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badboy
08-22-2012, 06:55 PM
Probably some shockers and as always some guys that lead to debate ( I hope). As always I ask you to read the entire thread rather than criticize why I did not select your guy or position when you wanted. My picks are where I see the player today and some of course will rise and some will slide.

1. #28 CB Xavier Rhodes Florida St. 6'1" 217 4.54 His late season knee injury concerns but early August he was back on field with some limitations. He has a year to get 100% & if needs to can convert to safety. I've watched this kid last season and mocked him coming out. I'll explain my picks later.

2. S Robert Lester Alabama 6'2" 210 4.5 another guy I mocked last year. He seems to have nose for ball and with some of his defensive sidekicks leaving he should get more attention.

3. A) WR Marcus Davis Virginia Tech 6'4" 228 4.37 mostly a straight ahead fast deep threat. Little production but 43" vert and 17 ypc.

3.B) TE C J Fiedorowicz Iowa 6'7" 265 Good soft hands and a very good blocker.

4. QB Zac Dysert Miami, Ohio 6'3" 228 3,513 yds, 66% 23 TDs to 11 INTs May seem too high but by end of season could be a third rounder.

5 A) NT Mister Cobble Kentucky 6' 332 I thought he'd come out last season but returned. Known as a "bowling ball" he came on strong late last season.

5. B) ILB Andrew Jackson W. Kentucky 6'1" 262 109 tackles 3.5 sacks one fumble and one int

6. Blaize Foltz TCU 6'4" 310 a true right guard

7. LaAdrian Waddle Texas Tech 6'6" 332 started LT 2 years

Wolf6151
08-23-2012, 12:58 AM
Finally a mock to critique, it's been a while. Props for putting one out this time of year.

1. Rhodes, I like the player but not for the Texans. I don't think his size and lack of speed will transition to the NFL well and that he'll be a FS at the next level. I think he'll eventually be a very good FS, I just don't see the need for a 1st round FS on the Texans at this time.
2. Lester, Wow very surprised that you have our first 2 picks being in the secondary especially since our secondary is young, talented, and seems to be playing well at this time. I'm not against the pick, I like the player and think he's talented and would be a very good value in the late 2nd round. I just expect our 1st and 2nd round picks to be starters or very close to it and don't see the need for upgrades in the Safety positions. I don't think Quin or Manning are going anywhere, but Lester would be a definite upgrade in our depth at Safety.
3. Davis, I don't know anything about him but thanks for throwing another name out there for me to keep an eye on and research. I like his size and speed and WR is certainly a need.
3b. Fiedorowicz, I don't know anything about him either but overall I'm not impressed by next years class of TE's. I agree with the need at the position though, I can see a scenario where OD is a salary cap casualty. I really like his size, finally a big TE.
4. Dysert, I don't know anything about this guy either but really don't see the need for another mid round QB at this time with Yates and Keenum on the squad.
5. Cobble, I remember you mocking him last year and I questioned his athleticism at his size. I agree with the need at the position, someone to work in rotation with Mitchell at NT. Some size on the D-line is always a good thing, but I think it's a higher priority like 2nd or 3rd round.
5b. Jackson, don't know much about this guy but I like the size and productivity. He'd compete with Louiseau for a roster spot next year and either would solidify our depth at ILB.
6. Foltz, good OG depth if still available this late. I really liked your Alvin Bailey pick from a couple months ago.
7. Waddle, OT is a definite need but I think it's a higher priority, 3rd or 4th round. I like what I read about the guy but his listed speed at 5.3 is awfully slow for an OT and he might be a better fit at OG. If he can lose some weight and gain speed and agility, he might wind up being a good pick.

SAMURAITEXAN
08-23-2012, 02:44 AM
I would like for the Texans to look into OL and ILB position as I still have a big question about our OL this year and also, ILB James isn't getting younger. Should the Texans decided to draft the above mentioned positions, they will likely be drafted somewhere between 2nd-5th rds. Wade likely get his another wish in the 1st rd.

Go Texans!!!

rmartin65
08-23-2012, 09:51 AM
Probably some shockers and as always some guys that lead to debate ( I hope). As always I ask you to read the entire thread rather than criticize why I did not select your guy or position when you wanted. My picks are where I see the player today and some of course will rise and some will slide.

1. #28 CB Xavier Rhodes Florida St. 6'1" 217 4.54 His late season knee injury concerns but early August he was back on field with some limitations. He has a year to get 100% & if needs to can convert to safety. I've watched this kid last season and mocked him coming out. I'll explain my picks later.

2. S Robert Lester Alabama 6'2" 210 4.5 another guy I mocked last year. He seems to have nose for ball and with some of his defensive sidekicks leaving he should get more attention.

3. A) WR Marcus Davis Virginia Tech 6'4" 228 4.37 mostly a straight ahead fast deep threat. Little production but 43" vert and 17 ypc.

3.B) TE C J Fiedorowicz Iowa 6'7" 265 Good soft hands and a very good blocker.

4. QB Zac Dysert Miami, Ohio 6'3" 228 3,513 yds, 66% 23 TDs to 11 INTs May seem too high but by end of season could be a third rounder.

5 A) NT Mister Cobble Kentucky 6' 332 I thought he'd come out last season but returned. Known as a "bowling ball" he came on strong late last season.

5. B) ILB Andrew Jackson W. Kentucky 6'1" 262 109 tackles 3.5 sacks one fumble and one int

6. Blaize Foltz TCU 6'4" 310 a true right guard

7. LaAdrian Waddle Texas Tech 6'6" 332 started LT 2 years

1) I like Rhodes, but I dont want to go CB (or FS) in the first. JJo is a grade A starter, KJax is looking good so far, Harris is ready to see the field, etc. I am not opposed to looking for a CB in the middle to late rounds, but I think we could add some talent to a position we actually need to upgrade, or will need to upgrade in the near future (ILB, NT, WR, TE, QB).

2) If Lester is there, and providing we DONT go DB in the first, I am down with this pick. Outside of our starters, we dont have a lot of talent at safety.

3) Project WR pick with great athleticism and upside. Cant dislike that! I am concerned though, that he is similar to the receivers we already have on the roster, in that he is a project player.

3) Fiedo! If he is here, you run to the podium. However, I think he goes in the second at the latest. It's early in the process, but I see him being a HUGE riser next year. Massive.

4) I like Dysert, and I like looking for a QB. Sign me up.

5) I like Cobble, but will he come out this year? Only a RS Junior, it is uncommon (though not unheard of) for players with eligibility to leave school if they are not being looked at in the first few rounds.

5) I dont know anything about Jackson, but I like the position. Same question mark about him coming out of school though.

6) OL depth, sounds good.

7) OL depth, sounds good.

badboy
08-23-2012, 03:01 PM
Finally a mock to critique, it's been a while. Props for putting one out this time of year.

1. Rhodes, I like the player but not for the Texans. I don't think his size and lack of speed will transition to the NFL well and that he'll be a FS at the next level. I think he'll eventually be a very good FS, I just don't see the need for a 1st round FS on the Texans at this time.
2. Lester, Wow very surprised that you have our first 2 picks being in the secondary especially since our secondary is young, talented, and seems to be playing well at this time. I'm not against the pick, I like the player and think he's talented and would be a very good value in the late 2nd round. I just expect our 1st and 2nd round picks to be starters or very close to it and don't see the need for upgrades in the Safety positions. I don't think Quin or Manning are going anywhere, but Lester would be a definite upgrade in our depth at Safety.
3. Davis, I don't know anything about him but thanks for throwing another name out there for me to keep an eye on and research. I like his size and speed and WR is certainly a need.
3b. Fiedorowicz, I don't know anything about him either but overall I'm not impressed by next years class of TE's. I agree with the need at the position though, I can see a scenario where OD is a salary cap casualty. I really like his size, finally a big TE.
4. Dysert, I don't know anything about this guy either but really don't see the need for another mid round QB at this time with Yates and Keenum on the squad.
5. Cobble, I remember you mocking him last year and I questioned his athleticism at his size. I agree with the need at the position, someone to work in rotation with Mitchell at NT. Some size on the D-line is always a good thing, but I think it's a higher priority like 2nd or 3rd round.
5b. Jackson, don't know much about this guy but I like the size and productivity. He'd compete with Louiseau for a roster spot next year and either would solidify our depth at ILB.
6. Foltz, good OG depth if still available this late. I really liked your Alvin Bailey pick from a couple months ago.
7. Waddle, OT is a definite need but I think it's a higher priority, 3rd or 4th round. I like what I read about the guy but his listed speed at 5.3 is awfully slow for an OT and he might be a better fit at OG. If he can lose some weight and gain speed and agility, he might wind up being a good pick.Appreciate the feedback. Time got away from me while posting this thread and researching. Had to present it without some explanations due to an appointment I had. Here goes:

Rhodes: I think NFL is going to taller bigger WRs as are Texans. Rhodes pretty much handled Michael Floyd & does well as a cover type CB. http://unconquerednoles.com/articles/football/draft-eligible-underclassmen-xavier-rhodes.html

IMO, Rhodes is exactly type of bump and run CB that many thought KJ was. McCain is a FA in 2013. McMannis (4.5) has shown little so far as has Roc Carmichael (4.56). Ball should be cut leaving basically Joseph, KJ and Harris. I will give up a touch of speed for extra 3 inch height. Also at 215 + Rhodes would not be manhandled by an AJ type WR. I am drafting him as a CB not FS. That is a luxury. Please see my thoughts on safety depth below.

