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El Tejano
10-15-2012, 08:56 AM
What happened to this guy? He looks clueless out there.

gwallaia
10-15-2012, 09:09 AM
He got discount double-checked.

GP
10-15-2012, 09:49 AM
He's obviously a part of Wade's diabolical scheme to get GK fired so WP can get the HC job here.

Just kidding. Sort of... :spy

dream_team
10-15-2012, 10:26 AM
He's obviously a part of Wade's diabolical scheme to get GK fired so WP can get the HC job here.

Just kidding. Sort of... :spy

I know you're sort of kidding, but how does a DC get a HC job by having your defense play like crap?

Mr teX
10-15-2012, 10:36 AM
I don't think anything's wrong with him despite reports of him being nicked up; I don't think its any more than usual anyway. What it is is just after 4 games, he along with the rest of our defense have been scouted & i'm guessing 1 of the things teams saw was how overly-agressive our db's have been this season.

I say this b/c beginning with the jets game, we started to see tons of double moves being put on him & KJ & guys are coming wide open as a result. Teams have also finally started to take notice of Quinn playing down more in the box for run support, which is leaving little to no safety help over the top.

Bottom line is they are getting too agressive at jumping slants and curls & they can't afford to be with little or no safety help over the top.

Other things teams are seeing from the scouting: Barwin and Reed aren't going to beat them. Control Watt and Smith to lesser extent & the other 2 likely aren't going to pick up the slack.

Wade has said that he finds what his players can do well & then he puts them in situations to where they best utilize that particular skill. This is a double edge sword. Quinn was switched to safety b/c it allows for him to best utilize his best skill...which was tackling coming out of college. When put into coverage he struggles....reminds me alot of the Roy Williams debacle in Dallas when Wade was up there.

utahmark
10-15-2012, 10:52 AM
I don't think anything's wrong with him despite reports of him being nicked up; I don't think its any more than usual anyway. What it is is just after 4 games, he along with the rest of our defense have been scouted & i'm guessing 1 of the things teams saw was how overly-agressive our db's have been this season.

I say this b/c beginning with the jets game, we started to see tons of double moves being put on him & KJ & guys are coming wide open as a result. Teams have also finally started to take notice of Quinn playing down more in the box for run support, which is leaving little to no safety help over the top.

Bottom line is they are getting too agressive at jumping slants and curls & they can't afford to be with little or no safety help over the top.

Other things teams are seeing from the scouting: Barwin and Reed aren't going to beat them. Control Watt and Smith to lesser extent & the other 2 likely aren't going to pick up the slack.

Wade has said that he finds what his players can do well & then he puts them in situations to where they best utilize that particular skill. This is a double edge sword. Quinn was switched to safety b/c it allows for him to best utilize his best skill...which was tackling coming out of college. When put into coverage he struggles....reminds me alot of the Roy Williams debacle in Dallas when Wade was up there.

Glover might not be a great cover corner but his coverage skills are more than adequate for a safety.

Mr teX
10-15-2012, 11:06 AM
Glover might not be a great cover corner but his coverage skills are more than adequate for a safety.

No doubt they are. But i think with him in particular, he's gotten so locked in on playing in the box for run support that he's forgotten that coverage is his primary duty 1st & foremost...at least on occassion he's forgotten anyway.

Look at the last 2 games. part of why teams have started going at Joseph & running those inside trap plays is b/c he & Quinn are on the strong side 90% of the time. They're essentially sucking him in more & more with those 1 yard here, 2 yards there runs.

After about 2 or 3 of those they hit him or Joseph over the top. Double moves on Joseph, play action for Quinn. Both guys were beat over the top in 2 consecutive games & Quinn in particular has been beaten in both games.

Vinny
10-15-2012, 11:41 AM
you keep putting your cb's on an island...then get no edge rush against a premiere QB. This is what you get. Nothing wrong with JJ.

Double Barrel
10-15-2012, 11:49 AM
you keep putting your cb's on an island...then get no edge rush against a premiere QB. This is what you get. Nothing wrong with JJ.

I was going to mention the same thing. Somebody in the front 7 needs to step up when they are double/triple teaming Watt. The amount of time that Rodgers had in the pocket was pathetic. I'm pretty sure he called Geico during one of those plays.

