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View Full Version : Theismann says Romo “isn’t that good”


Hookem Horns
10-03-2012, 12:14 PM
What hit me last night is, Tony isn’t really that good,” Theismann added. “Just because he wears a star on his helmet — we all think that people who are Dallas Cowboys, ‘Oh they’re wonderful and ooh they’re terrific, ooh they’re the next Roger Staubach’ or whatever the heck they want to say. They’re full of bologna.

I really don't like Joe Theismann but I have to agree with him here.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/03/theismann-says-romo-isnt-that-good/

jaayteetx
10-03-2012, 12:22 PM
I, for one, don't think that. "That" being just because they wear the star they're good. He is what he is, very turnover prone, especially in big games.

jaayteetx
10-03-2012, 12:26 PM
And judging from the comments, Cowboy fans are still delusional.

paycheck71
10-03-2012, 12:33 PM
In a long list of problems with the Cowboys, Romo is nowhere near the top of the list, IMO. He's obviously not perfect, and Monday was one of his worst games, but Dallas is a mismanaged team from top to bottom, and to say that it's Romo's fault is wrong. FWIW, I'd take Romo over at least half the QB's in the NFL.

Thorn
10-03-2012, 12:34 PM
The more problems the Cowbutts have the happier I am. :lol:

Double Barrel
10-03-2012, 12:35 PM
Romo would be a lot better if his receivers would catch the passes he's throwing out there.

Some of his receiver suck so bad that they should be ashamed to take an NFL paycheck.

TheEastwood
10-03-2012, 12:36 PM
I'd put Romo on Schaubs's level or maybe a little below. If you put the pieces around him and get a good line, he'll win more then he loses imo. If Jerra just keeps on adding the sexy wr and rb picks, and continues to neglect the oline then this is what you get; A QB that tries to do too much to overcome the pressure the dline puts on him. Leading to a ton of mistakes (ints and fumbles).

Romo and Cutler do more with less protection than anyother QBs in the league imo. That being said, I'd much rather have Schaub with this team. Schaub has gotten better and better at protecting the ball in his career. He's learned that with this team, it's better to just throw the ball away than try to force something. Romo seems to have never learned that. Romo has a good defense and a good running game (when Garret remembers to run). If he'd just learn not to try to force passes he'd be good.

jaayteetx
10-03-2012, 12:37 PM
In a long list of problems with the Cowboys, Romo is nowhere near the top of the list, IMO. He's obviously not perfect, and Monday was one of his worst games, but Dallas is a mismanaged team from top to bottom, and to say that it's Romo's fault is wrong. FWIW, I'd take Romo over at least half the QB's in the NFL.

He didn't say it was all his fault, he said he isn't very good. If you took Romo, you would have a streaky turnover machine. Good luck with that.

jaayteetx
10-03-2012, 12:39 PM
I'd put Romo on Schaubs's level or maybe a little below. If you put the pieces around him and get a good line, he'll win more then he loses imo. If Jerra just keeps on adding the sexy wr and rb picks, and continues to neglect the oline then this is what you get; A QB that tries to do too much to overcome the pressure the dline puts on him. Leading to a ton of mistakes (ints and fumbles).

Romo and Cutler do more with less protection than anyother QBs in the league imo. That being said, I'd much rather have Schaub with this team. Schaub has gotten better and better at protecting the ball in his career. He's learned that with this team, it's better to just throw the ball away than try to force something. Romo seems to have never learned that. Romo has a good defense and a good running game (when Garret remembers to run). If he'd just learn not to try to force passes he'd be good.

I disagree. I think Matt, for the most part, handles pressure very well and makes his line look better by doing so. You put Matt in Dallas, they win more games, IMO. Thankfully, we'll never truly know though.

The Pencil Neck
10-03-2012, 12:42 PM
Romo would be a lot better if his receivers would catch the passes he's throwing out there.

Some of his receiver suck so bad that they should be ashamed to take an NFL paycheck.

What I see with Romo is that he gets into that "cascade of errors" that Kubiak talked about with HWWNBN back in the early days.

Against the Bears, Romo was playing a pretty good game except for his receivers killing him: dropped balls, missed reads, wrong routes. And then stuff starts to snowball and he starts pushing himself and trying too hard. When he does that, he starts missing throws that he was hitting earlier. Then everything blows up and you've got 5 picks and you're getting your butt kicked. IIRC, he's the only active QB who's got multiple 5+ interception games. That's a helluva stat.

