But don't.

Now, if by some sort of magic, the defense changes & becomes something capable of shutting the Patriots down from here on out, that won't change the fact that they've given up 21 points. The only they can do, is hope the offense figures out it's dilemma and put some points on the board.

Despite the Patriots getting 3 more possessions in the half (they shouldn't get but 4 possessions in the entire half, not a single qtr), they don't score. The defense delivers 3 back to back to back 3 & outs. The closest the offense got to scoring would have been a 51 yard field goal.

Patriots get the ball to start the 3rd Qtr..... they are allowed to gain 15 yards, then forced to punt. Our defense dominated the Patriots offense on their last 4 possessions.

If our offense scores here, we have a chance. Practically two qtrs to go we cut the lead to 14, we can still run our offense. No need to panic, no need to get desperate, all the offense has to do, is score a TD.

But that's not what happened. We went 3 & out. Now like I said, no one expected our offense to score on every possession. Just like no one expected them not to score on any of them. At this point, we're talking about 8 possessions. If we were to have scored on just half of them, that's 32 points. We'd be in the lead at this point.

But maybe it's a little to much to expect the 10th best QB in the league, the best LT in the league, the best WR in the AFC, the best RB in the AFC & a true offensive genius to score on half of their possessions. How about 40% of their possessions (or 3 of 8)? Would that be too much? That would have been 21 points, a tie game. That would have matched what the Patriots did in 8 possessions.

I understand the Patriots had a 21 point lead. But that alone is no reason to panic, that is no reason to be desperate, in fact, that is no reason to change your approach. Our 8th possession started with 13 minutes left in the third Qtr. If we had scored on 3 of our 8 possessions, we'd have a tie game with 13 minutes remaining in the 3rd Qtr & the entire 4th qtr yet to play.

It would be wrong to lay the Lions' share of this loss on Wade & the defense. At least they made an adjustment. At least they punched back.

steelbtexan
12-15-2012, 12:21 PM
quicker run down: Out-schemed, out-coached and out-quarterbacked.

^^^^
This

Running up the middle with Wilfork there was just plain stupid and hard headed. Anybody get the feeing that Gary chokes in big games? Other than the playoffs last yr I cant remember Gary/Matt winning a big game under the bright lights.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 12:45 PM
^^^^
This

Running up the middle with Wilfork there was just plain stupid and hard headed. Anybody get the feeing that Gary chokes in big games? Other than the playoffs last yr I cant remember Gary/Matt winning a big game under the bright lights.

We didn't really run at Wilfork.

When we did, we had a double team/combo block of that nature.

He blew up a few plays when we ran away from him.
The outside zone run was bogged down by one reason of another, from D. Brown, to Wade Smith, to Harris, Gardner, O.D., to Casey, or B Jones. On the back side.

I mean, we got outplayed at a certain key area on a lot of plays.

Vinny
12-15-2012, 01:50 PM
^^^^
This

Running up the middle with Wilfork there was just plain stupid and hard headed. Anybody get the feeing that Gary chokes in big games? Other than the playoffs last yr I cant remember Gary/Matt winning a big game under the bright lights.
Personally, I think Kubiak and Wade both were out-coached last week. Wilfork dominated the middle of the field and Kubiak has a slow, plodding offense with zone linemen that aren't good at 7-step drop protections. Once the Patriots shut down the run, they forced us to beat them with our passing attack. This team may pass well off the run/boot game...but it isn't a good drop back passing unit without trickery.

ObsiWan
12-15-2012, 01:51 PM
I think what he is saying they had opportunities to score before going down by 21. After the Patriots' first score we had a nice drive to get into scoring position, but turned it over. We threw an INT in the freak'n end zone. That's ok... no one expected us to score on every possession. Schaub is not elite, he's not clutch, we don't have the offensive weapons to score at will (Like a Pro Bowl QB, or arguably the best WR in the AFC, or arguably the best RB in the AFC, or arguably the best LT in the league)...