HOU-TEX
10-15-2012, 11:54 AM
you keep putting your cb's on an island...then get no edge rush against a premiere QB. This is what you get. Nothing wrong with JJ.

While I agree with your overall point, I do think JJo is struggling more than usual. I wouldn't say he looks "lost", but definitely not the JJo we're used to seeing.

*Random* KJ had perfect coverage on the interference play. All he had to do was turn his head just enough for the ref to think he looked back for the ball and it wouldn't have been called. Just my opinion

GP
10-15-2012, 12:01 PM
I know you're sort of kidding, but how does a DC get a HC job by having your defense play like crap?

Oh I was completely joking.

I threw in that last line just because the template on me is that I'm a big conspiracy guy.

I'm in need of laughs after last night.

Vinny
10-15-2012, 12:06 PM
While I agree with your overall point, I do think JJo is struggling more than usual. I wouldn't say he looks "lost", but definitely not the JJo we're used to seeing.

*Random* KJ had perfect coverage on the interference play. All he had to do was turn his head just enough for the ref to think he looked back for the ball and it wouldn't have been called. Just my opinion He's in the spotlight more because teams are taking more shots with him on an island more. Physically he looks the same to me.

I thought they were nitpicky on the KJ interference play. If you watch the replays his head wasn't totally turned in an ideal manner, but his head was pointed up and at the ball as it was coming down.

Mr teX
10-15-2012, 12:06 PM
you keep putting your cb's on an island...then get no edge rush against a premiere QB. This is what you get. Nothing wrong with JJ.

That's not even really at the heart of it. There were more than a few times Rodgers either stepped up in the pocket from pressure, escaped pressure from his left or right and found someone. Hell, Reed knocked the crap out of Rodgers when he got flushed by pressure on his left side.....still resulted in a TD pass.

Vinny
10-15-2012, 12:07 PM
That's not even really at the heart of it. There were more than a few times Rodgers either stepped up in the pocket from pressure, escaped pressure from his left or right and found someone. Hell, Reed knocked the crap out of Rodgers when he got flushed by pressure on his left side.....still resulted in a TD pass.
and he found his players singled up...on an island.

HOU-TEX
10-15-2012, 12:10 PM
He's in the spotlight more because teams are taking more shots with him on an island more. Physically he looks the same to me.

I thought they were nitpicky on the KJ interference play. If you watch the replays his head wasn't totally turned in an ideal manner, but his head was pointed up and at the ball as it was coming down.

Agreed, it was very nitpicky. I thought Kubiak was going to crap himself yelling so hard at the ref. Heck, I thought my wife was too. She came unglued on that play.

Mr teX
10-15-2012, 12:12 PM
and he found his players singled up...on an island.

no doubt, that post was aimed more at the "no edge rush" part of your post. The edge rush is there, those guys just need to stop running around the tackles so much & collapse the pocket a bit more to give the qb no place to escape to...They're just getting run up field.

ATXtexanfan
10-15-2012, 12:14 PM
and he found his players singled up...on an island.

Yup, Rodgers Brees Peyton brady will take any of their guys one on versus anyone. Thats why their the best. Find the one on one pre snap then attack. Rodgers has more athleticism when things break down

ATXtexanfan
10-15-2012, 12:18 PM
Oops double post

Mr. Texan
10-15-2012, 12:20 PM
the front 7 didn't contain rodgers at all or even rattle him.

that niners game at the beginning of the season they were all in rodgers grill and forced him to stay in the pocket.

pass defense starts with pressure on the qb.

rolyat93
10-15-2012, 12:27 PM
*Random* KJ had perfect coverage on the interference play. All he had to do was turn his head just enough for the ref to think he looked back for the ball and it wouldn't have been called. Just my opinion

Honestly, I don't think KJ even touched the receiver.(His body, or his arms) I don't know what the refs can ask for in that situation.

Mr teX
10-15-2012, 12:29 PM
Honestly, I don't think KJ even touched the receiver.(His body, or his arms) I don't know what the refs can ask for in that situation.

The reason KJ got called for PI was b/c Jones "appeared" to be trying to come back a bit for the ball & KJ ran into him a little which sort of prevented Jones from coming back all the way. That, & KJ half-heartedly looking back to find the ball.

