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View Full Version : REPORT: Keenum vs. Beck, Thur. night, to win the QB3 job


GP
08-29-2012, 11:09 AM
LINK HERE. (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/08/keenum-vying-for-texans-final-qb-spot/) Also, Norris and Posey (according to Posey) will play Thursday night and be under serious scrutiny for roster spots on the 53.

Gary Kubiak said Tuesday that only John Beck and rookie Case Keenum will see action at quarterback in the Texans’ final preseason game against Minnesota on Thursday night as he tries to decide whom to keep as the third QB behind Matt Schaub and T. J. Yates.

Beck will start and play the first half. Keenum will play the third and fourth quarters. The Texans have to cut their roster to 53 players on Friday.

Because Keenum is a rookie, the former University of Houston star could be released then re-signed to the team’s practice squad next week. But he’d have to clear waivers first.


Quotes on Norris/Posey:

Rookie receiver DeVier Posey and veteran fullback Moran Norris will see significant playing time against the Vikings.
Posey has been slowed by a sore calf muscle.

As for Norris, who’s trying to stick with the Texans for a second time after spending three seasons with the franchise from 2002 through 2005, coach Gary Kubiak said: “It’s a big game for him because we’re trying to make a decision.

The Pencil Neck
08-29-2012, 12:42 PM
I think we're definitely going with 3 QBs on the 53. I think the 3rd spot belongs to Beck right now because of his experience. It's up to Keenum to play his way onto the 53 at this point. I think he can do it, but he's got to have a huge game to do it.

I don't think Posey's spot is really in jeopardy.

Norris, otoh, has to have a big game. He doesn't have to put up big numbers but he's got to be a force in the running game. He's got to make the right reads and get some good blocks. He needs to show up in the passing game: in his blitz pickups but also getting to the right spot as an outlet receiver (even if he doesn't get targeted.)

I think this is a big game for Brock and Supernaw and I think Brock has the advantage at this point. I think Kubes would like for one of these guys to make the squad but they've got to play their way on.

I think this is a big game for Holiday. He can't have any fumbles or muffs. If he does, then K-Mart, Keo, and Manning will be our returners in the regular season.

Fangupo needs a huge game. Otherwise, I think we're going Cody and Mitchell as our NTs with Crick kicking inside on occasion.

Shelley Smith needs to show up strong or he's out.

Those are the guys I'll be watching in this game because those are the guys I think have something on the line.

gary
08-29-2012, 01:33 PM
I'll be watching Keenum and Posey who should be good if he stays healthy and plays hard.

Ole Miss Texan
08-29-2012, 01:38 PM
I have a question about trying to stash some guys on the practice squad. If we release Keenum he has to clear waivers and then we can sign him to the PS. However, if another team wants to sign him, it would have to be on their 53 man roster, correct? In that event, would the Texans have the ability to have "first rights" to keep Keenum but it'd have to be on the 53?

I think most would agree that Keenum is in more of our long term plans than Beck. However is Beck is marginally better than Case right now I see the positives in keeping Keenum on the PS. But if another team calls him to make their squad, then maybe Kubiak can say "I can't lose this kid, let's take the risk and keep him on the 53, release Beck altogether"

Not sure if a coach would think like that though or if that's possible. Thoughts?

Malloy
08-29-2012, 01:51 PM
Not too worried about someone picking up Case. He's an unproved QB with potential, but there are quite a few of those players. Most teams have already been through a couple of these players this pre season, so my guess is that IF you're keeping someone on their PS, it's the player who knows the playbook and the player they can throw in a game if all hell breaks loose.

speedfreek
08-29-2012, 02:03 PM
The big question that I'm wondering is this:

If they cut Keenum in an effort to put him on the practice squad, and some other team takes him. Does Keenum have the right to deny and stay with the Texans (if, for example he thinks Kubiak is a better QB mentor) or is it like the draft where he can only play for the team that offered?

Cause I think Case sticks around here if offered a practice squad position --- if it is an option.

Houston has been good to him..

TJ

The Pencil Neck
08-29-2012, 02:06 PM
I have a question about trying to stash some guys on the practice squad. If we release Keenum he has to clear waivers and then we can sign him to the PS. However, if another team wants to sign him, it would have to be on their 53 man roster, correct? In that event, would the Texans have the ability to have "first rights" to keep Keenum but it'd have to be on the 53?

I think most would agree that Keenum is in more of our long term plans than Beck. However is Beck is marginally better than Case right now I see the positives in keeping Keenum on the PS. But if another team calls him to make their squad, then maybe Kubiak can say "I can't lose this kid, let's take the risk and keep him on the 53, release Beck altogether"

Not sure if a coach would think like that though or if that's possible. Thoughts?

I'd never really thought about it.

Once we waive him, we basically lose the rights to him. I was under the impression that if we sign him to our practice squad, if someone then signs him to their 53, we don't get a chance to counter-offer (to the best of my knowledge). But I wonder if the agent could contact the Texans and say, "Hey, these guys are about to sign us. Do you want to get in first?"

Dutchrudder
08-29-2012, 02:09 PM
The big question that I'm wondering is this:

If they cut Keenum in an effort to put him on the practice squad, and some other team takes him. Does Keenum have the right to deny and stay with the Texans (if, for example he thinks Kubiak is a better QB mentor) or is it like the draft where he can only play for the team that offered?

Cause I think Case sticks around here if offered a practice squad position --- if it is an option.

Houston has been good to him..

TJ

Waivers do work like the draft, in that a claim by a team means they have the rights to that player. The player could whine and moan about not wanting to go to X city or X team, etc, but that team still owns his contract and they can do whatever they want with it.

Once the player (any player, team doesn't matter) clears waivers, they are free to sign with any team they want either as part of their 53 man squad or practice squad (assuming they have eligibility). All p-squad players make $5,700 a week, so there is no way to outbid another team for a p-squad player, except by giving him a 53 man roster spot.

ChampionTexan
08-29-2012, 02:34 PM
I have a question about trying to stash some guys on the practice squad. If we release Keenum he has to clear waivers and then we can sign him to the PS. However, if another team wants to sign him, it would have to be on their 53 man roster, correct? In that event, would the Texans have the ability to have "first rights" to keep Keenum but it'd have to be on the 53?

I think most would agree that Keenum is in more of our long term plans than Beck. However is Beck is marginally better than Case right now I see the positives in keeping Keenum on the PS. But if another team calls him to make their squad, then maybe Kubiak can say "I can't lose this kid, let's take the risk and keep him on the 53, release Beck altogether"

Not sure if a coach would think like that though or if that's possible. Thoughts?

If your asking if a team can recall waivers on a player similar to baseball, no they can't. They might be able to actually put in a claim on a player they've just waived (not certain), but not only would they be at the mercy of all the NFL teams ahead of them in the waiver claim order, they would be the stupidest team in the history of the NFL.

speedfreek
08-29-2012, 03:01 PM
If that's correct, then there's no way you let Case get to the PS. He will be picked up. He declined other offers to sign with the Texans as a FA. And, as has been mentioned before, Case still has unproven potential. Beck is who he is..

TJ

ChampionTexan
08-29-2012, 03:33 PM
If that's correct, then there's no way you let Case get to the PS. He will be picked up. He declined other offers to sign with the Texans as a FA. And, as has been mentioned before, Case still has unproven potential. Beck is who he is..

TJ

He declined offers to be on a 90 man training camp roster. Claiming him off of waivers means you put him on the 53 man active roster.

As far as that unproven potential, it is as unproven going into tonight's game as it was in April when all 32 teams chose to pass on him numerous times - just as they will again if he's put on waivers.

LikeMike
08-29-2012, 04:31 PM
Agreed. I don't think any team will want un undrafted rookie that couldn't be with them all training camp to be part of their 53 man roster. He can't really help them the first year without knowing the play book and the receivers so that gamble is just way too big. If the Texans want to stash him on the PS they almost certainly will be able to.

But it doesn't matter who will be our 3 QB... Those guys never actually play when it counts, do they :tease:

eriadoc
08-29-2012, 04:33 PM
Does anyone think Beck will be picked up if he's cut?

ChampionTexan
08-29-2012, 04:34 PM
Does anyone think Beck will be picked up if he's cut?

I don't.

eriadoc
08-29-2012, 04:44 PM
I don't.

I don't either. So to me, if a QB goes down, you have to go out and sign someone anyway. If you think Keenum fits into your long term development plans, or at least want another year to coach him up, you keep him and cut Beck. Beck or someone like him will be available if you lose a QB, and you'll still have Keenum.

Keenum needs to show something though. I wish they'd play him in the first half and play Beck in the second half. That indicates to me they're leaning Beck.

ChampionTexan
08-29-2012, 04:53 PM
I don't either. So to me, if a QB goes down, you have to go out and sign someone anyway. If you think Keenum fits into your long term development plans, or at least want another year to coach him up, you keep him and cut Beck. Beck or someone like him will be available if you lose a QB, and you'll still have Keenum.

Keenum needs to show something though. I wish they'd play him in the first half and play Beck in the second half. That indicates to me they're leaning Beck.

I don't think it's out of the question that they keep Case - Beck is my guess as to who I think it will be (prior to the final preseason game), but I certainly don't see it as an absolute. I do see Case making it through waivers unclaimed (if waived of course) as absolute, and that's all I said.

Now with that in mind, the reason my guess is that they keep Beck is because I believe Beck will be able to help them more in the 2012 season if the need arises. I also think it's very clear that Case has more Long-term upside than Beck. To me, Case is why the practice squad exists - keep the guy that can help you more this season, and develop the guy who might be able to help you more next season, and more seasons after that.

In my mind, Beck on the roster and Case on the PS is the NFL equivalent of having your cake and eating it too.

ChampionTexan
08-29-2012, 05:01 PM
I probably should have added that if one of them is gonna get picked up, I think it's more likely to be Beck.

Beck's been in the league for 6 years, and the Texans are his 4th team. While on the surface, that sounds horrible, what it means to me is that there's lots of coaches out there who have watched him practice, and gotten to know him to some degree. As much as the NFL coaching fraternity seems to value familiarity, I think that gives Beck the advantage when it comes to who's more likely to get picked up between him and Case.

GP
08-29-2012, 06:04 PM
Keenum needs to show something though. I wish they'd play him in the first half and play Beck in the second half. That indicates to me they're leaning Beck.

I thought that same thing, but here's good news for those rooting for Case:

Case, by virtue of playing in the second half, SHOULD have an easier go of things out there...at that point in the game, Case is playing almost exclusively against 3rd stringers. Downside: He's probably playing WITH 3rd stringers, and those guys are going to be sloppy toward the end of the game because they are who they are: Sloppy, unproven 3rd/4th stringers.

