PDA

View Full Version : Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub


TejasTom
09-29-2012, 08:30 AM
Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
The punishment wasn’t nearly Joe Mays-severe, but still Broncos outside linebacker Von Miller got dinged pretty good by the league office.

Miller was fined $15,750 for a roughing the passer penalty he incurred during the Broncos’ 31-25 loss to the Houston Texans.

“No comment,” Miller said, adding he would appeal.

Specifically, the league said Miller “unnecessarily drove the quarterback to the ground.” The quarterback was Matt Schaub, who lost part of his ear after his helmet flew off from a blast by Mays, the Broncos’ middle linebacker.

Mays was not only fined $50,000 for the hit, he received a one-game suspension and will not play Sunday against the Oakland Raiders.


Denver Post (http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/09/28/von-miller-fined-15750-roughing-matt-schaub/16042/)

dream_team
09-29-2012, 09:01 AM
I didn't think Miller's hit was that bad.

Playoffs
09-29-2012, 11:14 AM
Well deserved, pile-driving QB is attempt to injure imo.

TexansBlood
09-29-2012, 11:19 AM
I didn't think Miller's hit was that bad.

He picked him up off his feet and drove him into the ground, that's how shoulder injuries(Lienart) happen.

dream_team
09-29-2012, 11:38 AM
He picked him up off his feet and drove him into the ground, that's how shoulder injuries(Lienart) happen.

But it wasn't intentional IMO. Looked like Miller was trying to make a clean tackle. Just so happens Schaub just threw the ball, so was out of balance, so looked like he picked him up and drove him to the ground. I don't know how Miller could have played it any differently.

TexansBlood
09-29-2012, 12:00 PM
But it wasn't intentional IMO. Looked like Miller was trying to make a clean tackle. Just so happens Schaub just threw the ball, so was out of balance, so looked like he picked him up and drove him to the ground. I don't know how Miller could have played it any differently.

So it was Shaubs fault now? Intentional or not that's how a qb can get a separated shoulder or worse and if you drive a qb into the ground you will get fined plain and simple.

robroy72
09-29-2012, 12:05 PM
But it wasn't intentional IMO. Looked like Miller was trying to make a clean tackle. Just so happens Schaub just threw the ball, so was out of balance, so looked like he picked him up and drove him to the ground. I don't know how Miller could have played it any differently.

He picked him up just above the knee and made sure his helmet was driven into #8.

Hottoddie
09-29-2012, 12:15 PM
He picked him up off his feet and drove him into the ground, that's how shoulder injuries(Lienart) happen.

In my opinion, that's old school football. I love seeing a defender wrap up a player & drive his dick in the dirt. That's how you intimidate a player without having to take a cheap shot. The fact that it was a QB (our QB) should have nothing to do with it. The league has pampered the QB's for so long that they've become soft. However, I do agree with throwing a flag on the Mays hit. That was an obvious attempt to injure the player.

The players today like to throw their bodies at the offensive player & more often than they should, allow the opponent to keep their balance & take off for a long run. Imo, the only sure way to tackle is to run through the player & wrap your arms around him. Then you can intimidate him by driving him into the turf hard.

Dutchrudder
09-29-2012, 12:15 PM
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/BroncosMillerHit1.gif

HJam72
09-29-2012, 12:24 PM
The defender's goal should be to take the QB down as quickly as possible, while possibly hitting the ball with helmet or fist or stripping it. Lifting the QB (or whoever has the ball) before driving him to the ground is not only unnecessary, but also a move made for no other reason than to hurt your opponent. If players are allowed to do things simply to hurt their opponent, injuries are far more likely, especially when it's a D-lineman doing it to a QB.

I have stated already in another thread that I actually thought the Miller hit was worse, because it was so clearly intentional, or at least I thought. I get your point about Schaub possibly hopping a little to make a throw and then Von Miller hit him, making it not all his fault; but, I want to make the point that I am very much against defenders lifting the QB only to have more room to drive him to the ground, if that had been the case or not.

