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Rey
08-27-2012, 10:29 AM
I heard on the radio just now that Newton has been named the starter...

Can anyone confirm this?

Dutchrudder
08-27-2012, 10:30 AM
He was basically the starter at RT in the Saints game, so that's really no surprise. It's not like there is a significant difference between him and Butler anyways.

IDEXAN
08-27-2012, 10:35 AM
He was basically the starter at RT in the Saints game, so that's really no surprise. It's not like there is a significant difference between him and Butler anyways.
See I have to disagree with that, because Kubiak is one of those ole school coachs who'd definitely go with a vet's experience as the tie breaker when all
other parameters are equal between 2 players. In other words I'm thinking the Texans view Newt as just a more talented RT right now, today.

wolf123
08-27-2012, 10:44 AM
No big surprise. Butler just didn't go out there and win the job.

eriadoc
08-27-2012, 10:46 AM
In other words I'm thinking the Texans view Newt as just a more talented RT right now, today.

It's kind of like being the best behaved kid in detention, though.

ChampionTexan
08-27-2012, 10:52 AM
I heard on the radio just now that Newton has been named the starter...

Can anyone confirm this?

Here's a link to the story in the Chronicle:

LINK (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/08/newton-to-start-at-right-tackle-for-texans/)

This really isn't a surprise since not only did Newton start in the third preseason game, Butler played pretty poorly as the #2.

Kubiak had previously (Before the Saints game) said he may use two right tackles during the regular season. I don't know if that's still the case after Saturday, but keep in mind that even if it's not, whoever starts the opener still has to keep the starting position. Just like whatever the 53 man roster is immediately after the cut to 53 could well be different than the 53 man roster that opens the season, and that could well be different than the week two 53 man roster.

SheTexan
08-27-2012, 10:57 AM
I'm worried! That's all I'm gonna say!!

HOU-TEX
08-27-2012, 11:25 AM
I don't like this at all, if true. Niether have played worth a crap. However, when Newton makes mistakes they're huge. He's been given every opportunity to win the job and he hasn't even with Butler making it easier for him. IMO, I'd go with Butler to start the season. If he doesn't run with it then Newton can have his chance.

All that said, I was a big proponent of Butler when Winston was let go. He has disappointed me big time (not that that means diddly).

The Pencil Neck
08-27-2012, 11:27 AM
I heard on the radio just now that Newton has been named the starter...

Can anyone confirm this?

I've been saying this was going to happen. But even in the Saints game, the announcers said that Newton had stepped up and taken the #1 RT spot.

This shouldn't be a huge surprise.

Dutchrudder
08-27-2012, 11:28 AM
See I have to disagree with that, because Kubiak is one of those ole school coachs who'd definitely go with a vet's experience as the tie breaker when all
other parameters are equal between 2 players. In other words I'm thinking the Texans view Newt as just a more talented RT right now, today.

Disagree with what? That there isn't a significant difference between the two or that Newton starting is not a surprise?

In three preseason games so far, I have seen both Butler and Newton:
1. Whiff on pass blocks that resulted in QB hits/sacks.
2. Give up multiple sacks
3. Called for holding penalties

They both appear to be mediocre or worse in the run-game, so that's kind of a wash. The only thing I haven't seen out of Newton that I have in Butler is whiffing on cut blocks. So in that regard, he is probably slightly better than Butler. In any case, as I said a while ago, the right side of our o-line is going to be an issue for us this year. Might as well import a 600 pound sumo wrestler from Japan and put him at RT so the defense has to take an extra three steps to get to the QB.

Speedy
08-27-2012, 11:28 AM
No big surprise. Butler just didn't go out there and win the job.

Neither did Newton.

I'm worried! That's all I'm gonna say!! Ditto!

Rey
08-27-2012, 11:35 AM
I've been saying this was going to happen. But even in the Saints game, the announcers said that Newton had stepped up and taken the #1 RT spot.

This shouldn't be a huge surprise.

I'm not surprised considering that Newton started vs the Saints and to me he has looked like the better player.

