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76Texan
09-13-2012, 07:33 PM
Dude come on.
are you telling me a CB wont get flagged for PI more often than not if he dont turn to locate the ball ??? This right here is common knowledge that even the least interested fan knows.

Dude, once again, you are generalizing things!

Well, obviously, you don't know it (and I'm saying this without preconception, etc.)

You are taking into account less than you should have while generalizing things more than you should have.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 07:36 PM
Dude, once again, you are generalizing things!

Well, obviously, you don't know it (and I'm saying this without preconception, etc.)

You are taking into account less than you should have while generalizing things more than you should have.

It is the NFL where rules are "generally" the same. I am not saying KJ hasnt improved cause honestly i think he has, but he needs to turn his head, cause the Refs regardless of it was actually PI or not will call it 9 out of 10 times if the DB has his back to the ball hand fighting with a WR.

76Texan
09-13-2012, 07:38 PM
EU, let me tell something more in a certain term that is more acceptable to you.
Jason Allen is currently a back-up and Kareem Jackson is a starter.

There would be at least 3 coaching staffs that made a mistake if they were you.

76Texan
09-13-2012, 07:42 PM
It is the NFL where rules are "generally" the same. I am not saying KJ hasnt improved cause honestly i think he has, but he needs to turn his head, cause the Refs regardless of it was actually PI or not will call it 9 out of 10 times if the DB has his back to the ball hand fighting with a WR.

In this instance, you're not generalizing things, but you're picking and choosing.

You need to go back and read every single post in this thread (and perhaps some in other threads as well).

After that, you can take it straight to Vance Joseph and Wade Phillips.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 07:42 PM
EU, let me tell something more in a certain term that is more acceptable to you.
Jason Allen is currently a back-up and Kareem Jackson is a starter.

There would be at least 3 coaching staffs that made a mistake if they were you.

J. Allen was good against the deep ball. Had a knack for making a play on the ball, was good at locating the ball. Never said he was the best CB in the league. Though he did split time with KJ the whole time he was here. He was going to get money from some team, we cutt Winston, traded demeco, released Jacoby so i doubt we were going to resign Allen for what he got offered from other teams.

And ur avoiding my question am i right or wrong about the PI calls on DBs who have their backs to the ball ?

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 07:44 PM
In this instance, you're not generalizing things, but you're picking and choosing.

You need to go back and read every single post in this thread (and perhaps some in other threads as well).

After that, you can take it straight to Vance Joseph and Wade Phillips.

I'm not picking and choosing. I am stating what happens to ALL DBs around the NFL who have their backs to the ball. (KJ always has his back to the ball on deep balls) It's a valid question/concern.

76Texan
09-13-2012, 07:48 PM
Now, I need to remind you EU, that I have a brother-in-law (who is a year older than I am) that is quite the KJ's hater.

I'm very tight with him, nonetheless.
We watched a lot of Oilers footballs together.
I watched most Texans games with him.

I understand the criticism first hand, so to speak.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 07:50 PM
Now, I need to remind you EU, that I have a brother-in-law (who is a year older than I am) that is quite the KJ's hater.

I'm very tight with him, nonetheless.
We watched a lot of Oilers footballs together.
I watched most Texans games with him.

I understand the criticism first hand, so to speak.

HAHA well i dont hate on KJ like i used to, infact like i said he has greatly improved since his rookie campaign, i just think theres a few things he needs to improve on. Now his short passing game and run defense are GREAT. Its just his deep coverage that needs improvment IMO.

thunderkyss
09-13-2012, 07:51 PM
It is the NFL where rules are "generally" the same. I am not saying KJ hasnt improved cause honestly i think he has, but he needs to turn his head, cause the Refs regardless of it was actually PI or not will call it 9 out of 10 times if the DB has his back to the ball hand fighting with a WR.

Not nine times out of 10. But you do have a point. However, there is more to turning your head to avoiding a PI. As long as the DB does not touch the receiver before the ball gets there.

Let's imagine, that Kj turns his head to locate the ball, but the ball sails over his head, as he turns. He doesn't see the ball. It is in the receivers hands. The receiver is now running towards the endzone as Kj turns back towards the receiver.

That's what we want to prevent. So, let's say the defense called expects #25 to gaurd against a free release to the inside. I don't know, assume the DC watched a lot of film on the opposing teams tendencies & because of the down & distance, he wants Kj to play that slant.

However, the receiver never goes inside, instead he releases to the big side of the field, away from the CB, away from the safety. Now the CB is in a trail position. He still thinks it will be something short & quick, so he's guarding against a curl or a quick out.

Then he sees the receiver's hands go up, he sees the eyes go up.

That ball is coming, he knows that, but he has no idea how long ago the ball was thrown (his back is to the QB). He could turn his head & locate the ball. Or, he can get his hands up, in the projected path of the ball. If he keeps his eyes on the receiver, he can quickly tackle him or smack his arms if he notices the receiver catch the ball.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 07:55 PM
Not nine times out of 10. But you do have a point. However, there is more to turning your head to avoiding a PI. As long as the DB does not touch the receiver before the ball gets there.

Let's imagine, that Kj turns his head to locate the ball, but the ball sails over his head, as he turns. He doesn't see the ball. It is in the receivers hands. The receiver is now running towards the endzone as Kj turns back towards the receiver.

That's what we want to prevent. So, let's say the defense called expects #25 to gaurd against a free release to the inside. I don't know, assume the DC watched a lot of film on the opposing teams tendencies & because of the down & distance, he wants Kj to play that slant.

However, the receiver never goes inside, instead he releases to the big side of the field, away from the CB, away from the safety. Now the CB is in a trail position. He still thinks it will be something short & quick, so he's guarding against a curl or a quick out.

Then he sees the receiver's hands go up, he sees the eyes go up.

That ball is coming, he knows that, but he has no idea how long ago the ball was thrown (his back is to the QB). He could turn his head & locate the ball. Or, he can get his hands up, in the projected path of the ball. If he keeps his eyes on the receiver, he can quickly tackle him or smack his arms if he notices the receiver catch the ball.

The angle the ref usually has is either in front our behind the WR/DB. They make a lot of bad PI calls. I'm not saying it will be fault but its one of those things that Refs see and call without actually seeing if the DB was touching the WR or not.

We have ALl send some BAD PI calls. And either way mostly its because The DB had his back to the ball and never tried to locate it.

76Texan
09-13-2012, 07:57 PM
J. Allen was good against the deep ball. Had a knack for making a play on the ball, was good at locating the ball. Never said he was the best CB in the league. Though he did split time with KJ the whole time he was here. He was going to get money from some team, we cutt Winston, traded demeco, released Jacoby so i doubt we were going to resign Allen for what he got offered from other teams.

And ur avoiding my question am i right or wrong about the PI calls on DBs who have their backs to the ball ?

I'm not picking and choosing. I am stating what happens to ALL DBs around the NFL who have their backs to the ball. (KJ always has his back to the ball on deep balls) It's a valid question/concern.

You need to be more specific on these things.

Every play is different.

Yes, it is true that the call would go against the DB when he doesn't look back at the ball (when he actually commit PI in the first place).

I can guarantee with you that KJ has been a very good cover corner.
He's been tight with the receiver and in the long run, it will not be easy to call PI on him the longer he's in the league.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 07:58 PM
The angle the ref usually has is either in front our behind the WR/DB. They make a lot of bad PI calls. I'm not saying it will be fault but its one of those things that Refs see and call without actually seeing if the DB was touching the WR or not.

We have ALl send some BAD PI calls. And either way mostly its because The DB had his back to the ball and never tried to locate it.

still this

TejasTom
09-13-2012, 08:00 PM
our just get pass interference called on him A LOT, which is what will happen


Routt, Stanford DB Oak 7
Peterson, Patrick DB Ari 6
Browner, Brandon DB Sea 5
Haden, Joe DB Cle 5
Florence, Drayton DB Buf 4
Wright, Eric DB Det 4


In 2011 KJ and 13 other DBs (Ball was one) had 3 PIs, the above had more.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 08:02 PM
Routt, Stanford DB Oak 7
Peterson, Patrick DB Ari 6
Browner, Brandon DB Sea 5
Haden, Joe DB Cle 5
Florence, Drayton DB Buf 4
Wright, Eric DB Det 4


In 2011 KJ and 13 other DBs (Ball was one) had 3 PIs, the above had more.

In 2011 we also pressured the QB A LOT not much time for deep balls really. I am only talking about deep balls when it comes to KJ. He is a good short to medium cover CB

thunderkyss
09-13-2012, 08:03 PM
The angle the ref usually has is either in front our behind the WR/DB. They make a lot of bad PI calls. I'm not saying it will be fault but its one of those things that Refs see and call without actually seeing if the DB was touching the WR or not.

We have ALl send some BAD PI calls. And either way mostly its because The DB had his back to the ball and never tried to locate it.

And if a ref makes a bad call, no coach in the NFL is going to tell his player to do anything differently.

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 08:04 PM
And if a ref makes a bad call, no coach in the NFL is going to tell his player to do anything differently.

Not saying they will but it could still majorly affect the outcome of the game regardless.

76Texan
09-13-2012, 08:07 PM
HAHA well i dont hate on KJ like i used to, infact like i said he has greatly improved since his rookie campaign, i just think theres a few things he needs to improve on. Now his short passing game and run defense are GREAT. Its just his deep coverage that needs improvment IMO.

