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Dutchrudder
08-22-2012, 11:52 AM
Well this is interesting. There are only a few teams that really need a running back, and that can afford MJD's new demands of (I'm guessing here) roughly 8 million a year. If I'm the Bengals, Broncos or Packers, I get on the phone right now and see what they want for him. They are all good teams severely lacking a RB right now. MJD on any of them would be sick. MJD in the backfield with Aaron Rodgers? Instantly the best team in the division by far, and the NFC favorite. No question there. I'd give two Packers' 1sts for him.


...

Last week, however, Khan said MJD's absence "doesn't even move the needle" in terms of stress. Khan reiterated his stance Tuesday by saying, "This is not a team about one person."

His message to Jones-Drew?

"Train's leaving the station. Run, get on it," Khan said.

Bakari made it clear that those statements don't sit well with Jacksonville's biggest star.

"Obviously, he's not happy that what started as a very cordial and private conversation is now public and contentious," Bakari said.

Now, with both sides seemingly digging their heels in as deeply as possibly, it is unclear when or if Jones-Drew will show up in Jacksonville. The Jaguars open the season Sept. 9 at Minnesota.

Jones-Drew's holdout is fairly simple. He wants a new deal after leading the NFL with 1,606 yards rushing last season. He has two years remaining on a five-year, front-loaded contract worth $31 million. He is scheduled to make $4.45 million this season and $4.95 million in 2013.

Khan and general manager Gene Smith insist they have no plans to negotiate a new deal with MJD, not wanting to set a precedent of paying players with two years remaining on lucrative deals that included large signing bonuses.

Jones-Drew skipped the team's entire offseason workout program, including a mandatory, three-day minicamp last month. If new coach Mike Mularkey is fining Jones-Drew the maximum allowed under the collective bargaining agreement -- $20,000 for each day of minicamp and $30,000 for each day since training camp opened -- the total is up to $870,000.

...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8290567/sources-holdout-jacksonville-jaguars-running-back-maurice-jones-drew-now-open-trade

Playoffs
08-22-2012, 12:06 PM
Report: MJD open to bridging gap with Jaguars (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/22/report-mjd-open-to-bridging-gap-with-jaguars/)

Posted by Josh Alper on August 22, 2012
...
Jones-Drew wasn’t happy that Khan told him it was time to run and catch the train before it leaves the station, leading to reports that MJD was open to a trade and speculation that his holdout could last into the regular season. There was no formal trade request, though, and Steve Wyche of the NFL Network reported Wednesday morning on NFL AM that the Jaguars running back remains open to making it work in Jacksonville.

“After speaking to his agent, Adisa Bakari, he’s also open to bridging what is becoming a more fractured relationship because of the comments of Khan, not only Tuesday, but late last week,” said Wyche. “The issue is who is going to extend the olive branch if there is going to be a reparation, because Jones-Drew, he is further entrenched in his holdout — he does not like the situation, the fact that Khan is discussing publicly what was supposed to be handled in private.”

b0ng
08-22-2012, 12:13 PM
He would really hurt his value he may be building up for a future deal by doing this but he is an RB. That offense is probably going to be Real Bad again if MJD isn't there.

Ryan
08-22-2012, 12:15 PM
And if he does report to the Jags eventually he owes $800,000 in fines from missing all of training camp.

Playoffs
08-22-2012, 12:18 PM
Yeah, I think the new Jags owner is wrong taking this public & trying to humiliate MJD. He needs to keep his mustache shut.

If Jacksonville wasn't so apathetic about football, there'd be a public outcry. MJD is a great guy -- on the field & in the community.

Double Barrel
08-22-2012, 12:19 PM
He has two years remaining on a five-year, front-loaded contract worth $31 million. He is scheduled to make $4.45 million this season and $4.95 million in 2013.

Cry me a river. Get over it. You signed on the dotted line, and with two years left, the Jaguars would be fools to pay this guy $8 million/year.

eriadoc
08-22-2012, 12:24 PM
Cry me a river. Get over it. You signed on the dotted line, and with two years left, the Jaguars would be fools to pay this guy $8 million/year.

Not only that, but he signed a front-loaded deal to make sure he got what he felt he was worth. The team paid him up front based on expectations. So when he met those expectations, he started crying about his contract.

Business is business, and if he can get it then good for him. But if I were the Jags owner, I'd probably tell him to go to hell. Actually, I'd write clauses in that say if you don't fulfill the contract, then you have to pay back the money.

Doppelganger
08-22-2012, 01:20 PM
Yeah, I think the new Jags owner is wrong taking this public & trying to humiliate MJD. He needs to keep his mustache shut.

If Jacksonville wasn't so apathetic about football, there'd be a public outcry. MJD is a great guy -- on the field & in the community.