I have posted desire for OL but after reflection, don't see Wade Smith leaving. Brown/Smith/Myers/Brooks/Newton for next two years. I hesitate to use a first on a RG & quite possible Matthews & Barrett Jones will be gone.

Lester: Spent some time debating this position. Quin our SS & also a FA after 2012 and has been adequate but imo only slightly above average. Manning will be in his third year 2013 and in 2014 will be 32 YOA. His $4.5 m could be cut as no bonus and $9m guarantee has been paid. IMO, safety is a weak area if Quin does not return and we can't pay them all.

badboy
08-23-2012, 03:48 PM
My decision process on corner in first. Matthews, Barrett may be gone. My gut and what little I've seen of Martin and Jean allow me to move WR down as a need. Rhodes BPA. As on my previous 2013 mock, I like Da'Rick Rogers; however more risk with him than Rhodes. My 3rd round WR Marcus Davis offers close to Rogers. If Wade was to go NT in first, I would vote for Jesse Williams from Alabama over Kawaan Short. I just don't see a Nose in first this draft. There are no ILB in first at our pick. Kevin Riddick interest me in second but probably gone by our pick.

Wolf6151
08-23-2012, 06:11 PM
Appreciate the feedback. Time got away from me while posting this thread and researching. Had to present it without some explanations due to an appointment I had. Here goes:

Rhodes: I think NFL is going to taller bigger WRs as are Texans. Rhodes pretty much handled Michael Floyd & does well as a cover type CB. http://unconquerednoles.com/articles/football/draft-eligible-underclassmen-xavier-rhodes.html

IMO, Rhodes is exactly type of bump and run CB that many thought KJ was. McCain is a FA in 2013. McMannis (4.5) has shown little so far as has Roc Carmichael (4.56). Ball should be cut leaving basically Joseph, KJ and Harris. I will give up a touch of speed for extra 3 inch height. Also at 215 + Rhodes would not be manhandled by an AJ type WR. I am drafting him as a CB not FS. That is a luxury. Please see my thoughts on safety depth below.

I have posted desire for OL but after reflection, don't see Wade Smith leaving. Brown/Smith/Myers/Brooks/Newton for next two years. I hesitate to use a first on a RG & quite possible Matthews & Barrett Jones will be gone.

Lester: Spent some time debating this position. Quin our SS & also a FA after 2012 and has been adequate but imo only slightly above average. Manning will be in his third year 2013 and in 2014 will be 32 YOA. His $4.5 m could be cut as no bonus and $9m guarantee has been paid. IMO, safety is a weak area if Quin does not return and we can't pay them all.


When I comment on Rhodes size and probable transition to FS, it's his weight that I'm talking about not his height. I remember an interview posted on here months ago with Vance Joseph who was talking about KJ and Harris being good in short yardage coverage but that their weight and lack of long speed is what hindered them in pass coverage. He also said that both players were losing weight in the offseason, gaining long speed, and working on their skill set to be better cover corners down field. His implications were pretty direct that their weight caused a lack of long speed which hurt their down field coverage. Since both have lost the weight and gotten alot better in their pass coverage. Rhodes is too heavy and slow to be a good CB at the NFL level. I'm pretty safe in saying that he'll either have to lose weight, gain speed, and work on his skill set to be a successful NFL CB or most likely he'll transition to FS. If you insist on a 1st round CB then give us Johnathan Banks but I doubt he falls to us, probably a top 20 pick.

As for OG, I think Brooks starts next year just not sure which side of Myers he'll be on. Brooks taking W. Smith spot would make more financial sense but we'll see. On a related note, 2013 seems to be a really good year for OT and OG, their's quality and depth at both positions. I think we'll draft one of each in 2013 and would like to see it in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

As for SS, I think we re-sign Quin to a team friendly deal. Your right Quin's not great but he's decent enough to give a 3yr. extension to for the right price while we spend our upper draft choices elsewhere. I'm not arguing with the pick, if it were made Lester would be a great addition to the team, I just see higher priorities on the D-line next year at NT and DE. I'll worry about Mannings contract and age in 2014 next year, we've got more than enough on our plate for now.

As for WR, I think your missing the big picture. Yes Jean and Martin are young and impressive but I think both of them top out as a #2 or #3 WR. I don't think either has the potential to be a true #1. I'm looking for someone to replace Walter next year with potential to take over for AJ soon cause he ain't getting any younger or healthier any time soon.

I'll say it again, I can foresee next offseason being alot bloodier than this past one due to all the cuts made because of the locked down salary cap. Until the owners are finished exacting their pound of flesh retribution on the players for last years strike/lock out alot of teams are going to have to make really hard decisions.

infantrycak
08-23-2012, 07:44 PM
Said it before and I will end up saying it again years from now size on CB's is way over rated. Best CB in the league right now Revis at 5'11" Arguably best of all time Deion 6'1". Best on the Texans and one of the best in the league JJ 5'11" - all under 200 lbs. Darrell Green 5'9", our own Aaron Glenn 5'9", Antoine Winfield 5'9". A CB doesn't have to look like a WR in order to cover a WR. Especially in today's NFL a CB needs to be twitchy and fast rather than physical. AJ is a really big WR. He doesn't make his catches by bullying small CB's out of the way.

badboy
08-23-2012, 09:50 PM
When I comment on Rhodes size and probable transition to FS, it's his weight that I'm talking about not his height. I remember an interview posted on here months ago with Vance Joseph who was talking about KJ and Harris being good in short yardage coverage but that their weight and lack of long speed is what hindered them in pass coverage. He also said that both players were losing weight in the offseason, gaining long speed, and working on their skill set to be better cover corners down field. His implications were pretty direct that their weight caused a lack of long speed which hurt their down field coverage. Since both have lost the weight and gotten alot better in their pass coverage. Rhodes is too heavy and slow to be a good CB at the NFL level. I'm pretty safe in saying that he'll either have to lose weight, gain speed, and work on his skill set to be a successful NFL CB or most likely he'll transition to FS. If you insist on a 1st round CB then give us Johnathan Banks but I doubt he falls to us, probably a top 20 pick.

As for OG, I think Brooks starts next year just not sure which side of Myers he'll be on. Brooks taking W. Smith spot would make more financial sense but we'll see. On a related note, 2013 seems to be a really good year for OT and OG, their's quality and depth at both positions. I think we'll draft one of each in 2013 and would like to see it in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

As for SS, I think we re-sign Quin to a team friendly deal. Your right Quin's not great but he's decent enough to give a 3yr. extension to for the right price while we spend our upper draft choices elsewhere. I'm not arguing with the pick, if it were made Lester would be a great addition to the team, I just see higher priorities on the D-line next year at NT and DE. I'll worry about Mannings contract and age in 2014 next year, we've got more than enough on our plate for now.

As for WR, I think your missing the big picture. Yes Jean and Martin are young and impressive but I think both of them top out as a #2 or #3 WR. I don't think either has the potential to be a true #1. I'm looking for someone to replace Walter next year with potential to take over for AJ soon cause he ain't getting any younger or healthier any time soon.

I'll say it again, I can foresee next offseason being alot bloodier than this past one due to all the cuts made because of the locked down salary cap. Until the owners are finished exacting their pound of flesh retribution on the players for last years strike/lock out alot of teams are going to have to make really hard decisions.Good debate. Patrick Peterson at 6'1" 219lbs should not go unmentioned. His 4.34 is excellent for his size and it is quite possible Rhodes could run faster than 4.5 and he could also drop a few pounds if necessary.

I just really like him as a player and think he will do well. Not all corners can change to safety but he should IF he cannot succeed as CB. Either position is needed. Also he would play SS imo not free.

My comment on Manning states 2014. To replace #1 starter you should probably allow one year OJT for new guy.

Before you dump Wade Smith, familiarize your self on his contract and the ramifications to the cap.

Not missing anything on WRs. Jean might be the answer replacing AJ in long term but I would like to have a back up plan such as Da'Rick Rogers (my first round in prior 2013 mock) or my guy Marcus Davis. I think AJ barring injury will be #1 until at least thru 2014. Allowing two seasons for 2013 pick to get ready. We don't need Martin or Jean to be more than WR 2 and 3 as I said in thread.

With careful selections and younger guys like Yates improving, while losing some vets, off season may not be too harmful to the team.

This mock is far from my final but gives us something to think and talk about.

