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View Full Version : The House that Gary/Rex Built.


thunderkyss
11-23-2012, 09:41 AM
So what do you think?

In 2009, Rex Ryan inherited the 9-7 NYJets that failed to make the play-offs & turned them into a 9-7 team that backed into the play-offs. They went on a magical run that culminated with a close loss in the AFC Championship.

They followed that up with an 11-5 season & another loss in the AFC Championship game.

In 2009, Kubiak's fourth season with the Texans. Considered by some to have underachieved in the previous three seasons (6-10, 8-8, 8-8) finally managed a winning season (9-7), but no play-off appearance.

2010, the Texans field one of the worst pass defenses in the history of the league & finish the season 6-10.

===================================

2011, rumblings from inside the Jets locker room become public. They finish the season 8-8

Meanwhile the Texans finish with a franchise best 10-6 season despite missing many key players throughout the season (Foster, Schaub, & Andre played less than 50 snaps together or something like that)... They host a play-off game as winners of the AFC South, they win that game against the Bengals & lose in Baltimore due to a rookie QB, and sub-par special teams play.

2012, The Jets have got to win out just to finish 9-7. The Texans can lose the rest of the way & finish 10-6. The Texans have been favored to win almost every game this season & are generally considered the favorites to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl.

=====================================


If you were told that you could be the head coach of either of these teams, but you've got to win in 2013, winning will be defined as simply a winning season. Nothing about division champs, nothing about play-offs, all you have to do is have a winning season in 2013.....

which team would you pick? Imagine you can name your price for a wining season & you're permanently banned from any NFL activity in the future if you're 8-8 or worse.

Which HC/GM did a better job of building a team?

ObsiWan
11-23-2012, 10:01 AM
which team would you pick? Imagine you can name your price for a wining season & you're permanently banned from any NFL activity in the future if you're 8-8 or worse.


That's a bit extreme isn't it?

Insideop
11-23-2012, 10:04 AM
So what do you think?

In 2009, Rex Ryan inherited the 9-7 NYJets that failed to make the play-offs & turned them into a 9-7 team that backed into the play-offs. They went on a magical run that culminated with a close loss in the AFC Championship.

They followed that up with an 11-5 season & another loss in the AFC Championship game.

In 2009, Kubiak's fourth season with the Texans. Considered by some to have underachieved in the previous three seasons (6-10, 8-8, 8-8) finally managed a winning season (9-7), but no play-off appearance.

2010, the Texans field one of the worst pass defenses in the history of the league & finish the season 6-10.

===================================

2011, rumblings from inside the Jets locker room become public. They finish the season 8-8

Meanwhile the Texans finish with a franchise best 10-6 season despite missing many key players throughout the season (Foster, Schaub, & Andre played less than 50 snaps together or something like that)... They host a play-off game as winners of the AFC South, they win that game against the Bengals & lose in Baltimore due to a rookie QB, and sub-par special teams play.

2012, The Jets have got to win out just to finish 9-7. The Texans can lose the rest of the way & finish 10-6. The Texans have been favored to win almost every game this season & are generally considered the favorites to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl.

=====================================


If you were told that you could be the head coach of either of these teams, but you've got to win in 2013, winning will be defined as simply a winning season. Nothing about division champs, nothing about play-offs, all you have to do is have a winning season in 2013.....

which team would you pick? Imagine you can name your price for a wining season & you're permanently banned from any NFL activity in the future if you're 8-8 or worse.

Which HC/GM did a better job of building a team?

Both of these questions are "no brainers" to me at least. The Texans are in better shape now (personnel wise) than the Jets, which only proves the 2nd question of which HC/GM did a better job of building a team. Right now, I'd say the Jets are in shambles, especially with their butt kicking loss last night to NE. Don't think ole Rex is gonna have a job there much longer. Not sure about the GM and don't know who he is, but I gotta think he's on the "hot seat" too.

The Texans are being built for the long haul, which is what McNair wants. A team, like the Steelers, who win consistently year in and year out and compete for, and win, multiple Super Bowls.

Hookem Horns
11-23-2012, 10:10 AM
The Jets signed Tim Tebow this offseason. Is this really even debatable?

thunderkyss
11-23-2012, 10:19 AM
Right now, I'd say the Jets are in shambles, especially with their butt kicking loss last night to NE.

The Texans are being built for the long haul...

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. In 2009, in 2010, some here was using Rex's success to highlight Gary's failure. Even then, there were those who said there's a right way & a wrong way to build a team. I'm not a Kubiak fan, though I've always wanted him to succeed, since he is from Houston & I've always been impressed with his command of the locker room.