The jags owner is in the right here. MJD demanded a contract front loaded so he could get paid and got it. Now he has gotten to the leaner part, he no longer wants to play for it. MJD still has 2 YEARS on his contract. Here is the thing: MJD led the league in rushing and the jags still stunk. The Jags owner has wisely made this a public issue and has made MJD look small and petty. The Jags owner wants MJD to HONOR his contract while MJD thinks his 4 mill plus salary is too low. MJD has lost, for the most part, the support of the fans. In this case, its not the ownership low balling, its a player refusing to play for a contract with 2 years still on it.

If I were the ownership I would not trade him. I would tell him show up or sit out: its your choice.

NastyNate
08-22-2012, 01:36 PM
I'd get two firsts for him or pay the man. That's a huge part of their team, they're an average qb away from the playoffs. If Gabbert can make any sort of improvement from last year, with MJD in the backfield they'll still be dangerous. It's not like we were blowing them out last year.

thunderkyss
08-22-2012, 01:45 PM
The jags owner is in the right here. MJD demanded a contract front loaded so he could get paid and got it. Now he has gotten to the leaner part, he no longer wants to play for it. MJD still has 2 YEARS on his contract. Here is the thing: MJD led the league in rushing and the jags still stunk. The Jags owner has wisely made this a public issue and has made MJD look small and petty. The Jags owner wants MJD to HONOR his contract while MJD thinks his 4 mill plus salary is too low. MJD has lost, for the most part, the support of the fans. In this case, its not the ownership low balling, its a player refusing to play for a contract with 2 years still on it.

If I were the ownership I would not trade him. I would tell him show up or sit out: its your choice.

Well, if I'm MJD's agent I'm telling him to force the trade. Yes the contract was front loaded, but if he had a career poor year they'd be talking about cutting him, especially with a few young stallions in the stable.

If you take his guaranteed money and his salary over the last 3 years, it averages $8M/year. That's what he gave them imo. He should get $8M for next year as well. I think he deserves a new contract.

But the Jags are in a good position. MJD is probably not going to be the difference between a play-off run & a top 15 pick for the Jags. But a team like Greenbay maybe even NYJets.... they might be willing to part with a future 2nd & 3rd to secure a back like MJD.

Dutchrudder
08-22-2012, 01:50 PM
For those of you saying he should shut up and play, I agree with you. Look at his contract details:

Jones-Drew signed a four-year extension, that makes for a five-year deal worth $31 million. A $17.5 million signing bonus in guaranteed, sources told ESPN.com.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4070094

So 17.5 million in signing bonus, divided by 5 years, is 3.5 million a year in cap hit. While he may have gotten a nice payday in the first year, his cap hit for the Jags has been consistently around 8 million dollars. LINK (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/maurice-jones-drew/) That's just stupid to hold out now because the salary dips, he's truly getting paid as well as Foster, McCoy, and slightly less than AP or CJ. I have no sympathy for him in that case.

Edit: the reason why the numbers are kind of weird is because it was a 4 year extension added with 1 year remaining on his previous deal. The math is off a bit, but the cap hit numbers should be about right.

thunderkyss
08-22-2012, 01:55 PM
For those of you saying he should shut up and play, I agree with you. Look at his contract details:


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4070094

So 17.5 million in signing bonus, divided by 5 years, is 3.5 million a year in cap hit. While he may have gotten a nice payday in the first year, his cap hit for the Jags has been consistently around 8 million dollars. LINK (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/maurice-jones-drew/) That's just stupid to hold out now because the salary dips, he's truly getting paid as well as Foster, McCoy, and slightly less than AP or CJ. I have no sympathy for him in that case.

Edit: the reason why the numbers are kind of weird is because it was a 4 year extension added with 1 year remaining on his previous deal. The math is off a bit, but the cap hit numbers should be about right.

5 goes into 31 a little more than 6 times. There's no way he's been an 8M/yr cap hit for the Jags. He is & has been worth 8M/yr & if the Jags don't want to pay it someone else will & the Jags should get something in return.

Doppelganger
08-22-2012, 02:29 PM
Well, if I'm MJD's agent I'm telling him to force the trade. Yes the contract was front loaded, but if he had a career poor year they'd be talking about cutting him, especially with a few young stallions in the stable.

If you take his guaranteed money and his salary over the last 3 years, it averages $8M/year. That's what he gave them imo. He should get $8M for next year as well. I think he deserves a new contract.

But the Jags are in a good position. MJD is probably not going to be the difference between a play-off run & a top 15 pick for the Jags. But a team like Greenbay maybe even NYJets.... they might be willing to part with a future 2nd & 3rd to secure a back like MJD.