ChampionTexan
09-29-2012, 12:41 PM
In my opinion, that's old school football. I love seeing a defender wrap up a player & drive his dick in the dirt. That's how you intimidate a player without having to take a cheap shot. The fact that it was a QB (our QB) should have nothing to do with it. The league has pampered the QB's for so long that they've become soft. However, I do agree with throwing a flag on the Mays hit. That was an obvious attempt to injure the player.

The players today like to throw their bodies at the offensive player & more often than they should, allow the opponent to keep their balance & take off for a long run. Imo, the only sure way to tackle is to run through the player & wrap your arms around him. Then you can intimidate him by driving him into the turf hard.

Well, whether you agree with the rule or not, what you've just described is pretty specifically illegal when it comes to doing it to a QB in the act of passing.

A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a
passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the
ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided
for in (1) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after
throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on
top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap
up or cradle the passer with the defensive player’s arms.

LINK (Page 83) (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2011_Rule_Book.pdf)

The penalty on Miller was unquestionably correct as far as I'm concerned. Again, maybe you disagree with the rule, but that's kind of irrelevant.

dream_team
09-29-2012, 01:22 PM
So it was Shaubs fault now? Intentional or not that's how a qb can get a separated shoulder or worse and if you drive a qb into the ground you will get fined plain and simple.

Not saying its Scahub's fault. Just not intentional or dirty IMO. Miller running at full speed, Schaub in the middle of throwing, is going to produce that type of hit.

infantrycak
09-29-2012, 03:17 PM
Not saying its Scahub's fault. Just not intentional or dirty IMO. Miller running at full speed, Schaub in the middle of throwing, is going to produce that type of hit.

Running at full speed has nothing to do with picking someone up. In fact it is just the opposite and proves Miller's intent Miller slowed to pick up Schaub then hops to rotate his body and come down with his weight leading with his helmet straight into Schaub's chest. He grasped Schaub specifically to able to pick him up and that is not a normal maneuver nor is it somebody in the process of "oops I had a little too much momentum going." Totally intentional.

gtexan02
09-29-2012, 03:37 PM
I wonder if all this sticking up for Miller has to do with him having gone to A&M

NitroGSXR
09-29-2012, 03:41 PM
I guess I could see it both ways. Maybe he wasn't trying to intentionally injure Schaub per se but was making a "I'm a badass" sort of tackle. Von Miller is an amped player with a lot of motor. Regardless of intent, he still has to learn to control that motor so the fine was just. Actually, it could have been higher. This isn't Miller's first rodeo.

paycheck71
09-29-2012, 04:10 PM
I don't really care what his intent was. And he's not getting fined for what he intended to do. He got fined for driving the QB to the ground, which is what he did on that play.

Same goes for the Mays hit. Some people (including ND Kalu and Greg Koch on 790AM) say it was a good hard hit and they don't see anything wrong with it because he "didn't mean" to hit Schaub in the helmet. He damn near blew Schaub's head off with his helmet to helmet hit whether he meant it or not, that's why he got suspended.

GP
09-29-2012, 04:39 PM
I don't really care what his intent was. And he's not getting fined for what he intended to do. He got fined for driving the QB to the ground, which is what he did on that play.

Same goes for the Mays hit. Some people (including ND Kalu and Greg Koch on 790AM) say it was a good hard hit and they don't see anything wrong with it because he "didn't mean" to hit Schaub in the helmet. He damn near blew Schaub's head off with his helmet to helmet hit whether he meant it or not, that's why he got suspended.

Well said.

When it's our own QB getting put on blast, I'm starting to see why the new rules protecting QBs makes sense for all involved.

The only person being punished here is the defender. Everyone else wins. The QB wins because he might get to play longer, which means the team probably wins because they have their best QB out there, which means the fans win because your best QB is leading your team on Sundays.

Anybody want to see an NFL where the few talented QBs get hurt due to what's now deemed to be "illegal hits"...so we can watch a league where guys like Colt McCoy and Sage Rosenfels are a team's only option at QB? I don't. So I'm down with the QB protection-oriented rules on how a QB can be hit and how they cannot. Makes a lot of damn sense when you stop and really think about it.

Sorry guys, if you want awesome highlights of nasty hits...go watch the old NFL Films archives or play Madden video game and create all the hits on QBs you want to see (because in real life, OUR Quarterback needs to stay upright and under center).

