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View Full Version : Schaub labeled "middle of the pack" (16-20 range)


eriadoc
08-29-2012, 04:31 PM
Gregg Rosenthal ranked the following QBs (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000055891/article/quarterback-power-rankings-rodgers-reigns-supreme?module=HP11_content_stream) ahead of Schaub, in order of tiers:

Rogers, Brady, Brees

Roethlisberger, Newton, PManning

EManning, Cutler, Rivers, Romo, Stafford

Vick, Ryan, Flacco, Luck

He ranked Schaub in the same tier with RG3, Dalton, Palmer, and Freeman.

The1ApplePie
08-29-2012, 04:37 PM
He should probably be up in the vick/flacco tier.

You could maybe even make the argument that he should replace Culter in the one above that.

Pretty accurate rank though.

rolyat93
08-29-2012, 04:38 PM
Gregg Rosenthal ranked the following QBs (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000055891/article/quarterback-power-rankings-rodgers-reigns-supreme?module=HP11_content_stream) ahead of Schaub, in order of tiers:

Rogers, Brady, Brees

Roethlisberger, Newton, PManning

EManning, Cutler, Rivers, Romo, Stafford

Vick, Ryan, Flacco, Luck

He ranked Schaub in the same tier with RG3, Dalton, Palmer, and Freeman.

This dip**** also ranked Cam over Eli, Romo and Rivers.:headhurts:

CloakNNNdagger
08-29-2012, 04:40 PM
http://www.woodenspoon.ws/newcp/ProdImages/343.53.jpg

disaacks3
08-29-2012, 04:43 PM
This dip**** also ranked Cam over Eli, Romo and Rivers.:headhurts:

Yep, Cam in the same category as Manning makes me want to hurl.

eriadoc
08-29-2012, 04:47 PM
Yep, Cam in the same category as Manning makes me want to hurl.

And ahead of Eli Manning.

If it were me, I'd swap Peyton and Eli, since this is a current evaluation and not an All-Time thing. Cam would drop down a tier, probably two. Schaub, Cutler, and Rivers are essentially equal, in my eyes. Cutler and Rivers are perceived as more talented, but they haven't done anything Schaub hasn't, as far as I'm concerned.

Doppelganger
08-29-2012, 04:48 PM
Gregg Rosenthal ranked the following QBs (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000055891/article/quarterback-power-rankings-rodgers-reigns-supreme?module=HP11_content_stream) ahead of Schaub, in order of tiers:

Rogers, Brady, Brees

Roethlisberger, Newton, PManning

EManning, Cutler, Rivers, Romo, Stafford

Vick, Ryan, Flacco, Luck

He ranked Schaub in the same tier with RG3, Dalton, Palmer, and Freeman.

let's take em one tier at a time:

Tier 1: Agreed. Schaub is not on the level of Rogers, Brees, or Brady
Tier 2: Roethlisberger and Manning I agree. Big Ben and Peyton have done it consistently for years at a higher rate than Schaub. Manning I am giving the benefit of the doubt to until the regular season.

Newton is a big disagreement. He had a redhot start but then fell down to earth. Let's see him for a couple of full seasons before we say he is better than Schuab.

Tier 3: EManning: yes. He has made the big throws in the big games. Schaub hasn't as of yet. Cutler: No. Highly overrated gunslinger attitude passer. Throws a bunch of poorly thought out passes. Rivers/Romo. I see them in the same group as Schaub, solid have some issues, but can win with them. Neither,(like Schaub) has thrown the big passes in the big game. Stafford: has had 1 year where he wasn't injured. Let's see if he can put together another one before we put him this high.

Tier 4: Vick. Prior to Philly he was an overrated QB: poor passer great runner. Now he has reformed his passing ability to compliment his running. Problem is he cannot stay healthy. Injury concerns will only increase with age, but I would put him in the Schaub/Rivers/Romo group. Ryan: Hasn't really gotten it done. Has a ton of weapons but stunk it out in the playoffs last year. For now, put him in the Schaub group. Flacco: A QB who takes advantage of a steller running game and Defense. Doesn't have to do much. I would put him in the Schaub group. Luck hasn't done anything.

Tier 5:RG3: See Luck. Dalton: one solid year. Let's see what he can do with more than 1 year under his belt. Palmer: fallen off quite a bit. Freeman: highly overrated. Big arm but not much else.

Here is how I would stack it:

Tier 1: Rogers. Brady, Brees

Tier 2:Roethlisberger, P Manning, E Manning

Tier 3: Schaub, Romo, Rivers, Stafford, Vick, Ryan, Flacco,

Tier 4: Cutler, Freeman, Palmer

Tier Rookie/2nd year: Luck, Newton, RG3, Dalton

Texn4life
08-29-2012, 04:52 PM
He said his evaluation is not based on past performance or results:, but rather "Who would we want as our QB leading a team this year and this year only".

Ok, by that logic I can understand why Schaub would be rated lower than others because of injury concerns. But why the hell is Vick ahead of him then? The same injury concerns are there and Schaub has the ability to move his team more efficiently.

