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SwoLy-D
09-25-2012, 01:45 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/25/nfl-suspends-joe-mays-one-game-for-hit-on-matt-schaub/

NFL suspends Joe Mays one game for hit on Matt Schaub

Posted by Michael David Smith on September 25, 2012, 2:20 PM EDT


Broncos linebacker Joe Mays has apologized for his vicious hit on Texans quarterback Matt Schaub on Sunday, but the NFL doesnít think an apology is enough. And the league office doesnít think a heavy fine is enough, either.

Instead, Mays has been suspended for one game for his helmet-to-helmet hit, according to ESPNís Adam Schefter. Mays will appeal the suspension.

The hit was absolutely brutal, knocking Schaubís helmet off and knocking off a piece of Schaubís ear, too. Amazingly, Schaub only missed one play, which the Texansí medical staff apparently felt was sufficient to be sure that Schaub hadnít suffered a concussion.

Mays is a fifth-year player who has started all three games for the Broncos this season. Last week he was suspended $7,875 for a roughing the passer penalty on Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan. When Mays drilled Schaub this week, the league office apparently decided that it would need a lot more than just a fine to get through to Mays that hits like that simply arenít accepted in the NFL.

--------
It should have been MORE, if you ask me. :mad:

Porky
09-25-2012, 01:49 PM
I'm pretty happy with that. I was expecting just a fine. The biggest revenge is that the Texans won the game!

eriadoc
09-25-2012, 01:52 PM
If I'm being completely honest, I don't think that hit was intended to be that vicious. I think he came in with the intent to hit him hard, but I don't think he wanted to hit him like that. He's short, his helmet hit Schaub in the face, but Schaub also ducked into it. Or he was whiplashed into it by the other guy hitting him at the same time, whichever you prefer.

The hit before it was a clear intent to injure, IMO. That guy has gotten off light because of the Mays hit. The ball was away, the guy was a step or two away from Schaub, and then not only did he hit him, but drove him a few steps before driving him into the turf. That was unnecessary.

I think Mays should get fined, but not suspended. If Cushing hit Manning like that, apologized, and said that it wasn't his intent to injure, would you be clamoring for a suspension? Just answer yourself. No need to convince us.

Mr teX
09-25-2012, 01:56 PM
The broncos board is going nuts right now...

Double Barrel
09-25-2012, 02:01 PM
When Mays lowered his head it looked like classic spearing to me. And the NFL apparently agrees with a 1 game suspension.

gwallaia
09-25-2012, 02:02 PM
I think it was hard hit but was not intentional. I think the suspension is too much.

Playoffs
09-25-2012, 02:05 PM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/0925/20120925__joe-mays~p1.jpg

HOU-TEX
09-25-2012, 02:06 PM
Also 50 large

Paul Kuharsky‏@espn_afcsouth

#Broncos S Joe Mays has been suspended for one game and fined $50,000 for hit on defenseless Matt Schaub. #Texans

Texans Spirit
09-25-2012, 02:13 PM
the way i see it, 3 strikes and you're out for the season.


THAT will get his and every other player's attention.

:roast:

Jackie Chiles
09-25-2012, 02:17 PM
I think the suspension is justified, Broncos fans would feel the same way if one of our guys put that hit on Manning. Heck, any team would regardless of the QB. I was absolutely livid at the time because it was back to back cheapshots but reading about Joe Mays going up to Schaub after the game and apologizing brought me back to earth. On to Tennessee.

toronto
09-25-2012, 02:18 PM
LOL the NFL can't win. They finally get something right this week and I've watched twitter and nfl fans/players go nuts again.

The sight of Schaub's helmet popping off and the shot of his ear is what did Mays in here. It just looks horrific.

eriadoc
09-25-2012, 02:18 PM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/0925/20120925__joe-mays~p1.jpg

Ear looks OK in that pic, doesn't it?

Thorn
09-25-2012, 02:21 PM
meh.....**** Denver and their fans. That hit was suspension worthy.

When Denver fans are done being pissed they lost then they can be pissed about this. LOL

eriadoc
09-25-2012, 02:23 PM
I retract my earlier post about not thinking it was deliberate intent to injure. DB posted this in another thread, and I hadn't seen this angle yet. It looks like a pretty clear case of leading with the crown of the helmet. Should have suspended his ass for a couple games.

Here's a really clear video (http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/09/24/john-fox-joe-mays-hurt-matt-shaub/15914/?source=rsshomeblog) of the hit. There is no doubt that it was illegal.

TheDrifter
09-25-2012, 02:25 PM
With Del Rio calling the shots on D...

Pretty sure it was intentional. This is how he "coaches." If he can't out scheme you (often) he'll settle for trying to injure people.

Texanmike02
09-25-2012, 02:34 PM
My first thought after the play was "If my QB's neck was held together with bubblegum and duct tape I wouldn't be headhunting". I don't think it was just that hit either. If you ask me it was the combination of the two hits in succession that was so sick. 1 game and some pocket lint, I'm good with that. If he comes back and does it again then things get real dicey.

Mike

getball2dre
09-25-2012, 02:55 PM
Justice is served.

Playoffs
09-25-2012, 02:56 PM
Ear looks OK in that pic, doesn't it?
Look at the very tip of Schaub's nose, then move your eyes horizontally to the right on that line ..... does that look like Bit-O-Ear to you?

Hervoyel
09-25-2012, 03:04 PM
The broncos board is going nuts right now...

They all got their "Bronco-Vision Goggles (TM)" on. See nothing wrong with it until it happens to Peyton.

gwallaia
09-25-2012, 03:09 PM
They all got their "Bronco-Vision Goggles (TM)" on. See nothing wrong with it until it happens to Peyton.

If a hit like that would happen on NFL Poster Boy Peyton Manning, the guilty player(s) would be heavily fined, suspended the remainder of the season, and have their first born taken from them.

Texan_Bill
09-25-2012, 03:12 PM
The broncos board is going nuts right now...

Why?? Because they just realized that they weren't nearly as good as they thought they were going into the season??

TimeKiller
09-25-2012, 03:14 PM
I think Mays should get fined, but not suspended. If Cushing hit Manning like that, apologized, and said that it wasn't his intent to injure, would you be clamoring for a suspension? Just answer yourself. No need to convince us.

