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Rockville
06-28-2012, 02:22 PM
Some news from: http://www.houstontexans.com

Posted 57 minutes ago
By Nick Scurfield

Texans quarterback Matt Schaub has organized throwing sessions with several of his teammates this week at the University of Houston, about a 15-minute drive from Reliant Stadium.

Schaub, who missed organized team activities (OTAs) and mini-camp because he was still recovering from a 2011 season-ending Lisfranc injury, said Thursday that his surgically-repaired right foot is “100 percent.” He plans to continue the throwing sessions over the next several weeks leading up to the start of training camp on July 27.

“We found a field to go use to be able to throw and keep up with things, especially with the young guys, with all the young receivers and tight ends and guys that we have,” Schaub said. “I wanted to just get with them because missing OTAs, I missed those reps that I was getting with those guys and am just trying to bring them up to speed, get ready for training camp and throwing with Andre (Johnson) and some of the other guys. Just stuff that we can do to continue to stay sharp ‘til camp.”

Johnson, who is recovering from offseason arthroscopic surgery on his left knee, has been at every throwing session this week. Schaub said between 6-12 players have attended each one. The session take place around 9:30 every morning on U of H’s grass practice fields.

“We’ve had a handful of guys,” Schaub said. “Right now, the rookies are at the symposium, the drafted guys. Come next week, I expect all them to be out there. Andre’s been out there and a few other veterans. Right now, some of them have taken a little break, but we’ll come back here next week or just after the Fourth so we’ll have three good weeks after that to really get after it.”

New York Jets quarterback Mark Sanchez organizes an annual “Jets West” mini-camp of sorts in Southern California. Call this Texans East – that is, six miles to the east of Reliant Stadium?

“Yeah, I guess you could say that,” Schaub said, laughing. “Or just Humid and Hot Texans. The weather’s spiked up on us. But it’s just good to keep up with the guys and keep that rapport and camaraderie and just working on our own and getting ready to go.”

Schaub, who fully expects to be full-go for the start of training camp, said he has felt “great” physically on the practice field this week.

“Everything feels real good,” he said. “Doing all my movement and play fakes and dropping back, all the different things within the pocket that I need to be able to do come camp when the bullets are flying and everything. But I know what it takes to be ready for camp, and so we’re right there ready to go.”

Most of the Texans’ players got six weeks of vacation between the end of mini-camp on June 14 and the start of training camp. After not being able to participate in OTAs, Schaub was intent on making the most of his down time to get to work with his teammates for the first time this offseason.

“It’s huge. Especially not going through OTAs. You know, I was doing stuff on the other side of the field with the trainers, with Roland (Ramirez) and Geoff (Kaplan) and those guys, but to actually be doing it with my teammates, throwing to them and everything, that’s just huge. It’s simulating game reps and stuff that we’ll do in practice. So, anything I can do to continue to progress and do what I have to do physically throughout the course of a training camp practice and such to be ready to go is what I want to do right now. There’s no vacation time for me."

infantrycak
06-28-2012, 02:35 PM
Yeah, the guy is no leader.

HOU-TEX
06-28-2012, 02:43 PM
Kinda related, I guess, but do they make a brace or some sort of support for his type of injury? Something that might help to prevent re-injury?

ckhouston
06-28-2012, 02:45 PM
Yeah, the guy is no leader.

Looks to be a great leader ... on a field at U of H.

Lets see what happens in-game this year.

HOU-TEX
06-28-2012, 02:48 PM
Looks to be a great leader ... on a field at U of H.

Lets see what happens in-game this year.

Swoosh! Right over the head

Go team TJ!!!!

Rey
06-28-2012, 02:48 PM
Yeah, the guy is no leader.

I think Schaub is a good leader based simply on things I have seen. I really don't know though because I'm not in that locker room...

That out of the way....

Sanchez has been doing this for a few years now...I don't know that many would consider Sanchez a great leader because of that...

And this is just as much for him to get back into the groove of things as anyone else...

Again...JMO, I think Matt is a good leader. But I don't know that this is evidence of him being a good leader. Doesn't hurt, but I don't see this as an aha! moment...

Señor Stan
06-28-2012, 02:50 PM
Some news from: http://www.houstontexans.com


“We’ve had a handful of guys,” Schaub said. “Right now, the rookies are at the symposium, the drafted guys. Come next week, I expect all them to be out there. Andre’s been out there and a few other veterans. Right now, some of them have taken a little break, but we’ll come back here next week or just after the Fourth so we’ll have three good weeks after that to really get after it.”


"

Niiiice.

Dutchrudder
06-28-2012, 03:14 PM
I think Schaub is a good leader based simply on things I have seen. I really don't know though because I'm not in that locker room...

That out of the way....

Sanchez has been doing this for a few years now...I don't know that many would consider Sanchez a great leader because of that...

And this is just as much for him to get back into the groove of things as anyone else...

Again...JMO, I think Matt is a good leader. But I don't know that this is evidence of him being a good leader. Doesn't hurt, but I don't see this as an aha! moment...

At least he's not playing golf and trying to make the PGA tour instead...

HOU-TEX
06-28-2012, 03:23 PM
At least he's not playing golf and trying to make the PGA tour instead...

Hwhoa!

Give me a low one!

http://static.igossip.com/photos_2/august_2011/Sport_ex_tony_romo_golf.jpg

gtexan02
06-28-2012, 03:36 PM
I hope they are being careful. Both Schaub and AJ are recovering from injury plagued years and we need both of them at 100%.

The Pencil Neck
06-28-2012, 03:47 PM
It might not be leadership but it shows great motivation and desire.

thunderkyss
06-28-2012, 03:48 PM
Yeah, the guy is no leader.

Stuff like this doesn't impress me as leadership.

Him throwing that ball away too early... giving up on plays too early. That's what stops me from thinking of Schaub as a leader.

I don't have a problem with a QB throwing the ball away or giving up on plays. And I'm not saying he hasn't taken a few hits from standing & delivering in the face of danger.

I'm just saying it's been to far & between and I think he gives up too early more often than not.

He can lead a thousand tupper-ware parties for all I care & I won't be convinced that he is the leader we need him to be.

Good QB. Second tier QB... yup.

Super Bowl caliber.... eh...

False Start
06-28-2012, 04:39 PM
Yeah, the guy is no leader.

Pretty much what I was going to say.

2012Champs
06-28-2012, 04:51 PM
Stuff like this doesn't impress me as leadership.

Him throwing that ball away too early... giving up on plays too early. That's what stops me from thinking of Schaub as a leader.

I don't have a problem with a QB throwing the ball away or giving up on plays. And I'm not saying he hasn't taken a few hits from standing & delivering in the face of danger.

I'm just saying it's been to far & between and I think he gives up too early more often than not.

He can lead a thousand tupper-ware parties for all I care & I won't be convinced that he is the leader we need him to be.

Good QB. Second tier QB... yup.

Super Bowl caliber.... eh...



Funny Matt might have throw a ball away too early but TJ held on too long. I think holding on is worse. Super Bowl caliber is missused imo when speaking of a single position

Premier
06-28-2012, 04:55 PM
Yeah, the guy is no leader.

good for schaub taking initiative, but leaders are born on the field. organizing team workouts makes him a team manager, not a leader..

ckhouston
06-28-2012, 05:07 PM
good for schaub taking initiative, but leaders are born on the field. organizing team workouts makes him a team manager, not a leader..

Exactly.

HOU-TEX
06-28-2012, 05:17 PM
All his coaches and teamates consider, and have called him a leader for quite some time now. I don't really consider myself a Schaub "hater" or "bandwagoner", but I'd really like to know what it would take you "Schaub's not a leader" people to see what his team sees?

Maybe an audio clip from a game of him ripping someone's ass?

"Whoa! Did you hear that, Cliff? Schaub just yelled at AJ cuz he dropped the ball. Now that's what I call a leader"

:spit:

Speedy
06-28-2012, 07:27 PM
Stuff like this doesn't impress me as leadership.

Him throwing that ball away too early... giving up on plays too early. That's what stops me from thinking of Schaub as a leader.

I don't have a problem with a QB throwing the ball away or giving up on plays. And I'm not saying he hasn't taken a few hits from standing & delivering in the face of danger.

I'm just saying it's been to far & between and I think he gives up too early more often than not.

