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View Full Version : Schaub #2 all time, passing yards in a game?


SrslySirius
11-18-2012, 04:22 PM
I tried my hand at some Google-fu, and this was all I could find.

http://www.numeroten.com/top-10-lists/sports/top-10-most-passing-yards-in-an-nfl-game/

So did Matt Schaub, with 527 yards today, just tie Warren Moon's #2 record for most passing yards in a game? Awesome, if so.

sandmanx
11-18-2012, 04:24 PM
Yep, he's already on the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_quarterbacks_who_have_passed_for_400_o r_more_yards_in_a_game#500-yard_games

TEXANRED
11-18-2012, 04:28 PM
I tried my hand at some Google-fu, and this was all I could find.

http://www.numeroten.com/top-10-lists/sports/top-10-most-passing-yards-in-an-nfl-game/

So did Matt Schaub, with 527 yards today, just tie Warren Moon's #2 record for most passing yards in a game? Awesome, if so.

Kinda funny cus today is Moon's bday!

SrslySirius
11-18-2012, 04:31 PM
Also, I believe Andre Johnson's 273 yards put him in the top #10 all time for receiving yards in a game.

http://www.numeroten.com/top-10-lists/sports/top-10-most-passing-yards-in-an-nfl-game/

welsh texan
11-18-2012, 04:40 PM
I believe there was some people asking for more passing by Schaub in the 20k thread a couple of weeks ago, think I posted pointing out that Kubes has a pretty itchy trigger to air it out when behind. Didn't even need the itchy trigger today we were well out of the game in the 4th Q and went nuts to bring it back.

When Kubes said we need to find more ways to win this week, I'm not sure that was exactly what he had in mind, but we still got the W, and aside from the two INT's, I was pleased to see that we do still have it through the air.

Kubiak calls a really very extreme percentages game, if we're ahead, we run the ball with the odd pass thrown in to stop the D from cheating, behind? Air it out with just the odd run here and there for the same purposes.

Its kept games close and led to respectable records when we've had a porous D and sketchy OLine play (8-8 years) and it seems to work a charm now too.

Happy with the win today, and that is the most important, I hear the coaches do an all-nighter tonight due to the Thursday game to get the gameplan ready for the players to come into on Monday, well they have a ****load of things to go through on our own game before they move on to looking at how the Lions play. 9-1, just win baby!

GP
11-18-2012, 04:43 PM
Kinda funny cus today is Moon's bday!

No freaking way!!!!

OK, now I'm really creeped out.

TheMatrix31
11-18-2012, 04:45 PM
Schaub had his typical questionable throws but dammit if he didn't come up HUGE. Next time someone says, "Schaub isn't clutch", show them this game too.

buddyboy
11-18-2012, 04:55 PM
It's crazy how fine a line it came to. If we had lost that game, people would probably blame Kubiak/schaub.

Allstar
11-18-2012, 04:56 PM
Our no huddle is lethal, wish we went with it more often.

kiwitexansfan
11-18-2012, 05:05 PM
I was moments from calling for Schaub's job last week, all is forgiven.

dc_txtech
11-18-2012, 05:14 PM
It's crazy how fine a line it came to. If we had lost that game, people would probably blame Kubiak/schaub.

Nah, I think we're past that as a fan base :kitten:

paycheck71
11-18-2012, 05:22 PM
It's crazy how fine a line it came to. If we had lost that game, people would probably blame Kubiak/schaub.

I think it would have been more on D. They had a rough day today.

Speedy
11-18-2012, 07:35 PM
Vintage Schaub 2010. Only this time it goes in the W column.

dalemurphy
11-18-2012, 07:52 PM
Only Schaub can throw for over 500 yards, complete 43 passes, and 5 touchdowns while going largely unnoticed.

His modest style may not excite fans, but I guarantee you his teammates and coaches love the guy and believe in him. The dude can play. Those 527 yards weren't cheap. That last throw was the only screen pass of the game and there were no quick slants taken for 80 yards. I don't even recall a great catch. Nope... he just continued to fit the ball softly into his receivers' hands, over and over and over... Greg Graham, Owen Daniels, James Casey, and Kevin Walter combined for about 200 yards.

GP
11-18-2012, 07:58 PM
It's crazy how fine a line it came to. If we had lost that game, people would probably blame Kubiak/schaub.

What, you think this just means all is forgiven of Kubiak???

We got the win, but damnation Kubiak went back and forth all day long...doing things that made sense (causing us to succeed), then deviating from it (causing us to suck). It was the most wish washy playcalling day I have seen in a long, long time.

The determination of our guys out there, and a bit of the Jags losing their nerve in important moments, saved our asses today.

Whether it is Dennison or Kubiak or both, I don't know, but this game and the GB game are the only two games I've seen our defense play a bit "off." This thing of the Texans' offense kicking back and sort of sleepwalking, it happens too often. We're a great team, though, and the leadership by Schaub & his offense is what is willing this team to victories.

Schaub is QB of the year, IMO. Period.

hradhak
11-18-2012, 08:04 PM
Only Schaub can throw for over 500 yards, complete 43 passes, and 5 touchdowns while going largely unnoticed.

His modest style may not excite fans, but I guarantee you his teammates and coaches love the guy and believe in him. The dude can play. Those 527 yards weren't cheap. That last throw was the only screen pass of the game and there were no quick slants taken for 80 yards. I don't even recall a great catch. Nope... he just continued to fit the ball softly into his receivers' hands, over and over and over... Greg Graham, Owen Daniels, James Casey, and Kevin Walter combined for about 200 yards.

Honestly, if Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Brees put up these numbers, the media would be slobbering all over it. Schaub will never get that kind of attention, and I think that's probably the way Schaub wants it. I have been worried all year that we are not being tested in games and that could hurt us in the playoffs. It's good to see that our offense responded in a big way when it needed to. That was a big win and it came from a QB who should (but probably never will) be mentioned when talk of current elite QBs is mentioned.

hradhak
11-18-2012, 08:08 PM
What, you think this just means all is forgiven of Kubiak???

We got the win, but damnation Kubiak went back and forth all day long...doing things that made sense (causing us to succeed), then deviating from it (causing us to suck). It was the most wish washy playcalling day I have seen in a long, long time.

The determination of our guys out there, and a bit of the Jags losing their nerve in important moments, saved our asses today.

Whether it is Dennison or Kubiak or both, I don't know, but this game and the GB game are the only two games I've seen our defense play a bit "off." This thing of the Texans' offense kicking back and sort of sleepwalking, it happens too often. We're a great team, though, and the leadership by Schaub & his offense is what is willing this team to victories.

Schaub is QB of the year, IMO. Period.

I have wondered if the reps players were getting were because of the short week. Forsett played a lot more than expected (and probably should be getting a lot more carries based on his play today). Kubes still frustrates me with his playcalls, but you take the good with the bad. He's done good for this team and we can't just give all the credit to Wade Phillips.

Second on the Schaub for QB of the year. He's clearly been the best game manager.

76Texan
11-18-2012, 08:35 PM
I was moments from calling for Schaub's job last week, all is forgiven.

Did he tweet to forgive you already? :)

gwallaia
11-18-2012, 08:38 PM
I remember watching the Oilers game against the Chiefs when Moon threw for 527. Seems like the Oilers let up at the end and got the win and did not make an effort to break Van Brocklin's record which I think Moon would have easily done.

Corrosion
11-18-2012, 08:38 PM
Man .... Van Brocklin's record of 554 has stood since 1951 .... Thats amazing.

76Texan
11-18-2012, 08:40 PM
I have wondered if the reps players were getting were because of the short week. Forsett played a lot more than expected (and probably should be getting a lot more carries based on his play today). Kubes still frustrates me with his playcalls, but you take the good with the bad. He's done good for this team and we can't just give all the credit to Wade Phillips.

Second on the Schaub for QB of the year. He's clearly been the best game manager.

It's impossible to make some people happy, especially GP :)

Whose play call was it that allow the Texans to score the most point ever?

Did Kubiak tell Graham to miss the FG?

Did Kubiak tell Wade he'd better have his defense sucking?

Come on guys :)

Corrosion
11-18-2012, 08:42 PM
It's impossible to make some people happy, especially GP :)

Whose play call was it that allow the Texans to score the most point ever?

Did Kubiak tell Graham to miss the TWO FG's?

Did Kubiak tell Wade he'd better have his defense sucking?

Come on guys :)


:pissed:

76Texan
11-18-2012, 08:49 PM
:pissed:

Thank you for the correction.

buddyboy
11-18-2012, 08:55 PM
What, you think this just means all is forgiven of Kubiak???