We wouldn't have to clamor for anything. We, including Cushing, would all know it would be coming.

paycheck71
09-25-2012, 03:15 PM
Ear looks OK in that pic, doesn't it?

This is like .01 sec after the hit. The ear hasn't had a chance to bleed yet.

Hervoyel
09-25-2012, 03:19 PM
If a hit like that would happen on NFL Poster Boy Peyton Manning, the guilty player(s) would be heavily fined, suspended the remainder of the season, and have their first born taken from them.

To be raised by Archie as another "Manning" and programmed with elite QB knowledge through his junior year in college before having his draft rights awarded exclusively to the Broncos for the hit placed on Peyton over two decades before.

SheTexan
09-25-2012, 03:26 PM
I didn't know about the fine until I read this thread. Glad to know they hit him with a stiff one, cause a one game suspension is not enough. JMO! Dude can apologize all he wants, and Matt can believe him if he chooses, BUT, it's pretty obvious he hit him with intent to injure. Those guys know what they're doing, esp one's coached by Del Rio.

eriadoc
09-25-2012, 03:28 PM
This is like .01 sec after the hit. The ear hasn't had a chance to bleed yet.

I'm not looking for blood. I'm looking for deformation.

TexansFanatic
09-25-2012, 03:38 PM
I retract my earlier post about not thinking it was deliberate intent to injure. DB posted this in another thread, and I hadn't seen this angle yet. It looks like a pretty clear case of leading with the crown of the helmet. Should have suspended his ass for a couple games.

Glad you came to your senses. I read your first post and couldn't believe it.

That mothereffer should have been suspended for multiple games. And the fact that Von Miller got the roughing call on the previous play tells me beyond a shadow of a doubt there was a coordinated effort to get Schaub out of the game.

Del Rio is a POS.

The Pencil Neck
09-25-2012, 03:44 PM
I didn't know about the fine until I read this thread. Glad to know they hit him with a stiff one, cause a one game suspension is not enough. JMO! Dude can apologize all he wants, and Matt can believe him if he chooses, BUT, it's pretty obvious he hit him with intent to injure. Those guys know what they're doing, esp one's coached by Del Rio.

The fine is $50,000 but that 1 game suspension costs that guy something like $208,000. Not saying he shouldn't have been fined but that 1 game suspension isn't just a chance to get some R&R. That hurts in the old pocketbook. That's almost like losing a month's pay -- 1/16 vs. 1/12.

NastyNate
09-25-2012, 03:55 PM
From DB's angle I change my mind. He definitely tries to missile in on Schaub and the punishment fits the penalty.

Dutchrudder
09-25-2012, 04:00 PM
From DB's angle I change my mind. He definitely tries to missile in on Schaub and the punishment fits the penalty.

In case anyone else was wondering what yall were talking about, this is the view from an article DB linked in the other thread:

http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/schaub-hit-9-23-12.gif

DBCooper
09-25-2012, 04:03 PM
Schaub has a bullseye on him that's for sure.

But I think all this beating on Schaub is just going to piss off one of best teams in football.

Texas T
09-25-2012, 04:13 PM
In case anyone else was wondering what yall were talking about, this is the view from an article DB linked in the other thread:

http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/schaub-hit-9-23-12.gif

Damn it looks even worse after the game. I was pissed when it happened but from this clip you can really tell-led with the crown of his helmet and launched into Matt. I'm really, really impressed with Matt after this-he's one tough SOB.

Vinny
09-25-2012, 04:18 PM
Damn it looks even worse after the game. I was pissed when it happened but from this clip you can really tell-led with the crown of his helmet and launched into Matt. I'm really, really impressed with Matt after this-he's one tough SOB.yeah, all you gotta do is watch his arms to see his intent. He made sure he got them out of the way so that the helmet has full impact without anything cushioning the blow. There was no intent to wrap up.

nero THE zero
09-25-2012, 04:23 PM
yeah, all you gotta do is watch his arms to see his intent. He made sure he got them out of the way so that the helmet has full impact without anything cushioning the blow. There was no intent to wrap up.

Direct shot on the jaw, too. He was literally trying to knock him out.

texanhead08
09-25-2012, 04:28 PM
I think the reason he was suspended is because he was fined last week for a hit on Matt Ryan. That previous infraction is what got him suspended.

nero THE zero
09-25-2012, 04:30 PM
Also, here's Mays' quote:
“I’m just trying to hurry up and get to him before he gets the ball off,” Mays said. “But he got the ball off, and after the release, he kind of ducked his head. As soon as he ducked his head, it was a bang-bang play. I knew as soon as it happened, I’m going to get fined for that.”

Rewatch the GIF. Anyone think Schaub ducked his head there?

(He didn't.)

gwallaia
09-25-2012, 04:32 PM
After watching the video, and Vinny's quote below I change my original opinion of the hit.

yeah, all you gotta do is watch his arms to see his intent. He made sure he got them out of the way so that the helmet has full impact without anything cushioning the blow. There was no intent to wrap up.

hookinreds
09-25-2012, 04:52 PM
Why?? Because they just realized that they weren't nearly as good as they thought they were going into the season??

"They are who we thought they were"

hookinreds
09-25-2012, 04:56 PM
Glad you came to your senses. I read your first post and couldn't believe it.

That mothereffer should have been suspended for multiple games. And the fact that Von Miller got the roughing call on the previous play tells me beyond a shadow of a doubt there was a coordinated effort to get Schaub out of the game.

Del Rio is a POS.

My thoughts exactly....after one PF call, anyone is going to be thinking in the back of their head that if they get a PF called on the next play, their coach is going to be pissed off. That is of course unless they were told to get Schaub out to the game and knew there would be no hell to pay on the sideline.

steelbtexan
09-25-2012, 04:58 PM
At most Mays should've been fined.

That was a clean hit.

A very hard hit, and you know God'ell is trying to eliminate hard hitting in the game.

I would like to hear God'ell or Andersons explination for the suspensions. Mays was intending to injure MS? The job of an NFL LB is to hit any player with the ball as hard as he can? Is that not football anymore? When players get hit hard sometimes they get hurt.

