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View Full Version : Andre Johnson: Declining, Evolving, Or Victim of Dominance?


417Texan
10-25-2012, 10:36 PM
http://www.battleredblog.com/2012/10/25/3538928/houston-texans-wr-andre-johnson-declining-evolving-or-victim-of-dominance

I used to want to be Jerry Rice when I was younger. I used to fly around my background pretending I was The G.O.A.T. in my cherry red and white 80 jersey. Despite not being the biggest, fastest, or strongest, Rice was the greatest due to his own hard work and determination, and that was the draw for a young Texas boy, who grew up a San Francisco fan, just starting to play in recreational leagues. Jerry was just great on a level no one else could even reach, and then August 31st, 1997 happened.

Slimy piece of crap Warren Sapp twisted Rice down by the facemask. On that play, Rice tore his ACL and MCL. He would rush back from injury later that very season and cracked the patella in his left kneecap. Rice would come back and have a few more decent years, but he was no longer the baddest receiver on the planet. Injury let age catch up with Rice and never let him get back to the uncoverable, hill-running machine he once was.

I remember that sad sort of feeling seeing Rice slow down and, at times, feel it creeping in watching this generation's dominating 80, Houston Texans All-Galaxy wide receiver Andre Johnson, as he bounces back from lower leg injuries. The eye test does not see him kicking it into extra gear with those deep routes or running with his trademark crispness. It is fair to question if that is in Johnson's skill set anymore, right?

2slik4u
10-25-2012, 10:48 PM
Too long...losing interest...uh oh...interest lost...

Hardcore Texan
10-25-2012, 10:51 PM
That's a nice read. I think he looks better now than the beginning of the season. Maybe it took him awhile to bounce back from those injuries and get going, not sure. But he has improved.

I also think they are saving him as much as possible for the post season. We are going to need a healthy Dre for our Superbowl run.

417Texan
10-25-2012, 10:54 PM
That's a nice read. I think he looks better now than the beginning of the season. Maybe it took him awhile to bounce back from those injuries and get going, not sure. But he has improved.

I also think they are saving him as much as possible for the post season. We are going to need a healthy Dre for our Superbowl run.

Agree. Houston has so many options he does not have to have monster games every week.

Hervoyel
10-25-2012, 10:57 PM
Too long...losing interest...uh oh...interest lost...


That's called a short attention span. Nothing he can do to help you with that.

417Texan
10-25-2012, 11:03 PM
That's called a short attention span. Nothing he can do to help you with that.
:dancer:

Luv_ya_blue
10-25-2012, 11:03 PM
That's called a short attention span. Nothing he can do to help you with that.

I literally LOLed at this.
That's funny stuff Herv.
MSR.
:)

Hervoyel
10-25-2012, 11:11 PM
I literally LOLed at this.
That's funny stuff Herv.
MSR.
:)


It's a growing trend around here. had comments and negative rep from people who couldn't wrap their heads around what I wrote or who felt like more than three sentences was an English assignment.

One clown's comment was "You write too much". I thought "Yeah, well you don't read enough!"

Goldensilence
10-25-2012, 11:21 PM
I don't think anything is wrong as much as the offensive make up of this team is different.

Andre doesn't have to go off and have 100 yd plus and a score or two for this offense to go. This offense goes through Arian Foster now. Defenses definitely still respect him. When Schaub and the offense feeds him the ball in the passing game he can carry the load. He just doesn't have to and that makes this offense considerably more dangerous.

I think he's more than capable of having a big game and will whe nthe teams calls on him for it. Until then..sleeping giant.

Perki-Perk
10-26-2012, 12:50 AM
It's a growing trend around here. had comments and negative rep from people who couldn't wrap their heads around what I wrote or who felt like more than three sentences was an English assignment.

One clown's comment was "You write too much". I thought "Yeah, well you don't read enough!"

Yeah, that clutchfans type foolishness needs to stay at clutchfans. This is grown folks territory around here.

Good Read OP.

Vinny
10-26-2012, 12:54 AM
I cut the original post back to a smaller quote. Don't post full reprints of original work please....let's tease and link it.

barrett
10-26-2012, 01:25 AM
The answer to the question that Daniel has asked is - All of the above. Much like Jerry Rice, Johnson should continue to have highly productive seasons in this offense for years to come. If his body holds up, he should be less talked about, but very, very good as one of the better football players at his position until he decides he doesn't want to play any more.

After that, I'll have to wait 5 short years to finally make my first trip to Canton.

Luv_ya_blue
10-26-2012, 07:35 AM
Personally, I'd like to see Dre run slants on every single play (not being literal). He's unstoppable. He doesn't have the wheels to run fly patterns or torch DBs these days.

In the words of Costner...

