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View Full Version : GP Play Breakdown: Butler's Whiff on 3rd & Goal


GP
08-14-2012, 09:57 PM
In my boredom, I re-watched the Texans-Panthers preseason game. The first drive, we had good movement down the field. On 1st and goal, Tate ran nicely to the right side and got us to about the 2. On 2nd down, the LBs stuffed Tate at about the 2. On 3rd down, Schaub threw the ball away...but we were going to score a TD via Schaub-OD had Butler not missed his block at the snap. Here it is in full screenshot glory.

SHOT 1: OD Sets Up His Man, But Butler Whiffs At The Snap...

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/Bad-Block.jpg


SHOT 2: Schaub's Spidey Sense Tingles; He Know's He's In Trouble...

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/Schauby-Sense.jpg


SHOT 3: OD Ends Up At The X, Wide Open. Butler Throws A Picnic...

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/Picnic.jpg

GP
08-14-2012, 10:01 PM
The screen shot does not do it justice how open OD became. Trust me, he had turned the LB around (beautifully) on a stutter step and then hook/curl that crossed up the LB perfectly...and OD ends up being a few steps into the open.

However, because Butler threw a quick low block...and missed...the defender bull-rushed Schaub and made him drop too far back to let the play develop as it was unfolding, naturally, just like it was drawn up to do.

It also wasn't a situation of OD adapting to try and help Schaub...OD's back was to Schaub the whole time, and OD was maneuvering methodically and got open perfectly. It was going to be one of those typical Schaub-OD toss and catch TD plays.

MINOR NOTE: Keshawn Martin was at bottom of screen, and he has being held very blatantly the whole time...though I don't know if the 5-yard "jam rule" is what saved the DB from getting flagged thereof not. Keshawn almost got open, too, but OD was the primary target there.

Fili
08-14-2012, 10:25 PM
I remember this play. I was wondering how the o-line just collapsed all of a sudden. You can tell that the Carolina's d-line was prepared for the chop block and just side-stepped which isn't too difficult to do.

The Pencil Neck
08-14-2012, 10:33 PM
If you'll notice, both tackles missed their blocks on that play.

badboy
08-14-2012, 10:36 PM
Not a fan of what we called a rolling knee block in junior high. Why not stand up at 6'4" 317 and do a decent block at goal line?

The Pencil Neck
08-14-2012, 10:37 PM
Not a fan of what we called a rolling knee block in junior high. Why not stand up at 6'4" 317 and do a decent block at goal line?

Trying to get the DEs hands down so Schaub has an easier time with the quick throw.

Playoffs
08-14-2012, 10:43 PM
Love the visual aids! :lol:

GP
08-14-2012, 11:12 PM
Trying to get the DEs hands down so Schaub has an easier time with the quick throw.

That was my guess, as well (glad someone else actually mentioned it).

That play looked designed to go to OD, so it makes sense for Butler to lay out the DE and get him down instead of possibly letting him jump and bat the ball down.

That's still a risky call, IMO, because Butler has to 100% get that DE onto the ground AND have him there long enough for the play to develop for Schaub to have time to throw the ball.

GP
08-14-2012, 11:13 PM
Love the visual aids! :lol:

Thanks!

I won't make it a habit to use comedy in the 3 & Out Play Analysis screenshots I do. After all, not everything provides a stage for comedy. But Butler being on the ground for every screenshot...and Schaub having an "Oh ****!" moment was too rich to pass up right there.

Dutchrudder
08-14-2012, 11:26 PM
SHOT 3: OD Ends Up At The X, Wide Open. Butler Throws A Picnic...

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/Picnic.jpg

lol... msr...

EllisUnit
08-14-2012, 11:26 PM
If you'll notice, both tackles missed their blocks on that play.

haha yeah both tackles missed their blocks. Dont see that everyday !

GP
08-15-2012, 12:21 AM
If you'll notice, both tackles missed their blocks on that play.

Yep!!!! I missed that, PN!

OK, that situation has to be addressed by Kubiak. We cannot have teams knowing that our two Tackles are going to throw low blocks on certain down & distance or certain packages. If this is a habit and the Panthers were wise to it, then it has to be fixed. Right?

I thought maybe Butler freestyled it there and chose to do that. But with Brown doing it, as well, then it has to be by design for that particular play. Which means there are certain pass plays requiring clear lanes for Schaub's passes (though maybe ALL of Schaub's passes need a 'clear lane' now that I think about it).

Brisco_County
08-15-2012, 12:37 AM
SHOT 3: OD Ends Up At The X, Wide Open. Butler Throws A Picnic...

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t128/gpshafer_1976/Picnic.jpg

This looks strangely like an Ultima Online version of Texans football.

Good post, GP.

Rey
08-15-2012, 12:41 AM
Normally when o linemen cut block on a passing play the throw us supposed to come out quick. The block isn't meant to really cut the players, but instead make the d linemen put their hands down so the qb has a quick lane to throw in.

Butler and brown both cut blocking tells me that the throw was supposed to come out quick, but schaub probably didn't like what he saw coverage wise.

Brown and butler did nothing wrong there IMO.

Well, maybe butler can be more athletic and get up faster, but they were ok there.

thunderkyss
08-15-2012, 12:44 AM
We're not trying to pretend that Winston never whiffed are we?

Or that the defensive guys get paid as well? These things happen, what we hope for, is that it doesn't happen often. Or that any scrub will make our guys look like this.

It would also be nice if we had a play-maker at QB, one that can salvage this situation.

thunderkyss
08-15-2012, 12:51 AM
Normally when o linemen cut block on a passing play the throw us supposed to come out quick. The block isn't meant to really cut the players, but instead make the d linemen put their hands down so the qb has a quick lane to throw in.

Butler and brown both cut blocking tells me that the throw was supposed to come out quick, but schaub probably didn't like what he saw coverage wise.


looks like the defense was expecting a quick play as they put a body on all our receivers..... 5 yards & everything.

Wolf6151
08-15-2012, 02:01 AM
If you'll notice, both tackles missed their blocks on that play.

GP, thanks for the visual aids. TPN, good eye noticing both missed blocks. This was obviously a designed play/blocking scheme that failed on this play. The important thing is that coaches and players learn from it and hopefully don't repeat this mistake. That's why it's preseason, time to learn. All the rookies will learn so much more this week in practice than they did the last few weeks of training camp because they now have a point of reference/game from which to draw upon, they should all learn why something is done now. Great learning experience. Let's hope everything looks sharper against the 49'rs.

76Texan
08-15-2012, 05:17 AM
Normally when o linemen cut block on a passing play the throw us supposed to come out quick. The block isn't meant to really cut the players, but instead make the d linemen put their hands down so the qb has a quick lane to throw in.

Butler and brown both cut blocking tells me that the throw was supposed to come out quick, but schaub probably didn't like what he saw coverage wise.

Brown and butler did nothing wrong there IMO.

Well, maybe butler can be more athletic and get up faster, but they were ok there.

^^^ This.

Allstar
08-15-2012, 06:07 AM
Normally when o linemen cut block on a passing play the throw us supposed to come out quick. The block isn't meant to really cut the players, but instead make the d linemen put their hands down so the qb has a quick lane to throw in.

Butler and brown both cut blocking tells me that the throw was supposed to come out quick, but schaub probably didn't like what he saw coverage wise.

Brown and butler did nothing wrong there IMO.

Well, maybe butler can be more athletic and get up faster, but they were ok there.

Great take.

TejasTom
08-15-2012, 07:40 AM
lol... msr...

Love the picnic. MSR for me too.

The Pencil Neck
08-15-2012, 11:22 AM
Normally when o linemen cut block on a passing play the throw us supposed to come out quick. The block isn't meant to really cut the players, but instead make the d linemen put their hands down so the qb has a quick lane to throw in.

Butler and brown both cut blocking tells me that the throw was supposed to come out quick, but schaub probably didn't like what he saw coverage wise.

Brown and butler did nothing wrong there IMO.

Well, maybe butler can be more athletic and get up faster, but they were ok there.

^^^ This. Although I would have liked to have gotten a little better production from those cut blocks -- the guys slowed up a little more or a little closer to the ground.

Judging from where Schaub is looking and considering how quick that throw needed to be, he was probably going to the receiver at the top of the screen but didn't see him as open. OR, he was looking off the safety before going to one of the receivers at the bottom of the screen and those guys were covered at the time he needs to throw the ball.

I think OD was a secondary receiver but Matt didn't have time to find him.

Dutchrudder
08-16-2012, 12:31 AM
Brown got his man, you can't see it in the pics GP snapped, but here's an animation of it.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr14/themishkin/Sports/My%20Gifs/texans2.gif


Butler was essentially a speed bump that the defender was able to avoid. He still slowed him down, but not as much as you want in a cut block. I also noticed that they both cut at the same time, yet Brown is standing up before Butler even begins to get up. He lacks discipline! :)

infantrycak
08-16-2012, 12:40 AM
Butler was essentially a speed bump that the defender was able to avoid. He still slowed him down, but not as much as you want in a cut block. I also noticed that they both cut at the same time, yet Brown is standing up before Butler even begins to get up. He lacks discipline! :)

Butler needs to commit more there. Brown actually goes down but delays his guy with an arm. Butler just kind of flops. He needs to do more than just lay in front of someone.

Lots of sorority girls have tried that and it doesn't end up with rings.

Rey
08-16-2012, 03:08 AM
Butler did his job there. It wasn't pretty but he got the defender to bend down to fend off the cut or whatever you want to call it.

I don't expect him to be as good as Duane brown because he isn't as good as Duane brown.

If someone has an issue with this play they should take it up with kubiak because the line did their job but no one was open or atleast Matt didn't feel they were open.

Ball should have come out well before the ends got up field and were able to put pressure on schaub.

It didn't and schaub did the smart thing and got rid of it. This is one of those plays where the o line group in film session takes a quick look and fast forwards to the next play.

Really not a lot of drastic coaching to do there.

thunderkyss
08-16-2012, 03:33 AM
...because the line did their job but no one was open or atleast Matt didn't feel they were open.

Ball should have come out well before the ends got up field and were able to put pressure on schaub.

It didn't and schaub did the smart thing and got rid of it. This is one of those plays...

This is one of those plays where a Ben Rothlisbergers or Eli Manning would make something happen. Sure there is the possibility they could Romo it. But they didn't give up on the play & they have both rung up wins & Super Bowls because of it.

Matt isn't as athletic as those guys, I understand that. But he's going to have to find another way to make up for that. He isn't athletic like Ben or Eli, he doesn't have a rocket laser arm like Peyton or Rogers & he ain't Tom Brady.

The Medic01
08-16-2012, 08:17 AM
This is one of those plays where a Ben Rothlisbergers or Eli Manning would make something happen. Sure there is the possibility they could Romo it. But they didn't give up on the play & they have both rung up wins & Super Bowls because of it.

Matt isn't as athletic as those guys, I understand that. But he's going to have to find another way to make up for that. He isn't athletic like Ben or Eli, he doesn't have a rocket laser arm like Peyton or Rogers & he ain't Tom Brady.

Wow thanks Captain Obvious.

76Texan
08-18-2012, 12:56 PM
Butler did his job there. It wasn't pretty but he got the defender to bend down to fend off the cut or whatever you want to call it.

I don't expect him to be as good as Duane brown because he isn't as good as Duane brown.

If someone has an issue with this play they should take it up with kubiak because the line did their job but no one was open or atleast Matt didn't feel they were open.

Ball should have come out well before the ends got up field and were able to put pressure on schaub.

It didn't and schaub did the smart thing and got rid of it. This is one of those plays where the o line group in film session takes a quick look and fast forwards to the next play.

Really not a lot of drastic coaching to do there.

Both Butler and Brown used the same technique on the first offensive play for the Texans.

It resulted in a quick pass to Walter in the flat for an 8yd gain.

Butler's cut block was better on that play, but his block on the goal line would have been enough for Schaub to complete the pass to Walter just the same.

So yeah, there's nothing wrong with Butler doing his job.