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awc713
09-10-2012, 01:43 PM
What are your thoughts on the guy?

Seemed to disappear in the playoffs against Cinci, don't remember him being much of a factor agianst Baltimore.

Didn't look that great yesterday either. Reason for worry? Is he over-rated? 4 of his sacks did come in one game agaisnt Gabbert...

thoughts?

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-10-2012, 01:50 PM
Wouldn't say he is overrated,sometimes you just don't factor into games I'm sure he will be fine and put up numbers 15 regular season games left.

Vinny
09-10-2012, 01:52 PM
I think that it's only a matter of time when Whitney Mercilus replaces him. I think he and Reed are both strong side guys.

Rey
09-10-2012, 02:04 PM
I'm not a huge fan of any of the edge rushers we have really. I like barwin, but I'm with vinny. I think he'd look better playing with a true weakside pass rusher. I'm not convinced merciless is that guy, but he looks more explosive coming off the edge than anyone else I've seen besides watt.

I liked the look I saw yesterday with watt at end and smith at dt when they were rushing the passer.

Bulls on Parade
09-10-2012, 02:05 PM
Look for Barwin to rack up two or three sacks against Gabbert this Sunday.

Vinny
09-10-2012, 02:25 PM
I'm not a huge fan of any of the edge rushers we have really. I like barwin, but I'm with vinny. I think he'd look better playing with a true weakside pass rusher. I'm not convinced merciless is that guy, but he looks more explosive coming off the edge than anyone else I've seen besides watt.

I liked the look I saw yesterday with watt at end and smith at dt when they were rushing the passer.I think their best look is when Watt is playing the 3 Technique and Barwin at the 5.

Playoffs
09-10-2012, 02:26 PM
Depends on how they gameplan our defense. Connor is a stud -- I think I'd point my offense toward Reed/Mercilus if choosing my poisin.

IDEXAN
09-10-2012, 04:52 PM
Has Barwin put on weight since last year ?

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-10-2012, 04:56 PM
Has Barwin put on weight since last year ?

Ya he is 270,before he was 255 or 260 a lot of people say that's why he isn't the same he lost quickness and acceleration. it's just one game to me.

thunderkyss
09-10-2012, 08:46 PM
I think that it's only a matter of time when Whitney Mercilus replaces him. I think he and Reed are both strong side guys.

I agree.

Didn't think he disappeared in the play-offs though.

thunderkyss
09-10-2012, 08:49 PM
Ya he is 270,before he was 255 or 260 a lot of people say that's why he isn't the same he lost quickness and acceleration. it's just one game to me.

Why would he gain weight if he's going to play the weakside?

wolf123
09-10-2012, 08:52 PM
Ya he is 270,before he was 255 or 260 a lot of people say that's why he isn't the same he lost quickness and acceleration. it's just one game to me.

He bulked up and then worried that the weight might make him lose a step. I've watched him very closely and he looks to me like he has.

Texan_Bill
09-10-2012, 08:55 PM
More than a good chance that Barwin won't be a Texan. We drafted Mercilus for a reason. Not because Connor isn't a good player, but because of simple financial sense....

BTW, It's a good thing whenever you have to part with good players, especially well liked players... You know what that means?? It means you're probably a pretty good football team.

That said, I hope the Texans can somehow get really..... REALLY creative and get him re-signed!!

Corrosion
09-10-2012, 08:56 PM
More than a good chance that Barwin won't be a Texan. We drafted Mercilus for a reason. Not because Connor isn't a good player, but because of simple financial sense....

BTW, It's a good thing whenever you have to part with good players, especially well liked players... You know what that means?? It means you're probably a pretty good football team.

That said, I hope the Texans can somehow get really..... REALLY creative and get him re-signed!!

I think Barwin gets franchised if they cant work something out ....:shades:

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-10-2012, 09:01 PM
Why would he gain weight if he's going to play the weakside?

Hey I'm not the coaches or Barwin I just know he bulked up?

badboy
09-10-2012, 09:03 PM
If weight is an issue that can be corrected probably easier than gaining

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-10-2012, 09:04 PM
He bulked up and then worried that the weight might make him lose a step. I've watched him very closely and he looks to me like he has.

He didn't say bulking up would slow him down. I said a lot of people blamed his weight gain for the reason he hasn't been effective so far. I can't say anything about it I haven't really watched him I think he will be fine but we will see.

Vinny
09-10-2012, 09:06 PM
time for Foster to start sharing recipes with Barwin I guess.

Honoring Earl 34
09-10-2012, 09:10 PM
The Steelers have let a bunch of LBs walk in the last 20 years .

thunderkyss
09-10-2012, 09:19 PM
The Steelers have let a bunch of LBs walk in the last 20 years .

They also hit on a couple of UDFAs.... I think we need to get to tha point, or at least have Reed repeat his rookie year, before we go discarding decent/good players.

Ryan
09-10-2012, 09:20 PM
He played one of the best LTs in the league, if not the best.

Hottoddie
09-10-2012, 09:39 PM
He played one of the best LTs in the league, if not the best.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. I find it amazing how many people on here want to find fault with our own players. It's fine to bring up some concerns, but there are more negative threads on the front page than positive threads. What would it be like around here if we had lost?:toropalm:

Bulls on Parade
09-10-2012, 09:40 PM
I would like to see Barwin move inside with Cushing, replacing an aging Bradie James in terms of what I'd like to see long term -- for years to come. Then Whitney Mercilus can start at outside. Tell me why Barwin can't play ILB again? Why can't he take on the position if he dedicated himself to it?

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-10-2012, 09:43 PM
I would like to see Barwin move inside with Cushing, replacing an aging Bradie James in terms of what I'd like to see long term -- for years to come. Then Whitney Mercilus can start at outside. Tell me why Barwin can't play ILB again? Why can't he take on the position if he dedicated himself to it?

If that's the case I would much rather put Brooks Reed at MLB and just have Merc and Barwin outside.

Honoring Earl 34
09-10-2012, 09:47 PM
They also hit on a couple of UDFAs.... I think we need to get to tha point, or at least have Reed repeat his rookie year, before we go discarding decent/good players.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3900&type=team

They have draft 8 LBs since 2007 .

Texecutioner
09-10-2012, 09:48 PM
I love Barwin, and at this time he is NOT EXPENDABLE. If Mercilous picks it up and starts showing that he is a total beast, then that may be a possibility, but until we see that Barwin is a big time player here that is a NEED for this defense.

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-10-2012, 09:52 PM
I love Barwin, and at this time he is NOT EXPENDABLE. If Mercilous picks it up and starts showing that he is a total beast, then that may be a possibility, but until we see that Barwin is a big time player here that is a NEED for this defense.

Agreed its to early to judge Barwin off one game when last year he showed what he can do.

Texecutioner
09-10-2012, 09:55 PM
Agreed its to early to judge Barwin off one game when last year he showed what he can do.

I can't even believe that people are thinking this right now. I love these pass rushers on our team. With this type of pass rush, we'll be a competitive team for a long time. We won't need an elite offense. This is a nasty defense that we have been begging for all these years. Barwin is a huge part of that. He has earned his stripes and I love that guy on this team. I hope we resign him. :toropalm:

Honoring Earl 34
09-10-2012, 09:55 PM
Agreed its to early to judge Barwin off one game when last year he showed what he can do.

Top notch pass rushers get paid well and the Texans may not be able to meet his demands .

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-10-2012, 09:59 PM
3rd Youngest defense in the League. Agreed cant ever have too many Pass Rushers especially the group we have so let's hope we get the deal done for Barwin.

Corrosion
09-10-2012, 10:02 PM
I would like to see Barwin move inside with Cushing, replacing an aging Bradie James in terms of what I'd like to see long term -- for years to come. Then Whitney Mercilus can start at outside. Tell me why Barwin can't play ILB again? Why can't he take on the position if he dedicated himself to it?

Barwin's the best pure pass rusher on this team .... If you want to move someone inside , its Reed ..... making room for Mercilus outside.


I just cant see Barwin trying to chase backs and TE's in coverage ..... Reed on the other hand ....


That doesnt solve the contract of Barwin tho .... I think they work out a longterm deal or franchise him now that Schaub and Brown are done deals.

Brisco_County
09-10-2012, 10:42 PM
The reason Wade drafted Mercilus is to keep a fresh rotation of strong pass rushers. That's how the Giants have beaten one of the best QB's in history in two Superbowls. That said, Barwin's value will soar in the offseason, and he won't be a Texan next year. And good for him on his future wealth, which was jeopardized after his ankle injury in 2010.

But for that reason, we're probably taking another OLB in the 1st or 2nd round next year.

wolf123
09-10-2012, 10:54 PM
He didn't say bulking up would slow him down. I said a lot of people blamed his weight gain for the reason he hasn't been effective so far. I can't say anything about it I haven't really watched him I think he will be fine but we will see.

