PDA

View Full Version : 5 questions: Ben Tate edition


Rey
09-07-2012, 10:07 PM
How important is Ben Tate to this team?

Can the Texans keep him long term?

Would you try to keep him long term?

Is there any chance Ben Tate is with the team past next year?

What would you expect in return from a trade involving Tate?

stingray
09-07-2012, 10:12 PM
Ben is a solid back but I don't see anyone giving a second rounder or higher. You can select solid backs after the first round. Probably a low third is his range.

Rey
09-07-2012, 10:21 PM
I was just thinking about Carolina and how they have two rb's signed to healthy long term deals. I was also thinking about Foster maybe being nicked up for the dlolphins. We like to run the ball. We depend on the run for a good portion of our offense. I was actually thinking it might be worth it to extend Tate. He's a great option when Arian is not in and I actually wouldn't mind seeing him used more to keep both of them fresh.

Ive thought about trading him too, but I dont believe we are going to get a first round pick for him. I could be wrong, but I think Tate is more valuable on the team than being traded.

Ryan
09-07-2012, 10:22 PM
I say we keep him until his contract runs out and then just let him go. He deserves to be a #1 back in the league and i don't think he'd take a discount to stay here and be a backup.

Scooter
09-07-2012, 10:24 PM
as important as a backup can be. dude ran for over 5 ypc and nearly 1000 yards last season, essentially as a rookie getting 1/3 of the snaps.

unlikely, by the time his rookie deal expires, he'll be looking for (and getting) starter money in free agency.

definitely, it's a passing league but our passing attack is based off of play action. we're probably the most balanced offense in football and you need a capable backup incase of injury and to spell the starter in order to make our offense work at full strength. i wouldnt however keep him "at any cost", because RB is NOT a position to sink too much money into.

it's possible we're able to extend him, especially if he gets hurt or has a down year. again, unlikely, but possible.

i definitely would. the chances of keeping him, and at a reasonable price are very low, so i would shop him around incase he blows up or someone gets desperate. i dont see it happening though, we'll use tate as long as we can and then he'll leave. if we were to trade him, i'd be trying to get a late first. a young great runningback who fits multiple schemes and has very little wear on him is worth no less than an early second.

thunderkyss
09-07-2012, 10:24 PM
There wasn't a RB in this most recent draft of Tate's caliber. This would have been the time to trade him, probably could have gotten a 1st for him.

In the future, maybe we can get a solid player plus a first day pick. Maybe two second round picks. Kinda like Michael Turner.

I know, a lot of people want to think the running game isn't very important, but if you don't have an elite QB, you'd better have an elite running game to keep those elite guys on the sideline.

Rey
09-07-2012, 10:26 PM
Ben is a solid back but I don't see anyone giving a second rounder or higher. You can select solid backs after the first round. Probably a low third is his range.

See I don't know if I'd take a third round pick for him. I'd rather do what Ryan said and keep him that last year.

Corrosion
09-07-2012, 10:28 PM
How important is Ben Tate to this team?

Can the Texans keep him long term?

Would you try to keep him long term?

Is there any chance Ben Tate is with the team past next year?

What would you expect in return from a trade involving Tate?

Man , tough questions Rey.


Tate's importance is overshadowed by that of Foster obviously .... but if you dont have Tate , Foster is probably overworked heavily.


Can they keep him , I dont know .... I think he's starter quality. Depends upon how the rest of the league views him.


I'd like to keep him around for the long haul just dont know if you can pay him and Foster fair market value at the same time with the salary cap what it is. Maybe you ride Foster hard this year and next then cut / trade him and give Tate the starting gig.


If I were to move him today , I'd expect nothing short of an early second , late first rounder in return if Im giving him up this year. Next season I might have to revise that lower but for now , thats where Im at as far as value.

paycheck71
09-07-2012, 10:45 PM
Unless we can get a first rounder for him, there is no point in trading him now, but I don't think that's going to happen. He was a second round pick himself that obviously panned out and will be a #1 back in this league somewhere.

Next year, if the Texans are not planning to resign him, then I'd take a 2nd or 3rd rounder, so we could draft his replacement.

GlassHalfFull
09-07-2012, 10:50 PM
I don't want to trade him, so not going to vote.

there :pouts:

steelbtexan
09-07-2012, 10:54 PM
Man , tough questions Rey.


Tate's importance is overshadowed by that of Foster obviously .... but if you dont have Tate , Foster is probably overworked heavily.


Can they keep him , I dont know .... I think he's starter quality. Depends upon how the rest of the league views him.


I'd like to keep him around for the long haul just dont know if you can pay him and Foster fair market value at the same time with the salary cap what it is. Maybe you ride Foster hard this year and next then cut / trade him and give Tate the starting gig.


If I were to move him today , I'd expect nothing short of an early second , late first rounder in return if Im giving him up this year. Next season I might have to revise that lower but for now , thats where Im at as far as value.

