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Lady.Gaga.3000
09-13-2012, 01:57 PM
Is Matt Schaub clutch? Paul Kuharsky poses that question (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/40998/on-matt-schaub-and-the-clutch-question).

Based on his résumé so far, if we’re still buying the conventional definitions, the answer has to be we don’t know yet. He’s won games in big moments. He’s lost games in big moments. And because he missed the stretch run and playoffs last season because of a right foot Lisfranc injury, we simply haven’t seen him enough in the big settings to know.

When I think of clutch, I think of a quarterback who can be counted on to go out there and get that critical 3rd down and set up a score when the team needs it. Turnovers in the second half, particularly the fourth-quarter of a close game, are killers. At the very least, that is the unclutch of the NFL. Eli Manning comes to mind when I think of clutch. Statistically a decent regular season quarterback, but seemingly a man amongst men in the biggest games of his career at the most crucial times.

We haven’t seen Matt Schaub play a good team since week 6 in Baltimore last year. If you recall the Texans did not score a point in the fourth-quarter. PK quoted some stupid games if you ask me. What I recall most of Schaub and pondering the question of whether he is clutch or not is the 4th quarter of the Saints game last year. After the Texans defense did wonders in the first half by holding the Saints offensive machine to 10 points, they subsequently crumbled in the second half, particularly the fourth-quarter.

Or rather, did Drew Brees come up “clutch” in the second half? On the five drives New Orleans had in the fourth-quarter, the Saints produced three touchdowns, one punt, and one kneel-down to end the game. Meanwhile the Texans had four full drives in the fourth-quarter with one three-and-out, one three play drive ending in an interception, one touchdown, and a four play drive resulting in a game ending turnover on downs.

This is the drive chart of both teams in the 4th quarter, minus the Texans TD scored on the first play of the fourth-quarter. The Texans are white and the Saints are black.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd385/stupiddisputes/texanssaintsdrives.png

I know Schaub has no direct control over how good or bad the Texans defense was, but he did give the defense a nine point lead to start the fourth-quarter (it was 26-17 when the Saints got their first offensive drive in the 4th quarter).

However, this is when I question Matt Schaub being clutch. The Texans just received the ball leading 26-24 with nine minutes left. Kubiak (or somebody) called three straight passes, with the third pass being a deep 3rd and 10 pass for Andre Johnson that was intercepted by a defender underneath of Johnson. Maybe somebody with nfl.com’s coachs film could tell me, but it appeared that Schaub didn’t see him?

I hate playing what-if’s, but even Walters touchdown bounce in the fourth-quarter should have been an interception. If the Saints turn the ball over just once in the fourth-quarter of that game, the Texans chances of winning that game increases dramatically. Unfortunately for Texans fans the Super Bowl MVP never faltered once (in the 4th).

Teams have their good days and their bad days. Drew Brees could not get it done Sunday against the Redskins. Does that make him less clutch or not clutch anymore? In the five drives that the Saints had in the fourth-quarter, the Saints produced one three-and-out, two touchdowns, and two interceptions. With 3:40 left in the game and the Saints down by 8, Brees throws an interception returned to the Saints 3 yard line and put the nail in the coffin. Does that take away from the fact that Brees was clutch in week 3 versus the Houston Texans? Hell, Eli Manning couldn’t come back against the Cowboys last week. And there’s certainly no Drive by Elway without Byner’s fumble. *end of rambling*

No team wins every game. Even quarterbacks who are constantly associated with clutch are not clutch sometimes. Are the quarterbacks coming back from behind because they were bad in the first half? Perhaps some quarterbacks seem to be more clutch than others simply because they are getting more chances at game-winning drives. Some however just seem destined to fail. Eli Manning's antithesis Tony Romo makes me cringe in the fourth-quarter. It always seems like Romo...Cowboys...find a way to lose a close game. However, Romo has the highest fourth-quarter passing rating (http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4696976/do-stats-lie-no-qb-better-than-tony-romo-in-fourth-quarter) among active quarterbacks. Statistics can be so clutch.

Is Schaub clutch to me? Should we even care? What if Schaubs not considered a clutch quarterback because he's so efficient at getting his team a halftime lead that there are rarely moments for him to shine in the fourth quarter. At the very moment in a fourth-quarter when Schaub is facing 3rd and long and the defense is blitzing, are you turning in your stomach or cheering with confidence? I still do not know if I believe in clutch. But then I see things in the NFL and I find myself saying, "Man, that was clutch!"

Remember when Schaub led the Texans back from a 21-point second half deficit against the Ravens two Decembers ago, only to throw a pick six in overtime. Was that clutch and then…not clutch?

Does clutch even exist?

GP
09-13-2012, 02:21 PM
The better question is "Does he grasp AND perform the Kubiak offense well enough to let the offense operate as it should?"

Yes.

Clutch? Too many intangibles to really factor if he is clutch or not, same goes for the other 31 starting QBs out there. A fluke play here, a bad bounce there, when does a QB's ability end??? He is one guy.

So for me, I just say that Matt Schaub earned an extension because he proved he could come back and play football on that foot of his AND he knows Kubiak's offense and performs it the way I think Kubiak expects him to.

Which is something TJ Yates and Case Keenum better start doing a better job at, IMO. If they want a future here a few years from now.

ckhouston
09-13-2012, 02:25 PM
Clutch to me is like Brady or Manning and there is 2 minutes left and they need to drive the length of the field and score ... and you just know they are going to do it.

Matt has had his moments, but also made huge game ending mistakes.

Far as I am concerned he isnt right now, but now has a new contract and more time to establish himself as someone who can be. Better hope that he does ... when you start playing deep in the playoffs it could be the difference between advancing or going home.

noxiousdog
09-13-2012, 02:55 PM
Clutch means you did it early in your career and got a label that doesn't go away for a long time. The reverse is also true.

qman_tx
09-13-2012, 03:38 PM
I remember early in the 2010 season...Schaub's TD passes to Andre late in the game against The Redskins and The Chiefs...I think he is clutch...

PapaL
09-13-2012, 05:24 PM
To me, all I remember are the late game INTs. I'm scared if we have to go the length of the field on a game winning drive.

welsh texan
09-13-2012, 05:39 PM
I think Kuharsky is right that we just don't know. We've seen bits of both. Kubiak hasn't helped at times either with some of his late game playcalling. I like Schaub and I know we could do a heck of a lot worse. I just hope to hell he can stay healthy this season.

I don't think I'll ever be comfortable watching anyone QB the Texans in a late 4th Quarter drive to win a game, I'm scarred for life on that front from years of futility, and losing records based on countless games each year that we nearly won.

There's also a lot to be said for having someone with the patience to play to the gameplan throughout the game and set up the game so that in the 4th Q we either have a lead to protect or have plenty of confusing looks up our sleeve that will make the defense blow big plays. I see a lot of that in Schaub. I'd much rather have that than a Tebow-like ability to play like **** all game and come up with a few big plays at the end to snatch a win.

Playoffs
09-13-2012, 05:42 PM
No.

This is Clutch:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh210/baycity222/Clutch1.jpg

Goldensilence
09-13-2012, 05:44 PM
From the sample size we've seen so far...No. Good news from what we've seen as well he's not a choke artist either.

It's a role he's going to have to grow into this year, but good news is he's not in a situation where he has the shoulder the load alone. He's got a couple of play makers around him in AJ, Foster, Tate, and OD can come up big. Defensively...well last week really showcased what this defense can do in getting turnovers and giving the offense short fields.

Will say this Matt's arm looked much better than I have seen in the pat, not sure if it was the adrenaline of first time after the layoff or if its something we can come to expect.

TejasTom
09-13-2012, 07:23 PM
http://nfltexans.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/schaub-on-rascal.jpghttp://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le80d0Q9Nx1qze1poo1_400.jpg

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 07:40 PM
In the PAST i have seen Schaub lead us down the field, tie or take the lead only so the defense can give up point of their own and give the other team the lead.

The stats dont say that he had already led the team down the field twice to take the lead only to lose it twice before finally throwing an INT. It only says the INT and forgets the (2 other game winning drives) haha

GP
09-13-2012, 07:43 PM
http://nfltexans.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/schaub-on-rascal.jpghttp://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le80d0Q9Nx1qze1poo1_400.jpg

OMG. He really IS Clutch.

:tinfoil:

thunderkyss
09-13-2012, 07:50 PM
To me, clutch means you keep the chains moving. One way or another, you find a way to keep the chains moving. Last week, I saw a semi parapalegic Peyton Manning pick up 10 yards for a first down, to keep the chains moving. I mention this because I know I'm going to hear how athletic Schaub isn't, but it really doesn't matter. Gotta keep the chains moving & whatever it takes...... gotta be done.

Sometimes, that's on the receiver. He's got to catch the ball. But when you think about the guys Peyton has thrown the ball to, or Brady, or Eli, or Rogers....... they aren't always the most talented guys in the world. Sometimes, you know that receiver gave all he had to make sure he caught that ball.

Imo, they do that, because they know that QB did everything he could to get the ball to him & he don't want to let him down. It's a form of leadership if you will.

Is Matt Schaub clutch? Not no, but hell no. Can he be? Hell yes he can. How do I know? because he did it in 2009 & off & on through out his career. He needs to do it more often than not & right now, that's just not the case.

thunderkyss
09-13-2012, 07:52 PM
In the PAST i have seen Schaub lead us down the field, tie or take the lead only so the defense can give up point of their own and give the other team the lead.

The stats dont say that he had already led the team down the field twice to take the lead only to lose it twice before finally throwing an INT. It only says the INT and forgets the (2 other game winning drives) haha

Did you watch Alex Smith against the Saints last year? In the play-offs? That was clutch. Had they lost, & the ball was last in Alex Smith's hands, that's not clutch.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 07:56 PM
Did you watch Alex Smith against the Saints last year? In the play-offs? That was clutch. Had they lost, & the ball was last in Alex Smith's hands, that's not clutch.

There is more to a QB being clutch than just him. In 2010 there were 3 games i can think of where Schaub gave us the lead and the defense gave the lead right back. Only one the defense did stop was the Redskins. Watch that last play and throw to AJ, he was under pressure, threw on the move to a nice spot and AJ made the catch.

thunderkyss
09-13-2012, 08:01 PM
There is more to a QB being clutch than just him. In 2010 there were 3 games i can think of where Schaub gave us the lead and the defense gave the lead right back. Only one the defense did stop was the Redskins. Watch that last play and throw to AJ, he was under pressure, threw on the move to a nice spot and AJ made the catch.

The defense started the third Qtr of the Giants game that year with a 3 & out & back to back turnovers. The offense couldn't get a first down.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 08:03 PM
The defense started the third Qtr with a 3 & out & back to back turnovers. The offense couldn't get a first down.

clutch at the end of the game, ur talking start of the 3rd quarter.

thunderkyss
09-13-2012, 08:05 PM
clutch at the end of the game, ur talking start of the 3rd quarter.

Clutch is clutch. If you're not clutch to start the third, you don't have a chance at the end of the game.

amazing80
09-13-2012, 08:07 PM
In the PAST i have seen Schaub lead us down the field, tie or take the lead only so the defense can give up point of their own and give the other team the lead.

The stats dont say that he had already led the team down the field twice to take the lead only to lose it twice before finally throwing an INT. It only says the INT and forgets the (2 other game winning drives) haha

This. There were PLENTY of games he led us down the field only to have our defense give up the lead. Im pretty sure we had 3 games in a row like this, I know for sure two, Colts and Jags I think back to back :toropalm:

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 08:09 PM
Clutch is clutch. If you're not clutch to start the third, you don't have a chance at the end of the game.

What that makes no sense, then u can count Schaub is clutch against miami since he turned all the turnovers into points. Since it was before the 2 minute warning ???

thunderkyss
09-13-2012, 08:12 PM
What that makes no sense, then u can count Schaub is clutch against miami since he turned all the turnovers into points. Since it was before the 2 minute warning ???

Let me put it to you this way. If you have a clutch QB, you can win the Super Bowl with the 31st ranked defense.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 08:12 PM
Clutch is clutch. If you're not clutch to start the third, you don't have a chance at the end of the game.

Not to mention Clutch is when it Matters most thats why its called clutch. Start of the third quarter going 3 and out dont make him not clutch.

Texan_Bill
09-13-2012, 08:13 PM
Is Matt Schaub clutch? Paul Kuharsky poses that question (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/40998/on-matt-schaub-and-the-clutch-question).


Does clutch even exist?

First off, I'm not sure why I'm responding to someone using a user name of Lady.Gaga.3000 :facepalm:
;)

In any event, my answer is this:
IF ALL three phases of the game perform, we'll never have to know. In other words, we should be better in all three phases where it shouldn't come down to Schaub "being clutch" for the simple fact that he's a good leader AND has "clutch players" to work with. He knows this offense in a brilliant manner, meaning he'll put the ball in the hands of those that can get it done!

"Clutch"? No.. More than competent?? YES!

BTW, Paul "Tinnbred Homer" Kuharsky has been, is, and always be an Tinnbred honk. Once in awhile he'll pull his head out of his ass!

I love my man Adam Clanton, but he and I must "agree to disagree" about Kuharsky!

BlueSteel
09-13-2012, 08:14 PM
The defense started the third Qtr with a 3 & out & back to back turnovers. The offense couldn't get a first down.