I think one of his big stumbling blocks is that there have been times when he's started pushing like that and it's ended up working out. So now he's got it in his head that it works and the problem is that it's risky. If it works it's great and you're a hero but if it fails, it's utterly horrible and you're the wrong kind of goat.

paycheck71
10-03-2012, 12:45 PM
He didn't say it was all his fault, he said he isn't very good. If you took Romo, you would have a streaky turnover machine. Good luck with that.

I disagree to some degree. His TO's, IMO, are more a product of the type of offense they play, the crappy line they have, and the boneheaded receivers than Romo himself. If you fall behind early, like they always seem to do, throw away your game plan, and start running the same three plays from the shotgun, turnovers are inevitable against most teams in the NFL.

As mediocre to bad as the Cowboys were last season, Romo had 4100+ yds, 31 td's, and a passer rating of 102. That's better than "not that good."

paycheck71
10-03-2012, 12:48 PM
I disagree. I think Matt, for the most part, handles pressure very well and makes his line look better by doing so. You put Matt in Dallas, they win more games, IMO. Thankfully, we'll never truly know though.

I think Matt gets killed in Dallas with their line. Romo has more escapability which is the only reason they weren't a 5-6 win team last year.

Goldensilence
10-03-2012, 12:49 PM
I disagree. I think Matt, for the most part, handles pressure very well and makes his line look better by doing so. You put Matt in Dallas, they win more games, IMO. Thankfully, we'll never truly know though.

I think Matt would get killed in Dallas right now same way he would in Chicago. Both have protection issues and Matt just isn't very mobile.

Far as Romo as a QB, all too often I see this guy running for his life and still managing to make plays in the passing game. I think Garrett needs to be more balanced in his play calling and they need to admit Ryan hasn't come in and cleaned up the defense liked they had hoped.

I'm with paycheck in bottom to top this team just doesn't seem to have the right people in place and yet still have a very talented roster.

Dutchrudder
10-03-2012, 12:51 PM
Looks like we have someone to take Matt Schaub's place in the QB hierarchy! Yay, no more "I'd take so-and-so over Schaub" threads! Now they will all migrate to the Cowboys forums! Woot!

RazorOye
10-03-2012, 12:58 PM
What an astute observation. Theismann is a regular Norman Einstein.

Señor Stan
10-03-2012, 12:59 PM
Looks like we have someone to take Matt Schaub's place in the QB hierarchy! Yay, no more "I'd take so-and-so over Schaub" threads! Now they will all migrate to the Cowboys forums! Woot!

I would point those people to the Cowboys official website at cowboys.com

The1ApplePie
10-03-2012, 01:00 PM
Romo is a Brett Favre clone, high-risk, high-reward guy. He will have a lot of turnovers when he's slumping. When he's hot though, he can be damn near impossible to stop.

chicagotexan2
10-03-2012, 01:06 PM
Romo is a Brett Favre clone, high-risk, high-reward guy. He will have a lot of turnovers when he's slumping. When he's hot though, he can be damn near impossible to stop.

Maybe? But that doesn't happen consistently and almost always never when it counts the most. I think he's good, but he's not 'that' good.

gtexan02
10-03-2012, 01:06 PM
Not a Cowboys fan, but Romo is a good QB. His receivers admitted they were blowing routes and thats what resulted in some of those awful looking turnovers.

He's had multiple 30+ TD seasons. You can't be an average QB and rack up multiple 30+ TD seasons

gtexan02
10-03-2012, 01:09 PM
Couple of other statistics:

Top 10 QBs in NFL history by passer rating:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Steve Young+
3. Tom Brady
4. Tony Romo
5. Philip Rivers
6. Peyton Manning
7. Kurt Warner
8. Drew Brees
9. Matt Schaub
10. Ben Roethlisberger

Not saying that proves anything, but those are some good names he's surrounded by (No all time great QBs on there because the league wasn't so pass happy back then)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

jaayteetx
10-03-2012, 01:13 PM
I think Matt gets killed in Dallas with their line. Romo has more escapability which is the only reason they weren't a 5-6 win team last year.

Matt is not mobile, thats for sure. He just knows where to go with the ball quickly and safely when pressured.

paycheck71
10-03-2012, 01:14 PM
Matt is not mobile, thats for sure. He just knows where to go with the ball quickly and safely when pressured.

Unless the receiver runs the wrong route, and the pass is returned for a pick-6.

infantrycak
10-03-2012, 01:19 PM
Tony Romo is a very good but inconsistent QB. He certainly is not up there on the intelligence scale for QB's.

Theisman was the definition of a mediocre QB. Combine that with the fact he is talking about a Cowboys QB when he has obvious bias against all things Cowboys means his opinion is worthless.