Wolf6151
08-23-2012, 09:58 PM
Not missing anything on WRs. Jean might be the answer replacing AJ in long term but I would like to have a back up plan such as Da'Rick Rogers (my first round in prior 2013 mock) or my guy Marcus Davis. I think AJ barring injury will be #1 until at least thru 2014. Allowing two seasons for 2013 pick to get ready. We don't need Martin or Jean to be more than WR 2 and 3 as I said in thread.



You can forget about DaRick Rogers, he just indefinitely suspended by Tennesse.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8295360/tennessee-volunteers-all-sec-wr-darick-rogers-suspended-indefinitely

badboy
08-23-2012, 10:00 PM
Said it before and I will end up saying it again years from now size on CB's is way over rated. Best CB in the league right now Revis at 5'11" Arguably best of all time Deion 6'1". Best on the Texans and one of the best in the league JJ 5'11" - all under 200 lbs. Darrell Green 5'9", our own Aaron Glenn 5'9", Antoine Winfield 5'9". A CB doesn't have to look like a WR in order to cover a WR. Especially in today's NFL a CB needs to be twitchy and fast rather than physical. AJ is a really big WR. He doesn't make his catches by bullying small CB's out of the way.It would be interesting how AJ would do against a similar size opponent. As you pointed out best of all time was same height as Rhodes. We should not rule out Rhodes who if needed could lose 10-12 pounds.

infantrycak
08-23-2012, 10:15 PM
It would be interesting how AJ would do against a similar size opponent. As you pointed out best of all time was same height as Rhodes. We should not rule out Rhodes who if needed could lose 10-12 pounds.

OK I am not overly absorbed with speed either but Deion was a 4.2 runner. He had sick closing speed to where he could play with QB's. It wasn't his height that made him great nor his size - heck he was a good 20 pounds lighter and looked like a pipe cleaner out there. But if you didn't throw the ball where he couldn't get it without running through the WR then he was getting it.

badboy
08-23-2012, 11:02 PM
OK I am not overly absorbed with speed either but Deion was a 4.2 runner. He had sick closing speed to where he could play with QB's. It wasn't his height that made him great nor his size - heck he was a good 20 pounds lighter and looked like a pipe cleaner out there. But if you didn't throw the ball where he couldn't get it without running through the WR then he was getting it.
This is exactly my point. There are CBs with size or heart or speed or something. Watching Rhodes for two years, I just think he has 'it'. I had several videos cached on him but erased all my favorites. Height in a corner or WR while not a must helps.

Of interest is a eval that Rhodes could run as low as 4.3
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=90161&draftyear=2014&genpos=CB

76Texan
08-25-2012, 02:18 AM
I seriously doubt that we will draft CB or safety in the first two rounds.

badboy
08-26-2012, 09:58 PM
You can forget about DaRick Rogers, he just indefinitely suspended by Tennesse.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8295360/tennessee-volunteers-all-sec-wr-darick-rogers-suspended-indefinitelyYeah I guess I look smart moving him off my mock but I still think he could be a good NFL WR. Just no way I see McNair okaying him. I think the new stuff is marijuana but who knows? He had too many pissing matches with coaches and that is something he can't do in NFL.

badboy
08-26-2012, 10:11 PM
I seriously doubt that we will draft CB or safety in the first two rounds.I thought you were a follower of BPA? Do you think a QB, NT, WR or OLB will be drafted first? If Schaub goes and Yates isn't ready a first will not do us much good. Jean and Martin look good and AJ will be around for another year or two so a later pick (like mine) makes sense. If Barwin leaves in FA as I predicted some time ago, the yeah another OLB could follow Mercilus. I know you like Jackson but he'd better make a big time leap in progress if we hope to be perennial playoff contenders. 2013 draft should allows us to go BPA for at least some of our picks. Yeah you can pencil Quin in for a new contract but he may choose money elsewhere. Especially so if he continues to play lights out as he has in preseason.

I am very okay with a OG or RT in first but the guys I like I expect to be gone. Butler or Newton needs to take the title and run with it.

Dutchrudder
08-27-2012, 09:50 AM
I'm with the people that don't think we need to go CB early in the next draft. We have Kareem Jackson for the next 3 years, and JJo for 4. Those guys will be the starters, we just need some depth behind them. Harris will be here for 3 more years as well, and he seems capable to split time with KJax, given the limited time I've seen him in preseason.

We should be looking for a replacement nickle corner, because McCain is likely gone after this season. I think he will get a decent offer that the Texans won't be able to match, same goes for Glover Quin. If we get lucky, those guys won't get much interest around the league and will be re-signed for 1-3 million a year, but I give that about a 5% chance of happening.

So the question is, do we have someone on the roster who can take Quin's safety spot? Demps maybe? I don't know, but I know the Texans have never cared much about the safety position, so I expect us to allocate our resources elsewhere. Even if Harris can be the nickel corner next year, I expect a mid to late round pick spent on both a Safety and a CB.

Wolf6151
08-28-2012, 01:13 AM
I don't know, but I know the Texans have never cared much about the safety position, so I expect us to allocate our resources elsewhere. Even if Harris can be the nickel corner next year, I expect a mid to late round pick spent on both a Safety and a CB.

Your right the Texans never cared about the safety position, until Wade Phillips got here. When we finally got someone truly qualified to be a Defensive Coordinator instead of hiring Kubiak's unqualified friends we got 2 new Safeties. Manning and Quin have brought alot to our secondary. Not even Darrell Revis can cover a WR by himself for more than about 4-5 seconds at most. Quality Safety help is needed by even the best CB's. Now I do agree with your general idea that a Safety is not a high need in 2013. I think we re-sign Quin and if not then I wouldn't mind giving Demps a year to prove what he capable of, he's looked pretty damn good last year and this preseason.

badboy
08-29-2012, 09:53 PM
I'm with the people that don't think we need to go CB early in the next draft. We have Kareem Jackson for the next 3 years, and JJo for 4. Those guys will be the starters, we just need some depth behind them. Harris will be here for 3 more years as well, and he seems capable to split time with KJax, given the limited time I've seen him in preseason.

We should be looking for a replacement nickle corner, because McCain is likely gone after this season. I think he will get a decent offer that the Texans won't be able to match, same goes for Glover Quin. If we get lucky, those guys won't get much interest around the league and will be re-signed for 1-3 million a year, but I give that about a 5% chance of happening.

So the question is, do we have someone on the roster who can take Quin's safety spot? Demps maybe? I don't know, but I know the Texans have never cared much about the safety position, so I expect us to allocate our resources elsewhere. Even if Harris can be the nickel corner next year, I expect a mid to late round pick spent on both a Safety and a CB.

Bold while probably true is only an assumption for KJ. If a better player can be drafted he would fall to back up. Same can be said for our LT, RT, FB and SS (Quin who is a FA 2013). Bradie James probably falls in this classification also. IMO, we basically have a 3 CB rotation in Joseph, KJ and Harris. The positions LCB & RCB scream for a high pick to joing the rotation. I was hoping for either McMannis or Carmichael to fill that but that does not appear to be happening.

badboy
08-29-2012, 09:56 PM
Your right the Texans never cared about the safety position, until Wade Phillips got here. When we finally got someone truly qualified to be a Defensive Coordinator instead of hiring Kubiak's unqualified friends we got 2 new Safeties. Manning and Quin have brought alot to our secondary. Not even Darrell Revis can cover a WR by himself for more than about 4-5 seconds at most. Quality Safety help is needed by even the best CB's. Now I do agree with your general idea that a Safety is not a high need in 2013. I think we re-sign Quin and if not then I wouldn't mind giving Demps a year to prove what he capable of, he's looked pretty damn good last year and this preseason.I just see Quin going for the bucks. I swam against public opinion saying same about Conner Barwin.

BTW, he still has not reach a new deal. Texans philosophy says if no deal by start of season, negotiations stop.

steelbtexan
08-29-2012, 10:24 PM
Cant do a full mock but I hope the 1st 3 rds go something like this

Matthews
Dobson
Mettenberger

Wolf6151
08-30-2012, 12:05 AM
Cant do a full mock but I hope the 1st 3 rds go something like this

Matthews
Dobson
Mettenberger

SB, you've got to do better than that. It's to early in the season to know who you mean by only a last name. Positions?

rmartin65
08-30-2012, 08:22 AM
SB, you've got to do better than that. It's to early in the season to know who you mean by only a last name. Positions?

I assume Matthews is the OT from Texas A&M, and Mettenberger is the QB from LSU. I am not sue, but the only Dobson that I can think of is the receiver from Marshall.

steelbtexan
08-30-2012, 09:00 AM
I assume Matthews is the OT from Texas A&M, and Mettenberger is the QB from LSU. I am not sue, but the only Dobson that I can think of is the receiver from Marshall.

You are correct.

I will try to do better next time. It was late and my brain wasn't functioning properly.

badboy
08-30-2012, 04:49 PM
You are correct.

