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drs23
11-12-2012, 05:03 PM
This is an article I found as a link on Steph's Chron blog. I found it interesting and historically spot on from what I recall about the times then...

What can we learn from Gary Kubiakís career in Houston?

Gary Kubiak doesnít have a personality like a Ryan or a Harbaugh. He hasnít been profiled to death like Andy Reid or Norv Turner. He doesnít have the rings of Mike Tomlin or Bill Belichick. If not for the simple fact that heís been in Houston forever, Iím not sure if most NFL fans could even name the head coach of the Texans. But his coaching career has been a fascinating one that leaves me with more questions than answers.
In January 2011, I wrote that Kubiak and Jack Del Rio were given incredibly long leashes in the AFC South. From 1970 to 2010, only four head coaches had (a) finished with a .500 or worse record in four out of five seasons with the same team, (b) finished with a .500 or worse record in the fifth season, and (c) were retained to coach for a sixth season. The four head coaches ó Marvin Lewis, Dan Reeves, Bart Starr, and John McKay ó all had extenuating circumstances for their failures, which differentiated them from Del Rio and Kubiak, who were about to become the fifth and sixth such coaches.

Things have changed dramatically in 22 months. The Jaguars have changed owners, head coaches, and quarterbacks, and likely will have a new general manager soon, too. Meanwhile, the Texans still have the same four men ó Bob McNair, Rick Smith, Kubiak and Matt Schaub ó in the four most prominent roles in the organization. Houstonís one big move, hiring Wade Phillips as defensive coordinator, has worked perfectly. Phillips has turned a dreadful Houston defense into one of the best units in the league.

READ THE REST HERE (http://www.footballperspective.com/what-can-we-learn-from-gary-kubiaks-career-in-houston/)

GP
11-12-2012, 07:40 PM
I just don't give clicks to the Chronicle.

Thank you for the bit you posted, though.

houstonspartan
11-12-2012, 07:50 PM
Generally, I like Steph Stradley's blog. But, when it comes to Gary Kubiak, I can't read her. She loves the guy, will defend him through ANYTHING, and is not necessarily impartial. Other than that, she's great. But when it comes to Kubiak, she has a massive blind spot.


As a friend messaged me last night: "Kubiak should write Wade checks, because if it wasn't for him, Kubiak would have been fired two years ago."

Amen.

Tailgate
11-12-2012, 07:57 PM
I just don't give clicks to the Chronicle.

Thank you for the bit you posted, though.

Its not a link to the chron.

thunderkyss
11-12-2012, 10:59 PM
This is an article I found as a link on Steph's Chron blog. I found it interesting and historically spot on from what I recall about the times then...



Wow, really great read, especially that last section, the Q&A with Texans_Chick... it's really nice to have a fan like that representing us on the national stage (as opposed to the Walrus & Justice).

This was an interesting comment & something I've always felt to be true
I agree that Houston essentially was an expansion team twice ó itís something I wrote about here ó so I agree that Kubiak did a nice job rebuilding the team.

Cleveland is the closest thing to what we had at the time & look at where they are. I think the first thing they have to do, is find someone with a vision of the organization from top to bottom, then find someone who can instill that vision, & finally, stick to their guns.

That's what McNair did & it seems to be working out. Cleveland on the other hand is being run by the media & the fans. They'll have a revolving door at the head coach/gm positions until they figure that out.

I'm not a big Kubiak fan. It wouldn't have hurt my feelings if he was let go after the 2010 season. I still feel jilted that both he & Smith still have the same positions in this organization.

But I'm enjoying the 8-1 start

thunderkyss
11-12-2012, 11:14 PM
As a friend messaged me last night: "Kubiak should write Wade checks, because if it wasn't for him, Kubiak would have been fired two years ago."


Yeah, I still don't agree with that.