HoustonFrog
10-03-2012, 01:22 PM
Couple of other statistics:

Top 10 QBs in NFL history by passer rating:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Steve Young+
3. Tom Brady
4. Tony Romo
5. Philip Rivers
6. Peyton Manning
7. Kurt Warner
8. Drew Brees
9. Matt Schaub
10. Ben Roethlisberger

Not saying that proves anything, but those are some good names he's surrounded by (No all time great QBs on there because the league wasn't so pass happy back then)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

Thanks for putting this up here. I hate this Romo isn't any good argument. You don't get on this list unless you can play. The guy puts up great numbers behind horrible o-lines. Do I think he is a leader that can take them all the way...that is another question. But as far as playing well, he does it year in and year out and if any other QB was behind that line they would be getting killed. As far as the Schaub argument..he has thrown just as many bad, late game interceptions than Romo..go back and read the board here. And he is a very good QB. Romo's one big fault is he won't learn from mistakes and has these games. But I've learned not to wish anyone away when the answer could be Bledsoe, Q. Carter or any other backup scrub out there with less mobility.

Tony Romo is a very good but inconsistent QB.

Theisman was the definition of a mediocre QB. Combine that with the fact he is talking about a Cowboys QB when he has obvious bias against all things Cowboys means his opinion is worthless.

Perfect

Dread-Head
10-03-2012, 01:31 PM
The more problems the Cowbutts have the happier I am. :lol:

The leg bone's connected to the...LAWRENCE TAYLOR! :thisbig: Agreed.

HOU-TEX
10-03-2012, 01:39 PM
Crappy drafting, crappy coaching and crappy attitude which all seems to start at the top. Their oline has sucked for a couple few years now and have done very little in attempt to improve it.

Nothing will change until Jerry steps down and hires personel to handle player personel. In other words, get used to it Boys fans

Dread-Head
10-03-2012, 01:48 PM
Crappy drafting, crappy coaching and crappy attitude which all seems to start at the top. Their oline has sucked for a couple few years now and have done very little in attempt to improve it.

Nothing will change until Jerry steps down and hires personel to handle player personel. In other words, get used to it Boys fans

Personally I'm in a good place with Jerry Jones' God complex. He insists on being GM and head of operations and micromanaging any coach he hires. GOOD! As someone who loathes his football team I revel in that. I'm looking forward to the day he decides he wants to be like the late great Paul Brown and decides he wants to coach them too. I'll watch every Cowboy game with a tub of popcorn when that happens.

Double Barrel
10-03-2012, 02:15 PM
What I see with Romo is that he gets into that "cascade of errors" that Kubiak talked about with HWWNBN back in the early days.

Against the Bears, Romo was playing a pretty good game except for his receivers killing him: dropped balls, missed reads, wrong routes. And then stuff starts to snowball and he starts pushing himself and trying too hard. When he does that, he starts missing throws that he was hitting earlier. Then everything blows up and you've got 5 picks and you're getting your butt kicked. IIRC, he's the only active QB who's got multiple 5+ interception games. That's a helluva stat.

I think one of his big stumbling blocks is that there have been times when he's started pushing like that and it's ended up working out. So now he's got it in his head that it works and the problem is that it's risky. If it works it's great and you're a hero but if it fails, it's utterly horrible and you're the wrong kind of goat.

Good analysis. He reminds me a bit of Favre, as The1ApplePie said, in that he starts to force things and gets in trouble for it. Favre has the record for most INTs as a result, and I would not be surprised to see Romo up there with him when it's all said and done.

Some of those passed last Monday were literally perfect, but Dez Bryant couldn't catch a ball that was in his hands. Dude looks like Jacoby Jones out there. And a couple of those INTs were all on his receivers.

Tony Romo is a very good but inconsistent QB. He certainly is not up there on the intelligence scale for QB's.

Theisman was the definition of a mediocre QB. Combine that with the fact he is talking about a Cowboys QB when he has obvious bias against all things Cowboys means his opinion is worthless.

The Theisman bias against all things Cowboys crossed my mind, as well. Theisman is one of those talking heads that likes to hear himself talk a lot of times. I have never really thought he was that insightful, regardless of his resume.

welsh texan
10-03-2012, 02:22 PM
Can't help but think that if you put Tony Romo in our team instead of Schaub for the past 6 years you'd have pretty much the same QB. It comes down to coaching and the talent around him.