Ask guys that played in the 60-early 80's and they will tell you that's the way the game is suposed to be played.

ObsiWan
09-25-2012, 05:01 PM
At most Mays should've been fined.

That was a clean hit.

A very hard hit, and you know God'ell is trying to eliminate hard hitting in the game.

I would like to hear God'ell or Andersons explination for the suspensions. Mays was intending to injure MS? The job of an NFL LB is to hit any player with the ball as hard as he can? Is that not football anymore? When players get hit hard sometimes they get hurt.

Ask guys that played in the 60-early 80's and they will tell you that's the way the game is suposed to be played.

yeah... and that's why half of them don't remember who they are once they get past 50.

Stemp
09-25-2012, 05:04 PM
Crown of May's helmet hitting Schaub's facemask
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/427820_4488258695765_1537947771_n.jpg

Opposite view. May's helmet is high and hit's Schaub's facemask causing it to fly off.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/156568_4488263535886_648330063_n.jpg

Double Barrel
09-25-2012, 05:12 PM
At most Mays should've been fined.

That was a clean hit.

A very hard hit, and you know God'ell is trying to eliminate hard hitting in the game.

I would like to hear God'ell or Andersons explination for the suspensions. Mays was intending to injure MS? The job of an NFL LB is to hit any player with the ball as hard as he can? Is that not football anymore? When players get hit hard sometimes they get hurt.

Ask guys that played in the 60-early 80's and they will tell you that's the way the game is suposed to be played.

It's funny that you should mention the 60-early 80's, because those retired players now admit that they were hitting with intent to injure. Strange how the truth comes out when it no longer has the ability to impact careers and contracts.

It is naive to believe that defenders no long possess the same attitudes that they did 20 years ago. Of course they are trying to take out opponents. It's silly to act like they are not.

And with regards to Mays, how does anyone really know his intentions? Some folks seem to be apologists on his behalf, but the truth is it's just speculation, either way.

However, what is fact is his technique in a clearly documented tackle. His head is intentionally down, his legs are launching like a missile, and his arms are wide open, which reveals a lack of desire to wrap up the QB. That is not even disputable at this point.

I know you like hard hitting football and appreciate the the scab refs letting these guys hit each other more than usual. But c'mon, that's so obvious with Mays that it's not even disputable. Even those that were previously defending him are changing their minds after seeing a clear video of it.

infantrycak
09-25-2012, 05:19 PM
At most Mays should've been fined.

That was a clean hit.

Maybe under rules you want in place but under the current rules that was a blatantly illegal hit.

Not directed to you unless you fall into this camp in claiming it was a clean hit - I can't believe there are people blind enough to say there was no helmet to helmet contact. Michael Wilbon for example just said it on PTI. First off it is obvious in the film. Second - what you think his helmet, which was on tight enough to take part of his ear off as it left, just decided to abandon ship? If there was no contact then why did it fly off in the opposite direction Schaub's head was moving?

DBCooper
09-25-2012, 05:20 PM
At most Mays should've been fined.

That was a clean hit.

A very hard hit, and you know God'ell is trying to eliminate hard hitting in the game.

I would like to hear God'ell or Andersons explination for the suspensions. Mays was intending to injure MS? The job of an NFL LB is to hit any player with the ball as hard as he can? Is that not football anymore? When players get hit hard sometimes they get hurt.

Ask guys that played in the 60-early 80's and they will tell you that's the way the game is suposed to be played.

That's a head-hunter.

hookinreds
09-25-2012, 05:20 PM
Really going to suck for the Broncos since they are already short because of D.J. ďdidnít submit a human sampleĒ Williams.

Texan_Bill
09-25-2012, 05:25 PM
In case anyone else was wondering what yall were talking about, this is the view from an article DB linked in the other thread:

http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/schaub-hit-9-23-12.gif


Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left.

Signed,

Jim Garrison

ESAD2-14
09-25-2012, 05:58 PM
Another angle of the hit. Pretty apparent Mays caught Schaub full on with his helmet, and it was Mays not Schaub who lowered his head.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/files/2012/09/SCHAUB.HIT_.cropped.jpg.jpg-306x204.jpg

Only reason for Broncos fans to dispute this is out of pure homerism.

SheTexan
09-25-2012, 06:19 PM
Goood Lord above!! After watching that and looking at the pics, I got chills. Scary!!

Sunday, we need to give Matt the LOUDEST and longest welcome home chant known to TEXAN football!! That boy deserves some LOVE from his fans!!

steelbtexan
09-25-2012, 06:27 PM
After watching the video, and Vinny's quote below I change my original opinion of the hit.

^^^^
Me too

Goatcheese
09-25-2012, 06:28 PM
At most Mays should've been fined.

That was a clean hit.

A very hard hit, and you know God'ell is trying to eliminate hard hitting in the game.

I would like to hear God'ell or Andersons explination for the suspensions. Mays was intending to injure MS? The job of an NFL LB is to hit any player with the ball as hard as he can? Is that not football anymore? When players get hit hard sometimes they get hurt.

Ask guys that played in the 60-early 80's and they will tell you that's the way the game is suposed to be played.

Crack pipe... put it down.

steelbtexan
09-25-2012, 06:37 PM
Crack pipe... put it down.

No crack pipe here.

After seeing the gif my opinion has changed.

That was a cheap shot.

However it still would've happened if the regular officials were on the field. My dislike for God'ell may have blinded me. LOL

Norg
09-25-2012, 06:41 PM
what side was that on Brown or Newton ???? or was it a inside blitz ?????

My gwad i more mad at our oline they need to protect matt better !!!!!!!! hes not the type of QB who can take thoes ficous Hits like dat

Brisco_County
09-25-2012, 06:41 PM
I think one game is just.

Mays knew exactly where he was hitting Schaub. His profession is to hit people.

He also knows the effects of hitting specific areas. For instance, if you hit someone in the chin or jaw, it tends to knock them out.

And if you find yourself slightly persuaded that Mays didn't mean to target the jaw, consider how Jared Allen pleaded his innocence despite video evidence that he was targeting Schaub's knees. Twice.

Yeah, clean hit, Denver fans. I guess this professional athlete just doesn't know the dimensions of his own body.

