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Playoffs
09-25-2012, 11:32 AM
The NFL has issued the following statement regarding Golden Tate's winning touchdown reception for Seattle against Green Bay on Monday night:
In Monday's game between the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks, Seattle faced a 4th-and-10 from the Green Bay 24 with eight seconds remaining in the game.

Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson threw a pass into the end zone. Several players, including Seattle wide receiver Golden Tate and Green Bay safety M.D. Jennings, jumped into the air in an attempt to catch the ball.

While the ball is in the air, Tate can be seen shoving Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields to the ground. This should have been a penalty for offensive pass interference, which would have ended the game. It was not called and is not reviewable in instant replay.

When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball. Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player. The result of the play was a touchdown.

Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.

The result of the game is final.

Applicable rules to the play are as follows:

A player (or players) jumping in the air has not legally gained possession of the ball until he satisfies the elements of a catch listed here.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3 of the NFL Rule Book defines a catch:

A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:
(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

When a player (or players) is going to the ground in the attempt to catch a pass, Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 states:

Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 states:

Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

Say Watt
09-25-2012, 11:36 AM
**** the NFL. That is an insult to the intelligence of every single football fan around the world. Absolutely ridiculous for them to stick up for this.

:toropalm:

texanhead08
09-25-2012, 11:40 AM
Basketball reasons

Signed,
David Stern

gwallaia
09-25-2012, 11:42 AM
Sad day for the NFL.

GlassHalfFull
09-25-2012, 11:43 AM
:includeme:

Nothing I can say will add to this discussion.

The NFL is making a horrible decision. :toropalm:

Mr teX
09-25-2012, 11:48 AM
The NFL has issued the following statement regarding Golden Tate's winning touchdown reception for Seattle against Green Bay on Monday night:

A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:
(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).


http://allthingsd.com/files/2011/12/bob-esponja-ok.gif

Jennings secured control of the ball well before Tate did b/c he caught the ball with both hands from the jump.

& he also had control of the ball before Tate did so that effectively rules out simultaneous possession right there.........at least according to the letter of the rule.

The1ApplePie
09-25-2012, 11:48 AM
I've had to write some total bull**** spin in my day, and I did not envy the copywriter/PR guy that had to write this. This is some intelligence-insulting spin though. Reads like a lawyer had a hand in it, which is probably the case.

Should have thrown out some buzzwords like 'speed of the game" at least.

chicagotexan2
09-25-2012, 12:01 PM
B.S. and they know it. All I can say to make me feel ok about this b.s. call is that I'm glad I'm not a Packers fan. Pathetic 'explanation'.

ChrisG
09-25-2012, 12:12 PM
New strategy for last minute hail mary passes:

The offensive team should prevent the defender from touching the ground until they can get a hand on the ball. That way it is a "simultaneous" catch, because possession doesn't start until his touches the ground, while he is in the air apparently he is in the twilight zone where the ball is still fair game. Have everyone hold him up. LOL, this is a complete joke by the NFL

HoustonFrog
09-25-2012, 12:32 PM
This makes it even worse. Seriously how is this Simultaneous!!

http://twitpic.com/ay40m6

http://imageshack.us/a/img805/2223/661956126.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/661956126.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Stemp
09-25-2012, 12:33 PM
*cough* Bulls--- *cough*

Cerberus
09-25-2012, 12:35 PM
**** the NFL. That is an insult to the intelligence of every single football fan around the world. Absolutely ridiculous for them to stick up for this.

:toropalm:

Fans asked for this when they didn't cry "foul" after the Tuck game. The fact it was the Raiders that got screwed had many snickering with delight, but now the NFL is pulling out the same routine here because the fans let them do it before. Just remember, Walt Coleman said Brady's arm was going forward, but later it was shown that Brady had two hands on the ball, so the NFL pulled the Tuck Rule out and dusted it off to justify Coleman's throwing of the game. If fans would have stood up to the NFL then, who knows what they would have done now; but they didn't, so the NFL is using the same after-the-fact spin to say the play was called correctly. NFL fans have no one to blame but themselves.

ChrisG
09-25-2012, 12:35 PM
one hand touching the ball is now possession. He is just touching the ball by reaching around Jennings. LOL

gwallaia
09-25-2012, 12:36 PM
This jellyfish response from the NFL is disappointing but completely predictable.


We need an NFL face palm.

eriadoc
09-25-2012, 12:36 PM
The NFL knows that they can say or do whatever they want and there's not a damn thing anyone will do about it. No one will stop watching, no one will stop buying Bud Light, the stadiums will still sell out, the cities will still foot the bill for their palaces to play in, and people will actually pay more attention when these things happen. So of course they're going to be arrogant about it. We've trained them.

