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CloakNNNdagger
06-26-2012, 08:08 PM
Could this be our vet? Had a restful couple of years in jail and still showed something last year with a pretty pitiful QB. I'm sure McNair would insist that his contract reads, "I promise not to carry a firearm, especially into a bar. But if I do, I promise to wear a bulletproof cup to protect my performance-based testosterone."

NFL Rumors: Will Plaxico Burress End Up With The Houston Texans? (http://www.rantsports.com/houston-texans/2012/06/26/nfl-rumors-will-plaxico-burress-end-up-with-the-houston-texans/)

One of the NFL rumors that surfaced Tuesday was that the Houston Texans are interested in Plaxico Burress. The wide receiver needs a job, and the Texans need another wideout.

Burress spent last year with the New York Jets after sitting out of the NFL all together for the 2009-10 seasons due to a two-year prison sentence he received in September 2009 after pleading guilty to one count of attempted criminal possession of a weapon.

The former Super Bowl XLII hero and then-New York Giants teammate Antonio Pierce were at the LQ nightclub in Manhattan late November 2008 when the gun Burress was carrying in his waistband accidentally went off and shot him in the thigh. Pierce drove Burress to the hospital where the incident was not reported to police and two days later Burress turned himself in on charges of criminal possession of a handgun. The handgun was not licensed in New Jersey (where he lived) or New York and his license to carry a concealed weapon in the state of Florida had expired in May of that year. The Giants released Burress in April 2009.

One month following his release from prison in June 2011, Burress said during an interview on the NFL Network:

“When you say Houston, all I can say is ‘Wow,’ ” Burress said. “That’s all I can say, because I give respect where respect is due. And I believe Andre Johnson is the best wide receiver in football. … The way he’s playing down in Houston, they’re getting everything going in the right direction. Matt Schaub has really taken off as an elite quarterback. I think Arian Foster is one of the top-five running backs in this league. I think that team is bound for the playoffs this year and looking forward to great things.”

Currently the Houston Texans have two wide receivers that have caught an NFL pass – Johnson and Kevin Walter. They brought in veteran Mike Sims-Walker for a three-day tryout during mini-camp earlier this month but Sims-Walker did not sign with Houston and is still a free agent.

Burress comes with age (he turns 35 in August) and baggage, but he also has an upside. The Jets finished the 2011 season averaging 206 yards passing per game while Mark Sanchez had a completion percentage of 56.7% and a 78.2 QB rating. Yet Burress had 45 catches for 612 yards and eight touchdowns.

The 6’5” Burress adds a big target and NFL experience to the defending AFC South Champions. With Johnson coming off of arthroscopic knee surgery in May and a very young and inexperienced receiving corps behind him, the upside might be too much for the Texans to pass up.

SheTexan
06-26-2012, 08:16 PM
Well, probably just another media speculation, BUT, if fans can forgive Michael, the dog killer, VICK, then why not Plaxico? If he still has what it takes to get the job done, then bring him on, at least for a tryout. Nothing ventured, nothing gained! JMO!:bubbles:

b0ng
06-26-2012, 08:25 PM
Never heard of rantsports. Doesn't seem like a Smithiak move.

ThaShark316
06-26-2012, 08:27 PM
Well, probably just another media speculation, BUT, if fans can forgive Michael, the dog killer, VICK, then why not Plaxico? If he still has what it takes to get the job done, then bring him on, at least for a tryout. Nothing ventured, nothing gained! JMO!:bubbles:

What did Plax do beside shoot HIMSELF? Nothing for anyone to forgive.

SheTexan
06-26-2012, 08:31 PM
What did Plax do beside shoot HIMSELF? Nothing for anyone to forgive.

Very true, BUT, he has been labeled as a trouble maker. Fans are fickle!

ckhouston
06-26-2012, 08:44 PM
What did Plax do beside shoot HIMSELF? Nothing for anyone to forgive.

Exactly, his only crime was stupidity.

ArlingtonTexan
06-26-2012, 08:47 PM
What did Plax do beside shoot HIMSELF? Nothing for anyone to forgive.

He has had domestic disturbance issues and acting like jackass when partying issues throughout his career. that article reads like a dude (well chick) speculating randomly versus a "connected" rumor, but who really knows.

GP
06-26-2012, 08:51 PM
I have no opinion. Don't see it happening, though.

badboy
06-26-2012, 08:56 PM
I'd be open to it with a "team" contract.

TexansBull
06-26-2012, 09:09 PM
Exactly, his only crime was stupidity.

And there are a lot of offenders of that crime.

Dutchrudder
06-26-2012, 09:16 PM
I have wanted him for a vet minimum deal since before free agency started. He warrants coverage across from AJ, and that's really all we need. He would help open up the run game and provide a big target for the QB. I believe he would be a great #3 or 4 WR that could help this team. Give him a chance and drop Dwight Jones off the roster if needed. He has been waiting long enough, I'm sure he will be cheap now.

ckhouston
06-26-2012, 09:17 PM
And there are a lot of offenders of that crime.

Alas, tis true ... the majority of which have no inkling they belong to the criminal element.

TEXANRED
06-26-2012, 09:21 PM
Exactly, his only crime was stupidity.

The real crime is he shot himself in New York City. Had he done that here he would have been called a dumbass and Kubiak would have said something like "Gosh that kid has some maturin to do."

Plaxico? Hell yes. Bring him in.

Texan_Bill
06-26-2012, 09:21 PM
Well, probably just another media speculation, BUT, if fans can forgive Michael, the dog killer, VICK, then why not Plaxico? If he still has what it takes to get the job done, then bring him on, at least for a tryout. Nothing ventured, nothing gained! JMO!:bubbles:

Gma... BTW, I miss you darlin' through this brutal offseason (missing ALL my beloveds from Blue Crew and/or "the Bull Pen").... EFF it, give it a shot,NO???

Texanmike02
06-26-2012, 09:22 PM
AJ, AF, OD and PB in the red zone? Scary.

Mike

silvrhand
06-26-2012, 09:28 PM
I'd be up for this, he's had his issues but what kids don't when you give them millions of dollars, I'd had been in the titty bar 24x7 right with Bill.

gtexan02
06-26-2012, 09:38 PM
Td machine

Texn4life
06-26-2012, 09:39 PM
He seems to be really confident and motivated listening to a couple of his interviews last week. I don't see it happening based on our team's MO, but I wouldn't be upset about it. He provides a legit red zone threat and should be a lot better than he was last year with a full year to train and get his legs under him.

mussop
06-26-2012, 09:52 PM
Would be a great pickup simply because it would give Shaub another big target. He is basically Kevin Walter squared. Would really make a difference in the red zone. Shouldn't cost much either. Really a no loose situation.

Nawzer
06-26-2012, 10:01 PM
This is one of the few times I actually think bringing in a veteran receiver can help. He certainly has the physical abilities and would be good compliment to AJ.

TheMatrix31
06-26-2012, 10:55 PM
Bring him in. The Texans organization has matured enough to say to him "one **** up, one ANYTHING, and you're gone."

Make that known, and let's see what he's got.

Texecutioner
06-26-2012, 11:07 PM
I would be ecstatic to see this happen. Dude can still be a very good RZ threat, and I think all of his troubles and poor attitude problems are behind him. We wouldn't need him to be a star, and this could potentially really help this receiving core. Please let this be true and get it done Smithinair. :bubbles:

Lucky
06-26-2012, 11:49 PM
Rumored by whom? Internet blogs? I don't see anything about this on PFT's rumor mill (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/search/Plaxico)? Is it really a rumor if it's not on Pro Football Talk? I think not.

Premier
06-27-2012, 05:38 AM
Bring him in. The Texans organization has matured enough to say to him "one **** up, one ANYTHING, and you're gone."

Make that known, and let's see what he's got.

sounds like something you would say to T.O. or Ocho.. Burress isnt that type of guy..

DX-TEX
06-27-2012, 06:32 AM
Didnt we contact him last year and then he signed with the Jets?

hobie
06-27-2012, 06:58 AM
Bring him in... Being also a Giants fan, I loved the guy there.. he wasn't a problem with them. He wasn't a problem with the Jets either. He shot himself, he paid the price.. damn fool. BUT, put him on the other side of AJ and more so in the red zone, good luck deciding which guy to double.. PB can still get up there and make those plays.
If he wants to come here, I would be more than happy !

HOU-TEX
06-27-2012, 08:50 AM
Said it last year and I'll say it again this year, heck yes I'd bring him in. It'd be a team friendly contract, which means we could whack him if it doesn't work out

drs23
06-27-2012, 08:56 AM
I'm in agreement with those who say he's worth the shot. I can think of one game where had he been there instead of Jacoby it's a W instead of a L. Yes, the Raiders game with 8 ticks left. I have all the confidence in the world that had he been behind the defender instead of #12 we'd have witnessed a fade to the corner a lob and a leap. Red zone completion, touchdown and game over. 11 & 5 instead of 10 & 6.

Sure he made a bad judgment call but who of us haven't? I don't have a bullet hole in my leg but do have a hole in my head. Both results of a bad decision.

From the bidness side though with his accrued seasons in the league puts him in the little less than (or is it 'then':kitten:) a mill a season. Is he worth it for his role and if he is can we afford him? Real question.

HOU-TEX
06-27-2012, 09:00 AM
I'm in agreement with those who say he's worth the shot. I can think of one game where had he been there instead of Jacoby it's a W instead of a L. Yes, the Raiders game with 8 ticks left. I have all the confidence in the world that had he been behind the defender instead of #12 we'd have witnessed a fade to the corner a lob and a leap. Red zone completion, touchdown and game over. 11 & 5 instead of 10 & 6.

Sure he made a bad judgment call but who of us haven't? I don't have a bullet hole in my leg but do have a hole in my head. Both results of a bad decision.

From the bidness side though with his accrued seasons in the league puts him in the little less than (or is it 'then':kitten:) a mill a season. Is he worth it for his role and if he is can we afford him? Real question.

Pun intended?

:bravo:

Texn4life
06-27-2012, 09:00 AM
He was kind of a knucklehead for a couple of years with the Giants when he was fined every week for something it seems like. But being locked up will change a man. The thing I worry about with him is will he be content with not seeing the ball a lot? We run only so many plays on offense a game. Arian is going to see his 20 plus touches a game, Tate 10, Andre 5-10, OD, Walter, and you also have to get at least 1 or 2 of the young guys some extensive same experience.

If he understands that he may only see 2-5 balls thrown his way a game then I'm all for it. If he thinks he'd be coming here to catch 75 plus passes then it probably won't be a good fit.

SheTexan
06-27-2012, 09:13 AM
Gma... BTW, I miss you darlin' through this brutal offseason (missing ALL my beloveds from Blue Crew and/or "the Bull Pen").... EFF it, give it a shot,NO???

Miss ya too Bill!! This off season has been the worst one so far, IMHO. Hope to see a lot of my Blue Crew boys and gals at TC, if I'm up to going this year. Gettin OLD and this heat takes it's toll! BUT, if they sign PB I'll make a point to be there. For some dumb reason I have a good feeling about him. BUT, I'll believe it when I actually see it!! I hope they give him a shot! :)

drs23
06-27-2012, 09:21 AM
Pun intended?

:bravo:

Pretty sharp this early in the morn Hou-Tex!

rep :D

drs23
06-27-2012, 09:25 AM
Miss ya too Bill!! This off season has been the worst one so far, IMHO. Hope to see a lot of my Blue Crew boys and gals at TC, if I'm up to going this year. Gettin OLD and this heat takes it's toll! BUT, if they sign PB I'll make a point to be there. For some dumb reason I have a good feeling about him. BUT, I'll believe it when I actually see it!! I hope they give him a shot! :)

There's that word again. :D

steelbtexan
06-27-2012, 09:28 AM
Very true, BUT, he has been labeled as a trouble maker. Fans are fickle!

A troublemaker who was a WR1 that caught the game winning TD in the SB.

Nah, he's not a Rick/Gary kind of guy.

Texan_Bill
06-27-2012, 09:31 AM
What did Plax do beside shoot HIMSELF? Nothing for anyone to forgive.

Ummmmm, domestic violence? :thinking:

blanco2424
06-27-2012, 09:46 AM
Here is really the only input about it. He just made a comment on the Texans. Nothing confirmed.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/25205/plaxico-burress-like-the-texans

You know the media, take it and run with it......All though I would be all for it!

GP
06-27-2012, 09:47 AM
A troublemaker who was a WR1 that caught the game winning TD in the SB.

Nah, he's not a Rick/Gary kind of guy.

Randy Moss is an example of what happens when good players find ways to limit their own success with new teams.

With the Patriots and Titans, Randy Moss blew it big time.

Burress could come here and fall apart trying to learn the offense and being forced to play within its limits. He could just as easily do really well, though, but still...it's not a lock that the guy comes here and picks up the offense and performs as well as some think.

And nobody knows that his asking price is low all of a sudden. I thought that there was a vet minimum anyways, which means he's not going to be had for a few hundred thousand dollars like rookies are.

GP
06-27-2012, 09:49 AM
Here is really the only input about it. He just made a comment on the Texans. Nothing confirmed.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/25205/plaxico-burress-like-the-texans

You know the media, take it and run with it......All though I would be all for it!

Not picking on you or anything, but when you said "He just made a comment on the Texans" it might come off to some readers here that he literally JUST made a comment about the Texans.

I thought that very thing, went to the blog entry and saw it was from July 2011.

Going to be hard for the Texans to spend that money on him when we have only $4 million of cap space. We need that money for emergency moves if we need a replacement due to freak injury over the summer or early reg season.

SheTexan
06-27-2012, 09:56 AM
Ummmmm, domestic violence? :thinking:


Hummmmm! That kinda reminds me of someone else who made it BIG in pro-football, even made the HOF! Not gonna mention a name cause just the thought of him makes me want to puke!! BUT, just goes to say that some of these guys with a "troubled/checkered" past can still contribute a lot as a football player.

IF, PB can help take our team to the SB, and help get AJ that coveted RING we all want him to have before he retires, then give the man a chance. He definitley has the experience! JMO!

Dutchrudder
06-27-2012, 09:56 AM
Not picking on you or anything, but when you said "He just made a comment on the Texans" it might come off to some readers here that he literally JUST made a comment about the Texans.

I thought that very thing, went to the blog entry and saw it was from July 2011.

Going to be hard for the Texans to spend that money on him when we have only $4 million of cap space. We need that money for emergency moves if we need a replacement due to freak injury over the summer or early reg season.

I'm not sure how many years of service he has credited to him in the NFL, but his vet minimum price should be in the 700-900k range. In any case, if he signs for vet minimum, he will only count 540k against the cap + any signing bonus (ex. our new punter got about 60k). 540k isn't bad, but the guy needs to be worth the extra couple 100k for the club to be willing to spend it on him. In contrast, an UDFA only costs 390k, so the caphit difference is somewhat minimal. It's good to pinch pennies, but if he turns out to be a true upgrade, 150k is worth it.

This is all assuming he will take vet min, if he won't I'd pass.

infantrycak
06-27-2012, 09:58 AM
And nobody knows that his asking price is low all of a sudden. I thought that there was a vet minimum anyways, which means he's not going to be had for a few hundred thousand dollars like rookies are.

Vet minimum for him would be about $925k. If he signed for that he would be eligible for a vet exception on the cap which would make his cap hit half that.

chicagotexan2
06-27-2012, 11:10 AM
Vet minimum for him would be about $925k. If he signed for that he would be eligible for a vet exception on the cap which would make his cap hit half that.

Even better. If Cheddar Bomb can contribute, I'd take a flyer on him.

will742
06-27-2012, 01:37 PM
Even better. If Cheddar Bomb can contribute, I'd take a flyer on him.

^ This. A much better option than MSW, IMO.

GP
06-27-2012, 01:57 PM
This is all assuming he will take vet min, if he won't I'd pass.

