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beerlover
10-25-2012, 01:58 AM
Greetings fellow Texans, Draft Gurus & friends. This has become a ritual of sorts, to study, dialogue, agree to disagree & pound some sense out of next years draft, 2013, to see Texans continue to flourish, re-tool & hopefully become next NFL dynasty. The three Amigos (Badboy; rmartin65; beerlover;)) come from different backgrounds & have different viewpoints but we all share a common goal, to put out the best mock draft (both realistic, intuitive & honestly) our fellow fans will appreciate. If not for mods who brought us this forum & admins like Hookem Horns none of this would be possible & friendships like this never formed. Thank You. This Mock Draft is based on BPA (best player available) @ position of need.


First Round: Robert Woods, WR/Jr. 6010 190 lbs. USC

Woods along with Matt Barkley, choose to stay @ USC even during sanctions, forging ahead on record pace refining their craft, big ups. Despite that Woods remains under- the radar behind super sophomore sensation Marqise Lee on his own team. Woods now has the look of a seasoned, refined route runner in pro-system, putting up eye popping numbers (64 receptions as a true freshman, 111 receptions as sophomore, so far 44 receptions this year through only 7 games) In fact Woods set single game records, for USC, with 4 touchdowns against Arizona while going past all time school record for receptions with 217. "I grew up watching all those receivers, ever since I understood what USC football was," Woods said. "It's fun to follow in their footsteps, to be one of those great receivers." Woods would fill a similar role with Texans as the #2 WR behind it's star while already familiar with west coast system run by Kubiak making it a more seamless transition than most rookies entering NFL. Robert would also be a time saver, creating separation quickly for Schaub in pass pro (becoming 1st option in reads) if Schaub gets in trouble Woods is also adept @ working back to his QB. Teams will no longer double team Andre Johnson. Must also add & this is a very important distinction: we are not attempting to replace Andre Johnson (not sure that is even possible) what we are advocating is adding a dynamic complimentary sidekick, someone with both track speed (4.4) great instincts tracking the ball, vertical, hands, running routes & ability to run after catch.

Note: In Texan War Room it was discussed trading up in last years draft (Mercilus) however they rolled the dice & let the draft/player come to them. This year may be the year (compensatory picks cannot be used in trades but can use own picks) to target specific player in this case it is our opinion Robert Woods would be that player.

Second Round: Louis Nix III, NT/rSoph. 6030 330 lbs. Notre Dame

Dominates the center, engages double teams, keep pad level low with natural knee bend & strength. Very quick & explosive to meet & greet the QB or RB in the backfield. Plus measurable for NFL NT position. Still raw but smooth athlete has rare combination of size/speed. Would add beef & playmkaing stops inside, keep LB's clean like he does for Te'o, & personality ready made for showtime in the big's. Questions of his return to Notre Dame this past off season along with probably a second round grade from NFL advisory board in January will probably prompt him to come out early. Hence we are getting in line early to address the interior of this Texan DL.

Third Round (Texans) C.J. Fiedorowicz, TE/Jr. 6060 265 lbs. Iowa

Hard to move off his feet when in pass pro or while in receiving route, established position & uses body to effectively wall off defender. Pronounced (Fee doh roh wiz) his father was a power lifter who started him on weights in 8th grade. "FIEDO" is a very good blocker who will protect Matt Schaub, besides added pass pro he can seal the edge or open large seams for Foster, Tate & company. Excellent target in Red Zone or first down scenarios. Very good hands with 21 for 213 yds with 5 games left. Follows long line of Hawkeyes tight ends: Dallas Clark, Tony Moeaki, Brandon Myers and Scott Chandler. Foundation, three down blocking TE with ability to transform into a dangerous offensive weapon disguising either run or passing options.

Third Round (Mario Williams compensatory pick - could be in danger of downgrading this pick due to his lack of production - subject to change) Andrew Jackson, ILB/Jr. 6010 262 lbs. Western Kentucky

Has been compared to Jack Lambert due to his physical play. Alabama Nick Saban said "He's a thumper, plays well, takes on blocker; a really good tackler. I have a lot of respect for him." Jackson once scolded a teammate who eased up as runner headed for sidelines. He only knows how to play 100%. Reminds of first round pick Dont'a Hightower. Could start day one, but will need to learn Wade Phillips system & earn his place on team. He possess the ideal blend of size/speed to play ILB. Andrew has the downhill physical nature to relieve Brian of extreme physical demands or putting him in back too soon as Cushing comes off rehabilitation providing extra insurance as well a starting running mate in the middle for the future.

Fourth Round: Lane Johnson, OT/Sr. 6060 303 lbs. Oklahoma

Athletic, swing tackle to groom who has developed (through excellent coaching) into OU's best OL. He fills one of the Texan tackle requirements in that he is a converted TE (also QB/DT). Has started both RT & LT. Has plus length arms (35") & strong hands to control speed rushers & has natural knee bend to adjust body in front of assignment. Adequate in both pass pro & run blocking, could fit in ZBS. With his upside & Texans need for depth @ position (Butler is probably done) we have upgraded his stock to end of 4th rd. He should make this roster & back up Brown while Harris backs up Newton. Could also get reps @ LG to add depth behind Wade Smith. Athletic, versatile, smart, Lane is from Groveton Texas & is Academic All-Big 12 first team.

Fifth Round: (Texans) Etienne Sabino, OLB/Sr. 6030 238 lbs. The Ohio State

Five star prep recruit who choose Buckeyes over football powers like USC, Miami & Florida. Special teams player first two seasons before breaking into starting lineup as a Junior finishing fifth on the team with 62 tackles and 6.5 tackles for loss. Through the first six games, the senior ranked third on the team with 37 tackles before breaking Fibula which probably cost him going a round or two higher in 2013 draft. His style of play is reminiscent of Brian Cushing, very athletic, great range, downhill blitzer who finishes his tackles. ES could flip inside or play some OLB, adds depth to LB position & someone to learn & shadow Cushing. Depth & special teams, unique athlete.

Fifth Round: (compensatory for Brisiel/Jacoby) Josh Johnson, CB/FS/Sr. 5110 195 lbs. Purdue

A team can never have enough young talent and depth in the defensive backfield. A good-sized corner with excellent tackling skills and on-field awareness, Josh Johnson could play either CB or FS for the Texans in 2013. While he does not have the ‘wow’ speed that the elite prospects have, Johnson is somehow always around the ball, totaling 64 tackles, 9 batted passes and 2 picks last year, and 25 tackles, 8 batted passes and 3 picks in 7 games this year. Furthermore, he fits the Texans’ mold, having been named to the Big 10 academic team two years running.

Sixth Round: Zach Boren, FB/Sr. 6001 252 lbs. The Ohio State

Here is our long waited Vonta Leach replacement. Boren is the prototypical FB who would run through a brick wall to open a hole. This year Boren has taken a more active role in the offense, running for 33 yards on 11 carries and two touchdowns, while catching 5 balls for 42 yards. While these are hardly mindblowing numbers, they go to show that, unlike Leach, Boren can make plays with the ball, even if it is not why he is being drafted here. We foresee many more years of the league’s best rushing offense with Boren helping to clear the way.

Seventh Round: Kapron Lewis-Moore, DE/Sr. 6040 306 lbs. Notre Dame

Kap is defensive co-captain with Manti Te'o. He is a converted OLB with pass rushing moves yet stout enough to drop down as a 5-tech 3-4 end. High motor, effort guy who is always around the football but not quick enough to get there first before Te'o or Nix, still these are the type of effort depth players NFL teams feed off to sustain teams health & longevity. Losing Tim Jamision & David Hunter has left the depth chart with only Jared Crick a rookie & 4th rd. draft pick from Nebraska. We feel Lewis-Moore could fill this vacuum pending on how well those players rehab to give Texans much needed adequate depth to maintain defense @ a high level for entire 16 game season & playoffs.

SAMURAITEXAN
10-25-2012, 04:40 AM
Nice job 3 Amigos!!!

I do want deep threat WR but, I don't know if we pull a trigger on WR in the 1st as we already drafted 2 WR last year.

If we draft Nix in the 2nd rd, I would prefer to kick Mitchell to outside and draft OG prospect in the 7th rd.

But man, seems you guys worked really hard. Drink some beer!!!:barman:

Corrosion
10-25-2012, 07:10 AM
Im curious what your other round one options were , both player and position.

Im not sold on a WR in the first .... Just dont see that player making enough of an impact out of the gate to justify a first round pick behind AJ and Walter.
Thats not even taking into account the two they drafted in this last offseason.


I know a lot of people are down on Posey since he hasnt gotten much opportunity .... but the kid has all world "Football" speed as he showed you that in the Jets game chasing down Joe McKnight on the KO return. Also , remember his first catch in the preseason , breaking a tackle and taking it the distance ??
He's going to get more opportunities as he learns the playbook and sharpens his route running.
The Texans offense is just too complex to expect a rookie to jump in with both feet and make an impact.

Then again , maybe you guy's are thinking that this could be the eventual replacement to AJ and are Ok with him having a year or more to learn the offense and hone his skills before being thrust into the lineup.

rmartin65
10-25-2012, 07:10 AM
Thanks for posting it BL. It was good to work with you guys again!

Dutchrudder
10-25-2012, 08:55 AM
Kudos on all the work, this is a good stuff. I think you guys could add another comp pick in the 6th or 7th and be fine. We should have 4 coming.

So if we draft a fullback, are you planning on re-signing Casey and making him a TE, or what?

rmartin65
10-25-2012, 09:18 AM
Kudos on all the work, this is a good stuff. I think you guys could add another comp pick in the 6th or 7th and be fine. We should have 4 coming.

So if we draft a fullback, are you planning on re-signing Casey and making him a TE, or what?

Really? I am terrible with the comp pick stuff, so I am not too surprised. Thanks.

At least from my POV, drafting Boren means we get rid of Clutts, who has shown nothing thus far. Casey becomes more of an HBack.

Dutchrudder
10-25-2012, 09:38 AM
Really? I am terrible with the comp pick stuff, so I am not too surprised. Thanks.

At least from my POV, drafting Boren means we get rid of Clutts, who has shown nothing thus far. Casey becomes more of an HBack.

Yes, we should get 4 compensatory picks:

Mario Williams - 3/4th
Mike Brisiel - 4/5th
Joel Dreesen - 5/6th
Jason Allen - 6/7th

The Texans signed zero qualifying free agents, so every loss should result in at least a 7th. Play time, games started and contract size figure into this equation, so those are just rough estimates.

Insideop
10-25-2012, 09:40 AM
Great work guys!

You hit all the areas I believe the Texans are thin at (NT, TE, & ILB), and gave us good depth at other positions as well as bolster STs. I'm with some of the posters on drafting a WR in the 1st but if Woods is as good as you say he is, and the Texans still feel it's a need, then I wouldn't mind the pick. I think my favorite pick is Jackson the ILB. He may not be a 3 down ILB but we need somebody in there with an attitude (like Ray Lewis) that will punish people. I'm just worried he won't be there when the Texans pick. He will probably start moving up draft boards soon if not already.

rmartin65
10-25-2012, 09:50 AM
Yes, we should get 4 compensatory picks:

Mario Williams - 3/4th
Mike Brisiel - 4/5th
Joel Dreesen - 5/6th
Jason Allen - 6/7th

The Texans signed zero qualifying free agents, so every loss should result in at least a 7th. Play time, games started and contract size figure into this equation, so those are just rough estimates.

Awesome! I thought teams get capped at 3 comp picks though? Like I said, I am hardly an expert. Usually I dont work these into my mocks until we know for sure, but BB and BL were confident in us getting at least 2.

Also, how does Mario's recent play affect the picks? I know the formula is secret, but it takes into account salary and play. Are we more likely to see a 4th than a 3rd?

Great work guys!

You hit all the areas I believe the Texans are thin at (NT, TE, & ILB), and gave us good depth at other positions as well as bolster STs. I'm with some of the posters on drafting a WR in the 1st but if Woods is as good as you say he is, and the Texans still feel it's a need, then I wouldn't mind the pick. I think my favorite pick is Jackson the ILB. He may not be a 3 down ILB but we need somebody in there with an attitude (like Ray Lewis) that will punish people. I'm just worried he won't be there when the Texans pick. He will probably start moving up draft boards soon if not already.

The 1st round really came down to value. Woods has incredible value at the end of the first, and we could use an upgrade/future number 1 guy.