In other news, I think Shelley Smith is a goner no matter what. I think Kubiak will look at the body of work and just cut the guy on Friday.

Norris has to make key blocks and show consistency of full effort and good identification of which block to make...or I could see Kubiak cutting Norris and just running Casey as the FB and saying to hell with trying to have a full-time, bonafide fullback out there. I think Kubiak is a bit disappointed with the FB situation, he has to be, IMO. Lost Leach, Vickers was a major bust, and now Norris is sort of snoozing his way through camp.

Posey, I think, is on the bubble. He looks a bit sleepy out there, too. He and Case need to connect and put on a show. But with the OL they'll have to work with, I don't think it bodes well for both Case and Posey. IMO.

Grimes outta' get major play in this game. I think this is where he outshines Forsett and passes him on that last lap to the finish line.

Holliday will get cut if he has a bad game. I can feel it in my bones, he's not a lock for the 53...and that's because he's bumbled a few times in the previous game. Kubiak needs stability there, and Holliday has to have error-free returns. Ball security has to be the key focus of Holliday now, rather than trying to hit home runs. He showed he can hit a home run. He has to show he can field and MAINTAIN possession on the small to medium returns. Correct? Otherwise, I'm with PN when he says Kubiak will not hesitate to cut the guy.

I don't think any of the TEs make the 53. Brock nor Supernaw. It's going to be OD, Graham, and Casey. Unless there is just some huge breakout performance by Brock or Supernaw.

Mysteries to watch and solve:

1. QB3: Beck or Case???

2. RB3: Grimes or Forsett?

3. Posey?

4. TE: Brock, Supernaw, or neither of them?

5. Norris?

6. Holliday's return game

7. Will the punter and kicker perform consistently enough to make Kubiak comfortable with them both...or does he cut and re-sign like he did to the two punters Maynard and Hartmann last preseason after 4th game? Graham's job, and the punter's job too, are not safe yet.

CloakNNNdagger
08-29-2012, 06:36 PM
I'll have to say that Graham is pretty set with Bullock not an option to return. Our punter, with his performance (also as holder) here thus far and his overall long-term pretty darn consistent NFL stats is unlikely to blow his spot, even if his foot falls off this game.........as long as it can be re-attached before the 1st regular season game.

Also, especially is Beck looks like he is playing for the other team this week, I would not be shocked at all that we get a last minute Kubiak decision to keep Keenum, even knowing the potential risks involved.

GP
08-29-2012, 06:38 PM
I'll have to say that Graham is pretty set with Bullock not an option to return. Our punter, with his performance (also as holder) here thus far and his overall ong-term pretty darn consistent NFL stats is unlikely to blow his spot, even if his foot falls off this game.........as long as it can be re-attached before the 1st regular season game.

Also, especially is Beck looks like he is playing for the other team this week, I would not be shocked at all that we get a last minute Kubiak decision to keep Keenum, even knowing the potential risks involved.

Oops, I did forget that Bullock is I.R.'d so scratch it off my list. Thanks for reminding me. Been a long, long day today.

76Texan
08-29-2012, 07:23 PM
It doesn't matter that Keenum will be playing with scrubs.

The stats are not as important as how he run the offense and how he handle pressure.

He needs to show that he belongs out there.

The Vikings scrubs had allowed only 2 FGs against the Niners, Bills, and Chargers combined (that's how many points the Vikings gave up in the 4th quarter.)

The Vikings gave up just one TD in the second half against those 3 teams.
It will be a good test for Keenum.

b0ng
08-29-2012, 07:28 PM
If that's correct, then there's no way you let Case get to the PS. He will be picked up. He declined other offers to sign with the Texans as a FA. And, as has been mentioned before, Case still has unproven potential. Beck is who he is..

TJ

He might, but it's not nearly as a foregone conclusion as you make it out to be.

CloakNNNdagger
08-29-2012, 07:42 PM
It doesn't matter that Keenum will be playing with scrubs.

The stats are not as important as how he run the offense and how he handle pressure.

He needs to show that he belongs out there.

The Vikings scrubs had allowed only 2 FGs against the Niners, Bills, and Chargers combined (that's how many points the Vikings gave up in the 4th quarter.)

The Vikings gave up just one TD in the second half against those 3 teams.
It will be a good test for Keenum.

Totally agree. That's why I believe Keenum has a great chance for a surprise Kubiak pick.

speedfreek
08-29-2012, 08:11 PM
The guy had other offers, and is the most accomplished college QB in the history of the NCAA. Every measureable he had in the combine (except height and long jump) were better than Yates.

You're telling me that he is less valuable than Beck and no one else takes a risk? I disagree..

I can easily see a team sign him for pennies on the dollar (vs. drafting him) and offering him a 1 year (very low risk) deal to see if he can pick up their system.

TJ

He might, but it's not nearly as a foregone conclusion as you make it out to be.

ThaJokaa
08-29-2012, 08:31 PM
Im pretty sure Case gets QB3 just cuz he's from TX and Kubes like projects. Beck is 31?

SteveSlaton20
08-29-2012, 08:48 PM
Beck > Case
Forsett > Grimes
Posey will not be cut IMO, even if he doesn't have a good game.
Norris should make the team. Don't think I've seen him since the Panthers game tho.

jtexas
08-29-2012, 09:15 PM
Keep 2 QBs, it is extremely rare you get to the 3rd QB in a season. Don't waste a roster spot for a small upgrade over a FA.

False Start
08-29-2012, 09:36 PM
Wow, this will actually make the fourth preseason game interesting. I really want to see Kenum, and Posey. I'm really interested in Posey, I want to see if dude is worth the third round pick.

CloakNNNdagger
08-29-2012, 09:44 PM
Keep 2 QBs, it is extremely rare you get to the 3rd QB in a season. Don't waste a roster spot for a small upgrade over a FA.

The Eagles are definitely keeping 3 QBs, with some recent rumblings by Reid of possibly even 4.

TexanSam
08-29-2012, 09:47 PM
Keep 2 QBs, it is extremely rare you get to the 3rd QB in a season. Don't waste a roster spot for a small upgrade over a FA.

Well, it happened to us last year...

Speedy
08-30-2012, 12:08 AM
Keep 2 QBs, it is extremely rare you get to the 3rd QB in a season. Don't waste a roster spot for a small upgrade over a FA.

I don't think it's that rare any more. Only 15 of 32 starting QBs played every game last season (including Rodgers who sat out the last game and could have played). That's not even half the league where the 3rd stringer is just one play away from playing.

10 teams used a 3rd QB last season.

Thorn
08-30-2012, 08:10 AM
Well, I'll be rooting for Case. 'Cause I'm a Houston home town homer.

So what? :lol:

SAMURAITEXAN
08-30-2012, 11:45 AM
Come on Case, you can do it!!!

Go Case!!!
Go Texans!!!

b0ng
08-30-2012, 11:47 AM
The guy had other offers, and is the most accomplished college QB in the history of the NCAA. Every measureable he had in the combine (except height and long jump) were better than Yates.

You're telling me that he is less valuable than Beck and no one else takes a risk? I disagree..

I can easily see a team sign him for pennies on the dollar (vs. drafting him) and offering him a 1 year (very low risk) deal to see if he can pick up their system.

TJ

It doesn't really matter if he had offers from other teams to be a UDFA on a 90 man roster. His college credentials obviously didn't mean that much to NFL front offices as nobody even took a 7th round flyer on him. On top of that he hasn't really played that much in the pre season, and nobody is going to scoop him up to put him on the 53. Nobody is probably going to take John Beck either, but he has actually thrown footballs in regular season games, and Keenum's value has little to do with John Beck as it is.

Drafting him in the 7th round costs really nothing in terms of the salary cap but the roster space he would take up would be much more valuable to a team. He has a better chance of making it onto the Texans practice squad if we waive him Friday, than he does making it onto another NFL teams 53-man roster.

gwallaia
08-30-2012, 11:47 AM
You know me. I'm a Coog and a Case fan!

Come on Case!

rmartin65
08-30-2012, 11:56 AM
It doesn't really matter if he had offers from other teams to be a UDFA on a 90 man roster. His college credentials obviously didn't mean that much to NFL front offices as nobody even took a 7th round flyer on him. On top of that he hasn't really played that much in the pre season, and nobody is going to scoop him up to put him on the 53. Nobody is probably going to take John Beck either, but he has actually thrown footballs in regular season games, and Keenum's value has little to do with John Beck as it is.

Drafting him in the 7th round costs really nothing in terms of the salary cap but the roster space he would take up would be much more valuable to a team. He has a better chance of making it onto the Texans practice squad if we waive him Friday, than he does making it onto another NFL teams 53-man roster.

Yep... must spread the reps.

Keenum went undrafted just a few short months ago, and has only thrown 6 passes to show the other 31 teams that they made a mistake. 6.

Scooter
08-30-2012, 12:03 PM
i'd like to see us keep case on the 53 and drop beck. sure we dont know what he brings as a pro, but on the other hand we already know what beck is capable of ...

Bulls on Parade
08-30-2012, 12:53 PM
This is Case Keenum's night to shine. I expect him to come out guns blazin' as soon as he enters the game. Just let it rip young man. Pretend you're throwing 50-yard TDs at U of H. The Vikings depth at secondary isn't great so he shouldn't have much trouble putting on a show. I've got my popcorn ready.

CloakNNNdagger
08-30-2012, 02:15 PM
This is Case Keenum's night to shine. I expect him to come out guns blazin' as soon as he enters the game. Just let it rip young man. Pretend you're throwing 50-yard TDs at U of H. The Vikings depth at secondary isn't great so he shouldn't have much trouble putting on a show. I've got my popcorn ready.


Everybody needs to keep keeping in mind that Kubiak, not Keenum, will be calling the plays, and Kubiak may be looking for lots more than surface candy.....for things that the average fan does not appreciate when evaluating his performance. With that said, I hope that by games end he gives Kubiak a belly ache from too much candy, and we fans hoarse voices.

GP
08-30-2012, 02:20 PM
It'll either be good, or it'll be bad.

Spread offense QBs (Chase Daniel, Drew Brees, Brandon Weedum, Graham Harrell, Kevin Kolb, Case Keenum) they either translate to the NFL or they don't.

I think Beck will be the QB3 when the dust settles. Case to the PS, then see what he can do next camp. That's my most recent prediction. Will be interesting to see how it plays out tonight and on Friday when cuts are announced.