He can lead a thousand tupper-ware parties for all I care & I won't be convinced that he is the leader we need him to be.

Good QB. Second tier QB... yup.

Super Bowl caliber.... eh...

Man, I just don't get stuff like this. If he's not Brady, Manning or the love child of Montana/Elway, then to hell with him.

dinkatoid
06-28-2012, 07:43 PM
Good QB. Second tier QB... yup.

Super Bowl caliber.... eh...

I've never understood the superbowl caliber QB thing - I mean, Trent Dilfer won a superbowl. I think Shaub can get the job done, just needs enough support.

QB is a very important position, but at the same time, its still one position, and like all the others, you can make up for a less than perfect player by having good players around them. I am not saying that you can make up for ANY qb, but one of Schaubs caliber will be fine. Last year he did a very good job of not turning the ball over, which with our D is the most important part. Arian opens up enough room for Schaub to have an easier time throwing, and AJ is always there to help him out in tough situations.

Sure, hes not Montana or Young, but I still think he could be the QB of a superbowl team.

thunderkyss
06-28-2012, 08:03 PM
All his coaches and teamates consider, and have called him a leader for quite some time now. I don't really consider myself a Schaub "hater" or "bandwagoner", but I'd really like to know what it would take you "Schaub's not a leader" people to see what his team sees?

You can't go by their words. It's their actions, what they do & how they do it. From the Grid Iron, it's obvious they understand he is the QB of the team & they know the pecking order.

Maybe an audio clip from a game of him ripping someone's ass?

"Whoa! Did you hear that, Cliff? Schaub just yelled at AJ cuz he dropped the ball. Now that's what I call a leader"

:spit:

Nah...... yelling at people is a quality of poor leadership. If I showed up at work tomorrow & started yelling at everyone, I doubt they'd be thinking what a great leader I am. If I were promoted & started yelling, they might do what I'd say, recognize the pecking order, but they won't consider me their leader. Boss.... yes. Leader, not so much.

Man, I just don't get stuff like this. If he's not Brady, Manning or the love child of Montana/Elway, then to hell with him.

Who said anything about Brady, Manning, etc......

I've given Matt his due. 2009, I thought he should have been in the conversation of best QB in the league. But he hasn't played that way since. Regardless what the stats say, it's not about stats. It's about making things happen, and giving your team a chance to win.

I think he gives up too early on plays. Third down & 5, third and 15..... doesn't matter. If the play doesn't unfold as designed, the smart money is on him throwing it in the stands, or on a knee.....

Playoffs
06-28-2012, 10:10 PM
good for schaub taking initiative, but leaders are born on the field. organizing team workouts makes him a team manager, not a leader..Retweet from Scurf...

Yes, really RT @HardBodyRonnie: RT @NickScurfield: @MSchaub8 ranks 7th alltime in comp %-64.3, 10th in passer rating-92.2 - damn really?


Bring back HWNWNBMH! :pissed:

Speedy
06-28-2012, 10:23 PM
I've given Matt his due. 2009, I thought he should have been in the conversation of best QB in the league. But he hasn't played that way since. Regardless what the stats say, it's not about stats. It's about making things happen, and giving your team a chance to win.

I think he gives up too early on plays. Third down & 5, third and 15..... doesn't matter. If the play doesn't unfold as designed, the smart money is on him throwing it in the stands, or on a knee.....

And yet in another thread you have a low opinion of Brady's 1st few years in the league even though he made things happen and gave his team a chance to win 3 Super Bowls. Make up your mind.

thunderkyss
06-28-2012, 11:01 PM
And yet in another thread you have a low opinion of Brady's 1st few years in the league even though he made things happen and gave his team a chance to win 3 Super Bowls. Make up your mind.


Are you talking about the tuck? Is that making it happen?

EllisUnit
06-28-2012, 11:24 PM
Stuff like this doesn't impress me as leadership.

Him throwing that ball away too early... giving up on plays too early. That's what stops me from thinking of Schaub as a leader.

I don't have a problem with a QB throwing the ball away or giving up on plays. And I'm not saying he hasn't taken a few hits from standing & delivering in the face of danger.

I'm just saying it's been to far & between and I think he gives up too early more often than not.

He can lead a thousand tupper-ware parties for all I care & I won't be convinced that he is the leader we need him to be.

Good QB. Second tier QB... yup.

Super Bowl caliber.... eh...

Like he gave up on that play in washington 2 years ago :kitten:. I dont see him give up on plays early, we cant see what he sees on the field. The Schaub i watch every gameday does his best to make us win games.

Kaiser Toro
06-28-2012, 11:28 PM
I am interested to hear how everyone defines leadership, whether it be their personal experience playing ball or in biz life.

TejasTom
06-28-2012, 11:35 PM
Kinda related, I guess, but do they make a brace or some sort of support for his type of injury? Something that might help to prevent re-injury?

http://www.odditycentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/iron_man.jpg

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 12:05 AM
Stuff like this doesn't impress me as leadership.

Him throwing that ball away too early... giving up on plays too early. That's what stops me from thinking of Schaub as a leader.

I don't have a problem with a QB throwing the ball away or giving up on plays. And I'm not saying he hasn't taken a few hits from standing & delivering in the face of danger.

I'm just saying it's been to far & between and I think he gives up too early more often than not.

I'll give you $50 for a bag of what you are smoking on Sundays if you think Schaub bails plays early.

thunderkyss
06-29-2012, 07:38 AM
I'll give you $50 for a bag of what you are smoking on Sundays if you think Schaub bails plays early.

Where should I deliver? I smoke Pall Mall menthols, I'll put a couple of packs in a bag for ya, cost me $9.50.

But I definitely think Shaub bails early.

ckhouston
06-29-2012, 07:44 AM
But I definitely think Shaub bails early

Yeah, like bails the season early.

More bailed seasons than completed seasons.

This has to be the year he changes that, or he goes into lifelong back-up mode on his way to retirement.

CloakNNNdagger
06-29-2012, 07:45 AM
Kinda related, I guess, but do they make a brace or some sort of support for his type of injury? Something that might help to prevent re-injury?

A "brace" would be not be helpful for this type of injury. However, I expect that they will have a supportive custom molded carbon graphite full-length orthotic shoe fitted.

welsh texan
06-29-2012, 09:20 AM
The players respected Schaub as the leader from day 1, I've never heard a bad word said about him from anyone in the team, or anyone who's left the team for that matter. He's a good leader who's players buy into his leadership.

Organising a bit of throw and catch here and there doesn't affect it in the slightest. However, it does show a good togetherness amongst the players which is a positive.

Its also very positive that Schaub is now ready to go, I love me some TJ, but Schaub is by far the better option if healthy.

Marcus
06-29-2012, 11:34 AM
Are you kidding me?

How many years has Schaub been here again?

And this is the first time ... the very first time ... I have ever heard or read that Schaub "bails too early".

Some of you are just out of your freaking minds.

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 11:59 AM
Are you kidding me?

How many years has Schaub been here again?

And this is the first time ... the very first time ... I have ever heard or read that Schaub "bails too early".

Some of you are just out of your freaking minds.

In fact there have been comments he takes unnecessary hits from holding the ball to the last moment.

I'm starting to think the guy takes flack for looking like Mr. Magoo instead of Handsome Harry. It's like nothing he does can be correct.

thunderkyss
06-29-2012, 12:13 PM
I'm starting to think the guy takes flack for looking like Mr. Magoo instead of Handsome Harry. It's like nothing he does can be correct.

I've been saying the same thing for years. I've given him credit in 2009 for being the guy we need. I've been saying he needs to get back to playing the way he did in 2009.

Or even in last year's Raiders game. First half, he was all non-challant in the first half, like he just knew we were going to win the game... what ever happened happened & he was a little too cautious with the ball.

Then late in the third, it was like someone kicked him into gear & he started to make things happen.

I wish I could agree with all of you all the time. But I can't. & this time, I've given examples of what I'm talking about & what the difference is. If you're not seeing it, that's fine. But don't come at me like I'm smoking something.... where should I send those Pall Mall's by the way?

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 12:19 PM
I wish I could agree with all of you all the time. But I can't. & this time, I've given examples of what I'm talking about & what the difference is. If you're not seeing it, that's fine. But don't come at me like I'm smoking something.... where should I send those Pall Mall's by the way?

