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View Full Version : Who is the real Gary Kubiak??


BlackFizz
10-09-2012, 02:34 PM
As a die hard Texans fan, i'm starting to get a bit confused. For years all i heard from Texan fans is that Kubes is inept. Most fans and local media called for his job after the 2010 season. I heard that he coaches not to lose. I heard that he is in over his head in big games, he cant call plays in the red zone, he has never utilized AJ in the red zone properly (lack of fade routes inside the 15 or ten against one on ones) ect.

This year i'm hearing that now he is the best play caller in the league. An offensive guru, the most creative play caller in all of football. He has all his weapons at his disposal now, so now the league will finally see what true offensive genius looks like.

I admit the 3rd down runs and draws do concern me. The first drive of the game was a thing of beauty. But we only kicked 3 field goals for the most part of three quarters.

So is he the creative offensive genius we see from time to time, or the Kubes who most wanted run out of town just just a season and a half ago??

Did Wade Phillips truly save and inept Kubiak's job?

Or is Kubiak an offensive genius, who just needed little help on defense?

Can someone help me figure out just who in the hell Kubiak really is??!!

jaayteetx
10-09-2012, 02:47 PM
IDK...but I do think that he is too predictable in short yardage situiations. It's one thing if your getting results but we've been stuffed too many times already for my liking running to our left side.

Vinny
10-09-2012, 02:51 PM
A
Can someone help me figure out just who in the hell Kubiak really is??!!

he's a local kid made good. I hear he is coaching an undefeated NFL team.

badboy
10-09-2012, 03:15 PM
He is still an outstanding offensive coordinator who has not proven to me he is an above average head coach. Same can be said for Phillips. I think the game where he called play that led to a safety is an example. The constant issues with the head set in Jets game another. He should have had hand signals ready to go. He had to burn a time out that fortunately we did not need. Regardless, as long as team keeps winning, he is head coach.

BlackFizz
10-09-2012, 03:16 PM
he's a local kid made good. I hear he is coaching an undefeated NFL team.

Can this local kid who is undefeated win a SUPERBOWL?? Don't care about a 5-0 start when every team we have beaten is below 500 and only Denver had a qb with any type of pedigree. I should have expected a reply like that.

I never hear any in-between with Kubiak Either he's a guru or total crap. Whether he is 5-0 or 2-3.

Kaiser Toro
10-09-2012, 03:17 PM
I never hear any in-between with Kubiak Either he's a guru or total crap. Whether he is 5-0 or 2-3.

Just look at his record as a head coach, should tell you what you need to know.

b0ng
10-09-2012, 03:18 PM
Gary Kubiak is a guy who will never get credit for 2011-onward unless it's something negative.

Pretty much.

noxiousdog
10-09-2012, 03:23 PM
Just look at his record as a head coach, should tell you what you need to know.

You still have to have players. Look at Bellicheck before Brady and Holmgren without Favre. Or Shannihan without Elway.

Still, I think he's too involved in the offense and not as much in the game day big picture.

I wonder if a football team would be interested in the baseball version of the bench coach, because this one could definitely use it.

Vinny
10-09-2012, 03:24 PM
Can this local kid who is undefeated win a SUPERBOWL?? Don't care about a 5-0 start when every team we have beaten is below 500 and only Denver had a qb with any type of pedigree. I should have expected a reply like that.

I never hear any in-between with Kubiak Either he's a guru or total crap. Whether he is 5-0 or 2-3. Who knows? 32 Coaches, one SB winner each year. Not something that is all that easy to do and there is a ton out of your control as a Coach. Personally, I think he had some rough moments learning his job on the job (as a HC) early on, but has rebounded nicely and has earned a ton of National respect and attention.

Gary Kubiak is a guy who will never get credit for 2011-onward unless it's something negative.

Pretty much.huh? I don't see much negative on Kubiak anywhere outside of social media like message boards (where everyone bitches about everything). Kubiak is getting tons of love across the Nation and he would get a job INSTANTLY if he was out of work. He has plenty of respect.

b0ng
10-09-2012, 03:25 PM
Who knows? 32 Coaches, one SB winner each year. Not something that is all that easy to do and there is a ton out of your control as a Coach. Personally, I think he had some rough moments learning his job on the job (as a HC) early on, but has rebounded nicely and has earned a ton of National respect and attention.

huh? I don't see much negative on Kubiak anywhere outside of social media (where everyone bitches about everything). Kubiak is getting tons of love across the Nation and he would get a job INSTANTLY if he was out of work. He has plenty of respect.

I'm speaking mostly about around here and with most hardcore lovers of the Texans. The national media loves him, but I think the city of Houston is collectively waiting for a letdown so they can point to it and say I TOLD YOU HE WAS A BUM IT WAS PHILLIPS ALL ALONG!

Vinny
10-09-2012, 03:26 PM
I'm speaking mostly about around here and with most hardcore lovers of the Texans. The national media loves him, but I think the city of Houston is collectively waiting for a letdown so they can point to it and say I TOLD YOU HE WAS A BUM.I think "most" Texan fans like the job he is doing. You are focusing too much on chronic complainers like GP. I think guys like that are squarely in the minority.

b0ng
10-09-2012, 03:32 PM
I think "most" Texan fans like the job he is doing. You are focusing too much on chronic complainers like GP. I think guys like that are squarely in the minority.

I do admit to listening to Houston sports radio more than is probably healthy, but I get a distinct feeling that the average Texans fan think Kubiak is a garbage coach who was saved by Wade Phillips and his mysterious 3-4 defense.

I mean, I love me some Wade, and I love what he's done with the defense; there are some people in this city who take it entirely too far and want to give Phillips credit for any and everything that was minutely positive for the Texans in 2011. That's not just GP, thats reading comments, listening to radio and even taking in some of our beloved journalism in this great city.

Vinny
10-09-2012, 03:35 PM
I do admit to listening to Houston sports radio more than is probably healthy, but I get a distinct feeling that the average Texans fan think Kubiak is a garbage coach who was saved by Wade Phillips and his mysterious 3-4 defense.

I mean, I love me some Wade, and I love what he's done with the defense; there are some people in this city who take it entirely too far and want to give Phillips credit for any and everything that was minutely positive for the Texans in 2011. That's not just GP, that reading comments, listening to radio and even taking in some of our beloved journalism in this great city.
I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. If I get 10 complaints on this MB it doesn't trump the thousands that are happy. I look at it like a segment of any group will always complain - they never go away. Just look at this win as a quick example. We win the game and some of you guys don't like the gloss coming out of the talking heads so instead of enjoying 5-0, they focus on being dis-re-spek-ted. Talk about being a debbie downer.

b0ng
10-09-2012, 03:41 PM
I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. If I get 10 complaints on this MB it doesn't trump the thousands that are happy. I look at it like a segment of any group will always complain - they never go away. Just look at this win as a quick example. We win the game and some of you guys don't like the gloss coming out of the talking heads so instead of enjoying 5-0, they focus on being dis-re-spek-ted. Talk about being a debbie downer.

It's just the consensus that I come to from reading this stuff everywhere. You may think I'm off-base by saying that Kubiak won't get credit for 2011-onwards, but, I don't think it's out of this realm to assume that most people that are Texans fans still hold out that Kubiak is not that good of a coach due to stuff like his challenge record, playcalling with a lead, and not being "fiery" enough. These are silly complaints when you look at all of what Kubiak has done with and for the Texans, but they always seem to be there. First loss we get people are going to call into 610 talking about how Kubiak had failed us in some manner (which may or may not be true depending on the context of the loss, but those callers will happen really no matter what the context of the loss truly is).

Basically what I'm saying is, a large number of "Texans fans" (be it fans that only started watching last year, or since 1963), if they are going to heap praise on a coach of the Texans staff, are going to heap it on Wade.

Scooter
10-09-2012, 03:44 PM
kubiak's a players coach with a great offensive system. he's extremely strong in designing and getting execution from route combinations and blocking schemes, with no real weakness in his expertise. any year he can have the leading rusher or receiver or quarterback and has turned a late round offensive line into a top 5 unit for years. he's a heck of a teacher, most players show a lot of progress.

the questions come when you talk about playcalling. very conservative, almost taking too long to set up his big play. there are also a few "wtf" calls per game (the second reverse in the first quarter comes to mind). he seems to be weakest at making adjustments as the game goes along. a lot of folks dont appreciate that he takes the safe smart play over the big swing later in games, but who's to say what the best approach is. maybe he remembers 35-3.

the big fault though is being overly loyal - as we're seeing with marciano who should've been fired years ago - like with the defensive coaches who had no business as coordinator. to that point, "did wade save his job?" ... yes and no. yes it was wade, but any legitimate defensive coordinator would've made a huge impact, especially if they were savvy enough to go after joseph, manning, and watt. wade's obviously one of the best in the business and the two make a perfect pair, almost mirror images on each side of the ball.

as a team builder ... well, just look at how much talent this team has. it took some time to get to this point after 2-14, but we're pretty strong in every facet - with hard working "good guys".