Obviously I'd love for Keenum to win the job. But he has to earn it. And I just think he's not there yet. Close, but not yet.

The Pencil Neck
08-30-2012, 04:32 PM
It'll either be good, or it'll be bad.

Spread offense QBs (Chase Daniel, Drew Brees, Brandon Weedum, Graham Harrell, Kevin Kolb, Case Keenum) they either translate to the NFL or they don't.

I think Beck will be the QB3 when the dust settles. Case to the PS, then see what he can do next camp. That's my most recent prediction. Will be interesting to see how it plays out tonight and on Friday when cuts are announced.

Obviously I'd love for Keenum to win the job. But he has to earn it. And I just think he's not there yet. Close, but not yet.

This is what I've been saying for a while now.

I think Beck is the QB3 if we were to start the season right now. I think that Kubes is going to want an experienced guy he can trust a little bit in that QB3 spot. And by "a little bit", I mean he's not going to expect the guy to do a lot.

And after last year, I don't think he wants to go without a QB3.

So that means Beck.

But if Case comes out and shows some masterful control of the offense, Beck is gone. "Masterful control" doesn't mean making a bunch of passes for big plays. "Masterful control" doesn't mean dazzling us by doing stuff after the plays break down. "Masterful control" means making the right reads and audibles to get us into the right plays and throwing to the correct receivers in his reads.

So Case doesn't have to light it up and set the world on fire to become the QB3. He just has to look like a really good vet who can outplay Beck within the system of the offense.

I don't expect Case to do that.

76Texan
08-30-2012, 04:38 PM
If Russel Wilson can be a starter for the Seahawks, Keenum can be the #3 QB for the Texans - if he performed up to par, that is.

Rey
08-30-2012, 06:14 PM
This is what I've been saying for a while now.

I think Beck is the QB3 if we were to start the season right now. I think that Kubes is going to want an experienced guy he can trust a little bit in that QB3 spot. And by "a little bit", I mean he's not going to expect the guy to do a lot.

And after last year, I don't think he wants to go without a QB3.

So that means Beck.

But if Case comes out and shows some masterful control of the offense, Beck is gone. "Masterful control" doesn't mean making a bunch of passes for big plays. "Masterful control" doesn't mean dazzling us by doing stuff after the plays break down. "Masterful control" means making the right reads and audibles to get us into the right plays and throwing to the correct receivers in his reads.

So Case doesn't have to light it up and set the world on fire to become the QB3. He just has to look like a really good vet who can outplay Beck within the system of the offense.

I don't expect Case to do that.

I think I disagree with all of that.

I think kubiak wants to keep case no matter what, but would prefer to ps him. I think beck has to play his way on the roster tonight and convince kubiak to carry 3 qb's.

If it comes down to Keenum or beck playing you might as well go with the young guy with room to grow than beck who is not going to take your team anywhere anyways.

GP
08-30-2012, 07:05 PM
If Russel Wilson can be a starter for the Seahawks, Keenum can be the #3 QB for the Texans - if he performed up to par, that is.

That sounded like something John Madden would say on MNF.

"That Case Keenum kid. I tell ya' what, he's somethin' else. If Russell Wilson can be the starter for the Seahawks, then Case Keenum can be the third Quarterback in Houston. Know what I mean, Al?"

Al chuckles and seques into commentating on the action on the field.

GP
08-30-2012, 07:08 PM
I think I disagree with all of that.

I think kubiak wants to keep case no matter what, but would prefer to ps him. I think beck has to play his way on the roster tonight and convince kubiak to carry 3 qb's.

If it comes down to Keenum or beck playing you might as well go with the young guy with room to grow than beck who is not going to take your team anywhere anyways.

Well, that depends on Kubiak's tolerance level for the potential to see spotty, rookie QB performance in a crucial season like we have right now. I think the Matt Leinart turfing incident in Jax really unnerved Kubiak...it sure as hell rattled all of us.

John Beck might be that Sage Rosenfels type of guy that Kubiak leans on rather than a rookie gunslinger. He's got that in TJ Yates if he wants that. IMO.

TheDrifter
08-30-2012, 08:50 PM
Beck got his half in. He looked solid. Missed on a couple of throws, but also made a couple of nice completions under pressure. Nothing very far down field, but no major mistakes.

If Beck already had the lead, Case is really going to have to show something special in the second half to overtake him.

Thorn
08-30-2012, 08:53 PM
Beck got his half in. He looked solid. Missed on a couple of throws, but also made a couple of nice completions under pressure. Nothing very far down field, but no major mistakes.

If Beck already had the lead, Case is really going to have to show something special in the second half to overtake him.

No way! Case already has the job!

Has the 2nd half started yet? :homer:

PapaL
08-30-2012, 09:17 PM
Honestly...I'm so tired of hearing about Keenum that I hope he gets cut. I couldn't imagine an entire year(s) of this. Yes the world revolves around me. Get over it.

Hervoyel
08-30-2012, 09:50 PM
I don't think that Case was ever very likely to make the 53. I'd have liked to have seen it happen but after watching the way he's played this preseason and the specific opportunities he's been given by the coaches I think they intended to sit him on the practice squad pretty much from day one barring him pulling some Clark Kent/Superman transformation.

Beck has been put in a position to show what he can do. Keenum has been given fewer opportunities with fewer assets to work with. I don't think that's a particularly bad thing in this situation. He'll get a year of work on the practice squad and come back either ready to seize his own spot on the roster or not.

Dutchrudder
08-30-2012, 10:01 PM
Honestly...I'm so tired of hearing about Keenum that I hope he gets cut. I couldn't imagine an entire year(s) of this. Yes the world revolves around me. Get over it.

I agree. It's slightly less annoying than VY fanboys.

Hervoyel
08-30-2012, 10:30 PM
Honestly...I'm so tired of hearing about Keenum that I hope he gets cut. I couldn't imagine an entire year(s) of this. Yes the world revolves around me. Get over it.

I agree. It's slightly less annoying than VY fanboys.


Oh please, gimmie a break. It's nothing like the VY situation, not even close.

gwallaia
08-30-2012, 10:32 PM
Well I hoped Case would have got to show more. Hopefully he can develop more skills on the practice squad.

b0ng
08-30-2012, 10:34 PM
I agree. It's slightly less annoying than VY fanboys.

Eh, VY was 24-7 on the radio stations for a little while, especially while bandwagon fans were riding the Titans jock because he went to the playoffs as a rookie and always had a good game in Reliant. I haven't heard nearly as much cognitive dissonance with re: Keenum on the radio this preseason. I don't think anybody is really going to clamor for him to come in, in Schaub's place during a regular season game.

gwallaia
08-30-2012, 10:38 PM
I agree. It's slightly less annoying than VY fanboys.

Over-reaction statement of the year award.

ArlingtonTexan
08-30-2012, 10:39 PM
Oh please, gimmie a break. It's nothing like the VY situation, not even close.

Of course, not, but he has been overtalked about considering he is a marginal NFL prospect.

Hervoyel
08-30-2012, 11:06 PM
Of course, not, but he has been overtalked about considering he is a marginal NFL prospect.

Well sure he has. I imagine every "hometown hero" gets that treatment when he signs to play with his hometown's NFL team. VY was like that example taken to an off-the charts level.

Case just illustrates how far apart the college and pro games are. He was an unbelievable college talent and is at best a developmental project at this level.

People pull for underdogs. They pull for them even harder when they know them.

cuppacoffee
08-30-2012, 11:28 PM
I doubt anyone will snap up Keenum when he is waived.

Not real sure he will beat out a few of the others to make our PS.

We need someone on the PS that can eventually leapfrog Yates.

I don't think Keenum can do that.

:coffee:

speedfreek
08-30-2012, 11:32 PM
Disagree with that..

The difference between Beck and Keenum tonight was that Posey took his slant 80 yards to the endzone, and Norris dropped the slant pass from Keenum that hit him right in the hands.

If Norris holds on and Posey gets tackled, Keenum and Beck are both 6 of 10 for about 50 yards.

Posey scores on a fantastic tackle-breaking run and Beck is a lock to make the team and Keenum is a roll of the dice to make the practice squad?

Don't see it.. Hopefully our coaches aren't thinking that way..

TJ

I doubt anyone will snap up Keenum when he is waived.

Not real sure he will beat out a few of the others to make our PS.

We need someone on the PS that can eventually leapfrog Yates.

I don't think Keenum can do that.

:coffee:

Vinny
08-30-2012, 11:35 PM
In my eyes I thought Beck looked like he was comfortable and makes nice throws under heat. Keenum is a PS QB at this point...may be all he will ever be. Upside is Ty Detmer. The Texans may even sign some other cut QB to their PS over him.

thunderkyss
08-30-2012, 11:36 PM
Keep 2 QBs, it is extremely rare you get to the 3rd QB in a season. Don't waste a roster spot for a small upgrade over a FA.

I don't think that Case was ever very likely to make the 53.

Beck has been put in a position to show what he can do.

I don't think Case was ever going to make the 53. Beck needed to blow Kubiak away tonight, convince him to keep 3 QBs on the 53, which would probably also prevent us from putting Case on the PS.

I didn't watch the game, but from reading the threads, I don't think Beck blew anyone away.

he's gone.

Dutchrudder
08-31-2012, 12:25 AM
Eh, VY was 24-7 on the radio stations for a little while, especially while bandwagon fans were riding the Titans jock because he went to the playoffs as a rookie and always had a good game in Reliant. I haven't heard nearly as much cognitive dissonance with re: Keenum on the radio this preseason. I don't think anybody is really going to clamor for him to come in, in Schaub's place during a regular season game.

It's similar, but not as prevalent. The only other fringe player on this team getting this much attention is Trindon Holliday, and he scored 3 TDs so far. I think that's deserved, Keenum not so much.

On the radio on the way home today it was UoH people calling about Keenum vs Beck, and how Case was gonna make a statement tonight. Personally, I don't think he did much to help himself tonight. He hasn't done anything to warrant the attention he has gotten so far (except college stats I guess), his preseason performance has been nothing special, yet he has all the Cougar fans pumping him up. Just off the top of my head here a few of the excuses I have heard so far:

They don't want to let him shine so other teams won't pick him up off the wire!
They won't let him throw on 1st down! (as if it's so much harder to make completions on 2nd and 3rd)
He has to play with third stringers, so that's why he's not doing well
If that was Andre, he would have made that catch!
The coach won't let him air it out
His o-line is full of backups and they suck!
etc etc...
This doesn't sound familiar to anyone else?