I'd look back at your examples but my DVD cratered. Oh well. My overall impression is just different than yours. If anything I would say Schaub takes unnecessary punishment. I really can't see where you say he bails early. Either way, the few times I smoke they aren't menthol.

Killer Bee
06-29-2012, 12:59 PM
It must have been hard for Schaub to watch the success last year after so many mediocre seasons. He has to have a big chip on his shoulder this year. I expect an exuberant year from him and AJ, two veterans with something to prove.

Rey
06-29-2012, 01:15 PM
I am interested to hear how everyone defines leadership, whether it be their personal experience playing ball or in biz life.

The reason that I say that I think shammy is a good leader is simply based off of what I've seen from the people around him. I've never seen a player on the team show the smallest hint of a lack of faith in him. To me that is an indication of leadership. The offense has never quit on him. Kubiak gets credit for the team never quitting, but schaub deserves some of that too.

But I'm not in that locker room so I can't 100% say he is a great leader.

For me leadership in sports and some other areas starts with performance. If you are not a good player and have never been a good player some people just won't take you serious. The better you are the more people will look to you.

Next id say is the ability to make others around you better. And this is where different styles come into play. Some people are talkative and know what to say to other people. Some people are quiet and can just give a look that let's you know you need to do better.

But basically that's what it is for me:

1) be great or really good at what you do

2) be able to make those around you better

drs23
06-29-2012, 02:01 PM
I've been saying the same thing for years. I've given him credit in 2009 for being the guy we need. I've been saying he needs to get back to playing the way he did in 2009.

Or even in last year's Raiders game. First half, he was all non-challant in the first half, like he just knew we were going to win the game... what ever happened happened & he was a little too cautious with the ball.

Then late in the third, it was like someone kicked him into gear & he started to make things happen.

I wish I could agree with all of you all the time. But I can't. & this time, I've given examples of what I'm talking about & what the difference is. If you're not seeing it, that's fine. But don't come at me like I'm smoking something.... where should I send those Pall Mall's by the way?

The only examples where you're saying Schaub "bailed early" that I can recall is when there was no where to go with the ball. I remember the commentators saying they were "smart throw aways". Is that what we're talking about here?

HOU-TEX
06-29-2012, 02:14 PM
A "brace" would be not be helpful for this type of injury. However, I expect that they will have a supportive custom molded carbon graphite full-length orthotic shoe fitted.

Something with a hard shell protecting from being stepped on would make me feel better?

HOU-TEX
06-29-2012, 02:24 PM
You can't go by their words. It's their actions, what they do & how they do it. From the Grid Iron, it's obvious they understand he is the QB of the team & they know the pecking order.


Nah...... yelling at people is a quality of poor leadership. If I showed up at work tomorrow & started yelling at everyone, I doubt they'd be thinking what a great leader I am. If I were promoted & started yelling, they might do what I'd say, recognize the pecking order, but they won't consider me their leader. Boss.... yes. Leader, not so much.



Who said anything about Brady, Manning, etc......

I've given Matt his due. 2009, I thought he should have been in the conversation of best QB in the league. But he hasn't played that way since. Regardless what the stats say, it's not about stats. It's about making things happen, and giving your team a chance to win.

I think he gives up too early on plays. Third down & 5, third and 15..... doesn't matter. If the play doesn't unfold as designed, the smart money is on him throwing it in the stands, or on a knee.....

My post was basically a sarcastic way of saying there isn't much Schaub can do to change the minds of the "Schaub's not a leader" group. Anyone that knows, played and watched football can tell he's a decent leader. Not sure what to tell y'all.

Is his durability a question? Yeah, I think that's safe to say, but I don't think his leadership should be questioned at this point.

I've been watching games from last year starting week 1. I must say, anyone that's thinking or saying TJ should be the starter is flat clueless.

The Pencil Neck
06-29-2012, 03:40 PM
Different people in different lines of work have different "requirements" on someone to be a leader.

For me, I have to have someone be competent at what they do before they can claim leadership. I have to trust that the person telling me what to do knows what he's doing and knows what I need to do AND I have to trust that the "leader" has a better grasp of the overall picture than I do. I want to be able to concentrate on doing my piece of the job as well as I can without having to worry too much about all the other pieces that are around me. And I expect a leader to make sure that each of us are doing what we need to do to move everything in the right direction.

I don't need someone cheering me on and telling me I can do it and trying to make me feel good about myself. I need someone who points me in the right direction and then recognizes that I'm doing good work when I'm doing good work and points out when I'm doing bad work and possibly offers suggestions or help when I'm struggling.

Some people want rah-rah. Some people need rah-rah. Other people need their asses chewed.

I can't say if Schaub is a leader or not. I'm not in that situation doing that job with those guys. So I have no information about how good or bad a job he does. And neither does anyone else. And I don't trust team sources when they tell me whether someone's a leader. So I try to ignore the leadership issue as much as possible. It's a black-box.

BullBlitz
06-29-2012, 03:53 PM
Different people in different lines of work have different "requirements" on someone to be a leader.

For me, I have to have someone be competent at what they do before they can claim leadership. I have to trust that the person telling me what to do knows what he's doing and knows what I need to do AND I have to trust that the "leader" has a better grasp of the overall picture than I do. I want to be able to concentrate on doing my piece of the job as well as I can without having to worry too much about all the other pieces that are around me. And I expect a leader to make sure that each of us are doing what we need to do to move everything in the right direction.

I don't need someone cheering me on and telling me I can do it and trying to make me feel good about myself. I need someone who points me in the right direction and then recognizes that I'm doing good work when I'm doing good work and points out when I'm doing bad work and possibly offers suggestions or help when I'm struggling.

Some people want rah-rah. Some people need rah-rah. Other people need their asses chewed.

I can't say if Schaub is a leader or not. I'm not in that situation doing that job with those guys. So I have no information about how good or bad a job he does.

And neither does anyone else.

Best to speak for yourself. You don't have the privilege of knowing what other people know, or don't know, about "how good or bad a job he does".

CloakNNNdagger
06-29-2012, 04:12 PM
Something with a hard shell protecting from being stepped on would make me feel better?

An upper hard shell is not what you need. If he has someone step on the top of the foot, you need the underfoot orthotic to prevent his mid foot from flattening out and again displacing the Lisfranc joint. Laces on top should be enough to maintain the foot securely to the orthotic. Actually, a hard shell against the top of the boney structures of a relatively freshly repaired foot wouldn't feel to good to begin with.

The Pencil Neck
06-29-2012, 04:51 PM
Best to speak for yourself. You don't have the privilege of knowing what other people know, or don't know, about "how good or bad a job he does".

I know that none of the known, regular posters posting on this board knows how good or bad a job Schaub does at leading the team.

HJam72
06-29-2012, 05:03 PM
As a regular "poster" on this board, I must point out that I don't know $^!+. :)

The Pencil Neck
06-29-2012, 05:16 PM
As a regular "poster" on this board, I must point out that I don't know $^!+. :)

You were exactly who I was thinking of when I wrote that.







:jk:

BullBlitz
06-29-2012, 05:47 PM
I know that none of the known, regular posters posting on this board knows how good or bad a job Schaub does at leading the team.

How?

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 05:50 PM
How?

What the heck is it you are asserting you know? Right now you look argumentative for no reason. If you think you have some source then stop dancing and put it out there.

The Pencil Neck
06-29-2012, 05:56 PM
How?

The only way to know is if you're in the huddle with him.

None of the known, regular posters are players. If there are players posting on this board, then they're not known, regular posters. Most (if not all) of the people taking part in this discussion are known, regular posters.

Therefore, the discussion is between a bunch of people who don't really know and can't really say.

ckhouston
06-29-2012, 05:59 PM
I know that none of the known, regular posters posting on this board knows how good or bad a job Schaub does at leading the team.

Unless they watch the games ...


The only way to know is if you're in the huddle with him.

Or if you watch the games ...

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 07:00 PM
Unless they watch the games ...



Or if you watch the games ...

Pony up big dog. You are making the assertion. Give all the examples you can of Schaub being a poor leader. Give us all your insight on what he said in the huddle. Give us what you know about his demeanor. Give us how you know the other ten players quit on him because they didn't believe in him. Give us anything to support your stupid conjecture..

