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Corrosion
08-13-2012, 12:02 PM
Post your opening day 53 man roster prediction here.

With the discussion in the Trycycle Holliday thread and how other positions may affect his chances as well as others , its time to start a final roster thread.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2012, 12:08 PM
This is a tough call at this point. We've got some pretty epic battles going on: at RB, at WR, Trindon, LB. Even Beck made a pretty good argument for making the squad in that first game.

Corrosion
08-13-2012, 12:14 PM
This is a tough call at this point. We've got some pretty epic battles going on: at RB, at WR, Trindon, LB. Even Beck made a pretty good argument for making the squad in that first game.

I dont disagree , just think its worth throwing it out there , we can always change our minds as time goes on.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2012, 12:29 PM
QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck -- Keenum on PS
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett -- Try to get Grimes on PS
FB: Casey, Norris
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey
TE: OD, GG, Brock
LT: DB, Butler
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Newton

DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl, Fangupo
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael, Ball
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

LS: Weeks
P: Jones
K: Bullock

---
The guys I think are borderline are Ball, Fangupo, Brock, and Norris.

Rey
08-13-2012, 12:45 PM
QB: Schaub, Yates
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett, Grimes
FB: Casey, Smith
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey, Trindon
TE: OD, GG
LT: DB
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Butler, Newton

DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl, Fangupo
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus, Nading
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

LS: Weeks
P: Jones
K: Bullock



Notable Practice Squad players: Megget, Keenum, Louiseau, Keo, Pleasant, Mondek, Mario Louis, Logan Brock

infantrycak
08-13-2012, 01:02 PM
Notable Practice Squad players: Megget, Keenum, Louiseau, Keo, Pleasant, Mondek, Mario Louis, Logan Brock

Believe Keo was on the active roster for too many games (10) last year to be ps eligible.

Dutchrudder
08-13-2012, 01:03 PM
Ok, well getting to 55 is easy, it's those last two that make it tough. I think Holliday can make this team if he plays error free through the preseason. He obviously has the acceleration and straight-line speed needed to be a great kick returner, but he can't make mistakes like he did last preseason. I'm giving him the WR #6 spot in my 53 man roster instead of Bryant Johnson. He's certainly worth that much if we carry 6 WRs.

I have it split evenly 25 offense, 25 defense, 3 STs players.

QB Matt Schaub - T.J. Yates - John Beck

RB Arian Foster - Ben Tate - Justin Forsett

FB James Casey - -

TE Owen Daniels - Garrett Graham -

LT Duane Brown - Andrew Gardner -

LG Wade Smith - Kasey Studdard -

C Chris Myers - Ben Jones -

RG Antoine Caldwell - Brandon Brooks -

RT Rashad Butler - Derek Newton -

WR1 Andre Johnson - Keshawn Martin - Lestar Jean

WR2 Kevin Walter - DeVier Posey - Trindon Holliday

DE J.J. Watt - Tim Jamison -

DT Shaun Cody - Earl Mitchell - Ra'Shon Harris

DE Antonio Smith - Jared Crick -

SLB Brooks Reed - Bryan Braman - Jesse Nading

ILB Brian Cushing - Mister Alexander -

ILB Bradie James - Tim Dobbins -

WLB Connor Barwin - Whitney Mercilus -

LCB Kareem Jackson - Alan Ball - Brandon Harris

RCB Johnathan Joseph - Brice McCain -

SS Danieal Manning - Quintin Demps -

FS Glover Quin - Troy Nolan -

LS Jon Weeks

K Randy Bullock

P Dahnte Jones

Offense: 25
Defense: 25
Special Teams: 3

Total: 53



Practice squad
1 QB Case Keenum
2 SS Shiloh Keo
3 WR Jeff Maehl
4 RB Jonathan Grimes
5 CB Roc Carmichael
6 OT Nick Mondek
7 OG Thomas Austin
8 LB Shawn Loiseau

If anyone wants a Google spreadsheet with all the players, here's a link to mine: LINK (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AscQRwKjB5B9dGNQSmwtRVlpdE4zazAxV2Frb0ZNZ lE).

I leave the 90 man roster on the first sheet and copy the players to the second, then delete the names I don't want. The functions at the bottom of the second page add up the players in each column to help keep track of the numbers. Just make sure you copy everything into the right column/row and it will work fine.

Rey
08-13-2012, 01:06 PM
Believe Keo was on the active roster for too many games (10) last year to be ps eligible.

Dang....I didn't realize he was on the active roster for that many games....

drs23
08-13-2012, 01:33 PM
I cheated and used TPN's roster as a template and added my changes. I'm glad we get to leave this fluid as I'll be changing my mind time and again. :)

QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett
FB: Casey, Norris
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey
TE: OD, GG, (Casey)
LT: DB, Newton (swing)
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Butler, Newton (swing)

DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl, Ra'Shon Harris
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael, T. Williams
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

LS: Weeks
P: Jones
K: Bullock
PR/KR: Holliday :whip:

PS: Case Keenum, Davin Megget, Loni Fangupo, Eddie Pleasent, D.J. Bryant, Shawn Loiseau, Derrell Smith, Nick Mondek

Ghost IR :D: Grimes

speedfreek
08-13-2012, 02:46 PM
Keenum makes the 53-man over Beck.

If Schaub is healthy, Beck can be released. He's not a valuable asset to anyone else. If Schaub is injured during the regular season, Beck will still be on the street for re-hire. You put Keenum on the practice squad, and he will be a Packer or Viking, etc. etc.

Everyone has seen two years of Beck and knows what his limits are when the excrement hits the impeller (and you're in a regular season game). Keenum, at this point, has a much higher "potential" ceiling..

TJ

drs23
08-13-2012, 03:35 PM
Keenum makes the 53-man over Beck.

If Schaub is healthy, Beck can be released. He's not a valuable asset to anyone else. If Schaub is injured during the regular season, Beck will still be on the street for re-hire. You put Keenum on the practice squad, and he will be a Packer or Viking, etc. etc.

Everyone has seen two years of Beck and knows what his limits are when the excrement hits the impeller (and you're in a regular season game). Keenum, at this point, has a much higher "potential" ceiling..

TJ

I tend to agree. I was trying to put my HC Kubiak hat on. I can see Case being the third as well but Kubiak stated he was pleased with the way Beck played. A couple of weeks from now we'll know. 2 1/2 weeks, tops.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2012, 03:50 PM
Right now, I've got Beck ahead of Keenum.

Prior to TC, I said that Beck only gets on the 53 if Keenum either stinks it up OR Matt goes down.

At this point, though, I think Beck's got a better control of the offense than Keenum. Keenum's going to have to kill it to make the 53. I expect him to go to the PS.

utahmark
08-13-2012, 03:58 PM
Keenum makes the 53-man over Beck.

If Schaub is healthy, Beck can be released. He's not a valuable asset to anyone else. If Schaub is injured during the regular season, Beck will still be on the street for re-hire. You put Keenum on the practice squad, and he will be a Packer or Viking, etc. etc.

Everyone has seen two years of Beck and knows what his limits are when the excrement hits the impeller (and you're in a regular season game). Keenum, at this point, has a much higher "potential" ceiling..

TJ

I'm not sure teams see him as having a high ceiling. He was'nt drafted. If some team has an injury or two at qb you don't go and get the undrafted rookie, you go after the mediocre backup with some experience.

SteveSlaton20
08-13-2012, 07:29 PM
QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett
FB: Casey, Norris
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey
TE: OD, GGraham
LT: DB, Butler
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Newton

DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl, Fangupo
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, McManis, Carmichael
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

LS: Weeks
K/PR: Holliday
P: Jones
K: Bullock

GP
08-13-2012, 07:36 PM
Bolded players have descriptions of why I chose them over other players.

QB: Schaub, Yates, KEENUM
RB: Foster, Tate, GRIMES
FB: Casey, NORRIS
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey
TE: OD, GG, (Casey)
LT: DB, Newton (swing)
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Butler, Newton (swing)

WHY KEENUM:
In the end, Kubiak will go with Keenum on the active 53. After last year's situation of being short on QBs...with how TJ rose the occasion as a rookie wet-behind-the-ear, Kubiak will want Keenum on the active 53 to become as ready as Keenum can be IF he is needed.

WHY GRIMES:
The guy is electric. Forsett might have the early lead, but as preseason progress, I think Grimes impresses so much that he cannot be denied a roster spot. With veterans like Tate and Foster ahead of him, Grimes is a rookie who can sit and watch and might get reps in certain situations. I like the guy.

WHY NORRIS:
I cannot see Kubiak relying on a FB like Smith--new to the position--when so much is needed this season from the FB position. Norris is not a world beater at his age, but he is going to be battle-tested and that's what Kubiak needs: A guy who has seen it all, and is reliable every time out of the gate.


DE: Smith, Watt, JAMISON or CRICK
NT: Cody, Earl, Ra'Shon Harris
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, LOISEAU or ALEXANDER
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael, McManis
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

DE CHOICE:
If Crick struggles with injuries, he'll get cut. Period. Preseason is about reps, and Crick is that ghost I.R. just waiting to happen...then he comes back next year and gets another crack at it with us. Jamison has the lead, IMO.

ILB CHOICE:
Loiseau has a shot if he performs in preseason and shows ST skills, too. I think Alexander has the lead here, but Loiseau has that "it" factor that might be too hard to resist by Wade Phillips

LS: Weeks
P: Jones
K: GRAHAM
PR/KR: HOLLIDAY

WHY GRAHAM:
Like I stated with the FB choice, I just do not think Gary Kubiak can let the 2012 season's kicker job rest upon a rookie. If that rookie spirals out of control early on, he's done. We're done. It can be so disastrous for a well-built team to watch a field goal kicker shank kicks and possibly lose games. If somebody claims him, fine. But Graham should get the nod IF he performs solidly in camp. Go with the veteran on something this big.

WHY HOLLIDAY:
I don't really like it, but it will end up happening. Kubiak will not want a quality Safety like D. Manning risking himself on return duties in 2012.

speedfreek
08-13-2012, 07:40 PM
I'm not sure teams see him as having a high ceiling. He was'nt drafted. If some team has an injury or two at qb you don't go and get the undrafted rookie, you go after the mediocre backup with some experience.

Keenum had other offers as an UDFA and chose the Texans.
I didn't see anyone other than us clamouring for Beck.

You only put Keenum on the practice squad if you think he can't play, because if you do -- he's gone..

TJ

b0ng
08-13-2012, 11:44 PM
Keenum had other offers as an UDFA and chose the Texans.
I didn't see anyone other than us clamouring for Beck.

You only put Keenum on the practice squad if you think he can't play, because if you do -- he's gone..

TJ

Case Keenum will not be on a 53 man roster in week 1.

infantrycak
08-13-2012, 11:50 PM
Case Keenum will not be on a 53 man roster in week 1.

There is another financial aspect here. Beck has enough years in the league such that if he is on the roster on day 1 then his full salary becomes guaranteed. Hire him on day 2 and nothing is guaranteed.

The Pencil Neck
08-14-2012, 12:48 AM
There is another financial aspect here. Beck has enough years in the league such that if he is on the roster on day 1 then his full salary becomes guaranteed. Hire him on day 2 and nothing is guaranteed.

Damn.

They just have to go and make stuff even more complicated.

Wolf6151
08-14-2012, 02:57 AM
I wonder if we could save a roster spot by teaching Ben Jones-C to do the long snapping. He's going to be on the roster as backup Center, why not have him take care of the long snapping duties and save a valuable roster spot. In the past a long snapper was needed because a team didn't want to risk injury to a starting Center playing on special teams. But since the rule changes a few years ago about not letting a defense line up over the top of the Center on special teams plays and just crush the guy, you don't see injuries to Centers on special teams that much anymore. It would also allow Ben Jones to add a skill and get a little playing time.

Rey
08-14-2012, 07:57 AM
I wonder if we could save a roster spot by teaching Ben Jones-C to do the long snapping.

Doubtful.

The texans love the long snappers consistency. He gets the ball back fast and accurately.

Plus if I'm not mistaken they just quietly re upped him.

The LS is here to stay.

Rey
08-14-2012, 08:03 AM
At this point, though, I think Beck's got a better control of the offense than Keenum. Keenum's going to have to kill it to make the 53. I expect him to go to the PS.

I need to see more from Keenum to make that connection. That would seem logical as beck is a vet and has played in a similar situation, but Keenum only threw 3 passes and connected on 2 of them for about 30 yards.

To me, beck looks like a wild horse out there.

Rey
08-14-2012, 08:13 AM
Keenum had other offers as an UDFA and chose the Texans.
I didn't see anyone other than us clamouring for Beck.

You only put Keenum on the practice squad if you think he can't play, because if you do -- he's gone..

TJ

I don't agree with that. I think udfa and late round qb's are among the least likely to get poached off of practice squads.

Not too many teams are going to take an undrafted qb they have to put on their 53 man roster that has not spent any time in their system and doesn't know anything about their playbook.

Dutchrudder
08-14-2012, 08:38 AM
I don't agree with that. I think udfa and late round qb's are among the least likely to get poached off of practice squads.

Not too many teams are going to take an undrafted qb they have to put on their 53 man roster that has not spent any time in their system and doesn't know anything about their playbook.

Well, he won't get poached to start, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Titans pick him up in week 3 so he can tell them all of our secrets on offense.

Rey
08-14-2012, 08:51 AM
Well, he won't get poached to start, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Titans pick him up in week 3 so he can tell them all of our secrets on offense.

All of our secrets?

The other day Yates said he spent his whole first year just trying to learn the playbook and he's still learning.

You think the titans are going to cut one of their guys to add an udfa qb that's only been here a few months to gain an upperhand in what makes us tick?

Case probably barely understands everything we do himself. Bruce Matthews probably knows more than he does about what we do.

Maybe they are dumb enough to do that. I dunno.

I think they'd be more likely to grab one of the rb's we cut.

Corrosion
08-14-2012, 09:03 AM
Doubtful.

The texans love the long snappers consistency. He gets the ball back fast and accurately.

Plus if I'm not mistaken they just quietly re upped him.

The LS is here to stay.

I agree - Weeks isnt going anywhere , they will carry three specialists not counting PR/KR with kicker , punter and long snapper. Trycycle is a wildcard at this point.



I need to see more from Keenum to make that connection. That would seem logical as beck is a vet and has played in a similar situation, but Keenum only threw 3 passes and connected on 2 of them for about 30 yards.

To me, beck looks like a wild horse out there.

I dont think Beck makes the roster ... and Keenum will be on the PS unless he just blows it up. Neither bothers me much because Im comfortable with Schaub and Yates going forward , if they both go down ..... Keenum can just be brought back off the PS as I dont see a team signing him for the season - He did go undrafted and was seen as a system QB. I think he could be an NFL QB but the perception is what it is - system QB.

Also , he can do from the PS the same job he does while on the roster running the scout team and whatnot.



One of my biggest questions going forward is what they do with Hartmann once he is elegible .... Kubiak has raved about how well Donnie Jones has handled the holders job and he has been solid punting. That suspension could have cost Hartmann his roster spot.

Dutchrudder
08-14-2012, 09:40 AM
Donnie Jones was alright against the Panthers. He had two punts for 45 yards from LOS to touchdown, and one that went out of bounds for 37 yards. 2/3 is OK, but the ~45 yard distance is what Coach Joe has always wanted in his punters. Turk was a solid ~42 yard guy when he didn't shank it off the side of his foot. Joe prefers to kick it about that far so the coverage team can get down there and tackle the return man before he can go anywhere, which is a conservative strategy. Nothing wrong with that, I expect Jones to be fine when the regular season comes.

GP
08-14-2012, 09:52 AM
I need to see more from Keenum to make that connection. That would seem logical as beck is a vet and has played in a similar situation, but Keenum only threw 3 passes and connected on 2 of them for about 30 yards.

To me, beck looks like a wild horse out there.

His first pass was an incompletion and looked like he was just anxious.

The two completions were on the money and looked like a QB who was decisive and deadly accurate.

The way he sold the play action bootleg was, well...it was THE best sales job of play action I've ever seen. His balance, mobility, head movement as he swung around, it was perfect...and the blitzing defender fell for it hardcore.

GP
08-14-2012, 09:55 AM
Beck is QB3 out of respect for him being a veteran out there. No way Kubiak would have Case over Beck.

But when cuts are made, I just think Kubiak knows that Case is a TJ Yates kind if QB.

I happen to think, and I know it's early, but I think Case is legit. I think he has the tools to be the guy here.

The Pencil Neck
08-14-2012, 10:19 AM
His first pass was an incompletion and looked like he was just anxious.

The two completions were on the money and looked like a QB who was decisive and deadly accurate.

The way he sold the play action bootleg was, well...it was THE best sales job of play action I've ever seen. His balance, mobility, head movement as he swung around, it was perfect...and the blitzing defender fell for it hardcore.

Whenever anyone starts talking about a rookie QB giving the best play action fake EVAR, you can be pretty sure that they're over-reacting and possibly seeing the kid through rose-colored glasses. When you really, really want some guy to be great, it's easy to let your heart work its way into your eyes. And I think some of us are doing that with both TJ and Case.

They've both got the potential to be great QBs but they've both got a long way to go.

For me at this moment in time, Beck knows this offense better than Case does. He probably knows some of it better than TJ does because he's been in a variation of it for a few years now and has had more time in it. That doesn't mean he's a better QB than TJ or Case, just that he knows the offense. And with Kubiak, that means a helluva lot.

So if the season started right now, I think Kubiak would go with 3 QBs on the roster. He'd choose the 3 guys he thinks knows the offense best. He'd stash Case on the PS so he could get more time to work on his fundamentals and more time to learn the offense.

Dutchrudder
08-14-2012, 10:29 AM
I thought Case played rather poorly, but then again I didn't go to U of H. He dropped back, what 7 times? Threw 3 times, ran it twice and got sacked twice. Both of his completions were less than 10 yards from the LOS. Nothing really compelling IMO. P-squad material, let him develop this year and give him a shot at the #3 spot next year.

beerlover
08-14-2012, 10:30 AM
I thought Case played rather poorly, but then again I didn't go to U of H. He dropped back, what 7 times? Threw 3 times, ran it twice and got sacked twice. Both of his completions were less than 10 yards from the LOS. Nothing really compelling IMO. P-squad material, let him develop this year and give him a shot at the #3 spot next year.

yep, will wind up on p/s.

Rey
08-14-2012, 10:38 AM
So if the season started right now, I think Kubiak would go with 3 QBs on the roster. He'd choose the 3 guys he thinks knows the offense best. He'd stash Case on the PS so he could get more time to work on his fundamentals and more time to learn the offense.

I dint think any of that is a given.

Kubiak has gone with two qb's before. Matter of fact he went with two qb's when Matt got hurt if I'm not mistaken.

Also, kubiak didn't go with orvlosky over Yates last year and try to stash Yates on the practice squad. Basically he didn't go with the three guys that knew the system the best. He went with what he thought was the three best guys.

Last year leinart was Yates this year. The back up with some potential. Maybe could be really good in this system.

Orvlosky was beck. Knows the system. Good arm, but erratic. Vet player with a bumpy playing history.

And case is essentially Yates. Young guy with potential still learning, but probably has more upside than the guy currently sitting in third.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if kubiak went with Yates over beck. Or vice versa.

GP
08-14-2012, 10:41 AM
Whenever anyone starts talking about a rookie QB giving the best play action fake EVAR, you can be pretty sure that they're over-reacting and possibly seeing the kid through rose-colored glasses. When you really, really want some guy to be great, it's easy to let your heart work its way into your eyes. And I think some of us are doing that with both TJ and Case.

They've both got the potential to be great QBs but they've both got a long way to go.

For me at this moment in time, Beck knows this offense better than Case does. He probably knows some of it better than TJ does because he's been in a variation of it for a few years now and has had more time in it. That doesn't mean he's a better QB than TJ or Case, just that he knows the offense. And with Kubiak, that means a helluva lot.

So if the season started right now, I think Kubiak would go with 3 QBs on the roster. He'd choose the 3 guys he thinks knows the offense best. He'd stash Case on the PS so he could get more time to work on his fundamentals and more time to learn the offense.

Eh...it's just a gut instinct. Nobody thought TJ Yates would be leading a scoring drive to win the AFC South, on the road at Cincy, either. And a playoff victory at home. And almost a trip to the Conference Title Game. TJ was on nobody's radar, not even here on this mb. And anybody who says so is lying. LOL.

TJ and Case are both very young guys. Case Keenum took snaps in his very first NFL game vs. the Panther and, dare I say, he looked better than a guy like Kevin Kolb has who might not even be the starter in Arizona in what is like his third year or so in the NFL.

Out of all four QBs we have, I would want to cut Beck the most. Might as well go with youth; with someone who is a clean slate instead of a journeyman QB.

Rey
08-14-2012, 10:47 AM
I thought Case played rather poorly, but then again I didn't go to U of H. He dropped back, what 7 times? Threw 3 times, ran it twice and got sacked twice. Both of his completions were less than 10 yards from the LOS. Nothing really compelling IMO. P-squad material, let him develop this year and give him a shot at the #3 spot next year.