I think the jags need to hold firm. The worst thing you can do is establish a bad precedent. Players need to understand that contracts will only be looked at when there is 1 year left on the deal. If you pay MJD, other Jags will do the same thing. They may ask for when there is 3 years or more. Maybe they will ask for a new contracts every year. No. The problem has to be nipped in the bud. Trading him only reinforces the issue. The Jags need to operate like the Steelers and the Patriots. They draw a line in the sand and keep it that way. The Jags need to do that as well.

thunderkyss
08-22-2012, 02:42 PM
I think the jags need to hold firm. The worst thing you can do is establish a bad precedent. Players need to understand that contracts will only be looked at when there is 1 year left on the deal. If you pay MJD, other Jags will do the same thing. They may ask for when there is 3 years or more. Maybe they will ask for a new contracts every year. No. The problem has to be nipped in the bud. Trading him only reinforces the issue. The Jags need to operate like the Steelers and the Patriots. They draw a line in the sand and keep it that way. The Jags need to do that as well.

The Patriots would have already traded him & the Steelers never would have paid him to begin with. & as far as precedence goes, next time a player leads the league in rushing, we'll be at the table. Rewards & recognition in a WHYDFML league goes a long way.

Playoffs
08-22-2012, 02:57 PM
The jags owner is in the right here...
I disagree. Bob McNair would defer questions to his GM, and Rick Smith would keep it in house. Neither McNair nor Smith would attempt to draw laughter & attention to themselves at the expense of the player, much less one of the character on & off the field of MJD.

PapaL
08-22-2012, 03:42 PM
Is he the best player on that team? By Far.
Should he be crying about having 2 years left? Nope
Then again it is his HIS money, HIS health, and HIS career.

Hell didn't we redo AJ's deal when he had 2 years left on it?

Dutchrudder
08-22-2012, 03:59 PM
5 goes into 31 a little more than 6 times. There's no way he's been an 8M/yr cap hit for the Jags. He is & has been worth 8M/yr & if the Jags don't want to pay it someone else will & the Jags should get something in return.

You're not understanding it right. He signed a 4 year extension with one year left on his rookie deal. Rookie deals cannot be modified, so he had to play out the last year of it, which apparently was worth ~4 million, likely due to performance escalators (like Duane Brown this year gets and extra 1 mill for his performance in 2011). MJD had 14 TDs in 2008, so it wouldn't be surprising to see him get escalators in 2009. (no source on that, only speculation)

There are conflicting reports of the signing bonus for the deal, but the total numbers still add up to 33 million over 4 years. Rotoworld:

4/15/2009: Signed a five-year, $30.95 million contract. The deal contains $17.5 million guaranteed, including a $9 million signing bonus and Jones-Drew's base salaries in years one and two. Another $1.8 million is available through incentives. 2012: $4.45 million, 2013: $4.95 million, 2014: Free Agent

The signing bonus was 9 million for the extension, years 1 and 2 of the extension were guaranteed, which add up to 8.5 million. That's where the 17 million guaranteed comes from.

He also had another 1.8 million in incentives (showing up to camp, work out, etc) that were easily obtainable. So the total extension was ~33 million over 4 years, which comes out to an average of 8.25 million a year. It goes down a bit if you average in that last year of his rookie deal, but the bottom line is that he has been in the 8 million a year range since 2010. He has no grounds to claim he's being underpaid right now.

Dutchrudder
08-22-2012, 04:08 PM
Is he the best player on that team? By Far.
Should he be crying about having 2 years left? Nope
Then again it is his HIS money, HIS health, and HIS career.

Hell didn't we redo AJ's deal when he had 2 years left on it?

Yes, and it was his own damn fault for hiring a moron of an "agent" who was related to him. He didn't report to camp on time that year until they had a deal in principle. Redoing that deal is going to hurt this team down the road if AJ can't stay healthy, he still has a lot of guaranteed money left on it. I love AJ, but that was a dumb decision on the organization's part.

Owner Bob McNair gave Johnson a $13 million guarantee. Johnson’s extension is two years for a base of $23.5 million. It has a maximum value of $38.5 million.

lemon squares (www.texanstalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1999525)

HOU-TEX
08-22-2012, 04:16 PM
MJD has zero leverage and is basically making himself look foolish. Actually, both sides are being foolish by acting this way through the media. Using the media as the "middle man" is ridiculous.

Double Barrel
08-22-2012, 04:16 PM
Yes, and it was his own damn fault for hiring a moron of an "agent" who was related to him. He didn't report to camp on time that year until they had a deal in principle. Redoing that deal is going to hurt this team down the road if AJ can't stay healthy, he still has a lot of guaranteed money left on it. I love AJ, but that was a dumb decision on the organization's part.



lemon squares (www.texanstalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1999525)

AJ missed some OTAs earlier that year, but showed up at TC on time.

Johnson participated in the team's first training camp workout on Friday, setting aside his still-unresolved contract situation. He wants a new deal, even though he has five years left on his current $60 million contract, but he also said he didn't want to become a team distraction by holding out.