I will try to do better next time. It was late and my brain wasn't functioning properly.In my world it is always late & my brain isn't functioning properly. :butterfly:

badboy
08-30-2012, 05:07 PM
For those that review or create mocks here is the ESPN college football schedule:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7621355/espn-networks-2012-college-football-schedule

76Texan
08-30-2012, 05:38 PM
I thought you were a follower of BPA? Do you think a QB, NT, WR or OLB will be drafted first? If Schaub goes and Yates isn't ready a first will not do us much good. Jean and Martin look good and AJ will be around for another year or two so a later pick (like mine) makes sense. If Barwin leaves in FA as I predicted some time ago, the yeah another OLB could follow Mercilus. I know you like Jackson but he'd better make a big time leap in progress if we hope to be perennial playoff contenders. 2013 draft should allows us to go BPA for at least some of our picks. Yeah you can pencil Quin in for a new contract but he may choose money elsewhere. Especially so if he continues to play lights out as he has in preseason.

I am very okay with a OG or RT in first but the guys I like I expect to be gone. Butler or Newton needs to take the title and run with it.

To me, it's seems like the Texans mostly went BPA at a certain position(s) of need.

I don't follow the draft in 07, but from 08 going forward, it certainly looked that way.
Between the draft and free agency, they always attempted to address positions of needs.

Dutchrudder
08-30-2012, 06:44 PM
Your right the Texans never cared about the safety position, until Wade Phillips got here. When we finally got someone truly qualified to be a Defensive Coordinator instead of hiring Kubiak's unqualified friends we got 2 new Safeties. Manning and Quin have brought alot to our secondary. Not even Darrell Revis can cover a WR by himself for more than about 4-5 seconds at most. Quality Safety help is needed by even the best CB's. Now I do agree with your general idea that a Safety is not a high need in 2013. I think we re-sign Quin and if not then I wouldn't mind giving Demps a year to prove what he capable of, he's looked pretty damn good last year and this preseason.

If Quin walks in free agency, I expect them to put Demps in his position and spend a later pick on a safety for depth. I just don't think the position is worth a 1-3 round draft pick. Although, we should have 11 picks next year, so maybe they do spend a compensatory pick on it. We shall see.

Rey
08-30-2012, 06:47 PM
If Quin walks in free agency, I expect them to put Demps in his position and spend a later pick on a safety for depth. I just don't think the position is worth a 1-3 round draft pick. Although, we should have 11 picks next year, so maybe they do spend a compensatory pick on it. We shall see.

Jmo, but I think Nolan would get first crack at that spot.

Wolf6151
08-31-2012, 12:42 AM
If Quin walks in free agency, I expect them to put Demps in his position and spend a later pick on a safety for depth. I just don't think the position is worth a 1-3 round draft pick. Although, we should have 11 picks next year, so maybe they do spend a compensatory pick on it. We shall see.

I'm hoping we re-sign Quin if there's enough money left over in the budget because I really don't want to spend a 1-3 round pick on a Safety, I think we've got higher priorities. I don't think Quin will be terribly expensive, he's slightly above average and not a real playmaker but he may chase the money elsewhere. I can't really blame him. I agree with you on letting Demps have a year to prove himself and drafting a depth player. Where are you getting 11 picks next year? I'm thinking we get 2 comp. picks, one in the 3rd and one in the 5th at most. That's 9 picks.

badboy
08-31-2012, 03:31 PM
To me, it's seems like the Texans mostly went BPA at a certain position(s) of need.

I don't follow the draft in 07, but from 08 going forward, it certainly looked that way.
Between the draft and free agency, they always attempted to address positions of needs.That certainly was not true in last draft selecting OLB Whitney.

steelbtexan
08-31-2012, 04:06 PM
Jmo, but I think Nolan would get first crack at that spot.

Not if Nolan takes the angles to the ball and allows TD's like the one before halftime last night.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 04:59 PM
That certainly was not true in last draft selecting OLB Whitney.

There's always a need for the third pass rusher.

Remember how Wade always said that we were fortunate that Barwin and Reed played that many snaps (especially Barwin).

Also, you might want to plan ahead.
We drafted Reed in case MW walks.
We drafted Mercilus in case Barwin walks.

76Texan
08-31-2012, 05:05 PM
Not if Nolan takes the angles to the ball and allows TD's like the one before halftime last night.

Same thing with Quin losing Graham early in the Saints game to put D.Mann in a precarious position, LOL!

76Texan
08-31-2012, 05:06 PM
I'm hoping we re-sign Quin if there's enough money left over in the budget because I really don't want to spend a 1-3 round pick on a Safety, I think we've got higher priorities. I don't think Quin will be terribly expensive, he's slightly above average and not a real playmaker but he may chase the money elsewhere. I can't really blame him. I agree with you on letting Demps have a year to prove himself and drafting a depth player. Where are you getting 11 picks next year? I'm thinking we get 2 comp. picks, one in the 3rd and one in the 5th at most. That's 9 picks.

What do you guys think is a fair number for Quin's next contract?

badboy
08-31-2012, 11:03 PM
If Quin walks in free agency, I expect them to put Demps in his position and spend a later pick on a safety for depth. I just don't think the position is worth a 1-3 round draft pick. Although, we should have 11 picks next year, so maybe they do spend a compensatory pick on it. We shall see.Well position of safety was worth millions to Manning.

badboy
08-31-2012, 11:10 PM
There's always a need for the third pass rusher.

Remember how Wade always said that we were fortunate that Barwin and Reed played that many snaps (especially Barwin).

Also, you might want to plan ahead.
We drafted Reed in case MW walks.
We drafted Mercilus in case Barwin walks.Not arguing any of that and I am a fan but he was not a best player available at a need position. I think most now would agree that Zeitler pick #3 would have been BPA.

I also thought my guy Coby Fleener could play at WR2.

Don't forget in my original 2013 mock I called for Barwin to flee in free agency so I am liking the pick now. Still would take either of those over Merci.

badboy
08-31-2012, 11:22 PM
What do you guys think is a fair number for Quin's next contract?interesting question. His base was $1.3 this season and he should expect to double that although Manning's first season was $2.5m. You could argue he is not that good but someone will offer him that (at least) and at 26 he is wanting to get his deal. I think he looks at over all package and upfront/guaranteed money for his destination.

Wolf6151
09-01-2012, 02:39 AM
interesting question. His base was $1.3 this season and he should expect to double that although Manning's first season was $2.5m. You could argue he is not that good but someone will offer him that (at least) and at 26 he is wanting to get his deal. I think he looks at over all package and upfront/guaranteed money for his destination.

Your right Quin's not as good as Manning and just doesn't strike me as a playmaker but his coverage skills for a Safety are pretty good. I'm guessing we offer him in the 2-2.5 mil. range. I would expect him to chase the money though if someone makes a better offer which is highly possible. I wouldn't blame him either, he's not a superstar and he's got to make what he can when he can. If we lose Quin to FA should we offer the starting spot to Demps and see what he's got full time for a year or go with a draft pick? Also other than Lester, who's a good coverage Safety in the mid rounds. I don't want a Pollard type Safety, we need someone that can cover, or is their a mid round CB with coverage skills that yall feel can be converted to Safety?

steelbtexan
09-01-2012, 07:34 AM
Your right Quin's not as good as Manning and just doesn't strike me as a playmaker but his coverage skills for a Safety are pretty good. I'm guessing we offer him in the 2-2.5 mil. range. I would expect him to chase the money though if someone makes a better offer which is highly possible. I wouldn't blame him either, he's not a superstar and he's got to make what he can when he can. If we lose Quin to FA should we offer the starting spot to Demps and see what he's got full time for a year or go with a draft pick? Also other than Lester, who's a good coverage Safety in the mid rounds. I don't want a Pollard type Safety, we need someone that can cover, or is their a mid round CB with coverage skills that yall feel can be converted to Safety?

Quin is probably going to walk after this yr. I wouldn't blame him.

Vicarro (sp?) from Texas would be a good 2-3rd rd pick. Eric Reid, Ray Ray Armstrong and Baccari Rambo are guys with different kinds of issues but all are very talented and could step in and play right away.

beerlover
09-01-2012, 08:38 AM
Quin is probably going to walk after this yr. I wouldn't blame him.

Vicarro (sp?) from Texas would be a good 2-3rd rd pick. Eric Reid, Ray Ray Armstrong and Baccari Rambo are guys with different kinds of issues but all are very talented and could step in and play right away.

Doubt Quin would walk away from the organization that believed & developed him. Also he has not distinguished himself as a playmaker that would garner big free agent bucks. He will remain under the radar & core defensive back for Texans, barring injury at least the next five years. So I doubt safety is that big of need to project high in any Texan mock draft this point in time.

Wolf6151
09-01-2012, 08:45 AM
Quin is probably going to walk after this yr. I wouldn't blame him.

Vicarro (sp?) from Texas would be a good 2-3rd rd pick. Eric Reid, Ray Ray Armstrong and Baccari Rambo are guys with different kinds of issues but all are very talented and could step in and play right away.