/Thread.

He won't' sign for vet minimum. Maybe he will next year, not this year.

Some team is going to panic in camp, and they'll pay him above vet minimum.

Blake
06-27-2012, 02:09 PM
Plexi-glass? No thanks.

badboy
06-27-2012, 02:41 PM
IMO a true WR2 of his size is worth a couple million, I'd worry about needing cap for emergency when emergency occurs. WR2 is shakiest spot we have.

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2012, 02:49 PM
Keep in mind that his agent is Drew Rosenhaus.

GP
06-27-2012, 02:52 PM
Well, this much I know:

If any of us think Kubiak & Co. have NOT looked into adding Burress, either last year or as recently as today, we're fooling ourselves.

1. They've checked into it.

2. They aren't moving on Burress yet. Why?

3. He could be added today, tomorrow, next week, or even the days leading up to reg season. Who knows. Until then, 31 other teams are all discussing whether they need Burress or not....and none of them have signed him.

4. Perhaps he isn't signed yet because he is asking more than teams want to pay him? Maybe teams are waiting. Who knows.

So really this is a dead topic. Yeah, we've discussed it. Some say yes, some say no, others don't know. My only two cents into the discussion is that there has to be a financial reason why none of the 32 teams have this guy on their roster yet. Therefore, this whole idea that he'll take the vet minimum and we can handle that vet minimum amount...it's not a good argument, IMO.

To me, last year when he was throwing out the Texans name in every other comment he made to the media...he had that mindset that the Texans were an ATM...the place where guys like Ahman Green go to get royally rich. He signs with the Jets last year, and now he's not mentioning us NOW is he??? That tells me that he's priced himself out of contention here, and he knows it.

We'll never know if that's true, but if he was that pumped up about the prospects of playing here LAST year...then he would have signed with us already even if for only a 1-year deal. I think he's holding out for as much as he can get PLUS not having to report to a team and do all the team stuff (like sweating in the heat of OTAs!).

If he signs here, it will be because he came off his cloud and took less than he was asking. Or...Kubiak flinched first and felt he needed a vet because the rookies are testing his nerves with so much on the line this year.

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2012, 03:14 PM
An interesting recent radio interview:

Plaxico Burress on Teamís Interest in Signing Him: ďItís been there but itís just getting to the right fit.Ē (http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/06/19/plaxico-burress-nfl-carolina-panthers-free-agent/)
June 19, 2012 Ė 11:10 am by Chris Fedor

After two years away from the game of football, Plaxico Burress hauled in 45 catches for 645 yards and scored eight touchdowns for the New York Jets last season. However this offseason, Burress has received little to no interest from NFL teams and remains a free agent looking for his next opportunity. While Burress clearly suffered from two seasons away from the game, the 34-year-old receiver showed last year in the Big Apple that he is still a red zone threat because of his size and he still has the ability to do some damage in the passing game in the right situation. When that opportunity presents itself is really anyoneís guess but it looks like the once Super Bowl hero may have to wait for an injury to a wide receiver in a teamís training camp to get his shot, despite his constant begging.

Plaxico Burress joined WFNZ in Charlotte with the Mac Attack to talk about how he feels, whether Carolina would be his preferred destination to play in 2012, why he thinks there has been no interest in him, if he will play with a chip on his shoulder in 2012 given how little interest he has received this offseason, if he thinks he will be better this year than he was last year and what he would say to the people that think he would disrupt the chemistry in a teamís locker room.

How he feels this offseason:

ďI feel great. Last year I was really just trying to get my legs under me from the two year layoff and I think people are going to be surprised by the shape Iím in. I got my spring back and Iím just waiting and I think everyone else will see for themselves.Ē

If Carolina is his preferred destination to play in 2012:

ďNo doubt about it. My brother lives right there in Charlotte, my cousin lives there in Charlotte and all my family is there in Columbia, South Carolina. It would just be a great situation all the way around and being close to everybody. Not just that but playing with Cam (Newton) who I think is one of the top five quarterbacks in all of football and as long as I can remember Steve Smith has been one of my favorites. I just think itís a great situation.Ē

Why he thinks there hasnít been a strong interest in him this offseason:

ďItís been there but itís just getting to the right fit. Iíve been around and I understand the game from a mental standpoint, Iím very knowledgeable about the guys out there that are playing. I know what they do well and what they donít do well and I just want to put myself in a position to go out and have success and to go out and make guys around me better. And obviously play with a quarterback who can really play the position. Itís about me picking my spots and seeing where Iím a good fit. You just look at a situation like Carolina and you canít come across a better situation than that. Playing with Steve Smith, who is a guy that demands a double team, you look at a guy like Greg Olsen getting up and down the seams and you put a guy like me on the back side and teams have trouble saying Ďwho are we going to cover? Who are we going to double?í Iíve been playing this game for a long time and it comes down to matchups. You put guys in one-on-one situations and guys win. Itís a place that I would love to come play and we will see what happens.Ē

Whether he will play with a chip on his shoulder this season towards the Panthers if they donít sign him:

ďNo itís not just directed at one team. When youíre a competitor, when youíre a football player, me I challenge myself to prove to myself that I can still go out and play this game at a high level which I know I can. I went out and scored eight touchdowns last year. Iím going to be better than that this year. Teams havenít seen me, what kind of shape Iím in, havenít seen me workout and all I keep doing is going and going, I have my legs back and everybody is going to be in for a pleasant surprise when I hit the football field this year.Ē

If he thinks he can play better than he did last season:

ďThereís no doubt about it. I did those things on the football field last year after being out of football for two years and I didnít have a preseason, I twisted my ankle the first day of camp, played three quarters of football going into the season after being out for two years and there I am starting on Sunday night playing football with four catches and a touchdown so I feel great. Iím just looking for the opportunity to get back on the field and show that I can still do it and do it at a high level.Ē

What he would say to the people that believe he would disrupt team chemistry:

ďWhen youíre talking about chemistry all I want to do is run up and down the field, catch footballs, score touchdowns, have fun and make an impact, go out and be consistent and help the guys around me. As far as people saying they donít want me to come there because Iím going to mess things up then everyone is entitled to their opinion. They do what they do for a living and I do what I do for a living. You can ask any of the guys Iíve ever played with about being a guy in the locker room that everybody likes and treated everybody the same, thatís who I am. For the people saying those things, maybe they donít know me and being their job and what they do, I donít know them.Ē

The Pencil Neck
06-27-2012, 05:08 PM
At this point, he just wants a job... and to get paid. I bet you could ask him about every single team out there and he'd be able to give you reasons why he'd be a good fit and why he'd like to be there.

I wouldn't hate having him here because I think he'd give us a better season than several of our young guys. I don't think he'd push KW out of the #2 spot.

Norg
06-27-2012, 07:15 PM
i think we got good WR on our team alread Maybe Lestar Can blow up and i would just rather roll woth POsey and save some money LOL

POSey is prob better them him anywayz

D1DAVE
06-27-2012, 07:34 PM
Ok. Number one. Hate his notorious rep. Number two. Love to have him here to add to WR depth. Number three. He is probably asking for more money than he deserves. He wont sign here because of the money.

Dutchrudder
06-27-2012, 07:48 PM
/Thread.

He won't' sign for vet minimum. Maybe he will next year, not this year.

Some team is going to panic in camp, and they'll pay him above vet minimum.

How do you know what he's asking? The dude is 34 and had an average season on a team with an average QB. He really shouldn't garner more than vet min plus incentives.

thunderkyss
06-27-2012, 07:53 PM
Could this be our vet? Had a restful couple of years in jail and still showed something last year with a pretty pitiful QB. I'm sure McNair would insist that his contract reads, "I promise not to carry a firearm, especially into a bar. But if I do, I promise to wear a bulletproof cup to protect my performance-based testosterone."

CnD...... this is Texas. Just make sure he keeps the safety on.

:texan:

thunderkyss
06-27-2012, 08:03 PM
I have wanted him for a vet minimum deal since before free agency started. He warrants coverage across from AJ, and that's really all we need.

The only thing that worries me, is that he's 35. At that age, you might have it one day, & not the next. If he comes into camp & can still run a 4.5 forty, I'd sign him. But what are the odds......

He would help open up the run game and provide a big target for the QB. I believe he would be a great #3 or 4 WR that could help this team. Give him a chance and drop Dwight Jones off the roster if needed. He has been waiting long enough, I'm sure he will be cheap now.

a 3 or 4.. in this offense? He's not much good for Andre unless he's pushing Walter for playing time...... at #2. If he can't do that, I'd just as soon get the kids (Keshawn & DeVier) out there & let them compete for Walters job.

thunderkyss
06-27-2012, 08:11 PM
IMO a true WR2 of his size is worth a couple million, I'd worry about needing cap for emergency when emergency occurs. WR2 is shakiest spot we have.

I agree with that. If Plax can be a true #2 WR for us, that would be like getting Jjo & D-Man all over again.

Heck I'd nominate Rick Smith for exec of the year.

But if we sign him & he ends up with 3-4 WR production...... I'd get the Pink Soap...

Texan_Bill
06-27-2012, 08:17 PM
He would help open up the run game and provide a

Hey my brother, I'm pretty sure the run game is not where we need help. Where need help is another deep threat receiver to take away from double and in times triple teams on Dre...

Is Plax that guy?? I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure his persona as an "alpha dog" falls short of being second fiddle to Dre. Let's look inward to recent draft choices including Jeff Maehl (sp?) or Posey... Yes???

thunderkyss
06-27-2012, 08:18 PM
At this point, he just wants a job... and to get paid. I bet you could ask him about every single team out there and he'd be able to give you reasons why he'd be a good fit and why he'd like to be there.

I wouldn't hate having him here because I think he'd give us a better season than several of our young guys. I don't think he'd push KW out of the #2 spot.

Did KDub catch 8 TDs last season? 612 yards? 13 ypc?

Texan_Bill
06-27-2012, 08:37 PM
Did KDub catch 8 TDs last season? 612 yards? 13 ypc?

TK... Completely different situations.. At the end of the day, YOU know that. Quit trying to make that comparison!!

Seriously, Plax would be (at best) a third option in this offense and every defense would know it.. That said, it might could open up things..... Highly unlikely though.

thunderkyss
06-27-2012, 08:54 PM
TK... Completely different situations.. At the end of the day, YOU know that. Quit trying to make that comparison!!

Seriously, Plax would be (at best) a third option in this offense and every defense would know it.. That said, it might could open up things..... Highly unlikely though.

The only reason he'd be third on this team, would be if the accusations about Kubiak are true & he goes with KDub for something other than a football reason. Granted Plax can play as well as he did last year.

Was KDub a better receiver than Plax in 2011?

I don't think so & I think we should have got Plax last season. Instead of hoping Jacoby would leap-frog Walter in a pinch.

We'd have been playing Baltimore @ home & Jj would have been running to mama instead of muffing punts.

KDub isn't fast, he isn't tall, doesn't have a knack for getting open. His only selling point is that he blocks as good as Jacoby does except much closer to the LOS.

The Pencil Neck
06-27-2012, 08:57 PM
An offense with Dre on one side, Plax on the other, KW in the slot, Casey/OD lined up as full back and then motioning out to the slot, with Arian at RB, and Matt at QB? Dre and Plax stretch the defense to the breaking point and then KW/Casey/OD/Arian rip its heart out.

I would not mind that.

dalemurphy
06-27-2012, 09:08 PM
If the Texans sign him to anything more than the veteran minimum, he is likely to cost them, roughly, a 5th round compensatory pick in next year's draft... I'm sure that is an issue if they have interest in bringing him in.

CloakNNNdagger
06-27-2012, 09:17 PM
From Sporting News:

Expendables? Plaxico Burress, Terrell Owens among five big-name free agents desperate for work (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-06-27/plaxico-burress-terrell-owens-cedric-benson-mcnabb-five-big-name-nfl-free-agents)

steelbtexan
06-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Randy Moss is an example of what happens when good players find ways to limit their own success with new teams.

With the Patriots and Titans, Randy Moss blew it big time.

Burress could come here and fall apart trying to learn the offense and being forced to play within its limits. He could just as easily do really well, though, but still...it's not a lock that the guy comes here and picks up the offense and performs as well as some think.

And nobody knows that his asking price is low all of a sudden. I thought that there was a vet minimum anyways, which means he's not going to be had for a few hundred thousand dollars like rookies are.

Yeah kind of like T.O. when he moved from the 49ers to Philly.

Didn't Philly make the SB T.O. 1st yr in Philly. We dont need somebody like that.

And no I dont want the Texans to sign T.O.

ChampionTexan
06-27-2012, 10:04 PM
If the Texans sign him to anything more than the veteran minimum, he is likely to cost them, roughly, a 5th round compensatory pick in next year's draft... I'm sure that is an issue if they have interest in bringing him in.

The period for determining compensatory picks has come and gone. Anyone signed by the Texans (or any other NFL team for that matter) on June 1st or later will have no impact on the compensatory pick calculations. For this reason, neither Alan Ball nor Justion Forsett have any potential to negatively impact those picks.

badboy
06-27-2012, 10:26 PM
An offense with Dre on one side, Plax on the other, KW in the slot, Casey/OD lined up as full back and then motioning out to the slot, with Arian at RB, and Matt at QB? Dre and Plax stretch the defense to the breaking point and then KW/Casey/OD/Arian rip its heart out.

I would not mind that.I see the bolded not so much OD at FB. Don't see Kubes risking injury to his QBs without a big FB blocking.

The Pencil Neck
06-27-2012, 10:31 PM
I see the bolded not so much OD at FB. Don't see Kubes risking injury to his QBs without a big FB blocking.

Huh? We did this all the time last year. Line up OD in the backfield and then motion him out and go without a FB blocking. We also did the opposite, lining OD up outside and then bringing him into the backfield lined up like a FB. Kubes does lots of stuff like that.

Dutchrudder
06-27-2012, 10:38 PM
Hey my brother, I'm pretty sure the run game is not where we need help. Where need help is another deep threat receiver to take away from double and in times triple teams on Dre...

Is Plax that guy?? I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure his persona as an "alpha dog" falls short of being second fiddle to Dre. Let's look inward to recent draft choices including Jeff Maehl (sp?) or Posey... Yes???

He helps the run game by requiring the defense to cover him. Jacoby was never able to do that, and I don't think they will be scared of KW. Put a 6'5 Plaxico on the opposite side of AJ, and the opposing safeties will be watching for the pass, not the run. A guy that big is tough for a 5'10 CB to cover. KW would be in the slot, which I think is a good spot for him.

The only thing that worries me, is that he's 35. At that age, you might have it one day, & not the next. If he comes into camp & can still run a 4.5 forty, I'd sign him. But what are the odds......


a 3 or 4.. in this offense? He's not much good for Andre unless he's pushing Walter for playing time...... at #2. If he can't do that, I'd just as soon get the kids (Keshawn & DeVier) out there & let them compete for Walters job.

It really doesn't cost the team much to bring him in on a vet minimum deal for at least training camp. I think a vet like him would be more useful in the passing game than a couple rookies.

badboy
06-27-2012, 10:39 PM
Huh? We did this all the time last year. Line up OD in the backfield and then motion him out and go without a FB blocking. We also did the opposite, lining OD up outside and then bringing him into the backfield lined up like a FB. Kubes does lots of stuff like that.Uh, Kubes coming back with foot injury after missing several games. I stand by my statement.

thunderkyss
06-28-2012, 08:33 AM
Uh, Kubes coming back with foot injury after missing several games. I stand by my statement.

I don't care what the situation is with Kubes foot. You will see several formations where there is only a halfback in the backfield. Arian & Ben aren't chopped liver in pass pro, they know their job.

Premier
06-28-2012, 08:52 AM
Even better. If Cheddar Bomb can contribute, I'd take a flyer on him.

cheddar bomb?? lol sounds like a dish at chili's...

its chedder bob...