Miller wrapped his arms around Schaub's knees, then launched himself and planted his helmet into Matt's chest. Going as vertical as he could go, to inflict the most speed and concentrated impact he could generate. That's not trying to sack a QB. That's trying to hurt him. And nobody here wants their QB out for the season on something like that. This is our Super Bowl year dammit.

dream_team
09-29-2012, 04:40 PM
Running at full speed has nothing to do with picking someone up. In fact it is just the opposite and proves Miller's intent Miller slowed to pick up Schaub then hops to rotate his body and come down with his weight leading with his helmet straight into Schaub's chest. He grasped Schaub specifically to able to pick him up and that is not a normal maneuver nor is it somebody in the process of "oops I had a little too much momentum going." Totally intentional.

I just watched the replay 10 times, and I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I don't see it the way you do. Oh well, I'm not losing any sleep over this.

Vinny
09-29-2012, 04:48 PM
I just watched the replay 10 times, and I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I don't see it the way you do. Oh well, I'm not losing any sleep over this.I see that as an illegal hit too. I didn't see that as an illegal hit a few years back before they changed the rules...but you just can't pick up a qb and drive him into the turf in today's game.

paycheck71
09-29-2012, 05:00 PM
I see that as an illegal hit too. I didn't see that as an illegal hit a few years back before they changed the rules...but you just can't pick up a qb and drive him into the turf in today's game.

I think that's where a lot of disagreements on these hits come from. People voice their opinions based on what they THINK should be legal or what USED to be legal, and not based on what actually IS legal according to the rules as they currently are. It's OK to disagree with the rules, but one can't just pretend like they don't exist.

steelbtexan
09-29-2012, 05:21 PM
I wonder if all this sticking up for Miller has to do with him having gone to A&M

That would never happen on this MB. LOL

Hervoyel
09-29-2012, 07:01 PM
In my opinion, that's old school football. I love seeing a defender wrap up a player & drive his dick in the dirt. That's how you intimidate a player without having to take a cheap shot. The fact that it was a QB (our QB) should have nothing to do with it. The league has pampered the QB's for so long that they've become soft. However, I do agree with throwing a flag on the Mays hit. That was an obvious attempt to injure the player.

The players today like to throw their bodies at the offensive player & more often than they should, allow the opponent to keep their balance & take off for a long run. Imo, the only sure way to tackle is to run through the player & wrap your arms around him. Then you can intimidate him by driving him into the turf hard.


Maybe we all need to go ahead and just admit that we're not watching the "Why back in my day when MEN played football...." game of our youth. The NFL, todays NFL runs on the passing game and quality quarterbacking. I get that all of us really want to see broken bones, blood dripping off of the players, and leather helmets (wait, check that. I don't want to see that) but that's not the reality of the game in 2012.

I agree with you regarding poor tackling. It seems to be a dying art form. The soft QB thing I can't get with because it's not the same game that I grew up watching and regardless of whether we like it or not our team will suck intensely if we lose our QB. I don't want that so Von Miller deserves his fine and needs to STFU.

Double Barrel
09-29-2012, 07:35 PM
It's a Jack Del Rio defense. Of course it was intentional to hurt the QB. It's naive to believe otherwise.

Von Miller is perfect for JDR, considering the fines in his career so far.

SheTexan
09-29-2012, 07:45 PM
It's a Jack Del Rio defense. Of course it was intentional to hurt the QB. It's naive to believe otherwise.

Von Miller is perfect for JDR, considering the fines in his career so far.


When are they gonna start investigating, and fining Jack Del Rio? The guy is a scumbag and teaches his players to hit to injure. Doesn't take a football pro to see that!! JMO

Fred
10-01-2012, 06:36 AM
But it wasn't intentional IMO. Looked like Miller was trying to make a clean tackle. Just so happens Schaub just threw the ball, so was out of balance, so looked like he picked him up and drove him to the ground. I don't know how Miller could have played it any differently.

Miller could have played it differently by ... NOT picking him up and driving him to the ground!

Seriously, he could have easily just bear hugged Schaub and left him standing. No need to make the dirty play he made. Oops, there is a reason - Jack Del Rio is his coach.

