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View Full Version : Dreessen, Ryans, Winston, Brisiel, Leach.


Tailgate
10-18-2012, 04:19 PM
Will these guys ultimately be the undoing of our Team?

I knew coming into this season that this would be the year that defines our current regime. I know there is ALOT of ball left to be played, and its certainly possible that we improve on last year. But, I have this bad feeling that these guys are going to ultimately be the death of us.


Dreeseen - We sorely miss his blocking abilities in the 2 TE formation.

Ryans - He was a true leader and the ONLY reason we could afford losing him was because of Cush. We now have a gaping hole in the middle of the field as a result of the injury.

Winston and Brisiel - Well, looks as though these guys are not as easily replacable as we had hoped to this point. It has been a never ending rotation at both positions and I see no light at the end of the tunnel yet as far as long term solutions.

Leach - I know he was gone 2 years ago, and having Casey is fantastic and adds another dimension, but I dont think this balances out positively for us.


The Texans are currently 23rd in the league with a 3.8 ypc average. 23rd in the league. Color me very concerned. Will our playaction continue to be a strength?

Look... the Texans may very well go out and beat Baltimore and everything might be hunky dory. But I feel like we have lost some serious toughness in the O-line and the teeth of our D, the middle (which was already a weakness) is going to be exploited.

And I know we could not afford all of these guys, and its all apart of the business. But man, all the talk was a Super Bowl run after last year, when in reality... its looking almost like a stop gap solution, another playoff hello, until we can fix these areas of the team long term and become true contenders for the Super Bowl.

I would not want to be Kubiak or Phillips right now. But I hope they find the way. A 5-0 head start certaily helps the cause. Lets hope we get that hot again at the end of the season.

Beat Balty! Go Texans!!!

Showtime100
10-18-2012, 04:22 PM
Will these guys ultimately be the undoing of our Team?

I knew coming into this season that this would be the year that defines our current regime. I know there is ALOT of ball left to be played, and its certainly possible that we improve on last year. But, I have this bad feeling that these guys are going to ultimately be the death of us.


Dreeseen - We sorely miss his blocking abilities in the 2 TE formation.

Ryans - He was a true leader and the ONLY reason we could afford losing him was because of Cush. We now have a gaping hole in the middle of the field as a result of the injury.

Winston and Brisiel - Well, looks as though these guys are not as easily replacable as we had hoped to this point. It has been a never ending rotation at both positions and I see no light at the end of the tunnel yet as far as long term solutions.

Leach - I know he was gone 2 years ago, and having Casey is fantastic and adds another dimension, but I dont think this balances out positively for us.


The Texans are currently 23rd in the league with a 3.8 ypc average. 23rd in the league. Color me very concerned. Will our playaction continue to be a strength?

Look... the Texans may very well go out and beat Baltimore and everything might be hunky dory. But I feel like we have lost some serious toughness in the O-line and the teeth of our D, the middle (which was already a weakness) is going to be exploited.

And I know we could not afford all of these guys, and its all apart of the business. But man, all the talk was a Super Bowl run after last year, when in reality... its looking almost like a stop gap solution, another playoff hello, until we can fix these areas of the team long term and become true contenders for the Super Bowl.

I would not want to be Kubiak or Phillips right now. But I hope they find the way. A 5-0 head start certaily helps the cause. Lets hope we get that hot again at the end of the season.

Beat Balty! Go Texans!!!

It would be nice if we could keep them all, but HOLY SH=
T it doesn't work that way.

srrono
10-18-2012, 04:26 PM
Will these guys ultimately be the undoing of our Team?

I knew coming into this season that this would be the year that defines our current regime. I know there is ALOT of ball left to be played, and its certainly possible that we improve on last year. But, I have this bad feeling that these guys are going to ultimately be the death of us.


Dreeseen - We sorely miss his blocking abilities in the 2 TE formation.

Ryans - He was a true leader and the ONLY reason we could afford losing him was because of Cush. We now have a gaping hole in the middle of the field as a result of the injury.

Winston and Brisiel - Well, looks as though these guys are not as easily replacable as we had hoped to this point. It has been a never ending rotation at both positions and I see no light at the end of the tunnel yet as far as long term solutions.

Leach - I know he was gone 2 years ago, and having Casey is fantastic and adds another dimension, but I dont think this balances out positively for us.


The Texans are currently 23rd in the league with a 3.8 ypc average. 23rd in the league. Color me very concerned. Will our playaction continue to be a strength?

Look... the Texans may very well go out and beat Baltimore and everything might be hunky dory. But I feel like we have lost some serious toughness in the O-line and the teeth of our D, the middle (which was already a weakness) is going to be exploited.

And I know we could not afford all of these guys, and its all apart of the business. But man, all the talk was a Super Bowl run after last year, when in reality... its looking almost like a stop gap solution, another playoff hello, until we can fix these areas of the team long term and become true contenders for the Super Bowl.

I would not want to be Kubiak or Phillips right now. But I hope they find the way. A 5-0 head start certaily helps the cause. Lets hope we get that hot again at the end of the season.

Beat Balty! Go Texans!!!

Not Texans Thread belongs in NFL section

badboy
10-18-2012, 04:26 PM
Only complaint I now have is I wished we could have gotten a pick for Winston.

Tailgate
10-18-2012, 04:27 PM
It would be nice if we could keep them all, but HOLY SH=
T it doesn't work that way.

I already get all of that. But there is so much grey area in terms of contracts, bad contracts, bad decisions, restructuring, expecting to even be able to make a certain move due to what they feel is a sufficient enough replacement etc. And alot of that is or is not on them... so its not all that black and white. The point was could we counter the losses with the proper replacements, adding strenghts in other areas, and be a BETTER team this year than last. And its starting to feel like NO.

Tailgate
10-18-2012, 04:29 PM
Not Texans thread and the answer is no ... move on already.

It has everything to do with the Texans currently.

Showtime100
10-18-2012, 04:31 PM
I already get all of that. But there is so much grey area in terms of contracts, bad contracts, bad decisions, restructuring, expecting to even be able to make a certain move due to what they feel is a sufficient enough replacement etc. And alot of that is or is not on them... so its not all that black and white. The point was could we counter the losses with the proper replacements, adding strenghts in other areas, and be a BETTER team this year than last. And its starting to feel like NO.

Cool.

Tailgate
10-18-2012, 04:41 PM
Cool.

It is what it is.

76Texan
10-18-2012, 04:46 PM
Two things need to be considered:

1. Injury.

If Brisiel played with an ankle injury like he did last year, he wouldn't be any better than Caldwell or Jones (maybe even worse) at the moment.
If Caldwell has been healthy, the O-line would have looked better than it does at the moment.

So in term of RG play, we're not comparing them on the same footing.
Brisiel is playing without injury while Caldwell is playing with several injuries.

2. Continuity on the line.

We expected (or at least the OP should have expected) that in the short term, the lack of continuity on the line doesn't help.
As the year moves along, the line should work better together.

...

76Texan
10-18-2012, 04:48 PM
Next is Newton vs. Winston

Again, we should expect a first-time starter like Newton to hit a few bumps early on.

To compare him with Winston now is not at all fair.

The pick-up of Harris offset the loss of Butler (due to the injury).

JimBaker488
10-18-2012, 04:49 PM
We've been down this road before. Many times.

