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Marcus
11-22-2012, 05:10 PM
Announcers were calling it "the most punitive penalty in NFL history".

That very play is what the national talking heads will be talking about all week. What a weird way for Justin Forsett to get into the limelight.

Yes, we benefited from it, but it was still an abomination that defied common sense.

Malloy
11-22-2012, 05:10 PM
Announcers were calling it "the most punitive penalty in NFL history".

That very play is what the national talking heads will be talking about all week.What a weird way for Justin Forsett to get into the limelight.

Fortunately it was not out fault... so no blame on our Texans :)

thunderkyss
11-22-2012, 05:12 PM
Fortunately it was not out fault... so no blame on our Texans :)

Yeah, blame that hothead Schwartz. Same thing happened just last week to Fox. He should have known.

Pretty bad when your HC don't know the rules.

Stemp
11-22-2012, 05:13 PM
He had plenty of time to wait but he was so sure of the call he threw the flag early.

That TD is on him, not the Texans.

Malloy
11-22-2012, 05:14 PM
Talk about dodging a bullet.. :)

Hervoyel
11-22-2012, 05:16 PM
I have nothing bad to say about the Texans. They did everything they were supposed to on that play. Keep playing till you hear the whistle? Check. The refs blew the call which is fine. That's what the replay guy is supposed to take care of. The Lions head coach is the one who found a way (a way most of us probably didn't even know existed) to short-circuit the rather impressive net the NFL has strung up underneath their game to catch things like this.

Refs screwed up. Lions HC topped it. Sorry Lions, I admit it wasn't a TD but damn your HC is an idiot!

SrslySirius
11-22-2012, 05:21 PM
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/3745245/gunkick.0_standard_730.0.gif

Fili
11-22-2012, 05:23 PM
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/3745245/gunkick.0_standard_730.0.gif

Still a better punter than Matt Turk.

76Texan
11-22-2012, 05:24 PM
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/3745245/gunkick.0_standard_730.0.gif

LOLLoLLOL

Malloy
11-22-2012, 05:25 PM
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/3745245/gunkick.0_standard_730.0.gif

The new kicker ? :)

JCTexan
11-22-2012, 05:29 PM
I have nothing bad to say about the Texans. They did everything they were supposed to on that play. Keep playing till you hear the whistle? Check. The refs blew the call which is fine. That's what the replay guy is supposed to take care of. The Lions head coach is the one who found a way (a way most of us probably didn't even know existed) to short-circuit the rather impressive net the NFL has strung up underneath their game to catch things like this.

Refs screwed up. Lions HC topped it. Sorry Lions, I admit it wasn't a TD but damn your HC is an idiot!

I think the refs should be commended for not blowing the whistle. Too often they blow the whistle and nothing can come of it. By not blowing it you allowed either a TD to happen or a challenge to overturn it. Schwartz not knowing this rule is ridiculous and nobody is to blame but him.

Marcus
11-22-2012, 05:30 PM
Yeah, it was a rule apparently, but it does seem silly to be given a 15 yard penalty, but not preserve the integrity of the game by reviewing the play, which would have most likely showed that Forsett was down.

I mean, in the end, the integrity of the game is what is important here, right?

Just ridiculous.

GP
11-22-2012, 05:42 PM
Yeah, it was a rule apparently, but it does seem silly to be given a 15 yard penalty, but not preserve the integrity of the game by reviewing the play, which would have most likely showed that Forsett was down.

I mean, in the end, the integrity of the game is what is important here, right?

Just ridiculous.

No the integrity of the head coach is important, and it couldn't have happened to a more deserving characterLESS coach than Schwartz.

Integrity of the game?????? Observe and obey the RULES of the game would be preserving the integrity of the game.

Hey, it was a boneheaded move that cost his own team. His team is as undisciplined as HE is.

I felt it rather fitting.

The good guys win again.

NCTexan
11-22-2012, 05:43 PM
Why does the rule exist in the first place? I've been trying to think of a reason and can't.


Also good job by Forsett playing to the whistle!

EVOLVIST
11-22-2012, 05:48 PM
Yeah, it was a rule apparently, but it does seem silly to be given a 15 yard penalty, but not preserve the integrity of the game by reviewing the play, which would have most likely showed that Forsett was down.

I mean, in the end, the integrity of the game is what is important here, right?

Just ridiculous.

Well, you're right! 100%. But tit for tat. It's not in keeping with the integrity of the game for Suh to kick Matt in the dick and then on another play drag...DRAG Matt down by the front of his shoulder pads long after he released the ball.

What are you going to do? Hopefully throw this rule out for next year. On the other hand, coaches have a responsibility to follow the rules,too, no matter the rule. Too bad, so sad on November 22nd, 2012.

Chance_C
11-22-2012, 06:00 PM
Like Chris Webber calling the timeout in the NCAA finals when he didn't have one! Know the rules!