Kubiak said that the protection was bad and he was running for his life out there.

Killer Bee
08-14-2012, 11:11 AM
Offense (25)
QB – Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, John Beck
RB – Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Justin Forsett
FB – James Casey, Moran Norris
TE – Owen Daniels, Garrett Graham
T – Duane Brown, Rashad Butler, Derek Newton
G – Wade Smith, Antoine Caldwell, Brandon Brooks, Shelley Smith
C – Chris Myers, Ben Jones
WR – Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Keshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, DeVier Posey, Trindon Holliday

Defense (25)
DE – Antonio Smith, JJ Watt, Tim Jamison, Jared Crick
NT – Shaun Cody, Earl Mitchell, Ra’Shon Harris
OLB – Conner Barwin, Brooks Reed, Whitney Mercilus, Bryan Braman
ILB – Brian Cushing, Bradie James, Tim Dobbins, Mister Alexander
CB – Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brice McCain, Brandon Harris, Roc Carmichael
S – Danieal Manning, Glover Quin, Quintin Demps, Troy Nolan, Shiloh Keo

Special Teams (3)
LS – Jon Weeks
K – Randy Bullock
P – Dahnte Jones
I think the undernoted strength of this team is how athletic they’ll be on special teams.

PUP List – Brett Hartmann, Darryl Sharpton (takes Keo’s spot upon return)
IR Stash – TBD

Practice Squad –
Case Keenum
Jonathan Grimes
Logan Brock
Nick Mondek
Jeff Maehl
Shawn Loiseau
Torri Williams
Hebron Fangupo

HOU-TEX
08-14-2012, 11:20 AM
Offense (25)
QB – Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, John Beck
RB – Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Justin Forsett
FB – James Casey, Moran Norris
TE – Owen Daniels, Garrett Graham
T – Duane Brown, Rashad Butler, Derek Newton
G – Wade Smith, Antoine Caldwell, Brandon Brooks, Shelley Smith
C – Chris Myers, Ben Jones
WR – Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Keshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, DeVier Posey, Trindon Holliday

Defense (25)
DE – Antonio Smith, JJ Watt, Tim Jamison, Jared Crick
NT – Shaun Cody, Earl Mitchell, Ra’Shon Harris
OLB – Conner Barwin, Brooks Reed, Whitney Mercilus, Bryan Braman
ILB – Brian Cushing, Bradie James, Tim Dobbins, Mister Alexander
CB – Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brice McCain, Brandon Harris, Roc Carmichael
S – Danieal Manning, Glover Quin, Quintin Demps, Troy Nolan, Shiloh Keo

Special Teams (3)
LS – Jon Weeks
K – Randy Bullock
P – Dahnte Jones
I think the undernoted strength of this team is how athletic they’ll be on special teams.

PUP List – Brett Hartmann, Darryl Sharpton (takes Keo’s spot upon return)
IR Stash – TBD

Practice Squad –
Case Keenum
Jonathan Grimes
Logan Brock
Nick Mondek
Jeff Maehl
Shawn Loiseau
Torri Williams
Hebron Fangupo

I can dig this. I'd like to see more of Roc Carmichael and Ra'Shon Harris before giving them spots. Presently, I'd lean towards McMannis over Roc. I think I'd probably drop Keo all together.

ObsiWan
08-14-2012, 12:17 PM
Right now, I've got Beck ahead of Keenum.

Prior to TC, I said that Beck only gets on the 53 if Keenum either stinks it up OR Matt goes down.

At this point, though, I think Beck's got a better control of the offense than Keenum. Keenum's going to have to kill it to make the 53. I expect him to go to the PS.

I tend to agree. I was trying to put my HC Kubiak hat on. I can see Case being the third as well but Kubiak stated he was pleased with the way Beck played. A couple of weeks from now we'll know. 2 1/2 weeks, tops.

I'm not sure teams see him as having a high ceiling. He was'nt drafted. If some team has an injury or two at qb you don't go and get the undrafted rookie, you go after the mediocre backup with some experience.

I think Keenum can be stashed on the practice squad. Mainly for the same reasons he likely went undrafted: (a) He's not prototypical size for the position, (b) he is likely seen as a QB that put up big numbers because of the system and not his overwhelming talent, and (c) that "system" is a spread offense and NOT the classic NFL-type system. That means he'll need time to adjust.

...at least I hope that's what other teams are thinking
:D

drs23
08-14-2012, 01:10 PM
Eh...it's just a gut instinct. Nobody thought TJ Yates would be leading a scoring drive to win the AFC South, on the road at Cincy, either. And a playoff victory at home. And almost a trip to the Conference Title Game. TJ was on nobody's radar, not even here on this mb. And anybody who says so is lying. LOL.

TJ and Case are both very young guys. Case Keenum took snaps in his very first NFL game vs. the Panther and, dare I say, he looked better than a guy like Kevin Kolb has who might not even be the starter in Arizona in what is like his third year or so in the NFL.

Out of all four QBs we have, I would want to cut Beck the most. Might as well go with youth; with someone who is a clean slate instead of a journeyman QB.

Uh, to the bolded, there were a few folks on this MB who thought he would do fine. I'm one of them. I stated several times that "I think some folks are going to be surprised".

And I ain't lying. :foottap:

Vinnie
08-15-2012, 07:06 PM
Reading the notes from today's presser, I think it's a lock Kubiak hangs on to Keenum. He's very high on the kid.

steelbtexan
08-15-2012, 07:25 PM
Offense (25)
QB – Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, John Beck
RB – Arian Foster, Ben Tate, Justin Forsett
FB – James Casey, Moran Norris
TE – Owen Daniels, Garrett Graham
T – Duane Brown, Rashad Butler, Derek Newton
G – Wade Smith, Antoine Caldwell, Brandon Brooks, Shelley Smith
C – Chris Myers, Ben Jones
WR – Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Keshawn Martin, Lestar Jean, DeVier Posey, Trindon Holliday

Defense (25)
DE – Antonio Smith, JJ Watt, Tim Jamison, Jared Crick
NT – Shaun Cody, Earl Mitchell, Ra’Shon Harris
OLB – Conner Barwin, Brooks Reed, Whitney Mercilus, Bryan Braman
ILB – Brian Cushing, Bradie James, Tim Dobbins, Mister Alexander
CB – Johnathan Joseph, Kareem Jackson, Brice McCain, Brandon Harris, Roc Carmichael
S – Danieal Manning, Glover Quin, Quintin Demps, Troy Nolan, Shiloh Keo

Special Teams (3)
LS – Jon Weeks
K – Randy Bullock
P – Dahnte Jones
I think the undernoted strength of this team is how athletic they’ll be on special teams.

PUP List – Brett Hartmann, Darryl Sharpton (takes Keo’s spot upon return)
IR Stash – TBD

Practice Squad –
Case Keenum
Jonathan Grimes
Logan Brock
Nick Mondek
Jeff Maehl
Shawn Loiseau
Torri Williams
Hebron Fangupo

Good predictions,

I could see Fangupo beating out Harris

Loiseau > Dobbins or Alexander

Torri Williams > Keo

Gardner on PS

Texan_Bill
08-15-2012, 07:59 PM
Don't care except for that the old #12 isn't on it!

Corrosion
08-16-2012, 04:09 AM
Reading the notes from today's presser, I think it's a lock Kubiak hangs on to Keenum. He's very high on the kid.

I think he will be ahead of Beck by the end of camp ... whether that translates to making the final 53 or landing on the PS remains to be seen.

Corrosion
08-16-2012, 04:35 AM
Offense - 24
QB – Schaub, Yates
RB – Foster, Tate, Forsett
FB – Norris
TE – Daniels, Casey, Graham, Brock
T – Brown, Butler, Newton
G – W.Smith, Caldwell, Brooks, S.Smith
C – Myers, Jones
WR – Johnson, Walter, Martin, Posey , Jean

Defense - 25
DE – Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT – Cody, Mitchell, Fangupo
OLB – Barwin, Reed, Mercilus, Braman
ILB – Cushing, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB – Joseph, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael
S – Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Pleasant

Special Teams - 4
LS – Weeks
K – Bullock
P – Jones
PR/KR - Holliday


PUP List – Hartmann, Sharpton
IR Stash –

Practice Squad –
Keenum
Grimes
Mondek
Loiseau
Williams
Harris
Jackson (wr)

Blake
08-16-2012, 09:23 AM
Nothing really mind blowing here. Texans only keep 2 QB's. Holliday is cut. Fangupo proves he belongs.

QB Matt Schaub/T.J. Yates
RB Arian Foster/Ben Tate/Justin Forsett
FB James Casey/Moran Norris
WR1 Andre Johnson/Keshawn Martin/Lestar Jean
WR2 Kevin Walter/Bryant Johnson/DeVier Posey
TE Owen Daniels/Garrett Graham
LT Duane Brown
LG Wade Smith/Kasey Studdard
OC Chris Myers/Ben Jones
RG Antoine Caldwell/Brandon Brooks
RT Rashad Butler/Derek newton



DE J.J. Watt/Tim Jamison
DT Shaun Cody/Earl Mitchell/Hebron Fangupo
DE Antonio Smith/Jared Crick
MOLB Brooks Reed/Bryan Braman
ILB Brian Cushing/Mister Alexander
ILB Bradie James/Tim Dobbins
WOLB Connor Barwin/Whitney Mercilus
LCB Kareem Jackson/Alan Ball/Sherrick McManis
RCB Johnathan Joseph /Brice McCain/Brandon Harris
FS Deanieal Manning/Quintin Demps
SS Glover Quinn/Troy Nolan/Shiloh Keo

LS Jonathan Weeks
PK Randy Bullock
P Donnie Jones


Practice Squad:
1.) S Eddie Pleasant
2.) WR Jeff Maehl
3.) RB Jonathan Grimes
4.) CB Roc Carmichael
5.) LB Shawn Louiseau
6.) DB Torri Williams
7.) OT Nick Mondek
8.) OG Shelley Smith


Reserve/PUP - Brett Hartmann/Darryl Sharpton

Rey
08-16-2012, 09:48 AM
I don't understand putting Ball on the roster. I get that he's a Wade guy, but he was awful in that last game...

Maybe he turns it around, but I'm more willing to give a spot to an unknown like Carmichael than to a guy I know will be roasted like Ball...

I can understand CB's being beat..That's going to happen...

But Ball looked ridiculous, crazy, silly, sloppy all rolled into one...Bad position, not looking for the ball...

He looked like someone they just grabbed from outside of the stadium and said cover these guys...

Corrosion
08-16-2012, 10:02 AM
I don't understand putting Ball on the roster. I get that he's a Wade guy, but he was awful in that last game...

Maybe he turns it around, but I'm more willing to give a spot to an unknown like Carmichael than to a guy I know will be roasted like Ball...

I can understand CB's being beat..That's going to happen...

But Ball looked ridiculous, crazy, silly, sloppy all rolled into one...Bad position, not looking for the ball...

He looked like someone they just grabbed from outside of the stadium and said cover these guys...

I have Ball getting a visit from "The Turk" ..... along with Keo. :kitten:


Ball reminded me too much of Petey Faggins and P-Burnt .... they would have decent enough position on the ball but never got their heads around to make a play.

infantrycak
08-16-2012, 10:22 AM
Nothing really mind blowing here. Texans only keep 2 QB's. Holliday is cut. Fangupo proves he belongs.

So Keenum doesn't even make the PS? Please explain.

Corrosion
08-16-2012, 10:26 AM
So Keenum doesn't even make the PS? Please explain.

That would be laughable .... TJ Yates isnt going to be running the scout team.

One or both happens - Beck makes the final 53 and Keenum makes the PS (or final 53). They will have more than just Yates / Schaub in house at QB.

speedfreek
08-16-2012, 10:28 AM
Zero chance that we hold only 2 QB's after last year. ZERO..

Isn't there some new rule about keeping an extra player if that player is a QB?

Why wouldn't we take advange of that?

TJ

So Keenum doesn't even make the PS? Please explain.

The Pencil Neck
08-16-2012, 10:41 AM
Isn't there some new rule about keeping an extra player if that player is a QB?

No. Lots of people get this confused.

In the old days (prior to last year), you could dress 45 guys. You were allowed a 46th guy if that was an emergency QB. If the emergency QB played before the 4th quarter, your other QBs couldn't come back on to the field that game in any position.

Last year, they changed the rules so you could just dress 46 guys. The Emergency QB rules were removed.

This is a link to explain it. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/22/nfl-drops-third-quarterback-rule-46-active-players-on-game-day/)

If you want to dress 3 QBs, you have to dress 3 QBs BUT if you want to use that 46th spot for a position other than QB, you can. AND if you have 3 QBs and the 3rd QB plays, you can bring the #1 or #2 guy back if you want and play them.

So things simplified, they didn't get more complicated.

speedfreek
08-16-2012, 10:47 AM
Just found the rule text as well..


>From its 53-man total roster, an NFL team may designate a maximum of 45 players as "active" for each game. With one exception, known as the "third quarterback" rule, active players are the only ones allowed to dress in uniform for games and play in them. A team can activate fewer than 45 players, but according to the labor contract, it must have at least 42 active at all times.

Makes sense that you keep a third QB since it has no impact on the number of players you can actually put out on the field for a game..

Keenum seems like a much better emergency QB than Beck given his better mobility and potential down the road. As I've said before, everyone has already seen Beck in live action -- and that's why he's bounced around from team to team without sticking..

TJ

The Pencil Neck
08-16-2012, 11:02 AM
Just found the rule text as well..


>From its 53-man total roster, an NFL team may designate a maximum of 45 players as "active" for each game. With one exception, known as the "third quarterback" rule, active players are the only ones allowed to dress in uniform for games and play in them. A team can activate fewer than 45 players, but according to the labor contract, it must have at least 42 active at all times.

Makes sense that you keep a third QB since it has no impact on the number of players you can actually put out on the field for a game..

Keenum seems like a much better emergency QB than Beck given his better mobility and potential down the road. As I've said before, everyone has already seen Beck in live action -- and that's why he's bounced around from team to team without sticking..

TJ

Yeah... but... see... that Emergency QB rule went into effect in 1991. Last year, they ditched it. It no longer applies. There is no more Emergency QB.

Now, a team can just dress 46 players and can dress whatever 46 players they want.

76Texan
08-16-2012, 12:27 PM
I don't agree with that. I think udfa and late round qb's are among the least likely to get poached off of practice squads.

Not too many teams are going to take an undrafted qb they have to put on their 53 man roster that has not spent any time in their system and doesn't know anything about their playbook.

The Redskins have two rookie QB on their roster: RG III and Kirk Cousins.

If one of them gets injured, what's the difference in replacing them with Keenum in term of experience in the system?

GP
08-16-2012, 12:47 PM
Yeah... but... see... that Emergency QB rule went into effect in 1991. Last year, they ditched it. It no longer applies. There is no more Emergency QB.

Now, a team can just dress 46 players and can dress whatever 46 players they want.

So basically the Texans could utilize that extra player by making it the 3rd QB.

If you're accustomed to only having 45, then the league gives you an extra guy to dress out however you wish...then why not use it on the extra QB? We were already carrying three RBs anyways, IIRC, so that extra spot could go to a 3rd QB.

I wonder if Kubiak still has nightmares of that Jaguars game (in Jax) last year when Leinart gets drilled into the turf and then Yates comes out and starts moving all around and Kubiak finally remembers that the next QB available on the roster is...Owen Daniels. So he shuts Yates down and basically runs the ball the rest of the game. I wonder if he learned anything from that.

If he doesn't carry a 3rd QB, based on prior experience in 2011, he's asking for trouble. And I don't care if it's Case or Beck or Garcia or Delhomme. But we better have enough QBs on game day, especially with Schaub coming off a bad foot injury. What's Kubiak going to do? Start only two QBs and then have nobody behind Yates if Schaub exits the game early??? Bad planning, IMO.

The Pencil Neck
08-16-2012, 01:00 PM
So basically the Texans could utilize that extra player by making it the 3rd QB.

If you're accustomed to only having 45, then the league gives you an extra guy to dress out however you wish...then why not use it on the extra QB? We were already carrying three RBs anyways, IIRC, so that extra spot could go to a 3rd QB.

I wonder if Kubiak still has nightmares of that Jaguars game (in Jax) last year when Leinart gets drilled into the turf and then Yates comes out and starts moving all around and Kubiak finally remembers that the next QB available on the roster is...Owen Daniels. So he shuts Yates down and basically runs the ball the rest of the game. I wonder if he learned anything from that.

If he doesn't carry a 3rd QB, based on prior experience in 2011, he's asking for trouble. And I don't care if it's Case or Beck or Garcia or Delhomme. But we better have enough QBs on game day, especially with Schaub coming off a bad foot injury. What's Kubiak going to do? Start only two QBs and then have nobody behind Yates if Schaub exits the game early??? Bad planning, IMO.

Yeah. A lot of teams are using that 46th spot for another position than QB and then only carrying 2 active QBs on game day. Hell, there have been times when we've only had 2 QBs on our roster and there are plenty of guys here predicting we'll only have Schaub and Yates as part of the 53.

As we saw in that Jag game last year, that's a dangerous game of Russian roulette right there.

Unless Case plays lights out in the next game and the last game, I expect him to go to the PS and Beck to go onto the 53. Beck knows enough of the offense to go into shutdown, game-manager mode if there are injuries to Schaub and Yates and then we can pull Case up from the PS for the next game if we need him.

The only other option I see is for Case to just out-play Beck and make the 53. Then we have to hope Beck is still keeping in shape and sitting on his couch if there are injuries.

GP
08-16-2012, 01:14 PM
Yeah. A lot of teams are using that 46th spot for another position than QB and then only carrying 2 active QBs on game day. Hell, there have been times when we've only had 2 QBs on our roster and there are plenty of guys here predicting we'll only have Schaub and Yates as part of the 53.

As we saw in that Jag game last year, that's a dangerous game of Russian roulette right there.

Unless Case plays lights out in the next game and the last game, I expect him to go to the PS and Beck to go onto the 53. Beck knows enough of the offense to go into shutdown, game-manager mode if there are injuries to Schaub and Yates and then we can pull Case up from the PS for the next game if we need him.

The only other option I see is for Case to just out-play Beck and make the 53. Then we have to hope Beck is still keeping in shape and sitting on his couch if there are injuries.

I'm not gonna' lie, I really think Case is a better long-term option at QB than Beck...so I hate the idea of (a) him getting claimed on waiver wire, and (b) getting signed off our PS even if he DID make it to our PS. Shanny in Washington would looooove to scoop a guy like Case form our PS since Case would know the ropes and be easier to transition in, in case something happened to RGIII.

However it works out is how it works. I just want to see 3 QBs on game day, that's all. I prefer Case, but at this point I'll take whatever we get.

76Texan
08-16-2012, 01:16 PM
Also, the Redskins cut Beck during the 5th round of the draft,

They picked Kirk Cousins in the 4th.

Let's say Cousins goes down with an injury, would they be more likely to give Beck a call or Keenum (if both are available)?

drs23
08-16-2012, 01:20 PM
I'm not gonna' lie, I really think Case is a better long-term option at QB than Beck...so I hate the idea of (a) him getting claimed on waiver wire, and (b) getting signed off our PS even if he DID make it to our PS. Shanny in Washington would looooove to scoop a guy like Case form our PS since Case would know the ropes and be easier to transition in, in case something happened to RGIII.

However it works out is how it works. I just want to see 3 QBs on game day, that's all. I prefer Case, but at this point I'll take whatever we get.

GP, why would Shanihan do that after drafting RGIII in the first and then taking Kirk Cousins in the 4th and still has Rexy?

Edit: 76 beat me to it...
I dun't fear him plucking Case Keenum in the least.

Not gonna happen.

Dutchrudder
08-16-2012, 01:21 PM
Also, the Redskins cut Beck during the 5th round of the draft,

They picked Kirk Cousins in the 4th.

Let's say Cousins goes down with an injury, would they be more likely to give Beck a call or Keenum (if both are available)?

I would think Beck just due to his experience in their system. If you need a backup midseason, you don't want to go with an UDFA with no NFL experience. Although, that may change as we see more of Keenum in preseason, word is he will be playing a lot more in game 2.

Corrosion
08-16-2012, 01:36 PM
I would think Beck just due to his experience in their system. If you need a backup midseason, you don't want to go with an UDFA with no NFL experience. Although, that may change as we see more of Keenum in preseason, word is he will be playing a lot more in game 2.

Under all but the best circumstances (Tom Brady), if you get to your 3rd QB .... Your season is toast.
I dont think Beck gives you any better chance to win than does Keenum if both Yates and Schaub fall to injury. We dont know how good Keenum can be , we do know what Beck is .... a career backup.

dsorc
08-16-2012, 01:42 PM
Yeah. A lot of teams are using that 46th spot for another position than QB and then only carrying 2 active QBs on game day. Hell, there have been times when we've only had 2 QBs on our roster and there are plenty of guys here predicting we'll only have Schaub and Yates as part of the 53.

