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View Full Version : 3 & Out play analysis: Schaub to Keshawn Martin


GP
08-15-2012, 12:58 AM
This is that first drive of the Panthers preseason game. It's 2nd and 1 or 2...and Schaub has options. He has Foster in the middle, he has Graham down low, but he loves the matchup fuqq-up with Keshawn manned up vs. a LB!


SHOT 1: Is that a LINEBACKER On Keshawn? Thank you. May I Have Another?!?!

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/keshawn1.jpg



SHOT 2: Coverage Mixup, Due to OD, Gets Keshawn Wide Open

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/keshawn2.jpg



SHOT 3: 1. Secures The Catch, and 2. Plants And Cuts Away From Safety

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/keshawn3.jpg



EXTRA POINT: Schaub Had Options, Chose Deepest Available

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/xtra-point.jpg

GP
08-15-2012, 01:05 AM
I was most impressed by these two things:

1. Schaub sees the coverage SNAFU with the CB on OD and the LB on Keshawn. Schaub guesstimated that the CB might try to hand off the shallow route to the LB (which the CB did end up doing, btw) but that time Schaub and Keshawn would have already found the open window to exploit at just the right time. Schaub throws to empty green field, Keshawn goes and gets it.

2. Look, Jacoby Jones (God bless his heart) always seemed to be motoring up the field before securing the ball completely. But here, Keshawn is showing significant discipline--knowing he has a lot of territory open in front of him--so he faces the ball 100% and secures it with a perfect form (hands in the shape of a diamond and looking through the diamond all the way). He then has the quickness of both instinct AND athletic ability to sense the oncoming pressure, so he plants his foot (the shot doesn't do it justice!) immediately and cuts laterally across the field to stop the train wreck from happening.

Keshawn Martin and Matt Schaub are going to have a lot of fun this year.

Texn4life
08-15-2012, 01:07 AM
Looks like your basic Cover 3 coverage. Thats like taking candy from a baby. Too much space for the safety to come over and cover it in time.

thunderkyss
08-15-2012, 06:09 AM
We play this same defense at times. The biggest problem I see, is that 53 does not get deep enough. He doesn't have to "cover" KMart, it's a zone coverage. He just needs to get deep forcing Matt to have to get the ball up higher, but still drop it in before the safety.

With the LB not dropping deeper, it's an easy throw for Matt & has been an easy throw for all the young QBs that have played us in the past (Tebow). Our LBs rarely made the QB adjust their throw.

However, I have to give Kudos to Kubiak on this one. On 3rd & 2, of course the LB is going to cheat & play the shallow route.

Rey
08-15-2012, 09:32 AM
We play this same defense at times. The biggest problem I see, is that 53 does not get deep enough. He doesn't have to "cover" KMart, it's a zone coverage. He just needs to get deep forcing Matt to have to get the ball up higher, but still drop it in before the safety.

With the LB not dropping deeper, it's an easy throw for Matt & has been an easy throw for all the young QBs that have played us in the past (Tebow). Our LBs rarely made the QB adjust their throw.

However, I have to give Kudos to Kubiak on this one. On 3rd & 2, of course the LB is going to cheat & play the shallow route.

I agree with this.

Tough defense to play in that spot because you can't cover the deep and shallow stuff and there were multiple guys open.

The play also shows what separates Shaub from Joe average qb.

He sees it on time and releases a good ball on target to the wr.

The Pencil Neck
08-15-2012, 11:33 AM
Like others have said, this isn't a case of getting a linebacker manned up on Keshawn but a case of Keshawn getting to the right spot in the zone and Schaub accurately getting him the ball on time.

In a zone like this, there are usually going to be guys open. The QB has to find them and then get the ball to them before the defenders can close down on them. I think Keshawn does a good job of getting to where he's supposed to be. That's something a lot of rooks mess up and a lot of vet QBs will hesitate before making that throw to a rookie. You've got to trust the receiver because if he's in the wrong place, that's an interception that makes the QB look like an idiot.

EDIT: Oh, and part of finding the receiver is knowing before the ball is even snapped which guy is going to be open. Schaub read that zone early and was probably salivating as he dropped back.

dsorc
08-15-2012, 12:14 PM
I think this play is a good example of the value of versatility. Texans had a 2TE/1RB package so Carolina is in their base package to account for the possibility of a run. Both TEs lined up wide with Keshawn and Walter in the slot on a 4-WR look creating the mismatches and forcing zone. Schaub probably read the defense before the snap since one of the safeties is lining up over Walter and both CBs are stuck on the TEs. That's a clear pre-snap read of cover 3. Pretty much every receiver was wide open with the exception of maybe Walter. The defense was probably expecting run and the playcall won the play before the ball was even snapped.

P.S. I love these picture analyses.

Dutchrudder
08-15-2012, 12:17 PM
Foster looks like the best option in this sequence. Wide open on the first down line with nobody near him. Easy 1st if they go there, but get some extra yards by going to Kmart. 88 looks open too, or at least open enough to make a quick completion for the 1st.

The fact is, the Panthers defense was really bad last year, and it will only be marginally better this year. I wouldn't put too much stock in the offense's successes, because if this was the regular season, we could have hung 30 on them.

GP
08-15-2012, 01:42 PM
Like others have said, this isn't a case of getting a linebacker manned up on Keshawn but a case of Keshawn getting to the right spot in the zone and Schaub accurately getting him the ball on time

I think there was both at the same time, in fact...BECAUSE the CB chose to defend the TE (OD in this case) it left the LB to match up on Keshawn. A split second into the play, as the CB reads the TE staying put and WR chugging straight ahead on a fly, the CB points to the LB and motions him to take the TE...but it was too late because that slight hand-off to the LB opens the window for Keshawn to sit down in the open part of that zone.

Had the LB manned up on the TE, and the CB manned up on the WR, it could have been a different story. The TE should be covered by a LB anyways, unless the Panthers believed that what we were showing was not what was about to happen. It was, IMO, a risky pre-snap alignment out there by the CB and LB.

I think this play is a good example of the value of versatility. Texans had a 2TE/1RB package so Carolina is in their base package to account for the possibility of a run. Both TEs lined up wide with Keshawn and Walter in the slot on a 4-WR look creating the mismatches and forcing zone. Schaub probably read the defense before the snap since one of the safeties is lining up over Walter and both CBs are stuck on the TEs. That's a clear pre-snap read of cover 3. Pretty much every receiver was wide open with the exception of maybe Walter. The defense was probably expecting run and the playcall won the play before the ball was even snapped.

P.S. I love these picture analyses.

On the play itself, you are correct: Walter was the only man who was covered up (very well, btw) and had no shot at being targeted.

IMO, he was merely clearing out the space for Garrett Graham down at the bottom...and GG was wide open. The screen shot doesn't show just how open he was. There was nobody within 10 yards of him. The LBs were also too far away to grab Foster who was between 5 and 10 yards open himself. OD was open. Keshawn was open. Schaub decided to go to keshawn, IMO, when he saw that he had the matchup and IF the Panthers tried to hand off Keshawn to the CB...it was going to present an open window (which is what happened).

As PN said, both Keshawn AND Schaub recognized this and BOTH acted accordingly without much (if any) communication on it. It sends chills up my spine to think that this Keshawn Martin guy, a rookie, is operating on the same wave-length as Schaub this early and with THAT kind of success. It looks like Schaub and Martin have been playing toss and catch for years.

barrett
08-15-2012, 02:13 PM
I think this play is a good example of the value of versatility. Texans had a 2TE/1RB package so Carolina is in their base package to account for the possibility of a run. Both TEs lined up wide with Keshawn and Walter in the slot on a 4-WR look creating the mismatches and forcing zone. Schaub probably read the defense before the snap since one of the safeties is lining up over Walter and both CBs are stuck on the TEs. That's a clear pre-snap read of cover 3. Pretty much every receiver was wide open with the exception of maybe Walter. The defense was probably expecting run and the playcall won the play before the ball was even snapped.

P.S. I love these picture analyses.

This is what makes our offense virtually undefendable. Why Matt Schaub is extremely important to our success going forward. So much of this offense is determined by the pre-snap reads. Kubiak says it all the time, the defense dictates where the ball goes. There's always someone open on every play. Having a QB who can know where that will most likely be, prior to the snap is a massive advantage.