HJam72
06-29-2012, 07:11 PM
I wanna know why it's PLAYERS only throwing sessions. Why can't I go throw the ball around. I'm not even a girl or anything (no, this is not debatable). :)

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 07:13 PM
I wanna know why it's PLAYERS only throwing sessions. Why can't I go throw the ball around. I'm not even a girl or anything (no, this is not debatable). :)

I doubt if anyone wants to debate whether that is debatable.

Texan_Bill
06-29-2012, 08:32 PM
I am interested to hear how everyone defines leadership, whether it be their personal experience playing ball or in biz life.

KT, interesting question. I define leadership by what guys do that other guys look up to. I don't think you necessarily have to be super-demonstrative like Ray Lewis (and applies to Cushing), although that works. There's also guys like AJ and even Schaub to a certain degree who are (for lack of a better description) are quiet, but are still able to get it done on the field. Then, there are rare leaders that do it on the field but are not the normal professional athlete and of course I mean Arian Foster (and potentially Watt, Barwin on defense, Braman on special teams). There are also guys like Duane Brown.

thunderkyss
06-29-2012, 08:57 PM
To me, leadership is being able to instill in your team that you'll walk to hell & back to make them successful.

2009, when Andre was rolling people over, dragging DBs 7-8 yards, fighting for every yard... I can't imagine another guy on that team not trying to play as hard. If he's going to do that, so that I can win a game.... well, what am I going to do.

I think that was a special year, even though we only went 9-7. That's the first time I saw that kind of leadership from the teams leaders. Nothing wrong with quietly doing your job & being an example in the gym. But we need people on the field to get the point across, "this isn't just a game, this is important, & it means something, & I didn't come here to lose."

That year, there wasn't a doubt in my mind that Matt Schaub would've walked through fire to make his team winners for the first time.

Remember little Stevie Slaton (not 2009 of course). When he just wouldn't go down. He'd stay up as long as he could, then the rest of the team would push the pile forward.

Domanic Davis had that in him too..... to bad about them knees.

Dunta Robinson..... before the injury.


But they've got to feel that you're doing it for them. I don't know how you get them to believe that, other than genuinely thinking about the team before yourself.

BullBlitz
06-29-2012, 09:43 PM
What the heck is it you are asserting you know? Right now you look argumentative for no reason. If you think you have some source then stop dancing and put it out there.

I'm not asserting anything. The original poster actually made a pretty broad sweeping assertion. All I asked was how he knew.

If you have an issue with unsubstantiated assertions, ask him.

The Pencil Neck
06-29-2012, 10:19 PM
I'm not asserting anything. The original poster actually made a pretty broad sweeping assertion. All I asked was how he knew.

If you have an issue with unsubstantiated assertions, ask him.

Are you CKHouston posting under two names? Because Cak was talking to CKHouston, not you.

My broad, sweeping assertions were that:
1) Different people respond to different kinds of leaders and that some people respond to rah-rah guys and some people don't.
2) No one who's posting here knows if Schaub is a good leader or not because you'd have to be on the team to know.

CKHouston disagrees with point #2 and believes that you can see leadership on a TV screen or from the stands. Cak was asking him, not you, to back up his statement that he could divine whether Schaub was a leader by things he could see from a distance.

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 10:30 PM
To me, leadership is being able to instill in your team that you'll walk to hell & back to make them successful.

To answer KT's question I think you illustrate two facets of leadership.

2009, when Andre was rolling people over, dragging DBs 7-8 yards, fighting for every yard.

That year, there wasn't a doubt in my mind that Matt Schaub would've walked through fire to make his team winners for the first time.

Remember little Stevie Slaton (not 2009 of course). When he just wouldn't go down. He'd stay up as long as he could, then the rest of the team would push the pile forward.

But they've got to feel that you're doing it for them. I don't know how you get them to believe that, other than genuinely thinking about the team before yourself.

I think the team knows Schaub will do his absolute best and he does everything to lead them to inspire their best. Then there is individual achievement. Nobody wants to let Dre down. It isn't just fans who know they need to get Dre into the game, into the hall. Dre is an overall inspiration, an aspirational one. Schaub inspires day to day, calling people, holding work-outs, being first in and last out. Sometimes just having faith in someone is leadership. I've told the story in the NSZ that I sent someone off to jail - when he got back I gave him the pig and he turned into a great gunner. He wasn't individually a leader but in his performance he was an inspiration. Little f#$ker was half the size of Texan Bill.

ckhouston
06-30-2012, 12:52 PM
Pony up big dog. You are making the assertion. Give all the examples you can of Schaub being a poor leader. Give us all your insight on what he said in the huddle. Give us what you know about his demeanor. Give us how you know the other ten players quit on him because they didn't believe in him. Give us anything to support your stupid conjecture..

Watch the games.

If you cant see it, there is nothing I can do to educate you.

BullBlitz
06-30-2012, 01:55 PM
Watch the games.

If you cant see it, there is nothing I can do to educate you.

Agree. In sports, not only is leadership visible, it is apparent. There is one natural leader on our team in my opinion, and that is Brian Cushing.

The Pencil Neck
06-30-2012, 01:57 PM
Watch the games.

If you cant see it, there is nothing I can do to educate you.

Or maybe you're hallucinating and/or over-estimating your abilities and knowledge?

The Medic01
06-30-2012, 02:36 PM
Agree. In sports, not only is leadership visible, it is apparent. There is one natural leader on our team in my opinion, and that is Brian Cushing.

There are many different types of leaders. There are guys who yell and scream like Cushing that is the leadership you can see on the field. Then there are guys who are quiet maybe point out some mistakes but generally quiet just be there when they are needed and set an example of hard work intensity and competency. They are the people who keep the team running. Leadership is not all about yelling and screaming and cursing.

SCOTTexans
06-30-2012, 02:52 PM
You guys are cracking me up with this leadership argument that neither side can win.

It turned into the same things over and over...

I'm just glad Shaub is trying to get more reps to make this team better.... and if the team shows up that is leading....

BullBlitz
06-30-2012, 03:24 PM
There are many different types of leaders. There are guys who yell and scream like Cushing that is the leadership you can see on the field. Then there are guys who are quiet maybe point out some mistakes but generally quiet just be there when they are needed and set an example of hard work intensity and competency. They are the people who keep the team running. Leadership is not all about yelling and screaming and cursing.

Did you say that it was? Or did someone else? I didn't.

The Pencil Neck
06-30-2012, 03:40 PM
Did you say that it was? Or did someone else? I didn't.

Really? You said:

In sports, not only is leadership visible, it is apparent. There is one natural leader on our team in my opinion, and that is Brian Cushing.

What The Medic01, ICak, and myself are saying is that not all leadership is visible or apparent. You are saying that it is and then you're saying that you didn't say that. Like you, CKHouston is saying you can see leadership by watching someone from a distance.

If I'm not mistaken, CKHouston is also saying that Schaub is not a leader. Or at least he's said as much in the past.

ckhouston
06-30-2012, 04:07 PM
CKHouston is saying you can see leadership by watching someone from a distance.

Is your contention that you have to be in the huddle to know if he is a leader?

My contention is that if that is the case, then he isnt.

infantrycak
06-30-2012, 05:16 PM
Is your contention that you have to be in the huddle to know if he is a leader?

My contention is that if that is the case, then he isnt.

Depends on the player. And you would be wrong.

Schaub shagged your dog and made him happier than you did. Just admit it.

The Pencil Neck
06-30-2012, 08:00 PM
Is your contention that you have to be in the huddle to know if he is a leader?

My contention is that if that is the case, then he isnt.

My contention is that you have to be part of the team and you have to interact with him. If you aren't part of the team, you're not seeing or hearing the things he says and does. If you're watching from TV, then all you're seeing is what the camera shows you. If you're at the game, you're only seeing things from a long way away.

Leadership isn't just something that happens on Game Day. Leadership is something that happens in team meetings, in the film room, on the practice field in addition to what happens on the field on Game Day.

thunderkyss
06-30-2012, 08:18 PM
I remember we had this same discussion about our last QB.

For some reason, I believe if he is truly the leader he needs to be, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

infantrycak
06-30-2012, 09:52 PM
My contention is that you have to be part of the team and you have to interact with him. If you aren't part of the team, you're not seeing or hearing the things he says and does. If you're watching from TV, then all you're seeing is what the camera shows you. If you're at the game, you're only seeing things from a long way away.

