PDA

View Full Version : Trading RB Ben Tate for a receiver?


TexanCR
05-19-2012, 10:10 PM
...Wes Welker? Lets face it, Tate will want starters money at the end of next year, while Wes welker is going to be on the doghouse with the Pats GM and owner due to everything that has happen this offseason.

Do you think it will be possible this trade? Should we have to give a draft pick to sweaten the deal? Can we work around the cap issue to pay him for 3 season? He has prove to be pretty durable except for that play in the good old Reliant Stadium :)

I think both sides will get the best of this deal. The pats do not have such a talented guy in the backfield as Tate and he will give that offense a whole new dimmension making the pats stronger than they are right now. They have like a bizillion of WRs right now, including Edelman that they love to take the slot position and they don't seem to eager to pay big bucks for Welker.

Regarding us, imagine having a real playmaker like Welker next to AJ. He will definetely take the preasure off Andre and will make us a very talented offensive team with our running game and two pro bowlers as WRs. He will be a good teacher for our young guns too, teaching them how to separate and be a mentor next to Andre playing as two WRs with very different styles.

What do you think?

stingray
05-19-2012, 10:15 PM
Why would the pats trade the best slot reciever in the nfl for Ben tate? And the Texans have no money to trade for Welker and sign him. I love this dream scenario trades which in reality have no chance of ever happening.

stingray
05-19-2012, 10:19 PM
And by the way, Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis is actually a very solid running back.

TexanCR
05-19-2012, 10:20 PM
Why would the pats trade the best slot reciever in the nfl for Ben tate? And the Texans have no money to trade for Welker and sign him. I love this dream scenario trades which in reality have no chance of ever happening.

I also think it wont be possible, however if we offer a second round pick and Tate the Pats will at least think about it. Regarding the money issue, yeah I guess you are right.

Other scenario will be trade for Dwayne Bowe, which is said to be on the trading block for the Chiefs but they have Charles and Hillis so they will not want to deal with us, unless is for multiple picks that we will not give.

TexanCR
05-19-2012, 10:22 PM
And by the way, Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis is actually a very solid running back.

Oh dude, your credibility just went out the window with that reply :(

Trap_Star
05-19-2012, 10:26 PM
...Wes Welker? Lets face it, Tate will want starters money at the end of next year, while Wes welker is going to be on the doghouse with the Pats GM and owner due to everything that has happen this offseason.

Do you think it will be possible this trade? Should we have to give a draft pick to sweaten the deal? Can we work around the cap issue to pay him for 3 season? He has prove to be pretty durable except for that play in the good old Reliant Stadium :)

I think both sides will get the best of this deal. The pats do not have such a talented guy in the backfield as Tate and he will give that offense a whole new dimmension making the pats stronger than they are right now. They have like a bizillion of WRs right now, including Edelman that they love to take the slot position and they don't seem to eager to pay big bucks for Welker.

Regarding us, imagine having a real playmaker like Welker next to AJ. He will definetely take the preasure off Andre and will make us a very talented offensive team with our running game and two pro bowlers as WRs. He will be a good teacher for our young guns too, teaching them how to separate and be a mentor next to Andre playing as two WRs with very different styles.

What do you think?

why would he be in the dog house exactly? he's already said when push comes to shove he won't holdout.

stingray
05-19-2012, 10:30 PM
Oh dude, your credibility just went out the window with that reply :(

Ok... Whatever. He averages 4 yards a carry and has never turned over the pig skin. I don't know what football world you live in but in my book, that's a solid running back.

infantrycak
05-19-2012, 10:34 PM
Ok... Whatever. He averages 4 yards a carry and has never turned over the pig skin. I don't know what football world you live in but in my book, that's a solid running back.

He doesn't play for the Pats anymore. He's with the Bengals now.

stingray
05-19-2012, 10:37 PM
He doesn't play for the Pats anymore. He's with the Bengals now.

That's right.. Forgot he signed with the bungholes. Just proves that running backs are a dime a dozen. I still think the pats would never make a trade like that other than for financial reasons.

TexanCR
05-19-2012, 10:40 PM
Ok... Whatever. He averages 4 yards a carry and has never turned over the pig skin. I don't know what football world you live in but in my book, that's a solid running back.

Hmm well if he still plays for the Pats in "your world" then it will be fine. Not being an a s s, but BGE signed with CIN this offseason my friend.

