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vtech9
06-03-2005, 09:11 PM
Browns | Shelton Agrees to One-year Deal - from www.KFFL.com
Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:11:27 -0700

ESPN.com's Len Pasquarelli reports the Cleveland Browns have reached an agreement with free agent OT L.J. Shelton (Cardinals) on a one-year deal. Financial terms have not been disclosed.

gcolby
06-03-2005, 09:22 PM
double-dy ding-dang!

:brickwall

Well, the guy clearly values MONEY over CLASS. For a little bit less, he could have signed on with us, a playoff-bound team on the rise. Instead, he get The Soljah as a team-mate.

Ah well.

MojoMan
06-03-2005, 09:35 PM
He probably knew that he would not be able to beat Seth Wand out of the starting job. If that's his attitude, he is better off in Cleveland.

Good luck to you Mr. Shelton.

Hoss
06-03-2005, 09:43 PM
here comes peter....

Hervoyel
06-03-2005, 09:46 PM
I knew Shelton wasn't going to be coming here and I still believe that if he had there's no way in the world he beats Seth Wand out of the LT spot. Guys, when the Cardinals tell a guy to take a hike after wasting a 1 on his sorry butt then you know there's something wrong with that player. If the Texans had wanted him they could have paid the money. They didn't and that speaks volumes about what they think of their LT depth.

The only reason Pitts is taking any reps there is to light a fire under Seth and to keep the position in Chester's mind because he's the best backup at that spot we've got. Wand goes down and Chester slides out. Then Milford Brown takes the LG spot. That's it, end of story IMO.

ArlingtonTexan
06-03-2005, 09:50 PM
I thought Shelton would sign with the Texans. This is the problem even when you find a guy who seems to fit in FA. Too many factors have to line up in order to make it work to everyone. Money, opportunity, evironment..etc.

F-minus67
06-03-2005, 10:01 PM
Wow, the search for a LT continues...

D-ReK
06-03-2005, 10:14 PM
Honestly, I don't see what everyone's fascination with this guy was/is...He got cut by one of the worst teams in the NFL (granted they are improving) for not performing, so why would he be better here? Pitts made huge strides at LT from 2002 to 2003 and I expect the same from Wand this year...

Lucky
06-03-2005, 10:35 PM
The only reason Pitts is taking any reps there is to light a fire under Seth and to keep the position in Chester's mind because he's the best backup at that spot we've got. Wand goes down and Chester slides out.
I'm going to agree with your 2nd assumption & disagree with the 1st. I don't think the Texans are going to waste time in these coaching sessions to "light a fire". If a player isn't motivated on his own to perform his best, he needs to learn Jerry Glanville's definiton for N.F.L. Chester is now the only option at LT other than Wand. And let's include in our prayers tonight that we never have to see Milford Brown in the lineup.

Part of me is very happy that the Texans have stopped throwing mad $$$ at average talent. The other part is very confused as to why McKinney & Wiegert haven't had to renegotiate their monster salaries to reflect their league value. Whether he started or not, I would have liked to see a legit NFL lineman like Shelton on the team for depth purposes, at least. If the cap charges for McKinney & Wiegert weren't so ridiculous, maybe Casserly could have thrown Shelton a couple of extra bones.

Texansbacker
06-03-2005, 10:35 PM
That bites he signed with Cleveland. I thought we could get him on the cheap and improve our depth and competition at left tackle. I hope that Wand is the real deal because I am not pinning a lot of hope with Riley.

The Texans were obviously only interested in getting Shelton for cheap as they could have certainly put together a better package than Cleveland but chose a more prudent approach instead.

Go Big Wand.

Ibar_Harry
06-04-2005, 12:03 AM
I think there was something they knew about LJ and didn't want him unless it was on the Texan's terms. I think like others that a better center might be more of an immediate answer than the replacement of Wand. It could be the center position is the hole in the dike. Again, I hope that TC produces some young offensive O-line surprises. Like others, I believe that Riley will not be much of an answer, but then again you never know. Perhaps the OT from Cleveland who is so upset with Cleveland will come to Texas. He really is much better than LJ anyway. Actually that would almost be like a trade.

dalemurphy
06-04-2005, 12:19 AM
I think there was something they knew about LJ and didn't want him unless it was on the Texan's terms. I think like others that a better center might be more of an immediate answer than the replacement of Wand. It could be the center position is the hole in the dike. Again, I hope that TC produces some young offensive O-line surprises. Like others, I believe that Riley will not be much of an answer, but then again you never know. Perhaps the OT from Cleveland who is so upset with Cleveland will come to Texas. He really is much better than LJ anyway. Actually that would almost be like a trade.