Jackson is an interesting player to place. He is definitely a 2 down player though, which I think when coupled with his small school status dooms him to being a 3rd rounder.

Insideop
10-25-2012, 09:52 AM
Yes, we should get 4 compensatory picks:

Mario Williams - 3/4th
Mike Brisiel - 4/5th
Joel Dreesen - 5/6th
Jason Allen - 6/7th

The Texans signed zero qualifying free agents, so every loss should result in at least a 7th. Play time, games started and contract size figure into this equation, so those are just rough estimates.

Shayne Graham wasn't a qualified FA? I think Donnie Jones, Allen Ball, Forsett, and Bradie James were all released by their teams, so they wouldn't qualify. Right? But I'm not sure about Ryan Harris either.

beerlover
10-25-2012, 10:05 AM
Shayne Graham wasn't a qualified FA? I think Donnie Jones, Allen Ball, Forsett, and Bradie James were all released by their teams, so they wouldn't qualify. Right? But I'm not sure about Ryan Harris either.

yeah, I think your right to some degree, Texans would be very fortuitous to receive 4 compensatory picks. Ball = Allen. James = Dreesen. Graham = Rackers. Jones/Forsett/Harris + performance could knock down Mario Williams. In conclusion we decided to lower expectations (bundle of extra picks) to help Texan fans from being crushed next February @ the combine when the NFL awards compensatory picks. I'm sure there will much discussion to follow on this subject, just remember with success of Texans free agent group, despite lower contracts, they will most likely offset early projections. :bender:

Dutchrudder
10-25-2012, 10:07 AM
Shayne Graham wasn't a qualified FA? I think Donnie Jones, Allen Ball, Forsett, and Bradie James were all released by their teams, so they wouldn't qualify. Right? But I'm not sure about Ryan Harris either.

The player must be signed before a certain date, June 1st I believe, and they must sign for more than a vet minimum deal. The player signed must also be a free agent, not an RFA, not a cut/released player, and he must have less than 10 years accrued in the NFL. Every one of those guys signed was either cut/released from their previous team or signed a minimum deal.

Just an FYI, last year WR Sidney Rice did nearly nothing with the Seahawks and was still worth a 4th round comp pick for the Vikings. Asomougha had a terrible year with the Eagles, but was still worth a 3rd for his big contract. I think Mario will still be worth a 3rd, just because his contract is huge. The other guys will need to see the field a lot to get those numbers up.

You can read more about comp picks here: http://adamjt13.blogspot.com/

Insideop
10-25-2012, 11:38 AM
yeah, I think your right to some degree, Texans would be very fortuitous to receive 4 compensatory picks. Ball = Allen. James = Dreesen. Graham = Rackers. Jones/Forsett/Harris + performance could knock down Mario Williams. In conclusion we decided to lower expectations (bundle of extra picks) to help Texan fans from being crushed next February @ the combine when the NFL awards compensatory picks. I'm sure there will much discussion to follow on this subject, just remember with success of Texans free agent group, despite lower contracts, they will most likely offset early projections. :bender:

BL, you misunderstand me (and I probably stated it poorly). I was saying that Ball, James, Jones, and Forsett should not count against the Texans for compensatory picks because they were all released from their teams, but was asking for confirmation by asking if I was right. DR said that all of those guys, including Graham, will not count against the Texans for compensatory picks. So that's good news!

beerlover
10-25-2012, 11:44 AM
This will be another solid weekend of College games on the docket, starting with Oklahoma hosting the Notre Dame Irish. Three players in our "BYE WEEK" mock will be flashing their skill-set starting with NT Louis Nicks III. If your one looking for a prototypical 3-4 nose, Nix should impress you like he does us, making him a valued projected second round selection for the Texans. Fourth round pick Lane Johnson will be severely tested @ LT we'll see if he can hold back the Irish on the edges so Landry Jones can target his weapons down the field. Kap is our last pick in the 7th rd. he has nice size to play a 3-4 DE, he is both disruptive & relentless in his play. Enjoy your weekend of Football while the Texans rest :cool:

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-10-24/college-football-week-9-preview-notre-dame-oklahoma-alabama-mississippi-state-ka

badboy
10-25-2012, 01:22 PM
To answer an earlier question, we looked at all first round candidates and some that were projected in top half of round two. We want the best player that would fit a need. In the near future, we might choose a BPA that is a QB for instance but with Schaub and TJ and Keenum in Kubiak's favor on PS, no way could we see drafting a QB thisdraft but will not rule it out in future. Some guys we strongly considered were Johnathan Banks, T'eo, Matthews, Barrett Jones, Terrence Williams, Cordarrelle Patterson (climbing the charts), Jesse Williams, Syvester Williams, and Sheldon Richardson. Some were ruled out as should be gone by our pick. We then compared skills set/potential (yes it does matter), ceiling and team need. Also important is would McNair agree to pick (Da'Rick Rogers)? While we disagreed on some we went with consensus after thorough discussion.

As Beerlover said for those of you interested in draft, this weekend offers some very good games.

My concern on Robert Woods is he has dropped some but after combine should rocket back up & might not be there when we select. If there is a franchise type player especially at a need spot that could take over eventually for an icon like AJ, you just have to be willing to take that chance.

Dutchrudder
10-25-2012, 01:59 PM
yeah, I think your right to some degree, Texans would be very fortuitous to receive 4 compensatory picks. Ball = Allen. James = Dreesen. Graham = Rackers. Jones/Forsett/Harris + performance could knock down Mario Williams. In conclusion we decided to lower expectations (bundle of extra picks) to help Texan fans from being crushed next February @ the combine when the NFL awards compensatory picks. I'm sure there will much discussion to follow on this subject, just remember with success of Texans free agent group, despite lower contracts, they will most likely offset early projections. :bender:

Sorry BL, you are simply wrong about this, and I would gladly bet you a beer that the Texans receive 4 picks in February. The vet minimum numbers for

2012 are:
1) Rookie - $390,000
2) 1 year - $465,000
3) 2 year - $540,000
4) 3 year - $615,000
5) 4-6 year - $700,000
6) 7-9 year - $825,000
7) 10+ year - $925,000

2012 salaries are as follows:
Shayne Graham: 2012: $925,000
Bradie James: 2012: $825,000
Donnie Jones: 2012: $825,000
Alan Ball: 6/2/2012: Signed an undisclosed contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Justin Forsett: 6/2/2012: Signed a one-year contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Ryan Harris: 9/1/2012: Signed a one-year, $700,000 contract.

Signing bonuses can be up to 65k without effecting the comp picks.
Players over 10 years accrued no longer count against comp picks.
Players must sign for more than their veteran minimum to nullify other comp picks.

None of these guys will effect the comp picks we get in return. The only thing that will limit what the Texans receive will be the way they play for their new teams. Number of games started, total contract value, etc etc.

beerlover
10-25-2012, 02:12 PM
Sorry BL, you are simply wrong about this, and I would gladly bet you a beer that the Texans receive 4 picks in February. The vet minimum numbers for

2012 are:
1) Rookie - $390,000
2) 1 year - $465,000
3) 2 year - $540,000
4) 3 year - $615,000
5) 4-6 year - $700,000
6) 7-9 year - $825,000
7) 10+ year - $925,000

2012 salaries are as follows:
Shayne Graham: 2012: $925,000
Bradie James: 2012: $825,000
Donnie Jones: 2012: $825,000
Alan Ball: 6/2/2012: Signed an undisclosed contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Justin Forsett: 6/2/2012: Signed a one-year contract. (June 1st is cutoff date for comp picks)
Ryan Harris: 9/1/2012: Signed a one-year, $700,000 contract.

Signing bonuses can be up to 65k without effecting the comp picks.
Players over 10 years accrued no longer count against comp picks.
Players must sign for more than their veteran minimum to nullify other comp picks.

None of these guys will effect the comp picks we get in return. The only thing that will limit what the Texans receive will be the way they play for their new teams. Number of games started, total contract value, etc etc.

I'm always up for a cold one, regardless who pays :handshake:

Appreciate your informed input on this subject. Maybe we can catch some Combine @ a mutually agreeable sports bar when the powers that be of the NFL make it official & work out a Texan "post combine" mock draft with all the picks in correct order?

Dutchrudder
10-25-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm always up for a cold one, regardless who pays :handshake:

Appreciate your informed input on this subject. Maybe we can catch some Combine @ a mutually agreeable sports bar when the powers that be of the NFL make it official & work out a Texan "post combine" mock draft with all the picks in correct order?

Gladly, we should do an offseason get together for an NFL mock draft at Bubba's this year. I know a lot of the guys around here would be willing to do it and take a couple teams each to complete 5 rounds. Once comp picks are announced and the order is made, we could have a Saturday meetup to get it done.

Corrosion
10-25-2012, 07:41 PM
Im curious what your other round one options were , both player and position.




:foottap:

thunderkyss
10-25-2012, 08:22 PM
Im curious what your other round one options were , both player and position.

Im not sold on a WR in the first .... Just dont see that player making enough of an impact out of the gate to justify a first round pick behind AJ and Walter.
Thats not even taking into account the two they drafted in this last offseason.


I know a lot of people are down on Posey since he hasnt gotten much opportunity .... but the kid has all world "Football" speed as he showed you that in the Jets game chasing down Joe McKnight on the KO return. Also , remember his first catch in the preseason , breaking a tackle and taking it the distance ??
He's going to get more opportunities as he learns the playbook and sharpens his route running.
The Texans offense is just too complex to expect a rookie to jump in with both feet and make an impact.

Then again , maybe you guy's are thinking that this could be the eventual replacement to AJ and are Ok with him having a year or more to learn the offense and hone his skills before being thrust into the lineup.

Both Aj & KDub are over 30, we're going to need a 1 & 2 soon. Maybe not next season, maybe not the season after. But soon. & while Posey may have 1st round talent, chances are still stacked against him being a #1 NFL receiver. Adding another first rounder edges our bets.

I like it.

Not a lot of places on this team I'm dying to drop a first rounder on, but yes, I'd like to know what other options are there. Wouldn't mind exercising the luxury of being able to go BPA.

rmartin65
10-25-2012, 08:34 PM
Im curious what your other round one options were , both player and position.

Im not sold on a WR in the first .... Just dont see that player making enough of an impact out of the gate to justify a first round pick behind AJ and Walter.
Thats not even taking into account the two they drafted in this last offseason.


I know a lot of people are down on Posey since he hasnt gotten much opportunity .... but the kid has all world "Football" speed as he showed you that in the Jets game chasing down Joe McKnight on the KO return. Also , remember his first catch in the preseason , breaking a tackle and taking it the distance ??
He's going to get more opportunities as he learns the playbook and sharpens his route running.
The Texans offense is just too complex to expect a rookie to jump in with both feet and make an impact.

Then again , maybe you guy's are thinking that this could be the eventual replacement to AJ and are Ok with him having a year or more to learn the offense and hone his skills before being thrust into the lineup.

:foottap:

Sorry, missed your post.

Well, we initially discussed it by positions- WR, OT, and NT getting the most conversation, although CB was briefly considered. In the end, it really came down to Woods and Sheldon Richardson (NT, Missouri), and we went with Woods for 2 main reasons- 1) Richardson is climbing, climbing up the boards, and at the moment it is unlikely he will be available when the Texans pick at 32. 2) NT has such a high bust rate. A franchise HAS to hit on it's first rounder. Missing is just so costly. Woods is a safe pick with a high ceiling and a high floor. He is dropping due to the play of others, not because of his own play.

As for the "need" for Woods, we are projecting him to be a potential future number 1. Right now we have Martin, Posey and Jean who are battling it out for the mantle of the future of the Texans' receiving corps. All have warts, and none are likely (in my opinion, at least) to become a true number 1. Martin looks like a dynamite slot receiver, Jean looks to be a number 2 big target, and Posey, while I know you are high on him, has never impressed me. Granted, it is very early in his career, but I just dont think he becomes anything special. That said, I do this as a hobby, not because I think I have any particular talent for player evaluation. We will just have to see what the future holds.

EDIT- just realized I got carried away, and did not really answer the question of other 1st round targets outside of Woods (and Richardson). I am a fan of Matthews from TAMU and Fisher from Central Michigan (both OTs), as well as Short (NT, Purdue) and a couple of sleeper OLBs (though I doubt the need for one this high, but I think they have huge potential) in James Gayle (VT) and Ezekiel Ansah (BYU). I know BB liked the Alabama and North Carolina NTs, as well as Baylor WR Williams.