He has the heart, just not the legs

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/995/layingdowntalking2.png

TheMatrix31
10-26-2012, 08:13 AM
He's fine.

TimeKiller
10-26-2012, 08:44 AM
What 31 year old runs as fast as they did at 21?

The answer? None!

He's still too big, too strong and too quick for most guys to hold him down. Whatever step he's lost he can still make up for with his work ethic and experience. In other words, he ain't done yet.

speedfreek
10-26-2012, 08:54 AM
I remember reading somewhere that the surgery he had when he last injured his hamstring was done to get him back on the field quickly -- and not to address the issue permanantly. I actually recall seeing something that said because of the way it was done that he might lose some of his "explosiveness" until he has another proceedure to address it.

Don't remember where i saw that, but I do remember seeing it..

Anyone else recall that?

TJ

Thorn
10-26-2012, 09:05 AM
What 31 year old runs as fast as they did at 21?

The answer? None!

He's still too big, too strong and too quick for most guys to hold him down. Whatever step he's lost he can still make up for with his work ethic and experience. In other words, he ain't done yet.

This.

ObsiWan
10-26-2012, 09:42 AM
That's called a short attention span. Nothing he can do to help you with that.

He didn't get past the word "short".
:kitten:

ObsiWan
10-26-2012, 09:44 AM
Too long...losing interest...uh oh...interest lost...

This ain't Twitter. Folks communicate using complete sentences around here.

The Pencil Neck
10-26-2012, 11:01 AM
I remember reading somewhere that the surgery he had when he last injured his hamstring was done to get him back on the field quickly -- and not to address the issue permanantly. I actually recall seeing something that said because of the way it was done that he might lose some of his "explosiveness" until he has another proceedure to address it.

Don't remember where i saw that, but I do remember seeing it..

Anyone else recall that?

TJ

Yes. That was from CnDs take on the surgery, iirc.

DBCooper
10-26-2012, 11:23 AM
This ain't Twitter. Folks communicate using complete sentences around here.

Sometimes.

rmartin65
10-26-2012, 12:09 PM
Sometimes.

I c wut u did der

Double Barrel
10-26-2012, 12:41 PM
That's called a short attention span. Nothing he can do to help you with that.

Adderall. :truck:

It's a growing trend around here. had comments and negative rep from people who couldn't wrap their heads around what I wrote or who felt like more than three sentences was an English assignment.

One clown's comment was "You write too much". I thought "Yeah, well you don't read enough!"

I don't give out neg rep...

...but when I do, it's because you told me the names of these fools. :howdy:

I don't think anything is wrong as much as the offensive make up of this team is different.

Andre doesn't have to go off and have 100 yd plus and a score or two for this offense to go. This offense goes through Arian Foster now. Defenses definitely still respect him. When Schaub and the offense feeds him the ball in the passing game he can carry the load. He just doesn't have to and that makes this offense considerably more dangerous.

I think he's more than capable of having a big game and will when the teams calls on him for it. Until then..sleeping giant.

I agree completely. While AJ is certainly getting older, I think the simple fact that this offense has so many options has more to do with his declining numbers than anything else.

And that's a good thing. Don't wear him out during the 16 game schedule, because I have no doubt 'beast mode' will be tapped into during the post-season. Dude waited a long time for 2011 to happen, and I'm sure he's looking forward to another couple of playoff games in 2012.

2012Champs
10-26-2012, 01:07 PM
He has slowed down some and is not the WR he once was. That has nothing to do with the rest of the Texans team however the rest of the Texans team might have an impact on his numbers or lack there of. He is still very good and a great teammate to have

Vinny
10-26-2012, 02:44 PM
I agree completely. While AJ is certainly getting older, I think the simple fact that this offense has so many options has more to do with his declining numbers than anything else.

And that's a good thing. Don't wear him out during the 16 game schedule, because I have no doubt 'beast mode' will be tapped into during the post-season. Dude waited a long time for 2011 to happen, and I'm sure he's looking forward to another couple of playoff games in 2012.
I don't see the same player. He isn't exploding out of his breaks like he used to. I think he will still be productive but the days of Andre being one of the best WR's in football are behind him if this is how he is going to play going forward. Kubiak will scheme up a few tricky plays and bust him open but we haven't seen him make many big plays that didn't have some play action or the defense getting fooled via scheme.

Errant Hothy
10-26-2012, 02:53 PM
What 31 year old runs as fast as they did at 21?

The answer? None!

He's still too big, too strong and too quick for most guys to hold him down. Whatever step he's lost he can still make up for with his work ethic and experience. In other words, he ain't done yet.

Besides guys like Tyson Gay and Justin Gatlin?