Leadership isn't just something that happens on Game Day. Leadership is something that happens in team meetings, in the film room, on the practice field in addition to what happens on the field on Game Day.

Agreed. Even when it happens on game day it doesn't mean you will see it on the boob tube. Tons of stuff happens on the sidelines and in the huddle which is never seen or heard. This is just people who want a foot stomper. I guess Tom Landry was never a leader because he was seldom demonstrative.

There are all sorts of moments we never see or hear. You get glimpses at best - things like Schaub mic'd up walking into the huddle his first year here down 14-0 in the first quarter against Carolina saying "OK, we've got them right where we want them."

This is beyond one or two players playing nice with the media about their QB. Every single player who has spoken on the subject for six years now has said he is unquestionably a leader.

I remember we had this same discussion about our last QB.

For some reason, I believe if he is truly the leader he needs to be, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

It is foolishness to even bring up Carr in reference to Schaub. Make a cogent argument he isn't a leader.

thunderkyss
06-30-2012, 10:17 PM
It is foolishness to even bring up Carr in reference to Schaub. Make a cogent argument he isn't a leader.

If you have to ask the question, chances are he isn't the leader we want him to be. Doesn't mean that he's not a leader, I know. But at the very least, it means he is not the leader we would like him to be.

No one questions Andre's leadership, why not? No one questioned Demeco's leadership. Why not?

Peyton Manning. Anyone question if he was the leader of his team? Sure, there were some who didn't appreciate his leadership style, but no one questioned if he was the leader of that team.

& no, it is not foolish to bring up our last QB because the same arguments were being made for him, by some of the same people arguing that Schaub is the leader of this team.

infantrycak
06-30-2012, 10:56 PM
If you have to ask the question, chances are he isn't the leader we want him to be. Doesn't mean that he's not a leader, I know. But at the very least, it means he is not the leader we would like him to be.

No one questions Andre's leadership, why not? No one questioned Demeco's leadership. Why not?

& no, it is not foolish to bring up our last QB because the same arguments were being made for him, by some of the same people arguing that Schaub is the leader of this team.

You don't have to ask the question. We have thousands of members, people listening to the radio, etc. The fact a couple knuckleheads, one who in particular doesn't think Schaub can't pee and hit the ground, raise the issue means nothing.

Nobody question's Andre's leadership? - seriously? Use the same criteria expressed in this thread - if you can't see it on TV it means jack. Now where has AJ done something more than play well? When has AJ been the demonstrative leader? When have you seen AJ in Schaub's face or another WR? The dude is a baller but he is one of the least demonstrative, least vocal people around. Do you see AJ on the sideline hand gesturing routes? No. Now Aaron Glenn was on the sideline after almost every series talking about coverage to Dunta. You'd never see it on TV but he was.

But I'll bail you out a little on AJ. He occasionally approaches Kubiak. It looks like a 6 year old approaching their dad. He's all, "um, coach, um I think if you call something I can double move the safety is um more to the middle and I can beat the CB to the sideline - um just a thought." Still doesn't make him a team leader other than the team knows he is damn good.

And yes it is foolish to bring up Carr. One guy was known as spending the least amount of time required at the facility - the other the most of any player. One guy never took his OL out to dinner - the other regularly does. Trying to remember the time Carr set up any voluntary practices with anyone - Schaub did last off-season and this one. I'm trying to remember all the glowing comments Carr received from his teammates - maybe you can remind me. Schaub is beloved by his teammates by every report. Care for more?

b0ng
07-01-2012, 03:12 AM
good for schaub taking initiative, but leaders are born on the field. organizing team workouts makes him a team manager, not a leader..


It's called team building and it takes leaders to put together and execute things like this in a fashion where everybody advances themselves.

thunderkyss
07-01-2012, 05:00 AM
And yes it is foolish to bring up Carr. One guy was known as spending the least amount of time required at the facility - the other the most of any player. One guy never took his OL out to dinner - the other regularly does. Trying to remember the time Carr set up any voluntary practices with anyone - Schaub did last off-season and this one. I'm trying to remember all the glowing comments Carr received from his teammates - maybe you can remind me. Schaub is beloved by his teammates by every report. Care for more?

I think Schaub gives up too early on plays, more often than not. 3rd down, instead of chucking it into the stands, or running out of bounds, when their isn't imminent, I'd like to see him put forth a little effort, try to buy a little more time, make something happen. I know he's athletically limited...... but I've seen Peyton Manning pick up first downs, juke defenders, & avoid contact with less athleticism.

Maybe that's not leadership. Maybe that's just knowing that the guy throwing the ball will do that little bit of extra to make sure we win, then I'm going to do a little more as well. I'm not going to let good enough be good enough.

IMO, that's the leadership we're missing. The field general.

Remember Andre..... 2009. Bowling in Arizona? Andre did that all year long in 2009. He's big, strong, he's a freak, but that was a different level for Andre. He hadn't played that way up til that point.

2009 was also the year I say was Schaub's best. He was that guy, he was the field general. He earned the right to demand the rest of the team give him 110% on the field.

Yes, I think if you're expecting Jacoby Jones to dive for a ball, focus & catch a ball knowing he's about to get smashed..... then the team leader...... has to convince me he would do the same thing. Not throw it away too early as often as Matt does.

Now if I need someone to organize a birthday party, someone dependable to give me a ride to work at 7am, someone to turn off the lights if they're last to leave the facility..... then yeah, Schaub's your man.

But if you want to win football games & Matt's your QB, we'll continue to remind each other that Brad Johnson & Trent Dilfer have rings.

otisbean
07-01-2012, 06:06 AM
I can remember a couple of games we lost with Rosenfels at QB where he tried to the do the exact things you're asking for, scrambling around extending plays. They ended with QB errors that cost us the game. Given the fact the turnover battle has such an important effect on the game, I'm OK with protecting the FB. Also, I would bet money that Kubiak would prefer a ball throw into the stands then a turnover due to the QB trying to extend the play.

thunderkyss
07-01-2012, 07:29 AM
I can remember a couple of games we lost with Rosenfels at QB where he tried to the do the exact things you're asking for, scrambling around extending plays. They ended with QB errors that cost us the game. Given the fact the turnover battle has such an important effect on the game, I'm OK with protecting the FB. Also, I would bet money that Kubiak would prefer a ball throw into the stands then a turnover due to the QB trying to extend the play.

I'm not saying that Matt Schaub should try to hurdle Terrell Suggs. But you look at the best QBs in the game today & they all can and have bought time to extend plays with more consistency than Schaub. They refuse to accept failure. IMO, that's the only thing stopping Schaub from being Great.

3rd down means something to them. It's time to go sit on the bench if they don't convert. They don't want to be on the bench, they want the ball in their hands. Not that Matt wants to be on the bench.

Go back & watch last year's Oakland game. There's two Matt Schaub's in that game. Through the first half of the third qtr, there's the guy that I think gives up too easy. After mid-way through the third, there's the Matt I like to see. Making things happen, not accepting what the defense will "allow" him to do. Extending plays. He extended more plays in that short time than he did in the four games prior.

Two things you should note.

I'm not hating on Matt. I know he can play like I want, I've seen him do it. In 2009, he did much more consistently than he has since. I'm telling you now how he did it in Oakland.
I'm not complaining or blaming him for the way that game ended in Oakland. I'm not saying he should've did this, or he should have done that.. he tried to give us a chance to win, he did his best. That's all I ask. If he'd have chucked it into the stands, then I'd be upset.
I felt the same way about Sage. I know other people think it was stupid, & I know he didn't "need" to do it... we were in the lead. But, I'd rather have a guy like that & try to slow him down, than having the guy you've got to tell to "turn it on"


Okay, so that's three things. I'm not saying that he needs to do it all the time. But if we don't have the lead... he needs to make every effort to convert, to get into scoring position. & if we have the lead, he should make every effort to extend the lead. If he's going to try to hurdle three defenders, put two hands on the ball.

ckhouston
07-01-2012, 09:47 AM
Now where has AJ done something more than play well? When has AJ been the demonstrative leader?

Doesnt need to do anything other than play well.

Andre Johnson is not the QB for the Houston Texans.

One guy never took his OL out to dinner - the other regularly does.

Wow! Then by all means I stand corrected. :rolleyes:


Care for more?