PapaL
05-19-2012, 10:44 PM
http://imgur.com/tCp90.gif

TexanCR
05-19-2012, 10:44 PM
why would he be in the dog house exactly? he's already said when push comes to shove he won't holdout.

The front office is not happy about him going public regarding his contract issues and just the fact that they dont have a deal already and that Welker is saying that the talks are "worse" than before he signed his tag says a lot.

Lucky
05-19-2012, 10:46 PM
And the Texans have no money to trade for Welker and sign him.

Nuff said.

Trap_Star
05-19-2012, 10:49 PM
The front office is not happy about him going public regarding his contract issues and just the fact that they dont have a deal already and that Welker is saying that the talks are "worse" than before he signed his tag says a lot.

you're right. welker has gone too far with his shit. i hope they blackball him out of the league.

Playoffs
05-19-2012, 10:56 PM
Not trading Tate. :mariopalm:

/topic

phantom17
05-19-2012, 11:04 PM
I would not trade Ben Tate.....at this time, bcuz if Foster goes down.....then the Texans hope of a SB will go down in flames......just like every year it seems with "freak" injuries! let's face it the Texans are a running team. We may have #80, but that's it! We just can't rely on the D all the time. This year we need a very healthy Matt Schaub, a repalcement for Joel Dreesen, a good 2nd WR, lots of luck, & no major injuries to go far.:bat::goodluck:

rush2112mn
05-19-2012, 11:04 PM
Trade Tate. So....who you replacing him with? I dont know where you were last season....but Foster was out and Tate went in and did a good job starting.
I like the way he runs too. He will mix it up for you. It is a good combination.....Foster the more elusive runner and then bring in Tate who will run over people and break tackles too.

I just think you dont trade a insurance policy at running back away like that.

Texan in Japan
05-19-2012, 11:21 PM
Having 2 starting backs is not a luxury in this league, but a must. AF is arguably the best in the business and Ben is a great #2, who give the defense something different to worry about.

Extend Tate and just stop this thread.

TexanCR
05-19-2012, 11:46 PM
Having 2 starting backs is not a luxury in this league, but a must. AF is arguably the best in the business and Ben is a great #2, who give the defense something different to worry about.

Extend Tate and just stop this thread.

Dont get me wrong, I love Tate. I think he is a great backup and a great insurance for Foster. The only problem that I see pass this season is that he will want to have a big contract that Im pretty sure the Texans will not pay after paying for Foster big bucks this season.

I will hate to see Tate go as a FA and get nothing in return for him, like Mario. I do not see this as a priority this season but next season we will have to at least consider moving him and draft a backup RB in the 4th or 5th round.

infantrycak
05-20-2012, 12:14 AM
let's face it the Texans are a running team. We may have #80, but that's it!

Sure they are. That's how Schaub put up over 9000 yds in two years and was headed toward another 4000 yd season before going down last season even with the league's leading rusher. The Texans are not a rushing team. They are a screw you either way they can team and do both very well (even with their barely above average QB and crap receivers) - the two play off each other.

ckhouston
05-20-2012, 12:14 AM
Oh dude, your credibility just went out the window with that reply :(

Very similar to the OP who suggested trading Ben Tate.

phantom17
05-20-2012, 12:29 AM
Sure they are. That's how Schaub put up over 9000 yds in two years and was headed toward another 4000 yd season before going down last season even with the league's leading rusher. The Texans are not a rushing team. They are a screw you either way they can team and do both very well (even with their barely above average QB and crap receivers) - the two play off each other.

But let us see what happens without a good running game! Schaub can put 1 million yds for all I care, but this team won't go far without it. The opposing D will blitz the QB at will! When Kubes was in Denver wining SBs, they had a great running attack & I'm sure Kubes likes to run!:barman:

infantrycak
05-20-2012, 01:31 AM
But let us see what happens without a good running game! Schaub can put 1 million yds for all I care, but this team won't go far without it. The opposing D will blitz the QB at will! When Kubes was in Denver wining SBs, they had a great running attack & I'm sure Kubes likes to run!:barman:

What did I say? I said we are designed to be a balanced attack. We are not designed to run the ball 75% of the time, i.e. we are not a "running" football team. Even with a third string rookie QB starting 6 games and the league's last leading rusher the Texans were balanced last year. The Texans and Kubiak are not a rush heavy offense. They are designed for things to frequently give rushing looks. There is a difference. The fact Schaub has one of the best play fakes in the game greatly facilitates that.

phantom17
05-20-2012, 03:23 AM
What did I say? I said we are designed to be a balanced attack. We are not designed to run the ball 75% of the time, i.e. we are not a "running" football team. Even with a third string rookie QB starting 6 games and the league's last leading rusher the Texans were balanced last year. The Texans and Kubiak are not a rush heavy offense. They are designed for things to frequently give rushing looks. There is a difference. The fact Schaub has one of the best play fakes in the game greatly facilitates that.

Sorry Infantry- didn't mean to argue with you. I was just stating imo what this team likes to do. I'm sure balance is what Kubes like, but I think, from watching this team since the Kubes era- likes to run. I just think if you have Arian & Ben- you use them & I didn't mean run 75% of the time, more like 60%.

Rey
05-20-2012, 06:19 AM
What did I say? I said we are designed to be a balanced attack. We are not designed to run the ball 75% of the time, i.e. we are not a "running" football team. Even with a third string rookie QB starting 6 games and the league's last leading rusher the Texans were balanced last year. The Texans and Kubiak are not a rush heavy offense. They are designed for things to frequently give rushing looks. There is a difference. The fact Schaub has one of the best play fakes in the game greatly facilitates that.

I think by today's standards we are a running team. We run the ball more than most teams in a pass happy league.

And omg with schaubs play fakes. He doesn't do anything special. He's not poor at it, but the play design is what causes defenses to bite up. What he does after the play fake is far more impressive.

Teams bit on the play action when sage was the qb, teams bit on the pa when Yates was qb. All they need to do is not be lazy or stupid and follow through. There is no big skill set to executing the play fake in this offense.

The texans have one of the best play action offenses is a more appropriate statement.

Grams
05-20-2012, 08:07 AM
Welker has signed his franchise tender - 9.5 mill.

Texans do not have that kind of spare change.

Playoffs
05-20-2012, 09:10 AM
Texans Regular Season

Passing plays 46% - 467
Rushing plays 54% - 546

Texans' Opponents

Passing plays 59% - 538
Rushing plays 41% - 378

Texans went from 10th in pass attempts in 2010 to 30th in 2011.
Texans went from 19th in rush attempts in 2010 to 1st in 2011.
.
.

Lucky
05-20-2012, 09:24 AM
Texans Regular Season

Passing plays 35% - 288/3506 yds.
Rushing plays 65% - 546/2448 yds.

Texans' Opponents

Passing plays 35% - 279/3035 yds.
Rushing plays 65% - 378/1536 yds.
That's just the completions. The Texans attempted 467 passes, and were sacked 33 times for a total of 500 passing plays. Add the QB scrambles to the passing plays (intended) and subract from the rushing attempts, and the Texans would have a darn near 50/50 split in pass/run ratio.

Of course, not a lot of teams have a 50/50 ratio, anymore. The Texans were 1st in the league in rushing attempts, 30th in passing attempts. That speaks to a) having a very good ground game, b) having leads in the 2nd half, and c) playing backup QBs over the last 6 games.

Edit: Just want to add a comment about Welker and the Texans. Not a great fit. Not that the Texans couldn't use a slot receiver such as Welker. Any team could. But Welker has more value to a team that runs a spread offense (like the Pats). Welker would not be an everydown player on this team. He would not be worth the $$$ he can command on the Pats or elsewhere.

Thorn
05-20-2012, 01:24 PM
Sure they are. That's how Schaub put up over 9000 yds in two years and was headed toward another 4000 yd season before going down last season even with the league's leading rusher. The Texans are not a rushing team. They are a screw you either way they can team and do both very well (even with their barely above average QB and crap receivers) - the two play off each other.

Yep.

Hopefully they can keep Tate. Foster and Tate are a fantastic one-two punch, and either of them could carry the weight if one is injured.

bckey
05-20-2012, 02:52 PM
Yep.

Hopefully they can keep Tate. Foster and Tate are a fantastic one-two punch, and either of them could carry the weight if one is injured.

I hope so too but the Texans are really good at letting people get away either for nothing or almost nothing.

The Pencil Neck
05-20-2012, 02:53 PM
Texans Regular Season

Passing plays 46% - 467
Rushing plays 54% - 546

Texans' Opponents

Passing plays 59% - 538
Rushing plays 41% - 378

Texans went from 10th in pass attempts in 2010 to 30th in 2011.
Texans went from 19th in rush attempts in 2010 to 1st in 2011.
.
.

Piggybacking with the same basic info...

In terms of passing attempts, the Texans were near the bottom of the league. We were 30th with 467 attempts. The Lions were #1 with 666 attempts. Only the Niners and Broncos had fewer attempts than we did.

In terms of rushing attempts, we had 546 attempts. That tied us for 1st with the Broncos. The average was 436 attempts and the fewest rushing attempts were the Buccs with 346.

It's interesting to note that we had the 6th most overall offensive plays. That's our D giving us opportunities.

I don't how we couldn't be considered a rushing team at this point. But the numbers are skewed a bit because Schaub didn't play the whole season. We probably would have passed more but we would have had more sustained drives and had more rushing attempts as well.

I think our offense is more holistically designed than many offenses out there and the rush and pass work together as a single unit more.

False Start
05-20-2012, 03:14 PM
No.

We have the best one two punch in the NFL.

eriadoc
05-20-2012, 03:46 PM
I wouldn't trade Ben Tate yet, and probably never would. They spent a 2nd round pick on him, groomed him, and now he's proven he can play in this league. So I'd have to get a first rounder or equivalent in exchange for him, because drafting someone in the 2nd round and then trading them a few years later for less is pretty dumb, IMO. You're better off taking the production at that point. And FWIW, I do not view Wes Welker as a first round equivalent.

It's a tough call, because I kind of see our situation at RB being kind of like the Chargers a few years back when they had Tomlinson and Turner. Turner has proven he's an upper half of the league starter, but he's not an elite talent like Tomlinson was. Similar with Tate, in that I think he could be an upper half of the league starter, but he's no Arian Foster. So in the end, you deal Tate for a big payday or you take the production when you have him and let him walk when it's time for free agency (and prepare accordingly).

Lucky
05-20-2012, 04:19 PM
So in the end, you deal Tate for a big payday or you take the production when you have him and let him walk when it's time for free agency (and prepare accordingly).
Maybe the better topic would be, "When do the Texans trade Ben Tate, if ever?" And as long as Foster stays healthy and continues to produce, Tate will not want to re-sign with the Texans. And the Texans won't be able to pay two RBs big money, anyway.

Tate is under contract through 2013. I doubt that franchising Tate in 2014 just to facilitate a trade will be an option. So the best time to trade Tate would be after the 2012 season. But what would the Texans reasonably expect to get in return for Tate? I can't see the Texans receiving a 1st round pick. And I would rather keep Tate for the 2013 season if I could only receive a 2nd rounder. He could garner a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2015 if he leaves in free agency.

My guess is that Tate stays through his contract, and signs with the Skins in 2014. He's from the area, Washington runs the ZBS (if the Shannys will still be there), and the Skins love being aggressive in free agency.

iLoveTexans
05-20-2012, 04:51 PM
No.

infantrycak
05-20-2012, 04:52 PM
Lucky nailed it above.

And omg with schaubs play fakes. He doesn't do anything special. He's not poor at it, but the play design is what causes defenses to bite up. What he does after the play fake is far more impressive.

BS. And when I say play fake I am talking about the totality of how he works the system. How when he actually hands it off he often bootlegs out with the exact same posture as if he had the ball where other QB's just stand there and watch what happens. How he conceals the ball when he doesn't. There are differences in qualities on how you do it. Carr was horrible and you could tell from a mile away whether he was actually going to hand the ball off - and that to remind you was with the same play design. He had two completely different postures and arm positions depending on what he was doing. Manning and Schaub are at the top of the league on concealing their intentions.

I think our offense is more holistically designed than many offenses out there and the rush and pass work together as a single unit more.

Exactly. We are not designed with the thought of being a ram it down their throats rushing team and then only pass out of desperation or for big plays. Everything is meant to work together as you say holistically to meet any occasion as needed. The Texans still run a WCO.

People are confusing success with design. Yes the last two years we have had great success rushing the football. But let's not forget Kubiak was a QB and is known as a QB guru. He isn't trying to leave the QB out of the game.

The Pencil Neck
05-20-2012, 05:57 PM
And when I say play fake I am talking about the totality of how he works the system. How when he actually hands it off he often bootlegs out with the exact same posture as if he had the ball where other QB's just stand there and watch what happens. How he conceals the ball when he doesn't. There are differences in qualities on how you do it. Carr was horrible and you could tell from a mile away whether he was actually going to hand the ball off - and that to remind you was with the same play design. He had two completely different postures and arm positions depending on what he was doing. Manning and Schaub are at the top of the league on concealing their intentions.

Schaub's play fakes have always been a thing of beauty. He has always sold the play fake. Even when we had crap RBs behind him, defense still bit on the play fakes because Schaub does such a great job at selling them.

I love it when he fakes out the camera operator. But I hate it, too, because I don't get to see what's really going on. :)

Back in the day, this was one of my biggest knocks on HWWNBN when he was in this system. Besides having a totally different motion when he was handing off, he would also stop and then run after the running back to be able to be in position to recover the fumble on a botched exchange. Schaub is great at almost always making that same bootleg run, or some sort of drop back at the very least, on running plays.

I was pleased to see that TJ had a pretty good fake, too. I think that comes from being in a similar system for so long and from studying so much of Schaub's tape in college.

EllisUnit
05-20-2012, 06:50 PM
Ok... Whatever. He averages 4 yards a carry and has never turned over the pig skin. I don't know what football world you live in but in my book, that's a solid running back.

ewww i have to admit i have seen a lot of him and i am NOT impressed with him, i wouldnt rank him above what tate has shown when he has been in. Tate would be an upgrade over Ellis....

badboy
05-20-2012, 09:50 PM
We are now developing starters that will do very well in this offensive & defensive system. We should have back ups that allow us to let some vets go at the end of their contracts or even early without over spending. Maybe Schaub, Cody, both Smiths and Myers come to mind. We have a very good 1-2 RB tandem & if Tate chooses not to re-sign team friendly deal after 2013, we should have someone in wings waiting to be our #2. Same with most of our better players.

IMO, with or without Schaub we have a team that should go deep in playoffs. We cannot afford much in trades as we supposedly could not have in free agency. Tate stays. As most know, I was not a fan of Posey and am concerned we may need to draft WR high next year. A vet in a trade would be great but not with the price tag. I think Texans play with what we have and do well.

2013 draft should be very interesting with the package we should have including the comps I have seen projected. There will be some ammo if Smith chooses to trade up for WR or QB. We are becoming a dynasty type team & should be very selective with any moves. The only enemy I fear is injuries.

beerlover
05-20-2012, 10:48 PM
I think we need to let the games play themselves out before we jump to any conclusions :kubepalm:

JB
05-20-2012, 11:24 PM
PapaL had the best post in this thread...





Not even close

ObsiWan
05-21-2012, 01:56 PM
No.

We have the best one two punch in the NFL.

This is really all that need be said.

mussop
05-22-2012, 05:15 PM
I wouldn't trade Tate for anyone right now. We are going to have to rely on the running game heavily this year.

TexansRule1
07-30-2012, 09:06 PM
Justin Forsett is showing well so far in training camp. If Forsett continues to perform well and none of the young receivers step up during the preseason to show they are ready to be starters, then Texans should consider trading Ben Tate. He has high trade value with two years left on his contract and already a proven commodity in NFL. (He would likely be a 1st rounder in a re-draft).

The challenge is finding a fit at WR on another team. The following should be considered: (1) The team has to need a RB (2) their WR core has to be deep enough to trade a player (3) their WR has to be established but not expensive as our salary cap cannot handle it.

Two targets I found were Damaryius Thomas or Hakeem Nicks.

Thoughts? Any other WR to consider?

rmartin65
07-30-2012, 09:08 PM
Justin Forsett is showing well so far in training camp. If Forsett continues to perform well and none of the young receivers step up during the preseason to show they are ready to be starters, then Texans should consider trading Ben Tate. He has high trade value with two years left on his contract and already a proven commodity in NFL. (He would likely be a 1st rounder in a re-draft).

The challenge is finding a fit at WR on another team. The following should be considered: (1) The team has to need a RB (2) their WR core has to be deep enough to trade a player (3) their WR has to be established but not expensive as our salary cap cannot handle it.

Two targets I found were Damaryius Thomas or Hakeem Nicks.

Thoughts? Any other WR to consider?

Its a good idea, one that should be considered. However, Tate would not net neither Thomas nor Nicks in return. Set your sights lower.

Playoffs
07-30-2012, 09:08 PM
Not interested.

Texan_Bill
07-30-2012, 09:21 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92196

Dayum!!

All I got was this:
No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

TexansRule1
07-30-2012, 09:27 PM
I also think players like Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb could be considered.

Playoffs
07-30-2012, 09:31 PM
All I got was this:
Quote:
No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
I guess the topic number changed when it was merged.(?)

steelbtexan
07-30-2012, 09:32 PM
I also think players like Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb could be considered.

I would love to get Cobb.

They will probably offer James Jones.

After much debate I would take Jones and a 4th rd pick for Tate.

This will never happen.

Texecutioner
07-30-2012, 09:34 PM
And by the way, Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis is actually a very solid running back.

That's debatable. Either way, he isn't anywhere near as good as Tate. Tate would be a huge upgrade to their running game.

The Pats would have no desire to do this though. Welker is a lot more important to their passing game than an upgrade at the running game would be.

Honoring Earl 34
07-30-2012, 09:40 PM
Ok... Whatever. He averages 4 yards a carry and has never turned over the pig skin. I don't know what football world you live in but in my book, that's a solid running back.

He's not on the Pats .

If they were going to trade Tate they would have taken the Browns 22nd pick in rd 1 .

steelbtexan
07-30-2012, 09:43 PM
He's not on the Pats .

If they were going to trade Tate they would have taken the Browns 22nd pick in rd 1 .

Woulda/Coulda/Shoulda

It's too late now.

TexansRule1
07-30-2012, 09:43 PM
I see Ben Tate like a Michael Turner clone. He was a backup to a stud and future Hall of Famer. When free agency came, he signed a big deal with Atlanta. When Ben Tate is up for his first FA deal, he will get premium money like Turner did.

If you trade for him now, you get a very young back who is already proven. I think the Texans should be setting their sights higher than someone like James Jones who at best is a #2. I think a GM can already see that Tate can excel in this league and should be worth a lot.

Honoring Earl 34
07-30-2012, 09:49 PM
Woulda/Coulda/Shoulda

It's too late now.

Which means the Texans didn't want to trade Tate .

Goldensilence
07-30-2012, 09:54 PM
I see Ben Tate like a Michael Turner clone. He was a backup to a stud and future Hall of Famer. When free agency came, he signed a big deal with Atlanta. When Ben Tate is up for his first FA deal, he will get premium money like Turner did.

If you trade for him now, you get a very young back who is already proven. I think the Texans should be setting their sights higher than someone like James Jones who at best is a #2. I think a GM can already see that Tate can excel in this league and should be worth a lot.

James Jones reminds me of a more reliable Jacoby Jones. I don't think he's #2 material really and I wouldn't trade Tate for anything less than a sure fire #2.

Nicks and Thomas are not going to get traded.

This FO had adequate opportunity to address the issue early in the off-season, but were too worried about trying to retain Williams that the FA WR possibilities now are just...dried up and your best options are vets who don't have great histories or are washed up.

I am still pretty upset at how cheap they could've gotten Brandon Lloyd for and did nothing.

TexansRule1
07-30-2012, 09:54 PM
Hey things change. That's why I made my post. Justin Forsett has shown up in training camp. He started for Seattle, but seems much more suited for a team like the Texans. Tate is trade worthy if you have a capable backup. A condition the Texans didn't know about and won't be sure of until later in camp.

When facts change, one should reexamine their conclusions.

badboy
07-30-2012, 09:57 PM
I'm thinking we need a WR but not at any cost. Unless someone falls in our lap, I'd trust our coach to utilize the RBs, AJ, TEs and yeah even Walter to produce in the passing game. I could be wrong but I also think Martin will develop into an option. If we could get a WR for draft picks this is the year due to extra selections. On any play, we should have 3-4 options open for a pass. It will be up to Matt to get the ball to open guy.

gwallaia
07-30-2012, 10:00 PM
Hey things change. That's why I made my post. Justin Forsett has shown up in training camp. He started for Seattle, but seems much more suited for a team like the Texans. Tate is trade worthy if you have a capable backup. A condition the Texans didn't know about and won't be sure of until later in camp.