Hindsight, we can see the Jets were built on nothing but fluff. They were a talentless team then, they are a talentless team now. They sold out for the wins, but imo they wasted the last 4 years.

The Texans could have won more games in that time period acquiring other free agents, trading draft picks, ignoring faults, playing aggresive & care free. But we'd be a different team today. Wins would be the end-all-be-all instead of character & integrity.

A coach going to the Jets have nothing to work with. Absolutely nothing but bad contracts & aging players. A coach coming to the Texans will have a young talented team & an organization behind him that knows how to win.

Now, just because Rex is a failure with the NYJ doesn't mean that the way we did it is the only way to do it. You can look at San Francisco, which appear to be the real deal, but the difference there is that Harbough took over a talented team with a solid organization (who had been accumulating talent) behind him. Detroit appears to have followed the same path as the NYJ. Except they've been doing a better job of accumulating talent. If that's the organization (which I believe it is) they'll be a force in the near future.

In fact, Detroit looks just like us, only 2 years back. They're a young team in a mature division. Greenbay appears to be their Colts. Chicago their Jags & Minnesota their Titans. Greenbay is probably going to own that division for the next couple of years, the Bears are going to challenge, & the Vikings are going to swing from really good to really bad, but the Lions are going to have to battle that every year until Rogers has a neck issue & get released from the division.

ObsiWan
11-23-2012, 10:28 AM
Why the "H" would I chose to play Tom Brady twice, an up-and-coming Miami team twice, and Buffalo twice when I can get 5 - 6 almost for sure wins by staying in the AFC South??
:D

ChampionTexan
11-23-2012, 11:12 AM
Why the "H" would I chose to play Tom Brady twice, an up-and-coming Miami team twice, and Buffalo twice when I can get 5 - 6 almost for sure wins by staying in the AFC South??
:D

Because it's still the AFC, and everybody knows that in the AFC even average teams can go 10-1!

steelbtexan
11-23-2012, 02:38 PM
Why the "H" would I chose to play Tom Brady twice, an up-and-coming Miami team twice, and Buffalo twice when I can get 5 - 6 almost for sure wins by staying in the AFC South??
:D

Yep, the main reason the Texans should dominate the AFC South for the next 3 yrs or so, is everybody else has young QB's and young teams. They are where the Texans were pre-Wade.

Fiddler, winning should be a be all end all. If you can also have integrity also that's a plus. It's why they keep score. BoB's directive was to build this team so that corporations would fill the seats, winning be damned. He did a good job.

Corrosion
11-23-2012, 07:39 PM
Why the "H" would I chose to play Tom Brady twice, an up-and-coming Miami team twice, and Buffalo twice when I can get 5 - 6 almost for sure wins by staying in the AFC South??
:D

Division games are never a gimmie .... Just look at the Jax game this year and the Dolts last season.

EllisUnit
11-23-2012, 08:11 PM
The Jets signed Tim Tebow this offseason. Is this really even debatable?

:boogereater: the cowboys are americas team "cough cough" AND NOW the jets are gods team.

JCTexan
11-23-2012, 08:42 PM
Why the "H" would I chose to play Tom Brady twice, an up-and-coming Miami team twice, and Buffalo twice when I can get 5 - 6 almost for sure wins by staying in the AFC South??
:D

As much as I agree with this (as a NYJ vs. Hou debate), you have to realize you are trading a first place team with a team currently in last place. In that sense a NE-Hou debate would seem more fair.

Outside of either New England and Houston who is the best team in either division? I would say with Andrew Luck looking good, the future of the Indianapolis Colts is brighter than any of the other teams.

TheMatrix31
11-23-2012, 08:51 PM
I wouldn't even take the Jets at any point during their "success" run.

Only got in because other teams laid down in one year, then in the next year they literally won like 6 games off of luck/BS.

No Rex Ryan Jets team has ever been as good as their media exposure indicated.

JamesBill
11-24-2012, 06:32 PM
They have destroyed their roster. ManGenius built a great roster and Rex's "magic" is dwindling as his roster turnover increases.

If Rex gets fired they better clean house of the GM as well.

thunderkyss
11-24-2012, 07:17 PM
Rex, like Wade, is one of the best DC's in the league but has never been the best head coach, or really even in the discussion. They both are much better when they concentrate on defense.


But he's firey, animated, & watches field goals. What else could you want in a Head Coach?

dc_txtech
11-24-2012, 07:37 PM
But he's firey, animated, & watches field goals. What else could you want in a Head Coach?

Someone who does nothing but pass deep when up 20 in the 4th quarter?

:kitten:

thunderkyss
12-18-2012, 11:21 AM
For the guys that watched the Jets@Titans last night. Even a part of it.