Stemp
10-15-2012, 12:30 PM
the front 7 didn't contain rodgers at all or even rattle him.

that niners game at the beginning of the season they were all in rodgers grill and forced him to stay in the pocket.

pass defense starts with pressure on the qb.

I haven't had a chance to rewatch the game, but from what I could tell, he DIDN't have or need a ton of time in the pocket because he was getting the ball out so fast. And his receivers were making some ridiculous catches to boot. Everything went right for Green Bay, including being on the right side of some questionable calls.

beerlover
10-15-2012, 12:30 PM
JJ & KJ were on the wrong end of an NFL elite QB on a mission who was able to stay clean in the pocket all night. Bad combination.

Vinny
10-15-2012, 12:32 PM
I haven't had a chance to rewatch the game, but from what I could tell, he DIDN't have or need a ton of time in the pocket because he was getting the ball out so fast. And his receivers were making some ridiculous catches to boot. Everything went right for Green Bay, including being on the right side of some questionable calls.when that is happening you go to combo coverages and stop putting your guys on an island 100% of the time. If he gets the ball out without thinking...pick 6. However, when you try to force a pass rush and just leave your guys out to hang, its easy pickings. You can't do this with guys like Rogers, Brady and Brees.

Mr. Texan
10-15-2012, 12:32 PM
those 7 yard cushions didn't help either

Vinny
10-15-2012, 12:32 PM
those 7 yard cushions didn't help either

when your S is in the box playing linebacker you must give a cushion.

Mr teX
10-15-2012, 12:42 PM
which by default you're giving up the slant..a staple of GB's offense.

HOU-TEX
10-15-2012, 12:47 PM
The Colts won last week by supposedly playing press coverage on Packers WRs. I didn't see that game so I'm not sure if that was true or not. Not sure why we didn't do it much if it was true.

TejasTom
10-15-2012, 12:51 PM
The reason KJ got called for PI was b/c Jones "appeared" to be trying to come back a bit for the ball & KJ ran into him a little which sort of prevented Jones from coming back all the way. That, & KJ half-heartedly looking back to find the ball.

KJ was interviewed after game, he asked the ref what he did and said the ref couldn't/wouldn't tell him.

Playoffs
10-15-2012, 01:07 PM
Something is different with J Jo this year ..... not sure what it is, but I'm seeing a difference.

Mr teX
10-15-2012, 01:14 PM
KJ was interviewed after game, he asked the ref what he did and said the ref couldn't/wouldn't tell him.

The ref probably just didn't want to entertain him at that time..Those guys have at least 20-25 encounters if not more where players and coaches are asking about specific plays. In any event, that 1 play was aiken to being pushed down on the ground in the grand scheme of the curb stomping we recieved last night.

silvrhand
10-15-2012, 01:22 PM
Isn't JJ banged up, aka his groin or something? That's brutal on a CB to have groin issues.

noxiousdog
10-15-2012, 01:42 PM
you keep putting your cb's on an island...then get no edge rush against a premiere QB. This is what you get. Nothing wrong with JJ.

msr.

I think you and db are exactly right. An elite qb is going to beat a single covered db's given enough time. And Rodgers was given a lot of time.

CloakNNNdagger
10-15-2012, 02:47 PM
Isn't JJ banged up, aka his groin or something? That's brutal on a CB to have groin issues.

He was listed as having a groin issue in weeks 3 and 4. Week 5 he disappeared from the injury list altogether and reappeared in week 6 as a knee. Despite this, I have heard people and announcers keep talking about his groin slowing him down. Who knows how really accurate any of the injury reports are. However, groin issues can easily turn into or add to knee issues through compensation.

Vinny
10-15-2012, 02:49 PM
He ran well last night. I didn't see any tender running or running like he is protecting anything or limping or anything...he ran well, cut well. He was just on an island with no help a lot.

76Texan
10-15-2012, 03:04 PM
The Colts won last week by supposedly playing press coverage on Packers WRs. I didn't see that game so I'm not sure if that was true or not. Not sure why we didn't do it much if it was true.

I have NFL Game Rewind on right now.
We did play a lot of press coverage to start out the game.

It just seems to me like the Packers have a copy of our game plan or something. They seem to be right on pretty much everything.

HOU-TEX
10-15-2012, 03:09 PM
I have NFL Game Rewind on right now.
We did play a lot of press coverage to start out the game.

