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TheOgre
06-08-2005, 05:05 PM
1. Jeff George - Perhaps the best arm in NFL history. Too bad it was attached to that brain.
2. Doug Flutie - He had one great season in college and somehow he is a cult hero. O V E R R A T E D.
3. Jay Fiedler - nice winning percentage, but almost anyone could have won 10 games with the talent the Dolphins had on defense. They probably could have won a title with a REAL QB.
4. Mike Tomczak - did he ever play well?
5. Jeff Blake - he puts up good stats but loses consistently. How does he keep getting starting gigs with his winning percentage?

wiley2002
06-08-2005, 05:30 PM
You forgot to mention Ryan Leaf.

Panther5407
06-08-2005, 05:34 PM
You forgot to mention Ryan Leaf.

I think you would classify Ryan more of a bust than being over rated.

BattleRedRaider
06-08-2005, 05:44 PM
Any QB that the Cowboys get these days is Overrated.

wiley2002
06-08-2005, 05:45 PM
VERY true. I should have put more emphasis on the word OVERRATED. Oh well. Worth a good laugh at least.

Lucky
06-08-2005, 05:57 PM
I like TheOgre's list, though I'm not sure who actually rated Tomczak & Fielder highly. They just started a lot of games. To me, being overrated means that there's a contingent of "experts" that think a guy is the bomb. And there was a group of Jeff George lovers out there. Currently, he are a few guys who I think fit the overrated criteria.

Trent Green - Puts up numbers, but doesn't win a lot of games. Not a difference maker.

Drew Bledsoe - Has lived off a couple of good seasons in New England for too long. Age is the only major difference between Bledsoe & Testaverde.

As far as all-time, I think Joe Namath has to be mentioned. He threw 47 more interceptions than touchdowns over the course of his career. Joe Willie got a lot of milage off of that 1 Super Bowl win.

infantrycak
06-08-2005, 06:14 PM
I'll nominate Neil O'Donnell to the list. Nice job chocking in the biggest game of his life and it has been all down hill since.

Huge
06-08-2005, 07:51 PM
It starts and stops with Kurt Warner.

Game over.

TDforTatum26
06-08-2005, 08:24 PM
Right now I think one of the most overrated QB's is Micheal Vick

gcolby
06-08-2005, 08:33 PM
Don't forget Rick Mirer.

Huge
06-08-2005, 08:36 PM
Mirer would fall under the "bust" category with Leaf.

"Overrated" (to me anyways) means a player is hyped to be better than he really is.

But that's just me.

big sarge
06-08-2005, 08:44 PM
Cody Carleson
Rich Gannon
Tony Banks
Vinny Testaverde
Eli Manning
Dan Marino (sorry but he just couldn't do it HE!HE!) :crying:

TDforTatum26
06-08-2005, 08:46 PM
Cody Carleson
Rich Gannon
Tony Banks
Vinny Testaverde
Eli Manning
Dan Marino (sorry but he just couldn't do it HE!HE!) :crying:


i admitt Eli Manning was a little overrated last year but its only his second season....


im gonna wait and call him overrated when he SUCKS again this season :)

Speedy
06-08-2005, 09:48 PM
Tim Couch
Cordell Stewart

Speedy
06-08-2005, 09:50 PM
Right now I think one of the most overrated QB's is Micheal Vick
Actually, I could not agree with that more. Vick is a great athlete, and very dangerous at that, but a QB he's not. Not yet anyway.

Grid
06-08-2005, 10:22 PM
Ill catch hell from any lurking jag fan.. but Byron Leftwich.

Now, dont get me wrong, I think he is a talented QB. but according to the talking heads, and many other fans, he is the second coming of Joe Montana. Apparently he has a rocket for an arm (uh..no) pinpoint accuracy (no again), size (what good is size without durability or mobility?), clutch instincts (ok.. ill give ya that), and leadership skills (sure)

The fact of the matter is that Byron is a "clutch" QB (really... he is not that much better in a clutch situation than many other QBs), and he has leadership qualities. What he DOESNT have is a really strong arm (average), great accuracy (average), or anything resembling durability, or mobility.

All in all.. id say he is an average, to above average QB.. with a promising future in the NFL if the team is built to his strengths.. but he is NOT some rising superstar. Id compare him to Jake Delhomme.. he will get the job done, but the potential isnt there to dominate his position.

F-minus67
06-08-2005, 10:37 PM
Mark Brunell, he had all the physical gifts, he could run and throw and do it well. But time and injurys have left him a shell of what he once was.

Hervoyel
06-08-2005, 11:37 PM
I honestly can't think of a QB who I think is a) overrated, and b) has been in the league 5 years at least. I know there's one out there and it will probably come to me after I hit the "Post Quick Reply" button. I'm just drawing a blank for some reason.

That reason is I have a QB question on my mind inspired by the responses in this thread. People ask you to name the best QB and it's usually pretty easy. They ask you to name the most overrated and everyone has an opinion (even me if I could just remember what it was). Likewise everyone can tell you who the busts were.

So would everyone please name one QB who was, in your opinion, basically a victim of the team who drafted him. Name the best QB who's talents were completely squandered because he played on a lousy team or for crummy coaches. Maybe he played in a bad system or got no protection, or he was put in a no-win situation and asked to follow a legend.

Name the one guy who didn't work out who you think would have IF he'd been in a better situation.

keyfro
06-09-2005, 12:00 AM
trent green
mike vick
jeff garcia
aaron brooks
kordell stewart

Grid
06-09-2005, 12:01 AM
hmmm.. i didnt see the parenthesied "5 year minimum".

Ahh well.. I still stick by my assessment of Lefty :)

rittenhouserobz
06-09-2005, 06:50 AM
Mirer would fall under the "bust" category with Leaf.

"Overrated" (to me anyways) means a player is hyped to be better than he really is.

But that's just me.

I will disagree about Leaf being overrated. He was picked very high which means he was rated high, but did not perform even close to expectations. That makes him overrated. But he is also a bust.

BTW Akili Smith was also a bust and overrated. Brian Bosworth is another name that pops up.

I just think that the terms "bust" and "over-rated" are very closely related.

Hervoyel
06-09-2005, 07:46 AM
I just think that the terms "bust" and "over-rated" are very closely related.

That's why the 5 year limit is important here. If you get drafted early like Leaf or Mirer then obviously the teams consider you to be pretty darned good. If you never pan out then clearly you're a bust. That's easy enough to figure out right there.

IF however you make it to 5 years in the league and people still think of you as being worth that early day one pick BUT you haven't done anything to deserve being though of like that then you're overrated.

And Archie Manning was a good one. Probably you're right Vinny about him being the ultimate answer to that question. There have been others but nobody has ever had the horror story of a career he had with that much potential just wasted by the team that picked him.

