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stingray
09-23-2012, 11:58 PM
This guy is the definition of no class. Putting his hands on the ref after the game. I can't stand him.

Fili
09-24-2012, 12:01 AM
This guy is the definition of no class. Putting his hands on the ref after the game. I can't stand him.

What exactly did he do? Couldn't watch the game had homework...

silvrhand
09-24-2012, 12:01 AM
This guy is the definition of no class. Putting his hands on the ref after the game. I can't stand him.

To be honest he only tried to stop him, not like he shoved him down on the ground, the officials are HORRIBLE.

stingray
09-24-2012, 12:03 AM
To be honest he only tried to stop him, not like he shoved him down on the ground, the officials are HORRIBLE.

It doesn't matter. You don't do that. Kubiak would never do that. And they got the call right anyways.

stingray
09-24-2012, 12:04 AM
What exactly did he do? Couldn't watch the game had homework...

He tried to stop the ref by grabbing on to his arm.

NitroGSXR
09-24-2012, 12:07 AM
Putting his hands on the ref after the game.

Yeah... he should have kicked him to the moon instead! I saw it as the ref being classless here as opposed to Belichick. I guess your mileage may vary.

stingray
09-24-2012, 12:16 AM
I don't know. Maybe it's no big deal. But I was always taught to respect the officials when I played any kind of sport. You can voice your displeasure but putting your hands on them is crossing the line in my book. Different strokes for different folks.

toronto
09-24-2012, 12:28 AM
To be honest he only tried to stop him, not like he shoved him down on the ground, the officials are HORRIBLE.

We decided in the control room to keep a tally on how many calls we felt were made that better refs wouldn't have screwed up on.

We counted 17. 17 plays where it was clear the inferior refs either blew a call or missed a call. The integrity of the game is being messed with now and for people like Belichick that spend 100 hrs in the film room and dedicate their lives to this, I'd be just as pissed too.

The NFL and refs need to sit down, get this down and do it NOW. Someone is either going to get paralyzed or killed.

Forget the fact that some team is facing a real possibility of getting screwed out of a legit win that ends up costing them their season, and it will all have hinged on the refs, and this time it won't be a bull**** excuse.

TexanSam
09-24-2012, 12:36 AM
We decided in the control room to keep a tally on how many calls we felt were made that better refs wouldn't have screwed up on.

We counted 17. 17 plays where it was clear the inferior refs either blew a call or missed a call. The integrity of the game is being messed with now and for people like Belichick that spend 100 hrs in the film room and dedicate their lives to this, I'd be just as pissed too.

The NFL and refs need to sit down, get this down and do it NOW. Someone is either going to get paralyzed or killed.

Forget the fact that some team is facing a real possibility of getting screwed out of a legit win that ends up costing them their season, and it will all have hinged on the refs, and this time it won't be a bull**** excuse.

Did you catch Steve Young's take on the ref's last week? He sums it up perfectly. The best quote is people in the league "don't feel that the officials are on field personnel, they feel like it's a commodity". The NFL replacement refs can continue to blow calls but the NFL knows that people will continue to go to watch the games regardless of the officials. They're basically trying to break the referee union, to show them up because Goodell and Co. are the big, bad NFL while the ref's are just an insignificant part of the entire process. I would not be surprised if the lockout lasts throughout the entire season and playoffs no matter how much people complain.

Here's the link to Steve Young talking about it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdW36gWDFu0

mattieuk
09-24-2012, 01:21 AM
We counted 17. 17 plays where it was clear the inferior refs either blew a call or missed a call. The integrity of the game is being messed with now and for people like Belichick that spend 100 hrs in the film room and dedicate their lives to this, I'd be just as pissed too.

I'm not sure here. I think the integrity of the game has been damaged more by the reaction of the players and coaches towards the 'replacements' opposed to the 'replacements' being in the league.

Belichick was out of order - you never put your hands on an official - regardless of who it is.

The refs are who the refs are. Screaming and intimidating isn't going to make a non-professional NFL official, an NFL official.

MightyTExan
09-24-2012, 07:09 AM
http://p.twimg.com/A3SJgJZCUAAvA_k.jpg

AndreJohnson's
09-24-2012, 08:13 AM
He won't be around in Boston much longer if NE keeps losing games.

RazorOye
09-24-2012, 08:27 AM
http://i.qkme.me/3r1e2g.jpg

TexanSam
09-24-2012, 08:59 AM
He won't be around in Boston much longer if NE keeps losing games.

What? New England made the Super Bowl last year. He hasn't had a losing season since 2000. I think Belichick's job is safe.

GlassHalfFull
09-24-2012, 09:01 AM
1. The reffing is horrible. No debate about it.

2. Steve Young's rant was spot on.


The Goodell run NFL is going to come down hard of Bellichick, I wouldn't be surprised to see a suspension, at the very least a stiff fine. Goodell doesn't like to let anyone show him up, and that is how he will view it after sending around the "play nice with others" memo last week.

Luv_ya_blue
09-24-2012, 09:09 AM
I would encourage all of you guys to sign up for TASO (Texas Association of Sports Officials) this season. It's late and the season's already started, but I can assure you that they're short-handed and would be more than willing to have you.

Find out what it's like for yourselves. And once you're trying to play catch-up in a 7th grade B-game...let me know how easy and obvious the plays are that you missed.