I am surprised considering Butler was almost a shoe in and has the experience.

I know a lot of people disagree, but to me Newton has just flat out looked like a better player to me...He's made his fair share of mistakes, but when I say he looks better I mean skill wise. He looks quicker, stronger and more aggressive...So If I'm going to go with a guy that's going to make the mistakes I'd take the one who is physically better and younger with room to improve...

Brandon420tx
08-27-2012, 11:38 AM
I'm not surprised. Butler was brought back to outplay Newton and earn a spot on this team. So far in preseason I didn't really see it. In my opinion Newton did play better than Butler, not much better, but better. Butler is also a better choice for the swing Tackle. I expect Butler to walk to FA land in the offseason and us to draft a rookie with Swing Tackle potential, in which case it's better to get Newton as much game experience right now that we can

ChampionTexan
08-27-2012, 11:43 AM
No big surprise. Butler just didn't go out there and win the job.

Neither did Newton.



Well, given the fact that Butler's been in the league since 2006, participated in numerous off season training programs, numerous training camps, started 4 games and been active for 42, and Newton's entering his second season, just completed his first off season training program, his second training camp, started no games, and been active for 14, it seems pretty obvious that even if it's a dead heat now (and I think Newton's looked slightly better to begin with), which one has the most upside down the road. Also one of them is under contract at a lower cost for a longer period of time.

I know you make the decision based on who the best player is right now, but when there's little to no difference, future upside, and contract considerations validly factor in to that decision.

TheIronDuke
08-27-2012, 11:44 AM
I'm not surprised considering that Newton started vs the Saints and to me he has looked like the better player.

I am surprised considering Butler was almost a shoe in and has the experience.

I know a lot of people disagree, but to me Newton has just flat out looked like a better player to me...He's made his fair share of mistakes, but when I say he looks better I mean skill wise. He looks quicker, stronger and more aggressive...So If I'm going to go with a guy that's going to make the mistakes I'd take the one who is physically better and younger with room to improve...

This plus I'll have faith in Kubes to make a better decision on who starts on the OL over fans anyday.

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-27-2012, 11:57 AM
It is official Newton is the starter. kubiak announced it lasnite in a press conference on channel 13. I like it if anything Rt will be a platoon position between Newton and Butler until someone solidifys they can be the full time starter same thing with Dbo his rookie year when we would bring in ephraim Salam to give him a breather or he wasn't doing so good in the game.

Jackie Chiles
08-27-2012, 12:01 PM
All things being equal as far as their play I'm glad we went with Newton. We know what Butler is, hes been around for quite a while. Newton still has room to grow and I think will be a different player by midseason. Plus we don't have to break in two new guys on the right side of the line again next year.

thunderkyss
08-27-2012, 12:41 PM
I like the decision. I was a fan of Butler's, was rooting for him to win the spot. However, Newton looks like the road grater we need on the right side. He's strong & athletic... & the game doesn't look too big for him.

What mistakes we've seen, can be attributed to having to play both sides & with a revolving door at the spots next to him. Just like Wade Smith when he first got here. He didn't look all that good, hell, he looked like crap in the preseason.

But once the regular season started & the line-up was solidified, he had the best season of his career. I expect Newton to look much better in the regular season.

I'd have said the same thing about Butler, that he would look better in the regular season, but Newton looks more like a RT.

eriadoc
08-27-2012, 12:55 PM
I am getting DirecTV and a DVR today. The irritating thing about that is I didn't have it for the game on Saturday. There was one play where I believe Newton was called for holding. If anyone could post that video, I'd be most appreciative. He flipped the defender completely over. I laughed my ass off at the time. If you're going to hold, that's the way to do it, LOL.

badboy
08-27-2012, 12:59 PM
Is Butler 100% healthy?

thunderkyss
08-27-2012, 01:05 PM
I am getting DirecTV and a DVR today. The irritating thing about that is I didn't have it for the game on Saturday. There was one play where I believe Newton was called for holding. If anyone could post that video, I'd be most appreciative. He flipped the defender completely over. I laughed my ass off at the time. If you're going to hold, that's the way to do it, LOL.