Top of the 2nd rd is what Tate is worth to me.

That said, if AF went down I would be comfortable with Forsett getting the majority of the carries. Although Tate is a great RB, Forsett has accomplished more in his career than Tate has.

It sure is nice to have a RB corps of AF, Tate, Forsett. Instead of the tripletts of crap that were Hollings,Lundy,Allen etc... yes I'm calling you out Jonathan Wells. Man it's hard to believe how bad Casserly was at his job.

Rey
09-07-2012, 10:57 PM
He was a second round pick himself that obviously panned out and will be a #1 back in this league somewhere.

Not picking on you, but I keep reading this...are there really going to be a lot of teams out there that are going to want to pay Tate to be a number one rb?

Scooter
09-07-2012, 10:59 PM
It sure is nice to have a RB corps of AF, Tate, Forsett. Instead of the tripletts of crap that were Hollings,Lundy,Allen etc... yes I'm calling you out Jonathan Wells. Man it's hard to believe how bad Casserly was at his job.

wow, i'd almost forgotten how bad we were at so many positions, but that group is especially cringe worthy. can i change my vote to keep tate at whatever cost? i never want to go back to those dark days again.

paycheck71
09-07-2012, 11:11 PM
Not picking on you, but I keep reading this...are there really going to be a lot of teams out there that are going to want to pay Tate to be a number one rb?

I don't know if there is going to be a lot, but you just need one. Not sure who could use an upgrade at RB off the top of my head. Most teams would probably upgrade through the draft, but who knows...

Corrosion
09-07-2012, 11:12 PM
I don't want to trade him, so not going to vote.

there :pouts:

I dont want to trade him either ..... he's got this year and next on his deal.

During that time , I want to see if he can sustain what he's done , if he can and Foster slows down considerably , you deal with that situation and retain Tate as the fresher back ...


Make no mistake about it , Foster is special but in this business we all know NFL stands for .... Not For Long and that usually goes double when talking about the shelf life of an RB.

2slik4u
09-07-2012, 11:14 PM
I was just thinking about Carolina and how they have two rb's signed to healthy long term deals. I was also thinking about Foster maybe being nicked up for the dlolphins. We like to run the ball. We depend on the run for a good portion of our offense. I was actually thinking it might be worth it to extend Tate. He's a great option when Arian is not in and I actually wouldn't mind seeing him used more to keep both of them fresh.

Ive thought about trading him too, but I dont believe we are going to get a first round pick for him. I could be wrong, but I think Tate is more valuable on the team than being traded.

Lets just say we get a first rounder for him, then we have to pay that first rounder. Id rather put that money towards tates contract.

What about if we offered him an extension instead of waiting for his contract to run out? It always seems like teams get better deals if they are proactive instead of reactive. I bet we could get him for an additional three years on his current contract for 5 mill per?

Corrosion
09-07-2012, 11:17 PM
Not picking on you, but I keep reading this...are there really going to be a lot of teams out there that are going to want to pay Tate to be a number one rb?

All it takes is one .... and there are a few who are lacking.


Tampa Bay and Cleveland .... or even a team like the Packers .... man he'd run amuk on a team like that.

Playoffs
09-07-2012, 11:18 PM
I don't want to trade him, so not going to vote.

there :pouts:Same with me, stop trading our guys ... we need them.

Quick II Draw
09-07-2012, 11:20 PM
There wasn't a RB in this most recent draft of Tate's caliber. This would have been the time to trade him, probably could have gotten a 1st for him.

In the future, maybe we can get a solid player plus a first day pick. Maybe two second round picks. Kinda like Michael Turner.

I know, a lot of people want to think the running game isn't very important, but if you don't have an elite QB, you'd better have an elite running game to keep those elite guys on the sideline.

Wow. Where to start...

No RBs of Tate's caliber in this draft? I hope you meant "exactly the same caliber" as Tate, because do you really think TRENT RICHARDSON isn't better than or equal to Tate?!?!

We couldn't have gotten a first for him. You and the other majority of respondents who said we "could get a 1st" for Tate are woefully misguided. In the past, high draft picks got PAID, so the picks were worth less in trade value. Nowadays with the rookie wage scale, draft picks are solid gold.

Vontae Davis, a former 1st and historically solid CB coming off one down year, was surprisingly traded for a 2nd. An uber young talent at one of the highest positions of need in football...

Nobody thinks a running game is unimportant. (Forget the 32nd-rank run offenses that have gone to the super bowl in recent years). The distinction is that nowadays nearly every single team is RBBC, so it has become unimportant to draft a super-talented bell cow with a high pick when two mid-rounders can combine for the same numbers. How could anyone possibly think that a RB warrants a 1st nowadays?

2slik4u
09-07-2012, 11:23 PM
All it takes is one .... and there are a few who are lacking.


Tampa Bay and Cleveland .... or even a team like the Packers .... man he'd run amuk on a team like that.