BigWig
10-03-2012, 02:28 PM
Romo may not be an "elite" qb but he does not suck anymore than some we have in the league right now. I would not want him, and he is not getting any help from his WR's either.
I think we all know as long as JJ is ther it will always be a circus.
Heck 122-122 since like 1997 or so, thats bad!

Hookem Horns
10-03-2012, 04:02 PM
Thanks for putting this up here. I hate this Romo isn't any good argument.

I will reply to you what I tell my nephew who (as a Cowboys fan) thinks Romo is a HOF QB.

Hey, if you're good with him, so am I. As a Cowboys hater I have zero complaints about Romo. The guy is just good enough to keep his job and just bad enough to keep us haters happy.

:)

HoustonFrog
10-03-2012, 05:35 PM
I will reply to you what I tell my nephew who (as a Cowboys fan) thinks Romo is a HOF QB.

Hey, if you're good with him, so am I. As a Cowboys hater I have zero complaints about Romo. The guy is just good enough to keep his job and just bad enough to keep us haters happy.

:)

Lets not get carried away here. I never said that he is HOF and don't think he is close. You have to make your team successful for that. But he does play really well a majority of the time and his numbers bear that out. I stopped hating on the guy when I flew up to see them play Minny in the playoffs. He was running for his life and it looked like a jail break from upper level Metrodome. Same thing now. A true drop back passer would get killed. There is no one right now who would do well with that line. It goes to what many are saying above...when he scrambles and is in "hero ball" mode bad things can happen because he starts flicking it around.

paycheck71
10-03-2012, 05:47 PM
Lets not get carried away here. I never said that he is HOF and don't think he us close. You have to make your team successful for that. But he does play really well a majority if the time and his numbers bear that out. I stopped hating on the guy when I flew up to see them play Minny in the playoffs. He was running for his life and it looked like a jail break from upper level Metrodome. Same thing now. A true drop back passer would get killed. There is no one right now who would do well with that line. It goes that what many are saying above...when he scrambles and is in "hero ball" mode bad things can happen because he starts flicking it around.

I'm not a Cowboys fan, but if you've read my posts in this thread, I'm obviously with you on Romo. Sadly, people like Skip Bayless and Steven A Smith have TV shows and contribute to misinformation of majority of mainstream fans.

steelbtexan
10-03-2012, 06:59 PM
Tony Romo is a very good but inconsistent QB. He certainly is not up there on the intelligence scale for QB's.

Theisman was the definition of a mediocre QB. Combine that with the fact he is talking about a Cowboys QB when he has obvious bias against all things Cowboys means his opinion is worthless.

Disagree

Theismann was a clutch QB

How many rings does he have? When it mattered most he was at his best. Romo not so much.

StarStruck
10-03-2012, 07:14 PM
How many rings does he have? When it mattered most he was at his best. Romo not so much.

One more than Romo. Who knows, if Romo lasts 15 years, perhaps he can join the group. There have been some with less talent that did.

infantrycak
10-03-2012, 07:33 PM
Lets not get carried away here. I never said that he is HOF and don't think he us close.

That's the thing though - Cowboys QB's are up against a standard far above most other teams. The expectation is HoF and SB's. There are 23 QB's in the HoF. Many of them don't have a ring. So basically only half the league has ever had a HoF QB and even a smaller set has one which has won a SB. The Niners and Cowboys have two each and two Cowboys are splitting 5 SB's, the Niners 4. To carry that farther and address your point of having to make plays with his feet, Romo is playing exactly up against that in Rodger the Dodger, Captain Comeback Staubach - a QB who made time or distance with his feet and still made good decisions consistently. Then he is the anti-Aikman as well since Aikman was Mr. Post Season. It may not be fair but that is the standard for Romo.

Disagree

Theismann was a clutch QB

How many rings does he have? When it mattered most he was at his best. Romo not so much.

Disagree all you want. First I didn't compare Romo and Theisman. Second is Theisman was a mediocre QB regardless of whether he got a ring while being carried by John Riggins and a fearsome D (plus equating that to other SB rings is a joke).

Texan_Bill
10-03-2012, 08:10 PM
Personally I'm in a good place with Jerry Jones' God complex. He insists on being GM and head of operations and micromanaging any coach he hires. GOOD! As someone who loathes his football team I revel in that. I'm looking forward to the day he decides he wants to be like the late great Paul Brown and decides he wants to coach them too. I'll watch every Cowboy game with a tub of popcorn when that happens.

Yessir, my brother from another mother!!! In addition, I agree with you in et al!!!

The Pencil Neck
10-03-2012, 09:42 PM
There are 23 QB's in the HoF. Many of them don't have a ring. So basically only half the league has ever had a HoF QB and even a smaller set has one which has won a SB.