The play I saw he got called for holding, he had his hands outside the defender's shoulders as the RB ran around him. However, the defender didn't make a play on the RB & it didn't "look" like a hold to me. I don't think that gets called in the regular season.

eriadoc
08-27-2012, 01:08 PM
The play I saw he got called for holding, he had his hands outside the defender's shoulders as the RB ran around him. However, the defender didn't make a play on the RB & it didn't "look" like a hold to me. I don't think that gets called in the regular season.

That's not the play I'm thinking of at all then. Maybe it wasn't the holding play, but it was pretty cool, whatever it was.

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-27-2012, 01:11 PM
The game is airing on nfl network right now

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-27-2012, 01:14 PM
Think I just seen the play when he threw 94 on the ground on a foster run

eriadoc
08-27-2012, 01:15 PM
Think I just seen the play when he threw 94 on the ground on a foster run

I don't have NFL Network for another 30 minutes to an hour! Aauugh!

What is the approximate quarter and time of the play?

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-27-2012, 01:17 PM
First quarter think the time was 8.25 left in the quarter

eriadoc
08-27-2012, 01:24 PM
First quarter think the time was 8.25 left in the quarter

Much appreciated! I plan to get the All-22 package, so I should be able to go back and watch it again. If I can figure out how to post video, I will.

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-27-2012, 01:26 PM
No problem

drunkcookie
08-27-2012, 01:54 PM
Was I shocked when I heard this? Absolutely not... but back when camp started, had you told me Newton would get the gig over Butler, I would assume it would be because Butler was injured, or took over at LT after a Brown injury or something...didn't see this back then...

I thought this job was Butler's based on his experience and how well he was able to perform at left-tackle those four games Deewayne missed once upon a time... Very dissapointed that Butler couldn't go grab this job by the junk, because I've always thought of him as better than that...

As far as Newton goes, he has outdone Butler... has he been great? Nope... concerned about the position, but it was for sure the right decision going with Newton...an obvious one from what I've seen this preseason..

76Texan
08-27-2012, 03:53 PM
I am getting DirecTV and a DVR today. The irritating thing about that is I didn't have it for the game on Saturday. There was one play where I believe Newton was called for holding. If anyone could post that video, I'd be most appreciative. He flipped the defender completely over. I laughed my ass off at the time. If you're going to hold, that's the way to do it, LOL.

(9:35 to go in the first) Newton threw the 43 DE to the ground and was called for holding.
Too bad, Foster couldn't make the cut to the right a little sooner.
There's some good blockings on the right side there.

If Foster was able to make that cut, perhaps Newton didn't have to hold. (It was still Newton's fault for losing the first step to the DE though).

pec0sb0b
08-27-2012, 07:38 PM
Next year's first round pick - Jake Matthews, OT Texas A&M

ObsiWan
08-27-2012, 08:04 PM
Well, given the fact that Butler's been in the league since 2006, participated in numerous off season training programs, numerous training camps, started 4 games and been active for 42, and Newton's entering his second season, just completed his first off season training program, his second training camp, started no games, and been active for 14, it seems pretty obvious that even if it's a dead heat now (and I think Newton's looked slightly better to begin with), which one has the most upside down the road. Also one of them is under contract at a lower cost for a longer period of time.

I know you make the decision based on who the best player is right now, but when there's little to no difference, future upside, and contract considerations validly factor in to that decision.

This makes sense to me. Six yrs in the league and Butler has yet to distinguish himself.... All other things being equal, go with the guy with more "upside". And if he also happens to have less salary cap impact, well....

Dutchrudder
08-27-2012, 10:00 PM
Next year's first round pick - Jake Matthews, OT Texas A&M

No way he makes it to 32...

DX-TEX
08-27-2012, 10:26 PM
No way he makes it to 32...

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/18462291.jpg

Brisco_County
08-27-2012, 10:33 PM
I believe Newton does have more upside, and he will be good, but get ready to see some ugly hits on Schaub. I'm not looking forward to the Bills game now.