Cerberus
09-25-2012, 12:37 PM
A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:
(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).


http://allthingsd.com/files/2011/12/bob-esponja-ok.gif

Jennings secured control of the ball well before Tate did b/c he caught the ball with both hands from the jump.

& he also had control of the ball before Tate did so that effectively rules out simultaneous possession right there.........at least according to the letter of the rule.

So, good call bad rule?

Cerberus
09-25-2012, 12:39 PM
New strategy for last minute hail mary passes:

The offensive team should prevent the defender from touching the ground until they can get a hand on the ball. That way it is a "simultaneous" catch, because possession doesn't start until his touches the ground, while he is in the air apparently he is in the twilight zone where the ball is still fair game. Have everyone hold him up. LOL, this is a complete joke by the NFL

Jennings should have just swatted the ball down like defenders are taught to do, then you take the decision out of the refs' hands.

Bad call, but I've seen more than my fair share of those in my days.

Cerberus
09-25-2012, 12:41 PM
This makes it even worse. Seriously how is this Simultaneous!!

http://twitpic.com/ay40m6

http://imageshack.us/a/img805/2223/661956126.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/661956126.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

How is this an incomplete pass?

http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/tom-brady-tuck-play-anniversary-raiders.jpg

Dutchrudder
09-25-2012, 12:57 PM
By the way, the replay guy doesn't have to rule it an INT, because he can't, but he can rule it an incomplete pass because the WR never had control of the ball. That's what the replay guy should have ruled. The ball doesn't have to hit the ground either because the refs called the play dead after they hit the ground.

RazorOye
09-25-2012, 01:03 PM
The NFL knows that they can say or do whatever they want and there's not a damn thing anyone will do about it. No one will stop watching, no one will stop buying Bud Light, the stadiums will still sell out, the cities will still foot the bill for their palaces to play in, and people will actually pay more attention when these things happen. So of course they're going to be arrogant about it. We've trained them.

Absolutely.

This doesn't shock me at all. It's just the evolution of ego. Goodell has moved from players to teams to the entire league.

Everytime I see something new come out, I am reminded of Dave Chappelle's bit before his R. Kelly "I Wanna Pee on You" parody:

You know I gotta tell you. I just bought one of the hottest albums in a long time. That Chocolate Factory… that R. Kelly! I mean say what you wanna say about his scandal, but his music is scandal-proof. But if you’ve been a real fan and payin attention to what he's been saying, you might have seen it commin’ like I did!

ObsiWan
09-25-2012, 01:07 PM
Serious question: Do you think the normal refs would have gotten this one right. I mean, this is a once-in-a-blue-moon situation. I just wonder how many of the usual refs had seen this and would have made the correct call.

...please don't take this as me saying the scab refs should stay. Far from it. The owners should cough up the extra dough and bring back the usual refs - and the "game integrity" their experience represents - and end this farce. This mess should have never lasted past preseason.

gtexan02
09-25-2012, 01:11 PM
Serious question: Do you think the normal refs would have gotten this one right. I mean, this is a once-in-a-blue-moon situation. I just wonder how many of the usual refs had seen this and would have made the correct call.

...please don't take this as me saying the scab refs should stay. Far from it. The owners should cough up the extra dough and bring back the usual refs - and the "game integrity" their experience represents - and end this farce. This mess should have never lasted past preseason.

The real ref they had in the broadcast booth called it correctly.

I do agree though that the replacement have had to make 2 very difficult calls over the past weekend. The FG attempt in Baltimore and now this. No guarantees they would have gotten it right

eriadoc
09-25-2012, 01:14 PM
Serious question: Do you think the normal refs would have gotten this one right.

I don't. I have been saying repeatedly that the replacement refs are crappy because they don't know the basic rules and they do things like give coaches challenges when they have no timeouts, call illegal forward pass on run plays, end the half on defensive penalties, etc. This one though? The regular refs would have screwed it up. The NFL as an entity, refs included when they're on the field, is less interested in getting the correct outcome as much as confirming their own rule. If there's any subjectivity involved, they'll use that to justify the call on the field, no matter how completely wrong an outcome everyone knows it is.

HOU-TEX
09-25-2012, 01:14 PM
Serious question: Do you think the normal refs would have gotten this one right. I mean, this is a once-in-a-blue-moon situation. I just wonder how many of the usual refs had seen this and would have made the correct call.

...please don't take this as me saying the scab refs should stay. Far from it. The owners should cough up the extra dough and bring back the usual refs - and the "game integrity" their experience represents - and end this farce. This mess should have never lasted past preseason.

It wouldn't have been an issue. The offensive pass interference was so obvious, it would've been game, set, match at that point.