30 should not, and does not, automatically mean an athlete loses a step. Does AJ appear slower? At times. Is this due to age or coming back from injury, I don't know. I firmly believe he rushed back last year, and I wonder if there might be long term consequences for that.

Double Barrel
10-26-2012, 03:39 PM
I don't see the same player. He isn't exploding out of his breaks like he used to. I think he will still be productive but the days of Andre being one of the best WR's in football are behind him if this is how he is going to play going forward. Kubiak will scheme up a few tricky plays and bust him open but we haven't seen him make many big plays that didn't have some play action or the defense getting fooled via scheme.

Yeah, I've noticed this, too. He's not getting separation like he used to. I accepted the fact last season that he's not going to be the best WR in football for the rest of his career.

But, I think he's still got good hands and ability to overpower defenders at times. He's not the deep threat that he used to be, but I think he's good enough that defenses will still account for him.

However, a solid CB can cover him now, like we saw with Cromartie in the Jets game. AJ would have dominated a guy like that a few years ago, but Cromartie was putting up a Revis performance that night. Fortunately, we do not need AJ to win games, so his diminished skills will not hurt us as much as it would have in 2009.

Age and injuries are the great equalizers in football, as always. Nobody, not even the greatest of greats, can beat that simple fact of life.

417Texan
10-26-2012, 03:52 PM
Yeah, I've noticed this, too. He's not getting separation like he used to. I accepted the fact last season that he's not going to be the best WR in football for the rest of his career.

But, I think he's still got good hands and ability to overpower defenders at times. He's not the deep threat that he used to be, but I think he's good enough that defenses will still account for him.

However, a solid CB can cover him now, like we saw with Cromartie in the Jets game. AJ would have dominated a guy like that a few years ago, but Cromartie was putting up a Revis performance that night. Fortunately, we do not need AJ to win games, so his diminished skills will not hurt us as much as it would have in 2009.

Age and injuries are the great equalizers in football, as always. Nobody, not even the greatest of greats, can beat that simple fact of life.



AJ still is a all pro in my book and will make big time plays when the post season comes around.

The Pencil Neck
10-26-2012, 04:42 PM
The thing is that even with the loss of a step, AJ is such an amazing route runner that he can still get free against most CBs. There have been several times this year where if Matt just had a split second more, he would have been able to hit a wide open AJ for a TD.

AJ is smart enough to compensate for his beginning to lose his speed as long as he's healthy.

badboy
10-26-2012, 05:49 PM
Yeah, I've noticed this, too. He's not getting separation like he used to. I accepted the fact last season that he's not going to be the best WR in football for the rest of his career.

But, I think he's still got good hands and ability to overpower defenders at times. He's not the deep threat that he used to be, but I think he's good enough that defenses will still account for him.

However, a solid CB can cover him now, like we saw with Cromartie in the Jets game. AJ would have dominated a guy like that a few years ago, but Cromartie was putting up a Revis performance that night. Fortunately, we do not need AJ to win games, so his diminished skills will not hurt us as much as it would have in 2009.

Age and injuries are the great equalizers in football, as always. Nobody, not even the greatest of greats, can beat that simple fact of life.
I agree with you and Vinny. The uncomfortable feeling I have is not knowing for sure if he will get some better, worse or continue to have injuries causing chunks of games missed. I also realize he is one of those players that some posters will allow no criticism. What he is or will become has nothing to do with what he was. Still, a wise Ric Smith should have a plan to replace AJ on the field before the end of days.

Norg
10-26-2012, 06:36 PM
i would say ok in a few years lets just trade him but since we gave him the HUGE contract I dont know and i know doing that would prob not go over to well with the sheep fans but u know This would be just biz nass nothing personal


i hope tho he retires a texan so i dont know what the Front office is going 2 do

i know we prob going to have to draft another .... WR ..... or a TE

SAMURAITEXAN
10-26-2012, 07:06 PM
It isn't more of combination of everything?

Yeah, AJ may lost a step and of course it does come with age. However, we run more than we used to in comparison with a few yrs ago. We spread pass to TE , RB, HB and other WR to keep opposite D thinking and off balanced. Our O is unpredictable now than in the past.

If we are pass happy O and AJ is the go to guy, I am certain that he will put up some # for you.(may not be 2K or 1.5k but over 1k easy) However, we are focused on winning games and ultimately bringing Lombardi trophy in Houston.

What I am trying to say is due to our scheme(running first) and no need to throw deep ball that often as we have enough weapons on O side for mid range pass when needed. We don't have to rely so much on AJ production and not to mention keep AJ in heathy condition until post season.

If I had a team of my own, I would be more than happy to have AJ as my #1 WR!

Go Texans!!! Edited got too excited on this thread and needed to fix my post.

ObsiWan
10-26-2012, 08:08 PM
It isn't more of combination of everything?

