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View Full Version : Elias Sports Bureau removes sack from JJ


gtexan02
10-10-2012, 07:43 PM
I don't get it, why didn't he get credit for the sack?

Also, a play from Week 4 takes away a sack from Houston Texans defensive end J.J. Watt against the Miami Dolphins. Clay Matthews of the Green Bay Packers now leads the league in sacks with with eight, 1/2 more than Watt.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8487929/ben-roethlisberger-awarded-touchdown-pass-stats-change

We didn't even play the Dolphins in week 4...

Stemp
10-10-2012, 07:52 PM
I don't get it, why didn't he get credit for the sack?


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8487929/ben-roethlisberger-awarded-touchdown-pass-stats-change

We didn't even play the Dolphins in week 4...

Misprint. It's from week 1.

They said it was a called running play for the QB, thus not a sack.

It's horse****.

TejasTom
10-10-2012, 07:55 PM
From week 1, they are right on top of things.

EllisUnit
10-10-2012, 07:56 PM
haha really they can go back and change something like that after it has alreayd happened, thats B.S. I say review all the games over the last 100 years and take away bad calls or TDs that werent TDs and see how many teams lose the lombardi trophy.

Thats the dumbest **** i have ever heard.

Texan_Bill
10-10-2012, 08:06 PM
http://static2.dmcdn.net/static/video/208/564/8465802:jpeg_preview_medium.jpg?20110912080634

Meh... They claim that one of JJ's sacks was really a designed run play for Tannehill.

Good on them. Give JJ a little more inspiration for taking away our NFL's sack leader this week against Aaron Rodgers and the guy they gave the lead to, over some BS....


Watt 3:16 Says I just sacked your ass!!!!

I expect two Dikembe's and two salutes.

gwallaia
10-10-2012, 08:06 PM
That could affect Fantasy Football records around the globe!

Texan_Bill
10-10-2012, 08:07 PM
That could affect Fantasy Football records around the globe!

:facepalm: Greg!

b0ng
10-10-2012, 08:14 PM
That could affect Fantasy Football records around the globe!

Only if you are the kind of degenerate who plays IDP.

CloakNNNdagger
10-10-2012, 08:23 PM
Misprint. It's from week 1.

They said it was a called running play for the QB, thus not a sack.

It's horse****.

haha really they can go back and change something like that after it has alreayd happened, thats B.S. I say review all the games over the last 100 years and take away bad calls or TDs that werent TDs and see how many teams lose the lombardi trophy.

Thats the dumbest **** i have ever heard.

Apparently that information (that it was actually a running play) was formally submitted by the Dolphins to the League office.



TEXANS FAN'S MESSAGE TO LEAGUE OFFICE:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRyllog3uuv6zYEL-oFlkDrYvGYfqA4QdPlFq8hyJulT5kYjDf

gwallaia
10-10-2012, 08:23 PM
Only if you are the kind of degenerate who plays IDP.

Watt has been getting me 10-13 points a week.

GP
10-10-2012, 08:44 PM
That's dumb.

If the QB is behind the LOS, it should be a sack 100% of the time.

They cannot just arbitrarily decide if the QB is going to throw or pass. Geez...

False Start
10-10-2012, 08:51 PM
http://static2.dmcdn.net/static/video/208/564/8465802:jpeg_preview_medium.jpg?20110912080634

Meh... They claim that one of JJ's sacks was really a designed run play for Tannehill.

Good on them. Give JJ a little more inspiration for taking away our NFL's sack leader this week against Aaron Rodgers and the guy they gave the lead to, over some BS....


Watt 3:16 Says I just sacked your ass!!!!

I expect two Dikembe's and two salutes.

:stonecold:

What crock of sh!+. I have never heard of anything like this happening. JJ will just get 4 this upcoming game just to show them up. :wild:

Corrosion
10-10-2012, 09:36 PM
Apparently that information (that it was actually a running play) was formally submitted by the Dolphins to the League office.



TEXANS FAN'S MESSAGE TO LEAGUE OFFICE:

So Watt , Shut up and give me my :trophy:

:corrosion:

thunderkyss
10-10-2012, 09:37 PM
So WATT!!!!

b0ng
10-10-2012, 10:00 PM
Watt has been getting me 10-13 points a week.