Did it ever get that bad for us? I know we had a 2-14 season, but did we ever look that inept against a team that bad?

My memory isn't what it should be. I remember some bad games, but I don't remember the details. Do you ever remember our team being on the losing end of a game that bad?

No offense to anyone who didn't watch that game, but if you didn't see it, its difficult to really grasp how bad both teams were & how bad the Jets had to be to lose it... give it away.

Scooter
12-18-2012, 12:02 PM
we havent been that totally inept during kubiak's tenure, though i'm sure there were a few times with capers and carr that come close. the reggie bush bowl against the 49'ers comes to mind as a game that both teams appeared to do whatever possible to keep from winning in a laughably sad game. we've had some real stinkers since then, but what team hasnt?

i've never liked rex as a head coach, though i did find him pretty amusing for a while. coaches that outlandish just dont last long because they cant maintain the locker room once things inevitably turn south. he's only lasted this long because of dumb luck and teams rolling over for them, and the talent level has severely plummeted during his tenure. part of that is he has zero feel for the other side of the ball, no offensive awareness at all which is also weakening where his focus should be - building and maintaining the defense. rex may be a decent coordinator, but he wasnt nor ever will be a good head coach.

kubiak on the other hand has shown those positive qualities. win or lose, good or bad, the players wont quit on him. with a few choice words he's able to motivate without the long term negative side effects that often come with rah rah coaches. unlike rex, kubiak has atleast some feel for the defense. obviously his choice of coaching has been flawed, but we saw what wade was able to do with essentially the defense kubiak assembled, and kubiak never lost his grip over his specialty on offense. as for the talent level, well we've improved every year outside of a blip in 2010, and are currently 12-2 talking about the world ending if we dont win the superbowl.

Big Lou
12-18-2012, 12:49 PM
we havent been that totally inept during kubiak's tenure, though i'm sure there were a few times with capers and carr that come close. the reggie bush bowl against the 49'ers comes to mind as a game that both teams appeared to do whatever possible to keep from winning in a laughably sad game. we've had some real stinkers since then, but what team hasnt?

i've never liked rex as a head coach, though i did find him pretty amusing for a while. coaches that outlandish just dont last long because they cant maintain the locker room once things inevitably turn south. he's only lasted this long because of dumb luck and teams rolling over for them, and the talent level has severely plummeted during his tenure. part of that is he has zero feel for the other side of the ball, no offensive awareness at all which is also weakening where his focus should be - building and maintaining the defense. rex may be a decent coordinator, but he wasnt nor ever will be a good head coach.

kubiak on the other hand has shown those positive qualities. win or lose, good or bad, the players wont quit on him. with a few choice words he's able to motivate without the long term negative side effects that often come with rah rah coaches. unlike rex, kubiak has atleast some feel for the defense. obviously his choice of coaching has been flawed, but we saw what wade was able to do with essentially the defense kubiak assembled, and kubiak never lost his grip over his specialty on offense. as for the talent level, well we've improved every year outside of a blip in 2010, and are currently 12-2 talking about the world ending if we dont win the superbowl.

I always laughed at the Rex Ryan hoopla. He took a 9 and 7 team, 9 and 7, and everyone gushed. They backed in to the playoffs that year. As soon as he got there they started trading picks away, and this is what they ended up with.

Build through the draft, thats how its done.

Will be interesting to see if he lands on his feet at the end of the season, I know his wife will.......

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 12:58 PM
we havent been that totally inept during kubiak's tenure, though i'm sure there were a few times with capers and carr that come close. the reggie bush bowl against the 49'ers comes to mind as a game that both teams appeared to do whatever possible to keep from winning in a laughably sad game. we've had some real stinkers since then, but what team hasnt?

i've never liked rex as a head coach, though i did find him pretty amusing for a while. coaches that outlandish just dont last long because they cant maintain the locker room once things inevitably turn south. he's only lasted this long because of dumb luck and teams rolling over for them, and the talent level has severely plummeted during his tenure. part of that is he has zero feel for the other side of the ball, no offensive awareness at all which is also weakening where his focus should be - building and maintaining the defense. rex may be a decent coordinator, but he wasnt nor ever will be a good head coach.

kubiak on the other hand has shown those positive qualities. win or lose, good or bad, the players wont quit on him. with a few choice words he's able to motivate without the long term negative side effects that often come with rah rah coaches. unlike rex, kubiak has atleast some feel for the defense. obviously his choice of coaching has been flawed, but we saw what wade was able to do with essentially the defense kubiak assembled, and kubiak never lost his grip over his specialty on offense. as for the talent level, well we've improved every year outside of a blip in 2010, and are currently 12-2 talking about the world ending if we dont win the superbowl.