Texn4life
08-27-2012, 10:42 PM
I'm in the minority somewhat, but Newton hasn't been close to being what I thought he'd be. Gary talked about how raw he was and he is a little raw, but i see what he likes in him. He'll only get more comfortable now I think knowing he is the man and doesn't have to press. Playing on the line is kind of like anything else in you have to get in a lot of work in and he'll find his rhythm. Then the game will start to slow down for him. Newton will be fine.

76Texan
08-28-2012, 01:02 AM
I'm in the minority somewhat, but Newton hasn't been close to being what I thought he'd be. Gary talked about how raw he was and he is a little raw, but i see what he likes in him. He'll only get more comfortable now I think knowing he is the man and doesn't have to press. Playing on the line is kind of like anything else in you have to get in a lock of work in and he'll find his rhythm. Then the game will start to slow down for him. Newton will be fine.

They may have Butler play every 3rd series for a while like they did with D. Brown his rookie year.

Newton most likely will have a few bumps along the road just like D. Brown did, but in the long term, it looks to me like he will be OK.

After rewatching the game several times, I feel quite comfortable with the O-line.

Graham also had a good game blocking.

We did have 240 yards and 24 points in the first half, after all.

The one time we were stopped short on 3rd and 2, it was with Ben Jones at C with the first team late in the half.
He did well overall, but on that play, he and Smith didn't have any push at all on the double-team block (and D. Brown whiffed as well).

Give the kids sometimes, I think that by the end of the year, we won't feel the sting of loosing Brisiel, Winston, and Dreessen (Or at least the sting will lessen).

I think we're good to go.

Texn4life
08-28-2012, 01:13 AM
They may have Butler play every 3rd series for a while like they did with D. Brown his rookie year.

Kubiak said today he doesn't want to do that with him. He said he's going to hand it to him and let him go with it. Of course it wouldn't be the first time he's been dishonest, but I think he'll only take him out if he's injured of if he's just getting his butt kicked in a game. He's going to roll the pocket so much, protect him and give him help in every way possible that I don't think it'll be as big a factor as most are making out of it.

kiwitexansfan
08-28-2012, 05:42 AM
I am concerned also.

One thing about great line play is that time playing together can take an average line and make it a good line and a good line to a great line etc.

Hopefully we can put the same 5 guys out there for 16 games and when business time comes I think they'll have things together enough to make things work.

Bulls on Parade
08-28-2012, 05:45 AM
Is there anybody that can be had before the trading deadline?

silentassassin
08-28-2012, 09:45 AM
I am concerned also.

One thing about great line play is that time playing together can take an average line and make it a good line and a good line to a great line etc.

Hopefully we can put the same 5 guys out there for 16 games and when business time comes I think they'll have things together enough to make things work.

I think that's key. I'm prepared for some minor growing pains, but I don't think it'll be THAT bad.

Worst case scenario, we lean on the passing game a little bit more. I get nervous every time the line the has go into pass protection, but they'll get through it.

Goatcheese
08-28-2012, 11:49 AM
Laser Face on replacing Winston with Newton:

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/rivers-worst-day-ever.gif

badboy
08-29-2012, 10:57 AM
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/08/rt-newton-most-recent-testament-to-the-tutelage-of-benton/

Now there’s Newton. A seventh-round pick in 2011 from Arkansas State, he won his battle with eight-year veteran Rashad Butler and will be the starting right tackle in the season opener against Miami a week from Sunday.

“I was excited,” Newton said of getting the good news. “I could have jumped for joy.”

If Newton progresses from here as expected — head coach Gary Kubiak says the Texans see things in the 24-year-old “that give him the chance to be a great player, not just a good player” — Benton should consider going on straight commission.

“The work John has done here in Houston has been exceptional,” Kubiak said.

I enjoyed this entire article.

GP
08-29-2012, 11:26 AM
Does anybody think Phillip Rivers could dominate in Kubiak's offense? The attitude, the arm, the veteran presence. I just think he's in a bad offensive scheme, tbh.

