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View Full Version : TJ Yates rookie PS games revisited


76Texan
08-20-2012, 10:18 AM
In order to compare the plays of two rookie QBs in their respective first PS, I'm pulling up some "underwhelming" plays by Yates just so we can compare them to Keenum's.

It is not intended to put down Yates because people here know that I like him when we first drafted him.

Yates played the 4th quarter against the Jets in his first game and went 6-12 for 97 yards (50% completion pct and 8.1 ypa)

The following were the underwhelming plays:

First series

1-10-HST 32 (14:26) T.Yates pass incomplete deep middle to D.Townsel.

First pass overthrown to Townsel on a post route.
There was no safety back there; Townsel had beaten his man good.
Townsel tried to stretch with one hand but can only manage to reach the ball with his fingertips.
...
This is what I'm talking about.
If both Posey and Iglesias had tried to stretch with one hand, they would at least have a fighting chance at making a catch.


Second series.

1-10-HST 10 (12:15) T.Yates sacked at HST 10 for 0 yards (G.McIntyre).

Yates was chased out of the pocket.
He could have thrown the ball away easily;
instead, he ran out of bound for a loss of one (it was credited as a sack).

3-9-HST 11 (11:09) T.Yates pass short middle to J.Maehl to HST 16 for 5 yards (E.Lankster).

On third down, Yates chose to go with a quick pass to Maehl that had no chance to convert the third down.


Third series.

1-10-HST 16 (6:01) T.Yates pass incomplete deep left to G.Graham.

Yates overthew Graham who was wide open on the left side line.
The ball was way high above in the air.
Even though Graham tried to stretch with one hand, he was never close to reach it.
This here is considered a REAL overthrown ball.

1-10-HST 42 (5:15) T.Yates pass incomplete short right to C.Ogbonnaya [M.Dixon].

Yates was pressured and threw the ball ten miles away from Ogbonnaya.
He could have made a less inacurate pass.
Chris O. had no chance at the ball.
(That is if I want to knitpick like you Rmartin, LOL)

3-10-HST 42 (5:00) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass incomplete short middle to G.Graham.

Graham was running a shallow crossing route; it's not that much different from Iglesias running the out route.
He stretched with one hand and can only reach the ball with his fingertips.
Again, if Iglesias had tried to stretch with one hand from the start, he has a shot at the ball.
Yates' pass is more off-target than Case.

76Texan
08-20-2012, 10:25 AM
Yates didn't play in the second game.
He completed his lone pass in the third game for 7 yards.

In week 4, against the Vikings' scrubs, Yates played the whole second half, going 6-13 for 77 yards (46.2 completion pct. and 5.9 ypa).

Here are the lows:

3-8-HST 47 (12:42) (Shotgun) T.Yates sacked at HST 42 for -5 yards (A.Awasom). FUMBLES (A.Awasom), RECOVERED by
MIN-D.Akinniyi at HST 42. D.Akinniyi to HST 42 for no gain (Team).

This gave the Vikings short field at the Texans 37 and they scored a TD.


....

2-18-HST 40 (8:37) T.Yates pass incomplete short middle to G.Graham.

Again, Graham stretched with one hand but couldn't reach the ball.
This is overthrowing.

....

2-6-HST 27 (4:48) T.Yates pass deep right intended for D.Townsel INTERCEPTED by B.Burton at MIN 46. B.Burton to MIN
41 for -5 yards (G.Graham).

Yates forced the ball into double coverage.

76Texan
08-20-2012, 10:27 AM
One can certainly notice the difference in accuracy.

But most importantly, like I had said, so far Keenum has played mistake-free football, making the correct reads on all of his throws.

The same cannot be said about Yates.

EllisUnit
08-20-2012, 10:27 AM
Don't see a point in comparison. TJ led us to our first play off win and AJs first beautifully thrown TD reception when it mattered. So I'm not worried about a few over throws in PS.

76Texan
08-20-2012, 10:36 AM
Don't see a point in comparison. TJ led us to our first play off win and AJs first beautifully thrown TD reception when it mattered. So I'm not worried about a few over throws in PS.

We're only evaluating rookie QB plays in pre-season, that's all.

Playoffs
08-20-2012, 10:49 AM
I was impressed with Scott Tolzien. Know nothing about what's between his ears.

Interesting Keenum claims 6'1, but Kubes at 6'0 says he is taller.

utahmark
08-20-2012, 10:59 AM
I think Keenum should be more worried about out playing Beck this preseason. He has a shot at that.

Yates needs to show some improvement this year. He looks like a career backup right now.

TheEastwood
08-20-2012, 11:11 AM
I was impressed with Scott Tolzien. Know nothing about what's between his ears.

Interesting Keenum claims 6'1, but Kubes at 6'0 says he is taller.

There's no way Case is 6'1. I'm 5'11" and was looking Keenum dead in the eye when I saw him at training camp.

2012Champs
08-20-2012, 11:11 AM
Don't see a point in comparison. TJ led us to our first play off win and AJs first beautifully thrown TD reception when it mattered. So I'm not worried about a few over throws in PS.



Its not like we rode TJ into the playoffs and he was the reason we were there. TJ rode our D into the post season while lowering our scoring avg by 10 points or so. Lets not go overboard in the credit for TJ and our first playoff win. TJ is also the only Texan to throw 3 ints in a playoff game

HJam72
08-20-2012, 11:15 AM
Its not like we rode TJ into the playoffs and he was the reason we were there. TJ rode our D into the post season while lowering our scoring avg by 10 points or so. Lets not go overboard in the credit for TJ and our first playoff win. TJ is also the only Texan to throw 3 ints in a playoff game

I have to second ALL of this...

gtexan02
08-20-2012, 11:17 AM
Keenum has attempted 6 passes in the preseason. Is that really enough for you to say he has played mistake free football?

HJam72
08-20-2012, 11:19 AM
Keenum has attempted 6 passes in the preseason. Is that really enough for you to say he has played mistake free football?

Yes. :)

Technically, a single completed pass and 1 for 1 would be mistake-free football.

Hookem Horns
08-20-2012, 11:21 AM
He looks like a career backup right now.

To be honest that is what he is. He looked that way last season also. My hope is that he can turn out to be a Cody Carlson type backup. Solid off of the bench and in stretches of a few games if needed.

speedfreek
08-20-2012, 12:35 PM
Keenum was measured at 6' and 5/8" at the combine where they are incredibly careful to get things right. So we can stop with the wild guesses at height.

TJ

Speedy
08-20-2012, 12:48 PM
Don't see a point in comparison. TJ led us to our first play off win and AJs first beautifully thrown TD reception when it mattered. So I'm not worried about a few over throws in PS.

And Yates didn't lead us to a win in Baltimore, and instead threw 3 picks, with at least 2 more that should have been.

I think Keenum should be more worried about out playing Beck this preseason. He has a shot at that.

Yates needs to show some improvement this year. He looks like a career backup right now.

Exactly. Wasn't impressed with Yates last season, but gave him the benefit of doubt being a 3rd string rookie and all. And what little I've seen thus far in pre-season, I still don't see much there that gives me confidence that this team is going places should #8 go down again. Not saying I've seen it out of Case either, just if Schaub goes down, right now, I do not like the prospects we have backing him up.

EllisUnit
08-20-2012, 01:39 PM
Its not like we rode TJ into the playoffs and he was the reason we were there. TJ rode our D into the post season while lowering our scoring avg by 10 points or so. Lets not go overboard in the credit for TJ and our first playoff win. TJ is also the only Texan to throw 3 ints in a playoff game

Isn't TJ the only Texans QB to ever even throw a pass in the play-offs. Oh and a TD in the play offs. I'm not saying he is the next brady or even or starter, but Case is going against mainly 3's and give TJ a little credit he did help us go to baltimore. Sure he had some bad throws against the ravens D, but it is the notorius ravens

2012Champs
08-20-2012, 02:34 PM
Isn't TJ the only Texans QB to ever even throw a pass in the play-offs. Oh and a TD in the play offs. I'm not saying he is the next brady or even or starter, but Case is going against mainly 3's and give TJ a little credit he did help us go to baltimore. Sure he had some bad throws against the ravens D, but it is the notorius ravens



I couldnt care less about Case. TJ isnt anything special that got us to our playoff run last year so lets not use it as a base to make him better than other players. Any QB stat re the texans and the playoffs are all on TJ so its all the same. Yates could have easily had 5-6 ints in that ravens games. Thanks for getting us to balt

Thorn
08-20-2012, 05:14 PM
Just for grins, I found this and thought I'd pass along the link. This guy is rating the backup QBs.

http://www.athlonsports.com/nfl/ranking-nfls-best-back-quarterbacks

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2012, 05:45 PM
Just for grins, I found this and thought I'd pass along the link. This guy is rating the backup QBs.

http://www.athlonsports.com/nfl/ranking-nfls-best-back-quarterbacks

Interesting.

I'd put Chase Daniel at the top of that list. And a couple more guys over TJ.

76Texan
08-21-2012, 12:13 PM
Keenum has attempted 6 passes in the preseason. Is that really enough for you to say he has played mistake free football?

Remember I said "so far" (which means after two PS games)

Mistakes by a QB comprise of a lot of things, not just in passing the ball.

Did he get the call to his group and get them to line up properly?

Did he handle pressure the right way?
How was his demeanor in the pocket?
Did he have happy feet? Did he chuck and duck? etc.
Was he aware of where the pass rushers were (This helps not to fumble the ball when sacked; it minimizes or eliminates any chance of a batted ball,)

How was his footwork off the snap?
Did he handle the snap and performed the hand-off to the RB correctly and consistently (this is quite important for a team running play action).
- By doing this right consistently, Keenum had helped made two bootlegs work just as any one can hope for on such a play (with a nice faked hand-off).

Basically, he's on schedule as far as where his progress should be in his learning curve.

In fact, IMHO, I think he's ahead of the curve,
And I don't even need to use the excuse that he played mainly in a spread offense in college (cough, cough, Gabbert!).

EVOLVIST
08-21-2012, 01:53 PM
First time caller, long time listener...

One of the reasons all of this talk is valid is because one of these days Kubes plans, hopes and wishes that he'll get a good young QB on the cheap and mold him into an elite NFL QB.

It can happen.

Is it Yates or Keenum? I don't know. In all probability, no. As a possibility, yes.

Having said that, I would love to see Kubes get his hands on Nick Foles. For a rookie QB coming into the NFL? Geez, he didn't look this good at Michigan State! He's already better than Gabbert. Ha!

Thorn
08-21-2012, 02:58 PM
Interesting.

I'd put Chase Daniel at the top of that list. And a couple more guys over TJ.

If TJ isn't in anyones "top ten" list of QB backups (in any position) then that list is wrong. Maybe he isn't the best, which can certainly be argued, but he is pretty darn good as a backup. I'm glad we have him.

CloakNNNdagger
08-21-2012, 09:00 PM
Kubiak today:

(on if he is happy with how QB T.J. Yates has progressed in the last year) “Yeah, I think he’s a better player this year than last. I really liked his first outing against Carolina. The other night, I thought he could’ve played better. I’ve told him that. He needs to trust his people up front a little more than he did the other night, but T.J., this is his first camp. I can just watch him and see him handling himself. To me, he’s a better player right now than he was last year. Some of the mistakes he made last year, and he played through them and found a way to make plays, but there’s not as many this year.”
link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Tuesday-practice/8be0a222-27c2-497e-b5ef-75ff76900e3d)

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2012, 09:59 PM
Kubiak today:


link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Tuesday-practice/8be0a222-27c2-497e-b5ef-75ff76900e3d)

Trust his guys up front a little more? They almost got him killed on a couple of plays!

CloakNNNdagger
08-21-2012, 10:25 PM
Trust his guys up front a little more? They almost got him killed on a couple of plays!

TJ: Doc, I keep seeing these big guys coming to hurt me.

http://www.best-of-web.com/_images_300/Man_Laying_on_a_Couch_Talking_to_His_Psychiatrist_ 101015-002945-351042.jpg

Doc: Simple paranoia, young man. You must Learn to trust........

michaelm
08-21-2012, 11:17 PM
Just for grins, I found this and thought I'd pass along the link. This guy is rating the backup QBs.

http://www.athlonsports.com/nfl/ranking-nfls-best-back-quarterbacks

Looks like nobody noticed that New England has two QBs on the list of 32 backup QBs.


NY Giants backup QB (2nd on depth chart), David Carr - Not Listed.

LOL

ObsiWan
08-22-2012, 04:22 AM
Looks like nobody noticed that New England has two QBs on the list of 32 backup QBs.


NY Giants backup QB (2nd on depth chart), David Carr - Not Listed.

LOL

Wait, what!! Charlie Batch doesn't make the list??
Vince Young still in the top ten!?

Credibility shot.

silvrhand
08-22-2012, 06:40 AM
Basically, he's on schedule as far as where his progress should be in his learning curve.

In fact, IMHO, I think he's ahead of the curve,
And I don't even need to use the excuse that he played mainly in a spread offense in college (cough, cough, Gabbert!).

Go back and look at his first pass in game against the 49'ers I was sitting in the endzone for that one, he can't throw many more like that or else it's going to be pick 6 city.. He got lucky on that one for sure but it stayed in the air a LOONNGGG time..

GP
08-22-2012, 07:48 AM
I keep thinking...Matt is important, let's rest Matt.

We've seen that Matt is (seems to be) OK.

So why don't we rest Matt and play TJ with the full 1st string offense???

This thing of Kubiak putting TJ with the 2nd and 3rd stringers really frustrates me. Here Kubiak has a great chance to put TJ with guys who won't get him killed on each pass play, to put TJ with RBs and WRs who can do things with the ball...and nope, let's put him with the freaking on-the-bubble squad.

We already know Matt. TJ? He needs those game time reps in preseason to work with the 1st stringers more, in a real game situation.

/rant.

beerlover
08-22-2012, 08:58 AM
Yates development is on track to become a legit starter in this league, already better than Beck, so he should be insurance for Schaub & give Keenum the same opportunity Yates had last season. I would look to trade Beck for ILB help or veteran WR.

Yates is much quicker getting set in the pocket than Schaub. His release is also quicker than Schaub. This impacts his timing with WR's/TE's. Often ball is right in a window split second before they turn or can elevate to make a routine catch while if you noticed Schaub takes more time, often ball is underthrown but waffling with less velocity allowing the receiver to make adjustment hence more catch-able. Once Yates achieves timing he will be hard to stop.

Keenum, from small sample size, doesn't have the arm but moves well to set up in the pocket & make quick decisions. He struggles in pocket with size, velocity & ability to read coverages, but its a new world for him. He looks more effective out of the pocket which should help him run play action. All three are different & bring own uniqueness to the Texans.

76Texan
08-22-2012, 12:02 PM
Go back and look at his first pass in game against the 49'ers I was sitting in the endzone for that one, he can't throw many more like that or else it's going to be pick 6 city.. He got lucky on that one for sure but it stayed in the air a LOONNGGG time..

I hate it when typing a semi-long reply and it got lost, LOL!

At any rate, that ball was thrown on a line; it didn't stay up there for a long time. If anything, Keenum could use a little more touch to get that ball up a little higher.

The ball went past the LB's hands and this is a game of inches.
I wouldn't worry too much about it.
With time, the adjustment will come.

The good things we see on this play was that the consistent look on the hand-off helped sold that LB (the WILL) to buy Keenum the time on the bootleg. It also fooled the MO and left our TE Logan Brock all alone to make the play work.

The fact that the WILL recovered well (he normally would go after the QB) is a good play on his part.

Look at Schaub missing Walter in the end zone.
Look at Schaub's first pass where the LB almost intercepted the ball.
This is a game of inches; expect those things to happen - except that Schaub missed Walter more than a couple of inches :)

And how about the little chewing Schaub got from Kubiak after the TD to Jean?
I agree with Lucky, on that play, we think that Schaub should have thrown the ball just a tiny bit sooner to give Jean a hair more time to break off tackles (in football jargon, I learned that coaches called this "getting the ball out on time".)
I guess Kubiak is very picky, LOL!

silvrhand
08-22-2012, 02:57 PM
I hate it when typing a semi-long reply and it got lost, LOL!

At any rate, that ball was thrown on a line; it didn't stay up there for a long time. If anything, Keenum could use a little more touch to get that ball up a little higher.

The ball went past the LB's hands and this is a game of inches.
I wouldn't worry too much about it.
With time, the adjustment will come.

The good things we see on this play was that the consistent look on the hand-off helped sold that LB (the WILL) to buy Keenum the time on the bootleg. It also fooled the MO and left our TE Logan Brock all alone to make the play work.

The fact that the WILL recovered well (he normally would go after the QB) is a good play on his part.

Look at Schaub missing Walter in the end zone.
Look at Schaub's first pass where the LB almost intercepted the ball.
This is a game of inches; expect those things to happen - except that Schaub missed Walter more than a couple of inches :)

And how about the little chewing Schaub got from Kubiak after the TD to Jean?
I agree with Lucky, on that play, we think that Schaub should have thrown the ball just a tiny bit sooner to give Jean a hair more time to break off tackles (in football jargon, I learned that coaches called this "getting the ball out on time".)
I guess Kubiak is very picky, LOL!

LOL don't tell me you weren't holding your breath on that pass, it was enough for me to notice and even my wife to go.. oh god no..

silvrhand
08-22-2012, 02:59 PM
Look at Schaub missing Walter in the end zone.
Look at Schaub's first pass where the LB almost intercepted the ball.
This is a game of inches; expect those things to happen - except that Schaub missed Walter more than a couple of inches :)

And how about the little chewing Schaub got from Kubiak after the TD to Jean?
I agree with Lucky, on that play, we think that Schaub should have thrown the ball just a tiny bit sooner to give Jean a hair more time to break off tackles (in football jargon, I learned that coaches called this "getting the ball out on time".)
I guess Kubiak is very picky, LOL!

I'm always on the fence with Schaub, while putting up good numbers his lack of arm strength and still late on reads makes me want to slam my face in the car door again and again.. He's so close to elite but not quite..

76Texan
08-23-2012, 12:01 AM
LOL don't tell me you weren't holding your breath on that pass, it was enough for me to notice and even my wife to go.. oh god no..

Maybe I should have, but in honesty, I wasn't.

I still remember getting ready to yell at Warren Moon (and Schaub - before last year), but no, not on that throw by Keenum.

I didn't think the LB would get there.

Both the Niners and Texans broadcasting crews thought it was a nice pass, even though the Niners' guy did say that it was close.

76Texan
08-23-2012, 12:47 AM
And BTW, that LB is not a real scrub.
He's been boucing around for quite a while now (4 years.)

Words from different corners have him making the Niners squad this year.

One place can be found here:

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/san_francisco_49ers_eric_bakhtiaris_persistence_pa ying_off/11495554