GP
06-28-2012, 08:59 AM
How do you know what he's asking? The dude is 34 and had an average season on a team with an average QB. He really shouldn't garner more than vet min plus incentives.

If he's the WR you think he is, the guy he's being built up as, then why isn't he already on one of the 32 NFL teams by now?

Answer: His asking price.

CloakNNNdagger
06-28-2012, 09:04 AM
If he's the WR you think he is, the guy he's being built up as, then why isn't he already on one of the 32 NFL teams by now?

Answer: His asking price.

Again, Rosenhaus.:kitten:

HOU-TEX
06-28-2012, 09:09 AM
If the Texans sign him to anything more than the veteran minimum, he is likely to cost them, roughly, a 5th round compensatory pick in next year's draft... I'm sure that is an issue if they have interest in bringing him in.

Seriously? lol. I highly doubt it. Teams don't shy away from making moves due to possible loss of comp picks the following year. I'd be surprised if a team even mention comp picks until the season was over with.

GP
06-28-2012, 09:10 AM
Yeah kind of like T.O. when he moved from the 49ers to Philly.

Didn't Philly make the SB T.O. 1st yr in Philly. We dont need somebody like that.

And no I dont want the Texans to sign T.O.

The main debate is really the asking price of Burress.

If he's this all-world guy who would help any team out there, then there's a reason he's not on one of those teams: Asking price.

Either that, or teams don't think he has the goods anymore.

FR0497
06-28-2012, 10:12 AM
I was hoping they would have signed him last year. If he's not asking for an outrageous contract I think it would be good to give him a shot. This guy make some incredible catches last year for the Jets.

badboy
06-28-2012, 10:40 AM
I don't care what the situation is with Kubes foot. You will see several formations where there is only a halfback in the backfield. Arian & Ben aren't chopped liver in pass pro, they know their job.That is not what I think you said. You indicated you wanted OD or Casey to be the FB. I don't like that as in many situations the defense will blitz and I don't want either of those having to pick up blitz. For that matter, until Matt is more certain I want a big old FB not a h-back blocking. Most of us agree Schaub being healthy is key to a deep playoff drive. Why put him at risk?

texanchris
06-28-2012, 10:56 AM
if he is signed, would he replace Walter as the #2 wr or become the #3 slot receiver? I feel like the wr in the slot should be a speedy fast guy who can stretch the field of play.

thunderkyss
06-28-2012, 11:29 AM
If he's this all-world guy who would help any team out there, then there's a reason he's not on one of those teams: Asking price.



That's fine. The longer this plays out, the better for us.

That is not what I think you said. You indicated you wanted OD or Casey to be the FB. I don't like that as in many situations the defense will blitz and I don't want either of those having to pick up blitz. For that matter, until Matt is more certain I want a big old FB not a h-back blocking. Most of us agree Schaub being healthy is key to a deep playoff drive. Why put him at risk?

first, wasn't me.


second, what he did say was that Casey/OD would line up as the FB, then motion out to the slot. This will almost guarantee that you'll take someone out of an 8 or 7 man front.

He went on to say that OD & Casey have both played from the FB position & I in particular have no apprehensions about them picking up the blitz anyway.

Texn4life
06-28-2012, 12:04 PM
The main debate is really the asking price of Burress.

If he's this all-world guy who would help any team out there, then there's a reason he's not on one of those teams: Asking price.

Either that, or teams don't think he has the goods anymore.

I would like to know who thinks he's an all world guy. I think at this point in his career most would agree that he's solid, with the potential of showing great flashes at certain times.

The Pencil Neck
06-28-2012, 12:36 PM
That is not what I think you said. You indicated you wanted OD or Casey to be the FB. I don't like that as in many situations the defense will blitz and I don't want either of those having to pick up blitz. For that matter, until Matt is more certain I want a big old FB not a h-back blocking. Most of us agree Schaub being healthy is key to a deep playoff drive. Why put him at risk?

First off, it was me and not TK.

Second, having the TE line up as FB and then motion out or line up outside and motion in are both integral parts of this offense that Kubiak has employed since day 1. If Schaub isn't up to that, then Schaub won't be on the field.

You might want to have a big personal-protector FB to keep Schaub safe, but there's no way Kubiak will play that game.

thunderkyss
06-28-2012, 12:43 PM
I would like to know who thinks he's an all world guy. I think at this point in his career most would agree that he's solid, with the potential of showing great flashes at certain times.

I agree.

and add.......

The odds of Plaxico Burress filling in as a productive #1 (in the event Andre is out) are much greater than KDub or anyone else on our roster at this moment.

badboy
06-28-2012, 12:44 PM
First off, it was me and not TK.

Second, having the TE line up as FB and then motion out or line up outside and motion in are both integral parts of this offense that Kubiak has employed since day 1. If Schaub isn't up to that, then Schaub won't be on the field.

You might want to have a big personal-protector FB to keep Schaub safe, but there's no way Kubiak will play that game.apology if needed as I did not look at the name just responded to post. I think Schaub must be protected much more this season than last so any scheme we ran with him last season should be tweeked to keep our best QB by far on the field. To say we run exact same protection scheme as last season pre-injury does not make sense to me nor does saying if Matt cannot perform as he did pre-Lisfranc he should not be on the field. A 75% Matt Schaub is still better than TJ and I like the kid.

The Pencil Neck
06-28-2012, 12:47 PM
apology if needed as I did not look at the name just responded to post. I think Schaub must be protected much more this season than last so any scheme we ran with him last season should be tweeked to keep our best QB by far on the field. To say we run exact same protection scheme as last season pre-injury does not make sense to me nor does saying if Matt cannot perform as he did pre-Lisfranc he should not be on the field. A 75% Matt Schaub is still better than TJ and I like the kid.

If you have to radically change the whole concept of your offense to protect 1 player, then you have to move on from that player. And keeping a true FB on the field on passing downs to be able to pick up blitzes is a major departure from the concept of the offense.

It's not going to happen.

thunderkyss
06-28-2012, 12:54 PM
apology if needed as I did not look at the name just responded to post. I think Schaub must be protected much more this season than last so any scheme we ran with him last season should be tweeked to keep our best QB by far on the field. To say we run exact same protection scheme as last season pre-injury does not make sense to me nor does saying if Matt cannot perform as he did pre-Lisfranc he should not be on the field. A 75% Matt Schaub is still better than TJ and I like the kid.

Still doesn't matter. What he explained is a ploy designed to force the defense out of a called blitz, or provide a quick, easy dump-off in the face of a blitz.

If Schaub does not recognize the blitz & there's an open OD/Casey, or OD on a smaller DB mismatch... that's on Schaub.

Besides, Arian Foster or Ben Tate will still be back there to pick up the blitz... our FBs haven't really been a big part of our pass coverage, not so much to say that they're better options than either OD or Casey back there.

JB
06-28-2012, 02:16 PM
That is not what I think you said. You indicated you wanted OD or Casey to be the FB. I don't like that as in many situations the defense will blitz and I don't want either of those having to pick up blitz. For that matter, until Matt is more certain I want a big old FB not a h-back blocking. Most of us agree Schaub being healthy is key to a deep playoff drive. Why put him at risk?

You're rarely going to see a FB in the game for most passing plays. Perhaps on early downs early in the game

GP
06-28-2012, 03:35 PM
I would like to know who thinks he's an all world guy. I think at this point in his career most would agree that he's solid, with the potential of showing great flashes at certain times.

The ones who are clamoring for us to get him.

He'd be here already if he was as important as some think he is. Unless he is asking too much, which is my assertion as to why he's not here nor on any other of the 31 NFL teams right now.

Why do the Texans have to be the schmucks who overpay for him? I thought those days were behind us.

All of this is for naught. Some team will flinch and pay him more than vet minimum. Happens all the time, everybody's just sort of sitting around waiting to see who flinches first.

Texecutioner
06-28-2012, 05:05 PM
The ones who are clamoring for us to get him.

He'd be here already if he was as important as some think he is. Unless he is asking too much, which is my assertion as to why he's not here nor on any other of the 31 NFL teams right now.

Why do the Texans have to be the schmucks who overpay for him? I thought those days were behind us.

All of this is for naught. Some team will flinch and pay him more than vet minimum. Happens all the time, everybody's just sort of sitting around waiting to see who flinches first.

We need to improve this receiving core big time. We are in that small window where he can potentially win a SB, so making those extra moves to "win now" is essential. Do you honestly think that our WR core isn't in need of a vast improvement?

Texn4life
06-28-2012, 05:34 PM
The ones who are clamoring for us to get him.

He'd be here already if he was as important as some think he is. Unless he is asking too much, which is my assertion as to why he's not here nor on any other of the 31 NFL teams right now.

Why do the Texans have to be the schmucks who overpay for him? I thought those days were behind us.

All of this is for naught. Some team will flinch and pay him more than vet minimum. Happens all the time, everybody's just sort of sitting around waiting to see who flinches first.

It's a good possibility that he may be asking for 3+ million dollars a year right now. But honestly can you blame him? He missed out on millions after being locked up for 2 years. I doubt that the Texans would pay him any more than 1.5m if they were interested though so I don't think you have to worry about that.

But I really don't think anyone thinks the guy an all world player right now. I think there are people who respect his ability to help us in certain aspects, but I don't think anyone would confuse him with Andre, Calvin Johnson, or Fitz who are truly all world.

thunderkyss
06-28-2012, 07:07 PM
Why do the Texans have to be the schmucks who overpay for him? I thought those days were behind us.

All of this is for naught. Some team will flinch and pay him more than vet minimum. Happens all the time, everybody's just sort of sitting around waiting to see who flinches first.

& that's fine. No one here has said anything about paying him more than the vet minimum.

Well maybe they have, but it's not the majority opinion of the people saying they want him here.

If he goes somewhere else for more money, more power to the brother.

No harm, no foul...... this is a message board, & this is what we do.

welsh texan
06-29-2012, 08:07 AM
I'd love to see Plaxico in a Texans uni, he's a one big mistake kind of guy who can be productive for us, and that surely is more important than any character concern. Don't forget that had he done what he went to prison for in Texas, he'd have been labelled an idiot rather than a criminal.

The only doubt in my mind is whether Kubiak really wants a second playmaking receiver in his offense, or, as has been suggested in the thread about Walters' value, he prefers to have his second guy clearing space for his TE's and running game.

They say a rookie receiver, in general, doesn't truly get up to speed until year 3, our O seems complicated for young receivers, so the likes of DeVier & co, regardless of talent, aren't guys I'd like us to rely on next season, Burress might be a good short term option.

Also, what does overpaying look like if he comes in and improves the team? We overpaid for what we got out of AJ last season, were we schmuks for handing him his massive contract? I don't think so, so what if its a little above minimum, so long as it isn't guaranteed and we can get shot (pardon the pun) if it doesn't pan out.

GP
06-29-2012, 09:18 AM
We need to improve this receiving core big time. We are in that small window where he can potentially win a SB, so making those extra moves to "win now" is essential. Do you honestly think that our WR core isn't in need of a vast improvement?

What I think or you think seems to not be a concern of Kubiak.

For whatever reason, he hasn't put the amount of firepower at WR that we all would like him to.

So this year I've come to the conclusion that Gary is fundamentally and unequivocally OK with having what appears to be a low key WR unit, preferring to let the run game and TEs and AJ eat most of the snaps.

The WR2 on a Kubiak team will perhaps never be the pass catching TD machine we'd like it to be. That's why perhaps Burress is not as needed as some think him to be.

welsh texan
06-29-2012, 09:35 AM
What I think or you think seems to not be a concern of Kubiak.

For whatever reason, he hasn't put the amount of firepower at WR that we all would like him to.

So this year I've come to the conclusion that Gary is fundamentally and unequivocally OK with having what appears to be a low key WR unit, preferring to let the run game and TEs and AJ eat most of the snaps.

The WR2 on a Kubiak team will perhaps never be the pass catching TD machine we'd like it to be. That's why perhaps Burress is not as needed as some think him to be.

I've said it before once but I think it will be very interesting to see what Kubes does when Andre is done. Dre is the only guy on our team who isn't a Kubiak pick now, we've never seen him go after a top line wideout, and he's never had to because of AJ, will we see him wait until he hits some value in the mid-late rounds or will he go for a #1 pick WR to keep things the same.

As far as Kubes' favoured personnel choices, its the last unknown for me, we know he's willing to wait for value at RB, OL, sign TE's until he hits the right guy, and prefers to draft high on D to cover his coaching inability on that side of the ball (which may now change, although I doubt Wade sticks around for that long). We also know he's willing to spend big on his QB when necessary.

We all know he's happy with a good route runner who can block at WR2, what does he look for in a WR1 if he doesn't have one of the best talents of all time *forced* on him? We just can't tell.

Dread-Head
06-29-2012, 12:34 PM
Add Plaxico to Johnson, Schaub, Foster...and that DEFENSE...and all I can say is:

Super Bowl!!!! :trophy:

GP
06-29-2012, 01:39 PM
I've said it before once but I think it will be very interesting to see what Kubes does when Andre is done. Dre is the only guy on our team who isn't a Kubiak pick now, we've never seen him go after a top line wideout, and he's never had to because of AJ, will we see him wait until he hits some value in the mid-late rounds or will he go for a #1 pick WR to keep things the same.

As far as Kubes' favoured personnel choices, its the last unknown for me, we know he's willing to wait for value at RB, OL, sign TE's until he hits the right guy, and prefers to draft high on D to cover his coaching inability on that side of the ball (which may now change, although I doubt Wade sticks around for that long). We also know he's willing to spend big on his QB when necessary.

We all know he's happy with a good route runner who can block at WR2, what does he look for in a WR1 if he doesn't have one of the best talents of all time *forced* on him? We just can't tell.

Agree with EVERYTHING up there ^^^^.

+1000

badboy
06-29-2012, 01:49 PM
WHomever is the #2 WR does not have to be really good just offer a target and be able to open up other players.

Texn4life
06-29-2012, 02:10 PM
I think when Kubiak thinks of receivers he looks at how he won in Denver. While Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey were really good in that system, I doubt anyone would step out there and say they were elite. They came off as blue collar guys who knew how to get open. It seems like that's the kind of receivers that Kubs is drawn to.

thunderkyss
06-29-2012, 02:54 PM
I think when Kubiak thinks of receivers he looks at how he won in Denver. While Rod Smith and Ed McCaffrey were really good in that system, I doubt anyone would step out there and say they were elite. They came off as blue collar guys who knew how to get open. It seems like that's the kind of receivers that Kubs is drawn to.

I think Rod Smith is elite & actually think he is the guy Andre reminds me most of.

But as far as what Kubiak is looking for in WRs, or why our WR pool is so low, it is because Andre is so good. WR has been a need for a while, that's why we drafted Jacoby Jones. Darkhorse, long-shot..... whatever. We didn't have a #1 to spend on a WR, we didn't have a #2. They took a shot at someone they thought they could mold & it just didn't work. Jacoby is not that guy.

We took a shot with some talented UDFAs last year, none of them could stay healthy through camp.

But Kubiak's been working to improve a bottom quartile defense since he's got here & has been using the majority of his high draft picks & FA dollars to do so.

He's been making us lemon aid with the lemons he's had to deal with on offense.

Wade Phillips was a great higher in my mind, because I thought with a guy of that caliber, he could do the same as Kubiak on the offensive side & not need the best talent available at every position.

However, losing Mario, there was no doubt in my mind we'd go DE with the first over-all (DE, OLB, pass-rusher, you know what I mean).

Otherwise, I'm sure we'd have got the best available WR with that pick. Not that I have a problem with the guys we've got, I think Smithiak did a good job hedging their bets. We've still got the guys who we thought could do something from last year, but got hurt, then they got us two more through the draft, then brought in more UDFAs....