76Texan
10-18-2012, 04:50 PM
The loss of Dreesen definitely affects the blocking, but Graham's catching ability makes up for it somewhat. Again, Graham is still a young player; he should continue to improve. His blocking is at least adequate, and he can still improve in that area as well.

Thorn
10-18-2012, 04:53 PM
I remember conversations about Graham being the second coming of Owen Daniels. To bad that hasn't happened yet.

76Texan
10-18-2012, 04:53 PM
Leach was too expensive to keep.
Casey's versatility makes up for the blocking.

Only because Cushing went down that we seem to miss Demeco.
Remember how he (Ryans) didn't play very well last year due to injury?

It's the injury to Cushing that didn't help the team.
If Cushing is still healthy, would the OP mention Demeco in his post?

76Texan
10-18-2012, 04:57 PM
I remember conversations about Graham being the second coming of Owen Daniels. To bad that hasn't happened yet.

I wasn't in that conversation. I'd rather not place high expectation on a player.

Look, I had "high" expectation on Watt; but he exceeds all that expectation, so I guess my expectation on him wasn't all that high, LOL!

76Texan
10-18-2012, 05:01 PM
On top of it all, Wade Smith has not been doing well due to health issue.
That also affects the line play.

Dutchrudder
10-18-2012, 05:03 PM
You forgot Jason Babin, Tramon Williams and Bernard Pollard.

PapaL
10-18-2012, 05:05 PM
76 covered it all very nicely.

/Thread

Norg
10-18-2012, 05:16 PM
Welcome to the AGe of free agency and Cap limit LOL


Dreessen-Yeah he was a put on your miners helmet and lets do work kinda of guy but so is Garrett he was younger he was cheaper and did i mention hes younger faster and prob stronger then dreesseen .........but like alwasy lacks EXP

Winston....i think if said my opn on him he sucks dude in pass protecting is like on roller skates ..i think Newton is a Upgrade to him... give newton time

Brisiel- i liked him but he was hurt and old so yeah it was time

Leech- last year foster proved he didnt need leech to be a star nuff said

i really dont mind the Front office decesion to let these guys go look u gotta keep your core guyz they have a plan and pay scale there going to pay there players in the now and Future

they showed there piroitys are Paying Scahub paying your LT BROWN and in the future prob paying Cushing ...well maybe not now they already payed Andre

i guess next will to Obvs lock up JJWATT if we had kept all thoes guys down the line we would be struggling to Keep JJWATT is that what u WANT !!!!????

Texn4life
10-18-2012, 05:20 PM
Let's just hope everyone becomes pro-bowl type players and then pretend we can magically keep them all when they wanna get paid as their contracts are coming up or get too rich for us to fit under the cap. No reason we can't do all this while paying out core players top dollar too right? Ok, carry on.

Norg
10-18-2012, 05:26 PM
another thing is winning organzations sometimes get players who want to come here 4 less ........... tho in this day of age for the players its all about getting payed and whats best for the family and IMO that comes first i dont care what logo im wearing on my helmet ..and im fine with that

but hopefully from here on out we can be contenders from here on out like the Pats and steelers and balty ..who have been to the PLayoffs going on like 6 years straight

Double Barrel
10-18-2012, 05:51 PM
Well, on one hand it sucks that you can't keep all your players. Get rid of the salary cap! Of course, I can say that because the Texans are one of the more profitable teams in the league and I don't think McNair would have a problem spending some money.

But, on the other hand, this is kinda' positive as Texans fans since it's the first time that we see what successful teams experience all the time. You cannot keep players stocked in this day and age, so you develop them and they move on as casualties of the salary cap. The consistently good teams reload and keep doing what they do. This is what the Texans need to be, keep the wins coming and get used to losing good players every year because you cannot keep all of them.

Norg
10-18-2012, 06:04 PM
thats why if your team model is to build through the draft its sooooo IMPORTANT to hit on your draft picks

rush2112mn
10-18-2012, 06:35 PM
Always easier to look back vs ahead.....

Tailgate
10-18-2012, 06:42 PM
Welcome to the AGe of free agency and Cap limit LOL


Dreessen-Yeah he was a put on your miners helmet and lets do work kinda of guy but so is Garrett he was younger he was cheaper and did i mention hes younger faster and prob stronger then dreesseen .........but like alwasy lacks EXP

Winston....i think if said my opn on him he sucks dude in pass protecting is like on roller skates ..i think Newton is a Upgrade to him... give newton time

Brisiel- i liked him but he was hurt and old so yeah it was time

Leech- last year foster proved he didnt need leech to be a star nuff said

i really dont mind the Front office decesion to let these guys go look u gotta keep your core guyz they have a plan and pay scale there going to pay there players in the now and Future

they showed there piroitys are Paying Scahub paying your LT BROWN and in the future prob paying Cushing ...well maybe not now they already payed Andre

i guess next will to Obvs lock up JJWATT if we had kept all thoes guys down the line we would be struggling to Keep JJWATT is that what u WANT !!!!????

Who said anything about keeping all of them?

Playoffs
10-18-2012, 06:42 PM
The loss of Dreesen definitely affects the blocking,...

I still think Dreessen was our biggest loss.

utahmark
10-18-2012, 06:46 PM
1 - I hate to see this board when we start losing more than once every six games.

2 - I think we should of kept Winston and Brisiel and traded foster for draft picks. I know it's not a popular opinion but imo offensive lineman are more important to a consistant run game than running backs. They also protect the quarterback.

3 - This thread is about how the loss of certain players effects this current team. Why would you want him to put it in the NFL thread?

Kthx
10-18-2012, 06:47 PM
I think we miss Leach honestly, and Ryans obviously now that Cush is gone if not for how he was playing when he was with us last, than as a leader on the team, and on the field, which is a big part of what were missing with Cush gone.

I still don't understand why we dropped Vickers.. it isn't like the guy was getting paid tons of money and it seemed like at the end of the last season he was really starting to click with our offensive line and RB's. He wasn't a Leach level FB but he did the job very well.

Tailgate
10-18-2012, 06:48 PM
Well, on one hand it sucks that you can't keep all your players. Get rid of the salary cap! Of course, I can say that because the Texans are one of the more profitable teams in the league and I don't think McNair would have a problem spending some money.

But, on the other hand, this is kinda' positive as Texans fans since it's the first time that we see what successful teams experience all the time. You cannot keep players stocked in this day and age, so you develop them and they move on as casualties of the salary cap. The consistently good teams reload and keep doing what they do. This is what the Texans need to be, keep the wins coming and get used to losing good players every year because you cannot keep all of them.

And that was my whole point. Will this regime maximize vs losses? Can this team go through these situations without a true game changer at QB and expect to win a Super Bowl? Have we regressed overall?

Goldensilence
10-18-2012, 07:01 PM
Winston was a tough cut to make, but 5/5 times I'd rather sign Brown long term than Winston. Though like others I really would've liked to even gotten a late round pick back instead of straight cut.

Brisiel got overpaid, plain and simple. What some people on the board forget is how long it took for Brisiel to develop into a solid player, he wasn't and isn't likely going to get a pro bowl nod, but he was solid. I think Jones probably compares well in physical terms, but Brooks has an insane ceiling.

I hated losing Ryans, but I'm not sure if he was going to get the amount of snaps to match his pay. I do think he would probably have a better plug in than Dobbins after Cushing's injury.

I really do like Casey's versatility, but I do think its unfair to compare him to Leach. Leach is a prototypical skull crushing FB, while Casey is more of an H back who brings a lot more in the passing game. I'd really love to see him get more snaps at TE.