There may be some other guys in there that I forgot about, but that is a pretty good list.

beerlover
10-25-2012, 08:41 PM
Sorry guys been busy @ work. Thought badboy addressed this to some degree but here were my rankings per need off top of my head.

1. Manti T'eo ILB, #1 target in my mind
2. Jonathan Banks, CB, just love his game
3. Jake Matthews, OT, would be a great RT for Texans
4. Robert Woods, WR, great fit for this offense

Looked long & hard @ NT position but honestly not one has 1st rd. Grade. Let me tell you this Nix kid could be special. Also looked @ other WR's like Cordarrelle Patterson, great return skills he could be another option if the top four already taken.

Thanks for asking & your valued feedback :logo:

steelbtexan
10-25-2012, 11:18 PM
Gladly, we should do an offseason get together for an NFL mock draft at Bubba's this year. I know a lot of the guys around here would be willing to do it and take a couple teams each to complete 5 rounds. Once comp picks are announced and the order is made, we could have a Saturday meetup to get it done.

I'm in,

Come up with a date.

Sounds like a great idea to me. I always have a great time hanging out with you guys at Bubbas.

steelbtexan
10-25-2012, 11:21 PM
Sorry guys been busy @ work. Thought badboy addressed this to some degree but here were my rankings per need off top of my head.

1. Manti T'eo ILB, #1 target in my mind
2. Jonathan Banks, CB, just love his game
3. Jake Matthews, OT, would be a great RT for Texans
4. Robert Woods, WR, great fit for this offense

Looked long & hard @ NT position but honestly not one has 1st rd. Grade. Let me tell you this Nix kid could be special. Also looked @ other WR's like Cordarrelle Patterson, great return skills he could be another option if the top four already taken.

Thanks for asking & your valued feedback :logo:

Patterson is #1 on my board because of the reasons you state.

Nice mock, filled needs

badboy
10-25-2012, 11:49 PM
:foottap:Uh, see post #15

rmartin65
10-26-2012, 08:53 AM
Patterson is #1 on my board because of the reasons you state.

Nice mock, filled needs

What worries me about Patterson is that this is is first (and likely, only) year in the SEC. One year wonders always are gutsy picks.

Furthermore, Tenn's offense is pretty stacked. Hunter certainly draws coverage away from Patterson, and despite his troubles this year, Bray is a heck of a QB.

Scooter
10-26-2012, 05:07 PM
great mock guys. i dont watch much college ball and try to stay out of the way when discussing the draft, especially because i can only relate to the positions and not the players specifically, but i have a few questions. how likely are these guys to be available when we draft? you mention possibly needing to trade up for woods which is something i supported in the "needs" thread, but trading up is not something we've traditionally done. as for woods, how's the rest of his game (blocking, locker room, etc)? he's a bit lighter than ideal, but then again you cant teach speed.

it took me a little while to piece it together, but i've come to agree with the early tightend and late fullback. graham is ok, but appears to have the 2nd tightend spot only by default, and could use to be upgraded since we're such a TE heavy team. having another fullback benefits our special teams as well as giving casey more freedom to spread out.

inside linebacker - yall wait until the third round. this is a position that by appearances is traditionally weighted towards late first round or early second. was there not a player here for our first couple of picks? dobbins is surprising a lot of people, but is best as a sub. james, alexander, and the perpetually injured sharpton are very expendable - leaving this one of few real positions of need. we may either need to double up, or look for an earlier pick.

nose tackle, how would yall rate this guy's motor? i'm skeptical of taking a "fat guy" early because of how difficult they are to evaluate, and how little time our current nose is on the field anyways. i would avoid a "project" on the defensive line if at all possible, instead trying to find support behind smith and watt. through 7 games we've yet to allow a rushing touchdown, we're not as bad as some presume up the middle.

beerlover
10-26-2012, 05:27 PM
All excellent questions.

Woods is complete. If texans feel same way don't be surprised if Rick trades up (see bolded comments under Woods).

Nix is not typical plug in the middle, he is plus 6'3" strong
& quick. In other words a Wade Phillips type.

Not a deep, talented crop of ILB's after T'eo.

TE is under-exposed utilized for Iowa. Powerhouse blocker with plus size & hands.

rmartin65
10-26-2012, 05:33 PM
great mock guys. i dont watch much college ball and try to stay out of the way when discussing the draft, especially because i can only relate to the positions and not the players specifically, but i have a few questions. how likely are these guys to be available when we draft? you mention possibly needing to trade up for woods which is something i supported in the "needs" thread, but trading up is not something we've traditionally done. as for woods, how's the rest of his game (blocking, locker room, etc)? he's a bit lighter than ideal, but then again you cant teach speed.

it took me a little while to piece it together, but i've come to agree with the early tightend and late fullback. graham is ok, but appears to have the 2nd tightend spot only by default, and could use to be upgraded since we're such a TE heavy team. having another fullback benefits our special teams as well as giving casey more freedom to spread out.

inside linebacker - yall wait until the third round. this is a position that by appearances is traditionally weighted towards late first round or early second. was there not a player here for our first couple of picks? dobbins is surprising a lot of people, but is best as a sub. james, alexander, and the perpetually injured sharpton are very expendable - leaving this one of few real positions of need. we may either need to double up, or look for an earlier pick.

nose tackle, how would yall rate this guy's motor? i'm skeptical of taking a "fat guy" early because of how difficult they are to evaluate, and how little time our current nose is on the field anyways. i would avoid a "project" on the defensive line if at all possible, instead trying to find support behind smith and watt. through 7 games we've yet to allow a rushing touchdown, we're not as bad as some presume up the middle.

First, thanks for reading and taking the time to respond. And I mean that to all of you who have done so thus far. It really is what keeps us motivated.

Now, on to your questions.

Historically, on the group effort mock we dont predict trades. There are simply to many variables to deal with, so we just dont do it. In fact, this was the first year we put in some comp. picks before knowing 100% if/what picks we have. This brings me to the main point- on our mocks, we only take players we think have a good chance of being available. Upon evaluating the potential 2013 draft class, we decided that Woods has a good chance of being available, due to the play of other players. However, even if Woods' stock were to rise, Woods is a player to consider trading up for.

Woods is a very average blocker, as one could assume from his frame. He is no Kevin Walter, but he will stick his nose in there. And to the best of my knowledge, Woods is a quality locker room guy.

I am glad to read that you agree with drafting both a TE and a FB. They will give the offense more potential wrinkles to confuse defenses.

ILB is a huge need, but really the only prospect head and shoulders above Jackson is Te'o, who will be selected well before the Texans pick (he is a potential trade up target). There are other players in the mix, but Jackson will be a starter early on, and will be HUGE in shorring up the run defense. Like we have mentioned, he wont be effective against the pass, but Cushing fills that role well. We only need a 2-down ILB at this point.

If you get a chance, watch the OU/ND game and judge Nix III for yourself. I will say that I have limited concerns about his motor. As with almost any big guy, there is some worry, but to me it is marginalized. He appears to play very motivated this year. And I dont see Nix as a project. Yes, he is young, but he is talented and can play from day 1. Sure his technique and conditioning could use work, but you can say that about most players coming out of college.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

badboy
10-26-2012, 06:02 PM
great mock guys. i dont watch much college ball and try to stay out of the way when discussing the draft, especially because i can only relate to the positions and not the players specifically, but i have a few questions. how likely are these guys to be available when we draft? you mention possibly needing to trade up for woods which is something i supported in the "needs" thread, but trading up is not something we've traditionally done. as for woods, how's the rest of his game (blocking, locker room, etc)? he's a bit lighter than ideal, but then again you cant teach speed.

it took me a little while to piece it together, but i've come to agree with the early tightend and late fullback. graham is ok, but appears to have the 2nd tightend spot only by default, and could use to be upgraded since we're such a TE heavy team. having another fullback benefits our special teams as well as giving casey more freedom to spread out.

inside linebacker - yall wait until the third round. this is a position that by appearances is traditionally weighted towards late first round or early second. was there not a player here for our first couple of picks? dobbins is surprising a lot of people, but is best as a sub. james, alexander, and the perpetually injured sharpton are very expendable - leaving this one of few real positions of need. we may either need to double up, or look for an earlier pick.

nose tackle, how would yall rate this guy's motor? i'm skeptical of taking a "fat guy" early because of how difficult they are to evaluate, and how little time our current nose is on the field anyways. i would avoid a "project" on the defensive line if at all possible, instead trying to find support behind smith and watt. through 7 games we've yet to allow a rushing touchdown, we're not as bad as some presume up the middle.Hey, Scooter, thanks for checking in. Good questions. Availability is a prime consideration & while it is of course impossible to know exactly where a candidate will come in at, our constant watch of other boards, comments by respected" analysts, game action, internet articles, etc. usually gets us close. During this mock as well as others we put together, players moved up and down. Sheldon Richardson as well as our guy Robert Woods moved with Woods dropping as BL stated thru no fault of his own. This actually benefits Texans who realistically should have no shot at this potential franchise WR.

Trade ups: Smithiak has a different mind set than Three Amigos. I think I can speak for my cohorts in that we would trade up more frequently than Gary & Ric. We understand the importance of each pick but if you have "that" player who will impact your roster from day one, we say go get him. How much you pay is the thread of contention among us as well as others. For example, I would not have done the Julio Jones trade, although I had mocked him as a very good WR.

TEs: IMO an excellent WR2 reduces somewhat the need for TEs, but like Woods, if you have the chance to bring in a playmaker like Fiedo, you pull the trigger. Fiedorowicz impacts RBs, protect QB, blocks downfield & presents a huge RZ target. In addition, he can drift and pick up yardage thru the air.

ILB: this draft is weak imo. T'eo & Kevin Minter (LSU) should both be gone, Minter in second. T'eo would trump Woods imo do to dire need; Minter would not and falls to second round but again gone before we select. If you have time to watch him Oct 27th 5pm ESPN3 against Florida International you will be in for a treat if you like hard tackling. Jackson is another Dont'a Hightower & starts day one for Texans. To get that quality in 3rd round is remarkable on this Texans team.

Nicks is running under the radar. I admit I was not watching Notre Dame's defense much as T'eo will go early first. BL gave me heads up and it took about two series to see LN3 is the real deal. Motor? This guy might make Watts look disinterested if you consider his weight comparison and position. He will take blockers away from other linemen and plug the middle allowing the LBs to cheat a bit. My only disappointment will be he could climb forcing me to use a first round. Notre Dame vs Oklahoma Oct 27th 7pm ABC. Also, watch for our other pick on D line in that game.

A guy can be big without being Hainesworth. Nicks replaces Cody and starts day 1. We do exactly as you suggest with Kapron Lewis -Moore DE. I don't know if you can scream on a PM, but that is what I did to BL about KLM "Who is that guy!!" We like Crick but KLM could do more than just challenge him.

OBTW? We are as bad up the middle as many think. Wade Phillips is using smoke & mirrors. Cody age/$ for new contract rules him out.

Appreciate you comments.