Yep,
http://i48.tinypic.com/ae14zq.jpg

isn't nearly as humiliating as

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1877lehiqe4wtjpg/original.jpg

76Texan
12-18-2012, 01:02 PM
Yep,
http://i48.tinypic.com/ae14zq.jpg

isn't nearly as humiliating as

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1877lehiqe4wtjpg/original.jpg

LOL :choke:

Scooter
12-18-2012, 01:12 PM
Yep,
http://i48.tinypic.com/ae14zq.jpg

isn't nearly as humiliating as

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1877lehiqe4wtjpg/original.jpg

wow, must spread rep - laughing so hard i'm crying.

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 01:17 PM
wow, must spread rep - laughing so hard i'm crying.

Yep, as much as I'm not a fan of the Rex Ryan/Mark Sanchez era New York Jets, I will forever be indebted to them that the word "Buttfumble" is now part of our vocabulary.

Scooter
12-18-2012, 01:23 PM
too true. rosencopter and outaboundsky are great, but there will never be a better play in football than buttfumble.

Marcus
12-18-2012, 01:27 PM
It wasn't that long ago when there were comments on this very forum about Kubiak taking such a long time to put a winning team on the field, and the "fiery" Rex Ryan taking his team to the playoffs in only one year.

I make it a point to remember stuff like that. :)

76Texan
12-18-2012, 01:28 PM
too true. rosencopter and outaboundsky are great, but there will never be a better play in football than buttfumble.

What if the lineman was turned completely around and Sanchez trips to his knee falling forward? hahaha :smiliepalm:

Dutchrudder
12-18-2012, 01:28 PM
Eh, I don't think Rex Ryan is the problem in New Jersey, their defense is still quite good without Revis. They are 8th overall in total yards against, but 20th in points against. I think the biggest issue with the team is 22 takeaways on defense, which is about 15th in the league, and 33 giveaways on offense (bottom 5 in the league). You can't win games consistently if the offense consistently gives the ball away.

Their offense is atrocious, and that team has more giveaways than most of the league. Their QBs are all terrible, they don't have a half-way decent RT, their WRs suck (Holmes is extremely overrated) and they can't sustain drives. They need a reboot on the offensive side of the ball, but they can't do it now that Sanchez has a bunch of guaranteed money coming his way. I expect Rex Ryan to get another year, but they need to find a way to replace their QB or draft a new one if they want to be competitive.

Scooter
12-18-2012, 01:35 PM
What if the lineman was turned completely around and Sanchez trips to his knee falling forward? hahaha :smiliepalm:

i'm afraid to know why your mind went there lol. :francis:

76Texan
12-18-2012, 01:48 PM
i'm afraid to know why your mind went there lol. :francis:

I got flashback of Sue Sue kicking Schaub's jewelry box.

Just a week after that, I saw a guy jumping with hands stretched out trying to block a punt and... LOL

I thought that was funny as he'll, too.

steelbtexan
12-18-2012, 02:00 PM
It wasn't that long ago when there were comments on this very forum about Kubiak taking such a long time to put a winning team on the field, and the "fiery" Rex Ryan taking his team to the playoffs in only one year.

I make it a point to remember stuff like that. :)

How many AFC championships has Gary made it too? Rex made it to two with Buttfumble as his QB. That is truly amazing.

Revis going down and Sancez regressing is why the Jets are where they are. Imagine the Texans without Watt and having Sanchez as their QB. (I shudder at the thought.

See the I remember game cuts both ways. Would you settle for 2 AFC championship games in the next 2 yrs? For me it's SB or bust. Hopefully Gary will have learned from his past mistakes and can lead the team he built there. But until he does I cant say that I fully trust him. Especially since his team seems to crap the bed every time it plays a national TV game.

thunderkyss
12-18-2012, 02:16 PM
It wasn't that long ago when there were comments on this very forum about Kubiak taking such a long time to put a winning team on the field, and the "fiery" Rex Ryan taking his team to the playoffs in only one year.

I make it a point to remember stuff like that. :)

Rex still has two AFC Championship games with an inept QB. We have a single play-off win.

I think the jury is still out on Kubiak being the better of the two. They're probably both inept..... in that the game is played to win the Super Bowl.

I started this thread, because I think Gary has done a much better job building this team & our future looks so much brighter. But Rex still accomplished more with less.

I think a Super Bowl appearance would about do it though & I like our chances.

gwallaia
12-18-2012, 02:21 PM
I watched part of the 1st half of that game. It was like watching a pre-season game.