Lucky
11-22-2012, 06:13 PM
Last year, Jim Harbaugh challenged a scoring play and was penalized. Jim Schwartz was seen laughing on the sidelines. After the game (a Niner win), Harbaugh gave Schwartz "the handshake" that led to a near brawl.

Who's laughing now, Jim?

EVOLVIST
11-22-2012, 06:21 PM
What Lions fans are saying:

http://detroitlionsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6021

Nawzer
11-22-2012, 06:22 PM
Jim Schwartz is a moron. The play is his fault completely.

Trail.Blazr
11-22-2012, 06:23 PM
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/3745245/gunkick.0_standard_730.0.gif

the new kicker ? :)


msr!!! Lol

GP
11-22-2012, 06:27 PM
Last year, Jim Harbaugh challenged a scoring play and was penalized. Jim Schwartz was seen laughing on the sidelines. After the game (a Niner win), Harbaugh gave Schwartz "the handshake" that led to a near brawl.

Who's laughing now, Jim?

Schwartz is the King of all d-bags.

This was sooooo perfect that it happened to him. It cost his team the game.

It has made my day.

bigfan77801
11-22-2012, 06:32 PM
What Lions fans are saying:

http://detroitlionsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6021

Love the link. :kingkong:

Trail.Blazr
11-22-2012, 06:33 PM
I'm a big fan of the Kharma concept.

I hate it for Lion fans, as replay surely shows the Texans were "Gifted" a Touchdown.

But, I couldn't wish the outcome of that play on any other team with a player not Named SUH!!! I was concerned with N'DonkeyKong before the game and the nut-shot on Schaub was the epitome of what that player is about. Schwartz alows his players to THUG all season long, and I'm glad to see them suffer some bad kharma.

If I was Kubiak, rather than waste the 15 yd penalty on the kickoff for a sure touchback, I'd have attempted an onside kick "unsuspecting" knowing that a Lion recovery would still be recoverable in the terms of field position.

TexansFanatic
11-22-2012, 06:40 PM
Yeah, it was a rule apparently, but it does seem silly to be given a 15 yard penalty, but not preserve the integrity of the game by reviewing the play, which would have most likely showed that Forsett was down.

I mean, in the end, the integrity of the game is what is important here, right?

Just ridiculous.

Agreed. What a-hole made that rule? You throw the flag at the wrong time and this is such a horrible imposition that you get robbed of the replay? Absurd.

TexansFanatic
11-22-2012, 06:42 PM
Love the link. :kingkong:

Holy crap, this post was brilliant:

Suh just wanted Schaub to know what if feels like to be a Lions fan.

Showtime100
11-22-2012, 06:56 PM
Why does the rule exist in the first place? I've been trying to think of a reason and can't.


Also good job by Forsett playing to the whistle!

Supposedly, and this is all I got, it came about because coaches found a small loophole. They were using the red flag to quick-challenge a play they would not have otherwise challenged in order to get a makeshift time out.

Take with a grain of salt, but that's how I understand the rule's origin.

Texan_Bill
11-22-2012, 07:02 PM
Love the link. :kingkong:

Screw them!!

We were all taught as little kids to play until you hear the whistle - Shame on the Lions Players.

Coaches need to be held accountable for knowing the rules. Shame on Jim Schwartz.

Have you noticed that Kubiak calls a ref. over to discuss the options before throwing a challenge flag?? That's why!

MightyTExan
11-22-2012, 07:04 PM
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/3745245/gunkick.0_standard_730.0.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1759573/hennelol2.gif

TexanBacker93
11-22-2012, 07:07 PM
Screw them!!

We were all taught as little kids to play until you hear the whistle - Shame on the Lions Players.

Coaches need to be held accountable for knowing the rules. Shame on Jim Schwartz.

Have you noticed that Kubiak calls a ref. over to discuss the options before throwing a challenge flag?? That's why!

If I remember correctly Kubiak was called for this same infraction last season and now makes sure to talk it over first.

NCTexan
11-22-2012, 07:10 PM
Supposedly, and this is all I got, it came about because coaches found a small loophole. They were using the red flag to quick-challenge a play they would not have otherwise challenged in order to get a makeshift time out.

Take with a grain of salt, but that's how I understand the rule's origin.

Ah. Thanks! That makes some sense. Seems like over kill, but this is the nfl.

Texan_Bill
11-22-2012, 07:10 PM
If I remember correctly Kubiak was called for this same infraction last season and now makes sure to talk it over first.

I dont think this rule existed last year. I can't swear to that, but.....

Texan_Bill
11-22-2012, 07:11 PM
Supposedly, and this is all I got, it came about because coaches found a small loophole. They were using the red flag to quick-challenge a play they would not have otherwise challenged in order to get a makeshift time out.

Take with a grain of salt, but that's how I understand the rule's origin.

Thats the exact reason that I think this rule was implemented this season.

TexansFanatic
11-22-2012, 07:14 PM
Supposedly, and this is all I got, it came about because coaches found a small loophole. They were using the red flag to quick-challenge a play they would not have otherwise challenged in order to get a makeshift time out.