Tampa bay just spent a second on Doug Martin and Cleveland just spent a first on Trent Richardson. Green bay doesn't run the ball. I was thinking more like cincy, Miami, Indy, jets?

2slik4u
09-07-2012, 11:31 PM
Tampa bay just spent a second on Doug Martin and Cleveland just spent a first on Trent Richardson. Green bay doesn't run the ball. I was thinking more like cincy, Miami, Indy, jets?

What am I even saying? He's not being traded. He shouldn't be traded. Three things will happen with Ben Tate.

1. He gets extension to say with Texans this year or next
2. He gets completely new deal with us when his rookie contract runs out
Or
3. We let him walk and sign else where at the end of his contract.

I'm not saying Arian or Tate are pure products of the system but remember, its a little easier to have a Rb run in our zone blocking scheme and make them look good...kinda like mike leach and his system qbs. Find certain characteristics in these guys and let them flourish...but for the record, I want Tate to stay.

utahmark
09-08-2012, 12:03 AM
The running back position is overrated in the nfl. Show me a team with a good offensive line and I will show you a good runningback. With our zone blocking scheme running backs or even more overrated. We are already spending way to much money on that position, so I hope we don't resign him.

Bill Belichick has it figured out why can't anyone else?:kitten:

Lucky
09-08-2012, 12:12 AM
Bill Belichick has it figured out why can't anyone else?:kitten:
And by "figured it out", you mean "Have Tom Brady at QB"?

Wasn't the Texans o-line in 2009 pretty much the same unit in 2010 & 2011? And the scheme? I have to give Arian Foster some credit for the Texans moving from 30th to #7, then #2 in rushing.

beerlover
09-08-2012, 12:14 AM
How important is Ben Tate to this team?
If Foster is a 10 then his back-up should be at least a 7 which I feel confident Tate qualifies. They are also worth more together than apart. Scale of 1-10 then he's an 8

Can the Texans keep him long term?
Ben must stay healthy & prove to be a RB a team can ride into the playoffs. If he accomplishes that, then yes.

Would you try to keep him long term? Within salary constraints, yes.

Is there any chance Ben Tate is with the team past next year?
50-50

What would you expect in return from a trade involving Tate?
2nd rounder.


My gut feeling tells me no. Ben Tate is a beast RB, physical @ the line with explosive burst to second level but not a second gear. He can be an excellent back-up to an elite RB like Foster but will yearn to carve his own niche, sooner or later. But doubt this ends in a trade, more like typical walk after contract negotiations fail Texan style.

Rey
09-08-2012, 12:22 AM
Interesting responses. I got the impression that most felt like it was forgone conclusion he'd be traded after the season.

Dutchrudder
09-08-2012, 12:25 AM
I don't want to trade him, so not going to vote.

there :pouts:

I agree, that's why I went with 3rd round. I assume he will get a starting gig somewhere else in free agency, and we will get a 3rd round compensatory pick for him in 2014 :D

I'd like to get something out of him, but he's just so cheap, it's hard to see the Texans trading him next year. I don't think we will have the money to keep him, and I think the money could be wisely spent elsewhere.

utahmark
09-08-2012, 12:38 AM
And by "figured it out", you mean "Have Tom Brady at QB"?

Wasn't the Texans o-line in 2009 pretty much the same unit in 2010 & 2011? And the scheme? I have to give Arian Foster some credit for the Texans moving from 30th to #7, then #2 in rushing.

I give Foster some of the credit but I give more credit to the improvement of the offensive line. In 2009 the offensive line was young and just coming together. Tate averaged 1 ypc more than foster last year. Either we have the best two backs in all of football or our offensive line was pretty damn good last year. How many diff 1000 yard backs did Denver have during Gary's time as offensive coordinator there?

And by "figured it out" I mean "Don't waist cap money on a position you don't have to".

Lucky
09-08-2012, 01:01 AM
And by "figured it out" I mean "Don't waist cap money on a position you don't have to".
The Patriots running game sucks. And that flaw shows in games vs good defenses.

You can't paint every team with the same brush. The Texans rely heavily on their running game. So it's smart to have 2 very good, if not great, RBs. And in my opinion, Tate is one of the top 10 runners in the league (though not the complete RB that Foster is).

Corrosion
09-08-2012, 01:12 AM
The Patriots running game sucks. And that flaw shows in games vs good defenses.

You can't paint every team with the same brush. The Texans rely heavily on their running game. So it's smart to have 2 very good, if not great, RBs. And in my opinion, Tate is one of the top 10 runners in the league (though not the complete RB that Foster is).

I really think so too .... thats why its going to be near impossible to keep them both.


Good teams lose good players .... thats just how the salary cap works.

eriadoc
09-08-2012, 03:15 AM
The team spent a 2nd round pick on him. They spent time coaching and developing him. Getting less than a first rounder would be a waste, IMO. I also agree that it's unlikely a team would give that up, and therefore I say ride him as long as you can. I actually think he's even better than people here give him credit for.

Full disclosure - I wanted Gerhart.

ObsiWan
09-08-2012, 04:18 AM
I don't want to trade him, so not going to vote.

there :pouts:

Yeah...Whut she said.
And just where the heck IS the "I see no logically sane reason to break up our RB tandom for any price" option.

Edit:
The next draft will tip Smithiak's hand with respect to Ben Tate's future with the Texans. If we use a top three pick in the next draft (perhaps in the 2014) on a RB then they are probably preparing for life without Tate. Just my :twocents:

Wolf6151
09-08-2012, 07:06 AM
How important is Ben Tate to this team?

Can the Texans keep him long term?

Would you try to keep him long term?

Is there any chance Ben Tate is with the team past next year?

What would you expect in return from a trade involving Tate?

1. Tate is very important to this team, he's Fosters primary backup and more of a power runner than Foster.
2. No I don't believe the Texans can keep Tate long term. He'll be a FA after the 2013 season and far to expensive to keep.
3. If it were possible financially yes I'd love to keep Tate, but it's just not going to happen, he'll be to expensive once he reaches FA.
4. Slim to none.
5. I expect the Texans to attempt to trade Tate after this season so that hopefully we get something for him and not just allow him to walk.

If traded right now I'd want a 1st round pick, after the season I'd still ask for a 1st but would settle for a very high 2nd and a 3rd.

rmartin65
09-08-2012, 08:06 AM
I would want a first, but would probably do two 2nds. I dont want to trade him, but we are up against the cap as it is, and he is going to demand serious dough, so long as he plays as well as he did last year. I think it is inevitable that he is going to walk, so if there is a trade out there for a first or 2 2s, I think we do it.

utahmark
09-08-2012, 11:31 AM
The Patriots running game sucks. And that flaw shows in games vs good defenses.

You can't paint every team with the same brush. The Texans rely heavily on their running game. So it's smart to have 2 very good, if not great, RBs. And in my opinion, Tate is one of the top 10 runners in the league (though not the complete RB that Foster is).

Maybe i'm wrong but I don't value running backs as much as most. I look at the old Oilers with the great offensive lines they had. They had some great running backs as well but when they went down guys like Allen Pinkett and Gary Brown stepped in and we did'nt miss a beat. Then I look at Denver and I see them and all the different backs that did well in their system. Now we got an undrafted free agent and a second rounder going crazy in our same scheme and make me wonder how good these guys really are. I think they are good nfl backs but I don't think they are irreplaceable.

This year we have a couple of new lineman and I pretty sure we will see Foster and Tate both struggle untill the o-line has some time together.

IDEXAN
09-08-2012, 11:38 AM
Tate is faster, more explosive, and runs harder than Foster. On the other hand he's not the pass-pro blocker and certainly not the pass-receiver that Arian is.
And Ben is 2 years younger than Foster and he's only got one year of wear-and-tear NFL mileage on his frame if one is considering trade value ?

infantrycak
09-08-2012, 11:57 AM
Tate is faster, more explosive, and runs harder than Foster. On the other hand he's not the pass-pro blocker and certainly not the pass-receiver that Arian is.
And Ben is 2 years younger than Foster and he's only got one year of wear-and-tear NFL mileage on his frame if one is considering trade value ?

Wow, and those imbeciles on the Texans staff keep starting Foster.

Allstar
09-08-2012, 01:17 PM
2nd sounds good to me, assuming we would let him walk. A first is simply unrealistic.

infantrycak
09-08-2012, 01:28 PM
2nd sounds good to me, assuming we would let him walk. A first is simply unrealistic.

Supposedly they were offered a 1st for him during the last draft.

Texecutioner
09-08-2012, 01:40 PM
I don't want Tate going anywhere.


And Cak I have never heard anywhere about us being offered a 1st for Tate. Where did you hear that?

Allstar
09-08-2012, 01:46 PM
Supposedly they were offered a 1st for him during the last draft.

I could have sworn we all came to a consensus that the Cleveland rumor was just wild speculation from a unreliable source.

infantrycak
09-08-2012, 02:04 PM
And Cak I have never heard anywhere about us being offered a 1st for Tate. Where did you hear that?

It was shortly after the draft.

I could have sworn we all came to a consensus that the Cleveland rumor was just wild speculation from a unreliable source.

I don't think the source was ever identified so I have no idea of the credibility and don't know how it could be judged.

Rey
09-08-2012, 02:05 PM
I don't know if that Cleveland rumor was true or not, but if it was I might have pulled the trigger.

beerlover
09-08-2012, 03:29 PM
Rumor or just wishful thinking doesn't matter in my mind they were after Weeden the whole time, maybe just trying to throw another team off Weeden scent so he would still be there late in 1st?

paycheck71
09-08-2012, 04:21 PM
Supposedly they were offered a 1st for him during the last draft.