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 03:01 PM
Revis going down and Sancez regressing is why the Jets are where they are. Imagine the Texans without Watt and having Sanchez as their QB. (I shudder at the thought.



How is Rex having a QB that regresses an excuse, and for Kubiak having a defense that sucks a cardinal sin?

76Texan
12-18-2012, 03:30 PM
How is Rex having a QB that regresses an excuse, and for Kubiak having a defense that sucks a cardinal sin?

Cause Kubiak sucks regardless. :kitten::brando:

TexanSam
12-18-2012, 03:33 PM
Rex Ryan sucks at establishing a credible offense and Gary Kubiak was terrible at establishing a credible defense until Wade Phillips came to town. I think they're pretty much equals.

Perki-Perk
12-18-2012, 03:42 PM
How many AFC championships has Gary made it too? Rex made it to two with Buttfumble as his QB. That is truly amazing.

Revis going down and Sancez regressing is why the Jets are where they are. Imagine the Texans without Watt and having Sanchez as their QB. (I shudder at the thought.

See the I remember game cuts both ways. Would you settle for 2 AFC championship games in the next 2 yrs? For me it's SB or bust. Hopefully Gary will have learned from his past mistakes and can lead the team he built there. But until he does I cant say that I fully trust him. Especially since his team seems to crap the bed every time it plays a national TV game.

SteelB. I just love debating with you because it is so easy to point out the flaws in your argument. We have been without Cushing and have had a very limited to non existent Jonathan Joseph. Let's not compare Oranges to rotten apples, please :nolisten:

LonerATO
12-18-2012, 04:02 PM
Eh, I don't think Rex Ryan is the problem in New Jersey, their defense is still quite good without Revis. They are 8th overall in total yards against, but 20th in points against. I think the biggest issue with the team is 22 takeaways on defense, which is about 15th in the league, and 33 giveaways on offense (bottom 5 in the league). You can't win games consistently if the offense consistently gives the ball away.

Their offense is atrocious, and that team has more giveaways than most of the league. Their QBs are all terrible, they don't have a half-way decent RT, their WRs suck (Holmes is extremely overrated) and they can't sustain drives. They need a reboot on the offensive side of the ball, but they can't do it now that Sanchez has a bunch of guaranteed money coming his way. I expect Rex Ryan to get another year, but they need to find a way to replace their QB or draft a new one if they want to be competitive.

I agree with you that Rex really isn't the problem and I feel that their GM is the real issue.

2slik4u
12-18-2012, 04:10 PM
Eh, I don't think Rex Ryan is the problem in New Jersey, their defense is still quite good without Revis. They are 8th overall in total yards against, but 20th in points against. I think the biggest issue with the team is 22 takeaways on defense, which is about 15th in the league, and 33 giveaways on offense (bottom 5 in the league). You can't win games consistently if the offense consistently gives the ball away.

Their offense is atrocious, and that team has more giveaways than most of the league. Their QBs are all terrible, they don't have a half-way decent RT, their WRs suck (Holmes is extremely overrated) and they can't sustain drives. They need a reboot on the offensive side of the ball, but they can't do it now that Sanchez has a bunch of guaranteed money coming his way. I expect Rex Ryan to get another year, but they need to find a way to replace their QB or draft a new one if they want to be competitive.

Seems kind of similar to the pre-Wade era of the Texans.

Offense was electric but defense was atrocious. In the Jets case, the defense is solid but the offense is crap. It all falls on Rex's shoulders as he is the head coach.

CloakNNNdagger
12-18-2012, 04:18 PM
I agree with you that Rex really isn't the problem and I feel that their GM is the real issue.

The GM knows exactly what he's doing...................he's gathering all the pieces for the 2013 "America's Got No Talent" show.

b0ng
12-18-2012, 04:25 PM
How is Rex having a QB that regresses an excuse, and for Kubiak having a defense that sucks a cardinal sin?

Well Kubiak has at least changed the guys in charge of the defense after they sucked (Although Richard Smith should've never ever ever have gotten a 2nd or 3rd year), whereas Ryan has stuck with Sanchez welllllllll past the expiration date.

Rex may not be the problem in NYJ, but whomever the person is saying "Keep starting Sanchez" is the problem, and they must hate the Jets as an organization.

Dutchrudder
12-18-2012, 04:33 PM
Seems kind of similar to the pre-Wade era of the Texans.

I can agree with that, and I think that is the larger issue with the Jets. They have not offensive guru to come in and help them. Sparano has been an abysmal hire. Did anyone else watch the game last night? It was the most dumbfounding offensive playcalling I have ever seen.