No doubt in my mind they feel the same way we do about WR #2

Texn4life
06-29-2012, 03:22 PM
I think Rod Smith is elite & actually think he is the guy Andre reminds me most of.

But as far as what Kubiak is looking for in WRs, or why our WR pool is so low, it is because Andre is so good. WR has been a need for a while, that's why we drafted Jacoby Jones. Darkhorse, long-shot..... whatever. We didn't have a #1 to spend on a WR, we didn't have a #2. They took a shot at someone they thought they could mold & it just didn't work. Jacoby is not that guy.

We took a shot with some talented UDFAs last year, none of them could stay healthy through camp.

But Kubiak's been working to improve a bottom quartile defense since he's got here & has been using the majority of his high draft picks & FA dollars to do so.

He's been making us lemon aid with the lemons he's had to deal with on offense.

Wade Phillips was a great higher in my mind, because I thought with a guy of that caliber, he could do the same as Kubiak on the offensive side & not need the best talent available at every position.

However, losing Mario, there was no doubt in my mind we'd go DE with the first over-all (DE, OLB, pass-rusher, you know what I mean).

Otherwise, I'm sure we'd have got the best available WR with that pick. Not that I have a problem with the guys we've got, I think Smithiak did a good job hedging their bets. We've still got the guys who we thought could do something from last year, but got hurt, then they got us two more through the draft, then brought in more UDFAs....

No doubt in my mind they feel the same way we do about WR #2

I probably am short changing Rod Smith somewhat. He was very good for a long time in the league so saying he is elite isn't a stretch at all.

I agree pretty much with everything else you said, but still think Kubiak doesn't see receiver as a huge priority. We're probably the only team that Walter could be a starter for. For most teams he wouldn't even be a #3.

CloakNNNdagger
06-29-2012, 04:01 PM
The #2 receiver, in this offense especially, should have the potential for and should be undergoing grooming for the #1 receiver spot. With continued short-sightedness, I can just see two Kevin Walters playing opposite each other when Andre goes down and stays down. Even "next man up" requires a decent special talent to make it work.



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ETJh0qPLkxI/TJN3oHV8IaI/AAAAAAAAAAs/bZ_2d5CbYQg/s320/scrawny.jpg

They used to call me #2........not anymore!!!!!!!

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 04:36 PM
I think Rod Smith is elite & actually think he is the guy Andre reminds me most of.

What is there about AJ that reminds you of Rod Smith?

NastyNate
06-29-2012, 04:46 PM
He's gonna need a new tooth brush with all that lip service. Translation "somebody please please please give me a job"

thunderkyss
06-29-2012, 07:10 PM
What is there about AJ that reminds you of Rod Smith?

Well, there's that 80 thing. Then his no nonsense, just get it done without a bunch of lip.... For years, Smith was the man, & they couldn't stop him. & he had good size, good speed, great hands.... probably the most complete receiver of his time. & he's was just so understated for so long..... I mean "everybody" knows Andre is one of the best, but the first 5 years he was here, it's like we're the only ones who knew (for good reason).
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5jRDome29Bs/THuHIPrw-uI/AAAAAAAABm0/Y6C4wo2sV8k/s1600/Smith_Rod1_Broncos.jpg http://www.mkrob.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/andre-johnson.jpg
Well, there was that Rice guy.

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 09:08 PM
Well, there's that 80 thing. Then his no nonsense, just get it done without a bunch of lip.... For years, Smith was the man, & they couldn't stop him. & he had good size, good speed, great hands.... probably the most complete receiver of his time. & he's was just so understated for so long..... I mean "everybody" knows Andre is one of the best, but the first 5 years he was here, it's like we're the only ones who knew (for good reason).
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5jRDome29Bs/THuHIPrw-uI/AAAAAAAABm0/Y6C4wo2sV8k/s1600/Smith_Rod1_Broncos.jpg http://www.mkrob.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/andre-johnson.jpg
Well, there was that Rice guy.

Rod Smith strikes me more as Rod Tidwell (movie reference rep). He wasn't drafted, wasn't big, wasn't fast but somehow got it done.

That ain't AJ. AJ is quiet I'll give you that, but he is long, big, powerful, fast, precise. Rod Smith did run precise routes but otherwise wasn't like AJ. I rarely apply this term to NFL players but AJ is a freak. Smith was no freak even if he was very good.

Rice, Smith, Swan - nobody does this - Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26JBONuB5i8)

BullBlitz
06-29-2012, 09:19 PM
Rod Smith strikes me more as Rod Tidwell (movie reference rep). He wasn't drafted, wasn't big, wasn't fast but somehow got it done.

That ain't AJ. AJ is quiet I'll give you that, but he is long, big, powerful, fast, precise. Rod Smith did run precise routes but otherwise wasn't like AJ. I rarely apply this term to NFL players but AJ is a freak. Smith was no freak even if he was very good.

Rice, Smith, Swan - nobody does this - Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26JBONuB5i8)

It's "Swann" actually, and each of them has had different, but equally impressive athletic plays.

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 09:38 PM
It's "Swann" actually, and each of them has had different, but equally impressive athletic plays.

Thanks for nothing. But pony up where the folks I mentioned made the same kind of physical plays. AJ is distinct in that regard. Please don't bore me with one handed catches or something similar. That isn't what I was referring to although AJ has those as well.

Texecutioner
06-29-2012, 10:20 PM
Thanks for nothing. But pony up where the folks I mentioned made the same kind of physical plays. AJ is distinct in that regard. Please don't bore me with one handed catches or something similar. That isn't what I was referring to although AJ has those as well.

I've always thought the best guy to AJ especially from a physical standpoint was TO. AJ has better hands though.

beerlover
06-29-2012, 10:32 PM
I've always thought the best guy to AJ especially from a physical standpoint was TO. AJ has better hands though.

I've always thought of Andre Johnson as unique, without any direct comparables :whip:

But if you guys insist, I would say he has the work ethic of Jerry Rice, the power of Megatron & hands of Fitzgerald :toast2:

infantrycak
06-29-2012, 10:44 PM
I've always thought the best guy to AJ especially from a physical standpoint was TO. AJ has better hands though.

I have thought AJ is in the line of Irvin to TO to AJ with AJ being the fastest and most gifted of the three overall. Doesn't play the close game as well as Irvin but has better hands than TO.

thunderkyss
06-30-2012, 07:03 AM
Rod Smith strikes me more as Rod Tidwell (movie reference rep). He wasn't drafted, wasn't big, wasn't fast but somehow got it done.

Tidwell was a jerk. Rod Smith is as classy as Andre.

Rod wasn't a little guy, he was a stout 6 footer.

Rod was faster than most people thought he was... I think Andre is as well. Most people know Andre is fast, but I get the impression that they're still shocked when they see it in person.

You had me doubting myself, so I youtubed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCpeATG2qpw)Rod Smith... That just looks a lot like Andre to me.

That ain't AJ. AJ is quiet I'll give you that, but he is long, big, powerful, fast, precise. Rod Smith did run precise routes but otherwise wasn't like AJ. I rarely apply this term to NFL players but AJ is a freak. Smith was no freak even if he was very good.

Rice, Smith, Swan - nobody does this - Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26JBONuB5i8)

I'll give you that, Andre took it to another level. Andre isn't the splitting image of Rod Smith, more like Rod Smith 2.0 imo. He's a bigger, faster, stronger Rod Smith.

El Tejano
06-30-2012, 07:04 AM
AJ is AJ and teams fear him.....bottom line.

thunderkyss
06-30-2012, 07:07 AM
I've always thought the best guy to AJ especially from a physical standpoint was TO. AJ has better hands though.

I was going to go there, but didn't want to start anything.

Rod Smith = Rod Smith 1.0
Terrell Owens = Rod Smith 2.0
Andre Johnson = Rod Smith 3.0

Terrell Owens was a jerk in the Rod Tidwell sense, but the way they play.... I agree with you.

thunderkyss
06-30-2012, 07:10 AM
I have thought AJ is in the line of Irvin to TO to AJ with AJ being the fastest and most gifted of the three overall. Doesn't play the close game as well as Irvin but has better hands than TO.

See I don't think Irvin is in that same group.

He was a bully. He used his physicallity to get open, it was like watching the WWF.

& he was a jerk.

Don't get me wrong, I like Irvin, just don't really think of him & T.O. or Irvin & AJ.... I think they're completely different players.

BullBlitz
06-30-2012, 07:49 AM
Thanks for nothing. But pony up where the folks I mentioned made the same kind of physical plays. AJ is distinct in that regard. Please don't bore me with one handed catches or something similar. That isn't what I was referring to although AJ has those as well.

Yes, AJ was distinct. Just not lately.

Maybe we could get someone in here who has seen some NFL action and can play now. (Don't bore me with old clips.)

infantrycak
06-30-2012, 10:31 AM
See I don't think Irvin is in that same group.

He was a bully. He used his physicallity to get open, it was like watching the WWF.

& he was a jerk.

Don't get me wrong, I like Irvin, just don't really think of him & T.O. or Irvin & AJ.... I think they're completely different players.

Irvin played the rules of his time period. Frankly AJ would be better if he learned to do the same. He will be given deference right now. Aaron Glenn was given deference. Boy hand defended like crazy and refs didn't call it because he was subtle about it.

Something AJ and Aaron both do is is talk to the refs all the time. Flags don't fly because the are ambassadors.

Big Lou
06-30-2012, 11:42 AM
Rod Smith strikes me more as Rod Tidwell (movie reference rep). He wasn't drafted, wasn't big, wasn't fast but somehow got it done.

That ain't AJ. AJ is quiet I'll give you that, but he is long, big, powerful, fast, precise. Rod Smith did run precise routes but otherwise wasn't like AJ. I rarely apply this term to NFL players but AJ is a freak. Smith was no freak even if he was very good.

Rice, Smith, Swan - nobody does this - Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26JBONuB5i8)

I was at that game and man was it bad ass!!!! We were getting creamed and the AZ fans weren't a-holes but they were getting cocky until that happened and man it sure got quiet until the very end.

Big Lou
08-09-2012, 11:51 AM
Reports early this week about Plaxico were that he was pricing himself out of a job now this:


"According to Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Burress does not “want too much money,’’ as one person on the Steelers said last week, but merely the veteran minimum – which includes a possible salary cap benefit to a team. "



http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/28086/Plaxico-Burress-would-play-for-the-veteran-minimum/Default.aspx


Can't make up my mind on this, maybe I'm 60% for and 40% against.

281
08-09-2012, 11:56 AM
Reports early this week about Plaxico were that he was pricing himself out of a job now this:


"According to Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Burress does not ďwant too much money,íí as one person on the Steelers said last week, but merely the veteran minimum Ė which includes a possible salary cap benefit to a team. "



http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/28086/Plaxico-Burress-would-play-for-the-veteran-minimum/Default.aspx


Can't make up my mind on this, maybe I'm 60% for and 40% against.

Sorry, won't happen. Smithiak doesn't want guys like him on our team.

SheTexan
08-09-2012, 12:08 PM
Sorry, won't happen. Smithiak doesn't want guys like him on our team.

Kubes needs to have the guts to override RS and get this done. Even if we luck out and get through the season without any injuries, doubtful, he would provide some vet security. JMO!

281
08-09-2012, 12:13 PM
Kubes needs to have the guts to override RS and get this done. Even if we luck out and get through the season without any injuries, doubtful, he would provide some vet security. JMO!

I agree wholeheartedly... I'd rather have him on the team than Bryant "I've yet to earn my paycheck" Johnson.

Hervoyel
08-09-2012, 12:25 PM
Sorry, won't happen. Smithiak doesn't want guys like him on our team.

I don't think that is as "carved in stone" as it used to be. If they need him and can use him they'll go get him.

I don't think that what's keeping Burress off of the Texans boils down to him being "a guy like that". I think it's that they still believe that somebody we already have in camp will step up and sieze the opportunity. They may even be right. We really don't know yet.

They also know that if none of them step up then there will be a window later in camp when a number of veterans will be looking for work (Plaxico among them) and that if it comes down to that then a few weeks in camp won't really make a difference to that player.

GuerillaBlack
08-09-2012, 12:35 PM
To me, I think it is asking too much for rookie receivers to come in and play like multiple year veterans. It would have been nice to sign Moss, and it would be nice to sign Plax. AJ is awesome, but his injuries worry me. Plax would be a nice vet to have as the number two receiver.

JB
08-09-2012, 12:44 PM
Kubes needs to have the guts to override RS and get this done. Even if we luck out and get through the season without any injuries, doubtful, he would provide some vet security. JMO!


Do you really think Gary has the power to override the GM? Does not work like that in most franchises.

infantrycak
08-09-2012, 01:11 PM
Do you really think Gary has the power to override the GM? Does not work like that in most franchises.

I absolutely do. Remember, this GM didn't hire this HC. The HC hired the GM.

I think Kubiak takes more of a hands off attitude about having that power than most who have been given it but at the end of the day I think in a fight he wins.

Big Lou
08-09-2012, 02:04 PM
I absolutely do. Remember, this GM didn't hire this HC. The HC hired the GM.

I think Kubiak takes more of a hands off attitude about having that power than most who have been given it but at the end of the day I think in a fight he wins.

I was gonna say the same thing!!!

My concern would be if he bumped some of the youth we have, and we cut someone with potential, but we need veterans quality WR's right now!!!

Remember a couple years back whe KW arrived, everyone was cocnerned about the WR Corp, and mid year it was a position of strength. I'm hoping history repeats itself!!!!

Insideop
08-09-2012, 02:18 PM
I don't think this has anything to do with RS overriding Kubes or Kubes overriding RS. I think what is blocking Burress, or anyone else who has some kind of issue with the law, is McNair. I know McNair is mostly a "hands off" type of owner who lets Smithiak run the show for the most part, but I think they also know and understand how McNair wants to build this team and franchise. And that's with class! Now if there's a player Smithiak has to have that might not have a clean record, I'm sure they run it by "Ol Bob" for his approval, and I'm sure each one is looked at on a case by case basis. JMHO!

JB
08-09-2012, 02:47 PM
I absolutely do. Remember, this GM didn't hire this HC. The HC hired the GM.

I think Kubiak takes more of a hands off attitude about having that power than most who have been given it but at the end of the day I think in a fight he wins.

I just don't see it for a number of reasons, some which Insideop mentioned. Not unless Gary could state that the guy would give us another 3 or 4 wins.

badboy
08-09-2012, 03:05 PM
Kubiak gets what Kubiak wants. I doubt even McNair denied him much if Gary can show player is an asset.

BIG TORO
08-09-2012, 03:07 PM
610 is live with Plexico right now

GP
08-09-2012, 03:12 PM
610 is live with Plexico right now

Wow.

Tell us what is said. I don't live there and don't have time to pull it up on the Internet.

drs23
08-09-2012, 03:13 PM
One of the guys on NFL.com commented that teams are possibly waiting until after the first week of the season so his contract won't be guaranteed for the full season. Makes sense.

Posted this earlier but the dog ate it I guess, didn't show up here. :foottap:

BIG TORO
08-09-2012, 03:16 PM
Wow.

Tell us what is said. I don't live there and don't have time to pull it up on the Internet.

There still talking but it's all the basic questions and basic answers. How are you, how has your life changed, how are you a better person.

He did say the Texans have not contacted him, but he would love to be here.

GP
08-09-2012, 03:20 PM
610 radio: Have you ever been contacted by the Texans?

Plaxico: Umm.. I don't believe that I have, but all I can say is that...to have a guy like Andre and a guy like me, defenses having to double team him or double team me, it's a beautiful situation for a tight end or for a running back...for a whole offense...because it would make a defense pick their poison.

----------------

I caught THE very end of it. That's the only Texans-related comment he made at the portion I came in on. They asked him about Tebow and the Jets and I just sloughed it off and typed up my transcription (above) for the Texans-related comment Plaxico made.

