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DocBar
12-12-2012, 11:02 PM
I haven't seen anyone post much about Foster's lackluster play, so I figured I'd bring up the subject.

It seems like he's succumbed to the big payday and just isn't performing up to his new contract. No one could bring down Foster with an ankle tackle for 2 years and now he can't seem to break one.

I know he's been run in a lot of short yardage situations, but he just doesn't to be the same back he was the last 2 years. WTF has happened?

Norg
12-12-2012, 11:07 PM
well it could be either 2 things

A

Hes not that good

or B

Leech Winston and Mike .B and Dreessen his blocking buddies.... are gone and now he cant do it without them


is there a option C ....????? LOL

DocBar
12-12-2012, 11:13 PM
well it could be either 2 things

A

Hes not that good

or B

Leech Winston and Mike .B and Dreessen his blocking buddies.... are gone and now he cant do it without them


is there a option C ....????? LOLOption B gets invalidated, somewhat, by Tate and Forsett doing pretty dang well. Foster is getting tripped up yards past the LOS as well as near or behind it.

stingray
12-12-2012, 11:16 PM
He doesn't look like the same back. I think he was averaging 3.9 a carry coming into the Patriots game. While tate and Forsett come into the game and look explosive as hell.

CretorFrigg
12-12-2012, 11:18 PM
He's a different back. That's for sure.

DocBar
12-12-2012, 11:21 PM
He's a different back. That's for sure.

But not in a good way so far this season.

wolf123
12-12-2012, 11:36 PM
Has not been running very hard. Looks to run out of bounds at the first sign of contact.:foottap:

GP
12-12-2012, 11:47 PM
Heh, well....I was one of only about three people calling attention to it from the beginning of the reg season.

I don't know if it's the diet, the new $$$, the lack of Winston and Brisiel, some sort of situation involving Tate....but he's shutting it down early in a lot of games.

He's also running more through the middle when his bread and butter is always the edge and then a cutback. Don't know if he's trying to prove (to himself?) that he can run anywhere ,even the middle, or what.

But it's been off all season. He might not have been a big fan of seeing Winston and Brisiel leave. Because he's not running as well, for sure.

PapaL
12-12-2012, 11:56 PM
Or he's getting used TOO much. Our run game is better when BOTH Foster and Tate get the ball. Too bad Tate's been in the dog house for being injured and Kubes isn't playing him. But hey good thing that 3rd down scat is delivering punishment to the D and softening them up for Arian huh?

DocBar
12-12-2012, 11:58 PM
Heh, well....I was one of only about three people calling attention to it from the beginning of the reg season.

I don't know if it's the diet, the new $$$, the lack of Winston and Brisiel, some sort of situation involving Tate....but he's shutting it down early in a lot of games.

He's also running more through the middle when his bread and butter is always the edge and then a cutback. Don't know if he's trying to prove (to himself?) that he can run anywhere ,even the middle, or what.

But it's been off all season. He might not have been a big fan of seeing Winston and Brisiel leave. Because he's not running as well, for sure.

He should just get a side as a first read and be able to cut where he sees the lane. inside or outside just depends on the lane he sees. That looks OK to me. It's the shoestring tackles that are killing him. If he breaks one shoestrng ankle tackle, he's gone for 15+ yards on a lot of carries. It seems like shying away from contact and trying to take whats there and keep himself healthy, to me. PFF has called him out for the last 1 1/2 years on their elusivity stat. He's not elusive. It's just that he's now going ultra turtle, like Schaub, if pressure is even moderately applied. Maybe Kubiak is handing out death sentences for fumbles? I bet Tate would agree.

76Texan
12-13-2012, 12:02 AM
It's really simple.

I had listed several reasons at different times, I won't bother listing them again.

Instead, I will give some very basic numbers.

So far, Foster had played in 13 games (as many as he did the entire last year.)

He has 20 more caries, but he has 80 few yards.

A couple of simple queries using Play Finder at ProFootball Reference .com
Shows that he has 2 fewer plays of more than 20 yards (5 as opposed to 7).

The additional yardage gain on those 2 extra plays is 81 yards.

That's right there is the simplest answer.

Then I used Game Rewind to go back and watch those plays to verify them.

A question for you guys is how often did you hear an announcer call out a name of a blocker on our run plays?

Not very often, right?

Well, on those long plays, at least one or two guys were called out because of their blocking near the POA.

It's as simple as that, really.
I don't even need to recount the other factors and reasons.

kiwitexansfan
12-13-2012, 12:02 AM
Look at his number of carries.

He has been run into the ground.

Tate and Forsett look like they have pop because they are FRESH.

76Texan
12-13-2012, 12:04 AM
As y'all can see, it only takes 2 plays to get the same numbers he did last year.

Good blocking = big gain

And defenders taking bad angles also help.

DocBar
12-13-2012, 12:06 AM
It's really simple.

I had listed several reasons at different times, I won't bother listing them again.

Instead, I will give some very basic numbers.

So far, Foster had played in 13 games (as many as he did the entire last year.)

He has 20 more caries, but he has 80 few yards.

A couple of simple queries using Play Finder at ProFootball Reference .com
Shows that he has 2 fewer plays of more than 20 yards (5 as opposed to 7).

The additional yardage gain on those 2 extra plays is 81 yards.

That's right there is the simplest answer.

Then I used Game Rewind to go back and watch those plays to verify them.

A question for you guys is how often did you hear an announcer call out a name of a blocker on our run plays?

Not very often, right?

Well, on those long plays, at least one or two guys were called out because of their blocking near the POA.

It's as simple as that, really.
I don't even need to recount the other factors and reasons.Then I guess everything equals out because Schaub hasn't been destroyed as much and we don;t have near the false start/holding penalties as we did with Winston. I still don't miss that guy. Road grader of a run blocker and turnstile on pass pro.

Maybe Winston faking out a DE, making him think it was a pass play is the difference in Foster's yardage?

Texecutioner
12-13-2012, 12:08 AM
Foster is currently 6th in the league in rushing, but he is only 118 yards away from being 1st in yards.

He leads the league in rushing TD's.

I'm not seeing this whole "Foster is slowing down" thing. He is at the top of the league in all important stats for a RB other then YPC. I have felt like Kubes has run him way to much in a lot of games considering all of our other guys being available. Forsett has been more then capable of gaining yards.

Lucky
12-13-2012, 12:23 AM
The biggest difference in the 2012 from the 2011 Foster is his impact as a receiver. Foster is averaging only 13.5 receiving yards/game, as opposed to 47.5 last season. I don't know if that's due to Arian staying in to block more. But going from a 11.2 yards/catch to 5.1 is noticeable.

silvrhand
12-13-2012, 12:43 AM
The biggest difference in the 2012 from the 2011 Foster is his impact as a receiver. Foster is averaging only 13.5 receiving yards/game, as opposed to 47.5 last season. I don't know if that's due to Arian staying in to block more. But going from a 11.2 yards/catch to 5.1 is noticeable.

Agree here, but the real thing I notice is he looks about 15-20lbs lighter this year.

CretorFrigg
12-13-2012, 12:44 AM
The biggest difference in the 2012 from the 2011 Foster is his impact as a receiver. Foster is averaging only 13.5 receiving yards/game, as opposed to 47.5 last season. I don't know if that's due to Arian staying in to block more. But going from a 11.2 yards/catch to 5.1 is noticeable.

That ties in to him being unable to break as many tackles this year. For RBs, a lot of those catches will net you huge gains if you break that one tackle from that linebacker/safety in your way.

DX-TEX
12-13-2012, 02:29 AM
Eat some damn meat.

Simple as that.

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 06:15 AM
Then I guess everything equals out because Schaub hasn't been destroyed as much and we don;t have near the false start/holding penalties as we did with Winston. I still don't miss that guy. Road grader of a run blocker and turnstile on pass pro.