Offense was electric but defense was atrocious. In the Jets case, the defense is solid but the offense is crap. It all falls on Rex's shoulders as he is the head coach.

This I don't agree with. I don't believe Rex had much to do with trading for Tebow and not reading his contract details before executing it (wasting valuable cap space). I don't think Rex had much to do with extending Sanchez, I don't think he had much to do with hiring Sparano either. I see Tannenbaum as the main reason why the Jets suck on offense, because he can't identify offensive talent for the field or the sidelines. I really don't think Rex is their go-to guy for selecting offensive players, and I think he gets a pass because of this. This organization seems to be run by the GM, not the head coach, which is in stark contrast to my perception of how the Texans organization is run. Personally, I'd give Ryan another year or two, and bring in a new GM and OC.

Double Barrel
12-18-2012, 04:42 PM
Did it ever get that bad for us? I know we had a 2-14 season, but did we ever look that inept against a team that bad?

My memory isn't what it should be. I remember some bad games, but I don't remember the details. Do you ever remember our team being on the losing end of a game that bad?


During the 2-14 season, we never had a single lead in the first six games of the season.

Think about that for a second. 24 quarters - a month and a half of football - and they never had even a 1 point lead in a game.

Heck, we fired our OC (Chris Palmer) just two games into the season, iirc.

Yeah, that was a horrible season. Much worse, IMO, than the Jets 2012.

steelbtexan
12-18-2012, 05:30 PM
How is Rex having a QB that regresses an excuse, and for Kubiak having a defense that sucks a cardinal sin?

1. Offensive TD in each of the last 2 games.

The defense did stop Brady and Co. 4 times in a row, what did the 1st string offense do? You've got to score points against Brady. Did you see what he did to the 49ers? But see, the 49ers put points on the board.

I dont blame Gary, there's a lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball. I believe he's so conservative because it helps hide the offensive flaws.

steelbtexan
12-18-2012, 05:36 PM
SteelB. I just love debating with you because it is so easy to point out the flaws in your argument. We have been without Cushing and have had a very limited to non existent Jonathan Joseph. Let's not compare Oranges to rotten apples, please :nolisten:

What's your point?

The defense and the offense are limited for different reasons. Good news is they are still able to beat avg/below avg teams despite these limitations. Are you saying because Cushing is lost the Texans have no chance at the SB.

My point is, that people may hate Ryan, but he has accomplished more with Buttfumble as his QB than Gary has dreamed of in his current tenure as HC.

Again, I dont understand the meaning of your post.

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 06:10 PM
1. Offensive TD in each of the last 2 games.

The defense did stop Brady and Co. 4 times in a row, what did the 1st string offense do? You've got to score points against Brady. Did you see what he did to the 49ers? But see, the 49ers put points on the board.

I dont blame Gary, there's a lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball. I believe he's so conservative because it helps hide the offensive flaws.

Uhm...I'm not talking about now (but way to feign ignorance) - I'm basically saying that you're giving Rex a pass for the equivalent of things you absolutely eviscerated Gary for back when we were going 8-8. What's the difference?

thunderkyss
12-18-2012, 07:27 PM
Well Kubiak has at least changed the guys in charge of the defense after they sucked (Although Richard Smith should've never ever ever have gotten a 2nd or 3rd year), whereas Ryan has stuck with Sanchez welllllllll past the expiration date.

Rex may not be the problem in NYJ, but whomever the person is saying "Keep starting Sanchez" is the problem, and they must hate the Jets as an organization.

In Rex's defense, I get the sense that Tebow was forced on him & that started a rucus in that organization that resulted in what we've seen on the field.

He also brought in Sparano.

The real mystery to me, about that team, is the disappearance of the running game. That's what got them to back to back AFC Championship games. The best rushing attack in the league & the best defense. Top 3 anyway.

Why would they try to turn Sanchez into Brady? That's like turning Flacco into Brady, or Alex Smith, or Matt Schaub. Just doesn't make sense. Running backs are a dime a dozen & there were & will be good ones available in the offseason. Young ones, old ones, experienced ones, successful... what ever you need.

But they try to turn Sanchez into Brady with no receivers?? Strange.

ChampionTexan
12-18-2012, 07:33 PM
In Rex's defense, I get the sense that Tebow was forced on him & that started a rucus in that organization that resulted in what we've seen on the field.

He also brought in Sparano.

The real mystery to me, about that team, is the disappearance of the running game. That's what got them to back to back AFC Championship games. The best rushing attack in the league & the best defense. Top 3 anyway.

Why would they try to turn Sanchez into Brady? That's like turning Flacco into Brady, or Alex Smith, or Matt Schaub. Just doesn't make sense. Running backs are a dime a dozen & there were & will be good ones available in the offseason. Young ones, old ones, experienced ones, successful... what ever you need.