We got the win, but damnation Kubiak went back and forth all day long...doing things that made sense (causing us to succeed), then deviating from it (causing us to suck). It was the most wish washy playcalling day I have seen in a long, long time.

The determination of our guys out there, and a bit of the Jags losing their nerve in important moments, saved our asses today.

Whether it is Dennison or Kubiak or both, I don't know, but this game and the GB game are the only two games I've seen our defense play a bit "off." This thing of the Texans' offense kicking back and sort of sleepwalking, it happens too often. We're a great team, though, and the leadership by Schaub & his offense is what is willing this team to victories.

Schaub is QB of the year, IMO. Period.

If it's on Kubiak's shoulders when the team and HIS players fail, then he should also get credit when the team and his players succeed. It should not be, "Schaub won despite Kubiak, but Kubiak is the head coach, so he is to blame for the losses". Just like Kubiak was responsible for the defensive woes with Frank Bush and company, but has zero to do with our defense this year or last.

I'm not saying all is forgiven, please understand that. I'm saying that win or lose, Kubiak deserves both credit and blame, but not all of it in either case.

Corrosion
11-18-2012, 09:02 PM
Kubiak fumbled (Foster) and threw two INT's (Schaub) .... Kubiak gave up three TD's on third down's two of them 60+ yards .... Kubiak missed two FG's ..... Yep , Kubiak did all that and still found a way to eeek out a W.

Thorn
11-18-2012, 09:09 PM
Strangely, being the Kubiak disser I normally am, I don't feel a need to get on him today. Yeah, the defense laid a big turd today, but that's more on Wade than Kubiak. We all know the story there. Kubiak's offense saved our asses today.

Speedy
11-18-2012, 09:17 PM
So did Matt Schaub, with 527 yards today, just tie Warren Moon's #2 record for most passing yards in a game? Awesome, if so.

Not only that, but of the top 15 of most yards passing in a single game, only Matt Schaub is on that list twice.

SrslySirius
11-18-2012, 09:23 PM
I remember watching the Oilers game against the Chiefs when Moon threw for 527. Seems like the Oilers let up at the end and got the win and did not make an effort to break Van Brocklin's record which I think Moon would have easily done.

That's before my time. But my Dad tells me that Moon got pulled for the backup early in the 4th quarter of that game, and that he would have easily broken the record if they'd let him stay in. So basically, Warren Moon holds that honor with 3 quarters of work. Amazing.

Corrosion
11-18-2012, 10:08 PM
That's before my time. But my Dad tells me that Moon got pulled for the backup early in the 4th quarter of that game, and that he would have easily broken the record if they'd let him stay in. So basically, Warren Moon holds that honor with 3 quarters of work. Amazing.

The ole chuck and duck (run and shoot) was fun to watch .... but I'll never forget that damn Barfalo game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Comeback_(American_football))they lost after leading .... 35-3 in the 3rd quarter .... Not to mention it was the Bills backup QB Frank Reich and not Jim Kelly under center.


That led to .... the hiring of Buddy Ryan and this incident (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPK3cDl7Ftw)


Buddy Ryan: f luck your chuck and duck.

Playoffs
11-18-2012, 10:17 PM
That's before my time. But my Dad tells me that Moon got pulled for the backup early in the 4th quarter of that game, and that he would have easily broken the record if they'd let him stay in. So basically, Warren Moon holds that honor with 3 quarters of work. Amazing.

Only one QB had stats for Houston (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199012160kan.htm) that day.

TexansFanatic
11-18-2012, 10:19 PM
That's before my time. But my Dad tells me that Moon got pulled for the backup early in the 4th quarter of that game, and that he would have easily broken the record if they'd let him stay in. So basically, Warren Moon holds that honor with 3 quarters of work. Amazing.

Moon wasn't pulled for the backup. He played the entire game. But rather than call more passing plays in order to get Moon the record in the closing minutes, the coaches rightly decided to run out the clock.

SrslySirius
11-18-2012, 10:33 PM
Moon wasn't pulled for the backup. He played the entire game. But rather than call more passing plays in order to get Moon the record in the closing minutes, the coaches rightly decided to run out the clock.

Ah. Well my Dad does seem to have selective memory. Thanks for clearing that up.

I know some folks will downplay this accomplishment because we got an extra possession in overtime. But posting HISTORIC numbers, I should think, would quiet some doubts people have about Matt Schaub's ability to carry this team to victory. He might not post 400 yards every week, but he sure as hell seems to come through when it counts.

TexansFanatic
11-18-2012, 10:42 PM
He might not post 400 yards every week, but he sure as hell seems to come through when it counts.

He's a damn good QB --- I don't think there's any way around that. He is now 13-1 in his last 14 starts.

Corrosion
11-18-2012, 10:57 PM
Ah. Well my Dad does seem to have selective memory. Thanks for clearing that up.

I know some folks will downplay this accomplishment because we got an extra possession in overtime. But posting HISTORIC numbers, I should think, would quiet some doubts people have about Matt Schaub's ability to carry this team to victory. He might not post 400 yards every week, but he sure as hell seems to come through when it counts.

He had posted great numbers in consecutive seasons (4500+ back to back , I believe only 9 QB's in history have accomplished the feat - from memory).

We all know he can throw the damn ball around and he's executed some 4th quarter comebacks (to be let down by the defense three times in 2010).


I think the biggest two knocks on Schaub are his lack of mobility (ability to extend plays) and that he doesnt have a cannon for an arm. Both would be fair criticism.

But , you do have to acknowledge the fact that he's "usually" very accurate , doesnt make many mistakes and is one of the best "ball handlers" in the NFL. (He probably left 50-75 yards on the field today with poor throws)


To be honest , I dont think he was really on top of his game today .... until that stretch of 16 straight completions.

One thing for sure , he's got to be more careful with the ball - Int last week , Two and a fumble this week. Very uncharacteristic mistakes by Schaub ..... You dont often lose the turnover battle and win in the NFL - Today they got away with one.

ChampionTexan
11-18-2012, 11:07 PM
Moon wasn't pulled for the backup. He played the entire game. But rather than call more passing plays in order to get Moon the record in the closing minutes, the coaches rightly decided to run out the clock.

Yeah, they pulled in the reins when the game was clearly in hand, but if I recall correctly, Pardee said later that he didn't realize how close Moon was to the record, or he would have let him try to get it.

KC ended up going 11-5 that season. Kevin Ross and Albert Lewis were their starting CBs back then, and many believed they were the best pair in the NFL at the time. Both went to the Pro Bowl that year, and Lewis was All Pro.

MistaRed
11-18-2012, 11:08 PM
He had posted great numbers in consecutive seasons (4500+ back to back , I believe only 9 QB's in history have accomplished the feat - from memory).

Close but not quite. Schaub is 1 of 12 QB's in nfl history to throw for 4,000 in back to back seasons. Only 5 have thrown for 4,500 back to back: Philip Rivers (2010-11), Dan Fouts (1980-81), Warren Moon (1990-91), Peyton Manning (2009-10) and Drew Brees (2010-11).

infantrycak
11-18-2012, 11:12 PM
He also holds the record for most passing yards by a visiting QB in Lambeau and did it during the coldest game of the year - 414 yds.

TexansFanatic
11-18-2012, 11:12 PM
if I recall correctly, Pardee said later that he didn't realize how close Moon was to the record, or he would have let him try to get it.


That does sound vaguely familiar.


KC ended up going 11-5 that season. Kevin Ross and Albert Lewis were their starting CBs back then, and many believed they were the best pair in the NFL at the time. Both went to the Pro Bowl that year, and Lewis was All Pro.

Wow, I had forgotten that. I just looked at KC's coaching staff that year. Bill Cowher was the defensive coordinator and Tony Dungy was the defensive backs coach.

Corrosion
11-19-2012, 12:09 AM
Close but not quite. Schaub is 1 of 12 QB's in nfl history to throw for 4,000 in back to back seasons. Only 5 have thrown for 4,500 back to back: Philip Rivers (2010-11), Dan Fouts (1980-81), Warren Moon (1990-91), Peyton Manning (2009-10) and Drew Brees (2010-11).

I didnt bother to look it up .... Just went from memory knowing the list was short. Thanks for filling in the blanks in my memory.

Thats some lofty company with Fouts , Manning and Brees ....

I probably dont give Moon or Rivers the credit they are due but they remind me of one another as they'll make some big plays and then make critical mistakes.