GP
09-25-2012, 06:51 PM
No crack pipe here.

After seeing the gif my opinion has changed.

That was a cheap shot.

However it still would've happened if the regular officials were on the field. My dislike for God'ell may have blinded me. LOL

What the hell made you think it was a clean hit in the first place then???? You saw it, in order to form an opinion and post it here, and yet NOW you reluctantly (after having posted numerous times prior that it was a clean hit) say you think the animated GIF shows it was indeed an illegal hit.

That's sort of puzzling. But I think maybe you knew you had made a stand, and we all tend to stand by our first-formed and first-posted opinion (I know I do)...it's just that even when I watched it on TV, even in the original play (not just the replay) I could tell he was out to hurt Schaub.

IMO, the whole Texans team should have flooded the field and beat his ass right then and there. You wouldn't see any future blitzer do that sort of crap.

That was the most blatant attempt to hurt our QB I have seen since Fat Albert back in his days a Titans player. The hit that hurt Matt's shoulder and put him out for the remainder of the season, or eat least most of it IIRC. Well, actually, Von Miller before the Mays hit was a blatant attempt to hurt our QB.

Miller should be suspended too, actually. Leaving his feet and intentionally driving Schaub into the ground while using the helmet to spear into him at the end of it.

Broncos fans, if you're here reading this: You know damn well that was cheap **** your players pulled.

Corrosion
09-25-2012, 06:56 PM
When Mays lowered his head it looked like classic spearing to me. And the NFL apparently agrees with a 1 game suspension.

Didnt he also bring his arms up after contact .... ? Or was that me seeing things ? :kitten:

GP
09-25-2012, 07:00 PM
Didnt he also bring his arms up after contact .... ? Or was that me seeing things ? :kitten:

He throws his arms BACKWARD, like DeCaprio in Titanic "I'm king of the world!"

No attempt, whatsoever, to make a true tackle. It was nothing but helmet. He even intentionally lowers his helmet just before making impact...making it even more sinister.

He should have gotten 2 games, maybe even 3, since he had a previous episode of this vs. Falcons. And Miller should have received 1 game. I mean, ****, they're not going to put real refs out there no matter what....so why not just start suspending guys hardcore and go all the way with the power trip? I would if I were Goodell, he's got the NFL world by its balls and now's the time for him to do whatever he wants and sit back and grin while doing it.

Lucky
09-25-2012, 07:02 PM
Back and to the left.
I'm glad Matt is OK and I could laugh at this. Very funny.

I think we all know who is to blame for this. Typical JDR. I'm surprised he hasn't been busted for bounties.

GP
09-25-2012, 07:07 PM
I'm glad Matt is OK and I could laugh at this. Very funny.

I think we all know who is to blame for this. Typical JDR. I'm surprised he hasn't been busted for bounties.

It would really be sad if some Texans player, oh...say, Brandon Brooks, just somehow motored out on a screen play (going as fast as he can run) and then accidentally rolled out of bounds and square into the side of Del Rio's knee.

That would be an unfortunate accident.

Not.

HJam72
09-25-2012, 07:11 PM
You have to understand 2 things before you do something like that:

1. Schaub is an elite QB.

2. We are a South Coast team. :)

GlassHalfFull
09-25-2012, 07:14 PM
I think one game is just.

Mays knew exactly where he was hitting Schaub. His profession is to hit people.

He also knows the effects of hitting specific areas. For instance, if you hit someone in the chin or jaw, it tends to knock them out.

And if you find yourself slightly persuaded that Mays didn't mean to target the jaw, consider how Jared Allen pleaded his innocence despite video evidence that he was targeting Schaub's knees. Twice.

Yeah, clean hit, Denver fans. I guess this professional athlete just doesn't know the dimensions of his own body.

I want to add to this, Matt Schaub is 6'5". You have to work a bit to hit him that high.

HJam72
09-25-2012, 07:21 PM
“I’m just trying to hurry up and get to him before he gets the ball off,” Mays said. “But he got the ball off, and after the release, he kind of ducked his head. As soon as he ducked his head, it was a bang-bang play. I knew as soon as it happened, I’m going to get fined for that.”

Then why didn't you put your arm(s) up to try and grab his arm or stop the pass? Instead, Mays' arms are so far down he didn't even try to wrap up. I think it's kind of comical that he didn't even try to push with his arms; he just flat-out speared Schaub's face-mask.

PS-not that anyone would care here, but I always remember when I got called for spearing in the 5th grade optimist league. I didn't even know what spearing was and thought you were s'posed to do that, LOL.

Corrosion
09-25-2012, 07:37 PM
PS-not that anyone would care here, but I always remember when I got called for spearing in the 5th grade optimist league. I didn't even know what spearing was and thought you were s'posed to do that, LOL.

I remember when the only time they called spearing was when the guy was on the ground and you stuck your helmet on him ..... or the headslaps of a HOFER.


My how the game as changed.

Goatcheese
09-25-2012, 07:41 PM
What I find unacceptable, is that Mays and Miller were not repeatedly chop blocked on the next few plays. Those dudes should have left the field on an equipment cart.

HJam72
09-25-2012, 07:43 PM
I remember when the only time they called spearing was when the guy was on the ground and you stuck your helmet on him ..... or the headslaps of a HOFER.


My how the game as changed.

IIRC, I ran into the back of a ball-carrier who was trying to run backwards with a couple of my teammates holding onto him. Hit 'em right in the small of the back. I did TRY to wrap up, but I think I just hit 'im hard and bounced off, LOL. I was a corner (flanker). Ref called my number and I thought, "What the heck is spearing?"

Luv_ya_blue
09-25-2012, 09:02 PM
The term "spearing" has changed quite a bit, just over the past few years that I've been officiating. Used to be "launching yourself" and only ever with the "crown of the helmet." Then it was changed to "initial contact" with the crown of the helmet. "Crown" was always defined as the very topmost point of the helmet. Then it was changed to simply "leading with the helmet." If the upper part of the helmet makes the initial contact these days....you've got yourself a "spearing" call. Anything above the facemask that makes initial contact is considered a spear. Even saw a running back get flagged for "spearing" because he lowered his headgear and hit the defender in center mass of his chest--ala Earl Campbell, and up ended him.