I don't know anything about the other guys but I don't want Armstrong. He's a Safety in the mold of Pollard (hitter) and honestly needs to make up his mind if he's a Safety or LB. I think he needs to add a few lbs. and make the switch to LB.

badboy
09-15-2012, 10:55 PM
I've been working on new adjustments to '13 mock. Hope to post in next few days after Jacksonville game. My concerns remain right side of O line, Nose and OLB if Barwin leaves. I think OGs should be deep if the underclassmen come out. Probably will leave QB off as Matt re-signed. I want to focus Sunday on Bradie James. Feel better if he stepped it up a mite.

Wolf6151
09-16-2012, 12:10 AM
I've been working on new adjustments to '13 mock. Hope to post in next few days after Jacksonville game. My concerns remain right side of O line, Nose and OLB if Barwin leaves. I think OGs should be deep if the underclassmen come out. Probably will leave QB off as Matt re-signed. I want to focus Sunday on Bradie James. Feel better if he stepped it up a mite.

I've also been working on a new mock with emphasis on NT, and O-line. I thought about posting but think I'll wait a couple games, we'll see. Now that we've re-signed Schaub we need to put some major emphasis on keeping him safe by improving the quality and depth of the O-line. I still think the other ILB spot opposite Cushing is a low priority spot since it's only a 2 down position. Also if we get better at NT it lessens the need at ILB.

steelbtexan
09-16-2012, 12:33 AM
It's early but here's the players like alot for the Texans.

Rd.1 Barrett Jones OL-Ala
Rd.2 Christian Fauria TE-UCLA
Rd.3 Jesse Williams NT- Ala
Rd.3 Kenny Viccaro S- UT
Rd.4 Desmond Trufant CB-Wash.

Wolf6151
09-16-2012, 04:02 AM
Ok SB made me do it. No explanations though, it's 4am and I'm tired.

1. Kawaan Short-DT
2. Rick Wagner-OT
3. Micah Hyde-CB
3b. Quinton Patton-WR
4. Gabe Jackson-OG
5. Jonathan Bostic-ILB
5b. Blaze Foltz-OG
6. Rashard Hall-FS
7. Devin Street-WR

badboy
09-16-2012, 08:13 AM
I've also been working on a new mock with emphasis on NT, and O-line. I thought about posting but think I'll wait a couple games, we'll see. Now that we've re-signed Schaub we need to put some major emphasis on keeping him safe by improving the quality and depth of the O-line. I still think the other ILB spot opposite Cushing is a low priority spot since it's only a 2 down position. Also if we get better at NT it lessens the need at ILB.Good post & I agree on all points. I am looking at ILB but later round. Regardless of how well Cody does, I just don't see him back next year & I still have ? on his play.

badboy
09-16-2012, 08:22 AM
It's early but here's the players like alot for the Texans.

Rd.1 Barrett Jones OL-Ala
Rd.2 Christian Fauria TE-UCLA
Rd.3 Jesse Williams NT- Ala
Rd.3 Kenny Viccaro S- UT
Rd.4 Desmond Trufant CB-Wash.I've followed Jones for two years and he will be great & can play any Oline spot. My problem is I really like Matthews and identify with him thru his dad. He is the perfect RT for ZBS with great feet and laterals, very quick despite his size. Same can be said for Jones & I'll be happy with either. Hopefully Newton and Caldwell will continue to improve this season and whomever we draft will be a back up allowing time to develop.


Would you draft a straight RT like Matthews who should be able to play OG or him and an OG? I have one of each so far. BTW, I like your mock.

badboy
09-16-2012, 08:25 AM
Ok SB made me do it. No explanations though, it's 4am and I'm tired.

1. Kawaan Short-DT
2. Rick Wagner-OT
3. Micah Hyde-CB
3b. Quinton Patton-WR
4. Gabe Jackson-OG
5. Jonathan Bostic-ILB
5b. Blaze Foltz-OG
6. Rashard Hall-FS
7. Devin Street-WRGreat lower round guys. I have Folltz also but in 6th IIRC. Hall, Street, Jackson and Bostic are all on my "watch" list. I am not much of a Short fan and Wagner's evals have him slow to pick up speed rushers and slide to right. I keep seeing Eric Winston who is good but not what I want if I'm building my line.

Wolf6151
09-17-2012, 02:06 AM
Ok SB made me do it. No explanations though, it's 4am and I'm tired.

1. Kawaan Short-DT
2. Rick Wagner-OT
3. Micah Hyde-CB
3b. Quinton Patton-WR
4. Gabe Jackson-OG
5. Jonathan Bostic-ILB
5b. Blaze Foltz-OG
6. Rashard Hall-FS
7. Devin Street-WR


Ok, some short explanations now.

1. Short, great size and quickness for what Wade looks for in a 1 gap NT and should work well in rotation with Mitchell and lessen the need for an ILB. I originally wanted a WR in the 1st but I think the value is better at DT, several good ones to choose from at the end of the round.
2. Wagner, great size, great O-line school, needs to add a little quickness but a potential stud at RT. Competes for the starting position with Newton right away.
3. Hyde, great size and good speed. We'll probably lose McCain to FA so we'll need some new depth. He's better at zone than man coverage but should get a year as depth to learn and get better.
3b. Patton, I like this guy he's got decent size and quickness, not afraid to go over the middle, and plays with some power also catches with his hands, not his body. Like Hyde should get a year to improve as depth on the roster. Good college productivity and has been moving up the boards.
4. Jackson, this might take a little luck. He's got really good potential and may stay in school another year. Very good OG in the toughest conference around. Replaces W. Smith in 2014.
5. Bostic, another guy with good size for the position and good college productivity. I originally had Taylor here but he could move much higher if he proves his injured foot is better. With a better NT the need at ILB is lessened and it's only a 2 down position.
5b. Foltz, added depth at OG with great strength and several years of starting experience on a good TCU O-line.
6. Hall, inconsistent player but hopefully some new coaching and teammates can bring the best out in him. Added competition at Safety. Still can't believe we kept Keo. I originally wanted Prentiss Waggner here but he's probably going several rounds higher.
7. Street, great size and decent productivity. A new offensive scheme should help him and he'll be added depth/competition at a position of weakness for us.

I also sign Taimi Tutogi-FB and possibly Zach Boren-FB as UDFA if they don't get drafted.

beerlover
09-17-2012, 09:50 AM
Not real hot on going Short in 1st, maybe 2nd? However Wagner would be worth a 1st.

Not worried about losing McCain, think he stays, if not still have Harris.

Ben Jones just stepped up to fill the gap @ RG. Not sure on Brooks status, but obviously there is some depth here, more depth maybe, but this high again?

late 5th on ILB?

Keo lacks speed I understand that it has been exposed but he is a hard worker & coaches like him, if he doesn't figure out quicker reads to gain position on the field when used he could be off the field next season like Nolan playing for someone else.

Not sure about all these extra picks, did I miss something? WR often but need targeted earlier.

Not crazy about your hierarchy of needs but always good to discuss :runaway:

badboy
09-17-2012, 10:59 AM
Not real hot on going Short in 1st, maybe 2nd? However Wagner would be worth a 1st.

Not worried about losing McCain, think he stays, if not still have Harris.

Ben Jones just stepped up to fill the gap @ RG. Not sure on Brooks status, but obviously there is some depth here, more depth maybe, but this high again?

late 5th on ILB?

Keo lacks speed I understand that it has been exposed but he is a hard worker & coaches like him, if he doesn't figure out quicker reads to gain position on the field when used he could be off the field next season like Nolan playing for someone else.

Not sure about all these extra picks, did I miss something? WR often but need targeted earlier.

Not crazy about your hierarchy of needs but always good to discuss :runaway:Extra 3rd and 5th while not confirmed until next year are predicted comp picks.

beerlover
09-17-2012, 11:26 AM
Extra 3rd and 5th while not confirmed until next year are predicted comp picks.

Mario/Winston or Jacoby?

badboy
09-17-2012, 11:42 AM
Mario/Winston or Jacoby?Mario in FA as JJ and Winston were let go & we are owed nothing. IIRC, Allen the CB alternating with KJ is the other worth a 5th although some have said only a 6th.

Wolf6151
09-17-2012, 01:13 PM
Mario in FA as JJ and Winston were let go & we are owed nothing. IIRC, Allen the CB alternating with KJ is the other worth a 5th although some have said only a 6th.

I was thinking Brisiel was the 5th round comp. pick.

badboy
09-17-2012, 02:33 PM
I was thinking Brisiel was the 5th round comp. pick.Yep, think you are correct. We might get a 6th for Allen.

steelbtexan
09-17-2012, 06:38 PM
I've followed Jones for two years and he will be great & can play any Oline spot. My problem is I really like Matthews and identify with him thru his dad. He is the perfect RT for ZBS with great feet and laterals, very quick despite his size. Same can be said for Jones & I'll be happy with either. Hopefully Newton and Caldwell will continue to improve this season and whomever we draft will be a back up allowing time to develop.


Would you draft a straight RT like Matthews who should be able to play OG or him and an OG? I have one of each so far. BTW, I like your mock.

