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View Full Version : What are we gonna do with Banks & Ragone?


TexansNeedRBin05
06-06-2005, 12:04 PM
Maybe since the Browns have NO QB we could give Banks for that Linemen that wants out.

texasguy346
06-06-2005, 12:10 PM
If you mean Verba then no thanks. Besides the Browns have an experienced NFL QB in Dilfer. They don't really need another aging veteran QB on their roster. Plus they have their young rookie QB in Charlie Frye. I doubt they'd want Banks.

MojoMan
06-06-2005, 12:42 PM
A better way to deal with this question is to ask "What happens to BJ Symons?"

If Ragone beats out Banks for the #2 spot, which he should have every opportunity to do, then the question left is who is #3. BJ Symons is not eligible for the practice squad, and it seems very unlikely that the Texans carry four quarterbacks without one of the four being on the practice squad.

Do the Texans want to make a long-term commitment to BJ Symons at the expense of waiving Tony Banks? That seems ulikely to me. Banks is actually a very good backup quarterback. Symons was the product of a pass-happy, run and shoot type offense at Texas Tech. His suitabilty to captain an NFL offense is uncertain at best. He has no NFL experience. His performance in the NFL Europe was not worthy of note.

The guy I continue to wonder about is Chance Mock. Last I heard, he was trying out to make the Texans team, but had not been offered a contract. We have not heard a lot about him in the last few weeks. Granted, with low-contact types of drills being conducted in the coaching sessions, and having two QB's overseas playing in NFL Europe, it seems smart to wait before making a decision here. However, if it had not been for Vince Young starting at UT last year, Chance would have been the starting QB at Texas. His performance prior to last year was very strong. Stronger than BJ Symons, in my opinion. Also, as a first year player in the NFL, Chance would be eligible to be on the practice squad this season. Maybe we should give Chance a chance.

Otherwise, I suspect we go into the regular season with:

1. David Carr
2. Dave Ragone
3. Tony Banks
4. Waived - BJ Symons.

If Chance looks like he has the makings of an NFL QB, then it would be very exciting to see the Texans carry him on the practice squad as the #4 QB.

wrestler4life
06-06-2005, 12:50 PM
Why can't Symons be on the practice squad?

MojoMan
06-06-2005, 12:54 PM
Symons was on the practice squad last year. A players's eligibility to be on the practice squad is limited to their first year in the league.

infantrycak
06-06-2005, 12:56 PM
BJ Symons is not eligible for the practice squad,

BJ was not on the active roster for 9 or more games last year so he is still eligible for the practice squad this year. Eligibility is not limited to the 1st year in the league. You can't have an accrued season in the league.

El Tejano
06-06-2005, 12:59 PM
I think you gotta let BJ go. Banks has proven himself to this team, and if he gets beat out of #2 he will only be with our club for 1 year anyhow. You can always find a 3rd string QB in the off season.

MojoMan
06-06-2005, 01:12 PM
BJ was not on the active roster for 9 or more games last year so he is still eligible for the practice squad this year. Eligibility is not limited to the 1st year in the league. You can't have an accrued season in the league.

I had forgotten that BJ Symons had spent most of last year on injured reserve. If he has not been on the team for a year, according to league rules, then I guess he would still technically be a rookie. I stand corrected. Thanks for your insight.

In any case, the question still stands about whether the Texans want to make a long-term commitment to BJ Symons. I believe this is an open issue, and I would not be the tiniest bit surprised to see BJ Symons waived and Chance Mock make the team as the #4 QB.

keyfro
06-06-2005, 01:15 PM
i think you are mistaken i think bj with his torn acl last season was placed on the pup list then put on the ir list...i don't think he was ever on the practice squad...i might be wrong but why would the texans put a guy on the practice squad who wasn't able to do any running

keyfro
06-06-2005, 01:17 PM
as for chance mock...the guy got the shaft in college...but you can't give him too much of a chance if he couldn't beat out vince young and then refused to go to a DII school to get some playing time...the guy could have easily transfered to SFA or Texas State like dustin long did and started for a year...so as much as i wish him the best he did nothing this past year to help himself

wrestler4life
06-06-2005, 01:26 PM
If we can trade him rather than release him, that would be nice.

U4ikrob
06-06-2005, 01:31 PM
A better way to deal .....
Otherwise, I suspect we go into the regular season with:

1. David Carr
2. Dave Ragone
3. Tony Banks
4. Waived - BJ Symons.

If Chance looks like he has the makings of an NFL QB, then it would be very exciting to see the Texans carry him on the practice squad as the #4 QB.

Lots of good stuff in there - Allthough i'll play GM Charlie for a minute and say for the sake of arguement - Ragone plays well and wins the MVP and World Bowl w/the Thunder. After a few weeks I see what buzz is around about the league and needs at QB. I figure Charlie's phone to be ringing at least with some iniital inquiry stuff about Ragone and maybe even some trade talk. I'm willing to bet most teams have scouts and other guys watchign the NFLE and if a guy lights it up and wins the MVP and Wolrd Bowl, it at least makes a little noise enough to get interest in the player. IMO I would try to trade Ragone - strike while his name[the iron] is hot so to speak and see what kind of deals can be made. Ragone has shown he has skills and can compete really well and can still put up the numbers. Showed good poise and decisions in the pocket enough to have a 90+ passer rating for a majority of the season. IMO he's played good enough he could challenge for starting time on another team without a solid starter. IF nothing decent pans out now - teams that have a bad year or who are looking to build with a new QB would certainly be prospects for the off-season to make a deal with.