No, but I am sure your Schaub fetish will lend itself to us getting more nevertheless.

76Texan
07-01-2012, 10:34 AM
I'm not saying that Matt Schaub should try to hurdle Terrell Suggs. But you look at the best QBs in the game today & they all can and have bought time to extend plays with more consistency than Schaub. They refuse to accept failure. IMO, that's the only thing stopping Schaub from being Great.

3rd down means something to them. It's time to go sit on the bench if they don't convert. They don't want to be on the bench, they want the ball in their hands. Not that Matt wants to be on the bench.

Go back & watch last year's Oakland game. There's two Matt Schaub's in that game. Through the first half of the third qtr, there's the guy that I think gives up too easy. After mid-way through the third, there's the Matt I like to see. Making things happen, not accepting what the defense will "allow" him to do. Extending plays. He extended more plays in that short time than he did in the four games prior.

Two things you should note.

I'm not hating on Matt. I know he can play like I want, I've seen him do it. In 2009, he did much more consistently than he has since. I'm telling you now how he did it in Oakland.
I'm not complaining or blaming him for the way that game ended in Oakland. I'm not saying he should've did this, or he should have done that.. he tried to give us a chance to win, he did his best. That's all I ask. If he'd have chucked it into the stands, then I'd be upset.
I felt the same way about Sage. I know other people think it was stupid, & I know he didn't "need" to do it... we were in the lead. But, I'd rather have a guy like that & try to slow him down, than having the guy you've got to tell to "turn it on"


Okay, so that's three things. I'm not saying that he needs to do it all the time. But if we don't have the lead... he needs to make every effort to convert, to get into scoring position. & if we have the lead, he should make every effort to extend the lead. If he's going to try to hurdle three defenders, put two hands on the ball.

I don't see it, TK.
I went back and rewatched the Raiders game (specifically, the third and fourth down plays.)
I think you're being too hard on Schaub.

infantrycak
07-01-2012, 11:31 AM
I think Schaub gives up too early on plays, more often than not. 3rd down, instead of chucking it into the stands, or running out of bounds, when their isn't imminent, I'd like to see him put forth a little effort, try to buy a little more time, make something happen. I know he's athletically limited...... but I've seen Peyton Manning pick up first downs, juke defenders, & avoid contact with less athleticism.

You are totally blind to football if you are making this assertion or comparison. #1 Schaub has if anything been considered to hang onto the ball too long and take unnecessary hits. #2 Manning is the quintessential hit the ground like a sack of potatoes QB - half his sacks come from people touching him as he is curled up in the fetal position on the ground. Mario sacked him more than anyone else and it usually was with one finger.

Speedy
07-01-2012, 12:41 PM
3rd down means something to them. It's time to go sit on the bench if they don't convert.

Funny how the Texans have been in the top 10 in 3rd down conversions in 4 of the 5 seasons Schaub has been here.

TimeKiller
07-02-2012, 04:38 PM
People would complain about lack of leadership if Schaub DIDN'T hold extra practices. So....whatever.

People wouldn't know leadership if it led them to leadership.

ObsiWan
07-02-2012, 04:56 PM
Unless they watch the games ...



Or if you watch the games ...

Watchin' ain't playin' just like ridin' shotgun ain't being behind the wheel.

ObsiWan
07-02-2012, 07:29 PM
Is your contention that you have to be in the huddle to know if he is a leader?

My contention is that if that is the case, then he isnt.

If it isn't his, it's mine. If you aren't in the huddle to hear the confidence (or nervousness) in his voice, to pick up the certainty (or uncertainty) that we will get the job done in his tone, and to see no fear (or that deer in headlights look) in his eyes then you, no WE, don't have enough information to make a proper assessment.

If you ain't in the huddle, you're guessing.

Then again, you could get a read from what his teammates and coaches say. If you believe post-game presser-speak.

ckhouston
07-02-2012, 07:35 PM
If it isn't his, it's mine.

If you ain't in the huddle, you're guessing.




Really?

I could watch Brett Favre play and tell he was a leader, never got the invite to the huddle though. I must be like amazing Cris Angel football voodoo man to be able to do that huh? :rolleyes:

The Pencil Neck
07-02-2012, 08:00 PM
Really?

I could watch Brett Favre play and tell he was a leader, never got the invite to the huddle though. I must be like amazing Cris Angel football voodoo man to be able to do that huh? :rolleyes:

Like I said at the very beginning of this, different people get motivated by different styles. Different people lead different ways.

Being vocal and demonstrative is not being a leader. You CAN be a leader and be vocal and demonstrative but it's not a requirement and a lot of people are DE-motivated by that style.

Personally, what I saw on TV from Brett Favre would NOT have motivated me and he's not a guy I've ever thought of as having leadership skills. I've always thought he was a self-centered gunslinger. BUT... I wasn't in those huddles with him. I wasn't at practice with him. I only saw on TV what the TV producers wanted me to see. Maybe he was a great leader.

Texan_Bill
07-02-2012, 08:30 PM
Like I said at the very beginning of this, different people get motivated by different styles. Different people lead different ways.

Being vocal and demonstrative is not being a leader. You CAN be a leader and be vocal and demonstrative but it's not a requirement and a lot of people are DE-motivated by that style.

Personally, what I saw on TV from Brett Favre would NOT have motivated me and he's not a guy I've ever thought of as having leadership skills. I've always thought he was a self-centered gunslinger. BUT... I wasn't in those huddles with him. I wasn't at practice with him. I only saw on TV what the TV producers wanted me to see. Maybe he was a great leader.

Right! I said a couple of pages down-thread that there are ALL types of leaders. Demonstrative - Ray Lewis. Quiet - Roger Staubach or more close to home, AJ. There is no "cookie-cutter" example of a specific type of leader other than guys want to play for you.

Misnomer about Favre. Guys in Green Bay responded to a guy like Donald Driver moreso than Favre because they were never sure when Favre would throw some drive ending, stupid interception.

Texn4life
07-02-2012, 08:38 PM
Like I said at the very beginning of this, different people get motivated by different styles. Different people lead different ways.

I agree with this, and it kind of reminds me somewhat of Tony Dungy's approach to leading/coaching. He's not your typical NFL head coach in terms of how he deals with his players, but he managed to make it work. Same thing with a guy like Hakeem Olajuwon. He was the unquestioned leader of that team, but he wasn't an extremely vocal guy leadership wise.

I think Schaub is more than capable of being the type of guy to lead this team to a championship. After he's done doing it, then you'll have talking heads wanting other QB's to lead their team like Schaub does. Winning takes care of a lot of that stuff. Amazing isn't it?

Wolf
07-02-2012, 08:44 PM
Before last week’s game against the Bengals, Texans receiver Andre Johnson sought out quarterback Matt Schaub and told him he loved him.

After Johnson, who was playing in his first playoff game in a nine-year career, scored a third-quarter touchdown to extend the Texans’ lead to 14 points, he again found Schaub to give him a hug.

Schaub wasn’t in uniform for the franchise’s first playoff game. The Texans’ all-time leading passer was on crutches and wearing a walking boot because of season-ending foot surgery in November.

“I talk to Matt a lot, and he wants to be out there so bad,” said Johnson, who missed nine games this season with hamstring injuries. “I feel bad myself to see him have to sit there and watch.

Yates appreciative

Yates said he couldn’t put a value on Schaub’s contribution.

“He’s always got something to help me out, whether it’s coming off a bad play or a bad series or coming off a good series going into the next one,” Yates said. “He’s always got something positive to say that kind of keeps me going.”

Johnson said Yates threw a lot of balls to him when he was recovering from his first hamstring injury, so the two have solid chemistry.
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/01/good-soldier-schaub-helps-yates-as-much-as-he-can/

:shades:

ObsiWan
07-02-2012, 11:27 PM
Really?

I could watch Brett Favre play and tell he was a leader, never got the invite to the huddle though. I must be like amazing Cris Angel football voodoo man to be able to do that huh? :rolleyes:

I don't believe your standard for leadership is Mr. I don't care what's best for the Packers I wanna unretire.
Or Mr. I'll come back if you send a private jet and beg me.
Or Mr. My Arm is only at 70-80% but I want that consecutive start record so I won't take myself out of the Jets' lineup...
Or I won't lift a finger to help prepare Aaron Rodgers take my spot when I retire...