I know, and to think he's been consistent with it. Are there any other defensive guys in IDP that have been doing as good as Watt points wise?

dream_team
10-11-2012, 12:30 AM
Can you tell these guys to re-watch the Jets game? The refs missed another sack by Watt. Watt wrapped up Sanchez and was bringing him down. As Sanchez was falling back, he just heaves the ball forward at no one. That should have been a sack, or at least intentional grounding. But of course, refs call it an incomplete pass.

NastyNate
10-11-2012, 02:09 AM
Can you tell these guys to re-watch the Jets game? The refs missed another sack by Watt. Watt wrapped up Sanchez and was bringing him down. As Sanchez was falling back, he just heaves the ball forward at no one. That should have been a sack, or at least intentional grounding. But of course, refs call it an incomplete pass.

At a minimum that was intentional grounding. At best it's stop of forward progress and a sack.

Lambert
10-11-2012, 02:33 AM
If there is a question, to determine if a tackle is a sack or a TFL, they look at the O line blocking to see if the blocking is pass blocking or run blocking.

Incidentally, Cushing was given a FF when it should have been Brooks Reed who striped the ball from Bell in the Jags game. They haven't caught that one yet.

ObsiWan
10-11-2012, 04:31 AM
That's dumb.

If the QB is behind the LOS, it should be a sack 100% of the time.

They cannot just arbitrarily decide if the QB is going to throw or pass. Geez...

"Oh crap... c'mon guys!! Why did you have to go and piss him off THIS week??" Why couldn't this have waited until he played the Bears or the damned Lions!?? Why THIS week?!?

Damn.

Signed, Aaron Rodgers

BullNation4Life
10-11-2012, 07:03 AM
"Oh crap... c'mon guys!! Why did you have to go and piss him off THIS week??" Why couldn't this have waited until he played the Bears or the damned Lions!?? Why THIS week?!?

Damn.

Signed, Aaron Rodgers

Exactly! They just pissed off the Bull and Rodgers is about to get the horns...

Thanks Elias!

TejasTom
10-11-2012, 07:19 AM
Elias Sports Bureau reports they have given Tim Tebow 15 TDs.

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 07:29 AM
haha really they can go back and change something like that after it has alreayd happened, thats B.S. I say review all the games over the last 100 years and take away bad calls or TDs that werent TDs and see how many teams lose the lombardi trophy.

Thats the dumbest **** i have ever heard.



Sure they can go back after the fact, it's not like they could change it before hand

TimeKiller
10-11-2012, 07:42 AM
I guess nobody has ever really sacked Tebow then.

You know...


....'cause he's not really a quarterback?!

Hervoyel
10-11-2012, 08:43 AM
Watt needs to locate the offices of this so-called "Sports Bureau" and sack a few folks there. Then maybe they'll change their minds.

Señor Stan
10-11-2012, 09:17 AM
I was kinda ticked at this until I watched the video...

Courtesy of TexanstalkTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4FCITzQ4qQ&feature=youtu.be)

If you haven't seen the TexansTalkTube thread Check it out! (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94722)

at the 2:56 point in the video (8:07 on the game clock) Tannehill trips on his way to hand off the ball and JJ falls on him for the sack.

That being said, I've never heard of going back and altering stats....doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I've just never seen it.

btw... WTF do the Dolphins care about that anyway?

gwallaia
10-11-2012, 09:21 AM
Looks like the Dolphin's center should be credited with the sack.
Video: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000079268/article/jj-watt-loses-nfls-sack-lead-on-statistical-correction?module=HP11_headline_stack

hobie
10-11-2012, 09:26 AM
Does it really matter?? I mean really, does it.. it is a sack, ok, good for his stats, but so what, if not a sack, then what, a TFL... I am ok with that. Either way is fine with me.. Did they not win the game anyway....

Dutchrudder
10-11-2012, 09:28 AM
I was kinda ticked at this until I watched the video...

Courtesy of TexanstalkTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4FCITzQ4qQ&feature=youtu.be)

If you haven't seen the TexansTalkTube thread Check it out! (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94722)

at the 2:56 point in the video (8:07 on the game clock) Tannehill trips on his way to hand off the ball and JJ falls on him for the sack.

That being said, I've never heard of going back and altering stats....doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I've just never seen it.

btw... WTF do the Dolphins care about that anyway?