I would keep Banks a guy who knows my playbook and has stepped in as a proven back-up QB. Banks Salary is manageable and he is a servicebale journeyman back-up we allready have signed for the year. I keep Symons and see if he can develop into the #2 guy with another year in NFLE and maybe a few starting minutes this next year. IF it doesnt pan out I cut him next year. I would also bring in Chance to the practice squad and develop him thru the same system. Try to keep developing QB's and bringing in undrafted talent to use for the future thru NFLE. Build a system of raport with the NFLE anduse it as a minor league system to train players to use for trades and building a QB stable for use in the future.

My Depth chart would look more like this

1. David Carr
2. Tony Banks
3. BJ Symons
-PS- Chance Mock

*Dave Ragone - traded for Starting player or Draft pick[s] for next year.

rittenhouserobz
06-06-2005, 01:32 PM
I think that the Texans QB situation is ideal. Ragone is the key factor here. If he performs well in the world Bowl, then we may trade him for a 2nd or 1st round pick. That makes room for Symons in the 3rd spot and Chance Mock on the practive squad. If Ragone stays this year, then the Texans will have to make some tough decisions. Either way I don't see Banks playing to much longer and Ragone playing backup to Carr.

texanfan2002114
06-06-2005, 01:33 PM
When the Texans drafted Ragone, they drafted him to trade him and that might happen this offseason while his value is high. Banks will be #2 and Symons #3.

gcolby
06-06-2005, 02:18 PM
The elimination of practice squads for the year IS on the table this year. The concept and workings of 'practice squads' are actually dealt with on a year-by-year basis, and I was suprised to see that the owners actually want to nuke them for some arcane reason I cannot remember right now. Must be in work mode or something...

MojoMan
06-06-2005, 02:20 PM
I think we keep Ragone for one more year. Remember Danny Weurffel. He was a standout in the NFL Europe, and never could make it as a starter in the NFL. What teams would be interested in Ragone this year for at least a second round pick?

dalemurphy
06-06-2005, 04:01 PM
When the Texans drafted Ragone, they drafted him to trade him and that might happen this offseason while his value is high. Banks will be #2 and Symons #3.

We'll never get good trade value for Ragone until he proves his ability to play in the NFL. Until then, if the coaches believe him to be a good QB, he should be kept as the #2.

TexansTrueFan
06-06-2005, 06:24 PM
We'll never get good trade value for Ragone until he proves his ability to play in the NFL. Until then, if the coaches believe him to be a good QB, he should be kept as the #2.


we may not get 1st or 2nd round picks for ragone, but he has proven he can play and be a leader playing in NFLE. So we could get a 3rd or 4th round pick for him, i would still rather banks come in if Carr goes down though.

U4ikrob
06-06-2005, 06:39 PM
We'll never get good trade value for Ragone until he proves his ability to play in the NFL. Until then, if the coaches believe him to be a good QB, he should be kept as the #2.

I dunno - I'm of the opinion - you Never say never -

Ragone was drafted as a third rounder - I think he has shown not only to be worth that pick, but a whole lot better. His stats, passer rating, and wins with Berlin have shown him to be a good QB - IMO not just a second stringer.

He's third string on the Texans because we have so much talent available at that position. IF Ragone were on another team that was rebuilding, I think he would be a great QB to start with. He has shown himself to be a proffessional, skilled, versatile and still able to put up awesome numbers enough to be considered the MVP of the league and is leading Berlin to the World Bowl.

Granted it's not the Super Bowl - but we dont have any QB thats made it to one of those yet.

Granted the NFLE is not the cream of competition - but it's all NFL talent and he put up an awesoem display of QB over the season. His passer rating, completion percentage and TD's to Int ratio blows most other QB's out of the water. Heck his stats are better than David's are just for comparison sake.

IMO He cant exactly prove his way in the NFL without an opportunity. His opportunities to play here in Houston have been very very limited at best and will not improve with Banks here. I honestly hope we trade him to a team he can compete for a job at rather than just holding a clipboard. IMO think we will trade him if possible and will look to get at least a High second or late first or maybe a late second and third pick.

But - if we cant trade him off - look for us to try and move him before off-season next year to a team with a QB need.

hadaad
06-06-2005, 06:40 PM
Didn't we give up a 3rd for Ragone? Why would we trade him, especially after he's gained experience, for the same round we drafted him in? Kinda makes it silly to have drafted him at all, doesn't it?

I don't think they have plans on sending Ragone away at all. If anything, Banks could be the one on the outs, since his veteran leadership is needed less and less, the more that Carr plays (and slips into "veteranhood"). I think that coming into camp, Ragone is going to have every chance to prove that he belongs as a #2 in Houston and that Banks will have to do something very special to unseat him. As well, I think that, if Banks DOES lose the position battle, the chances will be very high that he will be cut loose, with BJ Symons as the 3rd QB.

BornOrange
06-06-2005, 06:47 PM
dalemurphy is right.

Ragone isn't going to be worth trading until he does something on the NFL level. Right now his greatest value to the Texans is as a potential backup to David Carr in case of injury. Let him compete with Banks for the #2 job in training camp and the preseason. If Ragone looks good and some team gets into an emergency situation and wants to give up a #2 or better then trade Ragone.

However, remember that a good backup QB is extremely important for a team that has playoff hopes. Also, teams sometimes need to use their third string QB if the backup also goes down. The Texans were in that situation in the 2003 season when Ragone had to come in as a rookie and start two games.

If someone gets desperate and pays the Texans price for Ragone, I hope the Texans find someone with some experience to be the #3 QB. I would hate for Symons to be the #3 with a playoff spot on the line.