Yeah, AJ may lost a step and of course it does come with age. However, we run more than we used to in comparison with a few yrs ago. We spread pass to TE , RB, HB and other WR to keep opposite D thinking and off balanced. Our O is unpredictable now than in the past.

If we are pass happy O and AJ is the go to guy, I am certain that he will put up some # for you.(may not be 2K or 1.5k but over 1k easy) However, we are focused on winning games and ultimately bringing Lombardi trophy in Houston.

What I am trying to say is due to our scheme(running fast) not occasionally throwing deep ball and we have enough weapons on O side, we don't have to rely so much on AJ production and not to mention keep AJ in heathy condition until post season.

If I had a team my own, I would be more than happy to have AJ as our #1 WR!

Go Texans!!!

Yeah... your #1 WR doesn't need to be a speed guy, just a dependable guy who will get open, has rapport with the QB, and can make the tough catches.

...See Marvin Harrison or Cris Carter...

Insideop
10-26-2012, 09:48 PM
i would say ok in a few years lets just trade him but since we gave him the HUGE contract I dont know and i know doing that would prob not go over to well with the sheep fans but u know This would be just biz nass nothing personal


i hope tho he retires a texan so i dont know what the Front office is going 2 do

i know we prob going to have to draft another .... WR ..... or a TE

I don't think you trade a player like AJ and I don't think McNair wants to. I think he wants him to retire a Texan and be the 1st Texan in the NFL HOF. The only thing I see that would make them trade him is if AJ wants to play long after everyone knows he can't physically do it anymore. And, if the Texans win a SB in the next couple of years, I think AJ will be happy enough with that to not play when his physical tools are gone. There's nothing more sad than an athlete, or anyone else for that matter, who doesn't know when to "hang it up."

steelbtexan
10-26-2012, 10:07 PM
I literally LOLed at this.
That's funny stuff Herv.
MSR.
:)

Got him

Texan_Bill
10-26-2012, 10:26 PM
Jerry Rice < Andre Johnson!!!

Andre did it on way worse teams thsn the old 49's teams..

NastyNate
10-27-2012, 04:20 PM
Jerry Rice < Andre Johnson!!!

Andre did it on way worse teams thsn the old 49's teams..

Bill, you're fun when you're drunk, but Rice was the greatest of all time. Andre is still a beast but Jerry Rice was a once in a lifetime athlete.

Vinny
10-27-2012, 07:12 PM
Bill, you're fun when you're drunk, but Rice was the greatest of all time. Andre is still a beast but Jerry Rice was a once in a lifetime athlete. yeah, Rice is the all-time NFL leader in catches, TD's, and yardage. Andre has been great but he was never a great yac guy or a guy who scored many TD's (some of that is yac related - some of that is his QB to be fair). Rice blows him away in his ability to run with the ball and score.

76Texan
10-27-2012, 07:32 PM
I don't think anything is wrong as much as the offensive make up of this team is different.

Andre doesn't have to go off and have 100 yd plus and a score or two for this offense to go. This offense goes through Arian Foster now. Defenses definitely still respect him. When Schaub and the offense feeds him the ball in the passing game he can carry the load. He just doesn't have to and that makes this offense considerably more dangerous.

I think he's more than capable of having a big game and will whe nthe teams calls on him for it. Until then..sleeping giant.

I see it as a combination of a lot of things.

The same thing happened during the off-season when some folks thought that the Texans also need a #2 WR to replace Walter.

They said Walter is no longer capable of getting open on the outside; well, he showed that he can still can.

The same thing goes for AJ.
I had mentioned how when we played the Raiders, Asomugha+a safety > AJ.
The same goes with Cromartie+a safety > AJ
The same goes with some CB+a safety > Megatron

When two guys don't make mistake, it's impossible for a WR to beat them by himself. And he would need good help from his QB often.

Everybody declines with age, that's for sure.
In this case, it's not quite the age (even though it does contribute a good part to the equation), but it's more the nagging injuries.

So far, I don't see it as a hindrance to his game.
He's being targeted the least number of times since he's been here and he's still on the way to a 1K season.

444/7*16= 1,015

I think it's a good idea to monitor his health and his snap counts; we're going to need him in the play-offs as some have already suggested.

76Texan
10-27-2012, 07:39 PM
I don't think you trade a player like AJ and I don't think McNair wants to. I think he wants him to retire a Texan and be the 1st Texan in the NFL HOF. The only thing I see that would make them trade him is if AJ wants to play long after everyone knows he can't physically do it anymore. And, if the Texans win a SB in the next couple of years, I think AJ will be happy enough with that to not play when his physical tools are gone. There's nothing more sad than an athlete, or anyone else for that matter, who doesn't know when to "hang it up."Good post.

I would love very much for that to happen.