You can actually link directly to the time on the video that you want. Click the "Share" button below the video, then click options and check "start at" box. Then set the time to whatever you want, and copy the link above it.
http://youtu.be/t4FCITzQ4qQ?t=2m51s

I can't really argue against removing this sack though. It looks like Tannehill was going to hand it off to Bush. It's not that big of a deal though, we still won the game, and that's what counts.

dream_team
10-11-2012, 09:36 AM
Does it really matter?? I mean really, does it.. it is a sack, ok, good for his stats, but so what, if not a sack, then what, a TFL... I am ok with that. Either way is fine with me.. Did they not win the game anyway....

We all know it doesn't really matter. People are mainly commenting how dumb it is to go back all the way to a week 1 play and change stats. Especially on that play, because I guess someone from the Dolphins told them it was going to be a run play. Yes, it looks like a run play, but how do we know it wasn't going to be a play action fake? Also, does that mean if a run play is called, and somehow the defender tackles the QB before he hands off the ball, it's not a sack?

We know the stats don't really matter, but just multiple levels of dumb here.

gwallaia
10-11-2012, 09:41 AM
I liked one of the comments left on the link I posted above. "Why can't they go back and change the Packer-Seahawk score?"

False Start
10-11-2012, 10:48 AM
Watt needs to locate the offices of this so-called "Sports Bureau" and sack a few folks there. Then maybe they'll change their minds.

He needs to go Terry Tate Office Linebacker (http://youtu.be/RzToNo7A-94) on their ass. :wild:

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 10:54 AM
We all know it doesn't really matter. People are mainly commenting how dumb it is to go back all the way to a week 1 play and change stats. Especially on that play, because I guess someone from the Dolphins told them it was going to be a run play. Yes, it looks like a run play, but how do we know it wasn't going to be a play action fake? Also, does that mean if a run play is called, and somehow the defender tackles the QB before he hands off the ball, it's not a sack?

We know the stats don't really matter, but just multiple levels of dumb here.



The dumb part is the move by the Dolphins not Elias. It didnt take Elias 4 weeks to go back to week one Im sure they didnt go back until they received the Dolphins request

utahmark
10-11-2012, 11:02 AM
You can actually link directly to the time on the video that you want. Click the "Share" button below the video, then click options and check "start at" box. Then set the time to whatever you want, and copy the link above it.
http://youtu.be/t4FCITzQ4qQ?t=2m51s

I can't really argue against removing this sack though. It looks like Tannehill was going to hand it off to Bush. It's not that big of a deal though, we still won the game, and that's what counts.

bootleg?

ItsMyFault
10-11-2012, 11:34 AM
lol If he's 1 sack off from breaking the record, that'll suck.

Double Barrel
10-11-2012, 11:44 AM
I liked one of the comments left on the link I posted above. "Why can't they go back and change the Packer-Seahawk score?"

QFT!!! If the NFL wants to get revisionist, then they should start with that bogus call that cost the Packers a game.

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 11:47 AM
QFT!!! If the NFL wants to get revisionist, then they should start with that bogus call that cost the Packers a game.



Elias sports and the NFL are two different things and Im sure Elias isnt overturning NFL decisions

Double Barrel
10-11-2012, 11:50 AM
Elias sports and the NFL are two different things and Im sure Elias isnt overturning NFL decisions

"The Elias Sports Bureau, official statistician of the NFL..." (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8487929/ben-roethlisberger-awarded-touchdown-pass-stats-change)

Does the official records of the NFL change with their decisions or not?

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 11:52 AM
"The Elias Sports Bureau, official statistician of the NFL..." (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8487929/ben-roethlisberger-awarded-touchdown-pass-stats-change)

Does the official records of the NFL change with their decisions or not?



The record changes but its not a decision the NFL makes and in no way could be connected to changing the f-up that occured in the packers game

Double Barrel
10-11-2012, 12:00 PM
The record changes but its not a decision the NFL makes and in no way could be connected to changing the f-up that occured in the packers game

My point is that if the NFL can go back and change records, then they should rectify the most glaring mistake of the season so far.

The NFL's "decision" was purely a CYA public relations debacle to avoid the simple fact that they hired incompetent officials.

Understand my point is rhetorical in nature. I have absolutely no expectations for the NFL to actually do the right thing. I know better than to expect anything of the sort from this league.

76Texan
10-11-2012, 12:15 PM
I liked one of the comments left on the link I posted above. "Why can't they go back and change the Packer-Seahawk score?"

