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View Full Version : McNair PLEASE retract your statement about replacement refs


gafftop
08-23-2012, 06:48 PM
C'mon Bob I know you are taking the company line but I sure don't hear alot of the other owners making comments " no difference to me between replacement and real refs"

Did the other owners nominate you to be the spokesman? Did they tell you it would be a good idea to say that? It isn't a good idea. Don't trust them.

Anybody old enough to remember Renfro in the endzone for the Oilers and how big an effect the call made by the ref changed the game. We might have been waiting for our 2nd Super Bowl now if that call had gone the other way. We just think we have been getting a bad deal from the refs.

The real Refs are coming back.
The real Refs are human.
The real Refs have memories.
Why would you piss them off with the comment you made????

I think we may feel the payback from that comment somtime/s during the season.

If I were you I would backtrack and say " What I meant to say is ....."
Whatever you need to say to get the real refs on YOUR/Texans side.

Trust me we want them on our side not against us.

Just my opinion.

rmartin65
08-23-2012, 06:57 PM
While I think I understand McNair's motivation behind the statement, it was not a wise one. The replacements suck, and when the real guys come back, it will not help the Texans' cause to have McNair's statement on record. It may not hurt, but it wont help.

texanhead08
08-23-2012, 08:50 PM
Its just collective bargaining the league has been told not to rip these replacement refs. Its called negotiations.

Lucky
08-23-2012, 09:20 PM
Its just collective bargaining the league has been told not to rip these replacement refs. Its called negotiations.
Then Bob should let Roger handle the negotiations and shut up. Flat out dumb.

Corrosion
08-23-2012, 09:24 PM
Bob was better off with a "no comment".

Kinda like me posting drunk .... Im better off woth "no post."

Texan_Bill
08-23-2012, 09:39 PM
Cheese and rice people , this isn't the first time I've seen an ox in the ditch!! :kitten:

BullPenPhotos
08-23-2012, 09:45 PM
Well...You wouldn't want to have the "real" officials think that they are so much better because none of them are like this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vctpSLt-Xfo

Texan_Bill
08-23-2012, 09:49 PM
C'mon Bob I know you are taking the company line but I sure don't hear alot of the other owners making comments " no difference to me between replacement and real refs"

Did the other owners nominate you to be the spokesman? Did they tell you it would be a good idea to say that? It isn't a good idea. Don't trust them.

Anybody old enough to remember Renfro in the endzone for the Oilers and how big an effect the call made by the ref changed the game. We might have been waiting for our 2nd Super Bowl now if that call had gone the other way. We just think we have been getting a bad deal from the refs.

The real Refs are coming back.
The real Refs are human.
The real Refs have memories.
Why would you piss them off with the comment you made????

I think we may feel the payback from that comment somtime/s during the season.

If I were you I would backtrack and say " What I meant to say is ....."
Whatever you need to say to get the real refs on YOUR/Texans side.

Trust me we want them on our side not against us.

Just my opinion.

Wait, what?? You're so superhuman that you've never said anything that
BTW, didn't come out completely how you meant it??

In addition, Bob McNair is a business owner. Whether you agree or disagree with his comments, it's his business. Not yours, not mine!! You and I have the choice to agree or disagree, be a fan or not be a fan... That decision is on you!

*EDIT*

Maybe Gafftop, I misunderstood your point (AND there's a huge that could be the case, so don't get too indignent).

Lucky
08-23-2012, 09:54 PM
In addition, Bob McNair is a business owner. Whether you agree or disagree with his comments, it's his business.
Yes, but I'm his customer. And I have the right to complain when his comments could affect the product I pay for. If McNair's the sharp businessman he's purported to be, he'd zip it.

HJam72
08-24-2012, 12:14 AM
Bob was better off with a "no comment".

Kinda like me posting drunk .... Im better off woth "no post."

I post better when I'm drunk. :tomato:

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2012, 09:19 AM
Somehow, I get real sceeeeered when Bob agrees with Jeruh.:scare:

SheTexan
08-24-2012, 09:34 AM
Yes, but I'm his customer. And I have the right to complain when his comments could affect the product I pay for. If McNair's the sharp businessman he's purported to be, he'd zip it.