Btw...
These refs didn't ask for this. They're doing the very best job that they can, to have been dropped in the mix. I can't imagine the pace of an NFL game. College and High School can't hold a candle to it. Not to mention the difference in rule enforcement in the pros as opposed to college.

HJam72
09-24-2012, 09:15 AM
I would encourage all of you guys to sign up for TASO (Texas Association of Sports Officials) this season. It's late and the season's already started, but I can assure you that they're short-handed and would be more than willing to have you.

Find out what it's like for yourselves. And once you're trying to play catch-up in a 7th grade B-game...let me know how easy and obvious the plays are that you missed.

Btw...
These refs didn't ask for this. They're doing the very best job that they can, to have been dropped in the mix. I can't imagine the pace of an NFL game. College and High School can't hold a candle to it. Not to mention the difference in rule enforcement in the pros as opposed to college.

Ya know it's very irritating when you always speak the truth. :foottap:

NitroGSXR
09-24-2012, 09:18 AM
Btw...
These refs didn't ask for this. They're doing the very best job that they can, to have been dropped in the mix. I can't imagine the pace of an NFL game. College and High School can't hold a candle to it. Not to mention the difference in rule enforcement in the pros as opposed to college.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxK5SbTS8U_UCui7t5DgMFJwmx1h9cP cGYFT0W4RJ90Q7v_POh

RazorOye
09-24-2012, 09:25 AM
Btw...
These refs didn't ask for this.

Can they turn the NFL down?

They're doing the very best job that they can, to have been dropped in the mix.

Nobody's denying that. But that's separate from saying they are doing a terrible job.

My 3-year-old tries her best to draw Mickey Mouse.

But it looks like crap.

disaacks3
09-24-2012, 09:45 AM
Yeah... he should have kicked him to the moon instead! I saw it as the ref being classless here as opposed to Belichick. I guess your mileage may vary. Touch a ref and prepare to be fined and /or suspended. The ref's job isn't to discuss the call with a coach after the game is over.

He won't be around in Boston much longer if NE keeps losing games. He'll coach the Pats as long as he wants to, he's pretty well earned that.

Nobody's denying that. But that's separate from saying they are doing a terrible job.

My 3-year-old tries her best to draw Mickey Mouse.

But it looks like crap. Same for my three yr-old. Of course Daddy's doesn't look much better. :)

People expect folks to be as good or better at their job as you are at yours. The NFL took shortcuts with these refs and it shows...glaringly.

Cerberus
09-24-2012, 09:45 AM
I don't know. Maybe it's no big deal. But I was always taught to respect the officials when I played any kind of sport. You can voice your displeasure but putting your hands on them is crossing the line in my book. Different strokes for different folks.

I think the League is going to agree with you.

We decided in the control room to keep a tally on how many calls we felt were made that better refs wouldn't have screwed up on.

We counted 17. 17 plays where it was clear the inferior refs either blew a call or missed a call. The integrity of the game is being messed with now and for people like Belichick that spend 100 hrs in the film room and dedicate their lives to this, I'd be just as pissed too.

The NFL and refs need to sit down, get this down and do it NOW. Someone is either going to get paralyzed or killed.

Forget the fact that some team is facing a real possibility of getting screwed out of a legit win that ends up costing them their season, and it will all have hinged on the refs, and this time it won't be a bull**** excuse.

Now you know how Raider fans feel, they can't tell any difference between the replacement refs and the regular refs. People used to blast Raider fans for bitching about the refs, now that the shoe is on the other foot, everyone else is bitching! Talk about funny.

rmartin65
09-24-2012, 09:47 AM
I would encourage all of you guys to sign up for TASO (Texas Association of Sports Officials) this season. It's late and the season's already started, but I can assure you that they're short-handed and would be more than willing to have you.

Find out what it's like for yourselves. And once you're trying to play catch-up in a 7th grade B-game...let me know how easy and obvious the plays are that you missed.

Btw...
These refs didn't ask for this. They're doing the very best job that they can, to have been dropped in the mix. I can't imagine the pace of an NFL game. College and High School can't hold a candle to it. Not to mention the difference in rule enforcement in the pros as opposed to college.

BS. These guys did sign up for this. The NFL did not just grab people of the street, put them in uniforms and say "Go!".

But yeah, I dont think they are doing a bad job on purpose. They just suck.

steelbtexan
09-24-2012, 09:59 AM
We decided in the control room to keep a tally on how many calls we felt were made that better refs wouldn't have screwed up on.

We counted 17. 17 plays where it was clear the inferior refs either blew a call or missed a call. The integrity of the game is being messed with now and for people like Belichick that spend 100 hrs in the film room and dedicate their lives to this, I'd be just as pissed too.

The NFL and refs need to sit down, get this down and do it NOW. Someone is either going to get paralyzed or killed.

Forget the fact that some team is facing a real possibility of getting screwed out of a legit win that ends up costing them their season, and it will all have hinged on the refs, and this time it won't be a bull**** excuse.

How many calls would the regular refs missed?

Remember the Steelers/Seahawks SB? I would rather have bad refs than crooked refs. I'm kinda enjoying this brand of football. Where WR's have to go across the middle with the fear of getting laid out like Heyward-Bey did yesterday. Or Vick getting pounded instead of being protected by the refs.

Old School football is back. They may miss a few calls, but replay corrects most of them. Considering how bad the regular refs are, the only difference is the amount of time that the replacement refs take to get the calls correct. As a fan I can live with this.