LOL, good one! :choke:

ObsiWan
10-11-2012, 12:22 PM
Looks like the Dolphin's center should be credited with the sack.
Video: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000079268/article/jj-watt-loses-nfls-sack-lead-on-statistical-correction?module=HP11_headline_stack

Yeah... after looking at this vid, the QB was going back to hand the ball off so J.J. should get a "tackle-for-loss" added to his stat sheet in place of that incorrect sack..

hookinreds
10-11-2012, 12:37 PM
Idiots...it's still a sack. What if it was play action...how about every interception that is throw, do they go back and say....I meant to run the ball, or he meant to throw a TD? Since when did intent get in the way of facts? So now if the QB is in a bootleg and is tackled from behind before he sets up to throw, do they go back to the team and ask it was a designed run?

This isn't about JJ's stat sheet. This is total revisionistic BS.

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 01:02 PM
Idiots...it's still a sack. What if it was play action...how about every interception that is throw, do they go back and say....I meant to run the ball, or he meant to throw a TD? Since when did intent get in the way of facts? So now if the QB is in a bootleg and is tackled from behind before he sets up to throw, do they go back to the team and ask it was a designed run?

This isn't about JJ's stat sheet. This is total revisionistic BS.



this isnt about an interception vs non. It should be a tackle for a loss vs a sack

hookinreds
10-11-2012, 01:07 PM
this isnt about an interception vs non. It should be a tackle for a loss vs a sack

I was providing hypothetical "what ifs" as examples. This particular isntance isn't about interceptions or not, that was sarcasm, but the issue remains is this ruling was changed on "intent". Facts are the QB was tackled behind the line of scrimmage.

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 01:11 PM
I was providing hypothetical "what ifs" as examples. This particular isntance isn't about interceptions or not, that was sarcasm, but the issue remains is this ruling was changed on "intent". Facts are the QB was tackled behind the line of scrimmage.



And the fact is if the QB was acting as rusher its should be a tackle for a loss, if not its a sack

hookinreds
10-11-2012, 01:18 PM
And the fact is if the QB was acting as rusher its should be a tackle for a loss, if not its a sack

At what point in this video does the QB act as a rusher? I see him extend his arm out with the ball after taking the snap, was his intent to hand off, or play action pass? Dolphins say it was a called running play...weather it was or not, it makes their quarterback look better by having one less sack. What the video shows is a sack. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000079268/article/jj-watt-loses-nfls-sack-lead-on-statistical-correction

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 01:26 PM
At what point in this video does the QB act as a rusher? I see him extend his arm out with the ball after taking the snap, was his intent to hand off, or play action pass? Dolphins say it was a called running play...weather it was or not, it makes their quarterback look better by having one less sack. What the video shows is a sack. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000079268/article/jj-watt-loses-nfls-sack-lead-on-statistical-correction




I actually found the nfl definition


Definition of Sack
The league defines a sack as tackling the quarterback behind the line of scrimmage while he is attempting to pass. All three elements must be present. It has to be the quarterback, not another player taking a handoff or pitch and throwing an option pass. It has to be behind the line of scrimmage; a quarterback who is chased across the line is credited with run yardage. And the quarterback must be trying to pass; designed run plays that are stopped behind the line of scrimmage are not considered sacks.



Read more: Sack Rules of the NFL | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6736379_sack-rules-nfl.html#ixzz2914CXMZE

Errant Hothy
10-11-2012, 01:33 PM
If Favre laying down for Strahan was a sack, than the play in question should also be a sack.

noxiousdog
10-11-2012, 01:44 PM
Tackles for loss are more coming into vogue anyway. They should just use that and hurries as the "it" stats for front 7.

infantrycak
10-11-2012, 01:58 PM
I was kinda ticked at this until I watched the video...

Courtesy of TexanstalkTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4FCITzQ4qQ&feature=youtu.be)

If you haven't seen the TexansTalkTube thread Check it out! (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94722)

at the 2:56 point in the video (8:07 on the game clock) Tannehill trips on his way to hand off the ball and JJ falls on him for the sack.

Yeah... after looking at this vid, the QB was going back to hand the ball off so J.J. should get a "tackle-for-loss" added to his stat sheet in place of that incorrect sack..

I don't see how anyone can look at that and say he was about to hand off. He is tripped by the center on his very first step back. Especially don't understand this from Texans fans - our offense is predicated on making our passing plays look like running plays far longer than that.

And the fact is if the QB was acting as rusher its should be a tackle for a loss, if not its a sack

Why bring that up? - he clearly was not acting as a rusher.