We've beaten several "good defenses"

This is a team game. Defense doesn't win on it's own. Last night we beat a top 5 NFL defense in their house. It wasn't because our defense played better than theirs, it was because our offense played better than theirs. Most people thought special teams was going to decide this game & they were a non-factor.

We beat the Steelers last year. The Steelers who finished with the best defense in the league.

Last year, the NYJ, Jacksonville Jags, Cincinnati Bengals, Philladelphia Eagles, Seattle Seahawks, & Cleveland Browns had top 10 defenses. None of those teams were in the class of the Houston Texans.

& it is widely believed (meaning outside of Houston Texas) that the absence of an offensive player (Matt Schaub) hurt our chances of a Super Bowl appearance last year more than any thing else.

No doubt about it, without Wade nothing we've seen in the last two years would have been possible (& maybe that's what you are saying) but without an offense, we're the Jags or the Browns.

TheMatrix31
11-13-2012, 04:12 AM
Totally agreed. They both deserve a ****load of credit.

Brisco_County
11-13-2012, 08:58 AM
What do you mean you found a good article on her blog? All her articles are good. :heart:

Even though she and Lance Zeirlein are the only reasons to go to the Chronicle, they are very good reasons.

GP
11-13-2012, 09:08 AM
What do you mean you found a good article on her blog? All her articles are good. :heart:

Even though she and Lance Zeirlein are the only reasons to go to the Chronicle, they are very good reasons.

It's hard for me because before she was contributing to The Chronicle, she was here and doing stuff for this board...we would all say "The Chronicle should have YOU as its Texans beat writer!"

Then she becomes a blogger for them, and now (sad to say) I find it hard to click on the link and go to the Chronicle-based blog articles she writes. I don't like the way the Chronicle holds its nose up and "regular Joes" while their own "professional" Texans writer is, how do I say this, not up to standard for us.

She invests huge amounts of time, has cultivated great relationships while balancing those relationships with true journalism creativity, and I guess I still just hold a grudge at the Chronicle because they get clicks to their site off of her.....but she's not their bonafide Texans reporter. It's like they're getting away with murder, to me, putting cronyism above professionalism. Granted, TC might not even WANT a full time gig with the Chronicle.

I just have a conflict with going to that site. It goes back to the days of Richard Justice and how he would skewer the Texans without knowing what he was taking about, then jump on board the bandwagon, then hop off of it, and then Johnny Pancakes gets everything wrong that he puts his hand to. But hey, just like Arian Foster snuck onto the Texans...so did TC find a way to make the Chronicle look and function in a competent manner. Quickly.

I wish she would sometimes do some "TexanTalk exclusive" stuff here, even if it was just 3 or 4 times a year. I am not in any way griping at her, per se, just not happy with the Chronicle.

drs23
11-13-2012, 09:45 AM
...I just have a conflict with going to that site. It goes back to the days of Richard Justice and how he would skewer the Texans without knowing what he was taking about, then jump on board the bandwagon, then hop off of it, and then Johnny Pancakes gets everything wrong that he puts his hand to. But hey, just like Arian Foster snuck onto the Texans...so did TC find a way to make the Chronicle look and function in a competent manner. Quickly.

...just not happy with the Chronicle.

GP, do what you can do to iron that wad outta your panties. The link DOES NOT take you to the Chron as I tried to get across by saying "on" instead of "in". I'm sure it's difficult to make that distiction in so few words, there just isn't that much room in the title block. It's actually a link to "footballperspective.com" and it's a well written piece. By my standards anyway.

I guess I could have pasted all but the last sentence but that doesn't seem to adhere to the "no full article" rule, in spirit anyway.

HoustonFrog
11-13-2012, 10:06 AM
Nice piece but I'm not sure what to say on Kubiak. At this time, it looks like it was the right move and the team is succeeding. My issue with stories like above, is that it implies Kubiak was dealt a bad hand and he just had to wait it out. The reality is he had a part in the bad hand...helping pick those D Coordinators, play calling where Foster wasn't involved or he was running half back passes, time management and with draft picks. So I don't think his first 4-5 years were just a great coach in waiting. He was a very bad coach at times.

The next issue has to do with Wade. To me this team has co-head coaches. One on O and one on D and it works really well. They drafted well for this D system. Maybe Kubiak turned a corner somewhere overall as coach but I think it is more about Wade. I'm also not sure if Schaub's injury didn't force him into an offense that actually was the best in the long run and then he realized it. I give Kubiak credit for everyone buying into his system and being a great O coach. Great guy.

So overall I'm in a holding pattern with signs pointing towards positive. I just don't think you can rewrite history and absolve him of the first years and the decisions that were made.

GP
11-13-2012, 10:19 AM
GP, do what you can do to iron that wad outta your panties. The link DOES NOT take you to the Chron as I tried to get across by saying "on" instead of "in". I'm sure it's difficult to make that distiction in so few words, there just isn't that much room in the title block. It's actually a link to "footballperspective.com" and it's a well written piece. By my standards anyway.

I guess I could have pasted all but the last sentence but that doesn't seem to adhere to the "no full article" rule, in spirit anyway.

I get it. I know full well that THIS article is not a Chron-linked article. I'm talking about the others that she's shared on here.

I was just saying why I initially didn't click the link. And why I hesitate to click any of TC's linked articles.

GP
11-13-2012, 10:26 AM
Nice piece but I'm not sure what to say on Kubiak. At this time, it looks like it was the right move and the team is succeeding. My issue with stories like above, is that it implies Kubiak was dealt a bad hand and he just had to wait it out. The reality is he had a part in the bad hand...helping pick those D Coordinators, play calling where Foster wasn't involved or he was running half back passes, time management and with draft picks. So I don't think his first 4-5 years were just a great coach in waiting. He was a very bad coach at times.

The next issue has to do with Wade. To me this team has co-head coaches. One on O and one on D and it works really well. They drafted well for this D system. Maybe Kubiak turned a corner somewhere overall as coach but I think it is more about Wade. I'm also not sure if Schaub's injury didn't force him into an offense that actually was the best in the long run and then he realized it. I give Kubiak credit for everyone buying into his system and being a great O coach. Great guy.

So overall I'm in a holding pattern with signs pointing towards positive. I just don't think you can rewrite history and absolve him of the first years and the decisions that were made.

Same here.

Because Gary is, generally speaking, a good guy who doesn't have Rex Ryan or some other sort of antics we'd be loathsome of...doesn't mean we need to forget the early years.

Builder of a competent offense, great identification skills as to what players he wanted in the offense (Schaub, Owen Daniels, the entire offensive line), but somewhat iffy as a "game day" manager from situation to situation. And grossly incapable of choosing proper defense staff members. For all that Gary can do well, he sort of nullified it with bad choices at d-coord.

Along comes Foster, Tate, and the offense becomes fairly automated--Able to go out there and manage themselves for the most part. Now BOTH phases of the offense are producing yardage and wins. Yet the team cannot overcome its bad defense when facing equally-talented or more talented opponents.

Along comes Wade and now the offense can literally snooze for an entire quarter yet still boot itself into competency at the snap of a finger, and we win. Consistently.

He steadied the organization. Nobody ever quit on him, not the front office, not the owner, not the players. Some fans did and some did not. Now that there's a bit of a happy ending, there is always some wringing of hands over those first several years of a failed defense, and a capable but not "complete" offense that held us back a few seasons ago. It has worked out for everybody in the end.

Texan_Bill
11-13-2012, 10:33 AM
What do you mean you found a good article on her blog? All her articles are good. :heart:

Even though she and Lance Zeirlein are the only reasons to go to the Chronicle, they are very good reasons.

Yup. I pretty much agree with you and thats whether I agree with them or not. They're always a good read.

The Pencil Neck
11-13-2012, 10:58 AM
Great read.

