PDA

View Full Version : Hit on Cutler...


BlueSteel
11-12-2012, 02:36 AM
I have been floating around enjoying some of the news articles after the win and I was shocked to see a number of articles about Cutler being knocked out. It seems the fans in Chicago view the hit as "dirty" and "intended to knock Cutler out of the game."

When I watched the play unfold, the first thing I thought when he got hit was, "Why did he throw the ball he was way past the line of scrimmage" and Cutler just stopped running to throw the pass when the DBs came up for the hit.

When Dobbins hit him I thought, "Why the hell did he not slide after attempting to run the ball." Thinking that as soon as he passed the line of scrimmage he became a "runner."

So the question that I am stuck with and was confused about when there were to flags thrown was this... How can Cutler be flagged for throwing an illegal forward pass when he crosses the line of scrimage and yet still be protected as a QB when he ran the ball across the line of scrimmage?

All examples of running QBs crossing the line of scrimmage I can think of did not result in helmet to helmet calls unless the QB was sliding. RBs are not given helmet to helmet protection when they run the ball and I would have assumed it would pass over to Cutler in this instance.

All fans crying about this being some sort of headhunting bounty on the Texans parts need to go look at the two hits Scaub took against the Broncos. Then they can cry because they will realize our QB wouldn't be caught dead leavng the field after a tough hit and Cutler wouldn't return to the field for a play that was nowhere near as violent.

Norg
11-12-2012, 02:42 AM
i would think after a QB runs past the LOS which isnt it like 12 yards hell would be consider a runner and he didnt even slide and when u hit a RB and heck sometimes even a WR and TE past the LOS getting hit high nothing gets called

its getting sicking D players might has well think u cant hit a QB high never no matter what even if u hit him in the chest vicous that would prob get called 2


THey might has well put flags on these QB's and get it over with LOL if u pull the flag off the play ends

HJam72
11-12-2012, 02:43 AM
That was not even a hit as much as an, "Oh, excuse me, but I have to stop you from going any further." Granted, he did make helmet to face-mask contact, but our guy didn't exactly push off and explode into a hit.

HJam72
11-12-2012, 02:44 AM
i would think after a QB runs past the LOS which isnt it like 12 yards hell would be consider a runner and he didnt even slide and when u hit a RB and heck sometimes even a WR and TE past the LOS getting hit high nothing gets called

its getting sicking D players might has well think u cant hit a QB high never no matter what even if u hit him in the chest vicous that would prob get called 2


THey might has well put flags on these QB's and get it over with LOL if u pull the flag off the play ends

No, because they'd a call a foul on you for tearing part of the QB's "uniform" off. :polevault:

Corrosion
11-12-2012, 02:55 AM
That was not even a hit as much as an, "Oh, excuse me, but I have to stop you from going any further." Granted, he did make helmet to face-mask contact, but our guy didn't exactly push off and explode into a hit.

Contact to the head was made .... obviously. I didnt think it was that significant until I realized he wasnt on the field in the second half .... then had to rewatch the hit a few times. Still didnt seem all that hard but .... Im not the one who got hit.


I know Fiddler disputed that in a thread in the Texans section saying that only applies to a defenseless player or a QB (in the pocket) but the way it was called was contact to the head - nothing said about defenseless player or "QB."

They either blew the call or the rule is different FIIK?

I'll have to look up the rule tomorrow to clarify one way or the other .... its 3am now.

Showtime100
11-12-2012, 03:08 AM
Honestly, I have little sympathy providing Cutler is ok. Four names, two people. Albert Haynesworth, Jared Allen.

BlueSteel
11-12-2012, 03:25 AM
Honestly, I have little sympathy providing Cutler is ok. Four names, two people. Albert Haynesworth, Jared Allen.

I still think that random Charger's player that exploded Schaub's jaw after he threw an interception was probably the worst it I have seen Schaub take so far. If my memory serves me, I think that was the season Diva Rob went down too which made it all the more annoying.

Watching Haynesworth fall on Schaub over and over and over did get annoying though. :wild:

BlueSteel
11-12-2012, 03:25 AM
I know Fiddler disputed that in a thread in the Texans section saying that only applies to a defenseless player or a QB (in the pocket) but the way it was called was contact to the head - nothing said about defenseless player or "QB."

Blah, I searched for discussions and couldn't find any in either section.

Corrosion
11-12-2012, 04:31 AM
Blah, I searched for discussions and couldn't find any in either section.

Couldnt sleep ....

Starts here (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96109&page=2) and continues for the next few posts between he and I.

thunderkyss
11-12-2012, 04:32 AM
That was not even a hit as much as an, "Oh, excuse me, but I have to stop you from going any further." Granted, he did make helmet to face-mask contact, but our guy didn't exactly push off and explode into a hit.

I think the words you are looking for is "launch himself into" which is why they got Dunta on that DeSean Jackson hit. Which is true, he didn't launch himself into Cutler. He didn't use the crown of his helmet as a weapon, & he didn't hit him as he tried to slide.

On the radio they said Kubiak was extremely upset, I'm sure he's going to ask "the league" about it today. That should have been a loss of down & a penalty in our favor..... didn't end up hurting us any though.

I was just glad they wiped out that big play by Hester.

eriadoc
11-12-2012, 05:08 AM
If you watch the hit in slo-mo, he really lit up Cutler. His helmet catches Cutler's pretty good and you see Cutler's head get turned. It's like catching someone good on the side of the jaw - lights out. As for the question about him being a runner, all you really need to know is Cutler is a QB. The NFL makes up its own rules when it comes to QBs and everyone knows you can't hit a QB like that and get away with it. Dobbins was penalized and will get fined. If it were Schaub, there would be a similar percentage of Houston fans crying foul. It's just the way of the world.

TEXANRED
11-12-2012, 06:46 AM
Dobbins hit cutler standing straight up and down and his helmet when he hit Cutler was off to the side. The sudden stop, whip lash, and the ground caused Cutlers head injury. Cutler was a runner and was treated as such.

Clean hit.

HoustonFrog
11-12-2012, 07:07 AM
Come on. It was purely an illegal hit. Cutler is a dbag but it was illegal. He was still a QB...and I think also still behind the line..looking to throw. He hit him right in the head while running at him to tackle him. Under NFL rules now its easily an illegal hit.

Watch it again...it wasn't some incidental contact. I wouldn't call launching but he smacked him and left his feet.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000093552/Cutler-injured-on-illegal-hit

TimeKiller
11-12-2012, 07:10 AM
I don't know about intent to injure but that was helmet to helmet. Not quite dirty but definitely illegal. He better have his checkbook ready today. Hopefully the league won't tack a suspension on too.