Double Barrel
08-29-2012, 04:55 PM
Gregg Rosenthal ranked the following QBs (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000055891/article/quarterback-power-rankings-rodgers-reigns-supreme?module=HP11_content_stream) ahead of Schaub, in order of tiers:

Rogers, Brady, Brees

Roethlisberger, Newton, PManning

EManning, Cutler, Rivers, Romo, Stafford

Vick, Ryan, Flacco, Luck

He ranked Schaub in the same tier with RG3, Dalton, Palmer, and Freeman.

Eli is one of five QBs in NFL history to have 2 Super Bowl MVPs.

It's a joke that this guy puts Cam over Eli.

After reading that far, I lost all respect for his perspective and chalk it up to the "everyone has one and they all stink" routine.

Luck hasn't even thrown a pass in a regular season game and he's already better than Schaub? yeah, I smell something stinky.

JCTexan
08-29-2012, 05:11 PM
Eli is one of five QBs in NFL history to have 2 Super Bowl MVPs.

It's a joke that this guy puts Cam over Eli.

After reading that far, I lost all respect for his perspective and chalk it up to the "everyone has one and they all stink" routine.

Luck hasn't even thrown a pass in a regular season game and he's already better than Schaub? yeah, I smell something stinky.

This is what I hate about evaluating QB's. Because QB's like Eli and Big Ben have won multiple Super Bowls they will automatically be ranked higher than they otherwise would be. And the opposite is true for QB's like Romo, Stafford, Cutler, Rivers, etc.. The playoffs factor in too much when evaluating the QB play.

Corrosion
08-29-2012, 05:17 PM
Putting Schaub , a guy who is one of 11 QB's in history to throw for 4500+ yards in consecutive seasons below Luck and even with RG3 - two guy's who have never completed a pass in a regular season game .... I cant give this list any credibility.

Señor Stan
08-29-2012, 05:22 PM
here is a top five list of things i hate

5. Slideshows
4. Power Rankings
3. Polls
2. Lists
1. Irony

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-29-2012, 05:28 PM
Gregg Rosenthal ranked the following QBs (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000055891/article/quarterback-power-rankings-rodgers-reigns-supreme?module=HP11_content_stream) ahead of Schaub, in order of tiers:

Rogers, Brady, Brees

Roethlisberger, Newton, PManning

EManning, Cutler, Rivers, Romo, Stafford

Vick, Ryan, Flacco, Luck

He ranked Schaub in the same tier with RG3, Dalton, Palmer, and Freeman.

Newton,Cutler,Romo,Stafford,Vick,Ryan,Flacco,Luck WTF!!!!! Hell no Schaub above those QB'S SMH ridiculous Romo I'm iffy on Could say him and Schaub are in the same class but those other guys No No No No

badboy
08-29-2012, 05:28 PM
here is a top five list of things i hate

5. Slideshows
4. Power Rankings
3. Polls
2. Lists
1. IronyMine:

5. Hemmorhoids
4. Foods that inflame #5
3. Stress that inflame #5
2. People that inflame #5
1. Realizing I'm out of Prep H :hankpalm:

FR0497
08-29-2012, 05:53 PM
Peyton should be tier 1 and I'd take all of tier 3 before I took Newton. I'd also take Schaub before Newton and any of the rookies who have yet to prove ANYTHING in the NFL.

Texecutioner
08-29-2012, 06:30 PM
I've been calling Schaub TOP 10 for the last few years. I'd say that if you made a list though, you could argue that other guys belong over him in the top 10. It's all about perspective really. No way he is out of the top 15 though.

I'm only concerned with RIGHT NOW as far as Schaub goes though, and RIGHT NOW Schaub is looking damn good going into the season. Schaub looks crisp, focused, and as sharp as I have ever seen Schaub look. I'm proud that he our QB.

Double Barrel
08-29-2012, 07:04 PM
This is what I hate about evaluating QB's. Because QB's like Eli and Big Ben have won multiple Super Bowls they will automatically be ranked higher than they otherwise would be. And the opposite is true for QB's like Romo, Stafford, Cutler, Rivers, etc.. The playoffs factor in too much when evaluating the QB play.

lol! Playoff performance is not indicative of quality of QB?

Look, you can stick with your fantasy football stats, but bigger picture analysis should be inclusive of post-season performances, as well.

Eli just got a ring and MVP earlier this year. Yet Cam Newton is already better than him when he has earned nothing?

Playoffs
08-29-2012, 07:29 PM
Gregg Rosenthal ranked the following QBs... (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000055891/article/quarterback-power-rankings-rodgers-reigns-supreme?module=HP11_content_stream)

Greg Rosenthal is a dipsh!t who knows little about football.

Corrosion
08-29-2012, 07:29 PM
lol! Playoff performance is not indicative of quality of QB?

Look, you can stick with your fantasy football stats, but bigger picture analysis should be inclusive of post-season performances, as well.

Eli just got a ring and MVP earlier this year. Yet Cam Newton is already better than him when he has earned nothing?