Double Barrel
10-09-2012, 03:45 PM
Kubiak has had the "luxury" of an owner who has an old school mentality. McNair admires the great teams of the past that stood by a head coach while he went threw growing pains and learning curves. Most NFL owners would have fired Kubiak after his fifth season and the 6-10 record. Heck, many Texans fans felt the same way.

But McNair took his lumps and never lost faith in Kubiak. That loyalty, along with maybe the greatest coaching hire of this franchise *cough*Wade*cough*, have paid off nicely so far.

Kubiak has undoubtedly been a great offensive coordinator. Nobody will take that from him. But as a HC, there is some black marks, chiefly hiring two defensive coordinators that gave us historically bad defenses and lost games for us.

I think the final say about Kubiak the head coach is a while off in the distant future. Hopefully, of course, it's a book with a happy ending. But right now, it's too early to say if he's closer to Marvin Lewis or eventually the next "Tom Landry". Time will tell.

Say Watt
10-09-2012, 03:46 PM
I think Kubiak is a great offensive coordinator. I think he is a very good head coach. But I think he is a terrible defensive coach.

I don't think Kubiak is terrible and Wade saved his job; he just never had a decent defensive coordinator and Kubiak is a bit deficient on the defensive side of the ball.

What I like the most about Kubiak is the guy is a true player's coach. He never bad mouths players to the media, but he will let them have it behind closed doors. He will call guys out for not doing their job but when it comes to addressing the media, "It's all on me" is his reply. I hated this for the longest time because I thought that was why we were a bad team. But we now see we were a bad team because we had piss poor defensive coordinators that did not utilize the talent on this team, plus we had a rookie GM that was learning on the job as well.

So who is the real Kubiak? That answer is twofold. Gary Kubiak + a crap defensive coordinator is a bad head coach. Gary Kubiak + a good to great defensive coordinator is a good to potentially great head coach.

Thorn
10-09-2012, 04:41 PM
As long as Kubiak has a good defensive coordinator, he'll be a great head coach. But if left to his own devices, Kubiak is nothing more than an average head coach at best.

The Texans would not be the team they are without BOTH Wade Phillips and Gary Kubiak doing their thing. Take away either one of them, the team will suffer and not be the great team they are right now.

IlliniJen
10-09-2012, 05:25 PM
I sometimes wonder if Kubiak isn't a much better designer of plays than he is a caller of plays.

Marcus
10-09-2012, 05:45 PM
I know that Kubiak has a ton of national media respect, but locally, too much bitter resentment that McNair wouldn't do what the local hardcore fans wanted him to do.

The fact the team is now winning under Kubiak, is not erasing that resentment. As long as there's a zero on the right side of the dash, people will do their level best to hide that resentment.

But, wait until they lose a game, for whatever reason.

Double Barrel
10-09-2012, 05:50 PM
I know that Kubiak has a ton of national media respect, but locally, too much bitter resentment that McNair wouldn't do what the local hardcore fans wanted him to do.

The fact the team is now winning under Kubiak, is not erasing that resentment. As long as there's a zero on the right side of the dash, people will do their level best to hide that resentment.

But, wait until they lose a game, for whatever reason.

I think this is certainly true with some folks. Must be the stubborn ones.

But, I know many of us have reversed our attitudes about Kubiak since 2010. Speaking for myself, I am completely in his corner now and see McNair's big picture. I was just a frustrated fan before, and Kubiak was the target as the HC. But, winning cures many ills, including my own 'sick of it all' attitude from several years ago. I am more than happy to eat some crow about this one. :)

Texecutioner
10-09-2012, 05:51 PM
I do admit to listening to Houston sports radio more than is probably healthy, but I get a distinct feeling that the average Texans fan think Kubiak is a garbage coach who was saved by Wade Phillips and his mysterious 3-4 defense.

I mean, I love me some Wade, and I love what he's done with the defense; there are some people in this city who take it entirely too far and want to give Phillips credit for any and everything that was minutely positive for the Texans in 2011. That's not just GP, thats reading comments, listening to radio and even taking in some of our beloved journalism in this great city.

There is a pretty strong argument towards that considering his history here. You can't just erase that because the Texans are undefeated now with a lights out defense. The fact is this team wasn't consistent or successful record wise until Wade came here and changed the defense over night. He did it in one season. Hell, the offense was horrible last season after Schaub went down and the D carried this team into the playoffs despite a lousy offense. This season the offense is looking pretty "meh" to me. We've got a good running game with our trio, but most of our points are coming from the defense getting good field position and turnovers if you think about it. Gary Kubiak had 5 really bad seasons. That 9-7 season was arguably his worst season in my eyes considering how we lost a few of those games which came from coaching mistakes. Now we're looking at two back to back strong seasons since Wade has been brought here. That theory definitely has some relevance to it, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. You don't have to and we can agree to disagree which is fine. I don't see a ton of people trying to bash Kubiak right now though. If he is making tons of coaching mistakes like he has in the past though, then he'll get criticized accordingly.

Personally Gary is just another Jason Garrett type of HC to me though honestly. Wade Phillips had some pretty good success with Garrett as well when Wade was the coach there and Garrett ran the offense. It's really not that different of a combination. Wade ran the D as the HC and Garrett ran the offense as the OC very similar to how Kubes runs the offense as the HC and Wade runs the defense as the DC, but in the end the HC typically gets all the glory when they're winning and all the critique when they're losing.

GP
10-09-2012, 05:52 PM
So nice to see Vinny and b0ng sporting elitist attitudes...labeling and pegging people into their imaginary "fandom" slots of hierarchy. LMAO.

Keep up the good work, guys. Texans Nation needs your efforts.

Seriously, just for a second, stop patting yourselves on the back and just accept the fact that more than just "GP" feel this way. I don't see Kaiser Toro, a MUCH learned Texans fan stepping out here and saying what you two guys are saying.

IlliniJen? Another reputable member who doesn't exactly gel with the Kubiak Klub's statements and beliefs.

DoubleBarrel? Yeah, another guy who gets frustrated from time to time with Gary Kubiak.

Hervoyel? My oh my, another of those pesky no-nothing Texans fan who thinks Kubiak's worst enemy is Kubiak.

And that's just for starters. So this whole bull**** act of you two, it's sad. Just stop already. Don't sit there and call out members by name, loading up on them when they're not around. It's tacky.

GP
10-09-2012, 05:53 PM
There is a pretty strong argument towards that considering his history here. You can't just erase that because the Texans are undefeated now with a lights out defense. The fact is this team wasn't consistent or successful record wise until Wade came here and changed the defense over night. He did it in one season. Hell, the offense was horrible last season after Schaub went down and the D carried this team into the playoffs despite a lousy offense. This season the offense is looking pretty "meh" to me. We've got a good running game with our trio, but most of our points are coming from the defense getting good field position and turnovers if you think about it. Gary Kubiak had 5 really bad seasons. That 9-7 season was arguably his worst season in my eyes considering how we lost a few of those games which came from coaching mistakes. Now we're looking at two back to back strong seasons since Wade has been brought here. That theory definitely has some relevance to it, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. You don't have to and we can agree to disagree which is fine. I don't see a ton of people trying to bash Kubiak right now though. If he is making tons of coaching mistakes like he has in the past though, then he'll get criticized accordingly.

Personally Gary is just another Jason Garrett type of HC to me though honestly. Wade Phillips had some pretty good success with Garrett as well when Wade was the coach there and Garrett ran the defense. It's really not that different of a combination.

And yet another I could have listed. Tex, didn't you hear? You are in a minority around here. You know very little, you just ***** a lot.

According to some...:kitten:

GP
10-09-2012, 05:55 PM
I sometimes wonder if Kubiak isn't a much better designer of plays than he is a caller of plays.

Been of that opinion for YEARS now.

He is a builder of great offense, but he has tendencies on game day that are as easy to read as a coloring book.

Texecutioner
10-09-2012, 05:57 PM
I think Kubiak is a great offensive coordinator. I think he is a very good head coach. But I think he is a terrible defensive coach.

I don't think Kubiak is terrible and Wade saved his job; he just never had a decent defensive coordinator and Kubiak is a bit deficient on the defensive side of the ball.

What I like the most about Kubiak is the guy is a true player's coach. He never bad mouths players to the media, but he will let them have it behind closed doors. He will call guys out for not doing their job but when it comes to addressing the media, "It's all on me" is his reply. I hated this for the longest time because I thought that was why we were a bad team. But we now see we were a bad team because we had piss poor defensive coordinators that did not utilize the talent on this team, plus we had a rookie GM that was learning on the job as well.

So who is the real Kubiak? That answer is twofold. Gary Kubiak + a crap defensive coordinator is a bad head coach. Gary Kubiak + a good to great defensive coordinator is a good to potentially great head coach.

As HC Gary is and was directly responsible for those bad DC hires in the past. Many people questioned the hiring of Frank Bush after Smith had done such an atomic poor job. Gary continued to hire his buddies who weren't ready for the job and it did in fact hurt the team a lot. The general consensus was that Mcnair forced Wade Phillips on him for one last shot which was his 3rd DC to hire. Those mistakes were on Kubiak.

Texecutioner
10-09-2012, 06:03 PM
And yet another I could have listed. Tex, didn't you hear? You are in a minority around here. You know very little, you just ***** a lot.

According to some...:kitten:

Well it's funny because it wasn't long ago at all that some of the people that act like he is a great coach now were blasting the hell out of the guy not that long ago. Now it's as if none of it ever happened. I'm pretty sure a lot of those people will go right back to bashing the guy for the same stuff if the Texans go back to being average or embarrassing. I have not changed my thoughts on Kubiak at all. He is who he is. He had a great DC forced on him, and got the luxury of having a top 5 defense in the league. A defense like that can change a lot of teams even if the offense is horrible in many cases. Ask the Ravens and the Titans from a few years ago. The success of this team is definitely not all on the defense or anything, but the defense is what is dominating right now. Either way I'll take it. Gary is most likely going to be around here for as long as he wants to be around here. Mcnair thinks of him like a son, so whether you think he is a great HC or not, we're all going to have to learn to live with him.

Texecutioner
10-09-2012, 06:08 PM
So nice to see Vinny and b0ng sporting elitist attitudes...labeling and pegging people into their imaginary "fandom" slots of hierarchy. LMAO.

Keep up the good work, guys. Texans Nation needs your efforts.

Seriously, just for a second, stop patting yourselves on the back and just accept the fact that more than just "GP" feel this way. I don't see Kaiser Toro, a MUCH learned Texans fan stepping out here and saying what you two guys are saying.

IlliniJen? Another reputable member who doesn't exactly gel with the Kubiak Klub's statements and beliefs.

DoubleBarrel? Yeah, another guy who gets frustrated from time to time with Gary Kubiak.

Hervoyel? My oh my, another of those pesky no-nothing Texans fan who thinks Kubiak's worst enemy is Kubiak.

And that's just for starters. So this whole bull**** act of you two, it's sad. Just stop already. Don't sit there and call out members by name, loading up on them when they're not around. It's tacky.

I knew this thread had no chance of being completely civil.

steelbtexan
10-09-2012, 06:17 PM
Gary is an avg HC who's conserxative nature costs his team a couple of games each yr. He should thank BoB everday that BoB didn't fire him and that BoB had the good sense to hire Wade.

Without Wade, Gary = Fail. Atleast that's what Garys record says pre-Wade.

steelbtexan
10-09-2012, 06:17 PM
Gary is an avg HC who's conserxative nature costs his team a couple of games each yr. He should thank BoB everyday that BoB didn't fire him and that BoB had the good sense to hire Wade.

Without Wade, Gary = Fail. Atleast that's what Garys record says pre-Wade.

TheMatrix31
10-09-2012, 06:19 PM
I think Kubiak is a good coach overall who has games where his playcalling and time/game-management is not up-to-snuff.

Last night was one of those. Luckily we won anyway.

IlliniJen
10-09-2012, 10:54 PM
Been of that opinion for YEARS now.

He is a builder of great offense, but he has tendencies on game day that are as easy to read as a coloring book.

Or a completely incomprehensible play when a much higher success percentage play is out there to be had.

And how many years did we wait for a fade to the corner of the end zone to Dre? 5?

I'm not saying he's a horrible coach, but I do think his weaknesses are covered by talent on offense and Wade on defense. His record as a HC don't indicate that he's be terribly successful anywhere else without a good mix of talent and coaching like he now has here.

I think the Texans are a 'perfect storm' for Kubiak right now, save for a lacking a bit at WR and a lot on special teams. I think he does specific things exceptionally well. The play action pass is a perfect example. It may be the best in the league. The ZBS is another example that's being tested a bit this year with less talent/experience on the O line.

I can't completely drink the Kubes Kool Aid because I've been a fan since the team's inception and I've seen the struggles the team has had under Kubiak's early years. There's a little lipstick on the pig going on here. That's not to discount Kubes completely, but I don't think he suddenly became a great coach overnight. That defense going from worst to almost first is pretty phenomenal. That can't be overlooked.

We'll see when there's a more varied body of work to judge from. We have a relatively small sample size with Kube's resume right now as a HC.

2slik4u
10-09-2012, 10:57 PM
IDK...but I do think that he is too predictable in short yardage situiations. It's one thing if your getting results but we've been stuffed too many times already for my liking running to our left side.

If he passed the ball on 3rd and short instead of running the ball regularly, we would be calling for his head.

Please dont forget that we have the best run blocking scheme in the NFL. The best run blocking line in the NFL...and oh yeah, the best RB in the NFL.

Why the hell would we not run???

Scooter
10-09-2012, 11:36 PM
edit.

76Texan
10-10-2012, 12:12 AM
Kubiak has had the "luxury" of an owner who has an old school mentality. McNair admires the great teams of the past that stood by a head coach while he went threw growing pains and learning curves. Most NFL owners would have fired Kubiak after his fifth season and the 6-10 record. Heck, many Texans fans felt the same way.

But McNair took his lumps and never lost faith in Kubiak. That loyalty, along with maybe the greatest coaching hire of this franchise *cough*Wade*cough*, have paid off nicely so far.

Kubiak has undoubtedly been a great offensive coordinator. Nobody will take that from him. But as a HC, there is some black marks, chiefly hiring two defensive coordinators that gave us historically bad defenses and lost games for us.

I think the final say about Kubiak the head coach is a while off in the distant future. Hopefully, of course, it's a book with a happy ending. But right now, it's too early to say if he's closer to Marvin Lewis or eventually the next "Tom Landry". Time will tell.I know one coach whose record Kubiak is really close to.

Bum Phillips, Houston beloved legend is at .516 (82-77).
Gary Kubiak is currently at .515 (52-49).

ObsiWan
10-10-2012, 12:28 AM
I know that Kubiak has a ton of national media respect, but locally, too much bitter resentment that McNair wouldn't do what the local hardcore fans wanted him to do.

The fact the team is now winning under Kubiak, is not erasing that resentment. As long as there's a zero on the right side of the dash, people will do their level best to hide that resentment.

But, wait until they lose a game, for whatever reason.

This is exactly right.
There was bitching about Kubiak running out the clock in the 4th qtr with the lead to preserve the win last night.

And to answer the "why does he always run in 3rd/4th & short situations, Kubiak has always believed that if we're going NOT going to be a "soft" or "finesse" team then we need to be tough enough to man up and get that one yard when they know we're coming; he believes the "great" teams can do that. They can succeed when the defense knows what they're going to do but can't stop it. That's the mentality - expect success - he expects from his offense.
I like it, but that's just me ...it's the kind of football Cowher would play
:shrug:

Insideop
10-10-2012, 01:50 AM
BlackFizz, you have just reopened a big can of worms and a real sore spot for some around here. If Kubes won 6 Super Bowls, with and/or without Wade, there would still be some on this MB that think he is a bad HC and should be run out of town. He will never be a good or great HC in their eyes. Not to make Kubes out to be a prophet or anything but it's like the old Biblical quote about a prophet in his own land... I've often wondered :thinking: if this has anything to do with some Texan fan's college affiliation or loyalty (ie, Kubiak is a "dumb Aggie" and could never be a good coach). Would make for an interesting poll!

My thinking is more along with what Vinny, DB, 76, and others are thinking. Kubes has grown into his position along with Rick and even, to some extent, Bob, and they are getting better and better every year at what they do. It hasn't happened as fast as most would like, but we're here now, so enjoy the wins!

dream_team
10-10-2012, 03:24 AM
As HC Gary is and was directly responsible for those bad DC hires in the past. Many people questioned the hiring of Frank Bush after Smith had done such an atomic poor job. Gary continued to hire his buddies who weren't ready for the job and it did in fact hurt the team a lot. The general consensus was that Mcnair forced Wade Phillips on him for one last shot which was his 3rd DC to hire. Those mistakes were on Kubiak.

Honest question here... but where did you hear Wade had to be forced onto Gary? I have only heard of this around this board. I have never heard a credible source say this. Just wondering who, outside of these message boards, have said this.

dream_team
10-10-2012, 03:36 AM
I'm not saying he's a horrible coach, but I do think his weaknesses are covered by talent on offense and Wade on defense. His record as a HC don't indicate that he's be terribly successful anywhere else without a good mix of talent and coaching like he now has here.

Why doesn't Kubiak get any credit for developing that talent on offense? Keep in mind, AJ is the only high draft pick on offense. Duane Brown was a low first rounder that all the experts thought we reached for. Chris Myers was a 6th rounder. Schaub was a 3rd, Owen 4th, and we all know where Foster was drafted. I always thought this offense was amazing, considering we didn't need multiple high picks to build it.

dream_team
10-10-2012, 03:39 AM
Gary is an avg HC who's conserxative nature costs his team a couple of games each yr. He should thank BoB everyday that BoB didn't fire him and that BoB had the good sense to hire Wade.

Without Wade, Gary = Fail. Atleast that's what Garys record says pre-Wade.

And how many games each year do the Texans win because of his conservative nature?

Scooter
10-10-2012, 04:15 AM
Why doesn't Kubiak get any credit for developing that talent on offense? Keep in mind, AJ is the only high draft pick on offense. Duane Brown was a low first rounder that all the experts thought we reached for. Chris Myers was a 6th rounder. Schaub was a 3rd, Owen 4th, and we all know where Foster was drafted. I always thought this offense was amazing, considering we didn't need multiple high picks to build it.

this is a point that kubiak will never get credit for, though i've harped on it for years. for all the knocks, real and perceived, kubiak has created a top 3 offense year in and year out while using extremely little resources. draft picks and the bulk of the salary cap have been given to the defense since the beginning. this being something i'm sure wade is very appreciative of - especially with the freedom to bring joseph, manning, and the draft with him. until this year with the re-signing of myers, duane and foster, our offense couldnt have taken more than 30% of the cap (and most of that being andre).

people ask why we cant develop wide receivers ... name one we've drafted before the 6th round (not counting this year).

Hookem Horns
10-10-2012, 06:45 AM
This isn't rocket science.

Kubiak is an excellent offensive coordinator who has proven in the past to be a mediocre head coach. His record before Wade proves that point.

You bring in Wade who is an excellent defensive mind and that in itself is going to bring in some more wins putting an average team above average (as we saw last season).

Wade is also bringing in another element that has changed the culture of the team. Maybe that element is JJ Watt. Maybe it's the fact that the defense is very confident now and the defense just sets the tone of the entire team.

To me this is an interesting experiment. Can a team win with 2 of the game's best coordinators but without a solid HC be successful? Right now they are 5-0 so you can say yes.

However when you get into the playoffs and are pushing toward a Super Bowl, that's when you need a solid HC IMO. A guy who can get the team mentally prepared and also make some clutch decisions during games.

Not a guy who is going to start choking when the game is on the line and start playing not to lose.

Wade has definitely bought Kubiak some more time to learn how to be a good HC. I hope he does become a good HC. Actually until Monday night I was thinking he finally turned the corner, now I am not so sure.

The obvious best case scenario for the Texans is not to be in close games. The close games is where Kubiak starts showing his shortcomings as a HC.

Scooter
10-10-2012, 07:28 AM
Kubiak is an excellent offensive coordinator who has proven in the past to be a mediocre head coach. His record before Wade proves that point.

for grins, assume in any of the past 4 seasons we had a top 15 defense. not some great defense, anything in the top half of the league would qualify. considering the assets given to the defense that shouldnt have been a problem. how many playoff appearances would kubiak have? in 2009 (our first winning season) we had the 17th ranked scoring defense - highest since '04. i understand the blame falls squarely on kubiak for the coaches he hired which kept that from happening, but the tune would be a whole lot different had he brought in a legitimate coordinator earlier.

we get a legitimate coordinator and kubiak is 16-7. that looks to me as more than mediocre, considering the consensus is we have the most complete team in football - after dropping 2 all pro defensive players, 2 offensive linemen, and a handful of role players in the past two seasons.

However when you get into the playoffs and are pushing toward a Super Bowl, that's when you need a solid HC IMO. A guy who can get the team mentally prepared and also make some clutch decisions during games.

according to shanahan, kubiak took over play calling leading to both broncos superbowl wins. i think his rings speak for kubiak's ability to make decisions on the biggest stage. and let's not forget last season, kubiak got a team with a hobbled receiver and 5th string rookie to go toe to toe with a great team on their turf - the team WILL play for kubiak.

infantrycak
10-10-2012, 08:12 AM
Honest question here... but where did you hear Wade had to be forced onto Gary? I have only heard of this around this board. I have never heard a credible source say this. Just wondering who, outside of these message boards, have said this.

Nowhere. It is pure MB speculation. Folks who wanted Kubiak fired have developed their own mythology system for how Wade got hired minimizing any role Kubiak may have had. Truth is we don't know.

Thorn
10-10-2012, 08:28 AM
The Texans would not be the team they are today without Wade Phillips. Period. So, does that mean Kubiak can't coach or does that mean Kubiak knows how to bring in talent? Before Wade, this team was a frigging mess, after Wade it's a contender. Do I want Wade as head coach? Nope.

Kubiak has yet to show he can do the job without serious help on the coaching staff, and that honestly doesn't make him a whole lot different than a lot of other head coaches. My main deal with Kubiak is his past record of hiring defensive coaches before Wade got here. Believe me, without Wade, Kubiak and the Texans are right back into being a frigging mess.

Maddict5
10-10-2012, 08:51 AM
This isn't rocket science.

Kubiak is an excellent offensive coordinator who has proven in the past to be a mediocre head coach. His record before Wade proves that point.

You bring in Wade who is an excellent defensive mind and that in itself is going to bring in some more wins putting an average team above average (as we saw last season).

Wade is also bringing in another element that has changed the culture of the team. Maybe that element is JJ Watt. Maybe it's the fact that the defense is very confident now and the defense just sets the tone of the entire team.

To me this is an interesting experiment. Can a team win with 2 of the game's best coordinators but without a solid HC be successful? Right now they are 5-0 so you can say yes.

However when you get into the playoffs and are pushing toward a Super Bowl, that's when you need a solid HC IMO. A guy who can get the team mentally prepared and also make some clutch decisions during games.

Not a guy who is going to start choking when the game is on the line and start playing not to lose.

Wade has definitely bought Kubiak some more time to learn how to be a good HC. I hope he does become a good HC. Actually until Monday night I was thinking he finally turned the corner, now I am not so sure.

The obvious best case scenario for the Texans is not to be in close games. The close games is where Kubiak starts showing his shortcomings as a HC.


what makes a solid head coach? last time i checked, the players all respect kubiak alot as evidenced by them ALWAYS playing hard even when the season was gone down the ****ter.

a team without a solid HC doesnt perform like the texans did last yr with a rookie qb.

btw im loving that, because kubiak is smart enough to know he can win playing bland against the jets in week 5 when the team is 4-0, it makes him a bad playcaller etc... everybody questioning stuff like that is playing checkers, he's playing chess. when it comes to games that matter in the playoffs etc, we wont play so bland.. and the other team wont have those plays on tape either

ive said it all along- kubiak is a great HC & OC. he needs a good D co-ordinator and talent on D (something he allows by always giving the D high picks etc- another reason hes so good btw). glad to see him finally get his deserved rewards the last 2 years. many more to come.....

Hookem Horns
10-10-2012, 08:53 AM
for grins, assume in any of the past 4 seasons we had a top 15 defense. not some great defense, anything in the top half of the league would qualify. considering the assets given to the defense that shouldnt have been a problem. how many playoff appearances would kubiak have? in 2009 (our first winning season) we had the 17th ranked scoring defense - highest since '04. i understand the blame falls squarely on kubiak for the coaches he hired which kept that from happening, but the tune would be a whole lot different had he brought in a legitimate coordinator earlier.

we get a legitimate coordinator and kubiak is 16-7. that looks to me as more than mediocre, considering the consensus is we have the most complete team in football - after dropping 2 all pro defensive players, 2 offensive linemen, and a handful of role players in the past two seasons.



according to shanahan, kubiak took over play calling leading to both broncos superbowl wins. i think his rings speak for kubiak's ability to make decisions on the biggest stage. and let's not forget last season, kubiak got a team with a hobbled receiver and 5th string rookie to go toe to toe with a great team on their turf - the team WILL play for kubiak.

Honestly Scooter, this is how I feel. I am not sold on him as a HC. I agree with everything Thorn just said in the above post. However I don't want to get in a big debate about it because honestly I want to be wrong and I want you to be right. I like the guy as a person and want him to succeed.

Also the team is 5-0 right now so I am going to just let it go for now, hope I am wrong and continue to enjoy the season.

Trail.Blazr
10-10-2012, 09:34 AM
If he passed the ball on 3rd and short instead of running the ball regularly, we would be calling for his head.

Please dont forget that we have the best run blocking scheme in the NFL. The best run blocking line in the NFL...and oh yeah, the best RB in the NFL.

Why the hell would we not run???

You mean, like when the team is on the 9 yd line with 14 sec's and a time out to finish off the first half of the Jets game? :kitten:

I used to fly the pink soap. I've given up. If he wasn't fired by 2010, it certainly isn't going to happen. Now with a play off berth followed by a 5-0 start, I've conceded that Kubiak's job is secure for practical eternity.

Which ever side of the fence you reside, most comment regarding Kubiak here have varying elements of truth. With my acceptance of him as the HC for years to come, I would summarize him as a loyal(which is good and bad), players coach, who has been learning to be a head coach, as a result of being a great O-Coordinator/Local Houston native.

I do Like Gary Kubiak, the person and actually like his coaching style and his potential for greatness. However, I felt that it was obvious, early on that he doesn't have "it" yet and we've all had to endure the growing pains that come with that. I, personally would have had a "first time coach" on a short leash. McNair didn't. Kudo's to Kubiak. For all the pain and suffering experienced as a fan for the past 10 years(not that Kubiak is responsible for it all), ATM, I'm glad to be silenced by a playoff loss and a 5-0 start(smoke n mirrors or not). I hope to see Gary Kubiak continue to blossom into a Hall of Fame caliber coach. The reality is, that's the only place I can hang my hat. He's here to stay.

Texan_Bill
10-10-2012, 09:57 AM
I sometimes wonder if Kubiak isn't a much better designer of plays than he is a caller of plays.

I like Kubiak, but I think there is a lot of truth to this ^^^^^^^^^

Double Barrel
10-10-2012, 11:10 AM
Evolution, folks. Not the evolution of primordial soup to humans, but the evolution of an offensive coordinator taking over a craptastic 2-14 team and having to learn how to be a head coach.

McNair could have listened to fans in 2010 and let Kubiak go. He would have been picked up by another team and used his 5 seasons with the Texans as a learning experience. Then when he took his new team to the playoffs, everyone would be dogging McNair for being just another knee-jerk owner.

I'm not a blind homer for Kubiak by any stretch. Some of his play-calling drives me crazy during games, especially that conservative play-not-to-lose mentality when we have a lead. And he's not above criticism. Just about every coach in the league with few exceptions is subject to it. I have no problem analyzing him as a head coach, as long as it's objective.

However, my perspective is also evolving. Kubiak is no longer a failure. He took a a team riddled with key injuries to the playoffs and won. I know everyone wants to credit Wade, who does deserve much respect, but you also have to appreciate a head coach that is willing to admit his mistakes and hire someone that could easily take his job. Head coaches have huge egos, and that Kubiak was able to check his to better the team should be recognized as a positive, no matter how the Texans hired Wade.

I know the hard feelings and abysmal past is always there, but at some point we've got to let it go and just enjoy the ride of success while we can. There's no guarantee for tomorrow.

We are 5-0 right now for the first time in HOUSTON FOOTBALL HISTORY. Not even the previous NFL team ever gave us that kind of season start in 4 decades. And while there is still a lot of football left to be played before we can mark this season a success, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice to dwell on the negatives of the past instead of just enjoying the positives of the present.

Insideop
10-10-2012, 11:23 AM
Evolution, folks. Not the evolution of primordial soup to humans, but the evolution of an offensive coordinator taking over a craptastic 2-14 team and having to learn how to be a head coach.

McNair could have listened to fans in 2010 and let Kubiak go. He would have been picked up by another team and used his 5 seasons with the Texans as a learning experience. Then when he took his new team to the playoffs, everyone would be dogging McNair for being just another knee-jerk owner.

I'm not a blind homer for Kubiak by any stretch. Some of his play-calling drives me crazy during games, especially that conservative play-not-to-lose mentality when we have a lead. And he's not above criticism. Just about every coach in the league with few exceptions is subject to it. I have no problem analyzing him as a head coach, as long as it's objective.

However, my perspective is also evolving. Kubiak is no longer a failure. He took a a team riddled with key injuries to the playoffs and won. I know everyone wants to credit Wade, who does deserve much respect, but you also have to appreciate a head coach that is willing to admit his mistakes and hire someone that could easily take his job. Head coaches have huge egos, and that Kubiak was able to check his to better the team should be recognized as a positive, no matter how the Texans hired Wade.

I know the hard feelings and abysmal past is always there, but at some point we've got to let it go and just enjoy the ride of success while we can. There's no guarantee for tomorrow.

We are 5-0 right now for the first time in HOUSTON FOOTBALL HISTORY. Not even the previous NFL team ever gave us that kind of season start in 4 decades. And while there is still a lot of football left to be played before we can mark this season a success, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice to dwell on the negatives of the past instead of just enjoying the positives of the present.

Well said DB, well said.

House of Pain
10-10-2012, 12:00 PM
As a die hard Texans fan, i'm starting to get a bit confused. For years all i heard from Texan fans is that Kubes is inept. Most fans and local media called for his job after the 2010 season. I heard that he coaches not to lose. I heard that he is in over his head in big games, he cant call plays in the red zone, he has never utilized AJ in the red zone properly (lack of fade routes inside the 15 or ten against one on ones) ect.

This year i'm hearing that now he is the best play caller in the league. An offensive guru, the most creative play caller in all of football. He has all his weapons at his disposal now, so now the league will finally see what true offensive genius looks like.

I admit the 3rd down runs and draws do concern me. The first drive of the game was a thing of beauty. But we only kicked 3 field goals for the most part of three quarters.

So is he the creative offensive genius we see from time to time, or the Kubes who most wanted run out of town just just a season andd a half ago??

Did Wade Phillips truly save and inept Kubiak's job?

Or is Kubiak an offensive genius, who just needed little help on defense?

Can someone help me figure out just who in the hell Kubiak really is??!!

Gary? Is that you?

ObsiWan
10-10-2012, 12:14 PM
Evolution, folks. Not the evolution of primordial soup to humans, but the evolution of an offensive coordinator taking over a craptastic 2-14 team and having to learn how to be a head coach.

McNair could have listened to fans in 2010 and let Kubiak go. He would have been picked up by another team and used his 5 seasons with the Texans as a learning experience. Then when he took his new team to the playoffs, everyone would be dogging McNair for being just another knee-jerk owner.

I'm not a blind homer for Kubiak by any stretch. Some of his play-calling drives me crazy during games, especially that conservative play-not-to-lose mentality when we have a lead. And he's not above criticism. Just about every coach in the league with few exceptions is subject to it. I have no problem analyzing him as a head coach, as long as it's objective.

However, my perspective is also evolving. Kubiak is no longer a failure. He took a a team riddled with key injuries to the playoffs and won. I know everyone wants to credit Wade, who does deserve much respect, but you also have to appreciate a head coach that is willing to admit his mistakes and hire someone that could easily take his job. Head coaches have huge egos, and that Kubiak was able to check his to better the team should be recognized as a positive, no matter how the Texans hired Wade.

I know the hard feelings and abysmal past is always there, but at some point we've got to let it go and just enjoy the ride of success while we can. There's no guarantee for tomorrow.

We are 5-0 right now for the first time in HOUSTON FOOTBALL HISTORY. Not even the previous NFL team ever gave us that kind of season start in 4 decades. And while there is still a lot of football left to be played before we can mark this season a success, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice to dwell on the negatives of the past instead of just enjoying the positives of the present.

I'm going to piggy-back on your theme here... I would compare the "evolution" of Kubiak to that of Duane Brown, Kareem Jackson, or (and?) Chris Myers. When those guys first arrived some were skeptical because they wanted someone else with the picks we used to obtain these guys. Others said let's wait and see. And at some point - many points - during their initial time here they were less than stellar. Okay, at times they flat out sucked. But they kept grinding away, learning on the job, screwing up as they did so. But they kept working at it and now they all are valued members of our team - some playing at pro bowl level.

Same with Kubiak. It was painful at times to watch him learn the diff between just being responsible for the next play as an O.C. and being responsible for EVERYTHING as H.C. His early missteps and fails gave me heartburn too and I'm a charter member of the Sunshine club. Now I ain't trying to say that Kubiak has become whatever passes for "pro-bowl" in coaching but he - AND Wade - have got the team playing at a high level.

And laugh if you wanna I don't care, but I don't know if I could have taken having to import some dang Yankee (Gruden, Cowher, Billick, whoever) come in an "save" our Texas team.
:gotexans1

Marcus
10-10-2012, 12:33 PM
Evolution, folks. Not the evolution of primordial soup to humans, but the evolution of an offensive coordinator taking over a craptastic 2-14 team and having to learn how to be a head coach.

McNair could have listened to fans in 2010 and let Kubiak go. He would have been picked up by another team and used his 5 seasons with the Texans as a learning experience. Then when he took his new team to the playoffs, everyone would be dogging McNair for being just another knee-jerk owner.

I'm not a blind homer for Kubiak by any stretch. Some of his play-calling drives me crazy during games, especially that conservative play-not-to-lose mentality when we have a lead. And he's not above criticism. Just about every coach in the league with few exceptions is subject to it. I have no problem analyzing him as a head coach, as long as it's objective.

However, my perspective is also evolving. Kubiak is no longer a failure. He took a a team riddled with key injuries to the playoffs and won. I know everyone wants to credit Wade, who does deserve much respect, but you also have to appreciate a head coach that is willing to admit his mistakes and hire someone that could easily take his job. Head coaches have huge egos, and that Kubiak was able to check his to better the team should be recognized as a positive, no matter how the Texans hired Wade.

I know the hard feelings and abysmal past is always there, but at some point we've got to let it go and just enjoy the ride of success while we can. There's no guarantee for tomorrow.

We are 5-0 right now for the first time in HOUSTON FOOTBALL HISTORY. Not even the previous NFL team ever gave us that kind of season start in 4 decades. And while there is still a lot of football left to be played before we can mark this season a success, I think we are doing ourselves a disservice to dwell on the negatives of the past instead of just enjoying the positives of the present.

Good post, DB. MSR

Regarding your last sentence in bold, you're exactly right. Unfortunately, and sadly, I have absolutely ZERO faith it will happen. Just way too much lingering resentment.

Texecutioner
10-10-2012, 06:37 PM
Good post, DB. MSR

Regarding your last sentence in bold, you're exactly right. Unfortunately, and sadly, I have absolutely ZERO faith it will happen. Just way too much lingering resentment.

Actually you are one of the biggest ones in here that dwells on the past. I could be rich if I could count how many times I've heard you either predict that members of this board will bash Gary relentlessly the minute the team loses or constantly whining about the criticisms that Kubiak has received in past seasons even when things are going great. I haven't seen any Kubiak bashing this season. Why is that? The team is winning and other then a few questionable calls and philosophical differences, most fans across the board have been pretty pleased.

This very thread got started because some random new fan asked who the real Kubiak is and mentioned differing opinions he has heard. What did you think would be discussed after the OP asked the question? Isn't it somewhat rhetorical that the answers and discussion would involve both the present day success and the historical downfalls? If you don't want to hear about the negative history that has been existent here, then why go out of your way to bring it up so much? That's dwelling on the negatives and it's also a strong part of your own resentment. Not just you, but a few others as well. Sometimes people seem to completely forget that this is a message board and debating these topics is the purpose for this place along with hanging out with other fans online any way.

drs23
10-10-2012, 06:47 PM
I'm going to piggy-back on your theme here... I would compare the "evolution" of Kubiak to that of Duane Brown, Kareem Jackson, or (and?) Chris Myers. When those guys first arrived some were skeptical because they wanted someone else with the picks we used to obtain these guys. Others said let's wait and see. And at some point - many points - during their initial time here they were less than stellar. Okay, at times they flat out sucked. But they kept grinding away, learning on the job, screwing up as they did so. But they kept working at it and now they all are valued members of our team - some playing at pro bowl level.

Same with Kubiak. It was painful at times to watch him learn the diff between just being responsible for the next play as an O.C. and being responsible for EVERYTHING as H.C. His early missteps and fails gave me heartburn too and I'm a charter member of the Sunshine club. Now I ain't Kubiak is whatever passes for pro-bowl in coaching but he - AND Wade - have got the team playing at a high level.

And laugh if you wanna I don't care, but I don't know if I could have taken having to import some dang Yankee (Gruden, Cowher, Billick, whoever) come in an "save" our Texas team.
:gotexans1

Well said men. (it's (men) since you piggybacked) This is directed at both of you guys. I would have articulated DB's post long ago had I been able to do as well as he did. Same goes for you Obis.

And MSR for both of ya's. Oh well, will catch it when I can.

Great post from both of you guys. Thanks.

Surreal McCoy
10-10-2012, 07:02 PM
Just look at his record as a head coach, should tell you what you need to know.

Ahh, so we'll finish 8-8.

GlassHalfFull
10-10-2012, 07:10 PM
DB and Obsiwan did a great job of articulating how I have been feeling. For the most part I try and stay out of these threads, but have felt that I need to go on record for Kubiak.

I have hoped since he was hired that he could develop into a long term coach for us. It has been painful to watch at times, but he has been slowly (yes, way too slowly for some) building a quality organization from bottom to top.

Watching and reading these thread over the years has been an education in human nature. There are the posters who have to beat a point to death and beat up on others who disagree. There are the posters who hold a grudge, those who are impatient or quick to jump to conclusions.

My answer to the question is that Kubiak is an experienced professional who has spent all his adult life involved with various aspects of the game. As much as we would like, none of us fans knows who Kubiak really is. He appears to be a private person, based on the lack of buzz about him. He appears to like to keep things close to his vest. But, most importantly, he is the head coach of the Houston Texans and as such I wish him all the success possible.

His players are behind him and I am too :fans:

b0ng
10-11-2012, 11:41 AM
I feel as though the point I made earlier was only enforced by the posts made after it.

steelbtexan
10-11-2012, 11:53 AM
And how many games each year do the Texans win because of his conservative nature?

Less than 50% before Wade.

steelbtexan
10-11-2012, 12:23 PM
This isn't rocket science.

Kubiak is an excellent offensive coordinator who has proven in the past to be a mediocre head coach. His record before Wade proves that point.

You bring in Wade who is an excellent defensive mind and that in itself is going to bring in some more wins putting an average team above average (as we saw last season).

Wade is also bringing in another element that has changed the culture of the team. Maybe that element is JJ Watt. Maybe it's the fact that the defense is very confident now and the defense just sets the tone of the entire team.

To me this is an interesting experiment. Can a team win with 2 of the game's best coordinators but without a solid HC be successful? Right now they are 5-0 so you can say yes.

However when you get into the playoffs and are pushing toward a Super Bowl, that's when you need a solid HC IMO. A guy who can get the team mentally prepared and also make some clutch decisions during games.

Not a guy who is going to start choking when the game is on the line and start playing not to lose.

Wade has definitely bought Kubiak some more time to learn how to be a good HC. I hope he does become a good HC. Actually until Monday night I was thinking he finally turned the corner, now I am not so sure.

The obvious best case scenario for the Texans is not to be in close games. The close games is where Kubiak starts showing his shortcomings as a HC.

Great Post

Repped

steelbtexan
10-11-2012, 12:36 PM
what makes a solid head coach? last time i checked, the players all respect kubiak alot as evidenced by them ALWAYS playing hard even when the season was gone down the ****ter.

a team without a solid HC doesnt perform like the texans did last yr with a rookie qb.

btw im loving that, because kubiak is smart enough to know he can win playing bland against the jets in week 5 when the team is 4-0, it makes him a bad playcaller etc... everybody questioning stuff like that is playing checkers, he's playing chess. when it comes to games that matter in the playoffs etc, we wont play so bland.. and the other team wont have those plays on tape either

ive said it all along- kubiak is a great HC & OC. he needs a good D co-ordinator and talent on D (something he allows by always giving the D high picks etc- another reason hes so good btw). glad to see him finally get his deserved rewards the last 2 years. many more to come.....

I think I speak for all Texans fans in saying, we hope you're right.

Whoop up on the PACK.

Go Texans

Hookem Horns
10-11-2012, 12:51 PM
I think I speak for all Texans fans in saying, we hope you're right.

Whoop up on the PACK.

Go Texans

Agreed. I want to be wrong with my opinion of Kubiak. So with that in mind I have no desire to argue with those that disagree with my current opinion.

I think we will learn more about Kubiak on Sunday night. The Texans have every excuse in the book to lose.

Excuse 1, they are coming off a hard fought Monday night win. I think the record of teams coming off of MNF wins is not that favorable.

Excuse 2, the Packers are going to be beyond desperate at this point. They have to be thinking this is a MUST win considering if they lose they fall to 2-4.

Excuse 3, the Packers blew a big lead and were embarrassed against a seemingly lesser opponent. They are going to be playing above their heads to turn their season around vs a team that many are projecting as the best team in the NFL right now.

Excuse 4, Brian Cushing being out. It might take the defense a little time to make the necessary adjustments for his absense. Also on a short week there was simply not enough time.

Exuse 5, Hey, we are 5-0. We didn't expect to be undefeated this season so losing to a desperate Packers team is no big deal.

I am sure I could come up with some more. However if this team pulls out a win despite the above then I will give major kudos to Kubiak.

Thorn
10-11-2012, 01:10 PM
Agreed. I want to be wrong with my opinion of Kubiak. So with that in mind I have no desire to argue with those that disagree with my current opinion.

I couldn't agree more with this. I know it's been said by a few on this board they can't stand the "I predict a bad thing to happen but I hope I'm wrong" sentence. Well, I see nothing wrong with "I think Houston will be hit by that hurricane forming in the Gulf, but I hope I'm wrong" and I don't think anyone else would see anything wrong with it either.

But if you say the same thing about something Texans related, instantly you get blow back about not being a truely supportive fan. Well, **** that ****. I don't think Kubiak is truely anything more than an average head coach if left to his own devices. He comes nowhere near to being a Parcells, Cower, or Belichick. But that doesn't mean that he won't become one over time, he just isn't one right now.

And, oh yeah, I'd love to be proven wrong. :)

Hookem Horns
10-14-2012, 11:13 PM
I think we will learn more about Kubiak on Sunday night.

... and we have learned what I have known all along. Dude doesn't have the nads to be a top flight head coach. What an embarrassment.

In this case I really hate to be right but it's undeniable now.

Luv_ya_blue
10-14-2012, 11:16 PM
... and we have learned what I have known all along. Dude doesn't have the nads to be a top flight head coach. What an embarrassment.

In this case I really hate to be right but it's undeniable now.

Couldn't agree more.

Texecutioner
10-14-2012, 11:17 PM
... and we have learned what I have known all along. Dude doesn't have the nads to be a top flight head coach. What an embarrasment.

In this case I really hate to be right but it's undeniable now.

I wouldn't say that this one game proves that personally. The defense is who is getting owned the most here, but the offense doesn't seem capable of doing squat hardly in the passing game. I've been noticing this all season. We've had a few nice play action bombs, but not much else other then that. I've always felt this way about Kubiak, but I'm not to worried about losing to a Packers team that really needed a win. We can learn from this.

Hookem Horns
10-14-2012, 11:20 PM
I wouldn't say that this one game proves that personally.

Agreed, it would be this game plus the previous 5 or 6 years. Sorry if I was not clear about that.

eriadoc
10-14-2012, 11:21 PM
We can learn from this.

We could have learned from the first 5 or 6 years of Kubiak's tenure as well. What we'll learn is a different story altogether.

Texecutioner
10-14-2012, 11:25 PM
We could have learned from the first 5 or 6 years of Kubiak's tenure as well. What we'll learn is a different story altogether.

Well you know my history of posting pretty well and my thoughts on Kubiak have never been a secret. I'm just not to worried about this game since it was our defense that got owned and because it was against Rodgers when his team really needed a win.

AMartin56
10-14-2012, 11:41 PM
Does scripting our early plays lead to our slow starts offensively? Facing Rodgers you'd think we'd want to establish the run early but we came out throwing and then had to stay that way when we got down early.

Rey
10-15-2012, 12:18 AM
Does scripting our early plays lead to our slow starts offensively? Facing Rodgers you'd think we'd want to establish the run early but we came out throwing and then had to stay that way when we got down early.

I've seen some brilliant scripts by kubiak.

I'm not concerned there. My concern is the ability to consistently put pressure on defenses. We have the weapons to do that.

Every time a great offensive team gets the ball you feel like they are going to move the ball. You are on edge because they constantly put pressure on your defense.

We don't do that. We call a lot of plays that don't even make defenses sweat. Those ragedy ass screens we run every game, running Arian into the teeth of the defense, not using Tate or Forsett, not utilizing keyshawn in short space (although he showed some of that tonight).

The offense is good, but it's like he's missing the step on your throat chromosome when it comes to play calling. Put the damn pedal to the medal.

Say Watt
10-15-2012, 12:21 AM
... and we have learned what I have known all along. Dude doesn't have the nads to be a top flight head coach. What an embarrassment.

In this case I really hate to be right but it's undeniable now.

Yep. I couldn't agree more. I'm not necessarily saying he should be fired, but the end of the first half summed up Kubiak for me. There is over 30 seconds on the clock, we have three timeouts, and the chance to at least try and get in field goal range. And hell, what if Keshawn Martin returns one to the house? Does he not even want to give him the chance?!?

For me, Kubiak is just a p***y. He refuses to play to win. The only thing he knows how to do is play not to lose. It's just infuriating. I'm not saying that I don't think we can win with Gary Kubiak. But I am saying I'd feel a lot more comfortable if it were someone like Chucky.

eriadoc
10-15-2012, 12:22 AM
The offense is good, but it's like he's missing the step on your throat chromosome when it comes to play calling. Put the damn pedal to the medal.

That has not changed since he got here.

Texecutioner
10-15-2012, 12:48 AM
Yep. I couldn't agree more. I'm not necessarily saying he should be fired, but the end of the first half summed up Kubiak for me. There is over 30 seconds on the clock, we have three timeouts, and the chance to at least try and get in field goal range. And hell, what if Keshawn Martin returns one to the house? Does he not even want to give him the chance?!?

For me, Kubiak is just a p***y. He refuses to play to win. The only thing he knows how to do is play not to lose. It's just infuriating. I'm not saying that I don't think we can win with Gary Kubiak. But I am saying I'd feel a lot more comfortable if it were someone like Chucky.

I'm pretty confused here, because you just posted this below the other day in this thread.

I think Kubiak is a great offensive coordinator. I think he is a very good head coach. But I think he is a terrible defensive coach.

I don't think Kubiak is terrible and Wade saved his job; he just never had a decent defensive coordinator and Kubiak is a bit deficient on the defensive side of the ball.

What I like the most about Kubiak is the guy is a true player's coach. He never bad mouths players to the media, but he will let them have it behind closed doors. He will call guys out for not doing their job but when it comes to addressing the media, "It's all on me" is his reply. I hated this for the longest time because I thought that was why we were a bad team. But we now see we were a bad team because we had piss poor defensive coordinators that did not utilize the talent on this team, plus we had a rookie GM that was learning on the job as well.

So who is the real Kubiak? That answer is twofold. Gary Kubiak + a crap defensive coordinator is a bad head coach. Gary Kubiak + a good to great defensive coordinator is a good to potentially great head coach.

So which one is it? Do you think he is a good coach or a ***** of a HC? I'm sorry, but I just don't understand some of you guys that seem to jump back and forth on the fence with the guy with these extreme changes of opinions. Gary didn't change anything before this season or before this game. He is the same guy he was 3 years ago and 5 years ago. You either like his style of coaching or you don't. Kubiak is and always will be the same guy either way.

Bulls on Parade
10-15-2012, 12:53 AM
Getting out-coached by Dom Capers. Ugh.

Luv_ya_blue
10-15-2012, 07:28 AM
Getting out-coached by Dom Capers. Ugh.

Bologna.
If that makes you sleep better, fine.

More like:
Getting out-PLAYED by Aaron Rodgers & Clay Matthews.
I could see that one a whole lot easier.

HJam72
10-15-2012, 09:50 AM
People keep talking about his lack of a killer instinct, but chewing up clock when you have a lead kills an opponent quicker than anything. I know it's better to keep adding points, but that is not so guaranteed to happen as the clock running after your RB goes down. I also can't help thinking that the only game we've lost this year had nothing to do with "killer instinct" or lack thereof. Aaron Rodgers doesn't throw 6 TD passes against you because your offensive playcaller lacks a "killer instinct."

Now, you guys saying Kubiak is not a good HEAD COACH could be right, but I don't see the proof of it at all. I see that we got our butts handed to us last night on a Sunday night game right after a Monday night game. I know the whole team played badly, and I know that's ultimately on the HC, but so are the 5 wins to date.

Guess all I'm saying is take it with a grain of salt. We weren't the 72 Dolphins....and we're not the 2005 Texans either. I'm a lot more worried about Schaub's next injury and when it will happen than I am about ticky-tack ref. calls, Manning throwing, "Hey, got off my knee!" punches under the pile, and everything else that just made it one bad game.

We played like crap, the refs called it like crap, heck, the whole stadium was vagina pink. Sometimes, it just ain't your day.

LondonTex
10-15-2012, 10:24 AM
As relatively new Texans fan, why do fans dislike Kubiak (based on previous seasons)? Is this the general consensus among Texans fans? I quite like him and I also like Wade...I haven't followed the team for long enough to build an informed opinion yet. Cheers

steelbtexan
10-15-2012, 10:30 AM
I've seen some brilliant scripts by kubiak.

I'm not concerned there. My concern is the ability to consistently put pressure on defenses. We have the weapons to do that.

Every time a great offensive team gets the ball you feel like they are going to move the ball. You are on edge because they constantly put pressure on your defense.

We don't do that. We call a lot of plays that don't even make defenses sweat. Those ragedy ass screens we run every game, running Arian into the teeth of the defense, not using Tate or Forsett, not utilizing keyshawn in short space (although he showed some of that tonight).

The offense is good, but it's like he's missing the step on your throat chromosome when it comes to play calling. Put the damn pedal to the medal.

It's hard to be that kind of offense when you dont have playmakers at WR. (Excluding AJ) There's not another WR on the team that opposing defenses fear. A threat to score a TD at anytime.

The Packers have 4-5 of those kind of WR's. That was one of the biggest differences between the 2 offenses. (That and the greatnes of Rodgers)

Hookem Horns
10-15-2012, 10:36 AM
Here we go again with the "this loss is on me" line. We know it's on you Kubiak so you don't have to keep repeating that like a parrot after every loss.

IlliniJen
10-15-2012, 10:41 AM
Yep. I couldn't agree more. I'm not necessarily saying he should be fired, but the end of the first half summed up Kubiak for me. There is over 30 seconds on the clock, we have three timeouts, and the chance to at least try and get in field goal range. And hell, what if Keshawn Martin returns one to the house? Does he not even want to give him the chance?!?

For me, Kubiak is just a p***y. He refuses to play to win. The only thing he knows how to do is play not to lose. It's just infuriating. I'm not saying that I don't think we can win with Gary Kubiak. But I am saying I'd feel a lot more comfortable if it were someone like Chucky.

Guys, how is ANY of this different from a couple years ago?

Kubiak has shown the same tendencies for the last couple of years. Nothing has changed with his coaching philosophy and lack of game-day prowess. The only thing that has changed is Wade and the talent.

To me, the offense is very much a rhythm offense...if they can get in it, run the ball well, then the machine just starts running. The play action works, they can move the chains and score. But, if the offense is challenged, knocked around, thrown off their rhythm, they don't seem to have a response. They don't have a plan B or plan C to get the job done.

OMG...just heard on the radio right now a quote from Kubiak: it's on him, guys. The loss is on him.

I'm trying not to be a negative nelly...I'm telling myself that even great teams have ugly losses and hopefully we got all the ugly out last night for the season, but Kubes doesn't change. He's the smartest guy in the room...according to him. So why should he change?

If you can't make the changes at halftime to move to that plan B or plan C, you can't win tough games against good teams that are willing to do something different. If you're in a playoff game trailing at halftime, and the offense is stalling because the defense isn't letting them play their game, do you have any faith in Kubes that he can make winning adjustments?

I've been a fire Kubiak girl for a long time, but shut my mouth because success is success, regardless of the reason. I could start up again with my fire Kubiak drum beating, but it's not going to happen. We know what his limitations are...but since we're not a 6-10 team, there's no reason for McNair to make any changes.

We're a team with two great coordinators that can't make that mental leap to being a successful head coach. While we look unbeatable in some games, the lack of a great HC mentality is going to cost us in a big game sometime in the future. This wasn't a big game...it was one loss to bring us to 5-1. I worry about the post season. I worry that we can only go so far unless we get exceptionally lucky.

Double Barrel
10-15-2012, 11:33 AM
Who is the real Wade Phillips? :um:

Vinny
10-15-2012, 11:36 AM
Who is the real Wade Phillips? :um:

a guy who could use DeMeco back and an edge rush.

Double Barrel
10-15-2012, 11:44 AM
a guy who could use DeMeco back and an edge rush.

You ain't kidding about that. Our defense looks eerily similar to a lot of Wade's second-year-as-DC-defenses. I was trying to stay optimistic before the game that they could scheme away the loss of Cushing...but...ahhhh....not so much....

Dr. Aaron Rodgers was performing surgery on them like a paint-by-the-numbers operation. I'm not sure, but that may have been an accidental sex change out there. :runaway:

Vinny
10-15-2012, 11:49 AM
You ain't kidding about that. Our defense looks eerily similar to a lot of Wade's second-year-as-DC-defenses. I was trying to stay optimistic before the game that they could scheme away the loss of Cushing...but...ahhhh....not so much....

Putting Quinn in the box as a linebacker didn't work so well...didn't improve coverage and was useless vs the run.

silvrhand
10-15-2012, 11:50 AM
Once we went down 14 points the game got very one sided for us. I for the life of me do not know why we came out throwing the ball against a defense that had their star defensive guy out on the DL.

We should have come out running it down their throat, I would have been okay with 75%/25% run for the first 3-4 series, we went the other way..

Vinny
10-15-2012, 11:51 AM
Once we went down 14 points the game got very one sided for us. I for the life of me do not know why we came out throwing the ball against a defense that had their star defensive guy out on the DL.

We should have come out running it down their throat, I would have been okay with 75%/25% run for the first 3-4 series, we went the other way..
Kubiak reverting to the smartest guy in the room gameplans.

Playoffs
10-15-2012, 11:53 AM
As relatively new Texans fan, why do fans dislike Kubiak (based on previous seasons)? Is this the general consensus among Texans fans?No, it's only the consensus of a minority of "what have you done for me lately" temper tantrum types. Most fans woke up this morning happy to have a 5-1 record.

I quite like him and I also like Wade...I haven't followed the team for long enough to build an informed opinion yet. CheersI'm with you, I like them, too.

BlackFizz
10-15-2012, 12:00 PM
As a die hard Texans fan, i'm starting to get a bit confused. For years all i heard from Texan fans is that Kubes is inept. Most fans and local media called for his job after the 2010 season. I heard that he coaches not to lose. I heard that he is in over his head in big games, he cant call plays in the red zone, he has never utilized AJ in the red zone properly (lack of fade routes inside the 15 or ten against one on ones) ect.

This year i'm hearing that now he is the best play caller in the league. An offensive guru, the most creative play caller in all of football. He has all his weapons at his disposal now, so now the league will finally see what true offensive genius looks like.

I admit the 3rd down runs and draws do concern me. The first drive of the game was a thing of beauty. But we only kicked 3 field goals for the most part of three quarters.

So is he the creative offensive genius we see from time to time, or the Kubes who most wanted run out of town just just a season and a half ago??

Did Wade Phillips truly save and inept Kubiak's job?

Or is Kubiak an offensive genius, who just needed little help on defense?

Can someone help me figure out just who in the hell Kubiak really is??!!
I'm a newbie to this board. I appreciate the responses on either side of the argument to my first post. It has been pretty entertaining so far.

I originally posted this question for one reason only.

CAN KUBIAK LEAD US TO A SUPERBOWL VICTORY??

I've been a Texans/Oilers fan since the late 70's. I'm tired of moral victories. Tired of excuses. I just want the Lombardi trophy. So i think it may be time to put Kubes on the couch.

I think i understand what what our head coach is going through. We have lost so many close games over the years that now i think he is shell shocked. He is too afraid to put the ball in Schaub's hands in critical times during the games because i fear that he always fears the worst. When he "turtles", i think that has alot to do with the previous years of losing close games we should have won. So we see him going into this mental shell ( like before halftime of last night's game).His fear of something "bad" happening trumped what was an obvious move which was to call a timeout and try to get some points on the board before the half. He has become way too predictable in essence because of fear. He does'nt want to take a risk, like throwing the the ball down the field on third and long because of fear. He wouldn't dare go for it on that 4th and 2 and opted for the "iffy"51 yard field goal because of fear. I see the theme.

I don't think Kubiak is garbage by any stretch. He is going to have to let go of HIS issues and trust Schaub not to make a crucial mistake, especially when we are facing a dominant offense who can put up points on our defense.

I know Kubiak will be here for a long time. I hope he can get over his issues, so at least we have a shot at a superbowl victory in the near future. Like him or not, we have to ride with him as fans of the team. He just has to start trusting himself and Schaub more.

If he does then embarrassments like last night game wont raise the ire of Texans fans as much as it does.

Say Watt
10-15-2012, 12:13 PM
I'm pretty confused here, because you just posted this below the other day in this thread.



So which one is it? Do you think he is a good coach or a ***** of a HC? I'm sorry, but I just don't understand some of you guys that seem to jump back and forth on the fence with the guy with these extreme changes of opinions. Gary didn't change anything before this season or before this game. He is the same guy he was 3 years ago and 5 years ago. You either like his style of coaching or you don't. Kubiak is and always will be the same guy either way.

He has shown me over the last two weeks that he really hasn't changed as much as I would like to think. I don't think my shift was all that extreme. Over the last two weeks, and especially last night, our defense wasn't as dominating as it has been and when that happened, we saw our team fold. We saw Gary fold. Yes, Gary + Wade = a good head coach. But Gary by himself is a turtle. When things get scary, he shrivels back up into his shell. I was hoping he'd have changed by now and would have more confidence after the success the team has had. But he hasn't changed.

silvrhand
10-15-2012, 01:12 PM
Kubiak reverting to the smartest guy in the room gameplans.

:vincepalm:

LondonTex
10-15-2012, 01:35 PM
No, it's only the consensus of a minority of "what have you done for me lately" temper tantrum types. Most fans woke up this morning happy to have a 5-1 record.

I'm with you, I like them, too.

I'll be even happier with a 6-1 going into the bye! :)

dream_team
10-15-2012, 01:38 PM
Kubiak reverting to the smartest guy in the room gameplans.

Do you prefer a HC with confidence problems? Someone that doesn't have faith and believe in his system? In case you aren't aware, all head coaches in this league think their game plan is the best.

Vinny
10-15-2012, 02:43 PM
Kubiak reverting to the smartest guy in the room gameplans.

Do you prefer a HC with confidence problems? Someone that doesn't have faith and believe in his system? In case you aren't aware, all head coaches in this league think their game plan is the best.
"smartest guy in the room" isn't a "confidence problem". It's a lack of confidence problem. You don't think you can line up and beat the other team straight up so you try to out-trick them....that's what the "smartest guy in the room" thing means.

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 04:31 PM
He has shown me over the last two weeks that he really hasn't changed as much as I would like to think. I don't think my shift was all that extreme. Over the last two weeks, and especially last night, our defense wasn't as dominating as it has been and when that happened, we saw our team fold. We saw Gary fold. Yes, Gary + Wade = a good head coach. But Gary by himself is a turtle. When things get scary, he shrivels back up into his shell. I was hoping he'd have changed by now and would have more confidence after the success the team has had. But he hasn't changed.

Well, what are you thinking again now CKW? Lol!


I assume that your thoughts are the same as they were when you reverted back.

BlackFizz
12-30-2012, 04:37 PM
Well, what are you thinking again now CKW? Lol!


I assume that your thoughts are the same as they were when you reverted back.

Well, i guess my question has been answered. He is definitely not a guru, he should have been fired, and we will never win a superbowl with this guy at the helm.