Heck, I even said interference and continued loading dish washer. Then I hear all heck break loose and go back to watching in disbelief

HoustonFrog
09-25-2012, 01:15 PM
The biggest issue I see are the the games officiated as a whole. I'm not a fan of refs in general but overall most games are well officiated and besides some of the big historical flubs you don't remember alot of what is going on. Right now I feel like it is chaos. Guys are bending the rules with more contact. There are a dozen calls a game that are bad. It is more than this call. This call wasn't hard though. There was nothing to show shared possession.

Playoffs
09-25-2012, 01:15 PM
This makes it even worse. Seriously how is this Simultaneous!!

http://twitpic.com/ay40m6
That's a 15 yard penalty for spooning!!!

HOU-TEX
09-25-2012, 01:19 PM
It's probably been metioned, but let's not forget the bogus roughing the passer crap when Russell was waaay out of the pocket (not that it should've been called even if he was in the pocket). Also, the ridiculous pass interference on Shields (think it was him). The game would probably not have evn gotten to the point of the hail mary if called correctly.

The NFL should be embarrassed for this **** they're feeding us. Or do they really think we're this friggin stupid?!

eriadoc
09-25-2012, 01:24 PM
Or do they really think we're this friggin stupid?!

I don't know if stupid is the right conclusion, but from their standpoint, we keep buying their product. As long as that's not affected, they probably conclude that they can feed us whatever they want and we'll keep watching, filling stadiums, buying beer, buying gear, and in all other ways consuming their product.

Are they wrong?

Thorn
09-25-2012, 01:26 PM
Complete utter bull**** from the NFL.

Señor Stan
09-25-2012, 01:29 PM
Complete utter bull**** from the NFL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAoVxOTw-ME&feature=plcp

ChrisG
09-25-2012, 02:00 PM
Jennings should have just swatted the ball down like defenders are taught to do, then you take the decision out of the refs' hands.

Bad call, but I've seen more than my fair share of those in my days.

Yea but then you gotta worry about a Detroit (last week) or Jacksonville (:cutthroat: ) situation happening.

CretorFrigg
09-25-2012, 02:07 PM
Go Seattle!

TimeKiller
09-25-2012, 03:27 PM
lol....

What exactly is the NFL supposed to do?

A Statement From the NFL

You guys are totally right. Let's throw our refs under the bus, reverse the call, award the win to Green Bay and all because a bunch of fans are upset at a rule that's been in place for oh, let's say many years.

Signed,
Roger Goodell Himself



.......riiiiiight.......

eriadoc
09-25-2012, 03:30 PM
lol....

What exactly is the NFL supposed to do?

A Statement From the NFL

You guys are totally right. Let's throw our refs under the bus, reverse the call, award the win to Green Bay and all because a bunch of fans are upset at a rule that's been in place for oh, let's say many years.

Signed,
Roger Goodell Himself



.......riiiiiight.......

The NFL has admitted officiating mistakes before. Hell, the Hochuli debacle a few years ago was admitted to and apologized for. Wins and losses have not been reversed, but at least the mistake was owned.

IlliniJen
09-25-2012, 04:03 PM
http://i.imgur.com/PnDzW.jpg

SheTexan
09-25-2012, 04:05 PM
Did anyone really think the NFL would reverse that call?? They are the one's keeping the replacement refs in place, so they will back them up, right or wrong!! Screw the teams, fans, and anyone else who challenges them.

I've kinda been a supporter of the replacement refs up until now, simply because I DO NOT agree with what the reg refs are asking, and think they should lighten up some and not be so greedy. The owners have the POWER and they will use it to keep control of the money train. They don't really care about the integrity of the game! WHY? Because it's been going downhill for years and fans don't care! We just keep on supporting what they do.

I heard today on some sports show, don't remember which, that the NFL saved the "cream of the crop" replacement refs for high profile games, like MNF. Well, if the best they can do is a line judge who refs high school and Jr college, then the cream of the crop is pretty pathetic. What the hell are we getting for reg sch games? Previously, I made the comment that it's not the replacement refs fault, well, I take that back. It is their fault as much as the NFLs. They accepted a job they are not qualified for, and that's on them. I think the reg refs are just sitting back, getting a good laugh out of all this drama, and waiting it out. They will eventually get what they want. They have jobs outside the NFL, so they won't go broke while they wait it out. Football AIN'T going anywhere! You and I, and all the millions of fans of the NFL, will see to it that the games go on. JMO!

steelbtexan
09-25-2012, 04:46 PM
I don't. I have been saying repeatedly that the replacement refs are crappy because they don't know the basic rules and they do things like give coaches challenges when they have no timeouts, call illegal forward pass on run plays, end the half on defensive penalties, etc. This one though? The regular refs would have screwed it up. The NFL as an entity, refs included when they're on the field, is less interested in getting the correct outcome as much as confirming their own rule. If there's any subjectivity involved, they'll use that to justify the call on the field, no matter how completely wrong an outcome everyone knows it is.