Barwin said in a interview that he was concerned that the added weight might reduce his explosiveness. Since that interview I've been watching him closely and it does look like it has affected him. He should be at 255-260 IMO.:gamer:

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-10-2012, 11:01 PM
Barwin said in a interview that he was concerned that the added weight might reduce his explosiveness. Since that interview I've been watching him closely and it does look like it has affected him. He should be at 255-260 IMO.:gamer:

Ok my bad do you have the video or a link?

Corrosion
09-10-2012, 11:20 PM
The reason Wade drafted Mercilus is to keep a fresh rotation of strong pass rushers. That's how the Giants have beaten one of the best QB's in history in two Superbowls. That said, Barwin's value will soar in the offseason, and he won't be a Texan next year. And good for him on his future wealth, which was jeopardized after his ankle injury in 2010.

But for that reason, we're probably taking another OLB in the 1st or 2nd round next year.

If they didnt have the franchise tag option ..... I'd tend to agree with you here that he would be gone. But we're talking about an OLB rather than a DE so his tagnumber will be kept down because of that .... enabling the Texans to either negotiate a long term deal (Barwin understands the importance because of the prior injury) or tag him for a one year deal.

My money is on them coming to amutual agreement.

wolf123
09-10-2012, 11:34 PM
Ok my bad do you have the video or a link?

No, he called into a radio station and it got mentioned.

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-10-2012, 11:42 PM
No, he called into a radio station and it got mentioned.

Hmm alright have to check up on it myself.

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-10-2012, 11:50 PM
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/articles/olb-143012-capsules-south.html

Wade Phillips says it himself the weight hasn't affected him and he is just as athletic as before.


"He's going to run people down from behind, he's got to just keep doing what he's doing," Phillips said of Barwin. "He worked hard this offseason. He's fast, he's athletic."

"He went in, did such a great job last year, against really good people," defensive coordinator Wade Phillips said. "He was always playing against the left tackle in passing situations, most of the time. The sky's the limit for him. He's about 270 pounds and he's a really good athlete."

painekiller
09-11-2012, 12:14 AM
That said, I hope the Texans can somehow get really..... REALLY creative and get him re-signed!!

Franchise Tag - if they think he is an asset they will keep for at least one more year.

painekiller
09-11-2012, 12:19 AM
If they didnt have the franchise tag option ..... I'd tend to agree with you here that he would be gone. But we're talking about an OLB rather than a DE so his tagnumber will be kept down because of that .... enabling the Texans to either negotiate a long term deal (Barwin understands the importance because of the prior injury) or tag him for a one year deal.

My money is on them coming to amutual agreement.

Rick Smith said he thought the franchise tag number for Barwin would be around $9MM.

Corrosion
09-11-2012, 03:57 AM
Rick Smith said he thought the franchise tag number for Barwin would be around $9MM.

I was thinking around ~$8 when I made the post .... Sounds reasonable.


Will they pay that ?? .... There's the $8-9M question. Alldepends upon how Barwin performs this year.

beerlover
09-11-2012, 07:57 AM
Maybe after resigning Schaub & Brown it would be too difficult to restructure more contracts to extend Barwin? All this talk about franchising players, are franchise tags cap friendly? I don't think so.

Corrosion
09-11-2012, 09:13 AM
Maybe after resigning Schaub & Brown it would be too difficult to restructure more contracts to extend Barwin? All this talk about franchising players, are franchise tags cap friendly? I don't think so.

In the case of an OLB ..... The franchise tag isnt so bad. Now if we are talking about a DE , that changes things.

beerlover
09-11-2012, 10:00 AM
In the case of an OLB ..... The franchise tag isnt so bad. Now if we are talking about a DE , that changes things.

DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4 are interchangeable if they are elite. Question that needs to be asked, is Connor Barwin elite?

Jury is out. This is his chance to prove he is.

IDEXAN
09-11-2012, 10:13 AM
He played one of the best LTs in the league, if not the best.
Long is overrated IMO, not as good as our guy.

Honoring Earl 34
09-11-2012, 10:31 AM
Long is overrated IMO, not as good as our guy.

There was talk that Miami was going to let him walk .

thunderkyss
09-11-2012, 01:39 PM
The reason Wade drafted Mercilus is to keep a fresh rotation of strong pass rushers. .

The reason we drafted Mercilus is because he's a pass rusher. Connor, not so much. A solid DE, SOLB maybe. But he's no "pass rusher"

Mario Williams was on his way to a 16+ sack season in Wade's system. Demarcus Ware was continuously at the top of the league, in Wade's system.

The WOLB position in Wade's system is like a RB in Kubiak's system, you've got to have the right guys there & Connor (though he's a damn good football player) is not that guy.

If Connor gets 15+ sacks this season, then I'm wrong & would love to see it. I just don't see it happening.

We need a solid rotation of pass rushers, no doubt. But Connor is not the main event. Merci might be.

Rey
09-11-2012, 02:09 PM
He played one of the best LTs in the league, if not the best.

That's strange, since some Miami fans are wondering if he's a bust...

ChampionTexan
09-11-2012, 02:16 PM
That's strange, since some Miami fans are wondering if he's a bust...

Well, he's gone to the Pro Bowl four times (in four years), and made All Pro for the 2010 season, so I'm wondering if some of the Miami fans aren't just a little bit unrealistic/biased in their evaluations. You can argue about whether he's one of the best in the game, but to argue that he is a bust is moronic.

That said, I thought at the time and I still think they should have taken Matt Ryan instead of Long.

disaacks3
09-11-2012, 02:23 PM
DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4 are interchangeable if they are elite. Question that needs to be asked, is Connor Barwin elite?

Jury is out. This is his chance to prove he is. True, but there's a bit of difference in the Tag numbers.

Here are the 2012 tag amounts:

Quarterback: $14.436 million
Running back: $7.742 million
Wide receiver: $9.515 million
Tight end: $5.446 million
Offensive line: $9.383 million
Defensive end: $10.605 million
Defensive tackle: $7.96 million
Linebacker: $8.856 million
Cornerback: $10.281 million
Safety: $6.212 million
Kicker/Punter: $2.654 million

Rey
09-11-2012, 03:10 PM
Well, he's gone to the Pro Bowl four times (in four years), and made All Pro for the 2010 season, so I'm wondering if some of the Miami fans aren't just a little bit unrealistic/biased in their evaluations. You can argue about whether he's one of the best in the game, but to argue that he is a bust is moronic.

That said, I thought at the time and I still think they should have taken Matt Ryan instead of Long.

I was poking fun at Mia fans....

Couldn't believe that someone started a thread on their board wondering if he was a bust...

Corrosion
09-11-2012, 08:59 PM
DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4 are interchangeable if they are elite. Question that needs to be asked, is Connor Barwin elite?

Jury is out. This is his chance to prove he is.

Yes , they are interchangable .... but not according to the franchise tag numbers as would have been the case for MW last season.

From what I understand , the franchise tag pays 120% of the previous years salary or the average of the top five players at the players position - Whichever is greater.

That number for MW was in the ~$8m range if I recall correctly(off the top of my head) .... but because of his $18m in previous years salary , the tag would have cost ~$21m which made it impossible to use the tag on him.


$8m for one season spent on Barwin wouldnt upset me terribly if they had to use the tag.

EDIT

Dan Explained it better (MSR) .... Didnt see this as I stopped to respond to your post before reading the rest of the thread.

True, but there's a bit of difference in the Tag numbers.

Here are the 2012 tag amounts:

Quarterback: $14.436 million
Running back: $7.742 million
Wide receiver: $9.515 million
Tight end: $5.446 million
Offensive line: $9.383 million
Defensive end: $10.605 million
Defensive tackle: $7.96 million
Linebacker: $8.856 million
Cornerback: $10.281 million
Safety: $6.212 million
Kicker/Punter: $2.654 million

Texan_Bill
09-11-2012, 09:04 PM
I think Barwin gets franchised if they cant work something out ....:shades:

That's a really interesting point that I didn't think out too well. With Schaub, signed, sealed and delivered this is a distinct possibility. Where did you come up with that???? ;)


At the end of the day, Barwin would be a relatively cheap "franchise player" compared to say Dumbta, no? Or Schaub for that matter (if they didn't choose to extend him), no??

badboy
09-11-2012, 09:13 PM
Yes , they are interchangable .... but not according to the franchise tag numbers as would have been the case for MW last season.

From what I understand , the franchise tag pays 120% of the previous years salary or the average of the top five players at the players position - Whichever is greater.

That number for MW was in the ~$8m range if I recall correctly(off the top of my head) .... but because of his $18m in previous years salary , the tag would have cost ~$21m which made it impossible to use the tag on him.


$8m for one season spent on Barwin wouldnt upset me terribly if they had to use the tag.