Nothing but a losing record ..... :bubbles:

eriadoc
08-29-2012, 07:32 PM
This is what I hate about evaluating QB's. Because QB's like Eli and Big Ben have won multiple Super Bowls they will automatically be ranked higher than they otherwise would be. And the opposite is true for QB's like Romo, Stafford, Cutler, Rivers, etc.. The playoffs factor in too much when evaluating the QB play.

It wasn't the case in the old days, but increasingly since 1978 the QB is the most important player on the field. The last decade, the QB is at such a premium that it's probably the #1 indicator of whether or not your team is going to be a winning one. So when a QB has Super Bowl wins, especially in the past decade, it probably means he's really damn good. There are exceptions to any rule, but none of the current QBs that have won SBs are an exception.

Double Barrel
08-29-2012, 07:35 PM
Nothing but a losing record ..... :bubbles:

Sometimes I wonder if some people are more focused on how good a player looks in a football uniform than what he actually does in that uniform.

I'm not saying that Eli is "elite" in this thread, but c'mon, diminishing his accomplishments when he's one of only 5 QBs in NFL history that have two SB MVPs? That's laughable analysis, to put it in respectful terms.

Corrosion
08-29-2012, 07:59 PM
Sometimes I wonder if some people are more focused on how good a player looks in a football uniform than what he actually does in that uniform.

I'm not saying that Eli is "elite" in this thread, but c'mon, diminishing his accomplishments when he's one of only 5 QBs in NFL history that have two SB MVPs? That's laughable analysis, to put it in respectful terms.

I have to wonder if his name wasnt Manning , would he get more respect ....


Who woulda thunk that Eli would have more rings and SB-MVP's than Peyton .... :truck:


Looking at the results , you have to put Eli up there with the elite group .... no two ways around it.

Texan_Bill
08-29-2012, 08:06 PM
I haven't read the article nor people's responses. I just looked at the tiers.

That said, this article has no validity in my mind's eye whenever you rank an unproven, untested rookie ahead and another unproven, untested rookie in the same tier as a guy that through for 9,000 yards over two seasons. And Joe Flacco? Are you kidding me?? A 5th round rookie QB had a chance to beat him in a playoff game at Flacco's yard.. In the words of the immortal Private John Winger, "Cut it out! Cut it out! Cut it out! The hell's the matter with you? Stupid!"

As they would say in that lame BSPN segment, "C'mon Man!!"

Texan_Bill
08-29-2012, 08:11 PM
And if Schaub's injury history played a part, HELLO McFly!! As it turns out Mike Vick isn't the most durable guy out there. Romo?? Hilarious!!!

Another, New York City honk Muff-Hugga!

*EDIT*

Sumbitch must be a Giants fan because if he was a Jets fan, he would ranked Sanchez AND Tebow ahead of Schaub.

/endrant

speedfreek
08-29-2012, 08:15 PM
The guy, for whatever the reason may be, can't stay on the field. Half a season with Schaub is not more valuable than entire season of Flacco, etc.

That's how I could justify middle-of-the-pack

TJ

Lucky
08-29-2012, 08:26 PM
Schaub should be in the Cutler/Romo/Ryan/Flacco level. Very good, but still has ?'s. Luck may be on that level now, but I highly doubt it.

Yep, Cam in the same category as Manning makes me want to hurl.
Cam accounted for 35 TDs and over 4700 yards as a rookie. Stats aren't everything. But Cam should improve in his 2nd year. I think we're looking at a league MVP before long. Peyton still has to prove he's still Peyton.

If it were me, I'd swap Peyton and Eli...
I agree. Peyton has to show he can get back to 80% of his former level. In the games I've watched, I haven't seen it.

here is a top five list of things i hate

5. Slideshows
4. Power Rankings
3. Polls
2. Lists
1. Irony
Oh, sweet Irony.

Texan_Bill
08-29-2012, 08:30 PM
The guy, for whatever the reason may be, can't stay on the field. Half a season with Schaub is not more valuable than entire season of Flacco, etc.

That's how I could justify middle-of-the-pack

TJ

It matters not. The Ravens and Texans were in the same exact spot this past January with a 3rd string QB, OH and BTW Schaub was what, when he went down? 7 - 3? (*ahem* should've been 8-2, thanks Jacoby v. the Raiders). And again, if injuries were a concern, than at the very least Schaub should've been in the same tier as Vick.

Why do I continue to read nonsensical garbage from hack writers during the (sorta) off-season is beyond me!!

:facepalm: Bill!

Texan_Bill
08-29-2012, 08:35 PM
Listen, I don't have Schaub in my top 10 QB's, but I ("where do you slot him? - inside joke) do have him within 10-12(ish). 16-20 is asinine!

JCTexan
08-29-2012, 09:16 PM
lol! Playoff performance is not indicative of quality of QB?

Look, you can stick with your fantasy football stats, but bigger picture analysis should be inclusive of post-season performances, as well.

Eli just got a ring and MVP earlier this year. Yet Cam Newton is already better than him when he has earned nothing?