^^^^
This

Anybody that doesn't think the NFL regular officials aren't crooked at worst and incompetent atleast need to refer to the Steelers vs Seahawks SB. Or any game Triplete or McElwee are reffing.

Triplete hit Orlando Brown (RIP) in the eye requiring surgery for godsake, with his beanbag. Effectively ruining Browns career as a quality LT. RIP pushes Triplete and Brown gets suspended. (Nothing happens to Triplete) That's the quality of the regular NLF officials.

While the replacement refs are bad atleast they're honest. Here's to good old fashion hard hitting football being back. Instead of the pantywaist God'ell style of football.

Doppelganger
09-25-2012, 04:52 PM
This makes it even worse. Seriously how is this Simultaneous!!

http://twitpic.com/ay40m6

http://imageshack.us/a/img805/2223/661956126.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/661956126.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

One guy has his arms on the ball, the other guy is hugging the guy with the ball. In NFL land, that means its simultaneous possession. So, can I apply this rule in real life? Can I go up to someone who has a really nice car, give them a hug and claim "simultaneous possession."

Sound stupid? Yeah, but so is the NFL explanation.

Wolf6151
09-25-2012, 05:12 PM
This is the dumbest ruling in the history of dumb NFL rulings. I'm convinced the filthy rich owners could care less about the integrity of the game as long as the money keeps flowing, they could care less about the refs. and proper officiating.

Cerberus
09-25-2012, 05:14 PM
It's probably been metioned, but let's not forget the bogus roughing the passer crap when Russell was waaay out of the pocket (not that it should've been called even if he was in the pocket). Also, the ridiculous pass interference on Shields (think it was him). The game would probably not have evn gotten to the point of the hail mary if called correctly.

The NFL should be embarrassed for this **** they're feeding us. Or do they really think we're this friggin stupid?!

That works two ways. Without the bogus PI call against Kam Chancellor, the Pack would not have scored their last TD (I think it was the same drive).

Texecutioner
09-25-2012, 05:54 PM
Fans asked for this when they didn't cry "foul" after the Tuck game. The fact it was the Raiders that got screwed had many snickering with delight, but now the NFL is pulling out the same routine here because the fans let them do it before. Just remember, Walt Coleman said Brady's arm was going forward, but later it was shown that Brady had two hands on the ball, so the NFL pulled the Tuck Rule out and dusted it off to justify Coleman's throwing of the game. If fans would have stood up to the NFL then, who knows what they would have done now; but they didn't, so the NFL is using the same after-the-fact spin to say the play was called correctly. NFL fans have no one to blame but themselves.

You sound completely ridicuous. To blame the fans for the officials corruption and cheating because they're obviously gambling is just stupid.

The tuck rule has absolutely nothing to do with this and is a horrible comparison.

There isn't one NFL fan that wants teams losing over officials who are obviously gambling, because there is no way even the worst official was fooled by that play.

The fact that the NFL won't change the outcome of this game is robbery of the fans that paid for that game. They should be able to sue and I hope that they are for plane tickets, tickets to the game, and everything else. And the arrogance of Goodell and the NFL office to publicly suggest that the right call was made is the worst part of all of this. They won't even admit to a mistake.

**** the NFL, and **** Roger Goodell. He just wrote his resignation.


But blaming the fans is pathetic.

GP
09-25-2012, 07:27 PM
Hey it's no big deal.

We've had a government for the past several decades telling us that what we have is exactly what we should have.

Apparently, Roger has taken notes. Nobody can do anything about it. We're too far down the rabbit hole.

infantrycak
09-25-2012, 07:37 PM
The NFL has admitted officiating mistakes before. Hell, the Hochuli debacle a few years ago was admitted to and apologized for. Wins and losses have not been reversed, but at least the mistake was owned.

They admitted an error which changed the outcome of the game, it is just that everyone wants to worry about the TD. The NFL admitted Tate should have been flagged for offensive PI. Regardless of whether he made the reception totally cleanly the game should have been over at that point with no TD.

toronto
09-25-2012, 10:42 PM
They admitted an error which changed the outcome of the game, it is just that everyone wants to worry about the TD. The NFL admitted Tate should have been flagged for offensive PI. Regardless of whether he made the reception totally cleanly the game should have been over at that point with no TD.

It was a useless gesture by the NFL. They say "Tate should have been flagged and the TD shouldn't have happened" while in the meantime say the mistake is final and binding.

Its like me punching a man in the face, apologizing saying it was a mistake, and somehow that apology gets me off the hook with the law. There is no further recourse for the victim. I realize this isn't the best comparison but its all I could think up of on the fly.