Scooter
10-26-2012, 06:19 PM
thanks very much for the quick responses, a couple lines really stood out and sold me on the players. for instance "he's no kevin walter, but he'll stick his nose in there". for all his warts, jacoby jones was the same way and i can think of several big runs from arian where jacoby has his man locked up down the field. similarly not someone to motion as tightend, but if woods has that same want to downfield, i'm on board.

where i'm most surprised is at linebacker. yall conclude that there's teo and then everyone else. if this is the case (and yall's track record speaks for itsself), is there another player in the middle rounds to look at? i keep thinking of this as similar to the 2006 draft. d'brick didnt grade out for the #1, so we instead loaded up in the 3rd round with winston and spencer. since we cant afford teo, is this possibly another "load up later" scenario?

i also disagree with "we only need a 2 down linebacker", we already have a handful of those. in this day of spread and hurry up offenses, nickel has become almost the base defensive formation. we dont have that however, instead going from 3-4 to dime because we lack the personnel for a strong nickel. the missing piece is at linebacker, someone to pair with cushing who can shade tightends as well as support the run game. glover does a great job filling in, but doesnt have the size for the jobs asked of him and would be much better suited staying in the secondary as opposed to pushing over the tightend.

again in that area, cody has almost 1/3 of the snaps as jj watt and 1/2 as many as smith. we arent in our base 3-4 very often, so when evaluating players, i'd put extra weight on their ability in 2-4-5 nickel formations.

rmartin65
10-26-2012, 06:57 PM
where i'm most surprised is at linebacker. yall conclude that there's teo and then everyone else. if this is the case (and yall's track record speaks for itsself), is there another player in the middle rounds to look at? i keep thinking of this as similar to the 2006 draft. d'brick didnt grade out for the #1, so we instead loaded up in the 3rd round with winston and spencer. since we cant afford teo, is this possibly another "load up later" scenario?

i also disagree with "we only need a 2 down linebacker", we already have a handful of those. in this day of spread and hurry up offenses, nickel has become almost the base defensive formation. we dont have that however, instead going from 3-4 to dime because we lack the personnel for a strong nickel. the missing piece is at linebacker, someone to pair with cushing who can shade tightends as well as support the run game. glover does a great job filling in, but doesnt have the size for the jobs asked of him and would be much better suited staying in the secondary as opposed to pushing over the tightend.

again in that area, cody has almost 1/3 of the snaps as jj watt and 1/2 as many as smith. we arent in our base 3-4 very often, so when evaluating players, i'd put extra weight on their ability in 2-4-5 nickel formations.

It really is a weak class at ILB. A guy like Minter (LSU) deserves some hype, but I have not watched enough LSU this year to make a good judgement. The underclassmen Big 10 duo of Bullough (Michigan State) and Borland (Wisconsin) are also ones to watch. All three guys are in 2nd round to 3rd round consideration, but we liked Nix more than them. Then there are guys like Johnson (Alabama) and Mauti (Penn State) that are pretty highly rated, but I am not a fan. Skov in the 3rd is worth a look, but we wrote him off due to a recent DUI. After that, you are getting guys who are rated all over the place.

A guy that has really intrigued me recently is Kenneth Tate from Maryland. He has played pretty much every position during his time as a Terrapin, and while he is being projected as an OLB, I think having him as an ILB would be interesting. I think he could be that nickel LB that you may be looking for, and he could be had in the 5th, as of now.

beerlover
10-26-2012, 08:34 PM
You know there is another LB in our mock?

Etienne Sabino, OLB/Sr. 6030 238 lbs. He is a three down, athletic type who can cover sideline to sideline. We didn't feel the Texans have anyone with similar skill set to Cushing, unless Sharpton returns? Ethinee does have history of injurys, but in a weak class if healthy could have possibly been a second round pick. Lots of potential if he can kick his injury bug. Fundamentally sound wrap up tackler, can read & react in passing lanes plus provide extra pass rusher in Wade Phillips scheme. So in essence we covered ILB position with two different types; a power run stuffer & covererage sack guy. It would be surprising to address this area so heavily but sure would solidify current perceived needs as they stand.

Scooter
10-26-2012, 09:04 PM
You know there is another LB in our mock?

i'm glad you mentioned him. in my bias, i saw OLB and glanced over the report, assuming a late round pass rusher and special teamer. obviously i have more than a bit of tunnel vision (wide receiver, ILB), but etienne per your report does fit a lot of what i'd hope for on sunday - assuming health of course. sounds quite a bit like crick last season. what kind of injury concerns are we looking at? a quick google search doesnt return much.

as for sharpton - never liked him. i didnt see anything coming into the league, posters here like vinny who know linebackers dont see it in him, and he has yet to show it on the field.

WolverineFan
10-26-2012, 09:35 PM
1 Robert Woods WR, USC
- Love this guy. He has a Walter-like knack for getting open on crucial downs. Seems to be a student of the game at WR. Not very many college WRs are so adept at sifting through zones and finding soft spots. I think, lined up across from Andre, we would be lethal on the outside. However, once Andre is gone, Im not sure hes the kind of guy who can carry the WR corp (much like Andre has done) by himself.

*Im very intrigued with his teammate Marquise Lee, but kid is a Soph.


2 Louis Nix DT, Notre Dame
- Not sure if we he will be available at this point. Hes shooting up draft boards right now. Thats if he comes out, BTW. Very disruptive at the point of attack. Could even be considered somewhat of a playmaker, which is odd for a NT. Good pass rusher for his size. Has experience playing in the middle of a 3-man front (not many projected NTs do). Im a fan, but he only comes out if hes going higher than this, IMO.

*You can attribute a lot of Teos success to this guy.


3 C.J. Fiedorowicz TE, Iowa
- Like this guy. He has suffered from poor QB play this year, but already has more receptions this year than last. Good blocker and receiver and has good hands. With the emergence of the spread, guys like this are a dying breed. I dont know what it is about Iowa, but they know TEs. I love complete TEs like this who can contribute in all phases.

* Another TE I like around this part of the draft would be Zach Ertz (Stanford). Not as polished, but has a ton of potential.


(3) Andrew Jackson ILB, Western Kentucky
- Not all too familiar with this guy. I know Saban thinks hes pretty good. Ive heard a lot of positive things about him, but I havent seen him play so Ill refrain from analysis.


4 Lane Johnson OT, Oklahoma
- Good depth candidate. Seems like hed be a good fit as a swing tackle with developmental potential. Agree that he could immediately replace Butler. Seems to have an overall developed game. Not great at anything, but not bad at anything either.


(5) Etienne Sabino OLB, Ohio State
- Ehh. Not a fan of his. Very athletic and flashes playmaking ability, but makes a lot of mistakes. When Michigan played them last year, OSU was starting a true freshman LB with an injured leg at the other LB...UM ran at Sabino anyway (very successfully). He just doesnt seem to have the mental aspect of the game down to me.


(5) Josh Johnson CB, Purdue
- Great pick, love this guy. Extremely underrated prospect. Would be a guy to target as a Quin protge. If we want CBs who can tackle playing Safety, this is a guy to pursue. Very physical and great tackler. I salivate at the thought of drafting this kid.


6 Zach Boren FB, Ohio State
- I hate this kid, so Im obviously biased. I dont really see the need to take a FB here if youve already taken a TE earlier. Daniels, Graham, Casey, & Fiedorowicz all at TE is a logjam if Ive ever seen one. Keeping Casey at FB in this situation just makes sense. I think were better as an offense with an H-Back type guy playing FB anyway.

*The new offense at OSU has limited his offensive snaps so he has played some LB recently. Could be a good ST guy, has the right mentality.


7 Kapron Lewis-Moore DE, Notre Dame
- Meh. Good kid, marginal talent. I guess he could find a niche in the NFL because of specialty, like Jamison has done. Hes been outplayed by better talents at ND already (Stephon Tuitt, So. & Sheldon Day, Fr.). If we go DE Id rather go earlier or grab someone with more potential.

*Keep an eye on the Tuitt kid. Could come out early next year and be the next Watt.


Overall:
I think it works, but it could be better. Obviously I dont agree with taking both a TE and FB. The first 3 picks hit and Johnson is a late gem, IMO. Would like to see another interior OL brought in, but thats not a sticking point. Good job fellas. A lot of hard work and it is appreciated!

*I didnt realize you guys were just drafting from the B1G/ND though. It seems kind of odd to be so B1G heavy in this draft when its the worst the conference has been in years.

beerlover
10-27-2012, 12:52 AM
1 Robert Woods WR, USC
- Love this guy. He has a Walter-like knack for getting open on crucial downs. Seems to be a student of the game at WR. Not very many college WRs are so adept at sifting through zones and finding soft spots. I think, lined up across from Andre, we would be lethal on the outside. However, once Andre is gone, Im not sure hes the kind of guy who can carry the WR corp (much like Andre has done) by himself.

*Im very intrigued with his teammate Marquise Lee, but kid is a Soph.

fairly or unfairly this helps Texans chances of Woods sliding more than he should

2 Louis Nix DT, Notre Dame
- Not sure if we he will be available at this point. Hes shooting up draft boards right now. Thats if he comes out, BTW. Very disruptive at the point of attack. Could even be considered somewhat of a playmaker, which is odd for a NT. Good pass rusher for his size. Has experience playing in the middle of a 3-man front (not many projected NTs do). Im a fan, but he only comes out if hes going higher than this, IMO.

*You can attribute a lot of Teos success to this guy.

you pay attention

3 C.J. Fiedorowicz TE, Iowa
- Like this guy. He has suffered from poor QB play this year, but already has more receptions this year than last. Good blocker and receiver and has good hands. With the emergence of the spread, guys like this are a dying breed. I dont know what it is about Iowa, but they know TEs. I love complete TEs like this who can contribute in all phases.

* Another TE I like around this part of the draft would be Zach Ertz (Stanford). Not as polished, but has a ton of potential.

Ertz isn't as big & physical but I like him too

(3) Andrew Jackson ILB, Western Kentucky
- Not all too familiar with this guy. I know Saban thinks hes pretty good. Ive heard a lot of positive things about him, but I havent seen him play so Ill refrain from analysis.

badboy deserves all the credit for uncovering him

4 Lane Johnson OT, Oklahoma
- Good depth candidate. Seems like hed be a good fit as a swing tackle with developmental potential. Agree that he could immediately replace Butler. Seems to have an overall developed game. Not great at anything, but not bad at anything either.

journeyman written all over him but to Texans a valued commodity

(5) Etienne Sabino OLB, Ohio State
- Ehh. Not a fan of his. Very athletic and flashes playmaking ability, but makes a lot of mistakes. When Michigan played them last year, OSU was starting a true freshman LB with an injured leg at the other LB...UM ran at Sabino anyway (very successfully). He just doesnt seem to have the mental aspect of the game down to me.

you mean hits like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5avxfvqq3Js

(5) Josh Johnson CB, Purdue
- Great pick, love this guy. Extremely underrated prospect. Would be a guy to target as a Quin protge. If we want CBs who can tackle playing Safety, this is a guy to pursue. Very physical and great tackler. I salivate at the thought of drafting this kid.

65 ran with this guy all the way to the bank

6 Zach Boren FB, Ohio State
- I hate this kid, so Im obviously biased. I dont really see the need to take a FB here if youve already taken a TE earlier. Daniels, Graham, Casey, & Fiedorowicz all at TE is a logjam if Ive ever seen one. Keeping Casey at FB in this situation just makes sense. I think were better as an offense with an H-Back type guy playing FB anyway.

*The new offense at OSU has limited his offensive snaps so he has played some LB recently. Could be a good ST guy, has the right mentality.

hard nosed, active, high motor sounds like he fits Texans

7 Kapron Lewis-Moore DE, Notre Dame
- Meh. Good kid, marginal talent. I guess he could find a niche in the NFL because of specialty, like Jamison has done. Hes been outplayed by better talents at ND already (Stephon Tuitt, So. & Sheldon Day, Fr.). If we go DE Id rather go earlier or grab someone with more potential.

*Keep an eye on the Tuitt kid. Could come out early next year and be the next Watt.

if that's the case I would go after Oregon State sophomore Scott Crichton, 8 sacks already, he will be the next Watt

Overall:
I think it works, but it could be better. Obviously I dont agree with taking both a TE and FB. The first 3 picks hit and Johnson is a late gem, IMO. Would like to see another interior OL brought in, but thats not a sticking point. Good job fellas. A lot of hard work and it is appreciated!

*I didnt realize you guys were just drafting from the B1G/ND though. It seems kind of odd to be so B1G heavy in this draft when its the worst the conference has been in years.

Texans track record speaks for itself last draft, Illinois, Ohio State, Michigan State, Nebraska, Purdue all Big 10 schools. Just coincidence I'm sure :cool:

Not even a big Irish fan either, but they get some top kids who want to play for Notre Dame regardless. They hired the wrong Kelly to coach the team, I mean the guy just does nothing for me, very bland I also didn't like the way he left Cincinnati. But anyway moving to specifics.

Texans have yet to replace Vonta Leach in our opinion. Is it just coincidence that Baltimore likes to pilfer free agent Texans? Anyway investing a 6th rd. pick to upgrade the FB position doesn't seem that bad of deal as opposed to 8 million a year. I understand your bitter rivals vs the Ohio State, sorry about that nothing personal. Blocking @ the line of scrimmage is probably my biggest concern or need to address with this team (nitpicking). A blocking FB & blocking TE will solve that, fact is they could also bring some offensive skills to the table a plus. We looked at interior linemen too but good ones go early, have enough projects in development so went high end on defensive side & receiving.

thanks for feedback WolverineFan.