But they try to turn Sanchez into Brady with no receivers?? Strange.

I agree with you to some extent (I don't believe Rex wanted or had anything to do with acquiring Tebow), but it's not like things were all that great last season. Remember the radio interview with McElroy after the season?

76Texan
12-18-2012, 07:44 PM
In Rex's defense, I get the sense that Tebow was forced on him & that started a rucus in that organization that resulted in what we've seen on the field.

He also brought in Sparano.

The real mystery to me, about that team, is the disappearance of the running game. That's what got them to back to back AFC Championship games. The best rushing attack in the league & the best defense. Top 3 anyway.

Why would they try to turn Sanchez into Brady? That's like turning Flacco into Brady, or Alex Smith, or Matt Schaub. Just doesn't make sense. Running backs are a dime a dozen & there were & will be good ones available in the offseason. Young ones, old ones, experienced ones, successful... what ever you need.

But they try to turn Sanchez into Brady with no receivers?? Strange.

So Rex had nothing to do with the draft and free agency?

He stood behind Sanchez time after time, after time.
It's on him for not finding another QB.

thunderkyss
12-18-2012, 08:46 PM
So Rex had nothing to do with the draft and free agency?

He stood behind Sanchez time after time, after time.
It's on him for not finding another QB.

If they could run the ball the way Rex wanted to run the ball, Sanchez can get them to the AFC Championship game. We saw it twice. That's Rex's way of falling on the sword for someone who shouldn't be blamed for what's happening in New York.

He supported Sanchez time after time because his options are Tebow & a 3rd round rookie.

I'm just speculating here, I have no idea what's going on in New York. But I think there's a power play going & the GM is trying to get rid of that loub mouth uncouth ba$tard.

& as far as Rex & the Draft picks go, that's like Kubiak drafting DTs.

steelbtexan
12-18-2012, 09:00 PM
Uhm...I'm not talking about now (but way to feign ignorance) - I'm basically saying that you're giving Rex a pass for the equivalent of things you absolutely eviscerated Gary for back when we were going 8-8. What's the difference?

The only things that i didn't care for about Gary back then were

1. Coaches challenges, Remember the the 2:00 warning fiasco at Indy?
2. Terrible use of timeouts, Example, any number of Colts,Jags games
3. Overall conservatism, playcalling, not taking risks although the team was often outmanned. Example love affair with Chris/Kris Brown.

Was it wrong to point out Garys faults back then?

But Gary has improved. Anyway I'm talking about now not back then. Bottom line, the offense needs to improve if the Texans want to be a force in the playoffs. Spin it however you spin it, Rex has been a more successful HC than Gary to this point. Hopefully that's about to change.

Texan_Bill
12-18-2012, 09:13 PM
Rex Ryan as a head coach - .548

Wade Phillips as a head coach - .581


In comparison:


Buddy Ryan - .500

Bum - .516

*****************

Texan v. Texan??

I think the Phillips' family wins!! And as an added bonus, Wade wins with the hottest daughter!!



http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2012/01/medium_0748491c42bf531b8f0801bae8516851.jpg

steelbtexan
12-18-2012, 09:18 PM
In Rex's defense, I get the sense that Tebow was forced on him & that started a rucus in that organization that resulted in what we've seen on the field.

He also brought in Sparano.

The real mystery to me, about that team, is the disappearance of the running game. That's what got them to back to back AFC Championship games. The best rushing attack in the league & the best defense. Top 3 anyway.

Why would they try to turn Sanchez into Brady? That's like turning Flacco into Brady, or Alex Smith, or Matt Schaub. Just doesn't make sense. Running backs are a dime a dozen & there were & will be good ones available in the offseason. Young ones, old ones, experienced ones, successful... what ever you need.

But they try to turn Sanchez into Brady with no receivers?? Strange.

There's no mystery, Faneca and Woody retired. The GM failed to replace them. Rex specialty is defense that's why I think Tannenbaum was iin charge of drafting offensive players. Sort of like Gary is in charge of drafting offensive guys and Wade defensive guys.

That and Sanchez regressed along with losing Holmes. Basically out of 60 plays Sanchez misread the defense 5-6 times and Sanchez threw inaccurate passes 5-6 times. You cant have 10-12 plays that are varing degrees of bad to terrible and have a successful offense, when you're only running 60-65 plays in a game.

steelbtexan
12-18-2012, 09:20 PM
Rex Ryan as a head coach - .548

Wade Phillips as a head coach - .581


In comparison:


Buddy Ryan - .500

Bum - .516

*****************

Texan v. Texan??