The NFL embarrassed itself this week, and every week they allow this course to continue they risk longterm harm to the one 'shield' that has maintained a steady ship while the other 'shields' have had their ups and downs. The thing that kills me is how unnecessary and solvable this is.

Rey
09-25-2012, 10:58 PM
It was a useless gesture by the NFL. They say "Tate should have been flagged and the TD shouldn't have happened" while in the meantime say the mistake is final and binding.

I understand that play came in the closing seconds, but from what I've been hearing (I didn't watch the game) green bay benefitted from a questionable call on the drive that gave them the lead.

I heard that if that call hadn't been made greenbay is likely not leading going into the final seconds.

Regardless if that's exactly true or not, there are calls/non calls made throughout the game. It sucks that call was missed in the last play but if you're going to reverse one bad call, then don't you have to reverse them all?

Rey
09-25-2012, 11:10 PM
The NFL embarrassed itself this week, and every week they allow this course to continue they risk longterm harm to the one 'shield' that has maintained a steady ship while the other 'shields' have had their ups and downs. The thing that kills me is how unnecessary and solvable this is.

Honestly, I think people should either get over it or just stop watching. The NFL is a product. No one forces you or anyone else to watch. If I don't like how my burger is cooked, I dont eat at that burger joint.

If you're going continue to watch then understand the NFL doesn't care. No offense to you or anyone else, but the NFL is not any more embarrassed over this than they are with any other bad call.

It'll come back up this weekend and maybe whenever greenbay or the Seahawks play, but a majority if NFL fans will simply forget about this particular incident.

Maybe the is another issue compounding on top if other issues, but I think acting like this is the straw that broke the camels back is just a little bit dramatic.

My plans for this coming Sunday haven't changed. Have yours?

HJam72
09-25-2012, 11:30 PM
I don't really care about GB getting screwed, but my honest opinion about it is that, if they admit it should have been a foul, they should call it a foul and give GB the win. This business of, well, this should have been called but we can't do that on reversal, is bullcrap. Review it and make the RIGHT call or don't bother reveiwing it at all. That goes for replays during games to. Don't tell me this or that should've been called this way or that and then not do it. Fix it right or don't mess with it.

Cerberus
09-26-2012, 12:20 AM
You sound completely ridicuous. To blame the fans for the officials corruption and cheating because they're obviously gambling is just stupid.

The tuck rule has absolutely nothing to do with this and is a horrible comparison.

There isn't one NFL fan that wants teams losing over officials who are obviously gambling, because there is no way even the worst official was fooled by that play.

The fact that the NFL won't change the outcome of this game is robbery of the fans that paid for that game. They should be able to sue and I hope that they are for plane tickets, tickets to the game, and everything else. And the arrogance of Goodell and the NFL office to publicly suggest that the right call was made is the worst part of all of this. They won't even admit to a mistake.

**** the NFL, and **** Roger Goodell. He just wrote his resignation.


But blaming the fans is pathetic.

The Tuck Rule game is a perfect example, since Walt Coleman (a Chief fan) threw the game. But see, you're okay with that.

Do you think the NFL should change the outcome of the Tuck Game, the Immaculate Reception game and the Rob Lytle fumble game, and etch the Raiders name on the Lombardi as winners/co-winners of the SB that year?

Like when Pereira came out and did his spin-doctoring after the Pats/Raiders game. You probably don't remember, but Coleman said Brady's arm was moving forward. It wasn't until the next day the NFL pulled out the Tuck Rule to cover Coleman's ass. Even then, Brady technically "tucked" the ball when he put both hands on the ball and tucked it to his chest before fumbling. The NFL, like this game, just used spin to justify the bad call, and people like you gobbled it up.

I blame the fans for allowing the NFL to get away with this crap in the past. Where was the outrage in the past?

Tex: Obviously, I'm either not making my point clearly enough, you just don't "get it", or you are bringing our political differences to the sports table.

infantrycak
09-26-2012, 12:33 AM
It was a useless gesture by the NFL. They say "Tate should have been flagged and the TD shouldn't have happened" while in the meantime say the mistake is final and binding.

Well I was responding to someone who did not realize the NFL had admitted a mistake. There are limits on the commissioner's power to overturn games.

The NFL embarrassed itself this week, and every week they allow this course to continue they risk longterm harm to the one 'shield' that has maintained a steady ship while the other 'shields' have had their ups and downs. The thing that kills me is how unnecessary and solvable this is.

How, by following the rules the teams and players agreed to follow? You seem to be laying this all at the feet of having replacement refs. Before the hail mary was attempted Jon Gruden said the refs never call PI's on hail mary's. He obviously wasn't talking about the replacements.

I don't really care about GB getting screwed, but my honest opinion about it is that, if they admit it should have been a foul, they should call it a foul and give GB the win. This business of, well, this should have been called but we can't do that on reversal, is bullcrap.

Maybe so but they followed the rules everyone agreed to. PI calls are not going to get a game result overturned. Overturning game results has to be an extraordinary event. I mean how far is this going to extend? Does it have to be last play of the game? What if an incorrect penalty is called putting a team on the one to win the game so next to last play? What if the other team still has time to run 6-7 plays and doesn't score?

TimeKiller
09-26-2012, 07:29 AM
The NFL has admitted officiating mistakes before. Hell, the Hochuli debacle a few years ago was admitted to and apologized for. Wins and losses have not been reversed, but at least the mistake was owned.

A catch is 2 hands and 2 feet or maintaining possession all the way through the catch i.e. all the way to the ground. Yes, Jennings had his hands on the ball first but in mid-air this is not a catch or possession. When they both go to the ground, they both have 2 hands on the ball. Simultaneous possession goes to the offense. Thems the rules. Furthermore, they fully admitted the mistake...not calling offensive PI. What do you want from them?

CloakNNNdagger
09-26-2012, 08:25 AM
When you thought things couldn't get anymore pathetic.

Mashup: Replacement ref parties after mistake
(http://outofbounds.weei.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/lance-easley-530x486.jpg)
09.26.12 at 7:58 am ET by Ryan Hadfield


This replacement official fall out isn’t going to end anytime soon.
What the Internet is saying

This could get ugly.

If this is true, we got problems. Larry Brown Sports — for my money, one of the more reliable blogs out there — is reporting Lance Easley, the referee who blew the Hail Mary call in the Seahawks-Packers game, was at a club immediately following the contest. Below is the alleged photo of Easley getting weird with a girl.

http://outofbounds.weei.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/lance-easley-530x486.jpg
Lance Easley allegedly at the bar after the Seahawks-Packers game. (LBS)

Via Larry Brown Sports:

George Takata, the sports director at KPGE CBS 47 in Fresno, reported on Twitter early Wednesday morning that Easley was out at Club Habanos — a bar/club in Fresno, Calif., on Tuesday night. Takata even tweeted the tri-pane photo you see above. He says the middle photo was sent to him by one of his friends, and it is of Easley at the club Tuesday night.

In an incredible irony, Takata’s friend, whose face we blurred out, happened to be wearing a Green Bay Packers shirt — the very team Easley’s awful call victimized.

Here is the tweet mentioned in the story.

George Takata @georgetakata

Lance Easley, the ref who signaled "touchdown" in the Packers-Seahawks game, just left Club Habanos in FRESNO. You've gotta be kidding me.
26 Sep 12

CloakNNNdagger
09-26-2012, 08:34 AM
Tutor says replacement ref who called TD not ready for Division I (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/story/2012/09/25/tutor-replacement-ref-who-called-td-not-ready-for-div-i/57842200/1)
by Jim Corbett, USA TODAY Sports

Small wonder why NFL replacement official Lance Easley is considered public enemy No. 1 this week -- and maybe for the entire season in Green Bay, Wis.

Working as the side judge Monday night, the longtime Southern California high school and junior college official signaled the winning catch by receiver Golden Tate in the Seattle Seahawks' last-play, 14-12 win against the Green Bay Packers -- a call the world believes he blew by turning an obvious interception into a touchdown.

But why was he in the NFL?

He wasn't deemed good enough to become a Division I college official this summer, according to Karl Richins and his staff of Division I college officials at Stars and Stripes Academy for Football Officials in Salt Lake City.

"I got to know Lance at a June academy I worked at in Reno and when he came to my academy in July," Richins said. "He's a very polite, good Christian gentleman, a good father to his son, Daniel, who was at my academy as well.

"But was Lance ready to work at the NFL level? Absolutely not."

Richins' staff determined that Easley, vice president of small business banking at Bank of America in Santa Maria, Calif., wasn't ready for Division I, the highest level of college officiating, never mind the much faster NFL game.

Richins said the biggest mistake Easley made was agreeing to become a replacement official in the first place. He said Easley had never officiated at a level higher than Division III and never voiced a desire to reach the NFL.

THERE'S MORE IF YOU CLICK ON THE LINK ABOVE.......

HJam72
09-26-2012, 08:48 AM
A catch is 2 hands and 2 feet or maintaining possession all the way through the catch i.e. all the way to the ground. Yes, Jennings had his hands on the ball first but in mid-air this is not a catch or possession. When they both go to the ground, they both have 2 hands on the ball. Simultaneous possession goes to the offense. Thems the rules. Furthermore, they fully admitted the mistake...not calling offensive PI. What do you want from them?