Of course, the fan club doesn't want to acknowledge his mistakes. Instead they focus on trashing Beck in order to make an argument for him to make the 53. He might make the team, but given the way people around here are swooning over him, I kind of hope he doesn't, but the jury is still out on this Case. If Schaub does go down this season, I fully expect a Yates/Keenum city-wide debate ala Schaub/Rosenfels 2008. I don't really want the team to deal with that, so I'd rather see something else happen, like move forward with only two QBs.

Anyways, sorry to interrupt the Keenum lovefest, carry on.

Joeycharp89
08-31-2012, 12:27 AM
I don't think Case was ever going to make the 53. Beck needed to blow Kubiak away tonight, convince him to keep 3 QBs on the 53, which would probably also prevent us from putting Case on the PS.

I didn't watch the game, but from reading the threads, I don't think Beck blew anyone away.

he's gone.

I agree with this. With how much potential depth we have at other positions I don't see us running 3 QBs. And I don't see the point of keeping Beck on the PS over Case. He's playing at a similar level as Case, but with less potential upside.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 01:09 AM
Come on Dutch, how the heck can you compare the support for Keenum with the love fest for VY.

UT fans (as well as several non-UT fans) were crowning him as one of the greatest ever before he ever played a down in the NFL.

Those who pulled for Keenum mostly think he goes to the PS, with an outside chance to make the team as the #3 QB.

TheDrifter
08-31-2012, 01:34 AM
Come on Dutch, how the heck can you compare the support for Keenum with the love fest for VY.

UT fans (as well as several non-UT fans) were crowning him as one of the greatest ever before he ever played a down in the NFL.

Those who pulled for Keenum mostly think he goes to the PS, with an outside chance to make the team as the #3 QB.

Doesnt take many crazies to drown out the rational folks. Ive been told it'll be a great miscarriage of justice if Case is anything less than QB 2 and "probably starting by midseason after a Schaub injury."

Norg
08-31-2012, 01:36 AM
we should only carry 2 QB's and use the extra spot 4 someone else

this is a make or break year for Schaub if he cant stay healthy and yates cant run da ship our season will tank fast and we will be in the top 10 draft pick looking to draft our QB of the future

76Texan
08-31-2012, 01:40 AM
BTW, Dutch, I don't know if you're up to it or not, but I was hoping you can put up the 3 long pass plays:

1. Beck to Martin (the drop) at 7:02 in the first.

2. Keenum to Posey at 11:22 in the third

3. Keenum to Iglesias at 2:57 in the fourth.

I'd like to compare 1 and 2

On (1) Martin lined up in the slot and ran a wheel route down the left side line.
At the 6 sec mark, Beck's ball went some 37 yards from the LOS.
To me, that was late. Martin had to wait forever.

On (2) Posey lined up outside the numbers and ran an up and out (and up).
At the 6 sec mark, Keenum's ball went some 43 yards from the LOS.
Posey couldn't catch up to it.

Martin's route takes longer to run, and yet Beck was late with the ball.

Posey's route is shorter but he couldn't catch up to the ball.
At the 6 sec mark, I would say, a majority of NFL speed receivers (as opposed to the big but slower ones) should get there.

I have timed these simliar routes with Patrick Edwards (UH) and Kendall Wright (Baylor) a few times.
I know both of those guys got there in that time frame.

On (3) was when the local broadcast switched to channel 13.2
They mentioned it very quickly before going to the RNC.
I was able to watch the rest of the game, but didn't have my capture card switched (too lazy) to record those last few minutes.
I will just have to wait for torrent since I don't subscribe to PS games on NFL.

At any rate, it was another long ball down the left side line.
Iglesias wanted a PI, but maybe the refs deemed the ball uncatchable.
I want to see that play again to compare with the other two.

The Pencil Neck
08-31-2012, 01:47 AM
I don't think Case was ever going to make the 53. Beck needed to blow Kubiak away tonight, convince him to keep 3 QBs on the 53, which would probably also prevent us from putting Case on the PS.

I didn't watch the game, but from reading the threads, I don't think Beck blew anyone away.

he's gone.

I thought Beck looked really good. I thought he looked like he had a good command of the offense. He made some good throws.

The guy went 6-10 and only two of those incompletions didn't look good: a floater that KMart should have caught for a big gain and a short hop to Supernaw. Jean dropped a ball in the end-zone; it would have been a great catch because it was behind him to keep from getting picked off, but he should have caught it. And Norris dropped one that hit him right in the hands.

I think he played his way on to the 53.

Texn4life
08-31-2012, 01:52 AM
I thought Beck looked really good. I thought he looked like he had a good command of the offense. He made some good throws.

The guy went 6-10 and only two of those incompletions didn't look good: a floater that KMart should have caught for a big gain and a short hop to Supernaw. Jean dropped a ball in the end-zone; it would have been a great catch because it was behind him to keep from getting picked off, but he should have caught it. And Norris dropped one that hit him right in the hands.

I think he played his way on to the 53.

I thought Beck looked good as well. Even on the TD pass to Posey he had pressure right in his face, got his head around and delivered a nice ball. He didn't even know the play broke for a while because he was still on the ground. Was he Schaub sharp? No, but I came away impressed.

Allstar
08-31-2012, 02:00 AM
It'll be a tough call on Beck. He looked good, but we're going to be carrying 6 WRs. That makes it hard to allow an extra spot any where else. I think we only carried 4 WRs last year.

Texn4life
08-31-2012, 02:01 AM
It'll be a tough call on Beck. He looked good, but we're going to be carrying 6 WRs. That makes it hard to allow an extra spot any where else. I think we only carried 4 WRs last year.

We carried 4 going into the season, but we also carried 4 backs because of Arian being hurt and I believe we carried 7 CBs. Its going to be a tough call.

Norg
08-31-2012, 02:05 AM
thats why i think we have no choice but to carry only 2 QB's we are going 4 the gussto this season this is trying to win a SB so we need all our best players on deck and John beck is not one of thoes

thunderkyss
08-31-2012, 02:25 AM
He might make the team, but given the way people around here are swooning over him, I kind of hope he doesn't, but the jury is still out on this Case. If Schaub does go down this season, I fully expect a Yates/Keenum city-wide debate ala Schaub/Rosenfels 2008. I don't really want the team to deal with that, so I'd rather see something else happen, like move forward with only two QBs.


Right now, Schaub is good. Not great. Not elite. I think he can change that this season. He's got a really good team & a lot of good hands on offense; Andre, Walter, Arian, OD, Casey. Then there are the kids... Posey, LeStar, KMart, Graham. Hopefully he can show us that he is our QB of the future.

If not, I think it's up to Yates to shut up the UH fan club. If Schaub goes down, he's got to play better than he did last year & make sure there is no doubt that he is the starting QB.

Pressure from Keenum (& his fanboys) is only going to help us find out if Yates is the guy. In my mind, if that kind of pressure keeps Yates from performing at his best, then he's not the guy we need & it's better to find out now rather than go into the off-season in limbo.

If Schaub doesn't finish this season healthy, I'd like to know if Yates is the guy or not. I'm sure the coaches would have a good idea based on practice or what not, but we don't have that luxury.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 02:30 AM
For the record, I like Schaub and Yates.

I'd like to see Schaub taking the team deep into the play-offs.

I like Yates, but I'm not sure he has IT.
Like Schaub, Yates doesn't need to have IT for the team to win, but he needs to improve (just like Schaub has been doing).

speedfreek
08-31-2012, 07:54 AM
At this point, with the injuries to the offensive line, and the fact that tricycle earned a spot, I think Gary puts Schaub and Yates on the 53, cuts Beck and Keenum and hopes he can resign Case to the PS.

The Beck-Keenum battle was a wash, and after 4 preseason games where the O-line looked as porous as a screen door I think the entire "potential" superbowl run is jeopardized by the fact that there's no QB protection and Foster wasn't getting the type of yardage he normally does when the #1's were in..

The o-line thing is the most frightening aspect of it all. Bad o-line means Schaub doesn't last the entire year, and I believe one of the reasons Yates looked so bad was that he was not getting the usual time he was accustomed to.

Just hope the other 31 teams think that Case is as bad of an NFL QB as the vast majority of people on here do.

16 pass attempts in 4 games gives us a chance to hold onto him as he really didn't get much on film. In his previous gig, he would get 16 pass attempts in one quarter ;o)

T

GP
08-31-2012, 08:01 AM
16 pass attempts in 4 games gives us a chance to hold onto him as he really didn't get much on film. In his previous gig, he would get 16 pass attempts in one quarter ;o)

T

Yep. Nobody will claim him because he definitely had little film on himself.

I think we keep Beck as QB3, Case to the PS. Kubiak won't dare go into the season with only two QBs. IMO.

Thorn
08-31-2012, 08:02 AM
Yep. Nobody will claim him because he definitely had little film on himself.

I think we keep Beck as QB3, Case to the PS. Kubiak won't dare go into the season with only two QBs. IMO.

I think this is the most likely scenerio as well.

SheTexan
08-31-2012, 08:26 AM
thats why i think we have no choice but to carry only 2 QB's we are going 4 the gussto this season this is trying to win a SB so we need all our best players on deck and John beck is not one of thoes

Did you bother to watch ALL the preseason games? Yates was horrible!! YEA, I know he played mostly with the scrubs, BUT, he should have played a LOT better, regardless! We go into this season with 2 QBs and Matt goes down, we can kiss another season goodbye!

Kubiak would be the dumbest coach in the NFL if he goes into what is SUPPOSE to be our best year, with only MS, and a second year kid who only played HALF the year off the PS himself. Beck or Case, I don't care. Put SOMEONE on the PS and make him work his butt off!! JMO!!

cuppacoffee
08-31-2012, 10:34 AM
In my eyes I thought Beck looked like he was comfortable and makes nice throws under heat. Keenum is a PS QB at this point...may be all he will ever be. Upside is Ty Detmer. The Texans may even sign some other cut QB to their PS over him.


These are my thoughts also.

This will not help us make many friends here. :D

:coffee:

Thorn
08-31-2012, 11:30 AM
These are my thoughts also.

This will not help us make many friends here. :D

:coffee:

I HATE YOU!!!!111!! :lol:

I'm thinking they stash Keenum on the PS. I just worry he might get snatched up by someone very short on QBs. I might also be worrying to much. I hope we manage to keep him.

utahmark
08-31-2012, 11:42 AM
Did you bother to watch ALL the preseason games? Yates was horrible!! YEA, I know he played mostly with the scrubs, BUT, he should have played a LOT better, regardless! We go into this season with 2 QBs and Matt goes down, we can kiss another season goodbye!
Kubiak would be the dumbest coach in the NFL if he goes into what is SUPPOSE to be our best year, with only MS, and a second year kid who only played HALF the year off the PS himself. Beck or Case, I don't care. Put SOMEONE on the PS and make him work his butt off!! JMO!!