Until they do, you don't have a right to complain!!! JMO! If you don't like the OWNER of the product, don't buy it! Remember Chick-fil-A? Liz Claybourn? JC Penny? ETC? Some folks don't like what the owners had to say so they quit buying the product. Not trying to argue, just saying it's HIS multibillion buck franchise and he can say what he wants.

silentassassin
08-24-2012, 09:43 AM
Somehow, I get real sceeeeered when Bob agrees with Jeruh.:scare:

They're in agreement more often than not, aren't they? :laughjump:

TexansFanatic
08-24-2012, 09:45 AM
Anybody old enough to remember Renfro in the endzone for the Oilers and how big an effect the call made by the ref changed the game. We might have been waiting for our 2nd Super Bowl now if that call had gone the other way.

I'm old enough to remember that game and while I appreciate your sense of injustice about that particular play, the truth is that the Steelers manhandled the Oilers that day. They held Earl to 15 yards on 17 carries. That's not a typo. Earl Campbell. 15 yards for the day. 1.13 yards per carry.

The Steelers had 22 first downs to Houston's 11. The Oilers had 3 turnovers to the Steelers 2. The Oilers had 227 total yards to the Steelers 358.

Yes, Renfro caught a touchdown that would have tied the game in the third quarter if it had been properly counted, but the Steelers deserved to win that game. I have no doubt they would have won that game even if Renfro's catch had counted.

Renfro's Touchdown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gCFx5jC_q4)

rmartin65
08-24-2012, 09:52 AM
Until they do, you don't have a right to complain!!! JMO! If you don't like the OWNER of the product, don't buy it! Remember Chick-fil-A? Liz Claybourn? JC Penny? ETC? Some folks don't like what the owners had to say so they quit buying the product. Not trying to argue, just saying it's HIS multibillion buck franchise and he can say what he wants.

Then dont complain about Winston and Big B getting released.

disaacks3
08-24-2012, 09:52 AM
Considering the officials have already publicly come out and said that they have long memories and that the replacement refs will never be forgiven, I'm not sure I'd twist the tail of those whose judgments could make/break my football team.

HOU-TEX
08-24-2012, 09:57 AM
Meh, ask any owner what they think of replacement refs and the answer will be the same. What else should we expect them to say when it's NFL (owners) vs refs

Are they right? Heck no, the refs suck. It's like believing anything that was said during the lockout last season. All BS

Rey
08-24-2012, 10:04 AM
I heard the interview McNair did on tv about the refs and I didn't hear him say that. Matter of fact his line of thought seemed to be about what I felt about the situation.

He said that the Regular refs were obviously better, but he felt like the replacements were doing ok considering the circumstances and he felt like the longer they ref'd NFL games the better they'd get.

He felt like the replacements were being over analyzed in SOME cases even when they made mistakes that the reg refs make at times.

Basically he
1) made it clear reg refs were better
2) thought the replacements could/should improve with more experience
3) thought they were criticized too harshly at times

Double Barrel
08-24-2012, 10:29 AM
Considering the officials have already publicly come out and said that they have long memories and that the replacement refs will never be forgiven, I'm not sure I'd twist the tail of those whose judgments could make/break my football team.

Then I guess it's in our best interests as Texans fans at this point to hope that the NFL keeps the regular officials locked out and we benefit from the recent memories of the scab refs in regular season games.

Maybe Bob knows something we don't, like the NFL might be willing to 'sacrifice' the 2012 season in order to get what they ultimately want: full time job officials and accountability among officials without the union breaking their balls about it.

disaacks3
08-24-2012, 10:34 AM
Then I guess it's in our best interests as Texans fans at this point to hope that the NFL keeps the regular officials locked out and we benefit from the recent memories of the scab refs in regular season games.

Maybe Bob knows something we don't, like the NFL might be willing to 'sacrifice' the 2012 season in order to get what they ultimately want: full time job officials and accountability among officials without the union breaking their balls about it. I'm not losing sleep over this, but every little bit helps. Why taunt the lion if that cage might come open?

I wonder about the bolded as well. Considering the harebrained things coming out (suggestions of one official on the field and the rest handled in the booth comes to mind), I worry that the NFL cares less about the games than the outcome of their negotiation.

Double Barrel
08-24-2012, 10:55 AM
I'm not losing sleep over this, but every little bit helps. Why taunt the lion if that cage might come open?