But I've called ballgames in 3 different states and each one of them words it just a little bit differently.

FWIW...

Texan_Bill
09-25-2012, 09:04 PM
I'm glad Matt is OK and I could laugh at this. Very funny.

I think we all know who is to blame for this. Typical JDR. I'm surprised he hasn't been busted for bounties.

Right on brother! I would not have made that joke without knowing Schaub was okay!!

JDR is a POS and he will get caught...... Some day!

*EDIT*

"Back and to the left*

Texan_Bill
09-25-2012, 09:10 PM
I want to add to this, Matt Schaub is 6'5". You have to work a bit to hit him that high.

:thinking: Thus, launching? No???

Texan_Bill
09-25-2012, 09:15 PM
The term "spearing" has changed quite a bit, just over the past few years that I've been officiating. Used to be "launching yourself" and only ever with the "crown of the helmet." Then it was changed to "initial contact" with the crown of the helmet. "Crown" was always defined as the very topmost point of the helmet. Then it was changed to simply "leading with the helmet." If the upper part of the helmet makes the initial contact these days....you've got yourself a "spearing" call. Anything above the facemask that makes initial contact is considered a spear. Even saw a running back get flagged for "spearing" because he lowered his headgear and hit the defender in center mass of his chest--ala Earl Campbell, and up ended him.

But I've called ballgames in 3 different states and each one of them words it just a little bit differently.

FWIW...

Schaub's head lowered because of his follow-thru, throwing the pass.. I'm not sure I get you're point here Pastor. Brother, help me out with your point!!!

Corrosion
09-25-2012, 09:34 PM
I'm glad Matt is OK and I could laugh at this. Very funny.

I think we all know who is to blame for this. Typical JDR. I'm surprised he hasn't been busted for bounties.

He plays them off as Christmas gifts ..... :cool:

GP
09-25-2012, 09:36 PM
Schaub's head lowered because of his follow-thru, throwing the pass..

I don't think it did, Bill. He had just released the ball...it was simultaneous. In fact, he was actually bracing a bit (knowing it was coming) and would have probably been knocked out cold had he stepped into it on a normal release.

EDIT: After looking at the animated GIF again, it's clear that Schaub did not lower his head due to some sort of follow-through motion. He was upright and seems to instinctively try to remain ramrod straight because he saw the pressure zeroing in on him. His head swivels slightly to the left, but dyckhead's face mask is already catching him on the jawline at that point.

How Schaub wasn't knocked out, I will never know. He was hit square on the jawline of the helmet. That's a helluva' shot to take to a sensitive area prone to knock-out.

infantrycak
09-25-2012, 09:42 PM
Well, actually, Von Miller before the Mays hit was a blatant attempt to hurt our QB.

Miller should be suspended too, actually. Leaving his feet and intentionally driving Schaub into the ground while using the helmet to spear into him at the end of it.

Agreed. Miller is getting off because the Mays hit drew all the attention. Deserved a fine at a minimum.

Maybe Dutch can make a gif of the Miller hit as well. :kitten:

Watching it during the game it looked to me like Miller made a conscious effort to pick Schaub up prior to launching himself with an intentional downward body angle to maximize the impact.

Schaub's head lowered because of his follow-thru, throwing the pass..

Definitely - it was minimal and a natural part of his follow through.

EDIT: After looking at the animated GIF again, it's clear that Schaub did not lower his head due to some sort of follow-through motion.

Putting aside that I think there clearly is a slight dip in the video clip - stand up and make a hard throwing motion while stepping into it as a QB would do rather than some backyard game. At the tail end of the motion (for right handed folks) your shoulders will be rotating and your head will be coming slightly forward thereby lowering the chin. There is also a natural flexion of the trunk forward to assist the power to the pass which results in a dip of the upper body as well.

Wolf
09-25-2012, 09:54 PM
Miller's hit is that where he "pile drove" him in the ground?

sorry, didn't see the game, but a guy at work was telling me that a denver player basically wrapped up Schaub and drove him down into the ground

infantrycak
09-25-2012, 10:05 PM
Miller's hit is that where he "pile drove" him in the ground?

Yes. It was the play immediately prior to the Mays hit. I haven't had a chance to watch it again but I would say Miller wrapped Schaub, put considerable effort into picking him up rather than tackling him and then launched himself up and rotated so he could pile drive Schaub with his full body weight centered with his head in Schaub's chest.

The Pencil Neck
09-25-2012, 10:08 PM
Yes. It was the play immediately prior to the Mays hit. I haven't had a chance to watch it again but I would say Miller wrapped Schaub, put considerable effort into picking him up rather than tackling him and then launched himself up and rotated so he could pile drive Schaub with his full body weight centered with his head in Schaub's chest.

And as Schaub was pushing himself to his feet, he said, "Really, ya big puss. Is that ALL you got?"

And then the Mays thing.

And then Schaub hung another 10 points on them.

Texan_Bill
09-25-2012, 10:12 PM
Damnit ALL!

Schaub is clearly injury prone!! What?? He dislocates his shoulder and misses a few plays before returning AND has the audascity to lose a chunk of his ear..... What an effin' Puh-Ceh!!!!

Rey
09-25-2012, 10:44 PM
The term "spearing" has changed quite a bit, just over the past few years that I've been officiating. Used to be "launching yourself" and only ever with the "crown of the helmet." Then it was changed to "initial contact" with the crown of the helmet. "Crown" was always defined as the very topmost point of the helmet. Then it was changed to simply "leading with the helmet." If the upper part of the helmet makes the initial contact these days....you've got yourself a "spearing" call. Anything above the facemask that makes initial contact is considered a spear. Even saw a running back get flagged for "spearing" because he lowered his headgear and hit the defender in center mass of his chest--ala Earl Campbell, and up ended him.

But I've called ballgames in 3 different states and each one of them words it just a little bit differently.

FWIW...

Good post. Players are being taught differently these days. I was always taught to put the screws in the front of your helmet (or your hair line) into the opponent. It was pretty universal.

Now it seems like different players are being taught different things and honestly I don't know how they expect guys to tackle anymore. If you lead with your chest, that'd just be dumb. You are making yourself vulnerable.