If Matt goes down it's not going to matter how many backup qb's we have on the roster, we won't be going to the superbowl. You can add 31 other teams that will not go to the superbowl if their starting QB goes down.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 11:44 AM
If Matt goes down it's not going to matter how many backup qb's we have on the roster, we won't be going to the superbowl. You can add 31 other teams that will not go to the superbowl if their starting QB goes down.

Hey, if Schaub gets hurt while leading the Texans to a win in the championship game, we will still be going to the SB. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

76Texan
08-31-2012, 11:47 AM
While Beck seems to be improving under pressure, he only attempts one deep throw in the PS and he was late and short on that pass (to KMart).

We can cut Beck and put Keenum on the PS.
The odds are Beck can be resigned pretty much anytime.

utahmark
08-31-2012, 12:33 PM
Keenum is a system QB that comes from a school that has produced system qb's that fail in the nfl. He is to short and has a weak arm. If he was'nt from a local school none of you would give him a second look. If you don't believe me then.....

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1159194-case-keenum-transition-to-nfl-will-be-too-much-for-former-star-qb-to-handle

http://www.profootballweekly.com/prospects/player/case-keenum-7/

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2011/10/28/2520710/case-keenums-nine-touchdowns-nfl-draft

There are a ton of articles just like this that say the same thing.

Dutchrudder
08-31-2012, 12:34 PM
Btw, Keenum was waived:

Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli

That's two we know about, Loiseau and Keenum waived. Both would have to clear waivers before possible to put them on practice squad. #Texans

HOU-TEX
08-31-2012, 12:40 PM
Looks like we're carrying 3 QBs.....for the time being

Tania Ganguli‏@taniaganguli

QB Beck has made the 53-man roster said a person familiar with his status. So the #Texans will carry three and likely put Keenum on P squad

76Texan
08-31-2012, 12:42 PM
Keenum is a system QB that comes from a school that has produced system qb's that fail in the nfl. He is to short and has a weak arm. If he was'nt from a local school none of you would give him a second look. If you don't believe me then.....

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1159194-case-keenum-transition-to-nfl-will-be-too-much-for-former-star-qb-to-handle

http://www.profootballweekly.com/prospects/player/case-keenum-7/

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2011/10/28/2520710/case-keenums-nine-touchdowns-nfl-draft

There are a ton of articles just like this that say the same thing.

I watched about 85% of his game.
I have several game tapes on him.
I know what he's about.

That system he ran has a lot of simliraties to the system that RG II and Weeden ran, OK!

And BTW, Kubiak said Keenum has a good arm (in the most recent press conference).

rmartin65
08-31-2012, 12:42 PM
Looks like we're carrying 3 QBs.....for the time being

Cue the griping from the fan club...

HOU-TEX
08-31-2012, 12:44 PM
Cue the griping from the fan club...

Which fan club? lol

utahmark
08-31-2012, 12:55 PM
Hey, if Schaub gets hurt while leading the Texans to a win in the championship game, we will still be going to the SB. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

You got me.

speedfreek
08-31-2012, 01:09 PM
I can understand the cutting of Keenum if you think there's a good chance you can PS him.

I don't get the keeping of Beck. If we get to QB3 we're done. I'd rather be tanking games than keeping a guy that's never stuck anywhere.

It's silly to even do it. I'd be loading up on all of the available free agent o-linemen to protect Schaub rather than wasting a spot on a guy that's never performed when the games really mattered..

I'm concerned about the line and believe that's why Yates really look like he took a step back in the last few games..

TJ

gwallaia
08-31-2012, 01:11 PM
I'm disappointed that Case did not make the 53 roster but I'm not surprised. Let's hope he develops more skills on the PS.

Thorn
08-31-2012, 01:12 PM
Cue the griping from the fan club...

OK, I'm griping. :whip:

76Texan
08-31-2012, 01:21 PM
I can understand the cutting of Keenum if you think there's a good chance you can PS him.

I don't get the keeping of Beck. If we get to QB3 we're done. I'd rather be tanking games than keeping a guy that's never stuck anywhere.

It's silly to even do it. I'd be loading up on all of the available free agent o-linemen to protect Schaub rather than wasting a spot on a guy that's never performed when the games really mattered..

I'm concerned about the line and believe that's why Yates really look like he took a step back in the last few games..

TJ

At least, Beck has shown improvement playing under pressure.
Could very well be that Beck has shown enough improvement in practices, too.

On the other hand, it might be a strategy to let the other teams think that Keenum couldn't beat out Beck, so he must not be any good.
I know it's a conspiracy theory, but heck, I thought I just throw it out there, LOL!

PapaL
08-31-2012, 01:34 PM
But but but we should've drafted him with our 4th pick. He's gonna set the league on fire.

I'm sorry but the guy just isn't NFL good. Maybe he'll do well in the AFL or the Lingerie League. He's just not an NFL QB.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 01:37 PM
I don't know about other people, I've never said that Keenum will set the league on fire.

utahmark
08-31-2012, 01:42 PM
I can understand the cutting of Keenum if you think there's a good chance you can PS him.

I don't get the keeping of Beck. If we get to QB3 we're done. I'd rather be tanking games than keeping a guy that's never stuck anywhere.

It's silly to even do it. I'd be loading up on all of the available free agent o-linemen to protect Schaub rather than wasting a spot on a guy that's never performed when the games really mattered..I'm concerned about the line and believe that's why Yates really look like he took a step back in the last few games..

TJ

We may not be going to the superbowl if our qb's start going down but we are way to good to be tanking games. Our defense alone gives us a shot to win most games.

What if Matt goes down for a couple of weeks and then TJ gets hurt. Maybe we need a qb for 1 or 2 games to help us till Matt gets back. Would'nt you want a guy who has been on our roster all year preparing to play rather than a guy off the street.

speedfreek
08-31-2012, 02:12 PM
Dude, he's thrown 16 passes. What credentials do you have to say he isn't NFL good?

I understand the hate for Case-lovers, but not the hate for Case..

TJ


But but but we should've drafted him with our 4th pick. He's gonna set the league on fire.

I'm sorry but the guy just isn't NFL good. Maybe he'll do well in the AFL or the Lingerie League. He's just not an NFL QB.

Hervoyel
08-31-2012, 02:52 PM
I don't know about other people, I've never said that Keenum will set the league on fire.


He's just getting his troll on. Only the most foolish Keenum fans thought he'd light it up as a rookie. He's a player you develop if you have that luxury and inclination. Kubiak will keep him around for a little while just because he's a scrapper who doesn't give up. Eventually he'll have to step up to the next level or Kubiak will move on to another project.

Thorn
08-31-2012, 02:58 PM
He's just getting his troll on. Only the most foolish Keenum fans thought he'd light it up as a rookie. He's a player you develop if you have that luxury and inclination. Kubiak will keep him around for a little while just because he's a scrapper who doesn't give up. Eventually he'll have to step up to the next level or Kubiak will move on to another project.

Which is pretty much what most of us wanted for Case, a chance, and an extra chance again on the practice squad if need be. I'm now hoping he clears waviers so he can be on our PS.

gwallaia
08-31-2012, 03:47 PM
I agree. It's slightly less annoying than VY fanboys.

OK, I just went over to coogfans.com. Good Lord there are some blind homers over there that have no concept of NFL football. But still as bad as they are, they can not hold a candle to the VY fans.

Norg
08-31-2012, 03:50 PM
carring 3 qbs to me is like not having faith that Matt can stay healthy and kinda like playing it safe and taking a risk to have a huge gain in having a extra spot for someone who could acctuallly see the field

like a

O line

D line

or Linebacker guy

Hervoyel
08-31-2012, 04:38 PM
I'd actually agree with that Norg. If I were the Texans I'd go into the season with 2 QB's again. Beck isn't going anywhere and there are always guys you can pick up if you actually get down to your 3rd QB. I'd go with Schaub, Yates, and OD doing his emergency QB bit. If Matt goes down our year is over anyway. You can bet the farm on that. If it happens you put a call in to Beck and if he's not available you hit he FA little black book and play out your games. There's always someone you can sign at that point and it really doesn't much matter who that guy is as long as he can manage a game, throw an occaisonal pass, and take the pounding that goes with the territory.

The Pencil Neck
08-31-2012, 04:39 PM
carring 3 qbs to me is like not having faith that Matt can stay healthy and kinda like playing it safe and taking a risk to have a huge gain in having a extra spot for someone who could acctuallly see the field

like a

O line

D line

or Linebacker guy

We've carried 3 QBs the past couple of years. Expecting Kubes to suddenly go back to 2 QBs like he did his first couple of years after the health concerns we have with Schaub and after the nightmare of having Sage Rosenfels get injured and having to go with Carr and Bradlee Van Pelt is some kinda delusional. You don't make decisions like this based on your faith in the player, you make the decision to minimize the catastrophe if it strikes.

Carrying 2 QBs is a gamble that there's no need for.

Dutchrudder
08-31-2012, 04:41 PM
OK, I just went over to coogfans.com. Good Lord there are some blind homers over there that have no concept of NFL football. But still as bad as they are, they can not hold a candle to the VY fans.

Haha, yeah... there's a lot of funny stuff going on over there. I work with a few UoH guys, and the one told me last week (not jokingly) that if Keenum was given the starting job over Schaub that "Andre would be a lock for the Hall of Fame." I just said "OK!" and rolled my eyes... I don't know how people get this crazy about stuff this early.

Hervoyel
08-31-2012, 04:43 PM
We've carried 3 QBs the past couple of years. Expecting Kubes to suddenly go back to 2 QBs like he did his first couple of years after the health concerns we have with Schaub and after the nightmare of having Sage Rosenfels get injured and having to go with Carr and Bradlee Van Pelt is some kinda delusional. You don't make decisions like this based on your faith in the player, you make the decision to minimize the catastrophe if it strikes.

Carrying 2 QBs is a gamble that there's no need for.

Our roster has never been so widely stocked. Don't get me wrong, we're shallow in spots but we could actually put that roster spot to use now as opposed to a few years ago. I wouldn't carry two because it said anything about Schaub. I'd carry two because we can use that spot in a much better way.