BornOrange
06-06-2005, 06:53 PM
IMO think we will trade him if possible and will look to get at least a High second or late first or maybe a late second and third pick.
There is no way another team will give up a first or second rounder for Ragone based on his performance in NFL Europe. He needs to show something against NFL competition to attract that kind attention.

swtbound07
06-06-2005, 07:04 PM
never say never....i remember some people saying we would never get anything higher than a 7th rounder if that for drew henson.....if he can pull a 1st rounder out of ragone then by all means ship him off......who has a history of dumb trades...miami maybe? somebody convince them that dave ragone is an anagram of ricky williams and we might hit 2 first rounders. who would you rather have....dave ragone, or aj feely?

TexansTrueFan
06-06-2005, 07:25 PM
never say never....i remember some people saying we would never get anything higher than a 7th rounder if that for drew henson.....if he can pull a 1st rounder out of ragone then by all means ship him off......who has a history of dumb trades...miami maybe? somebody convince them that dave ragone is an anagram of ricky williams and we might hit 2 first rounders. who would you rather have....dave ragone, or aj feely?


yeah ur right just cause a guy hasnt shown much doesnt mean anything, Drew Henson didnt show ANYTHING. If a team thinks a guy can help their team regardless of who he is a team will go after him. And he has shown some good stuff over in NFLE i say we could get a 3rd rounder for him MAYBE a late 2nd.

BornOrange
06-06-2005, 07:34 PM
as for chance mock...the guy got the shaft in college...but you can't give him too much of a chance if he couldn't beat out vince young and then refused to go to a DII school to get some playing time...the guy could have easily transfered to SFA or Texas State like dustin long did and started for a year...so as much as i wish him the best he did nothing this past year to help himself
Chance Mock showed leadership and team loyalty by staying at Texas. If he had transferred, Texas would have been left without a backup for Vince Young. In the end, Mock sacrificed individual recognition for his teammates and coaches. There are 32 NFL coaching staffs and front offices who are impressed by that kind of attitude when they are considering a potential backup quarterback.

"...he did nothing this past year to help himself"
Yeah....Sure....Right....Uh huh....

There are many influential alums of The University of Texas who have long memories.

There are many more UT football fans who have long memories.

Chance Mock will never have a problem finding a job or a free drink in the state of Texas.

MojoMan
06-06-2005, 08:01 PM
Chance Mock showed leadership and team loyalty by staying at Texas. If he had transferred, Texas would have been left without a backup for Vince Young. In the end, Mock sacrificed individual recognition for his teammates and coaches. There are 32 NFL coaching staffs and front offices who are impressed by that kind of attitude when they are considering a potential backup quarterback.

"...he did nothing this past year to help himself"
Yeah....Sure....Right....Uh huh....

There are many influential alums of The University of Texas who have long memories.

There are many more UT football fans who have long memories.

Chance Mock will never have a problem finding a job or a free drink in the state of Texas.


I would be honored to buy Chance Mock a drink.

Also, I hope he gets a contract offer from the Texans by the time they break camp.

keyfro
06-06-2005, 08:07 PM
that maybe but what does any of that have to do with him playing football nothing...you think the aggie fans hate dustin long for leaving to go to sam houston to try and extend his career...heck no that's just silly...to say that he had some sort of obligation to UT to stay on as a back up his senior year is silly...by staying to be a back up to vince young tells me he was afraid of going some place new with out having benson to hand the ball off to...i understand that has a UT alum you have a warm spot for the kid and that's great but look at it from a football point of view and it looks like he didn't want to play...as for the Texan point of view on quarterbacks...i see ragone coming in as our #2 QB...i think banks maybe have ran his course out here...symons should be our #3 so we can continue to develop him when the time comes to trade ragone

MojoMan
06-06-2005, 08:16 PM
I am not sure if I missed the news, but did Dustin Long sign on with anyone this year?

cuppacoffee
06-06-2005, 09:20 PM
The elimination of practice squads for the year IS on the table this year. The concept and workings of 'practice squads' are actually dealt with on a year-by-year basis, and I was suprised to see that the owners actually want to nuke them for some arcane reason I cannot remember right now. Must be in work mode or something...

Its time for a new cba between players and owners. :howdy:
Practice squads are being used as a bargaining chip so to speak. :fishing:
Union stands to lose about 280 dues paying members if owners eliminate practice squads.

cac: :coffee:

TexansTrueFan
06-07-2005, 12:31 AM
I am not sure if I missed the news, but did Dustin Long sign on with anyone this year?


i was talking to Alex a Sam offensive linemen the other day and he said that 3 Sam players signed with teams as undrafted free agents, Mathney went to i think he said green bay, and i dunno where he said Dustin Long went, but yes he is with a team.

BornOrange
06-07-2005, 01:24 AM
that maybe but what does any of that have to do with him playing football nothing...you think the aggie fans hate dustin long for leaving to go to sam houston to try and extend his career...heck no that's just silly...to say that he had some sort of obligation to UT to stay on as a back up his senior year is silly...by staying to be a back up to vince young tells me he was afraid of going some place new with out having benson to hand the ball off to...i understand that has a UT alum you have a warm spot for the kid and that's great but look at it from a football point of view and it looks like he didn't want to play...as for the Texan point of view on quarterbacks...i see ragone coming in as our #2 QB...i think banks maybe have ran his course out here...symons should be our #3 so we can continue to develop him when the time comes to trade ragone

Who knows (or cares) about what aggies think
Chance loves The University of Texas and decided that he would rather be the #2 QB on a team that was in competition for the national championship than the starter at a Division 2 school
As the backup at Texas, Mock knew that he was one injury away from being the starter on a highly ranked team
The best players don't back away from competition
Symons won't be the #3 QB this year, especially if the Texans are thinking of trading Ragone

BornOrange
06-07-2005, 01:50 AM
i was talking to Alex a Sam offensive linemen the other day and he said that 3 Sam players signed with teams as undrafted free agents, Mathney went to i think he said green bay, and i dunno where he said Dustin Long went, but yes he is with a team.
Dustin Long had a tryout with the Cowboys, but he has not been signed to a contract.