When facts change, one should reexamine their conclusions.

How many days are we into training camp? 2-3 days? And you advocate that Justin Forsett has shown up in training camp? Trade Tate?

God I hope not.

TexansRule1
07-30-2012, 10:07 PM
How many days are we into training camp? 2-3 days? And you advocate that Justin Forsett has shown up in training camp? Trade Tate?

God I hope not.

Actually here is what I said:
Justin Forsett is showing well so far in training camp. If Forsett continues to perform well and none of the young receivers step up during the preseason to show they are ready to be starters, then Texans should consider trading Ben Tate.

Playoffs
07-30-2012, 10:13 PM
How many days are we into training camp? 2-3 days? And you advocate that Justin Forsett has shown up in training camp? Trade Tate? God I hope not.
Not enough of him "showed up" at camp to be an NFL feature back. Waiting for a few more inches an 20 more pounds of him to arrive. :ahhaha:

drs23
07-30-2012, 10:14 PM
James Jones reminds me of a more reliable Jacoby Jones. I don't think he's #2 material really and I wouldn't trade Tate for anything less than a sure fire #2.

Nicks and Thomas are not going to get traded.

This FO had adequate opportunity to address the issue early in the off-season, but were too worried about trying to retain Williams that the FA WR possibilities now are just...dried up and your best options are vets who don't have great histories or are washed up.

I am still pretty upset at how cheap they could've gotten Brandon Lloyd for and did nothing.

Dead wrong once.

Dead wrong again.

What are you talking about? Might wanna research those incorrect assumptions. You might be embarrassed.

Goldensilence
07-30-2012, 10:38 PM
Dead wrong once.

Dead wrong again.

What are you talking about? Might wanna research those incorrect assumptions. You might be embarrassed.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7115217/denver-broncos-trade-receiver-brandon-lloyd-st-louis-rams

Rams traded for Llyod Oct 17, Texans traded for Mason on the 12th.

http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/Texans-trade-for-Jets-receiver-Derrick-Mason-2214007.php

It was no secret really that Lloyd was on the trade block, Rams ended up offering a conditional 6th that could've turned into a 5th. Which I guess having a viable #2 Wasn't worth the conditional 5th.. instead we got Derrick Mason...washed up and useless for a conditional 7th. Home-run!

Far as my first assumption, I don't get what's dead wrong about it.It was well documented the Texans FO wanted to do everything possible to keep Williams and capwise were just waiting to see if they would get him back. Which, given the cap situation and what kind of contract he was likely to land... I thought it was really a longshot and they were better moving on. Mario Williams finally signed with Buffalo on March 15th... in the meantime all the legitimate WRs in FA were making moves.

Meachem - SD on March 14th
Jackson - signed with Bucs 15th
Garcon - DC on the 13th
Wayne - re-upped with Colts 13th
Mario Manningham - 18th with 49ers
Colston - re-upped with Saints

Not saying all the contracts that these WRs were given weren't bloated, but instead the FO opted to go the draft route....and even then decided to bank on middle round picks at WR.

I'm not saying it WILL, but it could come back to bite the Texans in mid-season.

TexansRule1
07-30-2012, 10:51 PM
Brandon Lloyd signed with the Pats in the offseason 3yr, $12M. I don't think the Texans could have gotten him for anywhere near this price.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7703571/2012-nfl-free-agency-new-england-patriots-brandon-lloyd-agree-3-year-12m-deal-source-says

gary
07-30-2012, 10:51 PM
All it takes is one injury.

TEXANRED
07-30-2012, 11:03 PM
Not just no but hell no.

Dutchrudder
07-30-2012, 11:10 PM
Justin Forsett is showing well so far in training camp. If Forsett continues to perform well and none of the young receivers step up during the preseason to show they are ready to be starters, then Texans should consider trading Ben Tate. He has high trade value with two years left on his contract and already a proven commodity in NFL. (He would likely be a 1st rounder in a re-draft).

The challenge is finding a fit at WR on another team. The following should be considered: (1) The team has to need a RB (2) their WR core has to be deep enough to trade a player (3) their WR has to be established but not expensive as our salary cap cannot handle it.

Two targets I found were Damaryius Thomas or Hakeem Nicks.

Thoughts? Any other WR to consider?
Did you try to think of it from the other team's perspective? Lemme help you out...

The Giants just won a Super Bowl with Eli throwing for 4900 yards last season and Cruz, Nicks and Manningham as their WRs. They lost Manningham in free agency, so they picked Rueben Randel to fill in as a #3. They also spent a 1st round pick on a RB David Wilson and resigned Bradshaw. So no, they are likely not in the market for a RB. Not to mention, the Texans have little capspace and Nicks' contract would put them well into the red.

The Broncos just invested a huge sum of money into Peyton Manning. Their WR corps currently is Demariyus Thomas, Andre Caldwell and crap. They have little at the position in the way of proven talent, which means they should be looking to score a WR like a Mike Wallace if one were available. They also spent a 3rd on RB Ronnie Hillman this draft and have MacGahee returning, so no they are likely not in the market for a RB. They have about 3 years to get a title with Peyton, and I doubt they are willing to part with any players at the moment, but would likely give up draft picks for proven players.

If you really want to find a trade partner for a WR, you need to find a team in rebulding mode that has a WR on a cheap contract, preferably rookie deal, that won't cost more than 3 million this year and next. We are up against the cap and have 3 premium players to re-sign for next year. The Texans are likely only able to keep 2 of them at best, so bringing in another expensive player means we might as well send an expensive one back.

steelbtexan
07-31-2012, 01:38 AM
Did you try to think of it from the other team's perspective? Lemme help you out...

The Giants just won a Super Bowl with Eli throwing for 4900 yards last season and Cruz, Nicks and Manningham as their WRs. They lost Manningham in free agency, so they picked Rueben Randel to fill in as a #3. They also spent a 1st round pick on a RB David Wilson and resigned Bradshaw. So no, they are likely not in the market for a RB. Not to mention, the Texans have little capspace and Nicks' contract would put them well into the red.

The Broncos just invested a huge sum of money into Peyton Manning. Their WR corps currently is Demariyus Thomas, Andre Caldwell and crap. They have little at the position in the way of proven talent, which means they should be looking to score a WR like a Mike Wallace if one were available. They also spent a 3rd on RB Ronnie Hillman this draft and have MacGahee returning, so no they are likely not in the market for a RB. They have about 3 years to get a title with Peyton, and I doubt they are willing to part with any players at the moment, but would likely give up draft picks for proven players.

If you really want to find a trade partner for a WR, you need to find a team in rebulding mode that has a WR on a cheap contract, preferably rookie deal, that won't cost more than 3 million this year and next. We are up against the cap and have 3 premium players to re-sign for next year. The Texans are likely only able to keep 2 of them at best, so bringing in another expensive player means we might as well send an expensive one back.

This might sound sacreligious, but BoB/Rick/Gary should trade AJ and use the $$$$ saved to trade for Wallace.

Rey
07-31-2012, 02:25 AM
Would have been interesting to get Brandon Marshall from the phins...if we could have afforded him and if they'd have wanted Tate. Doubtful on both accounts.

I think our best bet is what we have now.

Thorn
07-31-2012, 08:38 AM
The topic was silly the first time it was brought up, and it's just as silly being resurrected. We aren't trading Ben Tate. There's no player out there that will fit into the current Texans avaliable budget that's worth trading Ben Tate for. Besides which, who's gonna replace Tate?

Texan_Bill
07-31-2012, 09:05 AM
I guess the topic number changed when it was merged.(?)

Ahhh. Maybe...

b0ng
07-31-2012, 10:12 AM
This might sound sacreligious, but BoB/Rick/Gary should trade AJ and use the $$$$ saved to trade for Wallace.

It won't save any money this year, it'll actually cost money to do that.

nero THE zero
07-31-2012, 12:43 PM
I would love to get Cobb.

They will probably offer James Jones.

After much debate I would take Jones and a 4th rd pick for Tate.

This will never happen.

LZ claims the Pack offered Jones for a 5th-ish during this past draft and we turned it down.

ckhouston
08-01-2012, 09:44 AM
The topic was silly the first time it was brought up, and it's just as silly being resurrected. We aren't trading Ben Tate. There's no player out there that will fit into the current Texans avaliable budget that's worth trading Ben Tate for. Besides which, who's gonna replace Tate?

^^^ This.

Tate is an asset we cant lose right now, not this year.