I wonder about the bolded as well. Considering the harebrained things coming out (suggestions of one official on the field and the rest handled in the booth comes to mind), I worry that the NFL cares less about the games than the outcome of their negotiation.

I'm not losing sleep, either. I was just being silly with the concerns about McNair's statements impacting games. I certainly hope there is not that much bias among the regular officials. If that's the case, then I'm rooting for the scabs. ;)

I do think the NFL is going to play hardball for the long haul with this situation. Based on the differences with both sides and the ultimate goals of the NFL, I think they have a clear upper hand right now. And from what I understand, their demands are things that many fans have been clamoring to happen for many years. Full time refs and accountability being two of the main points.

The NFL just needs the scab refs to avoid controversy, because if fans aren't rioting, then the regular refs have an uphill battle without momentum.

Yankee_In_TX
08-24-2012, 10:59 AM
Boomer said the 2 min issues are:

(1) the League wants 7-10 full time refs, who would review fil Monday, Tuesday and Friday after games and be a liason for making sure rules are properly enforce and recommnding changes - the Ref Assoc says Hell no

(2) the League wants to add 3 more crews and the ability to remove refs from the rotation who suck - the Ref Assoc says Hell no

Thorn
08-24-2012, 12:16 PM
Boomer said the 2 min issues are:

(1) the League wants 7-10 full time refs, who would review fil Monday, Tuesday and Friday after games and be a liason for making sure rules are properly enforce and recommnding changes - the Ref Assoc says Hell no

(2) the League wants to add 3 more crews and the ability to remove refs from the rotation who suck - the Ref Assoc says Hell no

My first reaction to that is, I'm not seeing anything wrong with those ideas.

drunkcookie
08-24-2012, 12:49 PM
There is really nothing to see here... Had McNair expanded on the comments by directly addressing the "actual" NFL refs in a negative way then yes: Problem. I think any rational "actual" ref would see that comment and come to the conclusion McNair is just walking a line...

Better off saying nothing? Of course, that's always the better option, but anyone can see that was a "company line" comment...

Joe Texan
08-24-2012, 01:20 PM
Then dont complain about Winston and Big B getting released.

Stfu and leave her be what she says is golden. And if you don't like what Bob said then move to your own outhouse in Tennessee.

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2012, 01:20 PM
Boomer said the 2 min issues are:

(1) the League wants 7-10 full time refs, who would review fil Monday, Tuesday and Friday after games and be a liason for making sure rules are properly enforce and recommnding changes - the Ref Assoc says Hell no

(2) the League wants to add 3 more crews and the ability to remove refs from the rotation who suck - the Ref Assoc says Hell no

My first reaction to that is, I'm not seeing anything wrong with those ideas.


This may help clarify the answers to some questions in everyone's minds.:

The NFL Referees Association has responded to the recent statements by the NFL with the formal statement below:

Over the last two weeks the NFL and Ray Anderson, its Executive Vice President, have made or published statements regarding negotiations between the NFL and NFL Referees Association (NFLRA) which are false and/or misleading. The FACTS are set forth below.



1. NFL Statement: The NFL wants to hire three additional crews to provide current officials with more rest and to provide the league with more options. The NFLRA opposes this concept.

FACTS: The NFL’s proposal to add twenty-one (21) additional officials without increasing the aggregate compensation allocated among all officials constitutes a major REDUCTION in the NFL’s proposal to the NFLRA. This reduction was threatened by the NFL when they locked out the NFLRA officials on June 3, 2012. The increase in the number of officials was first proposed by the NFL to the NFLRA by letter dated July 19, 2012 and had never been mentioned in the preceding ten (10) months of negotiations. It is clear that this proposal is a negotiating tactic to attempt to divert attention from the real issues.

2. NFL Statement: The concepts of “full time” officials and additional officials are two major stumbling blocks in the current dispute.

FACTS: The issues of “full time” officials and additional officials have never been serious issues in the negotiations. The NFLRA is not opposed to full time officials if they are fairly compensated. While the NFL has never made any compensation proposal, comparable positions in other professional sports at the 20 year level earn approximately $350,000 to $400,000 and are provided health insurance, a pension, time-off with pay and numerous other benefits.

Likewise, the NFLRA does not oppose the hiring of additional officials. However, it is not reasonable or fair to add officials with no corresponding increase in aggregate pay as the NFL has proposed. The last CBA established procedures for hiring and compensating additional officials. The NFL now wants to abandon these procedures in order to impose a punitive pay cut.