"I know if I wasn't here, it would be a big thing," Johnson said.

------------

Johnson's desire for a new contract came to light in the summer, when he skipped three voluntary workouts during offseason training activities. He took the field on Friday with the contract out of his mind.

Source (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5423773)

Dutchrudder
08-22-2012, 04:21 PM
AJ missed some OTAs earlier that year, but showed up at TC on time.

Eh, same difference. In any case, 5 years 50 million left on his deal wasn't enough for the great and humble AJ, yet nobody seems to rag on him about it. Pretty ridiculous when you compare that with other guys who get lampooned for holding out. He's in it for the money just as much as everyone else, he just doesn't run his mouth off about it.

Double Barrel
08-22-2012, 04:32 PM
Eh, same difference. In any case, 5 years 50 million left on his deal wasn't enough for the great and humble AJ, yet nobody seems to rag on him about it. Pretty ridiculous when you compare that with other guys who get lampooned for holding out. He's in it for the money just as much as everyone else, he just doesn't run his mouth off about it.

I don't see it as the same difference. OTA's are voluntary in the spring. Training camp is not, and even impacts the team with media distractions and first team practices just weeks away from the start of the regular season.

I do recall some folks not being pleased with AJ at the time, as well.

Besides, MJD is not the same at his position as AJ was at his in 2010. AJ was widely considered the best WR in the game at the time. I have never heard anyone even attempt to make that argument for MJD.

I understand what you're saying, though, and agree that these guys want to get paid. That being said, AJ was never a little biatch about it by missing TC and pre-season games, which clearly impacts a team going into a regular season. AJ said that he did not want to be a distraction. It appears that MJD does not feel the same way.

Obviously, the Texans had a lot more love for AJ than the Jaguars do for MJD. Anyone else on this team not named Andre Johnson would not have been given the same treatment by local media, fans, or the Texans FO. AJ is the exception to the rule for us. MJD is overplaying his hand with the Jaguars.

Besides, I'm not a fan of MJD and really dislike the Jags as a division rival, so I'm going full homer mode by wishing bad stuff for our opponents. ;)

Texanmike02
08-22-2012, 04:39 PM
If I were the Jags I would force him to play. I'm not going to reward him with a trade to a contender. I'd be on the phone right now to see if Fisher needs a RB to lighten the load a little.

That or send him to a team that thinks they are ready to have a break out year only to falter (buffalo, we are looking at you).

Mike

Hervoyel
08-22-2012, 06:08 PM
Yeah, I think the new Jags owner is wrong taking this public & trying to humiliate MJD. He needs to keep his mustache shut.

If Jacksonville wasn't so apathetic about football, there'd be a public outcry. MJD is a great guy -- on the field & in the community.

Indeed he is wrong but be honest, isn't it nice to have some other owner in the division making the newbie mistakes for a change?

gtexan02
08-22-2012, 06:25 PM
Eh, same difference. In any case, 5 years 50 million left on his deal wasn't enough for the great and humble AJ, yet nobody seems to rag on him about it. Pretty ridiculous when you compare that with other guys who get lampooned for holding out. He's in it for the money just as much as everyone else, he just doesn't run his mouth off about it.

Our fan base is wacky with AJ. I remember fans wanting us to trade him so that AJ could go to a winning team. At our expense

thunderkyss
08-22-2012, 07:06 PM
If I were Jacksonville, I'd use this opportunity to get something for the little bowling ball. He is their best player, but he's a running back & father time is going to catch up to him.

If interest is significant.... like someone offering me a 2nd, or two thirds in the upcoming draft, I'd take it.

Jackie Chiles
08-22-2012, 07:48 PM
Trade him to the Lakers for garbage. Oh wait, this isn't the NBA. Thank God.

TexanSam
08-22-2012, 07:57 PM
I hope he's traded simply to get him out of our division. I hate facing that dude twice a year.

Fili
08-22-2012, 08:01 PM
Jags would be stupid enough to trade the running muscle.

Kaiser Toro
08-22-2012, 09:08 PM
They have been able to lose with him, and should have no problem losing without him.

majestrate
08-23-2012, 12:15 AM
Jags would be stupid enough to trade the running muscle.
On the flip side, I think they'd be very smart to say "we're going to spend the next 2 or 3 years rebuilding" and trade MJD for draft picks. I like MJD, I'd like to see him go someplace where he has a shot at getting a ring before he retires.

He's actually very personable and intelligent. Sure, now and then he uses "netspeak" in his tweets, but by-and-large, he keeps his composure. I think he's a great role model for kids, if they're going to choose an athlete for their inspiration. And that's why I hope he finds a place where he'll shine and be able to play in The Big One at some point.

HJam72
08-23-2012, 11:16 AM
I hope he's traded simply to get him out of our division. I hate facing that dude twice a year.


I like MJD, I'd like to see him go someplace where he has a shot at getting a ring before he retires.


Guys, I like him too, but here's the thing:

MJD on the Jags doesn't scare me; but, MJD on the Broncos with Manning against us in the AFC Championship DOES scare me. I don't want MJD getting a ring AT THE EXPENSE OF THE HOUSTON TEXANS... :specnatz:

Dutchrudder
08-23-2012, 12:21 PM
I don't see it as the same difference. OTA's are voluntary in the spring. Training camp is not, and even impacts the team with media distractions and first team practices just weeks away from the start of the regular season.

Why does it matter what type of camp he's sitting out? He was clearly making a statement with his absence and immediately went to OTAs once an agreement in principle was reached. If he didn't get that deal before training camp, I'm sure he would have been sitting out based on his agent's advice.

I do recall some folks not being pleased with AJ at the time, as well.

Besides, MJD is not the same at his position as AJ was at his in 2010. AJ was widely considered the best WR in the game at the time. I have never heard anyone even attempt to make that argument for MJD.

I don't know how you can say that. AJ was great for two years and then demanded a second payday. MJD just finished the season with 1606 yards, 374 receiving, and 11 TDs. He is definitely in the conversation as the best RB in the league. The only drawback to him is his age, he's 28.

I understand what you're saying, though, and agree that these guys want to get paid. That being said, AJ was never a little biatch about it by missing TC and pre-season games, which clearly impacts a team going into a regular season. AJ said that he did not want to be a distraction. It appears that MJD does not feel the same way.

I can agree with that, but then you can't say that players shouldn't hold out for more money. Unless of course, that's part of the issue here, which I think it is and is why I bring up the sacred AJ. I haven't read any quotes from MJD that make him sound like a 'little *****', but I have read a lot of disparaging things from the owner and organization.

Obviously, the Texans had a lot more love for AJ than the Jaguars do for MJD. Anyone else on this team not named Andre Johnson would not have been given the same treatment by local media, fans, or the Texans FO. AJ is the exception to the rule for us. MJD is overplaying his hand with the Jaguars.

Both of them have/had top 5 contracts for their position at the time they were signed. AJ wanted more than the 5 years 50 million he had left, so he held out and got it. At the time, he was the third/fourth highest paid WR in the league, but the extension made him #1. That to me is much more greedy than any other holdout I have seen. Even without the holdout, there is absolutely no reason to renegotiate a deal like that, except for greed, personal pride and other selfish reasons.

My point is, I don't think anyone should come in here and bash MJD while giving our hometown hero a pass for basically the same thing. MJD has been a quality person throughout his career, never had trouble with the law and he's a good family man. Married and has three kids with his wife, no other baby mamas that I know of. Giving him an extension after being the best RB in the league last year isn't crazy.

Double Barrel
08-23-2012, 12:54 PM
Why does it matter what type of camp he's sitting out? He was clearly making a statement with his absence and immediately went to OTAs once an agreement in principle was reached. If he didn't get that deal before training camp, I'm sure he would have been sitting out based on his agent's advice.

One, OTAs, is a voluntary workout in the spring that does not have a financial penalty for abstaining.

The other is a mandatory camp weeks before the regular season that does have a pretty heavy financial penalty for missing.

I'm not sure how you can say these two things are the same.

As far as AJ, you'll have to substantiate your claim that there was an "agreement in principle" for him to attend training camp, because I have read nothing to support that particular assertion. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but just that I have read nothing in reading those articles that reveals a deal was in place just waiting for signatures.

I don't know how you can say that. AJ was great for two years and then demanded a second payday. MJD just finished the season with 1606 yards, 374 receiving, and 11 TDs. He is definitely in the conversation as the best RB in the league. The only drawback to him is his age, he's 28.

"Drawback" for a RB is age? How about that being a primary issue, considering the average career length of power rushers in the NFL.

I do not see it as an apt comparison to use different positions when one clearly has a much shorter life cycle on average in the NFL. Not too many RBs are running hard in their mid-30's, and very rarely when they are power running backs.

Both of them have/had top 5 contracts for their position at the time they were signed. AJ wanted more than the 5 years 50 million he had left, so he held out and got it. At the time, he was the third/fourth highest paid WR in the league, but the extension made him #1. That to me is much more greedy than any other holdout I have seen. Even without the holdout, there is absolutely no reason to renegotiate a deal like that, except for greed, personal pride and other selfish reasons.

That's not what you said at the time. As a matter of fact, you're words were that the team OWED it to AJ for restructuring his previous deal to benefit the team's salary cap:

AJ did a favor for management when he restructured his contract to help them get some more cap space, now they owe him a favor back. I seriously doubt he will hold out on the team through mandatory training camp, so I see this as a way for the team to give him a big bonus in an un-capped year, and increase his guaranteed money over the next 4 years. He should get a bonus of 6-10 million this year, and up his guaranteed money over the next 4 so that he makes at least 5 million a year base salary. Put in incentives in for Pro-bowl and All-pro honors and you should have him locked up through 2015 at cheaper rate. The Texans took advantage of the uncapped year to pay Demeco Ryans a buttload of money, and it will help the team a lot in the future if the salary cap comes back into play.

You can't have it both ways. Was AJ selfish or did the Texans owe it to him?

My take in that thread was that AJ was this franchise's sole superstar and they will take care of him as a business decision and public relations / locker room positive boost.


My point is, I don't think anyone should come in here and bash MJD while giving our hometown hero a pass for basically the same thing. MJD has been a quality person throughout his career, never had trouble with the law and he's a good family man. Married and has three kids with his wife, no other baby mamas that I know of. Giving him an extension after being the best RB in the league last year isn't crazy.

'eh, like I said, I do not see WR and RB as being comparable positions. Paying a 28 year old power runner a new contract for $8 million a year is not a good business decision.

MJD's position with the Jaguars today is simply not the same as AJ's relevance with the Texans in 2010. And that's my point. If this was Calvin Johnson holding out with the Lions, I could see the comparison with AJ's situation.

Obviously, the Jaguars do not feel the same way about MJD right now as the Texans FO felt about AJ in 2010.

thunderkyss
08-23-2012, 01:11 PM
You can't have it both ways. Was AJ selfish or did the Texans owe it to him?

My take in that thread was that AJ was this franchise's sole superstar and they will take care of him as a business decision and public relations / locker room positive boost.



MJD's position with the Jaguars today is simply not the same as AJ's relevance with the Texans



I personally think it's the same thing. MJD was their offense in 2011. He lead the league in rushing when they had no offense. I think he has earned a renegotiation. If they don't want to pay him, trade him & get something for him.

Dutchrudder
08-23-2012, 02:23 PM
One, OTAs, is a voluntary workout in the spring that does not have a financial penalty for abstaining.

The other is a mandatory camp weeks before the regular season that does have a pretty heavy financial penalty for missing.

I'm not sure how you can say these two things are the same.

Not participating in a team activity, and using it as a way to call attention to your contract situation is pretty much the same thing. They were both doing it, the team activity is moot.

As far as AJ, you'll have to substantiate your claim that there was an "agreement in principle" for him to attend training camp, because I have read nothing to support that particular assertion. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but just that I have read nothing in reading those articles that reveals a deal was in place just waiting for signatures.

Yeah, gonna have to backtrack on that one. I thought they had a deal, apparently he ended his holdout once Rick Smith and his agent agreed to meet to discuss an extension/new deal: LINK (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-WR-Johnson-set-to-report-to-OTAs-1700249.php)
You know what they say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease... :)

"Drawback" for a RB is age? How about that being a primary issue, considering the average career length of power rushers in the NFL.

I do not see it as an apt comparison to use different positions when one clearly has a much shorter life cycle on average in the NFL. Not too many RBs are running hard in their mid-30's, and very rarely when they are power running backs.

Yeah, I agree that the Jags are doing the right thing by not giving him an extension with new money. I also think AJ didn't really need an extension either. Coincidentally, AJ was also 28 when his holdout was going on, but as you say the NFL lifespan of a WR is very different from a RB. In any case, I don't think it's smart for any player to be under contract for more than 5 years at any given time. Given the nature of the sport, it's not prudent to take on the risk of injury and be stuck with the bill for a player who can no longer perform.

That's not what you said at the time. As a matter of fact, you're words were that the team OWED it to AJ for restructuring his previous deal to benefit the team's salary cap:



You can't have it both ways. Was AJ selfish or did the Texans owe it to him?

Yeah, I still agree with that post, and yes asking for more money with 5 years left on a deal is greedy. Sure he has done plenty to help out this team by restructuring his deal, but that doesn't mean this instance wasn't greedy.

That post you quoted was saying to take the existing contract and move a bunch of money to the uncapped year, then guarantee the last couple years at 5 million each, because he only had 15 mill guaranteed. I don't believe I ever advocated giving him 2 years and 23-38 million more. If they did what I suggested, we wouldn't be worrying about money to re-sign Barwin. Instead we have a 10 million dollar WR that we knew we were going to keep. I mean, talk about a missed opportunity, I know hindsight is 20/20, but c'mon Rick! They could have given him all/most of that new money as a roster bonus in 2010, and have it all off the books right now. It's a shame our team didn't take advantage of that year like many others did. We will be paying for that mistake next offseason when we lose guys like Quin, McCain or Barwin.

My take in that thread was that AJ was this franchise's sole superstar and they will take care of him as a business decision and public relations / locker room positive boost.


Agreed, I just don't like the method they used. The Texans gave him some new money, 2 more years, and now we have caphits from AJ's deal through 2016, regardless of what happens to him or what team he's on.

'eh, like I said, I do not see WR and RB as being comparable positions. Paying a 28 year old power runner a new contract for $8 million a year is not a good business decision.


Yep, that's why the Jags paid a 25 year old RB 8 million a year, timing the deal to run out just as he hits 30, when he will be cheaper to retain. The Jags GM did the right thing, and not caving in to his demands is the right way to go IMO. My issue with the MJD thing is the way Kahn is handling it, I could never see Bob McNair saying a star player's holdout is not causing the team any stress. It's a crappy way to do business and it makes the whole organization look bad.

MJD's position with the Jaguars today is simply not the same as AJ's relevance with the Texans in 2010. And that's my point. If this was Calvin Johnson holding out with the Lions, I could see the comparison with AJ's situation.

Obviously, the Jaguars do not feel the same way about MJD right now as the Texans FO felt about AJ in 2010.

See, I think MJD is the heart of their offense and the figurehead of the team. He was drafted by the Jags and has been with the team for 7 years. In 2010, AJ and Mario were our two big stars, and everyone around the league respected AJ and saw him as the biggest star of the team. I think up until this holdout, MJD was thought of similarly. He's still the best known Jaguar on the team, and has been since Fred Taylor left.

Double Barrel
08-23-2012, 04:25 PM
I understand your perspective and from the big picture, players under contract holding out does come off as being a bit greedy.

If AJ had missed weeks of training camp, especially with 5 years left on his deal, I'd be heavily criticizing him, as well.

And while I certainly see MJD as being a centerpiece of their offense, I have to wonder if the franchise values MJD anywhere near the level that the Texans value AJ. Our owner, as classy as can be, would never stoop to the level of the Jags owner by using the press to undermine negotiations with a star player. I agree with you about Kahn. Dude is being a complete asshat. McNair did the opposite, indicating that he intended for AJ to be a Texan for life. I think McNair's word is solid, and that's probably the allusion to the agreement in principle that allowed AJ to avoid holding out because he knew his owner would eventually take care of him.

Good conversation, though, and I always appreciate the the level of respect that posters in this forum provide even when we don't see eye-to-eye on a subject.

drs23
08-23-2012, 09:07 PM
The jags owner is in the right here. MJD demanded a contract front loaded so he could get paid and got it. Now he has gotten to the leaner part, he no longer wants to play for it. MJD still has 2 YEARS on his contract. Here is the thing: MJD led the league in rushing and the jags still stunk. The Jags owner has wisely made this a public issue and has made MJD look small and petty. The Jags owner wants MJD to HONOR his contract while MJD thinks his 4 mill plus salary is too low. MJD has lost, for the most part, the support of the fans. In this case, its not the ownership low balling, its a player refusing to play for a contract with 2 years still on it.

If I were the ownership I would not trade him. I would tell him show up or sit out: its your choice.

Couldn't have said it better. MJD was cognizant when he took pen in hand and scooped the cash up front. The Jags took the risk that he would perform and not pull up lame. They paid upfront, he needs to uphold his end of the bargain. I'm all over the management's stance in this one and I don't see why it needs to be hush-hush. MJD hasn't been discreet so why should the Jag's management? F'k 'im. And fine the hell out of him day for day. When he comes back, let him ride the pine. Jennings and a few of the other backs seem to be doing OK. Perfect time for new management to make an example.

Norg
08-24-2012, 06:36 AM
I'd get two firsts for him or pay the man. That's a huge part of their team, they're an average qb away from the playoffs. If Gabbert can make any sort of improvement from last year, with MJD in the backfield they'll still be dangerous. It's not like we were blowing them out last year.


umm last year we swept da jags and then 2nd game we beat them without Schaub and AJ and mario at the time LOL .......

Playoffs
09-02-2012, 10:04 AM
Reporting today.

cuppacoffee
09-02-2012, 12:02 PM
Reporting today.

Think the Jags will fine him according to the CBA?

The players expect the owners to live up to the CBA agreements, shouldn't they hold the players to the same expectation.

The owners aren't the only ones who should respect contracts.

Only way to keep this from happening every year by disgruntled players.


:coffee:

houstonspartan
09-02-2012, 04:24 PM
I can smell a "He wants out" move from 3 miles away.

MJD didn't care about money; he simply realized that the team was going nowhere, and he wanted to play for a contender. So, he staged this ridiculous holdout. When he complained after the owners comments - saying that he wanted to play for an owner who respected him - that solidified it for me.

Instead of simply saying, "I want to go to a better team" he passively-aggressively held out with the hope that they would trade him. The problem with being blunt and saying "Trade me" is that it comes off bad. He would look terrible to fans, and would ruin his rep.

It's like what happened with Dunta and the Texans. The Texans offered him a zillion dollars, and Dunta still said no, which pretty much told everyone that he didn't want to be here (despite publicly claiming that he did).

Good move on the Jags for this. They played it well.

gtexan02
09-02-2012, 04:26 PM
He did explicitly say "trade me" didnt he?

thunderkyss
09-02-2012, 07:11 PM
I can smell a "He wants out" move from 3 miles away.

MJD didn't care about money; he simply realized that the team was going nowhere, and he wanted to play for a contender. So, he staged this ridiculous holdout. When he complained after the owners comments - saying that he wanted to play for an owner who respected him - that solidified it for me.

Instead of simply saying, "I want to go to a better team" he passively-aggressively held out with the hope that they would trade him. The problem with being blunt and saying "Trade me" is that it comes off bad. He would look terrible to fans, and would ruin his rep.

It's like what happened with Dunta and the Texans. The Texans offered him a zillion dollars, and Dunta still said no, which pretty much told everyone that he didn't want to be here (despite publicly claiming that he did).

Good move on the Jags for this. They played it well.

First, very few veteran players enjoy training camp. Especially when they know they have little to look forward to.

Second, MJD knows his last contract may very well be the best he'll see going forward.

Third, MJD was the best running back in the league. We might talk about Arian Foster, Ray Rice, or Adrian Peterson, but MJD led the league in rushing on a team that couldn't do anything but run the ball.

If I were MJD I'd have tried to get another contract while the getting was good. I'd have tried to get out of J'ville while the getting was good. It didn't happen, he skipped training camp..... c'est la vie

cuppacoffee
09-02-2012, 07:40 PM
First, very few veteran players enjoy training camp. Especially when they know they have little to look forward to.

Second, MJD knows his last contract may very well be the best he'll see going forward.

Third, MJD was the best running back in the league. We might talk about Arian Foster, Ray Rice, or Adrian Peterson, but MJD led the league in rushing on a team that couldn't do anything but run the ball.

If I were MJD I'd have tried to get another contract while the getting was good. I'd have tried to get out of J'ville while the getting was good. It didn't happen, he skipped training camp..... c'est la vie


Didn't he sign a new contract in 2009? Still had two years to go.

Do you think for one minute that he would have sought a pay cut if he had not had a good year or that J-ville would have even asked him to take a pay cut if his production fell off..n'aura pas lieu

And Fine de son cul

:coffee:

thunderkyss
09-02-2012, 07:55 PM
Didn't he sign a new contract in 2009? Still had two years to go.

Do you think for one minute that he would have sought a pay cut if he had not had a good year or that J-ville would have even asked him to take a pay cut if his production fell off..n'aura pas lieu

And Fine de son cul

:coffee:


Yeah, if it fits Jacksonville's finances, they would cut MJD, regardless how many years he has left on his contract.

Bottom line, I think J'ville screwed the pooch here. MJD just had the best season of his career (maybe), the Jags aren't going to do anything this year. They should have capitalized on his perceived value & got a few draft picks for next years draft.

drs23
09-02-2012, 09:39 PM
Think the Jags will fine him according to the CBA?

The players expect the owners to live up to the CBA agreements, shouldn't they hold the players to the same expectation.

The owners aren't the only ones who should respect contracts.

Only way to keep this from happening every year by disgruntled players.


:coffee:

According to the report I heard on the radio (ESPN HOUSTON) MJD was fined 1.2 million.

That's a chunk of change whether you like where you work or not.

houstonspartan
09-03-2012, 12:17 AM
First, very few veteran players enjoy training camp. Especially when they know they have little to look forward to.

Second, MJD knows his last contract may very well be the best he'll see going forward.

Third, MJD was the best running back in the league. We might talk about Arian Foster, Ray Rice, or Adrian Peterson, but MJD led the league in rushing on a team that couldn't do anything but run the ball.

If I were MJD I'd have tried to get another contract while the getting was good. I'd have tried to get out of J'ville while the getting was good. It didn't happen, he skipped training camp..... c'est la vie

First, who cares if vets don't like training camp? Either they deal with it, or pay the fines. It's their choice; but they shouldn't act like victims (i.e. whining about the owner not respecting them).

Second, MJD didn't quite handle this well, did he? He got fined, AND he looks bad. So what, exactly, did he gain here?

Third, MJD's lucrative contract in 2009 was heavily front-loaded. He got PAID. It's not like he out-performed his contract. Arian didn't demand a negotiation in the middle of a lucrative contract; heck, he was only making like $500,000 at the end of his previous contract.

Norg
09-03-2012, 01:29 AM
if i was MJD i would want out of Jaxs 2 place is a death hole