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texanfan2002114
05-23-2005, 08:35 PM
Texans | Shelton to Visit - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 23 May 2005 18:29:51 -0700

Adam Schefter, of NFL.com, reports free agent OT L.J. Shelton (Cardinals) will visit with the Houston Texans later this week. They see Shelton as a left tackle and someone who can protect QB David Carr's blind side.

carrtex
05-23-2005, 08:43 PM
i think they should jump on this one

texan279
05-23-2005, 08:44 PM
He is also visiting with the Chiefs, Bears, and Jaguars...

DRIFTAWAY
05-23-2005, 08:47 PM
Here's our chance. Maybe the Pitts to LT and Wand to LG was a big smokescreen thrown by CC as he plans on taking Shelton? Maybe he wants to play both Shelton and Wand at the same time and use Pitts as a backup to Shelton. But it probably is just a simple visit as all teams that have a need player become available usually bring him in for a visit, even if they know they won't sign him. I really hope it was the first one though.

I could see him going to the Bears though.

WildBlackBear32
05-23-2005, 08:54 PM
He is also visiting with the Chiefs, Bears, and Jaguars...

Just what the Cheifs need...another great(although Shelton is relatively unproven) lineman...

Texans Pride
05-23-2005, 09:19 PM
Here is a bit more from Adam Schefter

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/8498274

First, the Texans made a major run at free-agent left tackle Orlando Pace. Once they failed to land him, they turned back to left tackle Seth Wand. Then, when the Texans convened for on-field drills today, they had moved Wand to left guard and Chester Pitts to left tackle. Last week, the Texans also signed veteran free agent Victor Riley, who can play left or right tackle. But for the right price, the Texans would love to add Shelton to protect David Carr's blind side. Shelton wants to play left tackle. And if that's the key factor, he could wind up in Houston.

You can find the rest of the story from the link.

Texans Pride
05-23-2005, 09:21 PM
I really hope it was the first one though.

I believe we are actually his last visit.

ledzeppelin229
05-23-2005, 09:28 PM
Really I don't mind being the last one he visits - it should be the most lasting impression and we have more time to prepare. It also means he hasn't made up his mind yet. I don't have a problem with Wand being a backup for a few years if Shelton performs much better. At some point, maybe Wand will be ready to take the job from Shelton.

Texans Pride
05-23-2005, 09:34 PM
I've often heard of players having multiple visits with teams, but finding one he like in the first or second visit and canceling the rest of the visits...

Take that for what it is worth.

TexanFanInCC
05-23-2005, 09:36 PM
Here's our chance. Maybe the Pitts to LT and Wand to LG was a big smokescreen thrown by CC as he plans on taking Shelton? Maybe he wants to play both Shelton and Wand at the same time and use Pitts as a backup to Shelton. But it probably is just a simple visit as all teams that have a need player become available usually bring him in for a visit, even if they know they won't sign him. I really hope it was the first one though.

I could see him going to the Bears though.


If he came to houston, there is no way that chester pitts would be our backup. he was arguably our best lineman last yr. he would likely stay at LG while shelton starts at LT. wand is the one who would be on the bench backing up shelton.

TexanFan881
05-23-2005, 09:41 PM
Here is a bit more from Adam Schefter

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/8498274

First, the Texans made a major run at free-agent left tackle Orlando Pace. Once they failed to land him, they turned back to left tackle Seth Wand. Then, when the Texans convened for on-field drills today, they had moved Wand to left guard and Chester Pitts to left tackle. Last week, the Texans also signed veteran free agent Victor Riley, who can play left or right tackle. But for the right price, the Texans would love to add Shelton to protect David Carr's blind side. Shelton wants to play left tackle. And if that's the key factor, he could wind up in Houston.

You can find the rest of the story from the link.

Included in the article...

And then, it's on to the team that might need Shelton most -- Houston.

I really hope that we can pick him up but if we want him too badly I am worried we might over pay him like some people said when we signed Morlon Greenwood. I think at a reasonable amount we should get him, but lets not get ridiculous.

F-minus67
05-23-2005, 09:42 PM
I doubt that the bears sign him, I mean thet have Tait and Coloumbo battling it out for LT and I don't think they have the $$ to sign him.

Texans Pride
05-23-2005, 09:44 PM
How much do we think it would cost to get him, and how much to we have to spend on him?

dalemurphy
05-23-2005, 09:49 PM
If he came to houston, there is no way that chester pitts would be our backup. he was arguably our best lineman last yr. he would likely stay at LG while shelton starts at LT. wand is the one who would be on the bench backing up shelton.


Well, Pitts could also play RG, I'm sure. If Wade was injured, he could play RT as well...

Look, I don't know that Shelton is the answer, but I do know that an OL that includes Wade, Wand, Pitts, Riley, Shelton and Weigert increase the odds that we'll be able to field 2 healthy guards and 2 healthy tackles who will play up to the coaches' expectations.

Quality depth is a wonderful thing!!

Texan Dave
05-24-2005, 04:09 AM
I don't know that Shelton would be the answer either, but think of it this way guys. If Shelton signs, and considering that he has started at LT for years, and Wand or Pitts starts infront of him, it will probably mean they've gotten better, not that these other guys who have started for teams aren't any good. This is the NFL and these guys don't get their and start for teams for multiple years because they suck. Yes I'm saying that their is a possibility that Wand and Pitts have gotten better, even if they swap positions. Their's also that posibility that Wand could turn out be a better guard than Pitts, just as Pitts would be better at LT than Wand. Bottom line is that if Wand sucked, or had no talent, he would definately have never lined up at LT last year. Bruce Mathews was a way better guard than tackle, although, Bruce Mathews in the same breath as any of these guys may be a sin.

O.G.
05-24-2005, 07:05 AM
If he came to houston, there is no way that chester pitts would be our backup. he was arguably our best lineman last yr. he would likely stay at LG while shelton starts at LT. wand is the one who would be on the bench backing up shelton.

I totally agree. He has gone thru his share of growing pains and is our best lineman without a doubt.

El Tejano
05-24-2005, 10:38 AM
Bruce Mathews in the same breath as any of these guys may be a sin.

Okay as a pennance you must find out who were the starting 5 lineman for the Oilers in 1985.

Really though, getting Shelton does alot more than we think. First off it answers not drafting a LT in the draft. If we draft a LT in this past draft, we probably don't go the route of trying to get this guy. Second, it brings the signing of Riley to an even better status because it spells the end for Spears and it now allows us to have quality depth at RT behind Wade. Third, with Riley moving to RT it will increase the longevity of the Wand expirement giving the kid from the very small school more reps with alot less pressure. Fourth, it gives us a legitimate LT for the first time in franchise history-nuff said there.

Basically our line looks like this:

Shelton Pitts Mckinney Weigert Wade
Wand MBrown Rookie Washington Riley

Oh yeah my fifth point is that if we get this guy and he works out, we probably wont have to draft high for a lineman in future drafts to come. We can get some good guards in the later rounds.

Nawzer
05-24-2005, 10:45 AM
Sign him up C.C!!! With Shelton either Wand or Pitts will be a backup and that maybe a good thing for us. If Shelton signs it's likely that Wand will be the backup left tackle and he will provide us with good depth. Shelton is a proven player in this league and I think he'll improve our o-line a lot if we can sign him.

TheOgre
05-24-2005, 10:53 AM
LT Shelton
LG Pitts
C McKinney
RG Wiegert
RT Wade

I could live with that.

Ibar_Harry
05-24-2005, 11:00 AM
LT Shelton
LG Pitts
C McKinney
RG Wiegert
RT Wade

I could live with that.

My only comment is based on what we have seen, and that is, we would love to be able to replace McKinney to. He seems to be the delta or the mouth of the river for the kill the QB guys.

bckey
05-24-2005, 11:13 AM
My only comment is based on what we have seen, and that is, we would love to be able to replace McKinney to. He seems to be the delta or the mouth of the river for the kill the QB guys.


You got that right.

El Tejano
05-24-2005, 11:33 AM
In that case Mckinney could get challenged for his spot in the future or this TC if the rookie proves to be worthy. I think we see a different McKinney this season. This has pretty much been the first time the organization has put someone directly behind him in TC.

TheOgre
05-24-2005, 12:41 PM
I agree about McKinney, but I don't see anything being done about it this year. Perhaps in 2006, we will "go for youth" at C.

El Tejano
05-24-2005, 12:55 PM
All this talk has us looking pretty good though if we get Shelton.

royce1054
05-24-2005, 01:43 PM
hasnt mckninney been there the longest at the same position. Everyones else has changed spots...

TEXANS84
05-24-2005, 03:12 PM
-- Bears to Host Shelton Today --
Tue May 24, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Chicago Sun-Times reports the Bears will host veteran free agent OT L.J. Shelton (Cardinals) today. If the Bears sign him, they could move him to guard and allow him to battle with ORG Terrence Metcalf and ORG Roberto Garza. After the Bears, Shelton will visit with Kansas City, Jacksonville and Houston. The Texans probably offer the only opportunity to start at his position of choice, left tackle. Shelton's work ethic has been questioned at times, but the Bears could have a good read on him. He is represented by the same firm that handles Bears OT John Tait, OG Ruben Brown and OT Qasim Mitchell.

throwANDREtheBALL
05-24-2005, 03:46 PM
If we could have a stable LT it would do wonders for our line. Shelton prefers LT, and hopefully Casserly is smart enough to sign him and not just be bringing him in to make it look like he's trying.

TexansTrueFan
05-24-2005, 04:36 PM
any competition is better than none ! Plus the guy dont look to be to bad of a line men !

Hoss
05-24-2005, 05:57 PM
this would be a sweet pick!C.C. just needs to do this!!!!

THEFUTURE
05-24-2005, 06:37 PM
man mckinney is good and with hogden as back up we even better plus man with shelton pitts and wade i have faith but we need to get rid of weigert i dont have much faith in him

the second you said mckinney is good the rest of your post had no merit, on what planet, of what universe is mckinney good, at anything? no wait he is good at one thing, being a doormat... and weigert is not our problem on the Line, Mckinney and Wand are our current problem... and we havent signed Shelton, so how can you have faith in him

texan279
05-24-2005, 06:40 PM
the second you said mckinney is good the rest of your post had no merit, on what planet, of what universe is mckinney good, at anything? no wait he is good at one thing, being a doormat... and weigert is not our problem on the Line, Mckinney and Wand are our current problem... and we havent signed Shelton, so how can you have faith in him

Sacks allowed by our O line last season...


M.Brown - 1.75
S.McKinney - 4.00
C.Pitts - 6.00
T.Wade - 6.00
S.Wand - 12.50
T.Washington- 1.00
Z.Wiegert - 4.50

Ibar_Harry
05-24-2005, 06:45 PM
Sacks allowed by our O line last season...


M.Brown - 1.75
S.McKinney - 4.00
C.Pitts - 6.00
T.Wade - 6.00
S.Wand - 12.50
T.Washington- 1.00
Z.Wiegert - 4.50

Yes and most will say others got the sacks, but McKinney was the reason why. He was really the responsible party in many cases, but doesn't get them based on what happened.

texan279
05-24-2005, 06:52 PM
The only person on that list with a considerable number of sacks is Wand, are you saying McKinney was responsible for Wand's 12.5 sacks allowed? I could understand McKinney being responsible for some of the guard's sacks, but the left tackle's sacks?

TexanFan881
05-24-2005, 07:23 PM
-- Bears to Host Shelton Today --
Tue May 24, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Chicago Sun-Times reports the Bears will host veteran free agent OT L.J. Shelton (Cardinals) today. If the Bears sign him, they could move him to guard and allow him to battle with ORG Terrence Metcalf and ORG Roberto Garza. After the Bears, Shelton will visit with Kansas City, Jacksonville and Houston. The Texans probably offer the only opportunity to start at his position of choice, left tackle. Shelton's work ethic has been questioned at times, but the Bears could have a good read on him. He is represented by the same firm that handles Bears OT John Tait, OG Ruben Brown and OT Qasim Mitchell.

I think that is why the Texans might have a better shot at getting him than the other teams. He probably would rather get less money and start than get more money to be a back up because he probably wants to go out there and prove everyone that he is a good player. I read article after article about him, and I just keep hoping more and more that we will make a move because we have the cap space to go out and give him a good offer.

wags
05-24-2005, 07:37 PM
Sacks allowed by our O line last season...


M.Brown - 1.75
S.McKinney - 4.00
C.Pitts - 6.00
T.Wade - 6.00
S.Wand - 12.50
T.Washington- 1.00
Z.Wiegert - 4.50

Does that add up to 49?. :confused: I know Carr didn't run out of bounds that many times.

vtech9
05-24-2005, 07:40 PM
The only person on that list with a considerable number of sacks is Wand, are you saying McKinney was responsible for Wand's 12.5 sacks allowed? I could understand McKinney being responsible for some of the guard's sacks, but the left tackle's sacks?
To an extent. McKinney was one of the reasons that Wand had that many. Wand did get burnt by Freeney in the 2nd game against the Colts. However, at least a few of Wands sacks were due to McKinney getting blown back in to Carr's face forcing him out of the pocket and into the path of the DE that was being blocked by Wand or Wade. McKinney's guy only made the sack 4 times, but in actuality, McKinney was the cause of several other sacks.

texan279
05-24-2005, 07:45 PM
To an extent. McKinney was one of the reasons that Wand had that many. Wand did get burnt by Freeney in the 2nd game against the Colts. However, at least a few of Wands sacks were due to McKinney getting blown back in to Carr's face forcing him out of the pocket and into the path of the DE that was being blocked by Wand or Wade. McKinney's guy only made the sack 4 times, but in actuality, McKinney was the cause of several other sacks.

Well if Carr was forced to roll to his left because of McKinney getting plowed over, what does that say about the right side of the line?

vtech9
05-24-2005, 07:59 PM
Well if Carr was forced to roll to his left because of McKinney getting plowed over, what does that say about the right side of the line?If you will notice, I said ...into the path of the DE that was being blocked by Wand or Wade...Meaning both sides. But, the majority of the time Carr did go left. It is a natural reaction for a right-handed QB to go to his left, because he is moving away from what he sees coming from the direction he is facing.

texan279
05-24-2005, 08:11 PM
Why would Carr roll out to the side where the most pressure comes from most of the time? And it is not a natural reaction for a right handed QB to roll to his left. Do you know how hard it is for a right handed QB to throw the ball across his body while rolling to his left?

vtech9
05-24-2005, 08:25 PM
Why would Carr roll out to the side where the most pressure comes from most of the time? And it is not a natural reaction for a right handed QB to roll to his left. Do you know how hard it is for a right handed QB to throw the ball across his body while rolling to his left?
Have you played QB? Think about it...if you see pressure coming, isn't your first reaction going to be to go the other way? If pressure comes up the middle and he has room to run to the right he will, but in a normal pocket, the two OT's try to push their guys wide to give the QB a "pocket" to step up into. If the middle holds up, and the OT pushes his guy past the QB the QB has a choice, but if the middle collapses before the RT can push his guy past, the QB's first reaction is to go to the left because he knows right off that he can't get anywhere going right. Even though the QB faces the same problem on the left, he doesn't know it until he turns to start running that way. In so doing, he runs right into the path of the oncoming DE or LB. Hopefully, I was clear enough for you to understand what I am trying to say. If not, I don't know what else I can possibly say to make you understand.

texan279
05-24-2005, 08:39 PM
Actually I have played QB before, not on the NFL level, but I have played it before. The QB rolls to whichever side there is the less amount of pressure coming from, which is usually the right side. Why do you think the LT is the most important position on the O line? Because the best DE usually plays on the right side of the defensive line, or the left side of the O line. Also, a right handed QB will roll to his right because it is easier to throw while rolling to his right, as long as there is no pressure on the right side.

vtech9
05-24-2005, 09:06 PM
Actually I have played QB before, not on the NFL level, but I have played it before. The QB rolls to whichever side there is the less amount of pressure coming from, which is usually the right side. Why do you think the LT is the most important position on the O line? Because the best DE usually plays on the right side of the defensive line, or the left side of the O line. Also, a right handed QB will roll to his right because it is easier to throw while rolling to his right, as long as there is no pressure on the right side.
put it this way...Have you ever played dodge ball? Well, imagine that you are facing a guy with the ball and he is coming after you. Which direction are you going to go? Are you going to go in his direction? Probably not. Your 1st reaction is most likely to be to go in the opposite dirction to get away from him. In getting away from him, you get nailed by a guy coming from your blindside. You were so focused on the guy in FRONT of you that you didn't even notice that the guy on your blindside was about to nail you. That is basically what Carr has to deal with. He sees the guy in his face, so he tries to go the other direction and runs right into the DE coming from the other side. What I was trying to say is that if you are the QB and you have a guy in your face, your natural first reaction is to try and run the other direction. Understand?

texan279
05-24-2005, 09:10 PM
I don't think you understand. Most of the time, the most pressure comes from the left side.

vtech9
05-24-2005, 09:30 PM
I don't think you understand. Most of the time, the most pressure comes from the left side.
You still don't get what I am saying. Whether pressure comes from the left most of the time or not doesn't matter. It has no bearing on the point I am trying to get across to you. If you SEE someone COMING FROM THE SIDE YOU ARE FACING getting ready to HIT you, where are you going to go? Are you going to go in his direction so he can hit you sooner?

If you see the pressure coming from the right side and you don't see it coming from your left side because you are not facing in that direction, isn't your natural tendency to avoid what you can see?

Wolf
05-24-2005, 10:12 PM
I think center is one of our weak links also..McKinney gets pushed back to much into Carr's face.. it is one thing to get beat by the defensive end for a sack than for wand or Wade to do their job and keep the DE where he needs to be only to have carr get flushed out into the hands of the DE..

I guess that counts as a coverage sack..too bad Carr only has about 2-3 seconds to throw.

funny thing about the stats.. look at DD stats on runs up the middle.. not a bad average.. too bad lot of his yards are because of draw plays on 3rd and long..
Jags game should tell you we need help on interior of line..we tried 4 times to punch it in from the one.. and it had to be done by Carrs leap.. and he barely got that.. don't get me wrong,Jags have some monsters in the middle,but it is bad when we barely get a yard after multiple tries.

BornOrange
05-24-2005, 10:47 PM
I don't think you understand. Most of the time, the most pressure comes from the left side.

Go back and watch tapes of the Texans games. Most of Carr's pressure comes from the middle. He can't step up into the pocket because it has collapsed. Once Carr has to leave the pocket then all blocking angles get messed up. Even though Carr mainly goes to the right, Wand's man gets a disproportionate share of the sacks because usually the right defensive end is the best pass rusher and is the guy who is able to finish the job.

An all too common occurance would be for Carr to drop back, see pressure up the middle, roll to his right and then get run down from behind by the right defensive end. Even though it was Wand's man who gets credit for the sack, it was the defensive tackle or linebacker coming through the middle who caused the sack.

TEXANS84
05-24-2005, 11:20 PM
Does that add up to 49?. :confused: I know Carr didn't run out of bounds that many times.

Remember, Miller/Bruener/Norris/and Davis are responsible for sacks as well. That is where the figure seperates.

TEXANS84
05-24-2005, 11:31 PM
Bears | Shelton has Good Visit - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 24 May 2005 20:59:35 -0700

Terry Bannon, of the Chicago Tribune, reports free agent OT L.J. Shelton (Cardinals) had a good visit with the Chicago Bears Tuesday, May 24, according to agent Vance Larimer. "He had a good visit with the Bears, and he has a high interest level," Larimer said. "Right now we're evaluating opportunities." The Bears see Shelton, a former starting left tackle with the Arizona Cardinals, as a potential starter at right guard and a backup tackle. Unless he can't land a starting job somewhere else, it is doubtful Shelton would sign with the Bears.

Umm, is it me or is that two totally different reactions?

TMac48
05-25-2005, 12:00 AM
Umm, is it me or is that two totally different reactions?
I think that when he said "he has a high interest level", he was refering to the fact that alot of teams are interested in him. I could be wrong, because the way it is worded does seem the other way around.

ledzeppelin229
05-25-2005, 12:00 AM
I guess it was a good visit for a team he isn't really considering? If this is the scenario, then I think there's a very good chance he signs with Houston.

The agent is just trying to stir up the contract negotiations a little higher.

swtbound07
05-25-2005, 12:17 AM
nobody knows the 85 oilers o-line?

outofhnd
05-25-2005, 04:21 AM
The only guy i remember is Bruce Mathews & Mike Munchak (if he was around in 85) because i was 8 at that time.

Hmm I Think the acquisition of an every down TE will do more for the sack total than a new O lineman the only thing shelton can do is either Push or overtake wand for the left tackle job unless there is an O line shuffle taking place.maybe they moved wand to guard so that he can watch pitts and see what pitts does that Wand doesn't

I Personally think wand is afraid to grab a little jersey. I think he needs to learn the lil things like not jumping so far back from the rest of the line on passing plays. he put himself on an island with Freeney a lot. Who knows though maybe he just doesnt react to the speed rush fast enough and gets blown backwards.

Wolf
05-25-2005, 06:21 AM
nobody knows the 85 oilers o-line?

add Dean Steinkuhler to the list

the other 2 escape me at the moment

Texan in Japan
05-25-2005, 08:45 AM
I believe David Williams was one OT.

Vinny
05-25-2005, 09:03 AM
nobody knows the 85 oilers o-line?
Mike Munchak G
Harvey Salem T
Don Maggs T
Jim Romano C
Bruce Matthews G
Jamie Williams TE

I could be mistaken but I think Dean Steinkuhler was hurt this year.

El Tejano
05-25-2005, 09:08 AM
I could've swore Bruce Davis was still the LT and Don Maggs was not with the Oilers at that time yet. I think he joined sometime in the 90s.

Vinny
05-25-2005, 09:11 AM
I'm not sure about the timing anymore either. Maggs was picked by us in 84 though. What year did the USFL fold? 84?

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/rosters.nsf/Annual/1985-hou

http://www.drafthistory.com/supplemental/supplemental-1984.html

Htown34s
05-25-2005, 10:09 AM
Mike Munchak G
Harvey Salem T
Don Maggs T
Jim Romano C
Bruce Matthews G
Jamie Williams TE

I could be mistaken but I think Dean Steinkuhler was hurt this year.

Ahhh, memory lane...I don't even remember Romano or Maggs being with the team, but besides Munch & Matthews, who could forget Spider Man?

royce1054
05-25-2005, 11:14 AM
i remember maggs its salem and romano i dont remember

Vinny
05-25-2005, 11:19 AM
i remember maggs its salem and romano i dont remember
Harvey was traded to the Lions for a 2nd round pick (memory cloudy on the pick). He went on to a few Pro Bowls I think.

royce1054
05-25-2005, 11:22 AM
i remember when we had the run and shoot its seems like all we drafted in the 1st round was 1 LB, a bunch of OL and DL in the 1st round. Isnt that pretty accurate. I remember we had a few DB's in the 2nd and 3rd a few WR in the 2nd and 3rd but it seems to have been mostly OL right.

Texans Pride
05-25-2005, 06:52 PM
Here is comes!

Shelton, who started 77 of 82 games in six seasons with Arizona, was scheduled to begin a two-day visit with the Texans today after the Cardinals released him last week.


You can find the entire story here:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3198504

DRIFTAWAY
05-25-2005, 06:54 PM
hmm 2-day.. Are we the only team that's visit will take place for 2 days.

wags
05-25-2005, 07:22 PM
Here is comes!

Shelton, who started 77 of 82 games in six seasons with Arizona, was scheduled to begin a two-day visit with the Texans today after the Cardinals released him last week.


You can find the entire story here:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3198504

I predict we sign him by the end of week. :highfive:

"I can't tell you why he's available right now. But when there's a guy that has athletic ability, we're going to look into it."

DRIFTAWAY
05-25-2005, 07:30 PM
I really hope he does come here and could list valuable reasons:

1. Out of all teams interested, he has most chances of starting here at Houston.

2. He know's we need him right now with our wos and might take this on as him being a "savior"

3. He is very young and might enjoy it down here with a young team, with solid standout youngsters.

4. We have the cap space to sign him to a good deal.

texan279
05-25-2005, 07:42 PM
Texans | Shelton in Town for a Visit - from www.KFFL.com
Wed, 25 May 2005 17:28:13 -0700

Updating earlier stories, the Associated Press reports free agent OT L.J. Shelton (Cardinals) began a two-day visit with the Houston Texans Wednesday, May 25. If signed, Shelton probably will replace OT Seth Wand as the starting left tackle. "We'll go through the process of evaluating him and figuring out how he might fit in," Texans head coach Dom Capers said. "I can't tell you why he's available right now. But when there's a guy that has athletic ability, we're going to look into it."

texan279
05-25-2005, 07:45 PM
really hope he does come here and could list valuable reasons:

1. Out of all teams interested, he has most chances of starting here at Houston.

2. He know's we need him right now with our wos and might take this on as him being a "savior"

3. He is very young and might enjoy it down here with a young team, with solid standout youngsters.

4. We have the cap space to sign him to a good deal.

I agree with these, but these are all also reasons we could end up overpaying for him if we sign him. The one good thing about this situation is I read somewhere that he wants to start at LT, and I think the Bears want to put him in at G, the Jags are looking at him for depth, and I think the Chiefs are looking at him for depth or a G, can't remember. So if what he really wants is to start at LT, Houston is the place for Shelton!

TigerBait
05-25-2005, 08:52 PM
I predict we sign him by the end of week. :highfive:
And i predict, if that is so, we get critisized by the Cardinals fans just as the Raiders fans did when we got Buchannon.

wags
05-25-2005, 08:58 PM
And i predict, if that is so, we get critisized by the Cardinals fans just as the Raiders fans did when we got Buchannon.

The Cardinals have fans? :confused:

Hervoyel
05-25-2005, 11:09 PM
The Cardinals have fans? :confused:

All three of them will be here trolling like mad so get ready. It's going to be INTENSE!

BradK10
05-26-2005, 03:16 AM
livin out here in the phoenix area, anytime i meet someone who says they have cards season tix, i ask "oh, so you're one of the 40?"

jacquescas
05-26-2005, 03:56 AM
i like the move, it doesn't necesarily cut Wand out, i think Pitts makes a better guard than tackle, and keeping him at guard will decrease his asking price when his contract comes up. Wand will give us depth and Shelton at 29 can help push him.

El Tejano
05-26-2005, 10:38 AM
I think the fact we are the only team he is meeting with for two days is huge. Just wait til he gets a load of our facilities and youth and he will be here.

Nawzer
05-26-2005, 10:40 AM
I really hope we can sign Shelton and the fact that he's here for a 2 day visit is a good indication. But I won't get my hopes up too high. I personally think the Cardinals are going to be one of the surprise teams in the NFL. I think Dennis Green is taking them towards the right direction.

gwallaia
05-26-2005, 10:42 AM
I think the fact we are the only team he is meeting with for two days is huge. Just wait til he gets a load of our facilities and youth and he will be here.

Who ever gives him the most money is where he will end up. If Capers likes him, hopefully the Texans can work out a deal.

TEXANS84
05-26-2005, 02:13 PM
CARDINALS NOTEBOOK

By DARREN URBAN
TRIBUNE
-
-
CONTACT WRITER: (480) 898-6495 or durban@aztrib.com

****Cardinals coach Dennis Green stressed Thursday there was a simple reason why he decided to cut offensive lineman L.J. Shelton.
Shelton simply didnít produce.
"I deal in results," Green said. "I donít think many people around here are used to dealing in results.
"I came here in 2004, I saw in four (home) games, there were less than 25,000 people in the stands. Somebody has to be accountable for that. People are not going to see you play unless you accept the responsibility of putting a winning team on the field. Thatís what I always do."
Green reiterated he thought the line was the teamís most underachieving unit when he took over last year. After cutting both Shelton and tackle Anthony Clement over the past couple of weeks, four of the teamís five offensive line starters from 2003 are no longer with the team.
The lone player remaining, tackle Leonard Davis, also got a subtle admonition from Green.
We hope Leonard Davis accepts the challenge that he be as good as (Pro Bowlers) Walter Jones and Orlando Pace because he had that kind of promise coming out, he was drafted in that kind of position and he has that kind of potential," Green said.
Green deflected questions asking him to assess his line depth. But he left no doubt that changes are possible.
"We started it last year and we are into it again this year and we will probably continue it next year," Green said. "Itís nothing personal against Shelton or Clement or anybody else. Itís just part of what you have to do if you are going to be a winning football team."

Hervoyel
05-26-2005, 02:18 PM
CARDINALS NOTEBOOK

By DARREN URBAN
TRIBUNE
-
-
CONTACT WRITER: (480) 898-6495 or durban@aztrib.com

****Cardinals coach Dennis Green stressed Thursday there was a simple reason why he decided to cut offensive lineman L.J. Shelton.
Shelton simply didnít produce.
"I deal in results," Green said. "I donít think many people around here are used to dealing in results.
"I came here in 2004, I saw in four (home) games, there were less than 25,000 people in the stands. Somebody has to be accountable for that. People are not going to see you play unless you accept the responsibility of putting a winning team on the field. Thatís what I always do."
Green reiterated he thought the line was the teamís most underachieving unit when he took over last year. After cutting both Shelton and tackle Anthony Clement over the past couple of weeks, four of the teamís five offensive line starters from 2003 are no longer with the team.
The lone player remaining, tackle Leonard Davis, also got a subtle admonition from Green.
We hope Leonard Davis accepts the challenge that he be as good as (Pro Bowlers) Walter Jones and Orlando Pace because he had that kind of promise coming out, he was drafted in that kind of position and he has that kind of potential," Green said.
Green deflected questions asking him to assess his line depth. But he left no doubt that changes are possible.
"We started it last year and we are into it again this year and we will probably continue it next year," Green said. "Itís nothing personal against Shelton or Clement or anybody else. Itís just part of what you have to do if you are going to be a winning football team."

Well, now that sounds promising doesn't it? I'm sure this guy will do a very good job backing up Seth Wand if it comes to that. Someone is probably going to pony up "stupid money" for him though because he's a LT and so many people need one. I hope it's not the Texans. I hope if the Texans sign him (which I am not opposed to by the way because I see him as an improvement over Spears) I hope they do it for a reasonable "quality depth" type of contract.

El Tejano
05-26-2005, 02:30 PM
Competing for a spot and having it handed to you are two different things. That said, I hope we don't sign him and hand him the starting spot. I would like to see him take it from Wand.

throwANDREtheBALL
05-26-2005, 02:41 PM
Wand can't fight for a LT spot cuz he doesn't have the footwork needed.

He can have a fair fight for a Guard or RT spot, but, he just isn't talented enough as far as the speed and mobility needed to play LT.

If they bring in a legit LT like Shelton, then Wand won't be a LT.

However if they continue to toil with Guards and Right Tackles fighting each other for the Left Tackle spot then Wand does have a chance.

Moving Pitts and Wand around isn't going to solve their problems, just like a new blocking scheme and quicker throws........its like putting play-dough on a deep cut, it might stop the bleeding, but, eventually the whole apendage will be infected.

I have no idea what that play-doh thing means, but, to me it does seem like they are going with the play-doh solution for our TEXANS O-line.

infantrycak
05-26-2005, 03:08 PM
Wand can't fight for a LT spot cuz he doesn't have the footwork needed.

He can have a fair fight for a Guard or RT spot, but, he just isn't talented enough as far as the speed and mobility needed to play LT.

I don't think that review of Wand is accurate at all. His feet and stance have consistantly been lauded. It is his technique and formerly his strength which have been questioned.

For example:

Positives: Very light on his feet for a player his size Ö Has the quickness needed to instantly get into the defender coming off the snap Ö Capable of moving laterally on pulls and traps Ö Has very good balance, keeping his feet on the move Ö Solid inline blocker with improved strength and hand usage Ö Very alert picking up stunts and twists Ö Has the frame to add more bulk with no loss in speed Ö Shows good kick slide and shuffle adjusting to the edge rush in pass protection Ö Bends his knees properly and fires off the ball with aggression.

Negatives: Needs to improve his playing strength, as he does not show the power needed to keep defenders from running over him and pushing him back into the pocket Ö Gets his hands up quickly, but is more of a finesse blocker than a mauler (defenders use rip moves to get into his chest to drive him back) Ö Needs to show a sense of urgency blocking for the ground game, as he is not always quick to locate and stalk the linebacker at the second level Ö Looks awkward coming out of his stance, as he does not keep a wide leg base and tends to lean and reach too much Ö Lack of arm-extension technique will see him slip off a few blocks rather than sustain Ö Does not show good hand punch in pass protection, which lets the defensive end escape and redirect inside Ö Has a documented learning disability that could pose problems digesting a complicated play book.

Link (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/wand_seth)

Porky
05-26-2005, 03:11 PM
Well, now that sounds promising doesn't it? I'm sure this guy will do a very good job backing up Seth Wand if it comes to that. Someone is probably going to pony up "stupid money" for him though because he's a LT and so many people need one. I hope it's not the Texans. I hope if the Texans sign him (which I am not opposed to by the way because I see him as an improvement over Spears) I hope they do it for a reasonable "quality depth" type of contract.

Did you really think Green is going to tell the media he is great? I'm not saying he is the second coming off Bruce Matthews, but it's unlikely a coach is going to pump up a guy he just cut. Wouldn't exactly make him look like a brainicac. If he signs, he signs as a starter, unless Wand can beat him out. Unlikely imo. I really don't think it's even that close. Shelton starts at LT if he signs imho.

texan279
05-26-2005, 03:28 PM
CARDINALS NOTEBOOK

By DARREN URBAN
TRIBUNE
-
-
CONTACT WRITER: (480) 898-6495 or durban@aztrib.com

****Cardinals coach Dennis Green stressed Thursday there was a simple reason why he decided to cut offensive lineman L.J. Shelton.
Shelton simply didnít produce.
"I deal in results," Green said. "I donít think many people around here are used to dealing in results."I came here in 2004, I saw in four (home) games, there were less than 25,000 people in the stands. Somebody has to be accountable for that. People are not going to see you play unless you accept the responsibility of putting a winning team on the field. Thatís what I always do."
Green reiterated he thought the line was the teamís most underachieving unit when he took over last year. After cutting both Shelton and tackle Anthony Clement over the past couple of weeks, four of the teamís five offensive line starters from 2003 are no longer with the team.
The lone player remaining, tackle Leonard Davis, also got a subtle admonition from Green.
We hope Leonard Davis accepts the challenge that he be as good as (Pro Bowlers) Walter Jones and Orlando Pace because he had that kind of promise coming out, he was drafted in that kind of position and he has that kind of potential," Green said.
Green deflected questions asking him to assess his line depth. But he left no doubt that changes are possible.
"We started it last year and we are into it again this year and we will probably continue it next year," Green said. "Itís nothing personal against Shelton or Clement or anybody else. Itís just part of what you have to do if you are going to be a winning football team."

If he gets rid of everyone that does not produce, half of that team needs to be cut, they have won 15 games in 3 seasons...

nunusguy
05-26-2005, 03:39 PM
I don't think that review of Wand is accurate at all. His feet and stance have consistantly been lauded. It is his technique and formerly his strength which have been questioned.

Exactly. The guy is very athletic and has excellect footwork, but was initially
nearly anemic for such a big man. I remember from the combine, his 225 lb reps # was downright embarrising - some DBs had more reps than him! And regarding his technique, he came from a podunck college in the middle of nowhere that played other podunk colleges, so he had minimul training on technique and even if he did, had no top talent or real matchups to play against to improve his skills. He went from that experience to playing man-o-mano against the best pass rusher in the league twice last year. This guy has the classic profile of a late bloomer, its just that this team has other
and higher priorities than waiting for his maturation process to be completed.

Hervoyel
05-26-2005, 03:43 PM
Did you really think Green is going to tell the media he is great? I'm not saying he is the second coming off Bruce Matthews, but it's unlikely a coach is going to pump up a guy he just cut. Wouldn't exactly make him look like a brainicac. If he signs, he signs as a starter, unless Wand can beat him out. Unlikely imo. I really don't think it's even that close. Shelton starts at LT if he signs imho.

Wish the season was here so we could see what's going to happen. If he signs we've got to remember this when a starter is named.

nunusguy
05-26-2005, 03:49 PM
I personally think the Cardinals are going to be one of the surprise teams in the NFL. I think Dennis Green is taking them towards the right direction.
Neither would I be to quick to pile on another franchise. Remember how everyone was just saying we could mail in our opener here in Reliant last year against the Chargers ? I seemed to recall them having a descent season, actually quite a bit better than ours. We have a ways to go befrore we've earned our bones. And I also think Green is a damn good coach which has got to help there chances.

mj.
05-26-2005, 03:53 PM
ESPN info of Shelton's visit...

"This is a great organization. I like what I see so far," Shelton said during a tour of the Texans' facilities. "I have to weigh all my options. I'm kind of waiting to see what happens."

"I'm not expecting to come in and start," Shelton said. "But I'm looking for an opportunity to compete."

He went through an almost hour-long workout Thursday morning, then spent the rest of the day visiting with team officials and doctors.

"I've never seen anything like this," Shelton said of the team's facilities. "This is a first-class organization."


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2069291&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233

gsbtxn
05-26-2005, 03:54 PM
Here's an espn.com article about Shelton's visit...No place like...Houston? Texans Impress Shelton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2069291)

throwANDREtheBALL
05-26-2005, 04:06 PM
Its a fact that Shelton has athletic ability, plus his technique is going to be a decade ahead of Wand, since he's been a starter at left tackle a lot longer.

The fact is Shelton is a better LT than Wand.........if you want to dispute that, go ahead....bring in some more of your "pre-draft analysis" on WAND to tell me I'm wrong, unfortunately that stuff was written a couple of years ago guys. Wand was was drafted in 2003, so you need to catch up to the times. He's hit the weight room since then, give me a break.

We're talking about who's better in 2005, not who's better in 2003.

Porky
05-26-2005, 04:27 PM
Wish the season was here so we could see what's going to happen. If he signs we've got to remember this when a starter is named.

Well, one of us will be eating crow if he signs. I prefer mine seasoned with go to hell, and lightly grilled. You might want to baste it with a healthy dousing of you don't have a clue. A side order of shut the **** up is always tasty as well. :)

geofb
05-26-2005, 04:38 PM
Did you really think Green is going to tell the media he is great? I'm not saying he is the second coming off Bruce Matthews, but it's unlikely a coach is going to pump up a guy he just cut. Wouldn't exactly make him look like a brainicac. If he signs, he signs as a starter, unless Wand can beat him out. Unlikely imo. I really don't think it's even that close. Shelton starts at LT if he signs imho.

If we do sign someone (anyone) who was cut by another team and that person starts for us (at LT no less!!) then that pretty much shoots down those on this board who have been mouthing the Texans' party line like parrots and saying that our O-line is just fine and dandy now that we have another year together, have new blocking schemes, and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Lucky
05-26-2005, 04:57 PM
From Seth Wand's draft profile on NFL.com (infantrycak provided link):

Ö Very alert picking up stunts and twists Ö

That's picking up stunts & twists at the NCAA Division II level. Because at the NFL level, Wand has been terrible on stunts & twists. In his rookie year, Wand "blocked" Greg Randall on a stunt & the Colts' Raheem Brock took out Carr for 2 weeks. Last year against the Jets, Eric Barton went untouched by Wand on a stunt, and nearly decapitated Carr. I guess things happen a little quicker in the NFL than they do in Division II.

As far as the physical metrics go, Wand seems to have what it takes. He's got the size, the arm length, the foot speed...Wand has the tools. But he is so far behind in instincts & technique that Seth seems to play robotic. He's thinking & not reacting. That's not Wand's fault, he's just way behind the curve. Some think it's only a matter of time before Wand begins to adjust and become a NFL LT. Some think he just doesn't have what it takes to become a blindside blocker. Some think the emperor's clothes are marvelous, simply marvelous. What matters is what the Texans think. And at LT, it looks like they're going in a direction away from Wand.

ArlingtonTexan
05-26-2005, 05:18 PM
If we do sign someone (anyone) who was cut by another team and that person starts for us (at LT no less!!) then that pretty much shoots down those on this board who have been mouthing the Texans' party line like parrots and saying that our O-line is just fine and dandy now that we have another year together, have new blocking schemes, and blah, blah, blah, blah.

I am one of those guys who said another year together instead of signing anyone who had LT on his resume....Exactly, what quality, hold it, even solid LT have the Texans ignored. My comments have been largely based on not bringing in a guy to bring in a body who is only better than Wand because his name is not Wand.

Shelton is a solid player, not great, not special, solid. Would he upgrade Seth Wand? Probably. Does his potential signing make Houston a quality NFL O-line without improvement in protection schemes and the play of the other members? No.

The Preacher
05-26-2005, 05:30 PM
How much longer before the season gets here? :brickwall

texan279
05-26-2005, 05:31 PM
How much longer before the season gets here?

I been saying that for months now lol... :highfive:

HardKnockTexan
05-26-2005, 05:35 PM
Texans | Shelton Enjoys Visit - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 26 May 2005 14:43:25 -0700

The Associated Press reports free agent OT L.J. Shelton (Cardinals) wrapped up a two-visit with the Houston Texans on Thursday, May 26. "This is a great organization," Shelton said during a tour of the Texans' facilities. "I like what I see so far. I have to weigh all my options. I'm kind of waiting to see what happens." Shelton went through an almost hour-long workout Thursday morning, then spent the rest of the day visiting with team officials and doctors.

Porky
05-26-2005, 05:49 PM
I am one of those guys who said another year together instead of signing anyone who had LT on his resume....Exactly, what quality, hold it, even solid LT have the Texans ignored. My comments have been largely based on not bringing in a guy to bring in a body who is only better than Wand because his name is not Wand.

Shelton is a solid player, not great, not special, solid. Would he upgrade Seth Wand? Probably. Does his potential signing make Houston a quality NFL O-line without improvement in protection schemes and the play of the other members? No.

That is exactly how I feel about it. Couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't.

Wolfiegrrl
05-26-2005, 07:03 PM
I don't think our O-Line is going to be "fixed" by throwing in someone that the Card's let go. I'm not completely happy with swapping up Pitts and Wand either. However, we are, for all intents and purposes, stuck between a rock and a hard place. The 2005 draft was not very strong or deep in the LT position. Should we have wasted a pick on someone that might end up like Shelton? Or do we wait, hope that the guys we have can work something out between them for one more year? I say patience is our best virtue here. Yes, we need to protect David. We are working on ways to do this with what we have. I have faith in our team. Things are coming together.

BradK10
05-26-2005, 07:11 PM
The guy is talented, he was just stuck on a dead on team. Some people were saying stuff about T-Mac like "Why does Orlando want to trade him..." and what not. Well, you saw how moving to a good franchise affected him. I'll say the same for Shelton. Playing for a first class organization with actual fans can do wonders for a players morale.

Sco-tai
05-26-2005, 08:26 PM
Is Boselli still available?



LOL

:ouch:

We ought to start an "all-useless" Texan team.

Boselli, Joppru....whom else?

(don't get me wrong...I'm a HUGE Texan fan...just trying make light of a frustrating situation)

awtysst
05-26-2005, 08:38 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2069291

Wolfiegrrl
05-26-2005, 08:42 PM
Honestly, I don't think this guy will sign with us. If he thought he could get the deal he wanted and be a starter, he would never have left town. JHMO

ojthecat
05-26-2005, 08:47 PM
Honestly, I don't think this guy will sign with us. If he thought he could get the deal he wanted and be a starter, he would never have left town. JHMO

There is no way that his agent would let him do that. They will have him go on all of his site visits and then attempt to play each city against one another. It is a business and that is the game.

jr0ck
05-26-2005, 08:59 PM
There is no way that his agent would let him do that. They will have him go on all of his site visits and then attempt to play each city against one another. It is a business and that is the game.

correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure greenwood had other visit's planned but after visiting us first he thought our deal was good enough to cancel all other stops on his tour and sign. not that this means shelton isn't going to be a texan because he didn't sign immediately, just that the players seem to have full discretion when deciding when and where they shop themselves around.

ojthecat
05-26-2005, 10:06 PM
correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm pretty sure greenwood had other visit's planned but after visiting us first he thought our deal was good enough to cancel all other stops on his tour and sign. not that this means shelton isn't going to be a texan because he didn't sign immediately, just that the players seem to have full discretion when deciding when and where they shop themselves around.

You are correct but I would like to add that the Texans gave Greenwood a 7 million dollar signing bonus. If we were to offer Shelton that kind of money I think he might sign on the spot however I doubt that we will offering that kind of up front money.

dalemurphy
05-26-2005, 10:17 PM
Let's look ahead a year and assume Weigert is cut:

Shelton, Wand, mckinney, Pitts, Wade - in some combination looks like a very promising OL. There have been worse problems than having 4 guys on your OL that can play Tackle!

ojthecat
05-26-2005, 11:41 PM
But if you believe the Texans (which I don't) then you will upset the valuable chemistry by adding Shelton to the mix. The very fragile OL needs time to develop together as a unit and gel. Just watch, they'll continue to peddle that BS until they sign someone and that will then be the last time you hear any reference to the importance of having the unit all play together for a long period of time, etc.


This is not a bad thing.