It just seems to me like the Packers have a copy of our game plan or something. They seem to be right on pretty much everything.

I told my wife that last night. I told her it was like the Packers were patched into our headsets or something. It was crazy, like they knew every move we were making

76Texan
10-15-2012, 03:46 PM
I told my wife that last night. I told her it was like the Packers were patched into our headsets or something. It was crazy, like they knew every move we were making

I hate to say it, but the refs were partial for the Packers (when they needed it the most.)

On the first TD pass by Rodgers, Nelson clearly pushed off on JJo to get seperation. Chris Collingsworth pointed that out right away.

Vinny
10-15-2012, 03:48 PM
I hate to say it, but the refs were partial for the Packers (when they needed it the most.)

On the first TD pass by Rodgers, Nelson clearly pushed off on JJo to get seperation. Chris Collingsworth pointed that out right away.

Joseph was doing his share of pushing beyond the 5 yard zone if you are being honest...I was talking about that last night with friends.

76Texan
10-15-2012, 03:53 PM
Joseph was doing his share of pushing beyond the 5 yard zone if you are being honest...I was talking about that last night with friends.
Notice I said "when they needed it the most".

Vinny
10-15-2012, 03:56 PM
Notice I said "when they needed it the most". yeah, but the game was being called tight, tight, tight right off the bat. Advantage passing team and not so good for the man coverage team.

CloakNNNdagger
10-15-2012, 04:03 PM
Joseph was doing his share of pushing beyond the 5 yard zone if you are being honest...I was talking about that last night with friends.

You are right. It seems that I notice this in all games more and more. It's almost like offensive holding and defensive illegal use of the hands. And the refs seem to be becoming more and more arbitrary as to when and on which of the paired offenders they call the penalty...........many times that determining the outcome of the game.

Errant Hothy
10-15-2012, 04:29 PM
Per Kubiak's presser; J-Jo day-to-day with a sore groin.

76Texan
10-15-2012, 04:41 PM
You are right. It seems that I notice this in all games more and more. It's almost like offensive holding and defensive illegal use of the hands. And the refs seem to be becoming more and more arbitrary as to when and on which of the paired offenders they call the penalty...........many times that determining the outcome of the game.

The wider the grey area, the more leeway they have.
And that's exactly what they want.

thunderkyss
10-15-2012, 08:33 PM
you keep putting your cb's on an island...then get no edge rush against a premiere QB. This is what you get. Nothing wrong with JJ.

This was a big part of the problem last night for sure. We were asking our corners to cover for 4+ seconds, 5+ on many occasions & when Rodgers got out of the box, it's over. DBs are at such a poor disadvantage in this situation it isn't funny, especially when you're talking one on one with no safety help.

That being said, Jjo has been off his game for quite some time. I mentioned a while back that he wasn't playing near the same pro-bowl level since game 2. People thought I was crazy & lacked any football sense, yet two weeks later they come public that he's been dealing with a groin issue.

This kind of thing can be bad for us. He could heal... I doubt it as long as they keep asking him to cover the other teams best WR for a whole game. Or, it could get worse & we lose him when we need him most.

His pay has gone from, "good but not as good as he has been" to "starting to get picked on" Might as well throw Ball & Harris out there, let them get some game experience & help Jjo heal. We're going to get the same level of play regardless.

wolf123
10-15-2012, 08:37 PM
Fidd, You said it after he completely shut down a top WR..... He play in the denver game was lights out. He's been terrible the past two game..

TEXANRED
10-15-2012, 08:38 PM
I know you're sort of kidding, but how does a DC get a HC job by having your defense play like crap?

Dallas' O sucked butt and the OC got promoted after wade was let go.

TEXANRED
10-15-2012, 08:44 PM
you keep putting your cb's on an island...then get no edge rush against a premiere QB. This is what you get. Nothing wrong with JJ.

This is what I was talking about at work today. There was no safety help all game long.

My question is our ILB'ers so bad that we are having to play our safeties up?

thunderkyss
10-15-2012, 08:59 PM
I haven't had a chance to rewatch the game, but from what I could tell, he DIDN't have or need a ton of time in the pocket because he was getting the ball out so fast. And his receivers were making some ridiculous catches to boot. Everything went right for Green Bay, including being on the right side of some questionable calls.