Division 1AA players who have signed or had tryouts (http://www.i-aa.org/article_print.asp?articleid=69434)

Ourlads depth charts and player search (http://www.ourlads.com/secure/index.cfm)

U4ikrob
06-07-2005, 08:55 AM
There is no way another team will give up a first or second rounder for Ragone based on his performance in NFL Europe. He needs to show something against NFL competition to attract that kind attention.

I allready covered this one above - as I said there - He cant really do that without opportunity. Opportunity he will rarely if ever get if on this team as we are set at QB for a starter. His stats over the course of the whole season speak about how he competes with NFL talent. Granted it's not against the Best NFL Talent but it is against NFL quality of players. And it would be one thing if he just went over there and did ok - and won half his games and played lack-luster ball. But he played awesome - lit up the league with MVP numbers and percentages better than Carr's along with a much better Passer rating and TD/int ratio. Yet you and alot of people on this board seem to be busting this guys balls for doing well when "Given an opportunity to play" IMO He's never going to have that opportunity to start here with David Carr in the driver's seat allready unless he gets hurt. Of course with the O-line we have thats not necessarily something that might not happen, but thats another topic. IMO think he's played well enough he should merit at least a decent draft pick and has certainly increased his value above his draft status. With 2 years exp, an MVP season and world bowl NFLE title game, I think hes primed for any team who needs a new QB to start with and would be a good QB to bring in for competition to any team. He could be a starter on a few teams in this league if he were there. Honestly I think he's a starter and just needs playtime to prove it.

It boggles my mind that you think he's barely worth the Third round he was drafted in? Honestly whats he got to do to prove more that he can play in this league without being the starter? :dangit:

BornOrange
06-07-2005, 09:24 AM
It boggles my mind that you and TexansTrueFan think he's barely worth the Third round he was drafted in and maybe a late second round? Honestly whats he got to do to prove more that he can play in this league without being the starter?
That is exactly the point. He is going to have to step in and be the starter for a game or two while Carr is injured for teams to see what he can do against NFL competition. Maybe an impressive showing during the preseason will be sufficient, but it will probably take regular season snaps.

MojoMan
06-07-2005, 09:34 AM
If he is not worth at least a second round pick, then we should keep as the long-term back up.

If we trade him for a third, then we just spent three years bringing him along for a ZERO return on investment. That was the idea initially stated for drafting Ragone in the third round - to develop him and then trade him for a higher round pick.

Actually, with the time value of money taken into account, trading Ragone for a third round pick at this stage would be a NEGATIVE return on investment. Usually, during the draft, you can usually trade a pick in the current year in a certain round for a pick one round higher the next year. This was apparently the rational for the Drew Henson pick. We used a sixth round pick to draft him initially, and three years later, we obtained a third round pick for him.

Also, Ragone know the Texans system, and after his performance in the NFL Eurpoe, he will now be a "fan favorite." Heck, it is just a matter of time before some knuclehead starts calling for Ragone to replace Carr. You all know the old adage - The backup QB is the most popular man in town. I expect that Carr will play great. But if he ever has as many as two medicre games in a row, (and sooner or later he will) the calls will begin. You watch and see. If you remember two years ago when Caar was injured, there were a number of people on this board suggesting that Banks should permanently replace Carr. Remember the Houston Oiler fans calling for the promotion of Bucky Richardson? This is going to be a lot of fun, albeit all too predictable.

JDizzle
06-07-2005, 09:42 AM
Cut Banks and Ragone, bring in Bucky Richardson. He throws right and left handed.

edo783
06-07-2005, 09:45 AM
That is exactly the point. He is going to have to step in and be the starter for a game or two while Carr is injured for teams to see what he can do against NFL competition. Maybe an impressive showing during the preseason will be sufficient, but it will probably take regular season snaps.

And yet, teams draft QBs out of college with ZERO NFL experience, give up 1st round picks and start them. Rags was concidered a late 1st early second round pick until his senior year when his whole team was crap. What would you rather have, some snott nosed kid fresh out of college NO NFL experience or a guy that has been to NFL camps, learned an NFL scheme and shown he can play very well at near true NFL competition? My bet would be the guy with the NFL experience. So, for a team to spend a 1st on Rags would make much more sense than to do so on the latest college phenome who MIGHT work out. If we can't get a high second for him as MINIMUM we should not trade him. We spent a three and did the development work.

BornOrange
06-07-2005, 09:56 AM
What I find so puzzling is why everyone is so eager to trade Ragone right now. Even if the Texans had the best offensive line in the league, Carr is always one hit away from being out for the season. Anyone who has watched the NFL for more than a couple of games knows that backup QB's are extremely valuable.

What would happen if the Texans trade Ragone and then Carr goes down with an injury? And then Banks? With a playoff spot on the line? Remember how bad Ragone looked his rookie year? That would be what Symons would look like this year.

I say keep Ragone at least until he becomes a restricted free agent. Then we can find out how much interest other teams have in him and if he gets a huge offer we could get a first rounder for him.