Just out of curiosity what are your thoughts of Denard Robinson?

Wolf6151
10-27-2012, 03:33 AM
I should have gotten to this earlier but have been sick for the last few days so I apologize for this critique being a little late.

1. Woods, great player, instant starter, position of need, what's not to like here. Excellent pick.
2. Nix, good player, love the size and agility for such a big man, keeps his feet moving and pursues the play, good hustle, and doesn't quit on the play. The only thing I see in his technique is that he sometimes needs to bend his knees more and less at the waist but that's nit picking and very coachable. Very good pick. There seem to be alot of DT/NT's in 2013 that fit our system and needs, and this is a good thing.
3. Fiedo, I'm not sure there's a real need at TE in 2013 but I can see this as a BPA kind of pick with future payout in a year or so. Nice pick, no arguments.
3b. Jackson, fills a definite team need and in the proper round. Good player and good productivity. Good pick.
4. Johnson, good future depth at OT/OG, I think he can play both. I had him in a recent, unpublished, mock as well. Added quality depth on the O-line is always a good thing. He's a little bit of a project, needs to add some weight, but looks to have a future in the NFL. Good pick.
5. Sabino, I don't see OLB as a need so I haven't been paying any attention to the position or players and know nothing about him.
5. Johnson, I know very little about him but the little I've read is good and we'll need added CB depth because we'll most likely lose McCain to FA and then move Harris to nickle. Good pick.
6. Boren, I like the player, position, and proper round chosen. A real FB would be nice to have in short yardage/goal line situations. I've got him in my newest mock as well, I'll publish in a couple days. Good pick.
7. Moore, I know nothing about him but I like the position chosen with the injury to Jamison it's a need.

My only surprise is that you guys didn't pick an OG or OT earlier now that we've re-signed Schaub and would like some high quality O-line depth. Overall very good mock.

rmartin65
10-27-2012, 08:03 AM
1 – Robert Woods – WR, USC
- Love this guy. He has a Walter-like knack for getting open on crucial downs. Seems to be a ‘student of the game’ at WR. Not very many college WR’s are so adept at sifting through zones and finding soft spots. I think, lined up across from Andre, we would be lethal on the outside. However, once Andre is gone, I’m not sure he’s the kind of guy who can carry the WR corp (much like Andre has done) by himself.

*I’m very intrigued with his teammate Marquise Lee, but kid is a Soph.


It is hard not to like Woods, but even so, I think you are underselling him a bit. Sure, he wont be dominant like AJ, but who really is? Those guys usually go in the top half of the round. However, I think that Woods can be a serviceable number 1. He has the sublime route running ability to allow him to get open consistently, and has the hands to catch what comes to him. Furthermore, he is a dangerous runner in the open field.

2 – Louis Nix – DT, Notre Dame
- Not sure if we he will be available at this point. He’s shooting up draft boards right now. That’s if he comes out, BTW. Very disruptive at the point of attack. Could even be considered somewhat of a playmaker, which is odd for a NT. Good pass rusher for his size. Has experience playing in the middle of a 3-man front (not many projected NT’s do). I’m a fan, but he only comes out if he’s going higher than this, IMO.

*You can attribute a lot of Teo’s success to this guy.

What you are saying could very well be true. However, as of now, I have him ranked in this range (low 2nd- ranked behind Lotulelei, Hankins and Short in terms of NTs), and I think he could very well leave ND this year. He considered transferring to UF, so he is not 100% satisfied there.


3 – C.J. Fiedorowicz – TE, Iowa
- Like this guy. He has suffered from poor QB play this year, but already has more receptions this year than last. Good blocker and receiver and has good hands. With the emergence of the spread, guys like this are a dying breed. I don’t know what it is about Iowa, but they know TE’s. I love complete TE’s like this who can contribute in all phases.

* Another TE I like around this part of the draft would be Zach Ertz (Stanford). Not as polished, but has a ton of potential.

Excellent.


(3) – Andrew Jackson – ILB, Western Kentucky
- Not all too familiar with this guy. I know Saban thinks he’s pretty good. I’ve heard a lot of positive things about him, but I haven’t seen him play so I’ll refrain from analysis.

He is a good player. Try to get some film on him if you can. WKU sucks, but Jackson always stands out.


4 – Lane Johnson – OT, Oklahoma
- Good depth candidate. Seems like he’d be a good fit as a swing tackle with developmental potential. Agree that he could immediately replace Butler. Seems to have an overall developed game. Not great at anything, but not bad at anything either.
Yeah, we have the same eval.


(5) – Etienne Sabino – OLB, Ohio State
- Ehh. Not a fan of his. Very athletic and flashes playmaking ability, but makes a lot of mistakes. When Michigan played them last year, OSU was starting a true freshman LB with an injured leg at the other LB..….UM ran at Sabino anyway (very successfully). He just doesn’t seem to have the mental aspect of the game down to me.

You would not be biased, would you now Michigan? This late in the draft, we were looking for some talent to develop. Sabino has great athletic talent, but you are right, he still needs some work in becoming a football player. He should play special teams right away while he develops.


(5) – Josh Johnson – CB, Purdue
- Great pick, love this guy. Extremely underrated prospect. Would be a guy to target as a Quin protge. If we want CB’s who can tackle playing Safety, this is a guy to pursue. Very physical and great tackler. I salivate at the thought of drafting this kid.

Solid


6 – Zach Boren – FB, Ohio State
- I hate this kid, so I’m obviously biased. I don’t really see the need to take a FB here if you’ve already taken a TE earlier. Daniels, Graham, Casey, & Fiedorowicz all at TE is a logjam if I’ve ever seen one. Keeping Casey at FB in this situation just makes sense. I think we’re better as an offense with an H-Back type guy playing FB anyway.

*The new offense at OSU has limited his offensive snaps so he has played some LB recently. Could be a good ST guy, has the right mentality.

We would keep Casey as an HB, Boren just takes Clutts' spot on the roster. It is all about adding wrinkles to the offense. Imagine a skill position formation with Casey, Boren, Foster, Fiedo, AJ, and Woods on a second and 2. Do pass? D we run? We could dominate either way.


7 – Kapron Lewis-Moore – DE, Notre Dame
- Meh. Good kid, marginal talent. I guess he could find a niche in the NFL because of specialty, like Jamison has done. He’s been outplayed by better talents at ND already (Stephon Tuitt, So. & Sheldon Day, Fr.). If we go DE I’d rather go earlier or grab someone with more potential.

*Keep an eye on the Tuitt kid. Could come out early next year and be the next Watt.

KLM is a depth/ST player. Hard-worker type with the right frame to play 3-4 DE. Tuitt has potential though, thanks for mentioning that. ND is stacked on D this year, especially on the line.


Overall:
I think it works, but it could be better. Obviously I don’t agree with taking both a TE and FB. The first 3 picks hit and Johnson is a late gem, IMO. Would like to see another interior OL brought in, but that’s not a sticking point. Good job fellas. A lot of hard work and it is appreciated!

*I didn’t realize you guys were just drafting from the B1G/ND though. It seems kind of odd to be so B1G heavy in this draft when it’s the worst the conference has been in years.

I cant speak for the others, but I am not worried about interior OL. Players like Jones and Brooks should be ready to step up next year, and I would expect a FA type to come in like Smith did a few years ago.

As for the Big 10 part- it was unintentional. Still, it makes some sense- look at last year's draft.

Thanks for your thoughts.

rmartin65
10-27-2012, 08:10 AM
I should have gotten to this earlier but have been sick for the last few days so I apologize for this critique being a little late.

1. Woods, great player, instant starter, position of need, what's not to like here. Excellent pick.
2. Nix, good player, love the size and agility for such a big man, keeps his feet moving and pursues the play, good hustle, and doesn't quit on the play. The only thing I see in his technique is that he sometimes needs to bend his knees more and less at the waist but that's nit picking and very coachable. Very good pick. There seem to be alot of DT/NT's in 2013 that fit our system and needs, and this is a good thing.
3. Fiedo, I'm not sure there's a real need at TE in 2013 but I can see this as a BPA kind of pick with future payout in a year or so. Nice pick, no arguments.
3b. Jackson, fills a definite team need and in the proper round. Good player and good productivity. Good pick.
4. Johnson, good future depth at OT/OG, I think he can play both. I had him in a recent, unpublished, mock as well. Added quality depth on the O-line is always a good thing. He's a little bit of a project, needs to add some weight, but looks to have a future in the NFL. Good pick.
5. Sabino, I don't see OLB as a need so I haven't been paying any attention to the position or players and know nothing about him.
5. Johnson, I know very little about him but the little I've read is good and we'll need added CB depth because we'll most likely lose McCain to FA and then move Harris to nickle. Good pick.
6. Boren, I like the player, position, and proper round chosen. A real FB would be nice to have in short yardage/goal line situations. I've got him in my newest mock as well, I'll publish in a couple days. Good pick.
7. Moore, I know nothing about him but I like the position chosen with the injury to Jamison it's a need.

My only surprise is that you guys didn't pick an OG or OT earlier now that we've re-signed Schaub and would like some high quality O-line depth. Overall very good mock.

Hey, no worries. Hope you feel better.

1) Thanks!
2) Yep, we agree
3) We usually carry 3 TEs, so we would go into next year with OD/Graham/Fiedo. Fiedo is the only TE there that can overpower people in the run game.
3) Agreed
4) Would be interested in seeing that mock
5) Sabino was selected because of his athleticism. I agree to an extent with the OLB, but mainly I dont think we need another pass rusher. Sabino is a rounded OLB, who can play in the nickel. Plus, STer.
5) Cool
6) Cool, cant wait for your mock.
7) Cool.

As for your question about OG, look to my above post. We are confident that Jones and Brooks will step up.

Corrosion
10-27-2012, 09:17 AM
Sorry, missed your post.

Well, we initially discussed it by positions- WR, OT, and NT getting the most conversation, although CB was briefly considered.


NT and OL , both guard and RT come to mind for me as potential uses for this years #1 pick.

OL specifically because the pick will more than likely be in the tail end of the round and that is the prime area to get value at RT and the cream of the crop interior guy's.

Add that to the loss of Butler and the right side being "just good enough" I'd really like to see improvement there .... Wade Smith is also aging and will need replacing. (when's his contract up?)
So much of what this offense does is dictated by how well the OL performs .... the running game has suffered significantly with the loss of Briesel and Winston.

NT - Cody's contract expires at the end of the year , I have to wonder if they can afford to keep him. He's also had back issues .... You guy's have filled that spot in round 2 , works for me , solid player who probably contributes early and often.





As for the "need" for Woods, we are projecting him to be a potential future number 1. .

Thats what I was asking ... Is this your eventual replacement for AJ. I can get on board with that decision as it has to be addressed doing it sooner prepares for later.

I just have to wonder .... If one of Jean , Posey or Martin improves greatly over the final half of the season , will they spend that premium pick at the position.

Also in making that pick , someone has to go from this years group .... unless you think they keep six which reduces roster flexability.

Lastly , I have to wonder if Woods is still on the board when the Texans make their choice or if they might make a move up into the top 12 or so for Keenan Allen. (not likely considering the cost)

They havent spent a premium pick at the position in a decade ..... with only Jacoby Jones and Posey drafted in the 3rd or higher since AJ. Probably time they do ....


ILB is another spot I would consider spending a #1 on ..... Bradie James has been "Ok" and Cushing should return .... but behind them you have Dobbins who has filled in admirably and Sharpton .... who's done nothing , ever.
Just dont see an ILB who would be available when they pick that would be good value.

rmartin65
10-27-2012, 09:35 AM
NT and OL , both guard and RT come to mind for me as potential uses for this years #1 pick.

OL specifically because the pick will more than likely be in the tail end of the round and that is the prime area to get value at RT and the cream of the crop interior guy's.

Add that to the loss of Butler and the right side being "just good enough" I'd really like to see improvement there .... Wade Smith is also aging and will need replacing. (when's his contract up?)
So much of what this offense does is dictated by how well the OL performs .... the running game has suffered significantly with the loss of Briesel and Winston.

NT - Cody's contract expires at the end of the year , I have to wonder if they can afford to keep him. He's also had back issues .... You guy's have filled that spot in round 2 , works for me , solid player who probably contributes early and often.