I keep hearing this on this board, but this is the only place I've heard it on. I also seem to remember that at the time I thought it was just what someone on the board thought would be an acceptable offer to accept for Tate, not an acutal offer (from Cleveland, if I remember correctly).

paycheck71
09-08-2012, 04:24 PM
I could have sworn we all came to a consensus that the Cleveland rumor was just wild speculation from a unreliable source.

This is exactly how I remember it.

Thorn
09-08-2012, 04:31 PM
OK, I vote we keep Tate and do our best to resign him. Why give up a good thing?

ObsiWan
09-08-2012, 10:13 PM
Maybe i'm wrong but I don't value running backs as much as most. I look at the old Oilers with the great offensive lines they had. They had some great running backs as well but when they went down guys like Allen Pinkett and Gary Brown stepped in and we did'nt miss a beat. Then I look at Denver and I see them and all the different backs that did well in their system. Now we got an undrafted free agent and a second rounder going crazy in our same scheme and make me wonder how good these guys really are. I think they are good nfl backs but I don't think they are irreplaceable.

This year we have a couple of new lineman and I pretty sure we will see Foster and Tate both struggle untill the o-line has some time together.

You have selective memory. When we didn't have a horse like Mike Rozier to pound the ball we were in trouble in 3rd and short and goal line situations.

...but for the sake of discussion, let's say you're right and RBs are easily replaceable in this system (I don't believe that myself; I think it takes a special kind of back with remarkable vision to excell in this system), who would give us anything more than a 4th for a 2nd string, "system RB"? So why wouldn't Tate stay here with a playoff caliber team rather than try to get paid in what's become a pass happy league that values RBs less and less as the seasons progress??

I think Tate stays here.

Rey
09-08-2012, 10:30 PM
You have selective memory. When we didn't have a horse like Mike Rozier to pound the ball we were in trouble in 3rd and short and goal line situations.

...but for the sake of discussion, let's say you're right and RBs are easily replaceable in this system (I don't believe that myself; I think it takes a special kind of back with remarkable vision to excell in this system), who would give us anything more than a 4th for a 2nd string, "system RB"? So why wouldn't Tate stay here with a playoff caliber team rather than try to get paid in what's become a pass happy league that values RBs less and less as the seasons progress??

I think Tate stays here.

Those are good points.

I think Tate is awesome myself, but I'm just finding it hard to picture him fetching a first round pick. But as others have said, all it takes is one willing team.

The Pencil Neck
09-08-2012, 10:36 PM
The year we drafted Tate, my mantra was that IF we're the running team that we're supposed to be, then we need to place a higher value on that position than other teams. We need to draft RBs early and often. The position has a short shelf life and we need to have a stable of guys that can step up and get it done.

We've got that now.

I want to keep Tate here as long as we can but if we get an offer of a 1st, I can't see how we turn that down. Especially if he's probably leaving after the 2013 season, anyway. I don't want to get into a position like Carolina where they've had to sink a ton of cash into the RB position.

Rey
09-09-2012, 12:06 AM
I'm not a cap expert at all. In fact, I'll readily admit I'm clueless in that area.

But didnt Arian sign a somewhat reasonable contract that would allow us to distribute funds elsewhere?

Seems to me that with rookie contracts going down and hopefully picking late in the first we'd save some money on that end and be able to retain some of our own guys.

Tate still has a couple years left, so maybe with Antonio restructuring and other moves we may have enough money to sign Tate to a reasonable deal?

Maybe I'm totally off base here though.

The Pencil Neck
09-09-2012, 02:16 AM
I'm not a cap expert at all. In fact, I'll readily admit I'm clueless in that area.

<snip>

Maybe I'm totally off base here though.

Personally, I don't follow the cap stuff very closely. That's a part of the game that I don't find interesting.

But...

I don't see how things are going to continue to work using the old approaches to the cap. I think the rules about the cap -- how it grows, how it applies, the penalties, the rookie salaries, etc. -- have been put in place to handcuff the owners/GMs so that going out and giving big, monster contracts to guys is going to be a thing of the past.

I think it's going to be easier to keep your own guys because the cap rules apply to everyone and it's going to dry-up the amount of available money. I think GMs are going to have to make harder decisions about who to keep and who to let go.

It's like it's become more of a zero-sum type of game where there's only a set number of pieces of the pie instead of the ever expanding type of game where there were new pieces of pie added every year.

For example, in the "old" days, a player would sign a big deal to be the highest paid at his position and then a month later, a lesser known guy would get paid for more. And then after a year or two, that "great deal" the top guy got was now more or less mid-level and he's underpaid and holding out.

With the new rules in place, I think the top level guys are going to tend more to be the highest paid at their position for a longer amount of time because teams aren't going to be able to afford to up-the-ante as it were.

BUT.

Like I said, I don't pay much attention to those things. I could be totally and completely wrong. It's happened before.

Corrosion
09-09-2012, 03:21 AM
I'm not a cap expert at all. In fact, I'll readily admit I'm clueless in that area.

But didnt Arian sign a somewhat reasonable contract that would allow us to distribute funds elsewhere?

Seems to me that with rookie contracts going down and hopefully picking late in the first we'd save some money on that end and be able to retain some of our own guys.

Tate still has a couple years left, so maybe with Antonio restructuring and other moves we may have enough money to sign Tate to a reasonable deal?

Maybe I'm totally off base here though.

I really think Tate is a top 10 starting back , a franchise type who can tote it 25 times a game .... and he'll get paid near what Foster got (possibly more , not that he's better).... It only takes one team to offer him that and there is no way the Texans can match it , thats just too much to tie up in one position.


If Tate was willing to take $2-$3m per then it may be possible to find a way to keep him .... I just think he's going to be worth significantly more than that to at least one team.

Thirty two teams in the NFL .... name me 10 backs better than Tate. Even if you can do so , that still leaves 22 teams with inferior players at the position. Someone's gonna pony up big bucks.


Very good post TPN .... I agree.

ObsiWan
09-09-2012, 05:58 AM
I really think Tate is a top 10 starting back , a franchise type who can tote it 25 times a game .... and he'll get paid near what Foster got (possibly more , not that he's better).... It only takes one team to offer him that and there is no way the Texans can match it , thats just too much to tie up in one position.


If Tate was willing to take $2-$3m per then it may be possible to find a way to keep him .... I just think he's going to be worth significantly more than that to at least one team.

Thirty two teams in the NFL .... name me 10 backs better than Tate. Even if you can do so , that still leaves 22 teams with inferior players at the position. Someone's gonna pony up big bucks.

Very good post TPN .... I agree.

I dunno. This is becoming more and more a pass-happy league. The only positions commanding "big bucks" are...
OB - someone you can build your offense around
LT - someone who will reliably protect your franchise QB
OLB/DE - someone who can destroy the other guys franchise QB
CB - someone who can clamp down the other guys deep threat

I guess the question is, assuming you're correct about Tate being the 11th best RB in the NFL, what kind of offense do those 22 other teams run. Would they value Tate enough to pay him "big bucks" as opposed to using that cap space for a LT or shutdown CB or a pass rusher?? Why pay a vet "big bucks" when you can draft a guy to fill that spot. Only a "run first" team like us would do that. And how many teams, in today's NFL are run first like us? You guys can probably name them better than I can but I can only think of Washington, Denver, Oakland, Seattle, and the Jets. Everyone else is either set at RB (Minn., Tenn, Jacksonville, etc.) or runs some flavor of the spread.

It could be that the days of RBs getting significantly large contracts are fading fast. I think Tate's best bet may be to stay right here where he's highly valued.

Thorn
09-09-2012, 06:57 AM
I'm sure Tate will get offered more money to leave than to stay, because he is a very good back. Whether or not he accepts what the Texans offer him because he wants to stay (or if the outside offer isn't that much bigger), is two years away and a lot can happen between now and then. It's to soon to speculate, but my gut feeling is there will be teams willing to pony up and give him the bucks to leave. But maybe Tate will deciede to stay with the two time Super Bowl winning Texans instead. :fingergun:

We've still got this season and next to enjoy him.

rmartin65
09-09-2012, 09:13 AM
We've still got this season and next to enjoy him.

This season, absolutely. However, I think we may deal him at the draft. He would then have only one year left, and we would have to decide if one extra year of Tate (being a backup, mind you) is worth a high pick. A lot may depend on how Grimes looks this season on the PS.

utahmark
09-09-2012, 10:36 AM
You have selective memory. When we didn't have a horse like Mike Rozier to pound the ball we were in trouble in 3rd and short and goal line situations.

...but for the sake of discussion, let's say you're right and RBs are easily replaceable in this system (I don't believe that myself; I think it takes a special kind of back with remarkable vision to excell in this system), who would give us anything more than a 4th for a 2nd string, "system RB"? So why wouldn't Tate stay here with a playoff caliber team rather than try to get paid in what's become a pass happy league that values RBs less and less as the seasons progress??

I think Tate stays here.

It's a business, people play to make money.

Gary Brown ran for 1000 yards in 8 games. We threw the ball a lot in goal line and short yardage situations. Thats what I remember anyway.

No mention of Denver. They are the team we are most like. How do you explain thier running backs success year after year no matter who was in?

thunderkyss
09-09-2012, 09:18 PM
Those are good points.

I think Tate is awesome myself, but I'm just finding it hard to picture him fetching a first round pick. But as others have said, all it takes is one willing team.

I don't know if we can get a 1st for him. But I wouldn't give him up for anything less. What's the point?

thunderkyss
09-09-2012, 09:40 PM
I dunno. This is becoming more and more a pass-happy league.

Y'know, a couple of years ago we had this same discussion. At that time, we decided that we can not exect our offense to score 30 points a game.

IMO, if you don't want to get caught up in that... if you don't have an elite QB, then true workhorse running backs are in demand more now than ever. It just doesn't seem that way, because there really aren't that many elite RBs in the league.

And as far as "this is becoming more of a passing league..." they were saying the same thing back in the days of the "Greatest show on turf" Those Colts, back in the day. The Chargers back then.

Well..... didn't have the number of 4000 & 5000 yard passers we had last year, but you know what I mean.

Rey
09-16-2012, 01:39 PM
Yes please.

HJam72
09-16-2012, 04:26 PM
We won't be able to keep him, but some other young player will step up and play great for not a lot of money, until we have to worry about paying them too--somebody like Lestar Jean or K-Mart.

I think we should try to trade him before he goes on the open market. I really don't think us paying him anything close to what he can get out there is going to work for us under the salary cap, unless something bad happens to Foster, which, thankfully, is unlikely.

PS-if MJD were to leave the Jags, I can see Tate starting for them. He would fit right in.

Pantherstang84
09-16-2012, 05:00 PM
Since this is a Ben Tate thread.

I was loving the Tater Salad in the 2nd half. Tate was ballin with the rock in his hands.

Rey
09-16-2012, 08:26 PM
We need to keep Tate. He's a playmaker.

ckhouston
09-17-2012, 11:25 AM
Tate isnt going anywhere.

Best one-two punch in the league and RB health is always a question.

badboy
09-17-2012, 11:55 AM
Texans are in best possible position with Tate. Under contract for two more years at low $. Qualities that make you want to keep him (big, strong and catches well) are enticing to other teams. First round picks do not cost as much under new CBA. Forsett as a back up and change of pace back is solid. He ran strong against Jags. Grimes should be ready after this season on PS if a Tate trade becomes an option.

Salary cap will keep a new contract lower with Texans or in free agency. Encourages Tate to remain, encourages other teams to trade before 2013 starts to take advantage of $575,000 last contract year.

Keep him this year and see what you can be offered for 2013.

Trail.Blazr
09-17-2012, 12:01 PM
How important is Ben Tate to this team? Very Important! Foster comes out and defenses still have to respect the run. He's a gamer!

Can the Texans keep him long term? Can they? Yes. Will they? doubtful. His price tag should make him a casualty. Too bad. I like him. Follow him on Facebook. He's very interactive with the fan base.

Would you try to keep him long term? As much as I like him, I would not. Too much already invested in Foster. And I believe I could stress Too much, but that's not the focus of this thread.

Is there any chance Ben Tate is with the team past next year? Past the 2013 season, I can't see it, unless, heaven forbid, the dynamics of the backfield were to change unexpectedly. Foster is locked up.

What would you expect in return from a trade involving Tate?
I went with a 3rd. But I honestly wouldn't settle for less than a 2nd. At his salary, he has too much value to trade away... A bird in hand

Texans are fortunate. Tate would be a likely starter on 20+ other teams in the NFL

beerlover
09-17-2012, 12:25 PM
Texans are in best possible position with Tate. Under contract for two more years at low $. Qualities that make you want to keep him (big, strong and catches well) are enticing to other teams. First round picks do not cost as much under new CBA. Forsett as a back up and change of pace back is solid. He ran strong against Jags. Grimes should be ready after this season on PS if a Tate trade becomes an option.

Salary cap will keep a new contract lower with Texans or in free agency. Encourages Tate to remain, encourages other teams to trade before 2013 starts to take advantage of $575,000 last contract year.

Keep him this year and see what you can be offered for 2013.

this ^^^

Trail.Blazr
09-17-2012, 12:43 PM
You have selective memory. When we didn't have a horse like Mike Rozier to pound the ball we were in trouble in 3rd and short and goal line situations.

...but for the sake of discussion, let's say you're right and RBs are easily replaceable in this system (I don't believe that myself; I think it takes a special kind of back with remarkable vision to excell in this system), who would give us anything more than a 4th for a 2nd string, "system RB"? So why wouldn't Tate stay here with a playoff caliber team rather than try to get paid in what's become a pass happy league that values RBs less and less as the seasons progress??

I think Tate stays here.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19705565/texans-rb-ben-tate-not-worried-about-arian-fosters-contract-focused-on-season

I think if you've read this article, you love the fact that Tate is on this team, but should have zero expectation that he's going to settle for getting paid less than top 10 RB money when his contract is up. Enjoy this guy while he's here, but don't rush out and buy a 44 jersey just yet. I can think of a number of teams that would love to get him under contract. I just hope it's not Indy!

The Pencil Neck
09-17-2012, 02:49 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19705565/texans-rb-ben-tate-not-worried-about-arian-fosters-contract-focused-on-season

I think if you've read this article, you love the fact that Tate is on this team, but should have zero expectation that he's going to settle for getting paid less than top 10 RB money when his contract is up. Enjoy this guy while he's here, but don't rush out and buy a 44 jersey just yet. I can think of a number of teams that would love to get him under contract. I just hope it's not Indy!

That's a great reason to trade him or sign him and trade Arian next year. We're probably not going to be able to keep both guys long term (although that would be great) and the last thing we want is for one of these guys to end up in our division.

So trade one of them to the NFC so we only have to see him once every 4 years.

TexansBull
09-17-2012, 08:01 PM
I don't know if we can get a 1st for him. But I wouldn't give him up for anything less. What's the point?

Detroit looked like they could use him.

Titans Sux 72
09-17-2012, 09:41 PM
Texans are fortunate. Tate would be a likely starter on 20+ other teams in the NFL

Yeah and Arian would be a starter on all 32.
Tate is good but Arian is really good.
Arian reads the cut backs way faster than Tate.
You want a clutch play Arian is your man.

Titans Sux 72
09-17-2012, 09:44 PM
The rumor this off season bout a potential Tate trade should have gone down. Would like to see the Texans capitalize on Tates skills this off season with a trade.

Texan_Bill
09-17-2012, 09:55 PM
Nothing less than a first rounder. Then again, I'm hoping the Texans get creative enough to keep him around another few years!!

I know, I know, pretty stupid, huh???

Titans Sux 72
09-17-2012, 10:28 PM
Move up 10 spots in the first round and pick up an extra 2 or 3.

badboy
09-18-2012, 10:57 PM
That's a great reason to trade him or sign him and trade Arian next year. We're probably not going to be able to keep both guys long term (although that would be great) and the last thing we want is for one of these guys to end up in our division.

So trade one of them to the NFC so we only have to see him once every 4 years.I have to look at what I know about each player versus costs. If Foster remains health and starts, Tate will not become a Foster. He will have to go elsewhere to get his bucks. Only possibility is if Foster agrees to rework his deal & Texans use cash to sign Tate.

I just don't see keeping Tate in 2014 at a larger cost than it would to develop a draft pick or a Grimes type. I'd prefer a high draft pick for Tate & keep costs down.

ObsiWan
09-19-2012, 05:19 AM
It's a business, people play to make money.

Gary Brown ran for 1000 yards in 8 games. We threw the ball a lot in goal line and short yardage situations. Thats what I remember anyway.

No mention of Denver. They are the team we are most like. How do you explain thier running backs success year after year no matter who was in?

Alex Gibbs teachings and Kubiak's play calling.
When those guys left Denver went in the tank.

While I get what you're saying, I don't agree that any ole RB can succeed in this system. They have to have good speed, really good vision, decisiveness (no dancing around - see the hole/hit it and GO), and some power. Not every back has that combo of qualities.

ObsiWan
09-19-2012, 05:34 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/19705565/texans-rb-ben-tate-not-worried-about-arian-fosters-contract-focused-on-season

I think if you've read this article, you love the fact that Tate is on this team, but should have zero expectation that he's going to settle for getting paid less than top 10 RB money when his contract is up. Enjoy this guy while he's here, but don't rush out and buy a 44 jersey just yet. I can think of a number of teams that would love to get him under contract. I just hope it's not Indy!

This quote from the article you found is in line with my thinking...
Today's NFL might be as much about the evolution of the passing game as it is the backs-by-committee rushing philosophy, but in the case of the latter, that typically means one high-priced back paired with a young, low-priced alternative. Given limited salary-cap resources, teams aren't willing to allocate big-money contracts to two running backs when a) they're relatively easy to replace and b) there are harder-to-fill positions elsewhere on the roster where said money could be better used.

That's a great reason to trade him or sign him and trade Arian next year. We're probably not going to be able to keep both guys long term (although that would be great) and the last thing we want is for one of these guys to end up in our division.

So trade one of them to the NFC so we only have to see him once every 4 years.

But that same paragraph I picked out also says Tate may well skip town when his contract is up. So I'll concede that's more than a remote possibility. And along that line of thinking, I agree with TPN. Rick Smith should put out some feelers right now and see who's interested in picking Tate up next year. Let them have to deal with re-signing him. Hey... Frank Gore is getting on in years, I think Tate would fit right in the 'Frisco system. Ship him out west. :D

PapaL
09-19-2012, 06:15 AM
This quote from the article you found is in line with my thinking...




But that same paragraph I picked out also says Tate may well skip town when his contract is up. So I'll concede that's more than a remote possibility. And along that line of thinking, I agree with TPN. Rick Smith should put out some feelers right now and see who's interested in picking Tate up next year. Let them have to deal with re-signing him. Hey... Frank Gore is getting on in years, I think Tate would fit right in the 'Frisco system. Ship him out west. :D

What about a team like Carolina? They drafted 2 good young backs and recently extended both of them. Granted neither are at our guys levels but throw in Cam Newton and salary wise it could make for an interesting case.