I think the Phillips' family wins!! And as an added bonus, Wade wins with the hottest daughter!!



http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/11/2012/01/medium_0748491c42bf531b8f0801bae8516851.jpg

Most definitely, Wades wife must be hot, Tracey certainly didn't get her looks from Wade/Bum. LOL

Repped

Scooter
12-18-2012, 09:20 PM
Spin it however you spin it, Rex has been a more successful HC than Gary to this point. Hopefully that's about to change.

while technically true, it's hardly a fair comparison. mangini had been putting together a solid roster that rex was able to take over instantly - and drive into the ground. one of those early playoff runs came at the texans expense because not 1, but 2 teams rolled over for the jets. capers put together nothing - that kubiak has since turned into arguably the best team in football. to say rex has done a better job just isnt accurate.

rolyat93
12-19-2012, 02:37 AM
During the 2-14 season, we never had a single lead in the first six games of the season.

Think about that for a second. 24 quarters - a month and a half of football - and they never had even a 1 point lead in a game.

Heck, we fired our OC (Chris Palmer) just two games into the season, iirc.

Yeah, that was a horrible season. Much worse, IMO, than the Jets 2012.

At least we got the #1 pick out of the deal.

Jets are sucking and are cap-strapped to Sanchez and most likely will be outside the top 12 in the draft.

Surreal McCoy
12-19-2012, 03:21 AM
So what do you think?

In 2009, Rex Ryan inherited the 9-7 NYJets that failed to make the play-offs & turned them into a 9-7 team that backed into the play-offs. They went on a magical run that culminated with a close loss in the AFC Championship.

They followed that up with an 11-5 season & another loss in the AFC Championship game.

In 2009, Kubiak's fourth season with the Texans. Considered by some to have underachieved in the previous three seasons (6-10, 8-8, 8-8) finally managed a winning season (9-7), but no play-off appearance.

2010, the Texans field one of the worst pass defenses in the history of the league & finish the season 6-10.

===================================

2011, rumblings from inside the Jets locker room become public. They finish the season 8-8

Meanwhile the Texans finish with a franchise best 10-6 season despite missing many key players throughout the season (Foster, Schaub, & Andre played less than 50 snaps together or something like that)... They host a play-off game as winners of the AFC South, they win that game against the Bengals & lose in Baltimore due to a rookie QB, and sub-par special teams play.

2012, The Jets have got to win out just to finish 9-7. The Texans can lose the rest of the way & finish 10-6. The Texans have been favored to win almost every game this season & are generally considered the favorites to represent the AFC in the Super Bowl.

=====================================


If you were told that you could be the head coach of either of these teams, but you've got to win in 2013, winning will be defined as simply a winning season. Nothing about division champs, nothing about play-offs, all you have to do is have a winning season in 2013.....

which team would you pick? Imagine you can name your price for a wining season & you're permanently banned from any NFL activity in the future if you're 8-8 or worse.

Which HC/GM did a better job of building a team?

What's truly amazing is how many people on this very board would have given their left leg for Sexy Rexy back then, and probably some still would now! All we need(ed) is someone to yell at the players and curse a bit... :redface:

thunderkyss
12-19-2012, 04:01 AM
What's truly amazing is how many people on this very board would have given their left leg for Sexy Rexy back then, and probably some still would now! All we need(ed) is someone to yell at the players and curse a bit... :redface:

Surreal, thanks for joining in. However, as you can see from the entire thread, there's a lot towards making a good head coach. I think Gary's strength is team building. All the things that happen before game day. A lot of people think Rex's strength are the things that happen on game day. Like a lot of coaches, they also demonstrate "guru-like" mastery of their side of the ball & lack the ability to find a competent steward for the other.

76Texan
12-19-2012, 09:17 AM
The Texans under Kubiak had a plan for rebuilding.

They do it the right way when they treat the players with respect, and demand the same thing in return through accountability.

As a coach, Gary learned and grew with the job, the same way most of us do.
I can't speak for nor answer to any geniuses on this board, but they have Mr. McNair to direct their question to. :worldpeace:

The Pencil Neck
12-19-2012, 11:28 AM
The Texans under Kubiak had a plan for rebuilding.

I think this is the main thing.

Smithiak has been BUILDING this roster... to the point that it's now a talented roster.

Rex took a team that someone else built and was able to get it to the AFC Championship two times. But in the process, he made a bunch of moves that degraded the team. He hasn't shown he can build something.

Although, to be fair, as a Defensive Coordinator, the Ravens drafted some good players under him: Haloti Ngata, Lardarius Webb, Paul Kruger.