He has the goods.

bhsman
08-29-2012, 02:02 PM
Does anybody think Phillip Rivers could dominate in Kubiak's offense? The attitude, the arm, the veteran presence. I just think he's in a bad offensive scheme, tbh.

He has the goods.

He's being wasted under that coach and manager of theirs, much like the rest of the team.

HOU-TEX
08-29-2012, 02:25 PM
I thought Newton might've grown on me a little since the decision was made, but he hasn't. I've re-watched a couple games and I still feel the same. Kubiak spoke of his inconsistency and it's obvious during games. One series he'd do just fine, the next he'd get blown up or beat badly. Do we want someone this inconsistent on gameday? Butler wasn't great, but he wasn't beat out.

I reckon the optimistic way to look at it is he's on the right side. Schaub might be able to see the pressure before getting plastered.

BigBull17
08-29-2012, 03:07 PM
I think a guy like Rivers would be ungodly here. We do good things on offense with Schaubs limitations imagine an elite level Qb here. Scary stuff.

HOU-TEX
08-29-2012, 03:16 PM
I think a guy like Rivers would be ungodly here. We do good things on offense with Schaubs limitations imagine an elite level Qb here. Scary stuff.

lol

badboy
08-29-2012, 05:33 PM
I thought Newton might've grown on me a little since the decision was made, but he hasn't. I've re-watched a couple games and I still feel the same. Kubiak spoke of his inconsistency and it's obvious during games. One series he'd do just fine, the next he'd get blown up or beat badly. Do we want someone this inconsistent on gameday? Butler wasn't great, but he wasn't beat out.

I reckon the optimistic way to look at it is he's on the right side. Schaub might be able to see the pressure before getting plastered.

Did not Duane Brown have same problem first year he started? I say give Newton a few games under his belt. It's not like we have a lot of alternatives.

Texn4life
08-29-2012, 05:38 PM
Did not Duane Brown have same problem first year he started? I say give Newton a few games under his belt. It's not like we have a lot of alternatives.

This! I don't why everyone was expecting a fine tuned, polished player at the position. Like I said earlier in the thread, the game will start to slow down and his confidence is only going to grow from here. I understand we live in the age of instant results, but lets at least wait until after the 1st quarter of the REGULAR season before well go all out freak out mode on guys.

thunderkyss
10-11-2012, 11:16 PM
I was just thinking, KDub has been having a pretty decent year so far. So has Owen. Like everyone else, I was thinking OD is "finally" looking like his old self. I was also thinking, " 'bout time KDub got open"

Then I got to thinking... Schaub has had some nice pockets to work in & plenty of time to do wat he do.

Now, Derek Newton hasn't done anything to blow my socks off. I watch him every now & then & I'm like...... eh... But he & Caldwell are having a hell of a quite season so far. Has any of our OL had a false start yet? Other than that Dumerville safety... has he looked woefully out-matched yet?

I know he doesn't have his own radio show, & neither he or Caldwell look like the Caveman or Brisiel in the run game, but like I said, helluva quite season so far.

Lucky
10-11-2012, 11:23 PM
I know he doesn't have his own radio show, & neither he or Caldwell look like the Caveman or Brisiel in the run game, but like I said, helluva quite season so far.
Seems to me that Ryan Harris is getting more snaps at RT as the season wears on.

76Texan
10-12-2012, 12:50 AM
I was just thinking, KDub has been having a pretty decent year so far. So has Owen. Like everyone else, I was thinking OD is "finally" looking like his old self. I was also thinking, " 'bout time KDub got open"

Then I got to thinking... Schaub has had some nice pockets to work in & plenty of time to do wat he do.

Now, Derek Newton hasn't done anything to blow my socks off. I watch him every now & then & I'm like...... eh... But he & Caldwell are having a hell of a quite season so far. Has any of our OL had a false start yet? Other than that Dumerville safety... has he looked woefully out-matched yet?

I know he doesn't have his own radio show, & neither he or Caldwell look like the Caveman or Brisiel in the run game, but like I said, helluva quite season so far.Yes, Newton had been called for False Start 3 times and holding once. He was "officially" charged with one sack allowed.
D. Brown had 1 False Start.
W. Smith was charged with one sack allowed.