If you lead with a shoulder you are even more likely to drop your head and lead with the very top of your head.

I guess the biggest thing now is aiming points, but with a qb standing in the pocket it's a little easier to aim for the neck down to the thighs, but even that can be challenging at times. With guys on the move the odds of you finding that perfect aiming point decrease even more.

silvrhand
09-25-2012, 11:35 PM
At most Mays should've been fined.

That was a clean hit.

A very hard hit, and you know God'ell is trying to eliminate hard hitting in the game.

I would like to hear God'ell or Andersons explination for the suspensions. Mays was intending to injure MS? The job of an NFL LB is to hit any player with the ball as hard as he can? Is that not football anymore? When players get hit hard sometimes they get hurt.

Ask guys that played in the 60-early 80's and they will tell you that's the way the game is suposed to be played.

That was not a clean hit the way the game is played today that was leading with the crown of the helmet all the way.

ChampionTexan
09-25-2012, 11:39 PM
I want to add to this, Matt Schaub is 6'5". You have to work a bit to hit him that high.

Yeah, but he's got a long face...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OtYVGHM1uzg/Tl-DJ1My8vI/AAAAAAAAAvU/sWUPLAvep90/s400/schaub.jpg
...so it's like having the chin of a 6-footer. :kitten:

HJam72
09-25-2012, 11:50 PM
Yeah, but he's got a long face...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OtYVGHM1uzg/Tl-DJ1My8vI/AAAAAAAAAvU/sWUPLAvep90/s400/schaub.jpg
...so it's like having the chin of a 6-footer. :kitten:

Dang, how do you not hit that chin? :thinking:

JamesBill
09-26-2012, 12:57 AM
Damnit ALL!

Schaub is clearly injury prone!! What?? He dislocates his shoulder and misses a few plays before returning AND has the audascity to lose a chunk of his ear..... What an effin' Puh-Ceh!!!!

If Schaub wasn't injury prone we would have been in the SB last year. Toughness or having a high pain tolerance level, isn't the same as injury prone. He played on a crushed foot, he is clearly tough. That is way harder than getting smashed and coming back in the next play.

infantrycak
09-26-2012, 03:22 AM
Here is the Miller tackle thanks to Dutch:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/BroncosMillerHit1.gif

You can see he not only wraps Schaub but grabs him under his butt to pick him up and then dives forward. Clearly a malicious hit IMO. Should have been fined.

GlassHalfFull
09-26-2012, 04:40 AM
Schaub absorbed two ridiculous hits in a row in the Denver game and kept on trucking.

Those 2 hits are why there are rules in the NFL about how you can hit the QB. Nobody can hold up over repeatedly getting hit like that.

And anyone who wants to label him injury prone, should probably go let Von Miller and Mays hit them like that for an hour and see how they hold up. Or better yet, just go play in traffic for a bit and see how that feels.

I know, I know, we are going to get in some new long discussion about what is and isn't injury prone vs soft vs people's opinions on old school football.

Tracy McGrady was soft, Yao Ming was injury prone. Schaub sustains legitimate injuries in the field of play.

infantrycak
09-26-2012, 04:52 AM
Schaub sustains legitimate injuries in the field of play.

Hell I would say illegitimate injuries since three of them have been flagged and fined hits. One was so flagrant the NFL sent a memo out to the refs to remind them they have the power to eject players based on a single flagrant play.

GlassHalfFull
09-26-2012, 04:57 AM
Hell I would say illegitimate injuries since three of them have been flagged and fined hits. One was so flagrant the NFL sent a memo out to the refs to remind them they have the power to eject players based on a single flagrant play.

I'll buy that. And what are you doing up and posting at the ridiculous hour of the day?

infantrycak
09-26-2012, 05:02 AM
I'll buy that. And what are you doing up and posting at the ridiculous hour of the day?

Never been a sleeper (but I am headed off shortly). What's your excuse?

SheTexan
09-26-2012, 08:22 AM
YET, there are still members of this board who think the loss of Winston and Briesel was justified! Would they have been able to stop Miller or Mays?? Hummmm, we'll never know, but, I do think they would have prevented such a vicious hit. JMO!

Our Oline needs to BUCK it up FAST or we will be playing the rest of the season with TJ as our QB. I have my doubts that Denver will be the only team with intentions to bench Matt for the season. Coaches and players KNOW he has become one of the best, and the only way to stop him is to take him out! We haven't seen the last of this type of play!

HJam72
09-26-2012, 08:27 AM
YET, there are still members of this board who think the loss of Winston and Briesel was justified! Would they have been able to stop Miller or Mays?? Hummmm, we'll never know, but, I do think they would have prevented such a vicious hit. JMO!

Our Oline needs to BUCK it up FAST or we will be playing the rest of the season with TJ as our QB. I have my doubts that Denver will be the only team with intentions to bench Matt for the season. Coaches and players KNOW he has become one of the best, and the only way to stop him is to take him out! We haven't seen the last of this type of play!

That's why PAYBACK was and is a temptation..................Peyton.

Dutchrudder
09-26-2012, 08:31 AM
YET, there are still members of this board who think the loss of Winston and Briesel was justified! Would they have been able to stop Miller or Mays?? Hummmm, we'll never know, but, I do think they would have prevented such a vicious hit. JMO!

Our Oline needs to BUCK it up FAST or we will be playing the rest of the season with TJ as our QB. I have my doubts that Denver will be the only team with intentions to bench Matt for the season. Coaches and players KNOW he has become one of the best, and the only way to stop him is to take him out! We haven't seen the last of this type of play!

Possibly. You can see that it's a fake play-action pass to the left side, but watch Caldwell run right in front of Mays as he's going to the QB. I'm guessing he was expecting Newton to pick him up, since the whole line is shifting that direction. but Newton was engaged with another player. I have a better angle of this play, so I can make a gif of that later, but this hit was on Caldwell. He shouldn't have tried to plow into Von Miller (possibly payback for the last play). It allowed the MLB a free run at the QB.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/BroncosMays1.gif

steelbtexan
09-26-2012, 08:42 AM
That was not a clean hit the way the game is played today that was leading with the crown of the helmet all the way.