Oh, I wasn't saying I agreed with the guys rankings at all. Eli is way better than Newton. There is no question of that. I just see QB's like Eli/Big-Ben in a tier to their self when they should be in the same tier as Stafford, Cutler and Rivers.

False Start
08-29-2012, 09:32 PM
And if Schaub's injury history played a part, HELLO McFly!! As it turns out Mike Vick isn't the most durable guy out there. Romo?? Hilarious!!!

Another, New York City honk Muff-Hugga!

*EDIT*

Sumbitch must be a Giants fan because if he was a Jets fan, he would ranked Sanchez AND Tebow ahead of Schaub.

/endrant

:clap:

This dude has no idea what the hell he's talking about. :faildetector:


There are certain articles I will read and take them with a grain of salt if it's negative. Then, there are ones that I read and just shake my head, and quit reading, because the journalist has no idea what the hell he's talking about. This one falls in the latter category.

thunderkyss
08-29-2012, 09:44 PM
lol! Playoff performance is not indicative of quality of QB?

Look, you can stick with your fantasy football stats, but bigger picture analysis should be inclusive of post-season performances, as well.

Eli just got a ring and MVP earlier this year. Yet Cam Newton is already better than him when he has earned nothing?

Take that defense away.... better yet, swap Carolina's defense with New Yorks. We'd all have a different view of these QBs.

Personally, I am not sold on Eli Manning. I don't agree with the MVPs... but who am I?

I also think he's about right on Matt, so far.... give or take.

thunderkyss
08-29-2012, 09:47 PM
It wasn't the case in the old days, but increasingly since 1978 the QB is the most important player on the field. The last decade, the QB is at such a premium that it's probably the #1 indicator of whether or not your team is going to be a winning one. So when a QB has Super Bowl wins, especially in the past decade, it probably means he's really damn good. There are exceptions to any rule, but none of the current QBs that have won SBs are an exception.

Based on the information you just provided, what can we say about Schaub? Think about his two healthy seasons.... What you just wrote puts him squarely in mediocre.

2slik4u
08-29-2012, 10:28 PM
Gregg Rosenthal ranked the following QBs (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000055891/article/quarterback-power-rankings-rodgers-reigns-supreme?module=HP11_content_stream) ahead of Schaub, in order of tiers:

Rogers, Brady, Brees

Roethlisberger, Newton, PManning

EManning, Cutler, Rivers, Romo, Stafford

Vick, Ryan, Flacco, Luck

He ranked Schaub in the same tier with RG3, Dalton, Palmer, and Freeman.

This is comical. He ranks Newton after ONE season and 6 wins total???

The kid has talent but by no means is he in the same company as Pmanning.

Then he ranks Andrew Luck above Schaub? The dude needs to be kicked in the nuts and stripped of whatever liscense he has. Journalism liscense?? Hell I dont know...take his drivers liscense for all I care.

Corrosion
08-30-2012, 12:35 AM
If I had to rank the current QB's .... based upon what they have done at their position it woud look something like the following.



Peyton Manning.

Rogers , Brady , Brees , Eli Manning

Roethlisberger , Flacco , Schaub , Rivers

Cutler , Romo, Stafford , Vick

Ryan , Dalton , Palmer , Freeman , Newton

Luck , RG3

Hookem Horns
08-30-2012, 12:51 AM
lol! Playoff performance is not indicative of quality of QB?

Look, you can stick with your fantasy football stats, but bigger picture analysis should be inclusive of post-season performances, as well.

Eli just got a ring and MVP earlier this year. Yet Cam Newton is already better than him when he has earned nothing?

OK.. thanks for posting this and saving me time.

If playoffs and Super Bowls didn't mean much Warren Moon would always be mentioned up there with Joe Montana, John Elway, etc. However because Warren Moon was a choker that could never get it done when it mattered he will always be remembered as that guy that threw a pretty spiral and could rack up a ton of yards. However never in the same category as those other guys.

Also, that guy's list is a joke. Putting Eli where he put him is a disgrace and putting Andrew Luck (who has never taken an NFL snap when it matters) over Schaub is just as bad.

BTW where is Vince Young on that list??

:kitten:

Goatcheese
08-30-2012, 03:53 AM
How I ranked them at the end of the 2011-2012 season:

Rodgers, Brees, Brady
----------------
Eli, Forehead, Stafford
-------------
Schaub, Rapistburger, Rivers
-------------
Romo, Cutler, Newton
-------------
Ryan, Flacco, Vick

Romo could be higher if he wasn't a choke artist.

TheMatrix31
08-30-2012, 04:08 AM
Schaub is about 9-12th best QB in the league.

kiwitexansfan
08-30-2012, 06:08 AM
10-15 range I'd say.

Could upgrade him, but not easily.

kwayshauntay
08-30-2012, 07:38 AM
How I ranked them at the end of the 2011-2012 season:

Rodgers, Brees, Brady
----------------
Eli, Forehead, Stafford
-------------
Schaub, Rapistburger, Rivers
-------------
Romo, Cutler, Newton
-------------
Ryan, Flacco, Vick

Romo could be higher if he wasn't a choke artist.