What is interesting is that they asked Plaxico if he had ever been contacted by the Texans...Plaxico says "I don't believe that I have [ever been contacted by the Texans]"

GP
08-09-2012, 03:23 PM
One thing about all this...IF the Texans at some point bring Plaxico in for a workout or try to sign him, the Texans will have an easier time (IMO) negotiating with Plaxico because they have stiff-armed him for basically all of last off-season and now well into training camp.

What we're telling him is that it is up to HIM to show how bad he wants to be here, and how genuine he would be in accepting a lower $$$ contract than what Plaxico might be wanting.

In short: String the guy out, let him sit and wait...and therefore use that as leverage and tell him "This is our offer and we won't accept a counter-offer from you or your agent. Take it or leave it. We're your best shot at another run for a ring."

TexansFanatic
08-09-2012, 04:17 PM
Do you really think Gary has the power to override the GM? Does not work like that in most franchises.

You are correct that most franchises don't work that way. But the Texans are very definitely different in this regard. Remember, Kubiak essentially hired Smith --- not the other way around. This is Kubiak's team.

EDIT: Just saw infantrycak said virtually the same thing. Great minds think alike. ;-)

GP
08-09-2012, 04:29 PM
You are correct that most franchises don't work that way. But the Texans are very definitely different in this regard. Remember, Kubiak essentially hired Smith --- not the other way around. This is Kubiak's team.

See, I just don't think that's the whole truth.

To me, and if anybody has SOLID evidence to the contrary please show it, I think Rick Smith was hired because of a prior working relationship with Gary Kubiak (Broncos days) but was not hired solely because of his ties to Kubiak.

I mean, seriously, why would Bob McNair base his decision on which GM to hire based on what would make his HC the most happy??? If anything, you'd want a GM who is not emotionally tied to the HC. The two persons work together yet are separate in their duties to the team.

And folks, Rick Smith would have no problem sticking around in Houston long after Gary Kubiak has been let go or moves on for other reasons. The GM can have a lot of permanency if he handles his operational aspects very well. Coaches come and go, but a great GM can stabilize a team for decades (see: Steelers, Giants, etc.).

People give Gary Kubiak way too much consideration, IMO. Maybe I sell the guy way too short, though. All in all, I just don't think Gary Kubiak swayed Bob McNair to hire a FOK'er (Friend Of Kubiak). I don't think it was strictly because of Gary Kubiak's influence. A reason why I think that way: I seem to remember Gary Kubiak sticking with the David Carr Reclamation Project although you know damn well that there was no way in Dallas Texas (Hell) that Kubiak realllllyyyyy thought David Carr was going to be the future here. So that tells me that Bob had his own ideas back then, Kubiak is the new guy on the block back then, and I just don't see Kubiak having the sway with Bob that would get Rick Smith hired. Probably endorsed him, but not the overriding factor in Rick Smith's hiring.

I think Bob wanted an up-and-coming guy like Rick Smith, not some NFL beltway dude like Casserly who was ancient and whose glory hole years were behind him in the rearview mirror. It was just a plus that Rick had a connection to Gary, IMO.

Rick is hardcore. He's the guy who plays everyone the whole way and ends up running the show at the end of the movie. Smart, savvy in football, and I just think he'll be the Texans GM for the next 10 to 20 years. Easily. Gary? Not so much.

infantrycak
08-09-2012, 04:52 PM
A reason why I think that way: I seem to remember Gary Kubiak sticking with the David Carr Reclamation Project although you know damn well that there was no way in Dallas Texas (Hell) that Kubiak realllllyyyyy thought David Carr was going to be the future here.

Well I can't agree with this. It is far different to look at a player on tape and to actually coach them. On tape Carr had every physical ability you could want to be a star. His errors like running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage were entirely mental. A great QB coach like Kubiak could easily look at a player making bad mental decisions and think they could train them to make better ones. Didn't happen because Carr isn't dedicated and is as smart as a box of rocks.

Big Lou
08-09-2012, 05:13 PM
Well I can't agree with this. It is far different to look at a player on tape and to actually coach them. On tape Carr had every physical ability you could want to be a star. His errors like running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage were entirely mental. A great QB coach like Kubiak could easily look at a player making bad mental decisions and think they could train them to make better ones. Didn't happen because Carr isn't dedicated and is as smart as a box of rocks.

As a representative of the Box of Rocks Association, I demand an apology for that statement. You have insulted Boxes of Rocks every where for your comparison. We do not have, and have never had any association with HSWNBN.

ArlingtonTexan
08-09-2012, 05:16 PM
I think there is alot ovethinking and over wanting drama inside the Texans house. My specualtion is that McSmithiak have discussed Burress as of now made a collective decison not sign him. if there is any type of rift and power play between these guys then I hope it would not be over a Plaixo type situation. Everything that I have seen anywhere suggests that those three communicate with each versus at each other.

The Pencil Neck
08-09-2012, 05:25 PM
I don't expect us to sign Plaxico until after the first game. IF we're going to sign him.

And that, in case you were wondering, is a big 'if'.

dc_txtech
08-09-2012, 06:48 PM
Maybe they haven't signed him because he is really old and kind of a turd. Maybe that's the reason nobody has signed him at all.

I know, it seems a bit far fetched.

TimeKiller
08-09-2012, 07:20 PM
McSmithiak

What's this?!

This is the best thing to happen on tt.com since.... Smithiak!

:spin:

Carr Bombed
08-09-2012, 07:57 PM
Maybe they haven't signed him because he is really old and kind of a turd. Maybe that's the reason nobody has signed him at all.

I know, it seems a bit far fetched.

Plaxico Burress is not "really old".. He turns 35 next week, but with the prison term it's a young 35 (even without the time off 35 isn't ancient for a WR), and his game has never been about speed anyways so he's still got plenty of tread left on the tires. In limited playing time the guy had 8 TDs last season. Despite his age he's still one of the best red zone threats in the league. He's going to help out and be a asset to which ever team signs him... especially if they get him on a 1 year deal at the vet min.

TejasTom
08-09-2012, 08:23 PM
610 is live with Plexico right now

Here's the audio: Link (http://cbshouston.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/plaxico-burress-8-9-12.mp3)

dc_txtech
08-09-2012, 09:21 PM
Plaxico Burress is not "really old".. He turns 35 next week, but with the prison term it's a young 35 (even without the time off 35 isn't ancient for a WR), and his game has never been about speed anyways so he's still got plenty of tread left on the tires. In limited playing time the guy had 8 TDs last season. Despite his age he's still one of the best red zone threats in the league. He's going to help out and be a asset to which ever team signs him... especially if they get him on a 1 year deal at the vet min.

35 is really old for a WR in the NFL. And I would argue that using a prison sentence as a reason to go ahead and sign someone is not a good bargaining chip.

If he is so good why is he waiting for a call when even TO has gotten a deal?

JMO but I don't want any part of Plaxico and I think our passing game will be just fine without him.

Carr Bombed
08-09-2012, 09:55 PM
35 is really old for a WR in the NFL. And I would argue that using a prison sentence as a reason to go ahead and sign someone is not a good bargaining chip.

If he is so good why is he waiting for a call when even TO has gotten a deal?

JMO but I don't want any part of Plaxico and I think our passing game will be just fine without him.

No, 35 is not ancient or really old for a WR in the NFL, especially one who had 600 yards and 8 TDs in a limited role during his first season in a new system and playing with a crappy QB. There have been plenty of WRs who had productive seasons at that age and beyond it.

Also what are you talking about with the bargaining chips talk? You don't need a bargain chip to sign this guy.. he's going to sign for the vet min. The only reason why I brought that up was because he does have less wear than other 35 yo WRs. And let's be real here.. if the guy shot himself in the leg in any other city, he only would've gotten a ticket.

The fact that he's not signed yet doesn't mean anything either, because the fact is he WILL be on the field this season and when he is, I bet he's very productive. Also the fact that he's not signed right now is now a moot point.. The Cowboys have called him up now and are in talks with him. He's going to greatly help out there WR core.. especially in the red zone if they get him.

Oh well he could've helped us out and I'm not fine with our WR core.. It's 2010 all over again, except instead of the DB position it's the WR position. I don't like the fact that we're going to have to rely on multiple WRs who don't even have a NFL catch yet and the only other vet WR we have is Walter and Bryant Johnson doesn't count, because that guy is a ghost and a waste of a roster spot. Burress could've filled that spot and we would've actually gotten production from it. As long as B. Johnson is taking up a roster spot, I'm not fine with the receiving core. Hell Andre was out or banged up most of the year and B. Johnson couldn't even produce on a team that only had Walter and a inconsistent J.Jones in front of him. I like what I'm hearing about the rookies, but let's be real.. they're still going to be rookies.

TexansFanatic
08-09-2012, 10:41 PM
Didn't happen because Carr isn't dedicated and is as smart as a box of rocks.

You just offended boxes of rocks everywhere.

GP
08-10-2012, 09:00 AM
On my NFL News app, an article by Steve Wyche says Burress' agent Rosenhaus is in talks with Cowboys.

Signing not imminent, just preliminary talks.

Wyche at end of article says monetary demands is what has been holding teams back from pursuing Burress.

If so, then how can Cowboys be in the running for him??? I was of the impression the Cowboys were over the cap last year, so in theory they should be unable to shell out much money to a guy like Burress. Right?

ArlingtonTexan
08-10-2012, 09:44 AM
On my NFL News app, an article by Steve Wyche says Burress' agent Rosenhaus is in talks with Cowboys.

Signing not imminent, just preliminary talks.

Wyche at end of article says monetary demands is what has been holding teams back from pursuing Burress.

If so, then how can Cowboys be in the running for him??? I was of the impression the Cowboys were over the cap last year, so in theory they should be unable to shell out much money to a guy like Burress. Right?

Not hearing anything on Dallas radio that confirms this rumor.

ArlingtonTexan
08-10-2012, 09:48 AM
On my NFL News app, an article by Steve Wyche says Burress' agent Rosenhaus is in talks with Cowboys.

Signing not imminent, just preliminary talks.

Wyche at end of article says monetary demands is what has been holding teams back from pursuing Burress.

If so, then how can Cowboys be in the running for him??? I was of the impression the Cowboys were over the cap last year, so in theory they should be unable to shell out much money to a guy like Burress. Right?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/10/plaxico-high-on-cowboys-list-if-theres-an-injury/

b0ng
08-10-2012, 09:56 AM
No, 35 is not ancient or really old for a WR in the NFL, especially one who had 600 yards and 8 TDs in a limited role during his first season in a new system and playing with a crappy QB. There have been plenty of WRs who had productive seasons at that age and beyond it.

Also what are you talking about with the bargaining chips talk? You don't need a bargain chip to sign this guy.. he's going to sign for the vet min. The only reason why I brought that up was because he does have less wear than other 35 yo WRs. And let's be real here.. if the guy shot himself in the leg in any other city, he only would've gotten a ticket.

The fact that he's not signed yet doesn't mean anything either, because the fact is he WILL be on the field this season and when he is, I bet he's very productive. Also the fact that he's not signed right now is now a moot point.. The Cowboys have called him up now and are in talks with him. He's going to greatly help out there WR core.. especially in the red zone if they get him.

Oh well he could've helped us out and I'm not fine with our WR core.. It's 2010 all over again, except instead of the DB position it's the WR position. I don't like the fact that we're going to have to rely on multiple WRs who don't even have a NFL catch yet and the only other vet WR we have is Walter and Bryant Johnson doesn't count, because that guy is a ghost and a waste of a roster spot. Burress could've filled that spot and we would've actually gotten production from it. As long as B. Johnson is taking up a roster spot, I'm not fine with the receiving core. Hell Andre was out or banged up most of the year and B. Johnson couldn't even produce on a team that only had Walter and a inconsistent J.Jones in front of him. I like what I'm hearing about the rookies, but let's be real.. they're still going to be rookies.

Meh, from what I saw last year he can catch still but getting seperation is a huge issue now. And 35 is really old for a WR.

Double Barrel
08-10-2012, 10:26 AM
I absolutely do. Remember, this GM didn't hire this HC. The HC hired the GM.

I think Kubiak takes more of a hands off attitude about having that power than most who have been given it but at the end of the day I think in a fight he wins.

I agree completely. Overall, I think it's a partnership between the HC, GM, and owner. But, I think both the owner and GM defer to Kubiak, who has the actual experiences as both a player and coach on Super Bowl teams at both levels.

All anyone has to do is look at our defensive coordinator history under Kubiak. Those were Kubiak hires with McNair's blessings and Rick Smith's job to obtain them. Even with Wade, deference was to Kubiak for approval, and with their long history together, it was a no brainer.

Look at our QB situation. With the exception of Carr, who was here for a year out of respect to McNair, the rest are all Kubiak's guys. That's one of his strengths as a coach, and we are better for it.

This is clearly Kubiak's team. He clearly answers directly to the owner, not a GM. I think looking at it as a partnership is key, though. This is not a power struggle in the FO, but more of a chain of command that everyone is in agreement with the same goal.

If Kubiak wanted Plaxico to be here, he'd be here. This is Kubiak's team, and specifically his offense.

The Pencil Neck
08-10-2012, 10:42 AM
I agree completely. Overall, I think it's a partnership between the HC, GM, and owner. But, I think both the owner and GM defer to Kubiak, who has the actual experiences as both a player and coach on Super Bowl teams at both levels.

All anyone has to do is look at our defensive coordinator history under Kubiak. Those were Kubiak hires with McNair's blessings and Rick Smith's job to obtain them. Even with Wade, deference was to Kubiak for approval, and with their long history together, it was a no brainer.

Look at our QB situation. With the exception of Carr, who was here for a year out of respect to McNair, the rest are all Kubiak's guys. That's one of his strengths as a coach, and we are better for it.

This is clearly Kubiak's team. He clearly answers directly to the owner, not a GM. I think looking at it as a partnership is key, though. This is not a power struggle in the FO, but more of a chain of command that everyone is in agreement with the same goal.

If Kubiak wanted Plaxico to be here, he'd be here. This is Kubiak's team, and specifically his offense.

I concur.

There are a lot of different ways to set up a front office with all sorts of different configurations and chains of command. McNair chose Kubiak to be his guy and set up the Front Office the way Kubiak wanted. So instead of a power struggle relationship between a strong GM and a coach who wants to buy the groceries, we've got this setup where Kubiak coaches and chooses his coaches while Smith gets player "orders" from the coaches and goes out to fill those orders.

I don't even think Smith has absolute final say on exactly which guys he signs although I do think he exercises the most power in that field. If Kubiak (or Wade or McNair, for that matter) doesn't want a guy, Smith's not going to sign him. It's not going to be like the Cowboys and Parcells where Jerry signed guys without Parcells's approval and forced those guys on him.

Overall, I think it's a smooth operation and I like it.

SteveSlaton20
08-10-2012, 05:37 PM
If he can get us 8 TDs for us this season, then I'm down. Really hard to stop AJ and Plaxico, almost like Nicks and Cruz but older.

Heath Shuler
08-12-2012, 10:32 AM
Free-agent WR Plaxico Burress is flying today to New England to work out for the Patriots, the team he helped beat in SBXLII. More on ESPN.

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 11:33 AM
No thanks. Plax is older than Andre and not as good as Walter. Why would we want him taking snaps from our young receivers that simply need experience. We have talent, they just need to snaps.

Brandon420tx
08-12-2012, 11:46 AM
I could have sworn this thread from last year, let it die

Texn4life
08-12-2012, 12:45 PM
No thanks. Plax is older than Andre and not as good as Walter. Why would we want him taking snaps from our young receivers that simply need experience. We have talent, they just need to snaps.

Not as good as Walter? Please tell me you're not serious.

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 12:58 PM
Not as good as Walter? Please tell me you're not serious.