As I stated earlier after viewing the gif,

I WAS WRONG.

As I also stated earlier, I like this old style of NFL play. Todays players are getting a taste of what the players of the late 70's early 80's went through that made the NFL what it is today.

Before God'ell started wussifying it. I cant believe more people aren;t enjoying this brand of football.

steelbtexan
09-26-2012, 08:52 AM
What the hell made you think it was a clean hit in the first place then???? You saw it, in order to form an opinion and post it here, and yet NOW you reluctantly (after having posted numerous times prior that it was a clean hit) say you think the animated GIF shows it was indeed an illegal hit.

That's sort of puzzling. But I think maybe you knew you had made a stand, and we all tend to stand by our first-formed and first-posted opinion (I know I do)...it's just that even when I watched it on TV, even in the original play (not just the replay) I could tell he was out to hurt Schaub.

IMO, the whole Texans team should have flooded the field and beat his ass right then and there. You wouldn't see any future blitzer do that sort of crap.

That was the most blatant attempt to hurt our QB I have seen since Fat Albert back in his days a Titans player. The hit that hurt Matt's shoulder and put him out for the remainder of the season, or eat least most of it IIRC. Well, actually, Von Miller before the Mays hit was a blatant attempt to hurt our QB.

Miller should be suspended too, actually. Leaving his feet and intentionally driving Schaub into the ground while using the helmet to spear into him at the end of it.

Broncos fans, if you're here reading this: You know damn well that was cheap **** your players pulled.

Reluctant =no,

Numerous = no

I can admit when I'm wrong. Maybe you could use this as a learning tool also. The reason I posted what I did, was at 1st glance it appeared to me that MS tucked his head causing Mays to hit him in the helment. Once again I was WRONG.

Miller at the very least should fined. At first glance I thought his hit was more intentional than Mays hit.

Premier
09-26-2012, 08:53 AM
does this lady ever talk about anything other than brisiel and winston.. oh and stephen hill? smh schaub ran a naked, hes gonna be vulnerable to rushers, mays' intentions were to plant schaub from the get go. clowns like JDR get desperate when he cant stop what youre doing he should have been suspended too..

TexansFanatic
09-26-2012, 10:12 AM
You can see he not only wraps Schaub but grabs him under his butt to pick him up and then dives forward. Clearly a malicious hit IMO. Should have been fined.

Yep. And Schaub even pats Miller on the back a couple of times as if to say, "Hey, bud, the ball is gone." Still Miller keeps driving forward with his legs, clearly intending to slam Schaub to the turf. Dirty mofo.

HJam72
09-26-2012, 06:24 PM
The Miller tackle bothered me more than the Mays hit, because it was just so obvious he was trying to inflict unnecessary pain.

False Start
09-26-2012, 08:04 PM
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/Schaubear.gif

Luv_ya_blue
09-26-2012, 08:19 PM
Schaub's head lowered because of his follow-thru, throwing the pass.. I'm not sure I get you're point here Pastor. Brother, help me out with your point!!!

No real point Bill. Just making an observation of how "legal" vs "illegal" hits have changed over the past few years...just in the area of what's called a "spear," or what used to be a spear.

Not really commenting on the Schaub hit, although I felt like the first hit was more "illegal" than the second one. Just my opinion.

Texan_Bill
09-26-2012, 08:30 PM
No real point Bill. Just making an observation of how "legal" vs "illegal" hits have changed over the past few years...just in the area of what's called a "spear," or what used to be a spear.

Not really commenting on the Schaub hit, although I felt like the first hit was more "illegal" than the second one. Just my opinion.

No worries my brother! I just felt like Schuab's head turned towards the 8 o'clock as he was throwing the ball and than BAM!!! He takes one to the facemask!! Thus, being holyfield!!

BTW, Hope all is well!

Brisco_County
09-26-2012, 11:03 PM
The hit that Miller made on Schaub is clearly a grappling move called a double-leg takedown. You've probably seen it in MMA fights, but it evolved from wrestling and shoot fighting. You can trap your target as low as the knees, but you can also go high like Miller did. The reason Miller's hit was a double-leg and not a football hit was because he trapped his target by the legs, lifted, and drove his back into the ground. This is a deliberate, coordinated motion after the football has been released. He should be fined.

The Pencil Neck
09-27-2012, 12:05 AM
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/Schaubear.gif

lol

msr

76Texan
09-27-2012, 02:27 AM
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/Schaubear.gif

You're ridiculous, man, LOL!

Playoffs
09-27-2012, 06:30 AM
Adam Schefter @adamschefter
Fran Tarkenton said on Fox News that Broncos LB Joe Mays, who had a Van Gogh hit on Matt Schaub, "should have been suspended for one year."
1:58pm - 26 Sep 12

CloakNNNdagger
09-27-2012, 07:47 AM
http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/Schaubear.gif

Unbelievably hilarious! MSR.

SheTexan
09-27-2012, 10:02 AM
does this lady ever talk about anything other than brisiel and winston.. oh and stephen hill? smh schaub ran a naked, hes gonna be vulnerable to rushers, mays' intentions were to plant schaub from the get go. clowns like JDR get desperate when he cant stop what youre doing he should have been suspended too..

This LADY's name is Sandy, aka SheTexan, and YES I do talk about other things on this board!! I've backed off CONSIDERABLY after being HARASSED because of my opinion of off season moves. I simply do not have my nose stuck up RSs ass like some of you guys do! When this board ceases being an OPINION board then I will cease posting! I can't even remember the last time I mentioned S. Hill. I preferred him over Posey in the draft, but, such is life. We took our Oline from being one of the best in the NFL last year, to a work in progress, in a year where most people think we should be SB bound. Why mess with something that worked! JMO!!!! I don't want to argue this point anymore, and refuse to do so.

HOU-TEX
09-27-2012, 10:19 AM
Lmao at this guy. He doesn't bother trying to break the play down to prove innocence. He just listens to Mays and comes up with this drivel. What a dork

The play where Schaub got knocked silly by Mays will go down as an incomplete pass but, in reality, was a train wreck waiting to happen. At the precise moment when the Houston quarterback released the football, Denver defenders Mitch Unrein, Justin Bannan and Mays converged on the spot where Schaub stood unprotected.