EDIT

Dan Explained it better (MSR) .... Didnt see this as I stopped to respond to your post before reading the rest of the thread.If Mercilus and Brooks are what Phillips thinks they are we would be foolish to pay anywhere near that for Barwin unless he sacks over 18 & probably not then. Let him go if we have to cap him at more than $5m first year. Reed, Mercilus and Devin Taylor would keep cost down & productivity high. Taylor a DE switches to OLB. 6'7" 267lbs

Taylor all star candidate for South Carolina has played in 39 games over the past three seasons making 32 starts... credited with 116 tackles, 27.0 tackles for loss, 15.5 sacks and 19 quarterback hurries... ranks among the Gamecocks' career top-10 in both sacks (tied for 5th) and tackles for loss (tied for 9th)... earned All-SEC honors in each of the past two http://www.gamecocksonline.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/taylor_devin00.htmlseasons.

Corrosion
09-11-2012, 09:20 PM
That's a really interesting point that I didn't think out too well. With Schaub, signed, sealed and delivered this is a distinct possibility. Where did you come up with that???? ;)


At the end of the day, Barwin would be a relatively cheap "franchise player" compared to say Dumbta, no? Or Schaub for that matter (if they didn't choose to extend him), no??

You know where I got that idea .... I pulled it outa my ass ;)

Dan posted the list of tag values above for players who fall within the top five average rule. Barwin would fall there as his salary is nowhere near that now.

What made MW untagable was the value on the final year of his deal being so rich .... tagging him would have meant paying 120% of that final years salary.
We had a sticky thread with player salary's but its no longer stickied.
I dont know offhand what Schaubs salary is for this season but I believe he would have fallen into the top 5 rule prior to his extension making his tag number ~$14m.

Dont recall what Dunta's situation was ....


Can one of the mods resticky the salary thread ?! Or maybe someone can post an updated list.

thunderkyss
09-12-2012, 09:35 AM
If Mercilus and Brooks are what Phillips thinks they are we would be foolish to pay anywhere near that for Barwin unless he sacks over 18 & probably not then. Let him go if we have to cap him at more than $5m first year. Reed, Mercilus and Devin Taylor would keep cost down & productivity high. Taylor a DE switches to OLB. 6'7" 267lbs


I agree in as much as Barwin's number needs to be in line for what he is, his production, vs his "potential" we don't need to overpay him, just because we know someone will as a FA.

Like I said earlier, he's really a SOLB in a 3-4, playing the pass rusher (3-4) position at WOLB. & that should be taken into account. I may be wrong about who he is & I'm fine with that. If he proves me wrong & put up premier pass rushing numbers..... 15+ then pay him, tag him. But if he can't get 15 sacks in Wade's system, let someone else pay him.

However, I don't want to draft another 1st round pass rusher. We can't keep doing that & continue to build a solid well balanced team.

Ω

Vinny
09-13-2012, 11:46 AM
Excellent article on the Jags LT Eugene Monroe dominating the Vikings Jared Allen last Sunday. Barwin will have his hands full this weekend.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/20171487/after-further-review-jaguars-monroe-has-his-way-with-sack-machine-allen

TheIronDuke
09-13-2012, 11:48 AM
Excellent article on the Jags LT Eugene Monroe dominating the Vikings Jared Allen last Sunday. Barwin will have his hands full this weekend.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/20171487/after-further-review-jaguars-monroe-has-his-way-with-sack-machine-allen

Barwin will, but luckily the Jags will be forced to start Guy Whimper so JJ Watt will probably have a field day. Whimper absolutely sucks and we destroyed him last year.

badboy
09-14-2012, 11:35 PM
I agree in as much as Barwin's number needs to be in line for what he is, his production, vs his "potential" we don't need to overpay him, just because we know someone will as a FA.

Like I said earlier, he's really a SOLB in a 3-4, playing the pass rusher (3-4) position at WOLB. & that should be taken into account. I may be wrong about who he is & I'm fine with that. If he proves me wrong & put up premier pass rushing numbers..... 15+ then pay him, tag him. But if he can't get 15 sacks in Wade's system, let someone else pay him.

However, I don't want to draft another 1st round pass rusher. We can't keep doing that & continue to build a solid well balanced team.

ΩI'm ok with drafting OLBs fairly high as we are lowering the age but keeping experience. Barwin gets increased sacks under Wade's system just like Reed and Merci will. 2013 Reed will be in 3rd year & Mercilus second at 26 and 23. Reed has 3 years left topping out in 2014 at $1m and WHitney three more with cap hit of slightly over $2m each. Let Barwin go (unless cost is right) and draft another OLB (mine in 3rd) & you have two vets that basically have to just turn it lose after the QB and a rookie breaking in. I think that is a seasoned well balanced team. OLBs don't take years to develop like QBs, LT or CBs.

Bleed_Blu_Red
09-23-2012, 01:30 AM
According to Pro Football Weekly, the Texans are considering using the franchise tag on OLB Connor Barwin this offseason.

The Texans gave Matt Schaub a $30 million extension after sides reportedly "hit a snag" before the start of the regular season. Barwin, an unrestricted free agent, will need to be franchised if a long-term deal can't be reached. With Schaub and LT Duane Brown recently signed, the Texans don't have any other obvious candidates with expiring contracts. The franchise tender for outside linebackers was $8.8 million in 2012.
Source: Pro Football Weekly Sep 22 - 7:58 PM

hradhak
09-23-2012, 11:35 AM
I like Barwin, but I don't think you overpay for him. I'd rather free up the cap space when we need to sign players like Watt or Tate in the future. It's also a symptom of the new player deal that rookies are more valuable to a team because you don't have to pay them much.

texanhead08
09-23-2012, 11:40 AM
I want us to keep Barwin, because Barwin. Watt, Reed and some of the others on defense seem to have great chemistry and it will only make our defense better if this core doesn't get broke up.

Naiirb
09-23-2012, 07:59 PM
I believe i heard Barwins name 2-3 times throughout the entire game? I blame the hair being cut off. Lost his mojo

amazing80
09-23-2012, 08:05 PM
Yea, not sure what the problem is, but he is just not good this season AT ALL. He has applied little pressure and no sacks, plus is not good in coverage. If he continues to play like this, I would not doubt if we see more Mercilus

beerlover
09-23-2012, 08:11 PM
If he keeps bulking 3-4 DE is a possibility. Honestly its very hard to tell with Wade Phillips game calling this year, his best move is a bull rush then he drops into coverage I don't get it?

False Start
09-23-2012, 08:24 PM
It may have been said, but him bulking up in the offseason may have had a negative effect on him. Hopefully he can get it going soon.

TheMatrix31
09-23-2012, 08:25 PM
If he doesn't wake up, not only do I not extend him, but I actively ship his ass out.

macho grande
09-23-2012, 08:28 PM
I believe i heard Barwins name 2-3 times throughout the entire game? I blame the hair being cut off. Lost his mojo

This game? I don't know if I've heard his name 2-3 times this season.

wolf123
09-23-2012, 08:30 PM
I've been saying it since the preseason that Barwin has lost a step and looks much slower in his pass rush. There was next to no pressure from the edge in todays game.

Titans Sux 72
09-23-2012, 08:44 PM
He picked a wrong year to be silent.

Agent must not have told him it was a contract year.

Sacks=Stacks!!!!

GP
09-23-2012, 09:07 PM
I've been saying it since the preseason that Barwin has lost a step and looks much slower in his pass rush. There was next to no pressure from the edge in todays game.

Brooks Reed got good pressure today. Braman and Reed and Mercilus got this.

Barwin should have tried to score a decent extension prior to this season. I wonder if his asking price was too high, if the agent's strategy was to let him play hard this season and gamble for a big raise, or if the Texans aren't even interested in his extension due to being a bit stacked at OLB.

wolf123
09-23-2012, 09:08 PM
Brooks Reed got good pressure today. Braman and Reed and Mercilus got this.

Barwin should have tried to score a decent extension prior to this season. I wonder if his asking price was too high, if the agent's strategy was to let him play hard this season and gamble for a big raise, or if the Texans aren't even interested in his extension due to being a bit stacked at OLB.

From what I've heard he was asking for a lot and texans weren't willing to pay it.

GP
09-23-2012, 09:09 PM
From what I've heard he was asking for a lot and texans weren't willing to pay it.

If so, then bravo to Rick Smith. Again.

Grams
09-23-2012, 09:12 PM
Connor Who? Is he still on the team this year?

I don't remember hearing his name called once today, or even last week.

Texn4life
09-23-2012, 09:13 PM
Conner gambled by not accepting a contract, and if he continues to not make a big impact he's going to lose big. He's funneling some sacks to the inside guys, but if he doesn't put up numbers he won't get paid big. It's as simple as that.

Corrosion
09-23-2012, 09:15 PM
I guess you all failed to watch the Bronco's run game go nowhere because of the entire front.

You also have to take into consideration that many plays are designed to free up a specific individual .... thats unselfish play. This team is thinking about :trophy: not :money:


Win the :trophy: and the :money: will come.

TexansFanatic
09-23-2012, 09:21 PM
Barwin had 11.5 sacks last year.

After his third game last year he had one less tackle and one more sack than he's registered so far this season.