Playoffs
10-11-2012, 02:03 PM
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
Wade Phillips on Elias taking away sack from Watt: "Why didn't they take away Strahan's when he set record?"

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 02:04 PM
Why bring that up? - he clearly was not acting as a rusher.



I was incorrect about the definition and posted it right after that. Based on the definition of a sack I can see how they overturned the stat

infantrycak
10-11-2012, 02:08 PM
I was incorrect about the definition and posted it right after that. Based on the definition of a sack I can see how they overturned the stat

I don't. There is nothing in the video to prove it was a running play and every team in the league runs play action plays. You simply cannot tell one step into a play what it is going to be other than a QB sneak.

dream_team
10-11-2012, 02:15 PM
I was incorrect about the definition and posted it right after that. Based on the definition of a sack I can see how they overturned the stat

Thanks for posting the definition. So the stupid part of the definition is that it is based on "intent". Dolphins could have easily called a playaction pass, but I guess we'll never know. We should take some sacks on Scahub back by claiming it was a draw play.

gtexan02
10-11-2012, 02:20 PM
I don't. There is nothing in the video to prove it was a running play and every team in the league runs play action plays. You simply cannot tell one step into a play what it is going to be other than a QB sneak.

This is a great point.

Possibilities:

1. The Dolphins were running a playaction pass and therefore JJ should get credit for the sack.

2. The quarterback had called a pass play but upon tripping on the center, tried an emergency handoff. You see this all the time on busted plays. In this case JJ should get credit for the sack.

3. The quarterback had called a running play and it was a busted play. In this case it should be a tackle for a loss.

How is it possible to know which of the 3 choices it was? And why should we take the Dolphins word for it when they have a vested interest in trying to show limited sack numbers for player performance?

CloakNNNdagger
10-11-2012, 02:32 PM
I don't. There is nothing in the video to prove it was a running play and every team in the league runs play action plays. You simply cannot tell one step into a play what it is going to be other than a QB sneak.

But don't you understand, the Dolphins thought about it for 4 weeks and just had to correct a great injustice done to their QB. They were forced to clarify that the play was a run by design........and everyone knows that a fish is too stupid to lie.:hankpalm:

Señor Stan
10-11-2012, 02:44 PM
I don't see how anyone can look at that and say he was about to hand off. He is tripped by the center on his very first step back. Especially don't understand this from Texans fans - our offense is predicated on making our passing plays look like running plays far longer than that.

.

If you look at the O-line they are run blocking and push well beyond the LOS.

In this clip (http://youtu.be/8UG4CsNb_to?t=4m41s) you can see one of their designed bootlegs and the linemen never of beyond the LOS.

I think it was a run play, but can't fathom why they would want to go back and adjust the sack stat.

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 02:45 PM
I don't. There is nothing in the video to prove it was a running play and every team in the league runs play action plays. You simply cannot tell one step into a play what it is going to be other than a QB sneak.

There is nothing to prove it was a play action play either. Miami wrote in and got it changed and Id say based of the definition there was no attempted pass nor was he even attempting to pass so the stat gets changed

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 02:46 PM
This is a great point.

Possibilities:

1. The Dolphins were running a playaction pass and therefore JJ should get credit for the sack.

2. The quarterback had called a pass play but upon tripping on the center, tried an emergency handoff. You see this all the time on busted plays. In this case JJ should get credit for the sack.

3. The quarterback had called a running play and it was a busted play. In this case it should be a tackle for a loss.

How is it possible to know which of the 3 choices it was? And why should we take the Dolphins word for it when they have a vested interest in trying to show limited sack numbers for player performance?


I think Miami is silly for getting it changed and its almost as silly to get mad about the change.

Perki-Perk
10-11-2012, 02:55 PM
I don't. There is nothing in the video to prove it was a running play and every team in the league runs play action plays. You simply cannot tell one step into a play what it is going to be other than a QB sneak.

This is the part I think people are getting confused on, "while he is attempting to pass". If the QB is in a handoff motion until passing the running back and going into passing stance, is he not in something that appears to be a running play. Doesn't matter until he drops back. Same thing with Shaub, if he runs a bootleg to foster, then he is not "attempting to pass" until he turns his eyes back around toward the field to find a receiver. You cannot do no look passes while looking in completely the opposite direction, at least not with much success. They are a very high degree of difficulty. Hope this helps. I would rather credit be done properly. Last thing we need are astericks next to JJ Watt as the NFL sack leader when there are stats in question.

infantrycak
10-11-2012, 03:20 PM
If you look at the O-line they are run blocking and push well beyond the LOS.