I am and have been a Kubiak fan. But even I would have fired him after the 2010 season. I think he's a very good coach but he is offensively oriented and he needed a defensive coach to balance him.

I'm glad McNair decided to be even more patient than I would have been.

Lurvinator11
11-13-2012, 04:42 PM
Great read.

I am and have been a Kubiak fan. But even I would have fired him after the 2010 season. I think he's a very good coach but he is offensively oriented and he needed a defensive coach to balance him.

I'm glad McNair decided to be even more patient than I would have been.

Seems like McNair is more patient than all of us.

I am glad for that. If it was put to a vote, Kubiak probably would have been out. Luckily, McNair had that final say, and here we are now!

infantrycak
11-13-2012, 06:10 PM
Great read.

I am and have been a Kubiak fan. But even I would have fired him after the 2010 season. I think he's a very good coach but he is offensively oriented and he needed a defensive coach to balance him.

I'm glad McNair decided to be even more patient than I would have been.

Ditto except the firing part. I would have given him one more year. I love the offense. Pre-game they put a side by side comparison up of two plays. Exact same formation - shown first from a rear view, then overhead - one a stretch play to Foster, the other a roll out with Schaub. They were identical right up until Schaub pulled up to throw the ball.

Then I watch other games, for example they were going on about Baltimore using play action this weekend, and it is the lamest thing in comparison. Straight back with the OL barely doing anything to make it look like a run play, the RB taking the fake and then immediately hopping forward into pass protection and Flacco has a miserable play fake which actually makes Carr's almost look OK.

I love his route designs as well. This last game is a good contrast. The Bears run a route tree which is very simple. It is based on hopeful mismatches of athleticism by Marshal and Hester. Kubiak schemes to create separation much more.

WG9032
11-13-2012, 10:49 PM
Ditto except the firing part. I would have given him one more year. I love the offense. Pre-game they put a side by side comparison up of two plays. Exact same formation - shown first from a rear view, then overhead - one a stretch play to Foster, the other a roll out with Schaub. They were identical right up until Schaub pulled up to throw the ball.Agree. I think Kubiak is one of the best offensive minds and teachers in the game. Many teams would jump at the chance to have him run their offense.

Houston Frog mentioned co-head-coaches. That's fine, lots of offensive minded head coaches especially aren't that involved in the other side of the ball. Philly and Andy Reid had a great run for many years with the late great Jim Johnson. That defense and that team has never been the same since he unfortunately passed.

Kubiak just needed a good mind on defense, and now he has one of the best.

Texans_Chick
11-17-2012, 12:22 PM
Generally, I like Steph Stradley's blog. But, when it comes to Gary Kubiak, I can't read her. She loves the guy, will defend him through ANYTHING, and is not necessarily impartial. Other than that, she's great. But when it comes to Kubiak, she has a massive blind spot.


As a friend messaged me last night: "Kubiak should write Wade checks, because if it wasn't for him, Kubiak would have been fired two years ago."

Amen.

Eh. All coaches and players have strengths and weaknesses. When everybody was talking just about Kubiak's weaknesses, nobody was talking about his strengths. So it might seem like I'm being partial, but really I'm trying to bring balance to the discussion.

When everybody was talking about firing Kubiak two seasons ago, he had the 2nd most efficient offense in the league. It's actually hard to win 6 games/be competitive in more when you have the worst defense in the league.

Was it Kubiak's desire to go into the 2010 season with an entirely inexperienced secondary? Don't know. But it is pretty easy to say that the Texans would have a much better team if they got better coaching on the defensive side of the ball.

Ultimately, if I thought the Texans would have had a better shot at winning faster if Kubiak was fired in 2010, I would have advocated for it. I've advocated for various firings in the past. But for me, at the time, I didn't think that was worth doing, especially when the rumor was that Rick Smith was going to stay and Kubiak was going to get fired. That rumor made not one lick of sense to me.