The Patriots score again, go up by 14. We absolutely, positively need to score here. At the very least, the one thing we cannot do, under any circumstance, is go 3 & out. Not after the defense was just used to mop up the field. But we do, we go 3 & out. That's exactly what we do. Defense is back on the field.

Defense is back on the field, still can't stop squat, the Patriots go up 21-0... now, our offense needs to score.

But don't.

Now, if by some sort of magic, the defense changes & becomes something capable of shutting the Patriots down from here on out, that won't change the fact that they've given up 21 points. The only they can do, is hope the offense figures out it's dilemma and put some points on the board.

Despite the Patriots getting 3 more possessions in the half (they shouldn't get but 4 possessions in the entire half, not a single qtr), they don't score. The defense delivers 3 back to back to back 3 & outs. The closest the offense got to scoring would have been a 51 yard field goal.

Patriots get the ball to start the 3rd Qtr..... they are allowed to gain 15 yards, then forced to punt. Our defense dominated the Patriots offense on their last 4 possessions.

If our offense scores here, we have a chance. Practically two qtrs to go we cut the lead to 14, we can still run our offense. No need to panic, no need to get desperate, all the offense has to do, is score a TD.

But that's not what happened. We went 3 & out. Now like I said, no one expected our offense to score on every possession. Just like no one expected them not to score on any of them. At this point, we're talking about 8 possessions. If we were to have scored on just half of them, that's 32 points. We'd be in the lead at this point.

But maybe it's a little to much to expect the 10th best QB in the league, the best LT in the league, the best WR in the AFC, the best RB in the AFC & a true offensive genius to score on half of their possessions. How about 40% of their possessions (or 3 of 8)? Would that be too much? That would have been 21 points, a tie game. That would have matched what the Patriots did in 8 possessions.

I understand the Patriots had a 21 point lead. But that alone is no reason to panic, that is no reason to be desperate, in fact, that is no reason to change your approach. Our 8th possession started with 13 minutes left in the third Qtr. If we had scored on 3 of our 8 possessions, we'd have a tie game with 13 minutes remaining in the 3rd Qtr & the entire 4th qtr yet to play.

It would be wrong to lay the Lions' share of this loss on Wade & the defense. At least they made an adjustment. At least they punched back.

I'm pretty sure DoubleBarrel knew that was where I was coming from. But to be fair, I was being a little snarky.
:shades:

The point still stands however; our offense had chances to make plays and answer each of the Patriot scores, as you pointed out, and then some.
They didn't.
It's really that simple. You guys can blame the coaches if you like. For me it will always come down to the guys in the Texans unis to make the plays.

run-david-run
12-15-2012, 04:20 PM
Personally, I think Kubiak and Wade both were out-coached last week. Wilfork dominated the middle of the field and Kubiak has a slow, plodding offense with zone linemen that aren't good at 7-step drop protections. Once the Patriots shut down the run, they forced us to beat them with our passing attack. This team may pass well off the run/boot game...but it isn't a good drop back passing unit without trickery.

I don't think this is true. We have shown an ability to drop back and throw the ball when needed (lions and Jags in particular, and plenty of times in previous years). But we were usually behind in the chains, behind on the scoreboard, and no one made a play. Walter dropped a 4th down catch, Jean gets brought down by an arm tackle on third down and drops the early big one....

We had a bad game plan. We should have expected them to take Foster away and passed early. But even worse, we just had bad execution, from the O line, to Schaub to his receivers.

thunderkyss
12-16-2012, 07:49 AM
I was on one of the Raven's boards, lurking. Thought I'd take a peak at their Texans@Patriots (http://russellstreetreport.com/forum/showthread.php?100854-Game-Thread-Texans-Patriots-(Keeping-an-Eye-on-the-Playoff-Competition)) game day thread. It was interesting to see their take on the game, without the obvious bias towards the Texans. They are biased against Bellichick thought. I thought it was interesting, figured maybe some of you would think the same.