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TexanFan881
06-01-2005, 09:04 PM
-- Mathis Could Replace Gaffney --
Tue May 31, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

CBS Sportsline reports Houston Texans coaches have raved about rookie WR Jerome Mathis, who has a chance to unseat veteran WR Jabar Gaffney as a starter. A fourth-round selection out of Hampton University, Mathis possesses incredible speed and could become a viable deep threat for quarterback David Carr in the pass attack. He might not have much value in drafts, but the speedster is one to watch as the regular season progresses.

If anything I would have thought that Mathis would be a third wideout but I don't think that he will beat out Gaffney. Who do you think would be the best number two wideout and post your comments.

TexansTrueFan
06-01-2005, 09:09 PM
I think he'll beat put Bradford for his spot, i mean he's aging, hands arent very good.

texanfan2002114
06-01-2005, 09:10 PM
I think in the future Mathis will be the Texans #2 but I don't want David to have to learn a new reciever next year. I like our corp of recievers and I believe they will do fine if David has time to throw the ball.

keyfro
06-01-2005, 10:10 PM
i think bradford will be the number two guy swapping gaffney in and out regularly...mathis might pull a glenn earl and replace them both halfway through the season...but to start the season it will be bradford

vtech9
06-01-2005, 11:26 PM
1) A. J.
2) Mathis/Armstrong
3) Armstrong/Mathis/Gaffney
4) Gaffney/Starling
5) Starling

I have my doubts about Bradford making the final roster.

TexasAggie
06-01-2005, 11:33 PM
I agree Bradford will have a hard time making the team. The Texans F.O. did not want him for anything more than the league minimum. :dangit:

ledzeppelin229
06-01-2005, 11:48 PM
The problem for Bradford is we have a lot of younger guys with more potential waiting to get playing time, and he isn't significantly better than any of them other than experience, which is why they need the PT.

ATX
06-02-2005, 12:08 AM
bradford will be here this year. hopefully he'll play better since he'll be a free agent next year if i'm correct.

ATX
06-02-2005, 12:21 AM
i agree , gaffney will be our #2. but it'll be bradford and armstrong battling for #3. mathis and starling can battle for #4. also, i wouldn't look past sloan thomas. i haven't heard much about him lately, but he may make the team and battle for that #4 spot.

mes311
06-02-2005, 12:38 AM
hopefully he'll play better since he'll be a free agent next year if i'm correct.


He was a free agent after last year too, and he didn't play any better.

mes311
06-02-2005, 12:39 AM
Swinton was signed as a kick returner also. He could battle for the 5th spot or maybe be the sixth guy.

Ibar_Harry
06-02-2005, 02:28 AM
Mathis is a guy like Bernard Berrian who David threw to in college. I think Mathis could be one of the biggest surprises this year. David likes to hit the quick elusive receiver with good hands with short passes. It gives the receiver a big advantage when he can take a missle from the QB as it gives the receiver the extra time and separation necessary to break away from the defenders. The defense has a harder time setting up against that type of attack particularly if the QB and the receiver can capitalize on the defense cheating.

YodAa
06-02-2005, 02:55 AM
Mathis will be our DD of the 2005 draft and he'll be starting at number 2 if hes good and consistent and if Gaffney doesn't improve.

jwag630
06-02-2005, 07:47 AM
Mathis will probably be better suited for the third spot behind Gaffney and in front of Bradford at least for his rookie year.

edo783
06-02-2005, 09:08 AM
Bradford will IMO, start out as the #2wr. It's the speed and experience thing. IF and it is a big if for a rookie, Mathis shows he can run routs well and catch the ball, he MIGHT wind up as the #2 by the end of the season. Gaff just doesn't have #2 speed. However, with the shorter timing routs that may not be as much of an issue as it has been. Gaff runs good routs, has good hands and can get open. The very same thing can be said for Armstrong also. It will be interesting to see if the posession type recievers become more important in the shorter rout, timing, quick deleiver scheme.

nunusguy
06-02-2005, 09:16 AM
I think Mathis could be one of the biggest surprises this year.
You think or you hope ? I hope you're right, but so far to me Mathis is still just a track guy on the football field. What he may or may not have done at Hampton doesn't meant squat, because that level of competition is so far
beneath what he'll see in the NFL there's really no way to accurately measure his ability to compete effectively at the higher level. When we start to see him in some preseason games against real NFL corners, then we may get an inkling of any upside he might have.

infantrycak
06-02-2005, 09:33 AM
I hope you're right, but so far to me Mathis is still just a track guy on the football field.

I don't want to get into a level of competition debate, but the "track guy on the football field" description of players is overused IMO. This isn't some guy (Corey Bradford--one year of college ball prior to going to the NFL) who didn't play football and was spotted on the track team and asked to come play speedy wideout. Mathis has played football back through HS including being an all-state WR and KR. Just because a player also runs track doesn't make them a track guy--for ex. Andre Johnson.

U4ikrob
06-02-2005, 09:33 AM
MY predictions - IMO think the Texans will carry 6 receivers next year. Palmer will put in the 5 receiver formations this year. Gaffney will stay at #2 as he is our second best possession receiver. Bradford will stay at #3 but split time with Mathis. Mathis and Starling will split time/compete at the #5 WR spot all year long. Mathis will return kickoffs or punts this year and get experience this year. NExt year Bradford will be let go and Mathis and Starling will battle out for #3 spot.

A sad but true factoid - Most of this is made possible by the subtraction of JJ moses from roster.

infantrycak
06-02-2005, 09:39 AM
MY predictions - IMO think the Texans will carry 6 receivers next year. Palmer will put in the 5 receiver formations this year. Gaffney will stay at #2 as he is our second best possession receiver. Bradford will stay at #3 but split time with Mathis. Mathis and Starling will split time/compete at the #5 WR spot all year long. Mathis will return kickoffs or punts this year and get experience this year. NExt year Bradford will be let go and Mathis and Starling will battle out for #3 spot.

A sad but true factoid - Most of this is made possible by the subtraction of JJ moses from roster.

Think you forgot Armstrong from the equation.

U4ikrob
06-02-2005, 10:22 AM
Yep Cak - I left out the #4 Receiver Armstrong as I feel he has solidified his position allready on the squad as the #4 guy and #3 possesion guy behind Andre and Gaffney.

I figure when the team goes to the "Hands" basic set - AJ, Gaffney, Armstrong and Miller come in. All Possession guys and Armstrong has decent enough speed to be the #3 guy in the set.

I figure when they go to the fly set [5 receivers] It looks like this AJ, Gaffney, Bradford, Armstrong, Mathis/Starling.

I figure Armstrong to be subbing in for Gaffney more than any other guy on the squad as he has almost as good hands.

What will be interesting to see is how many times they go to the hands set since we are going to be using more short dumps and timing routes this year on the Offense.

Porky
06-02-2005, 10:37 AM
The problem with our receiving corp is we have no legit #2. We have an excellent #1, and a a group of guys suited to the #3 slot position (Gaff, Armstrong), and another group suited to the #4 spot (Bradford, Starling, Mathis, Sloan.) Maybe Mathis will shock me and step right into the #2 spot, but I highly doubt it. He is very raw, and came from a tiny College. I like our depth alot at WR, but who is the legit #2 to help take the pressure and double teams away from AJ?

TopTexanFan16
06-02-2005, 10:39 AM
why would mathis what i thought to be a deep threat type reciever take gaffneys spot at slot?.....if anyone would take gaffney's spot at slot i would say armstrong.

nunusguy
06-02-2005, 10:44 AM
Mathis has played football back through HS including being an all-state WR and KR. Just because a player also runs track doesn't make them a track guy--for ex. Andre Johnson.
You, I, and the rest of the football fans in the country knew AJ was Co-MVP
of the Rose Bowl way back when he was a sophomore - his abilities and tremendous upside were establihed early on at the highest level of collegete competition. Nobody ever doubted he was a football player first and most of all and track, even though he was conference sprint champion, was strictly an incidental activity.
I appreciate knowing Mathis was an all-state football player, and that is something, but not too much as far as I'm concerned. I'm anxious to get a look at him in game type conditions. I know he's fast, but beyond that, I dunno....

infantrycak
06-02-2005, 10:54 AM
You, I, and the rest of the football fans in the country knew AJ was Co-MVP
of the Rose Bowl way back when he was a sophomore - his abilities and tremendous upside were establihed early on at the highest level of collegete competition. Nobody ever doubted he was a football player first and most of all and track, even though he was conference sprint champion, was strictly an incidental activity.
I appreciate knowing Mathis was an all-state football player, and that is something, but not too much as far as I'm concerned. I'm anxious to get a look at him in game type conditions. I know he's fast, but beyond that, I dunno....

That's getting at the distinction I was trying to make. There is a fair debate/concern over small school players. IMO there isn't a fair criticism/concern over his not being a football player.

Porky
06-02-2005, 11:03 AM
That's getting at the distinction I was trying to make. There is a fair debate/concern over small school players. IMO there isn't a fair criticism/concern over his not being a football player.

Although Cass is a great spin master who tends to talk out of both sides of his mouth at times, I agree with his statement when he said Mathis was a football player, who was also a track star, not a track star who was also a football player. For those old enough to remember, this is not a situation like when the Cowboys drafted Carl Lewis.

Vinny
06-02-2005, 11:59 AM
2wr, 3wr...numbers don't matter too much since Gaffney and Armstrong likely stay in the slot while Bradford/Mathis stay at the Z outside split out.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
06-02-2005, 12:27 PM
Cuz,

Bradford is toast... and he better know it as part of his financial planning. Why else did Houston draft a "not a track guy" like Mathis" for a speed play?

I see AJ, Gaffney and Mathis...

dhp

Porky
06-02-2005, 12:32 PM
2wr, 3wr...numbers don't matter too much since Gaffney and Armstrong likely stay in the slot while Bradford/Mathis stay at the Z outside split out.

It matter in 2 WR sets. If we run a doube TE set, or one TE and an i-formation set, then we only have two WR's on the field.

Vinny
06-02-2005, 12:38 PM
Well, we will play based on matchups, so I don't think it matters much. The guys have different skill sets and will be used for different matchups.

Ibar_Harry
06-02-2005, 02:17 PM
Although Cass is a great spin master who tends to talk out of both sides of his mouth at times, I agree with his statement when he said Mathis was a football player, who was also a track star, not a track star who was also a football player. For those old enough to remember, this is not a situation like when the Cowboys drafted Carl Lewis.

I would say "Hayes"..........

infantrycak
06-02-2005, 04:43 PM
I would say "Hayes"..........

Then I would say beeeep thanks for playing. Hayes affected the way the game is presently played and many think should be in the hall of fame. If anything he would be a poster child for tacking track stars and turning them into football players.

Lucky
06-02-2005, 04:58 PM
...I like our depth alot at WR, but who is the legit #2 to help take the pressure and double teams away from AJ?
Unless the Texans pickup Owens, Moss, or Harrison, AJ will see double teams. That's just a fact of life for great WRs. Jerry Rice saw double & triple teams during his salad years and still became the most prolific receiver the game will ever see. Jerry Rice would've been great if you had lined up on the other side, because Bill Walsh would have devised a scheme to get #80 the damn ball.

Want to know how to get the double teams off of AJ? Force the defense to blitz. That's how you get man coverage. If the Texans can pass block well enough against a 4 man rush, teams will bring the blitz. Then, the fun will begin.

wags
06-02-2005, 05:05 PM
Want to know how to get the double teams off of AJ? Force the defense to blitz. That's how you get man coverage. If the Texans can pass block well enough against a 4 man rush, teams will bring the blitz. Then, the fun will begin.

Exactly. Learn to pass protect first.

Porky
06-02-2005, 05:27 PM
Unless the Texans pickup Owens, Moss, or Harrison, AJ will see double teams. That's just a fact of life for great WRs. Jerry Rice saw double & triple teams during his salad years and still became the most prolific receiver the game will ever see. Jerry Rice would've been great if you had lined up on the other side, because Bill Walsh would have devised a scheme to get #80 the damn ball.

Want to know how to get the double teams off of AJ? Force the defense to blitz. That's how you get man coverage. If the Texans can pass block well enough against a 4 man rush, teams will bring the blitz. Then, the fun will begin.

Good points. Still, you can't help but wonder what a good #2 WR would do for AJ. Obviousely, pass protecting the QB forcing more blitzes would help, as would a dynamic RB. But, I still think a legit #2 who would demand alot more attention from defenses would also help AJ. The whole thing is sort of a symbiotic relationship, whereby each part enhances or subtracts from the other parts to form a whole...for better or worse. While I agree with your points, I don't think it subtracts from my own point.

TheGus
06-14-2005, 01:42 AM
Jerome Mathis was drafted by the Texas. Is he any good? of I remember correctly he was drafted in the 4th round, and if I also remember he is a WR. I want us to talk about the potential he has to make become a starter.

Big B Texan Fan
06-14-2005, 03:08 AM
Jerome Mathis was drafted by the Texas. Is he any good? of I remember correctly he was drafted in the 4th round, and if I also remember he is a WR. I want us to talk about the potential he has to make become a starter.
If he proves himself on Sp. Teams 1st. If he's a beast returning kicks (he should win that job) then the coaches will want him on the field more as a #2 or #3. He could even run reverses and end arounds. Remember, he's a football guy 1st. Not some track star learning to play football. He's also got a little jaw in 'em which is what this team could use a little bit of. Some good ole' trash talk. I look foward to seeing him on the field. He's gonna get ALOT of playing time in the pre-season so don't miss it. texanpride

William.carter
06-14-2005, 10:05 AM
You think or you hope ? I hope you're right, but so far to me Mathis is still just a track guy on the football field. What he may or may not have done at Hampton doesn't meant squat, because that level of competition is so far
beneath what he'll see in the NFL there's really no way to accurately measure his ability to compete effectively at the higher level. When we start to see him in some preseason games against real NFL corners, then we may get an inkling of any upside he might have.


You also have to take into account that we have one of the better corps of corners in the league right now... if he can hold his own in training camp and practice against these guys... who happen to be ultra competitive and give 110% on every down, practice or not... then I think that is a good indication of his potential to perform in the NFL.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
06-14-2005, 10:07 AM
How is there a disscussion about a guy that hasn't played a down of professional football... and a fourth rounder at that?

I was wondered why Armstrong doesn't get more time... he catches EVERYTHING. I assume he just doesn't get open. But no, Mathis is not going to replace Gaffney this year. Anybody want to guess how many passes Mathis is going to catch???
:confused:

rittenhouserobz
06-14-2005, 10:09 AM
Her is my presumption. Week 1 will have
#1: AJ
#2: Bradford
#3: Gaffney
#4: Armstrong
#5: Mathis
#6: Starling

by week 6
#1: AJ
#2: 50/50 Bradford/Mathis
#3: Gaffney
#4: Armstrong
#5: Starling

I think 50/50 because, Mathis is not as polished as say Armstrong or Gaffney. Mathis will have to play on the outside at least until he can read NFL zones and has solid route running. Since Bradford is not a slot reciever, I see the Texans splitting time with Bradford and Mathis by mid-season.

Big B Texan Fan
06-14-2005, 10:28 AM
How is there a disscussion about a guy that hasn't played a down of professional football... and a fourth rounder at that?

I was wondered why Armstrong doesn't get more time... he catches EVERYTHING. I assume he just doesn't get open. But no, Mathis is not going to replace Gaffney this year. Anybody want to guess how many passes Mathis is going to catch???
:confused:
9-15 with a TD not counting pre-season of course. Don't forget though that Dominick Davis was a 4th rounder who they expected to return kicks and be a 3rd down/situatiuonal/change of pace RB. Sounds eerily similar to what Mathis is faced with and is gonna be asked to do. On the Armstrong front, he is a Gaffney clone, good/great pair of hands, no speed or quicks what so ever, yet he is a practice marvel and that is what gets him noticed by the coaches and eventually on the field.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
06-14-2005, 11:45 AM
9-15 with a TD not counting pre-season of course. Don't forget though that Dominick Davis was a 4th rounder who they expected to return kicks and be a 3rd down/situatiuonal/change of pace RB. Sounds eerily similar to what Mathis is faced with and is gonna be asked to do. On the Armstrong front, he is a Gaffney clone, good/great pair of hands, no speed or quicks what so ever, yet he is a practice marvel and that is what gets him noticed by the coaches and eventually on the field.


So you don't see Mathis replacing Gaffney... with less than 20 catches. Neither do I.

Big B Texan Fan
06-14-2005, 01:49 PM
So you don't see Mathis replacing Gaffney... with less than 20 catches. Neither do I.
Ya know, he could actually get more than 20 now that I think about it, but he still won't be the #2, regardless of who it is Gaff or Brad. He does stretch the field though.

El Tejano
06-14-2005, 03:23 PM
Armstrong is also a pretty tough cookie who can go across the mid and is alot more physical than Gaff, but I still think Gaff beats out everyone.

TexanFan881
06-14-2005, 08:58 PM
I think Gaffney is a lock at two unless his injury is holding him back more than I thought. Armstrong will be our third wide reciever and Bradford and Mathis will be switching off at the fourth wide reciever. Next year I think Mathis and Armstrong will be switching off at third wide reciever.

Big B Texan Fan
06-15-2005, 03:50 AM
I think Gaffney is a lock at two unless his injury is holding him back more than I thought. Armstrong will be our third wide reciever and Bradford and Mathis will be switching off at the fourth wide reciever. Next year I think Mathis and Armstrong will be switching off at third wide reciever.
That'll leave us with very little speed on the field.