As we saw in that Jag game last year, that's a dangerous game of Russian roulette right there.

There are pros and cons to dressing a 3rd QB. As has already been laid out, not having a healthy QB is like having one hand tied behind your back. However, that third QB doesn't contribute in any other way. Getting an extra player that can contribute in ST will be more valuable in any game where your QB doesn't get injured. ST guys also probably get more beat up than the QB. Dressing a non-QB as your 46th guy provides more reward but is riskier. This is all assuming a healthy QB1. If your QB1 is an injury risk, then having 3 QBs is more justified.

76Texan
08-16-2012, 01:50 PM
I would think Beck just due to his experience in their system. If you need a backup midseason, you don't want to go with an UDFA with no NFL experience. Although, that may change as we see more of Keenum in preseason, word is he will be playing a lot more in game 2.

Kirk Cousins was 9/22 for 74 yards (3.36 ypa) and an INT in his first PS game against Buffalo for a 31.2 QB rating.

3 of his completions were during the last 29 seconds of the half (loose coverage.)

Rex Grossman (the 2nd QB) was 2 of 10 for 22 yards (2.22 ypa) and a 39.6 QB rating.

Can they be replaced by Keenum?
You betcha!

speedfreek
08-16-2012, 07:46 PM
It's not JUST about Washington. Anyone thinking that is being super short-sighted.

The guy had offers from other teams before signing here. You don't think that Jacksonville would roll the dice on him over Gabbert? Or Henne?

Hell, I could see Bud Adams signing the kid just to screw with us. He stayed with Vince when it was clear he was a head case..

The last thing I want to do is play against the guy two times a year..

TJ

Blake
08-17-2012, 02:02 PM
So Keenum doesn't even make the PS? Please explain.

That would be laughable .... TJ Yates isnt going to be running the scout team.

One or both happens - Beck makes the final 53 and Keenum makes the PS (or final 53). They will have more than just Yates / Schaub in house at QB.

Zero chance that we hold only 2 QB's after last year. ZERO..

Isn't there some new rule about keeping an extra player if that player is a QB?

Why wouldn't we take advange of that?

TJ

We didnt have a QB on last years PS. So I think they will be fine without Kennum. But if that is laughable, then I guess I dont have a sense of humor. Also, if the Texans need to sign Keenum, or a QB of similar usefulness, I dont think that would be a problem. Hell, I dont even think Beck will make the roster.

utahmark
08-17-2012, 03:01 PM
It's not JUST about Washington. Anyone thinking that is being super short-sighted.

The guy had offers from other teams before signing here. You don't think that Jacksonville would roll the dice on him over Gabbert? Or Henne?

Hell, I could see Bud Adams signing the kid just to screw with us. He stayed with Vince when it was clear he was a head case..

The last thing I want to do is play against the guy two times a year..
TJ

Because of the great success University of Houston qb's have had in the NFL? Dude will be lucky to be in the league 5 years from now.

Thorn
08-17-2012, 03:24 PM
We'll find out more about Case Saturday. I'm looking forward to it.

infantrycak
08-17-2012, 03:26 PM
We didnt have a QB on last years PS. So I think they will be fine without Kennum.

There may be some temporary exceptions but they have pretty much always had three QB's somewhere. 2 QB's on active and practice combined ain't happening.

Thorn
08-17-2012, 03:32 PM
There may be some temporary exceptions but they have pretty much always had three QB's somewhere. 2 QB's on active and practice combined ain't happening.

There will be three QBs, and maybe four if they try and hid Kenum on the practice squad. But, if Keenum shows anywhere close to what he did at U of H against the other guys 2s and 3s, he won't last on the practice squad. Someone with an accute QB shortage will snatch him up and put him on their roster.

Corrosion
08-17-2012, 04:09 PM
There will be three QBs, and maybe four if they try and hid Kenum on the practice squad. But, if Keenum shows anywhere close to what he did at U of H against the other guys 2s and 3s, he won't last on the practice squad. Someone with an accute QB shortage will snatch him up and put him on their roster.

Whats Beck's salary .... I have a feeling cap space may play into that decision.
I'd wager Beck's deal is significantly more as a seasoned NFL QB (backup or not) than is Keenum's who was an undrafted rookie.
We all know they are up against the cap and have a lot of things to work out going forward to be able to keep their core players. If they arent far apart with what they offer on the field , in practice ... then factor in that the rookie likely has more growth potential than a guy who's career arc has flatlined to that of 3rd string backup.
If either have to take the field for more than mop up duty .... the season is likely toast.
May as well run with the cheaper option with the potential for growth.

Thorn
08-17-2012, 04:25 PM
Whats Beck's salary .... I have a feeling cap space may play into that decision.
I'd wager Beck's deal is significantly more as a seasoned NFL QB (backup or not) than is Keenum's who was an undrafted rookie.
We all know they are up against the cap and have a lot of things to work out going forward to be able to keep their core players. If they arent far apart with what they offer on the field , in practice ... then factor in that the rookie likely has more growth potential than a guy who's career arc has flatlined to that of 3rd string backup.
If either have to take the field for more than mop up duty .... the season is likely toast.
May as well run with the cheaper option with the potential for growth.

That makes sense. For me, it's more of a home town fan boy approach to Keenum more than anything else, and I'll admit it. LOL

Lucky
08-17-2012, 09:26 PM
Whats Beck's salary .... I have a feeling cap space may play into that decision.
I'd wager Beck's deal is significantly more as a seasoned NFL QB (backup or not) than is Keenum's who was an undrafted rookie.
Beck would pull $700K in 2012. Keenum would get the rookie minimum ($390K). However, it's likely that Keenum's cap number would not be in the top 51 on the team. So just his prorated signing bonus would count against the cap (likely less than $10K).

Still, it's unlikely that the $700k would be the mitigating factor. I think the longer the Texans look at Beck, the less likely he'll be on the team. The pressure Beck will see versus the Niners will give a good indication of his abilities.

badboy
08-17-2012, 11:09 PM
QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck -- Keenum on PS
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett -- Try to get Grimes on PS
FB: Casey, Norris
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey
TE: OD, GG, Brock
LT: DB, Butler
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Newton

DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl, Fangupo
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael, Ball
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

LS: Weeks
P: Jones
K: Bullock

---
The guys I think are borderline are Ball, Fangupo, Brock, and Norris.
It's Friday before San Fran game & as of now, I put Holliday over Ball.

beerlover
08-17-2012, 11:15 PM
It's Friday before San Fran game & as of now, I put Holliday over Ball.

Ball needs to take a Holiday :butterfly:

Rey
08-18-2012, 02:07 AM
Also, the Redskins cut Beck during the 5th round of the draft,

They picked Kirk Cousins in the 4th.

Let's say Cousins goes down with an injury, would they be more likely to give Beck a call or Keenum (if both are available)?

I'm thinking neither.

dream_team
08-18-2012, 02:17 AM
Taking a crack at the final 53 just for fun.

OFFENSE

QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck (Keenum makes PS)

RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett

FB: Casey, Norris

WR: Johnson, Walter, Jean, Martin, Posey, B. Johnson

TE: Daniels, Graham

OL: Brown, Smith, Myers, Caldwell, Butler, Newton, Brooks, Jones, S. Smith (Mondek to PS)

DEFENSE

DL: Smith, Cody, Watt, Jamison, Mitchell, Crick

ILB: Cushing, James, Alexander, Dobbins (Sharpton on PUP)

OLB: Barwin, Reed, Mercilus, Braman, Nading

CB: Joseph, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael, McManis

S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

SPECIAL

K: Bullock

P: Jones

LS: Weeks

I tried to get Holliday to make the team, but I opted for more experience on the OL with Shelley Smith, and more experience with the receivers with Bryant Johnson. I also have McManis barely beating out Ball for the last DB spot. McManis' versatility gets him on the roster. I expect Martin to be the KR/PR.

Corrosion
08-18-2012, 06:35 AM
Beck would pull $700K in 2012. Keenum would get the rookie minimum ($390K). However, it's likely that Keenum's cap number would not be in the top 51 on the team. So just his prorated signing bonus would count against the cap (likely less than $10K).

Still, it's unlikely that the $700k would be the mitigating factor. I think the longer the Texans look at Beck, the less likely he'll be on the team. The pressure Beck will see versus the Niners will give a good indication of his abilities.

I didnt realize Beck's salary was so low .... You are correct , the difference in their salary wont likely be a factor.

Keenum will play with the 2's against the 49ers .... Beck with the 3's.

Not sure how to take what he (Beck) does with and against that level of competition.
Will be interesting to see what Keenum does against the 2's as its a significant step up in competition (and protection).

76Texan
08-18-2012, 07:56 AM
I'm thinking neither.

How so?

With Keenum, they would be replacing a rookie with another rookie in the same system.

On the cheap, too.

The rhetoric here is that Keenum is placed on the PS squad; ie. the coaches see something in him that deserves developing.

It's very doubtful that the Skins will go anwhere this year.
They already have Grossman as a vet on the roster (assuming they carry 3 QBs).
Let's say Cousins sustains an injury that might make his return to action next year doubtful (or worse), jumping at Keenum would give them a young QB that they can groom instead of Cousins.

They will still have plenty of cap space to go hunting for a veteran backup in the off-season (if they decide that Grossman has very little left in the tank.

Corrosion
08-18-2012, 08:54 AM
I really dont think there is a lot of risk with placing Keenum on the PS. He was afterall an UDFA.

I believe we tend to overvalue and become attached to our players .... with Keenum being a hometown college QB , this is magnified.

The Redskins would be the least of my worries as far as teams who may sign Keenum system be damned , they spent a ton of assets and money on RG3. I seriously doubt that they are even looking at QB's other than an injury situation.

A QB hungry team may look at Keenum , but there are likely better options even for those teams.


Keenum's play going forward , especially in todays game since he will be with the 2's instead of the 3's may give us an indication of his potential in the NFL. He could light it up and change my perception .... but at this point , he's seen as a college system QB in NFL circles.

drs23
08-18-2012, 09:07 AM
I really dont think there is a lot of risk with placing Keenum on the PS. He was afterall an UDFA.

I believe we tend to overvalue and become attached to our players .... with Keenum being a hometown college QB , this is magnified.

The Redskins would be the least of my worries as far as teams who may sign Keenum system be damned , they spent a ton of assets and money on RG3. I seriously doubt that they are even looking at QB's other than an injury situation.

A QB hungry team may look at Keenum , but there are likely better options even for those teams.


Keenum's play going forward , especially in todays game since he will be with the 2's instead of the 3's may give us an indication of his potential in the NFL. He could light it up and change my perception .... but at this point , he's seen as a college system QB in NFL circles.

he's seen as a college system QB in NFL circles.

That's a good thing because he's now in a hell of a system. If he can grasp it and put the ball where it needs to be when it needs to be there, viola. I think with Keenum playing with the twos tonight will go a little further in telling where he stands in terms of improvement to date and NFL potential.

Rey
08-18-2012, 10:34 AM
Let's say Cousins sustains an injury that might make his return to action next year doubtful (or worse), jumping at Keenum would give them a young QB that they can groom instead of Cousins

I like Keenum a lot, but I don't think he's this highly coveted guy around the NFL where if a team has injuries they'd run out and get him as their first choice.

Lucky
08-18-2012, 10:45 AM
I like Keenum a lot, but I don't think he's this highly coveted guy around the NFL where if a team has injuries they'd run out and get him as their first choice.
Ditto Jonathan Grimes.

ChampionTexan
08-18-2012, 11:05 AM
I really dont think there is a lot of risk with placing Keenum on the PS. He was afterall an UDFA.

I believe we tend to overvalue and become attached to our players .... with Keenum being a hometown college QB , this is magnified.

The Redskins would be the least of my worries as far as teams who may sign Keenum system be damned , they spent a ton of assets and money on RG3. I seriously doubt that they are even looking at QB's other than an injury situation.

A QB hungry team may look at Keenum , but there are likely better options even for those teams.
[/B]

Exactly - four months ago, 32 out of 32 NFL teams chose not to use one of their 7 (give or take) picks on Case, and that was for a no-risk opportunity to put him on a 90 player roster. Now, folks are worried about him being picked up for by one of those teams for a guaranteed spot on their 53 man roster (well, guaranteed to be on it - not necessarily to stay on it). Unless Case does some other-worldly things tonight, along with any work he may get in the final two preseason games, it's just not gonna happen.

Something else about him going to the PS. Once you're on the PS, being picked up by another team isn't like being picked up off of waivers. The player gets to negotiate a contract, and actually has to agree to be picked up by another team. I'm not aware of it ever happening, but theoretically, a player could choose to turn down a contract offer and stay on his current team's PS.

I'm not saying Case would ever in a million years do that, but if the Texans felt he had more long-term upside than Beck (which he almost certainly does - if for no other reason than Beck's lack of it), but felt like Beck was the better option right now, they could make it known to Case that they would match (or perhaps even beat) any offer he might get while on the PS, and add him to their 53 man roster. Again, not a guarantee by any strethc, and it doesn't bind anybody to anything, but the point is the Texans wouldn't necessarily be without some say if another team tried to pick him up off of the PS.

76Texan
08-18-2012, 11:40 AM
Exactly - four months ago, 32 out of 32 NFL teams chose not to use one of their 7 (give or take) picks on Case, and that was for a no-risk opportunity to put him on a 90 player roster. Now, folks are worried about him being picked up for by one of those teams for a guaranteed spot on their 53 man roster (well, guaranteed to be on it - not necessarily to stay on it). Unless Case does some other-worldly things tonight, along with any work he may get in the final two preseason games, it's just not gonna happen.

Something else about him going to the PS. Once you're on the PS, being picked up by another team isn't like being picked up off of waivers. The player gets to negotiate a contract, and actually has to agree to be picked up by another team. I'm not aware of it ever happening, but theoretically, a player could choose to turn down a contract offer and stay on his current team's PS.

I'm not saying Case would ever in a million years do that, but if the Texans felt he had more long-term upside than Beck (which he almost certainly does - if for no other reason than Beck's lack of it), but felt like Beck was the better option right now, they could make it known to Case that they would match (or perhaps even beat) any offer he might get while on the PS, and add him to their 53 man roster. Again, not a guarantee by any strethc, and it doesn't bind anybody to anything, but the point is the Texans wouldn't necessarily be without some say if another team tried to pick him up off of the PS.

You brought up some very interesting points that I never know exist, thanks!

As far as the Skins goes, it was just a rhetoric question that I had.

They drafted RGIII and still took Kirk Cousins in the fourth.
If Cousins somehow get injured (let's go to the extreme and say that it's career-ending; I frankly do not wish that to happen) the logic that dictates them to select Cousins may indcate that they could pick up a guy like Keenum.

Before the draft, Keenum didn't play much under center; but as the season goes on, his being on the Texans' PS ( ie. he performs decently or well in the PS) tell the Skins that they don't need to have the concerns (about him not being able to play in the WCO).

I didn't say that the Skins will rush to get Keenum, only that it's quite a possibility. They are willing to spend a roster space for Cousins, they can do the same for Keenum.

ChampionTexan
08-18-2012, 11:50 AM
You brought up some very interesting points that I never know exist, thanks!

As far as the Skins goes, it was just a rhetoric question that I had.

They drafted RGIII and still took Kirk Cousins in the fourth.
If Cousins somehow get injured (let's go to the extreme and say that it's career-ending; I frankly do not wish that to happen) the logic that dictates them to select Cousins may indcate that they could pick up a guy like Keenum.

Before the draft, Keenum didn't play much under center; but as the season goes on, his being on the Texans' PS ( ie. he performs decently or well in the PS) tell the Skins that they don't need to have the concerns (about him not being able to play in the WCO).

I didn't say that the Skins will rush to get Keenum, only that it's quite a possibility. They are willing to spend a roster space for Cousins, they can do the same for Keenum.

Well, unless RGIII and Rex get hurt, it's pretty unlikely that Cousins will have the opportunity to injure himself - at least not once we get past preseason (and if he injures himself in preseason, the Texans will know about it when they make their final roster cuts) (Not that they'll care).

76Texan
08-18-2012, 11:59 AM
Well, unless RGIII and Rex get hurt, it's pretty unlikely that Cousins will have the opportunity to injure himself - at least not once we get past preseason (and if he injures himself in preseason, the Texans will know about it when they make their final roster cuts) (Not that they'll care).

A player can get hurt in practice, can't he?

Also, I heard that a guy got hurt falling down the stairs, in a motorcycle accident, etc.

Rey
08-18-2012, 02:17 PM
Ditto Jonathan Grimes.

Qb is a different animal than rb.

A rb can come in and contribute a lot sooner than a qb.

Also, I've stated this in many threads, I couldn't care less about the ps. Put the best guys on the roster.

76Texan
08-18-2012, 02:26 PM
There will be three QBs, and maybe four if they try and hid Kenum on the practice squad. But, if Keenum shows anywhere close to what he did at U of H against the other guys 2s and 3s, he won't last on the practice squad. Someone with an accute QB shortage will snatch him up and put him on their roster.

Thorn, old pal, just a little reminder:

Yates' numbers during pre-season last year were as followed:

13 of 26 for 181 yds (50% completion pct. and 7 ypa), zero TD and 1 INT for a QB rating of 56.7

And Yates never played with the 2's; ie. he only played against scrubs.


Leinart's numbers:

36-58, 361 yds (62.1 completion pct. and 6.2 ypa, 1 TD, 1 INT for a QB rating of 78.3)

infantrycak
08-18-2012, 02:37 PM
Qb is a different animal than rb.

A rb can come in and contribute a lot sooner than a qb.

Funny a lot of folks around here think Yates proved himself better than Schaub or a likely successor with no off-season.

Also, I've stated this in many threads, I couldn't care less about the ps. Put the best guys on the roster.

Problem is you are acting like they are walking around the locker room with one of them wearing a jersey that says "best guy" on the back and that is nonsense. Even best isn't as certain as you make out. Best right now and best in six months for instance is an important distinction. When you have guys very close in talent at the tail end of the roster of course PS eligibility plays a consideration. It would be ignorant not to take it into consideration. It is part of the system.

Rey
08-18-2012, 03:17 PM
Funny a lot of folks around here think Yates proved himself better than Schaub or a likely successor with no off-season.



Problem is you are acting like they are walking around the locker room with one of them wearing a jersey that says "best guy" on the back and that is nonsense. Even best isn't as certain as you make out. Best right now and best in six months for instance is an important distinction. When you have guys very close in talent at the tail end of the roster of course PS eligibility plays a consideration. It would be ignorant not to take it into consideration. It is part of the system.

I don't know what any of that has to do with anything I posted except the last sentence.

And regarding those last three sentences, IMO, you are wrong.

Doesn't matter who we think are the best guys. At the end if pre season there will be a pecking order. Whether you like it or not, the coaches are going to decide who they think is better and they are going to set the depth chart accordingly.

And ps eligibility has 0 to do with that because if you think a young guy is better than a vet or is going to be better than a said vet at the end of the depth chart it makes no sense to put them on ps. None what so ever.

Why would you risk losing a guy that you think can help your team (now or in the future) more than another guy you're keeping??? Seriously, that's just wacky.

The players on practice squad will be there because the coaches think they aren't better or can't help the team more than the guys on the active roster. Period.

JB
08-18-2012, 03:33 PM
I don't know what any of that has to do with anything I posted except the last sentence.

And regarding those last three sentences, IMO, you are wrong.

Doesn't matter who we think are the best guys. At the end if pre season there will be a pecking order. Whether you like it or not, the coaches are going to decide who they think is better and they are going to set the depth chart accordingly.

And ps eligibility has 0 to do with that because if you think a young guy is better than a vet or is going to be better than a said vet at the end of the depth chart it makes no sense to put them on ps. None what so ever.

Why would you risk losing a guy that you think can help your team (now or in the future) more than another guy you're keeping??? Seriously, that's just wacky.

The players on practice squad will be there because the coaches think they aren't better or can't help the team more than the guys on the active roster. Period.

If there is a clear cut distinction, then yes you keep the best guy. But if you have two more guys that grade out equally, then absolutely ps eligibility comes into consideration. The coaches have said it. So does IR (albeit phantom Ir at times).

Rey
08-18-2012, 05:26 PM
If there is a clear cut distinction, then yes you keep the best guy. But if you have two more guys that grade out equally, then absolutely ps eligibility comes into consideration. The coaches have said it. So does IR (albeit phantom Ir at times).

The coaches are not going to put a guy on ps they think is better.

Sorry, but it makes no sense no matter who says it.

Forsett is ahead of grimes on the depth chart for a reason. They trust him more Aka they think that at this point hed be a better fit for the third rb position.

If someone proves they are better, even incrementally, he'll be on the roster. If not, he won't. It's that simple.

Another reason why I think what you're saying makes no sense is this: why would you keep a journeyman vet over a rookie or young player you think is just as good or a little better.

ChampionTexan
08-18-2012, 05:34 PM
A player can get hurt in practice, can't he?

Also, I heard that a guy got hurt falling down the stairs, in a motorcycle accident, etc.

When's the last time you heard of a NFL quarterback getting hurt in practice?

Also, I said "pretty unlikely", not absolutely impossible.

76Texan
08-18-2012, 05:53 PM
double post

76Texan
08-18-2012, 05:54 PM
When's the last time you heard of a NFL quarterback getting hurt in practice?

Also, I said "pretty unlikely", not absolutely impossible.

This season:

Miami Dolphins quarterback David Garrard suffered a sudden knee injury and need surgery on his knee prior to the Miami Dolphins preseason opening game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

...

A guy can incur an injury and then reaggravate it later on.

Remember how AJ went down by himself without anybody hitting him?

...

At any rate, it was a rhetoric question, so never mind, let's not go into all these details that neither of us really want to.

Peace!

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2012, 03:12 AM
This season:

Miami Dolphins quarterback David Garrard suffered a sudden knee injury and need surgery on his knee prior to the Miami Dolphins preseason opening game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

...

A guy can incur an injury and then reaggravate it later on.

Remember how AJ went down by himself without anybody hitting him?

...

At any rate, it was a rhetoric question, so never mind, let's not go into all these details that neither of us really want to.

Peace!

Remember when Zach Diles broke his leg running in practice with no one around him?

BUT... just a quibble... but Garrard didn't hurt his knee in practice. He was at home watching his kid swimming in the pool. He turned to do something and his knee when crackle-crackle and that was all she wrote. At least, that's the story he told on Hard Knocks.

Corrosion
08-19-2012, 08:12 AM
After last nights game , going to have to re-evaluate my list.

Sonny Harris looked really good ... as did Louiseau and Keo made a couple plays.

Rey
08-19-2012, 08:32 AM
The Redskins have two rookie QB on their roster: RG III and Kirk Cousins.

If one of them gets injured, what's the difference in replacing them with Keenum in term of experience in the system?

You'd have to ask the redskins that.

They drafted rg3 and cousins, so there was something about them that they liked more than Keenum.

That's like asking, if schaub gets hurt what's the difference if we replace him with Rex grossman.

Yeah they both have experience in the system, but there is a reason Schaub is the starter here and Rex isn't.

Personally I want case to be on the roster, but I'm not going to act like it's a given he's scooped off of our ps if he's put there.

Playoffs
08-19-2012, 09:04 AM
I like Keenum a lot, but I don't think he's this highly coveted guy around the NFL where if a team has injuries they'd run out and get him as their first choice.Ditto Jonathan Grimes.
I'm not so sure about exposing Grimes. There are some RB hungry teams out there, like Detroit, that might snatch him up.

Rey
08-19-2012, 09:08 AM
Grimes played well last night against a team that had two rb's go down and had another rb that isn't that good.

I'd be surprised if we cut meggett and grimes if both made it to, and lasted on our practice squad all year.

Corrosion
08-19-2012, 09:26 AM
Updated list after game 2 (SF). Changes in bold.


Offense - 24
QB – Schaub, Yates
RB – Foster, Tate, Grimes
FB – Norris
TE – Daniels, Casey, Graham, Brock
T – Brown, Butler, Newton
G – W.Smith, Caldwell, Brooks, S.Smith
C – Myers, Jones
WR – Johnson, Walter, Martin, Jean , Posey

Defense - 25
DE – Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT – Cody, Mitchell, Harris
OLB – Barwin, Reed, Mercilus, Braman
ILB – Cushing, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB – Joseph, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael
S – Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Keo

Special Teams - 4
LS – Weeks
K – Bullock
P – Jones
PR/KR - Holliday


PUP List – Hartmann, Sharpton
IR Stash –

Practice Squad –
Keenum
Mondek
Loiseau
Williams
Fangupo
Jackson (wr)
Pleasant


Grimes moves ahead of Forsett and Meggett.

I have a hard time justifying Brock making the final 53 but cant see going with just two TE's and Casey as much as this offense rely's upon the position. Brock stays for now. Could see a cut from elsewhere factoring in here.

Sonny Harris makes the final 53 over Fangupo who goes to the PS. Harris has been very good two weeks in a row.

Keo gets the last safety spot over Pleasant.

The kicker spot is wide open - leaving Bullock on my 53 for the time being but that is no indication of the eventual winner and subject to change. Depth on KO's is a concern with both IMO.

Having a hard time not putting Nading on the final roster , just dont know who to replace , could come down to him and TE Brock. Is OD , Graham and Casey enough at TE??

Loiseau also looked pretty solid , just no room with the loaded LB corp for him.

Trycycle makes the roster as the KR/PR tho I had him on last weeks roster , his performance Vs SF helps to solidify the spot.

Lucky
08-19-2012, 09:39 AM
I have a hard time justifying Brock making the final 53 but cant see going with just two TE's and Casey as much as this offense rely's upon the position. Brock stays for now. Could see a cut from elsewhere factoring in here.
I think you've got it. I think they will find a blocking TE on the waiver wire.

Also, I don't see Keo making the team, in conjunction with Pleasant on the practice squad. No real need for 6 safeties. I would lean to cutting Keo, and PSing Pleasant. Both are coverage liabilities. Maybe Pleasant can get better.

Corrosion
08-19-2012, 09:52 AM
I think you've got it. I think they will find a blocking TE on the waiver wire.

Thats what I was thinking .... For now Brock just takes up that spot on my 53.



Also, I don't see Keo making the team, in conjunction with Pleasant on the practice squad. No real need for 6 safeties. I would lean to cutting Keo, and PSing Pleasant. Both are coverage liabilities. Maybe Pleasant can get better.

I only have five safeties on my final 53. Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Keo with Pleasant landing on the PS. Who's the 6th ?

Dropping Keo could allow for another LBer to make the roster (Nading) ... or even allow them to keep a 3rd QB as I only have two in my 53. Four safeties seems awful thin tho.

There will definately be some difficult cuts to make this season.

Lucky
08-19-2012, 09:52 AM
I'm not so sure about exposing Grimes. There are some RB hungry teams out there, like Detroit, that might snatch him up.
Detriot has an UDFA RB who ran for 92 yards versus the Ravens. They've got plaenty of back end guys. What they need is Best to get healthy.

Grimes played well last night against a team that had two rb's go down and had another rb that isn't that good.

The Niners will eventually cut a RB (like Dixon or Cartwright) better than Grimes. Grimes might make their practice squad, but not their 53.

Lucky
08-19-2012, 09:58 AM
I only have five safeties on my final 53. Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Keo with Pleasant landing on the PS. Who's the 6th ?
No, I meant 6 in the organization (5 on the 53, 1 on the PS). Not really necessary. The Texans went 4 safeties for much of 2011. When Manning and Nolan went down, Demps was brought back. They certainly won't activate 5 safeties. 5 on the 53 seems too many, 6 in the organization feels superfluous.

Rey
08-19-2012, 10:03 AM
I have a hard time justifying Brock making the final 53 but cant see going with just two TE's and Casey as much as this offense rely's upon the position. Brock stays for now. Could see a cut from elsewhere factoring in here.

I think we've leaned on the te's heavily in the past because we needed to.

Our wr's werent really getting it done. We had Aj, kw and jacoby.

Aj gets hurt and you're left with basically nothing.


If Jean and Martin are playing well with posey behind them then all of a sudden you have a more formidable receiving corps and you'd want to get them more involved in the offense.

Some mixture of Aj, Jean, Walter, Martin, OD, Casey, and Arian would be hard to stop no matter which 5 you threw out there.

I dont see the need for another blocking TE. If you want an extra blocker on the line just do what they did last year and bring in an extra OT.

I think Brock, supernaw or derrell smith can be stashed on the ps if need be.

If you have an injury just call one if those guys up.

Rey
08-19-2012, 10:06 AM
The Niners will eventually cut a RB (like Dixon or Cartwright) better than Grimes. Grimes might make their practice squad, but not their 53.

You need to go to a 9ers message board because they are worried about their rb depth after last night.

And they don't like Dixon or Cartwright.

And neither Dixon or cartwright are better than grimes.

Lucky
08-19-2012, 10:33 AM
You need to go to a 9ers message board because they are worried about their rb depth after last night.

I don't form my opinions from Niners (or any other) message boards. And I don't think anyone in the NFL believes Grimes is better than Dixon or Cartwright. I guess we shall see.

Marcus
08-19-2012, 12:07 PM
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but as understand it, the only way you make the practice squad is if the other 31 teams don't pick you up after you're waived, correct?

And If that is correct, no way in hell in Keenum gets waived. Kubiak LOVES him to death, and there is no way in hell he is going risk losing him.

Keenum makes the 53. He needed 3 quarterbacks last year, and he'll remember that.

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2012, 11:09 PM
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but as understand it, the only way you make the practice squad is if the other 31 teams don't pick you up after you're waived, correct?

And If that is correct, no way in hell in Keenum gets waived. Kubiak LOVES him to death, and there is no way in hell he is going risk losing him.

Keenum makes the 53. He needed 3 quarterbacks last year, and he'll remember that.

Every season there's some player (usually more) that we're afraid is going to get picked off the waiver wire if we cut him. And then the Texans cut him. And he clears waivers and goes to our PS.

Case Keenum did not get drafted. He hasn't shown enough in the limited time he's had in PS to convince anyone that he's not a system QB and that the reasons they didn't draft him are invalid. Sure... I get it... he chose to come to the Texans and he could have signed as an UDFA with several clubs so there are teams with their eyes on him, but if they nab him, then they have to put him on their 53.

Most likely, he clears waivers if he's cut.

76Texan
08-19-2012, 11:19 PM
Every season there's some player (usually more) that we're afraid is going to get picked off the waiver wire if we cut him. And then the Texans cut him. And he clears waivers and goes to our PS.

Case Keenum did not get drafted. He hasn't shown enough in the limited time he's had in PS to convince anyone that he's not a system QB and that the reasons they didn't draft him are invalid. Sure... I get it... he chose to come to the Texans and he could have signed as an UDFA with several clubs so there are teams with their eyes on him, but if they nab him, then they have to put him on their 53.

Most likely, he clears waivers if he's cut.

He has shown me plenty.

The two incompletions in the Niners game were both pretty close.
I would say if the receivers went up with one hand, they had a decent chance to pull the ball in.

On the long ball, Posey went up with both hands and the ball was off his fingertips.

On the side-line pass, Iglesias started by trying to stretch out both hands; when he finally decided to go with one hand, the ball was also off his fingertips.

Sure, I would have liked the passes to be more accurate, but a receiver like AJ would catch those balls, I'm pretty sure - simply because he's taller/has a better wing span/jumps higher/stretches better, not to mention that he can judge how to go after the ball better (timing).

76Texan
08-19-2012, 11:52 PM
The most important thing is that Keenum made all the correct reads.
He's playing mistake-free football.

The rest are small details that more reps can cure.

rmartin65
08-20-2012, 06:10 AM
Keenum threw 3 passes Saturday.

The first was gorgeous. Excellent touch off of the rollout. A smidge behind the receiver (had to catch it in his back shoulder), but if you are critiquing that then you are a pretty tough grader.

The 2nd was an overthrow. He was not throwing it to AJ, he was throwing it to Posey. QBs dont throw the same ball to every player. You throw it differently to small players, tall players, fast players, slow players, etc. It was a bad throw.

The 3rd throw was extremely dangerous, because it was a bad throw. If the receiver had not stretched out to tip it away, that ball is being returned to the house. Case simply led the receiver too far.

It is unrealistic/too nice to Keenum if you excuse all of his incomplete passes by saying that an All-Pro receiver like AJ would catch them. Most QBs would look good if they had a receiving corp of AJ, Megatron and Fitzgerald to throw to.

Now, I am not saying Keenum is a scrub. He has a good arm, and is pretty mobile. But he is short, has had limited reps in the pre-season to unimpressive results, and was skipped over by every team in the draft just a few months ago. Odds are, a team wont use a roster spot on a player like that.

speedfreek
08-20-2012, 09:46 AM
I'm honestly starting to think that Kubiak is limiting Keenum's reps on purpose -- in an attempt to hide what the kid can do from other teams -- so he can try to stash him on the PS.

There's no other reason why the guy is taking knees on his second possession twice in a row --- specially when the one thing this team needs more than anything else is to evaluate players and come up with better ways to increase redzone efficiency.

No reason to start the victory formation in preseason with 2+ minutes left. Even San Fran went for it on 4th down to get a little live-fire practice against another team. The Texans essentially started the last drive in the red zone!

Hell, I thought that was Harbaugh being nice to Kubiak in an attempt to get Keenum another shot. Or to get Bullock another shot at a FG (just my opinion on it..)

TJ

HOU-TEX
08-20-2012, 09:51 AM
Is it just me, or have any of y'all been really unimpressed by Bradie James? Dobbins has had an outstanding preseason so far. At this point, I'd rather see him as our 2 down ILB rather than James. I'm not saying we should let James go, but we should give Dobbins a shot if we truly folllow the "best man wins" competition.

76Texan
08-20-2012, 09:59 AM
I'm honestly starting to think that Kubiak is limiting Keenum's reps on purpose -- in an attempt to hide what the kid can do from other teams -- so he can try to stash him on the PS.

There's no other reason why the guy is taking knees on his second possession twice in a row --- specially when the one thing this team needs more than anything else is to evaluate players and come up with better ways to increase redzone efficiency.

No reason to start the victory formation in preseason with 2+ minutes left. Even San Fran went for it on 4th down to get a little live-fire practice against another team. The Texans essentially started the last drive in the red zone!

Hell, I thought that was Harbaugh being nice to Kubiak in an attempt to get Keenum another shot. Or to get Bullock another shot at a FG (just my opinion on it..)

TJ

I know!
My brother-in-law was furious that Kubiak didn't let people see a little more of Keenum.
Make it hard to evaluate his play.

He did the same thing in the Panthers game.
We had the ball on the Car 19 with 1:38 to go.
Kubiak called a run for Meggett that gained 6 then ordered Keenum to kneel twice to end the game.

76Texan
08-20-2012, 10:02 AM
Keenum threw 3 passes Saturday.

The first was gorgeous. Excellent touch off of the rollout. A smidge behind the receiver (had to catch it in his back shoulder), but if you are critiquing that then you are a pretty tough grader.

The 2nd was an overthrow. He was not throwing it to AJ, he was throwing it to Posey. QBs dont throw the same ball to every player. You throw it differently to small players, tall players, fast players, slow players, etc. It was a bad throw.

The 3rd throw was extremely dangerous, because it was a bad throw. If the receiver had not stretched out to tip it away, that ball is being returned to the house. Case simply led the receiver too far.

It is unrealistic/too nice to Keenum if you excuse all of his incomplete passes by saying that an All-Pro receiver like AJ would catch them. Most QBs would look good if they had a receiving corp of AJ, Megatron and Fitzgerald to throw to.

Now, I am not saying Keenum is a scrub. He has a good arm, and is pretty mobile. But he is short, has had limited reps in the pre-season to unimpressive results, and was skipped over by every team in the draft just a few months ago. Odds are, a team wont use a roster spot on a player like that.

I've already warned people about overexpectation.
I told Thorn that neither Leinart nor Yates did much last pre-season.
Both of them made the roster.

I just finished reviewing Yates' performance during last PS; I will put it up in a seperate thread and we can compare their plays.

rmartin65
08-20-2012, 10:05 AM
I've already warned people about overexpectation.
I told Thorn that neither Leinart nor Yates did much last pre-season.
Both of them made the roster.

I just finished reviewing Yates' performance during last PS; I will put it up in a seperate thread and we can compare their plays.

Yates was a 6'4" 5th round draft pick from a college that played a pro style offense. Totally different than Keenum.

Leinart was a Heisman winning, former top 10 draft pick who had started games at the NFL. Again, totally different than Keenum.

Rey
08-20-2012, 10:05 AM
I'm honestly starting to think that Kubiak is limiting Keenum's reps on purpose -- in an attempt to hide what the kid can do from other teams -- so he can try to stash him on the PS.
TJ

Well, Keenum was played ahead of beck so I don't think that's what he was doing.

Also, in that last game Keenum should see a bunch of action.

76Texan
08-20-2012, 10:08 AM
Yates was a 6'4" 5th round draft pick from a college that played a pro style offense. Totally different than Keenum.

Leinart was a Heisman winning, former top 10 draft pick who had started games at the NFL. Again, totally different than Keenum.

Even 1st round draft picks got cut if they don't perform.
Plenty of drafted players never made it to the 53-man roster their first year.

rmartin65
08-20-2012, 10:15 AM
Even 1st round draft picks got cut if they don't perform.
Plenty of drafted players never made it to the 53-man roster their first year.

True, but it DOES matter. If you are a draft pick, you will get more chances than if you are undrafted.

Keenum may make the team- I am not saying he has no chance to. I am just saying that the hype surrounding this kid from UoH grads is getting ridiculous.

Looking strictly at the facts:

Keenum played in a college-style offense that does not easily translate into the pro game.

Keenum is a solid 2 inches shorter than the preferred height for a QB.

Keenum went undrafted just a couple months ago.

Keenum, since going undrafted, has thrown 6 passes in game action, completing 3 for 53 yards. To the best of my knowledge, none of these incompletions was due to a drop by the receiver. At least one could have been picked if not for the play of the receiver.

So, honestly, how much could his stock have risen?

Rey
08-20-2012, 10:27 AM
3 for 533?!?!??

Oh yeah...he's making the team...

rmartin65
08-20-2012, 10:28 AM
3 for 533?!?!??

Oh yeah...he's making the team...

Haha, I went back and fixed that. That would certainly be impressive.

76Texan
08-20-2012, 10:35 AM
At least one could have been picked if not for the play of the receiver.



You may want to rewatch that play, RMartin.

There was a corner blitz going on.
The rest of the defense reverted back into a 42 zone.

Keenum made the correct read, seeing that the RB going downfield with the safety supposedly taking him on (this is the defender that was closest to the ball).

The other defender covering Iglesias was a LB.

Correct read by Keenum.

In the NFL, that is called a wide-open receiver.
You expect the QB to throw the ball there 10 out of 10 times.

The safety made a good read and had a good start; however, if the pass was a few inches closer to the receiver, there's no chance for an INT.
(or if Iglesias had stretched out with one hand from the start).

rmartin65
08-20-2012, 10:39 AM
You may want to rewatch that play, RMartin.

There was a corner blitz going on.
The rest of the defense reverted back into a 42 zone.

Keenum made the correct read, seeing that the RB going downfield with the safety supposedly taking him on (this is the defender that was closest to the ball).

The other defender covering Iglesias was a LB.

Correct read by Keenum.

In the NFL, that is called a wide-open receiver.
You expect the QB to throw the ball there 10 out of 10 times.

The safety made a good read and had a good start; however, if the pass was a few inches closer to the receiver, there's no chance for an INT.
(or if Iglesias had stretched out with one hand from the start).

I deleted the game from my DVR, so I am working from memory here.

I dont doubt the corner blitz, or the zone. Neither do I contest that he made the right read. However, the ball being a couple inches off is the problem. It was not a good enough pass. You say it yourself, basically.

Dutchrudder
08-20-2012, 10:44 AM
I deleted the game from my DVR, so I am working from memory here.

I dont doubt the corner blitz, or the zone. Neither do I contest that he made the right read. However, the ball being a couple inches off is the problem. It was not a good enough pass. You say it yourself, basically.

Go to the tech section to get a copy of the game...

:brando:

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2012, 10:59 AM
Is it just me, or have any of y'all been really unimpressed by Bradie James? Dobbins has had an outstanding preseason so far. At this point, I'd rather see him as our 2 down ILB rather than James. I'm not saying we should let James go, but we should give Dobbins a shot if we truly folllow the "best man wins" competition.

I'm not seeing much of anything from James. He's got 3 assists so far this pre-season.

Rey
08-20-2012, 11:10 AM
I'm not seeing much of anything from James. He's got 3 assists so far this pre-season.

I said it someone on here, but I'm tempted to say dobbins should be the starter next to Cushing.

That missed tackle last game was pretty disturbing too.

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2012, 11:23 AM
I said it someone on here, but I'm tempted to say dobbins should be the starter next to Cushing.

That missed tackle last game was pretty disturbing too.

Yeah. No way that guy should have gotten away from him.

Right now, Dobbins is crushing it. Didn't like the facemask call but at least he's flying around and near the ball.

James, not so much.

Thorn
08-20-2012, 11:42 AM
As much of a Case Keenum fan as I am, and I am, I have to agree I haven't seen enough yet to justify him being on the final 53 man roster. Then again, the same can be said for Beck.

Rey
08-20-2012, 12:41 PM
Heard on the radio this morning that a scout from green bay says that if grimes is let go they will definitely pick him up. Fwiw.

speedfreek
08-20-2012, 01:02 PM
The packers were supposedly one of the teams that made a UDFA offer on Keenum.

From what I've seen this year, they should probably focus more on defensive pickups.. :peek:

TJ

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 02:22 PM
I think we have about 5 to 10 players that if they're released will be picked up immediately. I honestly like Grimes on the roster more than Forsett at this point. I wasn't in that mindset before, but its where I am today. Need to see more these next 2 games though. That's why I'm baffled why some people want to shorten the preseason to 2 games. All 4 games are important to evaluate talent in my opinion.

Thorn
08-20-2012, 02:30 PM
I think we have about 5 to 10 players that if they're released will be picked up immediately. I honestly like Grimes on the roster more than Forsett at this point. I wasn't in that mindset before, but its where I am today. Need to see more these next 2 games though. That's why I'm baffled why some people want to shorten the preseason to 2 games. All 4 games are important to evaluate talent in my opinion.

I completely agree with this. The four pre-season games are there for a reason, and I would not like them taken away. I'm also against adding any more games to the season. Things are just fine the way they are.

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2012, 02:33 PM
I think we have about 5 to 10 players that if they're released will be picked up immediately. I honestly like Grimes on the roster more than Forsett at this point. I wasn't in that mindset before, but its where I am today. Need to see more these next 2 games though. That's why I'm baffled why some people want to shorten the preseason to 2 games. All 4 games are important to evaluate talent in my opinion.

WE, the fans, need 4 games to figure out who's who and evaluate our team's talent. The coaches don't. They've seen what these guys can do.

According to Billick, by this time, the coaches know 50 of the players that are going to be on the 53. And those last 3 are going to be hard, coin-flip type choices whether they choose now or after the 4th preseason game.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 02:35 PM
WE, the fans, need 4 games to figure out who's who and evaluate our team's talent. The coaches don't. They've seen what these guys can do.

According to Billick, by this time, the coaches know 50 of the players that are going to be on the 53. And those last 3 are going to be hard, coin-flip type choices whether they choose now or after the 4th preseason game.

I've heard from plenty of coaches who disagree. You have good practice players and players who simply get it done when the lights come on. By Billick's logic, Victor Cruz would still be some scrub not on a roster.

Thorn
08-20-2012, 02:40 PM
Who gives a **** what Bellicheat thinks anyhow.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 02:43 PM
Who gives a **** what Bellicheat thinks anyhow.

haha, I think he's talking about Brian Billick Thorn. The coach who isn't even a coach right now.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 02:47 PM
“Some guys, when the lights go on, they get a little bit better,” Texans coach Gary Kubiak said Sunday. “It seems like this is that type of young man.”


Kubiak's quote about Lestar Jean. You need to see these guys in as many game situations as possible. Tim Tebow is one guy who is simply a gamer. If you judged him simply on practice he wouldn't even be in the league right now.

Thorn
08-20-2012, 02:59 PM
haha, I think he's talking about Brian Billick Thorn. The coach who isn't even a coach right now.

He is, and my mistake on that one. Still though, no one is talking me out of my belief that only two pre-season games are enough. I don't like the idea of two pre-season games and 18 regular season games. Just don't like it.

And, of course, I hate Bellicheat. Billick is OK as far as a talking head on TV goes, but I don't always agree with what he says.

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2012, 03:01 PM
I've heard from plenty of coaches who disagree. You have good practice players and players who simply get it done when the lights come on. By Billick's logic, Victor Cruz would still be some scrub not on a roster.

You're assuming that Victor Cruz wasn't making the team until he had a big day against the Jets. If he wasn't already performing in camp, that big day wouldn't have gotten him on to the team. You get guys putting on shows in preseason games every year who never make it. Performance in a single game doesn't make someone's career.

Who holds the Texan's record for sacks in a preseason game? IIRC, Stylez G. White had 6 sacks against the Buccs several years ago. Has he turned into a star because of that 1 performance? No. He bounced around and finally stuck with the Buccs for a few years.

And how about 2010 when Cruz had those great performances? Who were the other WRs putting on big shows? Adrian Arrington, Matt Willis, Max Komar. What have they done? Something like 30 passes caught between them over the course of their entire NFL careers so far.

Someone like Victor Cruz having a breakout game against the Jets brings him to the attention of the fans but the coaches on the Giants already knew who he was and what he could do.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 03:08 PM
You're assuming that Victor Cruz wasn't making the team until he had a big day against the Jets. If he wasn't already performing in camp, that big day wouldn't have gotten him on to the team. You get guys putting on shows in preseason games every year who never make it. Performance in a single game doesn't make someone's career.

Who holds the Texan's record for sacks in a preseason game? IIRC, Stylez G. White had 6 sacks against the Buccs several years ago. Has he turned into a star because of that 1 performance? No. He bounced around and finally stuck with the Buccs for a few years.

And how about 2010 when Cruz had those great performances? Who were the other WRs putting on big shows? Adrian Arrington, Matt Willis, Max Komar. What have they done? Something like 30 passes caught between them over the course of their entire NFL careers so far.

Someone like Victor Cruz having a breakout game against the Jets brings him to the attention of the fans but the coaches on the Giants already knew who he was and what he could do.

Victor Cruz caught Rex Ryan's attention who said that if he was released they were going to sign him. He wouldn't have even known who he was had he not had that big game against him. Is Rex Ryan just a fan? To think that a player can't catch the attention of his coach when the real bullets are flying is silly. I just quoted Kubiak talking about Jean. He's had his struggles in camp at times so far, but he just makes plays when then lights are on. Its one thing to look at stats, but its a completely different monster to EVALUATE talent during a game. I hate fantasy football because it's all about stats.

The Giants also said that Victor Cruz probably wasn't going to make the team before that big game. They were too scared to release him because they knew someone was going to pick him up after that. Preseason means a lot for players.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 03:12 PM
He is, and my mistake on that one. Still though, no one is talking me out of my belief that only two pre-season games are enough. I don't like the idea of two pre-season games and 18 regular season games. Just don't like it.

And, of course, I hate Bellicheat. Billick is OK as far as a talking head on TV goes, but I don't always agree with what he says.

I don't agree with Billick most of the time. To me, he was overrated as a head coach which is probably why he still doesn't have a head coaching job. I don't want to derail the thread though, but he's the Skip Bayless of former head coaches in my opinion. I take what he says with a grain of salt because I think he says a lot of things for shock value.

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2012, 03:30 PM
Victor Cruz caught Rex Ryan's attention who said that if he was released they were going to sign him. He wouldn't have even known who he was had he not had that big game against him. Is Rex Ryan just a fan? To think that a player can't catch the attention of his coach when the real bullets are flying is silly. I just quoted Kubiak talking about Jean. He's had his struggles in camp at times so far, but he just makes plays when then lights are on. Its one thing to look at stats, but its a completely different monster to EVALUATE talent during a game. I hate fantasy football because it's all about stats.

The Giants also said that Victor Cruz probably wasn't going to make the team before that big game. They were too scared to release him because they knew someone was going to pick him up after that. Preseason means a lot for players.

Who does Rex Ryan coach? The Jets. Who has he been seeing in practice every day? The Jets. Has he been seeing the Giant's players? No. He knows about as much about the Giants players as a regular fan does. A hardcore Giants fan knows more about the Giants roster than Rex Ryan does. Rex Ryan doesn't have enough time in his day to be going over every team in the NFL and learning every player on them.

And who on the Giants said that Victor Cruz wasn't going to make the team before that big game? I'd like to see that quote.

Right here and right now, most of us hardcore Texans fans can sit down and name 40-45 of the guys who are going to be on the Texans squad at the beginning of the season and be dead-on. We're going to over-value some guys and we're going to undervalue other guys because we base our judgments almost entirely on the preseason games. But even with that, most of us will agree on the core of the team and argue over 7-8 positions. You're basically telling me you think the COACHES know less than we do? The coaches see more than we do and they know more than we do. They know if they're thinking about making moves and they know if some guy isn't performing.

I'm not saying that these games aren't important to the fringe players. They are. But the majority of the evaluation is done on the practice field.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 03:42 PM
Who does Rex Ryan coach? The Jets. Who has he been seeing in practice every day? The Jets. Has he been seeing the Giant's players? No. He knows about as much about the Giants players as a regular fan does. A hardcore Giants fan knows more about the Giants roster than Rex Ryan does. Rex Ryan doesn't have enough time in his day to be going over every team in the NFL and learning every player on them.

And who on the Giants said that Victor Cruz wasn't going to make the team before that big game? I'd like to see that quote.

Right here and right now, most of us hardcore Texans fans can sit down and name 40-45 of the guys who are going to be on the Texans squad at the beginning of the season and be dead-on. We're going to over-value some guys and we're going to undervalue other guys because we base our judgments almost entirely on the preseason games. But even with that, most of us will agree on the core of the team and argue over 7-8 positions. You're basically telling me you think the COACHES know less than we do? The coaches see more than we do and they know more than we do. They know if they're thinking about making moves and they know if some guy isn't performing.

I'm not saying that these games aren't important to the fringe players. They are. But the majority of the evaluation is done on the practice field.

It was said plenty last year that he wasn't likely to be on their team before that game.

But I will give you this story straight from someone who's played the game. Mike Tolbert of the Panters (formerly the Chargers) didn't raise any eyebrows during training camp and the Chargers were only planning on keeping 1 fullback. He had a couple of really good preseason games and ended up playing a big role for them that year.

Guys catch the attention of coaches during the games. What good is a player if he can't produce when the lights come on? I know guys who have been in coaching rooms during evaluation. Preseason matters for the guys on the back end of the roster. Hell, it matters for guys on the front end for the roster as well. If you can find a player whose contract is a lot less than a veteran, produces just as much, and is younger then you go with the cheaper option. You are going to find these things out when the bullets start flying. Practice can only tell you so much.

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2012, 04:10 PM
It was said plenty last year that he wasn't likely to be on their team before that game.

But I will give you this story straight from someone who's played the game. Mike Tolbert of the Panters (formerly the Chargers) didn't raise any eyebrows during training camp and the Chargers were only planning on keeping 1 fullback. He had a couple of really good preseason games and ended up playing a big role for them that year.

Guys catch the attention of coaches during the games. What good is a player if he can't produce when the lights come on? I know guys who have been in coaching rooms during evaluation. Preseason matters for the guys on the back end of the roster. Hell, it matters for guys on the front end for the roster as well. If you can find a player whose contract is a lot less than a veteran, produces just as much, and is younger then you go with the cheaper option. You are going to find these things out when the bullets start flying. Practice can only tell you so much.

So, answer me this... who said it? Who said Victor Cruz wasn't making the team before that game? Who said Mike Tolbert wasn't making the Chargers before flashing in the pre-season games?

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 04:14 PM
So, answer me this... who said it? Who said Victor Cruz wasn't making the team before that game? Who said Mike Tolbert wasn't making the Chargers before flashing in the pre-season games?

Ladainian Tomlinson said it. If you think that he wasn't heavily wired in to roster moves in the backfield at that time then I don't know what to tell you. He still wasn't too thrilled about him being on the roster because he wasn't a striker as a fullback.

As far as Victor Cruz goes, there were plenty of pieces on ESPN, Fox, etc last year talking about how that game propelled him. Without him producing in the preseason he isn't on that team. They were looking for someone to step up. He did. You want guys to make the team in the games. We talkin' about practice? Not the games, not the games but practice?

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2012, 05:32 PM
Ladainian Tomlinson said it. If you think that he wasn't heavily wired in to roster moves in the backfield at that time then I don't know what to tell you. He still wasn't too thrilled about him being on the roster because he wasn't a striker as a fullback.

As far as Victor Cruz goes, there were plenty of pieces on ESPN, Fox, etc last year talking about how that game propelled him. Without him producing in the preseason he isn't on that team. They were looking for someone to step up. He did. You want guys to make the team in the games. We talkin' about practice? Not the games, not the games but practice?

So how many pre-season games did they need? All 4?

Victor Cruz went off in the 1st game of the preseason against the Jets. First game. He didn't need all 4.

Tolbert? In his first pre-season, he went 5 rushes for 22 yards. Not exactly blowing things up. And his second year, he had 3 rushes for < 20 yards and no rushes in the all-important 3rd game. Gartrell Johnson and Michael Bennett blew up in pre-season for the Chargers that year when it came to rushing. If Mike Tolbert blew up in preseason, it was after Tomlinson was a Jet.

And that brings up... Gartrell Johnson. Leading the Chargers in rushing in the preseason in 2009 and spends the year with the Giants. The next year with the Falcons. And then he's out of football with 23 career rushes and 79 career yards to his name.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 05:42 PM
So how many pre-season games did they need? All 4?

Victor Cruz went off in the 1st game of the preseason against the Jets. First game. He didn't need all 4.

Tolbert? In his first pre-season, he went 5 rushes for 22 yards. Not exactly blowing things up. And his second year, he had 3 rushes for < 20 yards and no rushes in the all-important 3rd game. Gartrell Johnson and Michael Bennett blew up in pre-season for the Chargers that year when it came to rushing. If Mike Tolbert blew up in preseason, it was after Tomlinson was a Jet.

And that brings up... Gartrell Johnson. Leading the Chargers in rushing in the preseason in 2009 and spends the year with the Giants. The next year with the Falcons. And then he's out of football with 23 career rushes and 79 career yards to his name.

If there were only 2 preseason games you think Victor Cruz gets that same opportunity to shine? No, because the starters would play more. Your argument about the games not mattering is silly. You can continue to throw all these stats out there but you don't know what you're talking about.

Tolbert had an awesome preseason as a blocker his rookie year. Your precious stats won't show you that though. They let Lorenzo Neal go and went with Pinnock and Hester at fullback for a few years. LT was with Tolbert the last 2 years he was in San Diego. How are you going to tell me he didn't have a good preseason while he was there? He made the team by his performance in the preseason. Listen man, stats don't always tell the whole story. If you don't know that then your knowledge as a fan is severely lacking.

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2012, 06:00 PM
If there were only 2 preseason games you think Victor Cruz gets that same opportunity to shine? No, because the starters would play more. Your argument about the games not mattering is silly. You can continue to throw all these stats out there but you don't know what you're talking about.

Tolbert had an awesome preseason as a blocker his rookie year. Your precious stats won't show you that though. They let Lorenzo Neal go and went with Pinnock and Hester at fullback for a few years. LT was with Tolbert the last 2 years he was in San Diego. How are you going to tell me he didn't have a good preseason while he was there? He made the team by his performance in the preseason. Listen man, stats don't always tell the whole story. If you don't know that then your knowledge as a fan is severely lacking.

At least be consistent:
Ladainian Tomlinson said it. If you think that he wasn't heavily wired in to roster moves in the backfield at that time then I don't know what to tell you. He still wasn't too thrilled about him being on the roster because he wasn't a striker as a fullback.

Did he have a great pre-season as a blocker or was he not a striker as a fullback? Which was it?

And I did some research on Victor Cruz. You're absolutely right. BUT you're also absolutely wrong.

I guess Victor Cruz wasn't doing it in practice and training camp for the Giants. As a matter of fact (if rumor is to be believed), the coaches wanted to cut him even after that great preseason. That feeds in to what I was saying, flashing in the games doesn't make that big of a difference to the coaches. Even after that huge preseason he had, the coaches were going to waive him. They thought he needed more time on the practice squad.

But the owners and front office heard they were going to cut Cruz and they came to Cruz's rescue because they knew he wouldn't clear waivers and they didn't want him to become a Jet. And Rex Ryan had said he'd sign him if he got cut.

So, you're right about Cruz getting saved and how. But that story also proves my point. In almost all cases, putting up some gaudy stats in the preseason won't get you a job unless you're showing you're a professional in practice.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 06:09 PM
At least be consistent:


Did he have a great pre-season as a blocker or was he not a striker as a fullback? Which was it?

And I did some research on Victor Cruz. You're absolutely right. BUT you're also absolutely wrong.

I guess Victor Cruz wasn't doing it in practice and training camp for the Giants. As a matter of fact (if rumor is to be believed), the coaches wanted to cut him even after that great preseason. That feeds in to what I was saying, flashing in the games doesn't make that big of a difference to the coaches. Even after that huge preseason he had, the coaches were going to waive him. They thought he needed more time on the practice squad.

But the owners and front office heard they were going to cut Cruz and they came to Cruz's rescue because they knew he wouldn't clear waivers and they didn't want him to become a Jet. And Rex Ryan had said he'd sign him if he got cut.

So, you're right about Cruz getting saved and how. But that story also proves my point. In almost all cases, putting up some gaudy stats in the preseason won't get you a job unless you're showing you're a professional in practice.

And this is exactly why you don't know what you're talking about. When he said he wasn't a striker he meant that his blocking style was different from Lo Neal. LT played behind him for years and was used to him blowing guys up. Tolbert was a lot smaller, and used positioning more with his blocking. He did it well, but that's not what LT was used to. Running Back is an art and you get used to certain guys and how they block. He didn't prefer how Tolbert blocked. When you go from an all time FB to a guy like Tolbert there is a big difference. But anyone who watched the games still knew that Tolbert was playing well. His blocking style is similar to Casey's. Tolbert is a much better blocker, but he isn't gonna demolish guys like Lo Neal or Leach.

Dude, and about Cruz listen to what you're saying. It doesn't make any sense. The coaches were too scared to cut him because they knew another team would snatch him up! Why? Because he balled in the preseason games. They knew because he played so well in the preseason that there was no way they could afford to let him sneak away. You're making my case for me. Practice will only show you so much. When the lights turn on that's what really matters. You're normally pretty sane when it comes to your football takes, but you sound asinine with this one.

steelbtexan
08-20-2012, 06:26 PM
I completely agree with this. The four pre-season games are there for a reason, and I would not like them taken away. I'm also against adding any more games to the season. Things are just fine the way they are.

Ummm....

Paying full price for 4 glorified scrimmages isn't something season ticketholders agree with.

SteveSlaton20
08-20-2012, 06:59 PM
John Beck looked good against the Panthers in game 1, and didn't get any chance against the Niners because Kubiak wanted to start Case Keenum(for some I reason I think it's because he's the "hometown kid", not because he's better.

John Beck has experience in this system in Washington and he's a veteran, and we all know how much Kubiak loves veterans, I think Beck will be the 3rd QB on the depth chart and Keenum will be on the PS. And I really doubt anyone will pick up Keenum off the waivers list.

SteveSlaton20
08-20-2012, 07:02 PM
BTW Victor Cruz was injured after his great preseason and he was put on the IR, so no one could pick him up, and the Giants kept him on the team after he was healthy, which was last season.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 07:04 PM
BTW Victor Cruz was injured after his great preseason and he was put on the IR, so no one could pick him up, and the Giants kept him on the team after he was healthy, which was last season.

He had the same injury Lestar Jean had last year.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 07:07 PM
He wasn't placed on IR until oct 16th though. Well into the season.

SteveSlaton20
08-20-2012, 07:11 PM
He wasn't placed on IR until oct 16th though. Well into the season.

Yeah, sorry, that's true. For some reason i thought he was injured in the preseason. But he only played three games and didn't have any catches.

Not to mention it's much harder to make it on the NFL roster as an UDFA QB. And Case hasn't done anything in the preseason yet that will make teams get him if the Texans waived him.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 07:14 PM
Yeah, sorry, that's true. For some reason i thought he was injured in the preseason. But he only played three games and didn't have any catches.

Not to mention it's much harder to make it on the NFL roster as an UDFA QB. And Case hasn't done anything in the preseason yet that will make teams get him if the Texans waived him.

My point was that he made the team through his preseason performance. If he goes out and plays terrible then he doesn't make the team. This idea that preseason games doesn't matter makes as much sense as me trying out for Miss America. Tell that to Braman who also had a big preseason last year that helped him make the team.

dalemurphy
08-20-2012, 08:10 PM
John Beck looked good against the Panthers in game 1, and didn't get any chance against the Niners because Kubiak wanted to start Case Keenum(for some I reason I think it's because he's the "hometown kid", not because he's better.

John Beck has experience in this system in Washington and he's a veteran, and we all know how much Kubiak loves veterans, I think Beck will be the 3rd QB on the depth chart and Keenum will be on the PS. And I really doubt anyone will pick up Keenum off the waivers list.

Here's the issue: If Beck is the #3, then the Texans lose a roster spot (50 minus QBs)... If Keenum is the #3, then the Texans gain a roster spot (51 minus QBs) because he can be stashed on the practice squad... that's the issue.

Corrosion
08-20-2012, 08:29 PM
After rewatching the SF game , gonna try this again - taking into consideration the input of a couple good posts in this thread.


Offense - 24
QB – Schaub, Yates, Keenum
RB – Foster, Tate, Grimes
FB – Casey, Norris
TE – Daniels, Graham
T – Brown, Butler, Newton
G – W.Smith, Caldwell, Brooks, S.Smith
C – Myers, Jones
WR – Johnson, Walter, Martin, Jean , Posey

Defense - 25
DE – Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT – Cody, Mitchell, Harris
OLB – Barwin, Reed, Mercilus, Braman, Nading
ILB – Cushing, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB – Joseph, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael
S – Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

Special Teams - 4
LS – Weeks
K – Bullock
P – Jones
PR/KR - Holliday


PUP List – Hartmann, Sharpton
IR Stash –

Practice Squad –
Brock
Mondek
Loiseau
Williams
Fangupo
Jerrell Jackson (wr)
Pleasant
Meggett


Two changes from my last list -

Have Keenum making the final 53, dropping Brock, he's done nodda to earn it. Having Casey as the #1 FB #3 TE gives roster flexability.