Take with a grain of salt, but that's how I understand the rule's origin.

Interesting. I never really thought of this before, but does that mean you can throw the red flag if you're out of timeouts? I would think you'd have to have at least one timeout left in order to be able to use the red flag....

Marcus
11-22-2012, 07:15 PM
Supposedly, and this is all I got, it game about because coaches found a small loophole. They were using the red flag to quik-challenge a play they would not have otherwise challenged in order to get a makeshift time out.

Take with a grain of salt, but that's how I understand the rule's origin.

Well, whatever the reason, it needs to be clarified.

Integrity of the game is just that. Integrity of the game. Did anyone actually see any integrity here.

Was it a touchdown? No, it wasn't. Was there an instant replay to correct the call? No, there wasn't.

Either you have instant replay, or you don't. It's that simple.

Hooston Texan
11-22-2012, 07:15 PM
We shouldn't lose a wink of sleep over this.

It is a stupid rule: do we need something so punitive for the scourge that is an improperly-thrown flag? But it is the rule, and NFL coaches get paid a lot of money to know them. Of course, judging by the way Suh plays, it is quite clear that Schwartz doesn't have much use for rules.

Nobody asks the Patriots to give back their post Tuck Rule Super Bowl. And I could care less that some folks will think the win is tarnished. They can have the taint. We'll take the win.

sometexansfan
11-22-2012, 07:16 PM
Interesting. I never really thought of this before, but does that mean you can throw the red flag if you're out of timeouts? I would think you'd have to have at least one timeout left in order to be able to use the red flag....

Yep, you can't throw the red flag if you're out of timeouts.

Hervoyel
11-22-2012, 07:19 PM
Agreed. What a-hole made that rule? You throw the flag at the wrong time and this is such a horrible imposition that you get robbed of the replay? Absurd.


I think it makes perfect sense. The rule seems designed to keep game delays to a minimum. Every time some coach tosses a red flag out onto the field everything has to stop and the referee has to go over and find out what he's challenging and stuff just stops while they sort that out. Players get a breather, I don't know can substitutions be made? I see the point of the rule. No throwing a flag out there to stop the game to keep your defense from being run off the field or to get any sort of advantage. There are enough delays and time-outs in professional football as it is. Too many really.

So if you throw the flag out at an inappropriate time or for a play that can't be reviewed you get penalized. Part of that penalty is that you don't get the benefit of the review you demanded.

It's not like we haven't all known that all scoring plays are reviewed by the replay official. They've been saying that ever since preseason. Schwartz is an imbecile and deserved what he got. I feel for their fans and some of their players (Suh, not so much) but that's the breaks. Thorn had that signature (maybe he still does) about life being hard but being harder if you're stupid.

Jim Schwartz knows a thing or two about that now.

The NFL is very clear about it. The Rule (http://nflcommunications.com/2012/11/22/rule-explanation-from-houston-detroit-game/)

TexansFanatic
11-22-2012, 07:20 PM
Yep, you can't throw the red flag if you're out of timeouts.

OK, so I'm still confused then. Was Detroit penalized because they were out of timeouts or simply because it was an inappropriate time to throw the red flag?

Say Watt
11-22-2012, 07:24 PM
I don't give a rats ass. A win is a win.

TexansFanatic
11-22-2012, 07:24 PM
The rule seems designed to keep game delays to a minimum.

I suppose I can see that. But does it really delay the game that much? I would think the ref could just tell the coach he can't do that and keep the clock running. If the confusion results in a delay of game, then that's where the penalty is applied.

gwallaia
11-22-2012, 07:26 PM
Feel bad for all the Detroit fans. I know the feeling very well.

ObsiWan
11-22-2012, 07:27 PM
OK, so I'm still confused then. Was Detroit penalized because they were out of timeouts or simply because it was an inappropriate time to throw the red flag?

The latter. All scoring plays and turnovers are reviewed automatically. This rule was put into place to keep coaches from "manipulating the clock" according to one of the talking heads. Somehow by throwing a challenge flag, a coach can slow down the game and get what amounts to a timeout.

Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm just a fan. I'd like to hear the Mike Pereria (sp?) explanation. He's pretty good at breaking these things down for us common fans.

TexanBacker93
11-22-2012, 07:29 PM
I dont think this rule existed last year. I can't swear to that, but.....


Just looked it up. Kubiak was penalized last season at Tampa for this. The penalty was new last year.

TexansFanatic
11-22-2012, 07:30 PM
The latter. All scoring plays and turnovers are reviewed automatically. This rule was put into place to keep coaches from "manipulating the clock" according to one of the talking heads. Somehow by throwing a challenge flag, a coach can slow down the game and get what amounts to a timeout.

Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm just a fan. I'd like to hear the Mike Pereria (sp?) explanation. He's pretty good at breaking these things down for us common fans.

If that's true (and that was my understanding of it as well) then the punishment doesn't fit the crime. If a coach is trying to unfairly manipulate the clock, his team should be assessed a penalty. But ruling a non-touchdown a touchdown is excessive --- and that's an understatement.

Showtime100
11-22-2012, 07:34 PM
Interesting. I never really thought of this before, but does that mean you can throw the red flag if you're out of timeouts? I would think you'd have to have at least one timeout left in order to be able to use the red flag....

Yep, you can't throw the red flag if you're out of timeouts.

Here's where I don't know either. You can't throw a red fleg without a timeout remaining IN THEORY,, but I think if you do you will be penalized, but you can if you have one less time out than you will need in order to stop the clock and get the ball back (for example).

Great discussion here.

I'll bet this rule will be scrutinized so much this coming week we'll all have an answer in the comig days (especially since the Texans benefitted..lol).

Texan_Bill
11-22-2012, 07:35 PM
Just looked it up. Kubiak was penalized last season at Tampa for this. The penalty was new last year.

Gotcha!

Hervoyel
11-22-2012, 07:38 PM
If that's true (and that was my understanding of it as well) then the punishment doesn't fit the crime. If a coach is trying to unfairly manipulate the clock, his team should be assessed a penalty. But ruling a non-touchdown a touchdown is excessive --- and that's an understatement.

In most situations it wouldn't be excessive because outside of scoring plays (which ever fool knows are reviewed automatically in the NFL now) it would be a 15 yard penalty. It was just the situation today that made it excessive. Today's example of this penalty was like a "perfect storm" situation. Worst case scenario and Schwartz stepped into it with both feet

Marcus
11-22-2012, 07:42 PM
If the officials are automatically reviewing the TD, by rule, how is throwing a red flag "delaying the next snap"?

If the officials are automatically reviewing the TD, by rule, why doesn't the official simply give back the red flag and say, "we're already reviewing it."

I know we benefited from this horrible rule, and I'm glad we won, but it still an egregiously horrible rule. A fifteen yard penalty? . . , fine! . . .

. . . but you DO NOT remove or hinder the ability to correct a blown call.

The NFL is going to catch holy HELL over this, and rightly so.

infantrycak
11-22-2012, 07:43 PM
Feel bad for all the Detroit fans. I know the feeling very well.

I guess I feel sorry for the fans but damn that is one dirty team. I can't believe even with the Forsett play the fans are complaining about the refs. There were so many flags which should have been thrown against the Lions today.

It was just crappy and constant. There was one play JJ beat 66, knocked down Stafford and then was walking away. 66 comes up behind JJ and punches him (stupid hitting someone in the shoulder pads). Didn't hurt JJ but flagrant and indicative of the way they were playing all day. Suh got away with knocking down Schaub long, long after the ball was gone all day long in addition to his other offenses.

TexansFanatic
11-22-2012, 07:43 PM
In most situations it wouldn't be excessive because outside of scoring plays (which ever fool knows are reviewed automatically in the NFL now) it would be a 15 yard penalty. It was just the situation today that made it excessive. Today's example of this penalty was like a "perfect storm" situation. Worst case scenario and Schwartz stepped into it with both feet

I just feel like Detroit should have paid with a 15 yard penalty --- like a technical foul --- but they shouldn't have been deprived of the replay.

Don't get me wrong --- Detroit had a number of chances to put the game away and then missed a chance to win it outright, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over the blown call. I simply believe the rule/penalty is ill-conceived.

MEGA SWATT
11-22-2012, 07:45 PM
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/3745245/gunkick.0_standard_730.0.gif

Awesome:lion:

Maddict5
11-22-2012, 07:46 PM
schwartz costing his team the game & playoffs was even tastier than the beautiful dinner i ate today. he is a cocky, know-it-all moron whose teams follow in his hot headed, undisciplined steps

Showtime100
11-22-2012, 07:46 PM
I just feel like Detroit should have paid with a 15 yard penalty --- like a technical foul --- but they shouldn't have been deprived of the replay.

Don't get me wrong --- Detroit had a number of chances to put the game away and then missed a chance to win it outright, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over the blown call. I simply believe the rule/penalty is ill-conceived.

I really agree with this assessment, not just the bolded. I would have been furious...lol.

Texan_Bill
11-22-2012, 07:46 PM
In most situations it wouldn't be excessive because outside of scoring plays (which ever fool knows are reviewed automatically in the NFL now) it would be a 15 yard penalty. It was just the situation today that made it excessive. Today's example of this penalty was like a "perfect storm" situation. Worst case scenario and Schwartz stepped into it with both feet

Turnovers and Touchdowns are automatically reviewed. This same situation happened four days ago except that it was a turnover. See the Atlanta game.

infantrycak
11-22-2012, 07:56 PM
Turnovers and Touchdowns are automatically reviewed. This same situation happened four days ago except that it was a turnover. See the Atlanta game.

And it happened last year to Schwartz' benefit against Oakland. He knew the rule. He admitted it after the game. His hot head cost him.