3. NFL Statement: The league has repeatedly stated that in its current proposal a typical official would receive a 5 to 11% pay increase.

FACTS: The NFL’s proposal provided to the NFLRA Negotiating Team includes aggregate game fee compensation increases of 2.82% per year, not the rates publicly claimed by the League. In fact, the NFL’s proposal does not contain any salary schedule. Rather it contains aggregate game fees for all officials to be paid per a schedule to be developed by the NFLRA.

4. NFL Statement: Their pension proposal has been aggressively fair.

FACTS: The NFL’s proposal on the referees’ pension plan has been unchanged during the entire 10 months of negotiations – to immediately freeze and ultimately terminate the plan. The NFLRA made a major concession by offering to “grandfather” the defined benefit plan only for current officials. This concession typically “settles” the pension issue in almost all negotiations, but the NFL has refused to discuss it even though 18 teams continue to maintain defined benefit plans for their employees.

SUMMARY

The real question is why has the NFL maintained its “take it or leave it” stand and refused to change its position on the core economic issues during past ten (10) months of negotiations? It certainly is not because they can’t afford it. NFL revenues increased from $6.5 billion to $9.3 billion during the last contract period and are expected to increase in the near term to $12 to $14 billion.

The difference in aggregate compensation requested by the NFLRA and offered by the NFL are insignificant compared to NFL revenues. In the 2012 season the difference is about $2.2 million and over the five (5) year term proposed by the NFLRA about $16.5 million in total. That breaks down to $500,000 per team over five (5) years or $100,000 per team per year. This means the compensation issue could be resolved for $6,000 per game for each team! Why would the NFL jeopardize the health and safety of it players and the integrity of the game for such a modest amount?

The NFLRA has requested aggregate compensation increases less than what the NFL and NFLRA agreed to in the 2006 CBA agreement and the continuation of the defined benefit pension plan for current officials. At a time when the NFL demands that its officials maintain the highest level of integrity and serve as guardians of the game by impartial enforcement of the rules, the NFLRA believes its professional members are entitled to fair treatment in return.link (http://www.proplayerinsiders.com/nfl-referees-respond-to-nfl-inaccuracies/)

Yankee_In_TX
08-24-2012, 01:28 PM
This may help clarify the answers to some questions in everyone's minds.:

link (http://www.proplayerinsiders.com/nfl-referees-respond-to-nfl-inaccuracies/)

Oy, sounds like politicians, someone is lying, lol.

ObsiWan
08-24-2012, 01:34 PM
This may help clarify the answers to some questions in everyone's minds.:

link (http://www.proplayerinsiders.com/nfl-referees-respond-to-nfl-inaccuracies/)

Thanks for the link.
This certainly doesn't paint the owners in a favorable light. I'd like to see an official rebuttal from the owners' side of the table.

gwallaia
08-25-2012, 10:33 PM
Has anyone else noticed that many times these refs are not spotting the ball correctly? On several occasions I have noticed them place the ball 1 yard short or 1 yard long. I watch precisely where the ball carrier goes down and I swear they are not always marking the spot correctly.

I have noticed this in several of the pre-season games around the league.

eriadoc
08-25-2012, 10:37 PM
Has anyone else noticed that many times these refs are not spotting the ball correctly? On several occasions I have noticed them place the ball 1 yard short or 1 yard long. I watch precisely where the ball carrier goes down and I swear they are not always marking the spot correctly.

I have noticed this in several of the pre-season games around the league.

Yep, I've noticed. They're awful.

CloakNNNdagger
08-25-2012, 10:41 PM
UH, I don't know.......do you???????

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Icm1jc5gHWFm7WGM1bV9QA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnflexperts/yahoo_uhrefs.jpg

gwallaia
08-25-2012, 10:42 PM
UH, I don't know.......do you???????

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Icm1jc5gHWFm7WGM1bV9QA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnflexperts/yahoo_uhrefs.jpg

As a UH supporter, I do not appreciate that comment.

CloakNNNdagger
08-25-2012, 10:48 PM
As a UH supporter, I do not appreciate that comment.

I just knew someone would "misinterpret" and get me for that. FWIW.....I, too am a UH supporter (please don't misinterpret the last part of the statement also):handshake:.