I would take Matthews over Jones. But he probably wont be there with the 32nd pick. Just curious do you think Joeckel will be able to play OG?

I know Rang has Joeckel rated as his #1 OT. But I think his feet are not good enough to play LT in the pros. In fact Matthews has better feet than Joeckel. IMHO

badboy
09-17-2012, 10:59 PM
I would take Matthews over Jones. But he probably wont be there with the 32nd pick. Just curious do you think Joeckel will be able to play OG?

I know Rang has Joeckel rated as his #1 OT. But I think his feet are not good enough to play LT in the pros. In fact Matthews has better feet than Joeckel. IMHOI'm thinking Jones goes to Dallas, Matthews & Joekel gone.
Thinking Jones and Brooks will resolve RG this season with Newton locking down RT. Interesting to see how Gardner does with a season of coaching. I'm lowering priority for RT for now. I have one early round OG with a surprise. If Matthews were avail in first I'd have to take him as perfect for ZBS & can play RG as well as RT.

badboy
09-18-2012, 11:11 AM
First thought I'd wait until after game 3 Denver to post this but believe it should hold up unless I have evaluated the game Sunday incorrectly. As usual, I want to offer brief explanation on how I arrived at this mock. First, Kareem Jackson has responded well to coaching and if he continues, I am moving CB2 off mock (well almost as I take Hyde but want him as safety). Denver will tell us a lot but Newton looks like he will be a long time starter. Still inconclusive on Harris but 6'5 300 & will be only 28 March & I think he will agree to re-sign at reasonable money, especially if he cannot beat out Kubiak favorite Newton. As Beerlover noted http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94248
"First off Ryan Harris was a premier guard prospect coming out of Notre Dame. If healthy he could be a better option @ RT than Newton beause of his experience & ability to mirror & slide in pass pro..." My concern remains on his back recovery.

I have us picking #28 or later. Matthews, Barrett Jones gone.

1. Nose Jesse Williams 6'3" 320 Alabama. Have you watched this defense? Enough said.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1824786/jesse-williams

I like Cody but not sure if he is in Texans future. 30 January '13. He could take a team friendy offer. I have not seen enough of Mitchell but still see him as DE. If Cody re-ups this pick probably will change. IMO, Nose is priority as of today.

2. C/RG Khalid Holmes 6'3" 305 Southern California can play all 3 interior spots. He did not start against Stanford due to ankle injury.

3A. FS/CB Micah Hyde 6'1" 190 4.43 Iowa I have watched him only with corner in mind until this season. Kid is a natural safety where his somewhat stiff hips should not hurt him. Strong and good tackler. Perfect for our D even if Quin re-signs. Good opportunity to upgrade this position.

3B (comp for Mario) OLB Dion Jordan 6'7" 243 I recently started focusing on this player. I still see Barwin gone. "To take advantage of his unique combination of burst off the snap and length, Oregon created a hybrid role for Jordan in 2011, lining him up as a stand-up pass rusher and moving him around to find favorable matchups. Demonstrating surprising fluidity for such a tall player, Jordan exploded for 13 tackles for loss and 7.5 sacks, each of which led the team, earning First Team ..." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1631835/dion-jordan Sounds like perfect fit for Phillip's 3-4.

4. WR Marcus Davis 6'4" 228 4.37 43" vert Virginia Tech. I watch the games and he seems to get little attention but his avg/catch is 20.4. An 85 yd TD in loss against Pitt. As Texans season progresses & I see more of Jean, I could remove WR from mock.

5A TE Jake Stoneburner 6'5" 245 Ohio ST has been used as TE, slot, Hback as most recently as WR. Remind you of anyone? Blocks with 100% effort but like most TEs can improve.

5B (for Briesel) ILB AJ Klein 6'1 244 Iowa St 101 tackles 60 solo 2 sacks. True MLB

6. RG Blaize Foltz 6'4" 310 TCU I just like this guy.

7. LT LaAdrian Waddle 6'6" 330 started 25 consecutive and will only be 21 at draft.

Heavy on Oline but that is where I see the greatest need & not convinced on Brooks yet.

beerlover
09-18-2012, 01:41 PM
Like thought process here, build trenches, however Texan historically don't spend high picks on them. I'm thinking this year it's gonna be a WR in 1st unless things turnaround.

badboy
09-18-2012, 03:44 PM
Like thought process here, build trenches, however Texan historically don't spend high picks on them. I'm thinking this year it's gonna be a WR in 1st unless things turnaround.Again we think alike. I wanted to go WR in first after deciding corner was solid with improved KJ and if RG is resolved and Newton locks in RT, but I keep thinking Jean is going to good. Really good.

My thinking is AJ if healthy remains WR1 for next 3 years at least. Martin should control slot, end arounds and occasionally WR2. If Jean becomes as good as expected, why use a first unless it is for a franchise type WR? I have a WR later rounds only because I have no clue how this corps ends this season.

I am now convinced the right side is not the weak area I first thought & id selecting an OG or RT it will be as a backup most likely. Two guys I want I identified as gone.

Would it not be cool if by season's end all questions are resolved and we can draft BPA?

Wolf6151
09-18-2012, 04:27 PM
First thought I'd wait until after game 3 Denver to post this but believe it should hold up unless I have evaluated the game Sunday incorrectly. As usual, I want to offer brief explanation on how I arrived at this mock. First, Kareem Jackson has responded well to coaching and if he continues, I am moving CB2 off mock (well almost as I take Hyde but want him as safety). Denver will tell us a lot but Newton looks like he will be a long time starter. Still inconclusive on Harris but 6'5 300 & will be only 28 March & I think he will agree to re-sign at reasonable money, especially if he cannot beat out Kubiak favorite Newton. As Beerlover noted http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94248
"First off Ryan Harris was a premier guard prospect coming out of Notre Dame. If healthy he could be a better option @ RT than Newton beause of his experience & ability to mirror & slide in pass pro..." My concern remains on his back recovery.

I have us picking #28 or later. Matthews, Barrett Jones gone.

1. Nose Jesse Williams 6'3" 320 Alabama. Have you watched this defense? Enough said.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1824786/jesse-williams

I like Cody but not sure if he is in Texans future. 30 January '13. He could take a team friendy offer. I have not seen enough of Mitchell but still see him as DE. If Cody re-ups this pick probably will change. IMO, Nose is priority as of today.

2. C/RG Khalid Holmes 6'3" 305 Southern California can play all 3 interior spots. He did not start against Stanford due to ankle injury.

3A. FS/CB Micah Hyde 6'1" 190 4.43 Iowa I have watched him only with corner in mind until this season. Kid is a natural safety where his somewhat stiff hips should not hurt him. Strong and good tackler. Perfect for our D even if Quin re-signs. Good opportunity to upgrade this position.

3B (comp for Mario) OLB Dion Jordan 6'7" 243 I recently started focusing on this player. I still see Barwin gone. "To take advantage of his unique combination of burst off the snap and length, Oregon created a hybrid role for Jordan in 2011, lining him up as a stand-up pass rusher and moving him around to find favorable matchups. Demonstrating surprising fluidity for such a tall player, Jordan exploded for 13 tackles for loss and 7.5 sacks, each of which led the team, earning First Team ..." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1631835/dion-jordan Sounds like perfect fit for Phillip's 3-4.

4. WR Marcus Davis 6'4" 228 4.37 43" vert Virginia Tech. I watch the games and he seems to get little attention but his avg/catch is 20.4. An 85 yd TD in loss against Pitt. As Texans season progresses & I see more of Jean, I could remove WR from mock.

5A TE Jake Stoneburner 6'5" 245 Ohio ST has been used as TE, slot, Hback as most recently as WR. Remind you of anyone? Blocks with 100% effort but like most TEs can improve.

5B (for Briesel) ILB AJ Klein 6'1 244 Iowa St 101 tackles 60 solo 2 sacks. True MLB

6. RG Blaize Foltz 6'4" 310 TCU I just like this guy.

7. LT LaAdrian Waddle 6'6" 330 started 25 consecutive and will only be 21 at draft.

Heavy on Oline but that is where I see the greatest need & not convinced on Brooks yet.


1. Jesse Williams, I have no problem with this pick and the priority. I like Jesse, Sylvester Williams, and Kawaan Short. Good pick.
2. Holmes, I like the player but just don't think he'll be available. I think he goes late 1st or early 2nd, not available at #28.
3. Hyde, I like him as well and think he'd be good depth at CB after a year of learning. I'd want to try him out at CB 1st and if it doesn't work out then I'd have no problem moving him to Safety.
3b. Jordan, I don't know anything about this guy and just don't see the need. I think Barwin stays.
4. Davis, I like the size and speed but don't know anything about the player.
5. Stoneburner, I had him in an early mock but I'm just not that impressed, and the TE class as a whole is lacking.
5b. Klein, good pick and priority of the position.
6. Foltz, good pick, I think he'd be great depth and possible starter in a couple years.
7. Waddle, Wow you really dropped the OT priority. We'll know more in 2 months if Newton is the permanent RT.