You don't know Ross Verba's name but you know that he's much better than Shelton?

Ibar_Harry
06-04-2005, 04:08 AM
You don't know Ross Verba's name but you know that he's much better than Shelton?

Yes, that's what I said and believe. Sometimes a name eludes one, but I know who I'm talking about and so obviously do you. If you don't think so, then look up the comments on him and say what you think. I just happen to think the way Cleveland is playing the game that there is a real possibility we might get a shot at him. His problems are over his perception that the Browns promised him something if he restructured his contract last year to help the Browns. Unfortunately the Browns are saying the people who made the promises are long gone and they don't have to honor any of those verbal agreements. He tried to help his ball club and got the shaft. Therefore, he's a tad bit upset. As so many of you have stated, it's a business.

May be that's why Casserly didn't offer LJ enough. May be knew a large problem was developing between the Browns and Verba. Stranger things have happened. Will this move by the Browns anger Verba to the point he just says enough is enough. We will have to wait and see.

Browns and Verba (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2075601)

I found the above link and information after I wrote my statement, but it reinforces what I'm saying......

TexansNeedRBin05
06-04-2005, 05:49 AM
Right now we need atleast one tackle and one center. I cant believe we go into the season without adressing these.

Riley = I am not a believer. People have been saying he is extremely lazy.

I hate to tell but the hitting starts in 2 months. If we dont have the player we need tough. We might get more player that a team cuts but your 2005 Texans are pretty much visible now.

BTW Harry http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3920 EPSN has Vebra listed as a Guard. Probably still help but.

MojoMan
06-04-2005, 07:38 AM
I hate to tell but the hitting starts in 2 months. If we dont have the player we need tough. We might get more player that a team cuts but your 2005 Texans are pretty much visible now.

If we only get one more player, which is probably a good estimate, I hope that it will be a tight end, and not an offensive guard or tackle.

ArlingtonTexan
06-04-2005, 08:21 AM
Yes, that's what I said and believe. Sometimes a name eludes one, but I know who I'm talking about and so obviously do you. If you don't think so, then look up the comments on him and say what you think. I just happen to think the way Cleveland is playing the game that there is a real possibility we might get a shot at him. His problems are over his perception that the Browns promised him something if he restructured his contract last year to help the Browns. Unfortunately the Browns are saying the people who made the promises are long gone and they don't have to honor any of those verbal agreements. He tried to help his ball club and got the shaft. Therefore, he's a tad bit upset. As so many of you have stated, it's a business.

May be that's why Casserly didn't offer LJ enough. May be knew a large problem was developing between the Browns and Verba. Stranger things have happened. Will this move by the Browns anger Verba to the point he just says enough is enough. We will have to wait and see.

Browns and Verba (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2075601)

I found the above link and information after I wrote my statement, but it reinforces what I'm saying......

Verba would fit in with McKinney and Weigert very well. Overpaid player probably not playing his best position and definately not earning the money being paid to him. The Browns have one of the few OL in the league that has been as poor as the Texans over the last few years.

wags
06-04-2005, 09:24 AM
Overpaid player probably not playing his best position and definately not earning the money being paid to him.

I thought Verba restructured his deal to help out the Browns last year. I think his base salary is pretty low this year and that's why he is holding out, because the ex-regime promised him more money this year.

nunusguy
06-04-2005, 09:25 AM
Taken in total context with the efforts to acquire OP and the Texans strategy in the college draft, this is encouraging to me. Cass would like to upgrade the all important LT position, but he's not by any means desperate to do so.
They are not going to overpay for a Hall-of-famer (by shelling out 2 first round picks), but they would have handed over a single first rounder, so they
would step up and pay a reasonable price.
Shelton on his best day was probably going to be only be a marginal upgrade,
trouble is his best days are over and he probably would not have beat out a younger player who is still ascending on the upside of his career.
To me the most significant thing about the draft and the offensive tackle position was not that the Texans didn't feel any sense of urgency to take
Barron, a player who was talented but also by reputation unbelievably unmotivated and lazy, but its that they also passed on Jamail Brown. The Saints sure liked him and even though he was thought to be more of a RT,
many felt that he also had the potential to play LT.

wags
06-04-2005, 09:38 AM
Verba restructured his contract in 2004 to help the Browns out of a salary cap squeeze, and claims then-head coach Butch Davis promised to enhance his deal if he played well. Verba had a strong season and some league personnel men felt that he ranked in the top dozen performers among starting left tackles in 2004.

