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HOU-TEX
11-14-2012, 01:36 PM
Good grief!

Adam Schefter‏@AdamSchefter

NFL fined Texans LB Tim Dobbins $30,000 for hitting Jay Cutler - even though Dobbins claimed Cutler ran into him.

Thorn
11-14-2012, 01:38 PM
Whether you like it or not, you had to know this was coming.

HOU-TEX
11-14-2012, 01:41 PM
Whether you like it or not, you had to know this was coming.

Yeah, which is why I never really had much to say about it. I, honestly, wasn't sure if it was legal or not. I kinda figured he'd be fined either way.

30K's probably a good chunk of cabbage for him.

Titans Sux 72
11-14-2012, 01:41 PM
For a guy like Dobbins that's a lota cheddar yo.

Dutchrudder
11-14-2012, 01:42 PM
Adam Schefter‏@AdamSchefter

NFL fined Texans LB Tim Dobbins $30,000 for hitting Jay Cutler - even though Dobbins claimed Cutler ran into him.

Had to go watch it again, I don't see it at all: http://youtu.be/bVv6VYKRIUQ?t=1h2m58s

No suspension though, so it's all good. Teach him a lesson about going high on a QB.

Say Watt
11-14-2012, 01:44 PM
This is getting out of control.

Did anyone ever determine what the rule is for a QB once he is past the LOS? I thought if he was past the LOS and was not sliding that he could be treated like any other player.

It is almost to the point that the QB just needs to run the ball every damn time because if he gets hit, it will be a flag on the defense. Just put flags on the weenies already.

The Pencil Neck
11-14-2012, 01:49 PM
This is getting out of control.

Did anyone ever determine what the rule is for a QB once he is past the LOS? I thought if he was past the LOS and was not sliding that he could be treated like any other player.

It is almost to the point that the QB just needs to run the ball every damn time because if he gets hit, it will be a flag on the defense. Just put flags on the weenies already.

The rule states that a QB is a QB if he's throwing a pass (even an illegal pass) and you can't hit him high. By rule, Dobbins committed a foul.

76Texan
11-14-2012, 01:51 PM
Dang, that's a little stiff for him, I think.

On the bright side, he doesn't get suspended.

BIG TORO
11-14-2012, 01:52 PM
That's about double what I was thinking!

gwallaia
11-14-2012, 01:53 PM
When a player is fined, where does the money go?

ChampionTexan
11-14-2012, 01:53 PM
Well, since I wouldn't have been shocked to see him suspended for a game (ala Joe Mays), I'm happy for the Texans sake - and the sake of the fans - that it's only a fine.

I know it's more significant for a guy like Dobbins than some players, and that's too bad, but at least he's not losing a game check on top of the fine.

Exascor
11-14-2012, 01:54 PM
When a player is fined, where does the money go?Pretty sure it's an NFL charity.

ChampionTexan
11-14-2012, 01:54 PM
When a player is fined, where does the money go?

A charity designated by the NFL.

gwallaia
11-14-2012, 01:57 PM
A charity designated by the NFL.

See, that could be dangerous. Players think, "Hell, might as well whack this QB and help out a charity."

HOU-TEX
11-14-2012, 01:58 PM
See, that could be dangerous. Players think, "Hell, might as well whack this QB and help out a charity."

I wonder if they can write it off as well?

Say Watt
11-14-2012, 01:59 PM
The rule states that a QB is a QB if he's throwing a pass (even an illegal pass) and you can't hit him high. By rule, Dobbins committed a foul.

That is an absolutely ludicrous rule then. Rep to you though for clarifying.

A QB could then just start running, get past the LOS, still act like he is going to pass, and suddenly the defense can't tackle him like they would anyone else. This could be a huge advantage, if they were to ever utilize it, for guys like Vick, Newton, and others that can start running, freeze a defense with a fake pass forcing the defender to go low, and then juke out of the way and off he goes. This is all part of the game when the QB is behind the LOS, but it is asinine to allow it past the LOS.