Our own Dante Pastorini I think falls into that catagory (Though not as bad a story as Archie) and his career could have been so much more if a better franchise had drafted him. I also think that Tommy Maddox obviously is a genuine "could have been" and that a lot of years were wasted with him in the wrong situation before Pittsburgh brought his career back from the dead. Early, pre-Raiders Jim Plunkett was a little like that too.

GoPats
06-09-2005, 09:12 AM
Count me in with those who mentioned Ron Mexico, er, I mean, Michael Vick. Great athlete, could revolutionize the game and the position, but he's a gimmick under center. Until he learns how to play QB, teams will always know that they have to shut his runs down to beat Atlanta. The Falcons don't seem to beat teams with good defenses too often, and that's why. They only really have to defend against the run. Vick can't beat anyone with his arm, at least not yet. He tries to force the ball into openings AFTER his receivers come free, and doesn't anticipate ahead of time when that's going to happen. You won't have great success as a throwing QB if you try to play the game that way.

Huge
06-09-2005, 10:43 AM
I honestly can't think of a QB who I think is a) overrated, and b) has been in the league 5 years at least. I know there's one out there and it will probably come to me after I hit the "Post Quick Reply" button. I'm just drawing a blank for some reason.

That reason is I have a QB question on my mind inspired by the responses in this thread. People ask you to name the best QB and it's usually pretty easy. They ask you to name the most overrated and everyone has an opinion (even me if I could just remember what it was). Likewise everyone can tell you who the busts were.

So would everyone please name one QB who was, in your opinion, basically a victim of the team who drafted him. Name the best QB who's talents were completely squandered because he played on a lousy team or for crummy coaches. Maybe he played in a bad system or got no protection, or he was put in a no-win situation and asked to follow a legend.

Name the one guy who didn't work out who you think would have IF he'd been in a better situation.

Vinny already named one but I'll name another - Trent Dilfer

Those early Tampa teams he played on were terrible. About the time they started to come around (and Dilfer's stats were improving), they released him. Everybody said when he got to Baltimore all he had to do was not lose games. But if you look at his stats from that season...

134/226 (59.3%), 1502 yards, 12 TDs, 11 INTs, 76.6 rating

His yards and TDs are low but look at his number of attempts. He had a pretty high completion percentage as well. His rating was still respectable despite the high number of INTs.


I will disagree about Leaf being overrated. He was picked very high which means he was rated high, but did not perform even close to expectations. That makes him overrated. But he is also a bust.

BTW Akili Smith was also a bust and overrated. Brian Bosworth is another name that pops up.

I just think that the terms "bust" and "over-rated" are very closely related.

If this is your view, then I can see how you would think "bust" and "overrated" are closely related.

To me, a player's draft position usually has a lot to do with how they performed in college. So in a way, they earned that draft position. So they can't be considered "overrated" based on where they were drafted.

Now you can say a player is "overrated" if he's drafted higher than you think he ought to be. But that doesn't have anything to do with their performance on the field in the NFL because they have yet to take the field. So they can't be classified as a "bust". At least not yet anyway.

And if they don't pan out after being drafted high, then they're certainly considered to be busts.

And you don't have to be a "bust" to be "overrated". Most would consider Donovan McNabb to be a pretty good QB. But for the 2003 season, he had just 16 TDs with 11 INTs and a 79.6 QB rating. Yet he still went to the Pro Bowl that season.

Going to the Pro Bowl means he was "overrated" for that season. But that doesn't mean he's a "bust" as a player.

I see a big difference between the way you and I look at the two different terms.

stephen1
06-10-2005, 01:15 AM
trent green
mike vick
jeff garcia
aaron brooks
kordell stewart
who rated aaron brooks good to begin with?

TexansNeedRBin05
06-10-2005, 01:47 AM
Tim Couch or Jeff George. Harrington is on his way! :highfive:

rittenhouserobz
06-10-2005, 06:48 AM
Huge I appreciate the insight. Now that I think about McNabb. The media made it sound like he arrived from Mt. Olympus and he would win SB after SB earlier in his career.

I geuss I am putting overrated in relation to draft position, because so much scouting goes into picking players in the NFL draft. The players today begin to get "rated" in high school. It only escalates from there.

I geuss its like the stock market. You can have a ".com" company valued really high without having any "real assets". For a player that would mean the outside skills look does not match the inside heart and knowledge of the game.

michaelm
06-10-2005, 01:13 PM
Chad Pennington might make the list if he's not careful...

ledzeppelin229
06-10-2005, 01:52 PM
I honestly can't think of a QB who I think is a) overrated, and b) has been in the league 5 years at least. I know there's one out there and it will probably come to me after I hit the "Post Quick Reply" button. I'm just drawing a blank for some reason.

That reason is I have a QB question on my mind inspired by the responses in this thread. People ask you to name the best QB and it's usually pretty easy. They ask you to name the most overrated and everyone has an opinion (even me if I could just remember what it was). Likewise everyone can tell you who the busts were.

So would everyone please name one QB who was, in your opinion, basically a victim of the team who drafted him. Name the best QB who's talents were completely squandered because he played on a lousy team or for crummy coaches. Maybe he played in a bad system or got no protection, or he was put in a no-win situation and asked to follow a legend.

Name the one guy who didn't work out who you think would have IF he'd been in a better situation.


Be careful or you'll get the Palmer hater mob involved in this one...

I think someone that could one day fall under this category is Aaron Rodgers. He may turn out to be a fine QB but by the time he's starting the Packers could very well be rebuilding, they've already lost parts of their offensive line (Wahle and Rivera) and Ahman Green could be slowing down by then. Throw in the bombshell that he's asked to succeed Favre and that could be a formula for failure.

All hypothetical of course...

TheOgre
06-10-2005, 02:48 PM
That's why the 5 year limit is important here. If you get drafted early like Leaf or Mirer then obviously the teams consider you to be pretty darned good. If you never pan out then clearly you're a bust. That's easy enough to figure out right there.

IF however you make it to 5 years in the league and people still think of you as being worth that early day one pick BUT you haven't done anything to deserve being though of like that then you're overrated.

I haven't had a chance to come back and check on this. This is exactly it. I couldn't have said it better myself. I wanted to avoid the guys that basically played their rookie contracts and were never heard from again.

Texas_Thrill
06-10-2005, 08:57 PM
I honestly hope Leftwich AND Carr become superstars. It will make for some ALL-TIME GREAT football TWICE a year. I dont see how anyone can root against that. I mean I can't remember when I've seen that since maybe I dont know say.....Kosar-Elway.

B.Diddy
06-10-2005, 10:40 PM
Huge I appreciate the insight. Now that I think about McNabb. The media made it sound like he arrived from Mt. Olympus and he would win SB after SB earlier in his career.