I would have liked to keep Dressen because he was a bigger redzone target than OD last year. I hope in the end the Texans can get the same with he combined efforts of Graham and Casey.

Texan_Bill
10-18-2012, 07:19 PM
Will these guys ultimately be the undoing of our Team?

I knew coming into this season that this would be the year that defines our current regime. I know there is ALOT of ball left to be played, and its certainly possible that we improve on last year. But, I have this bad feeling that these guys are going to ultimately be the death of us.


Dreeseen - We sorely miss his blocking abilities in the 2 TE formation.

Ryans - He was a true leader and the ONLY reason we could afford losing him was because of Cush. We now have a gaping hole in the middle of the field as a result of the injury.

Winston and Brisiel - Well, looks as though these guys are not as easily replacable as we had hoped to this point. It has been a never ending rotation at both positions and I see no light at the end of the tunnel yet as far as long term solutions.

Leach - I know he was gone 2 years ago, and having Casey is fantastic and adds another dimension, but I dont think this balances out positively for us.


Dreessen - Meh, he opted to go back to his home. I would've liked to keep him but Daniels, Graham and part time H-back(ish) Casey aren't exactly chopped liver.

Ryans - Better suited for the 4-3. That said, the FO and probably Wade probably overestimated what Bradie James had left in the tank. That coupled with the Cushing injury didn't work out well, but hell everyone is a MMQ.

Winston - Love the guy as a person and everything he did while here (I'm looking at you Gary) as a person. With that comes football facts. His last two seasons weren't all that great, especially for the money he was due.

Briesel - He chose to opt out. His choice. Disappointing for sure, but nothing we could've done about.

Granted the last two were the right side of the line and maybe that's why we're seeing a decline in our offensive production. On the positive side both those guys leaving helped lock-up Duane Brown. Once Newton, Jones, Caldwell (or whatever combination) get some continuity, they'll be fine.

Leach - I love the guy. In fact, he was on 1560 earlier this evening. He just was too expensive for a true Fullback which is an antiquated position nowadays. I hope nothing but the best for him except this Sunday and sometime in January.

First off, losing good players that you would love to keep is a good sign. I truly mean that. It means you have a pretty good football team with good players that other teams want. That's never been the case prior to the players you outlined above. Second, we're 5-1 about to be 6-1, so quit being:


http://mikechristie.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/bobbummer.jpg

:D

rolyat93
10-18-2012, 07:21 PM
You forgot Jason Babin, Tramon Williams and Bernard Pollard.

Jabar Gaffney and Jacoby Jones.:mariopalm:

2slik4u
10-18-2012, 07:30 PM
We're 5-1. Me thinks we're going to be fine.

GP
10-18-2012, 09:38 PM
We cannot pay everyone.

It's the price/cost of becoming a GOOD TEAM...all these players want bigger money, and they know they can leverage it against us OR get what they want from lesser teams who have more space than we do.

I think we should have found the money and space to retain Brisiel, though. He was a consistent blocker on the right side that would not have cost much more money. How is he faring in Oakland, anyways? I have not followed the guy there.

TimeKiller
10-19-2012, 07:53 AM
1 loss and people pine away for the days and players that regularly missed the playoffs.


I'll take 2012 Texans over any other year, please and thank you.

76Texan
10-19-2012, 08:30 AM
I still think Dreessen was our biggest loss.The problem with keeping Dreessen is that we don't have enough snaps to go around.

Last year, we pretty much put Graham on the shelf; and that was with Casey out for part of the year.

It's time to use our draft choice.

Same thing with keeping Leach, or Vickers now that Casey is fully healthy.

Graham is making steady progress in his blocking, so far he's looking better than OD in this regard.

Against the Packers, his blocks ranged from not-so-bad to very very good.
He held his own against Clay Matthews on 3 occasions. He didn't get beat like D. Brown or O.D.

Against the Jets, he was pretty dominant; his blocks ranged from decent to excellent.

Actually, he's already way ahead of Dreessen at the same stage of their career.

We should be just fine, knock on wood.

b0ng
10-19-2012, 08:33 AM
Will these guys ultimately be the undoing of our Team?

I knew coming into this season that this would be the year that defines our current regime. I know there is ALOT of ball left to be played, and its certainly possible that we improve on last year. But, I have this bad feeling that these guys are going to ultimately be the death of us.


Dreeseen - We sorely miss his blocking abilities in the 2 TE formation.

Ryans - He was a true leader and the ONLY reason we could afford losing him was because of Cush. We now have a gaping hole in the middle of the field as a result of the injury.

Winston and Brisiel - Well, looks as though these guys are not as easily replacable as we had hoped to this point. It has been a never ending rotation at both positions and I see no light at the end of the tunnel yet as far as long term solutions.

Leach - I know he was gone 2 years ago, and having Casey is fantastic and adds another dimension, but I dont think this balances out positively for us.


The Texans are currently 23rd in the league with a 3.8 ypc average. 23rd in the league. Color me very concerned. Will our playaction continue to be a strength?

Look... the Texans may very well go out and beat Baltimore and everything might be hunky dory. But I feel like we have lost some serious toughness in the O-line and the teeth of our D, the middle (which was already a weakness) is going to be exploited.

And I know we could not afford all of these guys, and its all apart of the business. But man, all the talk was a Super Bowl run after last year, when in reality... its looking almost like a stop gap solution, another playoff hello, until we can fix these areas of the team long term and become true contenders for the Super Bowl.

I would not want to be Kubiak or Phillips right now. But I hope they find the way. A 5-0 head start certaily helps the cause. Lets hope we get that hot again at the end of the season.

Beat Balty! Go Texans!!!

You might want to look at more than just YPC before declaring the demise of the Texans season.

Dutchrudder
10-19-2012, 08:53 AM
So who do you wanna keep?

http://www.jeff-fischer.net/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=20898&g2_serialNumber=1

76Texan
10-19-2012, 08:58 AM
We cannot pay everyone.

It's the price/cost of becoming a GOOD TEAM...all these players want bigger money, and they know they can leverage it against us OR get what they want from lesser teams who have more space than we do.

I think we should have found the money and space to retain Brisiel, though. He was a consistent blocker on the right side that would not have cost much more money. How is he faring in Oakland, anyways? I have not followed the guy there.

This is what I have on Brisiel:

He has yet to give up a sack and was charged with two penalties so far.

He suffered a concussion last week agains the Falcons (so he's in the same boat as Caldwell on this end; otherwise, he's healthy.)
Before he left the game late in the second quarter, the Raiders were 12-22 in the running game.
Without him, they went 20-127.
Big difference.

The Raiders RBs averaged 3.15 ypc with Brisiel in the game (all 5 games.)
I don't know how much it has to do with Brisiel.

One thing I know is that ProFootballFocus reported him as having a bad day against the Dolphins (at least as bad as Caldwell did, it looks like.)

"Offensive Line Questions

A large part of the difficulty the Raiders have found in running the ball has to do with the play of the offensive line. The interior of the unit — left guard Cooper Carlisle, center Stefen Wisniewski, and right guard Mike Briesel – combined for an overall grade of -8.8 this week. The entire group had problems with the Dolphins’ defensive line and was constantly overpowered, struggling to get movement laterally to execute their zone blocking scheme and looking equally unimpressive in the passing game."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/18/refo-raiders-dolphins-week-2/

...