He'll be 26 years old in October, so I can't imagine that he's lost any athleticism.

badboy
09-23-2012, 09:25 PM
Barwin should have stuck with what worked so well last season. He is not getting a sweet deal as a DE.

badboy
09-23-2012, 09:27 PM
Barwin had 11.5 sacks last year.

After his third game last year he had one less tackle and one more sack than he's registered so far this season.

He'll be 26 years old in October, so I can't imagine that he's lost any athleticism.Regardless of stats his play is not the same.

Texn4life
09-23-2012, 09:32 PM
I think JJ is just hogging all of the sacks. What a jerk!

EllisUnit
09-23-2012, 09:49 PM
hmmm maybe its just me but i always see barwin getting some pressure, usually making the QB step up in the pocket, or making the QB run out of the pocket. Causing bad throws and making the QB step up can be as good as sacks....

Titans Sux 72
09-23-2012, 10:00 PM
hmmm maybe its just me but i always see barwin getting some pressure, usually making the QB step up in the pocket, or making the QB run out of the pocket. Causing bad throws and making the QB step up can be as good as sacks....

I think your right but if Barwin wants to maximize his leverage and money he better start getting sacks. I am sure the coaching staff is happy with his effort but his agent and wife are not. When you pay an OLB top 5% you better have more than 0 sacks after week 3.

TimeKiller
09-23-2012, 11:32 PM
Yeah, I don't mind the lack of sacks but I haven't really noticed him being a force on the weakside. I can't imagine Mercilus sitting on the bench this much if the level of production stays the same. Not down on him yet but a bit curious where his spin move went...

TexansFanatic
09-24-2012, 07:34 PM
Kubiak on Barwin (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/09/kubiak-texans-have-ton-of-mistakes-to-correct-jean-to-have-surgery/)

Kubiak said he’s not concerned that outside linebacker Connor Barwin doesn’t have a sack after leading the team with 11 1/2 last season.

“Connor’s playing extremely well,” Kubiak said. “Those things (sacks) will come. He plays with tremendous effort, and those things will happen for him.”

You can never be certain what Gary is thinking though.....He used to say the same sort of things about Mario when Mario would disappear.

thunderkyss
09-24-2012, 09:22 PM
I think JJ is just hogging all of the sacks. What a jerk!

It's only a matter of time before they start game planning for Jj... then the other guys should start teeing off.

TexansFanatic
09-24-2012, 09:32 PM
It's only a matter of time before they start game planning for Jj... then the other guys should start teeing off.

I can't imagine we've been playing teams that aren't already game-planning around JJ, but I certainly hope he is overlooked.

DX-TEX
09-24-2012, 09:33 PM
It's only a matter of time before they start game planning for Jj... then the other guys should start teeing off.

Yep. JJ will start drawing double teams then Barwin will bust out.

Pick your poison.

thunderkyss
09-24-2012, 09:38 PM
Yep. JJ will start drawing double teams then Barwin will bust out.

Pick your poison.

He's already beating double teams & so is Antonio. They'll have to do something else, & that's when it's going to get crazy. Three tight end sets, 2 receiver patterns... then Wade starts throwing safeties blitzes...

I can't wait.

There was one play, the one where Jj does a beautiful arm over swim move on a guard, then punks the RB in the backfield & sacked Manning the same time Antonio got there after splitting a Center/Guard double.

Brisco_County
09-24-2012, 10:38 PM
I like how a Conner Barwin thread derails into how awesome JJ Watt is. Can't blame you though. He is awesome.

Someone mentioned Barwin moving inside to DE. Never going to happen. He's a natural 3-4 OLB, and keeping that position keeps his market value up.

Barwin will do fine this season. But it will probably be his last in Houston.

thunderkyss
09-26-2012, 01:14 PM
I like how a Conner Barwin thread derails into how awesome JJ Watt is. Can't blame you though. He is awesome.

Someone mentioned Barwin moving inside to DE. Never going to happen. He's a natural 3-4 OLB, and keeping that position keeps his market value up.

Barwin will do fine this season. But it will probably be his last in Houston.

Barwin is a strongside 3-4 OLB. We've got him playing on the wrong side.

msbbc833
09-26-2012, 01:24 PM
I like how a Conner Barwin thread derails into how awesome JJ Watt is. Can't blame you though. He is awesome.

Someone mentioned Barwin moving inside to DE. Never going to happen. He's a natural 3-4 OLB, and keeping that position keeps his market value up.

Barwin will do fine this season. But it will probably be his last in Houston.

Who is going to replace Barwin? I really feel like our LB corp has dropped off hard from last year and there seems to be no end in sight

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-26-2012, 01:27 PM
We didn't draft Mercilus in the 1st round to be a situational passrusher his entire career.

SteveSlaton20
09-26-2012, 01:58 PM
you guys know he's gone against jake long and ryan clady, right? plus i dont think wade is blitzing his OLBs as much as he did last season.

The Pencil Neck
09-26-2012, 02:16 PM
you guys know he's gone against jake long and ryan clady, right? plus i dont think wade is blitzing his OLBs as much as he did last season.

We've got 4 or 5 guys coming pretty much every play that we're in the 3-4 alignment. Connor's getting his rushes.

We're tied for 6th in sacks. We're in first for allowing the fewest yards per pass attempt. We're 4th in yards per game. And we're 4th in opponents QB rating.

We're getting pressure. We're forcing bad throws (which should have resulted in more interceptions if our DBs didn't have hands of granite.) We're doing OK even though we're not getting big production from Connor, Brooks, or Mercilus, yet.

Yet.

Carr Bombed
09-26-2012, 02:20 PM
Kubiak on Barwin (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/09/kubiak-texans-have-ton-of-mistakes-to-correct-jean-to-have-surgery/)



You can never be certain what Gary is thinking though.....He used to say the same sort of things about Mario when Mario would disappear.

Yeah, but Barwin hasn't disapeared.. He's supplied pressure plenty of times so far. He's just been beat to the QB or the QB got the ball out. Fans put too much weight on sacks, Barwin isn't being stone walled our there, He's pressuring the QB. Kubiak is right, the sacks will come and this is a non issue for me.

TejasTom
09-27-2012, 01:29 PM
Sunday is his day.

Posted using Tapatalk from my phone. May contain errors.

ObsiWan
09-27-2012, 01:35 PM
you guys know he's gone against jake long and ryan clady, right? plus i dont think wade is blitzing his OLBs as much as he did last season.

Pro Football Focus (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/09/25/refo-texans-broncos-week-3/) agrees with you....


Perfect in Pass Protection
After a disappointing 2011 by his standards, offensive tackle Ryan Clady has been playing as well as any OT in the league in 2012. He was outstanding on Sunday, as he did not surrender a QB Disruption on his 60 pass block attempts. Through three games, he’s given up only one QB hit on his 136 attempts. Clady is a player who often lives off reputation after he did not surrender a sack during his rookie season in 2008, but he was actually much better in 2009 and 2010 before taking a step back last season. Continued strong play will keep his reputation matched up with on-field production.

As Manning continues to shake the rust from his season away from the game, Clady’s blindside protection will go a long way toward increasing his comfort level in the pocket.

Game Notes
- Houston used 3-WR sets only 13 times, which in turn, kept pass rush specialist OLB Von Miller in his 4-3 OLB spot more often. He only rushed the passer 13 times while dropping into coverage on 18 snaps

- Texans OLB Connor Barwin was the man going up against Clady more often than not. Barwin finished without a pressure on his 51 rushes.

- (Peyton) Manning was 6-for-16 for 73 yards and a -2.2 grade when the Texans blitzed.

Doppelganger
09-27-2012, 01:46 PM
Barwin had 11.5 sacks last year.

After his third game last year he had one less tackle and one more sack than he's registered so far this season.

He'll be 26 years old in October, so I can't imagine that he's lost any athleticism.

Here are his stats:
2009: 4.5 sacks
2010: injured in game 1. 0 stats
2011: 11.5 sacks
2012: thus far 0 sacks

Barwin had 11.5 sacks last year but only 4.5 combined the previous two. He does not have a positive track record in this department. He does not get the benefit of the doubt $ wise becuase he has not shown consistency yet over multiple seasons.

bhsman
09-27-2012, 02:11 PM
Barwin is one of my favorite players on the team, and the fact that he became 'the guy' after Mario got injured last year means that people will and did scheme against him and he's had to deal with some of the better LTs in the game.

Even then, there have been at least two occasions where he's gotten to the QB, but only a millisecond after Watt has. Barwin doesn't look like he's given up, it's simply a matter of being outshone by a potential MVP/DPoY player and being on a team of great pass rushers, rather than being the sole one.

badboy
09-27-2012, 02:30 PM
Barwin is one of my favorite players on the team, and the fact that he became 'the guy' after Mario got injured last year means that people will and did scheme against him and he's had to deal with some of the better LTs in the game.