ESAD2-14
11-22-2012, 08:00 PM
Texans received a gift from the ref's for sure. There is not a team in the league that would not have taken that touchdown though. That is why the guys on the field are supposed to play through the whistle I presume. If Schwartz doesn't throw his flag that play gets reviewed and it's not a TD.

Showtime100
11-22-2012, 08:05 PM
Texans received a gift from the ref's for sure. There is not a team in the league that would not have taken that touchdown though. That is why the guys on the field are supposed to play through the whistle I presume. If Schwartz doesn't throw his flag that play gets reviewed and it's not a TD.

I hate to point this out, but you contradicted yourself, correctly I might add.

The Texans received a gift from the refs, you said. Then you said it when you finished with "if Schwartz doesn't throw his flag that play gets reviewed and it's not a TD."

The play was called according to the rules.

I know, it sure is a twister in a court of law....I mean fans.

ESAD2-14
11-22-2012, 08:13 PM
I hate to point this out, but you contradicted yourself, correctly I might add.

The Texans received a gift from the refs, you said. Then you said it when you finished with "if Schwartz doesn't throw his flag that play gets reviewed and it's not a TD."

The play was called according to the rules.

I know, it sure is a twister in a court of law....I mean fans.

In all actuality the Texans received two gifts. One from the ref's than another from Schwartz. I am not complaining at all, had it happened to us and the Lions were on the receiving end of that call, their fans and team would have accepted just as much as us. Them's the breaks, and for to long the Texans have been on the other side of calls like that. I'll take it and let the other teams fans groan about it for weeks on end instead of us this time around.

Texan_Bill
11-22-2012, 08:16 PM
And it happened last year to Schwartz' benefit against Oakland. He knew the rule. He admitted it after the game. His hot head cost him.

Man.. I didn't realize that. What a dumbass!!

Texan_Bill
11-22-2012, 08:19 PM
In all actuality the Texans received two gifts. One from the ref's than another from Schwartz. I am not complaining at all, had it happened to us and the Lions were on the receiving end of that call, their fans and team would have accepted just as much as us. Them's the breaks, and for to long the Texans have been on the other side of calls like that. I'll take it and let the other teams fans groan about it for weeks on end instead of us this time around.

I'm not complaining either because in the first 8 seasons, we've rarely recieved many gifts. :wild:

We played as though we believed "giving was better than receiving".

Texanmike02
11-22-2012, 08:25 PM
Why does the rule exist in the first place? I've been trying to think of a reason and can't.


Also good job by Forsett playing to the whistle!

I think it is to keep coaches from being able to influence a play by basically asking for a challenge when the booth is responsible. Kind of like a free challenge.

Mike

Showtime100
11-22-2012, 08:31 PM
In all actuality the Texans received two gifts. One from the ref's than another from Schwartz. I am not complaining at all, had it happened to us and the Lions were on the receiving end of that call, their fans and team would have accepted just as much as us. Them's the breaks, and for to long the Texans have been on the other side of calls like that. I'll take it and let the other teams fans groan about it for weeks on end instead of us this time around.


I hear you and I get it. In all actuality we are.....

10-1

You and I both love it. I guess at the end of the day I don't compute "what if's." If a ref in Pittburgh didn't smoke a bag of weed and have his mom piss in a bottle the Oilers would have had one less "what-ifs."

Kidding, but you get my drift.

TheRealJoker
11-22-2012, 08:36 PM
Why didn't Detroit get to review the Texans' td?

Because **** them that's why!!!

Showtime100
11-22-2012, 08:38 PM
-------

Hervoyel
11-22-2012, 08:53 PM
I feel for Lions fans..... I just can't reach them.

bigfan77801
11-22-2012, 08:59 PM
Screw them!!

We were all taught as little kids to play until you hear the whistle - Shame on the Lions Players.

Coaches need to be held accountable for knowing the rules. Shame on Jim Schwartz.

Have you noticed that Kubiak calls a ref. over to discuss the options before throwing a challenge flag?? That's why!

I meant I thought it was really funny watching the Lions fans implode.

thunderkyss
11-22-2012, 09:42 PM
I'm not complaining either because in the first 8 seasons, we've rarely recieved many gifts. :wild:



Good point. We "never" get the gifts..... times a'changing.

Ranger Tom
11-22-2012, 10:21 PM
I really wish the referee had gone into detail while he made that announcement. Honestly, how much time would it have taken? "Illegal challenge, defense, fifteen yard penalty. By rule, because this challenge was made illegally, the play will not be reviewed. The result of the play is a touchdown. Penalty will be enforced at the kickoff."

Would have gone a long way, I think, in easing the crowd's pain.

Come to think of it, didn't the announcers say that this was the same referee from the Tuck Rule Game?

thunderkyss
11-22-2012, 10:30 PM
I really wish the referee had gone into detail while he made that announcement. Honestly, how much time would it have taken? "Illegal challenge, defense, fifteen yard penalty. By rule, because this challenge was made illegally, the play will not be reviewed. The result of the play is a touchdown. Penalty will be enforced at the kickoff."