Marcus
11-19-2012, 01:18 AM
Deleted

htownfan32
11-19-2012, 02:16 AM
Wade is a great DC. But he didn't play up to 50-50 with Kubiak. When this team plays 50-50, we have our best games. When one half plays better than the other, we have off days. Our mark of greatness is that we win regardless. Yes, the defense was off today. I feel that Kubiak is taking the heat even after bailing out Wade. Yes, I realize that Wade has bailed Kubiak out more times, but remember 2010. Kubiak is not an idiot. The man is an offensive guru who has been let down by crappy defenses many times. He showed how clutch he can be, and how clutch Matt Schaub can be when this ballclub needs it. The 2010 offense has woken up. They, with Wade's D, make this team unstoppable

:aggressive: :aggressive:.

thunderkyss
11-19-2012, 05:59 AM
He threw the ball 14 times to Andre Johnson & every one was dang near uncontested.

How does a man get wtf open 14 times when they know we're going to throw the ball & he's our best receiver?

Lucky
11-19-2012, 06:23 AM
He threw the ball 14 times to Andre Johnson & every one was dang near uncontested.

How does a man get wtf open 14 times when they know we're going to throw the ball & he's our best receiver?
Andre was actually targeted 19 times.

Quick answer to your question: Johnson is better than the guys trying to cover him.

GP
11-19-2012, 07:06 AM
If it's on Kubiak's shoulders when the team and HIS players fail, then he should also get credit when the team and his players succeed. It should not be, "Schaub won despite Kubiak, but Kubiak is the head coach, so he is to blame for the losses". Just like Kubiak was responsible for the defensive woes with Frank Bush and company, but has zero to do with our defense this year or last.

I'm not saying all is forgiven, please understand that. I'm saying that win or lose, Kubiak deserves both credit and blame, but not all of it in either case.

In his first two or three seasons here as HC, I was able to give him a pass on days when things fell apart.

Seeing as how he's well into his tenure as a HC now, no. When the team looks flat, slow, uninterested in focusing and doing consistently good work...that's 100% "on Kubiak."

Granted, the team never freaked out today. So he obviously has them coached up overall, it's just the small details that get me pissed off at him.

thunderkyss
11-19-2012, 07:23 AM
In his first two or three seasons here as HC, I was able to give him a pass on days when things fell apart.

Seeing as how he's well into his tenure as a HC now, no. When the team looks flat, slow, uninterested in focusing and doing consistently good work...that's 100% "on Kubiak."

Granted, the team never freaked out today. So he obviously has them coached up overall, it's just the small details that get me pissed off at him.

This is stupid. We used to do the same thing to the Colts when they were king of the AFC South. Whether we finished 2-14 or 9-7, the Colts (& their fans) knew they had better bring their A-game. Nodoby thought the Colts were flat when we beat them or gave them a game when we weren't very good.

El Tejano
11-19-2012, 07:52 AM
This is stupid. We used to do the same thing to the Colts when they were king of the AFC South. Whether we finished 2-14 or 9-7, the Colts (& their fans) knew they had better bring their A-game. Nodoby thought the Colts were flat when we beat them or gave them a game when we weren't very good.

This is true and the exact same thing I said about our win after the game today. Nobody ever apologized to us when it took miracles for Manning to come from behind to beat us. Instead they looked at those wins as The Colts being that good. We need to do the same thing!!! We have a good team.

GP
11-19-2012, 08:30 AM
This is stupid. We used to do the same thing to the Colts when they were king of the AFC South. Whether we finished 2-14 or 9-7, the Colts (& their fans) knew they had better bring their A-game. Nodoby thought the Colts were flat when we beat them or gave them a game when we weren't very good.

If I happened to be a Patriots fan, and Coach Bill didn't have his team prepared, focused, and playing their guts out in a game...I'd say the same thing about Bill.

Sometimes you guys live in a vacuum on this stuff. This isn't me "hating on Kubiak," this is me just saying that a coach of his tenure, with his talent, should have his offense geared up and playing supremely focused football every week. Those guys have a window, and they better get through the window before it closes. Slow and steady wins the race is good up until the last few yards of the race...then you better pour it on and finish the job.

El Tejano
11-19-2012, 08:36 AM
I still have the football card of Warren Moon acheiving that. I saw that game too!!!

thunderkyss
11-19-2012, 08:41 AM
If I happened to be a Patriots fan, and Coach Bill didn't have his team prepared, focused, and playing their guts out in a game...I'd say the same thing about Bill.

Sometimes you guys live in a vacuum on this stuff. This isn't me "hating on Kubiak," this is me just saying that a coach of his tenure, with his talent, should have his offense geared up and playing supremely focused football every week. Those guys have a window, and they better get through the window before it closes. Slow and steady wins the race is good up until the last few yards of the race...then you better pour it on and finish the job.

They weren't calling for the coaches head when the Bills whupped them last year. They weren't calling for his head when they lost to Arizona & Seattle this year.

It's the NFL. Pulling out a close one in OT vs the Jags should not be a negative on our team or our coach.

The Pencil Neck
11-19-2012, 10:57 AM
If I happened to be a Patriots fan, and Coach Bill didn't have his team prepared, focused, and playing their guts out in a game...I'd say the same thing about Bill.

Sometimes you guys live in a vacuum on this stuff. This isn't me "hating on Kubiak," this is me just saying that a coach of his tenure, with his talent, should have his offense geared up and playing supremely focused football every week. Those guys have a window, and they better get through the window before it closes. Slow and steady wins the race is good up until the last few yards of the race...then you better pour it on and finish the job.

This offense just set records and you're saying it's not geared up? We're halfway through the race and you're asking for them to pour it on and finish the job? The point to pour it on and finish the job is in the playoffs.

Personally, I think it's you having unrealistic expectations. We've put some ass-whoopings on some good teams this year. We've beaten teams by shutting them down in defensive battles; we've beaten teams by outscoring them in shoot-outs. We're 9-1.

During the game thread, you were saying "patience." I think you need to say that to yourself just a bit.

dalemurphy
11-19-2012, 11:08 AM
If I happened to be a Patriots fan, and Coach Bill didn't have his team prepared, focused, and playing their guts out in a game...I'd say the same thing about Bill.

So, if you were in charge of a football team, you would burn through a Hall of Fame coach every year or two... this is how you defend yourself?

You can not go through the history of any coach in the NFL without seeing games where their team isn't playing to their potential. I get being critical of it when it happens. I am too. However, communicating as if the coach isn't qualified or is a failure, that is where you lose most reasonable people. The Texans are 9-1, including wins against 3 Superbowl contenders... And, they are coming off a season where they advanced in the playoffs with a rookie, 5th round, 3rd string QB. Chill out!

76Texan
11-19-2012, 11:21 AM
This offense just set records and you're saying it's not geared up? We're halfway through the race and you're asking for them to pour it on and finish the job? The point to pour it on and finish the job is in the playoffs.

Personally, I think it's you having unrealistic expectations. We've put some ass-whoopings on some good teams this year. We've beaten teams by shutting them down in defensive battles; we've beaten teams by outscoring them in shoot-outs. We're 9-1.

During the game thread, you were saying "patience." I think you need to say that to yourself just a bit.

So, if you were in charge of a football team, you would burn through a Hall of Fame coach every year or two... this is how you defend yourself?

You can not go through the history of any coach in the NFL without seeing games where their team isn't playing to their potential. I get being critical of it when it happens. I am too. However, communicating as if the coach isn't qualified or is a failure, that is where you lose most reasonable people. The Texans are 9-1, including wins against 3 Superbowl contenders... And, they are coming off a season where they advanced in the playoffs with a rookie, 5th round, 3rd string QB. Chill out!
If GP is an owner or a GM, he would have fired Belichick as the Browns did when he had only one winning season in his five years there.

And look where that franchise is now.

And if GP was with the Pats, he would have fired Belichick in his first year when they went 5-11.

Yupe, GP will have his way no matter what :)

Perki-Perk
11-19-2012, 11:25 AM
.... Not to mention it was the Bills backup QB Frank Reich and not Jim Kelly under center.

Is it safe to say Houston franchises don't do to well against backups?? :kitten:

thunderkyss
11-19-2012, 11:47 AM
Is it safe to say Houston franchises don't do to well against backups?? :kitten:

We stopped Jason Campbell.

I wonder if we're going to see Shaun Hill Thursday. The Texans are starting to look like bad news for starting QBs.

TexansFanatic
11-19-2012, 12:38 PM
The Texans are starting to look like bad news for starting QBs.

http://www.realclearsports.com/blognetwork/AL%20Davis.jpg
The quarterback must go down, and he must go down hard.