There were a couple of quick throws, but most of the time, he was having to go through his progression. He escaped several sacks & chased out of the pocket several times. He extended plays & made it very difficult for our secondary to play man coverage. He's deadly on the run.

Then some of his throws, were amazingly placed where his receiver was the only one who could get it. They had to make amazing catches, & they did.

Everything was going their way last night, which is one reason we should just put this game behind us. It's rare that everything would go the way of one team. For whatever reason, it was Green Bay's turn last night. Won't happen again.

thunderkyss
10-15-2012, 09:01 PM
which by default you're giving up the slant..a staple of GB's offense.

Not necessarily. Giving up that cushion is about keeping the play in front of you. Watch the QB, watch the receiver. If it looks like a slant, drive on the ball. It could be an interception, or a highlight reel hit where the receiver can't pull the ball in because he's got a 200lb man running through him.

Texan_Bill
10-15-2012, 09:05 PM
Play JJo this weekend v. the Ravens because Uni-brow guy (aka Flacco) hits the broad-side of a barn once in a while. After that we have a bye week. Next game after that is Marion, errrrr Marilou Williams supposed "Judgement Day"... Sit JJo for that game and let him rest up his groin for the final half of the season. In effect that would be nearly three weeks of rest.

I don't care what the JJo or the Texans are saying, he is clearly still suffering from the groin. He doesn't go from one of the top two or three corners to what we've seen over the last two or three weeks without a reason.

REST HIM!!!

thunderkyss
10-15-2012, 09:05 PM
Joseph was doing his share of pushing beyond the 5 yard zone if you are being honest...I was talking about that last night with friends.

That's what I hate most about the PI call on Kj... they were letting them play for the most part. Should have called PI on a lot of plays, both ways, but they didn't.

Makes you wonder how they decide when to call it & when not to. Then on the Kj PI, the ref that was right in front of him didn't call it, but some guy on the other side of the field who saw nothing but Kj's back. He couldn't see if he touched him or not.

Mr teX
10-16-2012, 10:16 AM
Not necessarily. Giving up that cushion is about keeping the play in front of you. Watch the QB, watch the receiver. If it looks like a slant, drive on the ball. It could be an interception, or a highlight reel hit where the receiver can't pull the ball in because he's got a 200lb man running through him.

Folks around here used to get down right livid with richard smith b/c he'd always keep his cb's back with that 5+ yard cushion for the exact same reason you describe above. & Manning used to eat us alive with quick slants right in front of the cb all the way down the field. Then Smith would get desperate late in the game & put them in press man & we'd watch Faggins & god knows how many other scrubs we had playing for us then get beat over the top.

So while in theory i agree with you, Any decent qb is still going to complete those quick slants with that much cushion 7 out 10 times. If that's the percentage for qb's of schaub's caliber, how much more would you wager that elite qb's like rodgers would complete that pass? 8 out of 10? 9 out of 10?

KJ knows. Drew Brees & Lance Moore ate him alive with quick slants/whip routes in 2 seperate drives last year.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2012, 12:09 PM
He was listed as having a groin issue in weeks 3 and 4. Week 5 he disappeared from the injury list altogether and reappeared in week 6 as a knee. Despite this, I have heard people and announcers keep talking about his groin slowing him down. Who knows how really accurate any of the injury reports are. However, groin issues can easily turn into or add to knee issues through compensation.

Kubiak (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Monday-practice/9a6bc321-cae9-4b83-be81-dc0a07b1296d) yesterday:

(on if CB Johnathan Joseph has been bothered by a sore groin in recent weeks) Hes missed a little practice time. Weve given him some Wednesdays off, given him some time off. Hes had some soreness, nothing to keep him from playing. Hes played with it before. The biggest thing is were about 350 to 400 snaps into this season, so its a lot of snaps and obviously hes on the field all the time covering their best. We may have to be smart with him this week and get him to Sunday. We think hell be okay. Its something that hes been able to work through before, and hopefully hell work through it again.

