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Texn4life
08-07-2012, 03:12 AM
This article got me thinking about something, and especially the quoted portion below.

Texans pass rush could be overwhelming for quarterbacks (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/08/pass-rush-could-be-overwhelming-for-qbs/)

When Phillips has had inside linebackers who can rush, he’s sent them after the passer. Don’t be surprised if Cushing doubles his career high.

If you’re the opposing quarterback, and Phillips is calling for a six-player blitz, here’s who’s coming: Barwin, Mercilus, Watt, Smith, Reed and Cushing.

At first I was thinking that the John McClain wasn't thinking straight when he mentioned a 6-player blitz with these 6 players on the field. I still don't know that its going to happen at all this year, but its not outside the realm of possibility that we'll have Barwin, Reed, and Mercilus on the field at the same time playing linebacker. In Shawne Merriman's first year with San Diego and Wade as his DC there were times when he'd play inside and rush from the inside backer position. It wasn't something that he showed a lot, and I only remember him doing it his rookie year (particularly against Indy when they broke a long winning streak of the Colts in 2005) but don't be surprised if its unveiled against a team like Green Bay or New England.

The danger of that is you're going to have to play man, and leave the defense susceptible to giving up a big play. It would seem like Reed would be a more natural fit to move inside and rush if we were to bring a rush with these 6 guys, but the thought of it has me excited.

b0ng
08-07-2012, 12:05 PM
This article got me thinking about something, and especially the quoted portion below.

Texans pass rush could be overwhelming for quarterbacks (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/08/pass-rush-could-be-overwhelming-for-qbs/)



At first I was thinking that the John McClain wasn't thinking straight when he mentioned a 6-player blitz with these 6 players on the field. I still don't know that its going to happen at all this year, but its not outside the realm of possibility that we'll have Barwin, Reed, and Mercilus on the field at the same time playing linebacker. In Shawne Merriman's first year with San Diego and Wade as his DC there were times when he'd play inside and rush from the inside backer position. It wasn't something that he showed a lot, and I only remember him doing it his rookie year (particularly against Indy when they broke a long winning streak of the Colts in 2005) but don't be surprised if its unveiled against a team like Green Bay or New England.

The danger of that is you're going to have to play man, and leave the defense susceptible to giving up a big play. It would seem like Reed would be a more natural fit to move inside and rush if we were to bring a rush with these 6 guys, but the thought of it has me excited.

So I'm guessing in that scenario our NT drops back into coverage? I'm pretty sure Mercilus, Reed and Barwin will not be on the field at the same time very much this season.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2012, 12:08 PM
So I'm guessing in that scenario our NT drops back into coverage? I'm pretty sure Mercilus, Reed and Barwin will not be on the field at the same time very much this season.

Which is what the OP said.

GP
08-07-2012, 12:12 PM
I believe this is called the "O.S. Blitz Package"

The opponent's o-coord and QB say "Oh ****!" when they see the Texans in that formation. LOL.

Rey
08-07-2012, 12:26 PM
So I'm guessing in that scenario our NT drops back into coverage? I'm pretty sure Mercilus, Reed and Barwin will not be on the field at the same time very much this season.

There would be no NT in the game. You wouldn't have cody or Earl in the game there if it's a definite passing situation...

Double Barrel
08-07-2012, 12:35 PM
Yeah, man coverage is the weak point, but hopefully it's not a concern because the QB is on his butt after taking a big hit from one of the blitzers. At least that's the intent of this package. Cool read!

Scooter
08-07-2012, 12:41 PM
there will be tons of 6 man blitzes, but it's not going to be from adding another OLB to the play - he'd use instead a safety or corner in such a case. wade has a very simple and very effective defense, and just like last year it's going to be our standard 5 man front with cushing coming inside on base and run downs. on passing downs we'll again spend our time in nickel (or dime depending on james' ability to stay in on passing downs) with a 4 man front and lots of looks from the ILB's and safeties.

wade can get plenty creative, but it's usually much more subtle than crashing his OLB's inside (outside of a few stunts to keep teams honest).

Rey
08-07-2012, 01:14 PM
there will be tons of 6 man blitzes, but it's not going to be from adding another OLB to the play

I heard wade say in an interview that he is going to put his best pass rushers on the field and there might be times where barwin, merci, and reed are out there together.

TimeKiller
08-07-2012, 02:36 PM
Yeah, if they're all just rushing would it really matter what position they play?

No.

I'd take JJo, Manning and the rest of the backfield for the 3 or 4 seconds it's going to take to have the QB curled up in a ball underneath 6 angry Texans over just about any passing attack. I don't think teams can just sling quick slants the whole game anymore, this isn't Richard's Smith "wait-and-see" style. JJo will take that to the bank!

Texn4life
08-07-2012, 02:57 PM
Yeah, if they're all just rushing would it really matter what position they play?

The only reason it would matter is because some guys just aren't comfortable rushing or blitzing from the inside. Barwin has a little bit of experience with it in the first game of the season against the Colts in 2010. They moved him around a lot that game before he got hurt, so he's a possibility to do it in this situation.

Scooter
08-07-2012, 03:46 PM
I heard wade say in an interview that he is going to put his best pass rushers on the field and there might be times where barwin, merci, and reed are out there together.

and it's possible, but i dont see it happening. to do so would put an OLB attacking the B gap or push the outside-most linebacker too far away to be effective. all have experience at defensive end so it's not out of the question to move inside, but it complicates an area of strength when there are many more productive options. if it were to be effective it would've been more so with a guy like mario with the size and strength to match up against guards as opposed to barwin. wade likes his extra rush coming from the inside linebackers and safeties.

Texn4life
08-07-2012, 04:00 PM
and it's possible, but i dont see it happening. to do so would put an OLB attacking the B gap or push the outside-most linebacker too far away to be effective. all have experience at defensive end so it's not out of the question to move inside, but it complicates an area of strength when there are many more productive options. if it were to be effective it would've been more so with a guy like mario with the size and strength to match up against guards as opposed to barwin. wade likes his extra rush coming from the inside linebackers and safeties.

Like I said in my initial post, I don't think its something he'll do a lot but it's possible. He has a track record of moving an OLB inside like I stated he did with Merriman his rookie year. I can't say I remember him doing it with any other teams, but I know for a fact he did it with him.

As far as backers blitzing from the inside, you're not necessarily looking for a guys strong enough to out physical a guard. You're looking to create mismatches with the amount of speed on the field. With Merriman, he disguised the looks so you didn't know where he was coming from. Depending on the protection of the offense, you may have a Guard/Center picking up a blitzing LB if he can recognize it in time and get there. Then most likely you'll have a mismatch of a RB picking up a LB. I'll take my chances with Cush, Reed, Mercilus, or Barwin against a RB any day of the week. Wade found ways to utilize his toys in San Diego.

nero THE zero
08-07-2012, 04:10 PM
This article got me thinking about something, and especially the quoted portion below.

Texans pass rush could be overwhelming for quarterbacks (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/08/pass-rush-could-be-overwhelming-for-qbs/)



At first I was thinking that the John McClain wasn't thinking straight when he mentioned a 6-player blitz with these 6 players on the field. I still don't know that its going to happen at all this year, but its not outside the realm of possibility that we'll have Barwin, Reed, and Mercilus on the field at the same time playing linebacker. In Shawne Merriman's first year with San Diego and Wade as his DC there were times when he'd play inside and rush from the inside backer position. It wasn't something that he showed a lot, and I only remember him doing it his rookie year (particularly against Indy when they broke a long winning streak of the Colts in 2005) but don't be surprised if its unveiled against a team like Green Bay or New England.

The danger of that is you're going to have to play man, and leave the defense susceptible to giving up a big play. It would seem like Reed would be a more natural fit to move inside and rush if we were to bring a rush with these 6 guys, but the thought of it has me excited.

This quote (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/07/linebacker-reed-fierce-on-the-field-a-cool-customer-off-it/) struck me as odd, maybe a misspeak, when I read it, but maybe you're onto something here.
Herring also talked about Reed’s “linebacker body.”

“That’s where people get discombobulated with him,” Herring said. “Look, he’s 6-2½, 250. The fact that he was playing with his hand in the dirt (the three-point stance of a defensive end) in college turned him into a ‘tweener’ to some people. But he was always a ‘Mike’ linebacker to us. Half the teams in the draft wanted him bad, and the other half didn’t think he could (make the transition). We were in the half that saw the upside potential. He’s still projecting and growing as a player. The sky’s the limit.”

Maybe there's intent to use him in the middle more, now or in the future. Maybe they ultimately see him playing inside.

The Pencil Neck
08-07-2012, 04:22 PM
This quote (http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/07/linebacker-reed-fierce-on-the-field-a-cool-customer-off-it/) struck me as odd, maybe a misspeak, when I read it, but maybe you're onto something here.


Maybe there's intent to use him in the middle more, now or in the future. Maybe they ultimately see him playing inside.

That would really explain:
1) The Mercilus Pick
2) The Demeco trade

If they're planning for a future with Barwin and Mercilus on the outside and Cush and Reed on the inside, it makes a lot of sense. That, and picking up Bradie James as a transition player until Reed can transition to the middle. That would give us an entire starting LB corps drafted in the last few years instead of 3 OLBs and a looming hole in the middle.

Unless they saw Sharpton as the future in the middle... which I'm starting to doubt.

76Texan
08-07-2012, 05:03 PM
Wade has all kinds of blitz packages in his playbook; it's just a matter whether he wants to use them or not.

We can blitz 6 from our base defense, from nickel, dime, bear, anything.
(We can even blitz with both the dime and nickel back if we want to.)

An example of a 6-man blitz that I can remember was the sack on Collins in the 4th quarter.

We were in a 4-man (wide front) nickel personnel.
Mario was at SDE (on Clark); he got the sack.
Smith at SDT; Watt at WDT (both lined up ouside the Guard on their side);
Cushing at SAM (on LOS, outside strong side OT; ie. between Mario and Smith).
Ryans at MO (but was head up on the Center);
and Barwin at WDE.

The Colts were in 11 personnel.

It was 3rd and 5.

With both Ryans and Cushing coming, Addai picked up Cushing.

In this instance, we still had 5 to cover 4.
We blitzed 6 against 6 blockers.

.....

There were at least a couple of occasions last year when I mentioned that we had zero coverage (ie. single coverage on each of the 5 offensive threats).
I don't remember if one of them stay back to block or not.
If one of them did, it became a 7-man blitz (all-out blitz.)

....

In Wade's playbook, I noticed a Jet Blitz from base 34.
All seven guys up front come.
Even if there was a TE, they don't care (the SS will pick him up).
If the RB releases, one of the LB will take him.
I'm pretty sure we didn't see this one last year.

....

There are other 6-man blitzes from Wade's playbook I haven't seen yet, and it won't surprise me at all if we see some of those (if not all) this year.

76Texan
08-07-2012, 05:12 PM
It looks to me that the Texans have a lot of versatility in their guys.

As somebody already mentioned, Barwin had played second level LB in 2010 - all over the place.
Reed showed the ability to flex his hips in coverage; he can certainly play ILB.
Mercilus had played plenty of 34 DE; he even lined up on the Guard at times.

By the way, in Wade's scheme, the NT can drop back in coverage (I've seen them doing it, but I don't think Cody ever did, however.)
Basically, they just sit in the short hole; nothing to it.

76Texan
08-07-2012, 05:25 PM
There would be no NT in the game. You wouldn't have cody or Earl in the game there if it's a definite passing situation...

But they were!

76Texan
08-07-2012, 05:35 PM
Like I said in my initial post, I don't think its something he'll do a lot but it's possible. He has a track record of moving an OLB inside like I stated he did with Merriman his rookie year. I can't say I remember him doing it with any other teams, but I know for a fact he did it with him.

As far as backers blitzing from the inside, you're not necessarily looking for a guys strong enough to out physical a guard. You're looking to create mismatches with the amount of speed on the field. With Merriman, he disguised the looks so you didn't know where he was coming from. Depending on the protection of the offense, you may have a Guard/Center picking up a blitzing LB if he can recognize it in time and get there. Then most likely you'll have a mismatch of a RB picking up a LB. I'll take my chances with Cush, Reed, Mercilus, or Barwin against a RB any day of the week. Wade found ways to utilize his toys in San Diego.
Mike Croel, Broncos.
He played mostly MO in his rookie year, then moved to 34 SAM the next two years. He then played 43 SAM in his fourth year.
(Wade moved to a base 43 in his last year with the Broncos.)

TexansSeminole
08-07-2012, 05:35 PM
I have heard several times that Reed will be playing more inside, or atleast blitzing from that spot alot more this season. I would be surprised if we don't see that package and a 6 man blitz out of that package atleast once per game or two.

badboy
08-07-2012, 06:01 PM
Offense should counter with quick passes to TEs if Qb has a good release. I think success for defense comes from how well team can hide the call. I think we have not come close to seeing the full defensive package Wade can use.

76Texan
08-07-2012, 06:04 PM
That would really explain:
1) The Mercilus Pick
2) The Demeco trade

If they're planning for a future with Barwin and Mercilus on the outside and Cush and Reed on the inside, it makes a lot of sense. That, and picking up Bradie James as a transition player until Reed can transition to the middle. That would give us an entire starting LB corps drafted in the last few years instead of 3 OLBs and a looming hole in the middle.

Unless they saw Sharpton as the future in the middle... which I'm starting to doubt.

There's a reason why I projected Sharpton as a 4th rounder instead of where he was drafted (3rd round).

He's a bit too small to be "great" in the 34 as a SAM.
He was pretty good in coverage in college against TEs and RBs, but it's hard to say how that would translate to the next level.

Sharpton is a guy with a quick first step and a quick short burst.
His 10-yd split is 1.58 compared to 1.56 for Morris Claiborne, a first round CB.
(J. Jo, Kareem Jackson, Brandon Harris and Cushing all checked in at 1.53; Demeco was at 1.64.)

I agree that Sharpton is really stretching it at either ILB in the 34.
But he did well last year though; he was the first man in (and not Dobbins).

Sharpton is a hell a lot stronger than most people think.
I had mentioned him taking on Iupati to a draw.
And this guy is what? 331 lbs, and he was a first round draft pick for the Niners.

The injury might do him in - a very good possibility.
Still, I thought I'd remind folks about certain of their concern that might have been a bit too harsh.

Sharpton's ability and skill sets should be good at least good enough as a back-up in the 3-4 from everything I've been seeing.

P.S. - I liked Sharpton out of college due to his versatility; he played all 3 LB positions in the 43 and played them well (at the collegiate level, at Miami). Also, he was a decent pass rusher when put on the LOS as an OLB (there weren't enough snaps to realy tell the story there.) He can rush better from the inside (it doesn't have to result in a sack or a QB hurry, just the fact that he beat his man in a certain amount of time to be considered "effective").

Lucky
08-07-2012, 07:06 PM
There's a reason why I projected Sharpton as a 4th rounder instead of where he was drafted (3rd round).
Sharpton was actually drafted with the 4th pick in the 4th round of the 2010 draft (overall selection #102 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2010&year_max=2010&type=&round_min=4&round_max=4&slot_min=1&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos=ALL&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all)).

76Texan
08-07-2012, 08:08 PM
Sharpton was actually drafted with the 4th pick in the 4th round of the 2010 draft (overall selection #102 (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/draft-finder.cgi?request=1&year_min=2010&year_max=2010&type=&round_min=4&round_max=4&slot_min=1&slot_max=500&league_id=&team_id=&pos=ALL&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all)).

Thanks for the correction.

Basically, I thought of Sharpton as a 4th (not quite as high as #4, but...)

A high 4th is a "long shot" to become a starter, but should be a legitimate back-up... and so on.

Again, you can see that I like his ability.
Whether it was a bit of a reach, an overall fourth round grade was quite fair.

Texan_Bill
08-07-2012, 08:19 PM
Offense should counter with quick passes to TEs if Qb has a good release. I think success for defense comes from how well team can hide the call. I think we have not come close to seeing the full defensive package Wade can use.

As I have posted before, either Barwin or Watt said that (and irrespective of Wade's supposed "second year drop-off") that last season (and because of no OTA's) that Wade only installed about 75% of his defense. *WOW, was that a horribly constructed, run on sentence with poor overall grammar*

If true, we could see the NFL's number #1 ranked D this year.

76Texan
08-07-2012, 09:02 PM
As I have posted before, either Barwin or Watt said that (and irrespective of Wade's supposed "second year drop-off") that last season (and because of no OTA's) that Wade only installed about 75% of his defense. *WOW, was that a horribly constructed, run on sentence with poor overall grammar*

If true, we could see the NFL's number #1 ranked D this year.

I don't know where they will rank, Bill.
But we both love great defensive football, and I intend to enjoy the next one just as much as the last.

Texan_Bill
08-07-2012, 09:18 PM
I don't know where they will rank, Bill.
But we both love great defensive football, and I intend to enjoy the next one just as much as the last.

Yessir... I agree. BTW, you need to call your shot whenever you're coming out to re-visit Blue Crew!!

That said, I'm calling my shot. The Texans will be a top 5 defense (#obviously *minus major injuries*). This defense has the potential to be a *dare I say it* dominant defense that won Baltimore a Super Bowl Championship with Trent Dilfer at the offensive helm???

SH!TE happens... One can hope!!! 45 years of nothingness in Houston Pro-football!!

GO GAMBLERS!! ;)

Corrosion
08-08-2012, 01:31 AM
There would be no NT in the game. You wouldn't have cody or Earl in the game there if it's a definite passing situation...

I heard wade say in an interview that he is going to put his best pass rushers on the field and there might be times where barwin, merci, and reed are out there together.

Just to add my two cents to your line of thought -


Often Antonio Smith moved inside on passing downs making room for another pass rusher on the outside and moving to a four man front (usually MW). It is possible we see a front similar to the following:

Mercilus Watt Smith Barwin

Reed Cushing

TimeKiller
08-08-2012, 09:03 AM
What's doubly exciting for me is that once they establish they can come get you real fast by sending 6, they'll line up as imposingly as possible and end up rushing 3.....

.....and still get a sack!