TimeKiller
10-01-2012, 07:29 AM
So, how do Texans fans feel about the hit Quin put on Locker???

I think we all better suck it up if the league decides to weigh in on it too. It sure looked like a good clean hit but Quin did land on top of Locker, Locker did end up on the bench from it....just saying....

GP
10-01-2012, 08:36 AM
So, how do Texans fans feel about the hit Quin put on Locker???

I think we all better suck it up if the league decides to weigh in on it too. It sure looked like a good clean hit but Quin did land on top of Locker, Locker did end up on the bench from it....just saying....

I thought the same thing. But Quin did put his helmet WAY over to the side, to avoid using the helmet (into Locker's helmet and/or chest) 100%. To me, that counts for something.

And...the injury occurred to the opposite shoulder due to a freakishly timed side-swipe by JJ Watt. I can't tell if the shoulder popped out due to JJ Watt or the landing on the ground, though.

All in all, it didn't seem like he was trying to hurt him. IDK, then again that could be the homer in me. I had said last week, in regards to how Broncos fans were poo-poo'ing the hits on Schaub, that I hoped us Texans fans weren't that blind about the hits OUR guys put on other players.

GlassHalfFull
10-01-2012, 08:42 AM
So, how do Texans fans feel about the hit Quin put on Locker???

I think we all better suck it up if the league decides to weigh in on it too. It sure looked like a good clean hit but Quin did land on top of Locker, Locker did end up on the bench from it....just saying....

This occurred to me also, I was at the game, so didn't have the benefit of watching it on TV, just stadium replays viewed thru beer goggles.

But I said at the time that it looked very similar to the Von Miller hit from last week. I don't know how much of a difference it makes that Locker still had the ball. Given that there was an injury, I would not be surprised to see a fine.



And to weigh in on the Von Miller hit as an Aggie and Von fan, it was ugly and he deserved the fine.

infantrycak
10-01-2012, 09:22 AM
But I said at the time that it looked very similar to the Von Miller hit from last week. I don't know how much of a difference it makes that Locker still had the ball. Given that there was an injury, I would not be surprised to see a fine.

I would be shocked if there were any fine on Quinn. The only similarity between the two plays is a QB got hit. Quinn never left his feet and never made any attempt to drive Locker into the ground. He drove straight through Locker with a textbook tackle. Hitting Schaub hard is not what got Miller in trouble. It was picking Schaub up and then launching his own body up leaving his own feet so he could angle to drive Schaub into the ground with his full body weight.

GlassHalfFull
10-01-2012, 09:27 AM
I would be shocked if there were any fine on Quinn. The only similarity between the two plays is a QB got hit. Quinn never left his feet and never made any attempt to drive Locker into the ground. He drove straight through Locker with a textbook tackle. Hitting Schaub hard is not what got Miller in trouble. It was picking Schaub up and then launching his own body up so he could drive Schaub into the ground with his full body weight.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he deserves one. Just in this fine happy league, I could see him getting one.

And remember, I only saw the replay at the stadium, so I only have a quick impression to go by. It would be interesting to have Dutch make side by side gifs of the two plays.

Playoffs
10-01-2012, 10:16 AM
Quin just hit him, he didn't attempt to lift Locker and pile drive him into the ground.

I can't figure out how Locker hurt his left shoulder on the play?

infantrycak
10-01-2012, 10:52 AM
Quin just hit him, he didn't attempt to lift Locker and pile drive him into the ground.

I can't figure out how Locker hurt his left shoulder on the play?

He injured it in week 1 so I guess when he landed on it he re-aggravated or exacerbated it.

Playoffs
10-01-2012, 11:02 AM
He injured it in week 1 so I guess when he landed on it he re-aggravated or exacerbated it.
Ahh, okay. Just didn't look to me like he came down on it.

Double Barrel
10-01-2012, 11:05 AM
So, how do Texans fans feel about the hit Quin put on Locker???

I think we all better suck it up if the league decides to weigh in on it too. It sure looked like a good clean hit but Quin did land on top of Locker, Locker did end up on the bench from it....just saying....

The NFL could use that Quin hit as an example of how to do it right.