Sorry. Piggybacking and taking a tangent off this because I thought it was interesting.


By my count, there are 26 HOF QBs. 18 retired in the Super Bowl era. I'm going to call it 17 because by the time he retired, George Blanda wasn't the starting QB anymore and he wasn't a starting QB for the majority of his time in the SB era.

I count 3 of those as QBs that never "led" their team to the SB: Dan Fouts, Warren Moon, and Sonny Jurgenson (who wen to a SB as a backup.) Three QBs led their team to a SB but didn't win one: Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and Fran Tarkenton.

So, 2/3rds of the QBs in the HOF have led their team to a SB and one at least 1.

The QBs who have won SBs (prior to 1999) but not made it into the Hall:

1. Kenny Stabler
2. Jim Plunkett
3. Joe Theismann
4. Jim McMahon
5. Phil Simms
6. Doug Williams
7. Jeff Hostetler
8. Mark Rypien

Kurt Warner is going to be interesting and Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are definitely out. Brady, of course, makes it in. I can't see how Peyton and Eli don't make it in.

Sorry. Just found all that interesting. You can continue your regularly scheduled thread.

GP
10-03-2012, 11:20 PM
Romo is like the old Texans...great once in a blue moon, good when it doesn't really count much, and awful when it matters most.

The End. Right? Right.

HoustonFrog
10-04-2012, 07:08 AM
Romo is like the old Texans...great once in a blue moon, good when it doesn't really count much, and awful when it matters most.

The End. Right? Right.

Not right. Don't agree at all.

He is a lot better than "great once in a blue moon." The stats above say otherwise. You can't have 3-4 great games and stink and be in the Top 5 all time for QB rating. He has been in this category for over 3 years now. His numbers last year were monster. He also has 13 4th quarter comebacks and 13 game winning drives. 4 of these happened last year

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=RomoTo00

So its not like he chokes all the time. Even when they have failed in December his numbers haven't always been horrible. His issue isn't being awful when it counts most...though that may mean different things to different people. To me it is late December games. His issue is having his stinkers in situations where he kills wins that would lift their status anytime in the year....Detroit and Giants last year. This Chicago game. They can happen anytime and without warning. That's the issue..consistency. You get the Giants game where he might have played his best game ever and then you get this game. Their schedule coming up is BRUTAL for 5 games. He might play excellent for those games but then he might stink up the joint vs say a lesser team. I mean the guy carried them with a busted body last year against a tough 49er team.

As I said above, the question isn't whether the guy is a top QB...I think he is Top 10-12. The issue is would you trust him to win you a SB and that is a good debate because I'm never sure if his bad games are solely due to the O-line product that I've witnessed or a mental product where he will never "get it."

That's the thing though - Cowboys QB's are up against a standard far above most other teams. The expectation is HoF and SB's. There are 23 QB's in the HoF. Many of them don't have a ring. So basically only half the league has ever had a HoF QB and even a smaller set has one which has won a SB. The Niners and Cowboys have two each and two Cowboys are splitting 5 SB's, the Niners 4. To carry that farther and address your point of having to make plays with his feet, Romo is playing exactly up against that in Rodger the Dodger, Captain Comeback Staubach - a QB who made time or distance with his feet and still made good decisions consistently. Then he is the anti-Aikman as well since Aikman was Mr. Post Season. It may not be fair but that is the standard for Romo.


Incredibly excellent post Cak!!Must spread rep!

steelbtexan
10-04-2012, 07:52 AM
One more than Romo. Who knows, if Romo lasts 15 years, perhaps he can join the group. There have been some with less talent that did.

Theismann made it to another SB and won many playoff games. Even before Theismann was the starting QB he returned punts and held for extra points. You didn't see Theismann mishandling snaps on FG attempts in the playoffs like Romo did.

Theismann has as many rings as Romo has playoff wins. Romo is this generations Moon. Screws up at the most inoppurtune times, cant string together great games in the playoffs and generally likes being Romo the celebrity instead of honing his craft. Just like Moon did.

infantrycak
10-04-2012, 09:16 AM
Theismann made it to another SB and won many playoff games.

Many? The Redskins made it to the playoffs three years with Theismann. Theismann got four playoff wins and his ring in the strike shortened season. The next year they returned to the SB and were historically crushed scoring no TD's and beaten by the largest point spread ever. Other than the strike year he was 2-2 in the playoffs.

Double Barrel
10-04-2012, 09:56 AM
Steve Young completely disagreed with Theisman on yesterday's NFL Live, so there's some balance to HoF QBs with rings to even things out. And Young does not have a built-in anti-Cowboy bias.