He did restructure, but I think he is actually due 7.2 million the next two years. So the overpaid argument might be valid.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2075601

ArlingtonTexan
06-04-2005, 09:41 AM
He did restructure, but I think he is actually due 7.2 million the next two years. So the overpaid argument might be valid.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2075601

Thanks was just about to go find the info.

The other problem is that he maybe a better guard than LT and that he thinks that he is underpaid.

Vinny
06-04-2005, 11:43 AM
I bet when all the dust settles Verba ends up at one of the Guard spots.

Ibar_Harry
06-04-2005, 12:15 PM
I bet when all the dust settles Verba ends up at one of the Guard spots.

Vinny with the Texans or Cleveland?

Ibar_Harry
06-04-2005, 12:23 PM
I guess there is some confusion, because of this quote from the ESPN article and I had seen it earlier in another article by Pas

"Verba restructured his contract in 2004 to help the Browns out of a salary cap squeeze, and claims then-head coach Butch Davis promised to enhance his deal if he played well. Verba had a strong season and some league personnel men felt that he ranked in the top dozen performers among starting left tackles in 2004."

Is he a Guard or a Tackle? I assumed that Pas wouldn't call a Tackle a Guard, but I guess I'm wrong.

jacquescas
06-04-2005, 12:26 PM
Browns | Verba Wants Out - from www.KFFL.com
Sat, 4 Jun 2005 05:27:40 -0700

Mary Kay Cabot, of the Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns OT Ross Verba responded to the team's signing of OT L.J. Shelton by asking the Browns to cut him. "That's great," said Verba when informed Friday, June 3 about Shelton. "Now they have a left tackle and hopefully they'll cut me. Please cut me now!" Verba has been threatening to sit out the season without a new contract. Browns general manager Phil Savage has already said that he has no plans to redo Verba's deal. "They obviously don't want to pay me what I'm worth, so why don't they just freaking cut me?" Verba said by phone. "They don't even return my agents' phone calls. To be disrespected like that is total B.S." Verba said he'll be happy to stay in Cleveland if the Browns give him the money he deserves. "If not, I'm man enough to walk away with my head held high."

So i guess the thread now is do we wanna bring Verba here to play ahead of Wand for a year.

jacquescas
06-04-2005, 12:26 PM
I think if i'm not mistake Verba played guard in Green Bay some and evenntually switched to tackle but i could be wrong.

TexanFanInCC
06-04-2005, 01:02 PM
here comes peter....

doubt it. espn.com says he will likely sign with seattle. why not? u get to be with ur brother michael and a former teammate jamie sharper.

JDizzle
06-04-2005, 01:18 PM
lets get a center instead...

Probably a better idea than panicking for a left tackle. LT this, LT that .... sheesh. I'm not able to review game tapes but Wand probably got credited with several sacks that resulted in the pocket collapsing from the middle. If anyone here has the luxury of doing so I'd be curious to see if I'm close on that one. If the middle linemen let the pocket collapse like that then Carr can't see the field and is going to get pushed back into one of the tackles.

Wand isn't an atrocity at LT, and wasn't picked to make an immediate impact, so calm down. Look how much the line improved from years 1 to 2 with the majority of the line still in tact. I'm content with drafting a center, who will hopefully take the majority of snaps in preseason games. Also, if LJ Shelton was our savior then why did the CARDINALS cut him? Kudos to Casserly for not offering too much money for a Denny Green reject.

dalemurphy
06-04-2005, 01:21 PM
Probably a better idea than panicking for a left tackle. LT this, LT that .... sheesh. I'm not able to review game tapes but Wand probably got credited with several sacks that resulted in the pocket collapsing from the middle. If anyone here has the luxury of doing so I'd be curious to see if I'm close on that one. If the middle linemen let the pocket collapse like that then Carr can't see the field and is going to get pushed back into one of the tackles.