MojoMan
06-07-2005, 10:07 AM
1. David Carr
2. Dave Ragone
3. Tony Banks
4. Chance Mock (Practice Squad)

As an item of note, the second stringer should be expected to play next year. Hopefully, the third and fourth team QB's will not play. However, as we have already seen, anything is possble.

rittenhouserobz
06-07-2005, 10:09 AM
How would we get a 1st rounder in RFA? I thought teams were only required to compensate based on the player's round in the draft? If we match another teams offer, then we have to sign him to a signing bonus. After that, we trade him and take the signing bonus as a cap hit? So if we could get a 1st or 2nd rounder without a cap hit then wouldn't that be better? I am really lost on how a Ragone trade would affect the cap and what picks we would get for compensation for different levels of offers in RFA. I could use a little light here. :confused:

infantrycak
06-07-2005, 10:31 AM
How would we get a 1st rounder in RFA? I thought teams were only required to compensate based on the player's round in the draft? If we match another teams offer, then we have to sign him to a signing bonus. After that, we trade him and take the signing bonus as a cap hit? So if we could get a 1st or 2nd rounder without a cap hit then wouldn't that be better? I am really lost on how a Ragone trade would affect the cap and what picks we would get for compensation for different levels of offers in RFA. I could use a little light here. :confused:

RFA's receive compensation based on the tender they receive from their team. All offers carry the option of the current team to match another team's offer and retain the player. If an offer is not matched, a player to whom a low tender has been made will bring compensation of a draft pick from their original draft round, mid tender gets a 1st round pick and high tender gets 1st and 3rd round picks. Prior to becoming a RFA, i.e. while still under contract to the Texans, the RFA rules don't apply and the Texans can work out whatever deal they want with another team.

BornOrange
06-07-2005, 10:43 AM
How would we get a 1st rounder in RFA? I thought teams were only required to compensate based on the player's round in the draft? If we match another teams offer, then we have to sign him to a signing bonus. After that, we trade him and take the signing bonus as a cap hit? So if we could get a 1st or 2nd rounder without a cap hit then wouldn't that be better? I am really lost on how a Ragone trade would affect the cap and what picks we would get for compensation for different levels of offers in RFA. I could use a little light here. :confused:
To be able to keep one of your restricted free agents you have to make an initial offer. There are four different levels of initial offers.
1. Right of first refusal (ROFR) - If you match another teams offer, you keep the player
2. ROFR + original draft round - If you don't match, you get a pick in the same round you drafted your RFA
3. ROFR + first round pick - If you don't match, you get their first round pick
4. ROFR + first round and third round picks - If you don't match, you get their first round and third round pick

Jakebrake
06-07-2005, 01:07 PM
He's in a league that has 6 teams and Blitzing is illeagal. Sorry but Ragone inst even a decent backup. The line up will be be:

Carr
Banks
Parsons

The Coaching staff is high on Preston Parsons. He's looked really good in practice and has the prototypical QB body and a serious gun for an arm. Wish the Seahawks wouldhave picked him up. Hey, wanna trade? you can have Seneca Wallace! :)

infantrycak
06-07-2005, 01:16 PM
To be able to keep one of your restricted free agents you have to make an initial offer. There are four different levels of initial offers.


There are only three different levels of offers--low, mid and high. You don't get a right of first refusal without making one of those three.

DRIFTAWAY
06-08-2005, 12:13 AM
This is what i would do. Just see what kind of offers you get for Ragone right now, if you get a 1rst or 2nd you jump all over it. Let's say a team like the Browns or 49er's offer a 3rd round pick, (which is projected to be high), then you consider it. If no ideal trade appears you keep him on and let him and Tony Banks battle it out for the #2 spot. Meanwhile you cut B.J. only if you trade Ragone and don't offer Mock a contract. Then I'd keep the phone lines open for more trade proposals for Ragone during the season as well, and during next year's draft.

If a trade works out
1. Carr
2. Banks
3. Symons
PS- Preston Parsons
( and we have a good extra draft pick)

If no trade
1. Carr
2. Ragone/Banks( battle for #2 spot)
3. Ragone/Banks(whoever loses the battle)
PS- Preston Parsons

THEFUTURE
06-08-2005, 03:54 PM
Dave Ragone will see his stock rise after if he is named NFLE MVP, and if he has a good showing at the World Bowl. so i propose trading him... there are teams that could use him, and he could actually start for....
- Miami Dolphins- AJ Feeley was brought in last year, and Gus Ferotte (sp?) is there, but Feeley was a Dave Wannsted(sp?) guy, and he was also brought in by the old GM, but with a new coach, and a new GM..Feeley isnt sitting so pretty anymore, Ferotte has a chance to take the starting spot, and he isnt that good... I think Houston could get a good deal for Ragone to the Dolphins, and Ragone would have a more legit shot of being a starter there.
-AZ Cardinals- After Kurt Warner, who i have no faith in, there is not much talent there, thus the rotating quarterback situation they had last year.
-SF Niners- Alex Smith is the starter, but i wouldn't mind having Ragone as a good #2, he is better than Rattay or Dorsey.
-Carolina Panthers- Jake Delhomme, and then you got nothin... i might be wrong but isnt Jake getting up there in years?

Just a thought

dalemurphy
06-08-2005, 04:27 PM
-SF Niners- Alex Smith is the starter, but i wouldn't mind having Ragone as a good #2, he is better than Rattay or Dorsey.
-Carolina Panthers- Jake Delhomme, and then you got nothin... i might be wrong but isnt Jake getting up there in years?