The tendency for the modern football player to use his helmet as a weapon is a pet peeve of mine. But it's hard to assign malice to the blow delivered by Mays. Of course, I don't have the pedigree of working as a lingerie league ref, but I'm not sure I would have even thrown a flag for unnecessary roughness against Mays.

Rest here
http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_21639994/mark-kiszla-nfls-suspension-denver-broncos-joe-mays?source=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

SteveSlaton20
09-27-2012, 10:29 AM
At most Mays should've been fined.

That was a clean hit.

A very hard hit, and you know God'ell is trying to eliminate hard hitting in the game.

I would like to hear God'ell or Andersons explination for the suspensions. Mays was intending to injure MS? The job of an NFL LB is to hit any player with the ball as hard as he can? Is that not football anymore? When players get hit hard sometimes they get hurt.

Ask guys that played in the 60-early 80's and they will tell you that's the way the game is suposed to be played.

Um, no. I'm sure it's already be said, but Joe Mays hit him without wrapping up, helmet to helmet, and he actually lowered his head when he hit him. That's all illegal.

He got what he deserved.

Texan_Bill
09-27-2012, 10:37 AM
Lmao at this guy. He doesn't bother trying to break the play down to prove innocence. He just listens to Mays and comes up with this drivel. What a dork





Rest here
http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_21639994/mark-kiszla-nfls-suspension-denver-broncos-joe-mays?source=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

That douche.bag tried to compare Dick Butkis hits being just as vicious. Well duh jackass! That's why many of the players from that era are drooling all over themselves and barely know their names which is the reason why the league is trying to stamp out those types of hits.

I'm against the wussification of the game, but a head shot is a headshot.

GP
09-27-2012, 12:55 PM
Reluctant =no,

Numerous = no

I can admit when I'm wrong. Maybe you could use this as a learning tool also. The reason I posted what I did, was at 1st glance it appeared to me that MS tucked his head causing Mays to hit him in the helment. Once again I was WRONG.

Miller at the very least should fined. At first glance I thought his hit was more intentional than Mays hit.

I can learn something???

All I have learned is that in your hate of Goodell you tried to justify a very VERY bad, illegal hit that even if it were somehow deemed by the NFL to be legal...it goes against the spirit of the game.

You're so wrapped up in your own agenda and opinion about how Goodell is ruining "your" game that you tried to poo-poo the hit on Schaub. Only when other posters, here, climbed all over your ass for it did you cave on this one.

And if you changed your mind, it means you didn't have a well-informed opinion to begin with...which was (drum roll, please) your initial opinion based on your anti-Goodell bias that you repeat on here over and over.

And at the expense of our QB, btw. Don't go telling me I have some learning to do. You chose to pump your anti-Goodell agenda and didn't have a leg to stand upon. I do applaud you for having the common sense to actually WATCH the clip, though. That's progress. Congrats on owning up to the obvious. :barman:

steelbtexan
09-27-2012, 01:03 PM
This LADY's name is Sandy, aka SheTexan, and YES I do talk about other things on this board!! I've backed off CONSIDERABLY after being HARASSED because of my opinion of off season moves. I simply do not have my nose stuck up RSs ass like some of you guys do! When this board ceases being an OPINION board then I will cease posting! I can't even remember the last time I mentioned S. Hill. I preferred him over Posey in the draft, but, such is life. We took our Oline from being one of the best in the NFL last year, to a work in progress, in a year where most people think we should be SB bound. Why mess with something that worked! JMO!!!! I don't want to argue this point anymore, and refuse to do so.

You tell'em Sandy.

Although I can understand why thet didn't keep the OL in tact. (There wasn't enough $$$$ to re-sign all of the FA's. So Winston and Briesel were sacrificed.)

What I dont understand is why Rick didn't try to trade Winston or ask him to take a paycut. Instead Rick let him walk for nothing. Who knows maybe Rick did try to trade Winston and there were no takers. I doubt it though since Winston got a raise and a new contract with the Chiefs.

The Pencil Neck
09-27-2012, 01:40 PM
You tell'em Sandy.

Although I can understand why thet didn't keep the OL in tact. (There wasn't enough $$$$ to re-sign all of the FA's. So Winston and Briesel were sacrificed.)

What I dont understand is why Rick didn't try to trade Winston or ask him to take a paycut. Instead Rick let him walk for nothing. Who knows maybe Rick did try to trade Winston and there were no takers. I doubt it though since Winston got a raise and a new contract with the Chiefs.

In other words, Rick did him a favor.

I understand SheTexan being upset that the right side of our line was let go but I think she's more upset at who was let go and how.

I think the way Rick did it allowed Winston and Brisiel to get the best possible deals. It allowed them to name their price and choose their team. He could have traded them to some bottom-feeder and they wouldn't have gotten a chance to re-negotiate their contracts (assuming that they still had time left on their old deals, which I'm not sure about.)

I think Rick did Demeco a favor, too. He sent him to a team that could use Demeco the way he needed to be used and would give him a shot at the playoffs.

Dutchrudder
09-27-2012, 04:15 PM
http://www.mylerlaw.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/appeal_denied.jpg

DENVER -- Denver coach John Fox says the NFL has denied Broncos linebacker Joe Mays' appeal and he will miss Sunday's game against the Raiders.

The Texans' Matt Schaub lost a bit of his left ear lobe on the helmet-to-helmet hit he took from the Broncos' Joe Mays.

Mays was fined $50,000 and suspended for one game for his hit on Texans quarterback Matt Schaub last Sunday that sent Schaub's helmet flying and took off a chunk of his left ear.

The Broncos appealed the suspension, but the NFL denied it, Fox said, meaning Mays remains barred from the team's facilities until Monday.

The Broncos are also missing linebacker D.J. Williams, out six games for violating the league's banned-substances policy. Listed behind Mays on the depth chart is rookie Steven Johnson, though Fox did not disclose who would start at middle linebacker Sunday.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8432415/denver-broncos-linebacker-joe-mays-game-vs-oakland-raiders-appeal-denied

Thorn
09-27-2012, 04:34 PM
http://www.mylerlaw.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/appeal_denied.jpg




Good.