I geuss I am putting overrated in relation to draft position, because so much scouting goes into picking players in the NFL draft. The players today begin to get "rated" in high school. It only escalates from there.

I geuss its like the stock market. You can have a ".com" company valued really high without having any "real assets". For a player that would mean the outside skills look does not match the inside heart and knowledge of the game.

I totally disagree Mcnabb is still one of the best QB's in the Nfl Top 5 For sure
The reason he hasn't been winning super bowls is because his team just recently decided to put some real talent around him But if you want to put the over rated tag on him because he dosent have a super bowl than why not put Dan Marino, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Boomer, Randell Cuningham, And Steve Mcnair come on u shouldn't throw the overated tag around so losely

swisher
06-11-2005, 12:37 AM
BTW Akili Smith was also a bust and overrated. Brian Bosworth is another name that pops up.

I just think that the terms "bust" and "over-rated" are very closely related.


Brian Bosworth was not a bust. He had a pretty decent, but due to an injury, short career. Everyone remembers Bo Jackson running him over, but he was actually a pretty good player. Unfortunatley he was a victim of his own hype.

MarleyFan
06-11-2005, 01:55 AM
5 years....
JEFF GEORGE-Given all the chances in the world, and did not capitalize on any of them.

DREW BLEDSOE-As said above, had a couple of good years and that's it. It seemed he was pissed when he finally won a Super Bowl, with Tom Brady starting the game. The look on his face was not one of joy.

JAY SCHROEDER-Not as bad as Jeff George, but not far behind.

JAY FIEDLER-What was up with this long-term project? I never saw anything in him.

KORDELL STEWART-He should have been happy with his role as "slash".

Huge
06-12-2005, 06:18 PM
Chad Pennington might make the list if he's not careful...

Pennington has close to a 94 career QB rating. As the 18th overall pick of the 2000 draft, I'd say that's pretty good. Staying healthy has been a problem but I wouldn't have "injured all the time" as a category under "overrated".

I totally disagree Mcnabb is still one of the best QB's in the Nfl Top 5 For sure
The reason he hasn't been winning super bowls is because his team just recently decided to put some real talent around him But if you want to put the over rated tag on him because he dosent have a super bowl than why not put Dan Marino, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, Boomer, Randell Cuningham, And Steve Mcnair come on u shouldn't throw the overated tag around so losely

The example I used on McNabb was only one season (when he made the Pro Bowl and truly didn't deserve it). I too think he's one of the top QBs in the league and even though he's an Eagle, he's one of my favorite players. You'd be hardpressed to find anything negative about McNabb.

5 years....
JEFF GEORGE-Given all the chances in the world, and did not capitalize on any of them.

Jeff George - Career Pro Bowls - 0
Again, there's a difference between "bust" and "overrated". "Bust"? Certainly. But has anybody claimed Jeff George to be one of the better QBs in league history?

texasguy346
06-12-2005, 06:37 PM
You'd be hardpressed to find anything negative about McNabb.


I dunno about that. Those Chunky Soup commercials are pretty irritating. :brickwall

Huge
06-12-2005, 06:42 PM
Yeah but McNabb donates the money made from those commercials to charity.

See what I mean?

throwANDREtheBALL
06-12-2005, 08:15 PM
Drew Bledsoe.............PERIOD.


He's still being overrated..........getting signed to big contracts by Buffalo and now Dallas............what has he done lately ?


Oh man, I'm just glad that the Cowboys got him.........it will make our next meeting a little sweeter.........even sweeter, Drew Henson looks like the next Overrated DREW........I can't believe that we got a 3rd rounder for him.


:highfive:

TheOgre
06-13-2005, 01:52 PM
Drew Bledsoe.............PERIOD.


He's still being overrated..........getting signed to big contracts by Buffalo and now Dallas............what has he done lately ?


He threw for over 4000 yards in 2002. His problem is that he is probably the least mobile QB in the game. Add to it that he holds onto the ball too long to try to make a play and that is a recipe for too many sacks. Dallas line is far superior to that of the Bills. I am not a Cowboys fan (they are my 31st favorite team in the league with only Pittsburgh trailing them), but I think Bledsoe will do well this year. I think the Cowboys are going to win about 10 games this year.

TDforTatum26
06-14-2005, 06:55 PM
Name the one guy who didn't work out who you think would have IF he'd been in a better situation.


thats a good statement.and a tough one. I will have to think about it.


Just look at Ben Rothlisberger. I think he has alot of talent and skills..........but do you think he would have gone 14-1 or 13-1 (somethin like that) if the Cardinals took him instead of Fitzgerled?No. he was just put in the right situation on the right team.


ok I thought about and I will have to go with Archie Manning. I think the same thing will happen to Eli like it happened to Archie

TheOgre
05-16-2006, 02:16 PM
/bump:hunter:

kiwitexansfan
05-16-2006, 05:25 PM
Just an opinion and one that may get me slammed but when I think of overrated I think Brett Favre.

Just a reckless gunslinger. Exciting yes, great hmmm I don't know.

Huge
05-16-2006, 06:40 PM
It starts and stops with Kurt Warner.

Game over.
Said it almost a year ago and it still rings true.

Fldvldog
05-16-2006, 06:58 PM
Michael Vick - For obvious reasons
David Carr - Will never live up to the potential fans say.
Drew Bledsoe - Can he ever play up to his contract?

texan279
05-16-2006, 09:19 PM
1. Jeff George - Perhaps the best arm in NFL history. Too bad it was attached to that brain.
2. Doug Flutie - He had one great season in college and somehow he is a cult hero. O V E R R A T E D.
3. Jay Fiedler - nice winning percentage, but almost anyone could have won 10 games with the talent the Dolphins had on defense. They probably could have won a title with a REAL QB.
4. Mike Tomczak - did he ever play well?
5. Jeff Blake - he puts up good stats but loses consistently. How does he keep getting starting gigs with his winning percentage?

Flutie won four Most Outstanding Player awards, threw for 45667 yards, had a 59.8 completion percentage, and threw for 297 TD's in 9 seasons of USFL and CFL play. He might not have done it in the NFL, but it's still pro football.

Kaiser Toro
05-16-2006, 10:15 PM
Troy Aikman
Jim McMahon
Phil Simms
Pat Haden
Steve Bartkowski
Ken Anderson
Boomer Esiason
Jeff Garcia

Mostly large market guys will be the overrated variety. Just like Parcells on the coaching side. Without the NY media and a coked up LT, we would never have heard about Parcells' greatness.

jgl35
05-16-2006, 10:32 PM
I honestly can't think of a QB who I think is a) overrated, and b) has been in the league 5 years at least. I know there's one out there and it will probably come to me after I hit the "Post Quick Reply" button. I'm just drawing a blank for some reason.