Just a thought


Teams don't give a way 1st or 2nd round picks to get a backup QB. Conceivably someone will take a shot at Ragone as a starter but nobody will be throwing high draft picks at the Texans for a guy with an NFL passer rating around 50.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
06-08-2005, 05:12 PM
Trade banks, let Ragone play back up and use the extra money to fund " a free beer" during fan appreciation night! :drool:

THEFUTURE
06-09-2005, 03:29 AM
Teams don't give a way 1st or 2nd round picks to get a backup QB. Conceivably someone will take a shot at Ragone as a starter but nobody will be throwing high draft picks at the Texans for a guy with an NFL passer rating around 50.
i didnt say anything about a first round or second round pick any where in my statement, i would conceive probably either a late round 2nd, but none of the teams i list will likely have a late pick, or a 3rd rounder, which basically means we didnt lose much, since ragone was our 3rd round choice

rittenhouserobz
06-09-2005, 06:45 AM
I still remember all the people saying that we would never get higher than a 5th round pick for Henson. If the Dolphins are positively terrible by week 4 with no hope in sight, then I think they might risk a 2nd round pick on a guy with a winning attitude. I think once Ragone is given a real chance he will excel at the position.

U4ikrob
06-09-2005, 11:28 AM
What I find so puzzling is why everyone is so eager to trade Ragone right now. Even if the Texans had the best offensive line in the league, Carr is always one hit away from being out for the season. Anyone who has watched the NFL for more than a couple of games knows that backup QB's are extremely valuable.

What would happen if the Texans trade Ragone and then Carr goes down with an injury? And then Banks? With a playoff spot on the line? Remember how bad Ragone looked his rookie year? That would be what Symons would look like this year.

I say keep Ragone at least until he becomes a restricted free agent. Then we can find out how much interest other teams have in him and if he gets a huge offer we could get a first rounder for him.

As I stated at the beginning of this topic when I suggested the trade idea - "Strike while the iron is hot" is the reasoning. He has a good name, has put up starting quality stats for a QB against NFL level of talent. That's starting quality enough for me and much better than any - unproven college talent out there. IMO The NFLE experience has very little gameplay differences than the NFL - only the level of talent and competition. He's shown his skillz, MVP talent and thus why I am hot to trade him while he is a hot commodity.

Honestly I dont see why fans and folks around here devalue him so much and think he's not even worth the third rounder he was originally picked for. I have a hard time rationalizing that sense of value. To me hes shown alot better valeu than that and will only improve given playtime. Unfortuantely without trading him elsewhere - I dont think he will get it anytime soon. Banks is our #2 - expereinced, knows the playbook and is low cost value. A #2 QB thru and thru. He's had mutlitple chances to start for other teams. Ragone - needs to go elsewhere to get those same chances for himself is my point. - I think we could get value out of the deal, help him and help our team too.

As for CArr goign down and insurance policies - We have banks, and Symons and Mock and the new guy too. Plenty of depth and if we are down to our 3rd QB and going to the playoffs - and your expecting that 3rd string guy to lead the team to the playoffs - your fooling yourself IMO. He's there as insurance in case we need to get thru a game. A quick fix - not a long term one IMO. IF were down to our 3rd QB because the other 2 are injured - I think i'm pointing my fingers at other places [O-line] for blame than a 3rd string QB.

ojthecat
06-09-2005, 11:42 AM
Honestly I dont see why fans and folks around here devalue him so much and think he's not even worth the third rounder he was originally picked for. I have a hard time rationalizing those folks sense of value

I would agree that his value is up from the 3rd where we selected him. The only question to his value is with the length of his contract. Teams would be relcutant to pay a first unless they know that a deal could be reached for x numbers of years. That said I beleive that his best value to the Texans is as a number 2 for Carr. Understanding that you can never have enough quality QB's

keyfro
06-09-2005, 12:21 PM
i think a lot of ya'll are getting too far ahead here...remember last year there was the same talk about rohan davey who led berlin to a world bowl championship and nfle mvp...where is he now...still in new england and he might not even be the #2 QB on the depth chart with them bringing in flutie i believe...i believe the partiots were willing to listen to offers for him but the highest was a 5th round pick...so don't get too excited

dalemurphy
06-09-2005, 12:51 PM
i think a lot of ya'll are getting too far ahead here...remember last year there was the same talk about rohan davey who led berlin to a world bowl championship and nfle mvp...where is he now...still in new england and he might not even be the #2 QB on the depth chart with them bringing in flutie i believe...i believe the partiots were willing to listen to offers for him but the highest was a 5th round pick...so don't get too excited

Keyfro's right. As Texan fans we should be very encouraged by Ragone's play. However, teams don't trade away high draft picks for QBs with zero successful experience in the NFL. I think he'll eventually prove to be valuable to us. At some point he's going to play and I think he'll do very well. No way we get anything above a 3rd round pick for him until then, though.

U4ikrob
06-09-2005, 03:10 PM
DaleMurphy - Honestly man- what does it take to impress you ?? Sheesh - The guy wins MVP has a 97.5 passer rating and thru 13 tds - to only 2 picks out of 245 attempts. David Carr has not even come close to putting up comparable numbers, yet you thik this guy still isnt worth more than the third rounder we picked him with???

My hunch is he will have to go to another team before you see that happen - he will never see starting time here if at all possible. Banks is our backup and will remain so for a while IMO. He's good at that role and has no trade appeal [See off-season]. Ragone on the other hand I think has the starter qualities and is young enough and would be a good financial signign by any team as he's not in RFA until next year. But if we wait too long [06] we loose him and he can just leave go wherever he wants to play. His numbers speak for themselves now and are on display for all teams and GM's to see. We wil lsee if the phone starts ringing who was right and wrong just like the O-line debates and other topics on the board. :pigfly:

It's just part of the juices flowing during the off-season that makes the Real thing that much fun. :drool:

I found this part of the Chronicle article on him interesting

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3210896

Hold the one-liners
If you're laughing, stop. If you're about to make level-of-competition wisecracks, save them. If you think NFL Europe is a joke, consider some of its alumni.

Super Bowl quarterbacks Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson and Jake Delhomme cut their teeth in NFL Europe. Quarterback Jon Kitna, receivers Matthew Hatchette and Dane Looker and return specialist Dante Hall are former NFL Europe stars.