Overall, it doesn't seem like we missed Brisiel all that much.
Had Caldwell been fully healthy, I don't think we miss Biscuit at all.
I like his tenacity and give-it-all attitude and his solid play, but going forward I think we'll be fine at RG with either a healthy Caldwell or a more seasoned Ben Jones (not to mention the upside of Brooks.)

76Texan
10-19-2012, 09:51 AM
You might want to look at more than just YPC before declaring the demise of the Texans season.

Right!

We might be the team that pound the rock the most on 3rd or 4th and short.
These are instances where the defense stack the line and it's difficult to gain much yardage.

I looked at the Chiefs for example.
They only ran on those occasions 8 times in 6 games with 3 different backs.
We use Tate that much by himself, and we use Foster almost 3 times as much.

We also run the ball a lot near the goal-line.
We also had several instances where we were back-up near our own and decided to run the ball some to get out of risky situation by passing the ball.

And there were times when wanted to consume the clock (when we had a big lead.)
Against the Dolphins, Foster netted 2 yards on 3 carries toward the end.
Schaub knelt down 3 times for -3.
All of that reflects in the 3.8 ypc.

Against the Jags, Schaub knelt down twice for -3

Against the Broncos, Foster ran 5 times for 12 yards to run down the clock.

Against the Titans, Schaub knelt down twice for -2

Against the Jets, Foster ran 3 times for -5

Against the Packers, Foster ran twice for 3 yards with 12 seconds left in the half.
We were on our 13-yd line and just wanted to end the half, but the Packers called a stupid time-out to make us run another play.

Take out just these 20 times that we ran out the clock, and the average is already up to 4.15

Tailgate
10-19-2012, 12:26 PM
Right!

We might be the team that pound the rock the most on 3rd or 4th and short.
These are instances where the defense stack the line and it's difficult to gain much yardage.

I looked at the Chiefs for example.
They only ran on those occasions 8 times in 6 games with 3 different backs.
We use Tate that much by himself, and we use Foster almost 3 times as much.

We also run the ball a lot near the goal-line.
We also had several instances where we were back-up near our own and decided to run the ball some to get out of risky situation by passing the ball.

And there were times when wanted to consume the clock (when we had a big lead.)
Against the Dolphins, Foster netted 2 yards on 3 carries toward the end.
Schaub knelt down 3 times for -3.
All of that reflects in the 3.8 ypc.

Against the Jags, Schaub knelt down twice for -3

Against the Broncos, Foster ran 5 times for 12 yards to run down the clock.

Against the Titans, Schaub knelt down twice for -2

Against the Jets, Foster ran 3 times for -5

Against the Packers, Foster ran twice for 3 yards with 12 seconds left in the half.
We were on our 13-yd line and just wanted to end the half, but the Packers called a stupid time-out to make us run another play.

Take out just these 20 times that we ran out the clock, and the average is already up to 4.15

Love it. Thanks for this.

Look, I am not trying to be a debby downer nor am I thinking we could have magically kept everyone and thats the answer. I was merley trying to find some optimism in the void that has been left by the loss of these players and playing the devils advocate. Will we overcome? That STILL remains to be seen obviously.

Huge game this weekend, and I will be there as I always am yelling my ass off and hopefully this defense can rebound against Rice, Flacco, and Smith.

Hervoyel
10-19-2012, 12:30 PM
Could have kept Leach if we'd let Jacoby go and frankly that would have been a better decision than giving that idiot JJ the money we gave him.

Winston & Brisiel were in my eyes a wash. Right now it looks like we made a mistake. By the end of the season we won't even miss them. It takes time to get offensive linemen working together as seemlessly as we had last season but their replacements are not bad players. They just need time. There's no replacement for reps.

Ryans I was ok with seeing traded but I don't feel like they did enough to shore up the position once he was gone. James was an ok acquisition but I don't know why they see him as a starter. Regardless even if Ryans was still here Dobbins would still be seeing the field and that would still hurt us. Sharper I am unimpressed with. I feel like if Posey pays off then it won't matter but if he washes out we'll all be wishing we'd taken an ILB there instead of a project WR.

Dreeson I don't think we miss nearly as much as some people think. He's good but it's not like we're looking at an empty TE pantry. Graham is like the new OL starters. He needs reps, it will be fine.

Norg
10-19-2012, 11:36 PM
1 - I hate to see this board when we start losing more than once every six games.

2 - I think we should of kept Winston and Brisiel and traded foster for draft picks. I know it's not a popular opinion but imo offensive lineman are more important to a consistant run game than running backs. They also protect the quarterback.

3 - This thread is about how the loss of certain players effects this current team. Why would you want him to put it in the NFL thread?

thats a big gamble IMO i might have done that if winston didnt suck so bad im not trading Foster for a Hog- Mike and a pretty average RT-winston that would make no sense to me

thunderkyss
10-20-2012, 09:16 AM
Could have kept Leach if we'd let Jacoby go and frankly that would have been a better decision than giving that idiot JJ the money we gave him.


If I remember correctly, both LeStar Jean & Trindon Holliday got hurt before we signed Jj.... he was the last receiver with experience with the team. I don't know that we had much of a choice. Remember we even signed David Anderson to play a game or two. We were desperate!!!

Lurvinator11
10-20-2012, 12:02 PM
If I remember correctly, both LeStar Jean & Trindon Holliday got hurt before we signed Jj.... he was the last receiver with experience with the team. I don't know that we had much of a choice. Remember we even signed David Anderson to play a game or two. We were desperate!!!

No we actually signed him right after the lockout ended, before we knew about Jean getting hurt. He was our first signing of that crazy free agency frenzy once the lockout was lifted and we were allowed to sign free agents again. Then came JJo and D. Manning.

So yeah. Losing him WOULD have hurt since we wouldn't have had WR depth. Also with AJ going down, that would have made the only reciever with experience in our system, Kevin Walter.

Kinda scary to think what if that would have happened.

Tailgate
01-01-2013, 12:30 PM
We will need to do a much better job of replacing these guys and FAST.

Hervoyel
01-01-2013, 12:57 PM
Not Texans Thread belongs in NFL section

Not Texans thread and the answer is no ... move on already.


Sure it is. It's about the effect of losing these players on the Houston Texans.

thunderkyss
01-01-2013, 01:06 PM
They are all role players. Replaceable. May not be easily replaceable, but replaceable all the same.

I like Newton & Jones. I think when it's all said & done, they will be better than Winston & Briesel, even though it appears we intend to fit Brooks into the line.

I don't have a problem with James Casey at FB, I just don't like the humdrum way we use him.

Graham instead of Dressen. eh... it took 3 years before we saw Dressen as an important cog in the wheel.

TheRealJoker
01-01-2013, 01:11 PM
5 physical players that brought some toughness to the team that were replaced with 5 guys who have yet to prove they can push other players around at the same level.

76Texan
01-01-2013, 01:59 PM
And somehow some folks think we had the money to bring in Peyton Manning. :toropalm:

Lucky
01-01-2013, 02:25 PM
I like Newton & Jones. I think when it's all said & done, they will be better than Winston & Briesel,

You can like them all you want, and but neither Newton or Jones have shown they can replace the guys that were lost. Inexperienced and unathletic is what I've seen from these two.

thunderkyss
01-01-2013, 03:54 PM
You can like them all you want, and but neither Newton or Jones have shown they can replace the guys that were lost. Inexperienced and unathletic is what I've seen from these two.

One of us will be proven right.