That reason is I have a QB question on my mind inspired by the responses in this thread. People ask you to name the best QB and it's usually pretty easy. They ask you to name the most overrated and everyone has an opinion (even me if I could just remember what it was). Likewise everyone can tell you who the busts were.

So would everyone please name one QB who was, in your opinion, basically a victim of the team who drafted him. Name the best QB who's talents were completely squandered because he played on a lousy team or for crummy coaches. Maybe he played in a bad system or got no protection, or he was put in a no-win situation and asked to follow a legend.

Name the one guy who didn't work out who you think would have IF he'd been in a better situation.
Patrick Ramsey. Redskins didn't want him when they drafted him at the end of the first round. Couldn't start because he didn't go to the U. of Fla under the old ball coach. Gibes came in and got Brunell. Then wash drafted Campbell in the first round. With Ramsey not getting reps. in practice with the first team, then having to go in and play more or less cold after the Fla.crew failed and Brunell floped his first year in Wash, Ramsey lost any time to develop and looked worse than he might have been if given time to develop. Will never know if Ramsey would have been good or not. If he had been drafted by thats say Dallas, things might have been different.

TwinSisters
05-16-2006, 11:25 PM
Tom Brady most overrated.

Premise: Super Bowl teams and playing the visible role on a Super Bowl teams
Overrated defined in the classical sense: given a higher rating by majority then what the actual rating would most likely be. Not meaning a poor QB, but 'overrated'.

Given a list to name the highest rated QBs, Brady would crack the top ten in all 50 States ( except maybe not Alaska ).

IF Brady played some where besides New England, would he have looked so neat and clean? There is not a lot of evidence to boost this claim, but I do point to one tuck call and the fact that Bledsoe ( a commonly listed overrated QB ) was able to guide the same team through a championship game .

If Brady was really the secret sauce they should have failed with out him.
----

What up with calling Bartkowski and Namath overrated?

Both played hurt when they should have hung it up. See NFL Films Lost Treasures. When they were healthy they were on top of the NFL. Bartkowski two Pro-Bowl years in his only complete seasons. Namath... well he was little beat up by the time the merger came along, in the meantime he was cooking the rankings from 65-72 while playing on only one Super Bowl team.

Kaiser Toro
05-16-2006, 11:44 PM
What up with calling Bartkowski and Namath overrated?

This may be the first time in internet history that two people have debated whether or not Steve Bartkowski was over rated. Since we are chartering unchartered waters I will use my words carefully with undaunted respect. Over rated is not a quantifiable statistic as it totally resides with the perception of that point in time. Having watched football religiously since 1976 I remember Bartkowski's hype being huge. Very nice player but promoted heavily for only a good QB in my opinion

jgl35
05-17-2006, 08:30 AM
This may be the first time in internet history that two people have debated whether or not Steve Bartkowski was over rated. Since we are chartering unchartered waters I will use my words carefully with undaunted respect. Over rated is not a quantifiable statistic as it totally resides with the perception of that point in time. Having watched football religiously since 1976 I remember Bartkowski's hype being huge. Very nice player but promoted heavily for only a good QB in my opinion
The Falcons retired his number 10. But I will aggre with you. I didn't think he was all that great.

kastofsna
05-17-2006, 08:34 AM
Troy Aikman
Jim McMahon
Phil Simms
Pat Haden
Steve Bartkowski
Ken Anderson
Boomer Esiason
Jeff Garcia

Mostly large market guys will be the overrated variety. Just like Parcells on the coaching side. Without the NY media and a coked up LT, we would never have heard about Parcells' greatness.
excellent list. i think garcia has redeemed himself though by proving he didn't deserve to be so overrated at one point. i think mcmahon is on top of overrated mountain though.

Maddict5
05-17-2006, 10:12 AM
IF Brady played some where besides New England, would he have looked so neat and clean? There is not a lot of evidence to boost this claim, but I do point to one tuck call and the fact that Bledsoe ( a commonly listed overrated QB ) was able to guide the same team through a championship game .
If Brady was really the secret sauce they should have failed with out him.
----



thats 1 game.......personally i think any1 who calls brady overrated is crazy especially after last year when he got them to the playoffs with so many injuries

pittbull
05-17-2006, 10:26 AM
1. Joe Montana. Good QB, but in a great system. Everyone who played in the system had success!
2. Ken Stabler
3. Doug Williams - A few good years
4. Bernie Kosar
5. Jeff George

TheOgre
05-17-2006, 10:34 AM
Flutie won four Most Outstanding Player awards, threw for 45667 yards, had a 59.8 completion percentage, and threw for 297 TD's in 9 seasons of USFL and CFL play. He might not have done it in the NFL, but it's still pro football.


...and Dave Ragone got MVP award in NFL Europe.

I'm not saying that Flutie had no talent, but I really don't see a big difference between him and guys like Testeverde or Dilfer. I think he is held in higher esteem than his abilities and production merit. That to me is the definition of overrated.

GoPats
05-17-2006, 11:29 AM
What about McNabb's Superbowl performance? Word is he was blowing chunks in the huddle.

FILO_girl
05-17-2006, 11:51 AM
Ill catch hell from any lurking jag fan.. but Byron Leftwich.

Now, dont get me wrong, I think he is a talented QB. but according to the talking heads, and many other fans, he is the second coming of Joe Montana. Apparently he has a rocket for an arm (uh..no) pinpoint accuracy (no again), size (what good is size without durability or mobility?), clutch instincts (ok.. ill give ya that), and leadership skills (sure)

The fact of the matter is that Byron is a "clutch" QB (really... he is not that much better in a clutch situation than many other QBs), and he has leadership qualities. What he DOESNT have is a really strong arm (average), great accuracy (average), or anything resembling durability, or mobility.

All in all.. id say he is an average, to above average QB.. with a promising future in the NFL if the team is built to his strengths.. but he is NOT some rising superstar. Id compare him to Jake Delhomme.. he will get the job done, but the potential isnt there to dominate his position.

I think that Lefty is a great QB for the Jags, and have posted that at the Litterbox too. While mobility is not his thang, he does have a football mind and knows how to play the game. The Jags would be smart to build around him, IMO.

One of the notable problems Lefty has (not counting his love of buffet and need for the Scooter Store on game day...hey, I am a rival fan and have to say this stuff) is the heavy criticism the fans give him (he took them 12-4 and still gets crap for it, imagine the pedestal David would be on here if he did that for us), plus the minority white clad fans who don't care for his skin tone. Sad in this day and age. He does have great pocket presence, something I hope David is able to achieve and enjoy this year.

