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steelbtexan
08-27-2012, 03:40 PM
As a draft guy, I must note that I don't "believe" in all the combine or pro day numbers (especially the pro days).

The tracks are not always the same.
The wind factor, the gears, etc.

The main idea is that you have to look at how fast the guy run a certain route on the actual playing field.

Walter is neither fast nor slow.
But he's fast enough to burn a DB (who may have some cushion on him) due to his good route running.

That two-man route example I had in screen shots was a good example.
I don't know if it's still there at photobucket; I haven't post anything there for a long time.

Having another KJ moment?

thunderkyss
08-27-2012, 03:48 PM
OK, so you think 76Texan is not telling the truth. Fair enough. I want to see someone like you, who holds that belief, post some evidence from the All-22. That's pretty much what I've been saying for a while now.




But 76Texans hasn't posted any "proof" other than saying what he "saw" on the All 22.

I'm not calling 76 a liar, I respect his opinions & the work he puts in to back them up.

But this time it's just not adding up. Our most sure handed WR gets open all the time, but he's so far down on the progression that he rarely gets thrown to.... Jacoby gets targeted more when Andre is out....

I'm just finding it all hard to believe.

Corrosion
08-27-2012, 04:02 PM
Maybe Dutch can do it.

Walter was in the right slot and Martin was wide right.

Martin ran a quick slant in.

Walter ran a quick out and pick-off the LCB.
This springs KMart free to make the catch.

Why not the role reversal?
You will have to ask Kubiak.

Personally, I'm thinking, anybody - even a rookie - can run a quick slant and catch the easy pass when he's wide open.

It takes an experience WR to run the pick as not to be called Offensive PI.


Thats an accurate description of the play .... Because of the route Walter ran , busting the coverage , the DB's looked like keystone cops (http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/keystone-cops.jpg), Martin had a gimmie TD.

Seems to me we can point to a couple situations like this involving Walter every game.

76Texan
08-27-2012, 04:06 PM
I was watching the Tennesse game in week 7.


Here are some of the observations.

RUSHING ATT YDS AVG LG TD
A.Foster 25 115 4.6 17 2
B.Tate 15 104 6.9 24 0
Total 47 222 4.7 24 2

PASSING ATT CMP YDS SK/YD TD LG IN RT
M.Schaub 23 18 296 0/0 2 78 0 147.7

PASS RECEIVING TAR REC YDS AVG LG TD
A.Foster 5 5 119 23.8 78 1
O.Daniels 5 4 71 17.8 34 0
K.Walter 4 3 35 11.7 20
J.Dreessen 2 2 31 15.5 21 1
J.Jones 4 2 27 13.5 20 0
D.Mason 1 1 7 7.0 7 0
B.Johnson 1 1 6 6.0 6 0

Zero sack, 2 QB Hurries, No PD agaisnt Schaub

….
First Quarter

1-10-HST 20 (15:00) A.Foster right tackle to HST 21 for 1 yard (C.Finnegan).
12 personnel.
Lined up outside OD
Down block on his man.

2-9-HST 21 (14:22) A.Foster right guard to HST 28 for 7 yards (S.Smith; J.McCourty).
21 personnel
Lined up in left slot – block downfield

3-2-HST 28 (13:43) A.Foster left tackle to HST 27 for -1 yards (S.Smith).
NILU = Not in line-up

4-3-HST 27 (13:17) (Punt formation) B.Hartmann punts 57 yards to TEN 16, Center-J.Weeks. M.Mariani pushed ob at TEN 34 for 18 yards (J.Dreessen).

….
Houston Texans at 10:42

1-10-HST 20 (10:42) A.Foster left end to HST 36 for 16 yards (M.Griffin). R1
21 personnel
Lined up on as weakside TE
Down block on WDE to allow LT Brown to pull.

1-10-HST 36 (10:09) M.Schaub pass incomplete deep right to K.Walter.
21 personnel
Lined up wide right
Double move, had half a step on LCB.
Pass was out of bound.
May or may not be able to pull in the catch (if Schaub had thrown a good pass);
CB may or may not be able to make a play.
Not quite open; but a good pass and a great catch can make thing happen here.

2-10-HST 36 (10:02) M.Schaub pass incomplete deep right to J.Jones [J.Jones]
12 personnel
Lined up outside left.
Run deep out route (off side – not in play).
Was open, but Schaub had intended to roll to the other side from the start.

3-10-HST 36 (9:55) (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass incomplete deep left to J.Jones.
11 personnel.
Lined up wide right.
Ran a deep in;
Great separation; wide open.
Too bad, Schaub went to JJ all the way.
He was open, too (not as much as Walter) but quite open.
Pass was high (slight pressure).

(9:49) (Punt formation) B.Hartmann punts

76Texan
08-27-2012, 04:10 PM
Houston Texans at 8:43

1-10-HST 8 (8:43) A.Foster right tackle to HST 12 for 4 yards (J.Babineaux).
21 Personnel
Right slot.
Need to do a better job blocking his man downfield.

2-6-HST 12 (8:07) M.Schaub pass short left to J.Jones ran ob at HST 19 for 7 yards. P2
21 P (P=personnel)
Left slot
Ran a Sluggo, took away the single deep safety (double coverage).

Schaub went with JJ on the side line (same side); RCB gave too much cushion to JJ.


1-10-HST 19 (7:44) M.Schaub pass short middle to A.Foster to HST 25 for 6 yards (W.Witherspoon).
NILU

2-4-HST 25 (7:05) J.Jones left end pushed ob at HST 21 for -4 yards (C.Finnegan).
NILU


3-8-HST 21 (6:29) (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass short left to A.Foster to HST 47 for 26 yards (B.Ruud). P3
20 P
Right slot
Slow developing comebacker. Looks like he was open late (not his fault).
Schaub went to Foster on the open check down.

1-10-HST 47 (5:47) B.Tate left end pushed ob at TEN 42 for 11 yards (M.Griffin). R4
PENALTY on TEN-W.Witherspoon, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at TEN 42. X5
21 P
Slot right – block downfield on safety

1-10-TEN 27 (5:25) B.Tate left tackle to TEN 24 for 3 yards (D.Ball).
Cut block on off side DE


2-7-TEN 24 (4:43) A.Foster right end to TEN 19 for 5 yards (B.Ruud).
12 P
Good downblock

3-2-TEN 19 (4:00) A.Foster up the middle to TEN 16 for 3 yards (B.Ruud). R6
NILU


1-10-TEN 16 (3:24) B.Tate right end to TEN 17 for -1 yards (J.Casey).
nilu

2-11-TEN 17 (2:40) M.Schaub pass short right to A.Foster to TEN 12 for 5 yards (J.McCourty; C.Finnegan).
PENALTY on HST-D.Brown, Illegal Use of Hands, 10 yards, enforced at TEN 17 - No Play.
nilu

2-21-TEN 27 (2:16) (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass incomplete short left to O.Daniels [W.Witherspoon].
nilu

3-21-TEN 27 (2:11) (Shotgun) A.Foster up the middle to TEN 14 for 13 yards (M.Griffin).
Block downfield

4-8-TEN 14 (1:29) (Field Goal formation) N.Rackers 32 yard field goal is GOOD,

76Texan
08-27-2012, 04:12 PM
Second Quarter

Houston Texans at 10:53

1-10-HST 13 (10:53) M.Schaub pass deep left to O.Daniels pushed ob at HST 47 for 34 yards (J.Babineaux). P7
21 personnel
Cut block WDE to allow Schaub to roll out and complete the pass.
Nice block.

1-10-HST 47 (10:23) A.Foster left guard to TEN 46 for 7 yards (J.Babineaux).
Block DF (Downfield)

2-3-TEN 46 (9:47) A.Foster up the middle to TEN 36 for 10 yards (M.Griffin). R8
Block DF

1-10-TEN 36 (9:09) B.Tate right tackle to TEN 33 for 3 yards (B.Ruud).
nilu

2-7-TEN 33 (8:33) M.Schaub pass short middle to O.Daniels to TEN 23 for 10 yards (W.Witherspoon). P9
PENALTY on TEN-A.Ayers, Unnecessary Roughness, 11 yards, enforced at TEN 23. X10
nilu

1-10-TEN 12 (8:07) A.Foster right end to TEN 10 for 2 yards (J.McCourty).
Timeout #1 by HST at 07:29.
Down block

2-8-TEN 10 (7:29) M.Schaub pass short left to J.Dreessen for 10 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
12 P
Ran Clear out route to the deep left end zone.
Dreessen was left alone.

eriadoc
08-27-2012, 04:14 PM
But 76Texans hasn't posted any "proof" other than saying what he "saw" on the All 22.

I never used the word proof. Whether I think, like Rey, that 76Texan has no clue what he's looking at or whether I think he's the best film analyst on the board, at least he's putting something out there with a little backing. No one else has.

Dutchrudder
08-27-2012, 04:14 PM
You guys do know that NFL.com has highlights of every game, especially touchdown plays, right? Here's a link to the Texans/Saints highlights, I believe you can see the play you're talking about around the 20 second mark:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000054961/Texans-vs-Saints-highlights

I'll post something awesome in the graphics and tech section in the near future this week. Just wait... :)

Edit: nevermind, here's the play by itself:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-preseason/0ap2000000054920/Schaub-to-Martin-for-TD

76Texan
08-27-2012, 04:19 PM
That's all I have for now.

Walter was clearly open 3 times without the ball going to him.

The Pencil Neck
08-27-2012, 04:19 PM
You guys do know that NFL.com has highlights of every game, especially touchdown plays, right? Here's a link to the Texans/Saints highlights, I believe you can see the play you're talking about around the 20 second mark:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000054961/Texans-vs-Saints-highlights

I'll post something awesome in the graphics and tech section in the near future this week. Just wait... :)

Edit: nevermind, here's the play by itself:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-preseason/0ap2000000054920/Schaub-to-Martin-for-TD

lol.

THAT'S why KW is the #2. He's able to pick and not get called for it. He pretty much blew the defender right off KMart's back.

76Texan
08-27-2012, 04:21 PM
You guys do know that NFL.com has highlights of every game, especially touchdown plays, right? Here's a link to the Texans/Saints highlights, I believe you can see the play you're talking about around the 20 second mark:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000054961/Texans-vs-Saints-highlights

I'll post something awesome in the graphics and tech section in the near future this week. Just wait... :)

Edit: nevermind, here's the play by itself:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-preseason/0ap2000000054920/Schaub-to-Martin-for-TD
Sometimes I watch those replays, but since I have my own copy, sometimes I forgot all about those highlights.

Thanks for reminding me.

76Texan
08-27-2012, 04:22 PM
lol.

THAT'S why KW is the #2. He's able to pick and not get called for it. He pretty much blew the defender right off KMart's back.

Exactly!

amazing80
08-27-2012, 04:23 PM
You guys do know that NFL.com has highlights of every game, especially touchdown plays, right? Here's a link to the Texans/Saints highlights, I believe you can see the play you're talking about around the 20 second mark:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000054961/Texans-vs-Saints-highlights

I'll post something awesome in the graphics and tech section in the near future this week. Just wait... :)

Edit: nevermind, here's the play by itself:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-preseason/0ap2000000054920/Schaub-to-Martin-for-TD

Based on this video, BOTH KW and OD created "picks" by slanting towards the right with Martin slanting left underneath them. This created a wide open void in the middle of the field.

KW was not the unsung hero here, any one could have done that specific play. Fact is Walter is diminishing in ability

Dutchrudder
08-27-2012, 04:25 PM
lol.

THAT'S why KW is the #2. He's able to pick and not get called for it. He pretty much blew the defender right off KMart's back.

Yeah, I was concerned he was going to get a Offensive PI on that play because he reached out towards the CB that was on Martin, but he didn't. I can recall a couple times I have seen KW get tagged with an OPI, one memorably against the Jags in the end zone on a TD play. I believe it was 2010. Anyways, that sort of skill certainly has its place on our team, but I kind of doubt it's worth 2 million a year. I mean, is it really that hard to teach a young WR how to run three steps and button hook while pretending to be expecting a pass?

(Yeah, that's right, I didn't say curl route, wanna fight about it?)

Texn4life
08-27-2012, 04:26 PM
Whats funny is Kubiak said in his presser yesterday that he just calls the plays. He's not thinking about who's going to be getting the ball. I call BS on that one. There are certain play designs where he knows exactly who he wants to get the ball.

76Texan
08-27-2012, 04:32 PM
Based on this video, BOTH KW and OD created "picks" by slanting towards the right with Martin slanting left underneath them. This created a wide open void in the middle of the field.

KW was not the unsung hero here, any one could have done that specific play. Fact is Walter is diminishing in ability

Diminishing in what kind of ability?

I just posted some recaps of his route running in the week 7 Tenn game last year.

In less than one and a half quarter, he was open 3 times and Schaub didn't throw the ball to him.

How can a receiver has a catch if the ball wasn't thrown to him?

There was another play where Schaub threw the ball wide out of bound, not giving Walter the opportunity to catch it.

amazing80
08-27-2012, 04:37 PM
Diminishing in what kind of ability?

I just posted some recaps of his route running in the week 7 Tenn game last year.

In less than one and a half quarter, he was open 3 times and Schaub didn't throw the ball to him.

How can a receiver has a catch if the ball wasn't thrown to him?

There was another play where Schaub threw the ball wide out of bound, not giving Walter the opportunity to catch it.

this is a weak attempt to try and justify your man crush on KW. Look, I like him as a person and he has a place on this team, as a 3rd or 4th wide out, give guys with big play ability the opportunity to help this team. Gary has a reputation for riding veterans too long (Chris Brown, Ahman Green, Bryant Johnson etc.). Kw is just his latest attempt.

You can go through and find "film" on every player and show examples of highlights, but capitalizing and helping the team is entirely different.

Texn4life
08-27-2012, 04:38 PM
Diminishing in what kind of ability?

I just posted some recaps of his route running in the week 7 Tenn game last year.

In less than one and a half quarter, he was open 3 times and Schaub didn't throw the ball to him.

How can a receiver has a catch if the ball wasn't thrown to him?

There was another play where Schaub threw the ball wide out of bound, not giving Walter the opportunity to catch it.

I think its time to bust out the Schaub/Walter conspiracy theories.

76Texan
08-27-2012, 04:54 PM
this is a weak attempt to try and justify your man crush on KW. Look, I like him as a person and he has a place on this team, as a 3rd or 4th wide out, give guys with big play ability the opportunity to help this team. Gary has a reputation for riding veterans too long (Chris Brown, Ahman Green, Bryant Johnson etc.). Kw is just his latest attempt.

You can go through and find "film" on every player and show examples of highlights, but capitalizing and helping the team is entirely different.

Capitalizing on what?

Is he supposed to be able to fly so he can zoom to the other side of the field to catch a ball that wasn't thrown to him?

He ranked number 3 in the NFL the last 3 seasons for lowest number of drops.

I would say he CAPITALIZED on plenty of his chances,

Corrosion
08-27-2012, 05:02 PM
lol.

THAT'S why KW is the #2. He's able to pick and not get called for it. He pretty much blew the defender right off KMart's back.

That route combination and its execution made that score easy ..... I dont think you would ask a rookie to get away with that.

Vinny
08-27-2012, 05:06 PM
That route combination and its execution made that score easy ..... I dont think you would ask a rookie to get away with that.When that play went down I immediately thought that good OC's would grow to love the noob ref's who may not pick up on this as much as the seasoned guys.

Texn4life
08-27-2012, 05:17 PM
That route combination and its execution made that score easy ..... I dont think you would ask a rookie to get away with that.

I could be wrong, but I'm almost cetain the Titans used Wright to do that earlier in the preseason on a TD pass from Locker to Washington against Arizona. Different route combos, but I think Wright was the one to pick off the defender to set Washington free.

Edit: I went back and looked and it was Jared Cook that set the pick. But I do agree with Rey. I think we're overrating the skill somewhat to simply get in the way of a defender to set someone free. Look, I understand that Walter has value to the team. In all of my posts even criticizing his skill set, I've never said otherwise. You're probably overrating his skills somewhat. Somewhere in the middle of his critics and his hype men is probably where Kevin's true value and skill set lies.

Rey
08-27-2012, 05:22 PM
I could be wrong, but I'm almost cetain the Titans used Wright to do that earlier in the preseason on a TD pass from Locker to Washington against Arizona. Different route combos, but I think Wright was the one to pick off the defender to set Washington free.


That's because people are over stating the skill level that it takes to do something like that.

Besides that I can remember a few times KW has been penalized for those types of plays and truthfully he probably should have been flagged there as Vinny alluded to...

76Texan
08-27-2012, 05:35 PM
That's because people are over stating the skill level that it takes to do something like that.

Besides that I can remember a few times KW has been penalized for those types of plays and truthfully he probably should have been flagged there as Vinny alluded to...

Should we trust your memory? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Nah, I don't believe the ref can call that one.

Everybody has right of way.

Walter's defender actually blocked him into KMart's defender.


And it certainly looks to me that Kubiak didn't think his blocking skill is overrated because he's keeping on using Walter as such.

76Texan
08-27-2012, 05:40 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and finish the first half of the Titans game for those who are interested.

Yup, surely Walter can get open.

Houston Texans at 5:41

1-10-HST 6 (5:41) A.Foster right guard to HST 7 for 1 yard (K.Klug).

Block DF

2-9-HST 7 (5:07) M.Schaub pass short right to K.Walter to HST 15 for 8 yards (J.McCourty).
Quick slant from wide out.
Had to lay out to catch the ball as Schaub led him pretty far.
Walter did not have a chance to run after the catch as he was on the ground after stretching to catch that ball.
He got a ton of separation.

3-1-HST 15 (4:29) M.Schaub pass short left to D.Mason to HST 22 for 7 yards (C.Finnegan). P12
Penalty on TEN-C.Finnegan, Defensive Holding, declined.
Ran a fly route down the left side line; had a step on CB (who was in trail position).
Had plenty of room on the side line for Schaub to throw the ball to.
Schaub only needs one yard for the first down so he went the sure thing underneath.


1-10-HST 22 (4:08) M.Schaub pass short left to A.Foster for 78 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
NILU

76Texan
08-27-2012, 05:43 PM
Houston Texans at 1:52

1-10-TEN 48 (1:52) M.Schaub pass short right to O.Daniels to TEN 30 for 18 yards (J.Babineaux; J.McCourty). P14
11P
Lined up wide right and run a Hi-Lo concept with the TE OD
Titans were in a 52 zone.
LCB redirected Walter to the outside;
He would run downfield to take away the safety.
By occupying the flat defender and holding off the safety, Walter provided OD with plenty of room in the right flat on his quick out route.
Easy pass and catch.

1-10-TEN 30 (1:32) A.Foster up the middle to TEN 27 for 3 yards (K.Klug).
Run a similar route, basically clearing out as much room for the RB near the LOS while keeping the safety back


2-7-TEN 27 (1:13) M.Schaub pass short right to K.Walter to TEN 20 for 7 yards (J.Babineaux). P15
Another Hi-Lo concept in 11 Personnel.
This time OD ran straight deep for Walter to run the quick 5-yd in route and work for a couple extra yards, making the first down in the process.

Timeout #2 by HST at 01:05.
1-10-TEN 20 (1:05) M.Schaub pass short right to A.Foster to TEN 15 for 5 yards (J.McCourty).
11 P
All receivers ran clearing route for Foster to catch a quick pass in the flat to gain some yards.
Here Foster should have gone out of bound to kill the clock.

2-5-TEN 15 (:42) M.Schaub pass incomplete short left to M.Schaub.
Schaub was pressured, ran out of the pocket and threw the ball away.
Both OD and Walter was open in the short hole and curl, but Schaub didn’t quite have the time to setp up as D. Brown got beat pretty quickly.
Walter smartly ran the quick slant in front of the referee, using him to shield off the defender. He was wide open.

3-5-TEN 15 (:34) M.Schaub pass short right to A.Foster to TEN 11 for 4 yards (J.McCourty).
All receivers ran clearing route for Foster to catch a quick pass in the flat to gain some yards.

Timeout #3 by HST at 00:04.
4-1-TEN 11 (:04) (Field Goal formation) N.Rackers 29 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Weeks, Holder-B.Hartmann.

Texecutioner
08-27-2012, 05:45 PM
Capitalizing on what?

Is he supposed to be able to fly so he can zoom to the other side of the field to catch a ball that wasn't thrown to him?

He ranked number 3 in the NFL the last 3 seasons for lowest number of drops.

I would say he CAPITALIZED on plenty of his chances,

You really do like to cherry pick stats to try and find some argument, but at the end of the day you're talking about an under performing WR. If you went onto some other forum for all teams and put this much energy into defending a nobody like Walter, you'd look like a pretty hard core homer to be putting out this much effort for a below average WR like Walter.

Lowest # of drops? Dude, he doesn't even get the ball thrown to him that often, because he struggles to get separation. That is one of the most meaningless stats you could have found to try and act like Walter is anything other then some coach favorite at this point. He'll be weeded out of this offense as the season goes on. It's inevitable.

Texn4life
08-27-2012, 05:47 PM
That's because people are over stating the skill level that it takes to do something like that.

Besides that I can remember a few times KW has been penalized for those types of plays and truthfully he probably should have been flagged there as Vinny alluded to...

I will also add to that pick plays are run in every level of football. There aren't 9 year NFL vets playing high school football these days to do this. I applaud him when he makes a good block, catches a nice pass, has a nice run after a catch, but I think its stretching to just pat him on the back and jump up and down over this one.

76Texan
08-27-2012, 05:50 PM
You really do like to cherry pick stats to try and find some argument, but at the end of the day you're talking about an under performing WR. If you went onto some other forum for all teams and put this much energy into defending a nobody like Walter, you'd look like a pretty hard core homer to be putting out this much effort for a below average WR like Walter.

Lowest # of drops? Dude, he doesn't even get the ball thrown to him that often, because he struggles to get separation. That is one of the most meaningless stats you could have found to try and act like Walter is anything other then some coach favorite at this point. He'll be weeded out of this offense as the season goes on. It's inevitable.

You can go back and check the stats of the number of passes he had the last 3 years.

It's a good guess that he also had good hands in 2008.

He caught more balls in that time period than McCaffrey whom some of you guys thought to be really great.

And the first half of the Titans game I just broke down shows that Walter did get open. (And this happened in every of the 9 games I watched with the All-22 view and the end zone view).

He could have had at least 5 catches at the half easily.

76Texan
08-27-2012, 06:03 PM
Last year's Oakland Game, Shaub targeted Jacoby 11 times, not one catch.

He targeted Walter..... 0 times. We lost that game. If KW was getting open & it would have helped us win the game, I'm sure Schaub would have found a way to at least throw the ball his way.

Unless now we're saying Schaub should be replaced.

Walter had 5 catches for 81 yards and a TD in that game.

76Texan
08-27-2012, 06:07 PM
I think they are both related. The Oakland game was real. We should have wanted to win. Schaub should be looking for the open receiver.


I don't think he's lying at all.... but maybe his idea of open isn't the same as Schaub's idea of open & his is the one that counts. Besides, 76 may not be able to post video, but he's mastered the art of the screen shot & has the photobucket account to prove it.

I really wanted to post some screen shots, but I really don't have the time that I like to have.

At this moment, I should be watching to see which guys might make the roster instead of engaging in this debate.

Walter will be doing the same thing he's been doing for the Texans this year.
Next year, we don't know yet.
It's too far off in the future to make any kind of prediction on an old veteran whose health may not hold up with all the wears and tears that go with the territory.

Texecutioner
08-27-2012, 06:57 PM
You can go back and check the stats of the number of passes he had the last 3 years.

It's a good guess that he also had good hands in 2008.

He caught more balls in that time period than McCaffrey whom some of you guys thought to be really great.

And the first half of the Titans game I just broke down shows that Walter did get open. (And this happened in every of the 9 games I watched with the All-22 view and the end zone view).

He could have had at least 5 catches at the half easily.

I just don't see that as a definitive evidence personally. I think you want to believe that Walter is able to get open and make all of these plays. Sometimes people see what they want to see.

I just wish this thread would die at this point. Walter is going to go into the season as the #2 guy. I think he'll slowly get phased out of the offense though. Either way, I'll root for him and every other Texan to play well. Especially the young WR's that keep showing praise.

LikeMike
08-27-2012, 07:04 PM
The thing with Walter is: he can be really good receiving wise in a couple of games and then disappear for the next couple of games. I dont know if that`s because our QB isn`t looking his way, or if it is a motivational issue on his part, or if he just can`t beat certain kind of DBs. Whatever it is, it`s frustrating, and that`s why so many people want to replace him.

But he is very valueable beyond his catching ability. His blocking, his experience, his leadership and not to forget he is a WR that is never complaining. The ultimate team player. But I don`t think Kubiack would be mad, to put Walter at WR3 with a real receiving threat at WR2. But so far none of our young guys have proven, that they are mature enough and can do all the little things besides receiving. If Martin or Jean can develope into that player, I think everyone will be happy.

Quick II Draw
10-09-2012, 06:11 AM
Did anyone see Walter block Kyle Wilson into the endzone on Foster's TD run?

TimeKiller
10-09-2012, 08:32 AM
I saw Walter catching a bunch of first downs too.

HJam72
10-09-2012, 08:35 AM
TBH, Walter is looking a lot better in general this year than I expected. Thought he was getting a little old, but I guess last year was just not his best year for some other reason.

Texn4life
10-09-2012, 08:35 AM
Kevin has played well so far this year in his role. When Jean comes back its gonna help out big time I think. We need another threat to help out the crew.

thunderkyss
10-09-2012, 08:55 AM
TBH, Walter is looking a lot better in general this year than I expected. Thought he was getting a little old, but I guess last year was just not his best year for some other reason.

Schaub has been looking a lot better this year. Stretching the field & finding open receivers every where. He's got AJ, OD, & KDub and he's using them all on any part of the field.

GlassHalfFull
10-09-2012, 09:00 AM
Schaub has been looking a lot better this year. Stretching the field & finding open receivers every where. He's got AJ, OD, & KDub and he's using them all on any part of the field.

Schaub is focused and hungry this year. Someone said this last week and I think they made a good point. Having to watch TJ finish the season and play in the playoffs was murder on him. He wants his turn.

76Texan
10-09-2012, 10:46 AM
TBH, Walter is looking a lot better in general this year than I expected. Thought he was getting a little old, but I guess last year was just not his best year for some other reason.

Some folks are now saying certain things about AJ.
Worry too much. :) :scarygirl:

stingray
10-21-2012, 05:53 PM
I think Kevin has played pretty damn well this year. The guy is consistent with great hands. None of the "kids" have stepped up yet, so Kevin, Andre and Daniels are still carrying the load for the most part.

burro
10-21-2012, 05:58 PM
Is it just me or does Walter seem to have gotten MUCH better at bursting off the line and getting separation? He'll never be a speed demon, but he's been a legit deep option for us this season. Good news.

ThaShark316
10-21-2012, 06:01 PM
http://i50.tinypic.com/122m785.jpg

http://static.bbmp3.com/smilies/sadto.gif That's my receiver.

TEXANRED
10-21-2012, 06:02 PM
Great job Walters, er, Walter. :bubbles:

Seriously though, great job.

CretorFrigg
10-21-2012, 06:02 PM
Is it just me or does Walter seem to have gotten MUCH better at bursting off the line and getting separation? He'll never be a speed demon, but he's been a legit deep option for us this season. Good news.

The CB was biting on all of Walter's double moves. I've never seen Walter do that...

It must have been film study because Jimmy Smith has been known to bite on the double moves, and give up a bomb. Good job on Walter's part for studying his opponent beforehand.

Brandon420tx
10-21-2012, 06:04 PM
I'm surprised we haven't been using Foster in the passing game more

Corrosion
10-21-2012, 06:05 PM
I think Kevin has played pretty damn well this year. The guy is consistent with great hands. None of the "kids" have stepped up yet, so Kevin, Andre and Daniels are still carrying the load for the most part.

Shoulda had two TD's .... Schaub missed him on one and had another one way off target that Walter bailed him out on after getting .... all alone wide open.


How bout that INT saving tip / catch by Graham ....

stingray
10-21-2012, 06:13 PM
Shoulda had two TD's .... Schaub missed him on one and had another one way off target that Walter bailed him out on after getting .... all alone wide open.


How bout that INT saving tip / catch by Graham ....

That was a thing of beauty. Made up for all the dumb penalties he commited.

Norg
10-21-2012, 07:02 PM
i can never hate on Kevin for one hes to pretty and 2 he made the catch that got us into the playoffs for the first time ever

thunderkyss
10-21-2012, 07:36 PM
Is it just me or does Walter seem to have gotten MUCH better at bursting off the line and getting separation? He'll never be a speed demon, but he's been a legit deep option for us this season. Good news.

He worked the double move beautifully today. This is what we need to see from KDub on a more consistent basis. I can't remember when he had a better game.

I don't expect him to play like this every game, but it would be nice to see this more times than not.

rolyat93
10-21-2012, 08:03 PM
Shoulda had two TD's .... Schaub missed him on one and had another one way off target that Walter bailed him out on after getting .... all alone wide open.


How bout that INT saving tip / catch by Graham ....

The drive where Schaub missed him deep was the same one KW got his TD on.:kitten:

thunderkyss
10-21-2012, 08:06 PM
Houston, I think we've got a #2 WR

valleytexfan
10-21-2012, 08:24 PM
KW will never be a speed burner, but he HARDLY drops passes. He's a sure-handed guy who's definitely done a BETTER job of getting downfield this year. He should be a solid No. 3 but he's our No. 2 and I'm OK with that.

False Start
10-21-2012, 08:48 PM
I've always been an a KW fan. He may not be flashy, or high profile but he can catch the ball in some clutch situations

kiwitexansfan
10-21-2012, 09:06 PM
For a guy with no speed he can still get seperation deep downfield, must run some MEAN routes.

Texecutioner
10-21-2012, 09:53 PM
I went off on KW a lot before the season. He is pleasantly surprising me at this point and playing better then expected. Hopefully he can keep it up.

Goldensilence
10-21-2012, 10:20 PM
I went off on KW a lot before the season. He is pleasantly surprising me at this point and playing better then expect. Hopefully he can keep it up.

To me the biggest difference is having AJ out there healthy and coverages rolling to him and KW has always been good at getting into holes in coverage. He's not a typical WR or the kind that you and I would want for a #2 slot on the WR corps, but he's certainly got a niche in the offense. I do think it's a matter of time before he does get supplanted and moved down into the #3 where he's better suited. I don't know if he's exceeding my expectations as much as he looks better in the role he's supposed to be in.

Overall the execution in this offense has been impressive this year in that this offense will come at you from different angles. They're a run first team with Foster and Tate, they can go over the top with AJ, OD is killing people over the middle (already has matched last season's TDs), and it seems like other people, while not consistent, are stepping up and making plays when they need it. Schaub has been pretty much like a conductor in this offense this year distributing the ball.

Corrosion
10-21-2012, 10:28 PM
The drive where Schaub missed him deep was the same one KW got his TD on.:kitten:

Thats why I said he should have had 2 TD's ... the other one Schaub made go to the turf when he was all alone. That ball thrown accurately he coulda jogged to the endzone.

MEGA SWATT
10-21-2012, 10:46 PM
Houston, I think we've got a #2 WR

fo sho

gtexan02
10-21-2012, 11:11 PM
KW plays amazingly well 1 or 2 games a year, pretty well for a bunch of others, and disappears for a few. This is not out of his normal production. Ravens were missing their #1 corner. He had a good matchup and exploited it. I wouldn't call this a breakout performance just yet

Rey
10-21-2012, 11:43 PM
Kw is doing what he needs to do. Catch footballs and get open. This is what will keep him as a starter. Blocking and stuff is great, but wr's must catch footballs.

Ryan
10-21-2012, 11:48 PM
The rabid Lestar Jean fanbase has been awfully quiet this year. :kitten:

kiwitexansfan
10-21-2012, 11:55 PM
KW plays amazingly well 1 or 2 games a year, pretty well for a bunch of others, and disappears for a few. This is not out of his normal production. Ravens were missing their #1 corner. He had a good matchup and exploited it. I wouldn't call this a breakout performance just yet

He does what he always does. He is a GREAT complimentary receiver and possession guy. No one would ever call him a #1 WR (although when he has been #1 with AJ out he has done pretty decently) but he is all you want in a #2. Reliable, great hands, in great sync with the QB, aware of down and distance and a great blocker.

mike moffat
10-22-2012, 12:48 AM
Kevin Walter is still on of my favorite Texan. His kick butt attitude and catching damned near everything thrown his way will keep him on my list. Some things can't be coached or taught. Attitude is one.

thunderkyss
10-22-2012, 12:52 AM
KW plays amazingly well 1 or 2 games a year, pretty well for a bunch of others, and disappears for a few. This is not out of his normal production. Ravens were missing their #1 corner. He had a good matchup and exploited it. I wouldn't call this a breakout performance just yet

Kw is doing what he needs to do. Catch footballs and get open. This is what will keep him as a starter. Blocking and stuff is great, but wr's must catch footballs.

To me it looked like Kubiak changed their roles up a little bit. He knows that Andre is still going to get a lot of attention, but he didn't ask Andre to sprint up field. Andre did a lot of hooks, quick outs, a lot of "possesion" type stuff. KDub.... I don't know if I ever saw him downfield that often.

We finally found a receiver that can't outrun Matt's arm, & that may be a good thing for us. If Kubiak can keep drawing up plays to get him open..... may actually make more sense than trying to get the young'ns up to speed.

Andre still appears to be high on Schaub's progression list, 9 catches for 86 yards... add a touchdown & I'd take that any day, every day.

GP
10-22-2012, 12:57 AM
The rabid Lestar Jean fanbase has been awfully quiet this year. :kitten:

He's been hurt and out for the past several weeks. Nothing to cheer.

Corrosion
10-22-2012, 02:28 AM
The rabid Lestar Jean fanbase has been awfully quiet this year. :kitten:

Jean made a few plays when given the opportunity .... he's been inactive after a knee scope for the past couple weeks. I expect him to contribute when he returns .... believe it or not , he's much like Walter.

thunderkyss
10-22-2012, 08:15 AM
Jean made a few plays when given the opportunity .... he's been inactive after a knee scope for the past couple weeks. I expect him to contribute when he returns .... believe it or not , he's much like Walter.

Wasn't he on the field yesterday? I think he took several snaps, especially late. I don't think he was targeted, but he didn't look bad.

AFS
10-22-2012, 08:23 AM
For a guy with no speed he can still get seperation deep downfield, must run some MEAN routes.

Remember this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjVFQCd8TzU

Brandon420tx
10-22-2012, 09:16 AM
That second deep ball that KDub caught in the middle of the 3rd would have been a TD if he hadn't have hesitated. We scored anyway and took waaaay more time off the clock, which worked out better in my opinion.

Corrosion
10-22-2012, 09:49 AM
For a guy with no speed he can still get seperation deep downfield, must run some MEAN routes.

Walter runs very crisp and precice routes which is a big part of the reason they use him in combination routes that free up other guy's.

That second deep ball that KDub caught in the middle of the 3rd would have been a TD if he hadn't have hesitated. We scored anyway and took waaaay more time off the clock, which worked out better in my opinion.

Her didnt hesitate .... Schaub made an errant throw and Walter made the catch anyway.

Brandon420tx
10-22-2012, 09:52 AM
It looked like he slowed his run to me. either that or the corner got faster for a brief second.

Double Barrel
10-22-2012, 12:28 PM
I've always been an a KW fan. He may not be flashy, or high profile but he can catch the ball in some clutch situations

yep. Looks like some fans are finally starting to figure out our offense. The no. 2 WR plays a specific role. Just because two players are wide receivers does not necessarily mean that they are used the exact same way in the scheme. The folks complaining that Walter could not just step up as no. 1 when AJ went down always seems confused by this Kubiak offense. When we eventually lose Walter, they will be shocked when Kubiak tries to find another no. 2 WR just like him simply because that's how this offense is designed.

Brandon420tx
10-22-2012, 01:51 PM
He already found a no. 2 just like him. It's my firm belief he drafted Posey for the specific purpose of taking that role in 3 or 4 years. So we can make the transition without a hitch

Ryan
10-22-2012, 02:18 PM
He's been hurt and out for the past several weeks. Nothing to cheer.


Even so, people like the OP who are/were at the least anti-Walter fans have been quiet, and I haven't heard any peeps about him getting benched for Jean even when he's 100%. I like Jean but some people have gross overassumptions of what he really is, which is probably at best a contributor that can make some plays, but is likely not going to be a superstar and maybe not even an NFL starter.

Corrosion
10-22-2012, 03:47 PM
yep. Looks like some fans are finally starting to figure out our offense. The no. 2 WR plays a specific role. Just because two players are wide receivers does not necessarily mean that they are used the exact same way in the scheme. The folks complaining that Walter could not just step up as no. 1 when AJ went down always seems confused by this Kubiak offense. When we eventually lose Walter, they will be shocked when Kubiak tries to find another no. 2 WR just like him simply because that's how this offense is designed.

Man Im not looking forward to that .... But then again , maybe some who have been on Walters ass for the past year or two will finally realize just how important he is to the success of this offensive scheme and in every facet.


:kitten:

76Texan
10-22-2012, 03:56 PM
Kw is doing what he needs to do. Catch footballs and get open. This is what will keep him as a starter. Blocking and stuff is great, but wr's must catch footballs.

He's been doing it for years, Rey!

The Pencil Neck
10-22-2012, 04:28 PM
He's on pace to have his best year since 2008 which was the last time he had over 800 yards receiving.

There's been rumors and talk that maybe he's been playing with and through injuries the past couple of years. If that's true and if he returns to 2008 form, that could be huge because 2007/2008, KW was a clutch, go-to, move-the-chains receiver. 2009/2010/2011... not so much.

thunderkyss
10-22-2012, 05:26 PM
He's on pace to have his best year since 2008 which was the last time he had over 800 yards receiving.

There's been rumors and talk that maybe he's been playing with and through injuries the past couple of years. If that's true and if he returns to 2008 form, that could be huge because 2007/2008, KW was a clutch, go-to, move-the-chains receiver. 2009/2010/2011... not so much.

Regardless. If Everyone in the organization "knew" KDub was capable of a game like that, he wouldn't have been asked to take a paycut. He would have restructured or exteded his deal. As it is, He obviously plays better than he practices & Kubiak went on faith & put in a few plays for him to "stretch" the defense.

He looked like a #2 receiver. A prototypical productive #2. Reggie Wayne to Marvin Harris, Torry Holt to Isaac Bruce, Torry Smith to Anquan Boldin.... ok, he looked better than Boldin & Smith combined, but you get my point.

76Texan
10-22-2012, 05:52 PM
According to spotrac, KW received a $1M bonus in 2011 to bump his overall salary to $3M.

I try to compare his contract with other #2 receiver on 15 other teams (starting in alphabet order: AZ, ATL, and so on,) I found that there's only one team with two receivers having a better contract than KW (the Bears with Edwards and Hester.)

KW's contract is actually better than that of the #1 receiver on some team.

Paycut or no paycut, he's still very well compensated.

Dutchrudder
10-23-2012, 01:48 PM
Kdub says hello from the end zone:
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/RavensWalterTD2.gif

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/WalterTDSpike1.gif


http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/BroncosWalterTD1.gif