I like the heavy on O-line emphasis. We're going to lose 2 maybe 3 O-linemen over the next 2 yrs. (Caldwell, W. Smith, and possibly Newton) and we need to upgrade our depth because the depth we have now will be starters next year. Also with the major investment we made in Schaub we need to keep him healthy.

badboy
09-18-2012, 08:46 PM
1. Jesse Williams, I have no problem with this pick and the priority. I like Jesse, Sylvester Williams, and Kawaan Short. Good pick.
2. Holmes, I like the player but just don't think he'll be available. I think he goes late 1st or early 2nd, not available at #28.
3. Hyde, I like him as well and think he'd be good depth at CB after a year of learning. I'd want to try him out at CB 1st and if it doesn't work out then I'd have no problem moving him to Safety.
3b. Jordan, I don't know anything about this guy and just don't see the need. I think Barwin stays.
4. Davis, I like the size and speed but don't know anything about the player.
5. Stoneburner, I had him in an early mock but I'm just not that impressed, and the TE class as a whole is lacking.
5b. Klein, good pick and priority of the position.
6. Foltz, good pick, I think he'd be great depth and possible starter in a couple years.
7. Waddle, Wow you really dropped the OT priority. We'll know more in 2 months if Newton is the permanent RT.

I like the heavy on O-line emphasis. We're going to lose 2 maybe 3 O-linemen over the next 2 yrs. (Caldwell, W. Smith, and possibly Newton) and we need to upgrade our depth because the depth we have now will be starters next year. Also with the major investment we made in Schaub we need to keep him healthy.Thanks for feedback. Just some thoughts: I think Khalid Jones gets caught up in the Alabama hype during the draft and goes unnoticed if that is correct word. I think in second round there will be some panic in teams above us who will over reach to get a player that should go in third but will be selected in second. Examples: QB Zach Dysert, CB Justin Gilbert, OT Ricky Wagner, and if he can stay on the team RB Christine Michael.

Hopefully, Holmes will slip out of minds and fall to us.

Wolf6151
09-19-2012, 10:07 PM
Thanks for feedback. Just some thoughts: I think Khalid Jones gets caught up in the Alabama hype during the draft and goes unnoticed if that is correct word. I think in second round there will be some panic in teams above us who will over reach to get a player that should go in third but will be selected in second. Examples: QB Zach Dysert, CB Justin Gilbert, OT Ricky Wagner, and if he can stay on the team RB Christine Michael.

Hopefully, Holmes will slip out of minds and fall to us.

I have 2 other concerns regarding Khaled Holmes. He's got perfect size for C but at 305 lbs. he's light for an OG if your wanting him to do dual duty at OG and we already have Ben Jones as depth at C. I guess at 6'04" he's got the frame to add a few pounds without losing athleticism though. Also if your looking for someone to do dual duty on the O-line, which I completely agree with, I'd rather have someone that's OT/OG. I think Rick Wagner is plenty fast to play RT in the NFL, he's played some LT in college. Even if he did turn out to be to slow for RT he'd probably be a stud OG in our system with his athleticism, thus he could be starting RT or starting OG if needed. I also like Alvin Bailey, Dallas Thomas, Gabe Jackson, and Braden Hansen if your looking for a later round OG.

Does the 2013 draft seem to be pretty talent rich/deep to you? I don't like the depth at TE but other than that this seems like it's going to be a very good draft with good talent down into the 3rd-4th round.

badboy
09-21-2012, 03:07 PM
I have 2 other concerns regarding Khaled Holmes. He's got perfect size for C but at 305 lbs. he's light for an OG if your wanting him to do dual duty at OG and we already have Ben Jones as depth at C. I guess at 6'04" he's got the frame to add a few pounds without losing athleticism though. Also if your looking for someone to do dual duty on the O-line, which I completely agree with, I'd rather have someone that's OT/OG. I think Rick Wagner is plenty fast to play RT in the NFL, he's played some LT in college. Even if he did turn out to be to slow for RT he'd probably be a stud OG in our system with his athleticism, thus he could be starting RT or starting OG if needed. I also like Alvin Bailey, Dallas Thomas, Gabe Jackson, and Braden Hansen if your looking for a later round OG.

Does the 2013 draft seem to be pretty talent rich/deep to you? I don't like the depth at TE but other than that this seems like it's going to be a very good draft with good talent down into the 3rd-4th round.Ben Jones just played RG @ 303; Wade Smith has started LG for years at 307.

I have watched Wagner for two years and I see him with slow, difficult slide/shuffle to the right to pick up outside rusher. I would not scream and change my drawers if we draft him but not my preference. I did have Alvin Bailey in 3rd but was unable to watch him last week. I think Ben Jones could move to RG soon unless Caldwell (2013 FA) turns it up. Drafting OC/OG makes more sense to me as Newton will lock it in. I'm leaning towards Harris being back also.

More later. Still at work.

badboy
09-21-2012, 10:34 PM
I have 2 other concerns regarding Khaled Holmes. He's got perfect size for C but at 305 lbs. he's light for an OG if your wanting him to do dual duty at OG and we already have Ben Jones as depth at C. I guess at 6'04" he's got the frame to add a few pounds without losing athleticism though. Also if your looking for someone to do dual duty on the O-line, which I completely agree with, I'd rather have someone that's OT/OG. I think Rick Wagner is plenty fast to play RT in the NFL, he's played some LT in college. Even if he did turn out to be to slow for RT he'd probably be a stud OG in our system with his athleticism, thus he could be starting RT or starting OG if needed. I also like Alvin Bailey, Dallas Thomas, Gabe Jackson, and Braden Hansen if your looking for a later round OG.

Does the 2013 draft seem to be pretty talent rich/deep to you? I don't like the depth at TE but other than that this seems like it's going to be a very good draft with good talent down into the 3rd-4th round.I almost forgot to finish my thoughts on your post.
I see Wagner as more of a RG but same could be said for Winston and despite many fans wanting to move Eric inside, he remained a tackle for us and his new team. I think we should see a bit more of Harris as he has had some time to acclimate & can give Newton some breathing space.


2013 draft is deep in some positions (at our picks) such as O line, DT, QB and OLBs; not so deep at ILB, WRs, DBs and RBs. Fortunately as I evaluate Texans today and how my newest mock shows, we can improve depth at Nose and Oline (2 players minimum) in first two quality picks & still get good guys all thru draft if we are as wise as last draft.

My concerns are RT, RG, MLB and WR2. We have good fall backs in first two (if Harris is as expected) but not so good in last two. Most will argue with me but I think we are very weak behind Bradie James and worse if AJ goes out for many games. We have no WR to replace AJ although Martin and/or Jean could still step up. Martin was pretty good overall in preseason but doodley squat in first two regular games. That is why I take ILB in 5th and WR in 4th. I hope I can change my mock before draft day to select only BPA each round.

Wolf6151
09-22-2012, 03:07 AM
I know we've been mocking lately with an extra pick in the 3rd and 5th because of the expected comp. picks next year but remember that Tate is a FA after the 2013 season and I think Rick Smith would be foolish not to trade him this coming offseason. While I'd really like an extra 1st round pick, I think it's more realistic that we get a 2nd and another later round pick for him. How'd your new draft look with an extra 2nd rounder thrown in there? Makes ya drool don't it. Also I have to disagree with you on the depth at a couple positions in the 2013 draft, I think the secondary positions are quite good. Safety isn't great but their's much better depth than the last couple Safety drafts, and I think this could be a very good CB draft depending on who declares.

badboy
09-23-2012, 08:35 PM
Thanks for feedback. Just some thoughts: I think Khalid Jones gets caught up in the Alabama hype during the draft and goes unnoticed if that is correct word. I think in second round there will be some panic in teams above us who will over reach to get a player that should go in third but will be selected in second. Examples: QB Zach Dysert, CB Justin Gilbert, OT Ricky Wagner, and if he can stay on the team RB Christine Michael.

Hopefully, Holmes will slip out of minds and fall to us.Just noticed I typed Khalid Jones above rather than Holmes. I was thinking of Ben Jones as I typed that. I want to compare them but not on my tv schedule this weekend. If any of you have an thoughts on how the two center guards compare other than size I'm interested.

badboy
09-23-2012, 09:12 PM
I know we've been mocking lately with an extra pick in the 3rd and 5th because of the expected comp. picks next year but remember that Tate is a FA after the 2013 season and I think Rick Smith would be foolish not to trade him this coming offseason. While I'd really like an extra 1st round pick, I think it's more realistic that we get a 2nd and another later round pick for him. How'd your new draft look with an extra 2nd rounder thrown in there? Makes ya drool don't it. Also I have to disagree with you on the depth at a couple positions in the 2013 draft, I think the secondary positions are quite good. Safety isn't great but their's much better depth than the last couple Safety drafts, and I think this could be a very good CB draft depending on who declares.I will see you and raise you! lol Remember the 2011 draft when we trade a 3 & 5 for a two and selected Brandon Harris? We were strong enough at CB to let him sit and learn for a season. My bid could be trade both 3s and 5s for late round seconds. Trade our own 2nd & our 4th for top of second round (maybe Miami who has two 2nds). That gives us a high second & two end of round seconds.