Briesel & Winston were elite, imo, in the run game. It's going to take time before Jones & Newton will get there. If they can. However, I've seen they've got the talent to get there, both guys are much more athletic than Briesel & Winston.

Their pass protection has already been better than either guy.

powda
01-01-2013, 04:32 PM
Their pass protection has already been better than either guy.

Eshh. Pretty bold statement. Dont get me wrong, winston was no superstar in pass pro but he was a road grader in the run game. Remember the shock here after he was cut...before we had a known solution in place? Brisel vs. the committee we've had at right guard is where I have a problem with your statement. Either way I think we can all agree when you have a dominant line you dont replace multiple parts at the same time.

It's funny to read a thread 2 1/2 months later. A thread thats in the right place.

Leach and Ryans were over paid for their use here and I didn't feel like we could justify either with a cap to navigate. Briesel left voluntarily, so our opinions dont really matter here. Dreesen, ehhh. I guess Winston (and jacoby freaking jones) are the only ones I truly take issue with.

Uncle Rico
01-01-2013, 04:50 PM
i have never understood how a team so close, would be so frugal. considering the texans as a franchise are what, the 5th or 6th most valuable sports franchise according to forbes? Is paying a luxury tax or giving up late round picks as a slap on the wrist really enough to make Bobby Mac become shiesty?

If we had all the guys mentioned in this thread we'd be in such a better place. hindisight is 20/20 right? only that many people were scratching their heads when all those guys were let go.

the texans = make 1 good move, but then make 5 dumb ones.

eriadoc
01-01-2013, 04:57 PM
I'll take this thread up a notch. Y'all are focusing on these four players, and that's fine, but consider this: Two players remain from the '06, '07, and '08 drafts. We've been told that the team is building through the draft. Well, if that's true, then you have to hit more than you miss and you have to keep the hits as best you can. So either Kubiak did a poor job drafting in those years, or the team has essentially rebuilt again.

By way of contrast, the Steelers, who the Texans have claimed to want to emulate, have at least nine players from their '06-'08 drafts. I don't know their roster and didn't actually check it, so those are just the ones off the top of my head. There may actually be more. I'd be willing to bet the better teams in the NFL have at least six players on their roster still from those three drafts. Player careers average about 3.3 years, so there's a bit of rebuilding involved every year. Therefore, when you hit a winner, you have to find a way to keep them.

Everyone talks about the cap problems that made the Texans lose those players, but the Texans are the ones that put themselves in cap hell. The better teams manage to keep their good players on a more consistent basis. They'll lose guys like Mario Williams, because that's ridiculous, but they'll keep guys like Ryans, Winston, and Dreesen.

The guy running the team has been doing it now for seven full seasons, and three players remain from his first three seasons or earlier. So yeah, it takes seven years to build a winner when you waste the first three years.

powda
01-01-2013, 05:22 PM
I'll take this thread up a notch. Y'all are focusing on these four players, and that's fine, but consider this: Two players remain from the '06, '07, and '08 drafts. We've been told that the team is building through the draft. Well, if that's true, then you have to hit more than you miss and you have to keep the hits as best you can. So either Kubiak did a poor job drafting in those years, or the team has essentially rebuilt again.

By way of contrast, the Steelers, who the Texans have claimed to want to emulate, have at least nine players from their '06-'08 drafts. I don't know their roster and didn't actually check it, so those are just the ones off the top of my head. There may actually be more. I'd be willing to bet the better teams in the NFL have at least six players on their roster still from those three drafts. Player careers average about 3.3 years, so there's a bit of rebuilding involved every year. Therefore, when you hit a winner, you have to find a way to keep them.

Everyone talks about the cap problems that made the Texans lose those players, but the Texans are the ones that put themselves in cap hell. The better teams manage to keep their good players on a more consistent basis. They'll lose guys like Mario Williams, because that's ridiculous, but they'll keep guys like Ryans, Winston, and Dreesen.

The guy running the team has been doing it now for seven full seasons, and three players remain from his first three seasons or earlier. So yeah, it takes seven years to build a winner when you waste the first three years.

Good points here. You cant talk about the draft, free agency, and the cap without mentioning rick smith. He didnt inherent cap hell, he created it. I've had more faith in our recent drafts then durring the casserly regime (puke.) BUT if you dont keep any of those players who cares...your just forcing your draft success rate to be higher to win.

infantrycak
01-01-2013, 05:32 PM
By way of contrast, the Steelers, who the Texans have claimed to want to emulate, have at least nine players from their '06-'08 drafts. I don't know their roster and didn't actually check it, so those are just the ones off the top of my head. There may actually be more. I'd be willing to bet the better teams in the NFL have at least six players on their roster still from those three drafts. Player careers average about 3.3 years, so there's a bit of rebuilding involved every year. Therefore, when you hit a winner, you have to find a way to keep them.

It's four - Willie Colon '06, LaMarr Woodley '07, Lawrence Timmons '07 and Rashad Mendenhall '08.

Good points here. You cant talk about the draft, free agency, and the cap without mentioning rick smith. He didnt inherent cap hell, he created it.

Actually Smith did inherent cap hell and a worse kind. The Texans were carrying tons of dead money for guys not on the roster. We are up against the cap now but with little dead money so we are getting use for people on the roster.

powda
01-01-2013, 06:22 PM
Actually Smith did inherent cap hell and a worse kind. The Texans were carrying tons of dead money for guys not on the roster. We are up against the cap now but with little dead money so we are getting use for people on the roster.

Our current cap, at least previous to cutting winston was far worse then anything he inherited 7 years ago. The focus here regardless should be 7 years....7 years. Smith gets no free pass for our cap scenerio.I maintain my previous comment.

76Texan
01-01-2013, 07:58 PM
It's four - Willie Colon '06, LaMarr Woodley '07, Lawrence Timmons '07 and Rashad Mendenhall '08.



Actually Smith did inherent cap hell and a worse kind. The Texans were carrying tons of dead money for guys not on the roster. We are up against the cap now but with little dead money so we are getting use for people on the roster.

The Pats retained 3 guys from their 06-08 draft.

The kicker from 06.
Mayo, a LB, from 08.
And a seldom-used ST player named Matt Slater (I bet hardly anybody even knows who he is, and what he does).

infantrycak
01-01-2013, 07:59 PM
Our current cap, at least previous to cutting winston was far worse then anything he inherited 7 years ago.

So bumping up against the cap because you have $20+ mil in dead money is better than bumping up against the cap because you spent cap money to acquire free agents like JJo and Manning and do contract extensions for guys like Duane Brown, AJ, Foster? Yeah that makes sense.

powda
01-01-2013, 08:21 PM
Yeah that makes sense.

I dont care about anything related to the cap 7 years ago as it has zero bearing on anything related to today - though what he inherited vs last years figure coupled with the losses we've had to take (see thread title, should we include people like dunta etc?) display mismanagement. Exonerating smith today because of anything 7 years ago makes sense to you? Thats just dumb, and suggesting he has no control over the talent kept and bought in here is even dumber. If your giving him a free pass thats exactly what your doing. This is the same guy who cut talent to sign jacoby.

utahmark
01-01-2013, 08:34 PM
i have never understood how a team so close, would be so frugal. considering the texans as a franchise are what, the 5th or 6th most valuable sports franchise according to forbes? Is paying a luxury tax or giving up late round picks as a slap on the wrist really enough to make Bobby Mac become shiesty?
If we had all the guys mentioned in this thread we'd be in such a better place. hindisight is 20/20 right? only that many people were scratching their heads when all those guys were let go.

the texans = make 1 good move, but then make 5 dumb ones.

