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View Full Version : No Huddle vs. Our Defense


Cjeremy635
10-17-2012, 10:45 PM
Obviously, GB ran it to a "T" and didn't allow us to change personnel as needed. I remember seeing the Ravens run no huddle in a game I watched earlier this season and they executed it really well.

My concern is that if we don't make the correct adjustments from last week, this could be another blowout. Rice is a beast & they've got a great FB in Vonta. If we're relying on Quin to stop the run again, it's gonna be a long day unless a few more D lineman step up their game.

Anyone else worried about the same thing? Is the no huddle going to be our kryptonite?

kiwitexansfan
10-18-2012, 12:36 AM
Rodgers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flacco.

run-david-run
10-18-2012, 01:30 AM
If Vonta is on the field, we'll be in our base defense, 3-4. The battle here is going to be stopping the pass enough from the hurry up to force them into a more run-oriented formation so we can use the creativity of the 3-4. Then we have to stop the run.

Collingsworth pointed it out a lot and it's something I have been concerned with: a lot of our best stuff comes out of the 3-4. When teams spread us out, you lose the play-calling advantage Wade brings because you just can't do as much disguise. There's 4 guys who are coming and 1 or 2 potential blitzers, but it does take much of the guessing out of the equation for the offense.

Teams like the Packers, Saints and Pats are likely to give us more trouble than the rest. The Ravens are trying to because something in that mold, so we'll see how both our teams are adapting to this new offensive system.

kiwitexansfan
10-18-2012, 04:41 AM
The Ravens seemed to get off to a good start with their more open offense but it seems to have stalled lately.

Not sure Flacco is the QB to run that offense well.

NastyNate
10-18-2012, 05:09 AM
The Ravens seemed to get off to a good start with their more open offense but it seems to have stalled lately.

Not sure Flacco is the QB to run that offense well.

I don't think you've paid attention to that team. The offense is playing lights out right now, and it's very effective.

CloakNNNdagger
10-18-2012, 07:35 AM
The Ravens seemed to get off to a good start with their more open offense but it seems to have stalled lately.

Not sure Flacco is the QB to run that offense well.

With a vertical offense, it takes only a handful of passes to get you close or into the EZ..........if you can't stop the run and can't get to the QB, as was the case last week, you better have the ability to intercept the ball.

ajohnson80
10-18-2012, 08:12 AM
I'm not sure its flacco as much as it is boldin, smith and rice. Boldin and Smith are big and physical so flacco can just throw it high and in their general area and they overpower corners to come down with the ball.

Perki-Perk
10-18-2012, 12:23 PM
I've gotta be honest.

Last week our D played horrible and it could have been adjusting to no Cushing.

I kept waiting for the usual turnover that we've become acustomed to, but it never came. I kept waiting for that disciplined defense to make a stand, and it didn't happen.

We need to treat the game against GB like they treated the Alamo so long ago, and rally around the cry, "Remember the blowout at Reliant".

We can not afford to succomb to anyone on our own field and to be a legit SB contender, we have to beat at least one of Chicago or NE in their house in a regular season match up.

CloakNNNdagger
10-18-2012, 12:26 PM
I've gotta be honest.

Last week our D played horrible and it could have been adjusting to no Cushing.

I kept waiting for the usual turnover that we've become acustomed to, but it never came. I kept waiting for that disciplined defense to make a stand, and it didn't happen.

We need to treat the game against GB like they treated the Alamo so long ago, and rally around the cry, "Remember the blowout at Reliant".

We can not afford to succomb to anyone on our own field and to be a legit SB contender, we have to beat at least one of Chicago or NE in their house in a regular season match up.

I think you meant Baltimore.

Cjeremy635
10-18-2012, 12:30 PM
I think you meant Baltimore.

No, he got it right. He was saying to treat the game against GB like the Texan soldiers treated the Alamo, use it as a motivational tool.

"Remember the Alamo!"

"Remember the a$$ kicking by Green Bay!"

CloakNNNdagger
10-18-2012, 12:49 PM
No, he got it right. He was saying to treat the game against GB like the Texan soldiers treated the Alamo, use it as a motivational tool.

"Remember the Alamo!"

"Remember the a$$ kicking by Green Bay!"

Yep.

thunderkyss
10-18-2012, 12:56 PM
Obviously, GB ran it to a "T" and didn't allow us to change personnel as needed. I remember seeing the Ravens run no huddle in a game I watched earlier this season and they executed it really well.

My concern is that if we don't make the correct adjustments from last week, this could be another blowout. Rice is a beast & they've got a great FB in Vonta. If we're relying on Quin to stop the run again, it's gonna be a long day unless a few more D lineman step up their game.

Anyone else worried about the same thing? Is the no huddle going to be our kryptonite?

It's all about match-ups. I think Wade's main package, 3 safeties is so versatile that the hurry up isn't really that big a deal, other than the big guys up front running out of gas.