Would have gone a long way, I think, in easing the crowd's pain.


I'm pretty sure he did explain it in detail. We were going nuts. The Cowboy fans in the house was saying how Forsett was down and all that. Then when we saw the TD stand, we rewound it & had a good laugh at Schwartz's expense.

GP
11-22-2012, 10:51 PM
I think it is to keep coaches from being able to influence a play by basically asking for a challenge when the booth is responsible. Kind of like a free challenge.

Mike

I think it's for what it is ruled as being: An unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.

When you already "know" that a score is being reviewed....it's a d-bag move for a coach to toss the challenge flag. Duh, it's going to be reviewed--No need to throw the red flag and make a scene about it.

Especially for those REAL full-time professional d-bags like Schwartz who need their asses tagged with a 15-yarder....and hey, let's also remove the entire challenge process while we're at it, just to make extra sure your coach gets the point. I love it.

The coaches raised hell about how unjust it was for them to have to burn limited challenges on things like TDs that might not be TDs......so the league goes and rules that you don't gotta burn a challenge or risk a timeout anymore, but check it out: In return for that concession...keep your red hankie in your damn pocket!

Seems like it is what it is: Unsportsmanlike conduct. The refs deal with bitching coaches all game, this was one thing they got in their favor to keep a coach from tossing a flag at their feet.

I loved Schwartz getting hosed by it.

b0ng
11-22-2012, 10:56 PM
Haven't been on this side of that bad of a blown call many times. Feels good man.

utahmark
11-22-2012, 11:14 PM
Wasn't he the coach who yelled at Harbaugh to "learn the rules" before the famous post game handshake last year.

infantrycak
11-22-2012, 11:17 PM
Wasn't he the coach who yelled at Harbaugh to "learn the rules" before the famous post game handshake last year.

Yes he was.

thunderkyss
11-23-2012, 12:04 AM
Haven't been on this side of that bad of a blown call many times. Feels good man.

When we start getting those roughing the passer calls, we'll know we've arrived. They were killing Matt

Malloy
11-23-2012, 04:16 AM
What Lions fans are saying:

http://detroitlionsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6021

I managed 3 pages.. :)

Chance_C
11-23-2012, 09:48 AM
Dude's avatar on the Lions' board:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/23/e5evytev.jpg

Priceless!!

TexansFanatic
11-23-2012, 03:32 PM
I'd like to hear the Mike Pereria (sp?) explanation. He's pretty good at breaking these things down for us common fans.

Ask and ye shall receive:

Mike Pereira (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/11/nfl-to-examine-replay-rule-from-lions-texans-game/)

Lucky
11-23-2012, 03:47 PM
Dude's avatar on the Lions' board:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/23/e5evytev.jpg



Snapshot of Schwartz throwing his head coaching gig away.

The Pencil Neck
11-23-2012, 04:06 PM
I dont think this rule existed last year. I can't swear to that, but.....

The rule has been around since they put in the automatic reviews. And, yes, we got stung by the same rule when Kubiak threw a challenge on a play. I don't remember the game, I just remember it happening.

ChampionTexan
11-23-2012, 04:20 PM
The rule has been around since they put in the automatic reviews. And, yes, we got stung by the same rule when Kubiak threw a challenge on a play. I don't remember the game, I just remember it happening.

Bad rule IMO (So's the tuck rule). Should be changed (So should the tuck rule). Probably will be changed (Unlike the tuck rule to this point).

Bad rules correctly enforced shouldn't overshadow everything that's happened before or after (especially after).

Signed,
The 2001 New England Patriots

pappy
11-23-2012, 04:56 PM
We learned there is worse than Kubiak and the breaks sometimes even out . Despite what everyone says no one can say we don't score despite the stupid move by the Detroit coach .

Speedy
11-23-2012, 05:22 PM
You want to penalize Detroit for unsportmanlike for throwing the flag, I have no problem with that, but you've got to get the call right. That's the most important thing here. It should have been Forsett down at the 26, add 15 yards for the penalty for throwing the flag, 1st and 10 Houston at the 41. Maybe the Texans go on to score anyway, but the system is in place to get the calls right and you can't have some stupid loophole BS take that away. Stupid rule.

I guarantee that gets changed next season.

Lucky
11-23-2012, 05:28 PM
Lets say the penalty is just 15 yards and doesn't preclude a review. That would have still given the Texans a 23 yard gain. Who is to say the Texans wouldn't score a TD on that drive? This game wasn't decided on one bad call and a worse coaching mistake.

Ruinondd
11-23-2012, 05:39 PM
Dude's avatar on the Lions' board:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/23/e5evytev.jpg

Priceless!!
That's the same pic we made the Lions subreddit put as the sidebar for losing the bet lol.

NitroGSXR
11-23-2012, 05:47 PM
Nevermind. Already posted.

Specnatz
11-23-2012, 10:39 PM
I guess I feel sorry for the fans but damn that is one dirty team. I can't believe even with the Forsett play the fans are complaining about the refs. There were so many flags which should have been thrown against the Lions today.