Schaub makes very few mistakes. What many don't realize about him that aspect of his game is on par with the top 4 QB's in the league. He rarely makes mistakes. That gives us the best chance to win on Sunday's.

b0ng
08-15-2012, 03:01 PM
Not going to lie Martin is getting me pretty excited for this year.

thunderkyss
08-15-2012, 03:45 PM
...BECAUSE the CB chose to defend the TE (OD in this case) it left the LB to match up on Keshawn.

I don't know that the CB chose to defend the TE. As been said before, we came out with 2 TEs, 2 WR, & 1 back..... it's 3rd & 2, the defense is going to think run. So they call their play (which in this case looked like cover 3 man under) before our team gets to the line.

Then they realize, the WRs are playing inside & the TEs are split wide. Had this been a man coverage... where the CB gets to "decide" who he will defend, they would have lined up on the WR regardless where they lined up. Putting LBs on our TEs in the open space like that, is even more of a mis-match than what we ended up with.

& again, the LB in this instance was not "matched up" against anyone. He was responsible for a zone. His job is to read the QB/the route & squeeze that zone as tight as possible. He read it wrong... sort of.

Had the LB manned up on the TE, and the CB manned up on the WR, it could have been a different story. The TE should be covered by a LB anyways, unless the Panthers believed that what we were showing was not what was about to happen. It was, IMO, a risky pre-snap alignment out there by the CB and LB.

Being that it was 3rd & 2 this is about as conservative a play you can get (as long as you have receivers (WR, TE, RBs, etc...) you can trust. If they decided to play man to man, there's no way a LB could cover TEs like ours (who are overweight WRs more than they are TEs) in that much open space. That may have been the ideal situation. LBs aren't built or trained to cover in space like that.

The LBs were also too far away to grab Foster who was between 5 and 10 yards open himself. OD was open. Keshawn was open. Schaub decided to go to keshawn, IMO, when he saw that he had the matchup and IF the Panthers tried to hand off Keshawn to the CB...it was going to present an open window (which is what happened).

In my opinion, you know you got it good, when your QB is no longer looking at his receivers. After being in the system for a while, throwing to the same guys for a while, he should be able to anticipate where they are going to be.

Advanced QBing in the NFL, is about recognizing & reading the defense. In a play like this, Schaub should have recognized the coverage pre-snap & determined where his best opportunities are, considering the situation, the personnel, & the play called.

We don't audible, because there is enough going on in anyone play, where we should be able to take advantage of any situation. QBs make decisions, WRs make decisions, OL... etc... so when we're on the same page, we should be nigh unstoppable.

But in this situation, once Matt recognized the coverage, his focus should have been on 53. He knows what KMart is going to do. He knows what Foster is going to do. He knows those two routes are going to make 53 make a decision, & neither was going to work out for him. If he'd have stretched his zone, to squeeze Keyshawn's route, the ball would have been dropped off to Foster the play-maker, with 8 yards of open space around him. If he decided to squeeze Foster's route, KMart was going to do his thang... it was a no win situation.

As PN said, both Keshawn AND Schaub recognized this and BOTH acted accordingly without much (if any) communication on it. It sends chills up my spine to think that this Keshawn Martin guy, a rookie, is operating on the same wave-length as Schaub this early and with THAT kind of success. It looks like Schaub and Martin have been playing toss and catch for years.

I'm impressed as well, but I'm not sure of any wavelengths being shared. It's great that Matt has confidence that Keyshawn was going to be where he was supposed to be. There wasn't a whole lot to that route... looked like a skinny post. If Keyshawn stumbled, slept, or pulled up, it was going right to the safety.

The main thing for a young receiver who gets a free release like that, is to expect the ball to come to you, so you better get where you want to get.

Sitting in the stands with our old QB, I got the feeling that the WRs didn't feel the ball was ever going to go their way. Play after play they would sprint 20-40 yards down the field & there was either a dump off, a sack, or a poor decision to run the ball out of bounds for no gain (sometimes a loss). Then eventually the ball would go deep, but the WRs weren't running the way they were earlier in the game so there were a lot of incompletions.

But anyway, yeah I'm glad to see there is trust there between Matt & Martin.