EDIT: Watching the replay a few more times here, I gotta say, it looks worse every time. That was pretty dirty. He's definitely taking a shot at Cutler. The guilty hands afterward don't help. Also, you don't have to aim hip high to not take a shot at his extremely upper torso. There's a whole middle section in there that would've been a clean hit and still probably knocked Cutler's pansy ass out.

That's two down. Locker and Cutler. Who's next? My bet is Stafford.

Scooter
11-12-2012, 07:20 AM
i have no problem with the hit. dobbins didnt lower his head to use the helmet as a weapon, didnt launch, and didnt drive cutler to the ground. if a quarterback breaks the pocket and starts running, he's a runner and should be hit accordingly. past the line of scrimmage, he literally is a runner, and dobbins should've blown him up instead of putting a good smack and then stopping.

a little high, i understand the flag, but i disagree with it - both as a technicality (past the line of scrimmage) and fundamentally (good eyes up hit).

Fred
11-12-2012, 07:44 AM
I know Fiddler disputed that in a thread in the Texans section saying that only applies to a defenseless player or a QB (in the pocket) but the way it was called was contact to the head - nothing said about defenseless player or "QB."

They either blew the call or the rule is different FIIK?


Incorrect. When calling the penalty the ref clearly said "...hit to the QUARTERBACK ..."

So the officials blew the call. You can't call forward pass beyond the line of scrimmage AND hit to the QB because he was a RB. If Matt Forte is beyond the line of scrimmage and throws a pass does he get the same call? If not, bad call. If yes, then the ref should not have said "QB".

gwallaia
11-12-2012, 07:52 AM
I don't think the hit was intentional but it was illegal. IMO, the ref made the right call.

Señor Stan
11-12-2012, 07:58 AM
Cry me a river.

Cutler had 3 rushes for 37 yards including a 19 yarder. He should have slid if he didn't want to get hit.

The fact that he threw the ball beyond the LOS is irrelevant.

GlassHalfFull
11-12-2012, 08:02 AM
What Stan said.

Lots of Qbs went out with concussions this week. Hurts the new league concussion free image. Expect over reaction fines/suspensions all around.

Trail.Blazr
11-12-2012, 08:06 AM
When I saw the play real time, I thought the hit was hard, but legal. On the replay, in slow mo, I thought it was slightly late and to the head. But in either, I don't feel Dobbins launched himself nor did I get the sense that he was playing dirty, but it was a helmet to helmet hit and that flag wasn't getting picked up. It happens. If I'm a bears fan, I would consider it a cheap shot. That was a hard hitting game. Those players were playing loose. I can't imagine how difficult it is to pull off, which upon replay again, it almost appears like Dobbins was applying a hit and trying to pull off at the moment the hit was applied. Hard to stop a moving train. I'm sure the people who have issue with Jay getting plowed were applauding him when Chris C was talking about him being a "Bears QB" because he's diving head first, etc...

You get a QB who's doing that, someone will put a hat on him.

To the Letter, I feel you can't flag Dobbins for hitting above the QB's shoulders, as they stated, if you also confirm the QB was beyond the LOS. Especially with Cutler showing his willingness to play "tough".

HoustonFrog
11-12-2012, 08:10 AM
Cry me a river.

Cutler had 3 rushes for 37 yards including a 19 yarder. He should have slid if he didn't want to get hit.

The fact that he threw the ball beyond the LOS is irrelevant.

No offense Stan but that makes no sense. It is relevant. If he is in the pocket and behind the line..even if he is running forward..he is still a passer. He was looking to throw. I didn't think he crossed the line. They threw the flag on the fact that Dobbins went high. they do the same thing when WRs go across the middle and get hit in the helmet. If this was Schaub people would be up in arms.

welsh texan
11-12-2012, 08:33 AM
Got to say I think theres a little bit of homerism going on here. On the slo-mo you clearly see Dobbins is caught a little flat-footed when Cutler throws the ball, clearly expecting him to continue running.

Watch as Dobbins stops, adjusts, and then accelerates into Cutler with as much force as he can.

It was a dirty hit that deserves a fine, if he gets off on some technicality then all power to him, but it was a cheap shot in a game where we knew we had to rattle Cutler and we weren't getting too many opportunities to lay him out in the pocket.

If anyone did that to Schaub the feeling on this board would be very different.

TexanSam
11-12-2012, 08:57 AM
He crossed the line as a passer, not a runner, and was defenseless. That's why it was a penalty.

steelbtexan
11-12-2012, 09:01 AM
Dobbins shouldn't get fined, because when he crossed the LOS he should be considered a RB. He will get fined for launching which is BS, because Cutler wasn't defenseless like Jackson was on the Robinson hit.

The main reason God'ell will fine Dobbins is that the hit was on a QB. The owners gotta protect their investment you know. God'ell is ruining NFL football that I grew up with.

Dobbins had the opportunity to put a shot on Cutler and he took the shot. This used to not even be a question of a penalty on a hit like this before God'ell became commish. The hit probably wouldn't have been called by the replacement refs. But that's another subject.

Hervoyel
11-12-2012, 09:02 AM
I have been floating around enjoying some of the news articles after the win and I was shocked to see a number of articles about Cutler being knocked out. It seems the fans in Chicago view the hit as "dirty" and "intended to knock Cutler out of the game."

When I watched the play unfold, the first thing I thought when he got hit was, "Why did he throw the ball he was way past the line of scrimmage" and Cutler just stopped running to throw the pass when the DBs came up for the hit.

When Dobbins hit him I thought, "Why the hell did he not slide after attempting to run the ball." Thinking that as soon as he passed the line of scrimmage he became a "runner."

So the question that I am stuck with and was confused about when there were to flags thrown was this... How can Cutler be flagged for throwing an illegal forward pass when he crosses the line of scrimage and yet still be protected as a QB when he ran the ball across the line of scrimmage?

All examples of running QBs crossing the line of scrimmage I can think of did not result in helmet to helmet calls unless the QB was sliding. RBs are not given helmet to helmet protection when they run the ball and I would have assumed it would pass over to Cutler in this instance.

All fans crying about this being some sort of headhunting bounty on the Texans parts need to go look at the two hits Scaub took against the Broncos. Then they can cry because they will realize our QB wouldn't be caught dead leavng the field after a tough hit and Cutler wouldn't return to the field for a play that was nowhere near as violent.