It's a hard cap dude. This is not the nba. There is no luxury tax.

Honoring Earl 34
01-01-2013, 08:37 PM
As far as the OL goes , the Texans have some guys that will be FAs next year and rotate the guys in that they're grooming to take their place . That gets you a cluster real quick .

mridge01
01-01-2013, 08:57 PM
I don't really get the point of this thread. The texans were 10-6 last season with these guys and 12-4 without them this season. Agree with another poster, all role players. Coaches just haven't been able to make adjust with the league catching up to them. OP made some interesting observations regarding the decreased production in the run game, but I think a lot of that is on Arian not running as hard. Ben Tate and Justin forsett are each averaging over 4 yards per carry, 4.3 and 5.9 respectively. Of the current issues, I don't think not retaining the players listed are one of them. Demeco Ryans was not very impactful for the eagles. This defense misses Cushing more.

Grungo_Taco
01-01-2013, 09:01 PM
I don't really get the point of this thread. The texans were 10-6 last season with these guys and 12-4 without them this season. Agree with another poster, all role players. Coaches just haven't been able to make adjust with the league catching up to them. OP made some interesting observations regarding the decreased production in the run game, but I think a lot of that is on Arian not running as hard. Ben Tate and Justin forsett are each averaging over 4 yards per carry, 4.3 and 5.9 respectively. Of the current issues, I don't think not retaining the players listed are one of them. Demeco Ryans was not very impactful for the eagles. This defense misses Cushing more.

I agree. This thread is totally "pissing in the wind". Those guys are gone, get over it & move on.

powda
01-01-2013, 09:04 PM
I agree. This tread is totally "pissing in the wind". Those guys are gone, get over it & move on.

Its only pissing in a mild wind. The guys who made those choices are still here and there is a matter of accountability. Personally, I think this team misses winston's production a lot.

Grungo_Taco
01-01-2013, 09:19 PM
Its only pissing in a mild wind. The guys who made those choices are still here and there is a matter of accountability. Personally, I think this team misses winston's production a lot.

The right side of the line has been a problem. But, it seems like most texans fans have forgot about Winston's poor pass protection & untimely penalties. I miss Winston, but I don't think our offense would all of a sudden "click" if he came back. Our entire OLine is getting destroyed off the line (besides brown & brooks). It seems like having the zone blocking schema as the backbone of an nfl offense is becoming outdated. Teams are maintaining the backside cut, and the one cut lanes. We need to pass to set up the run.. and only one man can make that happen. Paging Mr. Schaub.. I repeat, Paging Mr. Schaub.

powda
01-01-2013, 09:30 PM
The right side of the line has been a problem. But, it seems like most texans fans have forgot about Winston's poor pass protection & untimely penalties. I miss Winston, but I don't think our offense would all of a sudden "click" if he came back. Our entire OLine is getting destroyed off the line (besides brown & brooks). It seems like having the zone blocking schema as the backbone of an nfl offense is becoming outdated. Teams are maintaining the backside cut, and the one cut lanes. We need to pass to set up the run.. and only one man can make that happen. Paging Mr. Schaub.. I repeat, Paging Mr. Schaub.

Teams are being way more disciplined against us...and newton cant secure the corner like winston on the stretch. As many times as i cussed winston for his false starts he always excelled there. Just thought it was dumb to make 2 changes there in the same season. And yup...there were times schaub would pass to set up the run...havent seen it lately.

The rest of the nfl has caught up with our scheme and player weaknesses. Not good.

Grungo_Taco
01-01-2013, 09:35 PM
Teams are being way more disciplined against us...and newton cant secure the corner like winston on the stretch. As many times as i cussed winston for his false starts he always excelled there. Just thought it was dumb to make 2 changes there in the same season. And yup...there were times schaub would pass to set up the run...havent seen it lately.

The rest of the nfl has caught up with our scheme and player weaknesses. Not good.

No doubt. Also, Owen Daniels has been a shell of himself the past 5-6 weeks. He's clearly playing through pain, and doing a poor job of it. Seems like Schaub goes as Daniels goes.. And right now, Schaub's safety net is not playing up to his potential due to injury. And... I put that on Kubiak. But, you know Kubes, if you are hurt and can't play... That's a one way ticket to his doghouse. Just ask Ben Tate.

Tailgate
01-01-2013, 11:02 PM
I agree. This thread is totally "pissing in the wind". Those guys are gone, get over it & move on.

This team has certainly moved on and well, you see the results.

Grungo_Taco
01-01-2013, 11:43 PM
This team has certainly moved on and well, you see the results.

If you think adding ryans, winston, brisiel (who all graded out negatively via football outsiders) would change anything.. There is nothing I can say. This team's slump begins and ends with Kubiak and Schaub. I'd put our nonexistent OLB pass rush right up there with them.

Tailgate
01-02-2013, 08:26 AM
If you think adding ryans, winston, brisiel (who all graded out negatively via football outsiders) would change anything.. There is nothing I can say. This team's slump begins and ends with Kubiak and Schaub. I'd put our nonexistent OLB pass rush right up there with them.

And if you think adding all of these guys back would not change anything then there is nothing I can say to you either...

thunderkyss
01-02-2013, 08:36 AM
Eshh. Pretty bold statement. Dont get me wrong, winston was no superstar in pass pro but he was a road grader in the run game. Remember the shock here after he was cut...before we had a known solution in place? Brisel vs. the committee we've had at right guard is where I have a problem with your statement. Either way I think we can all agree when you have a dominant line you dont replace multiple parts at the same time.

It's funny to read a thread 2 1/2 months later. A thread thats in the right place.

Leach and Ryans were over paid for their use here and I didn't feel like we could justify either with a cap to navigate. Briesel left voluntarily, so our opinions dont really matter here. Dreesen, ehhh. I guess Winston (and jacoby freaking jones) are the only ones I truly take issue with.

I was against giving Eric such a big contract from the beginning. I'd have much rather kept Ryans & I mentioned an injury to Cushing being the main reason. I understand the numbers don't work out, but I thought he would be interested in restructuring. At the $$ he got, I'm fine with letting him go.

I wouldn't have had a problem paying Leach, but it looked like we decided to go with Jacoby. A year later & he's gone so that decision doesn't look like such a good one either.

Long story short, I was shocked to see they cut Winston, but I wasn't upset or anxious in the slightest.

thunderkyss
01-02-2013, 08:52 AM
Teams are being way more disciplined against us...and newton cant secure the corner like winston on the stretch.

Some of Foster's biggest runs have been to the right. I think his longest run was to the right. Sunday, the only problem I saw running to the right was when OD was there trying to block a LB.

Other than that, Newton is doing his job. Winston was stronger, I'll give you that. He probably blew people off the ball much more explosively than Newton does. I don't have any negatives on Winston in the run game, but Newton is doing his job just fine.

HOU-TEX
01-02-2013, 08:59 AM
I miss both Cushing and D-Ryans the most. Watching our ILB's nowadays is like watching two monkeys f---in a football.

deucetx
01-02-2013, 09:33 AM
I'm sure others said it but some of these I can't hold against the team.

Brisiel, Leach, Ryan - too much salary. Brisiel was overpaid by the Raiders who now fans want gone after a piss poor season on his end. Leach got way too much for a FB who would not be on the field as much in our system. We still could have grabbed a cheaper option like we did in Vickers but oh well. Ryans was making too much too for his spot in the system. Would have been nice with Cush going down but that is hindsight and if Cush didn't get injured Ryans still would have been overpaid. Can't really calculate for injuries in such situations.

Heh with that said...I still miss the guy's leadership and his drive on the field.

Dressen - Graham has graded to be a blocker just as good or just slightly less than Dressen so there was no dropoff there. BUT...Owen Daniels can't block for crap. A double tight with Dressen and Graham would have been nice but defense would pick up on that rather easily since Daniels is the better receiving option of those.

Winston - I understand the salary issue. Only problem I had with this is they didn't even attempt to talk to him about restructure. He was definitely being overpaid but would have been nice if they attempted to some sort of communication with the guy about making his contract better for the team. I see some teams that have financial experts just for this that can make these deals happen. We don't seem to be in that same boat.

Texan_Touchdown
01-02-2013, 12:37 PM
were 23rd in the league in ypc because we can't throw the ball. Our offense is based on setting up the run with the pass, then later in the game running and setting up the pass. its' suppose to keep the defense guessing but gets really predicable when your quaterback can't throw the ball. to anyone beyone his first read.

Texan_Touchdown
01-02-2013, 12:42 PM
I'm sure others said it but some of these I can't hold against the team.

Brisiel, Leach, Ryan - too much salary. Brisiel was overpaid by the Raiders who now fans want gone after a piss poor season on his end. Leach got way too much for a FB who would not be on the field as much in our system. We still could have grabbed a cheaper option like we did in Vickers but oh well. Ryans was making too much too for his spot in the system. Would have been nice with Cush going down but that is hindsight and if Cush didn't get injured Ryans still would have been overpaid. Can't really calculate for injuries in such situations.

Heh with that said...I still miss the guy's leadership and his drive on the field.

Dressen - Graham has graded to be a blocker just as good or just slightly less than Dressen so there was no dropoff there. BUT...Owen Daniels can't block for crap. A double tight with Dressen and Graham would have been nice but defense would pick up on that rather easily since Daniels is the better receiving option of those.

Winston - I understand the salary issue. Only problem I had with this is they didn't even attempt to talk to him about restructure. He was definitely being overpaid but would have been nice if they attempted to some sort of communication with the guy about making his contract better for the team. I see some teams that have financial experts just for this that can make these deals happen. We don't seem to be in that same boat.

Yeah I agree with everything u said. They were all pretty much over paid and it's time to re stock. Winston was the hardest for me pretty much like everybody else. I really believe our run offense would have been better but who knows. I thought Dreesen was a great target for Schuab in the endzone but now its nobody.

76Texan
01-02-2013, 01:04 PM
Yeah I agree with everything u said. They were all pretty much over paid and it's time to re stock. Winston was the hardest for me pretty much like everybody else. I really believe our run offense would have been better but who knows. I thought Dreesen was a great target for Schuab in the endzone but now its nobody.
It would have been nice to be able to retain those guys, but we can't.

It took 5 years for Dreessen to become a valid target; Graham has pretty much gotten there in 3 years.

We just can't afford nearly $3M on a second TE (and his cap hit would have been $3.3M this year.)

Mr teX
01-02-2013, 01:04 PM
were 23rd in the league in ypc because we can't throw the ball. Our offense is based on setting up the run with the pass, then later in the game running and setting up the pass. its' suppose to keep the defense guessing but gets really predicable when your quaterback can't throw the ball. to anyone beyone his first read.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-hq-videos/0ap2000000118462/Warner-s-Corner-Texans-offensive-flaws

He knows a little bit about passing the ball & i couldn't agree with him more by the way. All of this about Schaub is valid.........to a point..

eriadoc
01-02-2013, 02:46 PM
It would have been nice to be able to retain those guys, but we can't.

It took 5 years for Dreessen to become a valid target; Graham has pretty much gotten there in 3 years.

We just can't afford nearly $3M on a second TE (and his cap hit would have been $3.3M this year.)

At least the transition from Dreesen to Graham resembles something like an actual plan. The transition from Winston to Butler/Newton/Harris looks like the staff has no idea WTF they're doing. The transition from Leach to Casey at least had some concept of using the FB in different scenarios, even if they haven't done that very often. The transition from Ryans to Bradie James ... well, if you can't say anything nice, don't say it, so I'll hush now.

76Texan
01-02-2013, 03:11 PM
At least the transition from Dreesen to Graham resembles something like an actual plan. The transition from Winston to Butler/Newton/Harris looks like the staff has no idea WTF they're doing. The transition from Leach to Casey at least had some concept of using the FB in different scenarios, even if they haven't done that very often. The transition from Ryans to Bradie James ... well, if you can't say anything nice, don't say it, so I'll hush now.

They probably wanted to keep Winston, but the numbers didn't quite work out; hence the late scratch. It's just my guess, but since they've been covering their bases pretty timely (as much as time allows) the last few years, I really think that was the case. Then Butler became another scratch; it was a good thing that they can find a quick patch in Harris. It shows me that they've been doing their homework.

Demeco is another cap casualty, IMHO.
In Wade's system, if he needs to, the D only needs one monster at ILB.
Wade probably thought we can get by with James (not me) and Dobbins while waiting for Sharpton to return. It was just too bad that we lost Cushing.

eriadoc
01-02-2013, 03:24 PM
They probably wanted to keep Winston, but the numbers didn't quite work out; hence the late scratch. It's just my guess, but since they've been covering their bases pretty timely (as much as time allows) the last few years, I really think that was the case. Then Butler became another scratch; it was a good thing that they can find a quick patch in Harris. It shows me that they've been doing their homework.

Demeco is another cap casualty, IMHO.
In Wade's system, if he needs to, the D only needs one monster at ILB.
Wade probably thought we can get by with James (not me) and Dobbins while waiting for Sharpton to return. It was just too bad that we lost Cushing.

I never thought Butler could replace Winston. I never thought Sharpton was good enough to replace Ryans. I never thought Bradie James should be playing this much.

thunderkyss
01-02-2013, 03:28 PM
The transition from Winston to Butler/Newton/Harris looks like the staff has no idea WTF they're doing.

Maybe injury had something to do with that. Butler was the guy. Got hurt. Newton was the guy, got hurt. Harris was not the guy, but the team fought hard when that third stringer was in there & managed to win some games though they weren't playing their best.

Newton is now healthy & he's back in there.

eriadoc
01-02-2013, 03:32 PM
Maybe injury had something to do with that. Butler was the guy. Got hurt. Newton was the guy, got hurt. Harris was not the guy, but the team fought hard when that third stringer was in there & managed to win some games though they weren't playing their best.

Newton is now healthy & he's back in there.

Butler sucked before he got hurt. Newton is not as good in pass pro as Winston, and that was Winston's weakest point. Newton isn't as good as Winston in run blocking, obviously. I'm not bagging on Newton, as he's a first time starter. But the coaches made the decision that Butler was going to be the guy, when they should have known full well that he wasn't ready for prime time. Butler lost the job to Newton before he ever got hurt. They screwed up in evaluating their guy. It happens. You just have to plan well enough that you don't take a chance on a new guy on OL while taking a chance on a new guy right next to him on OL.

76Texan
01-02-2013, 03:42 PM
I never thought Butler could replace Winston. I never thought Sharpton was good enough to replace Ryans. I never thought Bradie James should be playing this much.