Maybe Winston faking out a DE, making him think it was a pass play is the difference in Foster's yardage?

If we're going there, I miss Mario.
Yeah, he may have taken plays off, but the numbers were there..... if he were healthy.

I miss Demeco. Who better to have in the event Cushing got hurt?

I miss Dresson. We don't have enough TEs for this offense.

I miss Walter, Barwin, & Casey. I know they're still on the team, but I miss them just the same.

TexanSam
12-13-2012, 08:35 AM
Foster is currently 6th in the league in rushing, but he is only 118 yards away from being 1st in yards.

He leads the league in rushing TD's.

I'm not seeing this whole "Foster is slowing down" thing. He is at the top of the league in all important stats for a RB other then YPC. I have felt like Kubes has run him way to much in a lot of games considering all of our other guys being available. Forsett has been more then capable of gaining yards.

1st in yards? I'm confused. Adrian Peterson leads the league in rushing yards by a huge margin so it can't be that.

I agree for the most part, but his low YPC has to be a concern. He's still done well all things considered but it's obvious he's not playing as well as last year. Hopefully that's due to the O-line not playing as well and not him slacking after the big contract, but who knows.

Luv_ya_blue
12-13-2012, 08:40 AM
Didn't read the entire thread...

One of the biggest problems that I see with Arian this season is that he can't seem to be able to stay on his feet. No, I don't mean because he's being tackled. I see the guy trip, slip and fall AT LEAST 3 times a game in every single stadium that we play at. Don't know if it's cleats, balance, too much tape, or what--but it seems like every time he really cuts hard he looses his footing.

Thoughts?

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 08:53 AM
1st in yards? I'm confused. Adrian Peterson leads the league in rushing yards by a huge margin so it can't be that.


He's 6th overall, 2nd in the AFC behind Jamal Charles. I think that's what he meant.

GP
12-13-2012, 10:49 AM
The guy had some problems in college, too, which along with his hamstring injury had people not on his bandwagon come draft day.

Maybe the guy is just an over-thinker. Seems to be a knowledgable enough guy, openly admits he's into learning new things and being proactive with life, especially the whole diet thing.

So for me, I do wonder if maybe he is over-thinking things. You don't want your players to be total meat heads (no pun intended), but you don't want your players trying to be overly nuanced "outside the box" type people either.

Brian Cushing and JJ Watt really are the types of guys you need on your team. They eat, sleep, and breathe football. They will obviously have other interests, but when I look at guys like Foster and Barwin...I sense that football is not exactly the top priority in life.

Look, I am NOT saying these two guys are as bad as Okoye or Carr who obviously were really bad pros at their jobs. I just wanted to say that Foster, to me, looks like the "I've arrived" type of player this year. I don't think it's the money, either. It's the idea that he now knows he belongs, he's been validated. Where do you go from there? You might try to make sure you stay healthy and in each game, so that's something to consider.

His cuts, as mentioned by another poster in this thread recently, seem very exaggerated this year. Like he's literally LEAPING. I think he's trying to hang into the lane way too long and is trying to make way too big or way too dramatic of a cut, in order to get to the cutback lane. I wonder if he's just trying to push himself TOO hard, trying to make the GREATEST cuts of all time (no offense to Taylor Swift, your cuts are good too - Kanye West).

Overall, I just don't see him having the critical, game-changing moments he had in 2011. He had moments in 2011 where he literally pulled our asses out of the fire in a lot of games. The huge sideline run, IIRC, was a game changing moment in one of the divisional games that seriously was the difference maker in that game. So while he has had decent yardage, his "big moments", IMO, are a lot less this year than last year.

Vinny
12-13-2012, 10:53 AM
maybe his favorite player as a kid was Franco Harris?

GP
12-13-2012, 10:53 AM
Sigh, I need to really clarify that I don't think Arian Foster is a slacker, nor do I think he is a bad pro.

I think the guy is solid.

I just cannot put my finger on why this year feels so opposite of what he looked like in 2011. For me, the "big moment" factor is what is missing in 2012 that he had performed a lot in 2011. And frankly, those things are not scripted...so those moments happen or they don't. It's sports.

GP
12-13-2012, 10:54 AM
Another note: I guess we could go back to the days of Tony Hollings and Wali Lundy and stuff.

Nah, I think Arian Foster will do just fine!

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 11:04 AM
maybe his favorite player as a kid was Franco Harris?

Did you see that play where Tate was stumped in the backfield, he bounced off the intial contact, then broke another tackle in the back field, then stiff armed another defender to get to the corner, & actually made a positive play.

That was more Franco Harris than anything I've seen Foster do this year

I may be completely wrong & this may be more emotions talking than anything, but that 12 yard run by Foster to start the game & the 15 yard run he followed with, I just think those would have went for scores with Ben Tate carrying the rock.

El Tejano
12-13-2012, 11:08 AM
Has not been running very hard. Looks to run out of bounds at the first sign of contact.:foottap:

Yep. I used to say I wanted him to stay in to keep the clock running but now I see him not looking to the middle of the field at all like Tate does.

CretorFrigg
12-13-2012, 11:10 AM
maybe his favorite player as a kid was Franco Harris?

Who?

GP
12-13-2012, 11:14 AM
Yep. I used to say I wanted him to stay in to keep the clock running but now I see him not looking to the middle of the field at all like Tate does.

The past few games, he looks like he's got Steve Slaton syndrome: Find the pile and run right up the middle of it, Sanchez style.

VTexan
12-13-2012, 11:20 AM
He needs more rest. The last two years he would get two series then tate would be in for a series. This year he has not had that luxury and we are now going into week 15.

Vinny
12-13-2012, 11:21 AM
I'm too old to post when nobody gets my Franco Harris reference.

Double Barrel
12-13-2012, 11:29 AM
I'm too old to post when nobody gets my Franco Harris reference.

Speaking of which, the NFLN's series "A Football Life" is doing one on the Immaculate Reception reception next week.

These young whippersnappers are confused about your reference. :winky:

Vinny
12-13-2012, 11:31 AM
Speaking of which, the NFLN's series "A Football Life" is doing one on the Immaculate Reception reception next week.

These young whippersnappers are confused about your reference. :winky:nice. Just for some reference on my post - the one thing that really got on all old Oiler fans nerves was Franco Harris running out of bounds over and over and over. :specnatz:

Double Barrel
12-13-2012, 11:38 AM
nice. Just for some reference on my post - the one thing that really got on all old Oiler fans nerves was Franco Harris running out of bounds over and over and over. :specnatz:

John McClain was talking about that in the off-season (the one thing he's good at is nostalgia).

He said Steelers fans have always loved Earl Campbell because he ran "like a Steeler". They always criticized Franco because he ran out of bounds (Tony Dorsett used to face the same criticism, iirc).

But like McClain pointed out, this habit of running out of bounds added years to Franco's career, and those massive hits obviously took their toll on Earl. He said in a conversation with Earl not long ago, Earl said he should have ran like Franco to preserve his body some and lengthen his career.

I think it's playing smart. Unless you need that extra yard, save yourself to fight another battle.

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 11:57 AM
I think it's playing smart. Unless you need that extra yard, save yourself to fight another battle.

Especially if you've got the first down & no chance of a TD.

76Texan
12-13-2012, 01:42 PM
The biggest difference in the 2012 from the 2011 Foster is his impact as a receiver. Foster is averaging only 13.5 receiving yards/game, as opposed to 47.5 last season. I don't know if that's due to Arian staying in to block more. But going from a 11.2 yards/catch to 5.1 is noticeable.

I need to dig more into that, but at the moment this much I can tell.

With AJ out for a big portion last year, and the fact that we eased him back in getting ready for the play-offs, we shift some of the load to Foster.

Actually, Foster was targeted just 1. Something more per game last year.
Overall, his number of total involvements has increased this year.

As far as why his receiving yards were so much higher last year, I need to study some more.