The whole point of a play action is to make it look like a run play. That doesn't work if the blocking doesn't look like run blocking.

This is the part I think people are getting confused on, "while he is attempting to pass". If the QB is in a handoff motion until passing the running back and going into passing stance, is he not in something that appears to be a running play. Doesn't matter until he drops back. Same thing with Shaub, if he runs a bootleg to foster, then he is not "attempting to pass" until he turns his eyes back around toward the field to find a receiver. You cannot do no look passes while looking in completely the opposite direction, at least not with much success. They are a very high degree of difficulty. Hope this helps. I would rather credit be done properly. Last thing we need are astericks next to JJ Watt as the NFL sack leader when there are stats in question.

Hope it helps? Not at all and it doesn't reflect NFL reality. Schaub has been hit with sacks for exactly what happened here - getting stepped on or tangled with the center. Botched snaps and exchanges where the ball is never fumbled but result in the QB getting tackled behind the LOS are routinely counted as sacks. QB's who tuck the ball and take off to run but don't get back to the line of scrimmage are counted as sacks. QB's get tackled on delayed draws and it goes down as a sack. Running out of bounds behind the LOS is considered a sack. About the only time a QB is tackled behind the LOS and it isn't considered a sack is where he instantly tucks the ball and starts to run.

Elias shouldn't be in the business of listening to teams. They reviewed the film and determined it was a sack as did all the commentators watching the game. Locker has to go up and gets turned around securing a shotgun snap and Quin plasters him as soon as his feet hit the ground it would go down as a sack. The Tacks shouldn't be able to write in and say "no really he hadn't actively started to try to pass" or "but he was going to hand the ball off from the shotgun."

Señor Stan
10-11-2012, 04:19 PM
The whole point of a play action is to make it look like a run play. That doesn't work if the blocking doesn't look like run blocking.



They are pushing well beyond the LOS. If it was a pass play they would have been flagged for inelligible men downfield.

Do I think it was a run...Yes

Do I think it is complete horse manure that they go back 4 weeks to review it...Yes

Do I think the Dolphins are a bunch whiney bishes...Yes

infantrycak
10-11-2012, 04:26 PM
They are pushing well beyond the LOS. If it was a pass play they would have been flagged for inelligible men downfield.

If an offensive player is engaged with a defensive player there is no penalty for ineligible man downfield for being past the line of scrimmage.

ObsiWan
10-11-2012, 04:44 PM
I don't see how anyone can look at that and say he was about to hand off. He is tripped by the center on his very first step back. Especially don't understand this from Texans fans - our offense is predicated on making our passing plays look like running plays far longer than that.

Because no QB I've ever seen takes the snap from center, turns/pivots, and then extends the ball unless to hand off or to perform a play action fake. If it's a pure drop back, the QB has both hands on the ball immediately after the snap and does a straight back peddle or or the classic crossover "dance step".

If that had been Schaub executing one of his patented fakes before his naked bootleg, then I wouldn't have been so quick to call run play. But that rookie QB ain't Schaub.

And if you look at Reggie Bush, his hands were opened up ready for the handoff. Again, if that was us, I wouldn't be so convinced it was about to be a run. But then again (and call me a :homer: if you wish), nobody ...but NOOO-body, does that run fake as well as WE do. Least of all a rookie.

Again, J.J.'s sack just turned into a tackle for loss; big whoop.


...ain't it simply grand to have these nits to argue about instead of...
- when are we going to draft a LT?
- why won't they replace Petey Faggins?
- when will Mario wake the Eff up and play like we're paying him too?
- why won't they draft a decent RB?
- etc., etc., etc....

2012Champs
10-11-2012, 04:49 PM
If it was a schaub play action bootleg called and he got crushed before he could pull back the "fake" it wouldn't be a sack either

infantrycak
10-11-2012, 05:43 PM
Because no QB I've ever seen takes the snap from center, turns/pivots, and then extends the ball unless to hand off or to perform a play action fake.

Where have I said anything about a pure drop back?

Yes Schaub is at the top of the league but here is Tannehill on play action - Link (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012092306/2012/REG3/jets@dolphins#menu=highlights&tab=recap) On the first step of that you wouldn't know it isn't a run.

And yes it is nice to talk about nits.

ObsiWan
10-11-2012, 05:52 PM
Where have I said anything about a pure drop back?