Ok, well it was an illegal hit (helmet to helmet) and it was flagged as it should have been. After the Broncos hits on Schaub earlier in the year the last thing I want to do is look like I'm ok with it if my guy does it so I'm not making excuses. It was an illegal hit and Dobbins was penalized.

Having said that I don't believe that Dobbins intended to hit Cutler high like that. They were closing on one another fast and my impression after the hit happened was that Dobbins was a little surprised that Cutler was still standing upright when he got to him. Watch the hit again and you see how awkward Dobbins position is when he wraps up Cutler and their heads collide. I believe that Dobbins thought Cutler would go down, slide or something (throw the ball?) prior to the hit and he was waiting for that to happen all the way into the collision. Cutler on the other hand was trying to stretch that play out and make something happen. He was going to throw the ball at the last possible second and before either of them (Cutler or Dobbins) was exactly where they wanted to be "BAM!" they hit.

Dobbins gets fined for it he should shut up and pay the bill but I didn't see malice in the tackle.

IDEXAN
11-12-2012, 09:05 AM
Cutler was beyond the los (that's why he was flagged for the pass) and definitely not in any kind of sliding posture (feet first or head first). So under those circumstances, is he not treated as just your ordinary,
garden-variety running back instead of a QB ?

GP
11-12-2012, 09:32 AM
Two guys running straight into one another is not dirty.

One guy hoisting a guy into the air, then pile driving the guy into the turf with helmet in the chest. THAT is dirty.

A guy lowering his head and hitting a QB in the jaw/earhole as the QB is throwing the ball? THAT is dirty.

IMO, Dobbins clearly hit the QB in the head...but he wasn't trying to hurt him. Pollard had a bit of a helmet-to-helmet ding on OD or some other receiver for us in the Ravens game a few weeks ago, and I wasn't crying about how Pollard was being dirty--Because he wasn't. Yeah, hit our guy in the helmet...but it wasn't a dirty hit.

What Miller and Mabin (Broncos) did, IMO, was a dirty combination of hits on Schaub. Dobbins and Pollard, IMO, are examples of bad hits that aren't dirty.

Double Barrel
11-12-2012, 09:47 AM
If you watch the hit in slo-mo, he really lit up Cutler. His helmet catches Cutler's pretty good and you see Cutler's head get turned. It's like catching someone good on the side of the jaw - lights out. As for the question about him being a runner, all you really need to know is Cutler is a QB. The NFL makes up its own rules when it comes to QBs and everyone knows you can't hit a QB like that and get away with it. Dobbins was penalized and will get fined. If it were Schaub, there would be a similar percentage of Houston fans crying foul. It's just the way of the world.

QFT. Any discussion about hitting a QB at any point has to take into account the modern NFL. Comparisons to any other position is irrelevant. QBs are special positions in today's league, and as such, granted special privileges and protections.

Like it or not, just accept it as reality.

gtexan02
11-12-2012, 09:50 AM
Dobbits said outright he tried to hit Cutler up high because he was in the process of throwing and thought it would make him mess up. This proves a few things:

1. Dobbins hit Cutler as a passer, not a runner. Cutler's arm was cocked, too. Dobbins knew he was passing.

2. Dobbins purposefully hit him up high even though he could have hit him hip high instead. He even said he chose not to hit him hip high on purpose


Dobbins makes pretty clear contact with Cutler's head. Dirty or not makes no difference. I twas a pretty vicious hit, was definitely illegal, and Dobbins deserves both a penalty and a fine. I fthat had been Schaub, I'd call it dirty. Im as big of a homer as they come, but defending an obviously illegal hit after we've dealt with the same on other's boards is not something I'm going to do

ChampionTexan
11-12-2012, 09:59 AM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1720699/cutlerhit_medium.gif

GP
11-12-2012, 10:07 AM
That knocked the insulin out of him.

Sorry, it was there for the taking. :penalty:

BIG TORO
11-12-2012, 10:10 AM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1720699/cutlerhit_medium.gif

I like how he prances away in a oops ballerina way.

GP
11-12-2012, 10:12 AM
I like how he prances away in a oops ballerina way.

LMAO. You are so right. OMG, hilarious!

Dutchrudder
11-12-2012, 10:21 AM
The hit really doesn't look that bad to me, I would be surprised if he gets more than a 15k fine. He had his head up because he needed to try to block the pass, but he went for the hit after the throw anyways. Late hit on a passer, sure, but it wasn't all that vicious.

Big Lou
11-12-2012, 10:31 AM
Incorrect. When calling the penalty the ref clearly said "...hit to the QUARTERBACK ..."

So the officials blew the call. You can't call forward pass beyond the line of scrimmage AND hit to the QB because he was a RB. If Matt Forte is beyond the line of scrimmage and throws a pass does he get the same call? If not, bad call. If yes, then the ref should not have said "QB".

I agree with this. RB's don't enjoy the same protections that WR's get when it comes to helmet to helmet contact. Mainly because they lead with their helmet simply because of how they run.

Cutler became a RB the minute he "crossed" (Or when the Refs thought he crossed if you believe he didn't) the LOS. He therefore loses the protections of being a QB.

In all honesty the rule should probably be ammended because a QB doesn't run the ball the way a RB does. There should be some kind of defenseless QB rule when running. The QB is vunarable until he is way past the LOS.

I was screaming at the TV, although glad for the illegal forward pass, but pissed, because that was kind of having it both ways. I always wonder if the coaches yell some of the same things fans do when there are those strange calls.

ChampionTexan
11-12-2012, 10:39 AM
Agree with the call or not, the same officiating crew that called the illegal hit also called (and later confirmed) that Cutler was across the line of scrimmage, so clearly that fact was not lost on them.

At this point, I think it's a given that there's a fine involved. That's too bad for Dobbins, and hopefully (for his sake) it's not too big, but my my only real concern is whether or not there's a suspension involved. If there is, it's a potential problem as that means that we've only got 2 "ILB's" on the roster (and yes, I know that Nading has played some ILB, and may have to again).

Again, you can vehemently disagree with the concept (and you may be correct), but when a flag is thrown on a hit that knocks out a team's starting QB, I'm going to worry about a suspension - right up until the time the league announces what they're going to do.

Big Lou
11-12-2012, 10:42 AM
I like how he prances away in a oops ballerina way.

I wished there was a freeze frame of when the ball left his hand to see if he was behind the LOS at all.

TexanSam
11-12-2012, 10:56 AM
I don't know what the official rule on this is. Lance Zierlein tweeted about it during the game and said this

https://twitter.com/LanceZierlein/status/267822007595442176
Illegal hit on Cutler didn't matter that he was beyond line of scrimmage. A QB was hit above shoulders which is why the penalty was thrown

Along with a few other tweets to people questioning it.

@tankswt Nope. He wasn't a runner. He was defenseless QB. He threw the ball, he was just past the line.

@dabearmc He didn't run the blal. He threw it. He wasn't a "runner" on that play. He was defenseless

So does the rule state that he's still a passer, and thus still defenseless, even though he was across the line? If so, then it was the right call.

Dread-Head
11-12-2012, 11:11 AM
If you're a QB and decided to leave the safety of the pocket and decide to venture down field you're basically crossing the rope line and harassing the big dog across the street. When you do that you can't ***** that he bit you.

infantrycak
11-12-2012, 11:32 AM
So does the rule state that he's still a passer, and thus still defenseless, even though he was across the line? If so, then it was the right call.

It really doesn't matter if he is considered a QB or a RB. Rule 12, Section 2, Article 7(a) defines defenseless player and states "(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass." So the player's position doesn't matter. LT threw a bunch of TD passes. If he had been nailed high while passing he would have been a defenseless player.

Señor Stan
11-12-2012, 12:41 PM
Dobbits said outright he tried to hit Cutler up high because he was in the process of throwing and thought it would make him mess up. This proves a few things:

1. Dobbins hit Cutler as a passer, not a runner. Cutler's arm was cocked, too. Dobbins knew he was passing.

2. Dobbins purposefully hit him up high even though he could have hit him hip high instead. He even said he chose not to hit him hip high on purpose


Dobbins makes pretty clear contact with Cutler's head. Dirty or not makes no difference. I twas a pretty vicious hit, was definitely illegal, and Dobbins deserves both a penalty and a fine. I fthat had been Schaub, I'd call it dirty. Im as big of a homer as they come, but defending an obviously illegal hit after we've dealt with the same on other's boards is not something I'm going to do

Thanks for the heads up...I had only seen the replay a couple of time. Since Dobbins is basically saying he saw the QB as a passer I officially crawfish from my previous position.


Edited...Now Dobbins is saying he thought it was a running play...

I think I need the Elias Sports Bureau to figure this out for me.

infantrycak
11-12-2012, 01:06 PM
Dobbits said outright he tried to hit Cutler up high because he was in the process of throwing and thought it would make him mess up. This proves a few things:

1. Dobbins hit Cutler as a passer, not a runner. Cutler's arm was cocked, too. Dobbins knew he was passing.

2. Dobbins purposefully hit him up high even though he could have hit him hip high instead. He even said he chose not to hit him hip high on purpose


Dobbins makes pretty clear contact with Cutler's head. Dirty or not makes no difference. I twas a pretty vicious hit, was definitely illegal, and Dobbins deserves both a penalty and a fine. I fthat had been Schaub, I'd call it dirty. Im as big of a homer as they come, but defending an obviously illegal hit after we've dealt with the same on other's boards is not something I'm going to do

That doesn't match what he said in this article - Link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/12/texans-dobbins-nfl-shouldnt-fine-me-for-cutler-hit-he-ran-into-me/)

“I just felt like he was going to take off and run with the ball and I thought he was past the line.”

HOU-TEX
11-12-2012, 01:27 PM
That doesn't match what he said in this article - Link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/12/texans-dobbins-nfl-shouldnt-fine-me-for-cutler-hit-he-ran-into-me/)

I actually got a giggle out of this one

“I did not hit him in his head, and actually he ran into me,”

infantrycak
11-12-2012, 01:35 PM
I actually got a giggle out of this one

I did too. That was going a bit too far with the self-defense argument.

thunderkyss
11-12-2012, 04:21 PM
He crossed the line as a passer, not a runner, and was defenseless. That's why it was a penalty.

Best argument yet.

TEXANRED
11-12-2012, 05:29 PM
Come on. It was purely an illegal hit. Cutler is a dbag but it was illegal. He was still a QB...and I think also still behind the line..looking to throw. He hit him right in the head while running at him to tackle him. Under NFL rules now its easily an illegal hit.

Watch it again...it wasn't some incidental contact. I wouldn't call launching but he smacked him and left his feet.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000093552/Cutler-injured-on-illegal-hit

What video are you watching cus he never left his feet. Cutler was over the line and a runner. You can't guard against stupid and Cutler had plenty of time to defend himself by sliding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-wu6VwU6hI

CloakNNNdagger
11-12-2012, 08:03 PM
It really doesn't matter if he is considered a QB or a RB. Rule 12, Section 2, Article 7(a) defines defenseless player and states "(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass." So the player's position doesn't matter. LT threw a bunch of TD passes. If he had been nailed high while passing he would have been a defenseless player.

And since Cutler was called for an "illegal forward pass," he empirically was identified as "a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass" which carries the definition of "defenseless player," who cannot be exposed to a helmet-to-helmet hit. The latter penalty was not called on the field, but technically should have been, and this will be acknowledge by a fine from the league against Dobbins.

TEXANRED
11-12-2012, 08:11 PM
And since Cutler was called for an "illegal forward pass," he empirically was identified as "a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass" which carries the definition of "defenseless player," who cannot be exposed to a helmet-to-helmet hit. The latter penalty was not called on the field, but technically should have been, and this will be acknowledge by a fine from the league against Dobbins.

The hit doesn't look helmet to helmet. Dobbins' head appears off to the side. The head jerk from Cutler is due to the sudden stop of the rest of his body.

You can't not hit a guy who is running at you. Should Dobbins have stepped aside and allowed Cutler to keep running?

Cutlers injury is his own stupid fault. I bet you he won't do that again.

Wolf
11-12-2012, 08:29 PM
I heard from a guy today that Dobbins said he wanted to knock him out is this true?

TexanSam
11-12-2012, 08:57 PM
The hit doesn't look helmet to helmet. Dobbins' head appears off to the side. The head jerk from Cutler is due to the sudden stop of the rest of his body.

You can't not hit a guy who is running at you. Should Dobbins have stepped aside and allowed Cutler to keep running?

Cutlers injury is his own stupid fault. I bet you he won't do that again.

Don't hit him above the shoulders...

TEXANRED
11-12-2012, 09:03 PM
Don't hit him above the shoulders...

Don't run straight into the defender.

CloakNNNdagger
11-12-2012, 09:06 PM
The hit doesn't look helmet to helmet. Dobbins' head appears off to the side. The head jerk from Cutler is due to the sudden stop of the rest of his body.

You can't not hit a guy who is running at you. Should Dobbins have stepped aside and allowed Cutler to keep running?

Cutlers injury is his own stupid fault. I bet you he won't do that again.

Even if he didn't hit him helmet to helmet:

(b)􀀃 Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

(1)􀀃 Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless
player by encircling or grasping him; andNFL RULES (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf)

TEXANRED
11-12-2012, 09:11 PM
Even if he didn't hit him helmet to helmet:

NFL RULES (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf)

I hear you about the rules but I don't think these rules apply to this situation, or shouldnt anyway. Cutler was a runner and was past the line of scrimmage. Cutler ran straight at a defender and chose not to defend himself instead pulled off a boneheaded play that got him hurt. He was not a receiver going up for the catch nor was he in the pocket throwing the football. He was a runner.

If you run your car into the brick wall is it the brick wall's fault that you ran into it?

playa465
11-12-2012, 09:28 PM
I hear you about the rules but I don't think these rules apply to this situation, or shouldnt anyway. Cutler was a runner and was past the line of scrimmage. Cutler ran straight at a defender and chose not to defend himself instead pulled off a boneheaded play that got him hurt. He was not a receiver going up for the catch nor was he in the pocket throwing the football. He was a runner.

If you run your car into the brick wall is it the brick wall's fault that you ran into it?

:spit: LMAO Goodnight all!!

Fred
11-12-2012, 10:08 PM
Cutler became a RB the minute he "crossed" (Or when the Refs thought he crossed if you believe he didn't) the LOS. He therefore loses the protections of being a QB.

In all honesty the rule should probably be ammended because a QB doesn't run the ball the way a RB does. There should be some kind of defenseless QB rule when running. The QB is vunarable until he is way past the LOS.

I was screaming at the TV, although glad for the illegal forward pass, but pissed, because that was kind of having it both ways. I always wonder if the coaches yell some of the same things fans do when there are those strange calls.

Does the QB run the differently when Cam Newton runs or RGIII runs an option play? If the rule is changed to protect a defenseless QB when running rule, then a QB should not be allow to run for positive yardage. As soon as the QB reaches the LOS, the play is whistled dead for no gain. The worst abuser of the Qb running treatment was Steve Young. When a defender closed on him, he would lean his chest back and jut his knees out like he was starting to slide. If the defender backed off, he would shift to the side and run for another 6 or 10 yards. If the defender didn't back off, he did the slide for the penalty.

We did get the best of the off setting penalties because the big play was wiped out. I still say the calls were inconsistent. Unless if it is 4th and 4, and Arian Foster is about to get drilled for a 2 yard gain he could throw the ball forward and get a do over on off setting penalties.

thunderkyss
11-12-2012, 10:19 PM
I tried to argue it was a good hit. Old school & all, that's the way you stop a QB from wanting to run the ball.

But the truth of the matter is.... Cutler didn't have the ball when Dobbins hit him.

That throws out all "legalities" that might exist.

It doesn't matter that he was a QB, doesn't matter what side of the LOS he was on.... he didn't have the ball in his hands when he got hit.

Wolf
11-12-2012, 10:26 PM
When I first saw the play in full speed. I thought he was way over the line (replay proved he was at the line) I did think it was a bang bang play at first glance.

I don't know. When you see QBs (running) juke defenders for big yardage because the defenders held up. Everyone says what a play by the QB!! But when a defender levels them , it is "how can ye hit them?"
Guess as a defender you roll with the hits

TEXANRED
11-12-2012, 10:29 PM
I tried to argue it was a good hit. Old school & all, that's the way you stop a QB from wanting to run the ball.

But the truth of the matter is.... Cutler didn't have the ball when Dobbins hit him.

That throws out all "legalities" that might exist.

It doesn't matter that he was a QB, doesn't matter what side of the LOS he was on.... he didn't have the ball in his hands when he got hit.

So if a running back who is about to only get a one yard gain pulls up and throws the ball and gets leveled, does that mean he would get the 15 yard roughing the passer penalty?

thunderkyss
11-12-2012, 10:39 PM
So if a running back who is about to only get a one yard gain pulls up and throws the ball and gets leveled, does that mean he would get the 15 yard roughing the passer penalty?

Yes, then the RB gets cut for being a punk

infantrycak
11-12-2012, 10:42 PM
So if a running back who is about to only get a one yard gain pulls up and throws the ball and gets leveled, does that mean he would get the 15 yard roughing the passer penalty?

The NFL may need to clarify (although they probably will not unless someone tries to abuse the current setup) but as the rules read yes there should be offsetting penalties just as here. It doesn't matter who the passer is "in the act of throwing or immediately after" they are considered a defenseless player.

NitroGSXR
11-12-2012, 11:07 PM
I tried to argue it was a good hit. Old school & all, that's the way you stop a QB from wanting to run the ball.

It didn't stop Cutler. He scrambled for 11 on the very next play.

thunderkyss
11-12-2012, 11:16 PM
It didn't stop Cutler. He scrambled for 11 on the very next play.

Yeah, if they didn't give Dobbins the penalty, I bet he would have thought twice.

Yankee_In_TX
11-13-2012, 07:02 AM
So the question that I am stuck with and was confused about when there were to flags thrown was this... How can Cutler be flagged for throwing an illegal forward pass when he crosses the line of scrimage and yet still be protected as a QB when he ran the ball across the line of scrimmage?


That's a silly discussion being floated by the talking heads.

It's the NFL not a court of law.

IMHO.

(and the proper answer appears in here numerous times, he was still a passer even if it was an illegal play)

HOU-TEX
11-13-2012, 10:14 AM
When I first saw the play in full speed. I thought he was way over the line (replay proved he was at the line) I did think it was a bang bang play at first glance.

I don't know. When you see QBs (running) juke defenders for big yardage because the defenders held up. Everyone says what a play by the QB!! But when a defender levels them , it is "how can ye hit them?"
Guess as a defender you roll with the hits

He was actually a yard past the LOS. The LOS marker was wrong. The LOS was actually at the 50 (3rd and 9) and the LOS marker was sitting about the 49. That's why he appeared to be at the "red line" on tv.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-bears/0ap2000000093552/Cutler-injured-on-illegal-hit

TexanSam
11-13-2012, 10:18 AM
I hear you about the rules but I don't think these rules apply to this situation, or shouldnt anyway. Cutler was a runner and was past the line of scrimmage. Cutler ran straight at a defender and chose not to defend himself instead pulled off a boneheaded play that got him hurt. He was not a receiver going up for the catch nor was he in the pocket throwing the football. He was a runner.