ThaJokaa
11-19-2012, 12:50 PM
*cough* bounty system *cough* jk jk

El Tejano
11-19-2012, 01:08 PM
Well noone apologized when we took New England to OT in our sorry years and they barely squeaked out a win vs. us.

ChampionTexan
11-19-2012, 01:12 PM
Well noone apologized when we took New England to OT in our sorry years and they barely squeaked out a win vs. us.

That was 2003 - The Pats went to (and won) the Super Bowl that year. We actually beat the Panthers that season - they were the other team to go to the Super Bowl.

Perki-Perk
11-19-2012, 02:21 PM
We stopped Jason Campbell.

I wonder if we're going to see Shaun Hill Thursday. The Texans are starting to look like bad news for starting QBs.

It was rainy and cold...you know the Bears aren't good in the elements...oh wait

Corrosion
11-19-2012, 02:41 PM
Andre was actually targeted 19 times.

Quick answer to your question: Johnson is better than the guys trying to cover him.

Expanded Answer: Johnson is flat out better than the guy's attempting to cover him , and Kubiak's route combinations are brilliant.

klockWork
11-19-2012, 03:52 PM
Don't remember Schaub won a game for us. That was refreshing. But I'm still not buying into a QB w/ zero pocket-presence.

76Texan
11-19-2012, 04:21 PM
Yawn

Corrosion
11-19-2012, 04:29 PM
Don't remember Schaub won a game for us. That was refreshing. But I'm still not buying into a QB w/ zero pocket-presence.

If you go back to the 2010 season , there are several games which Schaub put the team ahead .... and the defense failed to hold the two most notable were the Jets game where they had ~1:40 on the clock inside the 5 and scored a TD and to win .... the Jaq's game with the hail mary to end it.

ChampionTexan
11-19-2012, 04:49 PM
If you go back to the 2010 season , there are several games which Schaub put the team ahead .... and the defense failed to hold the two most notable were the Jets game where they had ~1:40 on the clock inside the 5 and scored a TD and to win .... the Jaq's game with the hail mary to end it.

Two games we won that season that I think apply:

1. Matt throws a TD pass to Andre with 1:13 left to tie the Redskins game. Texans subsquently win 30-27 on an OT FG by Rackers. The Texans trailed by 17 points late in the 3rd qtr., and 10 points at the beginning of the 4th qtr.

2. Texans trail the Chiefs by 10 points with 5 minutes left in the game, and score two TD's including an 11 yard TD pass to Andre with 1:54 left to win 35-31.

I heard someone call in on Koch and Kalu's show this morining and say in all seriousness that they thought yesterday was the first fourth quarter comeback Schaub ever led. He didn't say it in a derogatory fashion, he just passed it on as a fact he felt people should know. Jeez, some of our fans are stupid.

Corrosion
11-19-2012, 05:07 PM
Two games we won that season that I think apply:

1. Matt throws a TD pass to Andre with 1:13 left to tie the Redskins game. Texans subsquently win 30-27 on an OT FG by Rackers. The Texans trailed by 17 points late in the 3rd qtr., and 10 points at the beginning of the 4th qtr.

2. Texans trail the Chiefs by 10 points with 5 minutes left in the game, and score two TD's including an 11 yard TD pass to Andre with 1:54 left to win 35-31.

I heard someone call in on Koch and Kalu's show this morining and say in all seriousness that they thought yesterday was the first fourth quarter comeback Schaub ever led. He didn't say it in a derogatory fashion, he just passed it on as a fact he felt people should know. Jeez, some of our fans are stupid.

Both of those fit the description ....


If people are going to knock on Schaub , I expect it to be for his warts .... which he surely has in lack of mobility and arm strength.

Just dont go off half cocked when you dont have a clue ....


Watching him in that 5 wide set yesterday .... man he did what he wanted , when he wanted. That was a huge question answered .... cause I wondered how they would respond in that situation .... Could they protect Schaub with the defense knowing they had to throw ? Could they move the ball without play action ? Could they get it done in the redzone ?!

thunderkyss
11-19-2012, 05:16 PM
Both of those fit the description ....


If people are going to knock on Schaub , I expect it to be for his warts .... which he surely has in lack of mobility and arm strength.

Just dont go off half cocked when you dont have a clue ....


Watching him in that 5 wide set yesterday .... man he did what he wanted , when he wanted. That was a huge question answered .... cause I wondered how they would respond in that situation .... Could they protect Schaub with the defense knowing they had to throw ? Could they move the ball without play action ? Could they get it done in the redzone ?!

Man.... I agree with everything you're saying, but...

Matt has plenty of opportunity to play like he did yesterday, but he don't. It seems like he waits until we're 14 points down before he "makes **** happen" He wasn't just sitting in a perfect pocket for that comeback. He didn't settle for throwing it out of bounds. He knew we needed a play & he didn't give up on any of them. He did what he had to do to give our guys time to get open. He didn't look like Ben Rothlisberger or RGIII, but he escaped pressure, he stepped up, he waited that extra second.

I hate it when we are up by 3 & he throws it away on third down instead of trying to extend the play for just one more second. Playing it safe.... we're 9-1, I get it, & if it gets us a Lombardi, I'll take it.

But in my little mind, third down is always the time. If we're in field goal range, I can understand it. But we should never go 3 & out. Not if we have the offense we think we have. (Never is hyperbole, just saying I think we go 3 & out more than we should.... even if we lead the league with the least 3 & outs, I think we go it more than we should).

ObsiWan
11-19-2012, 05:32 PM
Is it safe to say Houston franchises don't do to well against backups?? :kitten:

Well... there is a fair amount of data to support your hypothesis...
:fostering:

76Texan
11-19-2012, 05:42 PM
Well... there is a fair amount of data to support your hypothesis...
:fostering:

LOlLolLOL

Speedy
11-19-2012, 06:09 PM
Man.... I agree with everything you're saying, but...

Matt has plenty of opportunity to play like he did yesterday, but he don't. It seems like he waits until we're 14 points down before he "makes **** happen" He wasn't just sitting in a perfect pocket for that comeback. He didn't settle for throwing it out of bounds. He knew we needed a play & he didn't give up on any of them. He did what he had to do to give our guys time to get open. He didn't look like Ben Rothlisberger or RGIII, but he escaped pressure, he stepped up, he waited that extra second.

I hate it when we are up by 3 & he throws it away on third down instead of trying to extend the play for just one more second. Playing it safe.... we're 9-1, I get it, & if it gets us a Lombardi, I'll take it.

But in my little mind, third down is always the time. If we're in field goal range, I can understand it. But we should never go 3 & out. Not if we have the offense we think we have. (Never is hyperbole, just saying I think we go 3 & out more than we should.... even if we lead the league with the least 3 & outs, I think we go it more than we should).

And sometimes you just take what the defense gives you. That 1st 4th quarter TD to make it a 7 point game was a 7 minute drive. They didn't just force their will down the field. They took what the Jags were giving them. The Jags made them eat clock and the Texans had to be perfect to do what they did and they were.

As far as the 3 and outs are concerned, I think part of the problem is the run game. At the end of the day the numbers look good but there's just too many instances where there are minimal gains, if not losses, that puts them behind schedule. The run game is almost Barry Sanders-ish. 3 carries for losses and then busting one for 50. Not that that was Sanders fault - horrible Lions o-line I know.

I don't remember which game it was, but Foster had something like 24 carries in a game for 120 yards or something like that. Looks like an awesome day, 5 yard average per carry, but 12 of his 24 carries that day were for less than 2 yards, with about 4 or 5 going for losses. The run game is just too inconsistant, even though at the end of the day, they're a top rushing team.

Corrosion
11-19-2012, 06:11 PM
Man.... I agree with everything you're saying, but...

Matt has plenty of opportunity to play like he did yesterday, but he don't. It seems like he waits until we're 14 points down before he "makes **** happen" He wasn't just sitting in a perfect pocket for that comeback. He didn't settle for throwing it out of bounds. He knew we needed a play & he didn't give up on any of them. He did what he had to do to give our guys time to get open. He didn't look like Ben Rothlisberger or RGIII, but he escaped pressure, he stepped up, he waited that extra second.

I hate it when we are up by 3 & he throws it away on third down instead of trying to extend the play for just one more second. Playing it safe.... we're 9-1, I get it, & if it gets us a Lombardi, I'll take it.

But in my little mind, third down is always the time. If we're in field goal range, I can understand it. But we should never go 3 & out. Not if we have the offense we think we have. (Never is hyperbole, just saying I think we go 3 & out more than we should.... even if we lead the league with the least 3 & outs, I think we go it more than we should).