Being nice to Jags makes me ill. I will be nauseated the rest of the day. Great.

texan279
05-17-2006, 12:01 PM
...and Dave Ragone got MVP award in NFL Europe.

I'm not saying that Flutie had no talent, but I really don't see a big difference between him and guys like Testeverde or Dilfer. I think he is held in higher esteem than his abilities and production merit. That to me is the definition of overrated.

It's the pro football hall of fame, not the NFL hall of fame.

WWJD
05-17-2006, 12:27 PM
I think this thread took a silly turn when Tom Brady and Troy Aikman are listed as overrated. Holy cow.

mancunian
05-17-2006, 12:44 PM
Man I am so surprised that no-one has mentioned Kerry Collins!
There is a case to argue that Peyton Manning is overrated. He's behind one of the best lines in the NFL, has 3 great wide recievers and did have a great RB behind him. What QB wouldn't be able to put up good numbers with those weapons.
Look what happened when the Steelers put pressure on him - and when the O-line disappeared in the play offs last season - didn't look so hot then huh?:stirpot:

BigBull17
05-17-2006, 12:45 PM
I am going to take a shelling over this but Peyton Manning. I know he is considered the best QB in modern football, and I know he puts up huge numbers year in and year out, but if he is going to be the best he needs to win when it counts. Who cares about the TD record or the 4000 yd seasons if they get knocked silly and eliminated early in the playoffs year after year. And I know it is a team game and you cant blame one guy, but if you are called the best the NFL has to offer, then you need to drag your team through and not look like a rookie QB once you take a shot to the jaw. Ok go ahead and flame on.:twocents:

TwinSisters
05-17-2006, 02:06 PM
I agree with Manning being overrated also, but only slightly so. He has been rated as the best QB several years without ever playing on a Super Bowl team.
---

thats 1 game.......personally i think any1 who calls brady overrated is crazy especially after last year when he got them to the playoffs with so many injuries

that's two games... and that tuck game was a pivotal turning point in the history of the NFL. It's quite possible ( or plausible ) that had the call flipped, Gruden would not have left Oakland. Oakland would have seized 2 Rings under Gruden... Dungy would not have left/been forced out of Tampa and the Colts would not have Dungy. No Dungy in Indy, Colts spank Pats.. because the Colts would have picked up Tuna instead of the Cowpicks. Brady no longer overrated. Manning overrated magna cum laude.
---

Bartkowski was always under rated because of the likes of Dan Fouts and Dan Marino. I remember having Topps Bartkowski cards and not being able to conduct any kind of bountiful trades... but if I had a Dan Marino or Fouts card, I could shenagle 5 to 10 Oilers out of any kid on the block. That is pretty good evidence that Bartkowski was not overrated at that point in time.

kastofsna
05-17-2006, 02:15 PM
that's two games... and that tuck game was a pivotal turning point in the history of the NFL. It's quite possible ( or plausible ) that had the call flipped, Gruden would not have left Oakland. Oakland would have seized 2 Rings under Gruden... Dungy would not have left/been forced out of Tampa and the Colts would not have Dungy. No Dungy in Indy, Colts spank Pats.. Brady no longer overrated. Manning overrated magna cum laude.
what does the dungy firing have to do with anything? and indy would be better without dungy? hysterical.

Hulk75
05-17-2006, 02:45 PM
Daunte Cullpepper at the time he had Randy Moss.

GoPats
05-17-2006, 03:39 PM
that's two games... and that tuck game was a pivotal turning point in the history of the NFL. It's quite possible ( or plausible ) that had the call flipped, Gruden would not have left Oakland. Oakland would have seized 2 Rings under Gruden... Dungy would not have left/been forced out of Tampa and the Colts would not have Dungy. No Dungy in Indy, Colts spank Pats.. because the Colts would have picked up Tuna instead of the Cowpicks. Brady no longer overrated. Manning overrated magna cum laude.

So let me get this straight. If there had been no "tuck rule," then...

1. George Bush would have found Saddam Hussein's WMDs...

2. Kerry would have won the '04 election...

3. Hurricane Katrina would have veered out to sea and teetered out into a mild breeze...

4. The Columbia disaster would have been averted...

5. Drew Bledsoe would still be the Pats' QB...

Whew, thank God for the tuck rule then. It would really suck if Drew were still our QB.

TheOgre
05-17-2006, 03:41 PM
It's the pro football hall of fame, not the NFL hall of fame.

I realize that. I also realize that Moon got in to the HOF based partially on his CFL stats. The big difference is that Moon was successful in the NFL, whereas Flutie was marginal at best in the NFL.

Fldvldog
05-17-2006, 03:53 PM
I think that Lefty is a great QB for the Jags, and have posted that at the Litterbox too. While mobility is not his thang, he does have a football mind and knows how to play the game. The Jags would be smart to build around him, IMO.

One of the notable problems Lefty has (not counting his love of buffet and need for the Scooter Store on game day...hey, I am a rival fan and have to say this stuff) is the heavy criticism the fans give him (he took them 12-4 and still gets crap for it, imagine the pedestal David would be on here if he did that for us), plus the minority white clad fans who don't care for his skin tone. Sad in this day and age. He does have great pocket presence, something I hope David is able to achieve and enjoy this year.

Being nice to Jags makes me ill. I will be nauseated the rest of the day. Great.

i knew you had a love for the Jags in ya' Filo! :bananasplit:

FILO_girl
05-17-2006, 04:05 PM
i knew you had a love for the Jags in ya' Filo! :bananasplit:
I wouldn't call it love......:)

TwinSisters
05-17-2006, 04:16 PM
what does the dungy firing have to do with anything? and indy would be better without dungy? hysterical.

Uh I don't know? Tampa in the playoffs every year never getting past the big one. Dungy gone, Gruden shows up and Tampa wins the Super Bowl. ( you think that much of the team changed? Even if it did.. who made the changes? )

Dungy shows up in Indy. Colts in the playoffs every year but can't win the big one ( again ). The Colts could have picked up Parcells and that would have changed the landscape for other coaches. Since Parcells was on the market, the Colts picked up Dungy, because the Bucs fired Dungy thinking they were going to get Parcells ( so that they could WIN a playoff game which they couldn't do with Dungy ).
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs01/columns/pasquarelli_len/1313478.html

What that has to do with QB ratings: Super Bowls count for how a QB is rated ( never really accurate, but that is the way it is ). If Dungy is not in Indy and they picked up a coach with a killer instinct, Pats have no dynasty. Brady is no longer a legend. Manning is gets an overrated boost.

and it all traces back to one fumble in the snow.
---

Ditto on all the Vikings QBs with Moss. George, Cunningham, Johnson, Culpepper, Gus Frerotte... everyone of them looked like HOFers in that offense.