And how has that "work through" worked out for him and the team in the past 2 games? Again, then. How has he escaped being listed "groin" in the past 2 weeks on the official Injury Report, coach Kubelichick?:chef:

Mr teX
10-16-2012, 12:15 PM
Kubiak (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Monday-practice/9a6bc321-cae9-4b83-be81-dc0a07b1296d) yesterday:



And how has that "work through" worked out for him and the team in the past 2 games? Again, then. How has he escaped being listed "groin" in the past 2 weeks on the official Injury Report, coach Kubelichick?:chef:

ehh, that goes both ways though. These guys don't want to miss any games and the coaches sure as hell don't want them to miss any either. So him not being listed might be J Jo saying..."im alright coach, nothing major"..& who is coach kubes to argue with the guy?

b0ng
10-16-2012, 12:17 PM
This is what I was talking about at work today. There was no safety help all game long.

My question is our ILB'ers so bad that we are having to play our safeties up?

Wade was in Dime probably >50% of the game at minimum. Dobbins probably saw the least amount of snaps, followed by the tandem of Cody/Mitchell (if we count that position and not the players themselves). They had Quin lining up in the ILB spot a bunch in these particular Dime packages.

From what I saw at the game, we just couldn't get in Rodgers's face enough to keep him from taking advantage of singled up CB's. Reed, Barwin, and Smith were all basically duds in terms of pass rushing, which put us in a hole defensively. Watt was pretty good, even getting doubled and tripled, but you have to have at least one of those guys beating their block on a good amount of the plays if they are using long developing passing routes.

In our wins, most of the time, Reed or Smith would be the guys who would at least get close if Watt wasn't getting home, but in this game the normally subpar Packers O-line did pretty well protecting Rodgers. They did have some timely running plays, but overall their line basically played spectacularly and that made it very hard for the back to keep up with those Packer receivers, even if they were missing Jennings.

Mr teX
10-16-2012, 12:36 PM
Yeah, vinny said it in another thread i believe but Wade got outcoached. Once you saw how they were attacking you, (running right at Quinn), you should've took your chances with leaving Dobbins and James in..That way Quinn and Manning could stay back over the top.

You take the chance of Finley killing you, but at least you can take the run away completely & keep safety help over the top. You can also blitz a bit more effectively.

I think wade realized this, I saw a few times James/Dobbins came on blitzes straight up the middle & flushed Rodgers, but by then it was too late.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2012, 12:57 PM
ehh, that goes both ways though. These guys don't want to miss any games and the coaches sure as hell don't want them to miss any either. So him not being listed might be J Jo saying..."im alright coach, nothing major"..& who is coach kubes to argue with the guy?

No argument there. Then I would strongly suggest that McNair consider saving some big bucks and just eliminate the team medical staff.:bubbles:

disaacks3
10-16-2012, 01:03 PM
Per Kubiak's presser; J-Jo day-to-day with a sore groin. I guess that explians why he wasn't even on the field for the TD pass when Ball got torched. (I never noticed it at the game, but rewound several times on replay to confirm).

thunderkyss
10-16-2012, 01:06 PM
Folks around here used to get down right livid with richard smith b/c he'd always keep his cb's back with that 5+ yard cushion for the exact same reason you describe above.

Again, just because they play off the receiver isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a technique that works well, even against the slant. The problem in the past, is that our corners weren't good enough to stop the slant working with as much cushion as was given. Then they weren't any good, playing press.

So while in theory i agree with you, Any decent qb is still going to complete those quick slants with that much cushion 7 out 10 times. If that's the percentage for qb's of schaub's caliber, how much more would you wager that elite qb's like rodgers would complete that pass? 8 out of 10? 9 out of 10?

It's not about the QB. IT's more about the reciever knowing he's going to get blown up.

KJ knows. Drew Brees & Lance Moore ate him alive with quick slants/whip routes in 2 seperate drives last year.

eh.... he used that same technique at different points during that game & held Brees in check for most of them. For whatever reason, he played those two drives poorly. It wasn't that he was off the receiver, but he wouldn't attack the ball.

Jjo has been using that a lot lately, I assume because of his groin. He can't run like he used to, so he's trying to get an edge.... cheat a little on the deep routes. If he were 100%, it would have been a totally different game & he'd have played it totally different.

hookinreds
10-16-2012, 02:14 PM
I think opposing OCs have figured out that our corners have done a good job of jumping on a WRs initial move, and are now toasting us on double move after double move. JJo is just flat out hurting with that groin, and as others have said (as well as I) he never got better after the initial problem weeks ago. His hips are slow, and has no chance once there is any change of direction. You actually have QBs picking on JJo instead of KJ, and our safeties cant bail them out on every play. With Lewis coming in, he is going to just run it down our throat and pull our safety in for run support, so I expect to see the Ravens torch us deep again this week.