"Coming over here, I knew I wasn't playing the highest NFL-caliber (competition), but that wasn't a big concern for me," said Ragone, speaking by phone from Germany. "It was more about being able to prove to myself that I could lead a team to win.

"It's not the Super Bowl, but any time you're playing for a championship, I don't care if it's pool, golf or tennis, it can only help you down the road."

...............At some point, Texans general manager Charley Casserly will get a call from another GM hoping to uncover the next Warner, Johnson or Delhomme. Or teams could just wait. Ragone will be a restricted free agent after this season and an unrestricted free agent after 2006.

Texas_Thrill
06-10-2005, 03:35 PM
Texans I"m wondering with Ragone having such a good season there in NFLE and possibly holding the #2 job this season if some teams might consider him a future starter in the league. Obviously not with us so what kind of pick do you guys think we could get for him? :fishing:

TexanExile
06-11-2005, 03:25 PM
I'm just not inclined to deal a QB away as soon as he proves he can contribute something. I agree with the comparison to Rohan Davey, by the way. The Texans wouldn't get much for Ragone based on his minor-league season performance, even though it was great. But I think he's come a long way and should challenge for the #2 job. If so, that's fantastic.

Dave Ragone is worth more to the Texans as a backup QB right now than as tradebait--especially considering the tendency of the entrenched starter to be treated like a pinata throughout the season.

bingbing
06-11-2005, 04:13 PM
He's in a league that has 6 teams and Blitzing is illeagal. Sorry but Ragone inst even a decent backup. The line up will be be:

Carr
Banks
Parsons

The Coaching staff is high on Preston Parsons. He's looked really good in practice and has the prototypical QB body and a serious gun for an arm. Wish the Seahawks wouldhave picked him up. Hey, wanna trade? you can have Seneca Wallace! :)


He just broke nearly every record in NFLE history putting up better #'s than Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, and Jake Delhomme....hmmmm.....haven't all three of those QB's PLAYED IN THE SUPER BOWL?????? You're right though, obviously he is a scrub if he had better success than 3 Super Bowl QB's.

:dontknowa

BornOrange
06-12-2005, 12:41 AM
There are only three different levels of offers--low, mid and high. You don't get a right of first refusal without making one of those three.
The collective bargaining agreement specifies four levels.

The dollar figures have changed over the years, but there haven't been any amendments to change the section on restricted free agents.

If a team makes the lowest qualifying offer and it isn't 110% of the prior contract, the team maintains right of first refusal but doesn't get any compensation if they don't match another team's offer.

Collective Bargaining Agreement (http://www.nflpa.org/Members/main.asp?subPage=CBA+Complete#art19)

Section 2. Restricted Free Agents:

(a) Any Veteran player with three or more Accrued Seasons, but less than five Accrued Seasons (or less than four Accrued Seasons in any Capped Year), shall, at the expiration of his last Player Contract during such period, become a Restricted Free Agent. Any such player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any such player, subject to the restrictions set forth in this Article.

(b) In order to receive the following specified Rights of First Refusal and/or Draft Choice Compensation with respect to a Restricted Free Agent, the Prior Club of a Restricted Free Agent must tender the player a Qualifying Offer on or before the first date of the Restricted Free Agent Signing Period, as follows:

(i) For Restricted Free Agents with three Accrued Seasons:

(1) Right of First Refusal: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least $275,000;

(2) Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at Player’s Original Draft Round: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $275,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged (this subsection is subject to the rules of subsection (c) below);

(3) Right of First Refusal and One First Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $600,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged;

(4) Right of First Refusal, One First Round Draft Selection, and One Third Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $800,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged;

(ii) For Restricted Free Agents with four Accrued Seasons (in Uncapped Years):

(1) Right of First Refusal: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least $325,000;

(2) Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at Player’s Original Draft Round: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $325,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged (this subsection is subject to the rules of subsection (c) below);

(3) Right of First Refusal and One First Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $700,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged; and

(4) Right of First Refusal, One First Round Draft Selection, and One Third Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) $900,000, or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged.

ArlingtonTexan
06-12-2005, 09:50 AM
He just broke nearly every record in NFLE history putting up better #'s than Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, and Jake Delhomme....hmmmm.....haven't all three of those QB's PLAYED IN THE SUPER BOWL?????? You're right though, obviously he is a scrub if he had better success than 3 Super Bowl QB's.

:dontknowa

Those guys all had to take some funky routes to get to the Superbowl. Trent Green has a severe injury or Warner would have been stuck behind him. Delhomme had sign with another organization and then wait for Rodney Peete to suck. Brad Johnson had every Qb in the world play before him in Minnesota and then went to Tampa Bay.

Basically, dominating the world league is like a pitcher in baseball dominating AAA, it is a good sign, but by no means a signal that he is a good Qb. Ron Powlus played very well in world league, so did the aforementioned Rohan Davey. I am sure the list is much longer of guys who played really well in NFLe than were never heard from than the huge success stories.

bingbing
06-12-2005, 11:40 AM
Those guys all had to take some funky routes to get to the Superbowl. Trent Green has a severe injury or Warner would have been stuck behind him. Delhomme had sign with another organization and then wait for Rodney Peete to suck. Brad Johnson had every Qb in the world play before him in Minnesota and then went to Tampa Bay.

Basically, dominating the world league is like a pitcher in baseball dominating AAA, it is a good sign, but by no means a signal that he is a good Qb. Ron Powlus played very well in world league, so did the aforementioned Rohan Davey. I am sure the list is much longer of guys who played really well in NFLe than were never heard from than the huge success stories.