TwinSisters
05-17-2006, 04:39 PM
So let me get this straight. If there had been no "tuck rule," then...


it's a fumble and the Pats are no longer illegitimate contenders to the throne.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tom+Brady+Tuck+Rule

kastofsna
05-17-2006, 10:08 PM
Uh I don't know? Tampa in the playoffs every year never getting past the big one. Dungy gone, Gruden shows up and Tampa wins the Super Bowl. ( you think that much of the team changed? Even if it did.. who made the changes? )

Dungy shows up in Indy. Colts in the playoffs every year but can't win the big one ( again ). The Colts could have picked up Parcells and that would have changed the landscape for other coaches. Since Parcells was on the market, the Colts picked up Dungy, because the Bucs fired Dungy thinking they were going to get Parcells ( so that they could WIN a playoff game which they couldn't do with Dungy ).
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs01/columns/pasquarelli_len/1313478.html

What that has to do with QB ratings: Super Bowls count for how a QB is rated ( never really accurate, but that is the way it is ). If Dungy is not in Indy and they picked up a coach with a killer instinct, Pats have no dynasty. Brady is no longer a legend. Manning is gets an overrated boost.

and it all traces back to one fumble in the snow.
the bucs were primed to win the super bowl. gruden got there at the right time. it was dungy's team and everyone knows it. parcells wasn't on the market at all that year, something the bucs were unaware of. the tuck rule had nothing to do with it. dungy would've gone to the colts, as he was the best coach out there (a defensive guy at that) and they needed defense bad. you can call it a fumble all you want, the rule stated that it wasn't.

this choking nonsense is getting ridiculous. especially with COACHES. please tell me how dungy has "choked" in the playoffs. give me examples. no guy with the nerves of steel that dungy has will "choke" in the playoffs. absurd.

he didn't win playoff games in tampa because they had no offense. they were on the road two years in a row against philadelphia, a BETTER TEAM, and lost to them. the year before that, they overachieved with a rookie shaun king at QB and lost to st. louis--a BETTER TEAM--by a score of 11-6.

so instead of thinking what would've happened if a ref made the WRONG call, worry about what actually happened when the RIGHT call was made.

TwinSisters
05-18-2006, 01:32 AM
this choking nonsense is getting ridiculous. especially with COACHES. please tell me how dungy has "choked" in the playoffs. give me examples. no guy with the nerves of steel that dungy has will "choke" in the playoffs. absurd.

he didn't win playoff games in tampa because they had no offense. they were on the road two years in a row against philadelphia, a BETTER TEAM, and lost to them. the year before that, they overachieved with a rookie shaun king at QB and lost to st. louis--a BETTER TEAM--by a score of 11-6.


Who said anything about choking? ( not that coaches don't choke Jimmy Johnson/Pardee )

Carefully read your second paragraph. Who makes the call for who starts at quarterback? What guy makes the decision about who plays and who doesn't?
Then ask yourself where is Shaun King now? How smart is it to have a rookie starting in a championship game? One that is not even overrated at that. Then ask yourself yet again what guy was sitting on the bench that went on to win a Super Bowl on a defensive team in another city under a different coach the following year? Be it that he was hurt, but benched early.

Of course the Eagles were 'better'... that's why they lost to Gruden and the Bucs and then went on to the Super Bowl after the Bucs had to reload.

Youngstown Colt
05-18-2006, 03:01 AM
Jeff George? I never knew anyone thought he was good.

In fact, where are the people that thought he was good? Because he was the #1 pick means nothing, we all knew he was garbage.

TheOgre
05-18-2006, 07:35 AM
Then why did he get chance after chance to start (Indy, Atlanta, Oakland, Minnesota, Washington)? He fooled several someones.

kastofsna
05-18-2006, 08:29 AM
Carefully read your second paragraph. Who makes the call for who starts at quarterback? What guy makes the decision about who plays and who doesn't?
Then ask yourself where is Shaun King now? How smart is it to have a rookie starting in a championship game? One that is not even overrated at that. Then ask yourself yet again what guy was sitting on the bench that went on to win a Super Bowl on a defensive team in another city under a different coach the following year? Be it that he was hurt, but benched early.

Of course the Eagles were 'better'... that's why they lost to Gruden and the Bucs and then went on to the Super Bowl after the Bucs had to reload.
shaun king was started to win when they benched dilfer and put him in. then they won against the redskins in the 2nd round of the playoffs with him starting. why bench the guy that's playing so effective? i'm sure if dungy knew that dilfer would become less sucky a year later he would've kept him in there.

the eagles were better than the bucs that year. obviously the bucs were better the next year.

Eagles78
05-18-2006, 09:06 AM
Daunte Culpepper. Even after his awful first 7 games last year all the experts think he's going to tear it up in MIA which I think is BS. Plus he's got the bad knee now:crutch:

TheOgre
05-18-2006, 10:32 AM
Daunte Culpepper. Even after his awful first 7 games last year all the experts think he's going to tear it up in MIA which I think is BS. Plus he's got the bad knee now:crutch:

I disagree. He injured his knee in the first game and should have been put on the shelf then. Instead the Vikes continued to let him play injured, and it made it worse.

"Tice indicated the injury occurred during the season-opening loss to Tampa Bay."
http://www.profootballwire.com/minnesota_vikings.html

Also, people forget how incredible he was in 2004 despite the fact that Moss was injured much of the season. As soon as Culpepper is healthy, he will make Miami look like geniuses. I think Saban has them moving in the right direction.

kastofsna
05-18-2006, 11:10 AM
I disagree. He injured his knee in the first game and should have been put on the shelf then. Instead the Vikes continued to let him play injured, and it made it worse.

"Tice indicated the injury occurred during the season-opening loss to Tampa Bay."
http://www.profootballwire.com/minnesota_vikings.html

Also, people forget how incredible he was in 2004 despite the fact that Moss was injured much of the season. As soon as Culpepper is healthy, he will make Miami look like geniuses. I think Saban has them moving in the right direction.
YOU are the genius here sir! bravo

TwinSisters
05-18-2006, 12:54 PM
I disagree. He injured his knee in the first game and should have been put on the shelf then. Instead the Vikes continued to let him play injured, and it made it worse.

"Tice indicated the injury occurred during the season-opening loss to Tampa Bay."
http://www.profootballwire.com/minnesota_vikings.html


False. Or 20/20 hindsight.

EDIT: Actually not false, but not a complete ding on Tice or Culpepper for thinking they could play through his injury. Since other players have played through the same type of injury. It's true that in hindsight, he should have rested his knee.

Players play with sprained MCLs all the time. He had a bye week to rest it.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/print/2991/

Vick was running on a sprained MCL and it didn't end his season. He played 15 games and pretty much put up the same stats ( -minus rush,+ completions ).
---

Although this has nothing to do with how he will play in Miami. He may very well come out blazing... I am watching just to see what he does. Moss didn't reignite the Raiders ( although I wonder how much the D had to do with that )

Vick overrated?
Culpepper overrated?