I'm dead serious. Show/tell me why I am wrong. Plax is 35 years old now and clearly has little interest from teams around the league. Walter is a better route runner, better blocker, and is more consistent. All Plax could do last year was occasionally body smaller corners. I highly doubt he will be successful doing that this year. There is a reason he is only asking for the league minimum.

No thanks. Waste of a roster spot and waste of valuable snaps.

GuerillaBlack
08-12-2012, 01:15 PM
I'm dead serious. Show/tell me why I am wrong. Plax is 35 years old now and clearly has little interest from teams around the league. Walter is a better route runner, better blocker, and is more consistent. All Plax could do last year was occasionally body smaller corners. I highly doubt he will be successful doing that this year. There is a reason he is only asking for the league minimum.

No thanks. Waste of a roster spot and waste of valuable snaps.

Oh yeah, no interest from teams around the league...except the Patriots (and Cowboys secretly, plus who knows what other teams). Plax had 8TDs and over 600 yards with Mark Sanchez throwing it to him. In this offense, he can get more production than Walter can. What he did last year with the Jets would be his floor with the Texans. I don't trust the rookies, even though a flew played nice last night (Jean with some good catches, and Martin will be a beast). Burress would just add a little more, plus good insurance when AJ is out.

They should just cut Bryant Johnson.

Texn4life
08-12-2012, 01:23 PM
I'm dead serious. Show/tell me why I am wrong. Plax is 35 years old now and clearly has little interest from teams around the league. Walter is a better route runner, better blocker, and is more consistent. All Plax could do last year was occasionally body smaller corners. I highly doubt he will be successful doing that this year. There is a reason he is only asking for the league minimum.

No thanks. Waste of a roster spot and waste of valuable snaps.

Occasionally body smaller corners? And get 8 touchdowns? Dude, take the homer glasses off. Plax stepped out of jail and had a nice year with a terrible QB. He's a great blocker in his own right. Watch Ladainian Tomlinson's long screen pass against Oakland last year.

Commodore
08-12-2012, 01:26 PM
Eli Manning and Mark Sanchez loved to go to Plax in red zone situations, exactly where we have had trouble in the past.

He's worth a look imo.

2011 TD receptions:

Plaxico Burress: 8
Kevin Walter: 3
Andre Johnson: 2

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 09:23 PM
Go to this website and look at advanced metrics for wide receivers: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr .

It will show you that Walter ranks ahead of Plax in nearly every category for the 2011 season. Plax had an abysmal 47% catch rate. That's the rate at which he actually makes a catch when he is thrown to. Walter had a 66% catch rate. Note that Plax was targeted 40% more than Walter last year. If you go to the site and read the breakdown of each metric, and then look at what Plax did last year, it will show that he was below average.

Again, explain to me how a 35 year old Plax is better than Walter right now. Walter has a multi year contract, while Plax will be lucky to sign a contract at the vet league minimum before week 1.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

Carr Bombed
08-12-2012, 09:24 PM
Meh, from what I saw last year he can catch still but getting seperation is a huge issue now. And 35 is really old for a WR.

35 is not real old for a WR on a one year deal. Nobody is asking this guy to anchor a spot for 5 years.. just one. I guess when T.O. and Driver were pulling down 1,000 yard seasons at that age they were trash too huh.

And the guy was able to seperate last year.. atleast more than K. Walter and B. Johnson. As long as those two are on the roster I don't see how anyone can roll their eyes at signing burress, because Burress is better than both of them.. yes even at the age of 35.

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 09:28 PM
35 is not real old for a WR on a one year deal. Nobody is asking this guy to anchor a spot for 5 years.. just one. I guess when T.O. and Driver were pulling down 1,000 yard seasons at that age they were trash too huh.

And the guy was able to seperate last year.. atleast more than K. Walter and B. Johnson. As long as those two are on the roster I don't see how anyone can roll their eyes at signing burress, because Burress is better than both of them.. yes even at the age of 35.

Plax was never and will never be on the level of a TO or a Donald Driver. Those two have always had greater work ethic, greater skill, and have always been more in shape. Both TO and Driver are/were absolute rats in the gym. All you have to do is look at Plax's body. Terrible comparison.

Wolf
08-12-2012, 09:34 PM
I read somewhere that the pats are looking at him

Texn4life
08-12-2012, 09:34 PM
Plax was never and will never be on the level of a TO or a Donald Driver. Those two have always had greater work ethic, greater skill, and have always been more in shape. Both TO and Driver are/were absolute rats in the gym. All you have to do is look at Plax's body. Terrible comparison.

Knowing someone who played with Plax last year I would tell you that you're wrong. Plax worked his butt off last year and from all accounts his teammates love him.

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 09:45 PM
Knowing someone who played with Plax last year I would tell you that you're wrong. Plax worked his butt off last year and from all accounts his teammates love him.

There have been reports since he was drafted in 2000 that Plax has poor work ethic. That has always been a knock on him.

Funny that you say that though, as just today a journalist was on ESPN radio talking about how he had spoken to a Jet from last year and that player basically blasted Plax's locker room attributes.

One second hand report by an ESPN journalist that goes along with previous reports on Plax vs another second hand report from a message board poster.

Even if we did pretend that he did have a fantastic work ethic, the point still stands. He will never and has never been on TO or Drivers' level. Especially in regards to being in shape.

I'd prefer Driver and even TO over Plax at this point. Although, I wouldn't even consider TO nor Plax.

BlackBeard
08-12-2012, 09:48 PM
Knowing someone who played with Plax last year I would tell you that you're wrong. Plax worked his butt off last year and from all accounts his teammates love him.

Plax always looked in pretty decent shape to me. According to ESPN the Patriots worked him out today so maybe this debate will be mute soon. Considering the Texans situation I find it hard to believe that they would not even look at him.

Texn4life
08-12-2012, 09:52 PM
There have been reports since he was drafted in 2000 that Plax has poor work ethic. That has always been a knock on him.

Funny that you say that though, as just today a journalist was on ESPN radio talking about how he had spoken to a Jet from last year and that player basically blasted Plax's locker room attributes.

One second hand report by an ESPN journalist that goes along with previous reports on Plax vs another second hand report from a message board poster.

Even if we did pretend that he did have a fantastic work ethic, the point still stands. He will never and has never been on TO or Drivers' level. Especially in regards to being in shape.

I'd prefer Driver and even TO over Plax at this point. Although, I wouldn't even consider TO nor Plax.

I can't speak for an ESPN reporter, but I'll take the word of a future HOF'er any day of the week who said Plax worked his butt off.

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 09:59 PM
I can't speak for an ESPN reporter, but I'll take the word of a future HOF'er any day of the week who said Plax worked his butt off.

A HOFer that a guy on a message board says he knows.

I'll take the word of the ESPN reporter, even if both sources are questionable in their credibility.

We are getting away from the real question here though, and that is if Plaxico Burress is good for the Texans. I will continue to say that he is not.

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 10:12 PM
Here (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8236b350/GameDay-Chargers-vs-Jets-highlights) is a video of the 3 TD catch game that Plax had against the Chargers.

Looks like terrible coverage to me by the team that was tied for 5th highest TDs given up through the air last year in the Chargers.

He had 25 yards with his 3 TDs.

The other 5 TDs:

1 against the Patriots: 2nd to last in terms of pass defense by yardage.

1 against the Bills: 3rd to last in terms of TD passes allowed.

1 against the Raiders: 2nd to last in terms of TD passes allowed.

1 against the Eagles: 9th to last in terms of TD passes allowed.

1 against the Cowboys: 10th to last in terms of TD passes allowed. 14th to last in terms of pass defense by yardage. The Cowboys were the best pass defense that he produced a TD against. Most people consider them to have been pretty bad in regards to pass defense in 2011.

I don't see him replicating the year he had last year and that year was not very good at all IMO. Not when you factor in his total targets vs his total receptions.

Texn4life
08-12-2012, 10:13 PM
A HOFer that a guy on a message board says he knows.

I'll take the word of the ESPN reporter, even if both sources are questionable in their credibility.

We are getting away from the real question here though, and that is if Plaxico Burress is good for the Texans. I will continue to say that he is not.

You don't have to believe me so by all means believe the ESPN reporter. Guys like Plax don't play 10 plus years with a piss poor work ethic though. (

drs23
08-12-2012, 10:21 PM
You don't have to believe me so by all means believe the ESPN reporter. Guys like Plax don't play 10 plus years with a piss poor work ethic though. (

Wouldn't that be more like '8 and a maybe'? :kitten:

Texn4life
08-12-2012, 10:28 PM
Wouldn't that be more like '8 and a maybe'? :kitten:

I just think people short change players in the league. I've known Ladainian Tomlinson since he was a freshman at TCU. He worked his butt off to be the player he became. He's pretty up front when it comes to teammates and he had nothing but goood things to say about Plax.

Plax didn't just magically get out of bed and become a great player in the league. The notion he's not a hard worker is silly to me. He obviously woked hard enough to do some great things in the NFL.

Carr Bombed
08-12-2012, 10:33 PM
Go to this website and look at advanced metrics for wide receivers: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr .

It will show you that Walter ranks ahead of Plax in nearly every category for the 2011 season. Plax had an abysmal 47% catch rate. That's the rate at which he actually makes a catch when he is thrown to. Walter had a 66% catch rate. Note that Plax was targeted 40% more than Walter last year. If you go to the site and read the breakdown of each metric, and then look at what Plax did last year, it will show that he was below average.

Again, explain to me how a 35 year old Plax is better than Walter right now. Walter has a multi year contract, while Plax will be lucky to sign a contract at the vet league minimum before week 1.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

:rolleyes: kevin walter had just 30 something receptions for less than 500 yards and only 3 TDs. I don't care if he's catching every pass that's thrown his way.. it's obvious he's not getting open enough to get enough passes thrown in his direction. Walter was the top WR most of the season and he still didn't come close to the production of the over the hill WR who has a poor work ethic.. despite that WR not being the top WR on his team

ArlingtonTexan
08-12-2012, 10:41 PM
I am pretty meh on Burress, as I have seen way worse ideas argued on this board. still these are last years stats on production. i will let those who care find the 35 plus year old WRs.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=WIDE_RECEIVER&season=2011&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 10:53 PM
:rolleyes: kevin walter had just 30 something receptions for less than 500 yards and only 3 TDs. I don't care if he's catching every pass that's thrown his way.. it's obvious he's not getting open enough to get enough passes thrown in his direction.

Burress had 45 catches on 97 targets. Walter had 39 catches on 59 targets. LOL, Plaxico compares well with Jacoby Jones in this regard.

What matters is how productive a guy is based on the amount of chances he gets. Efficiency is what matters in football, not raw stats.

Walter was the top WR most of the season and he still didn't come close to the production of the over the hill WR who has a poor work ethic.. despite that WR not being the top WR on his team

Plaxico was 3rd in targets for the NYJ behind Dustin Keller and Santonio Holmes last year, per ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingTargets/qualified/false/count/41), with 97 targets.

The Jets threw the ball 597 times and completed 310 passes.

Walter was 4th in targets for HOU behind Owen Daniels, Arian Foster, and Jacoby Jones, per ESPN, with 59 targets.

The Texans threw the ball 467 times and completed 288 passes.

Where do you see that Walter was ever the top WR target for the Texans in 2011? He had less targets than Jacoby Jones. The top target for Texans QBs in 2011 was Owen Daniels by a long shot. I'll take the guy that catches the ball 66% of the time it is thrown at him and is efficient when he is on the field, over the guy that only catches 47% of the passes thrown his way. I also don't understand how you can even come to the conclusion that Walter somehow had more chances, or was more of a #1 receiver than Plaxico given the stats that have already been put out in front of you before this post.

But whatever, let's pick up the guy that has barely worked out for anyone and is begging for a contract at league minimum. :hurrah:

Carr Bombed
08-12-2012, 10:54 PM
I am pretty meh on Burress, as I have seen way worse ideas argued on this board. still these are last years stats on production. i will let those who care find the 35 plus year old WRs.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=WIDE_RECEIVER&season=2011&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

I don't think people are expecting the guy to lead the league in receiving yards.. but the fact remains that he would be a upgrade over players on the roster (walter and johnson) and isn't that the point? Upgrading the roster.. I hope to hell that Marin, Jean, and Posey are homeruns and have long and productve careers, but I'd also feel alot more comfortable if we had another vet that actually has a NFL catch to his name.. and a vet that can also play and produce (unlike johnson).

Carr Bombed
08-12-2012, 11:06 PM
Burress had 45 catches on 97 targets. Walter had 39 catches on 59 targets. LOL, ok.

What matters is how productive a guy is based on the amount of chances he gets. Efficiency is what matters in football, not raw stats.



Plaxico was 3rd in targets for the NYJ behind Dustin Keller and Santonio Holmes last year, per ESPN (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingTargets/qualified/false/count/41), with 97 targets.

The Jets threw the ball 597 times and completed 310 passes.

Walter was 4th in targets for HOU behind Owen Daniels, Arian Foster, and Jacoby Jones, per ESPN, with 59 targets.

The Texans threw the ball 467 times and completed 288 passes.

Where do you see that Walter was ever the top WR target for the Texans in 2011? He had less targets than Jacoby Jones. The top target for Texans QBs in 2011 was Owen Daniels by a long shot.

I'll take the guy that catches the ball 66% of the time it is thrown at him and is efficient when he is on the field, over the guy that only catches 47% of the passes thrown his way.

I also don't understand how you can even come to the conclusion that Walter somehow had more chances, or was more of a #1 receiver than Plaxico given the stats that have already been put out in front of you before this post.

But whatever, let's pick up the guy that has barely worked out for anyone and is begging for a contract at league minimum. :hurrah:

Reading comprehension is needed.

I said Walter was the top WR.. as in the leader of his position group with Johnson out or banged up most of the year. The fact that he was only targeted 59 times under those circumstances is appauling and proves my point... the fact that burress was targeted as much as he was also proves my point. One player is getting open and creating opportunities to receive the ball and the other is not. So again.. it doesnt matter if Kevin caught 100% of the passes thrown his way.. he isnt creating enough opportunities and getting open enough.

Texn4life
08-12-2012, 11:12 PM
Reading comprehension is needed.

I said Walter was the top WR.. as in the leader of his position group with Johnson out or banged up most of the year. The fact that he was only targeted 59 times under those circumstances is appauling and proves my point... the fact that burress was targeted as much as he was also proves my point. One player is getting open and creating opportunities to receive the ball and the other is not. So again.. it doesnt matter if Kevin caught 100% of the passes thrown his way.. he isnt creating enough opportunities and getting open enough.

Not only that, but you also have to factor in who is throwing him the ball. Targets don't mean anything. If you have an inaccurate QB like Sanchez its a flawed statistic.

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 11:19 PM
Reading comprehension is needed.

I said Walter was the top WR.. as in the leader of his position group with Johnson out or banged up most of the year. The fact that he was only targeted 59 times under those circumstances is appauling and proves my point... the fact that burress was targeted as much as he was also proves my point. One player is getting open and creating opportunities to receive the ball and the other is not. So again.. it doesnt matter if Kevin caught 100% of the passes thrown his way.. he isnt creating enough opportunities and getting open enough.

It doesn't make a difference if he is the top WR on the depth chart or not. What matters is efficiency. Every NFL offense is not run the same and the top WR on the depth chart is often not the top target on the team throughout a season. This cannot get any easier for you to understand. I have broken it down for you in several different ways, with several different sites all showing you the same thing.

The fact that you think that Plaxico is getting open more shows you are not watching or are not comprehending what you are watching. Plaxico did not get open nearly enough for the Jets and he was not resigned, accordingly. Where is his contract again? Why hasn't anyone picked him up if he is creating so many opportunities and getting open so often?

So again.. it doesnt matter if Kevin caught 100% of the passes thrown his way.. he isnt creating enough opportunities and getting open enough.

Where do you get off saying this?

39 catches vs 45 catches with less than 60% of the targets.

Common sense is needed.

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 11:29 PM
Not only that, but you also have to factor in who is throwing him the ball. Targets don't mean anything. If you have an inaccurate QB like Sanchez its a flawed statistic.

Plaxico Burress in 2008: 35 catches on 66 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2007: 70 catches on 141 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2006: 63 catches on 124 targets.

This is not the first time this has happened with Plaxico. It's just worse now than ever, as you would expect from an aging receiver.

Keep trying guys. :spin:

Texn4life
08-12-2012, 11:34 PM
Plaxico Burress in 2008: 35 catches on 66 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2007: 70 catches on 141 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2006: 63 catches on 124 targets.

This is not the first time this has happened with Plaxico. It's just worse now than ever, as you would expect from an aging receiver.

Keep trying guys. :spin:

Larry Johnson also had more yards in a season than Emmitt Smith ever had. Does that mean he's a better player than him? The stats you pulled up show that Plax played with a young and still sometimes erratic Eli. You need to step your game up son. That targets stat means nothing. Catchable balls is a much better stat. A guy can get a target when the QB throws the ball away.

Corrosion
08-12-2012, 11:37 PM
Plaxico Burress in 2008: 35 catches on 66 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2007: 70 catches on 141 targets.

Plaxico Burress in 2006: 63 catches on 124 targets.

This is not the first time this has happened with Plaxico. It's just worse now than ever, as you would expect from an aging receiver.

Keep trying guys. :spin:

Can you locate these statistics for both AJ and KW for comparisons sake ??I know both are at the top of the league in completion percentage on targets balls. Not sure that Plaxico would compare favorably ....


With the way Keshawn Martin has shown thus far .... Reciever may not be a real worry spot.

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 11:38 PM
Larry Johnson also had more yards in a season than Emmitt Smith ever had. Does that mean he's a better player than him? The stats you pulled up show that Plax played with a young and still sometimes erratic Eli. You need to step your game up son. That targets stat means nothing. Catchable balls is a much better stat. A guy can get a target when the QB throws the ball away.

Walter played with Yates for a good portion of the season. What's your point?

Excuses, excuses.

Let me know when Plax finally signs with an NFL football team and then we will revisit this at the end of the year.

Texn4life
08-12-2012, 11:45 PM
Walter played with Yates for a good portion of the season. What's your point?

Excuses, excuses.

Let me know when Plax finally signs with an NFL football team and then we will revisit this at the end of the year.

My point is Yates is a more accurate QB. Sanchez is terribly inaccurate. Eli is incredibly erratic. If a QB gets a hurry and throws a ball to a receiver and it hits the ground then its a target. You're bringing flawed statistics to the table. I watched every snap of the jets last year. Was Plax great? No. But he gave them some good play. Sanchez was terrible last year and he'll never be good. The guy can't read a defense. You place Plax with an accurate QB and I guarantee that statistic is different. Step your game up son!

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 11:47 PM
Can you locate these statistics for both AJ and KW for comparisons sake ??I know both are at the top of the league in completion percentage on targets balls. Not sure that Plaxico would compare favorably ....


With the way Keshawn Martin has shown thus far .... Reciever may not be a real worry spot.

Andre Johnson in 2008: 115 catches on 170 targets.

Andre Johnson in 2007: 60 catches on 86 targets.

Andre Johnson in 2006: 103 catches on 166 targets.


Kevin Walter in 2008: 60 catches on 95 targets.

Kevin Walter in 2007: 65 catches on 106 targets.

Kevin Walter in 2006: 17 catches on 21 targets. This was his first year with the Texans and he played sparingly, as I am sure we all remember.

Lets put the 2009 stats out there to show 3 seasons with a fair sample size.

Kevin Walter in 2009: 53 catches on 70 targets.

TexansSeminole
08-12-2012, 11:50 PM
My point is Yates is a more accurate QB. Sanchez is terribly inaccurate. Eli is incredibly erratic. If a QB gets a hurry and throws a ball to a receiver and it hits the ground then its a target. You're bringing flawed statistics to the table. I watched every snap of the jets last year. Was Plax great? No. But he gave them some good play. Sanchez was terrible last year and he'll never be good. The guy can't read a defense. You place Plax with an accurate QB and I guarantee that statistic is different. Step your game up son!

While I agree that Sanchez is not a good QB, we will have to agree to disagree about Plax at this point of his career. His game was declining even before he shot himself.

It seems rather simple to see when watching him and when researching him, but you are obviously entitled to your opinion.

You should also go back to the 2006, 2007, 2008 New York Giant seasons and you will see that Eli every other receiver on the team caught passes at a higher rate per target than Plaxico. I don't feel like posting it all here at this time.

Going to bed. Wake me up when Plaxico has a job again.

Carr Bombed
08-12-2012, 11:57 PM
It doesn't make a difference if he is the top WR on the depth chart or not. What matters is efficiency. Every NFL offense is not run the same and the top WR on the depth chart is often not the top target on the team throughout a season. This cannot get any easier for you to understand. I have broken it down for you in several different ways, with several different sites all showing you the same thing.

Actually you haven't broken anything down... all you've done is make excuses for Kevin Walter which now includes that it's the offenses fault that he doesn't get more targets :rolleyes: Funny how back in the late 90's I remember the same OC killing it with Ed McCaffrey and Rod Smith..

The fact that you think that Plaxico is getting open more shows you are not watching or are not comprehending what you are watching. Plaxico did not get open nearly enough for the Jets and he was not resigned, accordingly. Where is his contract again? Why hasn't anyone picked him up if he is creating so many opportunities and getting open so often?

No the fact that you think that Plaxico is not getting open more shows that you are not comprehending your own stats. Here's a hint.. If a guy is targeted almost twice as much as another player... I think it's safe to assume that said player is getting open more.


Where do you get off saying this?

39 catches vs 45 catches with less than 60% of the targets.

Common sense is needed.

Easy, I get off saying that because it's the truth. I don't really care if Walter catches ever pass thrown his way. When he's only averaging about two receptions per game he isn't getting it done and can seriously be upgraded. Last I checked we don't run a wish bone offense.

And here's how bad your stat argument is. According to you, Walter is a better player than Brandon Lloyd.. who like Burress was also in the 40 percentile of reception rates.

Look I like Kevin Walter and appreciate his run blocking... really do. But the fact is, he's not a very good #2 WR and can easily be upgraded. Last I checked he has WR listed next to his name and his main job is to get open and catch passes. If all we want him to do is run block then we might as well make Casey a WR, because I'm sure he can even get open more often.

drs23
08-12-2012, 11:58 PM
You don't have to believe me so by all means believe the ESPN reporter. Guys like Plax don't play 10 plus years with a piss poor work ethic though. (

Once more, where does the bolded come from? He was in the joint for two seasons.

Walter played with Yates for a good portion of the season. What's your point?

Excuses, excuses.

Let me know when Plax finally signs with an NFL football team and then we will revisit this at the end of the year.

Me too... :corrosion:

Visited the Pats today. Haven't heard a word about a contract. Yet...

Texn4life
08-13-2012, 12:05 AM
Once more, where does the bolded come from? He was in the joint for two seasons.



Me too... :corrosion:

Visited the Pats today. Haven't heard a word about a contract. Yet...

Plaxico has played 10 years in the league. What are you talking about?

infantrycak
08-13-2012, 12:05 AM
Can you locate these statistics for both AJ and KW for comparisons sake ??I know both are at the top of the league in completion percentage on targets balls. Not sure that Plaxico would compare favorably ....

Over the time period provided AJ is 66% completions on targets, KW is 64% and Plax is 51%.

TexansSeminole
08-13-2012, 12:10 AM
And here's how bad your stat argument is. According to you, Walter is a better player than Brandon Lloyd.. who like Burress was also in the 40 percentile of reception rates.

This is my last response I will give before I get to bed. Brandon Lloyd is one of the worst WRs in terms of this statistic, so nice choice of WR to use as a comparison. I would argue that Brandon Lloyd is HIGHLY overrated. He had one year in which he had gaudy statistics when he played for the gimmicky Broncos. He had 77 catches on 150 targets. That's not very efficient.

The point is that alot of guys can put up big numbers when they are thrown the ball that many times. Football is about efficiency, you don't get to throw the ball until you score. I will keep saying that until you finally get it, hopefully that is sometime this year.

Carr Bombed
08-13-2012, 12:13 AM
Here's a stat for all the stat jockeys.. (was just listed on ESPN) Burress was top 10 in the NFL in 3 catagories..

Red zone targets
Red zone receptions (hmm I guess he catches it when it really matters)
And
Red zone TDs

Quick can somebody please tell me where Walter ranked in those catagories last year? But it's okay, I mean it's not like we historically have had issues in the red zone or anything.

Carr Bombed
08-13-2012, 12:16 AM
This is my last response I will give before I get to bed. Brandon Lloyd is one of the worst WRs in terms of this statistic, so nice choice of WR to use as a comparison. I would argue that Brandon Lloyd is HIGHLY overrated. He had one year in which he had gaudy statistics when he played for the gimmicky Broncos. He had 77 catches on 150 targets. That's not very efficient.

The point is that alot of guys can put up big numbers when they are thrown the ball that many times. Football is about efficiency, you don't get to throw the ball until you score. I will keep saying that until you finally get it, hopefully that is sometime this year.

Lol so now Kevin Walter is > than Brandon Lloyd?

Texn4life
08-13-2012, 12:18 AM
Here's a stat for all the stat jockeys.. (was just listed on ESPN) Burress was top 10 in the NFL in 3 catagories..

Red zone targets
Red zone receptions (hmm I guess he catches it when it really matters)
And
Red zone TDs

Quick can somebody please tell me where Walter ranked in those catagories last year? But it's okay, I mean it's not like we have historically had issues in the red zone or anything.

Dude what are you doing bringing logic into this debate?

Texn4life
08-13-2012, 12:23 AM
This is honestly stupid regarding targets. Some receivers get short quick passes, screens, and hitches while others get a lot of targets downfield. Plax has always been the type of receiver who gets a lot of targets downfield. So if a receiver gets a bunch of screens thrown his way and has a higher percentage he's better? Its a dumb argument to make.

ObsiWan
08-13-2012, 12:26 AM
The clincher for me is that the guys who had him and saw him all of last season, the Jets, let him walk.

That, IMHO, is a loud, clear, unarguable message. No team lets a valued piece of their offense walk. Especially one who is, by some accounts I've seen in this thread, was "productive" in the scoring zone and is willing to sign - again, if you believe the rumors - is willing to sign for league minimum.

And when you look at the Jets' depth chart at WR you see Santonio Holmes and a bunch of whodats. So if Burress is still "all that" why didn't the Jets re-sign him? ...especially at league min??
:thinking:

Rey
08-13-2012, 12:28 AM
This is my last response I will give before I get to bed. Brandon Lloyd is one of the worst WRs in terms of this statistic, so nice choice of WR to use as a comparison. I would argue that Brandon Lloyd is HIGHLY overrated. He had one year in which he had gaudy statistics when he played for the gimmicky Broncos. He had 77 catches on 150 targets. That's not very efficient.

The point is that alot of guys can put up big numbers when they are thrown the ball that many times. Football is about efficiency, you don't get to throw the ball until you score. I will keep saying that until you finally get it, hopefully that is sometime this year.

I don't get your point.

Actually I don't understand the whole targets vs. Catches argument when it pertains to judging wr's. Actually it's a little silly

If we use that stat then Steve Johnson, Pierre garÁon and Dwayne bowe are all about the same caliber of wr as Calvin Johnson.

Take it a step further and Andre and Kevin Walter are basically on the same level.

Targets and receptions has as much and in some cases more to do with the qb and style of offense being run as the receiver.

If a qb is not good and constantly forces the ball to a guy in bad coverage or overthrows a guy or throws a picks when he's trying to hit a guy am I supposed to believe that is a negative on the received because he was targeted and didn't get a reception? That's asinine.

infantrycak
08-13-2012, 12:29 AM
...especially at league min??
:thinking:

That league minimum would be at half the salary cap price of league minimum.

Carr Bombed
08-13-2012, 12:34 AM
The clincher for me is that the guys who had him and saw him all of last season, the Jets, let him walk.

That, IMHO, is a loud, clear, unarguable message. No team lets a valued piece of their offense walk. Especially one who is, by some accounts I've seen in this thread, was "productive" in the scoring zone and is willing to sign - again, if you believe the rumors - is willing to sign for league minimum.

And when you look at the Jets' depth chart at WR you see Santonio Holmes and a bunch of whodats. So if Burress is still "all that" why didn't the Jets re-sign him? ...especially at league min??
:thinking:

Most likely baggage (nobody can say he wasn't productive on the field), but at the league min non gauranteed contract, I'd be willing to kick the tires. I think this team is built where it can absorb a nut, unlike NY who has a entire team full of nuts.. including a nut head coach.

Corrosion
08-13-2012, 12:39 AM
Andre Johnson in 2008: 115 catches on 170 targets.

Andre Johnson in 2007: 60 catches on 86 targets.

Andre Johnson in 2006: 103 catches on 166 targets.


Kevin Walter in 2008: 60 catches on 95 targets.

Kevin Walter in 2007: 65 catches on 106 targets.

Kevin Walter in 2006: 17 catches on 21 targets. This was his first year with the Texans and he played sparingly, as I am sure we all remember.

Lets put the 2009 stats out there to show 3 seasons with a fair sample size.

Kevin Walter in 2009: 53 catches on 70 targets.

Comparing those percentages , I have to question if he's a fit for what the Texans want out of a reciever ....
Walter as a Texan has caught two out ofevery three passes targeted at him ..... 66.78%

AJ better than three out of four with 75.7% in the years you listed.

Plaxico is ~50 without doing the math over the three year stretch sample size.

Rey
08-13-2012, 12:39 AM
The clincher for me is that the guys who had him and saw him all of last season, the Jets, let him walk.

That, IMHO, is a loud, clear, unarguable message. No team lets a valued piece of their offense walk. Especially one who is, by some accounts I've seen in this thread, was "productive" in the scoring zone and is willing to sign - again, if you believe the rumors - is willing to sign for league minimum.

And when you look at the Jets' depth chart at WR you see Santonio Holmes and a bunch of whodats. So if Burress is still "all that" why didn't the Jets re-sign him? ...especially at league min??
:thinking:

I'll never understand this logic.

You are basing your thoughts off of what the jets are doing?

The packers had Vonta leach before we did, but they let him go for nothing and we got him. Wade wasn't retained by his former team. Sean Cody wasn't retained by his former team. Bradie James wasn't retained by his former team. The bengals didn't think j Jo was worth what we paid him. The bears didn't think manning was worth what we paid him. Forsett was not retained by his former team. Moran Norris wasnt retained by his former team.





I'm not pro plaxico, but some of the takes in this thread are ridiculous.

Personally I wouldn't sign him because I dont think he's better than what we have anywhere besides the redone and if we're going to start throwing jump balls to a wr In The endzone id rather it be Aj.

Texn4life
08-13-2012, 12:49 AM
The Jets made a decision in the offseason to get younger. Not retaining Plax, LT, and some other guys had more to do with them building a positive future. The Jets failure in the passing game had everything to do with Sanchez.

ObsiWan
08-13-2012, 12:52 AM
Most likely baggage (nobody can say he wasn't productive on the field), but at the league min non gauranteed contract, I'd be willing to kick the tires. I think this team is built where it can absorb a nut, unlike NY who has a entire team full of nuts.. including a nut head coach.

Think about what you just told us....

Burress was too much - had too much baggage - for an "entire team full of nuts... including a nut head coach" to hold onto
...at league minimum...

Now some salary guru will have to tell me what league minimum is for a 10-yr vet at #2 WR. As Infantry hinted, that $$$ value might not be all that cheap.

Texn4life
08-13-2012, 12:57 AM
Think about what you just told us....