I only looked at one game so far, against the Raiders.
He had 4 catches, I think (I don't have my note here with me).
A 60 yd catch and run with nobody really touching him until toward the end of the play. A 22-23 ydr and a couple in the teens also went the same way.

Basically, it was just poor coverage by the Raiders.

Not only that, Foster was nursing a hamstring at that early stage of the season.

There's nothing to suggest that he could have been more explosive or stronger than he is right now.

He even got rolled over by the ankle on one play early in the first quarter.

Everything seems to indicate "coincidence" due to poor coverage and not anything related to him being a Vegeterian or slowing down or that he's not as strong such that he can't break tackle as efficiently as he did last year.

76Texan
12-13-2012, 01:55 PM
Sigh, I need to really clarify that I don't think Arian Foster is a slacker, nor do I think he is a bad pro.

I think the guy is solid.

I just cannot put my finger on why this year feels so opposite of what he looked like in 2011. For me, the "big moment" factor is what is missing in 2012 that he had performed a lot in 2011. And frankly, those things are not scripted...so those moments happen or they don't. It's sports.

One thing I know is that a few ex-coaches (Gruden, Billick) talked about Foster as a patient runner.

He's learned as the years move along to press the heels of his blockers to set up the block before he makes the cut.

When you do this, and the block gets blown up, there's not much room to go.
In the long term, it should pay off; only if he gets the same blocking he received last year.

We don't have the same continuity of the 6 guys we had last year (including Dreessen).

Wade Smith has been playing hurt basically from the start.
Caldwell was also hurt most of the time.
And we have a carousel at RG and RT.

The numbers with Forsett and Tate are of a small sample size.
Nothing is definitive there; only I know that "coincidentally" they've been getting better blocking and they are not used anywhere as often in "tough situations".

Tailgate
12-13-2012, 01:57 PM
I am really starting to wonder when Tate is going to start shouldering some of the load again like he did last year. Foster and Tate were great together last year and provided the defense to gameplan for both. I loved it when we pitched the ball out to Tate wide for 7 yards each time.

thunderkyss
12-13-2012, 02:03 PM
I am really starting to wonder when Tate is going to start shouldering some of the load again like he did last year. Foster and Tate were great together last year and provided the defense to gameplan for both. I loved it when we pitched the ball out to Tate wide for 7 yards each time.

Tate was on the radio after the game & they asked him how he was feeling, if he was ready to take on the role he had last year. He basically said no. He wants to be, but he isn't.

He said he was winded in the Titans game even though he didn't play much. He felt good during Monday's game, but the recovery wasn't where he wants it to be.

& I agree, when it looks like Tate & Foster are competing against each other, it's good news for the Texans.

amazing80
12-13-2012, 07:26 PM
I think Foster has misplaced his vision, I will not say he lost it because I don't think you can entirely lose it, but he makes TERRIBLE reads sometimes. He always seemed to forget about the cutback, but he would do it a few times a game, not its RARE that you see him cutback at all, not sure why, because thats where we get out biggest runs, when the defense over pursues. He needs to watch a little more film from last season and maybe it will click for him....

coltfan123
12-13-2012, 09:03 PM
Heh, well....I was one of only about three people calling attention to it from the beginning of the reg season.

I don't know if it's the diet, the new $$$, the lack of Winston and Brisiel, some sort of situation involving Tate....but he's shutting it down early in a lot of games.

He's also running more through the middle when his bread and butter is always the edge and then a cutback. Don't know if he's trying to prove (to himself?) that he can run anywhere ,even the middle, or what.

But it's been off all season. He might not have been a big fan of seeing Winston and Brisiel leave. Because he's not running as well, for sure.

Sure it has nothing with his new celebrity endorsement with krogers...i work for krogers and it depressed me and sucks the life out of me...foster is the poor guinea pig of the virus krogitis...

Texan_Bill
12-13-2012, 09:31 PM
I think Foster has misplaced his vision, I will not say he lost it because I don't think you can entirely lose it, but he makes TERRIBLE reads sometimes. He always seemed to forget about the cutback, but he would do it a few times a game, not its RARE that you see him cutback at all, not sure why, because thats where we get out biggest runs, when the defense over pursues. He needs to watch a little more film from last season and maybe it will click for him....

Sure it has nothing with his new celebrity endorsement with krogers...i work for krogers and it depressed me and sucks the life out of me...foster is the poor guinea pig of the virus krogitis...

Both y'all are misplaced in your thinking... I think other teams are scheming against Foster therefore limiting his game.

Foster will regain his ability to gash teams as he adapts to what they do against him. Meanwhile his 1148 yards will look... "pedestrian".

coltfan123
12-13-2012, 09:49 PM
Both y'all are misplaced in your thinking... I think other teams are scheming against Foster therefore limiting his game.

Foster will regain his ability to gash teams as he adapts to what they do against him. Meanwhile his 1148 yards will look... "pedestrian".

there is truth to that every team first game plan is to shut foster down..thats why texans have two diffrent types of backs...while they are getting there foster fix look like your going to hand to foster, then flip it to tate or forseet and burn it deep...creative play calling is what was missed monday..

klockWork
12-13-2012, 10:55 PM
Foster biggest strength is his ability to be patient behind his blocker. With the right side of the O line being atrocious as they are, his biggest strength has become his biggest weakness.
When that side of the line is getting breach at the point of handoff he needs to abandon his patient running and hit whatever hole that is in front of him. Instead he gets chase down by the lineman causing the breach.
That's why Tate and Forset are getting more production per carry. Those two are not as patient and that's why it looks like they getting to the holes faster.
If that right side don't improve it's best to play Forset and Tate. But we all know that'll never happen.

That side of the line is also atrocious on pass-blocking. People blame Schaub for not getting us back in the N.E. game. But it was that part of the line that kept getting blown up and missing blitz pickup that ultimately kill our comeback chances.

MEGA SWATT
12-14-2012, 12:03 AM
Over using him. Tate coming back will help get his explosive big playmaking back in order.

ChampionTexan
12-14-2012, 12:26 AM
Over using him. Tate coming back will help get his explosive big playmaking back in order.

Which is all well and good except for the fact that Foster's performance hasn't really fallen off the last few games, it's pretty much been at the same level all season.

Bulls on Parade
12-14-2012, 08:16 AM
I'm very disappointed in Arian Foster's two primetime games against Super Bowl contenders. Those were the games I expected him to play like a superstar and lead us to a victory.

He had 17 carries for 29 rushing yards (1.7 per) and 2 TDs against the Packers. He then had 15 carries for 46 rushing yards (3.1 per) and 1 TD against the Patriots. That was coming off his 14 carries for 38 rushing yards game against the Titans (2.7 per) and 1 TD game.

He's still managing to score rushing Touchdowns even when he's not playing well but a RB of his caliber should have been gashing those teams for over 100 yards rushing and at least 4 yards per carry if not more. Especially the Packers which were devastated by key injuries in that game. I really felt he was primed for a 25-carry, 220-yard and 3 TD game going into the Packers game and boy was I way off. He only had the worst game of his career in that one.

I don't think it's the blocking either. The holes are still there he's just not hitting them fast enough. Put Adrian Peterson behind our current offensive line and he'd be beasting his way towards the league MVP award on the AFC's best-record team. He's not going to win it in Minnesota unless they make the playoffs which is doubtful considering two of their final three games are against the Texans and Packers.

I believe talent wise, Arian Foster is just as good as Adrian Peterson even though he hasn't played like it all season long. With the exception of scoring more Touchdowns of course.

thunderkyss
12-14-2012, 09:12 AM
I don't think it's the blocking either.

I don't think it's all on the OL but the holes really haven't been there, especially on the goal line, I can think of 2 times inside the 5 that I think we can credit the OL for a Foster TD. Other than that, it's been all Foster & it shouldn't be so lopsided.