Rey
08-31-2012, 04:44 PM
We've carried 3 QBs the past couple of years. Expecting Kubes to suddenly go back to 2 QBs like he did his first couple of years after the health concerns we have with Schaub and after the nightmare of having Sage Rosenfels get injured and having to go with Carr and Bradlee Van Pelt is some kinda delusional. You don't make decisions like this based on your faith in the player, you make the decision to minimize the catastrophe if it strikes.

Carrying 2 QBs is a gamble that there's no need for.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't kubiak only carry two QB's into the Jags road game last year?

I realize that's a different situation and he only had a week to make that decision, but I'm just asking a question...

Dutchrudder
08-31-2012, 04:50 PM
I'd actually agree with that Norg. If I were the Texans I'd go into the season with 2 QB's again. Beck isn't going anywhere and there are always guys you can pick up if you actually get down to your 3rd QB. I'd go with Schaub, Yates, and OD doing his emergency QB bit. If Matt goes down our year is over anyway. You can bet the farm on that. If it happens you put a call in to Beck and if he's not available you hit he FA little black book and play out your games. There's always someone you can sign at that point and it really doesn't much matter who that guy is as long as he can manage a game, throw an occaisonal pass, and take the pounding that goes with the territory.

You have to make 7 guys inactive every game, injured or not. Most likely, we will have only 2 active QBs on gameday, and the third will be there so that he can continue to practice with the team during the week. John Beck can't go on the practice squad, so the only way to keep him around is by putting him on the 53. It allows him to practice fully with the team and keep up with the offense, but he will only be active if something happens to Matt or TJ. It is drastically more difficult to pick up a FA QB and teach him to be the backup than it is for any other position, which is why we need three QBs on the 53.

Keenum will be on the p-squad assuming he clears waivers, it just makes sense for an UDFA rookie. Next year Keenum will probably supplant Beck as the #3 after a full year of practicing with the team and learning the playbook. At that point they will give him a chance to be the #2 and see how he progressed. He will get his chance eventually, he's just gonna have to wait a bit.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 04:56 PM
You have to make 7 guys inactive every game, injured or not. Most likely, we will have only 2 active QBs on gameday, and the third will be there so that he can continue to practice with the team during the week. John Beck can't go on the practice squad, so the only way to keep him around is by putting him on the 53. It allows him to practice fully with the team and keep up with the offense, but he will only be active if something happens to Matt or TJ. It is drastically more difficult to pick up a FA QB and teach him to be the backup than it is for any other position, which is why we need three QBs on the 53.

Keenum will be on the p-squad assuming he clears waivers, it just makes sense for an UDFA rookie. Next year Keenum will probably supplant Beck as the #3 after a full year of practicing with the team and learning the playbook. At that point they will give him a chance to be the #2 and see how he progressed. He will get his chance eventually, he's just gonna have to wait a bit.
Did we carry 3 QBs at the time Sage was here? I don't remember what was going on there.

I understand that it's prudent to carry 3 QBs, but a guy like Beck can be brought back anytime, can't he?

The Skins cut him and drafted 2 QBs, retaining Grossman as the verteran.

We don't even want Grossman; what's so hot about Beck?

Dutchrudder
08-31-2012, 05:02 PM
Did we carry 3 QBs at the time Sage was here? I don't remember what was going on there.

I understand that it's prudent to carry 3 QBs, but a guy like Beck can be brought back anytime, can't he?

The Skins cut him and drafted 2 QBs, retaining Grossman as the verteran.

We don't even want Grossman; what's so hot about Beck?

I'm not defending Beck as I don't think he's all that much above a JAG, but 3 QBs makes a lot of sense on the roster. An offense as complex as the Texans takes a lot more than a week to learn, and since you have to have 7 guys inactive every week, why not keep a QB3 ready? Especially with an injury prone QB at the helm, you have to have two QBs ready to step in when necessary. I can guarantee you that it is 10 times easier to bring in a street FA linebacker or safety and get them up to speed, than it is to do the same with a QB. It's much more important IMO to have 3 QBs than to have an extra LB, RB, S or CB.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm not defending Beck as I don't think he's all that much above a JAG, but 3 QBs makes a lot of sense on the roster. An offense as complex as the Texans takes a lot more than a week to learn, and since you have to have 7 guys inactive every week, why not keep a QB3 ready? Especially with an injury prone QB at the helm, you have to have two QBs ready to step in when necessary. I can guarantee you that it is 10 times easier to bring in a street FA linebacker or safety and get them up to speed, than it is to do the same with a QB. It's much more important IMO to have 3 QBs than to have an extra LB, RB, S or CB.

I know, but Beck already has a year under Shanahan and OTA and TC with us.

He already knows at least 90% of the playbook.
It shouldn't be hard to bring him back.

Again, I understand that it's not a bad idea to keep 3 QBs on the roster.
I'm just thinking that we may need the flexibility at the beginning of the season to shuffle the roster before settling into a more permanent look.

utahmark
08-31-2012, 05:18 PM
Did we carry 3 QBs at the time Sage was here? I don't remember what was going on there.

I understand that it's prudent to carry 3 QBs, but a guy like Beck can be brought back anytime, can't he?The Skins cut him and drafted 2 QBs, retaining Grossman as the verteran.

We don't even want Grossman; what's so hot about Beck?

I don't think we kept 3 most of the time Sage was here.

You can bring in a guy like Beck anytime but it takes time to learn the system.

The Pencil Neck
08-31-2012, 05:24 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't kubiak only carry two QB's into the Jags road game last year?

I realize that's a different situation and he only had a week to make that decision, but I'm just asking a question...

Yep but they were scouring the streets for someone to bring in to be #3. And then we almost immediately brought in Garcia and Delhomme to fill us back up to 3.

I was actually talking more about rosters to start the season but it's a good point.

I mean, the one time he allows himself to get back down to 2, he loses a guy and he's down to 1. That's the sort of thing that will leave marks on your soul.

The Pencil Neck
08-31-2012, 05:25 PM
Did we carry 3 QBs at the time Sage was here? I don't remember what was going on there.

I understand that it's prudent to carry 3 QBs, but a guy like Beck can be brought back anytime, can't he?

The Skins cut him and drafted 2 QBs, retaining Grossman as the verteran.

We don't even want Grossman; what's so hot about Beck?

Not the first year and maybe the second year, but I think pretty much every year since then, we've gone with three.

What's so hot about Beck? He's not Owen Daniels... who would be our emergency QB if we run through the QBs.

The Pencil Neck
08-31-2012, 05:26 PM
I don't think we kept 3 most of the time Sage was here.

You can bring in a guy like Beck anytime but it takes time to learn the system.

I think we went 2 QBs Sage's first year. The second year, we might have just gone with Schaub & Sage but when Schaub went down, I think we brought in a 3 and I think we've had 3 ever since.

Speedy
08-31-2012, 05:30 PM
I can understand the cutting of Keenum if you think there's a good chance you can PS him.

I don't get the keeping of Beck. If we get to QB3 we're done. I'd rather be tanking games than keeping a guy that's never stuck anywhere.

It's silly to even do it. I'd be loading up on all of the available free agent o-linemen to protect Schaub rather than wasting a spot on a guy that's never performed when the games really mattered..

I'm concerned about the line and believe that's why Yates really look like he took a step back in the last few games..

TJ

I'm of the opinion that if we get to QB #2 we're done. Yates is 3rd string still, IMO. He looked that part last year, which is understandable, but he looked about the same, if not worse this pre-season. Honestly, I'd take Delhomme over both Yates and Beck at this point.

Dutchrudder
08-31-2012, 05:32 PM
I know, but Beck already has a year under Shanahan and OTA and TC with us.

He already knows at least 90% of the playbook.
It shouldn't be hard to bring him back.

Again, I understand that it's not a bad idea to keep 3 QBs on the roster.
I'm just thinking that we may need the flexibility at the beginning of the season to shuffle the roster before settling into a more permanent look.

Yeah, he probably wouldn't have a hard time picking it back up, but I don't see the value in keeping CB #6 or RB#4 over QB#3. I mean, that's really the issue here, who exactly gets that 53rd spot over QB3?

To answer your earlier question, I don't think we had 3 QBs on the 2008 roster. I found a couple sites with old rosters and none of them have a QB other than Sage and Matt. They did have 7th round draft pick Alex Brink on the p-squad that year, so maybe he was considered the third QB. In 09 and beyond, we always started the season with 3 QBs (Grossman, Orlovsky, etc).

Apparently in 2007, we had Schaub, Sage and Shane Boyd on the final 53. (Who?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Houston_Texans_season#Roster

The Pencil Neck
08-31-2012, 05:37 PM
Apparently in 2007, we had Schaub, Sage and Shane Boyd on the final 53. (Who?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Houston_Texans_season#Roster

Ah, Shane Boyd. The Memories. He looked good when he was with the Cardinals in pre-season... against us. Athletic guy. I thought he was going to have a good shot at developing into a good QB.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 05:45 PM
Yeah, he probably wouldn't have a hard time picking it back up, but I don't see the value in keeping CB #6 or RB#4 over QB#3. I mean, that's really the issue here, who exactly gets that 53rd spot over QB3?

To answer your earlier question, I don't think we had 3 QBs on the 2008 roster. I found a couple sites with old rosters and none of them have a QB other than Sage and Matt. They did have 7th round draft pick Alex Brink on the p-squad that year, so maybe he was considered the third QB. In 09 and beyond, we always started the season with 3 QBs (Grossman, Orlovsky, etc).

Apparently in 2007, we had Schaub, Sage and Shane Boyd on the final 53. (Who?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Houston_Texans_season#Roster

I'm only thinking in term of right now, early in the season.

There might be a guy or two at other position(s) we might want to give a little more chance to see what they are all about.
There might be a waiver-wire pick-up that we think might match with us and we may need a roster spot for that.

After a few weeks, we can settle down into a more permanent look, like I said.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 05:53 PM
But who knows; maybe Kubiak wants Beck on the roster until he can sign Keenum to the PS.

Maybe he will cut Beck at that time.

On the other hand, Kubiak may think that Beck has improved enough to be kept on the permanent roster.

ArlingtonTexan
08-31-2012, 06:20 PM
I may have overlooked it, but i don't think anyone has addresed the other possibility; Yates. At least from his limited pre-season work, it did not look like he made true progeression to being a no doubt about back-up in training to be a starter. He looked like a late round draft pick that has some potential.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 06:54 PM
I may have overlooked it, but i don't think anyone has addresed the other possibility; Yates. At least from his limited pre-season work, it did not look like he made true progeression to being a no doubt about back-up in training to be a starter. He looked like a late round draft pick that has some potential.

Good point, and I don't think we're overlooking it.

Yates still needs quite a bit of improvement.
I was hoping that he would show a little better this PS.

We're not out of the woods yet in this department.

PapaL
08-31-2012, 07:17 PM
Dude, he's thrown 16 passes. What credentials do you have to say he isn't NFL good?

I understand the hate for Case-lovers, but not the hate for Case..

TJ

The same credentials you have to say he is good. I just don't see it. Never had. Yes he was a great college QB but that means NOTHING now.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 07:31 PM
The same credentials you have to say he is good. I just don't see it. Never had. Yes he was a great college QB but that means NOTHING now.

I agree that he hasn't shown "good", but he still plays "mistake-free" football.

Overthrown balls (if you want to call them that) were where only the receivers can get to it.

He didn't turn the ball over.
(The same cannot be said for Yates during his rookie PS).

The incompletion he threw to Posey was a miscommuncation between them two.
Keenum was pressured and he threw the ball to the empty space wherethe receiver would have catch.
I don't blame Posey for trying to adjust when he saw the QB pressured.

They need a lot more time to develop an understanding between themselves so that they can be on the same page.

And remember that Yates had 4 years in a copy-cat WCO to the Texans at UNC. He's quite familiar with the system, and so is Beck.

Keenum has been learning a different system.

Look at what they do with RG III in Washington.
They brought him along slowly because (in college) he wasn't in the WCO either.

PapaL
08-31-2012, 07:47 PM
I agree that he hasn't shown "good", but he still plays "mistake-free" football.

Overthrown balls (if you want to call them that) were where only the receivers can get to it.

He didn't turn the ball over.
(The same cannot be said for Yates during his rookie PS).

The incompletion he threw to Posey was a miscommuncation between them two.
Keenum was pressured and he threw the ball to the empty space wherethe receiver would have catch.
I don't blame Posey for trying to adjust when he saw the QB pressured.

They need a lot more time to develop an understanding between themselves so that they can be on the same page.

And remember that Yates had 4 years in a copy-cat WCO to the Texans at UNC. He's quite familiar with the system, and so is Beck.

Keenum has been learning a different system.

Look at what they do with RG III in Washington.
They brought him along slowly because (in college) he wasn't in the WCO either.

I don't hate the guy; hope no one is reading that. All I'm saying is that right now, he's not a good fight for us and there are other guys that are.

He has played mistake free football, that is true. A lot of people wanna say he is a gunslinger but flat out you can't be a game manager and a gunslinger.

Idk...I just think once cuts are made we will have better options for that Practice Squad QB. I just don't see Case being that answer.

Lucky
08-31-2012, 07:59 PM
I may have overlooked it, but i don't think anyone has addresed the other possibility; Yates. At least from his limited pre-season work, it did not look like he made true progeression to being a no doubt about back-up in training to be a starter. He looked like a late round draft pick that has some potential.
Yates looked a lot better when he was surrounded by the 1st team o-line and Arian Foster. Not yet the guy who can carry a team.

speedfreek
08-31-2012, 08:04 PM
He threw SIXTEEN PASSES.

Beck's been in the nfl for years and was in the same system last year. Keenum had the playbook for 2 months.

Beck and Keenum had almost identical stats in the game except Posey ran his slant in for a TD and Norris dropped his.

It's absurd for you to state that Keenum isn't and NFL QB after the limited time and action he's had.

_absurd_

:vincepalm:

I don't know if he will be good or not, but no way in hell I say he's bad. The guy had drives that were 16 passes in college (and became the most successfull passer in NCAA history by his final year). He got 16 in 3 games with Gary..

But that's fine, he'll get his chances. When he was a freshman his coach couldn't decide between him and a guy who ended up not starting as a JuCo QB when he transferred..

TJ

The same credentials you have to say he is good. I just don't see it. Never had. Yes he was a great college QB but that means NOTHING now.

PapaL
08-31-2012, 08:15 PM
He threw SIXTEEN PASSES.

Beck's been in the nfl for years and was in the same system last year. Keenum had the playbook for 2 months.

Beck and Keenum had almost identical stats in the game except Posey ran his slant in for a TD and Norris dropped his.

It's absurd for you to state that Keenum isn't and NFL QB after the limited time and action he's had.

_absurd_

:vincepalm:

I don't know if he will be good or not, but no way in hell I say he's bad. The guy had drives that were 16 passes in college (and became the most successfull passer in NCAA history by his final year). He got 16 in 3 games with Gary..

But that's fine, he'll get his chances. When he was a freshman his coach couldn't decide between him and a guy who ended up not starting as a JuCo QB when he transferred..

TJ

What did all those college passes get him? NOT DRAFTED

What did those 16 Preseason games passes get him? CUT

We can agree to disagree but at this point it's you saying that all 32 teams are wrong. It doesn't matter what you or I think; the experts have already pegged him.

BTW - Gary has seen way more than 16 passes. To hear you spin it Gary would close his eyes when Case dropped back to throw in practice (PRACTICE). Gary being the QB "expert". Come on man...

Seattle brought Flynn in as decent priced FA. A guy that had the playbook for 2 months beat him out for the STARTING position. Why does Keenum and all his NCAA passing records get a break for not being able to beat out the THIRD string guy? You're 2 month theory holds no water. Sorry.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 08:35 PM
I don't hate the guy; hope no one is reading that. All I'm saying is that right now, he's not a good fight for us and there are other guys that are.

He has played mistake free football, that is true. A lot of people wanna say he is a gunslinger but flat out you can't be a game manager and a gunslinger.

Idk...I just think once cuts are made we will have better options for that Practice Squad QB. I just don't see Case being that answer.

Of course, I don't think you or anybody is hating on the guy.

There are legitimate concerns with his size, and not being as athletic as Newton, Luck, RG III, or Wilson.

The one thing I disagree on is the competition level he had in college.
On the surface, it is true that the competition he faced was not on the same level as most QBs drafted.

But I have said many times that his O-line wasn't all that great.
Keenum had to work against those pressure a lot.

He used to have some of the gunslinger mentality because he needed to make some plays. That was why he was able to bring the Cougars back to an almost upset against Alabama in 07.

The good QBs eventually learn not to force things (including many good QBs in the NFL recently).

And that's what he did.
That's what RG III did last year in the collegiate scenario.
That's what Wilson did as well.

For Keenum to have any degree of success in the NFL, he needs to remain very smart, and very poise/calm.
He doesn't have quite the athleticism to help his game otherwise.

PapaL
08-31-2012, 08:46 PM
Of course, I don't think you or anybody is hating on the guy.

There are legitimate concerns with his size, and not being as athletic as Newton, Luck, RG III, or Wilson.

The one thing I disagree on is the competition level he had in college.
On the surface, it is true that the competition he faced was not on the same level as most QBs drafted.

But I have said many times that his O-line wasn't all that great.
Keenum had to work against those pressure a lot.

He used to have some of the gunslinger mentality because he needed to make some plays. That was why he was able to bring the Cougars back to an almost upset against Alabama in 07.

The good QBs eventually learn not to force things (including many good QBs in the NFL recently).

And that's what he did.
That's what RG III did last year in the collegiate scenario.
That's what Wilson did as well.

For Keenum to have any degree of success in the NFL, he needs to remain very smart, and very poise/calm.
He doesn't have quite the athleticism to help his game otherwise.

And that is the most level headed comment I have read about Keenum. That logic I can get behind and support.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 11:45 PM
And that is the most level headed comment I have read about Keenum. That logic I can get behind and support.

For that, I thank you very much.

See, it's possible to have different opinions about a player (etc.) and still have a conversation.

I would rather not going into monologues, because that is not what a forum is all about.

Let's keep it going.

ChampionTexan
09-01-2012, 12:01 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't kubiak only carry two QB's into the Jags road game last year?

I realize that's a different situation and he only had a week to make that decision, but I'm just asking a question...

Although not active for the game, Kellen Clemens was on the 53 man roster for the Jaguars game. He took the spot that opened up when Schaub went on IR.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2012, 01:09 AM
Although not active for the game, Kellen Clemens was on the 53 man roster for the Jaguars game. He took the spot that opened up when Schaub went on IR.

Huh? What? Kellen Clemens?

I don't recall Clemens being on the Texans. Ever. Wasn't he with the Rams last year?

rolyat93
09-01-2012, 01:57 AM
Huh? What? Kellen Clemens?

I don't recall Clemens being on the Texans. Ever. Wasn't he with the Rams last year?

Right after Schaub went to IR.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7273362/houston-texans-put-matt-schaub-injured-reserve-sign-qb-kellen-clemens

SteveSlaton20
09-01-2012, 02:24 AM
beck > case
forsett > grimes
posey will not be cut imo, even if he doesn't have a good game.
Norris should make the team. Don't think i've seen him since the panthers game tho.

3/4 :)

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2012, 10:55 AM
Right after Schaub went to IR.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7273362/houston-texans-put-matt-schaub-injured-reserve-sign-qb-kellen-clemens

We must have cut him almost immediately because by the end of the year, our backups were Delhomme and Garcia. Pro Football Reference doesn't show him as having been with us. (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ClemKe00.htm) I don't even remember signing him. Of course, my brain cells come and go with the tides, so that doesn't mean much.

SteveSlaton20
09-01-2012, 11:03 AM
no, he actually dressed for a game or two over delhomme and garcia.

ChampionTexan
09-01-2012, 11:05 AM
We must have cut him almost immediately because by the end of the year, our backups were Delhomme and Garcia. Pro Football Reference doesn't show him as having been with us. (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ClemKe00.htm) I don't even remember signing him. Of course, my brain cells come and go with the tides, so that doesn't mean much.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1834243&postcount=55

ChampionTexan
09-01-2012, 11:09 AM
no, he actually dressed for a game or two over delhomme and garcia.

He didn't dress for either of the two games he was on the roster(@ Jacksonville and Atlanta), and Garcia was signed after Clemens was released (The day after, not coincidentally).

speedfreek
09-01-2012, 11:23 AM
Let me explain exactly where your logic is as faulty as a blown fuse in regards to Gary's 2 month evaluation of Case's talent (or the other 31 teams for that matter..)

Allow me to insert one name into your argument for you to chew on..

What did all those college runs get him? NOT DRAFTED

What did those 16 Preseason games passes get him? CUT

We can agree to disagree but at this point it's you saying that all 32 teams are wrong. It doesn't matter what you or I think; the experts have already pegged him.

BTW - Gary has seen way more than 16 runs. To hear you spin it Gary would close his eyes when Arian took a handoff in practice (PRACTICE). Gary being the "expert". Come on man...


Seattle brought Flynn in as decent priced FA. A guy that had the playbook for 2 months beat him out for the STARTING position. Why does Keenum and all his NCAA passing records get a break for not being able to beat out the THIRD string guy? You're 2 month theory holds no water. Sorry.

And Flynn will be sitting on the bench watching Wilson at some point in the regular season. Because Pete gave Russel a ton of opportunities to show what he could do. And just FYI, Wilson is shorter than Keenum and both Russel and Case threw the ball with the exact same velocity at the combine...

That's why you need to tap the brakes on saying because Gary cut him he's never going to be an NFL QB..

TJ

ChampionTexan
09-01-2012, 11:37 AM
Let me explain exactly where your logic is as faulty as a blown fuse in regards to Gary's 2 month evaluation of Case's talent (or the other 31 teams for that matter..)

Allow me to insert one name into your argument for you to chew on..





And Flynn will be sitting on the bench watching Wilson at some point in the regular season. Because Pete gave Russel a ton of opportunities to show what he could do. And just FYI, Wilson is shorter than Keenum and both Russel and Case threw the ball with the exact same velocity at the combine...

That's why you need to tap the brakes on saying because Gary cut him he's never going to be an NFL QB..

TJ

So were you out at all the practices evaluating all the opportunities Case had there - going back to OTA's and Mini-Camp?

Wilson was a 3rd round pick competing with Flynn for the starting position and had roughly the same number of pass attempts in the preseason. Keenum was a UDFA competing with Beck for the #3 QB and had exactly the same number of pass attempts in the preseason.

John Beck had the exact same number of pass attempts as Case, and he looked better (regardless of what you think, he looked better). You made the comment that if Norris had caught Case's pass, and Posey hadn't run for a TD, their stats would be the same. Why don't you say the same thing about the pass from Beck that Norris dropped? Why don't you mention Beck's catchable passes to Martin (for a pretty decent gain) and Jean (for a TD) that weren't caught?

Case may have a bright future in this league - I genuinely hope he does, and I think it's not ridiculous to believe it, but to take the approach to his offseason/preseason that you have simply shows someone who is completely incapable of evaluating QB play, someone completely unaware of his own bias, or both.

b0ng
09-01-2012, 12:03 PM
I don't hate the guy; hope no one is reading that. All I'm saying is that right now, he's not a good fight for us and there are other guys that are.

He has played mistake free football, that is true. A lot of people wanna say he is a gunslinger but flat out you can't be a game manager and a gunslinger.

Idk...I just think once cuts are made we will have better options for that Practice Squad QB. I just don't see Case being that answer.

You're drawing way too many conclusions from 4 games of preseason. I've been saying that Case won't make the 53 for a little bit, but to say he's a wasted spot on the practice squad is just trolling now. There's no way you could definitively say that unless you were on the Texans staff or you are a crazy person.

PapaL
09-01-2012, 01:11 PM
You're drawing way too many conclusions from 4 games of preseason. I've been saying that Case won't make the 53 for a little bit, but to say he's a wasted spot on the practice squad is just trolling now. There's no way you could definitively say that unless you were on the Texans staff or you are a crazy person.

Did you even read what you quoted me on before running your mouth?

...right now, he's not a good fight for us and there are other guys that are.

Given that the Texans Staff actually MADE that call and cut him I don't see how what you quoted me as saying is wrong.

ChampionTexan
09-01-2012, 01:14 PM
Did you even read what you quoted me on before running your mouth?



Given that the Texans Staff actually MADE that call and cut him I don't see how what you quoted me as saying is wrong.

I think he's questioning you're comments about better options for the PS. Keenum will be on the Texans PS (which will also be a call made by the Texans Staff).

PapaL
09-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Let me explain exactly where your logic is as faulty as a blown fuse in regards to Gary's 2 month evaluation of Case's talent (or the other 31 teams for that matter..)

Allow me to insert one name into your argument for you to chew on..


And Flynn will be sitting on the bench watching Wilson at some point in the regular season. Because Pete gave Russel a ton of opportunities to show what he could do. And just FYI, Wilson is shorter than Keenum and both Russel and Case threw the ball with the exact same velocity at the combine...

That's why you need to tap the brakes on saying because Gary cut him he's never going to be an NFL QB..

TJ

Were you there judging the velocity of their throws? Last I saw one of the guys got drafted and beat out a legit QB for a starting spot. The other couldn't beat out John Freaking Beck. Yes the shorter guy.

There's no point in continuing this discussion with you. He lost in a fair competition for the 3rd QB spot.

b0ng
09-01-2012, 01:22 PM
Did you even read what you quoted me on before running your mouth?


"Not a good fight (sic) for us right now." "Will have better options available for practice squad QB."

riiiiiiiiiight.

PapaL
09-01-2012, 01:23 PM
I think he's questioning you're comments about better options for the PS. Keenum will be on the Texans PS (which will also be a call made by the Texans Staff).

To be honest, if he is or isn't I don't really care. We've invested more talking about him than the organization has.

Maybe he is the best we can do for the PS slot. I just want the best possible guy manning the position and not just some local kid.

I haven't looked over the cuts and deciphered who is eligible, I won't lie or randomly pick out some name. I do know that there are some QBs (Kafka, Hoyer) that might be better than our current 3QB.

b0ng
09-01-2012, 01:28 PM
To be honest, if he is or isn't I don't really care. We've invested more talking about him than the organization has.

Maybe he is the best we can do for the PS slot. I just want the best possibly guy manning the position and not just some local kid.

I haven't looked over the cuts and deciphered who is eligible, I won't lie or randomly pick out some name. I do know that there are some QBs (Kafka, Hoyer) that might be better than our current 3QB.

Those guys would take Beck's spot, not Keenum (who would still be on the PS which I'm pretty sure he will be).

PapaL
09-01-2012, 01:29 PM
"Not a good fight (sic) for us right now." "Will have better options available for practice squad QB."

riiiiiiiiiight.

Go ahead...keep reading...

Idk...I just think once cuts are made we will have better options for that Practice Squad QB. I just don't see Case being that answer.

Notice the bold parts? MY opinion. You think differently. Great for you. Want a medal? A cookie? How about a parade? You have your view, I have mine.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2012, 01:29 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1834243&postcount=55

I do not EVEN remember that.

b0ng
09-01-2012, 01:30 PM
Go ahead...keep reading...



Notice the bold parts? MY opinion. You think differently. Great for you. Want a medal? A cookie? How about a parade? You have your view, I have mine.

How exactly did you come to these conclusions? legit curious.

PapaL
09-01-2012, 01:31 PM
Those guys would take Beck's spot, not Keenum (who would still be on the PS which I'm pretty sure he will be).

Is reading comprehension not your thing today? I literally said they would be better 3QB.

ChampionTexan
09-01-2012, 01:33 PM
I do not EVEN remember that.

To be honest, I wouldn't have either, but I went back to the 2011 transaction page to see who was added when Schaub went on IR.

b0ng
09-01-2012, 01:35 PM
Is reading comprehension not your thing today? I literally said they would be better 3QB.

You're jumping from Keenum not being good enough for the P-squad (An opinion you have yet to justify by saying anybody who would even be eligible for the Texans p-squad as a QB, I'll wait for that one) to talking about how Hoyer or Kafka (lol) would be better options at 3QB than Beck. What does that have to do with Keenum, the guy you began your little tirade with in the first place?

PapaL
09-01-2012, 01:40 PM
You're jumping from Keenum not being good enough for the P-squad (An opinion you have yet to justify by saying anybody who would even be eligible for the Texans p-squad as a QB, I'll wait for that one) to talking about how Hoyer or Kafka (lol) would be better options at 3QB than Beck. What does that have to do with Keenum, the guy you began your little tirade with in the first place?

I pulled it out of my rectal cavity.There happy? Regardless of what I say you're going to disagree. Again YOUR opinion vs MINE.

Had you bothered to read what I wrote you would have seen how I brought those players up.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2012, 01:41 PM
Keenum made it to the PS.

escrimador
09-01-2012, 02:22 PM
Keenum made it to the PS.

Of course he would make it. EVERYONE knew he would:roast:

TheDrifter
09-01-2012, 03:00 PM
Keenum made it to the PS.

So all 31 other teams passed on him. Again.

Thorn
09-01-2012, 03:36 PM
So all 31 other teams passed on him. Again.

He didn't have that great of a pre-season, but he has tons of upside to him. A season on the practice squad will help him a lot.

infantrycak
09-01-2012, 04:20 PM
So all 31 other teams passed on him. Again.

If they claim him off waivers they have to agree to give him a league minimum salary and roster spot. You can't claim him off waivers and put him directly on your practice squad. We have no idea how many other teams may have wanted him for their practice squad.

thunderkyss
09-01-2012, 05:57 PM
So all 31 other teams passed on him. Again.

Just like they passed on Arian Foster in the draft & passed on him again prior to getting to our practice squad.

Who were the running backs that Foster couldn't beat out to get on the 53? Slaton, Samkon Gado, & Chris Brown? Travis Henry?

All I'm saying, is that it says nothing about Beck vs Keenum that Case got cut & put on the practise squad. All we can really say about it is that Smith/Kubiak has a strategy, a plan, & for right now it includes both Beck (who is not ps elegible) & Case who is.

The Pencil Neck
09-01-2012, 06:11 PM
It takes some guys some time to develop. Some guys need to work on technique, some guys need to learn work habits, some guys need to get their heads right.

Arian is a great example of someone who needed to get his head right.

Although I've always expected Beck to make it as our 3rd QB and for Case to go to the PS, I do think that Case has what it takes to be a player in this league. I just think he needs more time to develop the skills and techniques necessary.

I think this is a good move for him. I wouldn't be surprised if Case isn't our QB3 next year (if not sooner.)

Thorn
09-01-2012, 06:15 PM
Just like they passed on Arian Foster in the draft & passed on him again prior to getting to our practice squad.

Who were the running backs that Foster couldn't beat out to get on the 53? Slaton, Samkon Gado, & Chris Brown? Travis Henry?

All I'm saying, is that it says nothing about Beck vs Keenum that Case got cut & put on the practise squad. All we can really say about it is that Smith/Kubiak has a strategy, a plan, & for right now it includes both Beck (who is not ps elegible) & Case who is.

After last year, the idea of having 4 QBs at your disposal and practicing the system is probably comforting to everyone.