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nunusguy
05-24-2005, 03:33 PM
"Zimmer has spent his off-season begging, borrowing and stealing, learning everything he can about the 3-4 defense. The front, which the Cowboys are expected to use as their base in 2005, is new to Zimmer and new to the Cowboys.
"It's like learning Greek," Zimmer said. "It's been a busy off-season."
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/football/nfl/dallas_cowboys/11724012.htm

HowBoutThemCowboys!
05-24-2005, 03:40 PM
I'm confident the Cowboys' will do great with the 3-4 D, Parcells was a defensive master mind with the 3-4 when he was with the Giants, Jets, and Patriots. He'll teach Zimmer the tricks of the trades.

nunusguy
05-24-2005, 03:46 PM
**************************
You'd think Capers could atleast get some mention in this discussion given his background and contribution to the 3-4. Maybe the author thinks mentioning
Capors would remind Cowboy fans that their team was beat by Capers very own 3-4 the first time his new X team team in Houston played a game ?
**************************
"The Steelers have used the front since 1983, longer than any other team, and have led the AFC in total defense six times and in points allowed five times since 1990.A lot of guys who have been through Pittsburgh really believe in that system more than anything else. It's been very good to them
But there are other reasons for the 3-4 defense's growing popularity: the elevations of defensive coordinators Romeo Crennel and Mike Nolan, who are 3-4 disciples, to head coaching positions at Cleveland and San Francisco"

HowBoutThemCowboys!
05-24-2005, 04:02 PM
I don't understand, what you are getting to. Parcells is simply changing Dallas' defensive scheme to what he's been so succesful with in the past.

Back in the early 80s when Parcells was with the Giants, he drafted Lawrence Taylor and changed the defense from a 4-3 to a 3-4 to take advantage of Taylor's pass rushing from outside linebacker. Looks to me Dallas is doing the same with DeMarcus Ware.

nunusguy
05-26-2005, 05:26 PM
I love Troy State and DeMarcus Ware, but I think your overestimating his ability to fit in to the 3-4 quickly.
DeMarcus Ware reminds me of Antwaan Peek - non-major college program,
DE in college who needs to convert to OLB, but a tremendous athlete. And
lets see now, we're in the 3rd year of Peeks career and he's just now, finally looking like he'll be a starter. But the big difference between them - Peek was a third rounder, which is no small price, but Ware is #11 overall in the current Draft. Cowboys have a far bigger investment than we do.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
05-26-2005, 06:28 PM
I love Troy State and DeMarcus Ware, but I think your overestimating his ability to fit in to the 3-4 quickly. The 'boys aren't gonna do as well as everyone seems to think, it's gonna take a few years for that to come together. The Texans probably won't live up to the hype either though...unless we can acquire a few more key guys before the season starts.

I am one of Wares biggest supporters and i have no idea just what impact he'll have right out of the gate. I think your missing the point of Cowboys fans upbeat attitude. It's gonna be tough and talented vets like Bledsoe,Rivera, Ferguson, Henry and Glenn that will make or break this team in 2005. If any team has to rely on Rooks to get them to the playoffs they are in trouble, as you can attest with a young QB.

BornOrange
05-26-2005, 10:47 PM
I'm confident the Cowboys' will do great with the 3-4 D, Parcells was a defensive master mind with the 3-4 when he was with the Giants, Jets, and Patriots. He'll teach Zimmer the tricks of the trades.
Belichick was the defensive master on all those Parcells 3-4 defenses. I'm not saying that Parcells doesn't know a lot about defense, but most of the credit should go to Belichick.

DFAN
05-27-2005, 12:17 AM
BP has ran the 3-4 every year he has coached except the 2 in Dallas. He even ran it at Texas Tech when he was D Coord. I think it will be ok. Just like in NE with Belichick, BP will be in control of the D. He will be the one making the game plans and Zimm will call it on the sidelines.


Burntte(2nd round draft choice) played it in college. Dat played at A&M. Ferguson played with the Jets. Glover played a little with NO. We wont know about Spears or Ware until the season starts but that is with all rookies. Most had Ware as the best pure pass rusher in the draft so I can't see him having many problems but we will see. Cowboys 4th round draft choice Canty played in it college as well. Most consider him to be a 1st round draft choice but injuries hurt him.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
05-27-2005, 01:56 AM
Belichick was the defensive master on all those Parcells 3-4 defenses. I'm not saying that Parcells doesn't know a lot about defense, but most of the credit should go to Belichick.

True, but Parcells was the defensive coordinator for the Giants when he started to use the 3-4.




Cowboys 4th round draft choice Canty played in in college as well. Most consider him to be a 1st round draft choice but injuries hurt him.

Canty was a steal. The only reason he wasn't taken in the first round was because a glass bottle hit his eye while he was subsiding by a bar fight. I think the bottle screwed up up his cornia or something, but he's fine now, surgery fixed it all.

DFAN
05-27-2005, 02:39 AM
Detached retina. He had scar tissue removed last week and is fine and expected to be in TC. He also had ACL surgery last year as well. But that doesn't seem to be a concern so far. I don't look for him to contribute a lot this year.

Huge
05-27-2005, 02:31 PM
Belichick was the defensive master on all those Parcells 3-4 defenses. I'm not saying that Parcells doesn't know a lot about defense, but most of the credit should go to Belichick.

Guess that would explain all the success Belichick had when he was in Cleveland:
1991 - 6-10
1992 - 7-9
1993 - 7-9
1994 - 11-5
1995 - 5-11

:rolleyes:

HowBoutThemCowboys!
05-27-2005, 06:20 PM
Detached retina. He had scar tissue removed last week and is fine and expected to be in TC. He also had ACL surgery last year as well. But that doesn't seem to be a concern so far. I don't look for him to contribute a lot this year.

Yeah, I don't see him doing much this year with Ellis and Spears around, but he'll be more of a factor in the future.

nunusguy
05-29-2005, 10:57 AM
One thing about Parcells switching to the 3-4, it will finally give his team
an opportunity to get value for Roy Williams. 8th overall back in '02 was way
too much for this guy as a safety, but he is a natural LB who gives Dallas
a chance to redeem the wisdom of their choice by playing him in one of the
3-4 LB slots.

Huge
05-29-2005, 11:11 AM
Actually he's a natural SS. He's just been playing out of position (FS) because of Darren Woodson. Now that Woodson's retired, Williams will be able to move back to SS.

nunusguy
05-29-2005, 11:40 AM
Generalizing, a top 10 overall is simply too much of premium to pay for someone who is suited only to play safety, whether its free or strong. These
2 positions are the least important in the whole defense and can usually be manned by slower and/or over-the-hill CBs (see Marcus Colemann/Houston Texans for reference). As far as Sean Taylor goes, I dunno maybe he's worth a top ten pick, but he is unquestionaly a superior athlete to Williams and would be fast enough to play corner, whereas Williams does not have that kind of sprint speed. If I'm not mistikaken, Parcells has alluded to Williams as a LB prospect - something about a "brick short" nickname re him being LB size, but honestly I don't have a link at this time to back that up.
Parcells would not have made this pick, and I think Jones made it the year beffore Parcells arrived. Williams switching to LB will be easier transition than that move for top draft pick DE Ware. Watch for Parcells to move Williams sometime this year.

F-minus67
05-29-2005, 12:55 PM
The cowboys will struggle like the browns will this year, but they will be better since the level of talent the boys have is so much higher.

texasguy346
05-29-2005, 01:03 PM
I think the Cowboys have a chance of contending for the NFC East if they're able to keep Bledsoe on his feet. They've got the pieces in place to have an effective running game, and Drew can still let it fly with the best of them. Only problem is he's a statue in the pocket, and he'll live or die by his OLine. Their defense might take a while to get a grasp of the 3-4, but the new additions to the defensive side of the ball should pay immediate dividends. I think they have a good mix of veteran players and young players. Their biggest problem is being in the same division as the Eagles. Couple that with having to face Washington and their D twice a year and you've got a tough road to winning the division. I think they can be anywhere from a middle of the pack team to a playoff caliber team depending on the protection Drew gets.

DFAN
05-29-2005, 01:29 PM
Generalizing, a top 10 overall is simply too much of premium to pay for someone who is suited only to play safety, whether its free or strong. These
2 positions are the least important in the whole defense and can usually be manned by slower and/or over-the-hill CBs (see Marcus Colemann/Houston Texans for reference). As far as Sean Taylor goes, I dunno maybe he's worth a top ten pick, but he is unquestionaly a superior athlete to Williams and would be fast enough to play corner, whereas Williams does not have that kind of sprint speed. If I'm not mistikaken, Parcells has alluded to Williams as a LB prospect - something about a "brick short" nickname re him being LB size, but honestly I don't have a link at this time to back that up.
Parcells would not have made this pick, and I think Jones made it the year beffore Parcells arrived. Williams switching to LB will be easier transition than that move for top draft pick DE Ware. Watch for Parcells to move Williams sometime this year.


Are you serious? Taylor is not a superior athelte to Williams. Better? Maybe. Superior? No.

You act like playing safty is not big deal and it's easy to find them. Trust me it's not. See Cowboys D last year without Woodson. He wasnt' the only reason but he was a very big part of it.

The comment BP made about Williams was he was a biscuit shy of being a LB. He made the comment becasue he was over the weight BP wanted him at. Not because he wanted him to play LB. Trust me. Williams will be playing S not LB. He'll finally get a chance to play SS which is his naturaul position. I read where they will play him closer to the line of scrimmage this year so they can utilize what he his good at but it will be S not LB.

Huge
05-29-2005, 02:08 PM
Generalizing, a top 10 overall is simply too much of premium to pay for someone who is suited only to play safety, whether its free or strong. These
2 positions are the least important in the whole defense and can usually be manned by slower and/or over-the-hill CBs (see Marcus Colemann/Houston Texans for reference). As far as Sean Taylor goes, I dunno maybe he's worth a top ten pick, but he is unquestionaly a superior athlete to Williams and would be fast enough to play corner, whereas Williams does not have that kind of sprint speed. If I'm not mistikaken, Parcells has alluded to Williams as a LB prospect - something about a "brick short" nickname re him being LB size, but honestly I don't have a link at this time to back that up.
Parcells would not have made this pick, and I think Jones made it the year beffore Parcells arrived. Williams switching to LB will be easier transition than that move for top draft pick DE Ware. Watch for Parcells to move Williams sometime this year.

I agree about the safeties positions being filled with later draft picks (like 2nd rounders). But if you could have Ronnie Lott with the 8th overall pick, would you take him? Not saying Williams is in Lott's league but he has that potential.

I also agree that Taylor is a superior athlete to Williams. But I don't believe that makes him a better football player. If you compared their rookie seasons (when Williams was playing out of position but the same position as Taylor):

Williams - 99 tackles, 2 sacks, 5 INTs
Taylor - 76 tackles, 1 sack, 4 INTs

Do you see Taylor using his superior athleticism to his adavantage? I don't.

Parcells didn't allude to Williams being a LB prospect. He said he was one bisquit away from being a LB (alluding that Williams might want to get into better shape). But I guess it's how you read the quote. With the LBs we have combined with Woodson's retirement, there's no way in hell Williams will be moved to LB.

BTW, Ware played quite a bit OLB in college. In the 3-4 scheme, he'll play OLB. When we use the 4-3 (nobody ever said we were going 3-4 full time), he'll play DE. There's not much difference between the two positions. If he has to cover a TE or RB, he's got the athleticism to do it.

I think the Cowboys have a chance of contending for the NFC East if they're able to keep Bledsoe on his feet. They've got the pieces in place to have an effective running game, and Drew can still let it fly with the best of them. Only problem is he's a statue in the pocket, and he'll live or die by his OLine. Their defense might take a while to get a grasp of the 3-4, but the new additions to the defensive side of the ball should pay immediate dividends. I think they have a good mix of veteran players and young players. Their biggest problem is being in the same division as the Eagles. Couple that with having to face Washington and their D twice a year and you've got a tough road to winning the division. I think they can be anywhere from a middle of the pack team to a playoff caliber team depending on the protection Drew gets.

Absolutely disagree about Dallas contending for the East (regardless of how well Bledsoe is protected). I've never been sold on Bledsoe. I consider him to be more like Dan Marino without the accuracy, quick release and decision making ability. By that I mean he's gotten by on his stats and his stats are only what they are because of the number of attempts.

He's averaged just over 500 passing attempts per season for his career. That's a whole lot considering he only had 66 attempts for the entire 2001 season.
Despite all those attempts, he's never thrown more than 30 TDs in a season. Heck, he's only thrown more than 25 three times in his career.

His career rankings:
Pass attempts - 7th all-time
Pass TDs - 18th all-time

6049 passing attempts, 221 passing TDs (or 1 TD for every 27 attempts). Compare that with say....Brett Favre?
7005 passing attempts, 376 passing TDs (or 1 TD for every 18.6 attempts).

That's a really big difference.

Bottom line, I don't think Bledsoe was an upgrade over Vinny. All we did was trade in for a younger model. In a way, it takes us a step back because it takes away snaps from Henson and Romo, the only two QBs on the roster that have a chance of being our long term answer. If they are or aren't the answer, how are you going to know if they're not playing?

But we never have problems with Washington. How good their defense is doesn't matter. :)

nunusguy
05-29-2005, 05:11 PM
The comment BP made about Williams was he was a biscuit shy of being a LB. He made the comment becasue he was over the weight BP wanted him at. Not because he wanted him to play LB. Trust me. Williams will be playing S not LB. He'll finally get a chance to play SS which is his naturaul position. I read where they will play him closer to the line of scrimmage this year so they can utilize what he his good at but it will be S not LB.
Thank you - I stand corrected. But don't look now, because I think you just made my point for me because you said "I read where they will play him closer to the los this year so they can utilize what he is good at".
That's why they call them LBs - they are near the action as they back up the line. Ed Reed, taken in the same draft, is a better safety than Williams but he's too small to play LB. Fortunately Williams has that size. With the Ware and plans to play him as an OLB, Parcells will
probably play Williams on the inside - actually he's about the size as Greenwood, the guy that the Texans picked up from the Dolphins and he has 'bout the same kind of speed. Yup, I think Williams will gravitate to his natural position in the 3-4 as an ILB.

DFAN
05-29-2005, 05:27 PM
Thank you - I stand corrected. But don't look now, because I think you just made my point for me because you said "I read where they will play him closer to the los this year so they can utilize what he is good at".
That's why they call them LBs - they are near the action as they back up the line. Ed Reed, taken in the same draft, is a better safety than Williams but he's too small to play LB. Fortunately Williams has that size. With the Ware and plans to play him as an OLB, Parcells will
probably play Williams on the inside - actually he's about the size as Greenwood, the guy that the Texans picked up from the Dolphins and he has 'bout the same kind of speed. Yup, I think Williams will gravitate to his natural position in the 3-4 as an ILB.


LOL!!

I would put anything on it that Williams will not be LB. They are moving him closer to the line of scrimmage to utilize his skills more. At FS the past 3 yrs he had to cover more which is not his strongest ability. With Woodson gone he hsi moving to SS where he can attack the line of scrimmage more.

No way will he be a LB. If for no other reason we don't have the S's to play in our backfield.

OLB- Ware
ILB- Dat
ILB- James, Burnette,Shanele
OLB- Singleton, Burnette


Ware and Dat are pretty much locks. The other 2 LB's spots are pretty much wide open. I wish they would move Thorton to the other OLB spot but he plays the same one as Ware. Maybe they will later. But Willians is a S not a LB. NO way is he a ILB.

Huge
05-29-2005, 05:32 PM
Ed Reed - FS
Roy Williams - SS

HowBoutThemCowboys!
05-30-2005, 12:52 AM
This is my ideal 53 man roster for Dallas:

QB-Blesdoe,Henson,Romo
FB-Barnes,Polite
RB-J.Jones,A.Thomas,Barber
WR-K.Johnson,Morgan,Copper
WR-Glenn,Crayton
TE-Witten,Campbell,Robinson
LT-Adams,Rogers
LG-Allen,Tucker
C-A.Johnson,Gurode
RG-Rivera,Peterman
RT-Vollers,Pettiti

RDE-Glover,Canty
NT-Ferguson,Carson,Ratliff
LDE-Ellis,Spears
ROLB-Ware,Ogbogu
RILB-James,Shanle
LILB-Nguyen,Fowler
LOLB-Burnett,K.Thornton
CB-Newman,Glenn,B.Thornton
CB-Henry,Frazier,N.Jones
FS-Hunter,K.Davis
SS-R.Williams,Beriault

P-McBriar
K-Visintainer

nunusguy
05-30-2005, 09:03 AM
They are moving him closer to the line of scrimmage to utilize his skills more. At FS the past 3 yrs he had to cover more which is not his strongest ability.
You guys just keep making my case for me ! How would you minimize pass coverage responsibiliuties/player's weakness and maximize opportunities at the los/player's forte for a big, heavy hitter playing safety ? I dunno...I honestly don't want to sound sarcastic, but why is it so difficult for some to understand what is obvious to others. This guy is obviously a LB playing out of position.
Here, lets do it this way. As I said earlier, never want to expend a top pick
on a safety - Parcells too wise to do this, but ***** drafting for Dallas in previous years did so the team is paying for it now. But anyway, look at this
years draft - 6 DBs taken in the first round and 3 were CBs drafted in top 10.
The lone safety out of those 6 guys was Thomas Davis, a stud hitter from Georgia who goes something like 225. Sound familiar ? OK, stay with me here guys, 'cause honestly its not rocket science. All indications are that Carolina, the team that drafted Davis, will convert him to LB.
Hey, I'm not even a Cowboys fan, have just followed Parcells career as he moved from team to team, so I don't really care what they do with Williams. Its just that is very obvious what they should do with, especially now that they are converting to a D that will require more LBs on the roster.

GoPats
05-30-2005, 10:30 AM
This is my ideal 53 man roster for Dallas:

QB-Blesdoe,Henson,Romo
FB-Barnes,Polite
RB-J.Jones,A.Thomas,Barber
WR-K.Johnson,Morgan,Copper
WR-Glenn,Crayton
TE-Witten,Campbell,Robinson
LT-Adams,Rogers
LG-Allen,Tucker
C-A.Johnson,Gurode
RG-Rivera,Peterman
RT-Vollers,Pettiti

RDE-Glover,Canty
NT-Ferguson,Carson,Ratliff
LDE-Ellis,Spears
ROLB-Ware,Ogbogu
RILB-James,Shanle
LILB-Nguyen,Fowler
LOLB-Burnett,K.Thornton
CB-Newman,Glenn,B.Thornton
CB-Henry,Frazier,N.Jones
FS-Hunter,K.Davis
SS-R.Williams,Beriault

P-McBriar
K-Visintainer

Hey there... just curious, as a fan of Drew's, how he's being received in Dallas? Are people glad that he's there?

Bledsoe took a lot of flak, but gave the Patriots a lot of good years and helped turn the franchise around as much as anyone. I'll always have respect for the way he handled himself with the Tom Brady situation too. The guy is 100% class, and though his better (playing) days are behind him I think he'll do a good job for you this year.

Have a great season... I think the Cowboys are primed to bounce back. Isn't that the Parcells pattern? Good first year, decline in the second, then back to good for the third...

DFAN
05-30-2005, 10:55 AM
You guys just keep making my case for me ! How would you minimize pass coverage responsibiliuties/player's weakness and maximize opportunities at the los/player's forte for a big, heavy hitter playing safety ? I dunno...I honestly don't want to sound sarcastic, but why is it so difficult for some to understand what is obvious to others. This guy is obviously a LB playing out of position.
Here, lets do it this way. As I said earlier, never want to expend a top pick
on a safety - Parcells too wise to do this, but ***** drafting for Dallas in previous years did so the team is paying for it now. But anyway, look at this
years draft - 6 DBs taken in the first round and 3 were CBs drafted in top 10.
The lone safety out of those 6 guys was Thomas Davis, a stud hitter from Georgia who goes something like 225. Sound familiar ? OK, stay with me here guys, 'cause honestly its not rocket science. All indications are that Carolina, the team that drafted Davis, will convert him to LB.
Hey, I'm not even a Cowboys fan, have just followed Parcells career as he moved from team to team, so I don't really care what they do with Williams. Its just that is very obvious what they should do with, especially now that they are converting to a D that will require more LBs on the roster.



The Cowboys are doing with Willians what most teams do with their SS. Play him close to the line of scrimmage. It's not different than what they did with Woodson his whole career and he never was a LB except in college. SS typically play closer to the line of scrimmage. The only time Williams will be at LB is on some nickle and dime packages but again that is with a lot of SS.

I just don't get why you think he will be playing LB. It just isn't an option.

DFAN
05-30-2005, 10:59 AM
Hey there... just curious, as a fan of Drew's, how he's being received in Dallas? Are people glad that he's there?

Bledsoe took a lot of flak, but gave the Patriots a lot of good years and helped turn the franchise around as much as anyone. I'll always have respect for the way he handled himself with the Tom Brady situation too. The guy is 100% class, and though his better (playing) days are behind him I think he'll do a good job for you this year.

Have a great season... I think the Cowboys are primed to bounce back. Isn't that the Parcells pattern? Good first year, decline in the second, then back to good for the third...


It's a wait and see thing for me. You have some who are for it and some against it.

BP's patteren is to have below .500 record the 1st and winning the next. So he kind of did the opposite with the Cowboys. Last year was the 1st time one of his teams finished worst in his 2nd year.

Huge
05-30-2005, 11:43 AM
I dunno...I honestly don't want to sound sarcastic, but why is it so difficult for some to understand what is obvious to others.

Dear sweet irony. :rolleyes:

Huge
05-30-2005, 12:05 PM
This guy is obviously a LB playing out of position.

Do "LB who are obviously playing out of position" make it to 2 Pro Bowls in their first 3 years while playing that position?

If he can at least be adequate (understatement given his accomplishments thus far) as a FS, don't you think he could hold his own as a SS?

You're right, it's not rocket science.

But anyway, look at this years draft - 6 DBs taken in the first round and 3 were CBs drafted in top 10. The lone safety out of those 6 guys was Thomas Davis, a stud hitter from Georgia who goes something like 225. Sound familiar?

Indeed it does sound familiar...
2004 - Sean Taylor - 1st round FS (6th overall pick)
2003 - Troy Polamalu - 1st round SS (15th overall pick)
2002 - Roy Williams - 1st round SS (8th overall pick)
2002 - Ed Reed - 1st round FS (24th overall pick)
2001 - Adam Archuleta - 1st round SS (20th overall pick)

Davis makes it 5 years in a row that a FS or SS has been taken in the first round. Should we expect those guys to be moving to LB in the near future since it's not wise to use 1st round picks on safeties?

All indications are that Carolina, the team that drafted Davis, will convert him to LB.

Indications like what? That he's been given #47 (illegal in the NFL for LBs to wear numbers in that range)? That's he's listed on their roster as a "SS"? Guess you're right, blatant indications he's going to LB.

Sarcasm aside, what indications are you referring to?

Its just that is very obvious what they should do with, especially now that they are converting to a D that will require more LBs on the roster.

You're right, it is obvious. But now we're back to that "but why is it so difficult for some to understand what is obvious to others" thing.

nunusguy
05-30-2005, 01:13 PM
Indeed it does sound familiar...
2004 - Sean Taylor - 1st round FS (6th overall pick)
2003 - Troy Polamalu - 1st round SS (15th overall pick)
2002 - Roy Williams - 1st round SS (8th overall pick)
2002 - Ed Reed - 1st round FS (24th overall pick)
2001 - Adam Archuleta - 1st round SS (20th overall pick)
Davis makes it 5 years in a row that a FS or SS has been taken in the first round. Should we expect those guys to be moving to LB in the near future since it's not wise to use 1st round picks on safeties?

Exactly. Only 2 top teners in total at safety in recent years, the others are
in the bottom half of the first round, or only marginally in top half of first round. But on average, only 1 safety taken per year in top round, whereas
on average there are multiple down lineman, backers, and corners taken
every year. Great athletes just don't play safety in college or the NFL -
Sean Taylor may be an exception, but that's it. Its a nonpriority position
that does not require premium skills and/or physical attributes that the other position do to be ranked amoung the best.
This year in first round: 5 corners, 3 LBs (or players who will be LBs-excluding Davis,which is maybe debateable), and in a very weak year for defensive lineman, 3 were still taken in the first round.
Regarding the topic of where the Panthers play Davis - I've got a link that
is a fans website that's clear where their sentiments are; couldn't find much on the subject on the Carolina team website.
http://www.panthershuddle.com/newforum/viewtopic.php?p=119111

DFAN
05-30-2005, 02:07 PM
How about his success in New England?


2004 New England Patriots 14-2
2003 New England Patriots 14-2
2002 New England Patriots 9-7
2001 New England Patriots 11-5

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Parcells has won a Superbowl without Belichick.


I guess we can say the same about Crennel or Weise(probally didn't spell that right). I guess if NE doesn't win a SB this year it was Crennel, Weise or both were the reason they won 3 in 4 years not Belichick.

SB champion teams have good players, coaches, asst coaches and front office.

GoPats
05-30-2005, 02:07 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Parcells has won a Superbowl without Belichick.

You are correct, sir. Belichick has been involved with five Super Bowl-winning teams (two with the Giants and Parcells, three in New England). Parcells has won two as a head coach.

GoPats
05-30-2005, 02:08 PM
SB champion teams have good players, coaches, asst coaches and front office.

You are also correct, sir. (Scott Pioli has won Exec of the Year two years straight.)

Huge
05-30-2005, 02:29 PM
Exactly. Only 2 top teners in total at safety in recent years, the others are
in the bottom half of the first round, or only marginally in top half of first round. But on average, only 1 safety taken per year in top round, whereas
on average there are multiple down lineman, backers, and corners taken
every year. Great athletes just don't play safety in college or the NFL -
Sean Taylor may be an exception, but that's it. Its a nonpriority position
that does not require premium skills and/or physical attributes that the other position do to be ranked amoung the best.
This year in first round: 5 corners, 3 LBs (or players who will be LBs-excluding Davis,which is maybe debateable), and in a very weak year for defensive lineman, 3 were still taken in the first round.
Regarding the topic of where the Panthers play Davis - I've got a link that
is a fans website that's clear where their sentiments are; couldn't find much on the subject on the Carolina team website.
http://www.panthershuddle.com/newforum/viewtopic.php?p=119111

Actually that's 3 out of 5 (4 out of 6 if you count Davis) that's in the top half of the first round.

We share the same view as far as priority of other positions in the first round. But recent history has shown that if a playmaker is available at either safety position (as the examples I listed are), then they're going to go in the first round and they're going to be counted on to play that position. It's just the way the game has changed lately.

And according to the article you posted, read the subtitle:

"College safety might play linebacker, too"

"Might" implies that there's a chance he'll play LB.
"Too" implies that he will definately play safety.

Are those two indications you were pointing to that shows he's going to play LB? If so, they're horrible indications.

""I'm glad the coaches made the decision that they did; I really felt comfortable at the position because I played it the last two years at school."

Sounds like the Carolina coaches know where's he's going to play (initially at least).

Again, indications? You're right though...the sentiments appear perfectly clear.

How about his success in New England?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Parcells has won a Superbowl without Belichick.

How many teams has he coached w/o Belichick? One?

How many coaches have won Super Bowls with one team but couldn't do squat with another? Does that put them in Belichick's league as well?

Not to take anything away from Belichick mind you. He's obviously got the best gig in the league going. But to say he deserves more credit than Parcells is a stretch at best. Unless of course you're willing to give more credit to the Patriots' coordinators than you are Belichick.

See how that double edge sword works?

GoPats
05-30-2005, 04:36 PM
I'll take Belichick over Parcells anyday, JMO.

I've been lucky enough to have both guys coach the Patriots, and if you asked me this question five years ago it would have been a no-brainer. Parcells all the way.

But...

Ask me today, and it's a still no-brainer, but the other way around. Belichick has now surpassed Parcells' accomplishments (three SB wins as head coach to two) and was obviously an integral part of the success that Parcells had everywhere he went, from the Giants to the Patriots to the Jets. Each of those teams was known more for defense than offense, and in each case Belichick was the mind behind it all (even though Al Groh was technically the D-coordinator of the '96 Patriots team that lost to Green Bay).

Belichick now owns THE best coaching record in NFL playoff history, surpassing Vince Lombardi's win total last year. He's also the perfect coach for the salary cap era, in that he's very even-keeled and unemotional and can make difficult decisions (like letting go of Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law, etc) without wavering.

So if I've got to build a team in today's NFL, I'd go with Little Bill. And I'm saying that with complete objectivity, because I'm also really grateful to Parcells for what he did for New England.

Huge
05-30-2005, 04:39 PM
I'll take Belichick over Parcells anyday, JMO.

I would too. Belichick is the hottet coach going. Just about anybody is going to want him to be their head coach.

But if I have to take Parcells as a consolation, I'm very comfortable with that.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
05-30-2005, 06:26 PM
I hear ya. Parcells is better than Campo and Gailey. :cool:

Don't even remind me of Campo and Gailey...http://www.cowboys-forum.com/forum/images/cowboys_smilies/angry_no-no.gif

TEXANS84
06-01-2005, 03:46 PM
Its getting even stranger in little D. Seems like La'Roi Glover (who has gone to 5 consecutive Pro-Bowls) may find himself on the bench as a backup.


-- Cowboys' 3-4 Defense Not for Glover & Ellis --
Wed Jun 1, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Dallas Morning News reports the Cowboys' new 3-4 defense doesn't fit the skill sets of DT La'Roi Glover and DE Greg Ellis. Ellis, who weighs about 275 pounds, is going to be asked to play head up on 330-pound tackles. He's also moved to the right side, which means he's going to be facing the left tackle, usually the best pass-blocker and lineman on each team. Glover appears headed to a backup role, which is not going to make him happy for a couple of reasons. First, his job has basically been given to NT Jason Ferguson without a competition. Second, he's been to five consecutive Pro Bowls, and if he's not starting the Cowboys can give him any excuse or spin they want then he's not going to the Pro Bowl this season.

TheOgre
06-01-2005, 04:56 PM
2002 - Roy Williams - 1st round SS (8th overall pick)
2002 - Ed Reed - 1st round FS (24th overall pick)

Isn't it ironic that Roy has been a FS for the past 3 seasons and Ed has played SS?

Huge
06-01-2005, 09:06 PM
Its getting even stranger in little D. Seems like La'Roi Glover (who has gone to 5 consecutive Pro-Bowls) may find himself on the bench as a backup.


-- Cowboys' 3-4 Defense Not for Glover & Ellis --
Wed Jun 1, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Dallas Morning News reports the Cowboys' new 3-4 defense doesn't fit the skill sets of DT La'Roi Glover and DE Greg Ellis. Ellis, who weighs about 275 pounds, is going to be asked to play head up on 330-pound tackles. He's also moved to the right side, which means he's going to be facing the left tackle, usually the best pass-blocker and lineman on each team. Glover appears headed to a backup role, which is not going to make him happy for a couple of reasons. First, his job has basically been given to NT Jason Ferguson without a competition. Second, he's been to five consecutive Pro Bowls, and if he's not starting the Cowboys can give him any excuse or spin they want then he's not going to the Pro Bowl this season.

Maybe they should've asked Roy what he thought... (http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?id=1B032196-95BF-A6D4-80BC69039112940C)

Isn't it ironic that Roy has been a FS for the past 3 seasons and Ed has played SS?

Lil' bit. More of a nature of the beast thing. Roy wasn't going to play SS because of Woodson. I might be wrong about Reed though. He may have been a SS all along.