Help for the Texans, of course. :fans:

gwallaia
09-26-2012, 09:21 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8426996/owners-budge-latest-talks-fail-produce-deal-source-says

Still no deal between NFL and refs.

disaacks3
09-26-2012, 09:46 AM
When you thought things couldn't get anymore pathetic.

All I can say after seeing that is did he "Screw Green Bay fans" twice that night? :kitten:

TexanSam
09-26-2012, 09:50 AM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8426996/owners-budge-latest-talks-fail-produce-deal-source-says

Still no deal between NFL and refs.

:facepalm:

$100,000 when each team is making millions upon millions every year. Screw the owners.

HOU-TEX
09-26-2012, 10:10 AM
:facepalm:

$100,000 when each team is making millions upon millions every year. Screw the owners.

My understanding, and I might be wrong, but the refs are asking for a plan that full time NFL employees don't even get. I'm not sure it'd be fair giving an employee that works maybe 30-40 hours a week a better plan than one that might work 40-60 hours a week.

Who knows? At least it appears they're making progress, albeit a tad late

Cerberus
09-26-2012, 10:34 AM
I don't really care about GB getting screwed, but my honest opinion about it is that, if they admit it should have been a foul, they should call it a foul and give GB the win. This business of, well, this should have been called but we can't do that on reversal, is bullcrap. Review it and make the RIGHT call or don't bother reveiwing it at all. That goes for replays during games to. Don't tell me this or that should've been called this way or that and then not do it. Fix it right or don't mess with it.

That is exactly that point I've been addressing. The NFL can't fix it, because they haven't done so in the past. If they "fix" this game, then they should go back and "fix" other games in the past like the Tuck Game or the Immaculate Deception. How can they do that???? They can't. The time to have fixed those games was back when they mistakes happened, but there was no outcry back then except from Raider fans. Now people suddenly want to selectively "fix" this game? It is too late, the NFL can't come off as being capricious based on who their darlings are. So, they either need to move on (which they are doing) or they need to fix all of their past mistakes not just the one that's the flavor of the week.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8426996/owners-budge-latest-talks-fail-produce-deal-source-says

Still no deal between NFL and refs.

:facepalm:

$100,000 when each team is making millions upon millions every year. Screw the owners.

If goes much further than that. There is a grading scale involved that the NFL wants to implement, and they want to have underlings in waiting to replace current officials as they age. These are things the regular officials want no part of.

On a personal note, I'd like to see the officials be held accountable by having the media gain access to them.

My understanding, and I might be wrong, but the refs are asking for a plan that full time NFL employees don't even get. I'm not sure it'd be fair giving an employee that works maybe 30-40 hours a week a better plan than one that might work 40-60 hours a week.

Who knows? At least it appears they're making progress, albeit a tad late

And they want a lot more than that. Both sides are playing the greed game, so I don't see one side as being worse than the other.

GlassHalfFull
09-26-2012, 10:43 AM
Random thought.

Does Green Bay have a "loud" (for lack of a better term coming to mind) voice at the owner's meetings? Since they are publicly owned, I am not sure who represents them.

This may have been the worst team for this to happen to. Think of the noise Jerry Jones would make if this had happened to his 'girls.

gwallaia
09-26-2012, 10:46 AM
Think of the noise Jerry Jones would make if this had happened to his 'girls.

There would not be enough Jerry Wipes in the world to ease his pain.:zipit:

toronto
09-26-2012, 11:24 AM
Seeing as how there appears to suddenly be an agreement between the nfl and nflra, I guess the nfl felt it was indeed urgent enough and that they did see their brand being tarnished. How else do you explain this suddenly getting resolved in 72 hrs!

toronto
09-26-2012, 12:28 PM
Honestly, I think people should either get over it or just stop watching. The NFL is a product. No one forces you or anyone else to watch. If I don't like how my burger is cooked, I dont eat at that burger joint.

If you're going continue to watch then understand the NFL doesn't care. No offense to you or anyone else, but the NFL is not any more embarrassed over this than they are with any other bad call.

It'll come back up this weekend and maybe whenever greenbay or the Seahawks play, but a majority if NFL fans will simply forget about this particular incident.

Maybe the is another issue compounding on top if other issues, but I think acting like this is the straw that broke the camels back is just a little bit dramatic.

My plans for this coming Sunday haven't changed. Have yours?

I hold the NFL to a higher standard than every other league. Mostly its because they have delivered by far the best product at every level, or the fact that there has been no games missed to lockout/strike since 1987 (?) or the fact that they moved first on revenue sharing, salary caps etc. that brought in an era where any team properly managed could win.

That's why the last few weeks have been tough for NFL diehards, because they aren't used to being disappointed by the shield. And again, I re-iterate, the NFL must have felt embarrassed, based on their move to suddenly sit down with the NFLRA and try and hammer out a deal.

toronto
09-26-2012, 12:31 PM
How, by following the rules the teams and players agreed to follow? You seem to be laying this all at the feet of having replacement refs. Before the hail mary was attempted Jon Gruden said the refs never call PI's on hail mary's. He obviously wasn't talking about the replacements.