Obviously not, but that's besides the point.
Many of the guys we spent our cap money on didn't have a good year.

Cushing got hurt.
Antonio plays hurt.
O.D. Plays hurt.
J.Joe plays hurt.
Wade Smith plays hurt.
Myers underperformed, so did D. Brown.

If you like, you can add Schaub and Foster.

These are among the top 12 in the salary structure.
With that many key cogs under-perform for whatever reason, why is it surprising that the team isn't doing well of late?

thunderkyss
01-02-2013, 03:59 PM
Butler sucked before he got hurt. Newton is not as good in pass pro as Winston, and that was Winston's weakest point. Newton isn't as good as Winston in run blocking, obviously. I'm not bagging on Newton, as he's a first time starter. But the coaches made the decision that Butler was going to be the guy, when they should have known full well that he wasn't ready for prime time. Butler lost the job to Newton before he ever got hurt. They screwed up in evaluating their guy. It happens. You just have to plan well enough that you don't take a chance on a new guy on OL while taking a chance on a new guy right next to him on OL.

I don't know if it wasn't a measured gamble that they had both Butler & Newton that helped them make that decision. If they had just Butler, or just Newton they may have made some attempt to keep Winston.

dalemurphy
01-02-2013, 09:43 PM
With Winston, Briesel, and Dreessen, we'd have 14 wins and be heading to the Superbowl, IMO. However, to do that, we would've had to do things financially that would have sacrificed the next few years. Now, we go into next year with a relatively healthy cap situation, 3-4 compensatory picks, and a group of young players that have gained valuable experience. Brooks, Jones, and Newton will likely be much improved next year and will be competing with other young talent acquired as a result of the extra picks gained in this year's blood-letting.

I'm guessing we may cut Wade Smith, let Caldwell go, do something in free agency to address one of the guard positions or RT, and then draft a couple guys in the middle rounds. I would expect, also, a TE to be selected by round 5. Other than the possible loss of Barwin, I think most of the team's talent returns next year- more experienced with more competition and a much deeper bench. This team is in great position for a long, successful run. Those hard decisions hurt this year but keep the prosperity going forward. This is what happens to all the successful organizations (New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New York Giants)... Interesting to see how Philadelphia has fallen apart as they have moved away from this philosoph and began to covet and over pay veteran players. That defense is full of veteran stars in their prime, all being paid at a premium... How bad were they?! As much as I miss Demeco, who got the better end of that deal? As an Eagle fan, giving up a 3rd and a 4th for Demeco has to look a lot like our Phillip Buchanan trade of '05.

HJam72
01-03-2013, 07:39 AM
I just felt like 'Meco was more deserving of more money in a 4-3.

76Texan
01-03-2013, 08:46 AM
I just felt like 'Meco was more deserving of more money in a 4-3.

To me, the Texans setting Demeco up with a team that run a 4-3 was a good effort by all to find a good home for him. He can play more snaps and he can be more productive there, thus enhancing his chance of getting another good pay day later on.
I believe that Demeco understood that the move was better for his career.

76Texan
01-03-2013, 08:56 AM
I don't know if it wasn't a measured gamble that they had both Butler & Newton that helped them make that decision. If they had just Butler, or just Newton they may have made some attempt to keep Winston.

I hope to see what they've been doing with Nick Mondek this whole time on the PS. He's a converted DT that played guard his last two years at Purdue.
Looks like the Texans want to see what he can do at OT.

The guy is around 305.
He ran a mid 4.80, with a crazy unheard of 1.59 in 10-yd split at 300 LBs.
And his 3-cone is a mere 7.3

dalemurphy
01-03-2013, 09:01 AM
I hope to see what they've been doing with Nick Mondek this whole time on the PS. He's a converted DT that played guard his last two years at Purdue.
Looks like the Texans want to see what he can do at OT.

The guy is around 305.
He ran a mid 4.80, with a crazy unheard of 1.59 in 10-yd split at 300 LBs.
And his 3-cone is a mere 7.3

RG would have been a strength this year if they wouldn't have dumped Shelley Smith. I'm not sure why they never trusted him... Who knows? Of course, the Steelers cut James Harrison three times before protecting him on their roster. So, those things happen.

HOU-TEX
01-03-2013, 09:07 AM
RG would have been a strength this year if they wouldn't have dumped Shelley Smith. I'm not sure why they never trusted him... Who knows? Of course, the Steelers cut James Harrison three times before protecting him on their roster. So, those things happen.

:spit: I was waiting for one of these gems from you.

76Texan
01-03-2013, 09:16 AM
RG would have been a strength this year if they wouldn't have dumped Shelley Smith. I'm not sure why they never trusted him... Who knows? Of course, the Steelers cut James Harrison three times before protecting him on their roster. So, those things happen.

It's a little perplexing for me right there, too.

the Titans immediately put in a claim for him, but the Rams got him first.
He's a starter at LG for them in 6 games now (splitting time in a rotation like we've doing with Caldwell, Jones, and now Brooks at RG.

dalemurphy
01-03-2013, 02:13 PM
:spit: I was waiting for one of these gems from you.

With the lack of experience at the guard position, don't you think letting Smith go was an errant move (Smith is an NFL starter right now)... Did we really need to keep Gardner on the roster at Smith's expense?

76Texan
01-03-2013, 05:34 PM
With the lack of experience at the guard position, don't you think letting Smith go was an errant move (Smith is an NFL starter right now)... Did we really need to keep Gardner on the roster at Smith's expense?

I think they were hoping to sneak him onto the Practice Squad.
His plays were somewhat inconsistent during PS (just like everybody out there.)
Not the best of moves.

Grungo_Taco
01-03-2013, 11:04 PM
Will these guys ultimately be the undoing of our Team?

I knew coming into this season that this would be the year that defines our current regime. I know there is ALOT of ball left to be played, and its certainly possible that we improve on last year. But, I have this bad feeling that these guys are going to ultimately be the death of us.


Dreeseen - We sorely miss his blocking abilities in the 2 TE formation.

Ryans - He was a true leader and the ONLY reason we could afford losing him was because of Cush. We now have a gaping hole in the middle of the field as a result of the injury.

Winston and Brisiel - Well, looks as though these guys are not as easily replacable as we had hoped to this point. It has been a never ending rotation at both positions and I see no light at the end of the tunnel yet as far as long term solutions.

Leach - I know he was gone 2 years ago, and having Casey is fantastic and adds another dimension, but I dont think this balances out positively for us.


The Texans are currently 23rd in the league with a 3.8 ypc average. 23rd in the league. Color me very concerned. Will our playaction continue to be a strength?

Look... the Texans may very well go out and beat Baltimore and everything might be hunky dory. But I feel like we have lost some serious toughness in the O-line and the teeth of our D, the middle (which was already a weakness) is going to be exploited.

And I know we could not afford all of these guys, and its all apart of the business. But man, all the talk was a Super Bowl run after last year, when in reality... its looking almost like a stop gap solution, another playoff hello, until we can fix these areas of the team long term and become true contenders for the Super Bowl.

I would not want to be Kubiak or Phillips right now. But I hope they find the way. A 5-0 head start certaily helps the cause. Lets hope we get that hot again at the end of the season.

Beat Balty! Go Texans!!!

did you call charlie & lance's show today about these players? :clown:

Tailgate
01-04-2013, 01:06 PM
did you call charlie & lance's show today about these players? :clown:

I only call if I am in my clown costume, which is at the cleaners.