Even then, there have been at least two occasions where he's gotten to the QB, but only a millisecond after Watt has. Barwin doesn't look like he's given up, it's simply a matter of being outshone by a potential MVP/DPoY player and being on a team of great pass rushers, rather than being the sole one.One of many does not get him a one of a kind contract. He needs sackos to get pesos.

Mr teX
09-27-2012, 02:42 PM
Yeah, he's in witness protection right now..I haven't noticed him at all this year. I've never liked the Barwin pick though so some may call me biased..i don't think he's anything special as a passrusher. He is athletic as hell, but i don't think he's a guy that teams will really fear coming off the Edge. I kinda predicted he'd struggle a bit this year when teams started to focus on him more. I think he got a role in this defense, but i think he could be replaced....

Our schedule last year was easier, we played lots of bad qbs & he padded his sack #'s by racking up 4 against the great Blaine Gabbert....or as some jag fans call him Plaine Garbage.

My guy has always been Reed b/c he's explosive & it's just a matter of time before he finally "gets it". Can say that i've noticed Mercilus too mcuh though..

bhsman
09-27-2012, 03:54 PM
One of many does not get him a one of a kind contract. He needs sackos to get pesos.

And I agree, I just felt like he's been on the verge of getting sacks in games - Jackonville, most notably - where it literally came down to being beat by Watt. Hell, one of the sacks was a three-way tie between Barwin, Smith, and Watt.

I think it's just a matter of time until he has a game that breaks him out of this sackless dearth. :kitten:

Porky
09-27-2012, 04:25 PM
The OLB's in general haven't been as good this year, with Barwin moving into the witness protection program. Let's give them a few more games though before we start to draw any real conclusions.

amazing80
09-27-2012, 05:14 PM
I think the problem is more scheme related. It seems like we're lining up in a 4-3 front more often than we did last season, not sure why we continue to do this, but you see Barwin on the line quite often this season. Maybe someone can pick a random game from last season and look to see how often he lined up with his hand in the dirt compared to recent weeks.....

Mr teX
09-27-2012, 05:20 PM
I think the problem is more scheme related. It seems like we're lining up in a 4-3 front more often than we did last season, not sure why we continue to do this, but you see Barwin on the line quite often this season. Maybe someone can pick a random game from last season and look to see how often he lined up with his hand in the dirt compared to recent weeks.....

Sounds like a job for 76Texan

76Texan
09-27-2012, 07:25 PM
I'll try to take a long look at it.

jtexas
09-27-2012, 08:46 PM
ProfootballFocus has him rated as the 28th out of 29 best OLB in 3-4 this year. He was god awful in the last game. Out of all the defensive starters on the Texans he has the worst rating by far.

Last year he was ranked 19/29 OLB. The worst part wasn't his rank, it was the fact he had only had 3 good pass rushing games. The guy has potential, but plays like a rotational player.

thunderkyss
09-27-2012, 09:31 PM
I think the problem is more scheme related. It seems like we're lining up in a 4-3 front more often than we did last season, not sure why we continue to do this, but you see Barwin on the line quite often this season. Maybe someone can pick a random game from last season and look to see how often he lined up with his hand in the dirt compared to recent weeks.....

We got off to pretty good starts in our last two games. Opening ~ 20 pt leads make the other team one dimensional. On obvious passing situations, we'll most likely be in the 4-3

badboy
09-27-2012, 11:42 PM
And I agree, I just felt like he's been on the verge of getting sacks in games - Jackonville, most notably - where it literally came down to being beat by Watt. Hell, one of the sacks was a three-way tie between Barwin, Smith, and Watt.

I think it's just a matter of time until he has a game that breaks him out of this sackless dearth. :kitten:My concern is Wade has set up his defense for OLB to get sacks from Mario thru Barwin last season. Why would it change this season? Watt is getting his despite his position based on skills. Seems like with Watt's productivity especially his blocks, OLBs would be doing even better this season but they are not, so far.

76Texan
09-30-2012, 02:08 AM
Alright, so I had taken a pretty long look at Barwin (even though not as extensive as I'd like), I think he's done at least OK.

Kubiak said he's been playing well; I don't agree with that whole-heartedly, but I do think that he's been doing his job, even though there wasnt' much to write home about.

In the run game, now that Cushing is playing more at WILB and the opponent does not prefer to run to his side, Barwin doesn't see as much action since he plays mostly WOLB.

In the passing game, even though he didn't show much on the stats sheet, Barwin did apply adequate pressure to make a contribution in the pass rush.
There are several contributing factors:

- Long (Dolphins) and Clady (Broncos) are good LTs
- The 3 teams we faced mostly go with a quick passing game such that the DE or OLB doesn't quite have the time to get there as their path to the QB is farther.
- Wade chooses to play soft when we have a big lead in the fourth quarter (and we did in all 3 games). He came with a straight 4-man rush against the Jags and especially the Broncos (not even a zone dog) that is quite predictable.

Against the Broncos, we were trading time for a chance to get off the field.
Forget about the miscues that gave Stokley an easy TD.
In the next drive, everything went right for the Broncos but it still took them over 5 mins to score.

McCain dropped an INT.
He then committed holding on 4th and 16.
Watt missed a tackle in the backfield on third and one.
A bogus PI call on Jackson.
An oh-well pass play that ended wtih Dreessen making the TD catch on third and 6.

In the straight 4-man pass rush, Barwin was rather ineffective for the reasons mentioned above. That and Manning's ability to get the ball out quickly unless he got jumped quickly up the middle.

76Texan
09-30-2012, 02:39 AM
As far as the 4-man front is concerned, there's not really any change, except that we went to it straight off the bat in the fourth quarter against the Broncos.

We see the 4-man front (including fronts with an edge guy taking his hand off the dirt) when the Texans go to a nickle or a dime package.

The occasions may include:

- When the offense is in a 3-WR set.

- On second and very long.

- On third or fourth and long.

- In prevent defense or soft defense at the end of the half or in the fourth quarter.

- When we show a 46 look, but drop back into a regular 4-man front.

Basically, we anticipate a pass.

GP
09-30-2012, 04:03 PM
Connor's a goner.

Did he even make the stat sheet today? I think he's checked out, tbh.

TexansFanatic
09-30-2012, 04:38 PM
Connor's a goner.

Did he even make the stat sheet today? I think he's checked out, tbh.

ESPN says he registered 0 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 passes defensed, 1 QB hit.

I don't remember seeing him on the field. Too bad.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-30-2012, 05:01 PM
At least we aren't paying him 100 million. :D

TimeKiller
09-30-2012, 06:12 PM
What's weird isn't his lack of production. I think he's better on the strong side anyway....what's weird is how despite having what seems like a good 3 man rotation, Wade doesn't rotate Reed and Barwin or Mercilus with either at any point. Or Braman. Like nearly everywhere else we see a rotation, even Watt goes out occasionally.

wolf123
09-30-2012, 06:18 PM
Connor's a goner.

Did he even make the stat sheet today? I think he's checked out, tbh.

Come on saying a player has checked out?? He's playing hard out there just struggling in his pass rush.

HJam72
09-30-2012, 06:34 PM
To be honest, I've always felt like guys who have 1 great game have not proven anything. I know he probably had other good games, but his 4 sack game last year reminds me of Mario Williams, having a killer game once a year and disappearing the rest of the time (as far as sacks go that is).

I wouldn't swear that Barwin isn't going to turn it on again at some point, but, based on what I'm seeing, I'd bet money against him before I'd bet it on him.

Having said that, JJ Watt is getting all of the LB's sacks right now. You can't get LB sacks if your 3-4 DE is getting to the QB faster than the speed of light. :d:

Scooter
09-30-2012, 06:36 PM
i'm going to rewatch the game to focus solely on barwin, but my first reaction through 4 games ... invisible.

GP
09-30-2012, 06:57 PM
Come on saying a player has checked out?? He's playing hard out there just struggling in his pass rush.

He had a chance to sign a Texans-friendly contract extension this summer.

He passed on that opportunity. Numerous Houston sports media are on record as saying that the Texans wanted to target Duane Brown and Connor Barwin for an early extension before this season began...and Connor didn't get one completed, but Duane Brown did.

Now tell me this: Do you think Connor and his agent turned down an offer from the Texans? The reports point toward the answer being "Yes, he did." Otherwise, he's under a new contract like Duane Brown is.

Which means he and his agent, and this is speculating (but probably pretty fair to count as being 99% true), they wanted more than what the Texans valued Barwin at.

So tell me, if you're Connor Barwin...and you've just watched Eric Winston get cut (for cap reasons). DeMeco traded (for salary reasons), and the Texans not keeping Brisiel and Dreessen, matched up with how the Texans have been knocking draft days out of the park with Wade Phillips at the controls...don't you think it's at least SOMEWHAT plausible or possible that Connor might be sort of gearing down a bit? How could he not? He's as human as Dunta Robinson and others who knew they were headed elsewhere.

I am not just trying to bag on the guy. He's done nothing that I think is despicable or whatever. I'm just saying that, to me, he doesn't look like a guy whose amped up and getting his business handled out there. He looks way too out-of-the-picture.

I'm wanting Wade to pull two guys out of the starting lineup: Bradie James and Connor Barwin. They're not sinking our team, by any means, but we've got two guys in Dobbins and either Braman or Mercilus who I think give us more on the field of play. I'll hand it to this Texans team, however, coaches are loyal and Barwin and James are going to be out there until they ring the bell or get hurt.

So I'm not just trying to say Barwin us garbage or anything. But he sure doesn't seem to be in the middle of the action very much through 4 games.

Two guys who got cute with their diets, Barwin and Foster, need to stop trying to be the smartest guys in the room and just go back to doing what made them good last year. That's why I like Cushing and Reed and Braman...those guys are just freakish machines who don't care about being seen with the coolest tweets (Foster), the coolest hair styles (Barwin), etc. Football 24-7-365.

TexansFanatic
09-30-2012, 07:05 PM
So tell me, if you're Connor Barwin...and you've just watched Eric Winston get cut (for cap reasons). DeMeco traded (for salary reasons), and the Texans not keeping Brisiel and Dreessen, matched up with how the Texans have been knocking draft days out of the park with Wade Phillips at the controls...don't you think it's at least SOMEWHAT plausible or possible that Connor might be sort of gearing down a bit? How could he not?

What doesn't add up about that theory is that typically when a player is in a contract year, you see that player stepping up his game to improve his value---not coasting.

GP
09-30-2012, 07:15 PM
What doesn't add up about that theory is that typically when a player is in a contract year, you see that player stepping up his game to improve his value---not coasting.

I don't think that's a 100% given.

Dunta got paid like CRAZY with a huge franchise tag year here, and he put the brakes on the whole year. He wasn't going to do anything risky since he knew he was headed elsewhere for yet (drum roll, please) another contract.

Look at Brisiel! Just by virtue of him being a guy on an o-line that blocked for the Texans QB, RB, and WRs and TEs, he ends up getting a really nice paycheck from the Raiders. Barwin, likewise, is going to net a nice payday from some other team next year after we end up being in the Super Bowl and THEN...yeah, Barwin might wake up and smell the ink on the hundred dollar bills.

He knows he doesn't have a contract, he knows the Texans are NOT going to pay him a lot to retain him, so why wouldn't he be a little less than 100% out there, mentally speaking? This defense doesn't need him. It didn't need Mario. It's a multiple-headed beast and the main head is JJ Watt. Then you got Reed, Cushing, Smith, JJo, Manning, this franchise is not going to give Barwin what Barwin "wants" and he knows that. It's patently obvious, IMO.

Factor in his weight gain, and he's sort of behind the 8-ball now. I hate it for him, because he CAN be a better LB than he is right now. Some weak defense out there in the NFL is going to want Barwin, I guarantee it. I just think he knows he's done here. It is what it is.

Rey
09-30-2012, 07:26 PM
Having said that, JJ Watt is getting all of the LB's sacks right now. You can't get LB sacks if your 3-4 DE is getting to the QB faster than the speed of light. :d:

Watt isn't sacking the qb everytime they drop back.

He'll, even when he does sack the qb at least show up a second late. He hasn't been doing that much.

I want to see what Braman can do rushing from the weakside some. The little I saw from him today he looks like the most explosive edge rusher we have.

If we had a speedy edge rusher to pair with watt this pass rush would be redunkulous.

I'm going to keep my eyes open for edge rushers in this upcoming draft. Reed is actually playing the strongside well. But that weakside explosiveness is lacking a bit.

TexansFanatic
09-30-2012, 07:35 PM
I don't think that's a 100% given.

It's not out of the question that his muddled future is somehow preying on him and causing him to be tentative.

But it's counterintuitive to consciously coast when a future payday is at stake.

If Kubiak winds up giving him fewer snaps (or worse --- benches him) then he's really screwed.

GP
09-30-2012, 07:42 PM
It's not out of the question that his muddled future is somehow preying on him and causing him to be tentative.

But it's counterintuitive to consciously coast when a future payday is at stake.

If Kubiak winds up giving him fewer snaps (or worse --- benches him) then he's really screwed.

See, and I think that this team's coaches WON'T ever dare give him fewer snaps. Why? To make him go out there and get over it. Get over his attitude, get with the program, be a team player. This team didn't bench or remove snaps from Dunta Robinson, either.

Plus, I don't want a guy like Barwin--a genuinely good guy, IMO--being able to lose a chance at a good contract because he gets snaps taken away. I also don't snaps taken away so that he can't leave here and claim he was cheated out of the snaps needed to prove himself in a contract year.

You have to admit, based on all things we're discussing here, Connor Barwin has got a lot of things going on and it's definitely a pressure-cooker situation for the guy. He's probably down on himself, no doubt. He's a great football player. He's not going to be happy when he sees his stats through four games. He shouldn't. He won't.

But then again, this defense has allowed even Kareem Jackson to have shining moments...Connor is just out of sync for whatever reasons, and I think he's a goner here. Unless he just decides to take whatever the Texans might offer him after this season is over. I doubt he gets what he thought he was worth, though, if that happens.

Scooter
09-30-2012, 07:54 PM
can anyone confirm barwin putting on weight this offseason? if true, i lay 90% of his ineffectiveness there, with the other 10% to teams taking him a whole lot more seriously. weight gain is almost never a good idea. beefing up a 20 year old offensive lineman? yeah sure. adding bulk to a 26 year old OLB coming off his best season as a pass rusher? EHHH WRONG! it's almost always the same, the extra weight is a burden they have to adjust to and makes players sluggish.

if anything barwin and reed should be trimming as much as they can get away with without hurting their strength. this is a beat your man 1v1 defense - not one where you stand up the blocker. if barwin's putting on weight to stand up his man in run support, he went backwards.

TheIronDuke
09-30-2012, 07:55 PM
Nobody in their right mind tanks a season in their contract year, c'mon GP.

gafftop
09-30-2012, 08:45 PM
Watching the replays and Barwin is showing no spin moves just bull rush and trying speed rush around edge and just gets pushed out of the play. He used to be quicker and had a spin move. Look at play at 8:40 of 2nd quarter. He just looks slow and a little clumsy. I think it is the added weight or he has some type of injury. I agree they need to rotate him and get some playing time to others, especially when game is under control.

GP
09-30-2012, 08:51 PM
Nobody in their right mind tanks a season in their contract year, c'mon GP.

You're putting words in my mouth, plain and simple.

I never once say he is tanking it. He has a lot going on, and that can affect his focus and his desire and his performance too.

We've all been there. Everyone around us is hitting home runs and we can't even hit a single to save our lives. You sort of begin wondering about yourself.

Not saying he is tanking. I don't think that accusation is fair to me. I've gone out of my way to say that my criticism is not geared to make him look like a loser. He's not. But his performance looks like he is lost in many ways.

Dunta, IMO, yeah...that guy was tanking it. Not Barwin though. I think he's just genuinely battling some issues about how he fits into this monster defense we have right now.

GP
09-30-2012, 08:53 PM
Sometimes we need to stop being so blindly loyal to ANY of our players that we cannot stop and ask questions about their impact on the game.

To scrutinize is not a bad thing. Hell, I bet he is being VERY self-scrutinizing right now. I hope it clicks for him, because he needs to maximize this season.

TexansFanatic
09-30-2012, 09:05 PM
Dunta, IMO, yeah...that guy was tanking it.

Even with the lack of respect I have for Dunta, I can't agree that he was tanking it his final season here.

If you look at his stats from year to year, he actually had a better final season in Houston in terms of tackles than he has yet to have in Atlanta and, aside from his rookie season, he was never really an interception guy.

He had that horrific injury in 2007 and made a remarkable comeback but still hasn't been the same player he was his first 3.5 seasons.

The fact that Atlanta gave him so much money is as confounding now as it was then. Just one of those strange quirks of free agency where a player gets a huge payday for no apparent reason.

Hagar
09-30-2012, 09:21 PM
Watching the replays and Barwin is showing no spin moves just bull rush and trying speed rush around edge and just gets pushed out of the play. He used to be quicker and had a spin move. Look at play at 8:40 of 2nd quarter. He just looks slow and a little clumsy. I think it is the added weight or he has some type of injury. I agree they need to rotate him and get some playing time to others, especially when game is under control.

I just watched the game again, and I agree with this assessment. I never really paid much attention to Barwin, so I can't say what he used to do; but he is using a ton of speed rushes and little else. Also, I noticed he wasn't taking on blocks in the run game either. Barwin appears to want to dodge the blocker and in doing so, dodges his way out of the play.

Barwin usually isn't being double teamed, or even chipped by the RB or TE; he's being blocked one on one by the tackles.

Does anybody know if he changed sides? I noticed he seemed to go against left tackles alot, which are usually better than right tackles. (just an idea)

Rey
09-30-2012, 09:24 PM
Barwin plays weakside and has been since Mario went out last year. So yeah, he sees the LT a lot.

SAMURAITEXAN
09-30-2012, 09:50 PM
JJ Watt gets to QB before OLBs get there.

utahmark
10-01-2012, 12:20 PM
I'm wondering if they are calling less blitzes and stunts. It seems last year Wade would devise all sorts of thing to let linebackers get a free run at the qb but this year you don't really need to do that when you can rush 4 and have Watt and Smith disrupt things the way they are doing.

Mr teX
10-01-2012, 12:40 PM
Dude's just not that good & he never was imo....he always looked clumsy to me rushing the passer. Honestly this is good news for us in a way. if he doesn't have as productive a season as he did last year, perhaps most teams won't offer him much more than we offered him & he'll be apt to stay................

of course you've always got teams like the raiders who'll offer stupid money based on little to nothing.

eriadoc
10-01-2012, 12:45 PM
Dude's just not that good & he never was imo....

I think you're overplaying that a little, but I also think the sack total from last year got people to over-hyping Barwin. I think Barwin is a nice player, but I have never considered him in the class of guys that get 11.5 sacks every year from the OLB position.

thunderkyss
10-01-2012, 06:45 PM
Dude's just not that good & he never was imo....he always looked clumsy to me rushing the passer. Honestly this is good news for us in a way. if he doesn't have as productive a season as he did last year, perhaps most teams won't offer him much more than we offered him & he'll be apt to stay................

of course you've always got teams like the raiders who'll offer stupid money based on little to nothing.

Why would we want to keep him if he's not good?

Rey
10-08-2012, 11:01 PM
Connor barwin is not getting the job done. Period.

He needs to play better.

stingray
10-08-2012, 11:10 PM
Connor barwin is not getting the job done. Period.

He needs to play better.
Agreed...the guy has no moves. Just a bull rush..which is not working. I would like to see mercilus now and see what he can offer over connor.

Rey
10-08-2012, 11:19 PM
Agreed...the guy has no moves. Just a bull rush..which is not working. I would like to see mercilus now and see what he can offer over connor.

Jmo, but merciless would be even worse.

I've said this a million times, but I'm not a fan of the rush olb's on this team. I think barwin would play better on the strongside, but I think reed is playing that position really well.

We need a good wolb, and I personally don't think merciless is that guy. I'd honestly like to see what Braman can do.

Luv_ya_blue
10-08-2012, 11:20 PM
Finally made a play.

Rey
10-08-2012, 11:24 PM
Finally made a play.

That tackle on Tebow?

Color me unimpressed.

Luv_ya_blue
10-08-2012, 11:28 PM
That tackle on Tebow?

Color me unimpressed.

Didn't say that it gave me a thrill up my leg...

stingray
10-08-2012, 11:35 PM
Jmo, but merciless would be even worse.

I've said this a million times, but I'm not a fan of the rush olb's on this team. I think barwin would play better on the strongside, but I think reed is playing that position really well.

We need a good wolb, and I personally don't think merciless is that guy. I'd honestly like to see what Braman can do.

Maybe so... but we have to see it with on our own eyes what the first round pick can do.

wolf123
10-09-2012, 12:36 PM
5 games in and still zero sacks for Barwin and 2.5 for reed. I only saw Barwin have one quality rush during the game. Our pass rush has been poor outside of JJ Watt.

speedfreek
10-09-2012, 12:37 PM
Wonder if Connor can cover and take over Cush's spot?

TJ

wolf123
10-09-2012, 12:39 PM
Wonder if Connor can cover and take over Cush's spot?

TJ

I don't think he can do the MLB spot. I think Reed could do it and that would allow Barwin to rush from strong side and Mercilous from the weakside.

TheIronDuke
10-09-2012, 12:43 PM
Barwin can't even play the position he's supposed to play so I wouldn't be moving him to another position to find he can't play that one either.

Scooter
10-09-2012, 12:48 PM
what's with the ugly stutter step that i keep seeing from barwin? he's spending too much time watching the play and dancing and trying to set his guy up - barwin needs to start attacking.

thunderkyss
10-09-2012, 01:21 PM
Jmo, but merciless would be even worse.

I've said this a million times, but I'm not a fan of the rush olb's on this team. I think barwin would play better on the strongside, but I think reed is playing that position really well.

We need a good wolb, and I personally don't think merciless is that guy. I'd honestly like to see what Braman can do.

I agree with your take on Merci. As a rookie, Barwin was in the QB's face & making the most of his pass rushing specialist role. I'm not even seeing Merci & imo, for him to earn that spot, he needs to show up when he's on the field. Barwin playing so poorly & Merci not doing any better..... pretty disheartening if you ask me.

Still, Barwin isn't filling the bill, that is a dynamic position on this defense & something has to happen. Merci hadn't earned the position, but neither has anyone else on the team. But it's time for a change.

Brooks is playing well. Last two games especially. I'd hate to take him off the field, but I'd rather do that, than bench Barwin.

Of course, there's no need to bench Barwin, we could up Whitney's reps at WOLB, or throw Braman in there with the first group more often.

We gotta do something. Jj can't keep this up, playing all by himself.

thunderkyss
10-09-2012, 01:23 PM
Barwin can't even play the position he's supposed to play so I wouldn't be moving him to another position to find he can't play that one either.

Uh... he's supposed to be playing the strong side. Even as a rookie in the 4-3, filling for Mario, he played on the strong side. He's playing out of position, the reason we drafted Merci to begin with.

DX-TEX
10-09-2012, 01:24 PM
All I know is with Cushing out Barwin, Reed and Mercilious ALL need to step their game up. Dont have to worry about TE's catching balls over the middle when the oppositions QB is on his ass!

GP
10-09-2012, 01:40 PM
Wonder if Connor can cover and take over Cush's spot?

TJ

I'd play three safeties.

Manning is hoss enough to make it work, too.

Wade could set up some scary **** if he put three safeties out there and had one of those three always creeping up to the LOS (middle, edge, wherever).

We lost our best ILB, so my thinking is "Why fight against it? Adapt."

And Danieal Manning is an old school Safety, the kind of guy who can drift down and play the run or play coverage. He's capable of doing so much more than he has been.

I can't wait to see how Wade adapts to this. He's at his best when he has to solve problems and get creative. Manning, IMO, could really be a shot in the arm here if he's unleashed.

76Texan
10-09-2012, 02:09 PM
Barwin can't even play the position he's supposed to play so I wouldn't be moving him to another position to find he can't play that one either.

Barwin was playing SOLB with Mario at WOLB.
When Mario was injured, he moved to WOLB and Reed played at SOLB.

badboy
10-09-2012, 03:23 PM
Agreed...the guy has no moves. Just a bull rush..which is not working. I would like to see mercilus now and see what he can offer over connor.If Barwin would just keep running wide at least he might take the tackle with him weakening the line & allowing a cb or safety to get through. Seemed like Barwin was just being screened out.

disaacks3
10-09-2012, 03:26 PM
I don't think he can do the MLB spot. I think Reed could do it and that would allow Barwin to rush from strong side and Mercilous from the weakside.

You'd hate to lose what Reed's been doing on the strong side, but hopefully it's in the back of Wade's mind.

badboy
10-09-2012, 03:28 PM
You'd hate to lose what Reed's been doing on the strong side, but hopefully it's in the back of Wade's mind.I think Wade is waiting for another Cowboy to be cut.

welsh texan
10-09-2012, 04:09 PM
Barwin was playing SOLB with Mario at WOLB.
When Mario was injured, he moved to WOLB and Reed played at SOLB.

Didn't they have to swap positions a few games in because it wasn't working? Everyone always says how we didn't miss a beat when Mario went down, I actually thought there was a period of adjustment where they weren't quite getting there for a few games before Watt, Barwin and Reed went sick down the stretch and into the playoffs.

Playoffs
10-11-2012, 07:45 PM
It is worth noting that Barwin tallied only 2 sacks in the first eight games last season, before exploding for 9˝ in the final eight contests.

Rey
10-11-2012, 08:14 PM
It is worth noting that Barwin tallied only 2 sacks in the first eight games last season, before exploding for 9˝ in the final eight contests.

Barwin was playing a different in the first 5.

He was playing solb over the TE, dropping in coverage quite a bit. Mario was rushing the passer mostly from wolb.

They are more balanced in how they rush the olb's this year but barwin is still a bunch and he's playing on the weakside.

All that aside, him exploding for the four sacks in jacksonvile which was basically a third of his sacks is not necessarily a positive.

I like barwin and he is not sucking. But he's not playing at a high level either.

Rey
10-11-2012, 08:16 PM
Didn't they have to swap positions a few games in because it wasn't working? Everyone always says how we didn't miss a beat when Mario went down, I actually thought there was a period of adjustment where they weren't quite getting there for a few games before Watt, Barwin and Reed went sick down the stretch and into the playoffs.

Barwin went to wolb the first game after the injury if i recall correctly.

Rey
10-11-2012, 08:21 PM
I'd play three safeties.

Manning is hoss enough to make it work, too.

Wade could set up some scary **** if he put three safeties out there and had one of those three always creeping up to the LOS (middle, edge, wherever).

We lost our best ILB, so my thinking is "Why fight against it? Adapt."

And Danieal Manning is an old school Safety, the kind of guy who can drift down and play the run or play coverage. He's capable of doing so much more than he has been.

I can't wait to see how Wade adapts to this. He's at his best when he has to solve problems and get creative. Manning, IMO, could really be a shot in the arm here if he's unleashed.

We already play three safeties a bunch.

We put personnel on the field based on what the offense puts out there.

Are you saying we should play three safeties as a base package? Even if the offense has personnel on the field that would make us susceptible against the run?

No safety on this team is going to survive taking on guards and tackles on a regular basis.

thunderkyss
10-11-2012, 10:24 PM
We already play three safeties a bunch.

We put personnel on the field based on what the offense puts out there.

Are you saying we should play three safeties as a base package? Even if the offense has personnel on the field that would make us susceptible against the run?

No safety on this team is going to survive taking on guards and tackles on a regular basis.

You know, I haven't really thought about that, but you're right. Dobbins replacing Cushing isn't as bad as it sounds, he won't be on the field as much as you'd think, since Bradie will probably stay in dime packages... so that's another option to the moving Reed inside.

But, we could play more dime packages, dropping Keo down as that "smallish" LB every now & then But bringing Quin down in his "normal" situations with Nolan playing deep.

welsh texan
10-11-2012, 10:30 PM
posted this in another thread just now but guess it belongs in here;

Got to say this has surprised me about Barwin, when drafted the talk was that he was a tweener prospect who would be a pass rushing specialist in the 4-3, his rookie season he put up good numbers in terms of sacks playing spot duty.

Also, his second season I remember lots of quotes (and no....I'm not going to trawl through and find them) from Kubiak about how big a loss he was to our D, because although not pegged to start, he had a key role in our plans to create pressure. We definitely missed his production and struggled to generate pressure that year.

Perhaps Wade has coached something different into him over the offseason, having realised he can get all the pressure he needs on that side from Watt, IDK.

Just something doesn't add up to me, dude's put up really good pass rushing numbers from various positions over his pro career, is in his contract year, and is playing for a coach who is great at getting pressure from that specific position.

All this makes me extremely wary of putting the guy down, I reckon if you were to sit down with Wade Phillips and ask him how Barwin is playing this season, I think he'd be happy that he's doing exactly whats being asked of him. Now that really is pure conjecture, but I just struggle to beleive that, all factors considered, this guy has chosen now to suddenly throw a Zac Diles on us.

welsh texan
10-11-2012, 10:35 PM
On the worry that playing an extra safety in run situations might get them hurt...Troy Nolan is a guy who we have on this team as a short term band-aid due to the Demps injury, he knows the system but at the same time he's a guy who's getting cut as soon as we have the guys we prefer back.

Let him/some street FA take the pounding and what have we really lost?

thunderkyss
10-11-2012, 10:48 PM
On the worry that playing an extra safety in run situations might get them hurt...Troy Nolan is a guy who we have on this team as a short term band-aid due to the Demps injury, he knows the system but at the same time he's a guy who's getting cut as soon as we have the guys we prefer back.

Let him/some street FA take the pounding and what have we really lost?

I like Keo taking that beating better.

Wade had to have kept him for a reason.

kiwitexansfan
10-11-2012, 11:08 PM
Not so concerned about a safety getting wear and tear as I would be there inability to be effective taking on big lineman.

Look what New England has done on the ground against teams playing too many DBs, and they are not even a particularly good run team.

Rey
10-11-2012, 11:53 PM
When I say they aren't going to survive, I mean they aren't going to be effective either.

You going to have a safety taking on linemen and fb's multiple times a game?

That's a recipe for disaster.

I don't understand the logic of putting a safety next to bradie James when an offense brings out their base personnel.

Maybe if we had a big safety then you could slip him in there every now and then, but if I see Troy Nolan or shilo f'n keo lined up at ilb when I have a TE and fb on the field I'm screaming out an audible and I'm running an iso right in their face. I'd then hurry to the line and do the same thing.

Texecutioner
10-11-2012, 11:55 PM
I think people need to get off of Barwin's ass. The guy is a baller. Sure he doesn't have a ton of sack numbers right now, but it's not like he is useless out there. He has made some pretty good plays that have been overlooked. Give Barwin some patience. I love having that guy on this team. I think that Barwin will have a huge game any day now.

b0ng
10-11-2012, 11:58 PM
Right now he's not performing as he had last year but it's not Halloween yet so I'm not going to completely jump the guy. I do wonder how Mercilus is progressing since we see so little of him. My guess is not as quickly as we had hoped he would.

76Texan
10-12-2012, 12:02 AM
Barwin went to wolb the first game after the injury if i recall correctly.

Welsh remembered corectly, Barwin remained at SOLB for a couple of games before moving to WOLB. I checked the game tapes. But you can also look at the game books. In week 6 and week 7, Barwin still had the SOLB designation.

However, remember that we don't line up our OLBs at the same position the whole game. When we talk about Mario being the WOLB, it means he lined up there a majority of the time, but there were times he lined up at SOLB as well.

Texecutioner
10-12-2012, 12:05 AM
Right now he's not performing as he had last year but it's not Halloween yet so I'm not going to completely jump the guy. I do wonder how Mercilus is progressing since we see so little of him. My guess is not as quickly as we had hoped he would.

This is true Bong, but our defense is still top notch. I just think that Barwin is sort of losing his chance at plays because other players are getting there faster in a lot of cases.

I think Mercilous is the guy to worry about a lot more for now. At least Barwin has proven that he can make big plays consistently before. Mercilous can't even play well enough yet to get himself on the field. What in the hell is that guy doing in practice where the staff won't put him out there much? I'm very concerned about this 1st round pick. Right now it's not looking like a good pick at all, but it's still VERY EARLY, so I'll hold out hope.

76Texan
10-12-2012, 12:05 AM
When I say they aren't going to survive, I mean they aren't going to be effective either.

You going to have a safety taking on linemen and fb's multiple times a game?

That's a recipe for disaster.

I don't understand the logic of putting a safety next to bradie James when an offense brings out their base personnel.

Maybe if we had a big safety then you could slip him in there every now and then, but if I see Troy Nolan or shilo f'n keo lined up at ilb when I have a TE and fb on the field I'm screaming out an audible and I'm running an iso right in their face. I'd then hurry to the line and do the same thing.

^^^ Agree completely. We will never see that happen!

76Texan
10-12-2012, 12:07 AM
This is true Bong, but our defense is still top notch. I just think that Barwin is sort of losing his chance at plays because other players are getting there faster in a lot of cases.

I think Mercilous is the guy to worry about a lot more for now. At least Barwin has proven that he can make big plays consistently before. Mercilous can't even play well enough yet to get himself on the field. What in the hell is that guy doing in practice where the staff won't put him out there much? I'm very concerned about this 1st round pick. Right now it's not looking like a good pick at all, but it's still VERY EARLY, so I'll hold out hope.

I wouldn't worry about either guys, yet.

Barwin didn't see much of the field early in his rookie year.
Neither did Brooks... and then the injury to Mario happened.

thunderkyss
10-12-2012, 02:32 AM
This is true Bong, but our defense is still top notch. I just think that Barwin is sort of losing his chance at plays because other players are getting there faster in a lot of cases.


We blitzed Quin against Denver, then McCain against the Jets. I know other defensive coordinators do it all the time, but when our front 7 is getting pressure on the QB, Wade has elected not to do things like that. It's rare for a DB to get a sack on this team.

In fact, it's rare to send an ILB. When Barwin, Watt, Antonio, & Mario were averaging 3 or 4 sacks a game, our ILB were not rushing the passer, they focused on our run defense, which was better when the down linemen were penetrating.

& it's not just a lot of cases, it's every case. Week 5 with no sacks means every case, which is just unfathomable. Same with Antonio, 1.5 sacks & we're like top 5 in sacks, it's every case. A little more "acceptable" from Antonio playing the 3 tech, not so much from Barwin, playing the position "designed" to rack up sacks.



I think Mercilous is the guy to worry about a lot more for now. At least Barwin has proven that he can make big plays consistently before. Mercilous can't even play well enough yet to get himself on the field. What in the hell is that guy doing in practice where the staff won't put him out there much? I'm very concerned about this 1st round pick. Right now it's not looking like a good pick at all, but it's still VERY EARLY, so I'll hold out hope.

We're going to have to define "consistently." we wouldn't be having this conversation if Barwin was consistently making plays. But I am curious & starting to get worried. Wade won't consider getting Merci on the field more (which is what we would accomplish by moving Reed inside), Brandon Harris can't spell Jonathan Joseph (who is having issues),