ChampionTexan
11-14-2012, 02:00 PM
See, that could be dangerous. Players think, "Hell, might as well whack this QB and help out a charity."

So your saying if the NFL (meaning the Owners) were to be the party to financially benefit from the fine that it would improve things?

Dutchrudder
11-14-2012, 02:00 PM
See, that could be dangerous. Players think, "Hell, might as well whack this QB and help out a charity."

I hope this image comes to mind if they are thinking that before laying out a QB:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Y97dr_ileq4/UHh32fdFc4I/AAAAAAAARfs/Pa_iQZErgz0/s1600/think-of-the-children.jpg

gtexan02
11-14-2012, 02:01 PM
He went high at Cutler on purpose. Maybe that played into the fine.

Heres what he said:

“I felt like [the hit] was on time,” said Dobbins.

He wasn’t sure if it was his blow or one delivered by Jackson at the end of a Cutler scramble on the very next play that ultimately meant Jason Campbell would play the second half.

“I have no idea, I have no clue,” he said, before touching on the increasingly taboo topic of knocking a player from the game. “But it was good that he was out, though. I mean you always want to take the quarterback out of the game. I hit him in his chest. I did not hit him in his head. Nowhere near it. I did not touch his helmet.”

Typically Dobbins said he would look to hit a quarterback hip-high, but as Cutler was still trying to make a play, he felt going higher gave him more of a chance to “mess up the throw as well.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/66605/texans-silence-chicago-this-chicago-that

The Pencil Neck
11-14-2012, 02:02 PM
That is an absolutely ludicrous rule then. Rep to you though for clarifying.

A QB could then just start running, get past the LOS, still act like he is going to pass, and suddenly the defense can't tackle him like they would anyone else. This could be a huge advantage, if they were to ever utilize it, for guys like Vick, Newton, and others that can start running, freeze a defense with a fake pass forcing the defender to go low, and then juke out of the way and off he goes. This is all part of the game when the QB is behind the LOS, but it is asinine to allow it past the LOS.

Just don't tackle him high or low.

And don't rep me, rep Champion Texan. He's the one who did the research and posted the actual text from the rulebook.

Scooter
11-14-2012, 02:04 PM
bit steep in my opinion, cutler should pay half of it. head hunting a quarterback in the pocket is one thing, but when he's moving forward outside of the pocket in what could easily be a running situation, all bets should be off. if dobbins had lowered his head and used the crown as a weapon, or left his feet to launch into cutler - sure, 30k. as is, this should've topped out at 15k.

ChampionTexan
11-14-2012, 02:04 PM
He went high at Cutler on purpose. Maybe that played into the fine.

Heres what he said:



http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/66605/texans-silence-chicago-this-chicago-that

Not that it really matters rules wise, but this also clarifies that Dobbins viewed Cutler as a passer as opposed to a runner (and if you look at the replay, it's crystal clear that Cutler was stepping up in the pocket and never displayed any intent to run).

Cjeremy635
11-14-2012, 02:08 PM
Not that it really matters rules wise, but this also clarifies that Dobbins viewed Cutler as a passer as opposed to a runner (and if you look at the replay, it's crystal clear that Cutler was stepping up in the pocket and never displayed any intent to run).

BS. Cutler was running. He threw at the last second before he got smacked. Since when is the pocket at/over the LOS anyways? I didn't even see a pocket anymore, it had collapsed and he had scrambled out of there. If Dobbins wouldn't have been coming for his grill, Jay would have kept running. The guy scrambles. He ran again a play or 2 later. The only debate is which one caused the concussion.

gwallaia
11-14-2012, 02:09 PM
So your saying if the NFL (meaning the Owners) were to be the party to financially benefit from the fine that it would improve things?

Fine them and have the amount count against the salary cap for the team?

At least Dobbins can feel good that some charity will benefit from his hit on Cutler.

ChampionTexan
11-14-2012, 02:10 PM
BS. Cutler was running. He threw at the last second before he got smacked. Since when is the pocket at/over the LOS anyways? I didn't even see a pocket anymore, it had collapsed and he had scrambled out of there. If Dobbins wouldn't have been coming for his grill, Jay would have kept running. The guy scrambles. He ran again a play or 2 later. The only debate is which one caused the concussion.

I"m sorry, I'm looking at this video
LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMRgX81eqe4)
And I don't believe he for one second contemplated running that football.

Say Watt
11-14-2012, 02:13 PM
Just don't tackle him high or low.

And don't rep me, rep Champion Texan. He's the one who did the research and posted the actual text from the rulebook.

I have now repped him as well.

I don't agree though. It isn't as simple as don't tackle high or low. Guys are moving so fast on a football field that we have to at least have some semblance of consistency. If you can hit high past the LOS, then it shouldn't matter if it is a QB or not. That should not even factor into it. A slide is designated specifically for a QB. This is done to protect the QB. Now they want to throw a new wrinkle into that says, "Oh yeah even though you can hit any other player past the LOS up high, well sorry you can't do that to a QB even though he is essentially a RB at that point."

It's a BS rule, and I would feel the same way if it was Schaub. This isn't the same as a QB back in the pocket where the defender knows the QB is trying to pass the ball.

Cjeremy635
11-14-2012, 02:13 PM
I"m sorry, I'm looking at this video
LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMRgX81eqe4)
And I don't believe he for one second contemplated running that football.

Well....watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVv6VYKRIUQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1h2m58s) one instead and tell me where the pocket it?

ChampionTexan
11-14-2012, 02:13 PM
Fine them and have the amount count against the salary cap for the team?

At least Dobbins can feel good that some charity will benefit from his hit on Cutler.

The cash has to go somewhere - who's pocket does it end up in under your proposal?

JCTexan
11-14-2012, 02:14 PM
That is an absolutely ludicrous rule then. Rep to you though for clarifying.

A QB could then just start running, get past the LOS, still act like he is going to pass, and suddenly the defense can't tackle him like they would anyone else. This could be a huge advantage, if they were to ever utilize it, for guys like Vick, Newton, and others that can start running, freeze a defense with a fake pass forcing the defender to go low, and then juke out of the way and off he goes. This is all part of the game when the QB is behind the LOS, but it is asinine to allow it past the LOS.

I think the Dobbins play proved that there is no advantage to doing this for the QB. Cutler got passed the LOS, got lit-up, got a concussion out of it; and the result of the play? Offsetting penalties. Definitely not worth the concussion.

infantrycak
11-14-2012, 02:14 PM
This is getting out of control.

Did anyone ever determine what the rule is for a QB once he is past the LOS? I thought if he was past the LOS and was not sliding that he could be treated like any other player.

It is almost to the point that the QB just needs to run the ball every damn time because if he gets hit, it will be a flag on the defense. Just put flags on the weenies already.

The rule states that a QB is a QB if he's throwing a pass (even an illegal pass) and you can't hit him high. By rule, Dobbins committed a foul.

To clarify a little bit more, there are two rules in play here. One says being beyond the LOS doesn't change the other rules. The other is any player not just a QB is a defenseless player when in the act of throwing or immediately afterward.

Say Watt
11-14-2012, 02:15 PM
I"m sorry, I'm looking at this video
LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMRgX81eqe4)
And I don't believe he for one second contemplated running that football.

I'm astonished sometimes at what different people see. Sure, he was still attempting to throw the ball, but so does almost every damn QB in these situations. It doesn't mean he doesn't still have the option of tucking and running it, and that was what Dobbins had to be certain did not happen.

Exascor
11-14-2012, 02:16 PM
IMO he was fined so much because of his comments after the game. Sometimes it's better to just say you didn't intend to hurt him and hope he's OK.

GlassHalfFull
11-14-2012, 02:17 PM
IMO he was fined because too many qbs went out with concussions this weekend. Knee jerk reaction from the NFL

gtexan02
11-14-2012, 02:18 PM
IMO he was fined so much because of his comments after the game. Sometimes it's better to just say you didn't intend to hurt him and hope he's OK.

Yup. Saying:

“But it was good that he was out, though. I mean you always want to take the quarterback out of the game.

After your hit gives the QB a concussion is asking for a fine

gwallaia
11-14-2012, 02:18 PM
The cash has to go somewhere - who's pocket does it end up in under your proposal?

It would go to The Human Fund.
http://www.80stees.com/products/Human-Fund-Seinfeld-T-shirt.asp?utm_source=goog-merch&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=SEIN012&gclid=CKKp4eOjz7MCFSWoPAodUUkA4Q

Say Watt
11-14-2012, 02:19 PM
To clarify a little bit more, there are two rules in play here. One says being beyond the LOS doesn't change the other rules. The other is any player not just a QB is a defenseless player when in the act of throwing or immediately afterward.

That is a little better, but I still have to wonder what stops the QB from being 10 yards down the field, act like he is going to throw the ball right before he gets hit, and suddenly it's a penalty? Sure, it is fairly unlikely he would do this, but it has to be settled. It either is or isn't illegal to throw the ball past the LOS. If it is illegal, then any QB past the LOS should be treated just like any other player unless he is in the act of sliding.

There would not even be a discussion here if Cutler had been behind the LOS. But he wasn't. He was in the open field and even though he was still acting like he might pass, he could break away running at any moment. I think the call was BS, and the fine is BS.

ChampionTexan
11-14-2012, 02:20 PM
Well....watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVv6VYKRIUQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1h2m58s) one instead and tell me where the pocket it?

Being out of the pocket negates the low hit rule - not much else.

Cak's post actually addressed this point better than I just did.

The Pencil Neck
11-14-2012, 02:25 PM
That is a little better, but I still have to wonder what stops the QB from being 10 yards down the field, act like he is going to throw the ball right before he gets hit, and suddenly it's a penalty? Sure, it is fairly unlikely he would do this, but it has to be settled. It either is or isn't illegal to throw the ball past the LOS. If it is illegal, then any QB past the LOS should be treated just like any other player unless he is in the act of sliding.

Hey, I've seen QBs WAY past the line of scrimmage still hold up the ball faking like they're going to throw it to get people to hold up.

But, ultimately, there is what the rule is and there is what the rule "should" be.

Personally, I'm with you. If a guy is past the line of scrimmage, then he's a runner and can be hit helmet to helmet. Shouldn't matter if he's a QB who's just thrown a pass or not.

But that's not what the rule is. And you've got to play by the rules or accept the fines and penalties associated with breaking them. Dobbins broke that rule and was penalized.

Now it's time to petition the league to change the rule if we feel that strongly about it or to just move on with a better understanding of the rules for the future.

Cjeremy635
11-14-2012, 02:40 PM
Being out of the pocket negates the low hit rule - not much else.

Cak's post actually addressed this point better than I just did.

I wasn't disputing the fact that he knocked him in the jaw with his helmet, that's illegal. I was just disagreeing with your statement which was:

Not that it really matters rules wise, but this also clarifies that Dobbins viewed Cutler as a passer as opposed to a runner (and if you look at the replay, it's crystal clear that Cutler was stepping up in the pocket and never displayed any intent to run).

I know you are familiar with what a "pocket" is. Cutler was nowhere in/near a pocket. The guy was wide open, getting ready to run down the field if Dobbins wasn't bearing down on him. He took a risk and threw the ball at the last second. Was it gutsy, or was is stupid? Guess it depends on the outcome of the play. With this outcome, it looks like a dumb move.

Also, I don't agree with Dobbins' comments after the game. Guy should have more class than that. Even "if" his intent was to knock him out of the game, and "if" that's something that the defense celebrates amongst themselves, then that is something that should be kept to himself. Statements like that only bring retaliation from other players and Schaub has had his fair share of questionable hits.

badboy
11-14-2012, 02:48 PM
That is an absolutely ludicrous rule then. Rep to you though for clarifying.

A QB could then just start running, get past the LOS, still act like he is going to pass, and suddenly the defense can't tackle him like they would anyone else. This could be a huge advantage, if they were to ever utilize it, for guys like Vick, Newton, and others that can start running, freeze a defense with a fake pass forcing the defender to go low, and then juke out of the way and off he goes. This is all part of the game when the QB is behind the LOS, but it is asinine to allow it past the LOS.I think that is what you are confusing. QBs out of the box or past the LOS canbe tackled like any other player; just no head shot & that goes for any player not just QBs. NFL has got to reduce head injuries and all the law suits are a result of NFL ignoring concussions.

Does Dobbins have any historical incidents that might have increased this amount from$15k?

infantrycak
11-14-2012, 03:05 PM
I think that is what you are confusing. QBs out of the box or past the LOS canbe tackled like any other player; just no head shot & that goes for any player not just QBs. NFL has got to reduce head injuries and all the law suits are a result of NFL ignoring concussions.

Does Dobbins have any historical incidents that might have increased this amount from$15k?

People, the rules have been provided repeatedly in the this thread and the Hit on Cutler thread. There is nothing QB related here. Any player in the act of throwing the ball or immediately afterward is a defenseless player. It is not illegal to have helmet to helmet contact ordinarily, i.e. non-defenseless players. That's why there is a special rule about it for defenseless players.

TheIronDuke
11-14-2012, 03:12 PM
Also, I don't agree with Dobbins' comments after the game. Guy should have more class than that. Even "if" his intent was to knock him out of the game, and "if" that's something that the defense celebrates amongst themselves, then that is something that should be kept to himself. Statements like that only bring retaliation from other players and Schaub has had his fair share of questionable hits.

This is the part that worries me, especially with his division-mate jack-hole Jared Allen coming to town in a few weeks.

CloakNNNdagger
11-14-2012, 03:46 PM
For those of you interested in where the fine money has gone in the past and the present:


Where does the fine money go? - USATODAY.com (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2010-10-29-1108672472_x.htm)

Where Does the Money Go When an NFL Player or Coach is Fined? (http://www.sportsgeekery.com/14272/where-does-the-money-go-when-an-nfl-player-or-coach-is-fined/)

buddyboy
11-14-2012, 03:55 PM
The ball was out of his hands before Dobbins launched (and he did launch), plus there was helmet to helmet contact. I don't think there's a shadow of doubt that what he did was fineable, and, in my opinion, worthy of a suspension (which, thankfully, he did not get).

Wolf6151
11-14-2012, 06:58 PM
Surely this doesn't come as a surprise to anyone, we all knew this was coming. Be happy he wasn't suspended a game. He'll pay the fine and move on to the next game.

Playoffs
11-14-2012, 07:00 PM
Boo!!!

Don't pay it, Tim!

Rockville
11-14-2012, 07:18 PM
The ball was out of his hands before Dobbins launched (and he did launch), plus there was helmet to helmet contact. I don't think there's a shadow of doubt that what he did was fineable, and, in my opinion, worthy of a suspension (which, thankfully, he did not get).

I agree. I expected a fine, maybe not this high but in the neighborhood of $20K. Even if Dobbins thought he was going to run, or was over the line of scrimmage, the ball left Cutlers hand and Dobbins was 4 yards away. If not 4 at the very least 3.5. And he didn't try to let up; he lunged into Cutler. I think it's very fortunate he wasn't suspended.

Wolf
11-14-2012, 07:50 PM
Looking at in hindsight I felt bad for the hit. I had two bets on the game (not that it is important) and said bet was off and you don't owe me.


At speed of the game at the time of the play. I thought cutler was way over the line of scrimmage(his first pump of the football was the line). I was wrong but was thinking where Tim was at the time..he had no idea I that section of time. Just stop the guy in front of you.


However it happens ,just like defenseless receivers. A second is not a long time in that scenario.i think where Tim got in trouble also was his comments afterwards

Dutchrudder
11-14-2012, 08:18 PM
Looking at in hindsight I felt bad for the hit. I had two bets on the game (not that it is important) and said bet was off and you don't owe me.


At speed of the game at the time of the play. I thought cutler was way over the line of scrimmage(his first pump of the football was the line). I was wrong but was thinking where Tim was at the time..he had no idea I that section of time. Just stop the guy in front of you.


However it happens ,just like defenseless receivers. A second is not a long time in that scenario.i think where Tim got in trouble also was his comments afterwards

If you go back and watch the play from the snap, you can clearly see the ball is spotted just across the 50 yard line. When the Center grabs it and sets up to hike, the ball is touching the 50 yard line. If you look at it that way, Cutler was definitely beyond the LOS when he threw it. The announcers had a bad angle to view the play and incorrectly marked the LOS at the 48.5 yard line, which is why some people think his back foot was still behind it.

mussop
11-14-2012, 08:23 PM
I don't have a problem with him getting fined. Someone remind me, what did the guy pay for knocking Schaubs block off?

TheIronDuke
11-14-2012, 09:04 PM
I don't have a problem with him getting fined. Someone remind me, what did the guy pay for knocking Schaubs block off?

$50k and one game suspended for Joe Mays, Von Miller got fined $25k I believe.

Speedy
11-15-2012, 06:44 AM
So d1ckhead gets 10k for diving at Cushing's knee and ending his season, but Dobbins gets 30k for meeting a running QB at the LOS. Makes perfect sense.

buddyboy
11-15-2012, 08:33 AM
So d1ckhead gets 10k for diving at Cushing's knee and ending his season, but Dobbins gets 30k for meeting a running QB at the LOS. Makes perfect sense.

A running QB without the ball. Who got hit in the head. Although, that opens up the question: is there more protection for head injuries than knee injuries? Both can end careers...

TimeKiller
11-15-2012, 08:52 AM
Helmet to helmet resulting a in a name QB on a branded team. I can't see why anyone would be surprised by this. Maybe 30K is a little stiff but come on, them's the breaks. I'd bet the 30K that Dobbins IS going to pay that he would do it 10 times over if it resulted in 10 more wins.

2012Champs
11-15-2012, 09:11 AM
So d1ckhead gets 10k for diving at Cushing's knee and ending his season, but Dobbins gets 30k for meeting a running QB at the LOS. Makes perfect sense.



I dont think the fine is calculated based off the injury it causes or amount of time the player who was hit misses.

Dutchrudder
11-15-2012, 09:55 AM
I dont think the fine is calculated based off the injury it causes or amount of time the player who was hit misses.

It isn't, which is why the guy that cheap-shotted Cushing was only fined 10k.

Perki-Perk
11-15-2012, 12:28 PM
So d1ckhead gets 10k for diving at Cushing's knee and ending his season, but Dobbins gets 30k for meeting a running QB at the LOS. Makes perfect sense.

Simple. Head injury vs. leg injury.

NFL is trying to clean up the traumatic outcomes of head injuries.

Perki-Perk
11-15-2012, 12:30 PM
Helmet to helmet resulting a in a name QB on a branded team. I can't see why anyone would be surprised by this. Maybe 30K is a little stiff but come on, them's the breaks. I'd bet the 30K that Dobbins IS going to pay that he would do it 10 times over if it resulted in 10 more wins.

I'd argue that he wouldn't because that would cost him $300,000 which is a lot of money for Timmy.

Haha, in all seriousness, I think the team should pull money together and pick up the tab for him. (for the $30k fine..not advocating for dirty football..though I thought the hit was legit)

Vinny
11-15-2012, 12:49 PM
I dont think the fine is calculated based off the injury it causes or amount of time the player who was hit misses.yeah the NFL does a lot of things well, but their arbitrary all-over the-map system of player and Team fines is a joke at best. The players union accepted this whimsical system so its hard to cry about it now (players not us fans). I'm not accusing anyone of actually crying about this incident but when I do see players grumbling about how arbitrary this is I can't help but think that their Union leadership missed the boat on this one.

I think an independent panel of ex-players should make the decision on the fines. An equal mix of defensive and offensive players. It's also a good way to keep the older guys in the game/eyes of the public as well.