Schaub has played clutch in games and forced some throws that I am sure he would like back in other games. If you look at more games than last season, Schaub has shown us that he can be an elite QB.

Clutch is something that only happens when your team is down and the QB takes the team down the field to score/win the game. Schaub has done that and when he takes the field I do not cringe. I am confident in what he can do as a QB.

Why are we even questioning if Schaub is clutch? I would rather look at the Texans as all around winners than rely on a QB to win a last minute game for us each week.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 08:15 PM
Let me put it to you this way. If you have a clutch QB, you can win the Super Bowl with the 31st ranked defense.

Well then i can tell you in the 100 something years of the NFL there have been VERY few clutch QBs

HJam72
09-13-2012, 09:18 PM
When I think of what "clutch" really means to me for a QB, I only think of three QBs in the league right now (Brady, Manning, Brees)....and probably about 3 other young ones who will or might be some day. That leaves 29 teams without a currently "clutch" QB. I don't know if we should've waited to extend Schaub's contract or if we should've looked harder at Manning, but I do know that most NFL fans are going to have to live without a "clutch" QB and Schaub, if he stays healthy, can win a SB or two with good players around him, which we do have.

The Pencil Neck
09-13-2012, 11:34 PM
I don't think there's a QB out there that hasn't blown an opportunity to win a game in the 4th quarter for their team. I've seen Brady screw up. I've seen Manning blow it. I've seen Brees and Rodgers not get it done as well.

I've seen Schaub do everything that a clutch QB needs to do. I've seen him lead game winning drives. I've seen him score with under 2 minutes left to take a lead. Sometimes we've won those games and sometimes we haven't. Remember the Jets game where we took the lead with 45 seconds and then our defense screwed us or the Jaguar game where we took the lead at the end of the 4th and couldn't keep Garrard out of the end zone or the OTHER game against the Jaguars where Glover Quin knocked the hail mary pass right into the Jaguar's hands. I can't blame Schaub for those losses.

And I've seen Schaub push too hard and throw interceptions or just not get the first downs we need.

I said this a long time ago about Elway... I just want a QB that wins. I would prefer that he not have to do it in the last 2 minutes of the 4th quarter because if he's having to do that, it means he didn't play well enough the rest of the game. I'd prefer that we jump out to a lead every game and never let it go rather than having to pull one out at the end. But if we have to pull one out at the end, by all means have the defense to seal the deal.

Rey
09-13-2012, 11:40 PM
Can anyone honestly say that shammy has proven to be a choke artist?

Dude hasn't proven anything either way...

b0ng
09-13-2012, 11:41 PM
Everybody has their own stupid definition of the word "clutch" and its all subjective anyway. My big problem with Schaub is attendance more than it is in-game ability; he seems to fit what Kubiak wants out of a QB. As long as Kubiak has a job he's probably going to want Schaub on the roster and I'm okay with that.

He makes plays and has screw ups just like probably 80% of the league, he's certainly not a liability.

HJam72
09-14-2012, 07:50 AM
Only my definition of clutch matters. :tomato:

badboy
09-14-2012, 10:13 PM
Is Matt clutch, elite, an all pro, cannon arm, blah blah blah. I would imagine there have been QBs with none of that in Super Bowl. I' m more interested in do the players and coaches trust him and his leadership? Does he run the O and game plan given him. More importantly is he the best option we have or can get without giving up way too much? When you have minimal options, you take a deep breath and cross your fingers.

Showtime100
09-14-2012, 10:19 PM
Montana...clutch

Elway.......clutch

Schaub.....Texans QB

thunderkyss
09-14-2012, 10:31 PM
When you have minimal options, you take a deep breath and cross your fingers.

& you surround him with as much talent as possible.

badboy
09-14-2012, 10:53 PM
& you surround him with as much talent as possible.Bingo and enter Ric Smith. This team can really become something huge. Dynasty? Maybe but next game up.

The Pencil Neck
09-15-2012, 12:00 AM
Elway.......clutch

The king of the 4th quarter comeback who "couldn't win the big one."

After his SB losses (which were decidedly un-clutch), one joke went: How do you keep John Elway from getting to his front door? Put an end zone in front of it.

And this is what I was saying earlier, even the guys normally recognized as "clutch" don't necessarily have records as good as people imagine they do in those clutch situations.

Showtime100
09-15-2012, 12:10 AM
The king of the 4th quarter comeback who "couldn't win the big one."

After his SB losses (which were decidedly un-clutch), one joke went: How do you keep John Elway from getting to his front door? Put an end zone in front of it.

And this is what I was saying earlier, even the guys normally recognized as "clutch" don't necessarily have records as good as people imagine they do in those clutch situations.

Lol, I remember those jokes. I'll still take him in the 4th. :)

b0ng
09-15-2012, 12:26 PM
Lol, I remember those jokes. I'll still take him in the 4th. :)

Of course you would now, hindsight is always 20/20.

Showtime100
09-15-2012, 02:08 PM
Of course you would now, hindsight is always 20/20.

Does it make you feel any better when I say I would have done the same when we was playing? Yes, I thought he was good while he played. JH Christ, peeps.

TdotTexas2Step
09-15-2012, 02:52 PM
The thing is, we don't need Schaub to be "clutch". We have a team in place that's like a well oiled machine, fully built with a battery backup should something falter.

Defense is dynamic which gives us great field positioning, letting Schaub manage the game with a minimal amount of offensive plays needed. On offense, he doesn't have to carry the load because of our stellar run game and play action.

Yes, he'll have to make throws, but they're throws any NFL team would expect out of their QB. What Schaub is best at and why's he fits here perfectly is his ability to keep us on schedule to put points up on the board.

Texecutioner
09-15-2012, 03:12 PM
When I think of what "clutch" really means to me for a QB, I only think of three QBs in the league right now (Brady, Manning, Brees)....and probably about 3 other young ones who will or might be some day. That leaves 29 teams without a currently "clutch" QB. I don't know if we should've waited to extend Schaub's contract or if we should've looked harder at Manning, but I do know that most NFL fans are going to have to live without a "clutch" QB and Schaub, if he stays healthy, can win a SB or two with good players around him, which we do have.

Big Ben has been clutch a number of times. He has had like 21 last minute drives to win games or something like that. That is the definition of clutch and there really is no argument to suggest that he isn't with a stat like that. Aaron Rodgers is damn clutch as well and has proven that a number of times. Eli Manning has definitely proven that he is a clutch type of player.

I'd put the 3 you mentioned and those other two. There are about 5. Matt Ryan has had some nice clutch performances as well though.

The Pencil Neck
09-15-2012, 03:59 PM
If you're just looking at game-winning drives:

Here's the link (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm)

The current active players are:
1. Peyton Manning, 47 GWD
2. Tom Brady, 35 GWD
3. Kerry Collins, 30 GWD
4. Drew Brees, 29 GWD
5. Ben Roethlisberger, 26 GWD
6. Eli Manning, 25 GWD
7. Matt Hasselbeck, 22 GWD
8. Carson Palmer, 18 GWD
9. Matt Ryan, 16 GWD
10. Philip Rivers, 16 GWD
11. Jay Cutler, 16 GWD
12. Tony Romo, 14 GWD

Matt Schaub only has 10 GWD. Sanchez, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Rex Grossman -- all those guys have more game winning drives than Schaub. Even David Carr has 11 GWD.

But to me, that's not a great indicator of whether a QB is a good/great QB... although it does end up separating the men from the boys. I wouldn't want Jay Cutler, Carson Palmer, Kerry Collins, or Matt Hasselbeck over Schaub.

thunderkyss
09-15-2012, 04:40 PM
The General perception of Matt Schaub is going to be completely different at the end of the season.

infantrycak
09-15-2012, 05:46 PM
OK I have held off for 5 pages and will give my 2 cents - it is almost a useless question. It is undefinable. It is subject to way to many variables - it could be your TE hit in between the numbers in the endzone in the SB, it could be a misthrown ball which the WR miraculously catches on the side of his helmet in the SB, it could be your safety making exactly the play he is taught on a hail mary and it falls into someone's hands, it could be your D giving up an 80+ yard drive in under 50 seconds, etc. None of that reflects on the QB.

I know one thing. I watched Schaub orchestrate 5 straight scoring drives with one being 99 yards and the next 94 yards against one of the toughest defenses of the last decade. That kind of prolonged effort is clutch enough for me.

Grams
09-15-2012, 11:18 PM
If you're just looking at game-winning drives:

Here's the link (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm)

The current active players are:
1. Peyton Manning, 47 GWD
2. Tom Brady, 35 GWD
3. Kerry Collins, 30 GWD
4. Drew Brees, 29 GWD
5. Ben Roethlisberger, 26 GWD
6. Eli Manning, 25 GWD
7. Matt Hasselbeck, 22 GWD
8. Carson Palmer, 18 GWD
9. Matt Ryan, 16 GWD
10. Philip Rivers, 16 GWD
11. Jay Cutler, 16 GWD
12. Tony Romo, 14 GWD

Matt Schaub only has 10 GWD. Sanchez, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Rex Grossman -- all those guys have more game winning drives than Schaub. Even David Carr has 11 GWD.

But to me, that's not a great indicator of whether a QB is a good/great QB... although it does end up separating the men from the boys. I wouldn't want Jay Cutler, Carson Palmer, Kerry Collins, or Matt Hasselbeck over Schaub.

Anf the majority of these had what we did not until last year -a defense.

Texanmike02
09-15-2012, 11:21 PM
Its funny. I always hear that Manning is clutch and Brady etc. I seem to remember a lot of playoff games in which Manning looked terrible. Not only that but his completion to porter in the SB a few years back is a fine example of clutch if I've ever seen one. Clutch is a buzz word with very little substance. For all that Eli is called clutch, we would talk about him that way if Tyree didn't catch the ball with his helmet.

Mike

GuerillaBlack
09-16-2012, 12:30 AM
Its funny. I always hear that Manning is clutch and Brady etc. I seem to remember a lot of playoff games in which Manning looked terrible. Not only that but his completion to porter in the SB a few years back is a fine example of clutch if I've ever seen one. Clutch is a buzz word with very little substance. For all that Eli is called clutch, we would talk about him that way if Tyree didn't catch the ball with his helmet.

Mike

We also so easily forget how that pass got to Tyree in the first place. Eli avoided like four or five lineman to get that pass off. Some miracle ****.

Kaiser Toro
09-16-2012, 12:34 AM
I want a QB who can be clutch, and Schaub has shown that he can be.

Lady.Gaga.3000
09-23-2012, 06:42 PM
3:00 minutes left. Close out the game. This is where I hope Schaub is clutch. No turnovers and a first down is all we need.

Lady.Gaga.3000
09-23-2012, 06:46 PM
Clutch throw to Johnson. Tight window. Anymore to the right and that's a pick six. ICE

Playoffs
10-01-2012, 11:25 AM
Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein
RT @Espngreeny: Credit John Clayton: Texans have won last 8 gms started by Matt Schaub by combined 160 points.
8-0, average win by 20 points ..... clutch.

Mailman
10-01-2012, 04:58 PM
Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein

8-0, average win by 20 points ..... clutch.

Additionally, Schaub is now third overall in QB rating behind Ryan and Big Ben.

Suffice to say, that hand-wringing from some people over his recent contract extension might have been an overreaction to a team locking up its underrated quarterback.

Mailman
10-01-2012, 05:02 PM
We also so easily forget how that pass got to Tyree in the first place. Eli avoided like four or five lineman to get that pass off. Some miracle ****.

Or that pass right before that hit Asante Samuel smack in the hands. The Giants don't win without Samuel's monumental dropped INT. That twist of fate would have definitely changed the way Eli Manning is perceived by the fans and media.

ckhouston
10-02-2012, 07:05 AM
So clutch is now being up by 20 and winning the game? :lol:

The Pencil Neck
10-02-2012, 10:50 AM
So clutch is now being up by 20 and winning the game? :lol:

I prefer being up by 20 and choking the life out of my opponent to being down by 2 with less than a minute and marching down the field to get in position for a winning field goal.

One of my big issues with the "clutch" player is that to be "clutch", you have to have made a mistake at some point so that your team got behind. They asked John Elway about all his 4th quarter comebacks and his response was that he wished he'd never been down in the first place. And he said a lot of times, he was having to make up for mistakes he made in the first half of games.

So give me "winning" over "clutch". Or just re-define "clutch" to mean performing at a high level right from the get-go instead of trying to flip a switch and only be good at the end of the game.

thunderkyss
10-08-2012, 10:19 PM
Time to revisit??

Texanmike02
11-20-2012, 08:21 PM
/end discussion

Mike

ATXtexanfan
11-20-2012, 08:28 PM
ha nice find. not buying it vs henne and jax.

Texanmike02
11-20-2012, 08:40 PM
ha nice find. not buying it vs henne and jax.

He didn't do it vs henne. Against a defense that held our offense to 13 points over 3 quarters he put up 300 yards and 30 points in a quarter and a half. Clutch is how you perform under pressure. He is clutch. That performance was the stuff manning and Brady do. Oh and he led the game winning drive three times. His kicker missed one, his defense let the offense score the fg the second time and finally dre stepped up and ended it again. Mike

DocBar
11-20-2012, 08:44 PM
I think we should just get an adapter kit and make that clutch QB into an automatic. Just put Schaub in gear and let him go. No clutches needed. :kitten:

Yeah, I know I'm reaching on this one... :D

ATXtexanfan
11-20-2012, 08:45 PM
He didn't do it vs henne. Against a defense that held our offense to 13 points over 3 quarters he put up 300 yards and 30 points in a quarter and a half. Clutch is how you perform under pressure. He is clutch. That performance was the stuff manning and Brady do. Oh and he led the game winning drive three times. His kicker missed one, his defense let the offense score the fg the second time and finally dre stepped up and ended it again. Mike

did he throw a pick in the fourth qtr and ot? to be honest not sure, almost positive about ot pick but not about the other one

run-david-run
11-20-2012, 11:04 PM
did he throw a pick in the fourth qtr and ot? to be honest not sure, almost positive about ot pick but not about the other one

He threw a 4th quarter pick and responded with 16 consecutive completions and 2 TD drives.

He threw a pick in OT and responded with the game winning touchdown.

Seems pretty Elway-ish to me.

EllisUnit
11-20-2012, 11:30 PM
When you throw it as many times as he did you can expect some mistakes. Point is in the 4th with 4 minutes to go he led us down the field for a TD to tie it, and then with a minute to go he led us to the 35 yard line where Graham made his inital FG but Caldwell had a false start. So you take away the false start you take away the OT int. i would say Schaub was pretty clutch on sunday.

Wolf6151
11-21-2012, 03:02 AM
I'd have to see Schaub lead a few more 4th quarter come backs before I'd call him clutch but it sure was nice to see him do it once. We usually have a lead in the 4th and there's no need for him to carry a late comeback, hopefully we don't have the need for him to prove it again.

Grams
11-21-2012, 05:33 AM
I'd have to see Schaub lead a few more 4th quarter come backs before I'd call him clutch but it sure was nice to see him do it once. We usually have a lead in the 4th and there's no need for him to carry a late comeback, hopefully we don't have the need for him to prove it again.

He has done this multiple times.

Problem we had before was the defense would let the other team score after.

DexmanC
11-21-2012, 06:08 AM
Remember the "We want Sage" game against Miami back in '08? Schaub made tons
of clutch 4th down throws on the final drive, and scored the game winning touchdown
himself. Whoever saw Sage as a better QB option than Matt was a fool, and I said so
even back then.

Grams
11-21-2012, 06:14 AM
I ought to bookmark this post for those people referenced above who think that Schaub can't lead his team to comebacks:

1. 2007 against Miami. Brings team back from 16-7 deficit. Drives the team from its own 3 to a last-second FG in the greatest game Kris Brown ever had.

2. 2008 at Jacksonville. Leads the team to a tying FG in a drive that began with less than 2:00 left. Texans lose the OT cointoss and never see the ball again.

3. 2008 against Miami (the year Miami rode the Wildcat to the playoffs). The QB draw for the win after leading a 90-yard drive in the last two minutes, featuring a great 4th down catch by Dre.

4. 2008 at Green Bay. Texans down by 1 heading into the fourth quarter, Schaub leads them back to the win. Another game-winning drive that started inside the Texans' five.

5. 2009 at Tennessee. Overcomes a 21-7 deficit and a ridiculous peformance by Chris Johnson (this was the game where we forgot to cover him when he split wide) to beat a team that was coming off a 13-3 record.

6. 2009 at Arizona. Brought team back from 21-0 deficit. But he threw a pick-6 at the end to lose the game. Still, he put the team on his back.

7. 2009 at Indy. Overcame 13-0 deficit to take a 17-13 lead. After Indy went back up, Schaub orchestrated a beautiful drive to set up Brown to tie the game. But Brown's downward spiral began here as his kick went wide.

8. 2009 v. New England. Brought Texans back from 2 TD deficit to win the game in the fourth quarter. Last game of the season, and the Texans put themselves in position for the playoffs, but they didn't get the help they needed in the late games.

9. 2010 at Washington. Rallies team from 27-10 for a stirring comeback win.

10. 2010 v. Kansas City. Overcomes a 10 point 4th quarter deficit and tosses game-winning TD with :11 left.

11. 2010 at Jacksonville. Erases 14 point deficit at half and then, after they fell behind again, he brought them back to a tie. Until the Texans pitiful D couldn't stop a Hail Mary.

12. 2010 at NY Jets. Rallies Texans back from 17 down against the Jets at their peak under Rex Ryan. Only to have the defense surrender an 80-yard TD drive with less than a minute to go to Mark Sanchez.

13. 2010 v. Baltimore. Sort of the 2008 Cardinal game redux. Erases a 21 point deficit in a frenzied comeback only to be undone by a pick-6. Still, he played about as well as he's ever played in throwing the Texans back into the ballgame.

14. Yesterday.

Just off the top of my head . . .

From another thread.

JamesBill
11-21-2012, 08:14 AM
He has done this multiple times.

Problem we had before was the defense would let the other team score after.

Not the Ravens game.


Clutch is a BS term. It can't be measured or defined. If Schaub wasn't injury prone, his success and standing in the league would be unquestioned.

Schaub has 8 fourth quarter comebacks. I still think he is a rhythm passer with a weaker than average arm, but the passing routes Kubiak designs makes up for it on everything except deep balls. Schaub has gotten much better since he has been here, and is obviously comfortable running quick pace "everyone knows you are throwing it" scoring drives.

I would love to magically give him more arm strength and RGIII type speed, but he doesn't have that and never will. Meanwhile he is doing very well with what he does have.

2012Champs
11-21-2012, 08:40 AM
Not the Ravens game.


Clutch is a BS term. It can't be measured or defined. If Schaub wasn't injury prone, his success and standing in the league would be unquestioned.

Schaub has 8 fourth quarter comebacks. I still think he is a rhythm passer with a weaker than average arm, but the passing routes Kubiak designs makes up for it on everything except deep balls. Schaub has gotten much better since he has been here, and is obviously comfortable running quick pace "everyone knows you are throwing it" scoring drives.

I would love to magically give him more arm strength and RGIII type speed, but he doesn't have that and never will. Meanwhile he is doing very well with what he does have.




If you think Clutch is a BS term Id like to inform you that your use of the term "injury prone" is bs

ATXtexanfan
11-21-2012, 08:40 AM
I just can't call a guy clutch when none of this clutch was in the playoffs or against other top notch teams. Sorry just can't do it. He'll get his shot , till then not buying it

JamesBill
11-21-2012, 08:51 AM
If you think Clutch is a BS term Id like to inform you that your use of the term "injury prone" is bs

Yeah, I realize not too many people agree with me there. But I still stick with Injury Prone being defined as

having a tendency or inclination : being likely -----------> to be injured and thus missing time.

I made a thread on it.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86941\
I have no idea why people feel so strongly about the term, except it might have other connotations for them, but that isn't really my issue.

There isn't an unbiased metric for "clutchness" which is why I called it BS.

JamesBill
11-21-2012, 08:54 AM
In the last 20 years, I can't name a QB worse than Schaub, or not a freaking Hall of Famer, to win a Super Bowl except Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer. Both of those guys had an all time great defense, and were under a very different rule system.

MY worry about Schaub is, have the rules have changed so much that without an elite QB it might be almost impossible to win it all. Elite quarterbacks have become priceless. Really legit starters are priceless, but an elite quarterback these days can destroy any defense if he is hot. You can't hit him, his receivers, and pass interference is constantly called.

I guess the league did this for more excitement, and to increase comeback ability so people don't turn off their TVs knowing the game is over, but IMO it has backfired lessening the parity. Can a team win a Superbowl these days without a superstar quarterback, or a QB playing like a superstar? It is obviously extremely difficult, which makes a championship a realistic possibility for very few teams, moving the NFL closer to the realities of the NBA and away from building teams.

The fact is Schaub is the 6th best quarterback among the 8 division leaders in the NFL, which makes it highly likely every QB the Texans face in the playoffs is better.

thunderkyss
11-21-2012, 09:03 AM
Not the Ravens game.


Clutch is a BS term. It can't be measured or defined. If Schaub wasn't injury prone, his success and standing in the league would be unquestioned.

Whether we like it or not, the QB is associated with wins & losses way more than any other player. As long as Schaub is the leader of what was until recently a bunch of losers, no one is going to put the clutch label on Schaub.

Doesn't matter that the defense gave away twice as many wins as he's credited for. That's not going to change.

If we win the Super Bowl, Schaub will be called clutch.

Rey
11-21-2012, 09:11 AM
I'll base this off of 'feeling' and nothing more....

When we are on a crucial drive late in the game I 'feel' we have a good shot but I don't feel confident...

If Matt throws a game winning touchdown I wouldn't be shocked at all. If he throws a game losing INT I wouldn't be shocked at all.

I don't have supreme confidence that he'll get it done. I don't have supreme confidence that he won't.

thunderkyss
11-21-2012, 09:12 AM
I'll base this off of 'feeling' and nothing more....

When we are on a crucial drive late in the game I 'feel' we have a good shot but I don't feel confident...

If Matt throws a game winning touchdown I wouldn't be shocked at all. If he throws a game losing INT I wouldn't be shocked at all.

I don't have supreme confidence that he'll get it done. I don't have supreme confidence that he won't.

He's medi-clutch.

Sounds like Romo

JamesBill
11-21-2012, 09:19 AM
Whether we like it or not, the QB is associated with wins & losses way more than any other player. As long as Schaub is the leader of what was until recently a bunch of losers, no one is going to put the clutch label on Schaub.

Doesn't matter that the defense gave away twice as many wins as he's credited for. That's not going to change.

If we win the Super Bowl, Schaub will be called clutch.

I agree, although it may actually be much more valid these days. Look how scary the Broncos are now, and how bad the Colts were with a scrub.

I also agree views will be widely changed if he wins a superbowl. It might even make my comparison to previous superbowl winners less valid because we give massive credit to QBs who win superbowls. Kinda self fufilling prophecy, or chicken and the egg (?) whatever.


Your point about being "clutch" is wrong IMO, but that just shows how bad the term is. I doubt very many people have the same definition, so it seems pointless to argue over it.

Hervoyel
11-21-2012, 09:31 AM
Can someone point to a QB, any QB who is always clutch? Invariably will win the game on the final drive if need be. Always steps up when the pressure is on and never falls short of success?

Schaub can be clutch. I think "can be" is all you can ask for in this situation. Like Infantrycak said earlier in this thread all kinds of things can affect whether or not that game ends up being a win or a loss and most of them aren't directly related to what your QB is capable of. You want a guy who can do it and then you hope the rest of it works out in your favor.

thunderkyss
11-21-2012, 09:35 AM
Can someone point to a QB, any QB who is always clutch? Invariably will win the game on the final drive if need be. Always steps up when the pressure is on and never falls short of success?


Eh.... several QBs have the reputation for being clutch, that's as good as it gets. Schaub does not have that reputation.

SAMURAITEXAN
11-21-2012, 09:40 AM
Clutch or no clutch or automatic or manual, we already have a winning season with best record in the NFL along with Atlanta which tells me we are playing damn good football so far.

I am looking forward to Texans winning Lombardi this year.

When the Texans achieve this, media will stop questioning about if Schaub is clutch or not and they will start talking about how Schaub is an elite QB. It usually comes down to winning Lombardi trophy or at least participate in SB. You see, people(media and some fans here) are not convinced until Schaub takes us to promise land.

Personally, I am happy with how Schaub been playing this year.

Go Texans!!!

JamesBill
11-21-2012, 09:49 AM
Can someone point to a QB, any QB who is always clutch? Invariably will win the game on the final drive if need be. Always steps up when the pressure is on and never falls short of success?


Most people will go with Eli. His 4th quarter splits are crazy and he has made some seriously awesome, memorable plays. Two 4th quarter comebacks in the superbowl doesn't hurt either.

thunderkyss
11-21-2012, 10:02 AM
Most people will go with Eli. His 4th quarter splits are crazy and he has made some seriously awesome, memorable plays. Two 4th quarter comebacks in the superbowl doesn't hurt either.

I'm not his biggest fan. But I respect that guy for being able to take a beating & keep on playing.

You watch some QBs & it's easily predictable. Sack..... next play will be a run. David Carr was that way. If he took a sack, the next play is 98.7986% the next play was going to be a run.

& for most QBs, it's highly likely, especially after a big sack.

Watch Eli. If he gets sacked, even one where he is planted & takes several minutes to get up.

The next play is most likely a 50 yard bomb.

2012Champs
11-21-2012, 10:03 AM
Most people will go with Eli. His 4th quarter splits are crazy and he has made some seriously awesome, memorable plays. Two 4th quarter comebacks in the superbowl doesn't hurt either.



Eli's 2011 is where he was really good in the 4th and his super bowls. If you look at the other years its not as crazy as a lot would make it out to be

Say Watt
11-21-2012, 10:11 AM
Yes, Matt Schaub is a clutch QB. As Herv said, no one is ALWAYS clutch, but Matt has led us on game winning drives numerous times in his career. That to me is clutch. I feel he will definitely deserve the label when he wins a Super Bowl.

2012Champs
11-21-2012, 10:18 AM
Yes, Matt Schaub is a clutch QB. As Herv said, no one is ALWAYS clutch, but Matt has led us on game winning drives numerous times in his career. That to me is clutch. I feel he will definitely deserve the label when he wins a Super Bowl.



Also of note if our D wasnt total crap Id wager that Schaub would have a handful more game winning drives however this is all pissing in the wind at the moment

The Pencil Neck
11-21-2012, 10:21 AM
Most people will go with Eli. His 4th quarter splits are crazy and he has made some seriously awesome, memorable plays. Two 4th quarter comebacks in the superbowl doesn't hurt either.

He's also cost his team games in the 4th quarter. He's got 3 game winning drives and 3 4th quarter comebacks this year. But he's also lost 4 games. And in 3 of those 4 games, the Giants had a lead in the 4th quarter and gave it up.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, "clutch" QBs have to be losing until the 4th quarter. They asked Elway about all his 4th quarter comebacks once and he said that's something he'd prefer not to have to do because it means that they weren't playing good at the beginning of the game.

I prefer a QB who gets out fast, grabs the lead, and then doesn't give it up. That's not the definition of clutch but that's what I want in a QB. I want a ruthless QB who doesn't give the other team a chance, a QB who doesn't make mistakes, and who takes advantage of the other team's mistakes.

I think Schaub is developing into that kind of QB.

klockWork
11-21-2012, 10:26 AM
Shaub elite? Clutch? Are u kidding?
Eli Manning have 2 SB MVP countless comeback wins. AND people til this day are still questioning if this guy is elite(Ask Phil Simms).
I'm a diehard Texans fan like many here, but please somebody, kill this thread before my a-hole brother from Wisconsin sees it and erupt with laughter.

htownfan32
11-21-2012, 10:49 AM
I dunno, Eli hasn't looked too clutch this year. :kitten:

Hervoyel
11-21-2012, 11:32 AM
Shaub elite? Clutch? Are u kidding?
Eli Manning have 2 SB MVP countless comeback wins. AND people til this day are still questioning if this guy is elite(Ask Phil Simms).
I'm a diehard Texans fan like many here, but please somebody, kill this thread before my a-hole brother from Wisconsin sees it and erupt with laughter.


Stupid people still question whether he's elite. Nobody else does. "Elite" is a term that to me sounds like it should be just one or two guys but in reality there's no place in the NFL for the term because football isn't a sport where one guys talent takes over an entire game. Not ever. Not when Jerry Rice was playing with Joe Montana, not when Lynn Swann was catching passes. Never. I can put Tom Brady on the 1983 Oilers and he's a piece of **** from the late rounds. Period. I can do the same thing with any player you ask. Nobody is leading the Raiders to a Super Bowl over the last decade.

There aren't Elite QB's. There are good QB's and bad QB's and that's it. You can do it or you can't and how well you can do it all depends on all those variables again. Who's catching your passes? Who's protecting you? Who created the scheme you're playing in and who did your GM draft over the last ten years? It goes on and on but I don't believe for a second that Peyton Manning could be taking the Chiefs to the playoffs this year and neither does Peyton Manning. That's why Romeo Crennel's team wasn't on Peyton's short list.

More than what you accomplish though is how you develop. A good QB on a bad team or going through an OC revolving door where the system changes every year will become bad. Another good QB playing in a consistent environment will become great. "Elite" is a good QB in an optimal situation who has been able to hone his skills and reach a level of confidence that others just don't have. OK, I've talked myself back around into believing that there are Elite QB's but they're not the sole product of some genetic miracle. They're made not born.

thunderkyss
11-21-2012, 11:36 AM
Stupid people still question whether he's elite.

Good post. However, I think elite means playing at a high level for a period of time. Schaub's got some pretty good stats, he's on the all-time list for a few different criteria, so the level of play is there.

Unfortunately, he's a QB & wins count for him, losses count against him. He's putting together a pretty good resume now & I'm sure he'll be on the short list of elite QBs in this league.

Rey
11-21-2012, 12:44 PM
Stupid people still question whether he's elite. Nobody else does. "Elite" is a term that to me sounds like it should be just one or two guys but in reality there's no place in the NFL for the term because football isn't a sport where one guys talent takes over an entire game. Not ever. Not when Jerry Rice was playing with Joe Montana, not when Lynn Swann was catching passes. Never. I can put Tom Brady on the 1983 Oilers and he's a piece of **** from the late rounds. Period. I can do the same thing with any player you ask. Nobody is leading the Raiders to a Super Bowl over the last decade.

There aren't Elite QB's.


Completely disagree.

Peyton Manning is a prime example. Colts aren't going 2-14 with Peyton Manning as their QB.

There are elite QB's in the NFL and while they may not win games single handed, if they are lost their teams expectations and ceiling dramatically drop.

I believe there are elite players at most every position, but the weight shifts heavily towards the QB because of their importance.

I think one of the things that leads to a QB being called elite are mostly due to having good outings in big games/moments (mainly the superbowl) or just being prolific in every aspect (Peyton Manning pre SB ring).

If Schaub has good games through the play-offs and has a good game and maybe some clutch throws in a superbowl then he will move up into the next tier of QB which would be Eli, Big Ben. Will probably never reach the Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers level but he can certainly reach Eli status.

EllisUnit
11-21-2012, 01:26 PM
In the last 20 years, I can't name a QB worse than Schaub, or not a freaking Hall of Famer, to win a Super Bowl except Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer. Both of those guys had an all time great defense, and were under a very different rule system.

MY worry about Schaub is, have the rules have changed so much that without an elite QB it might be almost impossible to win it all. Elite quarterbacks have become priceless. Really legit starters are priceless, but an elite quarterback these days can destroy any defense if he is hot. You can't hit him, his receivers, and pass interference is constantly called.

I guess the league did this for more excitement, and to increase comeback ability so people don't turn off their TVs knowing the game is over, but IMO it has backfired lessening the parity. Can a team win a Superbowl these days without a superstar quarterback, or a QB playing like a superstar? It is obviously extremely difficult, which makes a championship a realistic possibility for very few teams, moving the NFL closer to the realities of the NBA and away from building teams.

The fact is Schaub is the 6th best quarterback among the 8 division leaders in the NFL, which makes it highly likely every QB the Texans face in the playoffs is better.

hmmm well i will counter that

heres an example of the rankings of defense who helped their teams win the super bowl

2008 steelers - 1st
2005 steelers - 3rd
2004 patriots - 2nd
2003 patriots - 1st
2002 bucs - 1st
2001 patriots - 1st
2000 rams - 1st
1998 broncos - 8th
1997 brocos - 6th
1996 packers - 1st
1995 cowboys - 3rd
1994 49ers - 6th
1993 cowboys - 2nd
1992 cowboys - 5th
1991 redskins - 2nd
1990 giants - 1st
1989 49ers - 3rd
1988 49ers - 8th

List goes on and on my point is while the starting QBs may have been "Elite" the defenses were no slouch. So cant say they won the SB "Just" because of their QB. Just saying.

Hervoyel
11-21-2012, 01:44 PM
Completely disagree.

Peyton Manning is a prime example. Colts aren't going 2-14 with Peyton Manning as their QB.

There are elite QB's in the NFL and while they may not win games single handed, if they are lost their teams expectations and ceiling dramatically drop.

I believe there are elite players at most every position, but the weight shifts heavily towards the QB because of their importance.

I think one of the things that leads to a QB being called elite are mostly due to having good outings in big games/moments (mainly the superbowl) or just being prolific in every aspect (Peyton Manning pre SB ring).

If Schaub has good games through the play-offs and has a good game and maybe some clutch throws in a superbowl then he will move up into the next tier of QB which would be Eli, Big Ben. Will probably never reach the Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers level but he can certainly reach Eli status.

I think that in Peyton's situation the Colts were built in such a way that no provision was made for his absence.

I also did talk myself into a circle and eventually did concede that there are elite QB's. I just feel like an elite QB is nothing but a good QB in a great situation given every opportunity to succeed and any number of factors can move that along or derail it.

JamesBill
11-21-2012, 02:44 PM
hmmm well i will counter that

heres an example of the rankings of defense who helped their teams win the super bowl

List goes on and on my point is while the starting QBs may have been "Elite" the defenses were no slouch. So cant say they won the SB "Just" because of their QB. Just saying.

I'm not sure what you are countering exactly but will further the discussion.

I said 20 years so I wouldn't have any arguments about the quality of QB, and I said the two non-HOF QBs had "All Time Great" defenses. Looking at your expanded list, 3 defenses should stick out to everyone, 1990 Giants, 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens. Those are All Time Great defenses, anyone picking the 3 best out of your list would choose those. Coincidentally (or not), people picking the 3 WORST QB's would also choose those three teams. Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer.

The thing to also remember is, even in 2000-2002 WRs were scared to go across the middle but now they do it freely knowing any big hit will be a 15 yard penalty and if the ball gets knocked loose it is much more likely to be called incomplete than a fumble. Basically it is now even harder to win without incredible play from your QB.

EllisUnit
11-21-2012, 02:58 PM
I'm not sure what you are countering exactly but will further the discussion.

I said 20 years so I wouldn't have any arguments about the quality of QB, and I said the two non-HOF QBs had "All Time Great" defenses. Looking at your expanded list, 3 defenses should stick out to everyone, 1990 Giants, 2002 Bucs and 2000 Ravens. Those are All Time Great defenses, anyone picking the 3 best out of your list would choose those. Coincidentally (or not), people picking the 3 WORST QB's would also choose those three teams. Jeff Hostetler, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer.

The thing to also remember is, even in 2000-2002 WRs were scared to go across the middle but now they do it freely knowing any big hit will be a 15 yard penalty and if the ball gets knocked loose it is much more likely to be called incomplete than a fumble. Basically it is now even harder to win without incredible play from your QB.

You had said last 20 years, so was just following your lead. My point is that although the QBs may be elite what they all seem to have in common for the most part is top 10 defenses. A QB cant win or even get to a SB all by himself.

JamesBill
11-21-2012, 03:02 PM
[/U][/B]

You had said last 20 years, so was just following your lead. My point is that although the QBs may be elite what they all seem to have in common for the most part is top 10 defenses. A QB cant win or even get to a SB all by himself.
20 years ago is 1992, not 1988 right? lol

No argument it still takes a team, my point was now that the rules have changed so much, it might be almost impossible to win without outstanding quarterback play. Killing parity and the hopes of teams with strengths other than at the QB position.

The point of the last paragraph you underlined, just serves to question whether it is possible even with a Juggernaut defense. I don't think we are disagreeing about much here if at all.

thunderkyss
11-21-2012, 04:10 PM
Basically it is now even harder to win without incredible play from your QB.

In your opinion, if we win the 2012/2013 Super Bowl would that change the way people see Matt Schaub, or our defense?

In other words, will they say we have a HOF QB, or an all time great defense?

guichows6
11-21-2012, 04:17 PM
Schaub seems like he goes into elite mode when given the reigns and starts working that nohuddle. .I think they should pick up the pace more often.

EllisUnit
11-21-2012, 04:24 PM
Schaub seems like he goes into elite mode when given the reigns and starts working that nohuddle. .I think they should pick up the pace more often.

i agree with this 100% he looks like a brady, Rogers type player when operating the no huddle hurry up offense.

JamesBill
11-21-2012, 04:32 PM
In your opinion, if we win the 2012/2013 Super Bowl would that change the way people see Matt Schaub, or our defense?

In other words, will they say we have a HOF QB, or an all time great defense?

Wow, hard question. ESPN always pushes a narrative, so I agree one will get crowned "The Reason" we won. It will depend mostly on how the games go in the playoffs. If they go 1985 bears and allow only 10 points for 3 games, it will obviously be defense. If Schaub wins a shootout or two, they will push that.

If I had to choose right now, knowing nothing else, I will say they will talk more about our defense if it holds together at all. Wade Phillips riding in to save the day, a guy they already love, with a career mostly defined. Then they can still ask Schaub if he is "elite" another 100 times.

thunderkyss
11-21-2012, 04:44 PM
Schaub seems like he goes into elite mode when given the reigns and starts working that nohuddle. .I think they should pick up the pace more often.

He's definitely a rhythm passer.

thunderkyss
11-21-2012, 04:46 PM
Wow, hard question. ESPN always pushes a narrative, so I agree one will get crowned "The Reason" we won. It will depend mostly on how the games go in the playoffs. If they go 1985 bears and allow only 10 points for 3 games, it will obviously be defense. If Schaub wins a shootout or two, they will push that.

If I had to choose right now, knowing nothing else, I will say they will talk more about our defense if it holds together at all. Wade Phillips riding in to save the day, a guy they already love, with a career mostly defined. Then they can still ask Schaub if he is "elite" another 100 times.

What if we win every game by 17 points? The defense average giving up 13 points & the offense averages 27-28 points? Chances are we'll ride Arian Foster to those 38 points though..... so yeah, Schaub will get lost in the media.

Norg
11-21-2012, 05:57 PM
Schaub does not beleive in clutch he beleives in playing COnsistent for 4 qtrs so he does not have to be clutch :P


AND HES NOT A NO HUDDLE HURRY UP Offensive yeah he can go fast sugar huddle and call plays fast but like someone says hes a rhytham passer haslong has hes clea he know were to go with the ball he can read D"s like a MOFO

Kaiser Toro
11-21-2012, 05:59 PM
I love authentic Texans Talk gibberish

drs23
11-21-2012, 06:30 PM
Schaub seems like he goes into elite mode when given the reigns and starts working that nohuddle. .I think they should pick up the pace more often.

i agree with this 100% he looks like a brady, Rogers type player when operating the no huddle hurry up offense.

You guys beat me to it. I know why we haven't run 5 wide to this point but when they lined up like that I yelled at my wife to "Watch this, the offense is gonna go nuts!" Guess what. It did. Matt Schaub can run the no huddle, hurry up, 5 wide to perfection. He's done it many times. We used to see it all the time before we were a complete team. Like Kubes said after the game he'd been saying all the time "If we need Matt to load up and throw it 50 times, we can." And they did. And they won, just like Kubiak said they could.

I know they don't need to often but I sure like that no huddle, 5 wide game. It kinda gives me a chub, kinda. :D

ObsiWan
11-21-2012, 08:08 PM
I love authentic Texans Talk gibberish

Toro... ya just gotta use the visual when making classic movie references...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9y0LtkvsydI/TkluiIOUiJI/AAAAAAAAIiU/MS0eCj32EkE/s1600/blazingsaddles.jpg

didn't think Norg was this old...
:D

powda
11-21-2012, 10:24 PM
Schaub is a rhythm passer and always has been. Ive said it for years. Once hes in synch hes almost as good as anyone (minus the usual suspects ofcourse.) I actually feel like our run / pass ratio henders him as much as a solid run game helps him. He started badly last week and as the game went on and he had to pass more and more he got better. I've seen that plenty over the years. He's like a running back who gets better with more carries.

When he starts a game and hes not sharp i'd like to see him passing on the sidelines while our defense is on the field. It sometimes seems to take him longer to warm up then the time alloted.

klockWork
11-22-2012, 12:27 AM
I agree with you for the most part. But I don't think it's about his arm not being warm enough. I think when he is throwing on consecutive plays the action down the field slows down for him. He's able to read defense faster after the snap.

Take for example:

I love playing basketball. Everytime I go to the park and join into a pickup game with people that are already playing, the first 5 minutes on the court is where I always struggle. And I'm not talking about shooting jumpshots. I'm talking about things like rebounding, pick & roll, defense. I'm always a second behind in every basketball plays. Everythings blurry. But after that 5 minute things slow down for me. Next thing I know I'm snatching rebound off the board, blocking shots, behind-the-back-pass between a defender's leg.

Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a little on my game. But the point is Shaub vision of the game becomes more coherent and lucid when he is given a consistence chance of throwing the ball.

Every time a QB drops back to throw the ball his adrenaline is increase by 200% as oppose to handing it off - studies by ESPN's Sport & Science.

And the benefit of adrenaline in our bodies is quoted as by Men's Health Fitness:
"Adrenaline is produced by adrenal glands in our body. When released, it stimulates a wide array of bodily functions. From the heart rate to blood vessels, it effectively counters high-stress and physical situations. This enables us to process information, while utilizing actions at a rapid rate. These are referred to as adrenaline rushes, which increase physical performance in unexpected instances. The process also sends more oxygen to the lungs. This is essential when responding to emergencies and natural disasters. The body is then able to perform tasks in a timely manner."

As much as I like Foster and our running game, I think a success of a rushing game can hinder a QB like Matt Schaub who needs a consistence dose of adrenaline to perform at a high level.

We should only run to keep the defense honest and to setup play-action and not to just play the over-rated stats "time of possession game."
Isn't this sport about outscoring your opponent? If Schaub has the hot hand and our running game is anemic and we're ahead, Kubiak should give Schaub the keys to take over the game.

powda
11-22-2012, 12:44 AM
I agree with you for the most part. But I don't think it's about his arm not being warm enough. I think when he is throwing on consecutive plays the action down the field slows down for him. He's able to read defense faster after the snap.

Take for example:

I love playing basketball. Everytime I go to the park and join into a pickup game with people that are already playing, the first 5 minutes on the court is where I always struggle. And I'm not talking about shooting jumpshots. I'm talking about things like rebounding, pick & roll, defense. I'm always a second behind in every basketball plays. Everythings blurry. But after that 5 minute things slow down for me. Next thing I know I'm snatching rebound off the board, blocking shots, behind-the-back-pass between a defender's leg.

Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating a little on my game. But the point is Shaub vision of the game becomes more coherent and lucid when he is given a consistence chance of throwing the ball.

Every time a QB drops back to throw the ball his adrenaline is increase by 200% as oppose to handing it off - studies by ESPN's Sport & Science.

And the benefit of adrenaline in our bodies is quoted as by Men's Health Fitness:
"Adrenaline is produced by adrenal glands in our body. When released, it stimulates a wide array of bodily functions. From the heart rate to blood vessels, it effectively counters high-stress and physical situations. This enables us to process information, while utilizing actions at a rapid rate. These are referred to as adrenaline rushes, which increase physical performance in unexpected instances. The process also sends more oxygen to the lungs. This is essential when responding to emergencies and natural disasters. The body is then able to perform tasks in a timely manner."

As much as I like Foster and our running game, I think a success of a rushing game can hinder a QB like Matt Schaub who needs a consistence dose of adrenaline to perform at a high level.

We should only run to keep the defense honest and to setup play-action and not to just play the over-rated stats "time of possession game."
Isn't this sport about outscoring your opponent? If Schaub has the hot hand and our running game is anemic and we're ahead, Kubiak should give Schaub the keys to take over the game.

Some of what im referring to is exactly what youve referenced. Its not merely the mechanics of throwing the ball down field. If he's throwing 2-3 passes every 5-6 minutes its going to take him longer to get in a "zone" if he's off that day. Whens hes not seeing coverages or slow to read the defense as the play unfolds he can compensate by improving his mechanics and accuracy on the sideline. If the qb coach is showing him defensive schemes in printed pictures thats fine...but if schaub isnt sharp passing I want to see him throwing on the sidelines between possessions.

ATXtexanfan
11-22-2012, 03:29 PM
Well?

Rey
11-22-2012, 03:31 PM
Like I said earlier. Not confident he'll do it, not confident he won't.

ATXtexanfan
11-22-2012, 03:42 PM
Well he's thrown away his mulligens in the regular season

76Texan
11-22-2012, 03:42 PM
LOL . Hey Graham missed a FG and we came back again.

thunderkyss
11-22-2012, 03:44 PM
I'm done with this thread. .... wishing for the best, but I'm done debating about this guy.

Hervoyel
11-22-2012, 04:05 PM
This week Matt Schaub isn't particularly clutch. He's mostly tired.

But he still had enough clutch in him to get us in field goal range at the end.

CloakNNNdagger
11-22-2012, 04:16 PM
This week Matt Schaub isn't particularly clutch. He's mostly tired.

But he still had enough clutch in him to get us in field goal range at the end.

Guess that's the explanation for Graham too.:chef:

ATXtexanfan
11-22-2012, 04:54 PM
Another clutch performance vs a below .500 team. Playoffs will be tough

thunderkyss
11-22-2012, 04:59 PM
Another clutch performance vs a below .500 team. Playoffs will be tough

You know, there were times when we were .500 or worse & we weren't a bad team. I know you are what your record says you are, but you can have a top 5 offense & be .500 (like we were) or a top 10 defense & be .500

Young teams, like we were 2 years ago, 3 years ago. Just didn't have enough gas to finish.

They're below .500, but that's not a bad team.

ATXtexanfan
11-22-2012, 05:06 PM
You know, there were times when we were .500 or worse & we weren't a bad team. I know you are what your record says you are, but you can have a top 5 offense & be .500 (like we were) or a top 10 defense & be .500

Young teams, like we were 2 years ago, 3 years ago. Just didn't have enough gas to finish.

They're below .500, but that's not a bad team.

No their a bad team that finds a way to lose and we have to thank them for not closing vs us despite the help by the refs. Two straight ot games with a pick by schaub means his luck is running out

76Texan
11-22-2012, 05:19 PM
No their a bad team that finds a way to lose and we have to thank them for not closing vs us despite the help by the refs. Two straight ot games with a pick by schaub means his luck is running out

Trust me, Andrew Luck is a guy that has a lot of luck so far this season.
He could have seen 20-30 INTs by now without lotsa luck.
I watch every game he played.

Be happy! :)

thunderkyss
11-22-2012, 05:37 PM
No their a bad team that finds a way to lose and we have to thank them for not closing vs us despite the help by the refs. Two straight ot games with a pick by schaub means his luck is running out

Who needs luck when you've got Kubiak?

76Texan
11-22-2012, 05:41 PM
Schaub is not clutch. He just wins games.

thunderkyss
11-22-2012, 05:44 PM
No their a bad team that finds a way to lose and we have to thank them for not closing vs us despite the help by the refs. Two straight ot games with a pick by schaub means his luck is running out

They find ways to lose. We find ways to win. They suck because they are 4-7, what does that make us at 10-1?

foo82
11-23-2012, 10:54 AM
I don't think schaub is clutch. Clutch is getting flushed out of pocket with pressure and putting it into the receivers hands. Schaub just throws it away. schaub needs rhythm, when a play is broken, he rarely extends it.

Mr teX
11-23-2012, 11:04 AM
Clutch is making plays when you absolutely have to have it..... & Schaub has done that the last 2 weeks....with tons of help from Dre.

So yeah as of now, he's clutch.

infantrycak
11-23-2012, 11:16 AM
Clutch is making plays when you absolutely have to have it..... & Schaub has done that the last 2 weeks....with tons of help from Dre.

So yeah as of now, he's clutch.

Much better definition than the silliness above your post about being flushed from the pocket.

ckhouston
11-24-2012, 06:48 PM
Clutch is making plays when you absolutely have to have it..... & Schaub has done that the last 2 weeks....with tons of help from Dre.

So yeah as of now, he's clutch.

Schaub has also put us in those situations with his mistakes.

I am glad Matt has come through in the last two games in the final minutes, but during both games he has looked mediocre for the majority of the game.

Trying to emulate Tebow maybe? :doot:

ObsiWan
11-24-2012, 07:16 PM
I don't think schaub is clutch. Clutch is getting flushed out of pocket with pressure and putting it into the receivers hands. Schaub just throws it away. schaub needs rhythm, when a play is broken, he rarely extends it.

Ask Jay Cutler or Michael Vick how that running out of the pocket is working for them.

I'd just as soon Schaub throw it away than run out of the pocket and get his bell rung, thank you.

thunderkyss
11-24-2012, 07:29 PM
Schaub has also put us in those situations with his mistakes.

I am glad Matt has come through in the last two games in the final minutes, but during both games he has looked mediocre for the majority of the game.

Trying to emulate Tebow maybe? :doot:

I'm trying to lay off Matt as much as possible. I'm just trying to enjoy the season.

But, you bring up a good point. If he was clutch, why didn't we win in regulation?

Why did we put a kicker on the field to win it in OT instead of converting a third down & scoring a TD?

If you believe Matt is clutch & the answers to those questions lie somewhere else.... i.e. the head coach, then why do the same people defend the head coach?

If Schaub is clutch, he doesn't check out of the called play to a run play. He keeps the ball in his hands when the game is on the line. If we everybody is covered & we can't make the play, he throws it away & we're no worse off than we were with that draw play that never works. Not only does it never work, nothing positive ever comes out of it.

This is not an insult to Matt Schaub. He's got his pluses, this just isn't one of them.

It's great, that you don't have to force anything when you have a defense like we've got, or when you've got a running back like we've got.

But when you've got arguably the best WR in the game (those same people argue he hasn't lost a step), third & 17, a clutch QB wants the ball in his hands when the game is on the line.

Allstar
11-24-2012, 07:30 PM
Really looking forward to seeing Schaubie in his first postseason game. Wouldn't it be awesome if he pulls an Eli and just transforms into Montana in the playoffs? :)

Allstar
11-24-2012, 07:32 PM
I'm trying to lay off Matt as much as possible. I'm just trying to enjoy the season.

But, you bring up a good point. If he was clutch, why didn't we win in regulation?

Why did we put a kicker on the field to win it in OT instead of converting a third down & scoring a TD?

If you believe Matt is clutch & the answers to those questions lie somewhere else.... i.e. the head coach, then why do the same people defend the head coach?

If Schaub is clutch, he doesn't check out of the called play to a run play. He keeps the ball in his hands when the game is on the line. If we everybody is covered & we can't make the play, he throws it away & we're no worse off than we were with that draw play that never works. Not only does it never work, nothing positive ever comes out of it.

This is not an insult to Matt Schaub. He's got his pluses, this just isn't one of them.

It's great, that you don't have to force anything when you have a defense like we've got, or when you've got a running back like we've got.

But when you've got arguably the best WR in the game (those same people argue he hasn't lost a step), third & 17, a clutch QB wants the ball in his hands.
Don't think it's on Schaub. Kubiak has a bible that Schaub follows, and he is programmed to do what Kubes tells him to do.

Thorn
11-24-2012, 07:40 PM
Schaub is a damn good QB for our system. He's got a way better than average arm (not elite, mind you), understands the playbook, and does what Kubiak tells him to. We're 10-1 because in the games where the defense laid an egg, Schaub took the offense down the field and scored the necessary points.

So, yeah, I'll go with clutch for the Schaubmiester.

How soon we forget all those 4th qtr TDs he got us a few years ago when our defense couldn't stop a troop of girl scouts.

thunderkyss
11-24-2012, 07:45 PM
Don't think it's on Schaub. Kubiak has a bible that Schaub follows, and he is programmed to do what Kubes tells him to do.

In this case, Kubiak stated he called a play that would have gone to James Casey (probably a screen), Matt didn't like it so he checked down to said run that never works.

Kubiak is totally out of the decision making process at that time.

thunderkyss
11-24-2012, 07:49 PM
Schaub is a damn good QB for our system. He's got a way better than average arm (not elite, mind you), understands the playbook, and does what Kubiak tells him to. We're 10-1 because in the games where the defense laid an egg, Schaub took the offense down the field and scored the necessary points.


Completely agree with this. I have absolute faith that Schaub can win us multiple Super Bowls. But in my mind, he gets us to an early lead that we never lose.

If we have to come from behind, I still think we've got a chance. But going against a clutch QB like Brady or Manning, we're better off getting the lead early & grinding out the clock.

Thorn
11-24-2012, 07:53 PM
Completely agree with this. I have absolute faith that Schaub can win us multiple Super Bowls. But in my mind, he gets us to an early lead that we never lose.

If we have to come from behind, I still think we've got a chance. But going against a clutch QB like Brady or Manning, we're better off getting the lead early & grinding out the clock.

Our offense is good, but if the defense can't show up when we play Manning or Brady in the playoffs, it won't be pretty. That is unless their defense doesn't show up.

Any given Sunday. LOL. But yeah, Schaub is NOT elite, but he's still damn good. IF the defense shows up, I like our chances against any team out there. Including a Packer rematch in Feburary.

infantrycak
11-24-2012, 07:54 PM
In this case, Kubiak stated he called a play that would have gone to James Casey (probably a screen), Matt didn't like it so he checked down to said run that never works.

Kubiak is totally out of the decision making process at that time.

First off Kubiak said it was the exact same play to James Casey which was completed on the next possession. It was not a screen.

Second Kubiak is totally in the decision making. Schaub doesn't just walk to the line and see if he has a tingling in his toes about the D. Kubiak gives him specific reads on play calls to look for in the D. If they don't get the defensive keys the play is called for Schaub is to audible out of the play, once again to predefined options.

JamesBill
11-24-2012, 07:59 PM
Our offense is good, but if the defense can't show up when we play Manning or Brady in the playoffs, it won't be pretty. That is unless their defense doesn't show up.

Any given Sunday. LOL. But yeah, Schaub is NOT elite, but he's still damn good. IF the defense shows up, I like our chances against any team out there. Including a Packer rematch in Feburary.

We always seem to catch teams at the wrong time. Manning just threw a ton of picks to Atlanta and lost. Packers blew a huge lead and lost to Indy, Stafford was basically playing for the playoffs.

Plus our running game did the defense no favors against such a good QB. You have to keep those guys off the field.

Allstar
11-24-2012, 08:18 PM
In this case, Kubiak stated he called a play that would have gone to James Casey (probably a screen), Matt didn't like it so he checked down to said run that never works.

Kubiak is totally out of the decision making process at that time.

What I'm saying is that Kubiak has programmed Schaub what to do in any situation. If a defense looks a certain way, you audible to this play. That's Kubiak, Mr Conservative, through Schaub.

Allstar
11-24-2012, 08:19 PM
First off Kubiak said it was the exact same play to James Casey which was completed on the next possession. It was not a screen.

Second Kubiak is totally in the decision making. Schaub doesn't just walk to the line and see if he has a tingling in his toes about the D. Kubiak gives him specific reads on play calls to look for in the D. If they don't get the defensive keys the play is called for Schaub is to audible out of the play, once again to predefined options.

Thanks, your words are better than mine.

ckhouston
11-24-2012, 09:22 PM
Don't think it's on Schaub. Kubiak has a bible that Schaub follows, and he is programmed to do what Kubes tells him to do.

That's BS because Matt has to read the situation and make a decision. Too many times he decides to throw into double or triple coverage, or over/under throws the route, or just flat out throws to the other team.

Coaches call plays, players execute. Execution isn't something Matt does on a consistent basis on the field, but may be part of his vocabulary if he blows it in the playoffs.

Texans fans can get a little rowdy ...

Allstar
11-24-2012, 10:14 PM
That's BS because Matt has to read the situation and make a decision. Too many times he decides to throw into double or triple coverage, or over/under throws the route, or just flat out throws to the other team.

Coaches call plays, players execute. Execution isn't something Matt does on a consistent basis on the field, but may be part of his vocabulary if he blows it in the playoffs.

Texans fans can get a little rowdy ...

Read what I bolded, Mr Rowdy, and tell me that isn't Kubiak's instruction.

GP
11-25-2012, 04:07 PM
In this case, Kubiak stated he called a play that would have gone to James Casey (probably a screen), Matt didn't like it so he checked down to said run that never works.

Kubiak is totally out of the decision making process at that time.

My gripe about all this is that every team knows when Schaun audibles it's to a RUN play.

Have we ever seen him change a pass play to another pass play, such as realigning the entire formation? I don't recall it, but maybe we have.

Kubiak had things so methodical that it's become apparent to defenses what they can expect from our offense. Sure, "Well the D still gotta stop it...and many times they don't," but I want to see more dynamic audibles...never will though, IMO.

BullBlitz
11-25-2012, 04:15 PM
Schaub has never been in a critical, must-execute, playoff series and had the fate of the game squarely put on his shoulders. Until he does, and he successfully executes, then I will not view him as a clutch QB.

He's won some regular season games, but none that was a singular must-win to put us in the playoffs. I don't believe that I've ever seen him under real pressure.

The Medic01
11-25-2012, 04:28 PM
Schaub has never been in a critical, must-execute, playoff series and had the fate of the game squarely put on his shoulders. Until he does, and he successfully executes, then I will not view him as a clutch QB.

He's won some regular season games, but none that was a singular must-win to put us in the playoffs. I don't believe that I've ever seen him under real pressure.

Well the 2009 Pats game was critical and he performed well.

Texecutioner
11-25-2012, 05:20 PM
Schaub proved several years ago that he "could be clutch." Schaub can't always be expected to be clutch though. Either way I'm happy to have him though and he continually shows that he is a very good QB in this league.

infantrycak
11-25-2012, 05:37 PM
My gripe about all this is that every team knows when Schaun audibles it's to a RUN play.

You have no clue what they have audibled from and to so your assertion is ridiculous.

Have we ever seen him change a pass play to another pass play, such as realigning the entire formation? I don't recall it, but maybe we have.

Our O is designed to run multiple run and pass plays out of the same formation so you don't need to see the "entire formation" change (as if that happens much with any team). You also have no idea if the motion you see from the backs and receivers is a result of an audible on any given play.

TEXANRED
11-25-2012, 06:30 PM
Before this season I would have said Hell no bring in Yates. But what I have seen out of him this season is a man who is willing the W's and putting the team on his back. Throwing for 527 yards to win in OT -vs- JVille and then turn around on a short week to do it again on 4 days rest against Detroit.

thunderkyss
11-25-2012, 06:37 PM
Our O is designed to run multiple run and pass plays out of the same formation so you don't need to see the "entire formation" change (as if that happens much with any team). You also have no idea if the motion you see from the backs and receivers is a result of an audible on any given play.

I think people hear that we don't audible & they think Schaub has no control of the offense which couldn't be further from the truth. I think he has even more control than a traditional audible system would give him. But you can't "see" it like you could when Peyton is dancing & gyrating at the LOS.

Texan_Bill
11-25-2012, 06:40 PM
You have no clue what they have audibled from and to so your assertion is ridiculous.


Wait... What???? People have no idea what they audible to, or what the original call was????

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard!

Signed,

Being facetious!

sixfour
12-10-2012, 10:54 PM
Schaub has never been in a critical, must-execute, playoff series and had the fate of the game squarely put on his shoulders. Until he does, and he successfully executes, then I will not view him as a clutch QB.

He's won some regular season games, but none that was a singular must-win to put us in the playoffs. I don't believe that I've ever seen him under real pressure.








bump.

thunderkyss
12-10-2012, 11:16 PM
I don't think he's clutch but i believe he is better than what he showed tonight.

I want to say poor Andre. People are talking about a 7th rounder shutting him down & that did not happen.

Showtime100
12-11-2012, 12:23 AM
Please forgive me since I didn't read a couple of pages, but Kubiak is Schaub's biggest enemy in terms of getting the best out of Schaub.

Rey
12-11-2012, 12:28 AM
Please forgive me since I didn't read a couple of pages, but Kubiak is Schaub's biggest enemy in terms of getting the best out of Schaub.

I think it's the opposite. I think kubiaks offense would be better with a better qb.

I think schaub owes all of his success to kubiak.

Give kubiak a better qb and I think this offense becomes more potent.

That pick in the redone affirms my belief. Awful, perplexing play by Matt. Especially when you have Arian wide open without a defender within 10-15 yards of him.

Textan
12-11-2012, 12:30 AM
Schaub has never been and never will be clutch.
Sorry, calling a spade a spade.

Showtime100
12-11-2012, 12:31 AM
I think it's the opposite. I think kubiaks offense would be better with a better qb.

I think schaub owes all of his success to kubiak.

Give kubiak a better qb and I think this offense becomes more potent.

That pick in the redone affirms my belief. Awful, perplexing play by Matt. Especially when you have Arian wide open without a defender within 10-15 yards of him.

I think it's Kubes, but fair enough, Rey. Point well taken. :kingkong:

Premier
12-11-2012, 12:46 AM
I think it's the opposite. I think kubiaks offense would be better with a better qb.

I think schaub owes all of his success to kubiak.

Give kubiak a better qb and I think this offense becomes more potent.


thats how i feel about it.. maybe they could take a chance on a qb that needs a change of scenery.. i almost feel like its gonna take schaub laying an egg in the playoffs before people will admit that hes not a winner.

Showtime100
12-11-2012, 12:50 AM
thats how i feel about it.. maybe they could take a chance on a qb that needs a change of scenery.. i almost feel like its gonna take schaub laying an egg in the playoffs before people will admit that hes not a winner.

In reference to both Rey and your post, I can see this side as well. I wonder what moves the Texans will make in the near future. A future top-notch qb needs to be had if we are really wanting to be the perennial players so many say we will be.

Norg
12-11-2012, 01:00 AM
I dont now he never been in a playoff game ill just have to wait and see

TejasTom
12-11-2012, 07:27 AM
On 610 they said 7 of Schaub's 10 ints have been in prime time games.

thunderkyss
12-11-2012, 07:32 AM
That pick in the redone affirms my belief. Awful, perplexing play by Matt. Especially when you have Arian wide open without a defender within 10-15 yards of him.

I'm no fan of Matt Schaub, but I think this was an issue of Matt trying to be a better QB. Instead of being safe & cautious he took a chance that he shouldn't have. I don't know that a better QB could have made that throw. I think a better QB would have checked it down to the wide open Foster. Maybe getting the ball out earlier it would have got there in time.... I don't know.

He was definitely not himself on that throw & it cost us.

There were several more throws that confirms what I've thought about Schaub. I think his "accuracy" numbers are helped by Kubiak's ability to get receivers wide open. When it's close, he puts the ball in the absolute worst place it could be.

& it's not like he hasn't been throwing to these guys for 5 years. I'm talking OD, Andre, & KDub. He's putting the ball where the defender has the best chance of defending the pass. Behind the receiver when the defender is trailing. In front of the receiver when the defense is leading.

Then he was late on just about every throw.

To be fair though, you hit the receiver in the hands, he needs to catch it & that didn't happen too often last night. KDub, Arian, Andre didn't help Matt too much last night.

thunderkyss
12-11-2012, 07:35 AM
thats how i feel about it.. maybe they could take a chance on a qb that needs a change of scenery.. i almost feel like its gonna take schaub laying an egg in the playoffs before people will admit that hes not a winner.

I still think we can win with Schaub, but I understand the Kaepernic move more & more. Harbaugh "knows" thinking of winning a Super Bowl with Alex Smith is a fools errand.

TexanBacker93
12-11-2012, 08:04 AM
Schaub has never been and never will be clutch.
Sorry, calling a spade a spade.

I think he can come up big in clutch situations. He's put the team on his back before and won games with his arm.

But...

He can't do it consistently so I wouldn't consider him a clutch player. You're happy when he does it, but you don't exactly expect it.

QBs like Brady and Manning know the D before the snap and throw to the correct receiver 90% of the time. Schaub acts like he knows who he wants to throw to coming out of the huddle and will miss the open guys 30% of the time to try and get it to the primary target.

Overall, Schaub is a better than average QB. There's only a handful in the league right now that I'd take over him.

ckhouston
12-11-2012, 08:23 AM
Overall, Schaub is a better than average QB. There's only a handful in the league right now that I'd take over him.

At least half the league is better.

Matt is in the bottom half of the NFL.

HJam72
12-11-2012, 08:27 AM
The problem is we have a QB who's around #10 or so, and you need a top 4 guy to win a SB most of the time.

Rey
12-11-2012, 08:58 AM
Overall, Schaub is a better than average QB. There's only a handful in the league right now that I'd take over him.

Honestly I can think of about 12 or 13 guys I'd take over Matt.

All of them might not be considered as good as he is, but I think they bring more to the table and in this system with Kubiak coaching them I think they'd become better players than Matt...

TexanBacker93
12-11-2012, 09:08 AM
At least half the league is better.

Matt is in the bottom half of the NFL.

Well, I do have big hands....

I don't think Matt's in the bottom half.

Been there done that guys
Brady
P. Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Roethlisberger
E. Manning

Been around the block once, but haven't gone in the store guys
Stafford
Ryan

Just moved in the neighborhood guys
Luck
RGIII
Dalton
Newton

That's it from the league that I would take over Schaub. And I'm not sure I would want one of the young kids this season. Well, RGIII maybe. Luck's numbers aren't very good and he makes a lot of mistakes. The team has bailed him out. He'll be great, though.

I'm not a Rivers or Cutler fan at all. Too Favreish without the actual skills needed to make up for the mental errors or maturity.

HJam72
12-11-2012, 09:13 AM
Honestly I can think of about 12 or 13 guys I'd take over Matt.

All of them might not be considered as good as he is, but I think they bring more to the table and in this system with Kubiak coaching them I think they'd become better players than Matt...

I might agree with that.

Rey
12-11-2012, 09:25 AM
Well, I do have big hands....

I don't think Matt's in the bottom half.

Been there done that guys
Brady
P. Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Roethlisberger
E. Manning

Been around the block once, but haven't gone in the store guys
Stafford
Ryan

Just moved in the neighborhood guys
Luck
RGIII
Dalton
Newton

That's it from the league that I would take over Schaub. And I'm not sure I would want one of the young kids this season. Well, RGIII maybe. Luck's numbers aren't very good and he makes a lot of mistakes. The team has bailed him out. He'll be great, though.

I'm not a Rivers or Cutler fan at all. Too Favreish without the actual skills needed to make up for the mental errors or maturity.

I might agree with that.

Dang...I missed some guys...I might have to add to my list...

If We were starting from Scratch and we had to pick a QB with all of the QB's in the league available these are the guys I'd take over Schaub:

Brady
Rodgers
Manning
Manning
Brees
Rivers
Stafford
RG3
Luck
Dalton
Newton
Roethlisberger
Ryan
Wilson
Kaepernick
Tannehill
Romo
Cutler


That's 18 guys that I think either are already better, would be better in our system playing under Kubiak or have a much higher ceiling than Schaub. Yeah, there are guys in there that a lot of people won't agree with, but this is my list...:king:

ckhouston
12-11-2012, 10:28 AM
Dang...I missed some guys...I might have to add to my list...

If We were starting from Scratch and we had to pick a QB with all of the QB's in the league available these are the guys I'd take over Schaub:

Brady
Rodgers
Manning
Manning
Brees
Rivers
Stafford
RG3
Luck
Dalton
Newton
Roethlisberger
Ryan
Wilson
Kaepernick
Tannehill
Romo
Cutler


That's 18 guys that I think either are already better, would be better in our system playing under Kubiak or have a much higher ceiling than Schaub. Yeah, there are guys in there that a lot of people won't agree with, but this is my list...:king:

Like the list ... I would add Flacco to it and maybe Bradford.

leebigeztx
12-11-2012, 01:15 PM
I'm no fan of Matt Schaub, but I think this was an issue of Matt trying to be a better QB. Instead of being safe & cautious he took a chance that he shouldn't have. I don't know that a better QB could have made that throw. I think a better QB would have checked it down to the wide open Foster. Maybe getting the ball out earlier it would have got there in time.... I don't know.

He was definitely not himself on that throw & it cost us.

There were several more throws that confirms what I've thought about Schaub. I think his "accuracy" numbers are helped by Kubiak's ability to get receivers wide open. When it's close, he puts the ball in the absolute worst place it could be.

& it's not like he hasn't been throwing to these guys for 5 years. I'm talking OD, Andre, & KDub. He's putting the ball where the defender has the best chance of defending the pass. Behind the receiver when the defender is trailing. In front of the receiver when the defense is leading.

Then he was late on just about every throw.

To be fair though, you hit the receiver in the hands, he needs to catch it & that didn't happen too often last night. KDub, Arian, Andre didn't help Matt too much last night.

So true and this is what I've been saying.Kubes made schaub just like they made jake plummer look like a pro bowl qb. He sees what big shanny and lil shanny have in rg3 and its a playmaker. I think you either load the team with explosive,playmakers, or your qb has to be one or even both. Kubes believe in schaub for now,but I think if they get a chance at the right guy,they will draft him like they thought with plummer.

There are only so many situations a coach can hide. With schaub,kubes have to have a run game,great defense,and there are a lot of throws he can't make.

klockWork
12-11-2012, 01:27 PM
Kubes believe in schaub for now,but I think if they get a chance at the right guy,they will draft him like they thought with plummer.

Like when we had a chance to get Peyton Manning?

Hervoyel
12-11-2012, 01:37 PM
Like when we had a chance to get Peyton Manning?


I don't think we had a chance to get Peyton Manning and I'm not talking about the money. I think after all these years of watching teams make things happen when they really want to make things happen that money problems get solved easily enough when both sides want to make something happen.

If we'd wanted Peyton and Peyton wanted us then he'd be here.

I don't think Gary wants a QB like that. He wants a guy who does what he's told. Peyton on the other hand wouldn't want to play for a coach like Gary. Peyton's used to being treated like a QB with a brain of his own.

klockWork
12-11-2012, 02:14 PM
I think u right that Kubes feels his power would be compromise if Peyton was our QB. But I did remember Houston was on Peyton top landing list. So playing for Kubes not an issues for him. Would be a clash of powers. Or ego.

Rey
12-11-2012, 02:18 PM
I think u right that Kubes feels his power would be compromise if Peyton was our QB. But I did remember Houston was on Peyton top landing list. So playing for Kubes not an issues for him.

Kubiak never wanted Peyton...

He called Schaub and joked about it.

Asked him to go to the airport and pick him up and Schaub joked back and said he'd just put him back on the plane and send him back to where he came from.

Kubiak and Schaub are more than coach and player...They are buddies...

Peyton was never a serious option...

Doppelganger
12-11-2012, 02:19 PM
I don't think he's clutch but i believe he is better than what he showed tonight.

I want to say poor Andre. People are talking about a 7th rounder shutting him down & that did not happen.

Good. I want them to keep saying that. It will make him mad and he will take it out on Indy next weekend. Remember when people were saying Andre was done this year? All he did was have a string of big time games.

Premier
12-11-2012, 06:42 PM
once people stop denying that schaubs success is based solely on the system, they will realize that their are a ton of qbs that would kill in this system.. guys like romo come to mind, rivers, vick.. all more skilled qbs who get dogged because they throw a ton of picks, all could use a change of scenery..

76Texan
12-11-2012, 07:05 PM
once people stop denying that schaubs success is based solely on the system, they will realize that their are a ton of qbs that would kill in this system.. guys like romo come to mind, rivers, vick.. all more skilled qbs who get dogged because they throw a ton of picks, all could use a change of scenery..

Chargers and Eagles both run the WCO.

I read an article about the WCO in which the Giants DC was quoted saying that Romo also runs the WCO.

76Texan
12-11-2012, 07:18 PM
Bengals also run a WCO.

And they have a young and healthy AJ Green.

The Redskins have to adopt the zone read to utilize RG III better.
If he comes here, will the Texans do the same?

Premier
12-11-2012, 07:34 PM
Chargers and Eagles both run the WCO.

I read an article about the WCO in which the Giants DC was quoted saying that Romo also runs the WCO.

and??? they show cowboy games every week, their offense looks nothing like ours.. schaub doesnt have to think much, he rolls out, spots the open guy and throws it, if its not there he throws it away. they mix in a ton of PA and stretch runs with the ZBS. we disguise what we do because all the formations look the same, so teams dont know what to expect.. your comment is implying that the chargers, eagles, and cowboys run the same exact offense we do, same gameplan and all.. thats nonsense.. kubiak playsheet is twice the size of jason garretts..

76Texan
12-11-2012, 07:48 PM
and??? they show cowboy games every week, their offense looks nothing like ours.. schaub doesnt have to think much, he rolls out, spots the open guy and throws it, if its not there he throws it away. they mix in a ton of PA and stretch runs with the ZBS. we disguise what we do because all the formations look the same, so teams dont know what to expect.. your comment is implying that the chargers, eagles, and cowboys run the same exact offense we do, same gameplan and all.. thats nonsense.. kubiak playsheet is twice the size of jason garretts..

Do you think those guys have the football IQ to run Kubiak's Denny's menu?

thunderkyss
12-11-2012, 09:00 PM
So true and this is what I've been saying.Kubes made schaub just like they made jake plummer look like a pro bowl qb. He sees what big shanny and lil shanny have in rg3 and its a playmaker. I think you either load the team with explosive,playmakers, or your qb has to be one or even both. Kubes believe in schaub for now,but I think if they get a chance at the right guy,they will draft him like they thought with plummer.

There are only so many situations a coach can hide. With schaub,kubes have to have a run game,great defense,and there are a lot of throws he can't make.

Harbaugh gets it. He might struggle a game or two, but if Kaepernick is who he thinks he is, he's a lot closer to where he wants to be. If not, he's no farther away than if he stayed with Alex Smith.

Rey
12-12-2012, 07:02 AM
Do you think those guys have the football IQ to run Kubiak's Denny's menu?

That's overstated.

Have we had a qb yet that couldn't play because they didn't know the playbook?

Yeah they've had to scale it back for new guys, but schaub has been here for years. It's not like he came in and absorbed Kubiak's world in one season.

76Texan
12-12-2012, 08:31 AM
That's overstated.

Have we had a qb yet that couldn't play because they didn't know the playbook?

Yeah they've had to scale it back for new guys, but schaub has been here for years. It's not like he came in and absorbed Kubiak's world in one season.

True, but if those guys haven't performed well with a miniature playbook, is there any guarantee that they can do better with an expanded playbook.

And why is that we always go looking for guys who are already familiar with the WCO?

thunderkyss
12-12-2012, 09:02 AM
And why is that we always go looking for guys who are already familiar with the WCO?

Terminology.

76Texan
12-12-2012, 09:08 AM
Terminology.

Yeah? So you need guys who don't have their head in the cloud to be able to connect all the terminology with actual formations and execution, don't cha?

Rey
12-12-2012, 10:46 AM
Terminology.

Yeah? So you need guys who don't have their head in the cloud to be able to connect all the terminology with actual formations and execution, don't cha?

It's more than terminology...

It's an understanding of how things work.

For instance...

A coach is still a human. They are only going to cover so much. In a game there are unexpected things that happen. When you are in practice or in a game you need to be able to 1) ask questions/voice concerns and also be able to help coming up with solutions

It's impossible to ask legitimate questions AND be able to help come up with solutions (in practice or in the game on the fly) if you don't have an understanding of how the puzzle pieces are supposed to fit.

And that goes for more than just the QB although they do obviously have the most on their plate.

If you're running a play, you have to know what you're trying to do as an offense and also how the defense is likely to respond. For example, the offense I ran in highschool was pretty much the Texans offense except we ran the option. As an OT I knew that teams were going to try their hardest to stop our outside zone....As soon as I took my step to hook the DE the LB and DE would damn near turn and run to the sideline so they could get the outside contained...

So one thing I started doing was when we ran inside zone plays I'd fake an outside zone step (bucket step, drop step...whatever terminology you use) and the DE and LB would jump way outside and then all of a sudden the RB is going inside through a gaping hole...Not only did I set them up on that play, but now when we are really running outside, I'll be able to hook them better because they are now worried that the ball may actually be going inside.

That's just something simple, but thats just one example of why you'd want guys that are familiar with certain schemes because they have an understanding of how things fit within a certain play and also within the grand scheme of things. My coach didn't tell me to do that...That was just something I picked up on...The better/smarter players are the ones that can pick up on things like that during the course of a game/career/season....You have to go beyond coaching and that is where being familar with a certain scheme and already know stuff would come in handy...

A QB's familiarity with the offense would mean he has some idea of how his footwoork needs to be, how important certain aspects are (like the fakes), how the defense will react to certain things...How certain routes should develop against certain coverages...

The terminology is a small aspect because many coaches use different terminology...Hell, in the NFL guys are so smart and so in tune to what's going on that I'd imagine most of the better teams even change the terms they'll use to make calls from series to series...

Sorry for the long reply...but yeah...It's more than the terminology in regards to familiarity...It's about understanding...

76Texan
12-12-2012, 12:34 PM
It's more than terminology...

It's an understanding of how things work.

For instance...

A coach is still a human. They are only going to cover so much. In a game there are unexpected things that happen. When you are in practice or in a game you need to be able to 1) ask questions/voice concerns and also be able to help coming up with solutions

It's impossible to ask legitimate questions AND be able to help come up with solutions (in practice or in the game on the fly) if you don't have an understanding of how the puzzle pieces are supposed to fit.

And that goes for more than just the QB although they do obviously have the most on their plate.

If you're running a play, you have to know what you're trying to do as an offense and also how the defense is likely to respond. For example, the offense I ran in highschool was pretty much the Texans offense except we ran the option. As an OT I knew that teams were going to try their hardest to stop our outside zone....As soon as I took my step to hook the DE the LB and DE would damn near turn and run to the sideline so they could get the outside contained...

So one thing I started doing was when we ran inside zone plays I'd fake an outside zone step (bucket step, drop step...whatever terminology you use) and the DE and LB would jump way outside and then all of a sudden the RB is going inside through a gaping hole...Not only did I set them up on that play, but now when we are really running outside, I'll be able to hook them better because they are now worried that the ball may actually be going inside.

That's just something simple, but thats just one example of why you'd want guys that are familiar with certain schemes because they have an understanding of how things fit within a certain play and also within the grand scheme of things. My coach didn't tell me to do that...That was just something I picked up on...The better/smarter players are the ones that can pick up on things like that during the course of a game/career/season....You have to go beyond coaching and that is where being familar with a certain scheme and already know stuff would come in handy...

A QB's familiarity with the offense would mean he has some idea of how his footwoork needs to be, how important certain aspects are (like the fakes), how the defense will react to certain things...How certain routes should develop against certain coverages...

The terminology is a small aspect because many coaches use different terminology...Hell, in the NFL guys are so smart and so in tune to what's going on that I'd imagine most of the better teams even change the terms they'll use to make calls from series to series...

Sorry for the long reply...but yeah...It's more than the terminology in regards to familiarity...It's about understanding...
I really enjoy your post Rey, so it's probably best for me not to bring up any other point at the moment.

Sometimes, I find it best to just appreciate the moment.
I got one today, thanks to you.

Lady.Gaga.3000
01-11-2013, 03:15 PM
I believe with the circumstances that have occurred in the past five weeks, this Sunday will define Matt Schaub more than anything else in his career. He's waited a long time to play in the playoffs. What a great way to see who Schaub is by returning to the house of the kings that ended in disaster five weeks ago.

AndyWin
01-12-2013, 04:48 PM
I seriously cannot remember an instance of this happening... lol
I guess maybe a playaction pass from the 1 yard line....?

But seriously, from outside the 10 yard line, I'm pretty sure it hasn't happened.

thunderkyss
01-12-2013, 04:50 PM
I seriously cannot remember an instance of this happening... lol
I guess maybe a playaction pass from the 1 yard line....?

But seriously, from outside the 10 yard line, I'm pretty sure it hasn't happened.

I'm pretty sure he did it last week. That would be the one everyone is complaining about, that Andre didn't catch.

I think he did it the week before, Andre also didn't catch that one either.

infantrycak
01-12-2013, 04:52 PM
Seriously? - you couldn't have put this in any of the other Schaub threads?

AndyWin
01-12-2013, 04:52 PM
I'm pretty sure he did it last week. That would be the one everyone is complaining about, that Andre didn't catch.

I think he did it the week before, Andre also didn't catch that one either.

Just because he throws the ball into the endzone doesn't really make an argument here... :cool:

thunderkyss
01-12-2013, 04:56 PM
Just because he throws the ball into the endzone doesn't really make an argument here... :cool:

I guess it's in how you read the question... he threw it in there for a TD, didn't get it, but that's why he threw it.


My bad.

AndyWin
01-12-2013, 04:57 PM
Seriously? - you couldn't have put this in any of the other Schaub threads?

My bad... I don't know why I get this strong desire to let as many people as possible know how much I dislike Schaub

ArlingtonTexan
01-12-2013, 05:08 PM
My bad... I don't know why I get this strong desire to let as many people as possible know how much I dislike Schaub

You guys have become worse than Romo haters in dallas...did not think that was possible.

AndyWin
01-12-2013, 05:22 PM
Meh, at least Romo tries to make plays with his arm and legs.

thunderkyss
01-12-2013, 05:45 PM
Meh, at least Romo tries to make plays with his arm and legs.

& you'd be pissed that he couldn't get us to the play offs when a 9-7 record could have won the division.

Remember, if Romo would have won the last game of the season against the Washington Redskins, they would have won the division & hosted a home play off game with a 9-7 record.

9-7 wouldn't have won the AFC South.

bkimble
01-13-2013, 07:57 AM
Is Matt Schaub clutch? Paul Kuharsky poses that question (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/40998/on-matt-schaub-and-the-clutch-question).



When I think of clutch, I think of a quarterback who can be counted on to go out there and get that critical 3rd down and set up a score when the team needs it. Turnovers in the second half, particularly the fourth-quarter of a close game, are killers. At the very least, that is the unclutch of the NFL. Eli Manning comes to mind when I think of clutch. Statistically a decent regular season quarterback, but seemingly a man amongst men in the biggest games of his career at the most crucial times.

We haven’t seen Matt Schaub play a good team since week 6 in Baltimore last year. If you recall the Texans did not score a point in the fourth-quarter. PK quoted some stupid games if you ask me. What I recall most of Schaub and pondering the question of whether he is clutch or not is the 4th quarter of the Saints game last year. After the Texans defense did wonders in the first half by holding the Saints offensive machine to 10 points, they subsequently crumbled in the second half, particularly the fourth-quarter.

Or rather, did Drew Brees come up “clutch” in the second half? On the five drives New Orleans had in the fourth-quarter, the Saints produced three touchdowns, one punt, and one kneel-down to end the game. Meanwhile the Texans had four full drives in the fourth-quarter with one three-and-out, one three play drive ending in an interception, one touchdown, and a four play drive resulting in a game ending turnover on downs.

This is the drive chart of both teams in the 4th quarter, minus the Texans TD scored on the first play of the fourth-quarter. The Texans are white and the Saints are black.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd385/stupiddisputes/texanssaintsdrives.png

I know Schaub has no direct control over how good or bad the Texans defense was, but he did give the defense a nine point lead to start the fourth-quarter (it was 26-17 when the Saints got their first offensive drive in the 4th quarter).

However, this is when I question Matt Schaub being clutch. The Texans just received the ball leading 26-24 with nine minutes left. Kubiak (or somebody) called three straight passes, with the third pass being a deep 3rd and 10 pass for Andre Johnson that was intercepted by a defender underneath of Johnson. Maybe somebody with nfl.com’s coachs film could tell me, but it appeared that Schaub didn’t see him?

I hate playing what-if’s, but even Walters touchdown bounce in the fourth-quarter should have been an interception. If the Saints turn the ball over just once in the fourth-quarter of that game, the Texans chances of winning that game increases dramatically. Unfortunately for Texans fans the Super Bowl MVP never faltered once (in the 4th).

Teams have their good days and their bad days. Drew Brees could not get it done Sunday against the Redskins. Does that make him less clutch or not clutch anymore? In the five drives that the Saints had in the fourth-quarter, the Saints produced one three-and-out, two touchdowns, and two interceptions. With 3:40 left in the game and the Saints down by 8, Brees throws an interception returned to the Saints 3 yard line and put the nail in the coffin. Does that take away from the fact that Brees was clutch in week 3 versus the Houston Texans? Hell, Eli Manning couldn’t come back against the Cowboys last week. And there’s certainly no Drive by Elway without Byner’s fumble. *end of rambling*

No team wins every game. Even quarterbacks who are constantly associated with clutch are not clutch sometimes. Are the quarterbacks coming back from behind because they were bad in the first half? Perhaps some quarterbacks seem to be more clutch than others simply because they are getting more chances at game-winning drives. Some however just seem destined to fail. Eli Manning's antithesis Tony Romo makes me cringe in the fourth-quarter. It always seems like Romo...Cowboys...find a way to lose a close game. However, Romo has the highest fourth-quarter passing rating (http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4696976/do-stats-lie-no-qb-better-than-tony-romo-in-fourth-quarter) among active quarterbacks. Statistics can be so clutch.

Is Schaub clutch to me? Should we even care? What if Schaubs not considered a clutch quarterback because he's so efficient at getting his team a halftime lead that there are rarely moments for him to shine in the fourth quarter. At the very moment in a fourth-quarter when Schaub is facing 3rd and long and the defense is blitzing, are you turning in your stomach or cheering with confidence? I still do not know if I believe in clutch. But then I see things in the NFL and I find myself saying, "Man, that was clutch!"

Remember when Schaub led the Texans back from a 21-point second half deficit against the Ravens two Decembers ago, only to throw a pick six in overtime. Was that clutch and then…not clutch?

Does clutch even exist?
Are you kidding me?!?! Mat Schaub is not a big time QB and he's not a clutch player either. Come man! I love the Texan but they have 3 major issues: Number 1: Matt Schaub
number 2: Other than Kus their linebackers are not good.
3. Gary K and Rick S and not good talent evaluators. Look and the talents we let go for nothing.

ckhouston
01-13-2013, 08:00 AM
Other than Kus their linebackers are not good.

I would go to war with Reed and even Barwin when he is on his game.

dalemurphy
01-13-2013, 08:17 AM
Are you kidding me?!?! Mat Schaub is not a big time QB and he's not a clutch player either. Come man! I love the Texan but they have 3 major issues: Number 1: Matt Schaub
number 2: Other than Kus their linebackers are not good.
3. Gary K and Rick S and not good talent evaluators. Look and the talents we let go for nothing.


The better an organization is at talent evaluation, the more talent it will release to the NFL. It is a good sign that the Texans have more quality player than they can protect.

Regarding Schaub, I'm not sure where this myth developed that he's not clutch. Let's not rip a guy who has never lost a playoff game, has won 20 of his last 27 games, and has orchestrated a number of 4th quarter comebacks as being a "choker". Peyton, for instance, gave away the game yesterday as his playoff record fell to 9 wins and 11 losses. It's not easy to win in the playoffs. Other than Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, and Bart Starr, every quarterback in the history of the NFL has compiled a record that could be considered "unclutch".

thunderkyss
01-13-2013, 08:49 AM
The better an organization is at talent evaluation, the more talent it will release to the NFL. It is a good sign that the Texans have more quality player than they can protect.


Then those players end up on quality teams. Yesterday's game between Baltimore & Denver looked like an ex-Texans reunion.

klockWork
01-13-2013, 08:54 AM
I'm amazed at the length of this thread. I figured it'd died into the night after two pages and everyone would go home and come to their senses. But I guess either this forum is short on realists or maybe OJ really is innocent from his crime.

Schaub hasn't even proven himself to be a consistent winner in this league yet. But to ask if he's clutch? That's like asking yourself if you need running shoes when you haven't gotten used to walking yet.

TejasTom
01-13-2013, 08:57 AM
Seriously? - you couldn't have put this in any of the other Schaub threads?

There's another Schaub thread?

Goodwrench3
01-13-2013, 09:03 AM
I think we'll see today if he's clutch or not! Nothing like a great game to prove some things

Hookem Horns
01-13-2013, 09:04 AM
3. Gary K and Rick S and not good talent evaluators. Look and the talents we let go for nothing.

OK .. there are a lot of things you can knock about the Texans right now but Rick Smith is not one of them. This team has had pretty strong drafts and FA signings since Smith got here. JJ Watt and Arian Foster anyone?

In the case of letting good talent go that is on the coaching staff for not getting their potential out of them.

klockWork
01-13-2013, 09:29 AM
OK .. there are a lot of things you can knock about the Texans right now but Rick Smith is not one of them. This team has had pretty strong drafts and FA signings since Smith got here. JJ Watt and Arian Foster anyone?.

Wade is responsible for Watt. And Foster was just dumb luck. Smith would have to do a whole lot to make up for extending Schaub contracts.

ArlingtonTexan
01-13-2013, 09:54 AM
Wade is responsible for Watt. And Foster was just dumb luck. Smith would have to do a whole lot to make up for extending Schaub contracts.

So anything that Rick Smith does good is because of luck and someone else? Nice objective critical analysis.

thunderkyss
01-13-2013, 09:58 AM
Wade is responsible for Watt. And Foster was just dumb luck. Smith would have to do a whole lot to make up for extending Schaub contracts.

Watt wouldn't have been on Wade's radar if Smith & his scouts didn't do their job.

Same can be said for Arian, except... he chose to come to Houston because our running backs were so bad. He could have gone to the Saints if he wanted to. I think the Jets were also on his list. There were reportedly four teams offering him a contract. He could have gone to any of them.

Now I think the report was that we offered him 2 years, where they offered him one, but Arian said, somewhere, that he thought he had a better shot at playing here because of the "strength" of our depth chart.

dream_team
01-13-2013, 10:07 AM
Wade is responsible for Watt. And Foster was just dumb luck. Smith would have to do a whole lot to make up for extending Schaub contracts.

How about trading for Chris Myers for just a 6th rounder? Trading down and drafting Duane Brown when everyone thought that was a big reach? Signing Wade Smith for close to nothing? Not to mention drafting Brian Cushing, Kareem Jackson, Glover Quin, and Connor Barwin. And signing Antonio Smith & Shaun Cody?

How about opting for Danieal Manning & Jonathan Joseph instead of just Nnamdi?

There's a bunch of other nice players Rick acquired, but I thought these were the obvious ones.

Honoring Earl 34
01-13-2013, 10:11 AM
He's not on this list .

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/710664-the-10-best-clutch-quarterbacks-in-nfl-history

thunderkyss
01-13-2013, 10:39 AM
How about opting for Danieal Manning & Jonathan Joseph instead of just Nnamdi?


In my opinion, that was a great step in the maturation of this organization. In the past, they would wait on the most sought after FA of a position, like a donkey chasing a carrot, till the bitter end. By the time they figured out that said FA has no intention of signing with us & are simply using us as a bargaining chip, the #2 & 3 Fa would be gone & we'd have to start the season with Kareem Jackson, Glover Quin, Bernard Pollard, & Eugene Wilson as our starting backfield.

This time, they spit the bit & turned positions of weakness into positions of strength with the swipe of a pen.

I also think it was important that we signed them, especially Joseph, without waiting on Nnamdi to "set the market". I think that said a lot to Jjo & he paid us back in spades.


I seriously had my doubts about Rick Smith prior to that offseason, & there are still a few left on my, "I really don't trust him" list. But there's no doubt in my mind he's sitting at the big boy table now.