I wasn't saying he was gonna win a Super Bowl, but it is a fact that he has had a better season than all of the stars that have come out of NFLE.

Injuries happen, and Carr is not exactly the best protected QB in the league with that O-Line, so you never know, Ragone may get his chance to play some time this season and if he plays well then the Texans will really be able to make a trade and get a high pick, or they can hold on to him and have confidence in their depth at the most important position.

TexansNeedRBin05
06-12-2005, 12:59 PM
I wasn't saying he was gonna win a Super Bowl, but it is a fact that he has had a better season than all of the stars that have come out of NFLE.

Injuries happen, and Carr is not exactly the best protected QB in the league with that O-Line, so you never know, Ragone may get his chance to play some time this season and if he plays well then the Texans will really be able to make a trade and get a high pick, or they can hold on to him and have confidence in their depth at the most important position.

Id rather us be bad if Carr gets hurt for more than 3 games. Means a higher and better chance in 06! :highfive:

Beaverhunter
06-15-2005, 09:29 PM
Carr hasn't shown he is the man for sure and Ragone has lots of heart let them battle it out in camp and may the best man win. Everybody else is tradeable or can be released what we need to let these guys know is nothing is for sure either play like a winner or get down the road and that should mean everybody no sacred cows. :brickwall

hellojohnnyboi
06-15-2005, 09:49 PM
Honestly this is what i think the Texans quaterback situation will look like...

Opening Day
David Carr
Dave Ragone
BJ Symons
Preston Parsons

What I think will happen is....get rid of Tony Banks(trade, waive)...I think that of course will give Dave Ragon the green light to back up Carr full time...BJ Symons will bump up on to the active roster mainly because he is a Texas hero(went to the same Jr. High that I just graduated from...im in 9th grade) and i think Preston Parsons will move onto the PS or the Texans will find an excuse to put him on the IR.

Tell me what y'all think of this?

infantrycak
06-16-2005, 09:00 AM
What I think will happen is....get rid of Tony Banks(trade, waive)...

They may not be infallible, but folks need to read the tea leaves. The Texans just resigned Banks to a two year deal. That in and of itself means nothing as the contract isn't guaranteed. BUT, they gave him an $800k signing bonus. Cut him now and they take an $800k hit on the cap for having him attend 5 weeks of mini-camp. If the Texans had any thought of not keeping Banks this year they would have made his contract more salary adn less signing bonus. Banks will be in Houston standing on the sideline this season.

edo783
06-16-2005, 10:08 AM
They may not be infallible, but folks need to read the tea leaves. The Texans just resigned Banks to a two year deal. That in and of itself means nothing as the contract isn't guaranteed. BUT, they gave him an $800k signing bonus. Cut him now and they take an $800k hit on the cap for having him attend 5 weeks of mini-camp. If the Texans had any thought of not keeping Banks this year they would have made his contract more salary adn less signing bonus. Banks will be in Houston standing on the sideline this season.

And for me, that's a comforting thought. We need to have Tony around at least one more year, probably 2, if for nothing else but to see how things play out with Rags. If by chance we trade him this season or the next off season, there isn't anyone besides Tony on the staff with the experience that I would trust a game to. We have a couple of PROSPECTS, but no one that I would feel even reasonably comfortable with as a back up.

U4ikrob
06-16-2005, 10:56 AM
Honestly this is what i think the Texans quaterback situation will look like...

Opening Day
David Carr
Dave Ragone
BJ Symons
Preston Parsons

What I think will happen is....get rid of Tony Banks(trade, waive)...I think that of course will give Dave Ragon the green light to back up Carr full time...BJ Symons will bump up on to the active roster mainly because he is a Texas hero(went to the same Jr. High that I just graduated from...im in 9th grade) and i think Preston Parsons will move onto the PS or the Texans will find an excuse to put him on the IR.

Tell me what y'all think of this?

Heya Johnny,

Covered this one above too and would agree with the last 2 posters.

Banks is our #2 QB - hands down. No other guy on the roster has the experience or grasp of the offense better than him outside of Carr and Bank has been signed thru next year also. They haev full confidence in Tony going in if David goes down. While RAgone has done an outstanding job this year in NFLE - he's oru 3rd QB on the chart and will remain there unless traded this year.
Symons may be cut or put on IR unless Ragone is traded. Talking of Texas heroes - how about Chance Mock?? Certainly think he might make the Practice Squad this year. I think him and Preston will be cut before camp and one will be added to the PS.

IMO Ragone's best bet is to get to a team he can compete for the #2 job on. That wont be here with the Texans for at least a few more years IMO. Banks is not that great, but he's inexpensive, reliable and knowledgeable of our offense enough to step in and play at anytime for at least a few more years.

Ragone will be up for contract next year as an RFA or will become an FA in the year following. IMO our best bet is to trade him now or next year before he becomes a street FA and can try-out with any team.

MojoMan
06-16-2005, 01:04 PM
Ragone will be up for contract next year as an RFA or will become an FA in the year following. IMO our best bet is to trade him now or next year before he becomes a street FA and can try-out with any team.

In order for the Texans to make a good trade, Ragone is going to need to play at least a little in some real games. This may be a good reason to place Ragone as number two, even if Banks appears to be the better overall quarterback. Ragone has to show that he can do it at the NFL level.

Aside from the marketing considerations for trading Ragone, I agree that Banks appears to be the better overall quarterback at this point. We need to keep Banks on the roster in case Ragone does not show that he is good enough to play in the NFL. Despite Ragone's excellent showing in the NFLEL, he still has a lot to prove at the NFL level.

Vinny
06-16-2005, 01:11 PM
We aren't going to trade Ragone this year...or Banks. This is one of the more stable positions on our team. We have worked for years to get to this point.