Yeah... he's a real leader.

b0ng
07-02-2012, 11:36 PM
Really?

I could watch Brett Favre play and tell he was a leader, never got the invite to the huddle though. I must be like amazing Cris Angel football voodoo man to be able to do that huh? :rolleyes:

Guessing about Brett Favre's "leadership", and then congratulating yourself for being "right" isn't amazing. The adjective that would best describe this action would be "laughable". Please tell me more about Brett Favre's leadership.

Rey
07-03-2012, 01:00 AM
Not sure how any one can be sure either way. Just based off what we do know though I'd tend to lean toward him being at least an ok leader.

Part of being a leader in sports is actually being good at what you do. The better you are the more people will tend to listen.

Take two guys who both say the same things and act the same way and people are going to listen more to the guy who has been more successful. The guy that people know is going to bring it on game day is the guy that they will be afraid to disappoint.

Matt does and says all the right things that you want in a leader, but I think if he has some signature moments in important games he'd have even more respect from his teammates. Guys would respond even more to him.

ckhouston
07-03-2012, 06:19 AM
I don't believe your standard for leadership is Mr. I don't care what's best for the Packers I wanna unretire.
Or Mr. I'll come back if you send a private jet and beg me.
Or Mr. My Arm is only at 70-80% but I want that consecutive start record so I won't take myself out of the Jets' lineup...
Or I won't lift a finger to help prepare Aaron Rodgers take my spot when I retire...

Yeah... he's a real leader.

I am talking about his career in GB not the fiasco his retirement became.

He was a field general. During the game he took control. As far as not helping Rodgers, it wasnt his job. Montana didnt help Young either. Who wants to speed up losing their job?

ckhouston
07-03-2012, 06:20 AM
Please tell me more about Brett Favre's leadership.

You dont own a television?

They are cheap.

Must be hell following football with just a radio.

Grams
07-03-2012, 07:10 AM
Farve is a "Me" first type of leader.

Schaub is a "Team" first type of leader.

Both leaders, but with a different style of leadership.

The Pencil Neck
07-03-2012, 11:03 AM
I am talking about his career in GB not the fiasco his retirement became.

He was a field general. During the game he took control. As far as not helping Rodgers, it wasnt his job. Montana didnt help Young either. Who wants to speed up losing their job?

He wasn't a field general. He was a gunslinger. He was about taking risks and making bad decisions. He was about joking around and cutting up and not being a professional. He was about not being in his playbook and not really knowing the gameplan. He was about looking for the big score instead of the sure thing. He was a sandlot type of player. He was the kind of player who would let the other team back in the game when you had them down, the kind of player who could bring you back when you were down but who got you down in the first place.

A guy like that can be the heart and soul of the team but you don't want him to be the leader. At least, I don't want him to be the leader. That sort of guy sets the wrong example. Young players might start emulating him and start cutting up and joking around instead of taking the game seriously.

BUT. As I said before, that's just judging him by what I could see on TV. He may have been a good leader despite what he looked like.

drunkcookie
07-03-2012, 12:03 PM
He wasn't a field general. He was a gunslinger. He was about taking risks and making bad decisions. He was about joking around and cutting up and not being a professional. He was about not being in his playbook and not really knowing the gameplan. He was about looking for the big score instead of the sure thing. He was a sandlot type of player. He was the kind of player who would let the other team back in the game when you had them down, the kind of player who could bring you back when you were down but who got you down in the first place.

A guy like that can be the heart and soul of the team but you don't want him to be the leader. At least, I don't want him to be the leader. That sort of guy sets the wrong example. Young players might start emulating him and start cutting up and joking around instead of taking the game seriously.

BUT. As I said before, that's just judging him by what I could see on TV. He may have been a good leader despite what he looked like.

That's the deal, it's not us he's trying to lead, it's his team! If they respond to it that's all that matters. Some teams respond to the rah-rah of a Ray Lewis, and some to the laid-back looseness of a Brett Favre.

I look back on those Packers teams, and though i may not understand Favre's style of leadership, i see that Favre was the leader of that team and his guys were in...

The Pencil Neck
07-03-2012, 12:31 PM
That's the deal, it's not us he's trying to lead, it's his team! If they respond to it that's all that matters. Some teams respond to the rah-rah of a Ray Lewis, and some to the laid-back looseness of a Brett Favre.

I look back on those Packers teams, and though i may not understand Favre's style of leadership, i see that Favre was the leader of that team and his guys were in...

I don't see Favre as the leader of those great Packer teams that went to the SB. I see it as Mike Holmgren and Reggie White. I see Favre as a piece of the puzzle but not the guy everyone was following. After Holmgren and White left, the Packers had some good years, some bad years. But they never got to a conference championship again until the 2007 season when Favre was surrounded by a pretty good team.

When he went to the Jets and Vikings, he didn't seem to display particularly great leadership.

mussop
07-03-2012, 05:58 PM
Hwhoa!

Give me a low one!

http://static.igossip.com/photos_2/august_2011/Sport_ex_tony_romo_golf.jpg

Romo "Someone show me what nutz feel like!"

ckhouston
07-03-2012, 06:21 PM
Romo "Someone show me what nutz feel like!"

At the end of the day for all my issues with Matt, I traded Romo for him in my fantasy league. I have AJ and Arian and OD, and think he will ring up good TD numbers, and I may get a double-dip or two.

In the end ... :fans:

b0ng
07-03-2012, 07:39 PM
You dont own a television?

They are cheap.

Must be hell following football with just a radio.

This is a response typical of somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about.

ckhouston
07-03-2012, 08:53 PM
This is a response typical of somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about.

Did mommy teach you that? :slapfight:

JB
07-03-2012, 09:45 PM
Did mommy teach you that? :slapfight:




Wow,do you just try to antagonize?

b0ng
07-03-2012, 11:38 PM
Did mommy teach you that? :slapfight:

I'll take this to mean that the previous statements you have made about leadership and Brett Favre were baseless and you really can't back it up with even something as flimsy as an anecdote, much less something more concrete like a quote from a player on those teams.

Funny thing is, if you had said Peyton Manning instead I wouldn't even be riding you about this. Would've just slowly nodded my head in agreement, which is kinda why I think most of your posts are without merit on this subject.

Good day sir.

ObsiWan
07-04-2012, 01:31 AM
At the end of the day for all my issues with Matt, I traded Romo for him in my fantasy league. I have AJ and Arian and OD, and think he will ring up good TD numbers, and I may get a double-dip or two.

In the end ... :fans:
You're in a Keeper league?

and they let you keep A.J. AND Foster AND O.D.?
:thinking:
...why you lucky sumb!+ch!!


.
:texflag:

ckhouston
07-04-2012, 12:52 PM
You're in a Keeper league?

and they let you keep A.J. AND Foster AND O.D.?
:thinking:
...why you lucky sumb!+ch!!


.
:texflag:

Yep, have Tate on the bench, Bullock kicking, and our Defense starting too.

ckhouston
07-04-2012, 12:53 PM
Wow,do you just try to antagonize?

Yeah, I guess I did on that one. Just sick of people asking me to proivide proof for my opinion ... it is an opinion.

Speedy
07-04-2012, 01:29 PM
Yeah, I guess I did on that one. Just sick of people asking me to proivide proof for my opinion ... it is an opinion.

Then you should treat as such as well. Just my opinion.

ckhouston
07-04-2012, 03:39 PM
Then you should treat as such as well. Just my opinion.

I do. I spew my opinion as fact, because in my mind it is fact.

Not asking for followers.

JB
07-04-2012, 04:05 PM
Yeah, I guess I did on that one. Just sick of people asking me to proivide proof for my opinion ... it is an opinion.

Perhaps you should understand that others have opinions also, and while you may not agree, doesn't mean their wrong anymore than you are...

ckhouston
07-04-2012, 06:10 PM
Perhaps you should understand that others have opinions also, and while you may not agree, doesn't mean their wrong anymore than you are...


Never said you were wrong. I respect all opinions.

ckhouston
07-04-2012, 06:12 PM
Then you should treat as such as well. Just my opinion.

Agree.

ObsiWan
07-04-2012, 06:18 PM
Yep, have Tate on the bench, Bullock kicking, and our Defense starting too.