In any event, I was right, you were wrong. Neener neener. You can call that a blind spot, but I call it scoreboard.

(But thanks for the kind words on non-Kubiak topics. :kitten:)

ObsiWan
11-17-2012, 12:30 PM
(But thanks for the kind words on non-Kubiak topics. :kitten:)

Speaking of non-Kubiak topics, what's your lawyer brain say about Hartmann's law suit?

Texans_Chick
11-17-2012, 12:51 PM
It's hard for me because before she was contributing to The Chronicle, she was here and doing stuff for this board...we would all say "The Chronicle should have YOU as its Texans beat writer!"

Then she becomes a blogger for them, and now (sad to say) I find it hard to click on the link and go to the Chronicle-based blog articles she writes. I don't like the way the Chronicle holds its nose up and "regular Joes" while their own "professional" Texans writer is, how do I say this, not up to standard for us.

She invests huge amounts of time, has cultivated great relationships while balancing those relationships with true journalism creativity, and I guess I still just hold a grudge at the Chronicle because they get clicks to their site off of her.....but she's not their bonafide Texans reporter. It's like they're getting away with murder, to me, putting cronyism above professionalism. Granted, TC might not even WANT a full time gig with the Chronicle.

I just have a conflict with going to that site. It goes back to the days of Richard Justice and how he would skewer the Texans without knowing what he was taking about, then jump on board the bandwagon, then hop off of it, and then Johnny Pancakes gets everything wrong that he puts his hand to. But hey, just like Arian Foster snuck onto the Texans...so did TC find a way to make the Chronicle look and function in a competent manner. Quickly.

I wish she would sometimes do some "TexanTalk exclusive" stuff here, even if it was just 3 or 4 times a year. I am not in any way griping at her, per se, just not happy with the Chronicle.

My 2 cents on this:

One of the reasons why I choose to write for the Chronicle is that I like having newspapers, even imperfect ones, and want them to succeed. I think they are good for communities, especially in times of emergencies.

The Houston Chronicle has been very supportive of my writing. Specifically, a number of the sportswriters there have been extremely supportive of my writing.

After I quit it after 2006 when I was writing also for another site, it was John McClain who asked me at an event if I would come back because he missed having my voice at the site. That he arranged for me to freelance for them. That was very gracious of him to go out of his way to do that because not all journalists are as supportive to bloggers as the people at the Chronicle have been to me.

I have no desire to be a beat writer for the Chronicle. I do not have the time. To do it well, you have to be at the facility every day. You have to travel. You experience sports as a job and not a love, and whenever this writing thing is no longer fun for me, I'm not going to do it. I have a family, and beat writing would not be an easy job to do with children. If I wanted to go through my life juggling stuff, I'd be making a ton more money that I could as a sports journalist.

I also do not enjoy writing basic news pieces. I prefer writing analysis. I don't like writing to outwardly imposed deadlines or writing about topics an editor wants me to write. I have freedom to write whatever I want when the muse and time permits. So I'm good with my arrangement with the Chron.

However, basic news pieces are an important part of coverage of local teams--otherwise, you'd only get whatever the team wants to let you hear.

Due to the Chronicle's help, I've been able to get credentials for OTAs, minicamps, training camp in recent years. I pretty much attend that every day I can get away. Because I know that news is dear to get during that time. But I prefer to go to games as a fan, and not have to write a detailed post-game right after the game unless I feel like writing a detailed post-game right after the game.

I'm just trying to live my life with joy. And in a way that is good for my family. And use the Chron platform as a resource to help Texans fans out because I'm a fan, and I dig Texans fans. (Ironically, in real life I'm a pretty private person for someone who feels compelled to wear silly clothes, write a blog for the love of her fave team. But I came to recognize that I can do good things if I put myself out there more in the world a bit because of how things have sort of evolved. If you asked me 10 years ago that I'd be doing any of the stuff I do now, I'd think it would be nuts).