If you run your car into the brick wall is it the brick wall's fault that you ran into it?

He was a passer. He was penalized as a passer, even if he was past the LOS and was defenseless.

GlassHalfFull
11-13-2012, 10:20 AM
He was actually a yard past the LOS. The LOS marker was wrong. The LOS was actually at the 50 (3rd and 9) and the LOS marker was sitting about the 49. That's why he appeared to be at the "red line" on tv.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-bears/0ap2000000093552/Cutler-injured-on-illegal-hit

Hou-tex is right. Look at where the ball is spotted. And the announcers were so caught up that they never looked at where the ball was actually spotted on the replays.

I still won't be surprised if there are fines just because of the number of qbs with concussions this week. To be clear, I don't think Dobbins hit was dirty. But Goodell probably won't leave this one alone.

Dread-Head
11-13-2012, 11:11 AM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1720699/cutlerhit_medium.gif

Cutler threw the ball a nano second before he got hit. It was obvious that it wasn't a malicious hit. Had he hit him full on Cutler would STILL be unconscious.

Rey
11-13-2012, 11:33 AM
When I was watching the game I screamed that he was passed the Los as soon as he threw the ball.

I don't think dobbins should have been penalized or fined. If I felt like he was a runner and not a passer I'm pretty sure dobbins felt like he was tackling a runner rather than going in for a sack.

That play was cutlers fault for not realizing where he was at on the field.

eriadoc
11-13-2012, 11:56 AM
All this talk of what should happen or what ought to be is missing the point. Cutler is a QUARTERBACK in the NFL, regardless of his location on the field of play, if he's running, passing, or playing tiddlywinks. If a defensive player hits a QB in the head, anyplace on the field, he's getting fined. It's really that simple. Btch, moan, groan, gripe and/or complain about it, but that is just the way it is. And it's going to get worse, not better.

DBCooper
11-13-2012, 12:23 PM
Cutler threw the ball a nano second before he got hit. It was obvious that it wasn't a malicious hit. Had he hit him full on Cutler would STILL be unconscious.

Definitely wasn't malicious. I believe this was a total accident.

But still helmet to helmet on a QB, he might get fined on this one.

infantrycak
11-13-2012, 12:50 PM
All this talk of what should happen or what ought to be is missing the point. Cutler is a QUARTERBACK in the NFL, regardless of his location on the field of play, if he's running, passing, or playing tiddlywinks. If a defensive player hits a QB in the head, anyplace on the field, he's getting fined. It's really that simple. Btch, moan, groan, gripe and/or complain about it, but that is just the way it is. And it's going to get worse, not better.

It isn't that simple. Vick, RG III, Newton and other QB's who head down field as runners get hit in the head regularly and have suffered several concussions without fines.

disaacks3
11-13-2012, 12:54 PM
Hou-tex is right. Look at where the ball is spotted. And the announcers were so caught up that they never looked at where the ball was actually spotted on the replays.

I still won't be surprised if there are fines just because of the number of qbs with concussions this week. To be clear, I don't think Dobbins hit was dirty. But Goodell probably won't leave this one alone. I expect a fine, as he's still a QB, and it still looks helmet-to-helmet.

There was no doubt in my mind that he was past the LoS at the game, nor on the numerous replays we kept seeing over and over. Heck, the Bears fan we were with kept ranting about the "wasted challenge" after the game as he saw it the first time on replay.

Hopefully, it's a token 15K.

eriadoc
11-13-2012, 01:17 PM
It isn't that simple. Vick, RG III, Newton and other QB's who head down field as runners get hit in the head regularly and have suffered several concussions without fines.

I haven't seen a helmet-to-helmet hit on a QB yet that hasn't been fined. It's happened, I suppose, but I don't know about it. I do know of several helmet-to-helmet hits on non-QB players that have been fined, in addition to all the QB hits. Can't hit a QB in the head these days. Jack Lambert was a prophet.

badboy
11-13-2012, 01:37 PM
I don't know about intent to injure but that was helmet to helmet. Not quite dirty but definitely illegal. He better have his checkbook ready today. Hopefully the league won't tack a suspension on too.


EDIT: Watching the replay a few more times here, I gotta say, it looks worse every time. That was pretty dirty. He's definitely taking a shot at Cutler. The guilty hands afterward don't help. Also, you don't have to aim hip high to not take a shot at his extremely upper torso. There's a whole middle section in there that would've been a clean hit and still probably knocked Cutler's pansy ass out.

That's two down. Locker and Cutler. Who's next? My bet is Stafford.This. We got to see the line across the field for LOS but players can't see that. NFL has to stop these type of hits to protect all players; it is not always the person being hit that goes out with injury. The ball was long gone before Dobbins hit Cutler. Helmet to helmet, enough said.

Bringing up other plays is ridiculous imo. Dobbins deserves a fine and if he is suspended, I'll keep my mouth shut.

Showtime100
11-13-2012, 02:56 PM
Just glad Antonio Smith wasn't the one hitting Cutler on the play. Roger Goodell would have taken him out back and shot him on the spot. :fingergun:

thunderkyss
11-13-2012, 04:36 PM
Has he been fined yet?

Hervoyel
11-13-2012, 04:39 PM
I'm really starting to wonder if it's possible to be "just a little bit dyslexic". I keep seeing this thread and reading "Cut on Hitler".

Showtime100
11-13-2012, 04:45 PM
I'm really starting to wonder if it's possible to be "just a little bit dyslexic". I keep seeing this thread and reading "Cut on Hitler".

:lol:

********

To Fiddler, I'm not finding anything on a fine as of yet.

TEXANRED
11-13-2012, 04:59 PM
This. We got to see the line across the field for LOS but players can't see that. NFL has to stop these type of hits to protect all players; it is not always the person being hit that goes out with injury. The ball was long gone before Dobbins hit Cutler. Helmet to helmet, enough said.

Bringing up other plays is ridiculous imo. Dobbins deserves a fine and if he is suspended, I'll keep my mouth shut.

What play ared you guys watching? Dobbins helmet is on the right side of Cutlers shoulder and out of view on all instant replays suggesting there was no helmet to helmet hit. Cutler was running straight up towards Dobbins. What do you suggest Dobbins do? Should he have lowered his head and hit cutler in the chest and risk a broken kneck?

Dobbins did not leave his feet. Dobbins did not wrap up cutler and drive him to the ground. Dobbins did not hit him from the side or from behind. Dobbins reacted to a runner running straight at him and nothing more.