It was just crappy and constant. There was one play JJ beat 66, knocked down Stafford and then was walking away. 66 comes up behind JJ and punches him (stupid hitting someone in the shoulder pads). Didn't hurt JJ but flagrant and indicative of the way they were playing all day. Suh got away with knocking down Schaub long, long after the ball was gone all day long in addition to his other offenses.

I am shocked no one has even commented on this. 66 had several plays where he dragged a defender down. The O-line and D-line hit play after play after the whistle and there was no call.

Giant Tiger
11-23-2012, 10:44 PM
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/3745245/gunkick.0_standard_730.0.gif

I was pissed off when I saw this. He's mad at the call, but he has no problem with his team playing dirty. Typical goon coach.

PapaL
11-23-2012, 10:55 PM
Ahhh horse****. I'm tired of people talking about this bad play and bad penalty. It is what it is. There was plenty of time for both teams to make plays. We benefitted.

Let's get rid of the gay ass tuck rule. Now THAT'S a rule and play that was conveniently dug up and screwed one team.

Giant Tiger
11-23-2012, 10:57 PM
Screw them!!

We were all taught as little kids to play until you hear the whistle - Shame on the Lions Players.

Coaches need to be held accountable for knowing the rules. Shame on Jim Schwartz.

Have you noticed that Kubiak calls a ref. over to discuss the options before throwing a challenge flag?? That's why!

Agreed. Play until the whistle. Didn't Jason Witten catch a ball, then just toss it away a few years back? Nobody even picked up the ball :shocked

heymak
11-24-2012, 12:39 AM
Even if they got the call right, wouldn't we still have been at 3rd and 5. No way to know now what could have been. Lions coach blew the call. The Texans still had to win the game.

infantrycak
11-24-2012, 12:51 AM
Even if they got the call right, wouldn't we still have been at 3rd and 5. No way to know now what could have been. Lions coach blew the call. The Texans still had to win the game.

Would have been about 3rd and 2. There is no way to say we would have been stopped there. We marched it 97 yards later.

ajohnson80
11-24-2012, 01:25 AM
I was wondering, does anyone know what happens if Kubiak throws the flag instead? Would this also make the play not reviewable? If so why aren't coaches abusing this rule until it gets changed...

infantrycak
11-24-2012, 01:32 AM
I was wondering, does anyone know what happens if Kubiak throws the flag instead? Would this also make the play not reviewable? If so why aren't coaches abusing this rule until it gets changed...

The rule is written to avoid that. It says the team which throws the flag illegally cannot benefit from a review. In this example since a review could do nothing other than benefit Detroit there was no review. If Kubiak threw it they could still review because it could benefit Detroit.

ajohnson80
11-24-2012, 02:09 AM
The rule is written to avoid that. It says the team which throws the flag illegally cannot benefit from a review. In this example since a review could do nothing other than benefit Detroit there was no review. If Kubiak threw it they could still review because it could benefit Detroit.

Ok, thanks for that. The rule was new to me as well as coach schwartz apparently lol

JCTexan
11-24-2012, 02:20 AM
I was wondering, does anyone know what happens if Kubiak throws the flag instead? Would this also make the play not reviewable? If so why aren't coaches abusing this rule until it gets changed...

If Forsett is ruled down by contact, even if he wasn't down on the field, the play is dead. The most Forsett could have gotten if the whistle was blown was the 3rd & 2 scenario. There would have been no purpose for a challenge for Kubiak even if it was a legitimate TD run. That's the reason I believe the referees should be commended for not blowing the whistle.

ajohnson80
11-24-2012, 02:34 AM
I think you missed my point there. I was talking about exploiting the rule that all scoring plays are reviewed. If Kubiak throws the flag and gets a penalty thus making the play not reviewable, it is certainly worth a 15 yard penalty for them not to review a play that would be overturned and take points off the board.

infantrycak
11-24-2012, 02:35 AM
Ok, thanks for that. The rule was new to me as well as coach schwartz apparently lol

It wasn't new to Schwartz. Last year he yelled "know the rules" when Harbough got hit for the same thing. He admitted he knew the rule after the game.

SAMURAITEXAN
11-24-2012, 07:07 AM
Why does the rule exist in the first place? I've been trying to think of a reason and can't.


Also good job by Forsett playing to the whistle!

Talk about a lot of rules, Zebra, and Schwartz and yes it is stupid rule mistake by both sides but, I am glad someone is mentioning football awareness of Forsett!

cbs1507
11-24-2012, 09:03 AM
I dont think this rule existed last year. I can't swear to that, but.....

If you remember the famous "handshake" game from last Thanksgiving with the Lions/49ers. Harbaugh got penalized for the same thing. Schwartz told Harbaugh to know the *******kn rules. I'd say karma did it's job (which is probably why you see the idiot immediately saying "it's on me" on the sideline because he knew the rule).