Wand isn't an atrocity at LT, and wasn't picked to make an immediate impact, so calm down. Look how much the line improved from years 1 to 2 with the majority of the line still in tact. I'm content with drafting a center, who will hopefully take the majority of snaps in preseason games. Also, if LJ Shelton was our savior then why did the CARDINALS cut him? Kudos to Casserly for not offering too much money for a Denny Green reject.

Amen brother!

LBblitz
06-04-2005, 01:24 PM
I think if i'm not mistake Verba played guard in Green Bay some and evenntually switched to tackle but i could be wrong.
I thought the same thing...

LBblitz
06-04-2005, 01:27 PM
I am all for getting a center but who is availble? I have enough faith in wand but as long as Carr cant step up into the pocket he will be giving up alot of sacks that are not his fault.

wags
06-04-2005, 05:51 PM
Look how much the line improved from years 1 to 2 with the majority of the line still in tact.

Didn't we have a new RG, RT, and LG?

TexansTrueFan
06-04-2005, 07:23 PM
geez we seem like we want every guy that comes on the market, is anyone not happy with the guys we have ???

Hervoyel
06-04-2005, 08:33 PM
geez we seem like we want every guy that comes on the market, is anyone not happy with the guys we have ???

I'm completely fine with the guys we have. We could throw Riley back as far as I'm concerned. Adding Pace would have been a no brainer obviously but everyone they've looked at or talked about since then has been one of two things. Either competition or depth

Davis37
06-04-2005, 11:09 PM
I'm completely fine with the guys we have. We could throw Riley back as far as I'm concerned. Adding Pace would have been a no brainer obviously but everyone they've looked at or talked about since then has been one of two things. Either competition or depth

I agree Hervoyel. Im fine with who we have, at least for this season. I know im :deadhorse here, but if Wand doesnt show enough progression we can always get a LT in high 1st round next draft. I know thats what Ive been saying alot here lately, but why waste alot of cap room for some1 that wouldnt be a great improvement over what we have already. I wouldnt mind bringing in a guy or 2 for cheap, just for depth and competition.

281
06-05-2005, 01:25 PM
:brickwall

lets get a center instead...

Preach... Post of the year.

Jagsbch
06-05-2005, 01:31 PM
It is good to know that Trent Dilfer will have some time to throw this year. :brickwall

It is disheartening to see the lack in initiative to protect the QB displayed by this franchise. Games are won and lost in the trenches, if there is a team that needs to address its depth CRISIS with its o-line I can't think of a better one than the Texans. It doesn't make sense How many times has David been sacked the past 2 seasons? Who has been sacked more in that span of time? David's future is cut short with every snap of the ball in Texas. :ouch: :goodnight

CoachJim
06-05-2005, 01:38 PM
Although I would have loved to land OPace or even LJShelton, I believe with another off-season together & some added depth and adjustments to get the ball outta DCs hands quicker, we'll be ok. My optimistic side rears it's ugly head every now & then.

ATX
06-05-2005, 02:26 PM
i don't care how good of a LT you have, if you're not running the ball effectively, it's gonna be harder to throw the ball. i think a good runnin game this season will help cover up any weakness we have at LT.

dalemurphy
06-05-2005, 06:39 PM
It doesn't make sense How many times has David been sacked the past 2 seasons? Who has been sacked more in that span of time? David's future is cut short with every snap of the ball in Texas. :ouch: :goodnight


David Carr has been sacked 64 times in the past 2 seasons, meanwhile:

Culpepper- 83
McNabb- 75
Bulger- 78
Hasselbeck- 72
ABrooks- 75
TBrady- 58.... all during the past 2 seasons.

Carr played in 28 during this span. I believe Culpepper, McNabb, Brooks, Brady played in 2-4 more... Hasselbeck and Bulger both missed a similar amount of time.

Imagine if this team held the lead more often in games and the defense was better. Just those facts alone would impact the sack total. Altering the protection scheme will impact the numbers as well. So, if the line doesn't improve but other areas of the team continue to, you can expect a sack total in range or better with some of the elite teams in the NFL.

THere is a common theme with these Qbs who have been sacked often the past 2 seasons:

1. good health
2. very mobile qbs,
3. or qbs who throw often from deep drops

David Carr fits all three of those descriptions and as a result has been sacked a fair amount of time the past 2 years.