Luv_ya_blue
09-24-2012, 10:33 AM
Ya know it's very irritating when you always speak the truth. :foottap:
:spin:
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxK5SbTS8U_UCui7t5DgMFJwmx1h9cP cGYFT0W4RJ90Q7v_POh
One example in how many years? Do you think that these guys aren't partial to one team or another? This guy was clearly biased in his fandom. I officiated my HS alma mater for about a dozen games last year. I was secretly hoping my old HS team would do well, but that doesn't IN ANYWAY mean that I'd "miss" even one call for them. A garbage example imo.

Can they turn the NFL down?

Nobody's denying that. But that's separate from saying they are doing a terrible job.

My 3-year-old tries her best to draw Mickey Mouse.

But it looks like crap.
Sure they can...but would YOU? Every HS & college ref dreams of a shot to officiate in the pros. Would you turn down an opportunity handed to you to do something that you've always dreamed of? I don't think so.

BS. These guys did sign up for this. The NFL did not just grab people of the street, put them in uniforms and say "Go!".

But yeah, I dont think they are doing a bad job on purpose. They just suck.
Poor choice of words on my part. You're right, they DID sign up for this. What I meant was, they didn't ask to have the pro officials strike and they didn't ask to be thrown into the fray at a moments notice. Yes, as I mentioned above--it's probably always been a dream of theirs to officiate in the pros. I know that if someone called me and said, "Hey 'Blue' can you come ref the Texans v Titans game this week, we're a little short handed. YOU BETTER FLIPPIN' BELIEVE THAT I WOULD!!!!" There's NOTHING that would hold me back from that. I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. I've been an official at just about all levels since `04 and it's always been a dream of mine to move up the ladder. But it's incredibly political to move up and I'm not interested in putting in the time to ride someone elses coat-tails to move up.

My point is, YES, these guys aren't cutting the mustard; but what did you really expect? I can see stuff that they are missing, just like y'all can; but the difference is, I see WHY they missed what they did and most of you guys don't. For example, yesterday on the "pass interference" call on the uncatchable ball. The ball should've been clearly noticed as being uncatchable--but if you go back and look at the video of what the ref was looking at, he was so locked in on the "contact" that he lost focus of the ball. He knew it was overthrown, but did the contact cause the ball to appear uncatchable? It's 100% judgment call at that point. You can get so focused on one thing that you miss something equally important. I know that I have. I've had 2 players sparring throught a series, and I will decide that I'm going to watch them closer to "make sure it doesn't get out of hand." And when you do--you're just about guaranteed to miss something somewhere else.

It happens guys...

Luv_ya_blue
09-24-2012, 10:34 AM
How many calls would the regular refs missed?

Remember the Steelers/Seahawks SB? I would rather have bad refs than crooked refs. I'm kinda enjoying this brand of football. Where WR's have to go across the middle with the fear of getting laid out like Heyward-Bey did yesterday. Or Vick getting pounded instead of being protected by the refs.

Old School football is back. They may miss a few calls, but replay corrects most of them. Considering how bad the regular refs are, the only difference is the amount of time that the replacement refs take to get the calls correct. As a fan I can live with this.

Did you see the replay?
The hit on Vick was absolutely clean.

NitroGSXR
09-24-2012, 10:42 AM
One example in how many years? Do you think that these guys aren't partial to one team or another? This guy was clearly biased in his fandom. I officiated my HS alma mater for about a dozen games last year. I was secretly hoping my old HS team would do well, but that doesn't IN ANYWAY mean that I'd "miss" even one call for them. A garbage example imo.

Years? What are you talking about? He only officiated ONE game before he got popped and the rest of them just finished their third game.

Luv_ya_blue
09-24-2012, 10:45 AM
Years? What are you talking about? He only officiated ONE game before he got popped and the rest of them just finished their third game.

I meant, one example of an "impartial" official out of how many hundreds of refs over the years. He's a fan. So what!

Maybe I should've said it a different way...

You don't get to throw the baby out with the bathwater. One biased official doesn't automatically mean that all of them are. How does this one guy in any way, prove anything???

cuppacoffee
09-24-2012, 10:57 AM
How many calls would the regular refs missed?

Remember the Steelers/Seahawks SB? I would rather have bad refs than crooked refs. I'm kinda enjoying this brand of football. Where WR's have to go across the middle with the fear of getting laid out like Heyward-Bey did yesterday. Or Vick getting pounded instead of being protected by the refs.

Old School football is back. They may miss a few calls, but replay corrects most of them. Considering how bad the regular refs are, the only difference is the amount of time that the replacement refs take to get the calls correct. As a fan I can live with this.


Seconded. ^^^

I can see improvement from game to game. If the damn announcers would quit showing bias toward the union officials I don't think most watchers would give it so much thought.

The only negative I notice is the slight slow down in making / enforcing calls, and again, I think they are improving greatly from week to week.

And as was said during one game yesterday if the refs would flag some of the extra shoving matches after the play it would all simmer down to normal.

I just don't think its all that bad.

:coffee:

Luv_ya_blue
09-24-2012, 11:00 AM
Seconded. ^^^

I can see improvement from game to game. If the damn announcers would quit showing bias toward the union officials I don't think most watchers would give it so much thought.

The only negative I notice is the slight slow down in making / enforcing calls, and again, I think they are improving greatly from week to week.

And as was said during one game yesterday if the refs would flag some of the extra shoving matches after the play it would all simmer down to normal.

I just don't think its all that bad.

:coffee:

Good post Cup.
I think that the only reason that's happening is because they want to get the call and the enforcement correct. Sometimes they still don't--but it's why they get together. Trying to get it right.

NitroGSXR
09-24-2012, 11:07 AM
I meant, one example of an "impartial" official out of how many hundreds of refs over the years. He's a fan. So what!

Maybe I should've said it a different way...

You don't get to throw the baby out with the bathwater. One biased official doesn't automatically mean that all of them are. How does this one guy in any way, prove anything???

Me thinks you are confused on what exactly the topic is... which is replacement referees.

I have no idea where you are going with throwing out the bathwater thing. Seems like you're putting words in my mouth to strengthen your argument. I never implied nor claimed any such thing. Thanks.

FWIW, I don't think he was biased. He made an unprofessional decision. You may be okay with that but I'm certainly not. Decision-making is everything when it comes to refereeing. These referees are making poor decisions on and off the field and we haven't even reached the 1/4 point of the season. It's getting dreadful in a hurry.

Dread-Head
09-24-2012, 11:14 AM
This guy is the definition of no class. Putting his hands on the ref after the game. I can't stand him.

They gave him a slap on the wrist when the discovered he'd been CHEATING for years they'll do the same now.

RazorOye
09-24-2012, 11:26 AM
Sure they can...but would YOU? Every HS & college ref dreams of a shot to officiate in the pros. Would you turn down an opportunity handed to you to do something that you've always dreamed of? I don't think so.


then that invalidates at least *some* of the "They didn't ask for this!" defense. Because they, well, did.

I'm not saying it's all their fault, because it isn't. Neither are they blameless, though. They took the job - as you say, it's what they all dreamed of. The bigs. The pros. The show. Well, with that comes a lot of scrutiny. They are bungling a lot of simple rules - the Saints game yesterday was a mess. Well, the Saints are a mess and they are playing like dog**** but aside from that, the refs were a mess.

It was slow. They bungled calls. 5 reversals. Huge missed plays right in front of officials - on both sides. (Note, I am not blaming the refs for the loss - the Saints deserved it. Ugh...)

You go to the NFL, with millions watching, then you deal with the 'cheer-onsequences.'

That includes people criticizing you for plays that you missed. Rules you didn't know. Blatant oversights. Things you did wrong.

We get that all refs miss huge calls. But there seems to be a growing discontent and compounding failure as the season grows on.

It really is hurting football.

Steve Young was 100% right. All he cares about is ratings and $$$$$. Not "integrity" or "competitive fairness" or "safety." ANd he won't change because he doesn't have to. He can be a megalomaniacal egocentric bugger. Because people will still watch. The NFL will rake in the cash. Everything else is either secondary or feigned indignation.

I've said it before this year - and I'll say it again.

Goodell is an equivocating, duplicitous politician. He cares about ratings and image. Things like fairness and integrity and player safety are just words.

He's not good for football. At least not the football most of us grew up watching and loved.

I don't trust the guy. And would agree with the WSJ (I think it was the WSJ) who said last year that Goodell might be the worst commissioner in sports.

That's saying something when you're up against the likes of Selig, Bettman, and Stern.

Luv_ya_blue
09-24-2012, 11:27 AM
Me thinks you are confused on what exactly the topic is... which is replacement referees.

I have no idea where you are going with throwing out the bathwater thing. Seems like you're putting words in my mouth to strengthen your argument. I never implied nor claimed any such thing. Thanks.

FWIW, I don't think he was biased. He made an unprofessional decision. You may be okay with that but I'm certainly not. Decision-making is everything when it comes to refereeing. These referees are making poor decisions on and off the field and we haven't even reached the 1/4 point of the season. It's getting dreadful in a hurry.

Talk about putting words in people's mouth.
You post a picture without any words and you get upset because someone else draws their own conclusion. Geez.

steelbtexan
09-24-2012, 11:27 AM
This guy is the definition of no class. Putting his hands on the ref after the game. I can't stand him.

Could you stand him before the game?

The guy out works most HC's in the league. When you put that much time and effort into something, you're going to be overly emotional about stuff when things dont go your way.

Belichick is the greatest HC of his generation. IMHO

I get that some people dont like that fact he will do anything to get a win. But that's why they have a scoreboard. I respect guys like Belichick

gtexan02
09-24-2012, 11:35 AM
Field goal kicks that pass directly over the upright are not reviewable because there is no camera which would help indicate in or out.

Bellicheck did not know whether it was directly above or not, and was asking for clarification about whether the play could be reviewed. It was a game deciding kick and he wanted to know if it was going to be looked at. None of the refs gave him any feedback. No wonder he was frustrated. Its not like he assaulted the guy, he just tried to catch up to him to get his attention

Fine should be coming. No suspension

HJam72
09-24-2012, 11:36 AM
Could you stand him before the game?

The guy out works most HC's in the league. When you put that much time and effort into something, you're going to be overly emotional about stuff when things dont go your way.

Belichick is the greatest HC of his generation. IMHO

I get that some people dont like that fact he will do anything to get a win. But that's why they have a scoreboard. I respect guys like Belichick

Most people will never really respect him again because of that, and it will be to his dismay, especially since he sees that he won X number of Superbowls and has himself convinced he "earned" every one of them, conveniently forgetting that he cheated. I don't know how much or how well he would've done without cheating, but he very likely THINKS he earned it all....and he most definitely did not, which is how people will treat him in the long run.

I don't think there is a man on Earth who like to admit that they didn't earn or somehow at least deserve what they got (if it is anything good), so it will make you happier to not actually get what you don't earn--assuming you are not starving to death or in bad need of medical attention...

disaacks3
09-24-2012, 11:37 AM
My point is, YES, these guys aren't cutting the mustard; but what did you really expect? I can see stuff that they are missing, just like y'all can; but the difference is, I see WHY they missed what they did and most of you guys don't. For example, yesterday on the "pass interference" call on the uncatchable ball. The ball should've been clearly noticed as being uncatchable--but if you go back and look at the video of what the ref was looking at, he was so locked in on the "contact" that he lost focus of the ball. He knew it was overthrown, but did the contact cause the ball to appear uncatchable? It's 100% judgment call at that point. You can get so focused on one thing that you miss something equally important. I know that I have. I've had 2 players sparring throught a series, and I will decide that I'm going to watch them closer to "make sure it doesn't get out of hand." And when you do--you're just about guaranteed to miss something somewhere else.

It happens guys... "Most" is a pretty broad assumption. Lots of us have eyes and know what the rules are.

EX: Lestar Jean's TD reception that he didn't maintain control of all the way through the ground was mis-ruled by the official on the spot? Why? That official wasn't looking at the ball in Jean's hands, he was only watching the feet (which he incorrectly ruled OUT of bounds). He never, ever turned his head to watch the rest of the play to see Jean have trouble with control.

While the ultimate outcome of that play wasn't changed, it sure wasn't due to a correct "real-time" call.

As I see it, we've got TWO major issues with the replacement refs.

A) They keep screwing up procedural issues. (Extra downs, timeouts, wrong penalty yardage)

B) Rules are "looser" - (WRs getting mugged, DL getting mugged, chop blocks)

It's getting to the point where I'm no longer sure they haven't cost a team a game. It shouldn't be that way.

HJam72
09-24-2012, 11:45 AM
"Most" is a pretty broad assumption. Lots of us have eyes and know what the rules are.

EX: Lestar Jean's TD reception that he didn't maintain control of all the way through the ground was mis-ruled by the official on the spot? Why? That official wasn't looking at the ball in Jean's hands, he was only watching the feet (which he incorrectly ruled OUT of bounds). He never, ever turned his head to watch the rest of the play to see Jean have trouble with control.

While the ultimate outcome of that play wasn't changed, it sure wasn't due to a correct "real-time" call.

As I see it, we've got TWO major issues with the replacement refs.

A) They keep screwing up procedural issues. (Extra downs, timeouts, wrong penalty yardage)

B) Rules are "looser" - (WRs getting mugged, DL getting mugged, chop blocks)

It's getting to the point where I'm no longer sure they haven't cost a team a game. It shouldn't be that way.

Oh, I'm sure they have. With games going into OT and/or being won by 1 point. I wouldn't swear at all that the regular refs don't cost teams games and I'd bet on it that these refs are costing somebody a game somewhere. NE vs. Balt--Balt wins by 1. Mia. in OT. Cinci and Wash. in OT, etc. Somebody is bound to have gotten SCREWED with all the confusion going on. Home teams are winning WAY too often right now and it's obviously crowd noise swaying decisions, but the clueless-ness is definitely there too.

Luv_ya_blue
09-24-2012, 11:51 AM
then that invalidates at least *some* of the "They didn't ask for this!" defense. Because they, well, did.

I'm not saying it's all their fault, because it isn't. Neither are they blameless, though. They took the job - as you say, it's what they all dreamed of. The bigs. The pros. The show. Well, with that comes a lot of scrutiny. They are bungling a lot of simple rules - the Saints game yesterday was a mess. Well, the Saints are a mess and they are playing like dog**** but aside from that, the refs were a mess.

It was slow. They bungled calls. 5 reversals. Huge missed plays right in front of officials - on both sides. (Note, I am not blaming the refs for the loss - the Saints deserved it. Ugh...)

You go to the NFL, with millions watching, then you deal with the 'cheer-onsequences.'

That includes people criticizing you for plays that you missed. Rules you didn't know. Blatant oversights. Things you did wrong.

We get that all refs miss huge calls. But there seems to be a growing discontent and compounding failure as the season grows on.

It really is hurting football.

I've said it before this year - and I'll say it again.

Goodell is an equivocating, duplicitous politician. He cares about ratings and image. Things like fairness and integrity and player safety are just words.

He's not good for football. At least not the football most of us grew up watching and loved.

I don't trust the guy. And would agree with the WSJ (I think it was the WSJ) who said last year that Goodell might be the worst commissioner in sports.

That's saying something when you're up against the likes of Selig, Bettman, and Stern.

That's why I went back and restated what I originally said.

I don't think most people realize that there are "replacements" or alternates that come into pro games all the time. The only reason this is such a big deal is because we KNOW that they're replacements. It's funny to me.

Luv_ya_blue
09-24-2012, 11:53 AM
"Most" is a pretty broad assumption. Lots of us have eyes and know what the rules are.

EX: Lestar Jean's TD reception that he didn't maintain control of all the way through the ground was mis-ruled by the official on the spot? Why? That official wasn't looking at the ball in Jean's hands, he was only watching the feet (which he incorrectly ruled OUT of bounds). He never, ever turned his head to watch the rest of the play to see Jean have trouble with control.

While the ultimate outcome of that play wasn't changed, it sure wasn't due to a correct "real-time" call.

As I see it, we've got TWO major issues with the replacement refs.

A) They keep screwing up procedural issues. (Extra downs, timeouts, wrong penalty yardage)

B) Rules are "looser" - (WRs getting mugged, DL getting mugged, chop blocks)

It's getting to the point where I'm no longer sure they haven't cost a team a game. It shouldn't be that way.

And your example proves my point.
When you're so focused on "did he get both feet in" you miss "did he maintain possession throughout."
It's not just one thing that you're looking at. But your point is well taken bro.

toronto
09-24-2012, 12:02 PM
1. The reffing is horrible. No debate about it.

2. Steve Young's rant was spot on.


The Goodell run NFL is going to come down hard of Bellichick, I wouldn't be surprised to see a suspension, at the very least a stiff fine. Goodell doesn't like to let anyone show him up, and that is how he will view it after sending around the "play nice with others" memo last week.

Any idea when this Steve Young rant happened? I'd like to find it.

NitroGSXR
09-24-2012, 12:08 PM
Field goal kicks that pass directly over the upright are not reviewable because there is no camera which would help indicate in or out.

Bellicheck did not know whether it was directly above or not, and was asking for clarification about whether the play could be reviewed. It was a game deciding kick and he wanted to know if it was going to be looked at. None of the refs gave him any feedback. No wonder he was frustrated. Its not like he assaulted the guy, he just tried to catch up to him to get his attention

Fine should be coming. No suspension

Bingo. All scoring plays now automatically reviewed right? Or is it TDs only? My understanding is scoring plays.

I bet there will be a camera there next week.

I say no fines at all. He did nothing malicious.

Luv_ya_blue
09-24-2012, 12:10 PM
As a sidenote concerning referees...

I'm not sure if it still is or not, but it used to be a FELONY to threaten a sports official in the State of Texas.

Not saying Belidork actually threatened him...just throwing something else into the mix.

steelbtexan
09-24-2012, 12:22 PM
"Most" is a pretty broad assumption. Lots of us have eyes and know what the rules are.

EX: Lestar Jean's TD reception that he didn't maintain control of all the way through the ground was mis-ruled by the official on the spot? Why? That official wasn't looking at the ball in Jean's hands, he was only watching the feet (which he incorrectly ruled OUT of bounds). He never, ever turned his head to watch the rest of the play to see Jean have trouble with control.

While the ultimate outcome of that play wasn't changed, it sure wasn't due to a correct "real-time" call.

As I see it, we've got TWO major issues with the replacement refs.

A) They keep screwing up procedural issues. (Extra downs, timeouts, wrong penalty yardage)

B) Rules are "looser" - (WRs getting mugged, DL getting mugged, chop blocks)

It's getting to the point where I'm no longer sure they haven't cost a team a game. It shouldn't be that way.

A- is a slight problem. Nothing major, regular officials make these mistakes too.

B- I like the game being played with looser rules. This undo's some of the damage God'ell has done to the game with his silly rules changes. It makes football a more physical game. That's a good thing for most long time NFL fans.

toronto
09-24-2012, 12:23 PM
How many calls would the regular refs missed?

Remember the Steelers/Seahawks SB? I would rather have bad refs than crooked refs. I'm kinda enjoying this brand of football. Where WR's have to go across the middle with the fear of getting laid out like Heyward-Bey did yesterday. Or Vick getting pounded instead of being protected by the refs.

Old School football is back. They may miss a few calls, but replay corrects most of them. Considering how bad the regular refs are, the only difference is the amount of time that the replacement refs take to get the calls correct. As a fan I can live with this.

Let's play devil's advocate here. Say next week (and I sure don't see this happening and I'm a Titan fan) the Titans/Texans game comes down to the wire and the refs make the same kind of bonehead call like the free 12 yards they gave the Titans on the personal foul in OT versus the Lions, and the Texans lose the game.

How would you then feel?

stingray
09-24-2012, 12:26 PM
Could you stand him before the game?

The guy out works most HC's in the league. When you put that much time and effort into something, you're going to be overly emotional about stuff when things dont go your way.

Belichick is the greatest HC of his generation. IMHO

I get that some people dont like that fact he will do anything to get a win. But that's why they have a scoreboard. I respect guys like Belichick

Whoever said he wasn't a great coach? Yes, he does his job very well, but the man is a ********* with no class. I have met plenty of people who are great at their jobs but are total jerks. And that is what Bellichick is. A jerk. And you can still be a great coach and have class, e.g. Bill Walsh, Tom Landry.

stingray
09-24-2012, 12:28 PM
And I didn't intend this thread to be about good or bad referring. Just because a call or calls are made against you doesn't give you the right to act like a douche.

RazorOye
09-24-2012, 12:33 PM
Any idea when this Steve Young rant happened? I'd like to find it.

http://youtu.be/fdW36gWDFu0

NitroGSXR
09-24-2012, 12:35 PM
And I didn't intend this thread to be about good or bad referring. Just because a call or calls are made against you doesn't give you the right to act like a douche.

Fair enough... when the referee ran off, Belichick immediately turned to Harbaugh and shook his hand. I do mean immediately. That simply wasn't real indicative of any form of douche-baggery. Schwartz would have kept chasing him down like he did the other Harbaugh.