Yes Schaub is at the top of the league but here is Tannehill on play action - Link (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012092306/2012/REG3/jets@dolphins#menu=highlights&tab=recap) On the first step of that you wouldn't know it isn't a run.

And yes it is nice to talk about nits.

I didn't say you said it was a pure drop back; I was answering why I thought it was a running play. my point was that it simply didn't look like he had any intention to drop back to pass to me.

But I get the, "it could have been play-action" viewpoint. I just don't think it was. You're absolutely right, our line play makes either run or play-action look exactly the same. I'm not convinced they're that good at it.

CloakNNNdagger
10-12-2012, 08:51 AM
Defensive Coordinator Wade Phillips

(on DE J.J. Watt losing a sack from the Miami game) “Everybody saw where Elias took the sack away from, they went back and took it away from J.J. (Watt). I’m just wondering why they didn’t go back and take Michael Strahan’s sack away from him when he broke the record. If they’re going to go back and take those things away, it just seems naturally that it wasn’t a pass play, but he gets another tackle for loss. That probably makes him lead the league in that, too.”

(on if he was surprised that Elias took a sack away from DE J.J. Watt now) “That’s what I’m saying. They haven’t done it in the past. When guys set the all-time record, they didn’t’ do it on that play so I’m surprised they did it. But that’s okay.”

(on how that process works) “Normally, the team turns it in after the game and say, ‘Hey, that wasn’t a sack.’ The team you played. That’s what we normally do.”

(on changing credit for a sack or tackle for loss) “It’s after the game. It’s usually that team, but I don’t know what happened. It wasn’t a sack. At the time, I said, ‘Well, they’re not going to give him a sack because it was a running play. Quarterback fell down. He tackled the quarterback for loss.”link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Thursday-practice/50e4fb33-9616-4b6d-a05c-1fb259543f92)

2012Champs
10-12-2012, 09:03 AM
link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Thursday-practice/50e4fb33-9616-4b6d-a05c-1fb259543f92)



seems Wade knows what a sack is as defined by the NFL

GP
10-12-2012, 09:53 AM
He was stepping up into the pocket, pure and simple.

I guess that means he was "running," but the only thing he was running from was a PASS BLITZ that was on him very quickly, and JJ slipped into a crease and tripped him as he stepped up into the pocket to get some space.

Wade is right: How can Favre fall down and GIVE Strahan the record-setting sack, yet in the flow of a real play they can rule Sanchez was never going to pass the ball?

I think this was the Jets, likely Rex Ryan, who engineered this whole ordeal. I can see him being so petty that he gets the sack taken away, like a petulant child who is angry at mommy and daddy over their parenting. He couldn't win the war, so he won the battle of the JJ Watt League Leading Sack. My two cents.

2012Champs
10-12-2012, 10:12 AM
He was stepping up into the pocket, pure and simple.

I guess that means he was "running," but the only thing he was running from was a PASS BLITZ that was on him very quickly, and JJ slipped into a crease and tripped him as he stepped up into the pocket to get some space.

Wade is right: How can Favre fall down and GIVE Strahan the record-setting sack, yet in the flow of a real play they can rule Sanchez was never going to pass the ball?

I think this was the Jets, likely Rex Ryan, who engineered this whole ordeal. I can see him being so petty that he gets the sack taken away, like a petulant child who is angry at mommy and daddy over their parenting. He couldn't win the war, so he won the battle of the JJ Watt League Leading Sack. My two cents.




I think you are lost this has nothing to do with Rex, Sanchez or the jets

Texn4life
10-12-2012, 10:23 AM
Yet Michael Strahan's record breaking gift sack of Brett Favre remains unchanged.

The world is against us!!!!!!!

I actually referenced the Strahan sack in the other JJ thread. Its just one sack so its not a huge deal, but its still very odd. If these are the kind of things the Dolphins will be concerned with after games then I don't think predict any kind of long term success for these guys.

Rey
10-12-2012, 11:31 AM
Tackle for loss and sacks are the same thing in my book.

You tackle a guy and the result is a loss of yardage.

dream_team
10-12-2012, 01:19 PM
Tackle for loss and sacks are the same thing in my book.

You tackle a guy and the result is a loss of yardage.

I'm with you on that. NFL should glorify TFLs more than sacks!

Goatcheese
10-13-2012, 05:30 PM
All I have to say to the Elias Sports Bureau is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIMrFpnfvyI