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CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2012, 10:18 PM
(on if RG Antoine Caldwell isn’t available then having G Brandon Brooks play) “He’s made progress. He’s made a lot of progress. He’s a better player now than he was when we left camp. He’s lighter. He’s worked really hard at his trade. We’re probably not going to know until he gets thrown in the spot, that type of thing. Is that this week? I don’t know. He’s disappointed he’s not part of what’s going on right now. He hasn’t been suiting, and that’s a good thing. That means he’s working hard to get ready to play.”link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Thursday-practice/ed3d689e-7f37-4f49-a892-41dd18e4582f)

Playoffs
10-04-2012, 10:33 PM
Next man up! :texflag:

:kingkong:

Insideop
10-04-2012, 10:37 PM
I wonder how many pounds he's lost? I know they wanted him to lose some weight to improve his endurance, but to me, he never looked "over weight" or out of shape in the photos and footage I've seen of him.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2012, 11:34 PM
I wonder how many pounds he's lost? I know they wanted him to lose some weight to improve his endurance, but to me, he never looked "over weight" or out of shape in the photos and footage I've seen of him.

At the combine, he weighed in at 346. He was told to lose weight before OTAs. He came in at 352. Kubiak was upset. They wanted him at 330.

badboy
10-04-2012, 11:44 PM
link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Thursday-practice/ed3d689e-7f37-4f49-a892-41dd18e4582f)How is not suiting up a good thing? If he was working hard, would he not be in uniform getting some plays? I think Brooks is in Kubes dog house for eating too much kibbles and bits. Gary is throwing him a bone but with little meat on it.

Brooks and Posey need to bring it next season.

CloakNNNdagger
10-04-2012, 11:54 PM
How is not suiting up a good thing? If he was working hard, would he not be in uniform getting some plays? I think Brooks is in Kubes dog house for eating too much kibbles and bits. Gary is throwing him a bone but with little meat on it.

Brooks and Posey need to bring it next season.

With Caldwell already playing with a bum ankle after playing through bilateral high ankle sprains last year, Brooks is obviously Kubiak's next man up and will likely be used sooner than later.

badboy
10-05-2012, 12:06 AM
With Caldwell already playing with a bum ankle after playing through bilateral high ankle sprains last year, Brooks is obviously Kubiak's next man up and will likely be used sooner than later.Yep, I want him on the field & against Jets may be good for him. He has had time to get into NFL shape.

76Texan
10-05-2012, 12:23 AM
I wonder how many pounds he's lost? I know they wanted him to lose some weight to improve his endurance, but to me, he never looked "over weight" or out of shape in the photos and footage I've seen of him.

Agree, he didn't look overweight in all the games I watched him play in college and he didn't look overweight in PS either.

But if he can keep it down further, he will be all the better on cut blocks, on pulls and on the second level.

76Texan
10-05-2012, 12:26 AM
How is not suiting up a good thing? If he was working hard, would he not be in uniform getting some plays? I think Brooks is in Kubes dog house for eating too much kibbles and bits. Gary is throwing him a bone but with little meat on it.

Brooks and Posey need to bring it next season.

Make him more hungry?

Errrh, bad choice of words! :gun:

The Pencil Neck
10-05-2012, 12:48 AM
How is not suiting up a good thing?

Not suiting up wasn't a good thing. His being pissed off about not suiting up was a good thing.

GP
10-05-2012, 01:31 AM
He has to develop a mean streak like Duane Brown possesses.

The game might be too big for him right now, so he has to flip a switch and own the moment if he gets it. My fear is that he has the size and the basic skill set...but lacks the snap-to-snap killer instinct due to his age and inexperience in the NFL.

IF he can find that inner badass, he is going to straight up MAUL opposing linemen. Teams would freak out if they had to face a line of Duane Brown, Wade Smith/Jones, Myers, Jones/Brooks, and Newton. That's almost criminal.

Wolf6151
10-05-2012, 02:47 AM
CND, Thanks for the story and link. That's some excellent news. I'm glad to hear that Brooks sounds mad about not suiting up and sounds like he's got a good work ethic going on so that he can get out there. He'll make some mistakes in the beginning but that's just part of learning and growing into the position. Hopefully he can get some playing time soon and get those rookie mistakes out of the way this year because I firmly believe that Brooks is the future of the RG spot for the Texans.


I just wish I had as much confidence in Newton at RT. We'll see.

kiwitexansfan
10-05-2012, 02:50 AM
That is pretty exciting, with Jones, Caldwell and Brooks that is a good guard rotation for when we don't resign Smith.

NastyNate
10-05-2012, 04:34 AM
He has to develop a mean streak like Duane Brown possesses.

The game might be too big for him right now, so he has to flip a switch and own the moment if he gets it. My fear is that he has the size and the basic skill set...but lacks the snap-to-snap killer instinct due to his age and inexperience in the NFL.

IF he can find that inner badass, he is going to straight up MAUL opposing linemen. Teams would freak out if they had to face a line of Duane Brown, Wade Smith/Jones, Myers, Jones/Brooks, and Newton. That's almost criminal.


Why would they freak out about a rookie guard? Seriously GP, your logic is so flawed here. :vincepalm:

Carr Bombed
10-05-2012, 04:48 AM
Why would they freak out about a rookie guard? Seriously GP, your logic is so flawed here. :vincepalm:

???

Lucky
10-05-2012, 07:25 AM
That is pretty exciting, with Jones, Caldwell and Brooks that is a good guard rotation for when we don't resign Smith.
Smith is signed through 2013. Caldwell will be a FA after this season.

He has to develop a mean streak like Duane Brown possesses.

The game might be too big for him right now, so he has to flip a switch and own the moment if he gets it. My fear is that he has the size and the basic skill set...but lacks the snap-to-snap killer instinct due to his age and inexperience in the NFL.
You do realize that you are just making stuff up, right? Brooks has been criticized by Kubiak for weight and stamina. Not his make up. A total fabrication.

welsh texan
10-05-2012, 07:58 AM
I'm excited for the future about these kids on the oline, it seems as if when the likes of Myers and Briesel came in they had to do almost all of their learning on the job as starters.

We've got the luxury of letting these guys sit and learn and throwing them out there as the coaching staff want. It can only be a good thing.

I know Newton is getting some stick right now but lets just remember this guy was a 7th round pick playing tackle in the NFL, it seems the coaches may have favoured Butler to start this season due to experience, so lets give the guy a chance to develop. I'm sure we'll be drafting at the position in the offseason anyway to keep the production line moving.

Rey
10-05-2012, 08:24 AM
I wonder how many pounds he's lost? I know they wanted him to lose some weight to improve his endurance, but to me, he never looked "over weight" or out of shape in the photos and footage I've seen of him.

He didn't look out of shape, but when you are that big you will get fatigued faster than if you lose some weight. 330 is plenty big enough.

Rey
10-05-2012, 08:27 AM
He has to develop a mean streak like Duane Brown possesses.

The game might be too big for him right now, so he has to flip a switch and own the moment if he gets it. My fear is that he has the size and the basic skill set...but lacks the snap-to-snap killer instinct due to his age and inexperience in the NFL.

IF he can find that inner badass, he is going to straight up MAUL opposing linemen. Teams would freak out if they had to face a line of Duane Brown, Wade Smith/Jones, Myers, Jones/Brooks, and Newton. That's almost criminal.

You realize he is known for his physicality and aggressiveness right?

Hard to show that when you aren't sure if what you're doing.

Insideop
10-05-2012, 09:47 AM
He didn't look out of shape, but when you are that big you will get fatigued faster than if you lose some weight. 330 is plenty big enough.

Yes, I realize that, but how much has he lost? Is he staying in the "doghouse" because he isn't losing the weight, or has he lost the weight and it's just a numbers game now with Jones and Caldwell ahead of him? To me, he has more upside than Jones because of his athletic ability and size, but was behind Jones in actual development as a player due to Jones playing in the SEC and Brooks playing at Miami (Ohio). My guess is we won't see him this year unless there is an injury situation, like Caldwell now, or we wrap up the division early and Kubes starts playing a lot of the 2nd and 3rd string late in the season.

HOU-TEX
10-05-2012, 09:56 AM
IIRC, last week Kubiak said he'd lost about 15 lbs. I'm not sure where his actual weight is now though

b0ng
10-05-2012, 11:19 AM
IIRC, last week Kubiak said he'd lost about 15 lbs. I'm not sure where his actual weight is now though

Judging by what the article posted further up said, that must be the weight they wanted him to target.

beerlover
10-05-2012, 12:21 PM
Texans have learned not to throw a rookie into the fire until ready. Brooks is a talent who has to develop & cover his assignments. I can't see him beating Jones out, unless of another injury. Caldwell has been an under performer, but in his defense he seems constantly hampered by nagging injury's & his natural position is Center which he played well @ Alabama. Brooks can play RT too if his weight drops so he can maintain his stamina, which has been the real issue.

Goldensilence
10-05-2012, 12:42 PM
Good news on Brooks in that he seems to be catching on far as weight and game speed. I didn't think he would likely be ready for a starting spot this season, but physically the guy has the tools you want in dominant guard. It's good to hear he's eager to get on the field and hasn't been happy about being unsuited on the sidelines. While he might have the frame of a RT, I just don't get why people would even consider the idea if he hasn't even learned to play G at the NFL level yet.

Jones was a great draft pick and with his experience in the SEC and some big time DTs he is probably more ready to play.

I feel good about those two moving forward overall.

I've always felt a bit bad for Caldwell, guy was an All-American center and when Myers caught on at center FT (also got some much better guard play) he was shifted to G. I think he's probably a better fit at center and if he's a FA this next year it wouldn't surprise me to see him sign elsewhere to try and move back to C.

76Texan
10-05-2012, 01:30 PM
Good news on Brooks in that he seems to be catching on far as weight and game speed. I didn't think he would likely be ready for a starting spot this season, but physically the guy has the tools you want in dominant guard. It's good to hear he's eager to get on the field and hasn't been happy about being unsuited on the sidelines. While he might have the frame of a RT, I just don't get why people would even consider the idea if he hasn't even learned to play G at the NFL level yet.



Regarding Brooks, I have some question for the FO.
They drafted him at that weight, right?
They knew what they're getting.
It wasn's his fault for being at that weight (whatever he was playing in college at).

But as a mid-round draft pick, the Texans "have the right" to say that if you want to get on the field (instead of being a career back-up), we want you to loose some weight.

Another team, like New Orleans, for example, with Carl Nicks at some 343 lbs at Guard, may not having much problem with Brooks' weight.
But of course, since we're a zone blocking team, so we want our guys to be as fit and trim as possible.

76Texan
10-05-2012, 01:41 PM
I've always felt a bit bad for Caldwell, guy was an All-American center and when Myers caught on at center FT (also got some much better guard play) he was shifted to G. I think he's probably a better fit at center and if he's a FA this next year it wouldn't surprise me to see him sign elsewhere to try and move back to C.

I like Ben Jones for the long term, but I think Caldwell has been progressing OK, except for the injuries.

He came back last year and played quite solidly when Brisiel was out.
And now he has another setback.

An O-lineman who cannot stay on the field may not earn much as far as contract goes. Who knows, he may very well resign with us next year. I wouldn't mind that.

76Texan
10-05-2012, 02:15 PM
Here's an interesting article that I found:

http://www.sportsnola.com/sports/sports-blogs/rene-nadeau/585378-size-matters-sometimes-a-look-at-college-footballs-offensive-lines.html

It looks like the trend of the big O-linemen has been reversing, albeit not by very much.

And I quote:

"So, you think that athletes are getting bigger, stronger and faster. Well, part of that statement is a misconception, of sort.

Players competing to excel in all sports are certainly showing the results that would indicate that today's athlete is faster and stronger than their predecessors. But the bigger part? Actually, the average size of college football offensive linemen is shrinking.

About five seasons ago, the average O-lineman in college football was a little over 304 pounds per man. Back in the late '90's, the standard size was in the 307 pound range.
....

The average starter in college football in 2012 is 302.8 lbs. per man.
...

I know what you're wondering. What does this all mean and which teams (and conferences) are the biggest today? Well, here are the facts.

The SEC is the heaviest conference on the O-line per team with an average weight of 307.54 lbs. per team (averaged 8 wins per team in 2011, 2nd most of any conference)
The ACC is 2nd with a 305.15 average (averaged 6.5 wins per team last season)
The Big 12 303.58 lbs.(averaged 8.4 wins per team last season, most of any conference)
The Big Ten with a 301.5 average (with 7.3 wins per team in 2011)
The Big East 300.5 lbs. (7 wins per member in 2011)
Sun Belt 300.2 lbs. (5.5 wins per team)
PAC Ten 299.95 lbs. (6.75 wins per team)
Conference USA 299.43 lbs. average.(6.1 wins per team)
Mid American 299.27 lbs. (5.6 wins per team)
Western Athletic 293.57 lbs. (5.1 wins in 2011)
Mountain West 293.4 lbs. (5.8 wins per team last fall)
Independents 289.3 (including Army and Navy; 6.5 wins per member)."

ItsMyFault
10-05-2012, 03:30 PM
Does this mean Caldwell is already ruled out for Monday's game?

Goldensilence
10-05-2012, 03:48 PM
Regarding Brooks, I have some question for the FO.
They drafted him at that weight, right?
They knew what they're getting.
It wasn's his fault for being at that weight (whatever he was playing in college at).

But as a mid-round draft pick, the Texans "have the right" to say that if you want to get on the field (instead of being a career back-up), we want you to loose some weight.

Another team, like New Orleans, for example, with Carl Nicks at some 343 lbs at Guard, may not having much problem with Brooks' weight.
But of course, since we're a zone blocking team, so we want our guys to be as fit and trim as possible.

I guess the biggest question I would have is what weight he played at Miami (OH) vs what he showed up to TC as. Which is what I think is the problem is and why he was in the doghouse a bit.

I like Ben Jones for the long term, but I think Caldwell has been progressing OK, except for the injuries.

He came back last year and played quite solidly when Brisiel was out.
And now he has another setback.

An O-lineman who cannot stay on the field may not earn much as far as contract goes. Who knows, he may very well resign with us next year. I wouldn't mind that.

We both agree on Ben Jones being more long term and with Wade Smith's contract coming up soon could be transitioning both G positions. Question for Caldwell is going to be does he want to compete for a possible G position or find another team where he could go back to C. If he resigns I don't see a big cap hit.

badboy
10-05-2012, 04:03 PM
Not suiting up wasn't a good thing. His being pissed off about not suiting up was a good thing.We do not know that. The quote was He’s disappointed he’s not part of what’s going on right now.

badboy
10-05-2012, 04:11 PM
That is pretty exciting, with Jones, Caldwell and Brooks that is a good guard rotation for when we don't resign Smith.actually it is not. Caldwell has not played good. This is his last contract year & I'd be stunned if he is offered a new deal. Both rookies have to play very well for us not to draft RT/RG high.

The Pencil Neck
10-05-2012, 04:12 PM
We do not know that. The quote was He’s disappointed he’s not part of what’s going on right now.

Which I translate from the CoachSpeak as being, "He's pissed off and he wants to play." Kubiak thought it was a good thing, this "disappointment." If the kid is just "disappointed" with the regular connotations of that word, then it's not a good thing because then he's a *****. For Kubiak to think it's a good thing, then it means he's really saying the kid is pissed off and fired up and working hard trying to get on the field and be a part of it. Otherwise, it's not a good thing.

badboy
10-05-2012, 04:12 PM
Why would they freak out about a rookie guard? Seriously GP, your logic is so flawed here. :vincepalm:What are you talking about? Good Guard play is essential in our offense.

Goldensilence
10-05-2012, 04:52 PM
What are you talking about? Good Guard play is essential in our offense.

I think the OP was referring to someone being scared of an untested rookie G.

drs23
10-05-2012, 04:58 PM
actually it is not. Caldwell has not played good. This is his last contract year & I'd be stunned if he is offered a new deal. Both rookies have to play very well for us not to draft RT/RG high.

How high though? By high is that 3rd rnd? If so I can see that. See: Brooks, Caldwell. The rest of the line guys are 6ths & 7ths with Jones coming in the 4th as the 2nd in that round. I don't see Rick Smith throwing a second at the line when it's been proven in excess that we can get players in the late rounds that can start for us. I say a 2nd 'cause we all KNOW that Wade gets the 1st. :D (kinda)

76Texan
10-05-2012, 05:23 PM
actually it is not. Caldwell has not played good. This is his last contract year & I'd be stunned if he is offered a new deal. Both rookies have to play very well for us not to draft RT/RG high.

To me he has done OK. The only guys that graded better than him, for me, are Myers and Brown. It's kinda somewhat close to call among Wade Smith, Newton, and Caldwell (considering we can't be sure what they are supposed to do on every snaps).

Jones is still raw and therefore inconsistent.
Harris doesn't have enough snaps to be evaluated fairly.

And what do you mean by both rookies having to play well for us not to draft RG/RT?

Who is the rookie at RT?

CloakNNNdagger
10-05-2012, 06:09 PM
Wade Smith has not practiced in the past 2 days. He had his knee drained yesterday.

GP
10-05-2012, 06:16 PM
You do realize that you are just making stuff up, right? Brooks has been criticized by Kubiak for weight and stamina. Not his make up. A total fabrication.


Slow down, sparky. You and rey's reading comprehension fluid levels are running a quart low.

I said he has the talent/skill set. His ability to harness that is lacking. I don't know what preseason games you were watching, but he's not nearly close enough to be this guy a lot of you are expecting him to be.

Right now, he needs to just be around the game and soak it in. I don't want him out there this year.

Kubiak takes a guy every so often, a guy who has crazy wicked upside, and Brooks is that guy. He's bigger than what Kubiak has used in the ZBS. He's the latest project pick.

Jacoby, then Holliday, and now Brooks. All three guys, IF they hit their potential...end up being phenomenal players for where they're picked and what skill set they possess.

And so far, Jacoby's gone, Holliday is getting his chance now, and Brooks will be that guy in 2013.

The Kool Aid is strong with a lot of you on Brandon Brooks. I personally think he is a project pick. No use in me trying to elaborate any further, though. You guys get back to salivating over his size.

That first twitch action at the snap looked suspect in preseason. If he gets a head of steam, yeah he's a beast. At the snap, he needs a lot of progress there IMO. I hope our season doesn't come down to Brooks pass blocking for Schaub. That's all.

badboy
10-05-2012, 09:47 PM
I think the OP was referring to someone being scared of an untested rookie G.
GP speaking about Brooks said he needed to get a nasty going on and let that be his inner self (which I happen to agree with). Nasty Nate said who would be afraid of an OG. GP was not talking about an untested rookie but a rookie with all the skills bringing out his toughness & wanting to dominate his opponent. At least that is how I interpreted GP. I guess if I'm wrong he will come in and set me straight.

badboy
10-05-2012, 09:58 PM
How high though? By high is that 3rd rnd? If so I can see that. See: Brooks, Caldwell. The rest of the line guys are 6ths & 7ths with Jones coming in the 4th as the 2nd in that round. I don't see Rick Smith throwing a second at the line when it's been proven in excess that we can get players in the late rounds that can start for us. I say a 2nd 'cause we all KNOW that Wade gets the 1st. :D (kinda)If Newton doesn't do well, Harris better be outstanding as replacement or Kubes will draft OT no later than second & maybe trade up. With OG different story because of how well Jones is doing. If Brooks doesn't come along I see an OG not later than 3rd and maybe a trade up. He has used a third and 5th to move into second before.

Using Brooks and Caldwell as your examples is not very encouraging to me. lol

You want a Duane Brown or a maybe good Newton or Gardner? We are good spot to go to Super Bowl and have a dynasty type team; spend the higher pick to get the better odds player.

badboy
10-05-2012, 10:03 PM
To me he has done OK. The only guys that graded better than him, for me, are Myers and Brown. It's kinda somewhat close to call among Wade Smith, Newton, and Caldwell (considering we can't be sure what they are supposed to do on every snaps).

Jones is still raw and therefore inconsistent.
Harris doesn't have enough snaps to be evaluated fairly.

And what do you mean by both rookies having to play well for us not to draft RG/RT?

Who is the rookie at RT?Although by CBA Newton is a vet second year guy, he has only 17 snaps on Oline 2011. I think most fans believe Jones is outplaying Caldwell this year.

badboy
10-05-2012, 10:06 PM
Wade Smith has not practiced in the past 2 days. He had his knee drained yesterday.very helpful info doc and supports the rumors last season.

Premier
10-05-2012, 10:20 PM
I think

stop thinking...

badboy
10-05-2012, 10:49 PM
stop thinking...Comes across as an insult Premier. Say what you mean and do not be so vague.

SAMURAITEXAN
10-05-2012, 11:42 PM
Wade Smith has not practiced in the past 2 days. He had his knee drained yesterday.

Doc, how long it takes to recover fully from knee drain? A day or two?

CloakNNNdagger
10-06-2012, 12:39 AM
Doc, how long it takes to recover fully from knee drain? A day or two?

It's not the recovery from a knee drain that you primarily worry about. That can be 48 to 72 hours, if it doesn't recur. What you really have to be concerned about is what is the CAUSE of the knee effusion (fluid). The most common causes would be a meniscus tear or a knee ligament sprain. And, of course the third would be arthritis. A knee ligament sprain probably carries the best immediate prognosis, but needs rest. A meniscus tear depending on type and severity can sometimes be conservatively treated with rest and rehab, but eventually requires surgery. If the fluid re-accumulates following drainage, you know that the offending anatomic problem has not been healed (sprain) or overcome (meniscus). And arthritis will be progressive. They should have an idea by now what the source of the fluid is. They will watch his progress as far as if the fluid rebuilds and if other signs and symptoms appear or resolve to determine the approach to allowing him to play. Of course, they could choose to ignore the body messages and try to see if he can physically play through the problem. That approach may stop gap, but it seldom ultimately leads to the long-term good of the player or the team.

76Texan
10-06-2012, 12:55 AM
Although by CBA Newton is a vet second year guy, he has only 17 snaps on Oline 2011. I think most fans believe Jones is outplaying Caldwell this year.OK, so let's give you the part about two rookies.

...
I don't know how you know it, the part about Jones outplaying Caldwell as a general thought of "most fans". Are you Obama? J/K

At any rate, in my eyes, Jones has not done that.
He has not outplayed Caldwell.
I always believe that the best man should win the job.
And right now, Caldwell is the better man.

SAMURAITEXAN
10-06-2012, 01:29 AM
It's not the recovery from a knee drain that you primarily worry about. That can be 48 to 72 hours, if it doesn't recur. What you really have to be concerned about is what is the CAUSE of the knee effusion (fluid). The most common causes would be a meniscus tear or a knee ligament sprain. And, of course the third would be arthritis. A knee ligament sprain probably carries the best immediate prognosis, but needs rest. A meniscus tear depending on type and severity can sometimes be conservatively treated with rest and rehab, but eventually requires surgery. If the fluid re-accumulates following drainage, you know that the offending anatomic problem has not been healed (sprain) or overcome (meniscus). And arthritis will be progressive. They should have an idea by now what the source of the fluid is. They will watch his progress as far as if the fluid rebuilds and if other signs and symptoms appear or resolve to determine the approach to allowing him to play. Of course, they could choose to ignore the body messages and try to see if he can physically play through the problem. That approach may stop gap, but it seldom ultimately leads to the long-term good of the player or the team.
Thank you for info as always Doc. You would think its more of lighter side of injury and hearing from Doc really make you think twice about injury. Again, thank you.

Go Texans!!!

steelbtexan
10-06-2012, 12:44 PM
OK, so let's give you the part about two rookies.

...
I don't know how you know it, the part about Jones outplaying Caldwell as a general thought of "most fans". Are you Obama? J/K

At any rate, in my eyes, Jones has not done that.
He has not outplayed Caldwell.
I always believe that the best man should win the job.
And right now, Caldwell is the better man.

Right now Caldwell is going to be out for awhile. So right now Jones is the better option. Caldwell has chronic ankle problems. IMHO (Doc could speak better about this) So it would be foolish to count on Caldwell to be your starting RG.

Caldwell and Jones have played about the same so far this yr. IMHO Jones has a much better upside and should be the much better RG by the end of the season.

Jones is a smart tough player. He is the future of the Texans interior OL. Caldwell not so much, BTW Brooks is a stud that just needs to learn what it takes to be a professional football player. The reason Brooks has been inactive is the Texans have only been playing 7 guys on gameday. Jones is the OG/C backup and Harris OT backup.

badboy
10-06-2012, 04:45 PM
OK, so let's give you the part about two rookies.

...
I don't know how you know it, the part about Jones outplaying Caldwell as a general thought of "most fans". Are you Obama? J/K

At any rate, in my eyes, Jones has not done that.
He has not outplayed Caldwell.
I always believe that the best man should win the job.
And right now, Caldwell is the better man.My comment on most fans should be qualified as most fans I have contact with or read about or hear about. My take on comments posted in this forum by fans is most think Jones is better than Caldwell. I know fans in my social sphere think Jones is playing better.

You have your opinion on RG and I have mine.

Sir, never confuse me with Obama in any manner! lol

76Texan
10-07-2012, 01:51 AM
Right now Caldwell is going to be out for awhile. So right now Jones is the better option. Caldwell has chronic ankle problems. IMHO (Doc could speak better about this) So it would be foolish to count on Caldwell to be your starting RG.

Caldwell and Jones have played about the same so far this yr. IMHO Jones has a much better upside and should be the much better RG by the end of the season.

Jones is a smart tough player. He is the future of the Texans interior OL. Caldwell not so much, BTW Brooks is a stud that just needs to learn what it takes to be a professional football player. The reason Brooks has been inactive is the Texans have only been playing 7 guys on gameday. Jones is the OG/C backup and Harris OT backup.