It might not have worked out so well for us against Green Bay, but Flacco is not Rodgers & I'll take Glover Quin in the box against most teams.

Ray Rice is a haul, much worse than CJ2ypc, but the run game isn't a problem if we can get a lead, just like the Titans game. We need to limit the big plays & keep them out of the end-zone. Then the offense has to keep up it's part of the bargain, control the clock & score TDs.

disaacks3
10-18-2012, 01:03 PM
No, he got it right. He was saying to treat the game against GB like the Texan soldiers treated the Alamo, use it as a motivational tool.

"Remember the Alamo!"

"Remember the a$$ kicking by Green Bay!" I'm thinking Goliad, we put up a pretty good fight at the Alamo. :kitten:

b0ng
10-18-2012, 01:08 PM
I'm thinking Goliad, we put up a pretty good fight at the Alamo. :kitten:

So we're hoping for a Battle of San Jacinto here?

EDIT Ravens get to be the Mexicans.

76Texan
10-18-2012, 01:10 PM
If we're relying on Quin to stop the run again, it's gonna be a long day unless a few more D lineman step up their game.



If Vonta is on the field, we'll be in our base defense, 3-4.

Like RDR said, if Leach is on the field, it means that the Ravens will be in 20, 21, or 22 personnel and we won't be in our dime package unless it's 3rd and 22 or something like that.

Dom Capers also runs a 34 defense.
When we spread the field with our own 11 or 12 personnel, the Packers would also be in their nickel or dime package, unless it was 3rd and inches or something like that.

When we run our own no huddle and start with our 11 personnel, other teams would "get stuck" with whatever personnel they have on the D at the time.

It's quite normal in the NFL.
You've just got to be able to defend with whatever personnel you have.

Don't forget that last year, we held the Saints to 17 points into the 4th quarter.
When Mario went out, our pass rush went south (as Reed didn't have many reps up to that point).

This year, the Broncos wouldn't have score that many points on us if we didn't drop so many INTs.

Both ran quite a bit of spread and no huddle.

The Packers RBs averaged 2.83 ypc on 29 carries.
Only the Dolphis gained fewer yards on the ground against us.
I don't get the concern about the opponent running against our dime package.

thunderkyss
10-18-2012, 01:19 PM
EDIT Ravens get to be the Mexicans.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

:kitten:

76Texan
10-18-2012, 01:20 PM
Collingsworth pointed it out a lot and it's something I have been concerned with: a lot of our best stuff comes out of the 3-4. When teams spread us out, you lose the play-calling advantage Wade brings because you just can't do as much disguise. There's 4 guys who are coming and 1 or 2 potential blitzers, but it does take much of the guessing out of the equation for the offense.



We can still disguise our blitz; we can send the nickel back in for the blitz.

Or we can mix in our 46 look.

We can bring one or both safeties up.

It all depends on how aggressive Wade wants to play it.

And don't forget that in passing situations, we go to our nickel and dime package a lot. And it's by choice!

gtexan02
10-18-2012, 01:36 PM
Successful defense against a no huddle requires a commanding linebacker to get the defensive plays in quickly and get his guys into the right position.

Cushing was missed pretty badly against Greenbay.


I'm not as worried about the no huddle of Baltimore as I am against the no huddle of the Patriots. Its the fastest in the league and has put up the most yards

kiwitexansfan
10-18-2012, 02:09 PM
I guess the 9-6 result against the Chiefs was the one that really stuck out in my head.

Maybe that was an anomaly.

FWIW they are scoring less ppg than we are and our offense isn't exactly on fire.

CloakNNNdagger
10-18-2012, 03:38 PM
We can still disguise our blitz; we can send the nickel back in for the blitz.

Or we can mix in our 46 look.

We can bring one or both safeties up.

It all depends on how aggressive Wade wants to play it.

And don't forget that in passing situations, we go to our nickel and dime package a lot. And it's by choice!


If the Texans insist on having J Jo out there, Wade will be quite limited in aggressiveness unless he wants to take the significantly increased risk of not being able to adequately cover the vertical game........and yet another week of potentially quick deadly scores.

DaTruthExplodes
10-18-2012, 04:51 PM
why dont they make changes on defense?

why is it so hard to try different personnel?

if joseph is injured, sit him. give roc carmichael a chance. give brandon harris a chance. they cant be worse than kareem jackson and how joseph is playing.

kareem is still kareem and he and joseph will get burned by flacco who loves to sling the ball and go for big passing plays.

76Texan
10-18-2012, 07:36 PM
If the Texans insist on having J Jo out there, Wade will be quite limited in aggressiveness unless he wants to take the significantly increased risk of not being able to adequately cover the vertical game........and yet another week of potentially quick deadly scores.