He put his helmet on the shoulder pad, wrapped him up, and tackled him clean. There was no launch, no helmet-to-helmet, and no pile driving. I knew someone would bring it up for comparison, but I honestly think the NFL could use that one as a clean example of doing it right.

Scooter
10-01-2012, 11:08 AM
i just saw it again and the quin hit was textbook. eyes up, didnt hit or lead with the helmet, wrapped up at the midsection, and didnt leave his feet to make the tackle. sure it was a hard hit, but it was clean.

The Pencil Neck
10-01-2012, 11:09 AM
The NFL could use that Quin hit as an example of how to do it right.

He put his on on the shoulder pad, wrapped him up, and tackled him clean. There was no launch, no helmet-to-helmet, and no pile driving. I knew someone would bring it up for comparison, but I honestly think the NFL could use that one as a clean example of doing it right.

^^^ This.

Quin didn't spear him, didn't hit helmet to helmet, and he didn't lift him up and drive him into the ground. OTOH, Von Miller picked Schaub up and drove him into the ground and Mays hit helmet to helmet.

HOU-TEX
10-01-2012, 11:12 AM
I see that as an illegal hit too. I didn't see that as an illegal hit a few years back before they changed the rules...but you just can't pick up a qb and drive him into the turf in today's game.

Agreed. I consider this tackle to be close to text book. Unfortunately for Von, he did it to a QB

Playoffs
10-01-2012, 01:18 PM
http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/files/2012/10/Texans-Defense-Crushes-Jake-Locker-e1349107620789.png

Dutchrudder
10-01-2012, 01:26 PM
Looks legit to me, but does anyone else think Antonio Smith looks unnaturally tall in that photo?

And hey, look at KJ checking the QB's eyes to see where he's throwing! :D

utahmark
10-01-2012, 01:28 PM
Did Quin get credit for that forced fumble?

Vinny
10-01-2012, 01:52 PM
I rewound this a couple of times and told myself that if the Titans would have picked up this blitz Watt would have had another clean sack since Jake wasn't looking at the hot wr (on his right) with his head swung around (the wr identified the blitz) to take the pass. This seems to be the only way teams can stop Watt now days.

http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/files/2012/10/Texans-Defense-Crushes-Jake-Locker-e1349107620789.png

Playoffs
10-01-2012, 01:55 PM
... does anyone else think Antonio Smith looks unnaturally tall in that photo?He spoke of a secret ninja spell he was going to cast against the Titans ..... :hmmm:

GP
10-01-2012, 03:41 PM
http://blog.chron.com/texanschick/files/2012/10/Texans-Defense-Crushes-Jake-Locker-e1349107620789.png


JJ Watt looks like this in that photo:


http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m44uhsPJH31qhpx4lo1_500.jpg

Dutchrudder
10-01-2012, 03:46 PM
So you're saying he's the Juggerwatt?

GP
10-02-2012, 08:35 AM
So you're saying he's the Juggerwatt?

http://www.tenaflyguy.com/laughing.gif

BlueSteel
10-04-2012, 05:22 AM
i wonder if all this sticking up for miller has to do with him having gone to a&m

ding ding ding!!! :)

BlueSteel
10-04-2012, 05:30 AM
So, how do Texans fans feel about the hit Quin put on Locker???

I think we all better suck it up if the league decides to weigh in on it too. It sure looked like a good clean hit but Quin did land on top of Locker, Locker did end up on the bench from it....just saying....

Seriously?

That was a clean sack and I am 100% certain Quin will not be fined. He was unblocked and Locker never saw him coming. The only reason you would even bring up the fact that it was anything other than a sack is that Locker was injured. However, that injury was sustained earlier in the season and Locker was trying to play through it.

The league may look at the hit, but it was clean with no excessive antics aimed at injuring Locker. Heck... I still cannot figure out how the shoulder that was NOT hit got knocked out of the socket.

BlueSteel
10-04-2012, 05:38 AM
Did Quin get credit for that forced fumble?

I wondered the same thing. When I saw it at the stadium I was so busy screaming that I did not see the ball come out.

When I watched at home the ball clearly came out and when Quin swats at it all the players react like the play was whistled dead already.

You can tell in the picture that Locker is not in possession of the ball unless his arm started forward or the tuck rule came in since he was pumping it.