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View Full Version : Pitts back to LT, Wand to LG?


Lucky
05-23-2005, 05:08 PM
Appears the Texans are serious about a role reversal between Chester Pitts & Seth Wand. Based on this houstontexans.com interview today (http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/2003/texans/demand/pitts052305.rm&proto=rtsp) and another interview with Pitts on 610 AM, Chester has played at LT the past three days of the coaching sessions.

Is it a permanent switch? Can Pitts move back to LT seamlessly? Does Wand have the strength to play guard? A lot of interesting questions. I actually suggested this lineup on the left side around this time last year & was shouted down on this board. Probably rightly so. I don't know, this move reeks of desperation. Hard to believe this was the plan going into the offseason.

donbmt
05-23-2005, 05:11 PM
"False start, number 69, offense, five yards" How many times are we going to hear that next year?

TopTexanFan16
05-23-2005, 05:11 PM
aw man is it me or did pittssuck really bad at LT?.......this isnt lookin to good for the line if our best move this offseason was moving pitts back to LT.

Vinny
05-23-2005, 05:14 PM
Pitts had a fine year at LT his second season. He is easily our best lineman.

Porky
05-23-2005, 05:17 PM
After I read the article, I may have a different take, but my initial take is much ado about nothing. If you remember, last spring, Wong was taking a lot of reps inside, but he played OLB all season long. I think at this point they are wanting guys to take reps at different spots so they can see if a move is feasible, and for cross training in case of injuries, etc. Now, if this is still happening by training camp, then we have something imo.

Porky
05-23-2005, 05:23 PM
Pitts had a fine year at LT his second season. He is easily our best lineman.

I'm not sure whether to congraluate Pitts, or condem our other four. I'll say that, when healthy, Wade is our best O-lineman imo, but a case can definately be made for Pitts. You say potato, I say potato. Wait, that didn't translate too well. :dangit:

Vinny
05-23-2005, 05:31 PM
Pitts is much quicker, has ten times better feet, is a better drive blocker and is is a better second level blocker. other than that...Wade is better

Fiddy
05-23-2005, 05:33 PM
Pitts had a fine year at LT his second season. He is easily our best lineman.He was. I was upset when they moved him to LG cause he had just learned the LT position.

Lucky
05-23-2005, 05:34 PM
Pitts is much quicker, has ten times better feet, is a better drive blocker and is is a better second level blocker. other than that...Wade is better
And he's quicker, too. :)

Wade has longer arms & is more disciplined. If both were on the FA market, Wade would get the bigger offer.

Vinny
05-23-2005, 05:48 PM
And he's quicker, too. :)

Wade has longer arms & is more disciplined. If both were on the FA market, Wade would get the bigger offer.
I am not sure about that. I would sign Pitts for equal money if I was presented with both players. Pitts still has more upside and is the better blocker right now.

SESupergenius
05-23-2005, 05:51 PM
If Pitts is our best linemen then we are in a world of hurt.

Vinny
05-23-2005, 05:52 PM
I watch a ton of taped games. He is better than the fans make him out to be.

Texas_Thrill
05-23-2005, 05:59 PM
I have ONE thing to say....


PLEASSSSSSSSSSE SIGN SHELTON!!!!

dalemurphy
05-23-2005, 06:00 PM
Pitts is much quicker, has ten times better feet, is a better drive blocker and is is a better second level blocker. other than that...Wade is better


I don't see it. In particular, Pitts sometimes seems very slow to react. He seemed to get beaten a lot on interior speed moves last year. I do agree, however, that he is strong and has the ability to dominate... I just don't see it happen often.

SESupergenius
05-23-2005, 06:36 PM
There was a reason Pitts was moved to LG last year. He just didn't cut it at LT. Wand can't cut it versus the Colts twice a year so really, it's the lesser of two evils. Saying that Pitts is the best on our line is like saying Rex Grossman is the best QB on the Bears when they have C. Hutchinson, J. George, J. Quinn, and C. Krenzel. Good Luck on picking that one. Pitts is as dumb as rock. He's just not getting it.

nunusguy
05-23-2005, 08:16 PM
No, no we don't want to hear this. Not now. Into the 4th season, with
an expressed goal of being playoff bound. And we're still playing musical
chairs with the OL. Playing guard is a novel experience
for Wand ? DC is going this is deja vu all over again. An 11th hour experiment
like this is not reassuring. This is BS.

TexansJunkE
05-23-2005, 08:26 PM
It really frustrates me when we have a good quality QB and a OL that lacks production. I hate to bash the coach's, but you have to protect your QB. That's no secret. I know the coach's and staff know alot more about football than I do, I'm not denying that, but when are they gonna do something about it. Does Carr have to be injured for them to do anything? If not in the free agent market why not the draft. Don't get me wrong, I like the trade for T-buc, but was it really a need right now when we could of added depth if not starters to our o-line? I know you don't start rookies to your OL unless you wan't your QB hurt, but it's not like the vet's are showing alot now. I could be totally wrong, I'm sure you all have wondered this too.

Vinny
05-23-2005, 08:36 PM
but when are they gonna do something about it. They have changed the line every year but this year. Looks to me like they have been "doing something about it" since day 1. We are coming off a 7-9 season looking for a serious playoff run. Most of you guys act like we have already blown this next season without even playing.

Vinny
05-23-2005, 08:37 PM
Pitts is as dumb as rock. He's just not getting it.Pitts is one of our smartest players. He may be alot of things to you guys who just want to bash linemen all offseason but dumb he isn't.

wags
05-23-2005, 08:57 PM
I know you don't start rookies to your OL unless you wan't your QB hurt,

The Chargers did fine starting two rookies on their O-line (3rd and 7th rounder). Plenty of other rookies got significant playing time also.

infantrycak
05-23-2005, 09:00 PM
Pitts gave me the impression in the 610 am interview (a) that he would like to play LT better and (b) the Texans had Wand playing LG in order to get him to engage and fight better with his hands. Pitts said Wand was showing definite improvement with that in the last 3 days.

TexansJunkE
05-23-2005, 09:10 PM
I don't recall saying that the season has already been blown. I think we have an outside shot of getting to the playoffs. We keep making changes to our defense, which I think is good. We improved our D with a new LB,CB, and drafting a much needed DL. Our Offense by resigning Bradford, drafting a RB, a WR/KR. Then we go to our o-line in the 5th with a center. If a 3 rounder has a 30% chance of making a team (CC) what does a 5th rounder have? I think Capers is a good coach, but I think he needs to pay attention to our O-line alot more. We will not make the playoffs with the line playing the way they have been. I really don't think chemistry is going to help this bunch. What have they been doing eating , sleeping , and spending every last minute together since the end of last season? Capers is not the open the O playbook kind of guy. He is a grind it out, run the ball down your throat type of coach. does not fit our o-line. If you remember right it had to take the browns to make a long pass on Glenn to get Capers or Palmer to throw the ball downfield.

nunusguy
05-23-2005, 09:19 PM
Pitts gave me the impression in the 610 am interview (a) that he would like to play LT better
In the little flick that's in the origional post of this subject, Pitts stated he'd prefer to play tackle. No wonder, the position is more varied
in responsibilities and more challenging than guard and therefor probably more interesting for the palyer. And it pays more - tackles, especially LTs, make more, often much more than guards. So I'm sure Chester would prefer to accrue experience and knowledge at tackle instead of guard. And by the way, I don't remember who said Pitts was dumb, but he comes off as animated, personable and articulate in the realplayer flick.

Vinny
05-23-2005, 09:26 PM
In the little flick that's in the origional post of this subject, Pitts stated he'd prefer to play tackle. No wonder, the position is more varied
in responsibilities and more challenging than guard and therefor probably more interesting for the palyer. And it pays more - tackles, especially LTs, make more, often much more than guards. So I'm sure Chester would prefer to accrue experience and knowledge at tackle instead of guard. And by the way, I don't remember who said Pitts was dumb, but he comes off as animated, personable and articulate in the realplayer flick.In his 610am interview he said his game isn't so much a 'pounder' (his words), and he thinks he is best suited to use his superior agility against the speedier guys on the edge, but he said he just lines up where they tell him to and will play anywhere he is asked.

You are correct. Pitts is very bright, I think he scored higher on his wonderlic than Carr did....I am going by memory and need to look that up though.

done88
05-23-2005, 09:56 PM
for once I have to agree with Vinny. Pitts did an excellent job at LT his second year. I thought the only reason he moved was because they were unsure Wand could play guard.

Tulip
05-23-2005, 10:02 PM
Pitts had a fine year at LT his second season. He is easily our best lineman.

He was. I was upset when they moved him to LG cause he had just learned the LT position.

I agree. I was so frustrated because I knew it would be a huge setback. And it was.

infantrycak
05-23-2005, 10:18 PM
I agree. I was so frustrated because I knew it would be a huge setback. And it was.

Yes and no. In 2003 they averaged 3.9 ypc to the left and 3.8 ypc to the middle. In 2004 they averaged 4.3 ypc to the left and 4.6 ypc to the middle. That is a huge improvement. Given that the run blocking sucked for the 1st half of the season, the run blocking of the left side of the line was becoming very good in the 2nd half of last season.

And I'll agree with nunu--Pitts comes off in his interviews as smarter than the average OLmen.

F-minus67
05-23-2005, 10:24 PM
I think that Wand deserves another shot at LT I mean in the last 2 or 3 games he didn't give up a sack. Sure Pitts improved in his second year and the only thing Wand can do is improve.

TexanFanInCC
05-23-2005, 10:29 PM
Pitts had a fine year at LT his second season. He is easily our best lineman.

i agree! he was probably our best lineman last yr and certainly our most improved lineman. i like him at guard however. i think if we get LJ shelton, then all of our answers are solved.

TommyS
05-23-2005, 10:37 PM
i think if we get LJ shelton, then all of our answers are solved.

can i be a smartass? all our answers are solved? or all our questions?

if we passed on barron over concerns about his desire for the game, what makes everyone so sure that we won't pass on shelton for the same reasons? isnt that what got him in denny's bad books in the first place?

Lucky
05-23-2005, 10:45 PM
And I'll agree with nunu--Pitts comes off in his interviews as smarter than the average OLmen.
O-linemen rank just below QBs in wonderlich scores. They're pretty smart, for football players. I'm more concerned with Pitts' instincts than how he comes off in an interview. That's where Chester is lacking & that shouldn't be surprising with his lack of experience as a football player. Stunts have given Pitts fits for 3 years running, and having another inexperienced player next to him last year didn't help.

Let's say the Texans don't pickup Shelton & do move Pitts back to LT. Is Seth Wand capable of starting at LG in the NFL? I think it's too much to ask & it just sets up Wand for failure. And if not Wand, then who is the starter at LG? Brown, Weary, or Washington? The recent pickup Victor Riley? The rookie Hodgdon out of ASU? A FA? The more I look at this move, the less sense it makes to me.

Tulip
05-23-2005, 10:47 PM
Sorry for the OT moment but - TexanFanInCC - did you see Gene Frenkle performing with QOTSA on SNL a week ago? Awesome.

Pitts seems very intelligent. I have a silly story about him, though. My boyfriend had his lasik surgery done where most of the Texans had theirs done in 2002-2003. One of the fellows said that Pitts was too heavy for the chair, so Pitts offered to go to the bathroom to shed the extra pounds.

TommyS
05-23-2005, 10:53 PM
i'm going to quote from the cards message board here...

"......He was terrible when he was in there....He's fat and slow.....Please give us some career LJ shelton highlights where he's not standing around looking for where his blocking assignment went or not sitting on the bench, and I'll say your going to come up with a very empty highlight reel...."

they seem to think about as much of him as some people on this board think of mckinney.

btw, they seem to get pretty nasty over there on the cards boards... gives me a new found respect for the general good taste of Texans message-board posters.

Lucky
05-23-2005, 10:56 PM
btw, they seem to get pretty nasty over there on the cards boards... gives me a new found respect for the general good taste of Texans message-board posters.
They've had many more losing seasons. Hope we're never that bitter.

jr0ck
05-24-2005, 12:48 AM
if pitts is more agile and athletic and the biggest question about wand is his pass protection, then i don't see it as a problem. i think the consensus is that it's much easier to move to the interior OL positions than vice versa. after witnessing wand's, IMO, above average run blocking last year i can see how this could be move worth exploring. and another very important part of the equation is pitts eagerness to play LT, no better motivation than internal...

on a related note...HURRY UP AUGUST 14TH!!!!!!!

rockabilly
05-24-2005, 03:09 AM
I would give anything to get back to the sack count of year 2. I think Pitts would be the best bet at the LT position based on year two sack numbers. The only thing that I do not like about Pitts is his false start problem. But then I think, hey - I would rather him be to quick to block than to slow and letting David Carr get racked.

And honestly guys, we don't know how much time is actually going in to fixing the oline so we cant say that it isnt being done. You have to remember that we only know what the media tells us....and usually, unless you are diehards like us, positions like the offensive line is not a big headline.

Texan Dave
05-24-2005, 04:49 AM
And by the way, I don't remember who said Pitts was dumb, but he comes off as animated, personable and articulate in the realplayer flick.

Anyone who said that obviously hasn't a clue about the game of football, offensive linemen are usually some of the smartest people on the feild. You'd be suprised at what all is involved in playing the offensive line. If he was dumb he wouldn't have ever made it to the NFL to play offensive line.

dalemurphy
05-24-2005, 05:33 AM
I seem to remember the 2003 season, first game against the dolphins. Pitts lined up against the JT, Jason Taylor. One of the best DE in the game today. He didn't give up one sack to JT. To tell you the truth, I remember most of the sacks coming from the right side in that season. Don't remember for sure though. I say lets put Pitts at LT, and lets see if that wasn't just a fluke that season...sorry to do that to you Carr. :sbad:

In year 2, there was a concerted effort to limit sacks... The coaching staff devised a gameplan with that in mind. There were lots of 3 and 5 step drops, etc... Last year, it was back to 7 step drops and send 5 guys out on patterns. It was the philosophy of the offense that led to an increase of sacks, not the deterioration of the OL. The OL was much better as a run blocking unit in year 3 than in year 2, for instance.

nunusguy
05-24-2005, 09:34 AM
The following was a Capers quote taken else where from this website:
************************
"We’re going to continue to search and seek and find our best combinations,” Capers said. “I think that Seth knows, like we said from the beginning, that we’re going to try to put the best five guys on the field and look for the best combination of five guys. That’s kind of how Seth ended up out there last year. We felt that he was one of the best five.”
************************
I dunno Coach.....I think a teams LT should be held to a higher standard than
that, how about we want our very best, numero uno offensive lineman at LT.
Or at the bare minimum, we want our top pass blocker protecting the QBs
blind side, thats why we put Wand over there.
Maybe I'm guilty of beating a dead horse here, but I think not, because arguably the whole set of issues about the OL has been thrown open to discussion again with this fresh report of experimentation involving that group.
One of the primary issues is the order of priorities in the just completed college Draft.

beerlover
05-24-2005, 09:49 AM
One of the primary issues is the order of priorities in the just completed college Draft.

ahh draft talk :drool:

two years in a row the Texans have addressed the defensive side of the ball, Dunta Robinson now Travis Johnson (first two years Texans went offensive Carr & Johnson). so the need to add young playmakers to the defense seems like sound resoning to me. that being said the biggest question mark of the upcoming season will be the offensive line. some jobs will surely be on the line, will David Carr escape injury once again, will his confidence in his line improve or will he show even more displeasure with their protection?
back to the draft I'd bet even money that the Texans go with a stud Offensive lineman next year, depending on their current rosters effectivness they may need to draft two, round one pick & one of their round 3 picks :cool:

El Tejano
05-24-2005, 12:05 PM
Pitts is much quicker, has ten times better feet, is a better drive blocker and is is a better second level blocker. other than that...Wade is better

In our second season, Pitts faced DEFENDING SACK LEADER Jason Taylor in the first game of the season. Jason Taylor got punked by Pitts and left Taylor with a big 0 (donut) in the sack column.

Need we point out that when Pitts was the starting LT we had the fewest sacks in our young franchise history.

Hervoyel
05-24-2005, 12:48 PM
Need we point out that when Pitts was the starting LT we had the fewest sacks in our young franchise history.

And the year before when he was also starting we had the most sacks in NFL history. Statistics mean almost nothing.

I want to see Wand at LT in year two. I think he'll be much improved but I'll add that I don't mind him having to beat some other guys to get that second year. If he can't beat them then I'm wrong about him and he doesn't deserve to be starting. Bring in Riley and bring back Pitts. Add Shelton too if the Texans think it's necessary. I'm pulling for Wand to step up and stay in the starting lineup.

El Tejano
05-24-2005, 01:05 PM
And the year before when he was also starting we had the most sacks in NFL history. Statistics mean almost nothing.


Yeah but that was his rookie season. Yes we could give Wand a chance in his second season but wouldn't you want someone who already has 1 more year experience.

cadahnic
05-24-2005, 01:11 PM
Wand will not beat Shelton if we add him. Bottom line Shelton is on the crest of being a top lineman in the league and he is still very young. If he gets his attitude together he could be the anchor we need on the line. I would love to see our line read.

Shelton, Pitts, McKinney, Wand, Wade. That gives us one hell of a pass protection and some serious drive blockers to open holes for our running game.

nunusguy
05-24-2005, 01:13 PM
I'm pulling for Wand to step up and stay in the starting lineup.
Hey Herv, if Wand should lose his starting job at LT, what's your view of his
chances of remaining a starter by playing guard. I think it takes more strength
if not finess and athleticism to play inside, especially when comparing LT to the guard positions ? I don't think he's every played guard, either here in Houston or in college ?

mike230765
05-24-2005, 01:20 PM
So are the Texans Gonna go after L.J. Shelton?

infantrycak
05-24-2005, 01:42 PM
Bottom line Shelton is on the crest of being a top lineman in the league and he is still very young.

Bottom line, Shelton is far closer to being called a 1st round draft pick bust than he is to being a top lineman in the league.

If he'll sign cheap, sure bring him in for competition, but he is by no means a sure fire starter.

Blake
05-24-2005, 01:45 PM
Jonas Jennings got a huge amount from the 49ers this offseason. I know Shelton wont sign for cheap. Look for another Todd Wade contract for him from someone.

SESupergenius
05-24-2005, 01:56 PM
Pitts is so rock solid that we need to bring in Shelton. Come on people what the heck are you being fed? Pitts is mediocre at best. He lapses in his assignments, doesn't have the nastiness to be effective and doesn't intimidate ANYONE!!!!. He is Foreman on the Offensive line.

beerlover
05-24-2005, 02:24 PM
Pitts is average as a guard, but average also as a tackle. he provides a good role player & depth to the roster but is not starter material period. Wand in his first year proved to be adequate he started @ LT when Robert Gallery played guard and some at RT. other than a few isolated incidents which can happen to anyone (Freeney) he moved his man way outside to the left, where he lost containment was when Carr moved away from the pocket usually to the right side so his man would be chasing from the back-side.

Pitts also had McKinney on his right, which it was just not possible for him to help out, all you could expect of him was to take on the Nose Tackle and neutralize him, when he did help out on occassion it opened up the right interior side where Weigert was usually waging a losing battle himself. this is the reason the Texans went to a zone blocking scheme to help one another out without being left exposed individually.

We need some good young guard prospects in next years draft. the need to address the CB & DT positions will prove warrented, we just have to patient and let Casserly address their needs as they can, just hope they don't give up on Wand and keep Pitts inside :ouch:

Hervoyel
05-24-2005, 02:30 PM
Wand will not beat Shelton if we add him. Bottom line Shelton is on the crest of being a top lineman in the league and he is still very young.


Yes, of course he won't beat Shelton because you see teams kicking promising young linemen that they've spent 1st round draft choices on to the curb all the time right? Young guys on the crest of being top linemen (starting left tackles no less) are frequently let go for no compensation by teams who need them.