Looks like they are going to, so we'll just have to wait to find out how effective J Jo can be.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Thursday-practice/e2fde480-6a58-411f-ab3e-aac085e0ee65

(on CB Johnathan Joseph’s chances to play Sunday) “I’m thinking very positive about it, just me watching him. I really had him do nothing yesterday. He did work with the trainers today. He’s very upbeat, so we’ll see where we’re at tomorrow, but I’ve felt pretty good about him being there for us on Sunday, but until that happens. I think he’s feeling pretty good about it today himself so we’ll see.”

CloakNNNdagger
10-18-2012, 07:50 PM
Looks like they are going to, so we'll just have to wait to find out how effective J Jo can be.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Thursday-practice/e2fde480-6a58-411f-ab3e-aac085e0ee65

(on CB Johnathan Josephs chances to play Sunday) Im thinking very positive about it, just me watching him. I really had him do nothing yesterday. He did work with the trainers today. Hes very upbeat, so well see where were at tomorrow, but Ive felt pretty good about him being there for us on Sunday, but until that happens. I think hes feeling pretty good about it today himself so well see.

Refer to my most recent post in the "Jonathan Joseph?" thread.

Scooter
10-19-2012, 09:56 AM
i was talking to a buddy of mine about this before the packers game, we struggled last season against the hurry up offense as well (outside of an electric game against the falcons). the conclusion that i came to is that it takes wade phillips out of the game. when teams no huddle against us we have to play a vanilla package or pre-set calls, instead of getting our plays from the sideline. we saw what happened last year without wade, we were completely unable to make adjustments - and that's what i see happening against hurry up offenses, we become talent without direction and are forced to react on defense.

thunderkyss
10-19-2012, 10:20 AM
i was talking to a buddy of mine about this before the packers game, we struggled last season against the hurry up offense as well (outside of an electric game against the falcons). the conclusion that i came to is that it takes wade phillips out of the game. when teams no huddle against us we have to play a vanilla package or pre-set calls, instead of getting our plays from the sideline. we saw what happened last year without wade, we were completely unable to make adjustments - and that's what i see happening against hurry up offenses, we become talent without direction and are forced to react on defense.

I would also think they may not have known how to adjust, since they didn't have a full training camp. Sunday night, I saw them moving & rotating on the back end, in a way that I hadn't noticed before, which leads me to believe it's something we'll get better at over time.

76Texan
10-19-2012, 12:32 PM
We did not lose because of the no-huddle.
The Packers were not in a hurry-up offense so we still have some 15-20 secs to send a play in, and that's more than plenty enough time in the NFL.
Rogers took a long time before he called for the snap; the defense had plenty of time to settle in, making sure all the guys were where they were supposed to be.

On their first scoring drive, we stopped and forced them to try a FG, but Posey lined up off-side and give them back the ball.
Here, we had plenty of time to change personnel and make any call we wanted.
They scored on the next play.

On the second TD drive, the clock was stopped after the first play due to Jamison's injury.
After the second play, the ref had to stop the clock to make sure where to spot the ball.
The fourth play was a throw away.
The TV was showing some replays; we can't see the huddle, but there were at least a 20-sec lapse in between a few plays.
On the 6th play when they scored the TD, they went into a full huddle.

On their third drive, there was a measurement after the second play that stopped the clock for a long time.
The third play was a QB sneak that took a long time for Rogers to get back up to call the next play.
It took the ref a little while to set the ball yet Rogers had only 5 sec remaining on the play clock when he called for the snap on the next play.)
The next play was a run and the RB took his time getting back.
There was a semi-huddle (which is really just the same as a huddle) on the next play; they just didn't form a circle around the QB.
They had another huddle after the next play.
This was the play where the bogus PI call occured.
And of course, there's a long break after the call.
They scored on the next play.


...

They started the second half with their usual 3-wide set.
Wade would have made the adjusment if he wanted to, but he stayed with the dime package... because that's what we do...
They had about 3 sec left on the play clock on the second play; ie. they were not anywhere near in hurry-up mode.
This happened quite a bit all day long.
The TV station had time to show several replays.
There were three penalties that stopped the clock on this drive.
They had a full huddle on 3rd and 20 when Quin knock down the pass attempt in the end zone.
Then came the penalty on Barwin.
Watt sacked Rogers on the next play, stopping the clock.
The refs took their time; the Packers were in no hurry to get back to the line; Rogers was in no hurry to call for the snap.
After the penalty on Manning, the Packs called a running play.
Then they went into full huddle on the play they scored the TD.

....

Just before the 4th quarter, they ran a play.
The clock then stopped as the quarter end.
After an incomple pass to start the 4th quarter, the Packers went into full huddle.
They scored on the next play.

Most of the same thing happened on their next scoring drive.
Clock stopped for a measurement.
Play clock going down, sometimes near expiration.
The TV station was able to either show a replay, displayed some graphics, or showed the two guys in the booth, etc.

....

We did not lose because of the no huddle.
We had plenty of opportunities to change our personnel if we wanted to, but we never did... again, because that's what we do.