Burress was too much - had too much baggage - for an "entire team full of nuts... including a nut head coach" to hold onto
...at league minimum...

Now some salary guru will have to tell me what league minimum is for a 10-yr vet at #2 WR. As Infantry hinted, that $$$ value might not be all that cheap.

I've heard specific details about the problems in the locker room. Plax wasn't an issue at all. The problem was Santonio. It bothers me to see him get a bad rap when it wasn't the case.

ObsiWan
08-13-2012, 01:35 AM
I'll never understand this logic.

You are basing your thoughts off of what the jets are doing?

The packers had Vonta leach before we did, but they let him go for nothing and we got him. Wade wasn't retained by his former team. Sean Cody wasn't retained by his former team. Bradie James wasn't retained by his former team. The bengals didn't think j Jo was worth what we paid him. The bears didn't think manning was worth what we paid him. Forsett was not retained by his former team. Moran Norris wasnt retained by his former team.

I'm not pro plaxico, but some of the takes in this thread are ridiculous.

Personally I wouldn't sign him because I dont think he's better than what we have anywhere besides the redone and if we're going to start throwing jump balls to a wr In The endzone id rather it be Aj.

In this case, yes.

Edit (my apologies... I over-explained; this is the bottom line)

...neither of us want to see P.B. in a Texans' uni. We just have different reasons. I think he's trouble. You think - and I agree - we should develop the youngsters and make better use of A.J. in the redzone.

thunderkyss
08-13-2012, 05:15 AM
Obi I'm sure he was talking about Wade, our starting left guard & as far as the Jets go, they might not have wanted to pay Burress what he was asking after one solid season. Probably the same reason he is still on the market. I'm sure at his age he knows this may be his last contract & want to get it right.

As far as comparing Plax to KDub, c'Mon. Plax will get attention KDub doesn't get when AJ is out. As a number two it's probably a wash but we need a playmaker to hedge our bets if the kids don't work out. KDub has never been able to be that guy despite several opportunities.

Remember when Kubiak featured Chris Brown in the offense because we didn't have anyone else? In my mind that's similar to featuring Jacoby at receiver he knows Walter isn't that guy.

Playoffs
08-13-2012, 07:32 AM
Belichick obviously doesn't know what he's doing. :kitten:

Adam Schefter of ESPN reported on Sunday that receiver Plaxico Burress would be working out with the Patriots.

Adam Schefter of ESPN now reports that, in the wake of the Sunday workout, the Patriots donít plan to sign Plaxico.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/13/pats-arent-expected-to-sign-plaxico/

Corrosion
08-13-2012, 08:28 AM
Over the time period provided AJ is 66% completions on targets, KW is 64% and Plax is 51%.


Walter as a Texan has caught two out ofevery three passes targeted at him ..... 66.78%

AJ better than three out of four with 75.7% in the years you listed.

Plaxico is ~50 without doing the math over the three year stretch sample size.

Dont be selling #80 short .... when I did the math I had to do it a second time just to make sure I wasnt crazy.

TexansSeminole
08-13-2012, 09:52 AM
Belichick obviously doesn't know what he's doing. :kitten:


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/13/pats-arent-expected-to-sign-plaxico/

Didn't the Patriots sign Chad Johnson last year? How did that work out? The Patriots organization does make mistakes too. Regardless, they are simply working him out to see what he has to offer. We will wait to see if he signs.

Edit: Sorry, misread your post. Seems we may agree.

In regards to the catch rate statistic, that is just one statistic when rating receivers. It is not the be all end all. The point about him being a downfield receiver and therefore having a lower catch rate is valid. The point is that he is 35 years old now and he is no longer an efficient receiver in that role. You can go to that website I initially linked and view his other stats, they are below average for an NFL receiver.

Rey made a good point about him being a red zone target for us. We have AJ for that and we rarely do throw the fade to him. I would like to see that change. Who is going to defend the decision to toss it up to Plax with AJ on the field? Especially when it doesn't work.

If we lose AJ and Plax is still available, then I would consider it. Until then, it is a waste IMO.

mussop
08-13-2012, 10:26 AM
Didn't the Patriots sign Chad Johnson last year? How did that work out? The Patriots organization does make mistakes too. Regardless, they are simply working him out to see what he has to offer. We will wait to see if he signs.

Edit: Sorry, misread your post. Seems we may agree.

In regards to the catch rate statistic, that is just one statistic when rating receivers. It is not the be all end all. The point about him being a downfield receiver and therefore having a lower catch rate is valid. The point is that he is 35 years old now and he is no longer an efficient receiver in that role. You can go to that website I initially linked and view his other stats, they are below average for an NFL receiver.

Rey made a good point about him being a red zone target for us. We have AJ for that and we rarely do throw the fade to him. I would like to see that change. Who is going to defend the decision to toss it up to Plax with AJ on the field? Especially when it doesn't work.

If we lose AJ and Plax is still available, then I would consider it. Until then, it is a waste IMO.

Can't believe we aren't bringing him in considering our poor red zone history, AJ's current health questions and the overall lack of experience at the WR position

Carr Bombed
08-13-2012, 10:46 AM
Belichick obviously doesn't know what he's doing. :kitten:


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/13/pats-arent-expected-to-sign-plaxico/

He does know what he's doing.. it's called planing ahead. They reported on the radio earlier that the Pats never intended to sign him (they actually have a good vet receiving core now), but they still wanted to work him out incase someone goes down. Now if one of their receivers goes down with a injury during the preseason they can just bring him in, because they already know what type of shape he's in and they've already touched base with him. It's not a bad move

dc_txtech
08-13-2012, 11:49 AM
35 is not real old for a WR on a one year deal. Nobody is asking this guy to anchor a spot for 5 years.. just one. I guess when T.O. and Driver were pulling down 1,000 yard seasons at that age they were trash too huh.

Maybe you're right and Plaxico would be a good addition to the team (I disagree but that's your opinion). But to argue that 35 isn't old for a WR is just crazy. TO is an exception, Donald Driver was 34 when he had his last 1000 yard season, the next season he dropped down to 565 yards.

From 2001 to 2011 only 6 receivers have topped 1000 yards at age 35+

Jimmy Smith
Tim Brown
Rod Smith
Terrell Owens
Joey Galloway
Derrick Mason

http://www.footballnation.com/content/is-randy-moss-too-old/15495/2/

Here is a brief list of some guys who haven't produced a 1000 yard season at age 35+


Marvin Harrison
Torry Holt
Hines Ward
Muhsin Mohammad
Chad Johnson
Laverneus Coles
Randy Moss
Joe Horn
Art Monk
Andre Reed
Steve Largent
Michael Irvin
Andre Rison

For every Jerry Rice or Cris Carter there are hundreds of guys whose careers fizzle out or their bodies give out on them long before they turn 35. Doesn't mean it's not possible just highly unlikely.

Carr Bombed
08-13-2012, 12:47 PM
Im not looking for the guy to be a 1000 yard receiver.. Im looking for production (basically what he did past year) At 35 he can still do that. Im looking for a vet who can be a stop gap safety net. I would do back flips if he could do what he did last season.

dc_txtech
08-13-2012, 01:17 PM
Im not looking for the guy to be a 1000 yard receiver.. Im looking for production (basically what he did past year) At 35 he can still do that. Im looking for a vet who can be a stop gap safety net. I would do back flips if he could do what he did last season.

Well chances are he is going to regress as he continues to age. I think it's more likely that Kevin Walter will get back to his 2010 numbers with a healthy Matt Schaub and his 2010 numbers look an awful lot like Plaxico's season last year, statistically speaking.

So why pay more money to bring in an old WR with a long history of being a locker room issue to put up the same stats as a guy who knows the system, is a good locker room guy, has great hands, and is a great blocker to boot. I'm not saying KW is an all world receiver, I just think he gets a bad rap on these boards and Plaxico is not as big an upgrade as you might suggest.

KW isn't going anywhere. AJ, Posey, and Martin certainly aren't going anywhere, and I wouldn't give up on Lestar for a one year Plaxico rental. Factor in that Holiday is making a push to make this team and there is just no room for Burress.

SteveSlaton20
08-13-2012, 07:26 PM
No thanks. Plax is older than Andre and not as good as Walter. Why would we want him taking snaps from our young receivers that simply need experience. We have talent, they just need to snaps.

OK, I understand not wanting Plaxico, but not better than Kevin Walter? Holy sh*t dude.

Plaxico is 10X the red zone threat KW is, even at his age right now. And last I checked, we had around 45% in the RZ. Plax would make that at least a 70% in the RZ, even if he isn't getting all the TDs.

Texecutioner
08-13-2012, 07:51 PM
I've heard specific details about the problems in the locker room. Plax wasn't an issue at all. The problem was Santonio. It bothers me to see him get a bad rap when it wasn't the case.

Exactly Texn4life.

Plex has been a model player since going to jail, and I for one am glad to see the guy at least trying to do everything right this time around unlike his tenure on the Steelers and the Giants. The guy is still full of size and I watched him make several nice grabs last season. He still can be a very good RZ threat and could move the chains on 3rd down by shielding his body to defenders. I simply cannot understand why the Texans wouldn't be interested.

I read that the Pats have brought him in though. That's my 2nd favorite team, so I'll be pretty happy if they sign him.

Rudyball
08-14-2012, 04:48 PM
At the 10 yr vet min, yes, even if we only use him in the red zone. Plax, AJ and LJ on the line means a mismatch for most teams. And for a team that needs red zone help it is a no brainer to me.

Texecutioner
08-14-2012, 05:08 PM
In this case, yes.

Edit (my apologies... I over-explained; this is the bottom line)

...neither of us want to see P.B. in a Texans' uni. We just have different reasons. I think he's trouble. You think - and I agree - we should develop the youngsters and make better use of A.J. in the redzone.

What has Plex done since coming out of jail to suggest that he is trouble?? Please explain.

ubecool454
08-15-2012, 10:01 AM
I'd sign him quick. The gun deal is not a big deal in texas since we can have a permit to carry ..lol He has two felony possessions for the firearm in NYC so as a felon he won't be carrying anyway.

Vinnie
08-15-2012, 10:11 AM
This is all mental HJ's guys. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. /endthread

Playoffs
08-15-2012, 11:05 AM
Alan Burge ‏@AlanBurge
No, the Texans don't need to sign Ocho or Plaxico

TexansSeminole
03-03-2013, 10:02 AM
Let me know when Plax finally signs with an NFL football team and then we will revisit this at the end of the year.

Remember this goofy debate?

Plaxico: 3 receptions, 7 targets, 42 yards and 1 TD.

Walter: 41 receptions, 68 targets, 518 yards and 1 TD.

Walter more effective than Plaxico? How crazy of a prediction.

Texn4life
03-03-2013, 12:03 PM
Remember this goofy debate?

Plaxico: 3 receptions, 7 targets, 42 yards and 1 TD.

Walter: 41 receptions, 68 targets, 518 yards and 1 TD.

Walter more effective than Plaxico? How crazy of a prediction.

Don't mean to pick a nit, but Walter did have 2 TDs this year. Don't know why anyone would really compare stats between the 2 this year. Plax was only active for 4 games this year, and when he was he was barely on the field. He's done as a player I believe where Walter will at least find a role as a 3rd or 4th receiver somewhere in the league most likely.

I don't want either player seeing significant snaps as a Texan in 2013.

thunderkyss
03-03-2013, 12:58 PM
... Walter will at least find a role as a 3rd or 4th receiver somewhere in the league most likely.


Without the Texans, I don't think Walter is playing in the NFL. I can't see him as an upgrade over anyone unless he is put in as a smallish TE.

TexansSeminole
03-03-2013, 04:01 PM
Don't mean to pick a nit, but Walter did have 2 TDs this year. Don't know why anyone would really compare stats between the 2 this year. Plax was only active for 4 games this year, and when he was he was barely on the field. He's done as a player I believe where Walter will at least find a role as a 3rd or 4th receiver somewhere in the league most likely.

I don't want either player seeing significant snaps as a Texan in 2013.

Being active is part of being a football player, nobody picked him up until late November. The point was that Walter was more effective. I, and others, took alot of heat for formulating that prediction before the season.

Texn4life
03-03-2013, 05:16 PM
Without the Texans, I don't think Walter is playing in the NFL. I can't see him as an upgrade over anyone unless he is put in as a smallish TE.

Very possible, but I still think Walter can play a role as a 3rd or 4th receiver in limited snaps. Just my opinion on that one. I'm not as down on him as some others, but I've wanted to replace him as our second option going on 3 years now. I highly doubt he'll be a Texan when we start training camp.

imatexan
03-03-2013, 10:18 PM
Why not go after Cribbs?

We could use a new return man.

El Tejano
03-04-2013, 08:17 AM
Why not go after Cribbs?

We could use a new return man.

My thoughts exactly!

Ever see him run a reverse also?

ObsiWan
03-05-2013, 11:11 PM
Why not go after Cribbs?

We could use a new return man.

I think that's a fine idea but (1) how much would he cost us and (2) is the Browns' braintrust really goofy enough to let him walk??

tru80texan
03-06-2013, 12:05 AM
Why not go after Cribbs?

We could use a new return man.

Do some still believe that it's the return man that is the problem???
Jacoby leaves= All Pro returner
Trindon Holliday leaves= breaks multiple returns for TD's

At some point it's no longer the players & just may be the coach IMO.

I think that's a fine idea but (1) how much would he cost us and (2) is the Browns' braintrust really goofy enough to let him walk??

1. Like most players he will probably believe he is worth more then he actually is worth. Especially since he is a returner & so-called wr. The latter description being used very loosely regarding him because he has yet to do anything really worth noting as a wr.

2. If they let Cribbs walk because of his asking price & lack of production at wr then I would believe the Brown's might have finally wised up some. After all, they have 2 young talented wr's in Greg Little & J. Gordon. No need for a high dollar return man.

Needless to say...I would pass on Cribbs the returner because he has yet to prove anything as a wr on a team that at 1 point was desperate for any type of playmaker on offense & he still couldn't produce.

deucetx
03-06-2013, 08:43 AM
Do we really want a player who is only a returner when we have holes and the past two seasons, depth issues? That's taking up a valuable roster slot for a guy who can only return because what he has shown as a receiver leaves much to be desired.

As for Burress, honestly I'm not interested even if I think Walter needs to be replaced. I just see little point in replacing a possession receiver with another possession receiver pass his prime. He isn't going to go out and be that playmaker we need at that spot. This team lacks speed and that really needs to change. Burress wouldn't be the one to do that nor do anything really different at that spot than Walter. Having someone other than AJ that can stretch the field would help loosen coverage underneath as well. We got a glimpse of it with Posey.

bobbeaux
03-06-2013, 01:29 PM
i wish the texans would pickup cb's instead of wr's that are kick returners . . . they'd have a better chance staying on the team . . . ;)

Mr teX
03-06-2013, 01:39 PM
i don't like it..we need a guy that can stretch the field & take the top off the defense..he's not that and hasn't been that guy for some time, if ever.

ObsiWan
03-06-2013, 08:38 PM
i don't like it..we need a guy that can stretch the field & take the top off the defense..he's not that and hasn't been that guy for some time, if ever.

"Stretching the field" has two components. (1) WRs with speed who can catch and (2) a QB with sufficient arm to throw the really deep ball. Does no good to load up on speedy WRs if the QB has a 40-45 yd arm strength limit. Some would argue that Schaub doesn't have the arm strength to make safeties back up deep.

Cribbs has the ability to make guys miss when he catches quick slants and medium range passes.

Regarding why he didn't do that in Cleveland, who were his QBs? Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, Colt McCoy?

Now, having said all that, I'm not in favor of going back into salary cap hell for any one guy. So if the Browns can't find money to keep him, he'll probably be to costly for us too.

HouSportsWriter
03-06-2013, 09:56 PM
Burn this thread with fire!

Reading P.Burress, and Texans is a heart attack waiting to happen.