Y'all know that I'm far from a Cowboys fan, but I am a fan of the NFL. I think Romo on a better team would be considered much better than he is with this Dallas team. As long as Jones is the GM, Romo might always flounder with that roster. That franchise's fundamental problem is not QB, it's the GM.

steelbtexan
10-04-2012, 10:04 AM
Many? The Redskins made it to the playoffs three years with Theismann. Theismann got four playoff wins and his ring in the strike shortened season. The next year they returned to the SB and were historically crushed scoring no TD's and beaten by the largest point spread ever. Other than the strike year he was 2-2 in the playoffs.

Theismann has a better playoff record than Romo and Moon combined.

Theismann is not a HOF'er but he was better than you give him credit for.

Would you take Theismann in his prime over Romo? Stats aside I would take Theismann over Romo and for that matter Moon any day and twice on Sunday. Theismann was a clutch QB. IMHO

Errant Hothy
10-04-2012, 10:14 AM
Couple of other statistics:

Top 10 QBs in NFL history by passer rating:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Steve Young+
3. Tom Brady
4. Tony Romo
5. Philip Rivers
6. Peyton Manning
7. Kurt Warner
8. Drew Brees
9. Matt Schaub
10. Ben Roethlisberger

Not saying that proves anything, but those are some good names he's surrounded by (No all time great QBs on there because the league wasn't so pass happy back then)

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

So would anybody take Romo over the any of the other 9 QBs on the above list? Because for me, if I had to chose between just those 10 QBs to lead my team Romo would be last. That's not factoring in the several QBs not on that list that I would most certainly take before Romo.

fmdog44
10-04-2012, 10:49 AM
He is not consistant. Like Cutler for the Bears he can shine one week and collapse the next. So how do you remedy it? You don't.

infantrycak
10-04-2012, 11:03 AM
Theismann has a better playoff record than Romo and Moon combined.

Theismann is not a HOF'er but he was better than you give him credit for.

Would you take Theismann in his prime over Romo? Stats aside I would take Theismann over Romo and for that matter Moon any day and twice on Sunday. Theismann was a clutch QB. IMHO

He has a better playoff win percentage. Not sure I would say he has a better playoff record.

On a team with one of the best OL's of its time with a run 1st and play D character, i.e. the pressure is not on the QB, Theisman got to the playoffs 2.5 times (I know it's 3).

On teams centered around an aerial attack, i.e. the pressure is on the QB, Moon got to the playoffs 7 times. I'm taking Moon in a heartbeat.

Double Barrel
10-04-2012, 11:27 AM
Considering that the Joe Gibbs led Redskins wons three Super Bowls with three different QBs, I'd say it was the team and system that made those QBs into champions more than the QBs putting the teams on their backs to win.

I'm not diminishing Theisman's accomplishments in the NFL, but those Redskins teams were power teams more than they were anything close to resembling QB finesse teams.

HJam72
10-04-2012, 11:53 AM
Considering that the Joe Gibbs led Redskins wons three Super Bowls with three different QBs, I'd say it was the team and system that made those QBs into champions more than the QBs putting the teams on their backs to win.

I'm not diminishing Theisman's accomplishments in the NFL, but those Redskins teams were power teams more than they were anything close to resembling QB finesse teams.

Those teams had QBs? :kitten:

welsh texan
10-04-2012, 01:51 PM
Nothing wrong IMHO, with a non-elite QB who learns/is taught a system to the point where he wins a lot despite not having truly elite talent. I wasn't around in Theisman's era but I can tell you I see plenty of QB's around the current NFL who could get/have got multiple rings who aren't exactly the greatest physically.

A heck of a lot comes down to the mental side and learning to manage the system.

Rivers, Romo, Eli, Schaub, Cutler for instance, all those guys are nothing special physically, all of them could lead their team to the big one if they were in the right system.

jaayteetx
10-04-2012, 02:00 PM
He has a better playoff win percentage. Not sure I would say he has a better playoff record.

On a team with one of the best OL's of its time with a run 1st and play D character, i.e. the pressure is not on the QB, Theisman got to the playoffs 2.5 times (I know it's 3).

On teams centered around an aerial attack, i.e. the pressure is on the QB, Moon got to the playoffs 7 times. I'm taking Moon in a heartbeat.

Moon could definitely beat any of them.

Playoffs
10-04-2012, 02:02 PM
I'm still a Romo fan. The guy is running for his life too often, due to weak O-line & poor route running. Tries too hard to win on his own.

He has improved over the years, but I can't but think if he had a real QB mentor like Kubiak for those times that he'd be highly thought of.

The1ApplePie
10-04-2012, 02:14 PM
Rivers, Romo, Eli, Schaub, Cutler for instance, all those guys are nothing special physically, all of them could lead their team to the big one if they were in the right system.

Romo is asked to carry the load more than the rest of the QBs you listed, though Rivers has had to step up after LT left.

The Boys have a good RB now, not sure why Garrett doesn't feed him the rock more often.

The Pencil Neck
10-04-2012, 02:27 PM
Those teams had QBs? :kitten:

Joe Theismann, Mark Rypien, Jay Schroeder, Doug Williams -- what's not to love? A bunch of extremely talented QBs with skill sets to rival anyone who has ever played the game.

Oh.

Wait.

:kubepalm:

GuerillaBlack
10-04-2012, 03:22 PM
I'd put Romo on Schaubs's level or maybe a little below. If you put the pieces around him and get a good line, he'll win more then he loses imo. If Jerra just keeps on adding the sexy wr and rb picks, and continues to neglect the oline then this is what you get; A QB that tries to do too much to overcome the pressure the dline puts on him. Leading to a ton of mistakes (ints and fumbles).

Romo and Cutler do more with less protection than anyother QBs in the league imo. That being said, I'd much rather have Schaub with this team. Schaub has gotten better and better at protecting the ball in his career. He's learned that with this team, it's better to just throw the ball away than try to force something. Romo seems to have never learned that. Romo has a good defense and a good running game (when Garret remembers to run). If he'd just learn not to try to force passes he'd be good.

Yeah, but at the same time, I would like to ser Schaub gain four or five yards on a scramble and first down, instead of throwing it away Romo is asked to carry the load more than the rest of the QBs you listed, though Rivers has had to step up after LT left.

The Boys have a good RB now, not sure why Garrett doesn't feed him the rock more often.

Because the offensive line is terrible. Murray can't get any yards.

Vinny
10-04-2012, 03:36 PM
Joe Theismann, Mark Rypien, Jay Schroeder, Doug Williams -- what's not to love? A bunch of extremely talented QBs with skill sets to rival anyone who has ever played the game.

Oh.

Wait.

:kubepalm:Doug Williams was a hell of a QB and a winner. Tampa Bay's didn't do squat till he got there and he took those sad sacks to the playoffs and he took the Redskins to the SB. He wasn't a product of Joe Gibb's system as Rypien and Schroeder was.

as far as Romo goes...I've said in the past that Romo is overrated. Still think that way.

welsh texan
10-04-2012, 03:43 PM
Romo is asked to carry the load more than the rest of the QBs you listed, though Rivers has had to step up after LT left.

The Boys have a good RB now, not sure why Garrett doesn't feed him the rock more often.

Totally agree, the point I was making was that I don't see much difference in the QB, I see a difference in the coaching, the system. The ability to hand it off to the RB, and as GB has stated, the ability of the Oline in front of him, is down to the coaches as well.

I'd frankly take any of the QB's I mentioned in this system, with the number of years Schaub has had, and I don't think any of them would have any problems handling it.

Thats not me putting Schaub down, I rate all those guys pretty highly but they've had problems not of their making IMHO.

StarStruck
10-04-2012, 04:04 PM
Doug Williams was a hell of a QB and a winner. I agree. Tampa Bay's didn't do squat till he got there and he took those sad sacks to the playoffs They were horrible before he came and after he left until Dungy became coach. Before Dungy, their biggest rival and must win game was against the Saints. and he took the Redskins to the SB. I remember how he started out slow and stepped up and just took that SB. I read in his book that he had a horrible toothache/abcess upon arriving for the SB, and was in severe pain the entire trip.

as far as Romo goes...I've said in the past that Romo is overrated. Still think that way. I respectfully disagree.

powda
10-05-2012, 07:19 AM
The only story here is why did it take Theismann so long to figure out Romo isnt that good.

StarStruck
10-05-2012, 07:59 AM
The only story here is why did it take Theismann so long to figure out Romo isnt that good.

To be fair he has played some games with Hall of Fame quality.

powda
10-05-2012, 08:45 AM
To be fair he has played some games with Hall of Fame quality.