Maybe so but they followed the rules everyone agreed to. PI calls are not going to get a game result overturned. Overturning game results has to be an extraordinary event. I mean how far is this going to extend? Does it have to be last play of the game? What if an incorrect penalty is called putting a team on the one to win the game so next to last play? What if the other team still has time to run 6-7 plays and doesn't score?

My issue(s) with the NFL really had little to do with just this one play. I don't want the league facing integrity issues - which were legitimately coming into question. Not the one league I truly love and am passionate about. They get so much more right than every other sport that it sucked seeing them dragged through the mud, especially when the matter was so correctable, at least from an integrity-standpoint. The real refs won't get everything right, but it eliminates a major talking point and pushes the onus back where it belongs, on players, coaches and GMs. The excuses disappear real quick.

CloakNNNdagger
09-26-2012, 01:26 PM
The New York Post of all sources just published this damning photo:

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/USATODAY/gameon/2012/09/26/nypost-x-wide-community.jpg

Rey
09-26-2012, 01:42 PM
Delete

drunkcookie
09-26-2012, 07:32 PM
Blogged about this a bit... http://www.thezimmway.blogspot.com/2012/09/green-bay-won-damn-game.html?m=1

Playoffs
09-27-2012, 07:04 AM
NFL’s rulebook, casebook confirm call was incorrect
...The relevant portion of the official 2012 rules comes from Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5: “It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control.” (Emphasis added.) Thus, it doesn’t matter whether the officials determined that Tate and Jennings jointly had “possession” when they landed; the question is whether Jennings “gained control” first.

The NFL’s statement likely omitted that fact because the video shows Jennings “gained control” first. This video (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=HtYeeFpPPz0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=HtYeeFpPPz0) shows the best angle; Jennings caught the ball with both hands while Tate had only one hand (his left) on the ball. Tate eventually got his right hand on the ball, but after Jennings “gained control” of it.

The league’s most recent casebook, which is posted at NFL.com, specifically addresses this situation at A.R. 8.29, under the all-caps title NOT A SIMULTANEOUS CATCH: “First-and-10 on A20. B3 controls a pass in the air at the A40 before A2, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, A2 and B3 fall down to the ground. Ruling: B’s ball, first-and-10 on A40. Not a simultaneous catch as B3 gains control first and retains control.”
......
This isn’t about maintaining control through the act of going to the ground; it’s about who first secured control, whether the players were in the air or on the ground. Jennings first secured control, while he and Tate were in the air.

Here’s A.R. 8.29, with the names of the player’s included: “Jennings controls a pass in the air before Tate, who then also controls the ball before they land. As they land, Tate and Jennings fall down to the ground. Ruling: Green Bay’s ball. Not a simultaneous catch as Jennings gains control first and retains control.”...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/26/nfls-rulebook-casebook-confirms-call-was-incorrect/

Texecutioner
09-29-2012, 02:23 PM
Honestly, I think people should either get over it or just stop watching. The NFL is a product. No one forces you or anyone else to watch. If I don't like how my burger is cooked, I dont eat at that burger joint.

If you're going continue to watch then understand the NFL doesn't care. No offense to you or anyone else, but the NFL is not any more embarrassed over this than they are with any other bad call.

It'll come back up this weekend and maybe whenever greenbay or the Seahawks play, but a majority if NFL fans will simply forget about this particular incident.

Maybe the is another issue compounding on top if other issues, but I think acting like this is the straw that broke the camels back is just a little bit dramatic.

My plans for this coming Sunday haven't changed. Have yours?

Your entire premise here is very flawed. To suggest that fans and media shouldn't complain over a false product where money is being lost for a lot of people and jobs are on the line every season for coaches, players, and other personal is pretty messed up. Oh yeah, it's a horrible group of refs that are deciding games by wrong calls, but we should all keep watching or just not watch because it is just that simple. Fans can't just decide to not watch and expect a huge change without knowing if the rest of the Billion football fans are going to be on board with it. It's to many fans out there to organize a stance like that. That whole idea is about as unlikely as expecting an entire nation to just "not vote" in the election because they think that the government is corrupt and I don't know anyone that would argue that the government isn't corrupt.

The NFL finally caved in and negotiated a deal though. But to sit here and excuse horrible officiating from a league like the NFL and act like fans can just abandon the game that easily is not realistic at all. If there are problems with a league, a company, an organization, or anything of that matter you do what is necessary to fix it. You don't just excuse poor errors and poor judgement. Hell, if we all did that in society we'd all be living in the stone age still.