The rest of the linemen have been in the clear so far.

Eric Winston averaged some 5+ penalties and 6.5+ sacks allowed per year (pro-rated to full participation in 16 games per season.)

Brisiel average nearly 6 penalties and 2 sacks allowed per year (again, counting as if he was playing full-time.)

Both Caldwell and Newton are doing just fine.

I will get to the snap counts some other time.
It's not quite like what Lucky suggested.

thunderkyss
10-12-2012, 02:40 AM
I will get to the snap counts some other time.
It's not quite like what Lucky suggested.

I don't know if snap count will "suggest" what we'd like for it to suggest. They're getting subbed on a series basis, if one guy gets subbed in when we start at the 6 (damn Holliday) & the other guy starts at their 49, one is going to get more snaps than the other & it not be reflective of who is playing better.


Of course, if Newton is playing two series to Harris's one, it should be overwhelmingly in Newton's favor.

HOU-TEX
10-12-2012, 10:28 AM
I haven't noticed him every play. I've only re-watched the 1st couple of games, but to me, Newton stinks at cutting the backside.

leebigeztx
10-12-2012, 11:07 AM
I think what the ol coach and kubes are doing should be done throughout the league. Think about the subbing theyve done with the young players. They get guys ready to play and keep themselves in a good position. They did the same with duane brown and he's turned out to be one of the best lt in the game. The texans are in position with systems on both sides to not overpay players or cut bait when they have to. Newton and caldwell arent playing at a pro bowl level, but neither are briesel and winston either.

76Texan
10-12-2012, 12:26 PM
I don't know if snap count will "suggest" what we'd like for it to suggest. They're getting subbed on a series basis, if one guy gets subbed in when we start at the 6 (damn Holliday) & the other guy starts at their 49, one is going to get more snaps than the other & it not be reflective of who is playing better.


Of course, if Newton is playing two series to Harris's one, it should be overwhelmingly in Newton's favor.

It's somewhere in between these lines ^^^.

The Texans have been using Harris to spell Newton whenever they think he needs a rest.

In the Broncos game, Newton played the entire first half (6 series, 32 snaps.)

In the second half, he played the first two series (10 snaps.)

Harris then came in for two series (8 snaps.)

Newton played the next series (7 snaps.)
Overall, he played in 9 series and 49 snaps.
(There's some discrepancies with the numbers from Football Outsiders.
They showed Newton with 51 snaps.
I believe they count the two penalties on Newton as plays.)

Harris finished out the game, playing the last two series (9 snaps.)
Overall, Harris played in 4 series and 17 snaps.

Basically, the Texans figured Newton had had plenty of snaps so they let Harris spell him mostly in the later part of the game.

...
The substition pattern would be different in the next two games.

Against the Titans, in the first half, Newton played in the first 3 series (20 snaps) and the fifth series (7 snaps.)

Harris came in for the 4th series (3 snaps) and 6th series (3 snaps.)

In the second half, Newton was in for the first two series (10 snaps)and the 4th series (4 snaps.)
Harris played the 3rd series (11 snaps).

Overall, Newton played in 7 series and 41 snaps.
Harris played in 3 series and 17 snaps.

That's not counting the last series when both of them were in there (with D. Brown out of the line-up). The Texans were in victory formation for 2 snaps to end the game.

...

Against the Jets;

In the first half, Newton played the first 3 series plus the last two series (total 25 snaps.)
Harris played the 4th and 5th series (total 9 snaps.)

In the second half, Newton played the first series (14 snaps) and the 3rd and 4th series (3 and 4 snaps respectively).
Harris played the 2nd and 5th series (total 11 snaps.)

Overall, Newton played 8 series and 46 snaps.
Harris played 4 series and 20 snaps.
(Football Outsiders had them as 47 and 19 - maybe there was one play Newton was in there in place of Harris that I missed.)

....

In summary, for every series that Harris played, Newton would play at least two series.

Newton played in 24 series to Harris 11.