Thats what I was asking ... Is this your eventual replacement for AJ. I can get on board with that decision as it has to be addressed doing it sooner prepares for later.

I just have to wonder .... If one of Jean , Posey or Martin improves greatly over the final half of the season , will they spend that premium pick at the position.

Also in making that pick , someone has to go from this years group .... unless you think they keep six which reduces roster flexability.

Lastly , I have to wonder if Woods is still on the board when the Texans make their choice or if they might make a move up into the top 12 or so for Keenan Allen. (not likely considering the cost)

They havent spent a premium pick at the position in a decade ..... with only Jacoby Jones and Posey drafted in the 3rd or higher since AJ. Probably time they do ....


ILB is another spot I would consider spending a #1 on ..... Bradie James has been "Ok" and Cushing should return .... but behind them you have Dobbins who has filled in admirably and Sharpton .... who's done nothing , ever.
Just dont see an ILB who would be available when they pick that would be good value.

I think the prime OGs will be gone by the time we pick, and also, I am quite high on Brooks, and to a lesser extent Jones, and think he will be ready to start next year. As for RT, I could see going with one there. Matthews is definitely on my watch list.

However, we decided that Woods presents greater value. All things even, I rate a number 1 WR more than a number 1 RT. If one of the young WRs step up, then this obviously changes. I have doubts on that happening though.

I think the Texans can go with 6 WRs, since they all bring a little something different. AJ is the beast, Woods the future, Walter is Mr. Reliable, Jean is the big target, Martin is the returner/slot guy and Posey.., well, it sounds like the FO is high on the guy. If they are right (and obviously I hope they are) then WR becomes less of a need. By the end of the season/playoffs, we should have a better idea of Posey's future.

Re Keenan- personally, I like Woods better, but looking around the web and talking to people I seem to be in the minority. Thus, I think Allen goes before Woods, but I think we get the better player in this scenario.

I think you answered yourself on ILB. While we would like to address the position earlier, there is simply no value. Te'o will be gone, although I would trade up for him if possible. The others all have some question marks, and we all like how Jackson fits in the 3rd.

beerlover
10-27-2012, 09:51 AM
NT and OL , both guard and RT come to mind for me as potential uses for this years #1 pick.

OL specifically because the pick will more than likely be in the tail end of the round and that is the prime area to get value at RT and the cream of the crop interior guy's.

Add that to the loss of Butler and the right side being "just good enough" I'd really like to see improvement there .... Wade Smith is also aging and will need replacing. (when's his contract up?)
So much of what this offense does is dictated by how well the OL performs .... the running game has suffered significantly with the loss of Briesel and Winston.

I've felt the same way about this for years, then along comes a 7th rd. pick, becomes a starter who is growing into role week after week. Ben Jones, 4th rd. is a stud, who will probably be the starting Center in next three or four years, until then I don't see Caldwell getting his old job back, so he leaves & opens up a spot for last years 3rd rd. pick Brooks. Texans can acquire another un-drafted free agent who fits ZBS (smaller,quicker) either LG or RG. Keep the continuity established this season while building for the future with young OL already in waiting.

NT - Cody's contract expires at the end of the year , I have to wonder if they can afford to keep him. He's also had back issues .... You guy's have filled that spot in round 2 , works for me , solid player who probably contributes early and often.

first off don't think resigning Cody will break the bank. Texans will make a fair offer to set him up for life, yet within reason for what he means to this team. I think they will agree on a three year deal with player/team option for last year. This will safeguard position & allow time for draft pick to develop.

Thats what I was asking ... Is this your eventual replacement for AJ. I can get on board with that decision as it has to be addressed doing it sooner prepares for later.

I just have to wonder .... If one of Jean , Posey or Martin improves greatly over the final half of the season , will they spend that premium pick at the position.

Also in making that pick , someone has to go from this years group .... unless you think they keep six which reduces roster flexability.

Lastly , I have to wonder if Woods is still on the board when the Texans make their choice or if they might make a move up into the top 12 or so for Keenan Allen. (not likely considering the cost)

They havent spent a premium pick at the position in a decade ..... with only Jacoby Jones and Posey drafted in the 3rd or higher since AJ. Probably time they do ....

Your right, its time. I want to also see Andre flourish. A big reason why his numbers have dropped is because he has been flying solo, while still doing a lot of the dirty work. Texans need a big time threat who knows how to get open & take the top off the defense. Andre will always be #1 long as he is a Texan. What I look @ is a team like the Giants who have a #1 in Hakeem Nicks (their Andre Johnson) & probably the best #2 in the NFL (Victor Cruz). Very hard for teams to defend both & it spreads the defense & keeps teams from crowding the box to focus shutting down Foster & the running game.

is another spot I would consider spending a #1 on ..... Bradie James has been "Ok" and Cushing should return .... but behind them you have Dobbins who has filled in admirably and Sharpton .... who's done nothing , ever.
Just dont see an ILB who would be available when they pick that would be good value.

T'eo is the #1 prospect on our Texan Big Board, no argument, but like Von Miller, Earl Thomas, Joe Haden & others who have been favorites of this board @ positions of need will be long gone by the time Texans select. Trading up can work, just look at RG3 or Julio Jones but you better be right or you can set your program back 2 or 3 years. We liked Shayne Skov, Stanford, if Jackson is gone & he is still on the board in the 3rd he would be a good choice, close to BPA & fill a priority need.

WolverineFan
10-27-2012, 10:25 AM
Texans track record speaks for itself last draft, Illinois, Ohio State, Michigan State, Nebraska, Purdue all Big 10 schools. Just coincidence I'm sure :cool:

Not even a big Irish fan either, but they get some top kids who want to play for Notre Dame regardless. They hired the wrong Kelly to coach the team, I mean the guy just does nothing for me, very bland I also didn't like the way he left Cincinnati. But anyway moving to specifics.

Texans have yet to replace Vonta Leach in our opinion. Is it just coincidence that Baltimore likes to pilfer free agent Texans? Anyway investing a 6th rd. pick to upgrade the FB position doesn't seem that bad of deal as opposed to 8 million a year. I understand your bitter rivals vs the Ohio State, sorry about that nothing personal. Blocking @ the line of scrimmage is probably my biggest concern or need to address with this team (nitpicking). A blocking FB & blocking TE will solve that, fact is they could also bring some offensive skills to the table a plus. We looked at interior linemen too but good ones go early, have enough projects in development so went high end on defensive side & receiving.

thanks for feedback WolverineFan.

Just out of curiosity what are your thoughts of Denard Robinson?

I'm not going with numbers on Tuitt. Watch him play. He's legit.

And the B1G/ND thing was just a jab at you guys. Wasn't being serious.

And yes, I am obviously bitter toward OSU prospects. But I will admit when they are legit prospects. I was outspoken about the Posey pick last year, but that was because I thought it was too early. Could have waited and gotten better value. As for Sabino, I watch OSU closely obviously. He's never been the best LB on his own team. I think he's limited.

As for Denard. Love the guy, great kid. Not an NFL QB obviously. Will be a Dexter McCluster type at the next level. I would have him return kicks and play RB/WR. Much more RB than WR though. If used correctly he could be very, very dangerous.

Here's a clip of him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmnjDokCE2E

The LB getting whiffed is.....Sabino. :shades:

steelbtexan
10-27-2012, 10:31 AM
Soory I haven't had time to respond.

1. Like Woods alot, Like Patterson even more. Same speed, bigger jsut as fast if not faster, great KR/PR guy. just like Woods.
2. Nix, love this pick.
3. Fideo, Give me an ILB like Klien or Knott here. This is a deep draft for TE's. My sleeper guy that can probably be drafted later is Nick Kasa from Colorado.
3. Jackson, I haven't seen Jackson play, but if Saban likes him that speaks volumes. Bama is becoming the new LB U
4.L. Johnson, Good developmental OL, alot like Stephenson was last yr. I put a higher value on OL depth than most.
5.Sabino, he is a guy who can really contribute on ST's (Lord knows the ST's need help.) and could develop into a starting LB. He has the athletic ability. Great pick for this late in the draft. (Very realistic)
5.J. Johnson, Very good developmental CB, He could be a late rd nickle CB like McCain. Upgrades the ST's at the very least. Great pick.
6. Boren, Like the player/position, Every yr we mock a FB for the Texans, when is the last time the Texans have drafted a FB?
7.Lewis-Moore, I've watched ND quite a bit and Lewis Moore hasn't stood out. Give me a guy like Baker Steinkuhler (Could be an old time Oiler homer) or Dave Kruger from Utah. (Both are sons of former NFL players. Or a RB (You can never have too many) like Rex Burkhead, who is a very underrated RB, who could be a big help on ST's.\

Great job once again guys, you did a great job of mixing needs with developmental guys. ST'problems need and can be addressed thru the draft. This is the bggest weakness on this yrs team. IMHO

Your mock addresses this in a big way. Woods,Jackson,Sabino,,J.Johnson and Boren would be huge upgrades on the ST's compared to what Coach Joe (Needs to go) is currently running out there.

Corrosion
10-27-2012, 10:40 AM
I think the prime OGs will be gone by the time we pick, and also, I am quite high on Brooks, and to a lesser extent Jones, and think he will be ready to start next year. As for RT, I could see going with one there. Matthews is definitely on my watch list.

Im higher on Jones than Brooks .... and agree with BL , he'll be the starter at C eventually and Caldwell has no shot at getting that spot back barring injury.

Im not sold on Newton .... inconsistent is the word I'd use to describe him.



However, we decided that Woods presents greater value. All things even, I rate a number 1 WR more than a number 1 RT. If one of the young WRs step up, then this obviously changes. I have doubts on that happening though.

In nost offensive scheme's I wouldnt argue this point .... but everything this offense does is based off of the OL performing to perfection.

Who knows , maybe Newton continues to get better as the season goes along and my worries there are not justified.

I think the Texans can go with 6 WRs, since they all bring a little something different. AJ is the beast, Woods the future, Walter is Mr. Reliable, Jean is the big target, Martin is the returner/slot guy and Posey.., well, it sounds like the FO is high on the guy. If they are right (and obviously I hope they are) then WR becomes less of a need. By the end of the season/playoffs, we should have a better idea of Posey's future.

They went with 6 out of the gate this year .... but have had to make adjustments due to injury and trycycle not performing. I could see them doing it again .... but it does take a roster spot from a 3rd qb or another db / lb.


Re Keenan- personally, I like Woods better, but looking around the web and talking to people I seem to be in the majority. Thus, I think Allen goes before Woods, but I think we get the better player in this scenario.

misprint ?!?

I like Allen's combination of size and speed .... really close to AJ's size and a physical player in the same mold.

TBH I'd be fine with either of them at this point .... tho thats subject to change as the season goes on and their combine performances.


I think you answered yourself on ILB. While we would like to address the position earlier, there is simply no value. Te'o will be gone, although I would trade up for him if possible. The others all have some question marks, and we all like how Jackson fits in the 3rd.

Yeah , thats what it boils down to .... no value.

Then again , say T'eo drops out of the top 15 .... might have to consider making a move for him from 16 on .... hypothetical I know ....


I've felt the same way about this for years, then along comes a 7th rd. pick, becomes a starter who is growing into role week after week. Ben Jones, 4th rd. is a stud, who will probably be the starting Center in next three or four years, until then I don't see Caldwell getting his old job back, so he leaves & opens up a spot for last years 3rd rd. pick Brooks. Texans can acquire another un-drafted free agent who fits ZBS (smaller,quicker) either LG or RG. Keep the continuity established this season while building for the future with young OL already in waiting.

As I said above , so much of what they do is dictated by the OL's performance and Im not sold on Newton being the long term answer there tho with the salary cap issues he's a cheap option for now and maybe he improves enough to shut me up ....



first off don't think resigning Cody will break the bank. Texans will make a fair offer to set him up for life, yet within reason for what he means to this team. I think they will agree on a three year deal with player/team option for last year. This will safeguard position & allow time for draft pick to develop.

I get the feeling that will be the case too .... the issue being his health long term tho.
He has afterall been the most consistent DL on the roster over the past couple seasons - with the exception of JJ Watt from midseason last year till the present.



Your right, its time. I want to also see Andre flourish. A big reason why his numbers have dropped is because he has been flying solo, while still doing a lot of the dirty work. Texans need a big time threat who knows how to get open & take the top off the defense. Andre will always be #1 long as he is a Texan. What I look @ is a team like the Giants who have a #1 in Hakeem Nicks (their Andre Johnson) & probably the best #2 in the NFL (Victor Cruz). Very hard for teams to defend both & it spreads the defense & keeps teams from crowding the box to focus shutting down Foster & the running game.