Mr teX
09-24-2012, 12:38 PM
yeah he's a turd...but he's allowed to be that way b/c he wins...u dont grab on refs..in any sport. in the nba its a technical foul immediately...in the nfl its an automatic 15 yarder and fine for the player...The part that kills me with this is that the league just sent out memos that week about coaches coming out on the field trying to rattle these refs....and then he goes off & does that. He's a douch & deserves everything he's got coming to him from boss hogg Goodell. his press conference response to the incident says it all....


j. Harbaugh for the 49ers is another douch too.....the guy acts like every call against his team is the biggest injustice in the world....always jumping up & down & spit talking.

Double Barrel
09-24-2012, 12:46 PM
I'm sure Belichick will take whatever punishment the NFL levies against him like a pro.

Dude was caught up in the heat of the moment after losing a really tough game. I saw nothing malicious about his mistake.

toronto
09-24-2012, 12:51 PM
I'm sure Belichick will take whatever punishment the NFL levies against him like a pro.

Dude was caught up in the heat of the moment after losing a really tough game. I saw nothing malicious about his mistake.

+1

That was a tough game to lose and I suspect a LOT of NFL coaches would have had a similar reaction post-game.

Its not like Harbaugh was exactly chummy with the refs last night. I lost track of how many times he was practically putting his saliva on their faces....and I doubt he was asking these guys "so how's it going"

Mr teX
09-24-2012, 12:56 PM
I'm sure Belichick will take whatever punishment the NFL levies against him like a pro.

Dude was caught up in the heat of the moment after losing a really tough game. I saw nothing malicious about his mistake.

it wasnt maliciuos but it shows his brazeness...especially after most of the calls that the refs screwed up on really benefited his team.

Double Barrel
09-24-2012, 12:59 PM
+1

That was a tough game to lose and I suspect a LOT of NFL coaches would have had a similar reaction post-game.

Its not like Harbaugh was exactly chummy with the refs last night. I lost track of how many times he was practically putting his saliva on their faces....and I doubt he was asking these guys "so how's it going"

yep. And remember Harbaugh got a bench penalty in the 4th. HE BUMPED A REF. (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-belichick-made-contact-with-official-harbaugh-gets-unsportsmanlike-conduct-penalty-20120923,0,772436.story) How is he getting off light in this thread and not being called classless? It seems a bit of pre-conceived bias is at play here.

BOTH coaches should be fined by the league if the NFL wants to remain consistent with protecting the refs.

Or better yet, the NFL needs to wake up to the reality that their image and quality is being affected here.

Mr teX
09-24-2012, 01:01 PM
yep. And remember Harbaugh got a bench penalty in the 4th. HE BUMPED A REF. (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/ravens-insider/bal-belichick-made-contact-with-official-harbaugh-gets-unsportsmanlike-conduct-penalty-20120923,0,772436.story) How is he getting off light in this thread and not being called classless? It seems a bit of pre-conceived bias is at play here.

BOTH coaches should be fined by the league if the NFL wants to remain consistent with protecting the refs.

Or better yet, the NFL needs to wake up to the reality that their image and quality is being affected here.

accidental vs intentional db...

Joeycharp89
09-24-2012, 01:30 PM
What? New England made the Super Bowl last year. He hasn't had a losing season since 2000. I think Belichick's job is safe.

You obviously haven't been to Boston. As soon as you get a losing record with any New England team folks will start talking about how you are "on the hot seat." I don't think I've heard a Boston sports radio show that didn't mention how one coach or another was close to being fired.

Vinny
09-24-2012, 01:35 PM
haven't read the thread but I've seen all the footage and I see someone grabbing a guys arm to talk to him who is running past him....well, what's the big deal?

toronto
09-24-2012, 01:38 PM
You obviously haven't been to Boston. As soon as you get a losing record with any New England team folks will start talking about how you are "on the hot seat." I don't think I've heard a Boston sports radio show that didn't mention how one coach or another was close to being fired.

Terry Francona represents Exhibit A, B and C.

1) End Curse of Bambino
2) Win 2nd title to end any chat that 1st title was fluke
3) Raise expectations in city to WS title every year instead of "what choke is gonna happen to us now"

Canned after 1st bad season. The Boston sports media is the most ruthless in the land. When they turn on you (especially since a lot of writers have been accused of being in the team's back pocket) they leave no doubt - the venom is insane there.

That's part of the reason why Belichick is so awful with the media there. He's too smart to give a **** what they think and knows he can't win the PR war.

Mr teX
09-24-2012, 01:40 PM
haven't read the thread but I've seen all the footage and I see someone grabbing a guys arm to talk to him who is running past him....well, what's the big deal?

If you pay close attention, the ref "jerks" away from him a bit too. Obviously he didn't appreciate Belichick grabbing on him like a child. As i said in an earlier post too, his press conference response says it all...no apology or anything, just kinda "i don't care"..

Vinny
09-24-2012, 02:24 PM
If you pay close attention, the ref "jerks" away from him a bit too. Obviously he didn't appreciate Belichick grabbing on him like a child. As i said in an earlier post too, his press conference response says it all...no apology or anything, just kinda "i don't care"..

The ref could have stopped and talked. I probably wouldn't have cared either if someone who's job impacts my job won't give me a moment of clarity.

HOU-TEX
09-24-2012, 02:44 PM
Fox and DelRio were just fined a total of 55 grand for yelling at them. I imagine Billy will be writing a large check soon too. Disregarding "the grab", he was tossin f-bombs at them left and right.