BigBull17
12-14-2012, 09:16 AM
One of the reasons I dislike the ZBS is that when teams stop it, it's completely dead. Its a gimmick. I wish we could shift to a more power run style, but I know that wont happen.

thunderkyss
12-14-2012, 09:23 AM
One of the reasons I dislike the ZBS is that when teams stop it, it's completely dead. Its a gimmick. I wish we could shift to a more power run style, but I know that wont happen.

When the other team stops it, that means someone didn't do their job right & the play-calling is too predictable. When I say play-calling is too predictable, though Kubiak is the main play caller, remember Matt can change the play at the line. If he sees a favorable match-up to the right but decides to go to the left as the play was called, you can't blame that on the coach.

The ZBS is about options. There are a dozen different options on every play. We're talking about how they handle the blocking up front, where the doubles will be, who will go to the second level & when, how the full back reads & attacks the gaps, and of course how the running back reads the blocks & which one he's going to take. He should always have an outside, inside, & a cutback option. There is literally no way it can fail if the team is on the same page & the QB takes advantage of what he sees at the line.

Scooter
12-14-2012, 09:27 AM
we've got more problems on the line than we've grown accustomed to over the past few years, but i cant put it all or even most on the line ... they have no trouble opening lanes for tate and forsett. foster isnt seeing the holes he used to and is going down on first contact (or no contact) any time he touches the ball. it's been going on all season, foster's been pedestrian, but the sheer volume of carries and goalline touches make his numbers look a lot better than his play actually is.

and before we start again with the short yardage touches killing his stats, between the 20's foster is averaging 3.98ypc. a full yard shorter than his past two seasons.

Rey
12-14-2012, 09:47 AM
When the other team stops it, that means someone didn't do their job right & the play-calling is too predictable. When I say play-calling is too predictable, though Kubiak is the main play caller, remember Matt can change the play at the line.

Matt cannot change every play. There are certain situations where he can check to another play based on something that has been predetermined by the coaching staff.

Matt cannot walk up to the line, see a 'favorable match up' and audible to whatever the heck he wants to. When they are preparing for the games during the week they go over different looks and Kubiak says, if we get this look we're going to audible to this play. It's Matt's job to recognize when they get those favorable looks when they are in the right formation to exectue. He can also make an opposite call to run the play the other direction.

Kubiak and Matt have talked about this a few times.

And I agree that when someone stops it that means that someone(s) didn't do their job right...

This offense is no more of a gimmick than any other scheme.

drs23
12-14-2012, 10:02 AM
I'm too old to post when nobody gets my Franco Harris reference.

Oh, I think a *few*of us caught it.

thunderkyss
12-14-2012, 10:05 AM
Matt cannot change every play. There are certain situations where he can check to another play based on something that has been predetermined by the coaching staff.

Never said that & that's irrelevant to this discussion.
He can also make an opposite call to run the play the other direction.

Exactly. If the line is too stacked to the left & we run left, I think that is on Matt, not Kubiak or the ZBS.

And I agree that when someone stops it that means that someone(s) didn't do their job right...

This offense is no more of a gimmick than any other scheme.

Mr teX
12-14-2012, 10:12 AM
He's too patient at times waiting for blocks to set up & looking for the cutback too much. This gives defenders time to get into position to locate him behind the LOS & it gives defenders time to run him down from the backside...even after the TE's & RT have thrown their cut block. that's what i've been seeing alot of anyway. This combined with him being run into the ground I think is starting to show up.

The reason Forsett & Tate look so much more explosive is in part b/c they are fresher, but also b/c both guys get in & hit even the smallest seams & just take whatever they get. Foster seems to want to rip off the big run every time. Sometimes, you just need to get in there & push the pile a little so as to wear the defense down & get them tired.

StarStruck
12-14-2012, 10:47 AM
Oh, I think a *few*of us caught it.

Count me in. I have observed and Franco did come to mind, but given my team's overall performance, felt I wasn't in a position to comment.

klockWork
12-14-2012, 10:53 AM
He's too patient at times waiting for blocks to set up & looking for the cutback too much. This gives defenders time to get into position to locate him behind the LOS & it gives defenders time to run him down from the backside...even after the TE's & RT have thrown their cut block. that's what i've been seeing alot of anyway. This combined with him being run into the ground I think is starting to show up.

The reason Forsett & Tate look so much more explosive is in part b/c they are fresher, but also b/c both guys get in & hit even the smallest seams & just take whatever they get. Foster seems to want to rip off the big run every time. Sometimes, you just need to get in there & push the pile a little so as to wear the defense down & get them tired.

You realized you just plagarized my last post? Well at least you see as I do as it seems we the only that recognize Foster patient running style in a mess up O line is hampering his game when Tate & Forset are getting better results because they turning up the field faster instead of waiting for holes to develop.

Mr teX
12-14-2012, 12:05 PM
You realized you just plagarized my last post? Well at least you see as I do as it seems we the only that recognize Foster patient running style in a mess up O line is hampering his game when Tate & Forset are getting better results because they turning up the field faster instead of waiting for holes to develop.

Lol, i didn't read the thread, just the thread title and came in & posted my thoughts. But i went back & read yours & its funny b/c it damn near is plagerism!

One thing i think this highlights though is how much this offense & the running game miss Tate & his running style. He and Foster's style contrast so much that defenses have trouble making the adjustment of defending a slower patient runner in foster to a faster explosive runner in Tate from series to series. Both guys however are a load to bring down & eventually the 1-2 punch wears the defense down.

Forsett's a good change of pace guy, but he doesn't pack the punch that Tate does. I think the return of Tate could rejuvenate Foster & the running game......& thereby the offense.

amazing80
12-14-2012, 05:42 PM
Both y'all are misplaced in your thinking... I think other teams are scheming against Foster therefore limiting his game.

Foster will regain his ability to gash teams as he adapts to what they do against him. Meanwhile his 1148 yards will look... "pedestrian".

Oh Im sorry, I did not know they did not game plan for Foster the previous 2 seasons, how foolish of me :mariopalm:


No one (at least I think) is claiming foster is done, or garbage, but to watch him play and think he passes the eye test is crazy IMO He lacks explosion and vision, 2 of his most predominant features as a back

76Texan
12-14-2012, 05:49 PM
Oh Im sorry, I did not know they did not game plan for Foster the previous 2 seasons, how foolish of me :mariopalm:


No one (at least I think) is claiming foster is done, or garbage, but to watch him play and think he passes the eye test is crazy IMO He lacks explosion and vision, 2 of his most predominant features as a back

I don't know man.

I've been called crazy a few times, and the one ends up go see a psychiatrist isn't me :)

HJam72
12-15-2012, 11:45 AM
Part of me suspects that Foster is saving HIMSELF for the playoffs (and next year).

76Texan
12-15-2012, 11:52 AM
Part of me suspects that Foster is saving HIMSELF for the playoffs (and next year).

There's nothing wrong with Foster, as I has pointed out on the first page of the thread.

It takes just two big plays where he had excellent blocking like last year, and his number would be the same.

On top of that, we have more opportunities to use him in short yardage and near the goal line situations this year than last.

He's also involved more in fourth quarter turtle mode to chew out the clock.

I had actually studied them all.

Nothing to do with vegan, or Vegeterian, or anything of that sort.

thunderkyss
12-15-2012, 12:31 PM
It takes just two big plays where he had excellent blocking like last year, and his number would be the same.


2 plays? or 2 plays a game?

I think 2 plays a game is a problem.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 12:35 PM
2 plays? or 2 plays a game?

I think 2 plays a game is a problem.

Just 2 plays in 13 games for 81 yards.
Two big plays where the hole was huge, and/or pursuit taking a bad angle.

Remember Troy Polamalu and "Michelle" Griffin (that's what they call him on the Titans board, LOL).

76Texan
12-15-2012, 12:37 PM
Read post 11 and 13 of this thread.

Scooter
12-15-2012, 12:40 PM
IF he had more big runs and IF he did it on fewer carries, his stats would be as good as last season. hard to argue with that.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 12:46 PM
IF he had more big runs and IF he did it on fewer carries, his stats would be as good as last season. hard to argue with that.

Remember how a lot of people talk about the right side of the line and how we miss Dreessen.

Not only that, Wade Smith is playing "more hurt" this season than last.

It's only a coincidence that Tate and Forsett see a big hole or two here and there. With much fewer carries, a good run bump up the average quite a bit.

And they are not used in those short yardage situations anywhere as much as Foster.

Scooter
12-15-2012, 12:57 PM
i'm not buying the short yardage excuse. as i mentioned earlier, foster's average between the 20's is down a full yard. his first down average is down .2ypc, second down is down .6ypc, and third down is down 2.1ypc. his average to the left is down .9ypc, to the left sideline is down .6ypc. he's missing holes that are there, and he's going down with or before first contact. that has nothing to do with anyone else.

2012 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/12497/arian-foster)
2011 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/12497/year/2011/arian-foster)

amazing80
12-15-2012, 01:11 PM
It's really simple.

I had listed several reasons at different times, I won't bother listing them again.

Instead, I will give some very basic numbers.

So far, Foster had played in 13 games (as many as he did the entire last year.)

He has 20 more caries, but he has 80 few yards.

A couple of simple queries using Play Finder at ProFootball Reference .com
Shows that he has 2 fewer plays of more than 20 yards (5 as opposed to 7).

The additional yardage gain on those 2 extra plays is 81 yards.

That's right there is the simplest answer.

Then I used Game Rewind to go back and watch those plays to verify them.

A question for you guys is how often did you hear an announcer call out a name of a blocker on our run plays?

Not very often, right?

Well, on those long plays, at least one or two guys were called out because of their blocking near the POA.

It's as simple as that, really.
I don't even need to recount the other factors and reasons.

First off, he has 20 MORE carries with less yardage, thats a big problem.

Secondly, 2 runs of 20 or more yards in no world equals 81 yards, he could have had 2 21 yard runs, adding to his total carries and still not equal to the yards, thus keeping his YPC DOWN which is the problem posters are having. He still has stats and good amount of carries, but he is not taking full advantage of his opportunities.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 01:19 PM
i'm not buying the short yardage excuse. as i mentioned earlier, foster's average between the 20's is down a full yard. his first down average is down .2ypc, second down is down .6ypc, and third down is down 2.1ypc. his average to the left is down .9ypc, to the left sideline is down .6ypc. he's missing holes that are there, and he's going down with or before first contact. that has nothing to do with anyone else.

2012 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/12497/arian-foster)
2011 (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/12497/year/2011/arian-foster)

You can't just look at numbers by themselves.

Numbers between the 20 don't mean squat.
If you want to look at numbers, look at:

The times a back carries the ball inside his 3 yard line (not much different here, one more carry this year, but it affects the overall picture a short hair).

Look at the times a back carry the ball near the opponent goal line (4 yard or 3 yard or less).

Look at the times a back Carry the ball trying to make a first down on third and short or fourth and short.

Look at the times a back carry the ball in the fourth quarter when the team has a big lead (turtle mode).

Look at the big plays. Watch those plays.
Did they come about due to good blocking or because the back break a tackle or make a defender miss.

Numbers don't tell you that a defender gets blocked out of a play.
They don't tell you that pursuit was terrible.
They just record the outcome, not how it comes about.

Texecutioner
12-15-2012, 01:27 PM
1st in yards? I'm confused. Adrian Peterson leads the league in rushing yards by a huge margin so it can't be that.

I agree for the most part, but his low YPC has to be a concern. He's still done well all things considered but it's obvious he's not playing as well as last year. Hopefully that's due to the O-line not playing as well and not him slacking after the big contract, but who knows.

I never once stated that he was 1st in yards. I said that he was like 200 yards away from being in 1st in yards, and that's not far at all. He is sixth, but he is right on the heels of every guy in front of him other then AP. Foster is 1st in TD's as well which suggests that he's been an excellent and reliable RZ back all season.

I'm just not getting this exaggerated criticism on Arian Foster when you look at his entire season. He's been a top 3 back in this league all season long. Nothing is wrong with the guy other then probably a few aches and bruises. I wouldn't mind seeing him rested for a game before the playoffs. Let Tate and Forsett carry the load. They are both more then capable.

I've got no worries about Foster what so ever.

thunderkyss
12-15-2012, 01:29 PM
It's only a coincidence that Tate and Forsett see a big hole or two here and there. With much fewer carries, a good run bump up the average quite a bit.


Man that's a hard sell.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 01:31 PM
First off, he has 20 MORE carries with less yardage, thats a big problem.

Secondly, 2 runs of 20 or more yards in no world equals 81 yards, he could have had 2 21 yard runs, adding to his total carries and still not equal to the yards, thus keeping his YPC DOWN which is the problem posters are having. He still has stats and good amount of carries, but he is not taking full advantage of his opportunities.

Last year he had 7 plays of 20 yards Or MORE.
He had only 5 this year.

The extra 2 Big Plays netted him the extra 81 yards.
Go check it.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 01:32 PM
Man that's a hard sell.

If you don't watch those big plays.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 01:34 PM
First off, he has 20 MORE carries with less yardage, thats a big problem.

Secondly, 2 runs of 20 or more yards in no world equals 81 yards, he could have had 2 21 yard runs, adding to his total carries and still not equal to the yards, thus keeping his YPC DOWN which is the problem posters are having. He still has stats and good amount of carries, but he is not taking full advantage of his opportunities.

The extra carries are the carries in short yardage and turtle mode.

More importantly, aren't you among those who are concerned about the right side of the line and missing Dreessen?

76Texan
12-15-2012, 01:38 PM
In fact, I have a strong case that Foster is having a "better" year despite the subpar blocking as compared to last year.

Scooter
12-15-2012, 01:54 PM
You can't just look at numbers by themselves.

Numbers between the 20 don't mean squat.
If you want to look at numbers, look at:

The times a back carries the ball inside his 3 yard line (not much different here, one more carry this year, but it affects the overall picture a short hair).

Look at the times a back carry the ball near the opponent goal line (4 yard or 3 yard or less).

i dont have this stat, link?

Look at the times a back Carry the ball trying to make a first down on third and short or fourth and short.

winner - 2011 and 2010

Look at the times a back carry the ball in the fourth quarter when the team has a big lead (turtle mode).

winner - 2011 and 2010

Look at the big plays. Watch those plays.
Did they come about due to good blocking or because the back break a tackle or make a defender miss.

Numbers don't tell you that a defender gets blocked out of a play.
They don't tell you that pursuit was terrible.
They just record the outcome, not how it comes about.

you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, even though the numbers you keep cherry picking are also down. his stats are down in every part of the field and almost every situation - i gave you links. the visual tells me that he's missing his lanes, he's not able to elude defenders, and is going down on first contact. why is it always someone else's fault?

76Texan
12-15-2012, 01:54 PM
Before we go on, I'd like to hear some anwers to these basic questions:

Do you think D. Brown is as good in his blocking as he was last year?

Is Wade Smith?

Is Myers?

The combo of Caldwell, Jones, and Brook?

The combo of Newton and Harris?

How about Gardner?

How about O.D.?

How about Casey?

76Texan
12-15-2012, 01:56 PM
Heck, quite a few people even think that we miss Dreessen!

thunderkyss
12-15-2012, 02:00 PM
Regardless, we know we have a problem running the ball against the elite teams, Pats & Packers. If Foster can get off against those teams there is reason to believe we have a shot at the prize.

We won't see those teams until the play offs.

Instead, what we'd all like to see is total domination of the OL & Foster against weaker teams.

Hopefully that starts tomorrow.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 02:02 PM
you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, even though the numbers you keep cherry picking are also down. his stats are down in every part of the field and almost every situation - i gave you links. the visual tells me that he's missing his lanes, he's not able to elude defenders, and is going down on first contact. why is it always someone else's fault?

The stats from your link are very misleading.

I do have a bunch of notes that I've been tallying by going back and check out all the situations by watching those games in both 2011 and 2012.

If I have some time, I will bring them up.

If not, I will have to do it next week.

One thing you can trust me is that I always do my homework, that I never rely on short-term memory.
:)

76Texan
12-15-2012, 02:13 PM
In the meantime, play around with the PLAY FINDER feature over at ProFootbal Reference . I showed it in one the the treads, and even a Pat fan had to agree that it's a Neat Toy.

Vinny
12-15-2012, 02:40 PM
you're trying to have your cake and eat it too, even though the numbers you keep cherry picking are also down. his stats are down in every part of the field and almost every situation - i gave you links. the visual tells me that he's missing his lanes, he's not able to elude defenders, and is going down on first contact. why is it always someone else's fault? it's clear to me that he isn't breaking tackles and exploding through the gaps like he has in the past. I don't need stats to tell me this. He and AJ look like they both lost their elite gear (that final gear that separates the great players from the good players) at the same time...we look like a slow, plodding offense at times.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 02:44 PM
it's clear to me that he isn't breaking tackles and exploding through the gaps like he has in the past. I don't need stats to tell me this. He and AJ look like they both lost their elite gear (that final gear that separates the great players from the good players) at the same time...we look like a slow, plodding offense at times.

I remember one time you said Jackson is at best a nickel back.

Vinny
12-15-2012, 02:51 PM
I remember one time you said Jackson is at best a nickel back.
He's a decent #2cb. I've been here for ten years now and really....I'm not stupid enough to hang on to old opinions about the league since its always an evolution. Most people around here know that I don't assess a situation and marry it till death-do-us-part like some of you guys. You should learn something about hanging on to some of your broken down views. Thanks for playing though.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 02:54 PM
He's a decent #2cb. I've been here for ten years now and really....I'm not stupid enough to hang on to old opinions about the league since its always an evolution. Most people around here know that I don't assess a situation and marry it till death-do-us-part like some of you guys. You should learn something about hanging on to some of your broken down views. Thanks for playing though.

Hey, I remember very clearly the term "AT BEST".

Vinny
12-15-2012, 02:57 PM
Hey, I remember very clearly the term "AT BEST".
I've tweeted and posted how he's improved this season at different times. Don't be so insecure.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 02:57 PM
But let's not go there.

We as fan, has a different opinion about different players.
That's normal.

All I'm asking is that people don't jump to a conclusion.

Vinny
12-15-2012, 02:58 PM
But let's not go there.

We as fan, has a different opinion about different players.
That's normal.

All I'm asking is that people don't jump to a conclusion.
You are the only one "going there" Einstein.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 03:05 PM
So now let's take a look at AJ's numbers.
His yard per reception of 14.7 is better than 6 other years he had been on the league.
Why is there the perception that he lost something?

Vinny
12-15-2012, 03:08 PM
So now let's take a look at AJ's numbers.
His yard per reception of 14.7 is better than 6 other years he had been on the league.
Why is there the perception that he lost something?
because he has. If you think he runs like he has in the past...well, you just look at your stats and post your brilliance for all to see. I'm gonna go do some yardwork while you proclaim yourself brilliant.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 03:10 PM
because he has. If you think he runs like he has in the past...well, you just look at your stats and post your brilliance for all to see. I'm gonna go do some yardwork while you proclaim yourself brilliant.

But that's exactly why I said that you can't trust the numbers.
In fact, his YPR last year was at 14.9 when he was injured most of the times.

Why trust stats?

76Texan
12-15-2012, 03:18 PM
Before we go on, I'd like to hear some anwers to these basic questions:

Do you think D. Brown is as good in his blocking as he was last year?

Is Wade Smith?

Is Myers?

The combo of Caldwell, Jones, and Brook?

The combo of Newton and Harris?

How about Gardner?

How about O.D.?

How about Casey?But to reiterate the point, do we have an honest answer to the questions above?

Scooter
12-15-2012, 03:19 PM
But to reiterate the point, do we have an honest answer to the questions above?

the answer is these guys arent named arian foster.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 03:21 PM
the answer is these guys arent named arian foster.

So we don't need an O-line then?

Why can't you just be honest and answer those questions?

Scooter
12-15-2012, 03:26 PM
because you're walking around the subject, that being foster, by trying to redirect and place blame on others. what does it matter how well anyone else is or isnt playing when a clear lane is made within his progression that he doesnt go to, and is brought down by an arm tackle?

if you want to analyze the offensive line and who's playing well, click "new thread".

76Texan
12-15-2012, 03:31 PM
because you're walking around the subject, that being foster, by trying to redirect and place blame on others. what does it matter how well anyone else is or isnt playing when a clear lane is made within his progression that he doesnt go to, and is brought down by an arm tackle?

if you want to analyze the offensive line and who's playing well, click "new thread".

MAJOR NO!

A RB is tied to his blocking and the running scheme.

If you don't think so, We really have nothing to talk about.
Have a good day!

EllisUnit
12-15-2012, 03:49 PM
Stats are great but last season Foster was a game changer, he could take over a game. He would run through, over and around people on his way to big yardage. This season even when he hits a hole all it takes is one arm to bring him down. Not 2010 and 2011 Foster but this foster just lookes weaker/less inspired. Could it be the big contract has made him quit being so hard on himself ? I dunno but he needs to fix it.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 03:51 PM
On the other hand, I apologize for pressing the matter too much here and there.
Sent a PM to Vinny, too!

I really don't want these discussions to become those in the no-spin zone or like those in political matters.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 03:54 PM
Stats are great but last season Foster was a game changer, he could take over a game. He would run through, over and around people on his way to big yardage. This season even when he hits a hole all it takes is one arm to bring him down. Not 2010 and 2011 Foster but this foster just lookes weaker/less inspired. Could it be the big contract has made him quit being so hard on himself ? I dunno but he needs to fix it.

You still did not answer my questions. :)

EllisUnit
12-15-2012, 03:57 PM
You still did not answer my questions. :)

Oh i agree that the line has went way down and the blocking along with it, BUT i doubt Berry Sanders had an all pro line there in detroit all them years.

Sure the blocking isnt as good but still shouldnt see this big of a drop off IMO.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 03:59 PM
Oh i agree that the line has went way down and the blocking along with it, BUT i doubt Berry Sanders had an all pro line there in detroit all them years.

Sure the blocking isnt as good but still shouldnt see this big of a drop off IMO.

So Foster with 6 yards more per game is a beast?

EllisUnit
12-15-2012, 04:05 PM
So Foster with 6 yards more per game is a beast?

Fosters career still young compared to Sanders.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 04:09 PM
Fosters career still young compared to Sanders.

But I'm not even comparing them.

EllisUnit
12-15-2012, 04:10 PM
But I'm not even comparing them.

u missed my whole point, u are blaming the changes on the oline, i think a good back can adjust, so i was curious as to what kind of line sanders had cause the lions sucked his whole career there.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 04:11 PM
Man, if you go back and watch at least the Pats game, and you tell me the line didn't cost him a lot of yards!

EllisUnit
12-15-2012, 04:13 PM
Man, if you go back and watch at least the Pats game, and you tell me the line didn't cost him a lot of yards!

I agree the line isnt as good as it was, Thats the whole reason i was wondering about sanders o-line. They had to of had a lot of turnover on the line, not to mention they didnt run the Zone blocking scheme.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 04:13 PM
u missed my whole point, u are blaming the changes on the oline, i think a good back can adjust, so i was curious as to what kind of line sanders had cause the lions sucked his whole career there.

Forget about Sanders, Ok.

You don't even have the freaking tapes to see what happened back then anywAy.

EllisUnit
12-15-2012, 04:14 PM
Forget about Sanders, Ok.

You don't even have the freaking tapes to see what happened back then anywAy.

Oh lord man my whole point is that good backs find a way regardless.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 04:17 PM
I agree the line isnt as good as it was, Thats the whole reason i was wondering about sanders o-line. They had to of had a lot of turnover on the line, not to mention they didnt run the Zone blocking scheme.

Go to the Pats board and they can tell you what I'm talking about.

EllisUnit
12-15-2012, 04:19 PM
Go to the Pats board and they can tell you what I'm talking about.

i need to listen to other fans from the opposing board to "understand" what your talking about haha. whatever man

EllisUnit
12-15-2012, 04:23 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/6571/barry-sanders

Thats his regular season stats. He was on ALL crappy teams and i seriously doubt they had the best oline all the time hell if any of the time. My whole point is even if your team/oline is struggling good RBs still know how to turn it up and still be successful.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 04:25 PM
i need to listen to other fans from the opposing board to "understand" what your talking about haha. whatever man

Why they had success about our running game.
They can give another perspective so you don't have to rely on mine.

They tell you about Vince Wilfork, and Ninkovick, and Jones, and their LBs winning the battles in the trench, OK.

ObsiWan
12-15-2012, 05:26 PM
I agree the line isnt as good as it was, Thats the whole reason i was wondering about sanders o-line. They had to of had a lot of turnover on the line, not to mention they didnt run the Zone blocking scheme.

not a legit comparison. Sanders was a totally different kind of back than Foster. Sanders was a "human joystick" kind of back. He would hit the line and gain one or two yards, maybe even lose some, and then bust off a highlight reel run. NFL Films never shows those 1 and 2 yd runs; just the OMG highlight reel runs.

By contrast, Foster is more of a Marcus Allen type back. He follows his blockers, reads the defensive flow, and makes the best of what he sees with one cut. Hopefully, he'll make the one or two guys who have a decent shot at him miss or out run them.

Its the slipping down when he has a shot to make that last defender miss or outrun the defense that's been driving me crazy.

Scooter
12-15-2012, 05:27 PM
i'm starting to follow the logic. even if the line opens lanes, if they're not overall as good as last year, foster wont be as good, that only makes sense. but we're not taking it far enough. the line would be playing better if kubiak had called the exactly correct play each time, obviously. but putting it on kubiak is too easy, the blame has to go to the man who hired kubiak, without whom we'd have a better coach. but why stop there? mcnair wouldnt even be in position to give us such futility if it werent for enron purchasing his energy company, thus we wouldnt be having this problem.

so there you have it, arian foster's problem this year? enron.



or he's having a down year individually.

infantrycak
12-15-2012, 05:36 PM
I agree the line isnt as good as it was, Thats the whole reason i was wondering about sanders o-line. They had to of had a lot of turnover on the line, not to mention they didnt run the Zone blocking scheme.

The Lions with Sanders were kind of unique. No they were not a dominant OL. But they went to a different set to accommodate Barry's style. They spread wider and trusted Barry to get to the edge or hit a gap.

Funny Barry being brought up in a yards after contact thread since he was not good at that.

I think a lot of what is going on with Foster this year is scheme. I see a lot more power and short stretch plays and I think he thrives in the extreme zone stretch plays. Even when we run those we are not getting as effective back side blocking this season which leaves the back having to follow the flow of the play instead of cutting back against the flow.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 05:38 PM
i'm starting to follow the logic. even if the line opens lanes, if they're not overall as good as last year, foster wont be as good, that only makes sense. but we're not taking it far enough. the line would be playing better if kubiak had called the exactly correct play each time, obviously. but putting it on kubiak is too easy, the blame has to go to the man who hired kubiak, without whom we'd have a better coach. but why stop there? mcnair wouldnt even be in position to give us such futility if it werent for enron purchasing his energy company, thus we wouldnt be having this problem.

so there you have it, arian foster's problem this year? enron.



or he's having a down year individually.
We're talking about 6 yards per game.

But really, you still refuse to answer the question.

Can the line be responsible for 6 yards?

You're telling me that I'm shifting the blame, I'm not.
I put it squarely on the line.

If you put it on Foster, than you cannot shift it to the line, nor Kubiak.

Are you satisfied with the line play this year, yes or no.
It's as easy as that.

midway
12-15-2012, 05:53 PM
Foster biggest strength is his ability to be patient behind his blocker. With the right side of the O line being atrocious as they are, his biggest strength has become his biggest weakness.

I couldn't agree with this more and I wish people would recognize how awful the right side of our line is.

thunderkyss
12-15-2012, 05:58 PM
or he's having a down year individually.

Or there is no problem, he's running as well as he ever did.






These are not the droids you're looking for.

EllisUnit
12-15-2012, 06:03 PM
Or there is no problem, he's running as well as he ever did.






These are not the droids you're looking for.

Do not see him running as well as he ever did. YPC are down, runs of over 20 yards are down. Broken Tackles (just assuming) must be down. I can almost bet yards after contact have dropped big time. You opinion is that he is running as good as he ever has.

Mine on the other hand is he is running as bad as he ever has. Dont need stats or anything to prove my opinion. I watch the same games you do.

76Texan
12-15-2012, 06:08 PM
Do not see him running as well as he ever did. YPC are down, runs of over 20 yards are down. Broken Tackles (just assuming) must be down. I can almost bet yards after contact have dropped big time. You opinion is that he is running as good as he ever has.

Mine on the other hand is he is running as bad as he ever has. Dont need stats or anything to prove my opinion. I watch the same games you do.

Please don't bring up the same games we watch! :)

EllisUnit
12-15-2012, 06:13 PM
Please don't bring up the same games we watch! :)

We all watch the same games, but we all seem to see different games :kitten:

thunderkyss
12-15-2012, 06:32 PM
Do not see him running as well as he ever did. YPC are down, runs of over 20 yards are down. Broken Tackles (just assuming) must be down. I can almost bet yards after contact have dropped big time. You opinion is that he is running as good as he ever has.

Mine on the other hand is he is running as bad as he ever has. Dont need stats or anything to prove my opinion. I watch the same games you do.

http://www.mobilisationlab.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/not-the-droids.jpg

these aren't the droids you're looking for

I'm with you on this one Ellis, I think 76 is playing Jedi Mind Tricks.

klockWork
12-15-2012, 09:00 PM
I can't believe someone here has the audacity to compare todays RB to the great Barry Sanders. That dude is a human flubber ball, defying the laws of motion sometimes. He was never real because the moves he makes on the field was unreal, never been duplicated and never will.
Any more attempt comparing him to anybody should void any arguments of any kind.

Now let's get back to what's real. The quality of run block is not as good as last year. That doesn't mean there aren't any holes to run to. It's just not opening up on Foster terms. Foster patient running style is his biggest enemy right now.
When one side of a line is busted up at the start of the snap there's no time to pick and choose your cutting lane. The only direction is up field and pray that there's light at the other side.
That's why Tate and Forsett are getting more production per carry. Their impatient running style in this case have help them elude being tackle at the LOS.

I'm basically rephrasing myself from my previous post in this thread in case you guys have missed it from all this bickering.

The Medic01
12-15-2012, 09:18 PM
Oh lord man my whole point is that good backs find a way regardless.

Fosters style of running requires holes. He is not some Houdini act like Sanders. He relies on vision and cutting and when there is no hole whatsoever he will be stopped.

76Texan
12-16-2012, 04:07 PM
I'm taking my laughs to the bank, have fun worrying about numbers.:kitten::good:

SAMURAITEXAN
12-16-2012, 04:18 PM
I'm taking my laughs to the bank, have fun worrying about numbers.:kitten::good:

I am not worrying about Foster # at all. But I am not laughing at no one. Be humble Grass hopper76!! We are AFC South Champs 2 year in a row !!!:hurrah:

Go Texans!!!

76Texan
12-16-2012, 04:21 PM
I am not worrying about Foster # at all. But I am not laughing at no one. Be humble Grass hopper76!! We are AFC South Champs 2 year in a row !!!:hurrah:

Go Texans!!!

The champagne is getting to my head, Sensei;
Please forgive me. :)

thunderkyss
12-16-2012, 04:24 PM
I'm taking my laughs to the bank, have fun worrying about numbers.:kitten::good:

Laugh while you can.

I still think the concerns with Foster are valid. It was nice seeing Newton back, I think that was the biggest difference, & Tate. Maybe Foster is more threatened by Tate in the backfield.

SAMURAITEXAN
12-16-2012, 04:27 PM
The champagne is getting to my head, Sensei;
Please forgive me. :)

Champagne!!! Drink SAKE instead. :doot:

EllisUnit
12-16-2012, 04:27 PM
I'm taking my laughs to the bank, have fun worrying about numbers.:kitten::good:

because he FINALLY had a dominating 4th i feel better, but until i see it a few weeks in a row i will still be concerned

DocBar
12-16-2012, 09:41 PM
Fosters style of running requires holes. He is not some Houdini act like Sanders. He relies on vision and cutting and when there is no hole whatsoever he will be stopped. In '10 and '11 Foster rarely had rushes for no gain or a loss. This year he has a LOT of them. Today's game was a tale of two halfs. He looked like 2012 Foster in the 1st half and 2010 Foster in the 2nd half.

I'm so very glad he had a big 2nd half today, but I'm still concerned about his play, the amount of carries he's getting and Kubiak's hardheadedness about running him (even though it paid off today) even when he's doing lousy.

BTW, is Forsett hurt? He didn't get a carry today even though Tate was stinking it up.

TEXANRED
12-16-2012, 10:00 PM
Do not see him running as well as he ever did. YPC are down, runs of over 20 yards are down. Broken Tackles (just assuming) must be down. I can almost bet yards after contact have dropped big time. You opinion is that he is running as good as he ever has.

Mine on the other hand is he is running as bad as he ever has. Dont need stats or anything to prove my opinion. I watch the same games you do.

There is nothing wrong with Foster. He is better in every category except YPC. In fact he may be better this year than his 2010 season.

I just think we are spoiled.

http://www.nfl.com/player/arianfoster/79555/profile

EllisUnit
12-16-2012, 10:33 PM
There is nothing wrong with Foster. He is better in every category except YPC. In fact he may be better this year than his 2010 season.

I just think we are spoiled.

http://www.nfl.com/player/arianfoster/79555/profile

Well when you run him as much as we have you have to expect him to be up there in every category. If u run a RB a 1000 times and he has a 1.5 YPC average he will have a pretty good season well according to some of the categories anyways.

DocBar
12-16-2012, 10:33 PM
There is nothing wrong with Foster. He is better in every category except YPC. In fact he may be better this year than his 2010 season.

I just think we are spoiled.

http://www.nfl.com/player/arianfoster/79555/profileYou must be smoking crack.

TEXANRED
12-16-2012, 10:34 PM
You must be smoking crack.
Please explain?

TEXANRED
12-16-2012, 10:37 PM
Well when you run him as much as we have you have to expect him to be up there in every category. If u run a RB a 1000 times and he has a 1.5 YPC average he will have a pretty good season well according to some of the categories anyways.

Looking at another 1600 yard season, 14 plus touchdowns, doing all that despite having a crap FB, RTG, and RTT.

I guess we have forgotten what life was like when Stacey Mack was totting he rock for us.

EllisUnit
12-16-2012, 10:40 PM
Looking at another 1600 yard season, 14 plus touchdowns, doing all that despite having a crap FB, RTG, and RTT.

I guess we have forgotten what life was like when Stacey Mack was totting he rock for us.

Did i ever say foster was a bust, hell no def one of my favorite running backs of all time, and i'm glad we resigned him to a long contract. All i said was he is having an off season. Plus i remember a guy named Domanick Davis who ran very well behind very bad o-line, just saying.

TEXANRED
12-16-2012, 10:45 PM
Did i ever say foster was a bust, hell no def one of my favorite running backs of all time, and i'm glad we resigned him to a long contract. All i said was he is having an off season. Plus i remember a guy named Domanick Davis who ran very well behind very bad o-line, just saying.

DD had a few decent seasons but nothing that could touch what Foster has had.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6437

I never said you said he was a bust. I am just disagreeing about Foster having a down year. Yes, he is down in YPC but any other RB would have less than 1000 yards behind the blocking he has gotten.

EllisUnit
12-16-2012, 10:46 PM
DD had a few decent seasons but nothing that could touch what Foster has had.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6437

I never said you said he was a bust. I am just disagreeing about Foster having a down year. Yes, he is down in YPC but any other RB would have less than 1000 yards behind the blocking he has gotten.

But look at the supporting cast Davis had around him compared to Foster.

thunderkyss
12-16-2012, 10:50 PM
But look at the supporting cast Davis had around him compared to Foster.

The only reason anyone thought our OL was bad, was because of the sacks.

EllisUnit
12-16-2012, 10:51 PM
The only reason anyone thought our OL was bad, was because of the sacks.

ummm no other back could run behind them either, and noone could run behind the oline after davis. The team all around was not good.

DocBar
12-16-2012, 11:01 PM
But look at the supporting cast Davis had around him compared to Foster.BS. DD had a lot of seasons like Foster had today. Lots of carries for little or no gain and busted a few big ones. Foster, in '10 and '11 had lots of 4YPC+ then busted big ones. DD isn't a pimple on AF's azz.

EllisUnit
12-16-2012, 11:05 PM
BS. DD had a lot of seasons like Foster had today. Lots of carries for little or no gain and busted a few big ones. Foster, in '10 and '11 had lots of 4YPC+ then busted big ones. DD isn't a pimple on AF's azz.

Ummmm yes i know that, but Foster also has had a decent O-line the whole time he has been here and Leach at FB for 2 seasons.

Foster is a beast i know that, this is just a down season for him, which i dont care what categories he leads. He just isnt as dominant as he has been the past 2 seasons. BUT i think he is just having a down year TBH.

DocBar
12-16-2012, 11:10 PM
Ummmm yes i know that, but Foster also has had a decent O-line the whole time he has been here and Leach at FB for 2 seasons.

Foster is a beast i know that, this is just a down season for him, which i dont care what categories he leads. He just isnt as dominant as he has been the past 2 seasons. BUT i think he is just having a down year TBH.

I agree with this. Just don;t put DD anywhere near the same category as AF.

TEXANRED
12-16-2012, 11:16 PM
I agree with this. Just don;t put DD anywhere near the same category as AF.

So he should stop smoking crack as well?

EllisUnit
12-16-2012, 11:17 PM
So he should stop smoking crack as well?

haha Domanick Davis was one of my favorite players from the past texans. And i think he could of been even better with a solid core around him.

He was the first good RB we as texans fans had.

DocBar
12-16-2012, 11:26 PM
So he should stop smoking crack as well?Yes.

TEXANRED
12-16-2012, 11:27 PM
haha Domanick Davis was one of my favorite players from the past texans. And i think he could of been even better with a solid core around him.

He was the first good RB we as texans fans had.

Na, that wasnt at you. Docbar had said I was smoking crack. I requested he explain but he has yet to respond.

You shouldnt post and drink.

DocBar
12-16-2012, 11:30 PM
Na, that wasnt at you. Docbar had said I was smoking crack. I requested he explain but he has yet to respond.

You shouldnt post and drink.I responded.

TEXANRED
12-16-2012, 11:43 PM
I responded.

To who? Your imaginary friend?