You make a good point with the NYG comment .... I wouldnt argue against one of the top WR prospects in this draft .... unless one of a select few players were to fall in the Texans lap.



T'eo is the #1 prospect on our Texan Big Board, no argument, but like Von Miller, Earl Thomas, Joe Haden & others who have been favorites of this board @ positions of need will be long gone by the time Texans select. Trading up can work, just look at RG3 or Julio Jones but you better be right or you can set your program back 2 or 3 years. We liked Shayne Skov, Stanford, if Jackson is gone & he is still on the board in the 3rd he would be a good choice, close to BPA & fill a priority need.

Cant argue with any of this ..... tho I might have Hankins (Ohoi St. NT) as #1 overall on my board but there is no way they have a shot at him ..... its real close between he and T'eo. Tho I think you get better value with Jenkins , NT from Georgia in the middle of the round.

beerlover
10-27-2012, 10:58 AM
We really appreciate all our fellow texanstalk members opinions & feedback, you guys are the reason we take the time to do this :bravo:

I see the OU ND game is not on until 7:00pm tonight so we have some time to think about this prior to what happens, but is it me or does Landry Jones remind anyone else of Matt Schaub? I watched some of Matt's games when he was still @ Virginia & his limited athleticism was on display back then but damn he could throw the rock down the field & pick apart a defense. I see so much in common between the two, even personality wise, that if he falls into late 2nd rd. would Kubiak not be tempted? I know it's outrageous to those of us who want to address other positions but if you have a big board & he is the highest rated player who fits what you currently do, maybe take a look?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxkHVv-J5n4

steelbtexan
10-27-2012, 11:54 AM
If Jones or Bray were to fall to the Texans pick in the 2nd rd I would take them in a heartbeat.

I dont think Gary will since Schaub just reupped.

A grear WR would help this team get better faster than any other position. A WR falling can happen. NicksWayne fell to late in the 1st rd. Many WR1 were picked after the 1st rd.

V.Jackson/Marshall/Nelson/Garcon/S.Smith etc... so there will be talent there the Texans just have to find it. Dobson is another favorite of mine.

badboy
10-27-2012, 03:44 PM
Just some thoughts from everyone's posts:

Casey is a free agent this off season & while I do expect him to be re-signed, I think Fiedo and Boren are insurance policies in addition to good players. Graham is FA after '13.

Wade Smith will be 32 next season but @ only $3m. I just don't see him being moved off roster.

QB? I don't see a 2nd round sitting on PS with Matt locked in and doing very good. Yates could be beat out & could be trade bait I guess. Rather than 3 QBs, I can see Gary going again with 6 WRs. Martin on returns, Jean (make it or break in '13) and Posey (same).

CBA's flat salary cap will again force hard decisions by team and by FAs to accept lesser deals.

beerlover
10-27-2012, 05:43 PM
Correction, Zach Boren is also now playing MLB for Ohio State (4th week) looking natural. Next James Casey? who was a 5th rd. pick by the Texans. That's 3 LB prospects in this draft :)

aussie_texan
10-27-2012, 10:09 PM
:bravo: :goodpost:

Great mock guys. I have not looked to much into the draft this year, probably because the texans have been doing so well.
But seen as its bye week i thought i might get involved.

Dont know much about the players you have selected but from your descriptions obviously a lot has been put into this and it shows.

The only positions i have really seen is WR and TE.
The only top reciver i have not seen is Williams for Baylor and its seems like a lot of people are talking this guy up. what are your opinions on him?????

secondly, eifert and sims are arguably the top rated TEs, i got to see a ND game down here (Te'o looked amazing and that d-line is very strong but i didnt get to pinpoint Nix to much, but it was probably mostly him) and eifert looked pretty good, not exceptional though. what are your thoughts on these to guys (sims and eifert)??


again great stuff guys!!!!!!!!

Wolf6151
10-28-2012, 01:50 AM
The only positions i have really seen is WR and TE.
The only top reciver i have not seen is Williams for Baylor and its seems like a lot of people are talking this guy up. what are your opinions on him?????



I can't help you on the TE's haven't been watching them much. As for Terrance Williams, I thought he might have a down year because RGIII went to the NFL and Baylor would be starting with a new QB but that was sure wrong. Williams is having a very good year and has the size and speed most teams drool over. His write up by Walterfootball sounds perfect for the Texans and he'll probably be a late 1st round talent. :fans:

steelbtexan
10-28-2012, 02:44 AM
I can't help you on the TE's haven't been watching them much. As for Terrance Williams, I thought he might have a down year because RGIII went to the NFL and Baylor would be starting with a new QB but that was sure wrong. Williams is having a very good year and has the size and speed most teams drool over. His write up by Walterfootball sounds perfect for the Texans and he'll probably be a late 1st round talent. :fans:

Williams is Josh Gordon talent wise.

But this is an above avg yr for WR's a talent will fall to the mid 2nd rd. When this happens the Texans should be ready to pounce. Especially since the Texans have a 3rd rd comp pick. They should make trading up a priority.) IMHO

This draft should be about finding 4 guys that can play. (Just like any yr) Be it on offense or defense. The rest of the 2 or 3 picks should be used to improve ST's. (Coach Joe must go.)

badboy
10-28-2012, 09:04 PM
Just something to think about, what if Texans do not need a receiver? Although we are #18 in passing yardage, we are 6-1. TE Daniels is only one reception behind AJ (34-33).

Johnson: 34/444 @ 13.1 with 2 TDs
Daniels : 33/416 @ 12.8 with 4 TDs
Walter : 19/279 @ 14.7 with 2 TDs

RBs 22/143

Can we go with that for another year and then choose WR?

If a stud falls to us, probably grab him. That was my thought with Woods. If a franchise type player drops in your lap at any position, catch him. (pun intended).

aussie_texan
10-29-2012, 05:48 AM
Williams is Josh Gordon talent wise.

But this is an above avg yr for WR's a talent will fall to the mid 2nd rd. When this happens the Texans should be ready to pounce. Especially since the Texans have a 3rd rd comp pick. They should make trading up a priority.) IMHO

This draft should be about finding 4 guys that can play. (Just like any yr) Be it on offense or defense. The rest of the 2 or 3 picks should be used to improve ST's. (Coach Joe must go.)

what are his hands like? first thing i look for is a WR that attacks the ball hands out and is very reliable.

aussie_texan
10-29-2012, 05:51 AM
Just something to think about, what if Texans do not need a receiver? Although we are #18 in passing yardage, we are 6-1. TE Daniels is only one reception behind AJ (34-33).

Johnson: 34/444 @ 13.1 with 2 TDs
Daniels : 33/416 @ 12.8 with 4 TDs
Walter : 19/279 @ 14.7 with 2 TDs

RBs 22/143

Can we go with that for another year and then choose WR?

If a stud falls to us, probably grab him. That was my thought with Woods. If a franchise type player drops in your lap at any position, catch him. (pun intended).

I have to agree with this. Its not a massive need in my opinion mainly because we play so much 2 WR sets. considering how well walter is playing and that we drafted 2 this year not including jean. i would like to see another year with the group we have.
but as you said if a stud Wideout falls then you probably go after him...we are in a great position to just go BPA!

i would prefer us to go with after a top TE to bolster that group considering there isnt a lot after OD and i like casey as the H-back.
OD is getting older and will start to cost a lot against the cap. it may be the time to groom an heir to OD rather then AJ at this time

badboy
10-29-2012, 02:14 PM
I have to agree with this. Its not a massive need in my opinion mainly because we play so much 2 WR sets. considering how well walter is playing and that we drafted 2 this year not including jean. i would like to see another year with the group we have.
but as you said if a stud Wideout falls then you probably go after him...we are in a great position to just go BPA!

i would prefer us to go with after a top TE to bolster that group considering there isnt a lot after OD and i like casey as the H-back.
OD is getting older and will start to cost a lot against the cap. it may be the time to groom an heir to OD rather then AJ at this timeOD is 29 and could easily have a 1,000 yd season. I think Graham is perfect third TE. I prefer to see Casey more at TE rather than FB. Amigos picked Fiedo due to his size/skills as a blocker and a decent receiver who could replace Garrett Graham.

steelbtexan
10-29-2012, 04:31 PM
what are his hands like? first thing i look for is a WR that attacks the ball hands out and is very reliable.

I got to watch him in person against UT his hands appeared to be good. He is a hands catcher. Has real good speed and appears to be real good at high pointing the ball.

Positive: Briles says Williams is one of the hardest workers he's been around.

Negative: Not real sudden in and out of his breaks.

Specnatz
10-29-2012, 04:59 PM
:bravo: :goodpost:

secondly, eifert and sims are arguably the top rated TEs, i got to see a ND game down here (Te'o looked amazing and that d-line is very strong but i didnt get to pinpoint Nix to much, but it was probably mostly him) and eifert looked pretty good, not exceptional though. what are your thoughts on these to guys (sims and eifert)??


again great stuff guys!!!!!!!!

I really need to watch more on sims, work and all. Eifert will look not exceptional do to the QB play. Golson is a hybrib QB and his passing is slowly progressing. If you watch Eifert when Reese is playing you will see a huge difference in his pass catching. He can catch as well as OD and block better than Dressen. That is one area that makes him a first rounder in my opinion. Since he excels at catching and blocking, versus only one facet.

beerlover
10-30-2012, 10:12 AM
I really need to watch more on sims, work and all. Eifert will look not exceptional do to the QB play. Golson is a hybrib QB and his passing is slowly progressing. If you watch Eifert when Reese is playing you will see a huge difference in his pass catching. He can catch as well as OD and block better than Dressen. That is one area that makes him a first rounder in my opinion. Since he excels at catching and blocking, versus only one facet.

Eifert will carry a first round grade next April unless something tragic happens.

TimeKiller
10-31-2012, 07:27 AM
You guys are killing me with this Mike Martin from Michig......


...lol. Nice draft. Maybe a little LBer heavy but I like it! Y'all are on top of the college game. I'll be more in depth when pro-football is over!

badboy
10-31-2012, 09:44 AM
Thanks TK. Watching college football intensifies the NFL games for me. I use to wait until the draft and use other peoples info to establish my draft. Quickly realised that what others see and my evaluation is quite different. If interested & you have time pick a college game or two to evaluate about mid season.

steelbtexan
10-31-2012, 10:57 AM
You guys are killing me with this Mike Martin from Michig......


...lol. Nice draft. Maybe a little LBer heavy but I like it! Y'all are on top of the college game. I'll be more in depth when pro-football is over!

LB's help the ST's, Lord knows the Texans could use the help.

TimeKiller
10-31-2012, 11:59 AM
LB's help the ST's, Lord knows the Texans could use the help.

I guess. I think if I was coach I would be looking for a guy who could kick the damn ball into the endzone every time.

beerlover
10-31-2012, 12:34 PM
I guess. I think if I was coach I would be looking for a guy who could kick the damn ball into the endzone every time.

remember Texans used a 5th last year on Randy Bullock. expect his leg/groin to heal & strengthen. :polevault:

welsh texan
11-02-2012, 09:38 AM
Good work guys, made a really good read.

I can't help but feel that we may have a few more needs than we expect come draft time because I think we're hitting the cap ceiling pretty hard again this offseason (both Walter and AJ took significant paycuts this off-season, plus still plenty of guys hitting FA who are quality depth/in the rotation at various positions)

I reckon we'll be seeing a couple more guys get cut this offseason. I'm pretty sure AJ's contract alone goes up by something like $8-9 million next season, if the cap is level, they gotta make some moves.

Maybe thats letting Barwin walk in FA which would be a difficult decision to make, maybe thats cutting Antonio Smith who's contract makes him cuttable if you believe the money is better used elsewhere.

Quin is also up for FA too isn't he? And McCain who's a damn good nickel corner.

I personally doubt we see much pure BPA moving forward, I think they have to employ a mixture stacked towards need/future need.

badboy
11-02-2012, 03:38 PM
Good work guys, made a really good read.