Well, just to know that I'm not a blind defender.

You and my brother-in-law will make a pair.

Sure, there are legitimate questions here and there.

He came to pretty much the same conclusion (at the same moments in time).

Still question on certain part of his game, and the rest.

I've been telling you the same thing as I've been telling my tight brother-in-law of some 27 years.
I told him the same exact thing about Chris Myers before; I'm no stranger to these things.

At the end of the day, I will still be watching a lot of Texans games with him; that is not going to change, I'm sure of it, LOL!

EllisUnit
09-13-2012, 08:09 PM
Well, just to know that I'm not a blind defender.

You and my brother-in-law will make a pair.

Sure, there are legitimate questions here and there.

He came to pretty much the same conclusion (at the same moments in time).

Still question on certain part of his game, and the rest.

I've been telling you the same thing as I've been telling my tight brother-in-law of some 27 years.
I told him the same exact thing about Chris Myers before; I'm no stranger to these things.

At the end of the day, I will still be watching a lot of Texans games with him; that is not going to change, I'm sure of it, LOL!


HAHA yeah guess we'll never agree on KJ. Oh well we're both still texans fans at the end of the day.

steelbtexan
09-14-2012, 12:42 AM
KJ could have a Petey Faggins season and 76 would still shot him into an all-pro.

KJ plays great when the balls in front of him and although he's gotten better he's still below avg when he has to track a WR more than 25 yds down the field.

Perki-Perk
09-14-2012, 12:48 AM
KJ could have a Petey Faggins season and 76 would still shot him into an all-pro.

KJ plays great when the balls in front of him and although he's gotten better he's still below avg when he has to track a WR more than 25 yds down the field.

Remember that crow stew we talked about? It's still brewing..it's in the crock pot. We gon throw some spice in there. Ooh Wee it's gon be good!

TejasTom
09-14-2012, 12:56 AM
In 2011 we also pressured the QB A LOT not much time for deep balls really. I am only talking about deep balls when it comes to KJ. He is a good short to medium cover CB

His 3 PIs were for 94 yds, so yes deep throws.

silvrhand
09-14-2012, 09:15 AM
KJ could have a Petey Faggins season and 76 would still shot him into an all-pro.

KJ plays great when the balls in front of him and although he's gotten better he's still below avg when he has to track a WR more than 25 yds down the field.

LOL.. you guys think every corner that gets picked in the first round is another hall of famer.

KJ has:
- great tackling ability
- above average short to middle game.
- below to average long game, and seems to be improving.

He fits very well in our high pressure defense, very similar to what he played in college. What more do you want, do you want him to drop a beer on you in the stands while he's picking off the ball and running it back for a touchdown?

JJ has had his share of really bad plays you could nitpick to death, preseason he was beat twice on the same play! FIRE HIM!

EllisUnit
09-14-2012, 11:00 AM
LOL.. you guys think every corner that gets picked in the first round is another hall of famer.

KJ has:
- great tackling ability
- above average short to middle game.
- below to average long game, and seems to be improving.

He fits very well in our high pressure defense, very similar to what he played in college. What more do you want, do you want him to drop a beer on you in the stands while he's picking off the ball and running it back for a touchdown?

JJ has had his share of really bad plays you could nitpick to death, preseason he was beat twice on the same play! FIRE HIM!

PRE SEASON :truck:

steelbtexan
09-14-2012, 09:55 PM
Remember that crow stew we talked about? It's still brewing..it's in the crock pot. We gon throw some spice in there. Ooh Wee it's gon be good!

Lookin forward to it

rolyat93
09-15-2012, 03:11 AM
Lookin forward to it

Don't forget to turn your head.:fingergun:

dream_team
09-15-2012, 10:49 AM
KJ could have a Petey Faggins season and 76 would still shot him into an all-pro.

KJ plays great when the balls in front of him and although he's gotten better he's still below avg when he has to track a WR more than 25 yds down the field.

I tend to side with 76. Who else watches more game tape than him?

thunderkyss
09-15-2012, 10:58 AM
I tend to side with 76. Who else watches more game tape than him?

Frank Bush watched a bunch of game field & still got it wrong.... a lot. Not saying '76 is wrong, just say'n.....

:kitten:

EllisUnit
09-15-2012, 11:04 AM
Frank Bush watched a bunch of game field & still got it wrong.... a lot. Not saying '76 is wrong, just say'n.....

:kitten:

:spit:

dream_team
09-15-2012, 04:49 PM
Frank Bush watched a bunch of game field & still got it wrong.... a lot. Not saying '76 is wrong, just say'n.....

:kitten:

Even though he was "wrong" alot, I'd still value Frank Bush's football opinion more than anyone on this board.

kingh99
09-15-2012, 05:11 PM
Kareem Jackson is a cornerback, a position that doesn't peak performance-wise until yr 4-6. It's an investment as much as a pick. These guys last longer than QBs. KJ could be destined for a legendary play or plays this season or next. He definitely has athletic potential to be part of some great plays.

Kareem Jackson is tough. He never shies from a collision. That's a valued quality for a CB. Anyway I hope he turns into a clutch player because he picked good years to suck. Nothing was happening those years anyway. And odds favor his career status rising because of success the Texans should have as long as Wade Phillips and Gary Kubiak are running the defense and offense.

badboy
09-15-2012, 11:28 PM
Kareem Jackson is a cornerback, a position that doesn't peak performance-wise until yr 4-6. It's an investment as much as a pick. These guys last longer than QBs. KJ could be destined for a legendary play or plays this season or next. He definitely has athletic potential to be part of some great plays.

Kareem Jackson is tough. He never shies from a collision. That's a valued quality for a CB. Anyway I hope he turns into a clutch player because he picked good years to suck. Nothing was happening those years anyway. And odds favor his career status rising because of success the Texans should have as long as Wade Phillips and Gary Kubiak are running the defense and offense.not saying tackling is not important but I'd much rather corners keep the ball out of WRs hands.

kingh99
09-16-2012, 08:43 AM
not saying tackling is not important but I'd much rather corners keep the ball out of WRs hands.

Agreed. Trying to find sunshine wherever I can. Seems like his arc is in ascent which is apparently good enough for the coaches. Plenty of pressure and things can change, but for now he's earned his spot on the field.

kwayshauntay
09-16-2012, 04:04 PM
Kareem played a nice game today. He made plays, and even turned his head on coverage of a deep ball to Shorts. No complaints today whatsoever.

Decent 1st week, very good 2nd week. Let's keep this trend going.

HJam72
09-16-2012, 04:34 PM
I never liked the word "improbable" in this thread title. It was always inevitable that he would get better. We still won't know how good he can get for like another 2 years. Problem was we started him as our #1 corner in his rookie year. Even most 1st round corners (which I know he is one) can't handle that.

Heck, J. Joseph is still improving some, not that he needs to.

Corrosion
09-16-2012, 05:19 PM
I never liked the word "improbable" in this thread title. It was always inevitable that he would get better. We still won't know how good he can get for like another 2 years. Problem was we started him as our #1 corner in his rookie year. Even most 1st round corners (which I know he is one) can't handle that.

Heck, J. Joseph is still improving some, not that he needs to.

Jackson probably played his best game as a pro today .... they didnt give Gabbert many openings today. 76 yards passing .... while playing with a lead all day long ?! Thats just sick.

CloakNNNdagger
09-16-2012, 09:46 PM
Jackson probably played his best game as a pro today .... they didnt give Gabbert many openings today. 76 yards passing .... while playing with a lead all day long ?! Thats just sick.

For the most part, KJ was on Blackmon. Blackmon was glaringly cricket material today.

EllisUnit
09-16-2012, 09:49 PM
Will reserve my judment on KJ this season until he faces an actual passing threat, manning, brady, rogers etc....so far he has faced Tannehil and Gabbert not exactly the cream of the crop.....

steelbtexan
09-16-2012, 09:56 PM
Jackson probably played his best game as a pro today .... they didnt give Gabbert many openings today. 76 yards passing .... while playing with a lead all day long ?! Thats just sick.

Like I said in the gameday thread, if he continues to perform at this level against Rodgers/Brady/Manning/Stafford etc... then I will take my serving of crow smothered in brown gravy. (Very Happily) Hopefully games against 2-3rd tier QB's will help get KJ's confidence up and he will play well against the top tier QB's.

dream_team
09-16-2012, 10:00 PM
Like I said in the gameday thread, if he continues to perform at this level against Rodgers/Brady/Manning/Stafford etc... then I will take my serving of crow smothered in brown gravy. (Very Happily) Hopefully games against 2-3rd tier QB's will help get KJ's confidence up and he will play well against the top tier QB's.

That's not very fair. The elite QBs will make most DBs look horrible.

Insideop
09-16-2012, 10:04 PM
That's not very fair. The elite QBs will make most DBs look horrible.

Nothing in life is fair! And that goes double for the "fans" on this message board! :pirate:

thunderkyss
09-16-2012, 10:05 PM
Will reserve my judment on KJ this season until he faces an actual passing threat, manning, brady, rogers etc....so far he has faced Tannehil and Gabbert not exactly the cream of the crop.....