Maddict5
05-18-2006, 01:05 PM
I agree with Manning being overrated also, but only slightly so. He has been rated as the best QB several years without ever playing on a Super Bowl team.
---


that's two games... and that tuck game was a pivotal turning point in the history of the NFL. It's quite possible ( or plausible ) that had the call flipped, Gruden would not have left Oakland. Oakland would have seized 2 Rings under Gruden... Dungy would not have left/been forced out of Tampa and the Colts would not have Dungy. No Dungy in Indy, Colts spank Pats.. because the Colts would have picked up Tuna instead of the Cowpicks. Brady no longer overrated. Manning overrated magna cum laude.
---

Bartkowski was always under rated because of the likes of Dan Fouts and Dan Marino. I remember having Topps Bartkowski cards and not being able to conduct any kind of bountiful trades... but if I had a Dan Marino or Fouts card, I could shenagle 5 to 10 Oilers out of any kid on the block. That is pretty good evidence that Bartkowski was not overrated at that point in time.

hi i was wondering could you tell me if im going to like my new job seeing as you can predict everything that would've happened ever.....i personally think Tom Brady's being 'overrated' began in 1995 when the pats....:rolleyes: :ok:

seriously though you're making some of the most clueless comments ive seen in a long time:tease:

TwinSisters
05-18-2006, 01:27 PM
seriously though you're making some of the most clueless comments ive seen in a long time:tease:

That's fine. It goes with territory when looking at a QB that is overrated from Super Bowl rings. But I doubt you would be thinking the observations look as clueless when talking about Bradshaw ( that only a handful of pundits would still rate him as high as he is, HOF, without the Super Bowl rings ).

Yet you still see guys that rate Brady,Aikman higher then Montana,Bradshaw. Three to four on both counts. ( and I am not saying they don't count, I say they make it more likely to be overrated )

Dungy story is not mine either... I am just passing it along.

tsip
05-18-2006, 11:26 PM
I honestly can't think of a QB who I think is a) overrated, and b) has been in the league 5 years at least. I know there's one out there and it will probably come to me after I hit the "Post Quick Reply" button. I'm just drawing a blank for some reason.

That reason is I have a QB question on my mind inspired by the responses in this thread. People ask you to name the best QB and it's usually pretty easy. They ask you to name the most overrated and everyone has an opinion (even me if I could just remember what it was). Likewise everyone can tell you who the busts were.

So would everyone please name one QB who was, in your opinion, basically a victim of the team who drafted him. Name the best QB who's talents were completely squandered because he played on a lousy team or for crummy coaches. Maybe he played in a bad system or got no protection, or he was put in a no-win situation and asked to follow a legend.

Name the one guy who didn't work out who you think would have IF he'd been in a better situation.

Archie Manning

swtbound07
05-19-2006, 12:36 AM
im am SICK of mike vick being called overrated. He wins games (has one of the best winning percentages as a starter since he came into the league)

Has had TWO successfull playoff runs (successful being defined as going and then winning at least one game)

Has been elected to multiple pro bowls

So lets review...wins games...check
has the respect of his peers-obviously, entire defenses scheme for him...check
has the respect of the fans....obviously, as evidenced by the probowl votes...check
can perform well under the pressure of the playoffs.-win At lambeau field, trip to nfc championship game...check.
Leave him alone. If the object of the game was to pass for 4000 yards a year, peyton manning would be the best qb. The object is to WIN. Vick wins. Not overrated...if anything, underrated.

TwinSisters
05-19-2006, 02:03 AM
Blame ESPN for the Vick overrated tag. Even Fox with Bradshaw...

Specifically Joe Theismann just went nuts with over praise of Vick a few years ago and I think that just rubbed enough people wrong. Then there was Jones in Dallas and his Quincy Vick clone experiment that he brought from Korea and it's possible even Vince Young got a few more looks because of the Vick media frenzy.

I wish had a recording of Joe giving it up for Vick... this was the closest I could find

(9/24/02) After taking an absurd amount of heat, WR Brian Finneran came through with a big game on national television, scoring 2 TDs amidst the three-hour “I Love Michael Vick” orgy on ESPN. Joe Theisman was almost orgasmic in his endless and pandering praise over the still developing Vick, who still has a long way to go to be a top-notch quarterback.

kastofsna
05-19-2006, 08:40 AM
im am SICK of mike vick being called overrated. He wins games (has one of the best winning percentages as a starter since he came into the league)

Has had TWO successfull playoff runs (successful being defined as going and then winning at least one game)

Has been elected to multiple pro bowls

So lets review...wins games...check
has the respect of his peers-obviously, entire defenses scheme for him...check
has the respect of the fans....obviously, as evidenced by the probowl votes...check
can perform well under the pressure of the playoffs.-win At lambeau field, trip to nfc championship game...check.
Leave him alone. If the object of the game was to pass for 4000 yards a year, peyton manning would be the best qb. The object is to WIN. Vick wins. Not overrated...if anything, underrated.
jay fiedler was 2nd in the league in winning percentage for the 3 years he started in miami. it means nothing. vick is a TERRIBLE quarterback.

kastofsna
05-19-2006, 08:44 AM
Specifically Joe Theismann just went nuts with over praise of Vick a few years ago and I think that just rubbed enough people wrong. Then there was Jones in Dallas and his Quincy Vick clone experiment that he brought from Korea and it's possible even Vince Young got a few more looks because of the Vick media frenzy.

I wish had a recording of Joe giving it up for Vick... this was the closest I could find
one of the most embarassing things i've ever seen/heard. it's one thing to get off on GOOD players, but when the QB is constantly throwing the ball poorly and making bad decisions, you sure look like an idiot saying "michael probably shouldn't have made that decision, but i think he knows what he's doing." wtf? i remember that game vividly. someone on atlanta's defense got a sack on 3rd down and theissman said "he got that sack because michael vick is back!" seriously....pathetic.

Youngstown Colt
05-19-2006, 10:51 AM
Then why did he get chance after chance to start (Indy, Atlanta, Oakland, Minnesota, Washington)? He fooled several someones.He's your classic hall of fame practice player. You're always gonna get a chance if you have a rocket arm, no matter if you have accuracy or not.