Anyone think after Texans held McGahee to 12/36, Denver might give up a late (say #22) for Tate? I'd think Manning would be screaming for a RB tomorrow. Texans: Two firsts and three seconds. Give me a mock with that!
:texanbill:

Wolf6151
09-24-2012, 01:39 AM
I will see you and raise you! lol Remember the 2011 draft when we trade a 3 & 5 for a two and selected Brandon Harris? We were strong enough at CB to let him sit and learn for a season. My bid could be trade both 3s and 5s for late round seconds. Trade our own 2nd & our 4th for top of second round (maybe Miami who has two 2nds). That gives us a high second & two end of round seconds.

Anyone think after Texans held McGahee to 12/36, Denver might give up a late (say #22) for Tate? I'd think Manning would be screaming for a RB tomorrow. Texans: Two firsts and three seconds. Give me a mock with that!
:texanbill:


You can't trade Comp. picks, you have to use them. As for the second bolded area, I'd bust a nut over a draft like that if it were possible as long as they lock Kubiak in a closet on draft day.

beerlover
09-24-2012, 09:04 AM
You can't trade Comp. picks, you have to use them. As for the second bolded area, I'd bust a nut over a draft like that if it were possible as long as they lock Kubiak in a closet on draft day.

The smart thing to do is use the comp picks & trade extra picks to leverage higher future picks thereby stocking the cupboards ala New England style.

badboy
09-24-2012, 09:55 AM
You can't trade Comp. picks, you have to use them. As for the second bolded area, I'd bust a nut over a draft like that if it were possible as long as they lock Kubiak in a closet on draft day.First I heard of not trading comps. Please provide link confirmation. That would be good info.

badboy
09-24-2012, 10:03 AM
The smart thing to do is use the comp picks & trade extra picks to leverage higher future picks thereby stocking the cupboards ala New England style.I'd be good with using first two or three rounds for players and trading the rest.

Example use 1, 2 and comp 3 for draft & trade rest of our picks for higher future selections. We could use the fifth round comp for a project guy in draft. I am also okay with trading up 2013 & following drafts to select one very good player. At some point though you will need to start replacing expensive vets with more than first three rounds. At some point, law of diminishing returns will impact veterans and also not every selection in first three will be a positive. I guess the PS will also take on greater value in future to train guys up.

steelbtexan
09-24-2012, 11:10 AM
I would like to use Tate to try to move up and get Matts eventual replacement. (I like Murray)

Then use a 2-3-5 to move into the bottom of the 1st and take Jessie Williams.

Go with BPA with the comp pick and 4th rd pick.

badboy
09-24-2012, 01:07 PM
I would like to use Tate to try to move up and get Matts eventual replacement. (I like Murray)

Then use a 2-3-5 to move into the bottom of the 1st and take Jessie Williams.

Go with BPA with the comp pick and 4th rd pick.Interesting but don't see need for drafting a QB for at least two seasons & by then should know more aboute Yates and Keenum. I was kicking some thoughts around about a trade for Tate this offseason & would use a late first for Tate on either A&Ms RT Matthews or Barrett Jones. Our own late first for Jesse Williams. If we could trade our second, 3rd and 5th for a late first that would be good.

Just thinking out loud but:

1a (Tate) RT Jake Matthews Texas A&M
1b (2,3 & 5th) OG/OT/C Barrett Jones Alabama
1c Texans NT Jesse Williams Alabama

New CBA would hold costs down and that would set our O line for years. We could pick up players with round 3 comp, 4th and 5th round comp.

Wolf6151
09-26-2012, 04:47 AM
BB, I watched some more video the last few days and am beginning to agree with you regarding Rick Wagner-OT, and Micah Hyde-CB. Wagner does look a little slow for the NFL, he looks good against college guys but I can see what your saying, he'd have real trouble with NFL speed pass rushers. If drafted as an OT he's probably a 3rd round pick but should probably be moved to OG where he could be a early 2nd. He'd be a stud OG for the Texans. I'm also agreeing with you about Micah Hyde-CB, he does look stiff and could probably be good in zone coverage but FS seems to be his more natural position in the NFL.

I liked what I saw in Terry Hawthorne-CB and Jordan Poyer-CB. I think Hawthorne is a 2nd round pick and Poyer can maybe be had in the 3rd. Johnny Adams looked alright but not special, and Logan Ryan looked like a 4th round CB or a future FS.

I watched some video on Dallas Thomas-OT/OG and was impressed. Tenn. has moved him inside to OG this year but he's been playing OT for several years and looks to have the athleticism/agility to play RT in the NFL.

badboy
09-26-2012, 10:18 AM
BB, I watched some more video the last few days and am beginning to agree with you regarding Rick Wagner-OT, and Micah Hyde-CB. Wagner does look a little slow for the NFL, he looks good against college guys but I can see what your saying, he'd have real trouble with NFL speed pass rushers. If drafted as an OT he's probably a 3rd round pick but should probably be moved to OG where he could be a early 2nd. He'd be a stud OG for the Texans. I'm also agreeing with you about Micah Hyde-CB, he does look stiff and could probably be good in zone coverage but FS seems to be his more natural position in the NFL.

I liked what I saw in Terry Hawthorne-CB and Jordan Poyer-CB. I think Hawthorne is a 2nd round pick and Poyer can maybe be had in the 3rd. Johnny Adams looked alright but not special, and Logan Ryan looked like a 4th round CB or a future FS.

I watched some video on Dallas Thomas-OT/OG and was impressed. Tenn. has moved him inside to OG this year but he's been playing OT for several years and looks to have the athleticism/agility to play RT in the NFL.IMO Wagner has Eric Winston written all over him. I think with Newton and Harris (if he remains healthy) we are past Winston type RT. I am hoping Barrett Jones Alabama who has started at OT & OG and is now center or A&Ms Matthews drops to us. Matthews reminds me a lot of his dad during Bruce's first season. Oline prospects are deep but most seem to need a lot of work. I will be big on trade ups this time as we now need quality over quantity maybe for first time.

At one point Walterfootball.com had Poyer going to Texans IIRC. Oregan St plays Arizona late Saturday but not sure which channels. I see Poyer more as a CB and his build concerns me as a tackling safety. Here is a ranking from July with some of my guys Dion Jordan and Khalid Holmes ranked. Poyer is listed #7. Read the header! http://premierscoutservices.com/2012/07/09/2013-western-nfl-draft-eligible-prospects-ranking-1-10/

beerlover
09-26-2012, 11:58 AM
It's going to be tuff to sit around & wait until the 32nd pick next April :doot:

Rick Smith might actually have to trade up to guarantee Texans add another young stud to this organization. If comp picks pan out to be true they could use their regular slotted picks to move up into top 15 & snag Notre Dame ILB Monti Te'o? I can't think of a singular upgrade available who could solidify this team moving forward more. Next to Cushing, middle of Texan run defense would be virtually impenetrable.

:wesmantexanfan:

badboy
09-26-2012, 01:39 PM
It's going to be tuff to sit around & wait until the 32nd pick next April :doot:

Rick Smith might actually have to trade up to guarantee Texans add another young stud to this organization. If comp picks pan out to be true they could use their regular slotted picks to move up into top 15 & snag Notre Dame ILB Monti Te'o? I can't think of a singular upgrade available who could solidify this team moving forward more. Next to Cushing, middle of Texan run defense would be virtually impenetrable.

:wesmantexanfan:Agree on trade up. I really liked Te'o last season but have not watched him much so far this year. My idea of selecting Dont'a Hightower in first round 2102 seems even better now. OLB even if Barwin leaves should be stronger than MLB now.

badboy
09-26-2012, 02:15 PM
Some info on Te'o http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=89462&draftyear=2013&genpos=ILB

FYI his grandmother died recently then his girlfriend right after with leukemia

BattleRedToro
09-27-2012, 06:19 AM
Agree on trade up. I really liked Te'o last season but have not watched him much so far this year. My idea of selecting Dont'a Hightower in first round 2102 seems even better now. OLB even if Barwin leaves should be stronger than MLB now.

I'm not sure a team would have to move up that far to get Manti Te'o. He might still be available a little later than that. Its too early to say for sure where he'll be picked, but I do like the idea of him playing alongside Cushing.

badboy
09-27-2012, 12:42 PM
I'm not sure a team would have to move up that far to get Manti Te'o. He might still be available a little later than that. Its too early to say for sure where he'll be picked, but I do like the idea of him playing alongside Cushing.While I do not agree with it, I did see a ranking yesterday that had him 7th best player in draft.
While I so think MLB is a concern I do not see a major upgrade in '13 draft. I'm hoping James can continue to get better as he locks in with his teammates.