Statistically he has always done well ,but he plays till december every year and shuts it down early. I notice a lot of his Hall of Fame quality plays and come backs happen because he has put himself or his team in the hole with 3rd tier bone head plays. Funny how often he gets credit for fixing problems he caused in the first place.

paycheck71
10-05-2012, 10:11 AM
Statistically he has always done well ,but he plays till december every year and shuts it down early. I notice a lot of his Hall of Fame quality plays and come backs happen because he has put himself or his team in the hole with 3rd tier bone head plays. Funny how often he gets credit for fixing problems he caused in the first place.

The Cowboys are paper thin at every position. By December, injuries take their toll and your depth really starts to show. But sure, let's blame that on Romo, too.

powda
10-05-2012, 10:50 AM
The Cowboys are paper thin at every position. By December, injuries take their toll and your depth really starts to show. But sure, let's blame that on Romo, too.

My opinion is based off watching Romo for years. They havent always been weak at their current positions ,but Romo has always been the same hot and cold Qb. After a while, stop looking for excuses not to blame the guy and admit hes part of the problem. David Carr syndrome.

Goldensilence
10-05-2012, 11:18 AM
Thesiman calling someone a mediocre QB?

If there was ever a definition of pot calling the kettle black.....

paycheck71
10-05-2012, 11:28 AM
My opinion is based off watching Romo for years. They havent always been weak at their current positions ,but Romo has always been the same hot and cold Qb. After a while, stop looking for excuses not to blame the guy and admit hes part of the problem. David Carr syndrome.

Agree to disagree, I guess. Like I said earlier, in a long list of problems Dallas has, Romo is nowhere near the top. Could they improve on their QB? Sure, but in that case so could 20 other teams.

Hookem Horns
10-05-2012, 12:06 PM
On teams centered around an aerial attack, i.e. the pressure is on the QB, Moon got to the playoffs 7 times. I'm taking Moon in a heartbeat.

Moon < Pressure

I have never seen a QB look so great then turn around and fold in the clutch as much as Moon.

I was probably his biggest fan during that stretch but toward the end I started realizing what a choker (no pun intended on his domestic issues) he was.

Double Barrel
10-05-2012, 12:12 PM
Moon < Pressure

I have never seen a QB look so great then turn around and fold in the clutch as much as Moon.

I was probably his biggest fan during that stretch but toward the end I started realizing what a choker (no pun intended on his domestic issues) he was.

I've always liked Moon, but this is the truth. He was not an inspirational leader. I remember him sitting alone on the bench many times, disengaged from the game, lost in thought, and certainly not firing up the troops in any way. I remember wondering if he even wanted to be there sometimes.

35-3 was a good example. He had a perfect first half, but simply failed to seal the deal in the second half. Yeah, team meltdown, and not entirely his fault, but he did make some bad mistakes along with the rest of the team in the second half of that game. I can't imagine guys like Montana, Aikman, Elway, Marino, Young, giving up a 33 point lead in less than one half of a playoff game.

infantrycak
10-05-2012, 02:05 PM
Moon < Pressure

I have never seen a QB look so great then turn around and fold in the clutch as much as Moon.

I was probably his biggest fan during that stretch but toward the end I started realizing what a choker (no pun intended on his domestic issues) he was.

I've always liked Moon, but this is the truth. He was not an inspirational leader. I remember him sitting alone on the bench many times, disengaged from the game, lost in thought, and certainly not firing up the troops in any way. I remember wondering if he even wanted to be there sometimes.

I hear you guys and know you watched him a lot more than me. Just as a counter example though, look at Manning. Other than the one SB win he is 5-10 in the playoffs. He was definitely developing a choker label until winning the SB in his 7th try. I doubt he wins another SB and in the end he will go down as an all time great whose results didn't end up matching his overall play. At the end of the day, you can't choke in the playoffs unless you get to the playoffs.

Double Barrel
10-05-2012, 02:13 PM
I see what you're saying, but Moon never won more than one playoff game in a season, and never made it to a conference championship game. That Oilers team went to the playoffs seven seasons in a row, was loaded with talent, but could never do much once they got there.

"He also holds the postseason mark with 16 career fumbles – in just 10 games. During a divisional playoff against Kansas City on Jan. 16, 1994, he fumbled a mind-boggling and record-setting five times." Source (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/six-points-moon-not-first-ballot-worthy/5290/)

His playoff record (3-7) is closer to Dan Fouts (3-4) than anyone else. At least Fouts went to two conference championship games.

infantrycak
10-05-2012, 02:19 PM
Heck I was at that damn KC playoff game - I guess I had blocked out all the fumbles.

Giant Tiger
10-05-2012, 10:34 PM
when he scrambles and is in "hero ball" mode bad things can happen because he starts flicking it around.

That's how Joe Theismann played in the CFL :heh: