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View Full Version : I really think Mercilus was "robbed" of a coverage sack


76Texan
12-02-2012, 02:13 AM
In the second quarter, after the 35-yd pass to CJ, we stopped them for a one-yd gain on a run.

They tried a pass on the next play with max protect.
We had Barwin on the TE.
We had double coverage on the two receivers.

In turn, they had two blocking each of our 3 guys.
Merci was about to beat his man in one-on-one when the LG came back to help.

Stafford tried to escape up the middle.

Merci split the two blockers and tackled the QB.

When his knee hit the ground, the ball has yet to cross the LOS.

That should have been a sack.

Can somebody make a gif in super slo-mo?

I will try to post the screen shots.
Right now, I'm kinda beat after some 4 Hours watching film, not counting the college games I flipped through today on TV.

76Texan
12-02-2012, 03:05 AM
I can't sleep.

Here's the sequemce:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/2012%20Week%2012%20Lions/Defensive%20series%205/Merci/

What do you think?

76Texan
12-02-2012, 03:15 AM
chek out the last few shots.


knee down, thigh down, buttock down.

TexanSam
12-02-2012, 03:49 AM
It looks to me like he is past the LOS but it's close.

gtexan02
12-02-2012, 08:32 AM
Once he commits to be a runner isn't it a TFL instead?

DocBar
12-02-2012, 09:13 AM
Once he commits to be a runner isn't it a TFL instead?I don't believe it is when the original play was a designed pass play. Didn't JJ have a sack taken from him because the stats people said it was a designed QB draw and not a pass play? I believe that was against Miami.

LINK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/11/watt-loses-a-sack-ben-picks-up-a-score/)

76Texan
12-02-2012, 10:01 AM
Once he commits to be a runner isn't it a TFL instead?

I don't believe it is when the original play was a designed pass play. Didn't JJ have a sack taken from him because the stats people said it was a designed QB draw and not a pass play? I believe that was against Miami.

LINK (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/11/watt-loses-a-sack-ben-picks-up-a-score/)

In the Dolphins game, Tannerhil was looking to hand the ball to the RB when he tripped and fell.
The RB was heading in that direction to take the snap.

This one is completely different.
The RB squatted to get ready to block.
Stafford looked and pumped a few times.
He went through his progression, looking at the #1 option of the left, then went back to the right to check his 2nd and third option (his third was the TE that Barwin covered.)

It was clearly a pass play.

Also, the rules (per Wikipedia) stated that it is possible to record a sack for zero yard.
The QB must pass the statistical line of scrimmage to avoid the sack.

The ball never crossed the LOS when Stafford's right knee and thigh was down.

He did not get past the LOS before he was down.

And that was why I think it should have been a sack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_sack

Actually, all we need is that the QB did not cross the LOS.
When his knee and thigh hit the turf, he was down.

Playoffs
12-02-2012, 10:08 AM
Here's the sequemce:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/2012%20Week%2012%20Lions/Defensive%20series%205/Merci/

What do you think?
Wouldn't hurt to pass it along to Elias Sports Bureau.

76Texan
12-02-2012, 10:12 AM
Wouldn't hurt to pass it along to Elias Sports Bureau.

The Texans would have to do it.

But I think they'd rather get busy with winning games than some minor stat like us, LOL!

DocBar
12-02-2012, 10:12 AM
In the Dolphins game, Tannerhil was looking to hand the ball to the RB when he tripped and fell.
The RB was heading in that direction to take the snap.

This one is completely different.
The RB squatted to get ready to block.
Stafford looked and pumped a few times.
He went through his progression, looking at the #1 option of the left, then went back to the right to check his 2nd and third option (his third was the TE that Barwin covered.)

It was clearly a pass play.

Also, the rules (per Wikipedia) stated that it is possible to record a sack for zero yard.
The QB must pass the statistical line of scrimmage to avoid the sack.

The ball never crossed the LOS when Stafford's right knee and thigh was down.

He did not get past the LOS before he was down.

And that was why I think it should have been a sack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_sack

Actually, all we need is that the QB did not cross the LOS.
When his knee and thigh hit the turf, he was down.I completely agree with you. I was just trying to point out the difference to gtexan02. It doesn't matter if the qb decides to become a runner if the original play was a designed pass play. Tackled behind LOS is a sack.

76Texan
12-02-2012, 10:13 AM
I completely agree with you. I was just trying to point out the difference to gtexan02.

Yeah, I know!

thunderkyss
12-02-2012, 10:30 AM
Merci split the two blockers and tackled the QB.

When his knee hit the ground, the ball has yet to cross the LOS.

That should have been a sack.


I remember when this happened & said to myself, "That's a sack!"

Stuff like that happens all the time & in truth I figured the only person it "really" matters to is Merci. If he were in a contract year, or if he gets a per sack bonus, then he'd care.

Other than that, I think our coaches know what's going on. He did his job there, it was a negative play. Guys like Football outsiders probably picked up on it, may not have counted it as a sack but I'm sure it helped Whitney's grade.

I know you don't put too much into "sack numbers" & pay attention to what is real.

Get some sleep.

76Texan
12-02-2012, 11:37 AM
I remember when this happened & said to myself, "That's a sack!"

Stuff like that happens all the time & in truth I figured the only person it "really" matters to is Merci. If he were in a contract year, or if he gets a per sack bonus, then he'd care.

Other than that, I think our coaches know what's going on. He did his job there, it was a negative play. Guys like Football outsiders probably picked up on it, may not have counted it as a sack but I'm sure it helped Whitney's grade.

I know you don't put too much into "sack numbers" & pay attention to what is real.

Get some sleep.LOL, actually I had too much sleep on Fri and that was why it was hard to get an easy sleep yesterday.

Basically, I've always said I don't trust individual numbers.

Like when Wade said one of his guys get a free run at a QB and get a sack; "he had not done anything". Those are his exact words I believe.

I just thought it is worth mentioning that Merci actually beat two guys to make this play.

We've seen guys (including ours) had a free run .

I've see Von Miller getting a sack on a free run in the Chargers game, and a stop for loss in the same game, also on a free run.

I've seen him making plays due to the work of the guys around him, due to scheme, or due to mis-assignment by the D.

Miller is an excellent pass rusher, but on that I'm not even sure that I can put him ahead of Watt.

Even if I give him a higher grade in pass rushing, the margin is nowhere near enough to put him close to Watt for DeFensive MVP.

But I digress :)

thunderkyss
12-02-2012, 11:56 AM
Miller is an excellent pass rusher, but on that I'm not even sure that I can put him ahead of Watt.

Even if I give him a higher grade in pass rushing, the margin is nowhere near enough to put him close to Watt for DeFensive MVP.

But I digress :)

There's a thread for that.

As far as not doing nothing.... I know that's Wade, but he says things for different reasons. I've seen guys with a free run to the QB & gets nada... Barwin/Rogers.....

But the point, I think, is that it's the body of work that matters. Rushing the passer is only part of the game for any NFL player. I've seen enough of Whitney (the guy this thread... that you started, is about) to know he's going to be a player.

He's got a high ceiling, the only question is how high. With guys like Watt setting the bar so high & Antonio's never say never attitude, I'm going to say it's going to be pretty high.

TimeKiller
12-02-2012, 12:16 PM
Mercilus needs to have a sack today and I mean that every way possible. Prove your pick young buck. Go get you some more playing time. I'm excited to see what he can do.


There you go!!! Now getcha pull!!!

drs23
12-02-2012, 04:48 PM
Mercilus needs to have a sack today and I mean that every way possible. Prove your pick young buck. Go get you some more playing time. I'm excited to see what he can do.


There you go!!! Now getcha pull!!!

So what ya thinking now TK? :hurrah:

EllisUnit
12-02-2012, 04:51 PM
In the second quarter, after the 35-yd pass to CJ, we stopped them for a one-yd gain on a run.

They tried a pass on the next play with max protect.
We had Barwin on the TE.
We had double coverage on the two receivers.

In turn, they had two blocking each of our 3 guys.
Merci was about to beat his man in one-on-one when the LG came back to help.

Stafford tried to escape up the middle.

Merci split the two blockers and tackled the QB.

When his knee hit the ground, the ball has yet to cross the LOS.

That should have been a sack.

Can somebody make a gif in super slo-mo?

I will try to post the screen shots.
Right now, I'm kinda beat after some 4 Hours watching film, not counting the college games I flipped through today on TV.

I thought they counted it as a sack, they showed him having 2 sacks on the day