Mr teX
10-16-2012, 02:14 PM
Again, just because they play off the receiver isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a technique that works well, even against the slant. The problem in the past, is that our corners weren't good enough to stop the slant working with as much cushion as was given. Then they weren't any good, playing press.

It's not about the QB. IT's more about the reciever knowing he's going to get blown up.


eh.... he used that same technique at different points during that game & held Brees in check for most of them. For whatever reason, he played those two drives poorly. It wasn't that he was off the receiver, but he wouldn't attack the ball.

Jjo has been using that a lot lately, I assume because of his groin. He can't run like he used to, so he's trying to get an edge.... cheat a little on the deep routes. If he were 100%, it would have been a totally different game & he'd have played it totally different.

unless that cb is say brandon browner of the seahawks or the WR is a flat out *&%$#, WR's aren't fearing getting hit or blown up anymore; the league has made sure of that with its definitions of defensless reciever and all that nonsense.

As far as KJ, there's a reason he wouldn't attack it...fear of getting beat deep on double moves & if the timing is good enough with the qb & the WR, the cb has no time to react.

I'm not saying that it doesn't work, what i'm saying is that it's not likely to be as effective a strategy with an upper echelon qb/wr combo that have tons of chemistry together like Rodgers/Nelson/Jones/Jennings. Especially with them still gashing us with the run like they were doing.

Besides, both of our cb's had already been beat deep, Rodgers just missed the 1 on KJ's side on the 1st series. Once that happens, you know it's gonna linger around in their heads for a while & they'd be hesistant about attack slants.

thunderkyss
10-16-2012, 09:16 PM
unless that cb is say brandon browner of the seahawks or the WR is a flat out *&%$#, WR's aren't fearing getting hit or blown up anymore; the league has made sure of that with its definitions of defensless reciever and all that nonsense.


You can still blow a receiver up. Kj was lauded for blowing up a receiver earlier this year, so did Jjo... happens all the time. You can not hit the reciever in the head. You can not launch yourself into the receiver, you can not use the crown of your helmet. Keep both feet on the ground, aim at center mass, blow the mutha up!!!!


As far as KJ, there's a reason he wouldn't attack it...fear of getting beat deep on double moves & if the timing is good enough with the qb & the WR, the cb has no time to react.

I'm not saying that it doesn't work, what i'm saying is that it's not likely to be as effective a strategy with an upper echelon qb/wr combo that have tons of chemistry together like Rodgers/Nelson/Jones/Jennings. Especially with them still gashing us with the run like they were doing.

Besides, both of our cb's had already been beat deep, Rodgers just missed the 1 on KJ's side on the 1st series. Once that happens, you know it's gonna linger around in their heads for a while & they'd be hesistant about attack slants.

If you're going to play your safeties up, you're better off playing off the receiver. If you've got them 3rd & long, you're better off playing a 3 deep or quarters, where your corners play off the line.

Playing off the line is not bad technique. Giving the receiver a cushion is not bad technique, you just can't make that blanket statement regardless who the QB is.

You've got to mix it up. Regardless if it's Revis playing against Rodgers, there will be times when he'll play off the receiver. That's just football.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2012, 10:48 PM
What remains a real head scratcher to me is if you knew that JJo (and they did know this was the case) was "compromised" going into the last 2 games, especially this last game, why did we shy away from going into a layered cover scheme whether cover 2 or cover 3........especially during the second half?

thunderkyss
10-16-2012, 11:51 PM
What remains a real head scratcher to me is if you knew that JJo (and they did know this was the case) was "compromised" going into the last 2 games, especially this last game, why did we shy away from going into a layered cover scheme whether cover 2 or cover 3........especially during the second half?

Looked like they tried some rotation stuff on the back end, faking a blitz, then trying to get back... we just weren't good enough. Maybe in a few weeks, but Sunday night, they just didn't get back in time, or make their rotation in time.

Then there were times when Rodgers put the ball away from the help.