The Pencil Neck
11-13-2012, 05:09 PM
What play ared you guys watching? Dobbins helmet is on the right side of Cutlers shoulder and out of view on all instant replays suggesting there was no helmet to helmet hit. Cutler was running straight up towards Dobbins. What do you suggest Dobbins do? Should he have lowered his head and hit cutler in the chest and risk a broken kneck?

Dobbins did not leave his feet. Dobbins did not wrap up cutler and drive him to the ground. Dobbins did not hit him from the side or from behind. Dobbins reacted to a runner running straight at him and nothing more.

Yes, but that runner was a QB in the act of throwing the ball. So Dobbins should have played 2 hand touch and asked to carry Cutler's handbag while he was at it.

:clown:

Hervoyel
11-13-2012, 07:19 PM
Yes, but that runner was a QB in the act of throwing the ball. So Dobbins should have played 2 hand touch and asked to carry Cutler's handbag while he was at it.

:clown:


I don't know, the referee might think that was a little bit forward of Dobbins and still thrown a flag. Best just to avoid him entirely.

Texan_Bill
11-13-2012, 07:23 PM
Yes, but that runner was a QB in the act of throwing the ball. So Dobbins should have played 2 hand touch and asked to carry Cutler's handbag while he was at it.

:clown:

While I agree with you... I'm thinking of my childhood whenever my parents would say something like, "do you want me to wipe that smirk off your face?"... :thinking: I'm pretty sure Dobbins did that to Cutler, albeit unintentional.

PhilpW
11-13-2012, 09:28 PM
When do quarterbacks take some responsibility for these type of injuries? Never, because they are competitors just like defenders. A Cutler or RG3 are not going to slide and a linebacker is not going to back off from a QB. Dobbins was in a defensive position and Cutler had just thrown from his toes, how was Dobbins supposed to stop within 1 second and position himself as to not harm the QB? Answer: it can't be done. May as well tell the defense when the QB runs, just let him go. If he fakes a throw and runs, oh well.

gtexan02
11-13-2012, 09:35 PM
That doesn't match what he said in this article - Link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/12/texans-dobbins-nfl-shouldnt-fine-me-for-cutler-hit-he-ran-into-me/)

Heres what he said earlier:

“I felt like [the hit] was on time,” said Dobbins.

He wasn’t sure if it was his blow or one delivered by Jackson at the end of a Cutler scramble on the very next play that ultimately meant Jason Campbell would play the second half.

“I have no idea, I have no clue,” he said, before touching on the increasingly taboo topic of knocking a player from the game. “But it was good that he was out, though. I mean you always want to take the quarterback out of the game. I hit him in his chest. I did not hit him in his head. Nowhere near it. I did not touch his helmet.”

Typically Dobbins said he would look to hit a quarterback hip-high, but as Cutler was still trying to make a play, he felt going higher gave him more of a chance to “mess up the throw as well.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/66605/texans-silence-chicago-this-chicago-that

Sure sounds like he was trying to disrupt a pass

Fred
11-13-2012, 10:19 PM
All this talk of what should happen or what ought to be is missing the point. Cutler is a QUARTERBACK in the NFL, regardless of his location on the field of play, if he's running, passing, or playing tiddlywinks. If a defensive player hits a QB in the head, anyplace on the field, he's getting fined. It's really that simple. Btch, moan, groan, gripe and/or complain about it, but that is just the way it is. And it's going to get worse, not better.

So if the Jets run the wildcat, Sanchez at receiver, Tebow in the backfield, and direct snap to Greene, who's the QB? All three? What if Greene throws it? What if he hands to Tebow who runs? Why not stock your roster with Brad Smiths and Johnny Manziels and send 7 QBs onto the field every play?

This. We got to see the line across the field for LOS but players can't see that. NFL has to stop these type of hits to protect all players; it is not always the person being hit that goes out with injury. The ball was long gone before Dobbins hit Cutler. Helmet to helmet, enough said.

Bringing up other plays is ridiculous imo. Dobbins deserves a fine and if he is suspended, I'll keep my mouth shut.

If someone would make an honest argument that Dobbins should have gotten the penalty for a late hit that's fine.

What play ared you guys watching? Dobbins helmet is on the right side of Cutlers shoulder and out of view on all instant replays suggesting there was no helmet to helmet hit. Cutler was running straight up towards Dobbins. What do you suggest Dobbins do? Should he have lowered his head and hit cutler in the chest and risk a broken kneck?

Dobbins did not leave his feet. Dobbins did not wrap up cutler and drive him to the ground. Dobbins did not hit him from the side or from behind. Dobbins reacted to a runner running straight at him and nothing more.

Cutler released the ball at the 49 1/2. Contact with Dobbins was at the 48. Dobbins stopped at the 49. If Cutler was a defenseless passer standing at the 49 1/2 instead of running forward, probably no contact occurs. Yes, Dobbins took a step towards Cutler after the ball was released but Cutler also jumped into Dobbins.

eriadoc
11-13-2012, 10:31 PM
So if the Jets run the wildcat, Sanchez at receiver, Tebow in the backfield, and direct snap to Greene, who's the QB? All three? What if Greene throws it? What if he hands to Tebow who runs?

What if? Who cares? If a defensive player hits them IN THE HEAD (/Vizzini), then it's going to be a penalty. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying what ought to be, I'm saying if you hit a QB, or really any offensive player, IN THE HEAD, you're going to get a penalty and probably a fine. That's just the way the NFL is now.

TEXANRED
11-13-2012, 10:35 PM
What if? Who cares? If a defensive player hits them IN THE HEAD (/Vizzini), then it's going to be a penalty. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying what ought to be, I'm saying if you hit a QB, or really any offensive player, IN THE HEAD, you're going to get a penalty and probably a fine. That's just the way the NFL is now.
I don't believe Dobbins hit Cutler in the head. The replay show Dobbins head going to the right of Cutlers helmet. His head whips back b/c of the sudden stop. I will continue to say that until I get footage that states otherwise.

The Pencil Neck
11-13-2012, 10:37 PM
What if? Who cares? If a defensive player hits them IN THE HEAD (/Vizzini), then it's going to be a penalty. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying what ought to be, I'm saying if you hit a QB, or really any offensive player, IN THE HEAD, you're going to get a penalty and probably a fine. That's just the way the NFL is now.

Helmet to helmet contact is allowed against a running back while he's a runner. It's even allowed against a receiver if he's not defenseless at the time.

And that's where the problem with the definition comes in. According to the rules, as soon as a QB leaves the pocket, he's supposed to "stop" being a QB and he's supposed to become a runner with the option of sliding and giving himself up to keep from being hit.

If that's the case, then Dobbins should have been able to hit him just like he did without a penalty. If the pass was illegal, then he shouldn't have been a QB anymore, he should have been a runner. The fact that he passed should be his mistake, not Dobbins'.

BUT. That's not the way the rules are going to be called. QBs are always going to get the benefit of the doubt. You hit a QB high OR low at your own risk.

gtexan02
11-13-2012, 10:38 PM
I don't believe Dobbins hit Cutler in the head. The replay show Dobbins head going to the right of Cutlers helmet. His head whips back b/c of the sudden stop. I will continue to say that until I get footage that states otherwise.

Did you watch the slow motion replay after it happened? The contact seemed pretty obvious...

TEXANRED
11-13-2012, 10:41 PM
Did you watch the slow motion replay after it happened? The contact seemed pretty obvious...

I have. I have even watched it on youtube and played it frame by frame. His helmet goes to the right. Cutlers Helmet appears to snap straight back, not off to the side. This would suggest that Dobbins misses Cutlers head and the whiplash is due to the sudden stop.

ChampionTexan
11-13-2012, 11:14 PM
Even if he didn't hit him helmet to helmet:
(b)�� Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:

(1)�� Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless
player by encircling or grasping him; and
NFL RULES (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Ruhttp://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/editor/separator.gifle12_Player_Conduct.pdf)
MORE NFL RULES
LINK1 (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/11_2012_ForwardPass_BackPass_Fumble.pdf)
LINK2 (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_2012_Player_Conduct.pdf)

Rule 8 Section 1 Supplemental Note Section (Bottom of first page at linked site):
2) Roughing the passer rules apply on all passes (legal or illegal) thrown from behind the line of scrimmage (12-2-8). If a
pass is thrown from beyond the line of scrimmage, unnecessary roughness may apply for action against the passer.

Rule 12 Article 2 Section 7:
(a) Players in a defenseless posture are:
(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;

TEXANRED
11-13-2012, 11:16 PM
MORE NFL RULES (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/11_2012_ForwardPass_BackPass_Fumble.pdf)

Rule 8 Section 1 Supplemental Note Section (Bottom of first page at linked site):

May apply is the key word(s).

ChampionTexan
11-13-2012, 11:22 PM
May apply is the key word(s).

Please explain how this supports your position?

TEXANRED
11-13-2012, 11:26 PM
Please explain how this supports your position?

May apply but also may not apply. I do not believe the Dobbins hit applies to this situation.

ChampionTexan
11-13-2012, 11:33 PM
May apply but also may not apply. I do not believe the Dobbins hit applies to this situation.

Well, he was a passer, and while it's true that he was throwing an illegal pass, the rule says very specifically that unnecessary roughness may apply even if he is in front of the line of scrimmage. That's why I think it may and does apply to this situation. Please explain why you think it does not.

The Pencil Neck
11-13-2012, 11:50 PM
MORE NFL RULES
LINK1 (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/11_2012_ForwardPass_BackPass_Fumble.pdf)
LINK2 (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_2012_Player_Conduct.pdf)

Rule 8 Section 1 Supplemental Note Section (Bottom of first page at linked site):


Rule 12 Article 2 Section 7:

msr

TEXANRED
11-14-2012, 07:14 AM
Well, he was a passer, and while it's true that he was throwing an illegal pass, the rule says very specifically that unnecessary roughness may apply even if he is in front of the line of scrimmage. That's why I think it may and does apply to this situation. Please explain why you think it does not.

Negative sir. The QB became a runner the second he advanced the football. It's not Dobbins fault Cutler pussed out and try to pass the ball.

What happened to Cutler was acutlers fault.

ChampionTexan
11-14-2012, 07:39 AM
Negative sir. The QB became a runner the second he advanced the football. It's not Dobbins fault Cutler pussed out and try to pass the ball.

What happened to Cutler was acutlers fault.
The exact wording of the NFL rule:

If a pass is thrown from beyond the line of scrimmage, unnecessary roughness may apply for action against the passer.

A pass was thrown. He was beyond the line of scrimmage. I absolutely cannot comprehend how this is not an instance where this rule applies.

I'm not particularly optimistic about this, but if you don't believe rule applies to this play, please give me an example of where you believe it would apply.

2012Champs
11-14-2012, 08:27 AM
Negative sir. The QB became a runner the second he advanced the football. It's not Dobbins fault Cutler pussed out and try to pass the ball.

What happened to Cutler was acutlers fault.



You are wrong the rules clearly to match up with what you "think" should happen but that doesnt change the actual rules and how the game is called. The QB never became a runner so from the start everything you say is wrong once you make that statement

Vinny
11-14-2012, 09:35 AM
I have. I have even watched it on youtube and played it frame by frame. His helmet goes to the right. Cutlers Helmet appears to snap straight back, not off to the side. This would suggest that Dobbins misses Cutlers head and the whiplash is due to the sudden stop.
I think your keen eye needs some education on momentum perhaps. Wouldn't Cutlers head snap forward instead of backwards if Dobbins hit his body but not his head? That's what physics would suggest.

El Tejano
11-14-2012, 10:40 AM
I was thinking we'd be crying the same thing if it were Schaub that got hit like that, but Schaub doesn't run in the first place.

2012Champs
11-14-2012, 10:58 AM
I was thinking we'd be crying the same thing if it were Schaub that got hit like that, but Schaub doesn't run in the first place.



He could be in the very same spot after a bootleg and if he got lit up like Jay did most here would be crying

thunderkyss
11-14-2012, 01:28 PM
I was thinking we'd be crying the same thing if it were Schaub that got hit like that, but Schaub doesn't run in the first place.

We'd be crying that he was injury prone if he left the game after that. Well, tough to have finished out the half, but injury prone

HOU-TEX
11-14-2012, 01:38 PM
Welp!

Adam Schefter‏@AdamSchefter

NFL fined Texans LB Tim Dobbins $30,000 for hitting Jay Cutler - even though Dobbins claimed Cutler ran into him.

drs23
11-15-2012, 10:28 AM
I think your keen eye needs some education on momentum perhaps. Wouldn't Cutlers head snap forward instead of backwards if Dobbins hit his body but not his head? That's what physics would suggest.

Hmmm. Did Dobbins by chance leap out of a grassy knoll before the said impact causing the head to snap forward instead of back? :thinking:

Dread-Head
11-15-2012, 10:37 AM
That 30K fine is BUUUUUUULL I$HT! Goddell and Cutler need to grow some stones.