I can't help but feel that we may have a few more needs than we expect come draft time because I think we're hitting the cap ceiling pretty hard again this offseason (both Walter and AJ took significant paycuts this off-season, plus still plenty of guys hitting FA who are quality depth/in the rotation at various positions)

I reckon we'll be seeing a couple more guys get cut this offseason. I'm pretty sure AJ's contract alone goes up by something like $8-9 million next season, if the cap is level, they gotta make some moves.

Maybe thats letting Barwin walk in FA which would be a difficult decision to make, maybe thats cutting Antonio Smith who's contract makes him cuttable if you believe the money is better used elsewhere.

Quin is also up for FA too isn't he? And McCain who's a damn good nickel corner.

I personally doubt we see much pure BPA moving forward, I think they have to employ a mixture stacked towards need/future need.Good discussion points. I do not see either Smith leaving before contract expires. We may have a replacement for Wade & he may not re-sign but will play out 2013 @$3m. Antonio is high @$6m +2.1m bonus for an $8m cap but could see that reworked like AJ's to lower and extend. Ninja is playing very well and just turned 31 Oct 21st. I could see him getting a 2-3 year extension @ about $3m with upfront cash. I doubt anyone thinks Jared Crick is ready to replace him.

I see Quin renewing with Houston but McCain gone. Harris should step in.

AJ's is not as bad as you state (fortunately), in 2010 new contract was 7 year 62.7m but bonus was only $2.8m up front ($10m in incentatives) so his cap is about his annual base. 2013 $6.2m & 2013 $6.5m. He was guaranteed $48m - $2.8 (signing)= $45.2. When he recently agreed to rework deal he got $5.2m cash lowering his cap hit again. I think he got about $6.2m for 2012 so 45.2m-6.2= $39m still remaining guaranteed. He also gets $1m annually "workout bonus". In 2015 he jumps to $10.5m. All reasonable rates for his type WR.

We will lose some guys like McCain, Cody, Caldwell (probably), Alan Ball, etc; we should have replacements ready. Others like Ryan Harris, Forsett, Nading, Dobbins, Demps are bubble players.

Barwin is gone imo regardless how he performs remainder of this year. I would not be surprised to see a OLB/DE selected again first pick. *Dion Jordan Oregon is being rated about where we should select.

beerlover
11-03-2012, 08:57 AM
Premise of any mock draft this early is just to have some fun with it. In this instance to give Texan fans something to discuss during the "BYE WEEK" (6,000 + views).

Bottom line need consensus suggests most of us agree the two priority needs are strengthening middle of Wade Phillips defense, adding quality Nose/ILB (we have both) & elite WR opposite Andre Johnson to extend top of defenses & spread weapons downfield which in turn opens running lanes for Foster & Co. Third fascett is grabbing good value for the OL to maintain reliable depth & starting rotation within salary cap limitations.

TE is outside the box thinking, but if you followed posts already know we feel a combination of plus blocker/receiver could jump start this offense much as elite WR would both of which are excellent targets end of 1st three rounds.

Now it's back to business & regular scheduled programing, "Game On" Texans vs Bills & Mario Williams :logo:

Doppelganger
11-03-2012, 10:37 PM
Greetings fellow Texans, Draft Gurus & friends. This has become a ritual of sorts, to study, dialogue, agree to disagree & pound some sense out of next years draft, 2013, to see Texans continue to flourish, re-tool & hopefully become next NFL dynasty. The three Amigos (Badboy; rmartin65; beerlover;)) come from different backgrounds & have different viewpoints but we all share a common goal, to put out the best mock draft (both realistic, intuitive & honestly) our fellow fans will appreciate. If not for mods who brought us this forum & admins like Hookem Horns none of this would be possible & friendships like this never formed. Thank You. This Mock Draft is based on BPA (best player available) @ position of need.


First Round: Robert Woods, WR/Jr. 6010 190 lbs. USC

Woods along with Matt Barkley, choose to stay @ USC even during sanctions, forging ahead on record pace refining their craft, big ups. Despite that Woods remains under- the radar behind super sophomore sensation Marqise Lee on his own team. Woods now has the look of a seasoned, refined route runner in pro-system, putting up eye popping numbers (64 receptions as a true freshman, 111 receptions as sophomore, so far 44 receptions this year through only 7 games) In fact Woods set single game records, for USC, with 4 touchdowns against Arizona while going past all time school record for receptions with 217. Woods would fill a similar role with Texans as the #2 WR behind it's star while already familiar with west coast system run by Kubiak making it a more seamless transition than most rookies entering NFL. Robert would also be a time saver, creating separation quickly for Schaub in pass pro (becoming 1st option in reads) if Schaub gets in trouble Woods is also adept @ working back to his QB. Teams will no longer double team Andre Johnson. Must also add & this is a very important distinction: we are not attempting to replace Andre Johnson (not sure that is even possible) what we are advocating is adding a dynamic complimentary sidekick, someone with both track speed (4.4) great instincts tracking the ball, vertical, hands, running routes & ability to run after catch.

Note: In Texan War Room it was discussed trading up in last years draft (Mercilus) however they rolled the dice & let the draft/player come to them. This year may be the year (compensatory picks cannot be used in trades but can use own picks) to target specific player in this case it is our opinion Robert Woods would be that player.

Second Round: Louis Nix III, NT/rSoph. 6030 330 lbs. Notre Dame

Dominates the center, engages double teams, keep pad level low with natural knee bend & strength. Very quick & explosive to meet & greet the QB or RB in the backfield. Plus measurable for NFL NT position. Still raw but smooth athlete has rare combination of size/speed. Would add beef & playmkaing stops inside, keep LB's clean like he does for Te'o, & personality ready made for showtime in the big's. Questions of his return to Notre Dame this past off season along with probably a second round grade from NFL advisory board in January will probably prompt him to come out early. Hence we are getting in line early to address the interior of this Texan DL.

Third Round (Texans) C.J. Fiedorowicz, TE/Jr. 6060 265 lbs. Iowa

Hard to move off his feet when in pass pro or while in receiving route, established position & uses body to effectively wall off defender. Pronounced (Fee doh roh wiz) his father was a power lifter who started him on weights in 8th grade. "FIEDO" is a very good blocker who will protect Matt Schaub, besides added pass pro he can seal the edge or open large seams for Foster, Tate & company. Excellent target in Red Zone or first down scenarios. Very good hands with 21 for 213 yds with 5 games left. Follows long line of Hawkeyes tight ends: Dallas Clark, Tony Moeaki, Brandon Myers and Scott Chandler. Foundation, three down blocking TE with ability to transform into a dangerous offensive weapon disguising either run or passing options.

Third Round (Mario Williams compensatory pick - could be in danger of downgrading this pick due to his lack of production - subject to change) Andrew Jackson, ILB/Jr. 6010 262 lbs. Western Kentucky

Has been compared to Jack Lambert due to his physical play. Alabama Nick Saban said "He's a thumper, plays well, takes on blocker; a really good tackler. I have a lot of respect for him." Jackson once scolded a teammate who eased up as runner headed for sidelines. He only knows how to play 100%. Reminds of first round pick Dont'a Hightower. Could start day one, but will need to learn Wade Phillips system & earn his place on team. He possess the ideal blend of size/speed to play ILB. Andrew has the downhill physical nature to relieve Brian of extreme physical demands or putting him in back too soon as Cushing comes off rehabilitation providing extra insurance as well a starting running mate in the middle for the future.

Fourth Round: Lane Johnson, OT/Sr. 6060 303 lbs. Oklahoma

Athletic, swing tackle to groom who has developed (through excellent coaching) into OU's best OL. He fills one of the Texan tackle requirements in that he is a converted TE (also QB/DT). Has started both RT & LT. Has plus length arms (35") & strong hands to control speed rushers & has natural knee bend to adjust body in front of assignment. Adequate in both pass pro & run blocking, could fit in ZBS. With his upside & Texans need for depth @ position (Butler is probably done) we have upgraded his stock to end of 4th rd. He should make this roster & back up Brown while Harris backs up Newton. Could also get reps @ LG to add depth behind Wade Smith. Athletic, versatile, smart, Lane is from Groveton Texas & is Academic All-Big 12 first team.

Fifth Round: (Texans) Etienne Sabino, OLB/Sr. 6030 238 lbs. The Ohio State

Five star prep recruit who choose Buckeyes over football powers like USC, Miami & Florida. Special teams player first two seasons before breaking into starting lineup as a Junior finishing fifth on the team with 62 tackles and 6.5 tackles for loss. Through the first six games, the senior ranked third on the team with 37 tackles before breaking Fibula which probably cost him going a round or two higher in 2013 draft. His style of play is reminiscent of Brian Cushing, very athletic, great range, downhill blitzer who finishes his tackles. ES could flip inside or play some OLB, adds depth to LB position & someone to learn & shadow Cushing. Depth & special teams, unique athlete.

Fifth Round: (compensatory for Brisiel/Jacoby) Josh Johnson, CB/FS/Sr. 5110 195 lbs. Purdue

A team can never have enough young talent and depth in the defensive backfield. A good-sized corner with excellent tackling skills and on-field awareness, Josh Johnson could play either CB or FS for the Texans in 2013. While he does not have the wow speed that the elite prospects have, Johnson is somehow always around the ball, totaling 64 tackles, 9 batted passes and 2 picks last year, and 25 tackles, 8 batted passes and 3 picks in 7 games this year. Furthermore, he fits the Texans mold, having been named to the Big 10 academic team two years running.

Sixth Round: Zach Boren, FB/Sr. 6001 252 lbs. The Ohio State

Here is our long waited Vonta Leach replacement. Boren is the prototypical FB who would run through a brick wall to open a hole. This year Boren has taken a more active role in the offense, running for 33 yards on 11 carries and two touchdowns, while catching 5 balls for 42 yards. While these are hardly mindblowing numbers, they go to show that, unlike Leach, Boren can make plays with the ball, even if it is not why he is being drafted here. We foresee many more years of the leagues best rushing offense with Boren helping to clear the way.

Seventh Round: Kapron Lewis-Moore, DE/Sr. 6040 306 lbs. Notre Dame

Kap is defensive co-captain with Manti Te'o. He is a converted OLB with pass rushing moves yet stout enough to drop down as a 5-tech 3-4 end. High motor, effort guy who is always around the football but not quick enough to get there first before Te'o or Nix, still these are the type of effort depth players NFL teams feed off to sustain teams health & longevity. Losing Tim Jamision & David Hunter has left the depth chart with only Jared Crick a rookie & 4th rd. draft pick from Nebraska. We feel Lewis-Moore could fill this vacuum pending on how well those players rehab to give Texans much needed adequate depth to maintain defense @ a high level for entire 16 game season & playoffs.

WOW. Yall did an excellent job for an early mock. Some nitpicking.

1. Woods is a great pick, but I doubt he will be there. This is becoming an passing league and as such more and more WRs are going high in the draft. 4 went in the first 30 picks last year. A good pick, but I fear he will be a mid round selection or better.

2. I entertained the notion of putting Louis Nix III as first round Texans pick for many of the reasons you suggested. I think Nix has the stuff, but I don't think he lasts this long. He is a big, athletic, disruptive force in the middle of the field. He can play as a 3-4 NT like Seymour or Jenkins, a 3-4 DE like Ngata, or a 4-3 DT like Atkins. As such I think he goes int he first, possibly even a high as around 12. I'd take him with the Texans first rounder. If he somehow slips to the Texans in the second, I would be besides myself.

3. VERY good TE prospect. Question is would he see the field with OD, Graham, and Casey(since you have a FB later on) ahead of him? May mean one of them is let out? That aside GREAT pick.

4. I am not knocking the pick. I think he is a great developmental Swing tackle. My only concern is that I see RT as a bigger more immediate need to upgrade and would do so with a starter. Obviously yall feel differently. That's fine. We will get a better sense of Newton over the second half of the season.

5. I am certainly concerned about his speed and size. a little short for a safety but not really fast enough to be a corner. Perhaps he becomes a special teams player?

6. Boren is a fine prospect. I prefer Millard but Boren is also good.

7. High effort DE in the 7th. Sure. Sign me up. At this point in the draft give me high effort high motor guys.

badboy
11-04-2012, 05:58 PM
Doppleganger, appreciate the comments. We are willing to use our #1 on Nix and do expect him to climb boards but when Mock posted few really knew him. Also, Woods had dropped some allowing him to float within our range. As BL has said, we all have seen some odd things happen draft day. Remember getting Mercilus @ #26? Also Reed in second. Ya just never know.