Bumping Keo and replacing with Nading. His ST play earns him a roster spot. The other guy I considered was McManis. This will be a difficult decision as you could make an arguement for all three players. Just dont think you can have enough depth at the LB spots ....

There is always the option to place Keenum on the PS opening up another spot for a TE , ILB (Sharpton) or CB (McManis).

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 08:33 PM
After rewatching the SF game , gonna try this again - taking into consideration the input of a couple good posts in this thread.


Offense - 24
QB – Schaub, Yates, Keenum
RB – Foster, Tate, Grimes
FB – Casey, Norris
TE – Daniels, Graham
T – Brown, Butler, Newton
G – W.Smith, Caldwell, Brooks, S.Smith
C – Myers, Jones
WR – Johnson, Walter, Martin, Jean , Posey

Defense - 25
DE – Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT – Cody, Mitchell, Harris
OLB – Barwin, Reed, Mercilus, Braman, Nading
ILB – Cushing, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB – Joseph, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Carmichael
S – Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

Special Teams - 4
LS – Weeks
K – Bullock
P – Jones
PR/KR - Holliday


PUP List – Hartmann, Sharpton
IR Stash –

Practice Squad –
Brock
Mondek
Loiseau
Williams
Fangupo
Jerrell Jackson (wr)
Pleasant
Meggett


Two changes from my last list -

Have Keenum making the final 53, dropping Brock, he's done nodda to earn it. Having Casey as the #1 FB #3 TE gives roster flexability.

Bumping Keo and replacing with Nading. His ST play earns him a roster spot. The other guy I considered was McManis. This will be a difficult decision as you could make an arguement for all three players. Just dont think you can have enough depth at the LB spots ....

There is always the option to place Keenum on the PS opening up another spot for a TE , ILB (Sharpton) or CB (McManis).

I like it, but McManis is going to be tough to leave off. I think we go with 6 Corners and Nading or Harris gets left off. Great job though!

Corrosion
08-20-2012, 08:49 PM
I like it, but McManis is going to be tough to leave off. I think we go with 6 Corners and Nading or Harris gets left off. Great job though!

Like i said , the debate between McManis and Nading is going to be a tough one. I just couldnt find a way to keep both. Nading is Marciano's guy on ST. Hard to envision him not making the cut.

Even if Keenum goes to the PS , what happens when Sharpton is ready to come off the PUP - someone has to go , who is it?! Maybe you dump Alexander in favor of Sharpton but he's also a good ST player.

I cant see Harris being left off .... would sure be a waste of a 2nd round pick. He has looked pretty good of late. I think he's a lock.

The cuts this year will include some very good players , they could easily make other rosters.
Kubiak has been known to cut guy's who he has no intention of keeping early , especially veterans , giving them the opportunity to catch on elsewhere ... Maybe we see a surprise cut in the first round of cuts that makes some of these decisions easier.

This is a far cry from figuring out who stays and who goes on an expansion team .... Im a happy fan. :specnatz:

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 09:05 PM
This is a far cry from figuring out who stays and who goes on an expansion team .... Im a happy fan. :specnatz:

You and me both. Its nice to know we're choosing between releasing good players and not scrubs. No one wanted the trash we released in our early years. We'll have a few players plucked from our cuts this year.

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2012, 09:12 PM
And this is exactly why you don't know what you're talking about. When he said he wasn't a striker he meant that his blocking style was different from Lo Neal. LT played behind him for years and was used to him blowing guys up. Tolbert was a lot smaller, and used positioning more with his blocking. He did it well, but that's not what LT was used to. Running Back is an art and you get used to certain guys and how they block. He didn't prefer how Tolbert blocked. When you go from an all time FB to a guy like Tolbert there is a big difference. But anyone who watched the games still knew that Tolbert was playing well. His blocking style is similar to Casey's. Tolbert is a much better blocker, but he isn't gonna demolish guys like Lo Neal or Leach.


I've never heard that term used for a blocker. You would think that the term "striker" would imply someone who blows people up, not someone who uses positioning and leverage to block. Not the other way around. If I ever hear that term used that way again, I'll keep it in mind.


Dude, and about Cruz listen to what you're saying. It doesn't make any sense. The coaches were too scared to cut him because they knew another team would snatch him up! Why? Because he balled in the preseason games. They knew because he played so well in the preseason that there was no way they could afford to let him sneak away. You're making my case for me. Practice will only show you so much. When the lights turn on that's what really matters.

This is the point...

It wasn't the COACHES who were afraid to cut him. The coaches were going to. The coaches thought he needed more time to develop. They'd already filed the paperwork with the GM to cut him.

It was the NON-COACHES who were part of the front office who didn't want him cut.

You're normally pretty sane when it comes to your football takes, but you sound asinine with this one.

Dude. I'm always asinine. It's part of my charm.

Think about this for just a second.

Billick said that by the second preseason game, most coaches know 50 of their 53. That leaves 3 guys trying to play themselves onto the team. 3 guys. Per team. Per season.

That's 96 guys per year.

You've found a couple of cases.

Out of 96 cases per year.

So let's say Cruz and Tolbert played themselves onto their teams, so what?

Now think about a team we all know and love, the Texans. How many guys do we already KNOW are going to be on the team? Or did we know before this last game...

On the offense (18): Schaub, TJ, AJ, KW, Keshawn, Lestar, Devier, OD, Garrett, Casey, Chris Myers, Ben Jones, Caldwell, Wade Smith, Brandon Brooks, DB, Rashad Butler, Derek Newton.

On the defense (21): Watt, Antonio, Cody, Jamison, Crick, Mitchell, Reed, Barwin, Cushing, James, Mercilus, Braman, Alexander, Quin, Manning, Demps, Nolan, JJo, KJ, Harris, McCain.

On special teams (2): Weeks, Donnie. (I'm not sure if we should count the kicker's battle.)

From the rotations used, it looks like Dobbins and Sunny Harris are definitely in. Possibly Shelley Smith. That's 43 or 44 guys from the outside looking in. We fans don't know what they're planning or if they've already made up their minds about the QB situation, which FB to go with, which TEs and about Forsett/Grimes/Meggett.

What you're trying to tell me is that haven't already made their minds up on 6-7 guys more than I have even though they have a lot more data. I have to say I agree with Billick in this case. I think the coaches have most of the team already in place in their heads by this point.

* We can count Trindon as 1 of the 3 who's played his way on to the team, I think.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 09:21 PM
TPN put the bottle down. Like I said he said Tolbert wasn't a striker meaning he didn't blow people up. I really do respect your football knowledge so I'll chalk this one up to you having a momentary lapse of sanity. Nothing you're saying is making sense to me. You're saying that players can ball in practice and not apply it in games! If that makes sense to anyone then I think they need their heads examined. Coaches have to see guys perform when it counts. How many players have we heard about who looked good in practice but we never saw it in games? Dorin Dickerson ring a bell? Dude seriously, put the bottle down. I love your takes most of the time, but you're confusing me right now.

Corrosion
08-20-2012, 09:30 PM
TPN put the bottle down. Like I said he said Tolbert wasn't a striker meaning he didn't blow people up. I really do respect your football knowledge so I'll chalk this one up to you having a momentary lapse of sanity. Nothing you're saying is making sense to me. You're saying that players can ball in practice and not apply it in games! If that makes sense to anyone then I think they need their heads examined. Coaches have to see guys perform when it counts. How many players have we heard about who looked good in practice but we never saw it in games? Dorin Dickerson ring a bell? Dude seriously, put the bottle down. I love your takes most of the time, but you're confusing me right now.

Whenthe lights come on ... some people cant stand the pressure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C62-5oPcusw).

The things they learn / do in practice go out the window and they rely upon instinct .... that usually means a hole in the scheme that can be exploited.

I can tell you that from coachin pop warner ball ... you can teach all you want but when the lights go on ... sh!t happens.

Rey
08-20-2012, 09:31 PM
No way Harris gets cut.

Mcmannis is not that impressive as a cb, so I don't think he makes it.

I've always liked nading, so I hope he makes it, but I could see him being a casualty.

I think the competition between keo and demps will be one to watch.

I think demps has the edge and I'm not a huge keo fan, but be has looked better this pre season and he shows up on kick coverage.

Definitely going to be interesting to see what thy do with this roster.

I'll take a stab at a prediction:

Qb: Matt, Yates, Keenum
Rb: foster, Tate, grimes
Fb: Casey, norris
Wr: Aj, Walter, Martin, Jean, posey
TE: OD, Grahm
OT: brown, butler, newton
OG/C: meyers, jones, wade, Caldwell, Brooks, Shelley

DE: smith, watt, Jamison, crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Harris
ILB: Cush, James, mister, dobbins
OLB: barwin, reed, merciless, Braman, nading
CB: kjax, jjo, McCain, harris, Carmichael
S: manning, Quinn, Nolan, demps

LS: weeks
K: bullock
P: jones
KR: trindon


I don't feel confident with this roster prediction, but its about what I'd do.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 09:35 PM
No way Harris gets cut.

Mcmannis is not that impressive as a cb, so I don't think he makes it.

I've always liked nading, so I hope he makes it, but I could see him being a casualty.

I think the competition between keo and demps will be one to watch.

I think demps has the edge and I'm not a huge keo fan, but be has looked better this pre season and he shows up on kick coverage.

Definitely going to be interesting to see what thy do with this roster.

I'll take a stab at a prediction:

Qb: Matt, Yates, Keenum
Rb: foster, Tate, grimes
Fb: Casey, norris
Wr: Aj, Walter, Martin, Jean, posey
TE: OD, Grahm
OT: brown, butler, newton
OG/C: meyers, jones, wade, Caldwell, Brooks, Shelley

DE: smith, watt, Jamison, crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Harris
ILB: Cush, James, mister, dobbins
OLB: barwin, reed, merciless, Braman, nading
CB: kjax, jjo, McCain, harris, Carmichael
S: manning, Quinn, Nolan, demps

LS: weeks
K: bullock
P: jones
KR: trindon


I don't feel confident with this roster prediction, but its about what I'd do.

I could see that....... Maybe i'm the only one seeing potential in McManis. Sorrry for the criticism on Saturday as well. It was uncalled for.

Rey
08-20-2012, 09:36 PM
Whenthe lights come on ... some people cant stand the pressure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C62-5oPcusw).

The things they learn / do in practice go out the window and they rely upon instinct .... that usually means a hole in the scheme that can be exploited.

I can tell you that from coachin pop warner ball ... you can teach all you want but when the lights go on ... sh!t happens.

Exactly.

Also,

There is term called scout team hero or practice hero.

It means you look really good going game speed against guys going practice speed, but when other guys are out there going just as hard as you are you look like what you really are.

Corrosion
08-20-2012, 09:37 PM
I'll take a stab at a prediction:

Qb: Matt, Yates, Keenum
Rb: foster, Tate, grimes
Fb: Casey, norris
Wr: Aj, Walter, Martin, Jean, posey
TE: OD, Grahm
OT: brown, butler, newton
OG/C: meyers, jones, wade, Caldwell, Brooks, Shelley

DE: smith, watt, Jamison, crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Harris
ILB: Cush, James, mister, dobbins
OLB: barwin, reed, merciless, Braman, nading
CB: kjax, jjo, McCain, harris, Carmichael
S: manning, Quinn, Nolan, demps

LS: weeks
K: bullock
P: jones
KR: trindon


I don't feel confident with this roster prediction, but its about what I'd do.

Identical to my last list.

Rey
08-20-2012, 09:40 PM
I could see that....... Maybe i'm the only one seeing potential in McManis. Sorrry for the criticism on Saturday as well. It was uncalled for.

It's all good. I just lol'd and kept it moving.

As far as mcmannis goes, I'm not a fan. He's been here a while and I haven't seen anything of note that he's done.

I could see them keeping him since he has experience and hasn't totally sucked at any point but I also would not be shocked if he was let go.

Texn4life
08-20-2012, 09:45 PM
It's all good. I just lol'd and kept it moving.

As far as mcmannis goes, I'm not a fan. He's been here a while and I haven't seen anything of note that he's done.

I could see them keeping him since he has experience and hasn't totally sucked at any point but I also would not be shocked if he was let go.

I think I'm blinded by the first practice I saw him in his rookie year. He looked like a seasoned vet. I will say we have the luxury of having 2 backup safeties who cover very well. That could allow us to carry one less Corner.

steelbtexan
08-20-2012, 10:05 PM
Exactly.

Also,

There is term called scout team hero or practice hero.

It means you look really good going game speed against guys going practice speed, but when other guys are out there going just as hard as you are you look like what you really are.

Exhibit A= Antwuan Peek

Corrosion
08-20-2012, 10:18 PM
Exhibit A= Antwuan Peek

:facepalm:

badboy
08-20-2012, 10:27 PM
I could see that....... Maybe i'm the only one seeing potential in McManis. Sorrry for the criticism on Saturday as well. It was uncalled for.I'm not seeing what I need to from McManis and wonder what you see I so not. Brandon Harris has looked very good. I think Carmichael keeps McManis off roster unless Ball gets cut.

Corrosion
08-20-2012, 10:30 PM
I'm not seeing what I need to from McManis and wonder what you see I so not. Brandon Harris has looked very good. I think Carmichael keeps McManis off roster unless Ball gets cut.

Man Ball is as good as gone .... He's the lovechild of Petey Faggins and Phillup Buchannon ...proficient in following a guy but never gets his head around which leads to all those penalties - EG Carolina.

infantrycak
08-20-2012, 10:39 PM
Exhibit A= Antwuan Peek

Damn I called him in the draft and he kept flashing and then no performance. Big whiff there.

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2012, 12:18 AM
Exactly.

Also,

There is term called scout team hero or practice hero.

It means you look really good going game speed against guys going practice speed, but when other guys are out there going just as hard as you are you look like what you really are.

We're not talking Pop Warner here. We're not talking High School or College.

We're talking the Pros.

Guys who don't practice well, don't play on most squads. Simple fact. If you don't practice well, Kubiak will not play you. Guys with an Allen Iverson I-show-up-for-the-game mentality don't see the field in the NFL. Every year, there are guys that put up big stats in the pre-season games and they get cut, they bounce around from team to team.

There are rare guys who are able to come back from that and work their way up. But guys like Arian Foster, James Harrison, Priest Holmes, Rod Smith, Kurt Warner, Victor Cruz, those guys are the exception and not the rule. And they've got to learn to practice like pros. Even Arian has admitted it took him most of his first year to figure it out.

In the NFL, you make the team on the practice field by working hard, doing your job, and being consistent. You practice sloppy and blow up in the preseason games and you're still on the bubble looking at getting waived, just like Victor Cruz was, just like Gartrell Johnson was, just like Tyrell Sutton was, just like Armond Smith was.

This isn't college where you can dick around all week and then show up on Saturday and put on a show... unless you're Brett Favre and there aren't many of those in the league.

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2012, 12:18 AM
Exhibit A= Antwuan Peek

Exhibit B = Jason Babin.

Rey
08-21-2012, 12:36 AM
We're not talking Pop Warner here. We're not talking High School or College.

We're talking the pros.

I don't think you understand.

It doesn't matter what level you are on. There is game speed, and there is practice speed.

NFL players will tell you that. As a matter if fact Duane brown and Chester Pitts mentioned it the other day about the difference between a vet in practice and the difference between a noob, or a guy trying to get noticed.

This has nothing to do with practicing well.

Have you ever played football at even a top highschool level? Serious question.

Because it's just a fact that guys are not out there going full go game speed. You practice hard. You get your work in.

But the game is just an entirely different level that you rarely reach in practice. I've had a couple of scout team guys trying to get noticed and thinking they were doing something. And then you turn it on for a few plays and baptize their ass and they realize what it is.

I can tell who has actually been around the game just from some of the little things like this conversation. And that's not a slight, it's just the truth.

And as a matter if fact I'd venture to say that as you go up in levels the practices overall become less "game like" as far as when you line up against teammates.

In pop Warner you are lining up and you'll knock the snot out of a guy if you get the chance just lime you'd hit an opponent on game day. Fast forward through middle school into high school and you aren't doing that as much. Go to a college practice and see it's even more rare.

Go to an NFL practice or talk to some NFL players and you probably don't see it at all.

Wr comes across the middle in pop warner some lb is going to crush him if he gets the chance.

Andre or OD run across the middle and who is going to hit them like it's game time? LOL, no one. Unless you want to get cut.

The higher in level you go you realize that you need to "play hard standing up".

You don't want to too often put in that extra effort you'd see on game day to take a guy to the ground.

That's why you hear high school, college and NFL coaches yelling "stay on your feet"! "stay off the ground"!!!

Because guys are not going game speed in practice generally. And like I said the guys that do are normally newbies or scrubs trying to get noticed and are often labeled "scout team heroes".

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2012, 01:19 AM
I don't think you understand.


You're right.

I've never played football beyond the Pop Warner level.

But I understand that there's game speed and there's practice speed. And I understand that some people play better when the lights come on. I'm a powerlifter and I deadlift a helluva lot more when I'm on the podium than I can even imagine lifting in the gym.

But that doesn't change the fact that most of a coaching staff's evaluation of their players is based on what they see in the OTAs and in training camp and what they know about the player from past history. That doesn't change the fact that pre-season games don't mean as much to player evaluations to the coaching staff as they do to fans watching from the outside.

Right now, right this second, Kubiak and Crew know most of the players who are going to be on the 53 and there are just a few edge battles still remaining for the guys on the bubble. Now, for us, the fans, we're basing our evaluations on what we see in those preseason games. If a guy makes some big catches in preseason like Dorin Dickerson did, we want him on the squad, but the coaching staff has been working with these guys and know (hopefully) which ones are getting it and which ones aren't, and which ones need more work. I'm not saying that coaching staffs don't get it wrong sometimes, but I am saying that fans get hung up on big performances in the preseason and then can't understand why those guys aren't making the team.

To use your own example, preseason games are not regular season games. Some guys flash in the preseason who can't do it when the bullets fly for real, for real.

And like I said earlier, coaches like Coughlin and Kubiak are notorious for not playing guys if they don't practice well. One of Kubiak's mantras is that you play like you practice. He's said it in several interviews. If you want to explain the difference between practice and game speed, take it up with them.

Rey
08-21-2012, 09:22 AM
You're right.

I've never played football beyond the Pop Warner level.

But I understand that there's game speed and there's practice speed. And I understand that some people play better when the lights come on. I'm a powerlifter and I deadlift a helluva lot more when I'm on the podium than I can even imagine lifting in the gym.

I wasn't commenting on the conversation you were having. I was just commenting on the post corrosion made about some guys looking different in practice than in games.

But I guess I will now.

We dont get to see all the practices and sit in all the meeting rooms, so yeah, we have less information to base our opinions on. We also don't know exactly what the coaches expect out of players on any given play, so some of our opinions are based on just a guess and piecing together information based off what we think we know.

All that said, you can't tell everything from practice. Pre season is more about seeing what Lestar Jean or keyshawn martin can do against guys in a game situation than Andre Johnson or Kevin walter.

Yeah, most of your team you have a good idea of what they are, but for some of those guys trying to make the 53 or the practice squad, you may not have much of them in practice.

I don't mind if they shorten the pre season or leave it as it is though. The coaches are just going to have to make decisions without as much data as they'd normally have. But they should still be able to make decent decisions.

76Texan
08-21-2012, 11:58 AM
I deleted the game from my DVR, so I am working from memory here.

I dont doubt the corner blitz, or the zone. Neither do I contest that he made the right read. However, the ball being a couple inches off is the problem. It was not a good enough pass. You say it yourself, basically.

It's funny that the guys from Houston (Joe Myers and Spencer Tillman) were less impressed with the pass than the team from SF (Tim Ryan and Dennis O'Donnell).

I have both versions.

Myers hastily reacted "almost intercepted".
Tillman said "a little too far" (the pass).

O'Donnell called out "Here comes the blitz" ... "and forced Keenum to get rid of it".
On the replay, Ryan declared "aehh, that ball should have been caught".

Sounds like those guys need to trade places, LOL!

All and all, that ought to tell you that it was not a poor play by Keenum by any stretch of the imagination.
On a blitz, if your QB can get the ball out close enough for the receiver to make a play, it's at least a fair play by the QB.

Now if Keenum had not recognize the blitz, it would have been a different story.
Remember how Schaub got hit and was hurt in his first or second year by a CB (was it a Titan player?)

beerlover
08-21-2012, 12:03 PM
It's funny that the guys from Houston (Joe Myers and Spencer Tillman) were less impressed with the pass than the team from SF (Tim Ryan and Dennis O'Donnell).

I have both versions.

Myers hastily reacted "almost intercepted".
Tillman said "a little too far" (the pass).

O'Donnell called out "Here comes the blitz" ... "and forced Keenum to get rid of it".
On the replay, Ryan declared "aehh, that ball should have been caught".

Sounds like those guys need to trade places, LOL!

All and all, that ought to tell you that it was not a poor play by Keenum by any stretch of the imagination.
On a blitz, if your QB can get the ball out close enough for the receiver to make a play, it's at least a fair play by the QB.

Now if Keenum had not recognize the blitz, it would have been a different story.
Remember how Schaub got hit and was hurt in his first or second year by a CB (was it a Titan player?)

Joe Myers and Spencer Tillman need to be replaced by rmartin65 & 76Texan :htown2atx:

b0ng
08-21-2012, 12:10 PM
Case Keenum has an outside shot (at best) of making the final 53. If Kubiak is that frightened that some team will poach him off our practice squad, then I expect Keenum to get some kind of "injury" and get stashed on IR (Much like I expect DeVier Posey to do the same). I really don't see any team putting Case Keenum as one of their QB's on their 53 man roster, especially if he doesn't get any real meaningful action in the preseason (like he has so far).

I like Keenum too and he may develop into a player in the future, but right now, I seriously doubt there are any NFL teams who are chomping at the bit to go sign Case Keenum. If there are, they would've drafted him, and they aren't changing their minds because he threw 10 passes in the preseason.

beerlover
08-21-2012, 12:15 PM
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/08/what-texans-may-do-with-the-53-man-roster/

ring around the roster, pocket full of Posey, Holliday, Keenum they all fall down :spin:

rmartin65
08-21-2012, 12:20 PM
It's funny that the guys from Houston (Joe Myers and Spencer Tillman) were less impressed with the pass than the team from SF (Tim Ryan and Dennis O'Donnell).

I have both versions.

Myers hastily reacted "almost intercepted".
Tillman said "a little too far" (the pass).

O'Donnell called out "Here comes the blitz" ... "and forced Keenum to get rid of it".
On the replay, Ryan declared "aehh, that ball should have been caught".

Sounds like those guys need to trade places, LOL!

All and all, that ought to tell you that it was not a poor play by Keenum by any stretch of the imagination.
On a blitz, if your QB can get the ball out close enough for the receiver to make a play, it's at least a fair play by the QB.

Now if Keenum had not recognize the blitz, it would have been a different story.
Remember how Schaub got hit and was hurt in his first or second year by a CB (was it a Titan player?)

Yes, recognizing the blitz was a good play. And yes, throwing to that particular receiver was most likely the best option. However, there is no denying that the pass was off the mark, and without the effort of the receiver to deflect the ball, there is a very real possibility (I would say likely) that that ball is picked and taken to the house. It was right in the SF defender's chest.

It is better to take the sack than turn the ball over. If Keenum did not think he could make that pass (and he did not make the pass) then he should have taken the sack.

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2012, 12:45 PM
I wasn't commenting on the conversation you were having. I was just commenting on the post corrosion made about some guys looking different in practice than in games.

But I guess I will now.

We dont get to see all the practices and sit in all the meeting rooms, so yeah, we have less information to base our opinions on. We also don't know exactly what the coaches expect out of players on any given play, so some of our opinions are based on just a guess and piecing together information based off what we think we know.

All that said, you can't tell everything from practice. Pre season is more about seeing what Lestar Jean or keyshawn martin can do against guys in a game situation than Andre Johnson or Kevin walter.

Yeah, most of your team you have a good idea of what they are, but for some of those guys trying to make the 53 or the practice squad, you may not have much of them in practice.

I don't mind if they shorten the pre season or leave it as it is though. The coaches are just going to have to make decisions without as much data as they'd normally have. But they should still be able to make decent decisions.

And that's the point. From the practices, the OTAs, the meetings, and whatnot, you know the majority of who's going to be on your team. The preseason games decide the fate of those few remaining spots that you're not sure about AND the preseason games give you a chance to tweak who's with the 1s vs. who's with the 2's. There are some guys who play their way on to the team during this phase.

Billick said that by the second preseason game, you usually know 50 of the 53. That might have been overstating the case but I don't think it's very far off especially if you consider what we, the fans, think we know about the current roster.

AND, having a huge game or two in the preseason doesn't necessarily assure you a spot on a roster. There are lots of examples of guys who have big preseasons and then get cut. And it's usually a surprise to the fans because, unlike the coaches, we're basing most -- if not all -- our evaluation on those preseason games.

That's all I'm saying.

76Texan
08-21-2012, 12:48 PM
Yes, recognizing the blitz was a good play. And yes, throwing to that particular receiver was most likely the best option. However, there is no denying that the pass was off the mark, and without the effort of the receiver to deflect the ball, there is a very real possibility (I would say likely) that that ball is picked and taken to the house. It was right in the SF defender's chest.

It is better to take the sack than turn the ball over. If Keenum did not think he could make that pass (and he did not make the pass) then he should have taken the sack.

Nah, the safety first job was to cover the RB Forsett, who went into the motion wide right to the side line.

Forsett was turning back the whole time looking for the ball since the CB lining up over him came in on the blitz.

I would say in an instance like this, the RB should run harder downfield to keep the safety back.

The way this play was designed is like a Hi-Lo concept.
The guy that runs the deeper route needs to concentrate on spreading the field for the underneath receiver.

If he went hard at it he would have a lot of seperation when the safety decides to jump the underneath route.
That would make an easier decision for the QB, as he can go long right off the bat.

76Texan
08-21-2012, 12:55 PM
Case Keenum has an outside shot (at best) of making the final 53. If Kubiak is that frightened that some team will poach him off our practice squad, then I expect Keenum to get some kind of "injury" and get stashed on IR (Much like I expect DeVier Posey to do the same). I really don't see any team putting Case Keenum as one of their QB's on their 53 man roster, especially if he doesn't get any real meaningful action in the preseason (like he has so far).

I like Keenum too and he may develop into a player in the future, but right now, I seriously doubt there are any NFL teams who are chomping at the bit to go sign Case Keenum. If there are, they would've drafted him, and they aren't changing their minds because he threw 10 passes in the preseason.

If everything goes well, I would rather have Keenum on the PS.

More likely than not, other teams won't pick him up; but one never knows.

What is more interesting is whether Kubiak wants to keep 3 QBs on the roster.

b0ng
08-21-2012, 01:00 PM
If everything goes well, I would rather have Keenum on the PS.

More likely than not, other teams won't pick him up; but one never knows.

What is more interesting is whether Kubiak wants to keep 3 QBs on the roster.

I think that's what's going to happen. I'm pretty sure he'll go with 3 QB's this year but I'm not sure if Beck is really going to be that 3rd guy, or if he's going to find somebody who got cut.

Speaking of small QB's though, Russell Wilson, tiny qb extraordinaire of Wisconsin fame, will be getting the start for Seattle this Friday. So you know, we might have somebody other than Drew Brees and Doug Flutie to compare Keenum to.

76Texan
08-21-2012, 01:08 PM
I think that's what's going to happen. I'm pretty sure he'll go with 3 QB's this year but I'm not sure if Beck is really going to be that 3rd guy, or if he's going to find somebody who got cut.

Speaking of small QB's though, Russell Wilson, tiny qb extraordinaire of Wisconsin fame, will be getting the start for Seattle this Friday. So you know, we might have somebody other than Drew Brees and Doug Flutie to compare Keenum to.

I did say during the draft that I was also very impressed by Wilson.
He and Keenum were the top two guys who performed well under pressure.

barrett
08-21-2012, 01:51 PM
Guys, I did a 53 man roster at TBB. You can check it out here. http://is.gd/hZv6eX

I could only find two open spots on the roster and the whole thing balances on wether or not the Texans decide to keep CB Alan Ball as a vet CB despite is poor performance.

Don't discount them keeping him either. Vance Joseph did wonders with this secondary from a teaching standpoint and Ball is a willing tackler.

Here's the offense:

1 QB1 M. Schaub
2 QB2 T. Yates
3 QB3 C. Keenum After losing 2 QB's in as many weeks, the days of Kubiak only keeping 2 passers are over.
4 RB1 A. Foster
5 RB2 B. Tate
6 RB3 J. Forsett
7 FB1 J. Casey
8 FB2 M. Norris
9 TE1 O. Daniels
10 TE2 G. Graham Casey’s versatility makes carrying only 2 TE’s more possible but a 3rd TE could be had in exchange for another position. This is one of two possible scenarios that I could see.
11 WR1 A. Johnson
12 WR2 K. Walter
13 WR3 K. Martin
14 WR4 L. Jean
15 WR5 T. Holliday Having a good football team has awarded the Texans the ultimate luxury of a return “specialist”.
16 WR6 D. Posey Yes, all three of the young WR’s make the roster. Kubiak believes in Posey and wouldn’t risk leaving him unprotected on the practice squad.
17 OT1 D. Brown
18 OT2 R. Butler
19 OT3 D. Newton
20 OG1 W. Smith
21 OG2 A. Caldwell
22 OG3 S. Smith Shelley Smith played his way into an extra roster spot for the guards. This extra spot is had in exchange for the third TE.
23 OG4 B. Brooks Brooks potential and high draft status will keep him on the roster as well, similar to Posey.
24 C C. Meyers
25 C B. Jones

srrono
08-21-2012, 08:00 PM
WR1 Andre Johnson Keshawn Martin Lestar Jean
LT Duane Brown Andrew Gardner
LG Wade Smith Kasey Studdard
C Chris Myers Ben Jones
RG Antoine Caldwell Brandon Brooks Shelley Smith
RT Rashad Butler Derek Newton
TE Owen Daniels Garrett Graham
WR2 Kevin Walter DeVier Posey Trindon Holliday
QB Matt Schaub T.J. Yates
RB Arian Foster Ben Tate Justin Forsett
FB James Casey

DE J.J. Watt Tim Jamison
DT Shaun Cody Earl Mitchell Ra'Shon Harris
DE Antonio Smith Jared Crick
SLB Brooks Reed Bryan Braman Jesse Nading
ILB Brian Cushing Mister Alexander
ILB Bradie James Tim Dobbins
WLB Connor Barwin Whitney Mercilus
LCB Kareem Jackson Sherrick McManis Brandon Harris
RCB Johnathan Joseph Brice McCain
SS Danieal Manning Quintin Demps
FS Glover Quin Troy Nolan

PK Shayne Graham
P Donnie Jones
LS Jonathan Weeks

SteveSlaton20
08-21-2012, 08:48 PM
QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett
FB: Casey, Norris
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey
TE: OD, GGraham
LT: DB, Butler, Newton
LG: Smith, Smith, Caldwell, Brooks
C: Myers, Jones

DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl, Fangupo Harris??
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, McManis, Carmichael
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

LS: Weeks
K/PR: Holliday
P: Jones
K: Bullock

I think the only thing I'd change is Fangupo not making the roster, and forgot to add Hartmann and Sharpton to the PUP list.

CloakNNNdagger
08-21-2012, 09:09 PM
Kubiak today:

(on how he would evaluate the progress of QB Case Keenum right now) “I think he’s further along than I thought he would be. Watching him get ready for the combine and all those things, going from a shotgun player to an under center player, it looked like it was a struggle. I’m sure it was. So that was a concern of mine, but me watching him do it for us has been excellent. He’s handled it, the snaps, all that we do has not been a problem. So I’ve been very impressed with how far he’s come. He could or could not get some time this week, depending on how it goes with our ones and our twos. Between he and John (Beck), they’re going to play a ton of football against Minnesota. He’s holding his own. I’ve been very impressed.”

Denison today:

(on QBs John Beck and Case Keenum) “I think both of them have done very well. We still keep working with them, it’s still open. We’ve got two games. (QB) Matt (Schaub) and (QB) T.J. (Yates) will get a lot of this game, and then the last game we’ll see how that works out. I think both of them have done we’ll; both have obviously strengths and weaknesses. John’s been around the system, he’s played a lot in the League, and Case is a battler. He always figures out a way to do it. Obviously, with the career at Houston, you can see that at practice.”



(on if logic is telling him to go with the more experienced QB, John Beck) “I don’t know; logic and my name has rarely been in the same sentence. I think it’ll play itself out, I really do. I think we’ll figure that one out. It’ll play itself out and obviously (QB) Matt (Schaub) and (QB) T.J. (Yates) have done everything we’ve asked and done great. Matt’s really made some strides, especially the last couple weeks.”

link (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Tuesday-practice/8be0a222-27c2-497e-b5ef-75ff76900e3d)

76Texan
08-22-2012, 12:18 AM
Thanks for the update Cloak.

It's good to know that I'm seeing what the coaches are seeing.

Here's a bit I picked up from Schaub in the same report:

(on QB Case Keenum) “I think his progression has been really good. He’s a tremendous worker; his mind for the game is incredible for a young guy in this league, especially in our system, something totally new to him and from what he ran in college for five, six years. How he’s picked it up and how he works has been very impressive. So it’s been exciting to watch.”

ObsiWan
08-22-2012, 03:43 AM
I'm honestly starting to think that Kubiak is limiting Keenum's reps on purpose -- in an attempt to hide what the kid can do from other teams -- so he can try to stash him on the PS.

There's no other reason why the guy is taking knees on his second possession twice in a row --- specially when the one thing this team needs more than anything else is to evaluate players and come up with better ways to increase redzone efficiency.

No reason to start the victory formation in preseason with 2+ minutes left. Even San Fran went for it on 4th down to get a little live-fire practice against another team. The Texans essentially started the last drive in the red zone!

Hell, I thought that was Harbaugh being nice to Kubiak in an attempt to get Keenum another shot. Or to get Bullock another shot at a FG (just my opinion on it..)

TJ

I know!
My brother-in-law was furious that Kubiak didn't let people see a little more of Keenum.
Make it hard to evaluate his play.

He did the same thing in the Panthers game.
We had the ball on the Car 19 with 1:38 to go.
Kubiak called a run for Meggett that gained 6 then ordered Keenum to kneel twice to end the game.

With two minutes or less left in those games, Kubiak was probably in full on "let's end the game injury free" mode.

GP
08-22-2012, 07:40 AM
I want to see Case get more snaps, too, but Kubiak isn't trying to hide him from other teams...IMO, he's just trying to end a meaningless preseason game, get out of there without any injuries.

Nobody wants to blow their ACL or snap a bone or joint in the last two minutes of a preseason game. That would really suck.

If Case doesn't put up something really nice, consistently, in these last two games...and IF Beck handles himself well by contrast...then Case will clear waivers and hit our PS.

At this point, I'm wanting to go with veterans: Norris at FB,. Graham at FG, and Beck at QB3. I have no patience for shaky rookies on the active 53...not with what's on the line. Last year, the other 3 AFCS teams sort of snoozed and let their guard down. This year, they all bumped their game up a notch or so, trying to beat US. The time for dabbling with shaky players is over. Go with experience in FB, FG, and QB...because other positions have youth and are doing well (RB, WR, LBs).

speedfreek
08-22-2012, 09:06 AM
I don't think either Beck or Keenum qualifies as "Shaky" at this point. They simply haven't had enough snaps to show anything IMO.

The definition of Shaky was how Yates looked against San Fran. In fact, "Earthquake shaky", would be more appropriate given the team we were playing against..

TJ

76Texan
08-22-2012, 12:16 PM
I think shaky was John Beck's plays with the Skins last year.

He gave them ZERO chance to win any game.

In one game, he took like 9 or 10 sacks.

In another game, he didn't attempt any pass deeper than the 10-12 yd out or in route.
There were plays in which he had time and the receivers were open downfield.
There was one particular play where the camera show san end zone view replay where the TV crews circled both receivers wide-open on either side line.
They were wide open, yet they had to wave their hands like crazy to draw Beck's attention.
No matter where Beck looked, he would have an easy target.
But he went with a dump-off instead, LOL!

speedfreek
08-22-2012, 12:20 PM
If that's the case 76, why would we ever want Beck on our roster? If the guy can't play then the guy can't play.

That leaves only two options: Keenum as #3 on active roster, or Keenum as #3 on practice squad..

TJ

76Texan
08-22-2012, 12:59 PM
If that's the case 76, why would we ever want Beck on our roster? If the guy can't play then the guy can't play.

That leaves only two options: Keenum as #3 on active roster, or Keenum as #3 on practice squad..

TJ

We need a guy who knows the system since he was with Redskins last year under Shanahan.

Also, a guy can improve, can't he?

Beck is not quite that old yet.

speedfreek
08-22-2012, 01:12 PM
I'd love to see what the stats say for a guy improving after having been on 4 different teams. I guess it's possible, but I'd bet it's pretty unlikely..

TJ


We need a guy who knows the system since he was with Redskins last year under Shanahan.

Also, a guy can improve, can't he?

Beck is not quite that old yet.

Seρor Stan
08-22-2012, 01:26 PM
We need a guy who knows the system since he was with Redskins last year under Shanahan.

Also, a guy can improve, can't he?

Beck is not quite that old yet.

He is only a couple months younger than Matt Schaub.

b0ng
08-22-2012, 01:38 PM
We need a guy who knows the system since he was with Redskins last year under Shanahan.

Also, a guy can improve, can't he?

Beck is not quite that old yet.

Beck came from BYU so he was already fairly old by NFL standards when he was drafted.

utahmark
08-22-2012, 09:08 PM
Beck came from BYU so he was already fairly old by NFL standards when he was drafted.

Mormons:ahhaha:

76Texan
08-23-2012, 01:10 AM
He is only a couple months younger than Matt Schaub.

Beck came from BYU so he was already fairly old by NFL standards when he was drafted.

I don't know how long he went on his mission, but he was a true freshman at BYU at the year of 22 where he played 4 years.

Seems like he lost 4 years, and that's a long time to be out of football.
Granted, he already had 5 years in the NFL, but maybe his arms and legs are not as tired and he didn't have anybody hitting him for 4 years (?) so hid body should be fresher ?

And in fairness to Beck, in that game where he took a lot of sacks, there were at least 4 that were solely on the blockers.
(I watched thoses games when we first signed him so I don't recall exactly the numbers, but at least 4 were none of his fault.)

Corrosion
08-23-2012, 05:15 AM
I don't know how long he went on his mission, but he was a true freshman at BYU at the year of 22 where he played 4 years.

Seems like he lost 4 years, and that's a long time to be out of football.
Granted, he already had 5 years in the NFL, but maybe his arms and legs are not as tired and he didn't have anybody hitting him for 4 years (?) so hid body should be fresher ?

And in fairness to Beck, in that game where he took a lot of sacks, there were at least 4 that were solely on the blockers.
(I watched thoses games when we first signed him so I don't recall exactly the numbers, but at least 4 were none of his fault.)

Something I think is telling is that Keenum was given reps with the 2's - 3's ahead of Beck in the SF game. Wasnt a large sample size but .... it is what it is.

That may or may not mean Keenum has surpassed Beck in the pecking order according to the coaches .... but it does give you someinsight into their thinking.

One thing we know for sure - Beck is not an NFL starting QB. We cant really make that same statement about Keenum. If you grade them equal today but thinkone has room for growth ..... which way did he go George?!

76Texan
08-24-2012, 06:04 AM
No way Harris gets cut.

Mcmannis is not that impressive as a cb, so I don't think he makes it.

I've always liked nading, so I hope he makes it, but I could see him being a casualty.

I think the competition between keo and demps will be one to watch.

I think demps has the edge and I'm not a huge keo fan, but be has looked better this pre season and he shows up on kick coverage.

Definitely going to be interesting to see what thy do with this roster.

I'll take a stab at a prediction:

Qb: Matt, Yates, Keenum
Rb: foster, Tate, grimes
Fb: Casey, norris
Wr: Aj, Walter, Martin, Jean, posey
TE: OD, Grahm
OT: brown, butler, newton
OG/C: meyers, jones, wade, Caldwell, Brooks, Shelley

DE: smith, watt, Jamison, crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Harris
ILB: Cush, James, mister, dobbins
OLB: barwin, reed, merciless, Braman, nading
CB: kjax, jjo, McCain, harris, Carmichael
S: manning, Quinn, Nolan, demps

LS: weeks
K: bullock
P: jones
KR: trindon


I don't feel confident with this roster prediction, but its about what I'd do.

Last year, our first cut was down to 52 (due to the Butler situation).

We carried 7 CBs and 4 safeties but soon put Carmichael on the shelf and brought Keo up.

I think this year we go with 6 CBs and 5 safeties out of the shoot.

McManis has been pretty steady; at the moment I think I would take him over Carmichael. There should be room for both if we go with six - unless Wade loves him some Ball.

...

Quite a few people around here are not fans of Keo.

But he does play many roles.

Ever since Wade came here, Keo has been the only one that appears as the back-up to Quin in the dime package (which is quite popular in his D).

He's also the fifth safety last year and during this PS, playing both positions.
He's the one who makes all the secondary calls when we go third string in PS.
He also plays on ST.

I think there's a very good chance he makes the roster.
...

As usual, I think Nading might be the odd man out just so that we can find out how many lives he has.

Mister Alexander has been underwhelming, but with no depth, he may stick.
I think he needs to be on PS for another year.

Corrosion
08-24-2012, 10:21 AM
Mister Alexander has been underwhelming, but with no depth, he may stick.
I think he needs to be on PS for another year.

I was thinking the same thing ... maybe they PS him when / if Sharpton returns. But until that happens .... I believe he makes the 53.

Corrosion
08-25-2012, 11:28 PM
Lots to think about tonight ....


Wondering if they keep 4 RB's as Forsett looked pretty good and Grimes made several plays on ST (coverage) as well as looking solid both running the ball and catching it.


Fangupo made a couple plays - sniffed out a screen and combined on the tackle with Nading who was always around the ball.


Trycycles fumble looked to me to be a good play by the defender .... but the punt he bungled later had me concerned. Bounced back with a big return tho.


Carmichael , just dont think he did enough to outplay Ball for a spot.

McManis played his way ahead of both Carmichael and Ball.

Keo - do they keep 5 safeties ?? Did look good on ST .... No PS elegibility , will be a tough cut.


I'd like to put Mister Alexander on the bubble .... but with the lack of depth there its hard to do. Maybe they bring in someone after the first round of cuts.


Can we cut the whole second string OL ..... Man they looked BAD.

Kasey Studdard - Bye Bye.

Im good with OD , Graham and Casey at TE .... Unless someone gets dinged up. Could see them bring in a guy who gets cut from elsewhere - a blocking type.

Rey
08-26-2012, 02:46 AM
I think mr Alexander has been ok. He's definitely just depth at this point, but I didn't see any glaring mistakes from him.

He should definitely be making more plays than he is though.

I thought fangupo looked excellent. He was going against back ups, but he looked better that Earl to me. Besides the play where he tackled the rb on the dump off, he was man handling their center. He showed good movement for a guy his size too.

Lots of complaints about Yates, but that group he was playing with sucked.

Trindon is back on the bubble. Those mistakes can be game changers.

If Alan ball makes this team it'll be a travesty. He is awful.

Keo might make them keep 5 safeties. Hes improved.

rmartin65
08-26-2012, 08:13 AM
It is going to be a tough call on who makes the team. A lot of the bubble players bring something to the table that makes me think twice about wanting to see them cut. 10 players will be cut by Tuesday, if my counting is correct (and there are no guarantees there), and then another 22 before the start of the season. Look at the roster, and find 32 players to cut- it's pretty tough, I dont envy the FO this year.

Lucky
08-26-2012, 08:17 AM
I Look at the roster, and find 32 players to cut- it's pretty tough, I dont envy the FO this year.
I don't think it's that tough. I really like the Texans top 40 or so players. The back end of the roster? Not so much. I actually think the Texans will bring in 2 or 3 guys who are cut from other teams.

rmartin65
08-26-2012, 08:43 AM
I don't think it's that tough. I really like the Texans top 40 or so players. The back end of the roster? Not so much. I actually think the Texans will bring in 2 or 3 guys who are cut from other teams.

I agree that there is a definite sense of top 40, but then it is picking out the last 53 that is difficult. I could definitely see a couple rejects brought in, but at the same time I could see Smithiak being comfortable with who they have on the roster at the current time. It is just so fluid right now, I have a hard time saying one thing or another will happen.

Wolf
08-26-2012, 01:39 PM
Alan Burge's blog

Taking a stab at the Texans 53 man roster

Roster cuts are coming. The Texans must reduce their roster to 75 players on Monday and to 53 by Friday afternoon.

There are always going to be a few surprises during cuts but this one seems fairly straightforward. There are some obvious questions which we'll get to in a minute.

Last season the Texans roster settled in at 5 wide receivers, 9 offensive linemen, 3 tight ends (Casey being considered a fullback), 2 fullbacks, 3 running backs, 3 quarterbacks, 6 defensive linemen, 8 linebackers, 11 defensive backs, and 3 kicking/long snapper specialists

These numbers aren't cast in stone of course and can fluctuate depending on injuries and other situations but it's a reasonable model for estimating purposes.

So here's my semi-dusty crystal ball look at what the Texans roster and practice squad might look like one week from today:

http://www.examiner.com/article/taking-a-stab-at-the-texans-53-man-roster

b0ng
08-26-2012, 01:59 PM
I don't know how long he went on his mission, but he was a true freshman at BYU at the year of 22 where he played 4 years.

Seems like he lost 4 years, and that's a long time to be out of football.
Granted, he already had 5 years in the NFL, but maybe his arms and legs are not as tired and he didn't have anybody hitting him for 4 years (?) so hid body should be fresher ?

And in fairness to Beck, in that game where he took a lot of sacks, there were at least 4 that were solely on the blockers.
(I watched thoses games when we first signed him so I don't recall exactly the numbers, but at least 4 were none of his fault.)

26 is pretty damn old for a drafted QB. I'm not really sure what the confusion is he was born in 1981 same as Schaub. Not only is he old, he's just not good.

Texn4life
08-26-2012, 02:15 PM
Alan Burge's blog



http://www.examiner.com/article/taking-a-stab-at-the-texans-53-man-roster

I had to laugh at one thing he said. He said he hasn't seen consistent special from Holliday. C'mon, if the guy doesn't want him to make the team then fine, but that was an idiodic statement. He's made a big return in every game. Patrick Peterson returned 4 or 5 punts for touchdowns last year and he's looked at with Hester as the best in the game. A guy isn't going to return every kick or punt he fields for a touchdown. Some people need to have realistic expectations. Martin is looked at to be the next in line to be our returner. Martin with the 2 fumbles last night. Just something to think about.

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-26-2012, 02:35 PM
53 man roster

Qb-Schaub,Yates

Rb-Foster,Tate,Forsett

Fb-Casey,Norris

Wr-Dre,Walter,Jean,Martin,Posey,Holliday

Te-Od,Graham

Lt-Dbo,Gardner

Lg-Wade smith

C-Meyers,Jones

Rg-Caldwell,Brooks

Rt-Newton,Butler

Cb-J-Joe,Kareem,Harris,McCain,Mcmanis,Ball

Fs-Gq,Nolan

Ss-Manning,Demps

Mlb-Cush,James,Dobbins,Alexander,Sharpton

Olb-Barwin,Reed,Mercilus,Braman,Nading

De-Watt,Antonio,Crick,Jamison,Browner

Dt-Cody,Mitchell

K-Graham

P-Jones

Practice Sqaud-Rb-Grimes,Qb-Keenum,Wr-Maehl,Og-Shelly Smith,Ot-Mondek,S-Keo

Think Donnie jones has replaced Bret Hartman at punter and I hope Sharpton comes back by wk.4 or 5 at the latest Maybe we keep Fanguopo if Cody isn't ready

JCTexan
08-26-2012, 03:02 PM
QB: Schaub, Yates,
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett, Grimes
FB: Casey, Norris
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey
TE: OD, GG
LT: DB
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Newton, Butler

DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Mitchell, Fangupo
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Ball, Harris, Mcmanis
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan

LS: Weeks
P: Jones
K: Graham
KR: Holliday

---

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-26-2012, 04:24 PM
Just a minor tweak to my 53 man roster shayne graham for kicker since bullocks has a torn groin and out for the year smh could of been worse Go Texans

JCTexan
08-26-2012, 04:36 PM
Just a minor tweak to my 53 man roster shayne graham for kicker since bullocks has a torn groin and out for the year smh could of been worse Go Texans

Same. Edited my 53 prediction to put Graham over Bullock.

Lucky
08-26-2012, 04:37 PM
I had to laugh at one thing he said. He said he hasn't seen consistent special from Holliday. C'mon, if the guy doesn't want him to make the team then fine, but that was an idiodic statement. He's made a big return in every game. Patrick Peterson returned 4 or 5 punts for touchdowns last year and he's looked at with Hester as the best in the game. A guy isn't going to return every kick or punt he fields for a touchdown. Some people need to have realistic expectations. Martin is looked at to be the next in line to be our returner. Martin with the 2 fumbles last night. Just something to think about.
From the article you mentioned:

The downside is that he's tiny and can't play any other position. With roster spots at a premium, the Texans can't afford to give it to a player who can be completely neutralized on kickoffs deep into or out of the endzone, or directional/good hang time punts. The Texans already have a one-trick pony on the roster in Jonathan Weeks. To carry two guys like that is a luxury that most teams can't afford. Holliday's turnover in New Orleans demonstrates another element of risk in keeping him on the squad. One aw-**** eliminates a bunch of attaboys when it comes to return men as we learned with #12 last year. Like coach says, Holliday has to be special to make this team as he hasn't been consistently special. Sporadically special ain't gonna cut it.
Holliday's "only" averaged 43+ yards per kick return and 16+ yards per punt return. How is that as special as what guys like Shiloh Keo, Andrew Gardner, or Roc Carmichael contribute? Ridiculous.

8 players are on the inactive list every week. Another 8 are on the practice squad, chomping at the bit to replace those 8. Those roster spots aren't at a premium. Those spots are fungible. What is at a premium? Field position. Points on the board. Big plays. Things that Trindon Holliday can provide and a Shiloh Keo cannot.

ArlingtonTexan
08-26-2012, 06:57 PM
From the article you mentioned:


Holliday's "only" averaged 43+ yards per kick return and 16+ yards per punt return. How is that as special as what guys like Shiloh Keo, Andrew Gardner, or Roc Carmichael contribute? Ridiculous.

8 players are on the inactive list every week. Another 8 are on the practice squad, chomping at the bit to replace those 8. Those roster spots aren't at a premium. Those spots are fungible. What is at a premium? Field position. Points on the board. Big plays. Things that Trindon Holliday can provide and a Shiloh Keo cannot.

Sometimes I wonder what people are actually processing when they view the entire league. He points out that Weeks is a one-trick pony like the majority of long snappers are doing something else. this does not fit with reality as teams already dedicated that spot to a dude that is a best a break glass emergency player somewhere else. most long-snappers, ya know long snap and nothing more.

Rey
08-26-2012, 09:05 PM
Was Shelley smith on the roster last year?

Does anyone remember how many o linemen we carried and what the breakdown was?

I keep seeing these roster predictions and something about the o line doesn't look right.

Rey
08-26-2012, 09:07 PM
And is Jason ball really going to make this team?!

BARF.

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-26-2012, 09:23 PM
Last yrs o-line we kept

Lt-Duane brown,rashad butler

Lg-wade smith

C-Chris Meyers,Cody Wallace

Rg-brisiel,Caldwell

Rt-Winston,newton

Pretty much the same squad except we let go of Winston,brisiel and Wallace and replaced them with Brandon brooks and Ben jones just to answer your question about what olineman we kept last yr

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-26-2012, 09:24 PM
Was Shelley smith on the roster last year?

Does anyone remember how many o linemen we carried and what the breakdown was?

I keep seeing these roster predictions and something about the o line doesn't look right.

Last yrs o-line we kept

Lt-Duane brown,rashad butler

Lg-wade smith

C-Chris Meyers,Cody Wallace

Rg-brisiel,Caldwell

Rt-Winston,newton

Pretty much the same squad except we let go of Winston,brisiel and Wallace and replaced them with Brandon brooks and Ben jones just to answer your question about what olineman we kept last yr

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-26-2012, 09:25 PM
And is Jason ball really going to make this team?!

BARF.

Its Alan ball but ya Not a ball fan either but think wade will keep him over Carmichael

Rey
08-26-2012, 09:46 PM
Last yrs o-line we kept

Lt-Duane brown,rashad butler

Lg-wade smith

C-Chris Meyers,Cody Wallace

Rg-brisiel,Caldwell

Rt-Winston,newton

Pretty much the same squad except we let go of Winston,brisiel and Wallace and replaced them with Brandon brooks and Ben jones just to answer your question about what olineman we kept last yr

Thanks.

Will rep when I get to a computer.

Corrosion
08-26-2012, 09:48 PM
Was Shelley smith on the roster last year?

Does anyone remember how many o linemen we carried and what the breakdown was?

I keep seeing these roster predictions and something about the o line doesn't look right.

Cant remember if Smith was on IR or the PS last year .... think it was IR but dont quote me on that.

badboy
08-26-2012, 09:53 PM
Regardless of who makes roster at Corner & Safety, I see both as weak areas other than Joseph and Manning. Harris, KJ and need to turn it up. McCain needs to have another good year. I still feel good mocking a CB and safety.

Corrosion
08-26-2012, 10:07 PM
Regardless of who makes roster at Corner & Safety, I see both as weak areas other than Joseph and Manning. Harris, KJ and need to turn it up. McCain needs to have another good year. I still feel good mocking a CB and safety.

Demps has been real good and Nolan isnt a dud .... I wouldnt consider S a weak spot at all.


The CB's behind J.Jo , KJ and McCain .... thats another story. Harris was "Ok" but not special. Carmichael should be cut and McManis .... probably sticks due to his ST play but could be upgraded.

Ball .... I just dont know if he stays or not. Solid in zone coverage but poor in man situations.

The Pencil Neck
08-26-2012, 10:16 PM
OK. Let's try this again:

Offense: 25
QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett, Grimes
FB: Casey
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey, Holiday
TE: OD, GG
LT: DB, Butler
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Newton

Defense: 25
DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Ball, McMannis
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Keo

LS: Weeks
P: Jones
K: Graham

--- PS ---
NT - Fangupo
TE - Brock
FB - Smith
QB - Keenum
DB - Carmichael
DE - King
LB - Loiseau
OT - Gardner

------------------------------

I don't know why but I think Wade loves Ball. That's why I think he makes the team. I don't think he should but I think he does.

The Pencil Neck
08-26-2012, 10:18 PM
Was Shelley smith on the roster last year?

Does anyone remember how many o linemen we carried and what the breakdown was?

I keep seeing these roster predictions and something about the o line doesn't look right.

Shelley Smith was IR'd last year, iirc. He's a guy I've got on my 53 that I'm really not sure about. I've seen him look good but last night, he looked horrible.

Texn4life
08-26-2012, 10:20 PM
OK. Let's try this again:

Offense: 25
QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett, Grimes
FB: Casey
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey, Holiday
TE: OD, GG
LT: DB, Butler
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Newton

Defense: 25
DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Ball, McMannis
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Keo

LS: Weeks
P: Jones
K: Graham

--- PS ---
NT - Fangupo
TE - Brock
FB - Smith
QB - Keenum
DB - Carmichael
DE - King
LB - Loiseau
OT - Gardner

------------------------------

I don't know why but I think Wade loves Ball. That's why I think he makes the team. I don't think he should but I think he does.


Insert Roc for Ball and I'm with you! I think Wade and Kubiak are giving him every opportunity to make the team out of respect. I do like having experience behind KJ and Joseph, but I think Harris is capable of filling in if necessary. I also think Roc is only going to get better with more time since he missed all of last year.

The Pencil Neck
08-26-2012, 10:21 PM
53 man roster
<snip>
Think Donnie jones has replaced Bret Hartman at punter and I hope Sharpton comes back by wk.4 or 5 at the latest Maybe we keep Fanguopo if Cody isn't ready

That's a good roster.

I think Sharpton gets PUP'd and then they take a look at him mid-season to see if he can come back or if he gets IR'd or released.

badboy
08-26-2012, 10:22 PM
Demps has been real good and Nolan isnt a dud .... I wouldnt consider S a weak spot at all.


The CB's behind J.Jo , KJ and McCain .... thats another story. Harris was "Ok" but not special. Carmichael should be cut and McManis .... probably sticks due to his ST play but could be upgraded.

Ball .... I just dont know if he stays or not. Solid in zone coverage but poor in man situations.I like Nolan but not as high on Demps. Sure hope I'm wrong.

GP
08-26-2012, 10:23 PM
Shelley Smith was IR'd last year, iirc. He's a guy I've got on my 53 that I'm really not sure about. I've seen him look good but last night, he looked horrible.

He looked bad in the previous game too.

GP
08-26-2012, 10:27 PM
OK. Let's try this again:

Offense: 25
QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett, Grimes
FB: Casey
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey, Holiday
TE: OD, GG
LT: DB, Butler
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Newton

Defense: 25
DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Ball, McMannis
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Keo

LS: Weeks
P: Jones
K: Graham

--- PS ---
NT - Fangupo
TE - Brock
FB - Smith
QB - Keenum
DB - Carmichael
DE - King
LB - Loiseau
OT - Gardner

------------------------------

I don't know why but I think Wade loves Ball. That's why I think he makes the team. I don't think he should but I think he does.

I'd delete Crick, he'll be either PS or Phantom I.R., and with that extra roster spot I'm going to write in Moran Norris as FB1 and Casey as the emergency FB but will play TE unless needed at FB.

I want to see a formation of AJ, Martin, OD, GG, and Thor. Yikes!

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-26-2012, 10:35 PM
That's a good roster.

I think Sharpton gets PUP'd and then they take a look at him mid-season to see if he can come back or if he gets IR'd or released.

Ya he got PUP'd seen it early hopefully he can be back before or right after the bye week but time will tell

steelbtexan
08-26-2012, 10:41 PM
OK. Let's try this again:

Offense: 25
QB: Schaub, Yates, Beck
RB: Foster, Tate, Forsett, Grimes
FB: Casey
WR: AJ, KW, KMart, Jean, Posey, Holiday
TE: OD, GG
LT: DB, Butler
LG: Smith, Smith
C: Myers, Jones
RG: Caldwell, Brooks
RT: Newton

Defense: 25
DE: Smith, Watt, Jamison, Crick
NT: Cody, Earl
OLB: Barwin, Reed, Braman, Mercilus
ILB: Cush, James, Dobbins, Alexander
CB: JJo, Jackson, McCain, Harris, Ball, McMannis
S: Manning, Quin, Demps, Nolan, Keo

LS: Weeks
P: Jones
K: Graham

--- PS ---
NT - Fangupo
TE - Brock
FB - Smith
QB - Keenum
DB - Carmichael
DE - King
LB - Loiseau
OT - Gardner

------------------------------

I don't know why but I think Wade loves Ball. That's why I think he makes the team. I don't think he should but I think he does.

With Codys back I could see a vet NT being signed after week 2. (It saves $$$$, remember Pollard) Keo gets cut if this happens.

EllisUnit
08-26-2012, 10:43 PM
QB - Schaub, Yates, Case K
HB - Foster, Tate, Forsett
FB - Norris, Casey
TE - Daniels, Graham, Casey
C - Myers, Jones
G - Smith,
G - Caldwell, Brooks
OT - Newton,
OT - Brown, Butler
WR - AJ, Jean, KW/Martin, Posey

DT - Cody, Mitchell
DE - Watt, Smith, Jamison, Crick
ILB - Cushing, James, Dobbins
OLB - Barwin, Reed, M.W :), Braman
CB - J.J, Jackson, McCain, Harris, McMannis
S - Manning, Quin, Nolan, Demps

The Pencil Neck
08-26-2012, 11:31 PM
Ya he got PUP'd seen it early hopefully he can be back before or right after the bye week but time will tell

With the PUP rules, you have to PUP them before training camp and then you have to PUP them again after the last preseason game. Then they sit out the first 6 weeks and have 3 weeks to come back.

So, he hasn't been placed on the regular season PUP list, yet. I expect him to be but we'll see later this week.

The Pencil Neck
08-26-2012, 11:33 PM
I'd delete Crick, he'll be either PS or Phantom I.R., and with that extra roster spot I'm going to write in Moran Norris as FB1 and Casey as the emergency FB but will play TE unless needed at FB.

I want to see a formation of AJ, Martin, OD, GG, and Thor. Yikes!

I don't know why you're so quick to get rid of Crick. He's played well the past couple of games. He's the second guy off the bench (after Jamison) so he's making the 53. They're even having him take some reps at NT.

Bleed_Blu_Red
08-26-2012, 11:40 PM
Ya hopefully Sharpton is able to return for the season. I agree Crick will be a steal come on he was a projected first round pick at one time before he tore his pec. don't tell me you think ndamakhun suh was wrecking havoc because he is that good smh Crick had a part in that he is a keeper period

aj.
08-27-2012, 06:47 AM
Ridiculous.

.

What's ridiculous is how people latch on to their favorites and block out the big picture. Holliday has two returns for TD and 4 KO returns for 20+. That's special. He also had a fumble that was returned for TD and a muff on the sideline in the NO game that would have been another fumble had it been in the middle of the field. That's not special and proves that he still has trouble hanging on to the ball. What Holliday did Saturday night was the reason #12 got run out of town. Carry on with your fan club.

aj.
08-27-2012, 06:50 AM
Sometimes I wonder what people are actually processing when they view the entire league. He points out that Weeks is a one-trick pony like the majority of long snappers are doing something else. this does not fit with reality as teams already dedicated that spot to a dude that is a best a break glass emergency player somewhere else. most long-snappers, ya know long snap and nothing more.

Personal preference. I do watch the league and understand what's going on, but I'm Bruce Matthews old school when it comes to LS. The comment wasn't made out of ignorance as you suggest. Would rather have the backup C/G (whose active on game day) doing it.

Playoffs
08-27-2012, 07:51 AM
I don't know why you're so quick to get rid of Crick. He's played well the past couple of games. He's the second guy off the bench (after Jamison) so he's making the 53. They're even having him take some reps at NT.
Yep, Crick is a player. Good get at his drafted position.