Texans coach Gary Kubiak addressed the media on Saturday following the team's final practice in preparation for the New York Jets on Monday Night Football.
Head Coach Gary Kubiak
(opening statement) “Practice-wise, (RB Ben) Tate did practice. (RG Antoine) Caldwell did practice. I would rule out (WR) Lestar Jean and (FS Quintin) Demps as of today, but Caldwell is definitely ready to go. I’ll go back and look at Tate. I expect him to go but I am very comfortable with (RB) Justin (Forsett) and the practices he’s had if he’s our two in the game. He will do a good job for us. We’ll see.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Saturday-practice/f4dc8d41-3f18-4241-b964-30561400f0cd

I've already said many times that I like Ben Jones better as a prospect out of college.
However, as of right now, I still see Caldwell as the better player on the field, despite playing with some kind of injury to his knee and ankle.
He was already listed with an ankle injury before the Jaguars game.
Kubiak liked him enough to make him the starter.

I'm not a team doctor, so I can't comment on his injuries, whether they will be recurring or not. I won't label him injury-prone just like I didn't label Schaub as such some years back.

All I can comment on is his plays.
We have been moving the ball better with Caldwell than with Jones.
Take the number of subpar plays divided by the total number of snaps a player took and one can see that Caldwell's ratio is better.

Or you can go back and find one of Kubiak's presser; you will find that Kubiak did note that Jones played "like a young guy, like a rookie."
That pretty much sums it up.

76Texan
10-07-2012, 01:54 AM
My comment on most fans should be qualified as most fans I have contact with or read about or hear about. My take on comments posted in this forum by fans is most think Jones is better than Caldwell. I know fans in my social sphere think Jones is playing better.

You have your opinion on RG and I have mine.

Sir, never confuse me with Obama in any manner! lol
Well, if Jones is playing like a rookie, the way Kubiak put it, and Caldwell is playing not as well (at the same time that Newton also his bumps) I don't see how we can move the ball and score the way we've been doing.

And I'm sorry I didn't know that you look prettier than Obama! :)

Playoffs
10-07-2012, 12:10 PM
ProFootballFocus' take on our Guards.

....Snaps Overall PassBlock ScreenBlock RunBlock Penalty #ofPen QBSk QBHt QBHu
Wade Smith ..........289 0.9 -1.6 -1.0 2.2 1.3 0-0 1 4 3
Ben Jones.............115 -2.8 -1.6 0.0 -0.7 -0.5 1-1 0 1 2
Antoine Caldwell.....174 -3.9 -1.1 0.0 -3.6 0.8 0-0 1 0 5

They rank in order 24/70, 48/70, 50/70 of all NFL guards getting at least 25% of team snaps.

CloakNNNdagger
10-07-2012, 12:30 PM
ProFootballFocus' take on our Guards.

....Snaps Overall PassBlock ScreenBlock RunBlock Penalty #ofPen QBSk QBHt QBHu
Wade Smith ..........289 0.9 -1.6 -1.0 2.2 1.3 0-0 1 4 3
Ben Jones.............115 -2.8 -1.6 0.0 -0.7 -0.5 1-1 0 1 2
Antoine Caldwell.....174 -3.9 -1.1 0.0 -3.6 0.8 0-0 1 0 5

They rank in order 24/70, 48/70, 50/70 of all NFL guards getting at least 25% of team snaps.

Thanks for stats. BTW, love the way you color coded to try to make those dang offset cut and paste stats more readable.

76Texan
10-07-2012, 04:02 PM
ProFootballFocus' take on our Guards.

....Snaps Overall PassBlock ScreenBlock RunBlock Penalty #ofPen QBSk QBHt QBHu
Wade Smith ..........289 0.9 -1.6 -1.0 2.2 1.3 0-0 1 4 3
Ben Jones.............115 -2.8 -1.6 0.0 -0.7 -0.5 1-1 0 1 2
Antoine Caldwell.....174 -3.9 -1.1 0.0 -3.6 0.8 0-0 1 0 5

They rank in order 24/70, 48/70, 50/70 of all NFL guards getting at least 25% of team snaps.

I find it's hard to justify Ben Jones grades.

His overall grade is -2.8.
Based on Football Outsiders, his snap counts were as followed:
- 38 offensive snaps in week 2
- 29 in week 3
- 47 in week 4

Now, in week 4, PFF gave him a grade of -5.4 (on 47 snaps).

"Making life as easy as they could for quarterback Matt Schaub (+2.8), the Texans’ offensive line was nearly flawless in pass protection. Only right guard Ben Jones (-5.4) finished the game with a negative grade and he was also the only Houston lineman to allow any pressure (one hit and two hurries)."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/10/01/refo-titans-texans-week-4/

That means he has to grade out at 8.2 in week 2 and 3 (on 67 snaps) to bring his score up to -2.8

That means he would have stood out such that PFF would have named him in a very positive ways in those two weeks, but they didn't.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/17/refo-texans-jaguars-week-2/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-texans-broncos-week-3/

76Texan
10-07-2012, 04:11 PM
ProFootballFocus' take on our Guards.

....Snaps Overall PassBlock ScreenBlock RunBlock Penalty #ofPen QBSk QBHt QBHu
Wade Smith ..........289 0.9 -1.6 -1.0 2.2 1.3 0-0 1 4 3
Ben Jones.............115 -2.8 -1.6 0.0 -0.7 -0.5 1-1 0 1 2
Antoine Caldwell.....174 -3.9 -1.1 0.0 -3.6 0.8 0-0 1 0 5

They rank in order 24/70, 48/70, 50/70 of all NFL guards getting at least 25% of team snaps.

Note that the majority (2/3) of Caldwell's grade (-2.6) was in the first game, against the Dolphins.
Their strength were in the two interior guys.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/10/re-focused-dolphins-texans-week-1/

If Jones had played in this game, it's pretty much a given that he wouldn't have received a good grade.

Secondly, the Texans "protected" Jones quite a bit, especially in his first two appearances.
In the passing game, he received plenty of help.
In the running game, the combo block tend to stay with him a little longer.
On other occasions, he was asked to go to the second level or to cut block (more than Caldwell.) These two tasks don't expose the O-lineman as much.

GP
10-07-2012, 04:21 PM
GP speaking about Brooks said he needed to get a nasty going on and let that be his inner self (which I happen to agree with). Nasty Nate said who would be afraid of an OG. GP was not talking about an untested rookie but a rookie with all the skills bringing out his toughness & wanting to dominate his opponent. At least that is how I interpreted GP. I guess if I'm wrong he will come in and set me straight.

I guess two opposite examples: JJ Watt and Kareem Jackson.

One guy started off immediately and hasn't done anything but climb since day 1.

The other guy, who was similarly gifted albeit in a different position on the field, has spent some time growing into himself and his abilities. Nobody doubted his talents. We questioned his ownership and application of those talents.

Brooks hasn't struck me as being ready. A lot of people talk about his size, his talent, etc. Yes, cannot disagree with that at all. Readiness? He's not there. Unless he somehow made a big leap in the past month. I saw him in the preseason, and liked some things and then would see him be late on an assignment on the next play. Inconsistency, looked a little unsure of himself, etc. Then the next play he's blocking straight ahead and driving two guys across from him like 10 yards into the secondary.

IF the guy gets it figured out? He could be the nastiest OL we've ever seen.

hradhak
10-07-2012, 06:24 PM
It's interesting that our team now drafts 3rd round picks and they are bench players that struggle to get in. 3-4 years ago, those guys were starting from day 1. Granted we are a better team and have more depth, but still.

painekiller
10-08-2012, 02:18 AM
Granted we are a better team and have more depth, but still.

That is why 3rd rounders and even a 1st rounder are not getting on the field. I will not be surprised next year when our 5th rounders and later guys don't even make the opening day roster. The 4th rounders will be hard pressed to make this team.

Goldensilence
10-08-2012, 12:10 PM
That is why 3rd rounders and even a 1st rounder are not getting on the field. I will not be surprised next year when our 5th rounders and later guys don't even make the opening day roster. The 4th rounders will be hard pressed to make this team.

Well, this year's first rounder was a unique situation of BPA and at a need spot with MW departure. Merciless is still pretty raw compared to the two guys outside ahead of him and he's going to get worked into the rotation at some point more heavily this year.

For a team whose philosophy is centered around building through the draft I think we're always going to see guys up and down the draft making an impact and even starting here and there.

I do think right now it's going to serve us better in the long term to get Brooks and Jones reps because both are the future and present at guard.

badboy
10-08-2012, 03:24 PM
That is why 3rd rounders and even a 1st rounder are not getting on the field. I will not be surprised next year when our 5th rounders and later guys don't even make the opening day roster. The 4th rounders will be hard pressed to make this team.This is why I would like to see some trade ups to get higher percentile picks. We traded a 3rd & 5th two drafts ago for a second. New England had two seconds which they don't 2013 but could still see some team willing to trade down.