I'm not telling you to click on the Chron if you don't like writers there. But I will tell you that if people don't click on my blog, some day the Chron won't keep me on. Margins for newspapers are very small given diluted ad dollars.

I click on links that I want to support. I do that by writers not platforms. I do not like a lot of what Bleacher Report is or their business model one bit. I've been plagiarized there and the quantity of inaccurate and sexist content makes me feel vomity.

However, I do like some of their writers, and will link/click on their stuff if it is good. You encourage what you support. If you want to encourage more of my writing or other people's writing, then click on it, comment on it, share it on the web. Because that and my continued interest is how my writing will be able to continue to exist.

thunderkyss
11-17-2012, 01:37 PM
I'm just trying to live my life with joy. And in a way that is good for my family. And use the Chron platform as a resource to help Texans fans out because I'm a fan, and I dig Texans fans.



Steph, you don't need have to explain yourself to the "elite" around here. We know & appreciate what you do for us.

Lucky
11-17-2012, 11:39 PM
I found myself in agreement with this comment (http://www.footballperspective.com/what-can-we-learn-from-gary-kubiaks-career-in-houston/) posted after the interview/article:

Richie November 12, 2012 at 7:52 pm (http://www.footballperspective.com/what-can-we-learn-from-gary-kubiaks-career-in-houston/#comment-3346)

I love that Wade Phillips’ twitter handle is @sonofbum.

I am not following the Houston situation closely, but I see one particular relevant trend: when Wade Phillips takes over as HC/DC, the teams’ defense improves every time – many times by a significant amount.

Here are the Defensive SRS improvements between year 1 of Wade Phillips and the year before he arrived:

Houston – 6.9 points (took a negative DSRS and made it positive)
Dallas – 3.0 points (neg to pos)
San Diego – 9.2 points (neg to pos)
Atlanta – 3.5 (neg to pos)
Buffalo – 1.4 (took a negative DSRS, and improved it, but it was still negative)
Denver – 9.1 (neg to pos)
Philadelphia – 0.1 (the only time he took over a positive DSRS team, and it improved by a tiny bit)
New Orleans – 7.1 (neg to pos)

I don’t see any reason to think that Gary Kubiak suddenly became a better coach. I think he added one of the best defensive coordinators of all time. I’m not saying that Kubiak is a bad coach, I’m just saying he probably hasn’t changed much.

Wade is certainly one of the best defensive coordinators of our time. What he has done in Houston is nothing short of phenomenal.

infantrycak
11-17-2012, 11:56 PM
I found myself in agreement with this comment (http://www.footballperspective.com/what-can-we-learn-from-gary-kubiaks-career-in-houston/) posted after the interview/article:


Wade is certainly one of the best defensive coordinators of our time. What he has done in Houston is nothing short of phenomenal.

Yeah, Wade is one of the best defensive minds of our time. I happen to think Kubiak is one of the best offensive minds as well. As far as I am concerned I could give a crap about who is better and just be glad to have both.

ObsiWan
11-17-2012, 11:58 PM
Steph, you don't need have to explain yourself to the "elite" around here. We know & appreciate what you do for us.
^^^^
THIS!

To not click on and enjoy Steph's work because it happens to be on the Chron.com site is, to me, akin to tossing the baby out with the bathwater.

Txn_in_Oki
11-18-2012, 04:02 AM
Great read as always.

As a fan that loves a game, but doesn't have time to really get into the weeds it's great to have people on this board that know what they are talking about.

Reading this makes me appreciate how good we have it here. TC knows what she is talking about and so do a lot of people here on the board.

Lucky
11-18-2012, 08:44 AM
The next issue has to do with Wade. To me this team has co-head coaches. One on O and one on D and it works really well.
Now, they just need a head coach for the special teams and they'll have the perfect storm.