CloakNNNdagger
11-24-2012, 09:55 AM
Ben Austro is considered an expert in analyzing NFL officiating. He is the editor of Football Zebras.com (http://www.footballzebras.com/), a site that, in addition to posting weekly referee assignments, does excellent weekly reviews and interpretations of confusing or controversial calls. This piece essentially answers all of our questions succinctly yet in detail.


Revoked replay review result of repeated rulebook revisions
Posted on November 23, 2012 by Ben Austro
Week 12: Texans at Lions (video)

Itís said that the penalty should fit the crime, but because of a continuously revised rulebook, a pair of rules that once made sense had combined into a seemingly harsh penalty.

The rule is simple, and Lions coach Jim Schwartz realized it when it was explained to him: if the play cannot be challenged because it is under the exclusive jurisdiction of the replay official, itís an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. If the replay official has not committed to a review, the challenge flag then freezes the replay officialís ability to review the play for that teamís benefit. (This does not prevent the replay official from reviewing a play in the other teamís benefit.)

As it happened in the third quarter, a touchdown run where Texans running back Justin Forsett was clearly down, clearly could not be overturned because Schwartz threw the challenge flag immediately, well before the replay official could even consider initiating the review. (The same happened to Falcons coach Mike Smith just four days earlier on a turnover challenge.)

But why such a harsh penalty? There are two separate revisions to the rulebook that have come crashing together to cause Schwartz to be denied a certain reversal.

Prior to all touchdowns and all turnover plays being reviewable only on the replay officialís discretion, a coach was able to challenge just about any play, as long as it wasnít after the two-minute warning. (Also, challenges have never been permitted if a coach had used his available challenges or did not have a timeout remaining.) However, coaches were using the red flag to stop play to argue over calls. To avoid this misuse of the challenge system, it became a 15-yard penalty in 2005 to challenge when prohibited to do so. And at that time it was simple: put the red flag away at the two minute warning, after the second challenge, or after the final timeout was taken.

Also, a loophole in the rules allowed a team took an intentional foul to buy extra time for a replay challenge ó either for their own coach or the replay official. Mike Pereira, who was then the vice president of officiating, said in 2009 it would be legal to do so. Any penalty which prevented the snap from happening kept the previous play available for review, including intentional encroachment penalties to stop a hurry-up offense or delay of game penalties by the offense. The Competition Committee closed that loophole by declaring a team may not benefit from a challenge when a team has committed a foul to delay the next snap.

As the rule was written, the intent was to include any between-downs foul that afforded a team extra time to consider a challenge (or the replay official for that matter). And, so, the 15-yarder that was instituted in 2005 for an illegal challenge was lumped into this category.

By adding turnover plays and touchdowns to the mix of the replay officialís domain, now individual plays became unchallengeable. Instead of following the proviso that a coach loses his challenges at a fixed time in the game ó the two-minute warning, the second challenge, the third timeout ó the challenge window opens and shuts depending on the result of the play. It is like remembering i before e except after c in grade school, and then you misspell neighbor and weigh on the next test.

As long as coaches can keep that red flag under control for the remainder of the season and the postseason, they wonít have to worry about this rule next year. It is sure to be on the top of the Competition Committee agenda in March.

Thorn
11-24-2012, 10:02 AM
de play, de play boss!!!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/82/Ricardo_Montalban_Herve_Villechaize_Fantasy_Island _1977.JPG/180px-Ricardo_Montalban_Herve_Villechaize_Fantasy_Island _1977.JPG

ObsiWan
11-24-2012, 02:11 PM
This part make no sense...
Also, a loophole in the rules allowed a team took an intentional foul to buy extra time for a replay challenge ó either for their own coach or the replay official. Mike Pereira, who was then the vice president of officiating, said in 2009 it would be legal to do so. Any penalty which prevented the snap from happening kept the previous play available for review, including intentional encroachment penalties to stop a hurry-up offense or delay of game penalties by the offense. The Competition Committee closed that loophole by declaring a team may not benefit from a challenge when a team has committed a foul to delay the next snap.
So those are considered "between snaps plays"??
How??

CloakNNNdagger
11-24-2012, 03:22 PM
This part make no sense...

Any penalty which prevented the snap from happening kept the previous play available for review, including intentional encroachment penalties to stop a hurry-up offense (for the benefit of the defense)...... or intentional delay of game penalties by the offense (for the benefit of the offense). (rewritten for clarity)

So those are considered "between snaps plays"??
How??

Both penalties would occur between the last snap and the anticipated subsequent snap............i.e., "between snap plays."

infantrycak
11-24-2012, 04:22 PM
From PFT.com

Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt, who benefited six days ago from the rule that wipes out replay review if a coach asks for one when one is automatic, explained on Friday that coaches are reminded before every game to not throw the red flag after touchdowns or turnovers.

“They make a point of telling you before the game, on turnovers and scoring plays, you can’t throw the flag,” Whisenhunt said, via Kent Somers of the Arizona Republic.

And any vestige of sympathy just left the building.