I get all that ..... but you have to understand that .... taking those unnecessary chances can backfire and in the process , cost you W's.

Schaub does what he has to .... to win. He manages the game and limits his mistakes.

A win by one point counts just as much as a win by 30 in the standings.


I also know that they want to have him healthy for the playoffs .... and limiting his exposure to hits when the team has a lead , no matter how large is one way to ... do your best to assure that he's under center when playoff time rolls around.

I mean , we all love what TJ Yates did last season .... but I want more than a win in round one and a well played game on the road in round two.

Corrosion
11-19-2012, 06:16 PM
As far as the 3 and outs are concerned, I think part of the problem is the run game. At the end of the day the numbers look good but there's just too many instances where there are minimal gains, if not losses, that puts them behind schedule. The run game is almost Barry Sanders-ish. 3 carries for losses and then busting one for 50. Not that that was Sanders fault - horrible Lions o-line I know.

I don't remember which game it was, but Foster had something like 24 carries in a game for 120 yards or something like that. Looks like an awesome day, 5 yard average per carry, but 12 of his 24 carries that day were for less than 2 yards, with about 4 or 5 going for losses. The run game is just too inconsistant, even though at the end of the day, they're a top rushing team.

I agree with this ... the run game , even tho they lead the league in rushing yardage and rushing attempts per game .... aint gettin it done.

They are in the bottom third of the league in terms of average per attempt - 3.6 ypc if I recall correctly.

They really miss Briesel and Winston more than any of us wants to admit in that aspect .... tho I completely understand they had little choice because of the cap.

This is also the main reason I'd like to see (at least at this moment in time) them take an OL with a premium pick in the next draft.

ObsiWan
11-19-2012, 06:16 PM
Man.... I agree with everything you're saying, but...

Matt has plenty of opportunity to play like he did yesterday, but he don't. It seems like he waits until we're 14 points down before he "makes **** happen"

And in exactly how many games have we been 14 pts down this season??
Twice maybe...

He wasn't just sitting in a perfect pocket for that comeback. He didn't settle for throwing it out of bounds. He knew we needed a play & he didn't give up on any of them. He did what he had to do to give our guys time to get open. He didn't look like Ben Rothlisberger or RGIII, but he escaped pressure, he stepped up, he waited that extra second.


That was the O-line stepping up and doing a stellar job as much, if not more, than it was Schaub moving around and buying time. The O-line wasn't letting the Jags' pass rush get to the QB.

Scooter
11-19-2012, 07:06 PM
If people are going to knock on Schaub , I expect it to be for his warts .... which he surely has in lack of mobility and arm strength.

i'm starting to wonder if we're underestimating schaub's arm strength - myself included. nobody's comparing him to jamarcus russell, but he's been firing it all season. what brought it to my attention was reports that keenum had nowhere near the velocity on his throws as schaub, so i started watching more closely, and schaub seems to have as much zip as well as distance as almost anybody. the difference is he has better touch and accuracy, as some receivers have said "the most catchable ball they've seen" instead of rocketing through the receiver like favre. i think the underthrown deep balls in past seasons put it into our heads that he couldnt throw it that far, when more likely he underthrew on purpose to be on the safe side of a completion.

thunderkyss
11-19-2012, 07:23 PM
And sometimes you just take what the defense gives you.

If all he did was take what the defense gave him, then he doesn't deserve any cred for the win. We should thank the Jags for giving it to us.

Texan_Bill
11-19-2012, 07:29 PM
Expanded Answer: Johnson is flat out better than the guy's attempting to cover him , and Kubiak's route combinations are brilliant.

AJ tends to struggle against talented corners that are very talented and/or talented with comparable size (i.e. Revis - super talented, second i.e. Cromartie - gifted with comparable size).

On second thought, I'm not sure it's as much as "AJ struggles" as much as as it they do a good job against him.... and those guys are so far and few between.

Texan_Bill
11-19-2012, 07:36 PM
If all he did was take what the defense gave him, then he doesn't deserve any cred for the win. We should thank the Jags for giving it to us.



If all he did was take what the defense gave him, then he doesn't deserve any cred for the win. We should thank the Jags for giving it to us.

I had this response ready:

*Forgive me for not reading the entire exchange between Speedy and you, but on face value (and admittedly context is everything). That said, that's pretty much the most strawman argument and dumbest thing I've ever heard.... (or read). *

Before I posted this, I went back to get some perspective before I spoke out of turn... Let me ask this, how many times in this, thus far 9-1 season, have the Texans been down by 14? How many times were they last year with a 7-3 Schaub with the season being wrapped up by the rook???

thunderkyss
11-19-2012, 07:46 PM
I had this response ready:

*Forgive me for not reading the entire exchange between Speedy and you, but on face value (and admittedly context is everything). That said, that's pretty much the most strawman argument and dumbest thing I've ever heard.... (or read). *

Before I posted this, I went back to get some perspective before I spoke out of turn... Let me ask this, how many times in this, thus far 9-1 season, have the Texans been down by 14? How many times were they last year with a 7-3 Schaub with the season being wrapped up by the rook???

It's a reading comprehension thing. I don't think Matt "just took what the defense gave him" That's what he does on those games he doesn't have to throw for 572 yards (or whatever).

He played his but off yesterday. He didn't accept what the defense gave him. He took what we needed.

The Pencil Neck
11-19-2012, 08:56 PM
Here's what I think.

Schaub has matured to the point where he does whatever it takes to win. He's not worried about stats and rankings, he's worried about wins.

Prior to last season, it was pretty much on Schaub's shoulders and even then, our defense was so bad it would find new and excruciating ways to lose. Last year, Schaub started to realize what he had on the defense and that changed his approach.

NOW he's more sensitive to what the game requires. If it's a game where he can sit back and let the game come to him without having to take chances, he'll do that. If it's a game where he has to dink and dunk, he'll do that. If it's a game where he has to check down to running plays, he'll do that. But Sunday he showed that if it's a game where he's got to toss the ball all over the field to get it done, he can still do that.

As someone else mentioned, there are people on the board that think he's got a noodle arm. While I don't think he has a cannon, I think he can make all the throws. He's stronger than a lot of people think. Now... the interception in OT, that was because he was off balance as he threw. He had people crashing into him and he was trying to protect his legs at the same time he was throwing.

run-david-run
11-19-2012, 10:02 PM
Don't remember Schaub won a game for us. That was refreshing. But I'm still not buying into a QB w/ zero pocket-presence.

Schaub has been sacked 13 times in 10 games. You're seriously going to say he has no pocket presence to a fan base that watched David Carr for 5 years?

You don't know what you're talking about.

run-david-run
11-19-2012, 10:04 PM
Two games we won that season that I think apply:

1. Matt throws a TD pass to Andre with 1:13 left to tie the Redskins game. Texans subsquently win 30-27 on an OT FG by Rackers. The Texans trailed by 17 points late in the 3rd qtr., and 10 points at the beginning of the 4th qtr.

2. Texans trail the Chiefs by 10 points with 5 minutes left in the game, and score two TD's including an 11 yard TD pass to Andre with 1:54 left to win 35-31.

I heard someone call in on Koch and Kalu's show this morining and say in all seriousness that they thought yesterday was the first fourth quarter comeback Schaub ever led. He didn't say it in a derogatory fashion, he just passed it on as a fact he felt people should know. Jeez, some of our fans are stupid.

The Chiefs game was more like 20 seconds left on the Andre TD.

Let's not forget the epic drive against Miami a few years back when he ran it in on 4th down.

Hooston Texan
11-19-2012, 10:24 PM
I ought to bookmark this post for those people referenced above who think that Schaub can't lead his team to comebacks:

1. 2007 against Miami. Brings team back from 16-7 deficit. Drives the team from its own 3 to a last-second FG in the greatest game Kris Brown ever had.

2. 2008 at Jacksonville. Leads the team to a tying FG in a drive that began with less than 2:00 left. Texans lose the OT cointoss and never see the ball again.

3. 2008 against Miami (the year Miami rode the Wildcat to the playoffs). The QB draw for the win after leading a 90-yard drive in the last two minutes, featuring a great 4th down catch by Dre.

4. 2008 at Green Bay. Texans down by 1 heading into the fourth quarter, Schaub leads them back to the win. Another game-winning drive that started inside the Texans' five.

5. 2009 at Tennessee. Overcomes a 21-7 deficit and a ridiculous peformance by Chris Johnson (this was the game where we forgot to cover him when he split wide) to beat a team that was coming off a 13-3 record.

6. 2009 at Arizona. Brought team back from 21-0 deficit. But he threw a pick-6 at the end to lose the game. Still, he put the team on his back.

7. 2009 at Indy. Overcame 13-0 deficit to take a 17-13 lead. After Indy went back up, Schaub orchestrated a beautiful drive to set up Brown to tie the game. But Brown's downward spiral began here as his kick went wide.

8. 2009 v. New England. Brought Texans back from 2 TD deficit to win the game in the fourth quarter. Last game of the season, and the Texans put themselves in position for the playoffs, but they didn't get the help they needed in the late games.

9. 2010 at Washington. Rallies team from 27-10 for a stirring comeback win.

10. 2010 v. Kansas City. Overcomes a 10 point 4th quarter deficit and tosses game-winning TD with :11 left.

11. 2010 at Jacksonville. Erases 14 point deficit at half and then, after they fell behind again, he brought them back to a tie. Until the Texans pitiful D couldn't stop a Hail Mary.

12. 2010 at NY Jets. Rallies Texans back from 17 down against the Jets at their peak under Rex Ryan. Only to have the defense surrender an 80-yard TD drive with less than a minute to go to Mark Sanchez.

13. 2010 v. Baltimore. Sort of the 2008 Cardinal game redux. Erases a 21 point deficit in a frenzied comeback only to be undone by a pick-6. Still, he played about as well as he's ever played in throwing the Texans back into the ballgame.

14. Yesterday.

Just off the top of my head . . .

TheMatrix31
11-19-2012, 10:36 PM
Thanks for that.

ChampionTexan
11-19-2012, 10:38 PM
The Chiefs game was more like 20 seconds left on the Andre TD.

Let's not forget the epic drive against Miami a few years back when he ran it in on 4th down.

You're right - I stand corrected.

76Texan
11-19-2012, 10:51 PM
Thanks for that.

Ditto.

Nice work.

thunderkyss
11-20-2012, 04:09 AM
When Schaub threw that INT in overtime, did anyone else have flash-backs to that Baltimore game from 2010?

The Pencil Neck
11-20-2012, 09:22 AM
When Schaub threw that INT in overtime, did anyone else have flash-backs to that Baltimore game from 2010?

Yeah. I was not in a good space after that.

BigBull17
11-20-2012, 09:34 AM
BTW, Schaub also has the 14th highest total as well. Only guy with two games in said top 15.


1. Norm Van Brocklin+ 554
2. Warren Moon+ 527
Matt Schaub (31) 527
3. Boomer Esiason 522
4. Dan Marino+ 521
5. Matthew Stafford (23) 520
6. Tom Brady (34) 517
7. Phil Simms 513
8. Eli Manning (31) 510
Drew Brees (27) 510
9. Vince Ferragamo 509
10. Y.A. Tittle+ 505
11. Elvis Grbac 504
12. Ben Roethlisberger (27) 503
13. Jake Plummer 499
14. Matt Schaub (29) 497
15. Joe Namath+ 496

DocBar
11-20-2012, 09:46 AM
As far as the original thread line, I put Moon's performance a bit higher than Schaub's. Moon was playing in bad weather, against the top-rated pass D in the NFL that season and completely shredded them. He also would've broken the record if not for a bad call on a catch made by Haywood Jefferies.

76Texan
11-20-2012, 10:09 AM
As far as the original thread line, I put Moon's performance a bit higher than Schaub's. Moon was playing in bad weather, against the top-rated pass D in the NFL that season and completely shredded them. He also would've broken the record if not for a bad call on a catch made by Haywood Jefferies.

Also, the QBs were not treated like porcelain dolls back then. :mariopalm:

DocBar
11-20-2012, 10:17 AM
Also, the QBs were not treated like porcelain dolls back then. :mariopalm:And Moon didn't need an extra ~13 minutes...

Dread-Head
11-20-2012, 10:19 AM
Man .... Van Brocklin's record of 554 has stood since 1951 .... Thats amazing.


In defense of Mr. Warren Moon, Moon did it in FOUR quarters (Schaub did it in an overtime game) and Moon pulled off the throttle in that game against the Browns because he didn't want to break the record if it meant humiliating the other team. :tiphat:...yet another reason he's in the Hall of Fame

Dread-Head
11-20-2012, 10:20 AM
And Moon didn't need an extra ~13 minutes... :this:



Precisely what the Doctor said...

76Texan
11-20-2012, 10:23 AM
When Schaub threw that INT in overtime, did anyone else have flash-backs to that Baltimore game from 2010?

Yeah. I was not in a good space after that.It was a little dicey, but I never wavered; for some reason, I believed that we're gonna pull it out.

They sent the blitz and Schaub had to throw from his back foot, so I wasn't really mad at him. He saw the opportunity and took a shot downfield to AJ.

I really thought that the D would step up and they did.
For the little they did during the regular time, the pass rush came alive in OT.
I counted 7 pressures (or batted ball) on 11 pass plays.

On the last play, the 4-man pressure (against 7 in max protect) didn't quite get there, but Henne knew that he couldn't wait much longer. He didn't know that Watt would end up tumbling at his (Henne's) feet.

DocBar
11-20-2012, 10:23 AM
In defense of Mr. Warren Moon, Moon did it in FOUR quarters (Schaub did it in an overtime game) and Moon pulled off the throttle in that game against the Browns because he didn't want to break the record if it meant humiliating the other team. :tiphat:...yet another reason he's in the Hall of FameMoon is all class and was the perfect QB for the Oilers.

welsh texan
11-20-2012, 11:00 AM
I ought to bookmark this post for those people referenced above who think that Schaub can't lead his team to comebacks:


Unless I've got my maths wrong, the Texans are 8-6 in games that Schaub has won from behind according to you :thinking:

I'm a Schaub fan and I do see that he is capable of leading comeback drives and all, I'm not disputing that and your post wasn't aimed at me, but come on dude, 8-6 in the games you referenced, that isn't proving anyones point at all.

DocBar
11-20-2012, 11:20 AM
Unless I've got my maths wrong, the Texans are 8-6 in games that Schaub has won from behind according to you :thinking:

I'm a Schaub fan and I do see that he is capable of leading comeback drives and all, I'm not disputing that and your post wasn't aimed at me, but come on dude, 8-6 in the games you referenced, that isn't proving anyones point at all.8-6 in those games points directly to a horrible defense that got them into the come-from-behind scenario to start with. At least half of those 6 losses are directly attributable to the defense not being able to stop a good college team.

76Texan
11-20-2012, 11:22 AM
8-6 in those games points directly to a horrible defense that got them into the come-from-behind scenario to start with. At least half of those 6 losses are directly attributable to the defense not being able to stop a good college team.

I agree with DocBar here.

thunderkyss
11-20-2012, 11:30 AM
I really thought that the D would step up and they did.


So much for the Matt Schaub is great talk.

76Texan
11-20-2012, 11:38 AM
So much for the Matt Schaub is great talk.

Hey, it takes two to tango :)

76Texan
11-20-2012, 11:42 AM
Like I told my wife about the conspiracy theory. In so many words, I told her "you just watch, they will go to OT and the better team will win."

And we were better on both sides of the ball in OT.
That's our true color there.

infantrycak
11-20-2012, 12:27 PM
8-6 in those games points directly to a horrible defense that got them into the come-from-behind scenario to start with. At least half of those 6 losses are directly attributable to the defense not being able to stop a good college team.

I'll third this post. Without looking back at the list, giving up last second TD's to the Jags and Jets cannot by put on the QB. Shift those over and you have 10-4.

dalemurphy
11-20-2012, 12:42 PM
I'm not sure what it would take to satisfy some fans. With a mediocre defense and no running game (2009), he threw for almost 5000 yards and a 9-7 record...

With a good defense, his record is 16-4 and 13-1 in his last 14 games... not to mention a QB rating of 100.

There's plenty to love about the guy. Maybe we could stop blaming him for not being Tom Brady. Maybe?

beerlover
11-20-2012, 12:46 PM
Texans have been vindicated by extending Schuab this past off season. IMO :barman:

76Texan
11-20-2012, 01:03 PM
I'm not sure what it would take to satisfy some fans. With a mediocre defense and no running game (2009), he threw for almost 5000 yards and a 9-7 record...

With a good defense, his record is 16-4 and 13-1 in his last 14 games... not to mention a QB rating of 100.

There's plenty to love about the guy. Maybe we could stop blaming him for not being Tom Brady. Maybe?

Texans have been vindicated by extending Schuab this past off season. IMO :barman:

True.

On the other hand , fans are made to grope, I mean gripe.

(The keyboard on these phones are really small, sometimes you can type the daarnest thing, LOL)

thunderkyss
11-20-2012, 01:05 PM
I'm not sure what it would take to satisfy some fans. With a mediocre defense and no running game (2009), he threw for almost 5000 yards and a 9-7 record...


For me, I've said it before, I want him to play like he did in 2009. Not that I need him to throw for 5000 yards, or take any unnecessary chances. But he played at another level.... I would say a Tom Brady/Drew Brees/Peyton Manning level. We won a lot of games in 2009, because of him. I'd love to win games today because of Matt & Arian & Andre & the defense, not just on whichever one happens to be hot that day. They should all be "hot" at the same time as often as possible. That's when we are at our best.

Now we got a defense & a run game, he doesn't have to be that guy. I get it. But we're a better team when he is that guy.

steelbtexan
11-20-2012, 01:11 PM
Strangely, being the Kubiak disser I normally am, I don't feel a need to get on him today. Yeah, the defense laid a big turd today, but that's more on Wade than Kubiak. We all know the story there. Kubiak's offense saved our asses today.

^^^^
This

But I wish Gary had stayed with the passing game after the first drive. It was working and he had a hot QB. If he would've done this then the game probably wouldn't have been as close.

Choosing to impose Garys will on the Jags for two and a half qtrs almost cost the Texans this game. But Schaub and the defensive stand bailed the Texans out in OT. IMHO

76Texan
11-20-2012, 01:12 PM
For me, I've said it before, I want him to play like he did in 2009. Not that I need him to throw for 5000 yards, or take any unnecessary chances. But he played at another level.... I would say a Tom Brady/Drew Brees/Peyton Manning level. We won a lot of games in 2009, because of him. I'd love to win games today because of Matt & Arian & Andre & the defense, not just on whichever one happens to be hot that day. They should all be "hot" at the same time as often as possible. That's when we are at our best.

Now we got a defense & a run game, he doesn't have to be that guy. I get it. But we're a better team when he is that guy.

I like him better this way. You don't need to be a gunslinger when you have a good defense. Just play solid percentage football and win.

steelbtexan
11-20-2012, 01:15 PM
For me, I've said it before, I want him to play like he did in 2009. Not that I need him to throw for 5000 yards, or take any unnecessary chances. But he played at another level.... I would say a Tom Brady/Drew Brees/Peyton Manning level. We won a lot of games in 2009, because of him. I'd love to win games today because of Matt & Arian & Andre & the defense, not just on whichever one happens to be hot that day. They should all be "hot" at the same time as often as possible. That's when we are at our best.

Now we got a defense & a run game, he doesn't have to be that guy. I get it. But we're a better team when he is that guy.

Agreed,

Shaub has the ability to be an elite QB. Gary just needs to take the chains off of him.

76Texan
11-20-2012, 01:16 PM
^^^^
This

But I wish Gary had stayed with the passing game after the first drive. It was working and he had a hot QB. If he would've done this then the game probably wouldn't have been as close.

Choosing to impose Garys will on the Jags for two and a half qtrs almost cost the Texans this game. But Schaub and the defensive stand bailed the Texans out in OT. IMHO

Haha, as much as I would love for Kubiak to make GP happy by scoring 21 points in the first qtr, I think Kubiak always script his plays early in the game to gauge the tendency of the defense. It's been working, why change it?

76Texan
11-20-2012, 01:23 PM
Agreed,

Shaub has the ability to be an elite QB. Gary just needs to take the chains off of him.

I'm pretty sure if you ask Schaub, he likes it the way it is.

It's better to work both the running game and the passing game.

The running game, especially the stretch play, makes the d-line work hard because they have to run left and then right. And then they have to worry about the cut block.

The more tired they get, the worse they will perform late in the game.
Even if the running game doesn't work well, those guys will be huffing and puffing, which in turn render them less effective in their pass rush.

ChampionTexan
11-20-2012, 01:26 PM
Now we got a defense & a run game, he doesn't have to be that guy. I get it. But we're a better team when he is that guy.

We're the best team when he doesn't have to be that guy, and that in my opinion is what we should strive for.

It's clear that the philosophy of Kubiak and this coaching staff is to play tough defense, run the ball down their throat, gain control of the game, and try to play from ahead - controlling the ball as much as you can.

Asking Matt to be Super Man flies in the face of that philosophy, and with Matt sporting a 13-1 record under that philosophy, I say wait until you need him to be that guy before you ask him to be that guy.

thunderkyss
11-20-2012, 01:31 PM
Agreed,

Shaub has the ability to be an elite QB. Gary just needs to take the chains off of him.

Why blame Gary? I think it's on Matt. Balls in his hands on 3rd & long. Don't take what the defense gives you, take it.

That don't mean to force anything. That doesn't mean to take any chances. That means do what he did Sunday when we were down by 14. Make a play, move the chains.

thunderkyss
11-20-2012, 01:37 PM
Asking Matt to be Super Man flies in the face of that philosophy, and with Matt sporting a 13-1 record under that philosophy, I say wait until you need him to be that guy before you ask him to be that guy.

Was he super man Sunday? Was he Super Man in 2009? I don't think so, he just refused to lose, on every play. He played with a sense of urgency, we need that 1st down, we need that touchdown.... we need to move the chains.

I just want him to play with that urgency all the time. Play at that level, all the time.

We ran the ball Sunday. We never abandoned the run. We had Schaub playing at a high level, we had Andre playing at a high level, we had Arian playing at a high level, OD, Graham.. high level. Leaving everything on the field. Doing what it takes to move the chains, to stay on the field, to beat the defense.

dalemurphy
11-20-2012, 02:14 PM
Was he super man Sunday? Was he Super Man in 2009? I don't think so, he just refused to lose, on every play. He played with a sense of urgency, we need that 1st down, we need that touchdown.... we need to move the chains.

I just want him to play with that urgency all the time. Play at that level, all the time.

We ran the ball Sunday. We never abandoned the run. We had Schaub playing at a high level, we had Andre playing at a high level, we had Arian playing at a high level, OD, Graham.. high level. Leaving everything on the field. Doing what it takes to move the chains, to stay on the field, to beat the defense.

We threw the ball 55 times on Sunday! In 2009, we had no running game. We have one now. Balanced is good. We can beat Chicago in a rainstorm. Or, we can score 43 points when our defense has an off day by throwing the ball all over the yard. Realize the more times Schaub drops back, the more hits he will take.... not to mention that play action pass is our bread and butter, and it is much more effective when the defense believes we will run it.

76Texan
11-20-2012, 02:45 PM
We threw the ball 55 times on Sunday! In 2009, we had no running game. We have one now. Balanced is good. We can beat Chicago in a rainstorm. Or, we can score 43 points when our defense has an off day by throwing the ball all over the yard. Realize the more times Schaub drops back, the more hits he will take.... not to mention that play action pass is our bread and butter, and it is much more effective when the defense believes we will run it.

I think I understand where the Fid comes from.
Them offense with Peyton and Brady (and even Rodgers) rely more on the spread.

It runs through the QB and practice makes perfect.

But look at the leader board; which team has the best winning record with a certain QB at the helm the last two years?

One can even count back the year for Peyton.

ObsiWan
11-20-2012, 02:49 PM
I ought to bookmark this post for those people referenced above who think that Schaub can't lead his team to comebacks:

1. 2007 against Miami. Brings team back from 16-7 deficit. Drives the team from its own 3 to a last-second FG in the greatest game Kris Brown ever had....

Just off the top of my head . . .

Thanks for the research.
Repped.

thunderkyss
11-20-2012, 03:29 PM
We threw the ball 55 times on Sunday! In 2009, we had no running game. We have one now. Balanced is good. We can beat Chicago in a rainstorm. Or, we can score 43 points when our defense has an off day by throwing the ball all over the yard. Realize the more times Schaub drops back, the more hits he will take.... not to mention that play action pass is our bread and butter, and it is much more effective when the defense believes we will run it.

I'm not saying we have to throw it 50 times, or be anything other than the balanced team that we are. I'm saying on 3rd & whatever, I want to see Matt play like he did Sunday, with the attitude that we have to pick up that third down, I want him to start every drive thinking we will score & anything less is failure.

Just like he did Sunday, doesn't mean that he has to force anything or be any less cautious. It just means not settling or putting the ball in the defense's hands.

I want him to play with that, "We're down by 14" attitude all the time.

To me, it's just like the "effort" some of us don't see in Mario Williams on every down. I'm not seeing that effort from Schaub. I don't want him to play outside himself, I just want him to play like he did Sunday, like he did in 2009. It was another level type of playing, it was a competitive, winning, leader-type level.

Arian is going to give us 110% every play. So is Duane Brown. I've said it before & I'll say it again, to me, Matt gives up on plays too early. If we weren't down by 14, he'd have settled for a field goal, or a punt.

We don't run the score up on other teams, I think, because of that. Not because Gary gets conservative. But because our field general says, "Ah... let the night crew handle it."

76Texan
11-20-2012, 03:34 PM
I'm not saying we have to throw it 50 times, or be anything other than the balanced team that we are. I'm saying on 3rd & whatever, I want to see Matt play like he did Sunday, with the attitude that we have to pick up that third down, I want him to start every drive thinking we will score & anything less is failure.

Just like he did Sunday, doesn't mean that he has to force anything or be any less cautious. It just means not settling or putting the ball in the defense's hands.

I want him to play with that, "We're down by 14" attitude all the time.

To me, it's just like the "effort" some of us don't see in Mario Williams on every down. I'm not seeing that effort from Schaub. I don't want him to play outside himself, I just want him to play like he did Sunday, like he did in 2009. It was another level type of playing, it was a competitive, winning, leader-type level.

Arian is going to give us 110% every play. So is Duane Brown. I've said it before & I'll say it again, to me, Matt gives up on plays too early. If we weren't down by 14, he'd have settled for a field goal, or a punt.

We don't run the score up on other teams, I think, because of that. Not because Gary gets conservative. But because our field general says, "Ah... let the night crew handle it."
I would think it's Kubiak's call.

Minimize the risk of turnover and we can win every game.

That's why we had to let Jacoby and Holliday go even though they are both electric returners.

Corrosion
11-20-2012, 03:41 PM
That's why we had to let Jacoby and Holliday go even though they are both electric returners.

Both were just too mistake prone .... But I really believe the decision with Jacoby was more about cap room than anything else because despite his problems , I know Kubiak really liked Jacoby Jones.

76Texan
11-20-2012, 03:45 PM
Both were just too mistake prone .... But I really believe the decision with Jacoby was more about cap room than anything else because despite his problems , I know Kubiak really liked Jacoby Jones.

It may very well be true, but you don't cut a playmaker because you worry about the cap space. Those guys are protected by the 20% rule.

Corrosion
11-20-2012, 05:43 PM
I want him to play with that, "We're down by 14" attitude all the time.



Sounds to me like you want another guy drafted and traded by Atlanta .... That guy has the most TD passes and the .... most INT's in NFL history.
Brett Favre .... Dude had the gunslinger attitude all the time.

Im content with Schaub and Kubiak allowing the score to dictate when to take chances and when not to assume unnecessary risk.

417Texan
11-20-2012, 05:59 PM
Schaub is a elite qb this year and without him Texans are not a playoff team.

thunderkyss
11-20-2012, 06:04 PM
I would think it's Kubiak's call.

Minimize the risk of turnover and we can win every game.

That's why we had to let Jacoby and Holliday go even though they are both electric returners.

Kubiak shouldn't have a say in it. I'm not asking for plays to be called differently, I'm not asking for Matt to take any more chances than he did Sunday.

Y'all are saying he isn't Brees, or Rogers.. Sunday, he looked just as good as any of the elites to me. He was put in do or die situations for most of the game & he did.

He did what he had to do, to get us a TD when we needed it, to get us a first down when we needed it.

He didn't take what the defense gave him, he dictated what we were going to do.

He played like an All-Pro yesterday, not a game manager, not a "good enough" QB. He played like the guy we need him to be to take us to Super Bowl, & not the guy who won't get in our way.

76Texan
11-20-2012, 06:13 PM
Kubiak shouldn't have a say in it. I'm not asking for plays to be called differently, I'm not asking for Matt to take any more chances than he did Sunday.

Y'all are saying he isn't Brees, or Rogers.. Sunday, he looked just as good as any of the elites to me. He was put in do or die situations for most of the game & he did.

He did what he had to do, to get us a TD when we needed it, to get us a first down when we needed it.

He didn't take what the defense gave him, he dictated what we were going to do.

He played like an All-Pro yesterday, not a game manager, not a "good enough" QB. He played like the guy we need him to be to take us to Super Bowl, & not the guy who won't get in our way.

Still a concerted agreement between HC/OC and the QB

dalemurphy
11-20-2012, 06:35 PM
Kubiak shouldn't have a say in it. I'm not asking for plays to be called differently, I'm not asking for Matt to take any more chances than he did Sunday.

Y'all are saying he isn't Brees, or Rogers.. Sunday, he looked just as good as any of the elites to me. He was put in do or die situations for most of the game & he did.

He did what he had to do, to get us a TD when we needed it, to get us a first down when we needed it.

He didn't take what the defense gave him, he dictated what we were going to do.

He played like an All-Pro yesterday, not a game manager, not a "good enough" QB. He played like the guy we need him to be to take us to Super Bowl, & not the guy who won't get in our way.


Jacksonville has a horrible defense, particularly against the pass. They decided to sell out against the run. The Texans took exactly what the defense gave them. The defense played soft to avoid the big play and left the middle open. The Texan TEs at up the middle of the field and AJ had a field day driving underneath on the edge. This is about Kubiak. Schaub's job is to execute the game plan. He does that. Often, the game plan is to protect the ball at all costs... or, to hand off 10 times in a row to set up a deep pass via play action. The Texans are not designed to be, nor do they want to be a QB-centric offense. I would find peace with that... or, you will continue to be frustrated as the Texans continue to win with regularity.

thunderkyss
11-20-2012, 06:51 PM
I'm not going to say any more on the matter. You all will never understand the criticism Matt Schaub gets. & I'll never understand settling.

Matt Schaub has what it takes to be elite. We've seen it. If y'all don't see the difference between the way he played Sunday compared to the way he played every other game this year (beyond the play calls & the formations), then I don't know what to say.

He's a pro-bowl alternate, that's the way he normally plays. Sunday, he was a front runner, a favorite, 1st team all-pro. Better than Manning, better than Brady.

Corrosion
11-20-2012, 06:59 PM
I'm not going to say any more on the matter. You all will never understand the criticism Matt Schaub gets. & I'll never understand settling.

Matt Schaub has what it takes to be elite. We've seen it. If y'all don't see the difference between the way he played Sunday compared to the way he played every other game this year (beyond the play calls & the formations), then I don't know what to say.

He's a pro-bowl alternate, that's the way he normally plays. Sunday, he was a front runner, a favorite, 1st team all-pro. Better than Manning, better than Brady.

I get that he has that ability and you want him to exert that ability more often .... I also see understand that football is a game of circumstances.

Its more about when you take your shots than how many ... that affect the Win column.

DexmanC
11-20-2012, 07:00 PM
I'm not going to say any more on the matter. You all will never understand the criticism Matt Schaub gets. & I'll never understand settling.

Matt Schaub has what it takes to be elite. We've seen it. If y'all don't see the difference between the way he played Sunday compared to the way he played every other game this year (beyond the play calls & the formations), then I don't know what to say.

He's a pro-bowl alternate, that's the way he normally plays. Sunday, he was a front runner, a favorite, 1st team all-pro. Better than Manning, better than Brady.

I get what you're saying. Schaub seems not to play with that fire-breathing sense
of urgency on every snap that you see out of Manning, Brady, Roethlisburger, or
Brees. He has the same command of THIS offense as those guys have of their
respective offenses, but he does not play with that urgency unless the team is down
a couple of scores.

It frustrates me just the same, and as the season goes on, I think he'll start
to assert himself more. Our defense is good, but it can't afford have the offense
continue to expose it by not converting 3rd downs.

infantrycak
11-20-2012, 07:20 PM
If y'all don't see the difference between the way he played Sunday compared to the way he played every other game this year (beyond the play calls & the formations), then I don't know what to say.

Well I for one haven't seen it.

Plus I will take the word of AJ who said Schaub came into training camp and has played throughout this season with a renewed and enhanced determination which is readily felt in the huddle. 4-5 of his teammates including Arian, Meyers and Duane Brown all agreed with him.

I get what you're saying. Schaub seems not to play with that fire-breathing sense of urgency on every snap that you see out of Manning, Brady, Roethlisburger, or Brees. He has the same command of THIS offense as those guys have of their respective offenses, but he does not play with that urgency unless the team is down a couple of scores.

610 am was just discussing this and I agree with them, the gist of which was you are drawing an incorrect conclusion from not seeing what you deem correct or typical. Schaub doesn't scream and yell as much as many QB's. That does not mean he is less intense, less determined or less in command of the team.