Cortland Finnegan, Josh Wilson, Michael Huff, Jabari Greer. Do these names ring a bell?

thunderkyss
08-30-2012, 09:48 AM
Who woulda thunk that Eli would have more rings and SB-MVP's than Peyton .... :truck:



You look at that and the obvious conclusion you come up with is that Eli is "better" than Peyton... or even in the same league? What does that say about Warren Moon, Dan Foust (sp), & Marino??

The Giants have a better team than the Colts... that's all I take from that. As far as MVP goes.. which is an individual award, call me when Eli gets a league MVP. Not as prestigious, I know, but it includes all players... even those that did not qualify for the Super Bowl MVP.

Corrosion
08-30-2012, 10:40 AM
You look at that and the obvious conclusion you come up with is that Eli is "better" than Peyton... or even in the same league? What does that say about Warren Moon, Dan Foust (sp), & Marino??

The Giants have a better team than the Colts... that's all I take from that. As far as MVP goes.. which is an individual award, call me when Eli gets a league MVP. Not as prestigious, I know, but it includes all players... even those that did not qualify for the Super Bowl MVP.

Hell no , Eli isnt as good as Peyton .... I honestly think Peyton Manning is the best QB this league has ever seen. He's taken QB play to a whole nother level .... Man do I hate that guy, only because he doesnt play for my team.

But with two SB-MVP's and two rings .... I'll plug him in with the next tier of QB's which includes Brady , Brees and Rodgers.


My point was more that he gets overshadowed by Peyton more because his name is Manning .... If he was anyone else we wouldnt get near as many comparisons.

The1ApplePie
08-30-2012, 11:11 AM
Cortland Finnegan, Josh Wilson, Michael Huff, Jabari Greer. Do these names ring a bell?

Didn't the all say that if you hit Schaub once, he pretty much gives up?

I know Albert Fatworth has said that many times.

Never really seen anyone but blind Cowboys haters put Schaub over Romo.

Showtime100
08-30-2012, 11:36 AM
IMO, Schaub is the most likely candidate to cost us a SB appearance. I'm not saying much here, but it is what it is.

drs23
08-30-2012, 11:39 AM
I've been calling Schaub TOP 10 for the last few years. I'd say that if you made a list though, you could argue that other guys belong over him in the top 10. It's all about perspective really. No way he is out of the top 15 though.

I'm only concerned with RIGHT NOW as far as Schaub goes though, and RIGHT NOW Schaub is looking damn good going into the season. Schaub looks crisp, focused, and as sharp as I have ever seen Schaub look. I'm proud that he our QB.

Very well said. I agree 100%.

MSR

Playoffs
08-30-2012, 11:44 AM
ProFootballFocus (http://www.profootballfocus.com/) has it's own QB Rating (Signature Stats) that takes into account dropped passes, throw aways, spikes, and yards in the air and further adjusts the old formula so it makes more sense and is a more accurate measure. These are based on regular season only.

2008, at least 50% of snaps
1 Aaron Rodgers 97.11
2 Philip Rivers 95.98
3 Peyton Manning 95.00
4 Matt Ryan 92.95
5 Chad Pennington 92.65
6 Jeff Garcia 91.29
7 Kurt Warner 90.87
8 Matt Schaub 90.25

10 Drew Brees 88.94
11 Jay Cutler 88.51
12 Eli Manning 88.41

14 Tony Romo 86.55

19 Ben Roethlisberger 84.50
2009, at least 50% of snaps
1 Drew Brees 96.89
2 Ben Roethlisberger 95.69
3 Philip Rivers 94.87
4 Brett Favre 94.77
5 Aaron Rodgers 94.62
6 Matt Schaub 92.23
7 Peyton Manning 91.10
8 Eli Manning 88.21
9 Tom Brady 87.95

11 Tony Romo 87.41

2010, at least 50% of snaps
1 Tom Brady 99.17
2 Aaron Rodgers 95.91
3 Michael Vick 93.57
4 Ben Roethlisberger 92.73
5 Philip Rivers 92.13
6 Peyton Manning 91.11
7 Joe Flacco 90.57
8 Drew Brees 90.41
9 Josh Freeman 90.22
10 Matt Schaub 89.31
11 Matt Ryan 88.13

13 Eli Manning 87.58
2011, at least 25%* of snaps
1 Aaron Rodgers 108.77
2 Drew Brees 98.26
3 Tom Brady 93.45
4 Matt Ryan 92.45
5 Matthew Stafford 92.32
6 Tony Romo 92.30
7 Eli Manning 91.82
8 Matt Moore 91.75
9 Matt Schaub 90.65
10 Alex D. Smith 90.07
11 Philip Rivers 89.49
12 Michael Vick 88.03

14 Ben Roethlisberger 85.19
15 Jay Cutler 84.90

22 Cam Newton 81.21
23 Joe Flacco 80.63
*had to drop down to 25% total snaps in 2011 so that Schaub could be included

Showtime100
08-30-2012, 11:46 AM
Doesn't mean anything. Your point?