Mr Shush
06-05-2005, 09:13 PM
You can have a 1,000 yard rusher without a great running game. Think how many of those yards were on draw plays, for one thing. Not that our running was bad, but it could be better. Davis is a solid player, clearly NFL starting material, excellent value for a fourth-round pick, but I don't see him making too many pro-bowls.

Texans Pride
06-05-2005, 10:32 PM
David Carr has been sacked 64 times in the past 2 seasons, meanwhile:

Culpepper- 83
McNabb- 75
Bulger- 78
Hasselbeck- 72
ABrooks- 75
TBrady- 58.... all during the past 2 seasons.

Carr played in 28 during this span. I believe Culpepper, McNabb, Brooks, Brady played in 2-4 more... Hasselbeck and Bulger both missed a similar amount of time.

Imagine if this team held the lead more often in games and the defense was better. Just those facts alone would impact the sack total. Altering the protection scheme will impact the numbers as well. So, if the line doesn't improve but other areas of the team continue to, you can expect a sack total in range or better with some of the elite teams in the NFL.

THere is a common theme with these Qbs who have been sacked often the past 2 seasons:

1. good health
2. very mobile qbs,
3. or qbs who throw often from deep drops

David Carr fits all three of those descriptions and as a result has been sacked a fair amount of time the past 2 years.


Dale, nice post, I had no idea about those figures. Thanks for the good post.

ATX
06-05-2005, 11:27 PM
1000+ yards is great, we just need to be able to run on 3rd downs when its 2-3 yards. what i'm getting at is when it was 3rd down and 3 last year, how many times did we run vs. pass the ball? when the opposing defense knows you're gonna throw it, they can go all out and rush you hard. thats what our problem has been since day 1. we can rush, hell even have back to back 1000+yard rushing seasons by DD, but how well can we run, when we really need to run? like in the 4th quarter and 3rd and short, we're horrible in those situations. i have faith however, that all of that has been growing pains thus far. this is the year for drastic improvement in our play. it may not show through wins and losses as much, but we should be alot more consistent.

TexanFanInCC
06-05-2005, 11:37 PM
i think alot of us are forgetting about milford brown as a possibility.

ATX
06-05-2005, 11:45 PM
i think alot of us are forgetting about milford brown as a possibility.


that's what they drafted him for.

G-Man
06-06-2005, 12:27 AM
I was just wondering since we got rid almost all of are veterans we should get some compensatory picks. Are those picks going to come in 2006 or in 2007?

Davis37
06-06-2005, 04:32 AM
I was just wondering since we got rid almost all of are veterans we should get some compensatory picks. Are those picks going to come in 2006 or in 2007?

I believe u only get compensatory picks for losing veterans through free agency. We wont get any cause we cut Sharper and Glenn.

Mr Shush
06-06-2005, 10:17 AM
Yeah, that's my understanding as well. It'll only be when people start walking at the actual ends of their contracts that we get compensatory picks.

infantrycak
06-06-2005, 10:55 AM
1000+ yards is great, we just need to be able to run on 3rd downs when its 2-3 yards. what i'm getting at is when it was 3rd down and 3 last year, how many times did we run vs. pass the ball? when the opposing defense knows you're gonna throw it, they can go all out and rush you hard. thats what our problem has been since day 1. we can rush, hell even have back to back 1000+yard rushing seasons by DD, but how well can we run, when we really need to run? like in the 4th quarter and 3rd and short, we're horrible in those situations. i have faith however, that all of that has been growing pains thus far. this is the year for drastic improvement in our play. it may not show through wins and losses as much, but we should be alot more consistent.

Perception differs from reality once again. The Texans have run more on 3rd and 3 or less than passed. Last year DD ran on 3rd and 3 or less 15 times averaging 5.7 ypc. Add in Wells' 5 carries on 3rd and 3 or less (averaging 1.8 ypc--so much for the big back theory) for 20 runs on 3rd and 3 or less. Carr had 11 passing attempts on 3rd and 3 or less--which by the way was one of his most ineffective situations completing only 45.3% of his passes and getting sacked 3 times. Basically the Texans ran twice as often as they passed on 3rd and short last year so no one was assuming they were going to throw.

lucky13
06-07-2005, 07:38 PM
Honestly, I don't see what everyone's fascination with this guy was/is...He got cut by one of the worst teams in the NFL (granted they are improving) for not performing, so why would he be better here? ...

the cardinals are better than the texans.

texan279
06-07-2005, 07:47 PM
the cardinals are better than the texans.

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