If I could stack my team, that's how I'd do it. And I'd start a healthy Schaub. I started drafting mostly Texans but the other guys caught onto what I was doing and started snagging them before I could get O.D. and our defense. Schaub was already gone...
...Foster went in the first round before my turn came up


Wait... if Tate's on your bench, who is your #2 RB?

ckhouston
07-05-2012, 09:54 AM
If I could stack my team, that's how I'd do it. And I'd start a healthy Schaub. I started drafting mostly Texans but the other guys caught onto what I was doing and started snagging them before I could get O.D. and our defense. Schaub was already gone...
...Foster went in the first round before my turn came up


Wait... if Tate's on your bench, who is your #2 RB?

Took a flyer on Jamal Charles.

By all accounts he is healthy and should get the bulk of the carries.

disaacks3
07-05-2012, 10:29 AM
To all who question Schaub's leadership, how about if a player, "THE PLAYER" on this team disagrees with you?

Circa 2007 - yep, that's how long it took to impress AJ

"Just from looking at the way he walks around the locker room and things like that, you can tell he's a leader," Johnson said. "That's something you want to have at the quarterback position."

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2824242)

If his word isn't good enough for you then you need professional help. Get it before the season starts.

thunderkyss
07-05-2012, 01:39 PM
To all who question Schaub's leadership, how about if a player, "THE PLAYER" on this team disagrees with you?

Circa 2007 - yep, that's how long it took to impress AJ



Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2824242)

If his word isn't good enough for you then you need professional help. Get it before the season starts.

& Here's another one.. Link that is. (http://search.espn.go.com/david-carr/audio/non-insider/7-84)

And this one (http://lubbockonline.com/stories/081405/pro_081405109.shtml), not Andre speaking, but respected players none the less.

disaacks3
07-05-2012, 01:45 PM
& Here's another one.. Link that is. (http://search.espn.go.com/david-carr/audio/non-insider/7-84)

And this one (http://lubbockonline.com/stories/081405/pro_081405109.shtml), not Andre speaking, but respected players none the less.

So, I give a link where Andre makes comments like this: He said it was disappointing that Carr, who was the first pick in the 2002 draft, wasn't able to succeed in Houston and offered an opinion why. Johnson was the third overall pick in 2003.


"From my first year here, I think it was the way he was coached," Johnson said. "My first couple of years here he was pretty much just told where to throw the ball at, and a lot of people didn't know that. He was never really taught to go through reads and things like that. Once coach [Gary] Kubiak came in, that was his big thing, teaching him how to go through reads. So it was like he was starting all over again." ...and your answer is that David Carr was a great leader?

:spit:

ckhouston
07-05-2012, 01:47 PM
So, I give a link where Andre makes comments like this: ...and your answer is that David Carr was a great leader?

:spit:

David Carr was killed by Chris Palmer. At some point I expect to read that Carr kills Palmer in a fit of rage.

disaacks3
07-05-2012, 01:50 PM
David Carr was killed by Chris Palmer. At some point I expect to read that Carr kills Palmer in a fit of rage. Palmer definitely didn't do him any favors for certain. I doubt Carr would ever have been great, but I sure would've like to see what Kubiak could have done with him.

beerlover
07-05-2012, 01:59 PM
Palmer definitely didn't do him any favors for certain. I doubt Carr would ever have been great, but I sure would've like to see what Kubiak could have done with him.

Carr was/is a QB guru killer. He got Palmer then almost took Kubes down to. Poor work ethic with a diva mentality.

ckhouston
07-05-2012, 02:34 PM
Carr was/is a QB guru killer. He got Palmer then almost took Kubes down to. Poor work ethic with a diva mentality.

BS ... Palmer is a joke.

b0ng
07-05-2012, 03:55 PM
Yeah, I guess I did on that one. Just sick of people asking me to proivide proof for my opinion ... it is an opinion.

Do you not have any logic or fact to your opinions, the way you present your opinions and then the adamant refusal to say why you have these opinions is perplexing. Basically any discussion we seem to have about differing opinions devolve into "no its not, yes it is" deals with everybody asking you why you think your opinions are grounded in reality. What we get met with from you is stark indignation about why you have to back up your opinion with something logical.

thunderkyss
07-05-2012, 06:01 PM
So, I give a link where Andre makes comments like this:


Your link was more like:
Texans WR Andre Johnson says David Carr has become more of a leader.

But it was kinda hard to post a link that went directly to that statement. The second link has Chester Pitts, another player respected around here, saying:

"He's the quarterback, so he's always been the leader and always will be the leader," said offensive guard Chester Pitts, also entering his fourth season. "But this year he really stepped up and showed that he really wants it and is taking it now."

Two respected players of our beloved team proclaiming David Carr as the leader.

I think it's more a case of, "what do you think they are going to say?"

...and your answer is that David Carr was a great leader?

:spit:

well, not exactly.

ckhouston
07-05-2012, 07:42 PM
Do you not have any logic or fact to your opinions, the way you present your opinions and then the adamant refusal to say why you have these opinions is perplexing. Basically any discussion we seem to have about differing opinions devolve into "no its not, yes it is" deals with everybody asking you why you think your opinions are grounded in reality. What we get met with from you is stark indignation about why you have to back up your opinion with something logical.

I dont have to "back my opinion up" with anything.

If you dont like my opinion ... move on ...

infantrycak
07-05-2012, 09:50 PM
I dont have to "back my opinion up" with anything.

If you dont like my opinion ... move on ...

You don't have to. You can ignore what multiple members of the MB have suggested to you. Just hope you're happy with your opinions being thought of as being pulled from your nether regions since you won't back them up in any fashion.

I don't know where people have gotten the idea saying "in my opinion" is some kind of golden parachute to saying whatever dumbass stuff they want.

Stick "in my opinion" in front of a stupid assertion and it is still a stupid assertion.

ckhouston
07-05-2012, 09:58 PM
You don't have to. You can ignore what multiple members of the MB have suggested to you. Just hope you're happy with your opinions being thought of as being pulled from your nether regions since you won't back them up in any fashion.

I don't know where people have gotten the idea saying "in my opinion" is some kind of golden parachute to saying whatever dumbass stuff they want.

Stick "in my opinion" in front of a stupid assertion and it is still a stupid assertion.

Its funny, you attack people on a person to person level so much, I wonder if you still realize you are just flesh and bone.

I have my opinion, you have yours, neither are factual or set in stone.

After the season is over either I will admit I was wrong or watch you spin why you were but it doesnt count.

JB
07-05-2012, 10:10 PM
Its funny, you attack people on a person to person level so much, I wonder if you still realize you are just flesh and bone.

I have my opinion, you have yours, neither are factual or set in stone.

After the season is over either I will admit I was wrong or watch you spin why you were but it doesnt count.

huh? What is it... a season by season opinion of a career intangible?

TejasTom
07-06-2012, 08:33 AM
The trick to being a good leader is knowing people are motivated in different ways.

Some you have to criticize and some you have to praise. Some you have to yell at while others need a pat on the back.

burro
07-06-2012, 02:18 PM
Schaub isn't a drunkard, druggie, narcissist, distraction, criminal, sociopath, or David Carr. That's good enough for me on the intangibles front.

The burden of being "the leader" (cue the "oooh"s and "ahhh"s) falls on Kubiak's shoulders and it's safe to say the jury is still out on that.

HJam72
07-06-2012, 03:55 PM
Stick "in my opinion" in front of a stupid assertion and it is still a stupid assertion.

IMO, that is not true. :whip:

HJam72
07-06-2012, 03:58 PM
Schaub isn't a drunkard, druggie, narcissist, distraction, criminal, sociopath, or David Carr. That's good enough for me on the intangibles front.

The burden of being "the leader" (cue the "oooh"s and "ahhh"s) falls on Kubiak's shoulders and it's safe to say the jury is still out on that.

This is what I used to say about Dom Capers when I defended David Carr, but it was just an opinion. :)

burro
07-06-2012, 05:18 PM
This is what I used to say about Dom Capers when I defended David Carr, but it was just an opinion. :)

You would have been right if Capers had any say in keeping/replacing Carr. I can't blame Capers for his failure in coaching/motivating Carr, because it wasn't possible. Even Kubiak, who seems to loathe the idea of giving up on anybody, gave up on him after a season (granted, I always assumed that working with Carr was a condition for his hire; rather than something Kubiak was particularly interested in himself).