Youngstown Colt
05-19-2006, 10:51 AM
Then why did he get chance after chance to start (Indy, Atlanta, Oakland, Minnesota, Washington)? He fooled several someones.He's your classic hall of fame practice player. You're always gonna get a chance if you have a rocket arm, no matter if you have accuracy or not.

swtbound07
05-19-2006, 10:57 AM
jay fiedler was 2nd in the league in winning percentage for the 3 years he started in miami. it means nothing. vick is a TERRIBLE quarterback.


so winning means nothing?? What does matter then, if not winning? Yes he makes some bad throws. But if you are going to knock him for that, then you have to knock Everybody...specially brett favre, because he consistently makes bad decisions, but people shrug it off because he is Favre

DominickDavisFan76
05-19-2006, 07:37 PM
I think you would classify Ryan more of a bust than being over rated.


Everyone rated him to put up numbers like peyton manning......................................Ya that happened.....NOT.

mancunian
05-20-2006, 08:07 AM
im am SICK of mike vick being called overrated. He wins games (has one of the best winning percentages as a starter since he came into the league)

Has had TWO successfull playoff runs (successful being defined as going and then winning at least one game)

Has been elected to multiple pro bowls

So lets review...wins games...check
has the respect of his peers-obviously, entire defenses scheme for him...check
has the respect of the fans....obviously, as evidenced by the probowl votes...check
can perform well under the pressure of the playoffs.-win At lambeau field, trip to nfc championship game...check.
Leave him alone. If the object of the game was to pass for 4000 yards a year, peyton manning would be the best qb. The object is to WIN. Vick wins. Not overrated...if anything, underrated.

He didn't win the Falcons won and I think the trip to the NFC game was more to do with the Falcons defence.
Even if you wanna say that he's the reason that they won - he's still not very good at doing things a QB needs to do like throwing the football. His % completion rate last year was 54%.

DallasNiner
05-23-2006, 10:41 AM
1. Joe Montana. Good QB, but in a great system. Everyone who played in the system had success!

Ok....you just called the hands down greatest QB of all time overrated?

real
05-23-2006, 11:20 AM
im am SICK of mike vick being called overrated. He wins games (has one of the best winning percentages as a starter since he came into the league)

Has had TWO successfull playoff runs (successful being defined as going and then winning at least one game)

Has been elected to multiple pro bowls

So lets review...wins games...check
has the respect of his peers-obviously, entire defenses scheme for him...check
has the respect of the fans....obviously, as evidenced by the probowl votes...check
can perform well under the pressure of the playoffs.-win At lambeau field, trip to nfc championship game...check.
Leave him alone. If the object of the game was to pass for 4000 yards a year, peyton manning would be the best qb. The object is to WIN. Vick wins. Not overrated...if anything, underrated.

Exactly...People like to say vick is not good because he doesn't fit their mould...Vick is a winner...The end

PsychoLove
05-23-2006, 11:58 AM
Exactly...People like to say vick is not good because he doesn't fit their mould...Vick is a winner...The end


Lame............What has he won? The end............

swtbound07
05-23-2006, 12:09 PM
He didn't win the Falcons won and I think the trip to the NFC game was more to do with the Falcons defence.
Even if you wanna say that he's the reason that they won - he's still not very good at doing things a QB needs to do like throwing the football. His % completion rate last year was 54%.


It doesnt matter that you dont think he won. He did. Check HIS winning percentage as a starter, and notice the falcons abysmal winning percentage the season he was sidelined with injury. He is VERY good at doing the main thing a qb needs to to, and thats lead his team to victory.

swtbound07
05-23-2006, 12:10 PM
Lame............What has he won? The end............

3 playoff games, an NFC south title, and as many rings as manning and marino COMBINED

kastofsna
05-23-2006, 12:40 PM
It doesnt matter that you dont think he won. He did. Check HIS winning percentage as a starter, and notice the falcons abysmal winning percentage the season he was sidelined with injury. He is VERY good at doing the main thing a qb needs to to, and thats lead his team to victory.
go find out what the game of football is before posting. 22 guys. not 1 guy. sorry.

ojthecat
05-23-2006, 12:50 PM
Vinny Testavertie

swtbound07
05-23-2006, 12:54 PM
go find out what the game of football is before posting. 22 guys. not 1 guy. sorry.


So quarterbacks cant win games? It is a team sport, but if you look at the numbers without him and the numbers with him, you can definitely see a difference. He might not be the entire team, but he is a very large part of it

TEXANRED
05-23-2006, 01:14 PM
So would everyone please name one QB who was, in your opinion, basically a victim of the team who drafted him. Name the best QB who's talents were completely squandered because he played on a lousy team or for crummy coaches. Maybe he played in a bad system or got no protection, or he was put in a no-win situation and asked to follow a legend.

Name the one guy who didn't work out who you think would have IF he'd been in a better situation.
Any QB who had played for the Oilers
Any QB who had played for Tampa - Young became a HOF after he left.
Any QB who had played for the Browns
Any QB who had played for the Texans - HA HA
Any QB who played for the Saints
Brian Griese
Who was after Jim Kelley?
Was Fiedler after Marino?
Bono - Any one remember him?
Jeff Garcia
Billy Joe Toliver - Ha HA! No I am kidding.

I am sure there is more but that is all I can think of.

PsychoLove
05-23-2006, 10:06 PM
3 playoff games, an NFC south title, and as many rings as manning and marino COMBINED


They all have zero..........................Isn't the goal Super Bowl rings????

swtbound07
05-24-2006, 10:50 AM
They all have zero..........................Isn't the goal Super Bowl rings????

I was making the point that gaudy passing statistics dont guarantee you rings

kastofsna
05-24-2006, 12:27 PM
apparently neither does having a higher career YPC than YPA.

PsychoLove
05-24-2006, 01:21 PM
I was making the point that gaudy passing statistics dont guarantee you rings


My bad.........:thumbup

TheOgre
05-24-2006, 04:18 PM
3 playoff games, an NFC south title, and as many rings as manning and marino COMBINED

He also has as many rings as Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Andre Ware, David Klingler, Tim Couch, and Akili Smith all combined too. His mom would be proud. The ring thing is WAY overrated IMO.

I will agree that Vick has a way of winning games...and what else can you really ask of him. It isn't like he had the surrounding cast that Fiedler did in Miami for all of those years (I think Oliver Luck in his prime* would have had a winning record with those Miami teams).


* I couldn't even type that with a straight face. I should have said "when he was young".

swtbound07
05-24-2006, 04:23 PM
He also has as many rings as Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Andre Ware, David Klingler, Tim Couch, and Akili Smith all combined too. His mom would be proud. The ring thing is WAY overrated IMO.

I will agree that Vick has a way of winning games...and what else can you really ask of him. It isn't like he had the surrounding cast that Fiedler did in Miami for all of those years (I think Oliver Luck in his prime* would have had a winning record with those Miami teams).


* I couldn't even type that with a straight face. I should have said "when he was young".


Thank you...that is my point in a nutshell

Shamrock
05-25-2006, 12:46 AM
Drew Brees is WAY overrated.