HoustonFrog
11-18-2012, 10:27 AM
Eh. All coaches and players have strengths and weaknesses. When everybody was talking just about Kubiak's weaknesses, nobody was talking about his strengths. So it might seem like I'm being partial, but really I'm trying to bring balance to the discussion.

When everybody was talking about firing Kubiak two seasons ago, he had the 2nd most efficient offense in the league. It's actually hard to win 6 games/be competitive in more when you have the worst defense in the league.

Was it Kubiak's desire to go into the 2010 season with an entirely inexperienced secondary? Don't know. But it is pretty easy to say that the Texans would have a much better team if they got better coaching on the defensive side of the ball.

Ultimately, if I thought the Texans would have had a better shot at winning faster if Kubiak was fired in 2010, I would have advocated for it. I've advocated for various firings in the past. But for me, at the time, I didn't think that was worth doing, especially when the rumor was that Rick Smith was going to stay and Kubiak was going to get fired. That rumor made not one lick of sense to me.

In any event, I was right, you were wrong. Neener neener. You can call that a blind spot, but I call it scoreboard.

(But thanks for the kind words on non-Kubiak topics. :kitten:)

And the bolded here was what I was saying in my earlier post. Kubiak shouldn't get a pass because his offense was prolific but the defense was horrible and his secondary wasn't coached right. He had a massive hand in hiring those coaches. He had a massive hand in drafting those players. He had a culture of FOG..Friends of Gary. That goes into the equation just as much as the offense. So while your instincts may be right overall, it doesn't mean that people can rewrite history. Wade was basically pushed on the franchise because no other D Coordinator they found worthy worked. He has basically saved the team and Gary. Gary is great on offense. Wade is great on defense. Overall it makes one great team. He didn't lose the team and they played hard but it doesn't erase those mistakes. Love your work!

Again Gary had the players supporting him. He has a great O mind. The culture changed when Wade got there and coached up the D right. Right now things are A-1. But alot of the previous 5 years can't be rewritten just because he is a success now. JMO.

76Texan
11-18-2012, 10:42 AM
There are several issues at play here.

1. What was it that caused Wade's sophomore lump (or the perception of such) everywhere he goes?
Perhaps the offense didn't help him out enough, and it dragged down the defense???

2. It's not that easy to become a good HC on first stint.

There are coaches who never had a winning record: (Dennis Erickson 0-6
Dan Hanning 0-7).

Manny coaches didn't start off well:

Chuck Fairbanks 1st winning season in 4th year.
Jeff Fisher started w 5 losing seasons (including one as an interim coach.)
Famed coach Sid Gilman had a losing record his first 5 yrs 28-31-1
Tom Landry was 0-11 in his first year, and didn't have a winning season until his 7th

Bill Walsh was 24-37 in his first 4 years.

Bill Belichik had 1 winning season in his first 5 yrs with the Browns
Dick Jauron 1 in 10
Dom Capers 1 in 12 with 2 orgs.

Dave Wandstedt was 16 games under .500 in his first 6 yrs w/ the Bears before he took the Dolphins to 4 straight winning seasons.
(But the team fell flat 1-8 in his 5th yr, leading to his firing.)

3. And there's that that matter with rebuilding a team.

Tom Flores won 2 SBs with the Raiders but went 14-34 w the Seahawks.

Dennis Green built a good Vikings team but went 16-32 with the Cards.

Rich Kotite started off well with the Eagles 36-28, but his next team (Jets) went 4-28.

Steve Mariuci was 58-39 with the Niners, 15-28 w the Lions

Bum Phillips never had a winning team in 5 yrs w the Saints.

Buddy Ryans was 12-20 w the Cards.

George Seifert was 16-32 w the Panthers.

Sam Wyches was 4 games under.500 in 8 years with the Bungals; he was 18 under with the Bucs.

Mike Shannahan is 14-27 w the Skins so far.

...
The rationals:
- Usually, one gets good in one's job with experience.
- It normally takes both sides of the ball to have a good team.
- Rebuilding is never an easy job.