We need to start blaming the NFL for the refs, not the refs. Heck, it ain't their fault they were tossed into the fire. They've had zero experience with the type of game the NFL plays. Don't get me wrong, I've done my fair share of cursing the refs during a game. But I usually reflect on who's to blame afterwards

gtexan02
09-24-2012, 03:01 PM
You obviously haven't been to Boston. As soon as you get a losing record with any New England team folks will start talking about how you are "on the hot seat." I don't think I've heard a Boston sports radio show that didn't mention how one coach or another was close to being fired.

I don't get that sense at all. Theres a big difference in Francona being fired and Bellichick. Francona's last WS appearance was 2007. They made the playoffs, barely, in 08 and 09. And then in 2010 and 2011 they collapsed. In 2011 they had a 9 game league that they squandered. Francona openly admitted that there were leadership problems. Plus, his contract was up in 2011. Its not like he was "canned" randomly.

Bellicheck was in the superbowl last year. He isn't going anywhere, trust me.

And all this baloney about Boston fans being so harsh. What do you have to say about the Celtics? What do you have to say about the years and years of pre 2004 Red Sox?

Boston is "Title Town" for a reason. They've won a ton of championships and so they have high expectations. But they aren't unjustified.

Joeycharp89
09-24-2012, 03:08 PM
I don't get that sense at all. Theres a big difference in Francona being fired and Bellichick. Francona's last WS appearance was 2007. They made the playoffs, barely, in 08 and 09. And then in 2010 and 2011 they collapsed. In 2011 they had a 9 game league that they squandered. Francona openly admitted that there were leadership problems. Plus, his contract was up in 2011. Its not like he was "canned" randomly.

Bellicheck was in the superbowl last year. He isn't going anywhere, trust me.

And all this baloney about Boston fans being so harsh. What do you have to say about the Celtics? What do you have to say about the years and years of pre 2004 Red Sox?

Boston is "Title Town" for a reason. They've won a ton of championships and so they have high expectations. But they aren't unjustified.

I was just referring to how it becomes a discussion whether it should or not. It just seems to always be on the tip of their tongue when things even show a hint of going south.

When it comes to teams I sit at:

Patriots
Texans
Celtics
Red Sox

I'd throw in Bruins but I honestly never watch hockey, and I rarely watch baseball.

I love the teams though, I just get frustrated when I go up to Boston for a visit. It's not even the majority of fans, it's just an incredibly vocal and toxic minority that really gets on my nerves. And every now and then that toxicity can spread.

toronto
09-24-2012, 03:28 PM
I was just referring to how it becomes a discussion whether it should or not. It just seems to always be on the tip of their tongue when things even show a hint of going south.

When it comes to teams I sit at:

Patriots
Texans
Celtics
Red Sox

I'd throw in Bruins but I honestly never watch hockey, and I rarely watch baseball.

I love the teams though, I just get frustrated when I go up to Boston for a visit. It's not even the majority of fans, it's just an incredibly vocal and toxic minority that really gets on my nerves. And every now and then that toxicity can spread.

I work for Rogers Sportsnet up here, and the mothership owns the network and the Blue Jays - so I have been to a ton of games for work the last 2 seasons.

I can tell you 100% that Red Sox fans are MUCH more obnoxious and rude than Yankee fans. Its unbelievable. The two titles have gone WAY to their heads.

steelbtexan
09-24-2012, 03:46 PM
Did you see the replay?
The hit on Vick was absolutely clean.

Yep

But the regular refs call unnecessary roughness penalties on almost every hard hit.

The replacement refs not so much. I like hard hitting football and that's what we have right now.

gtexan02
09-24-2012, 03:48 PM
I work for Rogers Sportsnet up here, and the mothership owns the network and the Blue Jays - so I have been to a ton of games for work the last 2 seasons.

I can tell you 100% that Red Sox fans are MUCH more obnoxious and rude than Yankee fans. Its unbelievable. The two titles have gone WAY to their heads.

100% of what? Your opinion? I live in Boston and go to a lot of sporting events. I've been to two Yankee/Red Sox games in Boston and never seen any sort of serious incidents. I've been to one non- Red Sox/Yankees game in NY and saw Yankees fans acting like asshats the entire time.

I'm not going to generalize an entire population of fans on my own personal opinions though

Hervoyel
09-24-2012, 04:11 PM
I don't even understand why he touched him. He could have simply used the force to block his path and a jolt or two of force lightning if the official had tried to get away.

Darth Belichick is usually smarter than thaaaa.aach...acck!

toronto
09-24-2012, 04:21 PM
100% of what? Your opinion? I live in Boston and go to a lot of sporting events. I've been to two Yankee/Red Sox games in Boston and never seen any sort of serious incidents. I've been to one non- Red Sox/Yankees game in NY and saw Yankees fans acting like asshats the entire time.

I'm not going to generalize an entire population of fans on my own personal opinions though

Yes my opinion. They are louder, cuss more, make fun of Jays fans (not that they don't deserve it) and treat the road game like a home game. I've seen a ton of disrespectful obnoxious behaviour that was NEVER there before the WS wins.

That's what I've seen or a perception of what I have seen. And I'm not a Jays fan, an Astros fan (kill me) so I actually am more neutral on this than usual.

Playoffs
09-27-2012, 08:19 AM
Bill Belichick fined $50,000 by NFL

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2012/09/26/bill-belichick-fined-nfl/iSudqdHDAhq8pdwVxICd2O/story.html