You've got a point, however, we're talking about Kj's play. Was he where he was supposed to be? Did he get beat? Burnt? Turned around? Did he make plays on the ball? Tackle? etc.. etc.. those things will give you an idea of how he's going to do when he faces Manning, Brees, Brady... which is really a team thing more than a Kj thing.

He covered some "decent" WR talent. No "known" names, but talented players all the same. We saw good things as well as bad. We see he's not making many of the same mistakes he made last year.

Most importantly, we're seeing a confident player gaining more confidence every week. I like that.

EllisUnit
09-16-2012, 10:08 PM
You've got a point, however, we're talking about Kj's play. Was he where he was supposed to be? Did he get beat? Burnt? Turned around? Did he make plays on the ball? Tackle? etc.. etc.. those things will give you an idea of how he's going to do when he faces Manning, Brees, Brady... which is really a team thing more than a Kj thing.

He covered some "decent" WR talent. No "known" names, but talented players all the same. We saw good things as well as bad. We see he's not making many of the same mistakes he made last year.

Most importantly, we're seeing a confident player gaining more confidence every week. I like that.

Gabbert had NO time to do anything, what was he like 7 of 19 for 58 yards are some B.S. They had 2 starters on the O-Line it's not like the camera evern went down field very much to even show the secondary, so how should i know if KJ got beat or was out of position. All i know is an elite QB and O-line will make/attempt those throws against him.

I'm not saying he played bad, just saying lets see how he does against a legit passing game.

thunderkyss
09-16-2012, 11:15 PM
Gabbert had NO time to do anything, what was he like 7 of 19 for 58 yards are some B.S. They had 2 starters on the O-Line it's not like the camera evern went down field very much to even show the secondary, so how should i know if KJ got beat or was out of position. All i know is an elite QB and O-line will make/attempt those throws against him.

I'm not saying he played bad, just saying lets see how he does against a legit passing game.

Did you watch the whole game? There were several shots of Kj in coverage.

Corrosion
09-17-2012, 08:48 AM
Did you watch the whole game? There were several shots of Kj in coverage.

He broke in front of recievers on multiple plays .... He ran their routes better than they did.

76Texan
09-17-2012, 10:45 PM
Will reserve my judment on KJ this season until he faces an actual passing threat, manning, brady, rogers etc....so far he has faced Tannehil and Gabbert not exactly the cream of the crop.....

LOL, I remember somebody was worrying sick that the Jags drafted Blackmon! :spit:

Rey
09-18-2012, 08:15 AM
Gabbert had NO time to do anything, what was he like 7 of 19 for 58 yards are some B.S. They had 2 starters on the O-Line it's not like the camera evern went down field very much to even show the secondary, so how should i know if KJ got beat or was out of position. All i know is an elite QB and O-line will make/attempt those throws against him.

I'm not saying he played bad, just saying lets see how he does against a legit passing game.

Gabby is not a great qb, but some of those pressures and sacks were due to coverage. That Brooks reed almost safety was because gabby had nowhere to go with the ball...

Lady.Gaga.3000
09-23-2012, 08:18 PM
Kareem Jackson is better. He is good to me. He was good in last years playoffs, and our biggest game so far this season he was good.

dtran04
09-23-2012, 08:19 PM
Good game by him. Better than Joseph today actually. Got screwed on that PI call.

beerlover
09-23-2012, 08:23 PM
Kareem Jackson is better. He is good to me. He was good in last years playoffs, and our biggest game so far this season he was good.

Good 4 Gaga is bad to BL :wesmantexanfan:

ThaJokaa
09-23-2012, 08:23 PM
Good game by him. Better than Joseph today actually. Got screwed on that PI call.

This, who ever thinks other wise an idiot. He clearly played the receiver and located the ball..

Lucky
09-23-2012, 08:48 PM
This, who ever thinks other wise an idiot. He clearly played the receiver and located the ball..
I agree, that was a bad flag on Jackson. The flags on McCain were legit, however. He was Manning's whipping boy.

Rey
09-23-2012, 09:36 PM
Kareem didn't have quite the game I predicted, but the guy was good today. And that was a ****ty flag on Jackson.

TEXANRED
09-23-2012, 10:10 PM
KJ is a solid legit #2 CB.

badboy
09-23-2012, 10:25 PM
I was very satisfied with KJ today. I now want to see if Harris can replace McCain for 2013.
What did you all think of Demps?

aussie_texan
09-23-2012, 10:59 PM
I was very satisfied with KJ today. I now want to see if Harris can replace McCain for 2013.
What did you all think of Demps?

im really happy with demps. his a playmaker always involved in nearly popping the ball out or interceptions. can get caught out sometimes but overall i like him a lot

hradhak
09-23-2012, 11:03 PM
Was Manning hurt? Demps got a lot of reps in there and played well. Not that I mind, but I hope that we wasn't playing because of injury.

thunderkyss
09-24-2012, 09:06 PM
Kareem didn't have quite the game I predicted, but the guy was good today. And that was a ****ty flag on Jackson.

It's hard to say. We never saw what the ref saw as they only televised the view from behind Kj & Decker. It's possible Kj threw up an arm bar & the ref in the end zone saw it & we didn't.

thunderkyss
09-24-2012, 09:07 PM
I was very satisfied with KJ today. I now want to see if Harris can replace McCain for 2013.
What did you all think of Demps?

Demps had a good game. First time I didn't question letting Nolan go. He was every where.

Was Manning hurt? Demps got a lot of reps in there and played well. Not that I mind, but I hope that we wasn't playing because of injury.

I don't know. But if we go to 6 DBs, which we do a lot, we'll have three safeties & three corners on the field.

TejasTom
09-24-2012, 09:09 PM
Was Manning hurt? Demps got a lot of reps in there and played well. Not that I mind, but I hope that we wasn't playing because of injury.

Nothing mentioned in the press conference.

Texan_Bill
09-24-2012, 09:16 PM
I agree, that was a bad flag on Jackson. The flags on McCain were legit, however. He was Manning's whipping boy.

KJ is a solid legit #2 CB.

In the words of Bernie "The Wolf": "Well, let's not start sucking each other's ****s quite yet"

Although I will agree Kareem has played much, much better!!!!

*EDITED*
Edited to clean it up a bit!!!!

HJam72
09-24-2012, 09:27 PM
Here's my take on that interference call on KJ:

KJ played pretty well all day. On this play, though, he covered the receiver pretty well (and was actually behind the receiver on a pass that was going over them), up until he looked for the ball. When KJ looked for the ball, he made a wrong assumption. He assumed it was thrown to the inside (toward the middle of the field) and it was not. He went in that direction toward where he thought the ball would be. The receiver, who was behind him and not as close for instance to the end-line as him, then tried to go to where the ball was actually going to land, and KJ was in his way. They collided (not hard, but they made contact).

Now, you've got KJ running the wrong way and impeding the receiver. The ref called this interference. My objection is that KJ has a right to be wherever he is going to "be." If he wants to chase butterflies all over the field, he has a right to do that, and if he gets in a receiver's way, that is just the receiver's problem. KJ has a right to "go for the ball," even if his idea of where the ball is going is totally clueless.

My main point is that I really don't think they ever call that offensive pass interference if the positions are switched. KJ has a right to be out there running around like a chicken with his head cut off just like any receiver does. It's not like the grabbed or shoved the receiver in any way. Only thing I can figure is that possibly the ref felt that KJ was "intentionally" confused about the location of the ball. We know that KJ doesn't fake this kind of stupidity. :)

Allstar
09-24-2012, 10:38 PM
Usually when Demps is in it's because we slide Quin to CB. Manning stays on the field.

76Texan
09-24-2012, 10:56 PM
Here's my take on that interference call on KJ:

KJ played pretty well all day. On this play, though, he covered the receiver pretty well (and was actually behind the receiver on a pass that was going over them), up until he looked for the ball. When KJ looked for the ball, he made a wrong assumption. He assumed it was thrown to the inside (toward the middle of the field) and it was not. He went in that direction toward where he thought the ball would be. The receiver, who was behind him and not as close for instance to the end-line as him, then tried to go to where the ball was actually going to land, and KJ was in his way. They collided (not hard, but they made contact).

Now, you've got KJ running the wrong way and impeding the receiver. The ref called this interference. My objection is that KJ has a right to be wherever he is going to "be." If he wants to chase butterflies all over the field, he has a right to do that, and if he gets in a receiver's way, that is just the receiver's problem. KJ has a right to "go for the ball," even if his idea of where the ball is going is totally clueless.

My main point is that I really don't think they ever call that offensive pass interference if the positions are switched. KJ has a right to be out there running around like a chicken with his head cut off just like any receiver does. It's not like the grabbed or shoved the receiver in any way. Only thing I can figure is that possibly the ref felt that KJ was "intentionally" confused about the location of the ball. We know that KJ doesn't fake this kind of stupidity. :)

It's looking more and more like Chris Myers part II.
Poke some fun at the guy before finally coming the final realization :)

TexansFanatic
09-30-2012, 03:16 PM
Gotta give the man his propers. That was a textbook pass defense there at the end of the third. Looked back for the ball at precisely the right moment and swatted the ball away.

Congrats, Mr. Jackson.

TexansFanatic
09-30-2012, 03:47 PM
Hahahaha!!! And the pick-six sews it up.

Our little baby's all groweds up! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEGiVaXpj94)

fiasco west
09-30-2012, 04:00 PM
Kareem had a great game today. Completely locked up his man and had pick 6 just in case.

SAMURAITEXAN
09-30-2012, 04:03 PM
Yep, KJ did great today.

Go KJ!!!

Go Texans!!!

srrono
09-30-2012, 04:11 PM
Yep, KJ did great today.

Go KJ!!!

Go Texans!!!

I second this GREAT JOB KJ

Corrosion
09-30-2012, 04:18 PM
Hahahaha!!! And the pick-six sews it up.

Our little baby's all groweds up! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEGiVaXpj94)

Yeah , he's grown up before our eyes ... gone from the outhouse to the penthouse.

thunderkyss
09-30-2012, 04:46 PM
I thought it was awesome, the pick six. It felt like Mario's first sack at Reliant.

Pantherstang84
09-30-2012, 04:51 PM
Instead of wondering where he suddenly got football talent, everyone just admit they were wrong about him. He had a horrid secondary coach his rookie season in David Gibbs. It has taken time to undo that damage.

HJam72
09-30-2012, 05:30 PM
It just takes a long time for a lot of young corners to get acclimated to the NFL. I don't doubt what the previous poster just said, though.

fiasco west
09-30-2012, 05:32 PM
Instead of wondering where he suddenly got football talent, everyone just admit they were wrong about him. He had a horrid secondary coach his rookie season in David Gibbs. It has taken time to undo that damage.

I'm not admitting anything because I've had faith in him all along.

I saw the improvement he made and that is really all that matters. As they say you're either getting better or worse and Kareem has improved from year to year.

TexansFanatic
09-30-2012, 05:39 PM
He had a crapload of bad games. He needs at least a few more big games to make up for that.

I'm happy to admit when I'm wrong. It happens so often, I'm quite used to it.

At this point, it certainly looks like I was too quick to write him off.

noxiousdog
09-30-2012, 05:41 PM
It's especially hard on corners because you should expect passes to be completed at a 60% clip.

I'm glad he's gotten better though. Not all guys do.

TEXANRED
09-30-2012, 06:02 PM
Instead of wondering where he suddenly got football talent, everyone just admit they were wrong about him. He had a horrid secondary coach his rookie season in David Gibbs. It has taken time to undo that damage.

I admit it!

TimeKiller
09-30-2012, 06:05 PM
He sure had himself a helluva game today!

Scooter
09-30-2012, 06:13 PM
replace his "rookie" season in '10 with his real first season in '11 - jackson has been exactly as advertised.

'10 he was the leader of the kiddie corners without a coach in sight. deion sanders would've looked like phillip buchannon in that situation. the setting being fubar is being polite.

'11 he has wade and vance, and platoons the #2 spot as he should've his first season. solid play, shows development, will be a capable corner with experience and pretty good with coaching.

scratch the 2010 season, erase it from your memory and judge kareem jackson on what he's done since.

Titans Sux 72
09-30-2012, 06:16 PM
Instead of wondering where he suddenly got football talent, everyone just admit they were wrong about him. He had a horrid secondary coach his rookie season in David Gibbs. It has taken time to undo that damage.

I will happily eat crow. That being said his technique and talent is and was not good at all his first and second year. He is a work in progress and could not be happier for his game today. He earned it! I just hope he continues to improve.
1-0.

TheEastwood
09-30-2012, 06:22 PM
Instead of wondering where he suddenly got football talent, everyone just admit they were wrong about him. He had a horrid secondary coach his rookie season in David Gibbs. It has taken time to undo that damage.



I admit nothing. Jackson did suck his first year here.... Massively. Last year he was better but still got picked on (especially in that Saints game). This year, he's markedly better and playing great so far.

I call em like I see em. If a player sucks, I'll call him out. If he's good, I'll give props. KJ been playing well, so.... props

thunderkyss
09-30-2012, 07:47 PM
replace his "rookie" season in '10 with his real first season in '11 - jackson has been exactly as advertised.

'10 he was the leader of the kiddie corners without a coach in sight. deion sanders would've looked like phillip buchannon in that situation. the setting being fubar is being polite.

'11 he has wade and vance, and platoon's the #2 spot as he should've his first season. solid play, shows development, will be a capable corner with experience and pretty good with coaching.

scratch the 2010 season, erase it from your memory and judge kareem jackson on what he's done since.

Coaching aside, we also had little to no pass rush in '10 as well. Bullman & Barwin were out for the season early. Cushing (our most dynamic player at the time) was suspended the first four games & Demeco (our best defensive player & leader) missed 10 games. Eugene Wilson didn't make the season either did he?

1st round pick, yeah, a lot should be expected of him. But I think we were piling it on way to thick. Poor coach, poor defense.... nobody shined on that defense.

Marcus
09-30-2012, 10:03 PM
Whether some of want admit you were wrong or not, that's up to you.

But the word "improbable" in the thread title is INAPPROPRIATE and needs to be REMOVED.

Showtime100
09-30-2012, 10:19 PM
I haven't put my 2 cents in this thread. KJ has come a long way. What a pleasure to watch a player grow like he has. I was wrong for making fun like I did.

No matter his performance next week (within reason :D), he's fun to watch knowing where he was three years ago.

GP
09-30-2012, 10:29 PM
Whether some of want admit you were wrong or not, that's up to you.

But the word "improbable" in the thread title is INAPPROPRIATE and needs to be REMOVED.

My, my,...somebody has too much starch in their Wranglers today.

I don't have to admit to anything because I never said he doesn't belong...I said he needs to hurry his ass up and get there. I think that's pretty much been the sentiment of all us "haters," Marcus. LOL.

Put on some relaxed fit jeans and let the boys breathe, Marcus. It's liberating.

steelbtexan
09-30-2012, 10:48 PM
I admit nothing. Jackson did suck his first year here.... Massively. Last year he was better but still got picked on (especially in that Saints game). This year, he's markedly better and playing great so far.

I call em like I see em. If a player sucks, I'll call him out. If he's good, I'll give props. KJ been playing well, so.... props

^^^^
This

He has improved. But how much wont be known until after he faces Rodgers/Brady/Stafford/Cutler etc....

If I'm wrong I will have my crow smothered with brown gravy. After this season.

76Texan
09-30-2012, 10:51 PM
All the standard responses of a Chris Myers part 2 thread.

Open a few old Chris Myers thread and away with the copy and paste. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

Perki-Perk
09-30-2012, 11:04 PM
^^^^
This

He has improved. But how much wont be known until after he faces Rodgers/Brady/Stafford/Cutler etc....

If I'm wrong I will have my crow smothered with brown gravy. After this season.

You, sir, don't deserve any topping or seasoning on your crow! Nice and plain for you, yes, nice and plain!

TexansFanatic
09-30-2012, 11:10 PM
All the standard responses of a Chris Myers part 2 thread.

Open a few old Chris Myers thread and away with the copy and paste. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif


If KJ improves to the point he's considered by some to be the top corner in the league (as Myers is sometimes mentioned at his position) that would truly be something.

Lucky
09-30-2012, 11:17 PM
scratch the 2010 season, erase it from your memory...
This year's team is helping me forget a lot of bad seasons.

Marcus
09-30-2012, 11:17 PM
My, my,...somebody has too much starch in their Wranglers today.

I don't have to admit to anything because I never said he doesn't belong...I said he needs to hurry his ass up and get there. I think that's pretty much been the sentiment of all us "haters," Marcus. LOL.

Put on some relaxed fit jeans and let the boys breathe, Marcus. It's liberating.

:rolleyes:

It never ceases to amaze how anyone with any football smarts at all, cannot see how a pass rush helps out the secondary. It's just as fundamental as you could possibly get. Jackson was a rookie on a defense that had NO pass rush. Nada. Zip.

Yet, HE sucked.

Right.

steelbtexan
09-30-2012, 11:23 PM
You, sir, don't deserve any topping or seasoning on your crow! Nice and plain for you, yes, nice and plain!

LOL

Repped

Norg
10-01-2012, 12:17 AM
im so proud of K JAXS he grown so much bring s a tear to my eyes

now he has a chance to excersice so bad taste in his mouth from his past games aganist the jets who will he be covering this week ?????

Who are the Jets WR's LOL ?????

rolyat93
10-01-2012, 01:30 AM
I'm honestly happy for him, even if he wasn't a Texan it's still awesome to see a guy come from being where he was to where he is now. The fact that I watched every game and experienced the frustration to now being excited to see him play really puts the icing on the cake.

kiwitexansfan
10-01-2012, 03:46 AM
He and Manning got the #1 spot on 21st and Prime this week.

I know many don't like him, but I love me some PrimeTime.

It is so refreshing to have 4 DBs you can trust.

Porky
10-01-2012, 11:48 AM
KJ had his best game as a pro yesterday. His first year he was flat out awful....like cut the guy awful. Yesterday he looked like a #1 corner out there.

Last year he showed marked improvement, and he has taken another step this year. He had some issues in Denver but all in all, he has now moved to a very solid #2 corner and the good news is I think he has room for improvement still to come. Meaning he has a chance to be one of the top #2 corners in the game if he continues to work hard.

It's all just a LOT better technique which I credit to much better coaching with Joseph and a much better scheme...along with a better pass rush. He is doing so much better in the intermediate area, and he was very good last year short, so now he needs to get better at the longer pass plays. He still gets burned deep too much probably because his speed is just average overall and he doesn't have the make-up speed of the top guys, but if he can continue to improve in his recognition skills and technique he can make up for lack of deep speed and if he can do that the sky's the limit.

thunderkyss
10-01-2012, 12:25 PM
If KJ improves to the point he's considered by some to be the top corner in the league (as Myers is sometimes mentioned at his position) that would truly be something.

I don't ever think it was about talent. I think he's got it in spades. It's always been about recognition & confidence, trusting what your eyes see.... that kind of thing.

He's looked more & more confident this year & I think it's just a matter of time.

There are some good corners out there, especially in the AFC, but....


I wouldn't be surprised if we send two corners to the Pro Bowl. If not this year, then next.

thunderkyss
10-01-2012, 12:50 PM
He and Manning got the #1 spot on 21st and Prime this week.

I know many don't like him, but I love me some PrimeTime.

It is so refreshing to have 4 DBs you can trust.

What I like about Prime, is that he's natural & real. Some of these guys get the job because someone "thinks" they're funny then they spend years, "trying" to say something funny.

Like Shannon Sharpe.... or Keyshawn Johnson... :kubepalm:


:wadepalm:

ObsiWan
10-01-2012, 12:53 PM
I don't ever think it was about talent. I think he's got it in spades. It's always been about recognition & confidence, trusting what your eyes see.... that kind of thing.

He's looked more & more confident this year & I think it's just a matter of time.

There are some good corners out there, especially in the AFC, but....


I wouldn't be surprised if we send two corners to the Pro Bowl. If not this year, then next.

Kinda how "skill set" means nothing unless it translates into production (looks at Em.....)
:backsout:

brakos82
10-01-2012, 01:51 PM
http://i.imgur.com/5FGG0.jpg

Dutchrudder
10-01-2012, 02:00 PM
:rolleyes:

It never ceases to amaze how anyone with any football smarts at all, cannot see how a pass rush helps out the secondary. It's just as fundamental as you could possibly get. Jackson was a rookie on a defense that had NO pass rush. Nada. Zip.

Yet, HE sucked.

Right.

There's no way you can look at his rookie year and say that he was good. He had potential, just like every other player drafted, but he was terrible that year no matter how you slice it. He fell down regularly, which is just something you can't do in the secondary. I don't care who your coach is, falling down is inexcusable and it should have been fixed well before Wade Phillips got here.

It's just like the Chris Myers deal where he was awful his first year, he had potential for sure, but it's not like he was some diamond in the rough. They were both needed a lot of refinement to their game, before they could be considered really good at their position. It appears KJax is finally getting to his potential, and I hope he continues to improve even more.

Mr teX
10-01-2012, 02:38 PM
somebody needs to start the "improbable improvement of Brice McCain" thread. he's been the guy that's been getting picked on lately.

He'll need to step up big for our toughest stretch of games.

GB...Jennings, Jones and Jordy..tough combo to handle

NE....Lloyd, Welker and Edelman...2 of those guys are younger, quicker versions of the guy who ate him up in denver... Brandon Stokley.


Less worried about baltimore..I feel he can handle Jacoby

Marcus
10-01-2012, 03:51 PM
This actually happened yesterday. Thought I'd share ....

The wife and I had business to tend to Sunday, so we had to tape the game and watch it later in the afternoon. I had been noticing that KJax was having a good game, and after a play in the 4th, in which he broke up another pass, I commented to my wife, "You know, that guy has taken so much **** since he's been on this team, I think it would so f'king sweet if he picked one off and took it all the way back. That would be so cool!"

THE VERY NEXT PLAY, he picked it off and took it back for 6. Both of us leaped out of chairs, and yelled "Oh my God! Are you kidding me"!

She looks at me with this wary eye, and says, "Did you get that off the Internet or something?" I go, "No hon, I don't like being spoiled any more than you do!" She gets up, and starts looking around for my IPhone, my IPad, my laptop, and anything else that I could have used. Nada, they were all upstairs in the office. She finally sits back down and says, "you're just weird, you do that way, way too often."

:D

Mailman
10-01-2012, 04:31 PM
For all the attention the pick 6 got, I think this play best epitomizes his growth as an NFL cornerback.

http://i49.tinypic.com/nnw138.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/2q9e2cx.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/4jxapu.jpg

eriadoc
10-01-2012, 04:49 PM
I had been noticing that KJax was having a good game, and after a play in the 4th, in which he broke up another pass, I commented to my wife, "You know, that guy has taken so much **** since he's been on this team, I think it would so f'king sweet if he picked one off and took it all the way back. That would be so cool!"

THE VERY NEXT PLAY, he picked it off and took it back for 6. Both of us leaped out of chairs, and yelled "Oh my God! Are you kidding me"!

So why the hell did you wait so long to do that? :D

gtexan02
10-09-2012, 10:55 AM
Another great game by K Jax.

I was especially impressed that he played keep away after that INT before finally giving himself up on the ground.

He ate up valuable clock and did not risk a fumble during the return. Very smart move

b0ng
10-09-2012, 11:40 AM
Wow, so Kareem Jackson. . . isn't as bad as he was a few years ago.

I like my crow served with zesty garlic parmesean sauce.

Perki-Perk
10-09-2012, 11:54 AM
Wow, so Kareem Jackson. . . isn't as bad as he was a few years ago.

I like my crow served with zesty garlic parmesean sauce.

What's with all the seasoning. Crow is not meant to be tasty! lol.

And Kareem isn't bad at all. He's actually turned out to be a pretty good corner. Not quite great yet, but he's looked better than J-Jo in a couple games. He's learned a lot from him and Vance obviously.

The Pencil Neck
10-09-2012, 11:54 AM
Wow, so Kareem Jackson. . . isn't as bad as he was a few years ago.

I like my crow served with zesty garlic parmesean sauce.

You will have it with butter and salt, sir. Butter and salt.

Playoffs
10-09-2012, 12:03 PM
A big shout out to 76Texan (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/search.php?do=finduser&u=9360&starteronly=1) for being right all along on KJ. :clap:

Having said that, remember that KJ will struggle against the top big WRs still. He's not as bad as people were saying he was before -- he's also not as great as his recent "press clippings" pronounce, either.

76Texan
10-09-2012, 12:05 PM
I think we should serve those at the front of the line some seasoning, just make it a little salty. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif :runaway:

buddyboy
10-09-2012, 12:05 PM
Interception on a tipped pass is nice to see, but really not even something I'd attribute to him. He's had solid coverage, but it still frustrated me that he had his back to the play on that endzone pass (which, in fairness, didn't end up being even catchable by his receiver)

thunderkyss
10-09-2012, 12:13 PM
What's with all the seasoning. Crow is not meant to be tasty! lol.

And Kareem isn't bad at all. He's actually turned out to be a pretty good corner. Not quite great yet, but he's looked better than J-Jo in a couple games. He's learned a lot from him and Vance obviously.

I've defended Kj since day one. Not that he didn't "suck" but he played over his head as a rookie.

However, he has looked better than Jjo in the last 2-3 games, because Jjo's level of play has dropped as much as Kj's has improved. I think Jjo is dealing with one of those undocumented injuries & we just need him to get healthy.

b0ng
10-09-2012, 12:15 PM
I've defended Kj since day one. Not that he didn't "suck" but he played over his head as a rookie.

However, he has looked better than Jjo in the last 2-3 games, because Jjo's level of play has dropped as much as Kj's has improved. I think Jjo is dealing with one of those undocumented injuries & we just need him to get healthy.

It's easy to sit back and say "I've defended him since day one" when you registered for this board only a few months ago.

thunderkyss
10-09-2012, 12:18 PM
Interception on a tipped pass is nice to see, but really not even something I'd attribute to him. He's had solid coverage, but it still frustrated me that he had his back to the play on that endzone pass (which, in fairness, didn't end up being even catchable by his receiver)

Get over it, watch other CBs, sometimes you play the QB, sometimes you play the receiver. On that play, he's playing the receiver, he's going to have his back to the QB. That was text-book & Sanchez threw the ball away because he knew he had no shot.

As far as the INT on the tipped ball, I think it shows great, yes great, improvement on the part of Kj because it shows he's expanding his awareness beyond his particular responsibilities. The game is slowing down for him & now he's able to "see" the field. More or less. Just like jumping the pass on his last INT, he's not focusing on "technique" he's playing off instincts & it was his instincts that made the Texans think he was "the most NFL ready" corner available @ 20

buddyboy
10-09-2012, 12:19 PM
Get over it, watch other CBs, sometimes you play the QB, sometimes you play the receiver. On that play, he's playing the receiver, he's going to have his back to the QB. That was text-book & Sanchez threw the ball away because he knew he had no shot.

As far as the INT on the tipped ball, I think it shows great, yes great, improvement on the part of Kj because it shows he's expanding his awareness beyond his particular responsibilities. The game is slowing down for him & now he's able to "see" the field. More or less. Just like jumping the pass on his last INT, he's not focusing on "technique" he's playing off instincts & it was his instincts that made the Texans think he was "the most NFL ready" corner available @ 20

What do you mean "get over it". I've defended KJ over the years constantly, I'm just nitpicking that there is still room for improvement.

A couple games ago when he jumped that pass, now THAT was encouraging.

thunderkyss
10-09-2012, 12:22 PM
What do you mean "get over it". I've defended KJ over the years constantly, I'm just nitpicking that there is still room for improvement.

A couple games ago when he jumped that pass, now THAT was encouraging.

Get over it, as in he will not always be facing the QB, sometimes it's better to keep his eyes on the receiver. That receiver never "went" for the ball, Kj had no "tell" to turn around & look for the ball. Sanchez threw it away.

Playoffs
10-09-2012, 12:25 PM
It's easy to sit back and say "I've defended him since day one" when you registered for this board only a few months ago.
Don't be getting "all literal" on us. :kitten:

buddyboy
10-09-2012, 12:26 PM
Get over it, as in he will not always be facing the QB, sometimes it's better to keep his eyes on the receiver. That receiver never "went" for the ball, Kj had no "tell" to turn around & look for the ball. Sanchez threw it away.

You're right, the WR never made a movement that he was actually going for the ball. I do think that a good QB and good WR can make that hookup over his head (neither of which existed in last night's game, but like I said, I'm nitpicking to temper my own optimism)

76Texan
10-09-2012, 12:55 PM
On the INT, the Jets lined up with 2 receivers and the TE on Jackson's side.
The Texans were in 2-deep, man-under.

The Jets ran a double Hi-Lo concept with the #1 receiver - the wide out Schilens #85 (Kareem's man) - and the #2 receiver - the slot receiver #11 Kerley (McCain's man) - running deep routes to clear out the space underneath.
The TE #86 Cumberland ran a 10-yd square out.

This pattern is designed to keep the safety Nolan back deep while forcing the LCB back on his heel as well (as he might not get safety's help).

Jackson recognized the pattern very well and broke off his man to help out Quin.
The flexibility in the hips afforded Kareem the ability to react back and change direction quickly - as well as to stick with the receiver.)
He was ready to put the hit on the TE when he saw the ball being deflected.
Again, that hip flexibility allowed him to change direction yet again to make the INT.

On one of his previous INTs, he also recognized the tip ball quickly and played through the receiver to get to the ball. There's no PI on a batted ball; the CB can even tackle the receiver if he wanted to.
He beat the receiver to the punch.

All 3 of his INTs are quality plays, IMHO.

76Texan
10-09-2012, 01:07 PM
On the ball that Sanchez had to throw away, the receiver Schillen ran a swirl route.
Jackson was in one-on-one with Schillen, no safety help.

Schillen ran 10 yards and worked to the inside hard before cutting back toward the corner.

Had Jackson turned his head (it would have been to the inside), he would have lost the receiver when he cut back toward the corner.

All Jackson had to do is what he did: To pin the receiver to the end line and push him out of bound when the ball comes (with the change in rule that came out a few years ago, the CB can push the receiver out of bound once the ball is in his hands.) If the receiver doesn't have both feet in bound, it's an incompletion. Simple but efficient strategy by Jackson here.

badboy
10-09-2012, 01:10 PM
Coaching. We see it on our Oline also.

thunderkyss
10-09-2012, 01:14 PM
All Jackson had to do is what he did: To pin the receiver to the end line and push him out of bound when the ball comes (with the change in rule that came out a few years ago, the CB can push the receiver out of bound once the ball is in his hands.) If the receiver doesn't have both feet in bound, it's an incompletion. Simple but efficient strategy by Jackson here.

I can only hope that was Kj's plan. Hope he isn't reading these boards & feeling the pressure to turn his head & play the ball. The simplest thing to do there, like you said, is when the reciever keys in on the ball in the air, before his feet comes down, push him out of bounds.

I don't see many DBs playing it that way. But since the rule change, it's the highest percentage play imo.

I agree, Kj did an excellent job forcing the receiver to the back line & keeping his eyes on him.

buddyboy
10-09-2012, 01:34 PM
I can only hope that was Kj's plan. Hope he isn't reading these boards & feeling the pressure to turn his head & play the ball. The simplest thing to do there, like you said, is when the reciever keys in on the ball in the air, before his feet comes down, push him out of bounds.

I don't see many DBs playing it that way. But since the rule change, it's the highest percentage play imo.

I agree, Kj did an excellent job forcing the receiver to the back line & keeping his eyes on him.

Completely forgot about that rule, ya'll are 100% correct.

76Texan
10-09-2012, 02:04 PM
I can only hope that was Kj's plan. Hope he isn't reading these boards & feeling the pressure to turn his head & play the ball. The simplest thing to do there, like you said, is when the reciever keys in on the ball in the air, before his feet comes down, push him out of bounds.

I don't see many DBs playing it that way. But since the rule change, it's the highest percentage play imo.

I agree, Kj did an excellent job forcing the receiver to the back line & keeping his eyes on him.

It happens from time to time.
Jackson did it against Dez Bryant once in his rookie year on a ball along the sideline. Bryant is big and tall and can jump. It was a good play by Jackson knowing that he can't outjump the receiver.

Also, JJo did it recently against the Denver's receiver, whatshisname (?) in the endzone. He was beat, but recovered enough give the receiver a shove before he can get both feet inbound.

thunderkyss
10-09-2012, 06:25 PM
Also, JJo did it recently against the Denver's receiver, whatshisname (?) in the endzone. He was beat, but recovered enough give the receiver a shove before he can get both feet inbound.

Nah, Jjo had nothing to do with that play. He was beat, like a rookie playing on the '10 Texans' defense. D.Thomas just wasn't able to get his toe down.


I didn't see a push that should have prevented Thomas from getting his toe down.

b0ng
10-09-2012, 09:25 PM
http://i.imgur.com/JGj3s.gif

76Texan
10-09-2012, 11:00 PM
Nah, Jjo had nothing to do with that play. He was beat, like a rookie playing on the '10 Texans' defense. D.Thomas just wasn't able to get his toe down.


I didn't see a push that should have prevented Thomas from getting his toe down.

Watch the replay again Fidd, in slow motion if you will.
J Jo did just enough to push D. Thomas out of bound.
I just rewatched it again (I must have rewatched that play close to twenty times.)

76Texan
10-09-2012, 11:03 PM
http://i.imgur.com/JGj3s.gif

Nice pix, b0ng!
For that, you deserve all the zesty garlic parmesean sauce you want on your crow. :)

rolyat93
10-10-2012, 12:00 AM
It's easy to sit back and say "I've defended him since day one" when you registered for this board only a few months ago.

I defended him on Clutchfans, can I have a cookie?:kitten:

TejasTom
10-10-2012, 08:46 AM
I defended him on Clutchfans, can I have a cookie?:kitten:

:cookie:

Playoffs
12-17-2014, 08:08 PM
Just caught an interview on 610AM...

KJ is a grown ass man, now. Mature, no bitterness about the past. I was impressed with the fact he doesn't make a point of tooting his own horn to the younger guys about his overcoming adversity. If they ask, he'll share.

PFF has Jackson rated 15th/110 CBs with a +7.0.

Kareem is an UFA and I think we need to re-sign him. His skillset overlays well with RAC's multiple defense. Sign him, OB!

PHILLYTEXANFAN
12-17-2014, 08:13 PM
I have been a big Kareem of Wheat advocate forever. He definitely is a must sign

JB
12-17-2014, 08:23 PM
I think this is a no brainer and should be the priority of the off season signings

EVOLVIST
12-17-2014, 08:55 PM
It'll be Jackson and Bouye at starting corners next year. JJo is gone.

Bouye is already better than Jackson was in Jackson's second year. Bouye is growing up a lot. Sure, there's been some growing pains, but he really handles himself like a pro back there; he has a short memory when he screws up, which really isn't that often if you look at it subjectively.

I feel pretty good about that tandem. It's just that JJo doesn't have "it" anymore.

Or, we might get a FA and leave Jackson in the slot. Whichever way, I think we're close to set for CBs next year.

JB
12-17-2014, 09:01 PM
It'll be Jackson and Bouye at starting corners next year. JJo is gone.

Bouye is already better than Jackson was in Jackson's second year. Bouye is growing up a lot. Sure, there's been some growing pains, but he really handles himself like a pro back there; he has a short memory when he screws up, which really isn't that often if you look at it subjectively.

I feel pretty good about that tandem. It's just that JJo doesn't have "it" anymore.

Or, we might get a FA and leave Jackson in the slot. Whichever way, I think we're close to set for CBs next year.

I've been more impressed by Morris than Bouye, he might be the 3rd corner that allows Jackson to move into the slot when in nickle

PHILLYTEXANFAN
12-17-2014, 09:06 PM
I've been more impressed by Morris than Bouye, he might be the 3rd corner that allows Jackson to move into the slot when in nickle

Bingo

Vance87
12-17-2014, 09:17 PM
PFF has Jackson rated 15th/110 CBs with a +7.0.

Could you give us that entire list?

infantrycak
12-17-2014, 09:21 PM
Could you give us that entire list?

Or at least all the Texans?

Vance87
12-17-2014, 09:23 PM
Or at least all the Texans?

Well wouldn't the entire list have all of the Texans? :kitten:

EllisUnit
12-17-2014, 11:11 PM
I have said since we drafted the kid what an outstanding talent he was :kitten:

:cool:

Scooter
12-17-2014, 11:30 PM
i'll pound my chest on this one, kareem got dealt a ridiculous hand and wasnt given a fair chance by the fans (though "and kareem jackson falls down" was funny as hell). i certainly think he needs to be re-signed. kareem's on my short list of most underrated players in the NFL. he's solid in both man and zone. he's gotten pretty strong on deeper routes. usually a fantastic tackler from outside and inside spots. one of very few top guys who is even better in the slot (which is HUGE). and he excels when challenged - in the slot vs welker or outside vs megatron - kareem can take his game up a notch. a must keep.

i also want to re-sign joseph, though i worry about the cost. our nickel+ guys look so good because they have strong talent around them. one area we could really hurt teams next year is by returning our defensive backs. we've gotten better every week with the packages and who works best with who. seeing manning and lewis paired with jackson, jo and bouye is legit. sub in morris and swearinger for a more physical alignment. i absolutely keep joseph (and frankly our entire secondary) for that alone ... this is a group that's getting very good within the scheme.

Playoffs
12-17-2014, 11:35 PM
Could you give us that entire list?
Or at least all the Texans?
As much as I can do without getting in dutch with PFF:

Qualified...

http://i62.tinypic.com/2jdgxw3.jpg (http://i62.tinypic.com/2jdgxw3.jpg)
click for larger

All...

http://i61.tinypic.com/103sshc.jpg ([URL="http://i61.tinypic.com/103sshc.jpg)
click for larger

infantrycak
12-17-2014, 11:40 PM
That matches my impression. Attempting to replace JJo with Bouye will be a giant step down in coverage.

Rolle has been a pleasant surprise.

JB
12-17-2014, 11:50 PM
That matches my impression. Attempting to replace JJo with Bouye will be a giant step down in coverage.

Rolle has been a pleasant surprise.

If we have to replace JJo, do it with Morris and let Rolle come in on the nickel package

Bouye may be fine with some more time and teaching, but he seems to get caught looking to much

EVOLVIST
12-18-2014, 12:19 AM
Guys, mark my words. Right here. Bouye will be more than a solid player for us, if not straight up starter material.

No disrespect to Morris, but Bouye from the beginning of the season until now has already taken giant strides in what should be considered, really, his rookie season after injury in year one.

It's true that both Morris and Bouye went undrafted, and in that respect the Texans might have hit paydirt. We're talking Morris at age 24 and Bouye at 23.

At this point, yes, Bouye has been a liability in the tackling department in the open field, though even more injerous to the Texans has been a lack of a true safety. We have an aging one, sure. Otherwise, we have a couple of hard hitters. That's all.

In other words, I think this is the most taleneted group of CBs we've ever had.

Get us at least one good center fielder and we look a lot better out there (with or without JJo).

dream_team
12-18-2014, 12:59 AM
I feel pretty good about that tandem. It's just that JJo doesn't have "it" anymore.


JJo may not be the shutdown, pro bowl corner he was when he first got here. But he's still a pretty good, above average corner. I fear most fans in here won't appreciate his play until he's gone.

Now despite my thoughts of him, I do agree he's most likely to be cut. He's no longer at the right value. I expect us to draft a corner in the first 3 rounds, and he'll split time with Bouye & Morris.

Whoever is opposite of KJ next season will be picked on a lot!

Scooter
12-18-2014, 01:42 AM
JJo may not be the shutdown, pro bowl corner he was when he first got here. But he's still a pretty good, above average corner. I fear most fans in here won't appreciate his play until he's gone.

Now despite my thoughts of him, I do agree he's most likely to be cut. He's no longer at the right value. I expect us to draft a corner in the first 3 rounds, and he'll split time with Bouye & Morris.

Whoever is opposite of KJ next season will be picked on a lot!

i think you've hit every single point. jo's not the player he was. he is still a solid corner (if a legit #1 can be called something as lowly as "solid"). the fans would rather have a new player than a good player. probably going to be cut because of his price/value. as good as they look protected, our great depth will be abused when exposed without their veteran's doing the real work (as they were in the bengals game).

i know you cant pay everybody, but as far as any free agency money goes, i think the single greatest thing we could do within our current roster is retain our defensive backfield. good strong individual talent, but more than that is how exceptionally well the players fit together and within the packages we run. one of the single biggest things we did this season was sub in daniel manning to pair with joseph. earlier this season i diagrammed a defensive scheme we were going to get beat by leading up a game with dj and jo, and sure enough that exact combination lead to 2 big plays the following game - for around 100 yards and a touchdown. manning and jo? shut that scenario down. we have the correct talent to do anything we want in the secondary, it'd be foolish to let even a single piece of that go unless the money was franchise crippling.

Bulls on Parade
12-18-2014, 02:10 AM
Hopefully we can draft a cornerback in the first, second or third round in the 2015 draft. Along with a quarterback and wide receiver. In whatever order but those three positions I wouldn't hesitate to draft. Replacing Andre Johnson at some point won't be easy but we should start considering that soon.

Hindsight is 20-20 but had I known Jadeveon Clowney was going to be injury prone maybe we should have traded down and snagged either Sammy Watkins or Odell Beckham Jr. in the first round last year. We need a quarterback, PERIOD. Until we have a good one we can't even talk about winning a Super Bowl or two. That to me has been a franchise long problem.

We have to hit a grand slam with our first three picks in the 2015 draft.
I think Rick Smith will be fired soon if he doesn't dominate the '15 draft.

Brisco_County
12-18-2014, 02:12 AM
Guys, mark my words. Right here. Bouye will be more than a solid player for us, if not straight up starter material.

...

It's true that both Morris and Bouye went undrafted, and in that respect the Texans might have hit paydirt. We're talking Morris at age 24 and Bouye at 23.

...

In other words, I think this is the most taleneted group of CBs we've ever had.

Get us at least one good center fielder and we look a lot better out there (with or without JJo).

One of the reasons we have better depth at CB is due to switching from purely man coverage to mostly zone. In the league overall, there are fewer players with the athleticism to play only man. With more zone, the talent pool is broader.

And I agree, we got lucky acquiring Bouye and Morris for free. Good work by our scouts.

JJo may not be the shutdown, pro bowl corner he was when he first got here. But he's still a pretty good, above average corner. I fear most fans in here won't appreciate his play until he's gone.

Now despite my thoughts of him, I do agree he's most likely to be cut. He's no longer at the right value. I expect us to draft a corner in the first 3 rounds, and he'll split time with Bouye & Morris.

Whoever is opposite of KJ next season will be picked on a lot!

I wouldn't be surprised if Joseph took a pay cut to stay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's played an entire season in Houston without missing a game. He already got his payday from this team, and he enjoys playing with Kareem. I'm usually the type to value the business factors as primary in these situations, but he knows his best days are behind him, and he's happy in Houston. We'll see.

Neat fact: When researching Joseph's background, I found that his major was criminal justice.

Also, even if Joseph stays, I think we're still drafting a CB in the top three (My list: ILB, RT, CB).

steelbtexan
12-18-2014, 02:14 AM
Guys, mark my words. Right here. Bouye will be more than a solid player for us, if not straight up starter material.

No disrespect to Morris, but Bouye from the beginning of the season until now has already taken giant strides in what should be considered, really, his rookie season after injury in year one.

It's true that both Morris and Bouye went undrafted, and in that respect the Texans might have hit paydirt. We're talking Morris at age 24 and Bouye at 23.

At this point, yes, Bouye has been a liability in the tackling department in the open field, though even more injerous to the Texans has been a lack of a true safety. We have an aging one, sure. Otherwise, we have a couple of hard hitters. That's all.

In other words, I think this is the most taleneted group of CBs we've ever had.

Get us at least one good center fielder and we look a lot better out there (with or without JJo).

^^^^
This

Except I want Smith to re-sign Lewis. (Shouldn't be expensive.) I'm all for re-signing KJ if the $$$$ doesn't get crazy. Morris/Bouye/Rolle/Hal is good enough to cover against Luck etc....

What Smith really needs to do is invest most of his draft/FA capital on the offensive side of the ball.

Bulls on Parade
12-18-2014, 02:15 AM
I think we're still drafting a CB in the top three (My list: ILB, RT, CB).
Agreed. I'm with you on drafting a cornerback in the first, second or third round. Although I have hope that Brian Cushing is closer to 100 % in 2015 and Jadeveon Clowney (OLB) and Louis Nix III (NT) also add more muscle in our front seven. I'd rather draft a wide receiver and quarterback in the first three rounds as well. I'm not as worried about RT and ILB right now. We can draft one in the 4th or 5th round. Easier to target those positions in free agency or trades also.

JB
12-18-2014, 02:19 AM
I think we're still drafting a CB in the top three (My list: ILB, RT, CB).

I'll go with speedy WR, coverage ILB, and ball hawking FS

Bulls on Parade
12-18-2014, 02:25 AM
I'll go with speedy WR, coverage ILB, and ball hawking FS
I like that plan better if we feel like we have our quarterback of the future already in Tom Savage, Ryan Mallett or insert any trade target or free agent option quarterback that may become available. A ballhawking free safety is a nice luxury we haven't really had.

A solid young cover corner can likely help us defend T.Y. Hilton for many years to come. We're likely going to lose one, if not both, of our starting cornerbacks in Kareem Jackson and Johnathan Joseph. We can probably draft a cornerback and free safey in the 2015 draft. Probably two cornerbacks as I browse through our current roster. It depends who we lose in free agency.

I believe Brian Cushing and Max Bullough are both going to beast in 2015. Mercilus has become one heck of a player as well. i'm okay with the current linebackers we have now. Assuming they are healthy. Our defense is pretty damn good at the moment even with the injuries. But we still need more secondary help to become a dominating defense. We have enough horses in the front seven if Clowney and Nix III come back with a vengeance in 2015.

houstonspartan
12-18-2014, 02:30 AM
I like that plan better if we feel like we have our quarterback of the future already in Tom Savage, Ryan Mallett or insert any trade target or free agent option quarterback that may become available. A ballhawking free safety is a nice luxury we haven't really had.

A solid young cover corner can likely help us defend T.Y. Hilton for many years to come. We're likely going to lose one, if not both, of our starting cornerbacks in Kareem Jackson and Johnathan Joseph. We can probably draft a cornerback and free safey in the 2015 draft. Probably two cornerbacks as I browse through our current roster. It depends who we lose in free agency.

I believe Brian Cushing and Max Bullough are both going to beast in 2015. Mercilus has become one heck of a player as well. i'm okay with the current linebackers we have now. Assuming they are healthy. Our defense is pretty damn good at the moment even with the injuries. But we still need more secondary help to become a dominating defense. We have enough horses in the front seven if Clowney and Nix III come back with a vengeance in 2015.


Cushing is the very first person I'd cut the second our season is over.

steelbtexan
12-18-2014, 02:32 AM
I'll go with speedy WR, coverage ILB, and ball hawking FS

Great minds thinking alike.

Even if I had to trade back up into the 2nd to fill these 3 needs I would do it. My dream draft.

1.Thompson
2. Prewitt
2. Greene

If Rashad Greene is there at pick # 60 I hope Smith trades up. All of these guys are safe/huge upgrades.

Bulls on Parade
12-18-2014, 02:32 AM
Cushing is the very first person I'd cut the second our season is over.
Why? So he can sign with another team and become an all pro in 2015? It would be like losing Mario Williams and Connor Barwin. Both became amazing players, even better than what they were, after leaving the Texans. They won the AFC and NFC defensive players of the month for the Bills and Eagles for November I believe. We have to stay faithful to some of these guys. Don't allow the injuries to influence your thought process. We have to believe in Cushing, Clowney and Nix III going into 2015. We also have a ton of other young and talented linebackers. Our secondary has been exposed all season long. That's a problem we don't seem to have a quick fix to.

Bulls on Parade
12-18-2014, 02:43 AM
Heck, I'd be okay drafting a cornerback and free safety in the first two rounds. We can keep A.J. Bouye for depth but a starter he is not. Just the way A.J. Green ate him alive when the Bengals beat us, while he mockingly screamed out, "put another guy on me!" still makes my stomach hurt. I know it's hard to find a good shutdown cornerback. Our odds of finding one are better if we draft one in the first or second round. A good free safety, a ballhawking playmaker out there, would elevate our defensive backfield and take our defense to another level.

JB
12-18-2014, 03:05 AM
Great minds thinking alike.

Even if I had to trade back up into the 2nd to fill these 3 needs I would do it. My dream draft.

1.Thompson
2. Prewitt
2. Greene

If Rashad Greene is there at pick # 60 I hope Smith trades up. All of these guys are safe/huge upgrades.

That would be a dream draft :highfive:

thunderkyss
12-18-2014, 05:22 AM
I've always argued that KJ was being judged too harshly. During the "he sucks" phase of his career, all I ever said, was that he's making mistakes you'd expect a rookie to make on a historically bad defense making him look a lot worse than he really is.

I think he's come a long way, but he's a #2 corner at best. He's got the skills to be a shutdown corner, not going to make a lot of plays on the ball, but more of a Nmandi type, where you don't throw the ball his way, because his guy is covered.

However, he hasn't developed that way & I think he's taken a step away from that direction this year. Maybe it's the scheme, or another philosophy they've got going on back there, or whatever... but my point is that he's not a #1 corner, he shouldn't get #1 corner money (not that any one is saying he is)...

But most importantly, we shouldn't be looking forward to him in the backfield with guys like Bouye, Morris, Hal, unless you think they have what it takes to be better. #1 CB should still be on our list of needs, along with franchise QB, & play making ILB.

The main thing I didn't like about Dunta was how much "the fans" liked him & how content the Texans seem to be with him being our best corner. Without a doubt he was a good player, so is Kareem. Just not #1 corner.

xtruroyaltyx
12-18-2014, 08:36 AM
The season of that injury dunta was playing like a number corner.

houstonspartan
12-18-2014, 11:02 AM
Why? So he can sign with another team and become an all pro in 2015? It would be like losing Mario Williams and Connor Barwin. Both became amazing players, even better than what they were, after leaving the Texans. They won the AFC and NFC defensive players of the month for the Bills and Eagles for November I believe. We have to stay faithful to some of these guys. Don't allow the injuries to influence your thought process. We have to believe in Cushing, Clowney and Nix III going into 2015. We also have a ton of other young and talented linebackers. Our secondary has been exposed all season long. That's a problem we don't seem to have a quick fix to.

And don't allow emotion and sentiment to influence yours.

What you are saying is absurd.

Mario was not worth $100m when he was here. Ok, we finally grew up and a change of scene finally forced him to care about football, and he's doing well. Good for him. I wish him well; but, I'm glad we didn't keep him.

I like Connor Barwin as a person, but the guy was inconsistent and never really was the dominant player here that he could have been. If he's doing great in Philly, good for him. I wish him well.

And Cushing? Come on. There is a high probability that he will not become the same dominant player he once was. If he goes to another team and blows up, great. That would mean a change of scene would be good for him. But I would have no remorse about letting him go.

Regarding Clowney: You're right. I do believe in him. Still. He deserves a chance to prove he can come back from his injury and play. Same with Nix. I'm not adovcating getting rid of either of those guys.

What you are advocating is what has kept this team back for years: Hey, let's be loyal to our guys, regardless of performance! Let's sign them to massive contracts even though they don't deserve it!

No. We have to get away from that.

Cushing's gotta go.

Playoffs
12-18-2014, 11:35 AM
Bouye has had 3 good games... 2 of those were against the Colts.

austins23
12-18-2014, 11:55 AM
Bouye has had 3 good games... 2 of those were against the Colts.

The kid has played well. Beside the obvious hiccups a young CB will have, I thought he has played well. AJ Green beat him up BUT Green beats up a lot of seasoned CB's.

What about giving KJ a shot at Safety? Is he suited for that?

ChampionTexan
12-18-2014, 12:10 PM
The kid has played well. Beside the obvious hiccups a young CB will have, I thought he has played well. AJ Green beat him up BUT Green beats up a lot of seasoned CB's.

What about giving KJ a shot at Safety? Is he suited for that?

The franchise tag amount for safeties is about $3.4 million less than that for cornerbacks. Not that KJ's gonna get franchised, or get franchise money, but it's all relative, and if we're gonna make him a safety, we need to pay him safety money, and since we'll be competing with other teams willing to pay him starting cornerback money, attempting to re-sign him to play safety pretty much guarantees he'll be leaving.

austins23
12-18-2014, 12:31 PM
The franchise tag amount for safeties is about $3.4 million less than that for cornerbacks. Not that KJ's gonna get franchised, or get franchise money, but it's all relative, and if we're gonna make him a safety, we need to pay him safety money, and since we'll be competing with other teams willing to pay him starting cornerback money, attempting to re-sign him to play safety pretty much guarantees he'll be leaving.

And there you have it. Hadn't thought about the dollars and cents part of it.

amazing80
12-18-2014, 12:34 PM
I think Jackson is an ok number 2, but I have a feeling someone will over pay him and I hope it won't be us.

Playoffs
12-18-2014, 12:42 PM
What about giving KJ a shot at Safety? Is he suited for that?

KJ's highest/best use is as is -- a boundary CB who can slide into the slot. He'll get paid as a CB and there will be strong competition to sign him. Ravens, Jets, Jags, Bucs, Redskins, Titans to name a few.

BigBull17
12-18-2014, 03:53 PM
Cushing is the very first person I'd cut the second our season is over.

You save no money cutting him. Actually may cost money. May as well keep him.

Brisco_County
12-18-2014, 06:02 PM
Cushing is the very first person I'd cut the second our season is over.

You save no money cutting him. Actually may cost money. May as well keep him.

His knee was swelling halfway through the season, indicating that his injury was not 100% healed. He has always been the type to play hurt. I expect improvement from him after another offseason of recovery.

infantrycak
12-18-2014, 06:04 PM
His knee was swelling halfway through the season, indicating that his injury was not 100% healed. He has always been the type to play hurt. I expect improvement from him after another offseason of recovery.

That is my expectation as well. He was improving weekly and then swelled/drained and played through it.

Marshall
12-18-2014, 06:31 PM
His knee was swelling halfway through the season, indicating that his injury was not 100% healed. He has always been the type to play hurt. I expect improvement from him after another offseason of recovery.

If he can't perform due to injury, then we may get reimbursed by insurance for part of his salary. But I've never seen an adjustment to the cap. But the poster is correct in that it will cost $5.7M more to cut him than to keep him around.

I'm no doctor, but it does seem that SOME athletes come back strong after two or three years while some never get the chance.