Double Barrel
08-30-2012, 12:20 PM
Take that defense away.... better yet, swap Carolina's defense with New Yorks. We'd all have a different view of these QBs.

Personally, I am not sold on Eli Manning. I don't agree with the MVPs... but who am I?

I also think he's about right on Matt, so far.... give or take.

We can play "what if" games until we are old and gray. None of it means anything. Heck, we can play that game going back decades. What if Bud Adams hadn't been stuck at a Houston airport and we had the Houston Cowboys? What if? What if? What if? It's all meaningless imaginary nonsense.

I look at reality. And the reality is that Eli has 2 championship MVPs, one of only 5 QBs in NFL history to accomplish this feat. That fact does not make him the best, but since the NFL is not in the habit of handing out those awards like Halloween candy, I'd say that he certainly deserves more respect than many folks are willing to give him.

And freakin' A this doofus writer is making himself look like a fool to put Newton above him. It reeks of an agenda and lacks any logical objectivity.

HOU-TEX
08-30-2012, 12:55 PM
What? He doesn't look like a guy that really knows football? :lol:

He ain't any different than these other self proclaimed analysts that peruse stat lines to come up with worthless ratings and blogs

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/907/850/greggrosenthal_display_image.jpg?1329099453

Bulls on Parade
08-30-2012, 12:56 PM
The bottom line: Schaub versus Romo?

Who is the better quarterback? Don't be bias.

HOU-TEX
08-30-2012, 12:58 PM
The bottom line: Schaub versus Romo?

Who is the better quarterback? Don't be bias.

Same

powda
08-30-2012, 01:03 PM
The bottom line: Schaub versus Romo?

Who is the better quarterback? Don't be bias.

Romo is capable of winning and losing more games. I'll take a more consistent Schaub I'd trust as a coach. Sure, i'm biased ,but i've seen Romo do a lot of incredibly bone headed things over the years.

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2012, 01:33 PM
Doesn't mean anything. Your point?

Seems to indicate that Schaub should be considered in the top 10.

The1ApplePie
08-30-2012, 05:39 PM
Romo is capable of winning and losing more games. I'll take a more consistent Schaub I'd trust as a coach. Sure, i'm biased ,but i've seen Romo do a lot of incredibly bone headed things over the years.

Romo is the better talent, Schaub fits a system better.

They are two different types of QBs. Romo is a Favre-style gunslinger, high-risk, high-reward. Schaub is your classic West-Coast offense QB

Goatcheese
08-30-2012, 05:49 PM
The bottom line: Schaub versus Romo?

Who is the better quarterback? Don't be bias.

Schaub.

Romo does a lot of things really well, but he also Rosencopters his way into losses that should have been locked up. The guy has no feel for the situation he's in and plays just as risky when he's up by 17 as when he's down by 17. His gunslinger mentality has flat out lost games that were already decided and in the record book.

Corrosion
08-30-2012, 07:04 PM
Seems to indicate that Schaub should be considered in the top 10.

I think he's in the conversation for top 10 at the very least.


Romo is the better talent, Schaub fits a system better.

They are two different types of QBs. Romo is a Favre-style gunslinger, high-risk, high-reward. Schaub is your classic West-Coast offense QB

Romo has the better arm , Schaub has the better brain ....

Rey
08-30-2012, 07:17 PM
The bottom line: Schaub versus Romo?

Who is the better quarterback? Don't be bias.

In this offense with kubiak working with him I'd take romo.

Corrosion
08-30-2012, 07:30 PM
In this offense with kubiak working with him I'd take romo.

Man , I know Romo is the better athlete .... just better physically , much better arm and mobility.


But I dont know if you can take the "risk taker" out of him ..... and this offense is all about removing risk and maximizing return. (this may be a factor in their redzone struggles).


Tough call ..... but it isnt a silly thought process by any stretch of the imagination. It could be the perfect marriage .... would be interesting to see.

thunderkyss
08-30-2012, 08:58 PM
Romo is the better talent, Schaub fits a system better.

How do we know this? Have we ever seen Romo in such a QB friendly system as we have here? Or have we seen Schaub in a system where they expect the QB to be a playmaker?



They are two different types of QBs. Romo is a Favre-style gunslinger, high-risk, high-reward. Schaub is your classic West-Coast offense QB

I'd love to see Romo in a system like ours, with a Kubiak (a guy that doesn't expect the QB to do everything) behind him.

Schaub.

Romo does a lot of things really well, but he also Rosencopters his way into losses that should have been locked up. The guy has no feel for the situation he's in and plays just as risky when he's up by 17 as when he's down by 17. His gunslinger mentality has flat out lost games that were already decided and in the record book.

& by the same token Schaub lacks a sense of urgency unless we're down by 17. On 3rd & 3 he'd throw the ball away if we're down by three with 1 minute left in the game.

I'm not going to say Romo is better than Schaub, but I'm not going to pretend Schaub is better than Romo. & as far as Romo throwing away games that were in the bag... if you're talking about last season, they were never in the bag with the way that defense played & their lack of a run game (for the most part). We've seen Schaub throw some doozies in similar situations.

kwayshauntay
08-31-2012, 01:12 AM
The Texans are not built around Matt Schaub. They’re quarterbacked by Schaub, but he doesn’t have the type of tools you build around. Schaub is the consummate “good” quarterback. He’s accurate, smart and moderately athletic. But he doesn’t have a cannon arm (not close) or an innate playmaking prowess when things break down. The longer Schaub holds the ball in the pocket, the less effective he becomes. That’s always a telltale sign of a limited quarterback.

This dose of blunt truth always prompts Texan fans to bring up Schaub’s stats: 4,770 yards and 98.6 passer rating in 2009; 4,370 yards and 92.0 rating in 2010; a rating of 96.8 in 2011. Impressive numbers. But they’re proof that Schaub is a good fit in Gary Kubiak’s system.

Kubiak’s system does not demand a lot of in terms of sheer physical talent. It’s a system that naturally allows the quarterback to be managed. (This is why the Texans were able to survive when fifth-round rookie T.J. Yates took over for the final month and a half last year.) It’s also a system that requires patient decision-making and consistent accuracy, which is why Schaub excels in it.

What the Texans must decide after this season is whether their system is strong enough to ultimately carry them to a Super Bowl. If they feel that it is and they believe Schaub can stay healthy, they’ll re-sign him. If there’s an inkling of doubt, they could find themselves searching for a franchise quarterback.

If any system is good enough to disprove the theory that you need a superstar quarterback to reach the Super Bowl, it’s Kubiak’s. Unlike Jim Harbaugh, who nearly led the 49ers and their “system quarterback” Alex Smith to the Super Bowl last season, Kubiak isn’t trying to go against the grain by orchestrating an old-fashioned power run offense. His scheme is perfectly designed for the increasingly finesse nature of today’s N.F.L.

Yet, it’s a scheme built around the run. Not just the run game itself, but also the threat of the run. Houston’s passing attack stems largely from run elements like play-action, bootlegs and rollouts. This is why so much of the Texans’ passing game takes place out of base personnel (whether it’s two backs and a tight end, two tight ends and a back or an H-back, running back and tight end). The Texans do a marvelous job using presnap motion and tight formation wrinkles to disguise their run/pass intentions and create favorable one-on-one matchups (in blocking and receiving) for fullbacks, H-backs and tight ends.
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/30/houston-texans-2012-n-f-l-season-preview/

infantrycak
08-31-2012, 01:25 AM
The longer Schaub holds the ball in the pocket, the less effective he becomes. That’s always a telltale sign of a limited quarterback.

I'd say Schaub aside these are ignorant statements. What is one of the most common criticisms of QB's? - he hold's the ball too long. That's because the OL can't protect forever and plays aren't designed for them to do so so QB's become less effective as more time passes. Conversely one of Peyton's most complimented traits is getting the ball out fast. When was the last time you heard a commentator talk about how long a QB held onto the ball for so long in the pocket and it wasn't a compliment to the OL rather than the QB?

Corrosion
08-31-2012, 02:19 AM
I'd say Schaub aside these are ignorant statements. What is one of the most common criticisms of QB's? - he hold's the ball too long. That's because the OL can't protect forever and plays aren't designed for them to do so so QB's become less effective as more time passes. Conversely one of Peyton's most complimented traits is getting the ball out fast. When was the last time you heard a commentator talk about how long a QB held onto the ball for so long in the pocket and it wasn't a compliment to the OL rather than the QB?

Rothlesburger running for his life behind that horrible OL ?? Other than that , I got nuttin.

thunderkyss
08-31-2012, 02:36 AM
I'd say Schaub aside these are ignorant statements. What is one of the most common criticisms of QB's? - he hold's the ball too long. That's because the OL can't protect forever and plays aren't designed for them to do so so QB's become less effective as more time passes. Conversely one of Peyton's most complimented traits is getting the ball out fast. When was the last time you heard a commentator talk about how long a QB held onto the ball for so long in the pocket and it wasn't a compliment to the OL rather than the QB?


I'm going to preface this by saying Schaub has looked better this preseason than I've ever seen him, 7 years in this system might be magic........ that said,


Protection is going to break down. No matter how good the OL is, the DLs are usually made of some pretty good guys too. What the guy is saying, is if the DL is successful, or if the secondary is successful, if Schaub is your QB, the play is over. Where a Romo, Rogers, Rothlisberger, or even a Tom Brady could make something out of nothing more times than not.

Peyton was limited in that respect as well. But where he excelled, was that he was so far ahead of most defenses, he was nigh unstoppable at times.... a lot of times.... damn near all the time. Schaub doesn't have that either, so he's

limited. If the play doesn't unfold exactly the way Schaub/Kubiak envisioned it, chances are less likely that we will be successful (other than the fact that our big 3; Aj, Arian, & OD can get yac in a hurry) than if we had a QB without Schaub's limitations.

infantrycak
08-31-2012, 03:49 AM
Rothlesburger running for his life behind that horrible OL ?? Other than that , I got nuttin.

[SIZE="1"]Protection is going to break down. No matter how good the OL is,

That is why I used the same language as the author who specified in the pocket. Sure there are guys who can buy time with their feet much better than Schaub once the pocket breaks down. You get 4 sec. with a clean pocket in the NFL and the commentators are going wow look at the time the OL is giving him not damn that QB sure can hang in there in a clean pocket.

NitroGSXR
08-31-2012, 05:16 AM
Schaub bounces back far better than Romo.

What makes Schaub fantastic is his crazy ability with the play action roll out. Nobody does the fake better and that's got nothing to do with the system. When he buys time, he buys it in truckloads. Those of you who sit close to the field really need to look at Schaub's face and general body language. He droops you cold. That's his game.

Corrosion
08-31-2012, 09:40 AM
That is why I used the same language as the author who specified in the pocket. Sure there are guys who can buy time with their feet much better than Schaub once the pocket breaks down. You get 4 sec. with a clean pocket in the NFL and the commentators are going wow look at the time the OL is giving him not damn that QB sure can hang in there in a clean pocket.

Cant dispute the facts.


Something I noticed during the Aints game was how well their OL funneled defenders backside of the play , always allows for Brees to step up in the pocket or squirt away.

They were able to keep Brees clean against the Texans #1's .... even with a vanilla scheme , thats a tall order.

The Texans schemes on those longer developing plays protect both the QB and the OL from that by the use of such heavy play action. This scheme may make the OL look better in pass protection than they really are.



Schaub bounces back far better than Romo.

What makes Schaub fantastic is his crazy ability with the play action roll out. Nobody does the fake better and that's got nothing to do with the system. When he buys time, he buys it in truckloads. Those of you who sit close to the field really need to look at Schaub's face and general body language. He droops you cold. That's his game.

Some of us have been talking about Schaubs play action and Gary's play design ..... for a long while. (Me & Cak)

NitroGSXR
08-31-2012, 12:59 PM
Cant dispute the facts.


Something I noticed during the Aints game was how well their OL funneled defenders backside of the play , always allows for Brees to step up in the pocket or squirt away.

They were able to keep Brees clean against the Texans #1's .... even with a vanilla scheme , thats a tall order.

The Texans schemes on those longer developing plays protect both the QB and the OL from that by the use of such heavy play action. This scheme may make the OL look better in pass protection than they really are.





Some of us have been talking about Schaubs play action and Gary's play design ..... for a long while. (Me & Cak)
I'm aware that you and infantry have been advocates of Schaub as well as I have been too. I still want you guys to watch his face and body language. I will probably sound like I have a tinfoil hat on but... I swear... Schaub times his fake down to the second the defender has his step coming up from the ground. What this means is that Schaub's already going the other way while the defender is trying to put the brakes on. When you see it happen time again and again... it's like... WOW! That's uncanny timing talent right there.

b0ng
08-31-2012, 01:25 PM
To me this is one of those type of articles where if Schaub didn't get hurt last year we wouldn't be talking about it because he'd be ranked way higher. When Schaub plays a whole season, pundits talk about him being very close to elite. When he gets injured pundits talk about him being middle of the road. Schaub has his flaws and his strengths, but I think he fits what the Texans need from the QB very well.

The1ApplePie
08-31-2012, 01:39 PM
Man , I know Romo is the better athlete .... just better physically , much better arm and mobility.


But I dont know if you can take the "risk taker" out of him ..... and this offense is all about removing risk and maximizing return. (this may be a factor in their redzone struggles).


Tough call ..... but it isnt a silly thought process by any stretch of the imagination. It could be the perfect marriage .... would be interesting to see.

Romo to AJ would be a thing of beauty.

Romo, basically being a Favre clone, would fit in most systems. You will never remove the risk taking though. He's gonna throw a boneheaded pick or two. He might also pull a 50-yard gain out of his ass when the play totally breaks down.

I'm not sure how Kubes would deal with a QB like Romo though, who goes outside the gameplan on occasion. He did try Rex "**** it I'm going deep!" Grossman. So did Shanny.

If I'm playing with a lead, I want Schaub.
If I'm down two scores in the 4th, I'll take Romo.

Ideally you would want their bastard love child: Eli Manning

drs23
08-31-2012, 01:54 PM
I'm going to preface this by saying Schaub has looked better this preseason than I've ever seen him, 7 years in this system might be magic........ that said,

I've got to agree. Matt has looked really sharp after "shaking the rust off" during the first week or so of camp. He seems to be quicker and more decisive making his reads and getting the ball out and on target. Also haven't seen any negative affects of his Lisfrank injury that we were all concerned about. I don't see him favoring his plant foot at all. Now if the receivers will catch the damn ball, and I think they will I think the prize is well within reason.

:gotexans1